First Ride: YT's New Long-Travel 29er, the Jeffsy 29 CF Pro Race

Jan 11, 2019 at 8:34
by David Arthur  



The YT Jeffsy needs little introduction. The original launched in 2016 with much hype and surprised a lot of riders, but it has gone on to be well received and helped to expand the German direct-sales company’s appeal into the lucrative trail bike market.

The pace of development in the bike world over recent years has been rapid, and so for 2019 the 150mm-travel Jeffsy 29 has been given a fairly major overhaul to keep abreast of the changing shape and capability of modern mountain bikes, but without losing any of the appeal of the original.

YT Jeffsy 29 CF Pro Race Details

• Intended use: trail / all-mountain
• Wheel size: 29"
• Rear wheel travel: 150mm
• 66º head angle
• Water bottle compatible
• Aluminum and carbon frame options
• Weight: 28.4lb / 12.9kg (CF Pro Race, SM)
• Size: SM - XXL
• Price: $5,699 USD (CF Pro Race)
www.yt-industries.com


YT
The Jeffsy 29 CF Pro Race is priced at $5,699 USD.


Travel remains set at 140mm front and rear on all models except the range-topping CF Pro Race that's pictured above, which gets a boost to 150mm front and rear. A more significant change is geometry that's been stretched out and slackened off, with a size large now getting a 470mm reach. Other numbers include a 66-degree head angle and 77-degree seat angle, along with revised suspension kinematics, internal cable routing, ISCG 05 tabs, space for a bigger water bottle, and a choice of aluminum or carbon fiber frames.

The Jeffsy 29 starts at $2,299 USD and rises to $5,699 for the range-topping 29 CF Pro Race that I got to ride over two days in Portugal. It’s generously equipped: Fox 36 and DPX2 shock and Transfer dropper post, Shimano XTR rear mech and shifter, SRAM Guide RSC brakes, e13 wheels, tires, cassette, crankset, and chain guide, and a Renthal handlebar and stem. All very nice equipment and nothing you’d want to change, save for perhaps some things here or there that boil down to preference.


YT
A bash guard is bolted to the downtube.
YT
Acros sealed bearings should improve durability.


Frame Details

The overall silhouette of the new bike is largely reminiscent of the original, which is no bad thing as it’s a solid looking machine and clearly a YT, and very much a mini-me Capra. It’s available in carbon fiber or aluminum, and there’s still the same Virtual 4 Link suspension, YT's take on a Horst Link design with a Metric shock sandwiched between the downtube and seatstays. Pivot hardware has been updated with custom Acros sealed and covered bearings to provide better durability and protection against the elements, and all the bolts are accessed from the non-driveside so maintenance is much easier.

To improve the stiffness of the frame, the headtube has been bolstered with a boxier shape where it flows into the toptube. YT resisted the lure of internal cable routing with the original Jeffsy but has relented and tucked all the cables inside the frame for the new bike. It’s very neatly done though, with an easy access point under the downtube and neat rubber cable clamps to keep the housing firmly in place and prevent unwanted rattles. I like that attention to detail.


YT
The seattube is shorter to improve standover and accommodate longer dropper posts.
YT
The headtube has been beefed up to improve frame stiffness.


There are now ISCG 05 tabs so you can run a bash guard; you couldn’t on the original. The frame is 1x only, allowing the bottom bracket and main pivot area to be optimized for maximum stiffness, but YT has stuck with a press-fit bottom bracket that I know will upset some people who are hoping threaded shells will take over the world again. There’s frame protection on the downtube which is bolted into place so it won’t peel off, and to protect and dampen the annoying sound of chain slap, the chainstay is generously wrapped with a durable rubber material.

“But does it take a water bottle?” is a pressing question for all new trail and enduro bikes these days (how times have changed). Yes, you can fit a bottle at the bottom of the downtube with a capacity upgrade from 500 to 600ml, so no excuse for running dry. YT has partnered with Fidlock to provide an optional magnetic bottle, but a regular cage and bottle can be used instead.


YT
YT paid plenty of attention to keeping the bike quiet, and it worked.
YT
You can fit this optional Fidlock magnetic bottle but, unlike the old bike, there's enough room on the new Jeffsy to fit a normal bottle, too.



Suspension and Geometry

The Virtual 4 Link remains from the previous Jeffsy, the company's own take on a Horst Link setup. The shock is driven directly by the seatstays with a short link mounted to the seattube to control the motion and provide added stiffness. Where the majority of the range stick with the same 140mm travel front and rear via a 210x50mm shock, the range-topping CF Pro Race model I rode gets 150mm at both ends courtesy of a longer, 55mm-stroke shock. YT has also focused on refining the kinematics and has increased the leverage ratio and anti-squat to provide extra progressiveness and support when pedaling and handling big impacts.

yt

Geometry has been a big area of focus for YT, as it is for any new trail bikes these days. And yet, it's longer, lower and slacker. How did you guess? The five sizes experience an increase in reach with a slacker head angle, steeper seat angle and improved standover. The size large features a 470mm reach, 66-degree head angle, 77-degree seat tube, 1215mm wheelbase, and a shorter 435mm seat tube so longer dropper posts can be fitted. You still have the ability to adjust the geometry by flipping a small chip located where the shock is bolted to the seatstays, which has the effect of adding half a degree to the angles.

Chainstays are size-specific, 435mm on the small and 440mm on the XXL, a trend we’ve seen from a few bike brands and it’s one that makes good sense. Bikes are equipped with 44mm offset forks, another trend that is buzzing through the industry at the moment.






It was a short flight out to the Algarve, Portugal, to see the covers pulled off the new bike and put it through its paces. Sunny, mild, and dry trails in December when it’s freezing cold rain and quagmire trails at home? Yes, please! The terrain provided the ideal place to test the new bike, with mostly natural trails with a few man-made additions running on super tacky dirt with the grippiest rocks I’ve ridden in a long time, and a real variety of fast flowy singletrack to rough rocky chunder. It’s the natural trail bike environment, the sort of place this bike was designed for. And it was a hella lot of fun, too; I can strongly recommend the area for riding if you want a winter escape.

Setting up the bike was a breeze. YT has developed this cool bike stand/jig for getting a rider properly set with sag, handlebar and brake lever angle all taken care off. I followed the recommended settings, which is 30% in the rear shock achieved with 200psi with a 0.4 spacer, and 65psi in the fork with one spacer and the high and low-speed compression set three clicks from fully open. I fiddled with the fork pressure a few times but the settings worked well during the two days of testing.



Climbing

Okay, I’ll admit it, we didn’t do a whole lot of climbing. We had shuttles whisking us to the top of the hills on both days which gave us more time on the descents, but despite this there were still trails that required a reasonable amount of pedaling - they don't just point you straight back down the hill again, but curve and twist through the many hills in this region.


YT


When traversing across and up the hillside you're immediately struck by just how cleanly and efficiently this bike pedals. Okay, it’s not XC bike-rapid but it really shone on the climbs and undulating trails with lots of elevation and speed changes and never felt sluggish or reluctant to point its wheels up the hill. The suspension provides stacks of support at the sag point when you are pedaling, so much so that you can leave the shock open all the time. Not once did I feel compelled to flick the 'Mike Levy Cheater Switch,' and I like that. You can just concentrate on riding the bike and not worrying/forgetting what setting the shock is in.

What the Jeffsy does clearly lack is outright small bump sensitivity compared to some rivals, like the Stumpjumper I rode earlier in the year. To be fair, I didn’t get to ride enough really challenging climbs covered with roots or rocks to really see how the suspension copes with tricky pitches that require suspension to be fairly active and deliver necessary traction to let you up to the top without dabbing or waving the white flag.


YT


The fit of the large-sized bike was perfect for comfortable pedaling, too. The steepened seat angle puts you in commanding position to maximise your speed on pedally trails, and the reach to the handlebar was just right; generous without being overly stretched. It's also clear that the low weight of this spangly top-end build certainly helped in the pedaling and climbing department.



Descending

Oh my God, the YT Jeffsy was crazy fast and so much fun on the descents. It’s a playful and lively bike with plenty of pop so you can get as much airtime as you desire or tuck low racer-style and carry warp speed through corners. The geometry changes are well received, perhaps not the most progressive of the current crop of 29er trail bikes but, for what it’s worth, I found the numbers to hit a good sweet spot for my 5'11" frame.

I was able to move the bike around the trail and through the corners with a good amount of agility present, but when it came to steeper drops I felt comfortable behind the 66-degree head angle and 470mm reach. There are two larger sizes, and with shorter seat tubes than before, there is the option of sizing up if you need.

When it came to dealing with the varied trails we spent our time on, with everything from steep rock slab drops to fast pinball alley-style loamy singletrack through the most spectacular landscape, there is a stack of stability present in how the Jeffsy conducts itself. It feels really composed when ram-raiding through rocky gulleys and smashing into rocks and drifting through beautifully manicured catch berms, yet it’s nimble and agile enough for picking its way through the most annoyingly tight corners. It’s an easy bike to get through the turns, with good weight balance and steering is light and agile enough to let you put the bike where you want it with precision.


YT


The progressive suspension helps to give the Jeffsy its playful character. When it comes to bigger drops, there’s no hint of coming up short on travel or harshly bottoming out; it’s very well controlled. Many an occasion it displayed the sense of a much bigger bike in how calmly it dealt with everything - it would be interesting to see how the shorter travel 140mm Jeffsy compares to this 150mm range-topper. The firm suspension doesn't deliver the magic carpet sort of ride that some bikes do - it does flatten the trail - instead, it's much more engaging and involving with more information feedback. You ride the Jeffsy instead of just hanging onto it.

I had no issues with the build kit on this range-topping bike, although this was only a short introduction. The gears shifted with sweet precision and there’s all the range I needed, the brakes were powerful, and the tires grippy on the strangely tacky dirt and rock features of the local trails. Using the optional Fidlock magnetic bottle takes a little practice to perfect, but it does work well and nobody lost a bottle during two days of riding. I’d like to swap it out for a regular cage and bottle for comparison, though.

The launch of the original Jeffsy 29 was a bold move by the small company, but this category of big-wheeled trail bike has really blossomed in recent years and the changes YT has enacted on this latest version definitely make it a contender. If you want fun and fast, the first impressions of the updated Jeffsy show that it clearly delivers. I can’t wait to get a longer, more in-depth ride on the new bike on my own trails.


238 Comments

  • + 168
 Sounds like PB enjoyed the trails we built. Stoked to see them being used for a bike launch.
  • + 10
 Heading to Portugal in May. Stoked to check out what you guys have to offer!
  • + 5
 maybe I missed where they are located at the Algarve - could you point us to where one can find them? Are they on trailforks? Smile
  • - 31
flag oscartheballer (Jan 15, 2019 at 4:42) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah, I don't quite understand how you can call a bike "crazy fast." Thanks for your hard work.
  • + 8
 They were most excellent and I will be back to explore the rest of the trail network!
  • + 2
 I'm secretly hoping everyone around here asks me to bring them to my home-country to hit the trails - fingers crossed a bunch of us make our way down the second-half of the year Big Grin
  • + 8
 Hey man i rode in Madeira and then in Algarve. Loved both places. In fact i plan on buying a property in Portugal that's how much i love your country.
  • + 1
 @arweatherby: i'm heading to canada in july - can't wait to see what you guys have to offer Big Grin hahahaha - only messing - i'm sure the mecca of all mtb would be awesome - if you're heading to portugal i've an email i send to friends with some info about the place - let me know if you want me to share the info with ya !
  • + 1
 @Luis-Sc: absolutely, I'd take any and all information you have to offer.
  • + 2
 The bike looks like it would be standard issue on the Startrek Enterprise.
  • + 1
 @arweatherby: Get over to Madeira too!
  • + 68
 so the free bike on the free holiday / launch was easy to pedal to the top of trail you were shuttled most the way to. respect, i'll order one now
  • + 62
 Since the readers of Pink bike know best, why don't you all put your money together and design the ultimate bike. Think about it, with all the knowledge and expertise on here you could create a bike that pedals up hills like an XC bike, descends like a DH rig, has 29" front and 26" rear, carries 5 water bottles, is handcrafted by angels using only the best materials, and costs the same as a weekly grocery shop. I don't know why the big brands aren't already doing this to be honest.
  • + 2
 Someone already did this. User based feedback steered the design. The name was forgettable though, so I can’t immediately think of it.
  • + 3
 That's not important. What's important is that at 5'11" David is a mountain biking giant.
  • - 2
 I would love to here the conversations about what components to spec.
  • + 3
 @speed10: the IBC bikes which were designed by the users of mtb-news.de and manufactured by alutech
  • + 4
 I'll throw money at any bike that can hold that many water bottles plus at least one banana
  • + 4
 @speed10: Think it was called "The Homer" if I'm not mistaken... www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPc-VEqBPHI
  • + 8
 @rrolly: Since when is 5'11 tall? I'm the same height and I don't consider myself a giant. If there was a joke here, I'm afraid I missed it. Maybe my sarcasm filter is broken today?
  • + 2
 @AlexS1: yep! I knew someone knew what I was talking about.
  • + 1
 @BaeckerX1: yup, you missed it. Back when the PB guys did their shootout everyone was around 5'7".
  • + 0
 Downvote for lack of originality.
  • - 2
 Dont forget the fairy dust and unicorn fart flake paint job. Since its being made by angles and all.
  • + 1
 @speed10: Alutech bikes
  • + 26
 I wonder what the reasoning is for forcing you into more travel on just the top model? I don’t find it particularly desirable as more isn’t necessarily better, especially in this category of bikes.
  • + 12
 It's just the same shock but with a stroke reducer installed. Easy to put or remove to get more or less travel!
  • + 126
 your wealth is directly proportional to how hard you shred, obviously
  • + 32
 @GumptionZA: huh, so that's why people keep calling me dirt poor
  • - 2
 @freebikeur: well it isn't as easy to increase the travel of the fork
  • + 2
 Yeah, seems odd to me.
  • + 1
 I don't get it either. Its daft confusing spec with travel. Make an EVO (or give it some other special designation) version if you want to sell a longer travel version.
  • + 9
 To me it seems like the biggest benefit of the CF Pro Race model is the Fox 36 fork.
  • + 10
 I wish they were all 150mm personally. Hard to please everybody I guess.
  • + 0
 @ninjatarian There is no "forcing". The longest travel version happens to be the most expensive, that's all.

The only bummer would be that it will probably take another while for the new frame to become available in aluminium too. Then again that's understandable and not unique to YT. If I want a silent Shimano freehub now I'll need to buy XTR. It will take another few years for them to sink down to my level (XT/SLX/Zee).
  • - 5
flag Doogie711 (Jan 15, 2019 at 5:27) (Below Threshold)
 @vinay: The new AL frame is available right now depending on where you live.
  • + 11
 @Doogie711: the new AL frame is the old AL frame with a new paintjob
  • + 3
 @mizzter-b: Surely they did by calling it the CF Pro 'RACE' version?
  • + 4
 @Jaiello: depending on your fork, changing travel could be very easy
  • + 0
 @Christopop: Completely agree. I'm intrigued by the bike and would most likely opt for 150 travel front. The CF Pro is a great deal, but having to swap fork right off the bat is a bummer.
  • + 8
 @Jaylynx: you don't have to swap forks - all you have to do is swap airshafts. those are like 40 bucks a piece and anyone who has done a lower leg service can do it.
  • + 1
 @tom666: just buy Capra then... 150 jeffsy and 160 Capra are very, very close..
  • + 1
 @loam-addict: We've got to admit the names are confusing. Back in the days Santa Cruz had a LT (long travel) version of the Blur which had more travel than the standard Blur. It took a really special kind of expert to not understand this. Why an EVO version of the Specialized Stumpjumper has more travel? If it doesn't look like a huge steel gate, it is already an evolution of the Stumpy. Same goes for "Pro Race" here. What kind of professionals does YT imply here and what kind of races? The kind of "pro" and "race" combination where the Capra is overkill but the standard 140mm travel Jeffsy just wouldn't cut it? I would love if they'd dumb this down for us. At least to the point that they don't introduce confusion.

I'm surprised to see though that people can tell right from reading this article that 140mm wouldn't suffice, the Capra would be too much and the 150mm would be ideal. I would think that when I come unstuck with 140mm travel, getting 150mm out of the same bike isn't going to help me much. Haven't tried though. Does anyone here have experience with adding 10mm of travel and does it even make that much of a difference?
  • - 2
 @Jaiello:
@freebikeur: well it isn't as easy to increase the travel of the fork

It is if its a Pike.
  • + 1
 @wowbagger: I know. I like added stiffness of 36 chassis. I also have Push ACS3 kit for 36 that I'd want to use. I assume most people buying this are going to ride it pretty hard. Just seems like an easy choice to put 36 or Lyrik on all models.
  • + 1
 @Jaiello: it is on a Pike
  • + 2
 It makes almost all bike reviews sort of worthless because they almost always test the high-end model, so we have literally no idea how the 140 feels vs the 150, especially on things like big drops and overall progressiveness of the suspension. Kind of dumb, since at least it normally comes down to mostly component spec. We normally know that the higher-end model will shift a little bit better, the suspension be a bit more refined, it'll be a bit lighter...but that overall it will feel the same across models. These are basically 2 different bikes. Even the reviewer notes it.

"Many an occasion it displayed the sense of a much bigger bike in how calmly it dealt with everything - it would be interesting to see how the shorter travel 140mm Jeffsy compares to this 150mm range-topper."
  • + 0
 @BaeckerX1: some suspension designs depend on high end shocks to work well , especially for heavier riders. I bought a Giant a while back after really liking the demo. Turns out, with the lower spec shock the bike had crappy small bump compliance and I still bottomed out harshly all the time.

I'd love to see in depth tests covering both the high and low end specs in a range, so buyers will know whether it's truly just a bit of lighter weight and better brakes and shifting, or whether the low end bike rides qualtatively differently.
  • + 0
 @ondrejaugustin: Capra is sporting 180/180 now on the 27.5 and 170/170 on the 29er... Same here with the jeffsy 27.5 sporting 160/160 while 29er sporting 150/150
  • + 2
 @vinay: alot of people long shocked the Hightower...cool to have options
  • + 23
 Least useful review I've ever read. It's amazing at everything. Get as much air as you could possibly desire. So supportive. Climbs so well. Descends crazy fast. Sounds like a lot of hype. I'd love some better explanations of what it feels like in these situations other than "amazing."
  • + 20
 Given it's a first ride, seems pretty adequate to me. Negatives mentioned in the article: Overly stiff suspension while climbing/under power and will lack traction up super techy climbs. Not super supple off the top. Leans towards descending and does it well for a 150mm trail bike with a 66 deg HTA, but won't completely flatten the trail.
  • - 1
 @tgent: it's all very bias info tho. Lots of euphemisms and vague language. I wish they'd just say it how it is without worrying about their symbiotic relationship with the vendor.
  • + 10
 @Svinyard: You're describing a general problem with the media reviewing stuff from companies that pay their bills...
  • + 1
 @tgent: yup. It's a fair complaint tho and not all outlets pull their punches. I do think PB is getting better tho and doing a bit more of the shootout comparison stuff which is nice.
  • + 4
 Compare it to the offering, Hightower, yeti, or 275 jeff vs bronson,
  • + 1
 Super-unuseful. But “first ride” is supposed to be exactly that. It takes time to find issues. Unless the bike is a complete mess...
  • + 0
 A so-called “review” where the author mentions the press-fit bottom bracket and acts like nothing’s wrong. Why don’t you just call it out for what it is??? Are you afraid of not getting invited to the next Mediterranean paradise trail???

140mm except 150mm for top model. Why?

If your articles avoid real questions and opinions are manufacturer-approved, then what value is it providing to any of your readers?
  • + 3
 It's "amazing" I keep getting invited on press junkets ;-)
  • + 4
 @blackthorne: the thing is, I personally don’t have a problem with press-fit, since never has any issues with it even on bikes I own
  • + 20
 “The YT Jeffsy needs little introduction”...so why did we listen to Christopher Walken reading a bad script for 5mins?!
  • + 5
 Exactly! Shit wasn't it?
  • + 1
 @jaame: Made it through the first line and realised that someone had basically called in a favour. Not a case of the actor reading a script and "immediately falling in love with it"...
  • + 1
 @BenPea: they could have got someone who I actually believe rides bikes, like Vin Diesel or something.
  • + 2
 @jaame: Rick James was unavailable. R.I.P.

He used to shred the Santa Monica hills between pipe sessions.
  • + 2
 It was quite thoughtful, deeps layers.
  • + 4
 Because advertising? Because talking points sell more bikes?
Oh, and no one said you had to watch the ad, but ya did, and here you are, adding to the conversation.
  • - 7
flag jaame (Jan 16, 2019 at 0:14) (Below Threshold)
 @ssteve: That's because I thought it was going to be about bikes. What actually happened was, this guy that was Batman in 1987 sat behind a table and dictated a crappy script for too long, I skipped to the end and saw a couple of frames of the bike. The same frames that were screen grabbed in the article I seem to remember.

I'm on board with the concept of paying a Hollywood actor to push the bike, but in this case it was a boring old dude just talking, and the script wasn't exactly profound.

I would have been more into it if they got a hot chick like that one from San Andreas and Batwatch to do it.
  • + 2
 @jaame: Michael Keaton was Batman (in 1989). You're thinking of de Niro's Russian roulette opponent in The Deer Hunter.
  • - 1
 I was being facetious to point out he's a has been. I guess they couldn't afford The Rock
  • + 18
 A Brief History of MTB Paint Schemes

1980-2000: Red
2001-2012: Blue
2012-2017: Hyper Neon Dance Dance Revolution Max Extreme
2018: Tan
2019: Petrol
  • + 1
 If in doubt, go with F1 colorways. Merc
  • + 1
 the 2012-2017 period was my favorite. sad that its over now and everything is stealth.
  • + 13
 I don't know why we still bother reading this "reviews"; they're all interchangeable across all bikes of a given type (they're like the horoscope). It's only when comparing head to head (as in PB's Field Test) where you can learn something useful (such as X bike is heavier than Y bike; Y bike is snappier than Z bike, and Z bike is cheaper than X bike).
  • + 4
 Sounds like @sixstringsteve needs to start writing more reviews. His reviews of the Spot Rollik and Mayhem are very thorough and include comparisons to other bikes.
  • + 3
 @OvaltineJenkins: I wish I could afford to. I love reviewing bikes.
  • + 8
 Journos need to start boycotting top model only press launches. Demand to ride the range, it will give you a much better impression of the frame itself as well as which build kit gives the best bang for the buck.

Of course a top end bike with top end suspension rides well. Is that great suspension hiding flaws in the frame design that would be exposed by cheaper, less adjustable suspension? The only way to know is to ride the lower spec options.
  • + 1
 I have noticed that with MBUK the past few years. Bike of the year tests are usually in the so called "affordable" range. About three grand. Much better.
  • + 8
 Very very similar geo numbers with the Ibis Ripmo. Other than seat tube length, some measurements are just a few mm difference while some numbers are nearly identical. I'd be very interested to see how one compares to the other.
  • - 23
flag goroncy (Jan 15, 2019 at 4:15) (Below Threshold)
 One is mass produced in China and another is a carefully crafted machine. It might contribute to an "average" quality and consistency of this quality. But to be truthful I've never seen any statistics. Just anecdotal evidence. For sure the CS is different Wink .
  • + 4
 @goroncy: have you actually looked at an Ibis frame? Wouldn’t exactly call it “carefully crafted” They are also mass produced in China.
  • + 6
 YT are made in Taiwan as far as I know. Also I very much doubt Ibis are made in China. Most of the top brands are manufactured in Taiwan and I would guess that includes Ibis.
  • + 0
 @wibblywobbly: Yep. I took a look. YT is by no means a tech company with any sort of deep know how. It's much more a marketing-centric company. Maybe this link will add something to the conversation: www.ibiscycles.com/support/technical_articles/carbon_lab . Ibis frames are by far in every way better build and designed. But expensive.
  • + 13
 @goroncy: but they look shit!
  • + 6
 @goroncy: I have owned two Ibis. Next time you see one, look around where the tubes come together. Look around where the seat tube goes in and around the head tube. They don’t do a good job sanding everything down and prepping for paint. Then they put on crappy paint. For a frame that costs that much I expect better. Not to mention the basically use bondo to cover everything up before paint and make it look nice and smooth.
  • + 13
 @wibblywobbly: owning a YT I would love to agree but your way off the mark given what i've seen of the HD4 and Ripmo frames
  • + 5
 @goroncy: I would love to know where your expertise, regarding the know-how and frame quality of YT, comes from. Do you have any inside information, you are willing to share?
  • + 3
 @goroncy: anecdotes aren't evidence, just anecdotes.
  • + 6
 @wibblywobbly: my ripmo was manufactured in Vietnam, and it looks extremely well made to me.
  • + 0
 Bet the leverage ratio is better on the YT. Wouldn't be hard.
  • + 4
 Agreed since the Ripmo is high in my next bike list. But Jeffsy is more affordable with just as good, if not better, spec and components.
  • + 2
 @Morrrice: I don't own any of the bikes mentioned. But, speaking of know-how, just by having a look at the suspension design of each bike, I'd vote for YT's R&D by far...
The Ibis has a too linear leverage ratio, which tends to provoke a lack of progressiveness at the end of the travel for heavy/aggressive riders. That was the first complain that appears among riders after the Ripmo was released and I'm sorry, but on a bike of this price it's quite of a bummer...
  • + 3
 @goroncy: mine was made in Taiwan mate, been very impressed with both frame quality/details and customer svc. Can’t soeak for Ibis though.
  • + 6
 @gui21st: Considering that pretty much all bikes are marketed at the "aggressive" (and often heavy) rider, i consider it quite refreshing that Ibis makes a bike which allows light and clean riders to use full travel. Highly progressive suspension is all the rage right now because everyone fancies himself an EWS racer, but lots of progression doesn't ride well for a lot of people.
  • + 4
 @goroncy:' Whatever' is my answer to you. It's a bike. For shredding. Not a piece of heirloom jewelry to pass down to your descendants.
  • + 1
 @Ttimer: I disagree. Light suspension is do bikes feel nice and plush in a demo ride or a parking lot. They aren’t for people that actually ride them hard.
  • + 5
 @gui21st: Just add shock volume spacers. You're welcome!
  • + 2
 @daugherd: anecdata... Wink
  • + 2
 @bogey: yeah I don't get why the volume spacers and a bit of extra compression doesn't work for people who need more ramp up? Maybe just more air and less compression??
  • + 5
 People here talk too much. All this talk about a half degree more or less angle or 5mm chainstay difference... Who cares. I’d be happy with 95% of any trail and enduro bike produced nowadays and I bet they all handle great.
Give me any Ibis or any YT and I’ll shred anyone of ‘em.
Oh and yeah I love my Mojo 3. Been riding it 2-1/2 years now and the paint still looks good. :-)
  • - 2
 @Svinyard: More spacers = lower air volume = more heat = more change in suspension response and higher seal friction.
  • + 2
 @jclnv: I wouldn't be worried about the air side because of a small spacer. It's the oil side and a shock with a low oil volume that'd run into a heat issue.
  • + 2
 @goroncy: I'd also like to know where you get this insider information from.
  • + 2
 @jclnv: more air spacers are a lazy way to fix poor design. Stop building bikes for the sole purpose of feeling plush on the shop floor! Even YT is making their bikes less progressive for the weekend warrior.
  • - 1
 @Svinyard: So next time you've done an extended descent, hold your air can. You think that heat is coming from the tiny amount of oil (which is a fixed volume BTW) inside the shocks compression/rebound circuit?
  • + 1
 @jaame: Sticker on my Ripmo says "Made in Vietnam". Probably in the VIP factory, same one that many are now using.

My Ripmo looks like a work of art.
  • + 1
 @Ttimer: I can hear the refreshing thing and I do believe that it fits the needs of specific pilots. Nevertheless I see it as a major drawback for the average rider regarding the purpose of the bike. It also makes things more difficult if you want to run a coil shock without having the bike bottoming out at every compression, even for lighter riders.
  • + 1
 @bogey: Yes, only if you fancy an air shock... And if I were an heavy rider I wouldn't be a big fan of running a high pressure in the positive air chamber combined with a lot volume spacers.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: Yeah that's why the piggyback system works man. It provides additional oil volume and separates things out. So then you get less shock fade and can handle longer descents better. FWIW this is why coil shocks need all this (some moto and bike too). Its not the air they are concerned about but the oil heating up. The additional oil volume helps keep the heat down.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: Svinyard is right. I think you are missing what a shock (damper) actually does.

The fundamental physics of damper is the conversion of kinetic energy to heat through a fluid medium (i.e oil). Yes that 'tiny volume' of oil is creating almost all the heat. No heat = no suspension. The seal friction is pretty minimal.

The fundamental mistake you are making is assuming the temperature of a shock is directly related to how much heat is being generated. The main difference between different types of shocks is their ability to dissipate heat. The issue isn't how much heat is generated it's how it is how effective a shock is at transferring that heat to the surrounding air.

The weak point of air shocks (especially inline) is that the air sleeve surrounds the damping circuit as the shock compresses and insulates it. The oil is heating up the air sleeve as this is the only path to disapate heat. In a coil shocks the damping circuit is inside the threaded shock body and there is a much more direct path to transfer heat outside the shock, thus cooler temps. Piggybacks are great for any type of shock as they provide a much greater surface area for heat transfer, but they make a bigger difference for air shocks.
  • + 0
 @tomcat: I'm not saying there isn't any heat coming from damping circuit, but to deny that air under compression doesn't produce heat is hardly consistent with physics either.

A simple test of pumping up a road bike tire and then holding the valve will prove that to you, and that's only 100 PSI. Now think about 200 to 500 psi multi-second cycles for minutes at a time.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: One could do a long run with someone else. A friend. One using a DHX2 and one using a Float X2. Same damping architecture, different spring. It would be noticed that the air shock was hot at the end of the run, and the coil shock was not.
Repeatedly compressing air generates a lot more heat than repeatedly pushing oil through damping circuits.
  • + 0
 @jaame: Exactly. Seems obvious to me.

I'm not discounting what these guys are saying, it's definitely a factor, but compression of air is the dominant cause.
  • + 4
 @jclnv: wrong. The air can is the not prominent heat source causing the issue. It's an issue with air shocks not because of the air compression but because the air can (and air) around the damper insulates the damper so the heat doesn't dissipate nearly as efficiently as a coil.
  • + 2
 @Svinyard: correct, the damper is doing most of the work and creating a ton of heat. Pushing that much oil continuously through an orifice is a massive heat generator. Even with no air can insulating it, a coil-over can get really hot.
  • + 0
 You know what I really don't know either way so I'm going to forget I ever commented on this nonsense. Merry Christmas.
  • + 3
 When I think about it, the reason I think air shocks get hot is because they do get hot. But I have never thought deeply about the reasons for the heat. Compressing air makes it hot, but decompressing it makes it cold. If the reason for the heat is the oil being pushed through little holes, and the reason for the heat staying there is the insulation provided by the air can, then thanks for opening my eyes. Win or learn.
  • + 8
 YT articles are all the same... half the people really just mad bc they paid 2-3k more for their bike that has a lower spec than YT’s and the other half have no clue what their talking about. Keep killing it YT!
  • + 6
 I don't really understand why they would only give the top model the extra travel, when the only real difference is the stroke of the shock and fork?

Surely spec'ing the same components they already have on the lower models but with the longer stroke shocks wouldn't have even affected the price, so why not give them the extra travel too?

Just seems like an artificial way of putting the top model on a pedestal
  • + 1
 Isn't it partially because the fork specced on the pro race has a slightly shorter axle to crown length than the fork on the lower models? So the geo stays the same, but you end up with more travel.
  • + 2
 @MarcusBrody: Not really, because the geo on the pro race changes anyway (its stated in the geo table).
  • + 3
 Just a way to make you want more the top model... Since the stroke is juste longer, you have 0 benefits of having the shorter stroke shock. If you want to use less travel and have the 150mm, you put a bit more air and you will use only 140 max, if you see what I mean. It's like having 2 cars with the same engine, but one one of them, the there is a limit how far you want push the throttle. And the limitless one is more expensive... It's a marketing strategy and I hate it
  • + 1
 @Uuno: That's somewhat true, but you would compromise suspension performance by forcing the longer stroke shock to sit higher with a lower sag % to preserve dynamic ride height.

To be fair, we are talking about 1.5mm difference in shaft displacement at sag here (30% sag @ 15mm shock stroke 140mm or 16.5mm for 150mm version) so minutia haha.

I am changing my shock on my 2017 Jeffsy to get 160mm (27.5 version) for this exact reason: more margin for error without a real downside.
  • + 1
 I've always thought that aboit 140 bikes with air shocks. You want 140 most of the time, but sometimes you might want 160. First, there isn't much difference between 140 and 160. It's a little over ten percent. Second, why don't people just buy the 160 bike and pump the shock up a bit harder?
  • + 9
 Whats this another long travel 29er review? I admire your bias PB
  • + 3
 well, there will be only more and more of them and the demand is increasing. Expect 275s coming only in Small and Medium by 2020. As I said numoerous times, 275 was a scam and should have never been made a mainstream thing.
  • + 24
 @WAKIdesigns: Or maybe in 2021 we'll have the second coming of 275s. The reviews will say how awesome they are because the geo was crap the first time around. Sound familiar?
  • + 6
 @WAKIdesigns: I do feel a tad robbed, and the industry (inc PB) just seem to want to brush it as quietly as possible under the wheels of 29ers
  • + 2
 I'd call it more a Mid Travel 29er. 140mm rear end denotes that. Hell, I'd call anything 130 to 150mm in the rear a Mid Travel 29er now days.

Times have changed. The 27.5 and Alu bikes are still incoming. Sure they will be visited when they are available.

So, my question is does the bike come with a shuttle or do you have to provide your own? Some more uphill trail riding and level stuff would have been good to know about but that is YT's doing. I'm sure PB will provide the goods on a long term review.
  • + 2
 @Bob12051968: Yes! Exactly like 26"! Oh wait..
  • + 0
 @usmbc-co-uk: I am pretty sure everyone pushes 29ers in, I am personally fine with that because I like them and I can ride them just like I ride smaller wheels. They have some nuanced advantages like thanks to increased gyroscopic effect of the wheels, you get more increase in stability as the speed goes up. In this way you can keep the geo a bit tighter and steeper, especially the CS length, which gives you great handling at low speeds. With good geo, like Enduro 29 you can still change directions and pick lines easily. You can also style it up in the air on them as long as your expectations don't involve cashrolls, shoulder tap table tops etc, and you better be able to do that to have those expectations in the first place. General worries about "playfulness" of 29ers seem to come from people who can barely do an X-up. No problem to pop E29 or manual it either. I see nothing that my 275 bike can do that E29 couldn't. On the contrary. I see some things that a stupid long 275" bike like Geometron can't do as well as a shorter E29. If I wanted an actual "playful" park bike I'd get a SS fully like ticket and upfork it to 120-140mm. It would make for SS-Country. It is coming.
But honestly, I could not give much damn. My next bike will surely be 150-170 29er. I will buy a used E29 or Yeti 150.
  • + 3
 I know...review the 27.5's...
  • + 2
 @gnarterrorist: using travel only is not the best here. You can have 150 enduring rig, comparable with 170 bikes, that one would call long travel 29, and you can 150 trail bike, comparable with 130 bikes, that you wouldn't call long travel. Geo is much more important.
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: I hate 29ers. Back to my cave now....
  • + 1
 So the top model Pro Race version is considered a long travel 29er. Would the "regular" YT Jeffsy at also be considered that? The Ripmo has 140mm of travel and people call it a trail bike. So...YT Jeffsy is a trail bike but the YT Jeffsy Pro Race is a long-travel 29er due to 10mm of more travel? So confusing!
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: I love my 27.5, makes me smile every time I ride. Is that a scam?
  • + 0
 @mkotowski1: It’s like saying I love stiffness of my boost hub. If only there were 27” bikes aside of 275 and 29,, a comment like yours would pop up too. There’s been a dude deeeight, over here who rode 27,5 and 29” bikes since 2006 or so. He said around 2014 that he just rode his 2001 26” bike and it sucked. So 26” wheels suck. According to him 2014 275 bike was better. As if it was all down to wheel size. All I am telling you is that if you had everything you have right now on your bike, as good suspension, as good wheels and tyres, same geo (bb drop would be 0-15mm smaller, that’s it) with 26” wheels you’d like it just as much.
  • - 4
flag downcountry (Jan 15, 2019 at 16:08) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: You lack a fundamental understanding of physics. the industries 29er geo is ill informed about what constitutes proper handling characteristics to take advantage of and minimize the limitations of 29er wheels.
  • + 2
 Hahahah @Soilsledding: that was the most awake as fuk geo comment ever. Do you even design bikes? Or just read interviews with Chris Porter
  • + 7
 The one bike got sent to Pinkbike, so is it safe to assume they're sold out?
  • + 2
 A used demo model will be available in 4 months' time.
  • + 6
 So the Jeffsy is supposed to be a trail bike....but for the media tests you did shuttles? Makes perfect sense.
  • + 2
 Exellent point
  • + 4
 Sounds like a fun bike, but this just seems like the classic review where the downhill abilities of a 150mm/66° bike are at least slightly exaggerated. 2 days of shuttle runs might have had something to do with it?
  • + 2
 Any good bike 150mm / 66° I wouldnt say the DH abilities are lacking.
  • + 2
 If you Take a look at just 5 year old FR/DH bikes: Yes indeed that had about 65-66° HA... And we were able to ride them fast too
  • + 2
 Wonder if the Al versions would take an Angle-set.
  • + 1
 I tried to keep up with a (disclaimer: significantly younger) guy on a Jeffsy and a Fox 34 on two shuttle days in Finale. He had no issues I could see. I was on my 26er with 65 HA and 160/170 F/R squish. You do the math.
  • + 2
 @powderturns: they AL Jeffsy can indeed take angleset, the carbon cannot (IS headset).
  • + 1
 @NotNamed: More like 15 years than 5. I know, time flies; where did all those years go Wink

E.g. a 2013 Kona Process had a 64 deg HA, 2013 Trek Session 63.6 deg HA, 2014 Nomad 65 deg HA which are still acceptable today.

Looks like we settled some years ago on 62-64 DH, 65-66 Enduro/AM, 66-67 Trail and it hasn't really been changing as much as people believe.

Reach and SA are a different story though.
  • + 5
 Why does it say "Live Uncaged" on the chainstay...right above the long cage derailleur? Am I missing something?
  • + 2
 @woofer2609 Derailler ripped by Evil rock at the worst moment? Sounds like a premonition. Better to grab a spare one.
  • + 3
 I’ve had my Jeffsy CF Pro Race for about a year, so pleased with it. Does everything I’ve asked if it and put it through the ringer so I haven’t even looked at my Reign enduro since my purchase.
  • + 4
 how can i take this as a reference point, if i want to buy a jeffsy 29er? this has more travel and a stiffer -more enduro fork than the rest of the range. pretty deceiving...
  • + 5
 If the reviewer called this bike a monster truck I'd agree with you, but he uses words like playful and poppy. I don't think the lower spec'd bike would less playful and poppy with 10mm less travel and a Pike up front. I think we can assume the Pro build kit would be very similar to the Pro Race.
  • + 4
 Is it always necessary to point out that a 140mm rig climbs well, but not like an XC bike?
  • + 3
 The new Jeffsey climbed like a billygoat when hung on the chair of the lift rack...and descended like every 150mm+ bike does. end of review.
  • + 2
 @davidarthur Had you ridden the first gen Jeffsy? A couple other first ride reviews I've seen says this gen both climbs and descends better, but isn't quite as playful feeling. Would you agree?
  • + 1
 Just wondering why are the geo numbers different in each model.
For example the Jeffsy CF Pro Race has 450mm reach in size M, the CF Comp 454mm also in size M and the AL version has only 424mm reach?! Why?
I think this is a big mistake, if this is real. What if somebody an AL version? This person'll get a newly hyped bike, with old timer geo?
  • + 5
 I think the AL version is last year's frame, hopefully that will be updated soon.
  • + 5
 The AL still has the old frame... God knows why& it sucks because you get teased in buying the more expensive carbon model- Hope they bring out a new alloy frame?

The slacker HA (160mm fork) shortens the reach a bit- still the same frame Smile
  • + 2
 New AL version will be soon ready. Different reach numbers are due different fork travel.
  • + 0
 @NotNamed: ok I got this AL version issue.

But still don't get whats up, with the carbon version, ok I do. So the CF comp works with 140mm travel f&r, the CF ProRace uses 150mm f&r. The two frames are the same, but the specs are different. So the CF Comp uses shorter shock.

A 29" trail full suss with 140mm travel is really capeable and YT says the Jeffsy is for trail/am. But we know the lads, they're going to put a 160mm fork on it and bigger shock (or buy ProRace version) and when this comes to life, the bike is no more will be a trail bike but enduro.

This is good in one way, cuz' the bike is more tuneable but I think this has the cons in other way, cuz' the bike loses its original funcionality. Maybe.
  • + 2
 @milan89ers: The shock has an Aluminium spacer inside... Just deinstall it and you have the same travel as the Pro Version.
Its the same in the Stumpjumper Evo
  • + 1
 @milan89ers: Eye to eye on the shock is the same, so the static geometry numbers do not change from the carbon base models to Pro Race. What changes it the +10mm fork travel which increases axle to crown, slackens the HTA and STA bike about 0.5 degrees, raises BB slightly and reduces reach as the bars come closer to the centre line.
  • + 1
 @gramboh: I don't think the shocks size the same. Just look at the YT's page.
The CF Comp has 140/140 travel while the CF PR has 150/150 and there are the geo chart what says difference btw the two models.

I never sad if this'd be a problem, just interesting.
  • + 1
 @milan89ers: The rear shocks are the same eye to eye length simply with longer stroke. The Pro Race is 210x55 and the others are 210x50, it's simply that the 140mm version shock is travel limited by a spacer on the shock shaft. On the 27 version it's the same story 230x65 vs 230x60 shock. Believe me, I have seen it with my own eyes on my Jeffsy 27.

The forks are 10mm more travel on the Pro Race hence the geo changes as I explained above. Most forks you can change the air shaft for ~$40ish to get the extra 10mm.
  • + 2
 @gramboh: thanks, finally got it
cheers
  • + 2
 @gramboh: Only issue here tho is that the Fox 34 29er top out at 140mm. I think the pike goes up to 150mm tho. So to bump up travel you'd need the Race or Race Pro (already at 150mm)
  • + 1
 They should just put a 1x12 on the tues and water bottle mount fix the seat angle and have an extra fork with purchase one with the duel crown and single crown and dropper post option and we should be all set Wink
  • + 0
 Great article with real insight about the bike but also the trails and places that WE had the chance to show YT industries and all the riders and professionals that tested JEFFSY. Thank you for the good times here in Algarve, Portugal with the WERIDE team. www.weride.pt
  • + 2
 Can PB please talk about bikes that have 32 and 34mm forks? I just don't get all the DH and slack stuff on here. there are no chair lifts where I ride.
  • + 2
 PB does do more trail/enduro bike reviews, but go read the XC bike reviews. This is not the bike for you.
  • + 1
 Only the most expensive Pro Race Jeffsy model comes with a 36. The rest are 34s. So, pinkbike is talking about a bike with a 34mm fork in this case. They do mention wondering what the 140mm version of the bike would ride like, and I'm sure we'll get a proper review in due time. This is just a first-ride review of the top model only.
  • + 2
 34 to 36 is like 200g weight penalty, on a 28-30lbs bike who cares, worth it for the stiffness but mostly for the superior damper on the 36 platform (GRIP or GRIP2).

32mm is flexy XC stuff and makes no sense unless you are racing XC and shaving every gram to improve climbing times.

In summary: move to BC.
  • + 1
 Geo similar to the ibis ripmo and evil offering but complete bikes starting at $3500 and 27.5/29 options? Now that truly is checking all the boxes.
  • + 2
 "it was a hella lot of fun" This looks like the outcome of an argument with an editor.


Sounds hella fun there though
  • + 1
 DAMN that geometry though! I really like that little bit right under the seat tube, I'm a bit new to bikes so that part looks pretty innovative.
  • + 1
 Welcome to the best sport! Geometry is not the aesthetic shape of the bike. It is the measurements of headangle, wheelbase, reach ect.
  • + 1
 Ripmo vs Jeffsey
65.9°,66°
1220,1222wb
435,435cs
471,470reach

Pretty identical except for 150mm travel compared to 145 on ripmo
  • + 8
 160mm front travel on the Ripmo and DW link.
  • + 1
 How annoying could be, when you change your tyre and the decal not align :-)
  • + 2
 Wonder if you can fit 27.5 plus tires ?
  • + 1
 Why doesn't YT sell just frames? Not sure why more bike manufacturers don't do that.
  • + 1
 Most companies do swllxfeame only.
  • + 0
 This in fancy and all, but what's missing is... More cowbell man! I gotta fever, and the only prescription, is more cowbell!!
  • + 1
 If that's what they call the jeffsy (A long travel 29er) Then WTF is the Capra
  • + 3
 Superenduro...?
  • + 8
 A killer sled that can also go uphill and can take a dual crown fork if you like.
  • + 3
 Perfection is boring...
  • + 1
 Except there is no aluminium option for this frame...yet. Sounds promising nonetheless.
  • + 0
 Yeah the Alu model is still the same geo as last years model
  • + 1
 I am itching to read a review of the Capra Al Comp with the ally frame and more heavy enduro build.
  • + 2
 Hmmmmm may have jumped the gun on my Capra 29 at 170 F/R travel....
  • + 1
 @stoo61 I don't feel you jumped the gun. Capra is still Capra and is a monster ready to plow the nearest rock garden to you. I have the 180mm 27.5" and love it.
  • + 1
 @Topabajo: 1st World Problems haha Moved back to Scotland from BC...woe is me! Alba gu braaaattthh!!!
  • + 2
 @stoo61: You lucky b*stard... haha! Enjoy your move (sometimes envy people who can move to a place like this and keep the family income).
  • + 0
 1st pic looks like it needs a biohazard sign with all that mold! Is that a roll of toilet paper near the rear wheel? Very poor choice of scenery imo...
  • - 2
 Don't be fooled with "longer" geo numbers as bigger reach suggests. Top tube is even shorter than previous generation of Jeffsy in the same size.

It is the consequence of steeper seat angle, but still..
  • + 4
 Reach is just one of the factors. Chainstay length plus reach and head angle all play a role. Wheelbase was 1178mm, now it's 1215mm.
  • + 3
 Reach is start measurement probably, not the Top tube...
  • + 7
 No one is "fooling" anyone, is there? To get a rough idea of how much room you have when standing on the pedals, you look at reach and stack. For seated pedaling, (effective/horizontal) top tube and (effective) seat tube angle may become interesting. These are different measurements and applicable to different riding positions.

And apparently the reach and stack also depend on wheelsize. Didn't expect that. I read this review (link below) a few days ago about the 27.5" model and reach was slightly longer. I would have expected the head tube angle to be slacker on the smaller wheel size model but apparently it is the other way around for this bike.

enduro-mtb.com/en/yt-jeffsy-2019
  • + 1
 @pulDag Who cares about top tube length? Roadies? It's not the 90's anymore.

Reach is what matters on a mountain bike because it determines your standing position, you know, the one you take when you're riding down the trail.

The steep seat angle you mention is what will help you on seated climbs if you're so worried about your fire road grinding.

And as others mentioned, the bike is significantly longer overall (i.e. in the wheelbase, which matters for handling unlike HTT).
  • + 1
 @bananowy: Top tube length still matters in determining your seated position. You know, the one you're in most of the time.
  • + 1
 @Bob12051968: That definitely depends on the rider, where he/she rides, for how long and most importantly what the rider cares for. I personally go out for shorter riders and spend little of my riding time seated. And the sections I care about most I typically stand up because I feel the bike comes alive like that.

That said, considering all the rage about steep seat tube angles and dropper posts that allow you to raise the seat with the flick of a switch, I acknowledge that seated pedaling is very important for more than a few. So yeah, different people and all that. Just remember that what applies to you doesn't go for everyone.
  • + 1
 @vinay: Point taken. I used to think reach was by far the most important number, but I've come back to looking at TTL mostly because I'm between L and XL frame sizes, and sized up. I loved the geo descending but sometimes felt too stretched up during long days of riding. Slamming the saddle forward (effectively shortening the top tube and steepening the seat tube) helped out a lot. Now when I look at geo charts, a long reach doesn't scare so long as the TTL is short enough.
  • + 1
 @Bob12051968: Well yeah, I get that. I wouldn't say reach and TTL can be viewed in isolation but considering most people caring for a seated pedaling at least a considerable part of their riding time, seem to do so for climbing in which case you'll want to shift to the front anyway. So that would relate to a relatively forwards saddle position realized by a steep (effective) seat tube angle which in turn for a given reach shortens the TTL. So all is good. One thing to look out for is that with the current trend for large wheels (27.5 or larger) paired with fat tires (should at least accept proper 2.5" or these days it seems) implies the seattube needs to give way. Especially for bikes with rear suspension (because the rear wheel moves forwards at some point) but also for some hardtails with short chainstays yet still designed to accept big tires (like Stanton). It is either bent, shifted forwards of the bb or both. So for that effective top tube length, the actual seatpost is under a relatively slack angle. So if you raise the saddle higher than the top of the headtube (at which height the effective top tube length is horizontally measured) your seated position will feel longer again.

So yeah, frame geometry is by no means simple. Even the numbers won't tell you the whole story. I'm personally always interested in the difference between standover and bb height as that basically implies how much room you've got over the bike. My hardtail is pretty much standard geometry except for the seattube. I decided 400mm should be sufficient even if I want to get a 400mm seatpost (with 100mm min insertion) up to XC height. Looks funny, but good enough should I ever desire to do so. But I wanted to have the top tube so low that the back of my knee would be above the top tube even with the cranks level. I thought that would give me the freedom to ride (and most specifically, corner) the way I like to. I measured, calculated and decided the top of the top tube should meet the seattube at 320mm above the center of the bb, measured along the seattube. That's what I asked for, that's what I got and it worked out exactly the way I wanted. But yeah, what I meant to point out is that sometimes you really need to do your own measurements and calculations to decide what sizes you're after.
  • + 2
 @Bob12051968: I did acknowledge this about seated position in my post. Still not the number one priority on a long-ish travel bike.

Besides, your point makes sense as opposed to @pulDag's which I was responding to. What you're saying is that long reach works best with a steep STA to a) get the rider's weight when seated forward for climbing and b) keep the TTL in check so you're not too stretched when seated. It's true and bike manufacturers clearly take this into account seeing how most new long reach bikes have steep STAs.

The other guy insinuated that we're somehow being 'lied to' and the long reach bikes are in fact too short for his liking because the steep STA shortens the TT. I got the impression that he thinks riders are kind of stupid and buy long reach bikes in hope of getting a more stretched seated position. Which is obviously false as the actual reasons are standing position and overall handling improvement.
  • + 2
 @bananowy: I probably could have said this better by saying that my bike never feels too long when I'm in the attack position, but it sometimes feels too long when seated. I'm seriously considering a new Jeffsy or Guerilla Gravity bike. Both bikes have reach that is comparable to my Canyon Spectral, but the top tubes are about 30mm shorter due to their steeper seat angles. Cheers!
  • + 2
 @Bob12051968: yeah, 100%. Long reach without a steep STA will probably feel stretched. Both the GG and Jeffsy seem to get it spot on. Cheers!
  • - 1
 Amazing how PB goes to a bike launch and proceeds to ride and review.... only the 29er. Even though there is also a 27.5.
  • + 14
 They only had the 29er bike available to ride. I would liked to have jumped on the 27 too
  • + 0
 @davidarthur: did you try the new Capra al comp 29? The one with the fox float x2 and burly build?
  • + 2
 YT pushed them to review the 29er as that is the frame that received the most updates, the 27.5 frame has changed but not as much, and the Alu frame is the same as last years model still...
  • + 1
 Okay, thanks!
  • + 1
 These paint schemes!
  • - 3
 Climbing and Descending. Wow, great man. How about a review for riding mostly in the saddle on flat-ish ground that most of us who don't live near mountains spend our time doing?
  • + 2
 Gravel bike.
  • + 0
 Son... ya"ll need a roadbike or a horse!
  • + 1
 Not THAT flat. We have a lot of limestone rock here - very bumpy, technical sometimes, and high speed.
  • + 1
 @JohanG: Evil Following or a trained goat ... no need to thank me!
  • - 1
 Memba when YT was a good deal for a bike? Now they are the same as the others....
  • + 0
 dfijasd
  • - 2
 YAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNNNN!
  • - 1
 Bring back the TOTEM
  • + 5
 And while you're at it, the Girvin Flex Stem... mmmmm. Plush.
  • + 5
 @bigtim: pair that with a Thudbuster for me please!
  • + 5
 Totem coil was the best fork I have ever ridden, I would love a totem with a new charger damper! 3
  • + 1
 @bigtim: ya need to step it up to the Softride coil sprung stem, bruh
  • + 2
 @PNdubRider: With an Alsop Softride Beam to sit upon -hahahahaha
  • + 0
 @PNdubRider: keep it real, we're not all dentists...
  • - 2
 This bike fails to be a Sentinel. tl;dr
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