Podcast: Chris Ball Talks Discovery, ESO and the Future of World Cup Racing

 The problem is that the UCI makes these decisions and they couldn't care less about the damage they are doing as long as they get paid...

 The way its going we'll be seeing world cup downhill races at night in Qatar in five years (fake mud and all)

 I've been long saying... This is an operation to stop MTB popularity.. we are not on the best interest at all of agenda 2030... Chris just got rich selling his sport through his company... I really wished to be wrong but all this nonsense just points out in this direction...

 @millsr4: sounds like most governing bodies that dictate our daily lives.

 @deepcovedave: The way its going, we'll be seeing WCI races held in Saudi Arabia near active war zones with missiles landing 20 kilometers away from the race.

 @scott-townes: would watch

 This appears to be how pro sports works in the streaming era. The costs of growing the audience appear to outweigh the benefits of squeezing the faithful. Here in Seattle watching hockey games for the home team is $80/month - and some games are blacked out. There's no amount of money you can pay to see them all. It's almost impossible to discover that we even have a hockey team, let alone watch them play. But the games are packed because hockey fans exist in sufficient numbers already.
Discovery has probably figured out that cycling grows organically via methods other than being discovered as a sport to watch. First you participate, then maybe you become a sports fan. Not the other way around. They have a lot of smart people whose career depend on getting this right. Consider that this is a terrible option for us perhaps, but it's the best option for them.

 The racers in our sport love to race because they love to race and ride bicycles. That's why so many have stuck around for so long even with such low pay. I think the first race is going to be extremely telling of the rest of the season. If we realize halfway through the season that its garbage then I would imagine these racers are going to start looking for other means of racing (ex: national series, crankworx, US Open, etc.)

 I have been around long enough to have learned that everything discovery touches dies. UCI is the cancer

 @ATXZJ: could Discovery be like chemo on the UCI cancer though? Like, we end up with something better in five years, as UCI survivors?

I like it. Except the riders at the top right goddamn now are so great...they'll be the eyebrows that fall out or whatever...friendly fire, martyrs for the cause

 The UCI and Discovery don’t care about downhill. The UCI sold the rights to cover its events to discovery and DH came as part of the package. They don’t care and they don’t want it. The best thing that could happen to downhill if someone who actually cares broke away and started its own series away from the UCI.

 @Mtmw: We may not like it but this makes sense. Truth hurts sometimes.

 @deepcovedave: Sprinklers and Giant Fans to fake wind on the open sections up top, before they get into the fake woods.

 Dictatorship’s bound to fall.
We are the life of the sport.
All the bustard that milking the spectators, sport enthusiast, and riders trying to convert it to another money making machines can get lost.
Red Bull did well by making viewing approachable to all for free, with the best commentators ever.

 @PauRexs: yep, normalise having no justifiable reason to go outside your "15 minute" city

 @Mtmw: the people you speak of are almost always proven to not be that smart. There are very few folks with intelligence in c suites. The positions are mostly filled through nepotism of one form or another

 @smaptyjohnson: Ball'n'them should be commended for starting the EWS, that took some...balls. Good. But they seem to have ignored, or at least heavily discounted, the contribution of the bike industry marketing machine(s) in their "success." Not surprising, that's probably what I'd do too if I were one of these guys, but man...Enduro racing really always seemed like some supply side stuff to me--the product has always sucked. I love wheeled racing and I love bikes, but enduro just isn't it. I've tried. Maybe that's just me, but I doubt it.

CEOs are sociopaths. Tall white handsome sociopaths. They're good salesmen and that nepotism you mention rules all. It's all a big bell curve of dingdongs and dipshits, brainiacs and dummies...that's completely ignored by confirmation bias and mediocre dudes who lucked out.

 @MuddyFoxCourierComp: and they want to restringe ppl access to all forest they can... for whatever stupid reason they'll find... So yeah they suborned/influenced UCI (easy) and give Ball company a lot of money to be the bespoken face. And all this is compartmentalized so Ball doesn't know... Discovery just persuading the money and doing it's job of cutting the fan base... Which kids are going to pay to see the series? Everyone on this sport must start quite young to be an enthusiastic... They don't want the MTB Hero's/Gods RB was creating to raise more youngsters.. the one's "they" are interested in...

 @PauRexs: hey dude so like... I'm actually the main guy in the whole thing, whatever thing you think is the thing, and I'm just checking in to tell you you're totally correct and boom you solved it so go ahead and take the weekend off

 @owl-X: That'd be great but in reality disco and uci are the sears/k-mart superstore of trash.

 Chris Ball can Dick Pound for all I care. Not watching anything on Discovery, will watch whatever is the competing race platform.

 @sharpy182: To be fair, people who paid for Trailforks (even the 50% off early adopters) got O+

 Like a fox in the hen house.

 @5afety3rd:

The guy successfully organizes a worldwide race series that's actually reminiscent of how most of us ride and runs it for a decade and then we bitch at him when he's ready to sell it? Sounds like he's living the dream to me.

He has no obligation to the PB audience to try to run the thing how we want (with our non-existent experience in running a global race series) until we allow him to retire.

Enduro coverage isn't great right now, anyways. What if this results in better coverage and riders eventually getting paid more? I'll absolutley pony up during this trial year to watch it and we'll just see how it goes.

 @WasatchEnduro: the guy's main claim to fame is enduro. Blows my mind how that's somehow a reason he should be involved in more!

It's like when Grandma ends up raising the kids because she sucked at raising her own. "Oh, you blew it? Here's more!"

 @WasatchEnduro: Yeah its great that he's done that, but he's gone and sold out the DH with it, which was working well and great to watch.

 @WasatchEnduro: living what dream? Profiting off the backs of others? Lying every press conference? Only out for himself? Enduro coverage has always sucked, but got worse not better over the years. The more mainstream MTB gets, the less appeal it has in participation IMO. I didn’t pick golf, or baseball, I picked the misfits. Now I’m not so sure this crap is even worth the shit we’re all fed on this site.

 @pmhobson: def one of the early adopters. Also because it allows me to retain my Spot insurance early adoption status. So being O+ or whatever it is, saves me thousands in medical injury bills a year. I suppose that’s stupid though. I also get HBO included with my phone bill. Here’s an idea. How about all PB Trailforks users get discovery+ for free with membership so we can continue to bitch about how bad the coverage and rule changes are.

 @5afety3rd: you mean Pound Dick...?

 @owl-X: he also was DH technical delegate

 @headshot: that’s not their name

 @WasatchEnduro: the guy created a discipline that is inherently impossible to broadcast to live viewers, and is now taking over DH broadcasts. I think it's fair to be pretty suspicious

 That's the first time I laughed all day. Thank you for that.

 @robito: but the pb audience want the riders to be paid more. You can’t have one without the other

 @chrismac70: you think the UCI or red bull paid athletes directly for being filmed while racing? Hahaha. Neither will discovery. Sponsors pay, not race organizers, not television companies, those get paid.

 @5afety3rd: very true. And sponsors pay more if they get more exposure. More exposure means non mountain bike fans watching the race on their tv after the ball game. Not on an obscure website

 @chrismac70: mountain biking will never have that broad appeal long term. It’s geographically and demographically out of touch for most people to relate. There’s a reason race car drivers and skateboarders have a higher potential for earning. Less and less people have cable tv as time goes on, further making discovery more likely to decrease viewers.

 www.youtube.com/watch?v=kklKWbem_2A for those who want to see it in real life.... Warner called him out.

 what are you subscribed to for watching MotoGP, FIS Alpine skiing, Formula 1, AMA Supercross ?

 @t-rick: I haven't subscribed, but it would be the motoGP app, Peacock and ESPN+ app for some races.

 There is more to life than watching TV. It could be a good thing. Six more rides a year instead of looking at the TV on race day.

 @jaame: that makes no sense. Watch the races when eating dinner at night

 @MuddyFoxCourierComp: Exactly. I guess the big question is will there still be a replay available? Most races are on when I want to ride so I watch with my dinner in the evening. Certainly not missing a day on the trails to watch TV even if it is WCDH!

 @lancet-muffler: this.

 @jaame: I would DVR (record) them and watch them after the Miss's went to bed during the week. In the past, Formula 1 is on at 6:30am here, over around 8-8:30. Would be on the trails by 9am. I'm kinda over F1 these days. No testing means whomever invisioned their car best is best any given season. One or two teams hit it, no passing, no tight racing. It's a horrible practice and is ungodly boring. I DVR it and fast forward most of it. 1:20 minutes watched in 15-20.

 Ironically* I reckon Chris Ball has one of the best Earthed segments ever in Earthed 4 - Death or Glory!

I kinda miss the excitement of that DVD dropping through the letterbox to see a bit of the year's racing action in retrospect...

*might not actually be ironic

 I would be willing to pay for GCN+ depending on who is commentating. If the current YouTube presenters are going to be blabbing along for the entire broadcast no thanks.

 @lloyd506: I’d pay money NOT to hear them in that case.

 Misspent Summers is going to be a big deal in the coming years I think.

 @inside-plus: misspent summers is brilliant stuff

 Discovery+ streaming. From what's been put out there so far. Yeah, I don't know if I have time to listen to 1.5 hours of an executives babble about how great he thinks his company is.

 GCN Plus is theoretically available worldwide and will have the coverage. From the sounds of things that's kind of what they're pushing people to in general as it's all the racing, accessible in all countries.

 @snomaster - help.globalcyclingnetwork.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360015571479-United-States-of-America

@CleanZine is correct.

 @CleanZine: I just checked it out and from what the site says, I can subscribe from the US and consume in various formats. Is $50/year a heavy cost? No. However, at a glance on that website, the overwhelming amount of content they have doesn't interest me. Yet to determine my moves if any on it.

 @bman33: Historically, being GCN, the content has been road, track, and CX based. This is the first year of mountain biking for them. Give it a chance, and maybe, just maybe, take a peek at some of the road stuff. As a "cyclist" you may just find some of the stuff interesting.

 @snomaster Missed this on 18th Jan? Or saw it, and didn't understand?

www.pinkbike.com/news/uci-and-warner-bros-discovery-announce-viewing-options-and-new-world-series-branding-for-2023-world-cups.html

 @handynzl: Appreciate the postive vibes and I still may try it for a year. That said, I am in my later 40's, been riding/racing since 80's if you count my kid BMX days and MTB since early 90's. Road biking just does close to zero for me. Track can be cool for a few minutes, but I don't see me following it or changing my schedule to watch any events. I do follow other events that aren't pure DH in cycling, but 9/10 times it doesn't involve skinny tires.

 @bman33: Not a problem, mate. At least you've replied with a considered opinion and not just smashed the downvote.

 @bman33:
This for me, also.

While I don't begrudge the cost in of itself (provided it is decent coverage of each MTB discipline), it feels like we're subsidising the vast amount of content that is of no interest to the average MTB enthusiast.

At least if Discovery+ was available here, there might be something else on there that we want to watch.

Edited:
Also, broadcast via GCN is doing next to nothing to "give MTB a wider audience". It is far from a mainstream streaming provider. Maybe, you'll pick up a couple of road riders, but that will mean squat in real terms.

 @bman33: We have black out or restricted zones in the US for a lot programming if it's available from more then one source. I tried to watch MXdN from a UK site. Paid for the subscription, the minimum, watched a few things live the weekends before, no issues, nothing I watched airs here. Irish/UK Superbike, Truck road racing, etc.. Day of the race, got the preview show, then the gate was about to drop, black screen in white letters,"This program is geo-restricted". It was on BeIN Sports, the TV channel, which wasn't available in my area. Nothing aired here at all. I'm pretty sure Discovery won't let other websites slide. RedBull has carried the World Champs for about the entire world, but we haven't been able to see it on Redbull here in forever because of that site nobody has ever heard of and it was like $20 a month? I think if you did pay to watch it, I didn't think you even got the English version with Rob. Could be wrong about Rob, idk

 Sir, this is a pinkbike

 Eurosport is part of many basic cable TV packages in Europe. Discovery airs many other sports and they will advertise their new assets to all their users. There are WAY more road biking fans than DH fans. A sizable number of them will get GCN subscriptions for the road biking and now gain access to DH as well.

In short, plenty of people who never bothered to look at Redbull TV will be exposed to DH coverage. So this certainly brings in opportunity to grow the sport's viewership.
Will that opportunity be seized? And if so, will it actually benefit the sport? That is to be seen.

 @ak-77: sure but making it available to folk that can already afford to pay for these packages isnt very ‘inclusive’. Even my standard Virgin package just dropped Eurosport recently, so now you’d have to buy the ‘sport’ package at over £50 a month to get it. Not to mention the 1:1 ratio of adverts to actual coverage on Eurosport and the awful commentators (Carlton Kirby).

 @ak-77: I get what you're saying, but you're still limiting who can actually watch the 'product'. Surely, it makes more sense, especially in the early years, to try and get as many people watching the sport as possible. Once audience numbers are up and investment/sponsors are on board, then you can think about monetising it.

It seems that Discovery/ESO/UCI don't want to put their own hands in their pockets to try and build the sport, they want the fans the cover the cost and ultimately the risk...

 You, and a lot of people on PB, are missing something quite significant. Discovery are currently trying to build themselves as a brand for Sports broadcasting. They are buying up the rights to a wide breadth of sports from Mtb, to climbing and even tennis. So sticking mtb behind a paywall isn't the long term value proposition for them, it is a short term way to reduce costs. Longer term it looks like they want to build a big sports channel that they can sell as an entire package. Id rather mtb not be behind a paywall but I mean the idea of a sport channel with more than just your average PL football does sound pretty good.

 @northernwig: I agree, Discovery is in this game to make money. My point wasn't that this is necessarily good for DH fans, especially the ones that don't have too much to spend. It is more that this has the potential to bring more eyes of people who have cash to spend. With that comes advertising money, and hopefully that may partially trickle down to the sport and the riders. We'll have to see.

 @ak-77: of course they are. So were rb. What’s your point. You make it sound as if rb were some charitable foundation doing it as an act of kindness

 @chrismac70: I didn't say anything about Redbull's intentions. A side effect of their business model was that DH fans got to watch the races for free. My point is, that even though the switch to Discovery's model may lose some viewers because they can't or won't pay for it, there is a real possibility that it will also bring in more viewers that would not have gone to RBTV.
I'm not an expert in marketing, I don't have a clue how this will turn out, but I am not as pessimistic as the commenters here that predict this will be the death of Downhill.

 yes.

 100%

 Why wouldn’t they? As long as it’s not some kind of coverage they plan on doing themselves they would have no reason to ban others from doing it.

‘Surrounding coverage’ such as blogs, websites, pre/post analysis, etc is basically free promotion for the event itself. You don’t see the nfl or nba banning these kinds of thing do you? It’s because it only helps draw viewers to the actual game or event.

 In the interview he said that wouldn’t be affected. Things like WYN TV and Pink Bike Racing’s coverage should be in the clear. He talked about it like it was a win win for both parties.

 @Wing-nut: actually I think it went like erm uh, eeeee, uuuuu, pbaaaa, duuu, orgnization helps everyone but errmmmm uhhhhh yeah ummmm shouldn't affect I errmmmmmm love win tv

 @Wing-nut: he also said these will be now controlled

 agree.

 What are "channels"? Sounds like something only old people get. And this Euro this and that makes it seem like this is all about keeping the sport Euro centric. There aren't even any events planned for the Americas.

 Shhh, one does not give balanced and reasonable responses. This is Pinkbike. {Screamed like Gerard Butler in 300}.

 Also, no talk about how the website was universally crappy. It does not inspire confidence.

 Could we get this in haiku form please?

 @budgie-1: ChatGPT tried hard for us:

“Sky UK we subscribe
Sports for all, my parents too
Downhill enthralls mum
Olympics to golf seen
Red Bull on TV with me
Easier for her now
Future, accept it
Paywall may come, love remains strong
Jenna earns more, win”

 F1 is an interesting example as their viewing figures went off a cliff when they put it behind a paywall. Fortunately for them they had a huge audience before that so even though they lost a lot of viewers they still had enough to make money from.

It's also big enough so finding streams online is now fairly easy which is lucky for me as we don't have Sky (or any kind of TV package like that). I suspect that probably won't be the case for EDR...

On the point about Jenna Hastings, if they'd increased prize money now they're getting paid more from rider entry, team entry going up hugely and opened up a revenue stream with broadcast partners then that would be one thing, but they haven't, and don't really seem like they intend to. That's part of what's not really selling this whole change to me. There's a lot more money coming in but it's hard to really say where it's going.

That and things are already being compromised for "the show", e.g. enduros being shorter now and only over one day so they can fit it in before other events the day after.

Looking at F1 as an example, sprint races were introduced to improve "the show", there wasn't really much consultation about it and I'd argue they haven't really helped in a lot of ways. Even things like how initially the official pole position was given to the person who won the sprint race rather than qualifying because it was a "sprint qualification" rather than a "sprint race" - the new DH semi format has real echoes of this. Very little consultation, questionable rules and decisions, done for "the show".

Another example is that I followed the EWS accounts on Instagram and YouTube. Overnight they totally changed and have become UCI Mountain Bike World Series, and now I'm getting random XC and marathon stuff in my feed, and no real idea of how I'd specifically follow the EWS/EDR. Even just from a social media management and branding perspective that seems like a huge fail, and they got told that by a lot of people immediately in the comments section...

We'll see I suppose. For me part of my problem with it all has been the absolute lack of transparency from ESO the whole way through. At least when racing starts they won't be able to just keep hiding, or giving somewhat empty answers on podcasts.

For what it's worth I hope it's a success and that my misgivings are unfounded, but I wouldn't say this podcast was particularly reassuring, on top of everything else that's happened.

 Nevermind most of us don't have cable, and I'm not interested in subscribing to another online service with a whole bunch of sports I have zero interest in.
And no North American dates? This is designed to keep this a Eurocentric sport.

 @Fill-Freakin: The last two rounds (DH and XCO) are North America. Snowshoe and Mt Ste Anne

 I had a Eurosport+ subscription for a couple of years, mainly to follow road cycling. You can buy that and you'll have it bundled with the football and snooker and whatever. The replays are available more or less instantly and archived for some time.
I quit my subscription and was already planning to replace it with gcn before the announcement of gravity disciplines joining on there. It's basically the same without the ball sports and cheaper, my friends say.

 Oh, and the TV app crashed all the time on my older Samsung TV but not on the newer. The mobile app for Android was good quality stream but had flaws, it didn't support running in the background or as small portion of the screen, if I would go to WhatsApp to comment on the racing with friends, the stream would stop.
One extra annoyance of the Eurosport+ was that it is paywalled, but you still get all the ads on the livestream.

 @boner90 thanks for sharing. I knew it--dude seems a master of weasel wording. If you're comfortable sharing more of your experience I'd love to hear it.

 @owl-X: www.easternstatescup.com/2023/01/13/ews-qualifier-update

 I’m tight as a duck’s arse. I’m not paying another subscription to watch more TV. There are better things to spend time on than 1. Going to work to get money to pay a company so I can 2. Sit on my arse looking at the TV instead of actually doing something productive.
All sports are better when participating, rather than watching others participate (except bull riding).

 They do and those formats won’t be affected at all.

 As long as there is nothing live, and submit to rules and regulations...
Oh and CB also mentioned something about live cams being used in riders, so I expect they'll control those rights too. I'll be (happily) surprised if we still see Jesse Melamed race uploads shortly after the race.

 @prevail: Chris said it won’t be affected at all. There is a big difference between what the dude says and what actually happens IRL.

 @nosewheelly the questions were not prescribed or screened by ESO/Chris Ball. They did ask what sort of things I wanted to ask about, so as Chris knew what to expect, which seems fair.

Here is a copy of what I sent them...

I'd like to cover some of Chris' background briefly, as I think it will help people who don't know that part of Chris' life to understand where he's come from.

I'd like to hear a bit about the growth of EWS, how Discovery got involved and how that's taken us to where we are now.

I will ask about the areas sited in Chris' statement 'Over the coming years we will improve this cycling discipline’s environmental credentials, push forward course design, innovate safety standards, and give fans an entirely new experience, whilst making mountain bike more accessible than ever before.'

I want to talk about the interactions with team manager groups and riders union, thinking behind the format changes, growth over the coming years, work to improve accessibility for lower ranked riders, media access, commentary, the team that ESO has built for this etc.

I'd get shot by my audience if I didn't ask about Rob Warner and also what the viewing options will be.

 @downtimepodcast: But you didn't ask the usual questions at the end! I imagine that the answer to the GBP150 question would be to buy a GCN+ or Discovery+ subscription!! (tongue-in-cheek)

 @handynzl: ha, love it!

 We will increase prize money when we have enough surplus profit after paying the shareholders.

 The riders don’t have a revenue share contract. This does not make them more money…

Hence a riders union needs to happen asap. Tv money drives all other pro sports pay.

 I enjoy watching the dh but I’m more interested in the enduro. I can ride those trails. DH starts to get a bit dull until half way through the men’s broadcast when you start to get to the decent riders

 @chrismac70: I liked old videos but not those EWS new one´s from 2 or 3 years ago...DH live is very unique,that´s why you need a good guy to talk about DH stuff and rider related stuff to get some more background on the race scene.
Doing a video like you do with WRC is not very appealing to me, EWS videos are just like that.
EWS need more inside action,close to what DH live can offer. Just more rider interviews and more engaging comments on the race.
Totally agree most of raiders can get more related to Enduro than DH,that´s why making it soo boring and poor makes me very disappointed with the EWS itself.

 For US viewers, GCN+. $50/yr or $9/mo.

 www.pinkbike.com/news/uci-and-warner-bros-discovery-announce-viewing-options-and-new-world-series-branding-for-2023-world-cups.html

Been released since 18th Jan.

 @handynzl: "Been silent on options for US viewers since 18th Jan." Fixed it for ya.

 Tell me you didn't listen to podcast with out telling me you didn't listen to the podcast.

 @budgie-1: No they haven't (been silent). For the countries listed, they could use Discovery+, all other countries are GCN+. Because your literacy levels aren't high, doesn't make it their fault.

 @handynzl: Literacy levels? Article doesn't mention broadcasting to the largest viewer constituency. But go ahead and continue to be a pedantic prick about it.

 @budgie-1: Largest viewership? That'll be Europe.

 @budgie-1: They have also said multiple times that other regions are still TBC with more ways to watch being announced in the coming months. In the podcast this was updated to coming weeks.

 Cool.

Otherwise known as a subscription/paywall.

Just say yes it's all to be paid for now.

 @GrandMasterOrge: yep, exactly this. The fact it's included in some paid TV packages is cool, but they are still paid TV packages, so by their definition not free.

I don't have any TV packages (aside from Netflix which I suppose counts), so the fact that it's now incorporated into random paid packages doesn't really mean anything to me. The free to view option that previously existed doesn't any more, but Chris wouldn't acknowledge that.

 cheers @TheReverendDriller

 When we used to lay courses back in the 90's for club and national champs etc, we would re-use the tape, to a point. That point being that it would get so tangled over the seasons, that you would spend half the day untangling things. Collecting tape was fun with tape rolled up and then stuffed down your top as you rode the course collecting in all the tape. 1990's body armour right there!

 Exactly!! Too many on here just don't get it; want everything for free, and wonder why riders get paid peanuts....
RB did a great job, but the sport wasn't growing quickly enough......6,7 rounds a season is far too few races.

 @edhayetc I guess because millions of people already pay for access to these platforms and that number is much larger than those that are aware of, or watched Red Bull TV. So immediately you have a larger potential audience, despite the paywall. Drop adverts for DH racing into the other sports on the channels and you've got to expect a fair few people will watch it. It's pretty darn exciting to watch. Doesn't mean I want to pay for it by the way.

 @downtimepodcast: I think the reality is though that most folk don't watch 99% of what they are paying for when it comes to subscription services, so I don't believe the numbers will be higher than they were when it was free on Red Bull TV. Even if non mountain bikers did end up watching it, would they then buy a bike off the back of it? Unlikely I reckon. If anything I think those into other 'extreme sports' are more likely to get hooked, and a lot of those folk are the ones who knew about Redbull TV, and the mountain biking was promoted on the app quite a lot. Finally, I totally agree that it's incredibly exciting to watch...but that is because I love the sport, know the riders, understand how incredible what they are doing is...and I think the last bit in particular is crucial, and from my experience of showing races to non mountain bikers, they just don't really get it/it's nowhere near as exciting to them...which I think is where the whole argument you've said falls down.
For what it's worth, I am far from a Red Bull fan, what they did to shut down other media when they took over from Freecaster was awful, and I think it took a lot away from the coverage of races.

 @downtimepodcast: agree with your point here regards absolute numbers, more eyes will be on it via eurosport however a majority of those will be non-riders flicking through channels and looking for something to watch for 15 mins.

At the moment we have a sport followed by a dedicated 'core' audience, I think the decision here is to exchange that for greater numbers of eyeballs, whether or not they're ever going to ride a bike or care about the sport.

It may well appeal to outside of industry sponsors (Merc etc) and may well get enduro or dh closer to possibly being an Olympic sport. I remain sceptical as so much of what makes wc dh great is the phenomenal support it has from a fan base that lives and breathes it and also participates on the weekend.

 @edhayetc: I've had a different experience with introducing people to the coverage. They seem to love it, especially if you take the time to help them understand it a bit more and tell them about some of the characters. If the new team do what they say they'll do and make the coverage better, bring out more of the characters and the unfolding battle throughout the year and make it a bit more accessible to non-core fans (without dumbing it down for us, which is a tricky balance no doubt) then I think it will bring people in. The reason they don't watch most of the stuff that they pay for is probably because it's not that exciting.

As for them not buying bikes, I don't think that's really an issue. I think it's more important that they get excited about the sport and therefore associate with the brands that support it. That makes it attractive to big (read big budgets here) out of industry brands that we've historically struggled to attract en-masse and especially to keep within the sport. That's when we'll see a lot more money pour in, riders getting paid more, etc etc. How long does that take? I don't know. But for race teams to be able to talk to sponsors and give (hopefully) much bigger viewing figures has got to help start that happening. Maybe your rich uncle will be buying a Rolex because Pivot are sponsored by them and he saw Bernard Kerr wearing one on the pre-race broadcast? Who knows!

 @GrandMasterOrge: @downtimepodcast what sucks is I felt the coverage was already too basic. I always want to hear actual opinions about tire choices, suspension designs, or if dude's gonna over-amp and blow it in the last corner again...in going for a wider audience, they're gonna be even more elementary. The mention of realtime race data makes me think of shitty gopros taped facing backwards on a motoGP fork, showing some strange angle of a rider's boot or whatever...some speedometer overlay EFFORT INDEX or whatever.

There's that old saying, "give your readers the benefit of the doubt, they'll love you for it." Skip the overviews and just get straight into the goddamn nuts and bolts of it, and let us figure it out. Premiere League doesn't go over the rules of the game before every kickoff!

arrrrrrrrgh now i'm pissed LOL

 I think DH can stand on its own, and it's strong enough to just cover it: it's the fastest way to get down this mountain!

I think we agree.

 @edhayetc: it’s not about voters buying bikes. It’s about making the sport attractive to non bike companies that’s where the money is. Look at road racing. Virtually none of the teams have the bike company in the team title. They are way down the list of team sponsors. Top road teams are sponsored by banks, car companies, supermarkets, industrial conglomerates

 Thanks @timotjj glad you're enjoying the podcast.

 It will contain- Grow the sport. Support athletes. Wider audience. Increased opportunities. It will mean- Cut costs. Make more money. Keep that money.

 @watchmen: Sounds like dynamic synergies collaborating to mitigate viewer apprehension while working to grow stakeholder investment.

 I rarely have patience for podcasts. But won't these be transcribed in the next Downtime EP from Misspent Summers? I'll just wait for that one to drop.

 @vinay: I've put some pretty handy chapters in the YouTube version. Hopefully that helps you get quickly to bits you're interested in.

 I've put chapters in the YouTube version which will help you quickly get to the bits you're interested to hear about.

 @downtimepodcast: Is there a bit where he apologises?

 @gabriel-mission9: not that I remember

 I'm glad I just skipped along and listened to short snippets as one dishonest BS answer is enough for me to not waste 1.5h on the whole thing. At this point everyone has known for some time that streaming will be a paid service, yet Ball still hasn't got the balls to say it. When asked about it, instead of a simple "no", Ball's idiotic reply was along the lines of "you won't have to pay if you're already paying for Eurosport". For the record, I'm not mad it won't be free, it was obvious after the switch and I can live without watching it. I'm just irritated by this kind of question dodging every time this guy opens his mouth. It's like he genuinely believes listeners/readers are morons.

 Waterboarding would be the best way to get real answers.

 @bananowy: congrats, you recited 3 seconds of a 3 min answer. Maybe don’t skip that much next time. He clearly stated, several times, that MTB broadcasting is now a subscription model.
Also they are looking into free to watch options like the DH semi finals or the U23 WCs. But it’s not clear yet if it will happen.

 @prevail: Sure thing pal. So you think Ball honestly and directly answered the interviewer's question "Will we be able to see the DH final free to air"? Before you reply, please carefully refer back to the podcast where Ball repeatedly lies that "some" people will have to pay, "it depends on where you are", "those who have Eurosport/GCN+ won't have to pay", that "he's not dodging the question" (lol) and that "it's very complex" (in response to a simple yes/no question).

Seems I'm not the one who skipped too much Semis and U23 have zero to do with that specific question in the podcast btw.

Honestly though - you seriously, deep down, prefer this kind of bullshitting for several minutes to a simple "no, there's no plan to stream DH finals for free at the moment"? Or are you playing devil's advocate for fun?

Again, I don't care that it's paid or that Chris took his early retirement opportunity. I've just got second-hand embarassment at how spineless he is about it.

 @bananowy: Wait what? I haven't listened to the podcast, so clarify something for me if you would... Am I to understand Chris Ball took early retirement off the back of this deal? Literally took the money and ran? Christ, if thats true then he's even more of a c*nt than he looks.

 @bananowy: it’s not a simple yes or no in this case. My wallet won’t be affected because I’m using the Eurosport Player for years now. I’m basically getting more content on this Plattform in the future for the same price.

 @bananowy: The "I'm not dodging the questions" thing was quite something. I was almost literally at that point thinking about how he was doing exactly that.

I just don't get why he wouldn't say that it isn't free - there is literally no way that anyone will be able to watch it without paying for a subscription service. Trying to just swerve that by going "well, you might already happen to pay for a service that happens to show it" is just weak.

If those broadcasters have paid for the rights to it, I would imagine that it means that contractually ESO couldn't broadcast it for free even if they wanted to, so why not just come clean about it...

 @gabriel-mission9: Haha sorry for being confusing, I just meant it was likely a very lucrative deal for him, he hasn't gone anywhere (yet)

@prevail It is a simple yes or no. Your wallet is affected by your Eurosport subscription. DH finals are not free for you or anyone else. The question wasn't "will the price change for existing Eurosport Player users". It was "Will we be able to see the DH final free to air". The answer to that is no, plain and simple. I wouldn't mind Ball explaining that some are already paying, if he just said "no, it won't be free" in the first place.

 @bananowy: I'm 10 minutes in. Dude's not talking to us. His audience is equally enamored with his CEO vibes...tall handsome white guy talking calmly and failing upwards. At five minutes, Downtimer brings up Ball's Calgary race protest thing, which is often held up as some evidence that Ball is a cool guy. Mad lad. Instead of having any sort of fun with it, Ball reminds us that bureaucracy is the real way forward, that trusting the system (now: him) is best.
At ten minutes he just said that the plan was to bring EWS into the UCI all along. Huh?
I'm not sure I'm gonna hit play again.
Millions of people ride bikes, we're not automatically my bro because we share that. This guy sucks. Aspiring corpo weasel, I'm zero percent hyped on him or his abilities to make DH better--or even maintain its current level.
His AMA on here was shit, his communication with the riders has been shit, and he ain't really talking. I think it's time to admit his history as a rider is immaterial, the public support from people who stand to make money from his perceived success is worthless, and he's not going to be forthcoming with us because he doesn't have to. Dude's a suit, bro!

 @downtimepodcast: how to talk for ages without actually saying anything, gave up but only really want to know if they will outlaw Vital raw?

 @owl-X: "the plan was to bring EWS into the UCI all along" - Did he seriously say that? Missed this gem. Means he's either lying now or lied to everyone when EWS started years ago.

His AMA was something to behold indeed. Well said that he ain't actually talking. He's just moving his mouth and some meaningless buzzword-filled noise comes out.

 @jimmythehat: my understanding from our conversation was that none of the current media being created from the events would be stopped.

 @downtimepodcast: Let’s hope that’s true, only mention as he said like WynTV which is great but doesn’t actually show rider footage

 @bananowy: yeah, at about 9:00 in. It's what made me pause the vid. Straight up opposite of what I'd always heard...that's how these guys are comfortable operating though: say whatever you think the person in front of you wants to hear, or whatever will get you on to the next thing...

I was so hyped to see the team rosters yesterday, too!

 @jimmythehat: Because that was RedBull's rules that Wyn had to operate under. Same with ending on the RedBull logo and chime. Ben Cathro went into it a bit deeper three(?) seasons ago when he got reprimanded for showing race footage.

Wyn has had discussions with ESO (he has said as much on the Making Up the Numbers podcast); and with Chris Ball saying that they are wanting to make the coverage more professional all around, then it would make sense to see if they could help Wyn be more, er, professional...

 additionally what I picked up for DH:
1) Courses will get easier. he mentioned "balance" between technical tracks and TV coverage but did not say anything more about getting courses more technical but then talked a lot about making them suitable for coverage.
2) More live data, e.g. heart rate bla bla bla. He likes that from other sports e.g. motorsport
3) WynTV and other blogs should not be affected and there is no appetite to change these but he also said that there will be more 'control' over these.
4) Long term plan (couple of years): aiming to do a copy of EWS100 format for DH racing
5) Now that all disciplines are under one wagon, he's looking to develop a structure for feedback from teams and riders. There are now over 200 teams registered across all discplines.

 @ciechan:
1. Making the tracks suitable for TV coverage is the wrong way around. Make the tracks suitable for riding the way DH should be ridden, then get those TV people to just do their job. The few who are watching it on the telly are paying a lot of money for them to do just that.
2. Are they going to share personal data of the individual athletes, will they be required to share that? Morning resting rate, aerobic threshold, max etc... Otherwise, what's the point of sharing the actual heart rate?
3. What does "control" imply if they're not going to change or affect these? Sounds like Chinese to me.

 @ciechan: They vaguely mentioned using live onboard shots at one point. I'm kind of wondering if that means they'll be providing riders with a GoPro/equivalent camera so they can use the footage on the broadcast, meaning riders won't be able to use GoPros personally any more. Ball was very cryptic, so I'm wondering if the implication that WynTV will be fine because that's just chatting in the pits/coursewalks, whereas the restrictions will come for riders like Bernard Kerr or any of the others who release their practise/quali/race run footage in vlogs.

Not necessarily the end of the world for DH, but that will totally gut the vast majority of footage for the EWS/EDR. Most coverage of that comes from rider vlogs, and most rider vlogs are GoPro clips. You got way more info about those races from looking at rider vlogs than you ever did from the official highlights show.

 @vinay: hey I am not saying whether its good or bad - just providing statements from podcast.

 @ciechan: Oh yeah, that was clear from your first sentence, no worries! I just had an opinion about what he said. Thanks for the summary by the way!

 @ciechan: just going back to the vlog point, relistened to his answers in relation to it. He specifically says about people "knowing their operational boundaries", then went on to say that the key focus is the live show, and finally that they wouldn't do anything to stop people doing things like pit chat, course walks and so on. Kind of sounds to me like that's finals footage being ring fenced for their paying broadcast partners - he talked about onboard footage earlier which would also tie in to my comment above.

Hopefully this is all wrong, and I'm making 2+2=5 but there's something about the way he answers (and doesn't answer) questions that makes me skeptical.

 @CleanZine: Nothing makes my skin crawl more than someone who answers a direct question with a load of wordy nonsense that communicates nothing whatsoever. It's such a cowardly move. If you are ashamed of the answer, then perhaps you should rethink what you are doing...
Was speaking to someone the other day who was talking about this very communication style, but saying what a skill it was and how much they admired people who could do it on the fly. I asked them outright why they enjoyed being lied to. The conversation ended very quickly after that. Some people are very f*cking confused about life.

 @ciechan: nothing gets me more than rider heart rate data

 I just listened to the interview - it sounds like it will be on Eurosport and Discovery+ depending on where you live, or globally with a GCN subscription. I think it’s like $8/month for GCN and you can also watch road racing, cx and track if you’re into that sort of thing. Not sure if GCN is live though.

 @Wing-nut: It's live (and on demand {for when you forget to watch it live})

 Have done a search on GCN's android app and it looks as if annually it will cost R720 or around $42 . They have the first XCO/DH listed as available on demand. I'm feeling a bit happier.

 I read somewhere that the average time of actual game play in the nfl is around 11 minutes.

 A slow 8 year death.

 We're now all going to be paying and the team entry fees have doubled yet mysteriously the prize money stays the same for year one...

 @GrandMasterOrge:

 Same place it was coming from until now. Sponsorship, which sells stuff to viewers.

 If everything is free, what do you need money for?

 @handynzl: my new T shirt