5 Things We Learned from Red Bull Rampage 2022

Oct 24, 2022 at 8:13
by Ed Spratt  
William Robert carving his way out of the shoot.

1. Rigid TV structure & wind still don't work well together

It was business as usual at Rampage with wind once again playing a major role in disrupting the competition. Despite shifting the event to a slightly earlier time it was not enough to allow riders to take a second run. You can't blame the organizers for the weather as that is out of their control, and even the backup weather day had a worse forecast for wind than Friday.

After the conclusion of the event, riders said that the gaps between runs were bigger than ever before. Tyler McCaul has vented his frustration on social media saying: "I wanted a second run really, really badly. I ran back up to the top ready to get redemption and when I got up there I was told there was a 30-45 minute TV break. We knew the wind was coming and I knew our window of good weather was shrinking with every minute that went by. I was pissed to be stalled out like that when I was ready to ride. I felt like it was more about the TV show and less about the riders and their riding."

T-Mac never got his second chance to pull his run together at his 10th Rampage faulering before the Gee Atherton transfer.
It seemed that this year's big show had a far more rigid structure that appeared to be leaning more towards ESPN than the normal coverage we get from Red Bull. The strict structure of showing a computer graphic of each rider's run alongside a short video piece extended the gaps between riders, causing it to take over two hours from the start of the broadcast to Brandon Semenuk starting the last of the first runs. Most gaps stuck to around eight minutes between riders, but some extended as far as 10 minutes, all precious time when it was known the wind was coming and would end any chance of riding. Keeping a 30-40 minute break between the first and second runs seemed like an even worse decision; given that not every rider wanted a second run you may have been able to finish the event before the wind. Something definitely needs to change to make the format more adaptable for changing weather conditions.

Here is Tyler McCaul's full statement from social media:

bigquotesLots of frustration with this bobble towards the end of my first run that didn’t allow me to hit the last feature and get a clean one top to bottom. I wanted a second run really, really badly. I ran back up to the top ready to get redemption and when I got up there I was told there was a 30-45 minute TV break. We knew the wind was coming and I knew our window of good weather was shrinking with every minute that went by. I was pissed to be stalled out like that when I was ready to ride. I felt like it was more about the TV show and less about the riders and their riding.

I’m sure it’s great for the viewers to see all the behind the scenes stuff and augmented reality line previews before we drop in…but while the viewers are at home watching all that filler, we’re sitting at the top anxious to drop in while watching the winds pick up. Once TV was ready for us to drop for our second runs the wind had arrived, and none of us had a chance to get a second run.

I’m sorry to all the viewers that were tuned in to watch us ride. I was in the exact position I didn’t want to be in sitting at the top with everyone watching, trying to decide whether or not it was worth dropping in to battle the winds for a chance to get my run. I was up there with some of my best friends and they all told me they didn’t wanna see me drop in the wind. I knew they were right but it was a tough pill to swallow.

As viewers…would you rather watch a shortened less elaborate production, or would you rather watch us ride to our full potential in the safest conditions possible??? I’m probably going to get an earful for being so transparent about this, but it’s how I feel…and I feel strongly about it.

Massive respect to all the riders that stomped their first runs and put on such a good show. In the end it’s my fault for making a mistake in my first run, but I as well as others would have loved to have had a second chance.




2. Canadians & single crowns continue to rule Rampage

Brandon Semenuk brought back the return of the single crown bike to Rampage in 2021 and just a year later we see another win, this time from Brett Rheeder, against the still popular choice of dual crown bikes. Not only did we see back-to-back single crown wins but Canadian riders have now won the last seven Rampages - you have to go back to Andreu Lacondeguy's win in 2014 to see a different country for a winning rider. Rheeder hasn't placed outside the top two at the last three Rampages that he has entered (Brett missed the event in 2021). Looking at the bigger picture, Canadian riders have dominated the event since the first year with a massive 11 Rampage wins. USA riders have secured three while France and Spain tie for one win each.

And then there were 3. Single crowns are here again and winning Redbull Rampage back to back.

2001 Wade Simmons CANADA
2002 Tyler Klassen CANADA
2003 Cédric Gracia
2004 Kyle Strait
2008 Brandon Semenuk CANADA
2010 Cameron Zink
2012 Kurt Sorge CANADA
2013 Kyle Strait
2014 Andreu Lacondeguy
2015 Kurt Sorge CANADA
2016 Brandon Semenuk CANADA
2017 Kurt Sorge CANADA
2018 Brett Rheeder CANADA
2019 Brandon Semenuk CANADA
2021 Brandon Semenuk CANADA
2022 Brett Rheeder CANADA



3. The first grind at Rampage

Despite the wind issues in finals we did get to see plenty of creative lines including a sneaky grind from Dylan Stark. Offering something different from the other riders, Dylan Stark brought in influence from outside of mountain biking for his run with a wild grind to drop near the end of his run. To keep this trick a secret until finals and to make sure no one would stop him, Dylan's dig team dug a hole next to the takeoff and buried the rail the night before finals. The dig team then had to quickly dig it and get everything set as Dylan was making his way down his line. Now it has been done once we will be interested to see if Dylan or anyone else pulls something unique out at the last minute in the future.

Dylan Stark tabling over his unique quarter pipe feature at the very bottom of the mountain.




4. Judging Needs Reworking

Ignoring the wind and the production structure one thing that continues to not work for Rampage is the live judging. Putting aside everyone's own opinions about what a winning Rampage run should be, it's clearer with each year that both fans and competitors are getting more frustrated at the current method of scoring runs.

It's hard to see one obvious solution, and even slopestyle competitions often have similar issues, but maybe we need to hold the judges' scores until they have seen every run then they can better order them after seeing what everyone has to offer? Then they can adjust based on what riders can add for the second runs and score after each rider as they do now. If they don't want to completely shake things up, then I think just a short comment from judges could help provide a reason why one run scores higher or lower than another. There is already a camera in the judge's, booth so why not add a mic in there for a quick response about each score?

Good luck getting that through airport security.



5. Szymon Godziek's run was the clear fan favourite

As we found in our poll, everyone had strong opinions on who they thought should have placed higher. But one person who seemed to top out the voting was Szymon Godziek who secured nearly 900 more votes than Brett Rheeder on who deserved to win the event. Szymon was also sitting in second place for his actual result of 2nd and stormed to the top of the best trick polling with 1906 votes. Luckily we don't have to imagine how big a second run could have been for Szymon as he put everything on the line in his first run and seemed pretty happy at the bottom of the hill with some of the huge moves he was able to fit in on the way down the line.

70 feet tip to tip. Szymon Godziek tipping the hat to McGazza for second place.





209 Comments

  • 201 1
 I watched via ESPN+ and it was a big step backward for this event. I was shocked at the amount of commercial breaks during an event already packed with advertising that I paid to watch. They managed to ruin one of the best events on the MTB calendar. Ill be watching a free replay next year
  • 11 2
 I sure hope the free RB replay is available next year here in the states like it was this year.
  • 9 2
 @kcy4130: The replay is available on Redbull TV.
  • 61 11
 Glad I skipped the live show & watched the replay. I skipped all the visual arrow drawing stuff. RedBull paid that guy drawing arrows with dust popping off them more than they did the riders and gave his roller coasters infinitely more time than the riders themselves.

Surprising they didn't name the graphic arrow the winner.
As soon as I got through skipping all the garbage to see their runs, I looked at the time on the bottom of my screen & knew there were no second runs and skipped right to the end.

Rheeder & Semenuk winning on spinners sucked. Symon three-ing the run in to the canyon was insane.

And why was TVS allowed in the finals to just roll down? Shouldn't someone fighting for a spot have had that place in the finale?
  • 4 0
 RBTV with VPN
  • 1 0
 @sino428: Yes, I hope it continues to be in future years too.
  • 25 0
 @blowmyfuse: Arrow Graphic got Robbed
  • 12 0
 Same, watched it with friends on ESPN. Gotta say it was the slowest, least exciting rampage I've watched some of. Good news is we instead spent most of the time building new trail.
  • 3 0
 @FloydTShark: Didnt work for me. Tried a million counties. Then I realized i had ESPN+ due to my Disney Plus bundle. The coverage was way to long and drawn out. Way to much time between riders - WAY to much. They need to just start this earlier.
  • 9 0
 @blowmyfuse: Ditto that - my local park's last uplift day (for me) of the year but I didn't realize the replay was already set up on RBTV by the time I got home. Baller day: played all day then kicked back for more shredding.

Agreed too on Rheeder & Semenuk or rather: Godziek effing clean flip over the canyon was pure insanity, easily the baller-est move of them all. I didn't think Stark had the cleanest run, but - a f*cking 55 - after jumping that canyon? That's a 70 mimimum alone. even with a foot off after that grind. Apparently the judges don't like canyon flips b/c Fairclough's absurd actual / mostly free-ride moves in 2019 - less dug / more natural trail than anyone's followed by that flip was ridiculous. I'd say he got robbed but - he got super robbed.

Rheeder & Semenuk are insane, it was all smooth & whatnot but I just don't see how Godziek didn't easily get highest scores on that run but hey, we all have our opinions.
  • 4 2
 @blowmyfuse: TVS said he had something big planned. He just didn't feel safe and or confident enough to pull the trigger. I think it was the right choice to let him in, and I think he made the right choice whether or not it met yours or anyone else's expectations. I'm sure if he had done a big move, like he planned, you wouldn't be complaining.
  • 2 2
 I watched on ESPN+ even though I thought I cancelled a bit ago, to reduce monthly auto pay shiz. Just logged in, to cancel again, and saw this:
Your subscription is active until 08/31/2022

hahaha
  • 1 1
 I'd just like to point out in #4, even PB is making reference to Rampage being a slope style event... Smile
  • 1 0
 @Meettaco: I used proton VPN (which is free and safe) to be in Japan and the Netherlands and it worked pretty well; halfway through the Netherlands stopped working so I swapped to japan and it worked perfectly.
  • 3 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: Brendog 100% was robbed. Terrifying line landed to perfection.

@takeiteasyridehard I must have skipped that context on TVS. I just went to his run, they talked about his injury, he straight aired and I skipped the next arrow session.

And I'm with @threesixtykickflip "Arrow Graphic" was robbed. Beer
  • 4 3
 @blowmyfuse: Hey Tom Van Steen truly deserved to be there and showed why...insane how injured in '21 he got entertaining punks like you and me breaking so many bones (on what would have been a 1st place run)....and to come back and ride 2022 Rampage with all his boys on the big stuff>>You gotta be on another level of existence my bro.
Respect that.
  • 2 2
 @SixxerBikes: for a brief second, I thought you actually talk like that in real life.
  • 6 2
 A lot of people here are putting all their judgement on 1 feature alone and missing the point of building a riding an entire line.
The Canyon gap, while being a really long jump, isn't a technically hard feature to complete. Flipping it was a huge feat 10 years ago when Kelly McGarry first did it. Nowadays people are flipping jumps that size every Fest event. Spinning into the double drop was hugely ballsy but if you're good at spinning drops and just 360'd a bigger one prior, then it's a fairly easy feat to pull off. The lead up to the drops/canyon, and the section after the trick jump in Godziek's run were tame in comparison when you look at the jam packed run of Rheeder's. His first drop was short, steep and super exposed, then he tricked back to back huge features straight down the mountain with exposure to the right down half the run. Don't let the helicopter camera angles fool you, that was a super steep, super gnarly line and to throw massive tricks in as well is gnarly as hell. The judges spend all week looking at the lines, they're more than capable of deciding what the best line's of the day are compared to a load of people who haven't set foot on the hill before...
  • 3 2
 @Joyrode: "The lead up to the drops/canyon, ... in Godziek's run were tame in comparison when you look at the jam packed run of Rheeder's."
Watch the top ridge again, literally right from the gate, which has the most exposure with tech. Godziek flashed that better than ANYONE, including Rheeder. And then he manualled!
  • 1 0
 @snomaster: I wanted to give extra points for a big manual on a DH bike on an exposed ridgeline when you're about to huck a 360 into a double drop and still get the speed perfect for a backflip across a massive canyon gap.

Sure, some guys can ride back wheel in their sleep. You get mega bonus points if you beast one there. Beer
  • 2 0
 @blowmyfuse: Agreed. Ive never said anyone got robbed at Rampage til Fairclough literally got robbed. I rewatch that run constantly & in my alternate reality, he wins.

I get that judges are actually thinking of shit we're not - fine, But I think there should be a separate online or whatever ranking & see how that plays out. Ah but I piss in the wind…
  • 1 0
 @Joyrode: I hear yr points and while Im a huge Rheeder fan I’m still not seeing how anything in his run cam close to the gall & balls that was a 75 canyon flip w/ a few huge 360s and a huge back sui / no hander.

Good points on what judges know / see vs a ton of hacks (Im one) but the risk of falling in that canyon does not at all equate to the urban Disney jumps of Fest - risky but not approaching Utah death-chasms. If it was really that easy then everybody would’ve had a canyon backflip in their runs.

Rheeder has finesse, amp, and single-crown tail-whip/spins for sure but was it really that different from anything we see in his slopetyle? It was pretty predictable just bigger. Maybe the same can be said of Godzieks run too - both fast on the ridgeline but Godz’ manuals w/ exposure & wind were purely raw… Godz & Rheeder both had good speed on that ridge as well while Semenuk had some slower sections

Anyway - not to bust on you, I like all comments here, but the judges did say that risk and exposure was a huge part in scoring - Godz score didn't seem to reflect that risk & while Rheeders line had risk but it was pretty expected / normal (IMO) vs Godz’ line

But you know: crying over spilt milk & but it would be cool to 1) get explanations from the judges and 2) have the viewers vote for their winners - flea market as that would be, bc yearly, what fans perceive is pretty much nuked by judges and the gap in that perception - at least without much explanation - leads to mistrust, judgement and hypebole (which Im guilty of btw)
  • 2 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: It's ironic that the judges give scores out. When the riders get together for events they put on themselves, they don't formally score each other. They'll literally give it to the guy they knew did the best because they all comprehend what each is doing, overcoming, trying, risking.

If anything, an anonymous riders choice award would be the real winner of Rampage. But then you can say people would play the popularity card.
  • 2 0
 @blowmyfuse: Totally true: would be interesting to hear who the riders think is the best at these events - would totally change everything.
  • 144 4
 6. DISNEY AND ESPN+ HAVE NO BUSINESS STREAMING MTB
  • 12 1
 This should be #1.
  • 16 5
 ESPN is for sports. MTB is a sport. The exposure to the masses benefits the athletes. They 100% have business in streaming MTB. What they didn't do is do it correctly. Hopefully they learn from this. Fix it. Give the riders bigger pay checks and things get better.
  • 11 0
 @onemanarmy: Agree on your point about exposure, for sure. BUT...and I think it's a big BUT...Red Bull has plenty of money to fund the coverage and broadcast of this without getting Disney involved. The focus MUST be on the riding, the dig/build culture, AND the riders.

As soon as we're standing around on TV timeouts, we're completely losing all of that. Great vibe out there amongst these riders. Keep the energy up and watch what they can do to push the limits of this sport. We must honor their dedication to this pursuit with commercial perversion, yo!

LONG LIVE HURLEY'S TRAILS
  • 1 0
 @HighRidge4lifeyo:

Red Bull's coverage is not even in the same conversation as ESPN and Disney.

But you're 100% correct on the rest.
  • 1 0
 Wish I could upvote 1,000x
  • 88 2
 Coverage started at 930 first runs concluded around 1, for 12 riders. So much bullshit in between runs. Could have fit the two runs for everybody in that time frame.
  • 48 0
 My family watches both world cup and rampage with me each year. Each year we all typically find rampage much more boring because it takes so long in between each rider. With world cup there is hardly any downtime. This year's rampage seemed even worse and drawn out. A four hour broadcast for is not okay for just getting only 16 runs total. Each run only takes less than 2 minutes. Maybe do scoring at the end if it helps. Could easily get 2 runs for 18 riders done in less than 2.5 hours. (Assuming no wind holds or injuries).

Also, I think most people watching rampage are mountain bikers. We don't need made-for-TV broadcasts, back stories, drawn out 3d course visualization, etc. Most of us skip over that stuff anyways. It is not like the Olympics where almost every person watching doesn't do that specific Olympic sport, so you need to add all the filler to the general public engaged. Heck, I don't even think they do all this filler in the Olympics. Why does rampage need it.
  • 7 0
 @vesania: That is essentially what everyone else is saying. Solutions are relatively easy if they're willing to listen to the viewers and athletes.
  • 1 0
 @vesania: I haven't watched live rampage in years. I watch the replay and skip ahead to the runs, stuff in between takes so long and is quite boring tbh lol. I don't see the scores and like to guess the places too, and either myself or the judges are way off (it's the judges).
  • 60 1
 let Rampage die on the ESPN corporate vine....new event needs to start that gets back to the roots. As an avid Rampage watcher, it was just painful to watch this year. Really was. Camera angles were terrible but I also don't need a long drawn out backstory on each rider before their run....do that BEFORE the broadcast.
  • 53 1
 The whole broadcast is over 4 hours long. It's kinda ridiculous that it takes that long to get 16 riders down the hill for one run each. Even if you cut out all the futzing around after Semenuk's run, it's still like two and half hours. Put all the stupid fly around graphics and athlete bios in the pre-show. Or use that stuff as filler if there's a wind hold or an injury. But don't bog down the event and hold up the riders with all that bullshit.
  • 11 0
 4 hours and they only did 1 run...lol
  • 11 0
 Totally agree. The super bowl isn't even a 4 hours broadcast.... If they really want the filler then don't make it a live event. Film the riders runs with a 1/2 or 1 hour delay and put the filler in. Then the event can still happen with 2 runs for everyone.
  • 8 0
 They just stretching it out to make more money. It has become quite the carnival. They were interviewing pro surfer and skateboarder on the concepts of adrenaline for heavens sake. They need to do what was said about judging for sure and hold off until all runs are done. Pros can branch off and make their own Rampage if RedBull can’t get it together. They do it for the love and would have no problem digging a week for the thrill. Also, many guys said how scary their lines were, and Kyle said multiple times how he didn’t get enough practice. There needs to be a longer dig and practice.
  • 2 0
 Longer dig, longer practice = better TWO RUN format of the line you built. Finals could take 2-3 days if need be, sell more ad space that way and more footy more footy more footy...and get more ON GROUND shots of those rider drops/top sections so we can really appreciate how truly big all of these hits are. The constant helicopter shots were insulting as if it were some early 2000's throwback to 'rad' heli filmed snowboarding movies.
junky.
  • 45 2
 First off, huge credit to Tyler for not only speaking his mind honestly but doing it professionally. That is the ONLY way these guys are going to get heard by these big corporations.

As for the timing of the event... this in my opinion is a relatively easy fix and here are the easiest 2 options.

1- Start earlier. Remove ALL the made for TV crap out of the LIVE broadcast. This will shorten the event time and should allow for safer seconds runs. If the conditions are reasonable more guys will take their second runs.

This will create better content for the fans and greater opportunity for the riders without feeling like they need to push their luck on their first runs. Tyler very easily could have gone for that wall ride knowing his chances of a second run were limited but it would not have been the right choice.

Edit in all the made for TV stuff and include it in the follow up broadcasts and what gets posted on Red Bull TV and ESPN+. That does 3 things... it streamlines it for the live viewers, increases the odds of 2 full runs, and still allows you to put in all the made for TV stuff on the follow up broadcasts. More than likely you'll get a percentage of people watching it twice. That's good for those outlets and good for the athletes.

2- Do the event over 2 days. You can do your pregame TV crap in the morning. Then get guys riding. Do their first runs. They then have 2 hours after everyone has ridden to walk their lines and clean them up. NO RIDING.

Day 2. Same thing. Come in. Made for TV stuff with the new story lines resulting from the first runs. More drama. Get their run 2's in. Then afternoon they do the celebration and what not. Day 2 is the longer event and it's on Sat morning so more people are gonna watch it anyways. But Day 1 will still be heavily viewed.

That means hey have 2 days of content. That's good for the outlets and the athletes.

And if you're gonna be doing all this... increase the payout to the athletes and diggers next year.



Addressing the judging.
It's IMPOSSIBLE for these guys to be perfect and to please everyone. They're humans. I can tell you this... none of it is personal. They're all good dudes and want what's best for the riders and the event. They're doing the best they can. There's no behind the scenes BS going on.

But I think improving the system could help a lot.

When you stuff them all in a room they're talking to each other. That means they'll naturally hype each other up over certain things. There's also a natural tendency to start low and work higher. Especially when your 4 time winner is at the end. They could only score so high and leave a window for Semenuk to score in.

I propose that instead of working together on a score they all score independently and then those get added together to create the full score.

You can increase the judge total. Similar to say ice skating or anything like that. They have people that are specifically looking at certain elements. They have a technical team and an artistry team. They're professionals.

So in this case you can break up your elements.

Tech/Difficult of line. 2 people. They can talk to each other and come up with scores then average their scores and submit them.
Flow/Control. 2 people. Same.
Tricks/Style. 2 people. Same.
Amplitude/Speed. 2 people. Same.

Each of these should hold a different available point total that adds up to 90. Example... Tech should have more value than tricks..... like speed and style. Style cuts the speed total down but isn't as important overall as speed. If you're slow AF but do gnarly tricks you're not gonna beat someone that's fast and does slightly easier tricks.

Then you have a team of 2 that judged the entire run on a scale of 1-10. That's your final 10 points that adds to 100.

The averaging will help level out any hype bias or just odd judging totals. Giving appropriate totals to appropriate things will also help level the field for guys like Tyler and Strait and those guys that are selecting GNARLY lines but not doing slope tricks. Stope tricks shouldn't win the event if they're bypassing the gnar too much. So if Tech holds say 25 and tricks hold 15 you'll be forced to find a balance.
  • 5 0
 very thoughtful. +1!
  • 5 0
 Could do the pro surfing style - since the majority of people are watching this live streaming have a wind window. 2 days or 3. Run the event when it is safe (probably early in the am) and make sure riders get 2 runs. It is ridiculous that riders did not get 2 runs - especially since the judges clearly where judging based on another run supposed to happen. They can then package it up for regular TV and do a 2 hour spot with all the fluff. I do think the videos in between have value (but not for an event that gets shutdown to wind all the time). Those should be on the made for TV broadcast a month later or whatever.
  • 1 0
 What a comment. Nicely written, I love it. That 2-day structure would be awesome.
  • 1 0
 They should judge the event on a scoring level kind of like Diving.
The line gets a score from the judges in advance.
Then points are awarded or taken away based on tricks and fluidity of the line all added or taken from the original line score.
It would help us understand why someone who finished their line with no tricks gets such a high score and someone who does a lot of tricks does not get a high score.
If the guy who does tricks has a low scoring line, we already know that he needs to do more tricks to beat a guy with a high scoring line.
Or a guy who does no tricks can have a super gnarly line and get a great score if he is fluid and fast through it.
Basically it would allow us to understand the judges decisions without them having to add extra notes or anything afterward. It may clear up some hate toward the judging.
Does this make any sense? It makes sense in my head but i may just be rambling.
  • 30 0
 ESPN buys rights to showcase UFC... Ruins it. ESPN buys right to showcase NHL... Ruins it. ESPN buys right to showcase Red Bull Rampage... Ruins it. Seriously, somebody stop these cartoon level villains. They kill everything they touch. They're gonna find a way to incorporate digital ads on the lips and landings of mountain bike events any day now...
  • 2 0
 always goes to the highest bidder, in this case a contract to disney for 10yrs. I dont see any network purchasing the viewing rights for a viewership that is 3mil globally give or take. Its not entertainment like football. I'm saying be happy with what you got, cause you might not get anything in 2023... Disney Sucks, don't ever work for them, They just take talent and crush your peanuts into peanutbutter
  • 4 0
 ESPN as a company has turned into cancer. They once were decent and now they're trash. Redbull is far from perfect but man compared to Discovery or ESPN it's not even comparable.
  • 2 0
 Shhhh don't give them any ideas!
  • 26 0
 Judged events like this naturally favor the last few athletes in the start order. It's built into the scoring structure. Having two runs is supposed to alleviate that issue by giving judges a chance to more finely calibrate scores, but as literally everyone who's ever been to Rampage knows, wind usually picks up before second runs. Some day, we'll learn. Maybe. We hope.
  • 14 2
 The issue is they copied and pasted what bmx does in terms of judging. I remember during the dew tour several times, Scotty Cramner would ride before Daniel Dares and even though Scotty had more amplitude / more rotations, the judges heavily favored Daniel. Same thing happens in slopestyle I would say. Well unless Nicolai washes out, then it’s clear who wins.

I say rampage truly became an issue when Brendog was attending. It’s clear as day, they don’t care about line choice / style / Gnar in comparison to how many tricks you pull.

I really think they need to retire those old heads from judging. I feel like the only valid judges are riders who’ve been through multiple eras of rampage. The old guard sees a trick and it’s like they behave like, “oh piece of candy…”

Another idea is the just get rid of the judges. Anyone who bought a ticket will be allowed to vote.
  • 11 0
 @kroozctrl: Kyle J, Greg Watts, and Darren Berrecloth have a bag of tricks that anybody would be stoked to have. The other two judges (Bender and Spangler) have been through all eras of rampage. How do you get judges who have been through multiple eras of rampage without being part of the old guard?
  • 14 0
 1. Judges SHOULD NOT be allowed to interact with each other during the judging process. If someone cant assess the difficulty and amplitude on their own to score accordingly, they should not be a judge. I was surprised to see so much chatter between judges. This influences scoring and allows bias to occur.....as it clearly was occurring.

2. We have the technology to know so much about these riders runs now. Exact size of drops, average speed, gradient of their line/run. Why not assign points to each type of trick/drop/speed/steepness with +/- added by judges for how cleanly it was executed or other intangibles. The riders then accumulate points as they go down and allow the judges to nudge each feature/scoring attribute in one direction or another. You then could show exactly how each score broke down and see how judges +/- each attribute based on cleanliness of execution, amplitude or other factors. I feel like something like this would allow for some transparency and also reward riders for sending huge drops/gaps (rather than just flippy spinny things), ripping their line extra fast or taking the steepest/gnarest line on the mountain.
  • 6 4
 @ckcost: "Judges SHOULD NOT be allowed to interact with each other during the judging process. "

Its impossible to eliminate all bias, talking helps to reduce personal bias which is why all judges do it regardless of the sport.

"Why not assign points to each type of trick/drop/speed/steepness with +/- added by judges for how cleanly it was executed or other intangibles. "

What do you think they're basing their scores on if its not LINE CHOICE, FLUIDITY AND STYLE, TRICKS, AIR AND AMPLITUDE? Ya know, the literal titles of the 4 judging criteria?

"I feel like something like this would allow for some transparency and also reward riders for sending huge drops/gaps (rather than just flippy spinny things)"

It sounds like you're going more off your personal biases rather than understanding what you're watching. Do you recall why people thought Norbs got robbed? It was because he did two "spinny things" off cliffs in opposite directions and at the time the judges were more heavily focused on big drops than tricks. The judging wasn't perfect but I agree with the top 3 this year.
  • 3 0
 @scott-townes: Did I say that Judges not interacting would "eliminate all bias"? Not that I can find. You are right - it's impossible to totally eliminate bias. But having judges not talk to each other will limit how much bias is reflected in overall scores. When you have 1 judge being biased, it's 1 score. when you have judges talking among themselves, you allow that 1 judges bias to impact other judges too. One additional step to help with this is to throw out both the highest and lowest score from each run. This is what WSL does.

My point about assigning points and publishing them is all about transparency for the fans. If rider X 3's a 30ft drop and then rider Y 3's a 40 ft drop and then rider Z oppo 3's a 40ft drop, and they all executed it cleanly with stomped landings everyone could see the score each rider got for that feature. The "flippy spinny" part clearly threw you off. For example, the chatter about riders heading to the canyon gap zone avoiding a bunch of steep tech gnar would be obvious if fans could see that there was scoring based on average gradiant of each riders line and the time it took them to get down. Both of which could be clear and transparent scoring criteria. Riders then have to make a decision - score lower on those criteria to score high on a feature of such consequence.

Judges see specific stats about each feature on their screens and assess predetermined scores for each feature/trick with deductions for things like over/under shooting, putting a foot down ect. . Scores could be aggregated on screen as the rider descends and final points for speed and gradient added at the end. People could actually see where runs were won and lost. I never said I agree or disagree with the results, but it's clear that something needs to be done with the judging because, valid or not, every year it is one of the biggest talking points.
  • 1 6
flag scott-townes (Oct 24, 2022 at 13:47) (Below Threshold)
 @ckcost: TL : DR
  • 34 8
 What if, and hear me out on this, RB Rampage has outlived its useful lifespan in the same way The Great British Bake Off has? Every season just a mild rehash of the same content, no real surprises. Or, am I alone in this opinion?
  • 55 1
 HOW DARE YOU DISPARAGE THE GREATEST THRILL ON TELEVISION THAT WAY!!!! THE GBB IS A TREASURE THAT WILL LIVE FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!
  • 30 1
 say what you want about Rampage, but GBBO is off limits Smile
  • 1 0
 @SATN-XC: I'll see your GBBO and raise you a Gabbo.
  • 5 0
 @atourgates: GBBO shot itself in the foot with the Mexican food episode

Holy shit that was painful to watch
  • 4 0
 @sjma: oh but that's part of the enjoyment! like knowing you are about to see a train wreck. As soon as I saw the title of the episode, I knew they were going to f**k it up royally. Full of cringe, was not disappointed. I don't believe that was the first time the show did something like that
  • 4 0
 Bake off goes hard
  • 1 0
 Did you watch the same thing we did? The grind, the moto heel clicks, and the continued evolution of bar spins/tail whips are not a surprise to you?
  • 29 0
 My Pizza here yet?
  • 16 0
 what we really want to know is how the pizza scored...
  • 21 1
 I think the frustration over scores and the fact Godziek was such a fan favourite reflects a divergence between how the event is judged and what the fans feel the “spirit” of Rampage is. To me, (and most PB commenters) it seems like the spirit of Rampage is about amplitude. Huge step downs and drops are what people think of when they think of Rampage, so I think fans get frustrated when someone puts down a run that embodies that “amplitude first” approach, like Godziek, and then gets out scored by someone that puts down an incredibly technical and difficult run, but one that is more slopestyle influenced. I don’t know the breakdown of the scoring categories, but perhaps weighting amplitude more heavily would move the scoring in the direction fans would like to see?
  • 62 2
 Rheeder's top drop was more technical than anything Godziek did, Rheeder's tricks were harder than Godziek's, and Rheeder's step up onto the ridge (that he tailwhipped) wasn't *that* much smaller than the canyon gap.

Don't get me wrong, Godziek's run was completely insane. But he wasn't robbed.
  • 22 1
 @toast2266: I second you on that... The one foot can backflip, to landing on a rigde to 50+ foot tailwhip was a huge moove. And the top of his line was mean. As Godziek was awesome, I believe Rheeder bested him.
  • 8 1
 @Vraiphil: Agreed. Godziek had a great run, but it was the most slopestyle-like run of all of them. He didn't have any big mountain chutes or tech, just big tricks. He had the best Rampage moment probably with the step down 3 to canyon gap flip, but his run in general was kinda big polished jumps more than most.
  • 6 2
 To be honest after the previews of each line and rider you knew what will happen. Godzieks run with the 360 entry to the canyon was like wtf surprise
  • 1 0
 100%
  • 5 1
 @toast2266: thank you for articulating this so well to PB users.
  • 22 3
 I'm not sure what T-Mac is bitching about. They're clearly sticking to the spirit of event with 10 minute rider introductions and 45 minute production holds. Would it still be Rampage without the interference of corporate execs?
  • 6 0
 Looks like we found the guy who can’t bake a perfect crumpet
  • 2 0
 I almost downvoted but fortunately I can read complete sentences. LOL!
  • 18 1
 Watching the judges all talk about the run and scores before they actually even scored it was a glimpse into exactly what is wrong. I have never seen that before in any judged event.
  • 18 0
 ESPN ruins shit like this. So does Selema Masakela. Shoutout to Marky and the hidden rail lol
  • 11 0
 I’ve watched Sal present so many bike related events over the years and he still knows absolutely nothing about it. He must have the single best contract in action sports.
  • 3 1
 Cam should be solo commentator. We need to have a pinkbike vote. The mtbers need to speak up. It’s lit sport. This corporate bs is killing it!
  • 3 0
 Rogaktin, Tippie commenting next to Cam (hero) with 'on the scene' check-ins from people like Ryan Radriguez etc.
  • 3 0
 I credit Salema with making an “action sports” career out of nothing. However, he has no business calling rampage. They’re trying to turn rampage into X-games and it isn’t working.
  • 2 0
 Cam is a terrible commentator as well! It was telling when they brought in Rogatkin to say a few words and they acknowledged that in 30 seconds he was better than their entire broadcast.

No hate for Cam or his riding, he's just NOT a good talking head. Pairing him with Sal was painful.

+1 for Rogatkin and Ryan Radriguez as RBR commentators going forward.
  • 13 0
 another thing: camera angle sucked. We missed multiple sections on multiple runs. Half of Dylan's run was masked. It's not like they didnt knew where he was goring, there's a 3D map of his run. and no drone footage?
  • 1 0
 no still shots either? it was wank with the bad camera work not showing steepness/size.
  • 2 0
 @SixxerBikes: They did have a large drone there, it's clearly visible in a few helicopter shots, but I don't recall seeing any footage from it. It's possible it was on a closed loop for the judges to watch, maybe because the quality isn't high enough for the TV stream or it's buggy or something.

IMO if they have a drone filming things, I'd enjoy it better to just have only drone footage over one shot than switching camera angles. It'd be easier to do logistically too, and then they could use the other cameras between runs.
  • 1 1
 literally three drones GPS tracking a rider down the hill...already a thing.
  • 13 1
 nobody cares about behind the scenes stuff, athlete profiles or anything else extra. Show us the runs, keep the boys moving. Judging should be done hot seat style. No scoring. Overall impression of the run. Just rank one above the other ones. It's pretty easy. Would be sick to see a raw edition where the athletes try to hit raw features like the 1st rampage.
  • 1 0
 Except it wouldn't be sick cos riders would be blowing up left and right, way more dangerous than current. Major limit on useable landscape to get riders down top to bottom cos a lot of the terrain is only rideable due to the digging. Drops would end up being 15-20ft max as you couldn't ride out unpacked landings and the riding would look pathetic in comparison. People think they want to see old school Rampage until they realise it's a massive step backwards in the sport and far more sketchy than what we have now
  • 10 0
 We also learned - again - that Sal Masakela - cool as he may be, should not be co-hosting Rampage. Why was Eliot, Tracy / Emilie (any actual former or current rider) or even Jackson not co-hosting? I just don't get it. Sal was a classic skate/snowboarder/surfer, is a great guy, homey of homies, and he's got a great host voice - but he just doesn't have any substance whatsoever on riders or riding...he's just good at making generic 'rad' comments. Even my fam, who knows nothing about Sal, picked up on his audio fields of popcorn & cotton candy as he offered zero upon zero insight on the riders - the whole show started to become a joke of what empty comment was coming next. Sal's awesome, but for MTB he's only got generic filler to offer...would be better to have someone commenting who's an insider (like Cam). Better yet - Warner. He's on staff ain't he?
  • 5 0
 Even Sal agrees with you, both he and Cam kept reiterating how Rogatkin should have joined them earlier in the booth and was welcome to stay as long as he liked
  • 3 0
 ouchies
  • 3 0
 @kjjohnson: Where do I add the hi-5 / crying face emojis...that's hilarious, good insight. I grew up watching Sal - awesome dude - just wrong guy for this job. Snow, skate, surf - totally fine. MTB: Meh Masekela.
  • 9 0
 The best way to pre-empt scoring debates would be for Rampage judges to publish the "grading scale" they purportedly have in place *prior to the event* for both fans and athletes: e.g. "50pts for basic top to bottom run, no tricks," "+5pts for tailwhip on large feature," of "+3pts for backflip on large feature." There would still be debate over relative value of one trick over another, but if the simple math becomes transparent, then both fans and athletes can add up the points for the 8 tricks in Godziek's run, and accept that according to rules, his run was worth more or less than the competition.
  • 9 5
 So basically turn Rampage into Olympic figure skating? f*ck that.

Maybe we should get 5 guys who have long and well respected careers in freeriding who know exactly what's hard to ride. And then lets get those 5 guys to walk around the site and see for themselves the drops and jumps that are getting hit, so they have a good perspective on the lines. And then let's leave it to those 5 guys to make the call on which run is the best, since those guys know better than pretty much anyone else which of the runs is the most difficult and should score the highest.
  • 4 1
 @toast2266: I do find it kind humorous, but little frustrating, that each year I see some comments about how "these judges don't know what they are doing". I think it would be very hard to find another group of people more qualified to judge rampage that the ones they have in the booth (bender, berrecloth, jameson, spangler, and watts). Everyone one of them has been at rampage before. The only way to get a better group of judges is pick the current group of rampage riders (or more recently were at rampage).

That said, I do think the riders (and fans) would appreciate to get some additional explanation for the scoring. Maybe show the individual scores for each judged category, to show how each score was built. That way riders could see that their score was lower because they didn't do very big drops even though their tricks were rad.
  • 7 0
 @vesania: I did see some comments from Berrecloth on social media where he responded to questions about the judging. For example, someone asked him about Lacondeguy being underscored, and Berrecloth basically said that he didn't have a single drop over 20' in his line.
  • 4 0
 @toast2266: Yep. I wonder if that kind of info could be included with the scoring so riders could see that when they get their score.
  • 6 0
 @toast2266: Here's the thing: they already have a scoring rubric. It already is just like any other judged freestyle sport including (gulp!) figure skating: Rampage is just losing in the court of public opinion by not being transparent, so the simple answer is to just publish the rubric they already use to demonstrate that the judging process is clear, objective, & reproducible. Of course the judges should calculate a different baseline point value for each rider's line: they do and always have. TvS's trickless run did in fact reveal that a run down the steepest, gnarliest part of the venue w/ big drops was worth ~65-70 points, plus a few bonus points for speed & control. Just publish the breakdown, and then it will be clear whether Rheeder won by virtue of the difficulty of his line, because tailwhips trump 360s on the points scale, or possibly both.
  • 1 1
 How about 50% judges score and 50% actual live onsite fans & digital fan scores (even just to see what that looks like). I have my fave riders but if they don't produce, I'm not Sieg-Heiling them so they can win...they gotta earn it. I get that the judges do have criteria and its not as willy nilly as any of us think - but they actually do not rep the fans watching at all and in the end, when 95% of us don't agree - we question their process & judgement.
  • 2 1
 @toast2266: There is far more going on w/ judges than what we see - I'll give them credit for that but using Berrecloth's logic: only 2 riders did 75 foot canyon jumps, one via backflip. That move alone would notch any of the other riders that didn't do it but they didn't apply that logic - that would've put Godz 1st handily. Rheeder & Sem are as balls as it gets, esp Rheeder coming of a major injuiry but both of their runs were pretty similar compared to a 75 ft canyon backflip...nothing even came close to that.
  • 8 0
 I 100% Agree with Tyler McCaul and reading this thread, you get the impression that most of the futzing around was so that ESPN+ could have a lot of ads. it was actually very odd to watch it on RedBull TV as they seemed to be delaying a lot in between each rider, for no reason. That certainly supports the assertion that ESPN is ruining everything. If they'd run through the riders quickly, and done Round 2 right away, it not only would have got the whole thing done before the wind came up but it would have given the even a lot more overall energy. There was some comment in earlier threads here about this year's event feeling flat. I'm sure the long delays between riders had quite a bit to do with that.
  • 8 0
 Much respect to TMac for being brutally honest. It really sounds like the bigwigs at ESPN valued their TV product over the riders' safety and the actual riding. And with the benefit of hindsight, that production decision was a lose-lose-lose (to ESPN, the riders, and the fans).
  • 10 2
 4.2. Technical lines at the top were not rewarded with the scoring (Lacondeguy, Sorge, Zink, Storch) unless their was a trick involved (Semenuk).
  • 6 0
 These line previews and other bs before every run just don't make the event any more enjoyable to watch, imo. I long for the days when you saw the rider dropping in and then discovered his line, dropping your jaw, going woooaaah. That was tense live broadcasting. This was just so overproduced. The dubbing of Reed's run was quite nice, although I doubt I wanna hear any such footage during a harsh wipe-out.
  • 6 0
 As someone who was there I can tell you Tyler was dead on, We all knew the forecast wasn't good, they moved up the start 30 minutes because of that. This was my second Rampage and the dead time between runs was worse then in '19, it really kills the buzz in the venue when everyone just stands around waiting so long for a rider to drop. I've never understood why they can't watch all the runs then give scores. They even tell you that the first rider gets sacrificed to "set the bar" so whoever goes first will never win... It was painfully obvious to everyone by the time Semenuck finished that second runs weren't going to happen. People were leaving before it was announced. I feel terrible for the riders and diggers who spend so much time and effort to make this happen only to get cut short because of TV. Why not just run the event, don't show it live and then edit it after, the number one rule should be, get it done before the afternoon winds come (hint... they come in the afternoon every day!) Also as someone who flew across the country to see it I'd like to get my money's worth and get two runs from everyone, I hope Tyler speaking out will be heard and lead to changes that will benefit the riders, If guys are happy with one run so be it but there are a lot that want to clean up their first run and should be given that opportunity
  • 3 0
 Right there with you. Especially for an event like this, where the whole thing rests at the whims of the weather and wind and diggers put in barely fathomable amounts of work to build the lines, the event needs to come first and coverage second. They're running this backwards, and it not only ruins the event, but runs the risk of putting someone in serious danger.

What happens if the wind picks up next year, someone really wants their second run, and they drop in and get injured or die due to a gust of wind? Do you think ESPN would own up to the fact that running the event on a timetable centered around the weather and the event, not TV ads and money, could prevent something like that?
  • 2 0
 @aharms: not-so-fun fact - ESPN doesn't give a damn about the event or the riders except to the extent that they all constitute a collective cash cow for their broadcast. If a rider was seriously injured or died during the event, I'd bet my bank account that the following year they'd advertise it as "a literal life or death struggle against the elements!" not adding that the fight against the elements is a direct result of their greed and incompetence in drawing out the event as long as possible for those sweet, sweet advertising dollars.

Between the inexplicably terrible judging, the painfully bland/generic commentating, the over-the-top filler material (where the graphic designer was probably paid more than any rider!), and the fact that this all contributed to a 4 hour event where the riders didn't even get their 2nd run.... This RBR was a total joke. I REALLY hope that there are some scathing conversations being had between the riders, Redbull, and ESPN. I'd be overjoyed to see the riders all boycott the official event next year and do it their way. They could EASILY negotiate an outside company to run the event without all of this bs attached.
  • 6 0
 TV filler content should be held for actual wind and/or other course holds. Let the riders ride!
The show is way too long as it is anyway. Long format is not how most people digest content, as we know from social media.
  • 4 0
 The longer the format is, the more ads you can put in it!
  • 4 0
 So much this, all the BS in between each run killed the event for me...it was almost boring to watch! Took way too long for just a few riders to get their runs....gotta tighten that up! Between waiting for the judges and the rider bio's it was too much.
  • 5 0
 A couple of tweaks that need to be done IMO:

1. Rest day (mandatory) ahead of the finals. All the dudes seemed so tired
2. 2 day event (kinda)...key is give people 2 runs...maybe its like 2 runs scheduled each day till 2 runs happen
3. Keep the judges...but riders also do a vote then some sort of combination of those two takes the win.
  • 3 0
 100% agree - these guys are burnt from digging and could use a rest day (would lead to less injuries as well). Should also be subject to wind holds - meaning a hold and will resume with all runs having to be complete even if it is the next morning.
  • 2 0
 @Meettaco: they do have mandatory rest days. It just not the day before the event. I would assume this was put in place with rider input so I’m not going to question which days they pick.
  • 2 0
 None of the riders want to do those runs more than they absolutely have to, there's no way they'll be on board with extending the event over multiple days until they've all completed 2 runs. There's a reason so many opt out of 2nd runs in the first place. The back up day was forecast to be far worse wind wise than the contest day so it couldn't have gone much better than it did aside from the extended broadcast filler
  • 9 1
 should just hire the joyride judges...
  • 5 0
 Once Sal and Tina appear you know who the event is for. Judging could be fixed by making it a peer judged event, or at least giving the riders the opportunity to weigh in on each others’ lines
  • 2 3
 correct, for blind vaccine consumers Smile
  • 4 0
 Question's..
How many helicopters were in the air filming?
How long can a heli fly before getting fuel?
Can they hover for 4 hours?
How long do they need to refuel and be back on site?
How much is it to have one or many Helicopters filming?

Doesn't Redbull sponsor professional drone pilot's/team's that can film each rider?
  • 4 0
 There were two helicopters which would disappear every so often so possibly fueling. Also one large drone doing some filming that I noticed.
  • 3 0
 I'd like to see categories with the judging:

Style (how it looks and feels and flows)
Execution / quality (how well things were landed clean, on line, etc)
Innovation (new, innovative...like the grind)
Go big (big sends)

Weight those however you'd like but I'd love to see Style right up there with the other ones....it's highly qualitative and hard to judge, but it's important and I think it's overlooked at times!
  • 8 0
 Freeride world tour does this, with the categories being:
- Line choice
- Air & Style
- Fluidity
- Control
- Technique

I think how the judging works for those events is really applicable to Rampage.
  • 2 0
 Why not have all the riders judge everyone's run.
  • 1 0
 I think the best option is to do away with the "overall ranking". Just have either a single prize for the best rider in a category, or a podium for each category.
  • 2 0
 @MrDiamondDave: Not to say that it's a bad idea--I don't care to predict how it would actually play out--but, since you asked "why?", that could raise the risk of it turning into a popularity contest.
  • 1 0
 @evanlitt: cool - yeah, very sim concept....do they have a panel of judges like Rampage?
  • 3 0
 @RadBartTaylor: It's a panel of 4 that don't communicate when scoring, then a head judge who overviews the scores to ensure consistency. Notes by individual judges are compared if there are inconsistencies with the scoring. There is a good article on TGR about the process: www.tetongravity.com/story/ski/what-goes-into-a-freeride-world-tour-score
  • 5 2
 Can some boutique manufacturer please just release a new headset-routed, press-fit BB, $18,000, high-pivot, 50lb XC 'race' e-bike with an SLX groupset, non-Factory suspension and EXO casing tires so we have something new to bitch about???
  • 4 0
 lol - ...its only a matter of time
  • 1 2
 hey at least you have the chance of manufacturing a perfectly round BB shell with press-fit designs..long as tolerances are up to snuff, PF is a better option vs threaded to get perfectly aligned bearings on your crank spindle. Gluing a metal BSA threaded shell into a likely misaligned frame hole gives you utterly no room to correct the fit with tools after the fact.
  • 1 0
 @SixxerBikes: I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

... do you know what a thread guiding taper is?
  • 1 0
 @DH17MTB: if they tapped the treads one at a time on a highly accurate honing rig...but pf30 shells are more repeatable to make perfect. Trust me
  • 2 0
 @SixxerBikes: I'm saying that in the engineering world no one relies on the actual threads for accurate positioning of a cylinder. I'm talking about a taper that is separate from the threads, like the spindle on every mill made in the last 100 years.
  • 7 0
 Why the hell wasn't Warner commentating
  • 3 0
 Imagine how good that would be!!
  • 3 0
 Riding is rad, but format and scoring new to change. That may mean a different venue, but 30 minutes of action and hours of bad commentary make for meh watching.

Scoring needs to be more consistent/uniform.

Or-no scores, just the radness!!
  • 6 1
 Maybe rampage should be a two day event with one run per day, this would allow us to get two scoring runs.
  • 3 0
 They should look towards how the Freeride World Tour (skiing & snowboarding) events are judged, up until last season it was a one run deal and the judging generally aligned with popular opinion.
  • 1 0
 I think a head to head format like in the natural selection tour would be a cool format. Have 4-5 lines and each round rides that set of lines.
  • 1 0
 @Jordanh604: Not really feasible for each rider to ride 4-5 lines, considering their build crews spend a WEEK on their own line to get it how they want it.
  • 1 0
 @DH17MTB: I can certainly appreciate that. But even just adopting the head to head format I think would be awesome. Even if they kept riding their one line or maybe the venue already has rough cut premade lines instead of the massive manicured lines that every seems to hate.
  • 5 0
 Rampage is bad ass to watch. WC is exciting to watch and no opinions. WC for the win.
  • 5 0
 More riding, less talking and a media ban before the event. That would be great!
  • 1 0
 oddly enough, this^
  • 6 0
 Andreu Lacondeguy got robbed
  • 8 2
 When I saw the judges eating pizza while scoring it was over for me.
  • 4 1
 Also a Take Away….
the “Guess the Winners” and receive a Rockshox fork contest is a fabrication and a Hoax. Nobody is ever announced as a winner so it is safe to assume nobody wins anything. It is a
#HoaxContest
  • 2 0
 1. Put all the money and focus on build week - this is the real show
2. Get rid of the non-mountain biker commentators - so freakin' annoying
3. Turn off the pressure cooker - make it a jam format.
4. Turn off the circus/spectacle - give it back to mountain biking
  • 2 0
 I 1000% agree with Tyler. His comments are spot on - I did a watch party for this event, and we were sitting around after the first runs like "wtf is happening, why is nobody dropping?" Super stupid. The event needs to come first, and coverage second.

Also 26 aint dead.
  • 4 0
 Just this year they learned that weather holds and TV don't work? Who'd a thunk it...
  • 2 0
 ur kinda optimistic did 'they' learn anything
  • 1 0
 Man it's like the Monday Blues now that Rampage is over. Are there any more mtb events this year? Once a year event and the wind cancels the second half. Still an awesome Rampage, been going back and watching some of the former events like 2013 and 2019.
  • 4 0
 Crankworx Finale in Rotorua
  • 1 0
 Honestly seems like Rampage needs a serious shake up in how its done. The long rider intro videos are great but lets just do them before the event in a pre-show. Wind is obviously an issue so getting people down the mountain in short weather windows is key, especially to make sure they get at least two runs each.

As far as judging goes, there seems to be a lot of debate about the "spirit of rampage", and IMO, the rightful stewardship of the spirit of rampage belongs to the riders. So, let them do the judging. Riders do their runs, then after the riders get together at the end, maybe watch a few replays of top runs, and pick the top three. Nobody understands the difficulty of the course and its features than the people who just competed on it.
  • 2 0
 If you watch things like F1 they do all the pre-race vids interviews etc all before the green flag drops. They should do the same. 30 minutes of BS/interviews etc then just all competition with just replays between and a shorter time for judges to place scores.
  • 1 0
 Who remembers Go-Rides movie, Third Down? V-Dub did a Trials style one wheel drop in on his Ellsworth Dare in that area out there in UT. More Trials style drop ins needed. Dangerous as all heck but would be awesome to see a 2 ledge flat drop to an area never touched before.
  • 2 0
 Imagine up top knowing your going to hit the biggest nastiness lines of your life . Wind is calm. Wait we can t get the camera working . Total BS . When the rider is ready . Go time .
  • 3 0
 One thing we learned from Ramapge 2022.... The whole event needs a restructure, from the top down... This year, felt stale and boring.....
  • 1 0
 Why does it have to be live? If they film just 16 riders making 1 run, then get back up to the top and throw down another one, it would probably take 2 hours. Then they could delay the broadcast and stretch it out all they want. Judges need to fake it, or simply not be at the event. Seems like everybody could win.
  • 1 0
 I thought the production was slow. Judges took forever to get scores in, all the extra graphics pre run are not that interesting and just plain took a while to get to the next run. Sounds like guys wanted to keep things moving to beat the wind, and very unfortunate that they were not able to due to the rigid tv structure.
  • 2 1
 Could write a book on how Stale and Boring Rampage has become. I have attended 7 Rampages in person and have been very disappointed in the last few. Will always support the riders and their talent and abilities. Will not be watching another Rampage unless there are major changes. Watching the event now is very irritating. Sorry to see the downfall of such a great FREERIDE event.
  • 2 1
 6. the pinkbike forum consists to a large extent of moaners who most likely have difficulties doing a decent bunny hop, but who are upset about the greatest freeriders on the planet for allegedly turning the red bull rampage into a slopestyle competition...
  • 2 1
 Sorry to shoot down your comment. Been racing Expert DH for 27 years. Have actually won a few bunny hop contest at festivals over the years. Have seen and ridden with some of the greatest Freeriders ever. If I want to see Slopestyle I watch Crankworx. Destorying the landscape to build a landing 100 ft long is not freeride.
  • 1 0
 As a spectator, I wish there was less time between runs, maybe a little background on who each rider was (heard this from co workers), and better viewing spots. I was on the left side of the canyon and couldn't see many of the riders until they got towards the bottom.
  • 2 1
 Get rid of espn+. Completely restructure judging, there were a few big mountain runs that were terribly underscored. Rampage roots are big mountain free ride, not slope style. Now don’t get me wrong, tail whips down 50 foot drops is insane but I personally, and many others, prefer the technicality and risk of the big mountain lines. Vibes were different this year, didn’t feel the same as normal rampage. Zink even said it in his series that something was off.
  • 1 0
 SELLLLLLLLLL OUUUUUUUUUTS!!!! This shit is getting ridiculous.
True or false- diggers have to pay for an event T-shirt
True or false- after brown bag lunches all week, only one of the diggers gets to eat the catered food when it shows up (team manager).
Tue or false- it’s all about the Benjamin’s baby
  • 5 0
 Cam Zink loves his kids!
  • 1 1
 and is defiantly kinda scared of his stern, but fair wife..? ha
  • 4 1
 Judging needs more transparency. Why did Szymon not win? Why was Andreu scored so low?
  • 4 0
 More info and deep dives into the chainstays of the bikes.
  • 2 0
 wheel size should be brought into question as well.
  • 1 0
 Anyone standing over by the canyon gap and the lilypad run in knows how short the landing for Godziek's 3 into the gnarliest run in to the canyon gap. I hiked it after the event and its almost impossible to walk up.
  • 1 0
 May be a minority opinion but I thought the augmented reality line previews were cool and are unfairly getting blamed for the drawn-out nature of the contest. They each took, what, 30 seconds?
  • 4 1
 "Judging needs reworking" I feel like that has been said every year.
  • 3 0
 Better to be last place than in the hospital.
  • 1 0
 Rule #1: Don't die.
Rule #2: Have fun!

In that order.
  • 1 0
 Maybe pursuing a degree in outdoor program administration and coming at the bro-brah cast of red bull from that angle will create change quicker and with more Authority!
  • 5 3
 Because grinds are such a huge, integral, historic part of mountain biking. -said no one, ever.
  • 2 1
 I thought it was doing something difficult and new? Events like this are an opportunity for the athletes to push themselves and the sport to new heights. Unless you think doing a rail grind into a giant drop is too easy for rampage?
  • 2 0
 it was sick, plus he BMX tucked no'd the fucking canyon gap. Dude...its all so real
  • 2 0
 @aharms: I didn’t really like the grind. It was kind of silly. I like the street stufff Stark does, but that’s not what Rampage is.
  • 1 0
 @sino428: That's fair, it definitely isn't very freeride. I personally like the fusion of freeride and street riding - wouldn't want to see everyone doing that, but I thought it was a cool idea!
  • 2 1
 No more freeride on Rampage,boys are awesome but I dont want to watch slopestyle bikepark runs(just few riders went into the chute) Future for freeride is tailwhip??? Frown
  • 4 0
 26 ain't dead.
  • 3 0
 Were the judges scoring the pizza or the riders?
  • 4 3
 What we want is a freeride event. 1 day dig only. Maybe engage the audience with vote in judging.
  • 2 1
 I think it would be really cool if they did an additional event where they just scratched their lines down the hill. It would essentially be just like the original few rampages. There would only be much smaller drops/jumps, many more crashes/washouts, and few tricks, but it would very raw and so awesome. I actually don't think any of the riders at rampage (and most fans) would care for rampage to be changed to to a 1 dig day event though. The riders (and fans) want to be doing massive drops/jumps, which I will happily watch.
  • 1 0
 "Semenuk brought back the return of the single crown whilst Rheeder extended the continuation of Canadian wins"
  • 5 7
 Probably the unpopular take here but I think for the most part the judging is fine. I think the reason it always feels like someone is robbed is because the judges are focusing on the overall run and the fans often times focus on one standout element of a run.

The saying "jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind here. Often some of the higher scoring and even winning runs aren't mind blowing (Sorge's runs come to mind), but they have all the elements. They don't have the biggest drop, or the craziest tricks, etc but have the full combination of smoothness, style, tricks, amplitude etc. Although its the best all around run, it can sometimes seem a little underwhelming because it doesn't have that one crazy mind blowing element or feature. But that doesn't mean its not the best run.
  • 1 0
 That's a hot take, but I don't disagree with you. Someone else said that the scoring elements should maybe be weighted differently, with amplitude accounting for more, because amplitude is the true spirit of rampage. I feel like the judges and the fans pretty much always come to a different conclusion, and that's fine - the judges are there to assess all the run elements and not single out that one feature that the fans might latch on to. The main thing that the judging doesn't really capture in my mind is the risk and consequence factor. It seems to me like a jump or drop could be across a canyon or a giant table and the score would be the same. I think that's part of why Godziek's run stuck out so much - if any part of that canyon gap went wrong the consequences would be higher than many other features on the mountain. Of course, it's all high consequence, especially the drops, but that gap is a different level of risky.
  • 1 0
 2day contest have a run each morning..wind problem solved..and there won't be any excuses for not doing a second run
  • 2 0
 this reminds me to cancel my one day use of ESPN+
  • 2 0
 We also need fresh new venue. Year one was always the best. Raw freeride.
  • 4 3
 Ahh Rampage week AKA the Playa haters ball of pinkbike comments. Hate Hate Hate Hate Hate
  • 2 0
 Username checks out...
  • 1 0
 Came here to say I'm not watching anything after that strange watching! made me lose all interest of it all!
  • 2 1
 that manual beside that tiny flat bar was hella goofy. Leave that shit at the landfill site
  • 2 0
 Did we ever learn what kind of pizza that was?
  • 1 0
 Hope you skipped skipped skipped cuz this whole production was a S*** S***. No amount of lipstick BS can say otherwise.
  • 1 0
 They should add a spectator score to the judges scores.
  • 1 0
 The athletes deserve gladiator level !! Ace of Steep !
  • 1 0
 Anytime corporations get involved, this what happens! Not surprised....
  • 2 1
 Do we talk about judges and their pizzas ?
  • 1 1
 I literally a pizza party to watch rampage this year and that was a super weird thing to see
  • 1 0
 @aharms: So weird that people would have some lunch while they work...
  • 1 0
 @Joyrode: Yeah, I guess looking back now it's not really that weird lol
  • 2 1
 I'd watch RedBull Hardline over Rampage any day.





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