Flat Pedals Win Medals & 3 More Things We Learned from the Maydena Enduro World Cup 2023

 Tazm Loc

 FLAT MEDALS WIN PEDALS

 @DJ21111111: this is amazing news! I have loads of flat medals and need some new pedals, where do I enter?

 Why you so fly?

 I second this message. Best flat pedal on the market.

 I ride Scarabs for pretty long time and I am fine with them as well. On the lower price its One up with those composite ones which suits me

 How they compare to vaults? I love the vault feel and grip (concave with massive pins) but sick of constant bushing swaps.

 @dirtyburger: They are not nearly as concave as Vaults. In fact, they're nearly flat in the middle. That said, they're not convex, you cannot feel the spindle area above the outside of the pedal.

Compared to my wife's Vaults, I have more miles on the Dagga with not one rebuild. I rebuilt her Vault's once with half the miles.

 @dirtyburger: I feel tmacs are just bigger and better versions of vaults. (I ride them both)

 Agreed. Dagga on all the bikes...just works. Though the Tenent pedals looks good too.

 @adrennan: I absolutely love mine. All time favorite pedal

 10000% Dagga's are the King of flats \m/

 ...100% Agree - Chromag Dagga's are the greatest Pedal of all time, especially in Chrome - why would you ride anything else?

 @kyleluvsdh: raceface atlas pedals are pretty amazing as well

 @skinuts: except the bearings that last 3 months

 @wburnes: had and got rid of concave pedals like t-macs, burgtecs and vaults. Catalysts are the only pedal that makes sense.

 @dirtyburger: More grip than the vaults for sure, like the other commenter said they aren't quite as concave but the grip is the best of any pedal i've used out of the oneups, raceface atlas, tmacs, vaults, and chesters. Haven't had to do a rebuild on them yet.

 Big up for the Daggas.

 @CassetteCrusher: Those have literally the worst pins . Try Aussieman Chris Kovarik's Dagga.. They're far superior to the Titan 9. Sorry not sorry. Love ya though

 @kyleluvsdh: titans have options for pins in steel and alloy and different lengths, also titanium axles, full bearings and made in Germany so the build quality is unmatched
But yeah looking at those dagga’s seems like their mission was to stick your shoe to the pedal permanently, but my shins ache just looking at them
So many good pedal options these days for sure

 Often people forget that the NukeProof Horizon pedals have spacers on the pins & if you remove them, they are extra long like the Daggas.

They've been that way for a long time too. But it's one of those things in the features that goes unnoticed b/c they aren't photographed with the mega pins.

For DH and Enduro Racing (riding maybe not so much) all the World Cup pros on flats run longer pins than people realize. My foot isn't big enough to justify the Dagga's wide platform. But would love to try them and Horizon's back to back tall pins and all on my DH bike.

 @CassetteCrusher: Shin pads are a must. They're the closest you'll get to being clipped in on a flat pedal, when you're in you're in. Still love ya

 The new RaceFace Atlas has been blowing my mind for the past year. This is coming from a previous TMac, Vault, and Dagga user.

 They’re also bomb proof. Every time I think “surely they need servicing,“ I pull the spindle out and see a perfectly healthy layer of still translucent green factory grease on them. I do nothing, reassemble, and keep riding.

 Deftraps

 @kyleluvsdh: we’re cool

 @blowmyfuse: Older nukeproof pedals, the solid af ones from when Sam was riding DH on them. They grip like all hell and had really long pins in them. I run the new ones now and they're great too but not quite as nice as the old ones. I don't like these pedals like daggas that have the corners cut in, less surface area for control, atleast thats how it feels to to me.

 @wburnes: Too narrow for me

 @kyleluvsdh: 10000%? Why not 100000000%? This is F from maths young man, go and learn using percentages properly!

 I have Dagga’s but Deity Composite for the win

 @bikes-arent-real: true. My Horizons don't have the nip/tuck corners of the latest "Enduro" version mimicking JC's grind down mod.

I just assumed they kept the standard Horizon and the Enduro w/ cut corners was an addition.

Had mine for over 3 years & haven't touched the axles. They don't wobble, so I'm not looking in there.

 @bikes-arent-real: yeah, they still make the ones I have, the DH model.

us.nukeproof.com/products/horizon-pro-downhill-flat-pedals

us.nukeproof.com/products/horizon-pro-sam-hill-enduro-pedals

 @gooral: you might like the XL model

 @wburnes: looked at them, but too still too narrow. I have a wide stance, t-macs work best for me. Pedals are really personal thing, aren't they?

 @dirtyburger: scarabs have a similar feel to vaults. I’ve had a pair I’ve ridden for 3 seasons, haven’t touched the bushings and they feel just as good as the new ones I just bought for my other bike.

 @skinuts: the bushings don’t hold up as well though

 @cakelly4: Chromag pedals are the best when it comes to longevity

 In process of swamping all bikes to Daggas..... Anyone wanna buy 3 sets of stamp 7s hahaha

 @dirtyburger: be got 2 sets of vaults, one set is (roughly) 6 years old, the other is 2 years old.

6 year old set have had 1 full rebuild, they both benefit from the occasional clean and re-greasing that takes 10 minutes or so.

 @deco1: Ha! not sure if this is a joke or not. Maydena is world class.

 @deco1: Its the style they have gone for - steep, technical and raw trails. Lots of good flow or XC in other parts of Australia if that's what you're into. Fair to say Maydena isn't for everyone or every skill level.

 @FoesKnows: Better live coverage is a positive at least! Youre right though Maydena was built within working forests so have to expect surrounding areas will be logged at some stage. Derby has had similar problems also. Forestry is an important industry in Tasmania but I wish there was a less emotional conversation around what what value can be derived from logging vs tourism/preservation. Or are there alternatives such as selective logging?

 @FoesKnows: Completely lost you with the point you are trying to make here mate

 @tgiblin50: The power of the DH riders has melted my brain. Apologies.

 @tgiblin50: that's what I'm looking for. Tired of machine build trails ..

 Maydena is a cracka park! It's amazing what the team at Maydena has been able to put together over the last 7 years alone, will be amazing to see where it goes in another 7 years time!!

Also on the topic of Tasmanian forestry for anyone who may be interested; the state-run Tasmanian forestry industry is indeed a money-losing entity. Its operations have been subsidised into the billions of dollars over the past couple decades, essentially making it a work-for-the-dol style scheme where Australian tax-payers are the main thing keeping the operations going and forestry workers employed. This is all the while happening whilst destroying Tasmanian old growth rainforests with clear fell logging practices to primarily produce low-quality timber products such as sawdust, woodchips and pulp.

This is in contrast to another industry that brought 4 billion dollars into Tasmania last year alone (Tourism). Tourism is an industry that also employs regional workers in Tasmania but organically makes a profit. Companies like Maydena Bike Park are an example of sustainable business innovation in a state full of outdated industries that destroy Tasmania's natural assets for short-term gains.

In the case where you have a profit-making tourism business competing for land with a money-losing destructive industry, who can better use the land seems to be black-and-white.

Yes, we need high-quality timber products, yes we need regional jobs, and yes we need to preserve our natural environments for future generations to benefit from and enjoy. However, the current scale and operation style of the Tasmanian forestry industry is not the best way to achieve these needs. Forestry shouldn't be banned outright, there are sustainable ways of utilizing forests for the benefit of society. State-run Tasmanian forestry is nowhere near achieving sustainable practice in its current form.

This is not meant to be a stab at people working in forestry or to promote tourism as a universal solution to replace unsustainable industries. I'm simply trying to illustrate that we need to think of and exercise better ways of managing natural assets like the remaining ancient forests of Tasmania.

Please just keep in mind these things if (and when) you visit Tasmania and places like it so you can truly appreciate the work that goes on behind the scenes to preserve wild places and provide access to them.

Now go ride your bike and enjoy your own natural backyard! Yiew!!

 @CharlieEdis: Fantastic words thanks Charlie. Mature perspectives such as this have been very lacking when it comes to the conversation around forestry in Tasmania. (or anything else affects Tasmanians cough cough cable car.....)

 @CharlieEdis:

Only 52.8 per cent of Tasmanian men and 46.9 per cent of Tasmanian women read at a functional level.

Tasmania's Gross State Product is the lowest per capita, per capita as % of ratio to National, second lowest share of National economy and second lowest growth rate.

Tourism was subsided by Federal debt growth (a cool $1 Trillion) and taxes from other jurisdictions being redistributed to Tasmania, not at the point of consumption through the following mechanisms:
- Tourism Industry Grants, Department of State Growth
- General Grants, Department of State Growth
- Events Grants & Funding, Events Tasmania
- Heritage Grants, Heritage Tasmania
- Business Support, Business Tasmania
- Arts Grants, Arts Tasmania

The GST redistribution for Tasmania, the second largest in the Nation is estimated to be $3,409 million ($3.4 Billion) in GST in 2023-24. This would be an increase of $5 million compared to 2022-23. The change reflects Tasmania’s assessed needs for GST and its share of the growth in the GST pool.

Derby was largely funded through Federal Grants and in 2021 the Federal Minister for Trade, Tourism and Investment, Dan Tehan, confirmed further funds as part of $5.14 million to fund new tourist attractions in Tasmania, including mountain bike trails, rock climbing and farm experiences, to attract more visitors to the island and support local jobs and business opportunities.

Eight tourism projects account for $2.34 million and another $2.8 million is to encourage agricultural businesses to develop unique tourism experiences, such as interactive farm tours, on-farm accommodations and meals, paddock to plate experiences and cooking schools.

So with the GST redistribution from other States to Tasmania and the other Federal Grants, the net impact of Tourism to Tasmania is neutral in the Australian Balance Sheet, using your provided $4Bn contribution.

Forestry in all States largely runs at a loss or just break even. These are State Trading Enterprises, they support Government Priorities initiatives and are run by Governments to deliver jobs and regional outcomes. The primary outcome is access to timber. Timber for modern living, classified as renewable and sustainable in European and American environmental and global energy policy of the IEA, but for Australia its most important contribution is access to cheap lumber for housing framework.

Housing framework and access to timber is critical to the building and construction industry, and so like much of Tasmania, it is subsidies at the State level balance sheet to create jobs in regions and deliver lower priced housing. Lower priced housing benefits the community, next generations and present economic and social fairness.

Community fairness is why it appears as incorrectly stated as a "loss making enterprise" by those opposed to forestry, on land dedicated to forestry. Why else a State with a significant debt, educational and health constraints and challenges would it be run as a loss? Thats fiducial and Government funding misappropriation if true. Because perhaps like the statement around the net benefit of Tourism you quoted, there are other grants, subsidies and considerations in play to consider the totality of the outcome and impact and form an enlightened view of forestry, across the entire supply chain.

The other alternative is of course that housing frameworks could be instead constructed with galvanized metal. Unfortunately, regulation and restriction in the State of Tasmania have made this all bar impossible. Where before the State has a broad and deep tradition of mining, community benefit and flow through processing to deliver community outcomes, these have largely reached their economic lives or for new deposits been deemed socially unacceptable. So, the State will rely on the gratuity of others to talk about their tourism benefits and preservations of natural environments to ride bikes in.

I 'spose the only questions for the other States would be, what could they do with their GST if it was maintained where imposed and deployed in terms of benefit to their natural environments benefit, and what domestic grants and outcome could be deliver to their cycling facilities, considering they have mining, tourism, forestry and are net creditors into this redistribution cycle that when consider all grants and redistribution has significant off balance sheet inputs not recognized as liabilities at the State level?

I think what has been done there is great, and applaud and enjoyed riding and competing in 2017. But if going to consider Forestry and true sustainability for all of community, all the facts need to be considered.

You cant cherry pick Government Services and funding. Its a whole of package.

www.stategrowth.tas.gov.au/ocg/publications/maydena_bike_park2

 Exactly. Let's say, the race has 5 stages, and you win 4 of them by 1 second, but have a crash in the other stage that costs you 1 minute. While your day was ruined with the old system, you'll still get loads of points for the overall with the new system.

 I know the last race of last season was ages ago but Rudeau and Charre won Loudenvielle on flats.

 Interestingyling

 Damn, seems like flat pedal riders are like vegans out here: won't shut up about it, and can't take a joke (rooted in reality). Ride what you like; literally nobody gives a shit.

 I give a shit -Any way flat pedals just look better -Can ride to the shops in ya flip flops -And nothing looks cooler than a racer sliding a corner with his foot out cause he can

 @lwkwafi: you're literally the one who commented about it though? I guess clipped in riders are like non-vegans. Bring up the subject and them hope someone has the opposite opinion so you can moan on the internet from your mom's basement.

 It turns out flat pedals are the first loser

*ducks*

 @CassetteCrusher: Slicing their shin when they get bucked? Also, I can ride whatever I want on my spds to the shop. Life ain't that hard.

 @ruckuswithani: Another person who can't take a joke. I am responding the headline that seemingly omits the fastest races on the day, and making a joke. Jeezus. y'all need to chill. I ride both but primarily race clipped in unless hella muddy.

 Redbull Rampage hello? Sam hill?

 @lwkwafi: I’d rather get whacked in the shin than go down stuck in clips, that shit breaks bones, just don’t wanna get whacked by those dagga’s LOL

 @CassetteCrusher: You figure out how to not whack your shins that much after a few years of it. Only time in the last 5 years I've hit my shins were because I was too lazy to tune my gear so my chain wouldn't slip and I was jibbing while blazed out of my mind.

 @CassetteCrusher: any racer on clips can out a foot out in corners, too.

 @CassetteCrusher: i can do all of those in clipless. it’s called clips with pins in them

 @boozed: "idler pullys drop chains"

*Hides behind ducking boozed*

 Bro... I mean, I have been doing more xc lately but I still have baggy shorts and a visor... It won't happen to me! It can't!

 Don't forget getting hit by a car

 It's not any worse than the outfits the endurobros wear these days. All of them running around dressing like a limp bizkit roadie from 2003.

 A numder of the top DH guys have done Enduro races and struggled to get inside the top 30.

 @panaphonic: Not anymore. As every year progresses need to be more and more a fully disciple rounded athlete to be elite.

 @panaphonic: I reckon some washed up old Downhiller could do EWS and win 3 seasons in a row.

 @bikes-arent-real: Possibly. Does this make or detract the point though?

 @panaphonic: most of them rode in finale just for fun without taking it seriously and even riding blind.
Anyway Voullioz, Tracy, Barel, Hill and Moir won as soon as they rode enduro seriously, almost the same with Rude if you consider he comes from DH. A guy I know had very good results in EWS and struggled to be inside the top 15 on DH french cups.
For the girls I am absolutely sure Aterthon or Nicole would win, they just ride a bike way faster than Isabeau (nothing against her).

 @panaphonic: like Sam Hill?

 @Frank191: wooosh

 Hot take: Dan Booker and Luke Meier-Smith grew up in an era and area in which they were most definitely riding trail/enduro bikes most of the time. It's a combination of their DH competitive drive, that ability to push 110% on a track, and a lifetime of riding trail bikes that helped them to the top of the podium.

Although Troy Brosnan probably has more DH bike time at this point in his life, it's not really surprising he makes a great enduro racer. Looking at his Roots and Rain profile, Brosnan might be the most consistent rider of the last 2 decades, a quality that is essential in enduro.

 I suspect it's because "clipless" doesn't rhyme with "medal" or anything else particularly aspirational. I mean who wants to "drip less" or be "lipless"? God knows I don't want to "rip less".

 @wburnes: How do you deal with not messing up your hands with crashes without gloves? I'd love to avoid the summer gloves tan but road rash on my hands is not fun.

 @wburnes: what are you on about? Clipless pedals are absolutely advantageous for pedalling (no flats in XC), gloves are for crash protection, and jeans are a shortcut to heat stroke where I live. Good luck getting the bike industry to ban clipless based on your self-assured opinions and beliefs!

 @wburnes: I have never read this long of a post with literally every sentence being incorrect.

 @roxtar: Really? You have evidence that clipless is more efficient than flats?

 @wburnes: This has to be the dumbest comment I have ever seen on pinkbike.

 @wburnes: 30 years of clipless riding mixed with a year on platforms. The difference wasn't even close. Peddling, bike handling, jumping, etc. All way better with a solid connection to the bike. The only thing better with platforms is falling.

Arguing about peddling efficiency is really just stupid. Road riders are all about peddling efficiency. Ever see a roadie on platforms?

Arguing that wet sweaty hands are somehow OK for riding is more stupid.

And did you really say that riding in jeans doesn't increase sweating?!

 @roxtar: youtu.be/KUEaN9FKGLE

 @wburnes: This was made by a non-cyclist. His premise is based on pulling up on the pedals. That's not where the efficiency is.
The efficiency comes from spinning fast circles vs pounding the pedals. Cadence and smoothness are vastly improved with clipless pedals.

However, efficiency isn't where the primary advantage is. The main advantage of clipless with mountain biking is the connection to the bike. Things like steering with the hips, jumping without the need to have that toe-up/heel-down thing, smooth cadence while climbing, having the perfect foot placement every time automatically. You mentioned physical issues. Clipless actually allows your knees to be more protected because clipless pedals have float. No float when you're standing on metal pins.

 @wburnes: THe only thing correct in your entire post had to do with entry level riders.
Yes, platform pedals are a must for them. Beginners belong on them.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against platforms. Ride what you want to ride. Just don't say they are in any way superior to clipless. It'd simply not true.

There's a reason everyone applauds those who do well on platforms. They're working with a distinct disadvantage.

 @roxtar: A non cyclist? He's literally a pro cyclist who does gravel and MTB. Everything in your comment is wrong lol

 @wburnes: I stand corrected. I meant the people doing the testing, not the video maker. He is a cycling coach.
However, my point stands. The entire video was about the extra gains from the upstroke, which I agree is minimal.
As I said before, the primary gain in efficiency is from the ability to spin circles with a faster cadence rather than just pounding the pedal up and down. Spinning faster as opposed to pedaling harder. To understand what I'm talking about, get on a trainer and compare platforms and clipless. It'll be very obvious pretty quickly.

By the way, did you bother to watch it to the end? You know, where he talked about the problems with the testing criteria, and where he still recommends clipless due to all the reasons they work better, ie., climbing, cadence, knee issues, etc.

Anyway, I'm sure none of this matters to you. It's painfully obvious that you've never tried clipless and, as such, really is simply babbling bull$hit. You're the kind of person who shouts his completely uninformed opinion regardless of the facts.
As a great man once said, "You can't fix stupid."

 @roxtar: I have tried clipless (carankbrothers mallet, eggbeater, also shimano)

 @roxtar: Also higher cadence isn't better, and if you need clipless to stay on the pedals wuth a high cadence, you need better pedals, better shoes, or better skills.

youtu.be/L6I1z7eyXOI

 @wburnes: Dude, you've convinced me. I've seen the light!!!

Clipless is the devil and you're a genius.

I, along with those 99.99% of professional bike racers, are all just idiots who blindly follow results. We will all probably die in fiery crashes due to our life endangering, slow riding, bad technique creating, inefficient pedals.
Our only hope is that you are successful in getting them banned from racing and eliminated from production before we destroy ourselves.

Godspeed, young man. Godspeed.

 @matyk: in fact its two of them.

 Seems they even removed the Fantasy heading from the top bar. That's a bummer, always looking forward to that one...

 They don't want to deal with giving the winners their prizes at the end of the year.. uhhhh

 B I N G O

 Blood-rare