Slack Randoms: Comparing MTB Prices to Motorcycles, Performance Pee Bottles & More

Nov 5, 2023 at 7:55
by Ed Spratt  
We use Slack as our workplace communication tool at Pinkbike and we have a #randoms channel that we use to share an assortment of videos and stories from all corners of the cycling world and beyond... We thought a couple of the moments from the past week were too good not to share with a wider audience, so here are some of the highlights.




Comparing MTB Prices to Motorcycles


bigquotesRyan F9 and The D.O.D. finally settle the age old debate: why do some mountain bikes cost as much as a brand new motorcycle? Mountain bikes don’t have complicated engines full of small moving parts. Shouldn’t they cost less than motor bikes? FortNine



Performance Pee Bottles

photo

PeeSport’s portable pee bottle is a purpose-built bottle designed to be peed in while outdoors and not near a toilet. The pee bottle uses a collapsible telescopic design allowing a capacity from 240 to 700ml.

The selling points on PeeSport’s website claim it can securely hold up to 4 pees, it's easy to clean in a dishwasher and despite the 'PeeSport' branding the bottle "doesn't look like a container for urine." PeeSport also states that using its pee bottle has an estimated time saving equalling "1 year of commuting to toilets."

You can find out more, if you want to, here.



Matt Jones Races Mad Mike at Hardline


bigquotesThe Red Bull Hardline course is the most difficult downhill mountain bike track in the world. But can Mad Mike get down the same mountain faster in his insane Rumbull race car. This stadium truck is insanely fast with a screaming rotary engine and can hit massive jumps. But can it beat the fastest downhill MTB riders in the world as they take to the Hardline course. Enjoy the flame throwing rotary engine symphony and race to the finish! Matt Jones



Tommy G & Phoebe Gale Shredding Trails In Innsbruck


bigquotesThomas Genon from Belgium and Phoebe Gale from Scotland: two Canyon pro athletes with different backgrounds – 'Tommy G' with his MTB freeride skills, 'Phoebz' with her downhill speed – both sharing the trails at Bikepark Innsbruck, Austria. ‍♂️ Sit back and enjoy.

Situated in the awe-inspiring Austrian Alps, Bikepark Innsbruck boasts an array of exhilarating trails for mountain biking enthusiasts. Thomas Genon and Phoebe Gale take you on a party lap in this second episode of 'CLLCTV Hot Laps'.
Canyon Bicycles



Andorra DH Laps with Jack Moir


bigquotesMoi Moi TV - Andorra Lapping POV

Getting in some training laps during the Andorra DH World Cup in preparation for the Loudenvielle World Cup the following week. Good morning on the hill on super dusty trails!
Jack Moir



Power - The Story of Brad Simms




Crushing Dynamite with a Hydraulic Press





Author Info:
edspratt avatar

Member since Mar 16, 2017
2,973 articles

212 Comments
  • 195 3
 Perfect for dishwasher, amazing. You can also just pee straight in the dishwasher
  • 17 4
 Where’s the field video?
  • 5 1
 Also helps with that baked on grease.
  • 22 1
 It's all pipes
  • 18 2
 I have an business idea.. how about poo bottle while we're at it?
  • 30 0
 Pros:
- saves time not walking to the toilet

Cons:
- fits in any water bottle holder
- holds 4 pees
- doesn't look like a container for urine
- easily mistaken for a water bottle
  • 4 0
 just like my uncle would do when he was super wasted
  • 6 0
 @bearstearns: I have a "tent urinal" for camping. It's a Nalgene with strips of grip tape all around it, so even in the dark, I can tell if apart from my water bottle.
  • 2 0
 So, is that pee bottle a permanent attachment to the crotch while riding? Big Grin
  • 168 3
 That pee bottle is the perfect accessory for your completely impractical overland rooftop tent.
  • 38 0
 You just insulted 3/4 of the North Shore Taco Enduro Bro’s. Dem’ fighting words.
  • 28 0
 Its amazing how many men don't realize this is a product for women. Its even more amazing how the inventor of the pee bottle saw the various pee funnels available on the market and thought plugging the other end and forcing women to carry their piss was an improvement.
  • 11 0
 Why would you say something so true and yet so controversial?
  • 116 0
 Buying the pee bottle for my local amazon delivery driver for Christmas
  • 8 1
 Imagine finding that under your tree on the 25th after you've just done 100's of delivery runs holding it up. Handy for next year, I guess.
  • 1 1
 Haha
  • 6 1
 He probably just pee's on your hedge
  • 63 5
 Still think MTBs are way too expensive compared to motorcycles.
  • 55 54
 Fact :You can buy the identical bike to the world champion and it costs $10-15K.

Compare this to the fastest motorcycles in the world. You can't really compare a MTB to a race-prepped MotoGP bike that would be 50x more.

It's disingenuous to compare a top of the line MTB with an amateur motorbike. At least be truthful and compare the $7000 motorbike to an $800 Giant Talon hardtail.
  • 34 15
 @GTscoob: that's not really a fair comparison.
Does that bike have completely custom, one off components on it? No.
Can I buy every part off the shelf from pretty much any retailer? Yes.

So enough with the nonsense that because it's the same as the pros use so it should cost as much as developing an internal combustion engine, transmission, ect, etc, plus SHIPPING!!! And a bicycle costs as much as a performance motorcycle.
It's because motorcycles aren't seen as the high dollar playthings that high end bicycles are. The profit margin is just ridiculous on bicycle parts.
  • 15 1
 @BarryWalstead: I wonder if a more meaningful comparison would be to compare the bikes and motorcycles that enthusiasts in the community actually ride.

What's the median (or may 75th percentile) total cost?

At a guess on the MTB side the median cost (of people that say ride weekly) is about $3000
  • 10 1
 @GTscoob: there are a thousand times more things to improve on a motorbike than on a bike when it comes to going top end. There is also a much larger market which means more R&D into aftermarket innovation never mind the near Century of lead time the Motorsports industry has. Also, the mainstream market for motorbikes is a lot closer to the 7,000 range then the mainstream market for mountain bikes is to the 800 giant hardtail. And considering fortnine has started selling mountain bike gear in the past year or two, it's not like he doesn't have his digit in the mashed potatoes in terms of convincing customers his products aren't overpriced.
  • 8 4
 @BarryWalstead:
I don't know, unless you're racing very competitively on a motorbike every kg doesn't matter, on a mountain bike it does. Bike companies go under all the time because they aren't making money.
Honestly a £1000 bike these days is amazing, just not compared to a £6500+ one, but a £6500 is an achievable amount for many people, and they could buy an ok motor bike or a race spec (a world cup rider could be competitive on it at a world cup level) mountain bike, a race spec motorbike is not an achievable amount for a normal person.
A good set of golf clubs and a couple of years membership is probably about the same price.
Typically the bulk market hobby money required is the similar across many sports/hobbies, how close to the best you get depends on where that money puts you on the return on investment curve
  • 1 0
 Which motorcycles?
  • 7 1
 @BarryWalstead: Wait, do you think motorcycles don’t have the same margins?
  • 24 10
 @idontknowwhatiexpected: pretty obviously they don't. You think it actually costs much to produce SRAM Transmission that costs over $1k? Or a Fox 38 Factory?
There is no way the profit margin could possibly be the same on a GSXR 1000 is only $16,349 and there are ebikes from Specialized that cost that. This bike has ALL the complexity of the bike and another 10X the complexity. And regulations it has to pass, and on and on.
Bicycles are just too expensive.
  • 16 4
 @BarryWalstead:
Profit margins on bike parts are actually tiny if you compare to something like consumer electronics. Bike shops are not making big money, why do you think they keep closing?
  • 7 2
 @BarryWalstead: Yeah, based on the way you're talking about it, I think you'd be surprised how slim the profit margins are all around.
  • 9 1
 Agreed.
Economies of scale tho. Motos manufactured every year vs mtbs manufactured every year? Guessing orders of magnitude different
  • 4 0
 @idontknowwhatiexpected: they dont. Motorcycle dealers are not making 30-35%on bikes
  • 7 0
 @happyheeltoe: watch the video, its addressed
  • 8 1
 @notthatfast: I think the shops aren't the ones making all the money... how are SRAM, Shimano, Fox etc. doing? And the big brands Specialized, Santa Cruz, Trek...
  • 24 1
 @handsomedan: There are very, very, very, very few people getting rich in the bike industry. It's not like they're printing money. Even higher up in management, I think you'd be amazed how much money people aren't making the bike industry relative to other industries. The only people I know of who get rich in the bike industry are the actual owners of certain companies, but I know lots of bike industry owners who just hanging in there. The little old bike industry is not where you go to get rich, even if the bike industry sells overpriced crap to rich people. The margins are TIGHT.
  • 9 2
 @BarryWalstead: Let's also consider the potential cost of a class action of the brakes of a motorcycle fail the way most ServoWave Shimanos do. Certification is a huge cost for the motor sector, both cars and motos.
  • 6 14
flag nickfranko (Nov 5, 2023 at 16:06) (Below Threshold)
 @GTscoob: you do realize that you can buy a near-identical motorcycle to the ones ridden by 600 and 1000cc champions for under the price of an e-bike, right?
  • 4 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: exactly, you'd be surprised how much an "extremely overpriced" tyre for example costs for a distributor.
  • 5 0
 @handsomedan:
Laying people off left, right, and center currently…
  • 24 6
 @BarryWalstead: The GSXR1000 has:
0 carbon fibre components laid up by hand
Been in production for over 20 years with minor revisions each time
Never come in more than two colour schemes a year - usually one
1 size, ever
Sees engine revisions only every 4 years
Basically the same gearbox from 2005 to now
No changes in suspension for about 10 years
Sold as many as 9000/yr in the UK alone (scaling for the US, Japan, Oceania and western Europe that means an estimate of around 100k units a year at its peak). Go ask any MTB company how many of any one high end bike model (the specific model and size) they sell in a year. Even for the likes of Spec/Trek/Giant, I guarantee it's a single digit percentage of that at most.
Lots of cast parts (incl wheels, which require no lacing)
Lots of steel parts
Weight optimization roughly equivalent to a $1000 MTB
About 5 serious competitors on the market (Honda, Kawasaki, Ducati, Yamaha, probably someone else too), ie huge sales volumes for everyone.

You can argue that MTBs are "too expensive" but that's only because you're looking at the most expensive bikes and not the equivalent level of performance. If you look at the most expensive streetbike you can buy, you'll have no problem whatsoever dumping over $100k on it. MV Agusta F4CC - $120k. Ducati Desmosedici D16RR - $235k.

It's also worth considering that both MTBs and motos are built to be as good as they can be for a given pricepoint, and that pricepoint is probably determined more by what people are able/willing to pay for what is essentially a toy.
  • 11 2
 @nickfranko: You have to be joking right? Comparing an off the peg 1000cc bike to a WSBK is like comparing a subaru wrx off the showroom floor to a WRC car.
They may be based on the same vehicle but they are completely different in terms of cost and setup.
  • 7 1
 Nobody is asking the bike industry to "innovate" for annual release cycles(pun not intended). MTB geo, frame material and suspension etc is in a good place. Now, work on manufacturing costs and driving down overheads. The raw materials for carbon fibre are cheap as chips there is so much room for cost cutting the manufacturing process. Quite frankly A.I. can't come soon enough in some industries. The costs of MTB's is what is stopping market growth and pushing into emerging/new markets. There are plenty of countries in Europe where the vast majority of people are on 14,000 euros a year before tax. You had these people during COVID then prices went crazy and everyone went away didn't they.
  • 9 4
 The only argument they make that holds any water is that mtb prices are set purely by how far we are willing to bend over. Period. Comparing how close the mtb is to a "competition" mtb vs how close the consumer ktm is to the race ktm is just pure waffle and bs, and it explains nothing. Race motos cost a shitton because of the one-off manufacturing tuning etc. Joan admits the competition mtb is pretty much the same as the dentist bike. As the video already went into, the dentist bike has the same sales volume as the consumer moto. So the argument is more accurately that the mtb competition bikes are kinda cool in that they are actually relying on mass-produced consumer parts.
  • 5 3
 @st-lupo: Yup, the amount of machine time invested into even a budget motorcycle is at least 10 times that of the most high end Yeti.
Wonder what margin Sram and Shimano are running on their groupsets? 1000%? More?
Mountain bikes are insanely overpriced, and small manufacturers going under doesn't disprove that, just shows they are getting boned almost as bad as the end user.
  • 5 2
 @BarryWalstead: Yeah, it's not because bikes used on WC are soo good, it's just because bikes are simple things and it's hard to invent something truly spectacular. The level of engineering required to make even the best bikes is 10 times less than making a professional motorbike or a racing car.
  • 4 0
 @GTscoob: Agreed. Plus the motorbike they picked is built for commuting and some light off-road. You can get a bicycle suitable for similar terrain for about 1000euro or so. Yes the motorbike allows you to go a bit faster, well that's where the surcharge comes from.

End of the day, it is just plain nonsense to compare products between disciplines on similar criteria. I've got a top of the line mountain unicycle which new cost me as much as a pair of top end production mountainbike disc brakes (leaving out Trickstuff and the like). Yes I can't ride in on anything more difficult than some light XC, but that's just rider error.
  • 6 1
 @GTscoob: Agreed. A better comparison to the Norco in the video would be the KTM 890 Adventure R. A double the price, but more than likely the same individual would choose those 2. Not a high end MTB and a beginner level moto.
  • 4 2
 @voleman: A better comparison would an EXC two stroke, which is similar in price, but have more advanced everything and can do far more extreme stuff.
Pretending mountain bikes aren't overpriced is just denial of reality.
Just the engine and gearbox alone is more advanced and requires more machining and precision than everything combined on a mountain bike.
On top of that, barely any mtb manufacturers manage to even have crank bearings line up.
What justifies the price of modern mountain bikes?
  • 1 0
 @Losvar: I would say that they are probably vastly overpriced, but are genuinely curious why. I mean there must be something which makes them so pricey and it's probably not like that manufacturers earn so much and have 50% margins on everything. Or maybe US dentists are guilty cause they will but anything and there are really 50% margins, who knows Smile
  • 3 2
 @lkubica: Mountain bike pricing expands to fit the demand of the market. I know that sounds backwards, but there is a huge chunk of the MTB market demanding more expensive bikes. Same thing with road bikes, where the performance difference between a $2000 road bike and a $15000 road bike is basically nothing. I live in LA, and the amount of money around me is CRAZY. I was on a road ride yesterday and got passed by over 200 Lamboghinis. For customers like this, the more expensive a bike is, the more desirable it is, because it's exclusive. Mountain bike companies have been courting these customers, aka "the dentist bike," and it's not like they take the same bike and mark it up to get to the higher price point. They spend more on marketing, R&D, videos of people wearing labcoats in wind tunnels, and expensive materials until the bike is worth the top price point. Believe it or not, the margins are actually worse on higher end bikes, they're just making it up via a higher per-unit price. High end mountain bikes are expensive because they're a hobby of the uber rich. When they stop being desirable for the uber rich, you'll see the price of the halo products start to come down. Until then, get used to buying SLX, Deore, GX, and NX.
  • 4 6
 @Losvar: Hardly, MTB components require to much tighter tolerances for manufacturing, weight, and efficiency. On a motorbike you can just add more power to counter heavier weights. Bikes are limited by human power which means everything else has to be engineered for weight and efficiency, increasing complexity.

Take apart a car or motorcycle and take apart a bike. The bicycle is smaller and more intricate, the inner workings of MTB suspension is more advanced than most motorcycle suspension, the complexity of an AXS derailleur is greater than a standard transmission, the design and precision of a high end hub is moreso than a nicely built off-road axle or differential.
  • 5 2
 @GTscoob: This part about suspension is simply not true, all current mtb suspension is just scaled down moto suspension from 1970s... All that mtb industry invented are bs like buttercups.
  • 5 1
 @TEAM-ROBOT: So this video is right, the problem is that 80% of the market is in the US...
  • 4 1
 @lkubica: all current mtb suspension is not sclaed down moto suspension unless you're stricitly talking about coil suspension, and then its just closer and not the same.

and speaking about suspension. How many motos just run single pivot swing arms?
  • 3 1
 @Losvar: have any real data to back up that 10 times machine work in moto versus MTB? How about the bit about the margins?
  • 2 0
 Part of the reason these comparisons seem to fall apart is that there is a lack of framing of the question involved. The major, and obvious, thing that a motorcycle has and a bicycle doesn't is an engine. I'd be a fool to assume that the cost of a motorcycle is 50% engine/transmission, but let's assume that for a second.

A Honda CRF 450 costs just under $10,000 usd new. Let's assume that the Honda minus engine and transmission is down to $5,000 usd. Now consider that there are only really only a dozen, if that, direct competitors to the Honda. Now compare that to a $5000 trail mountain bike, for which there are now AT LEAST 3 different sizes, and more than 3x the amount of bikes to choose from, with a myriad of different suspension designs.

Now, look at the level of componentry. The stuff on the motorbike wouldn't even compare to the same quality of parts that you would find on an entry-level trail bike. I have ridden, and owned mulitple motorcycles to date, the most expensive one is just over $12,000, but I would say that based on the comparison I've outlined above, the componentry of that bike is about on par to what you would find on a $3000 hardtail. So while there are differences in cost, we're not talking 10x the difference in cost.
  • 2 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT:
I’d be curious to know how much markup there is at each level and if brands are taking more? Otherwise where is the money going?

Many steps along the way and everybody gets their take. Factory to the brand, brand to the distributor (lots of those in Canada, not sure how US model works), distributor to shop, shop to customer. I feel for shops who need to keep selling at higher msrps with what I presume to be similar margins as prior years with more expenses / massive inflation.
  • 6 0
 @Losvar: honestly, you can go buy a Norco Fluid A4 for $2200USD (and that's full retail - they're currently marked down to $1500USD!). But people on Pinkbike don't actually do that, they instead bitch about the bike that's 5 times the price. Like literally nothing would make you happy at this point. Cheap bikes do exist, you just don't buy them.
  • 2 0
 @hg604: Exactly
  • 2 0
 @happyheeltoe: Ding! Ding! First person to actually figure it out. Economies of scale.
  • 2 2
 @GTscoob: Have you ever worked on an automobile transmission before? Or even seen the inside of one? How about setting backlash and the mesh on a rear differential? Some of your statements are a bit, how do I put it... silly. Mtb suspension is pretty rad at the moment but it's all trickled down tech from motorsports. They have decades of r+d and pure experimentation on us, nothing wrong with letting others figure stuff out first. I will say some hubs are pretty freaking rad and deserve to cost an arm and a leg and others not so much.
  • 1 0
 @notthatfast: i worked for a big e commerce company selling bikes and small, cheap private labrl parts is where the margins are actually big. For our company buying stuff its usually 30% cheaper or more than what the customers are paying.
  • 3 0
 @GTscoob:

MotoGP is incomparable to anything in the MTB world. Comparing a KTM commuter bike to a prototype series is not in the same ball park.

Take Supermoto or Enduro and you can go grab a KTM 450 SMR or a KTM 300 XC-W for $12k (generally find deals for closer to $10k) and you pretty much have a turn key race bike. Especially throw another $5k at it in parts/work and you would still be in the same ballpark as a top of line bike mountain bike.
  • 1 0
 @notthatfast: complete bikes for the bike shop? Sure.

For component manufacturers, huge profits. Didn't Shimano just post record profits?
  • 1 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: I'm talking component manufacturing, not end retail of bikes.
  • 3 1
 @hg604: a lot of the economies you cite agree because the markets are different.
Where mountain bikers will buy into most any nonsense, the motorcycle market is about tiny optimization, not new models every year.
But that's still saying mtb is wildly overpriced when you consider the manufacturing costs of building an engine, shipping it, etc, etc.
How can a motorcycle that uses 20X the valuable resources, and 100X the machine time, not to mention the cost of shipping, flooring the item, ect, etc.

I don't understand the bicycle cost apologists.
  • 2 0
 @BarryWalstead: you do realize that record sales will most likely equate to record profits? Doesn't mean they have large profit margins, just the most profit they've ever made.
  • 1 0
 @biker245: ding ding ding, correct
  • 3 0
 Price according to what people are willing to pay.
When the S Works Enduro came out in 2019 or 2020 there were a couple of articles stating that you could purchase all the components at full RRP and build the same bike as the complete, but for about £1000 less. That proves they are overcharging, but they are doing that to appeal to those people who just want to buy the most expensive shit, like the £230k Ducati referenced above.

No one is ever going to persuade me that a bicycle with 60 parts costs as much to design and engineer as a four stroke engine. Pretty sure that markup on a motorcycle is well down in single figures, and for bicycles it's probably close to 100% at full whack (when I was working at a bike shop I was always allowed to buy at cost plus VAT which typically was about 40% off in the 90s).

Too expensive, small market, supply and demand.

To counter the high prices, I often buy used frames and build them up using discount parts myself, when they're on sale.
I build my own wheels and I sell on my old parts to offset the cost of new ones. It's part of what I enjoy about MTB.

But in answer to the point of the debate... Yes, bikes are definitely overpriced.
  • 3 0
 @BarryWalstead: www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2023/10/24/shimano-bike-related-sales-down-25-first-three-quarters record profits last year perhaps... certainly not this one, net profits were down 47%.

You're right that motorcycles have gone through crazy amounts of manufacturing optimization. That could one day happen in the bike industry, if/when we get to the point where there are only half a dozen massive manufacturers and basically no small ones so that unit volumes go right up, and we agree that weight doesn't matter so that we can use cast iron and mig welded steel parts everywhere on the single size that the bike comes in.

Engines are truly impressive in terms of their manufacturing, no denying that, but the barrier to entry to making anything in the automotive industry is so high that it actually is beneficial to overall unit costs because not many startups can get the funding that's necessary to develop a competitive engine for example - however, the actual manufacturing tech that's used for the mechanical parts of them is over a century old. I've worked in the automotive industry for companies making tens of millions of units of any given product, where it's really worth their while to spend $500k to save $1 per piece in manufacturing cost, and I've worked in the bicycle industry for companies making single digit hundreds of parts. I've also worked in supply chains with big bike companies that do churn out tens of thousands of units a year, and I'll go back to my previous reference with the Norco Fluid to point out these low-cost mass-manufactured bikes DO exist, they ARE reasonably priced comparable to the motorcycle world, and you still don't buy them, instead you ignore them and complain on the internet about bikes using materials and weight optimization that is far more comparable to Lamborghinis than KTMs.

Like you actually do have the options here, you are just salty that bikes exist that are outside your budget. It's like being pissed that Ferrari exists. Buy the Hyundai then.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: Buying complete bikes always seemed silly to me. Considering how many options there are with the availability of compatible components and considering how picky us mountainbikers are, chances are slim you'd buy the complete bike that you'd actually love. Sure, if you're starting out a complete bike is the quickest and cheapest way to hit the dirt. But after that, I don't think you'd be so unhappy that you'd want to replace everything. You might break something and replace it with something better, learn you prefer different brakes and save up for them, build a spare wheelset etc. Plus they have to build the bike for you, ship an unwieldy bike from the assembly line straight to your dealer (or home). Sure they may get better deals on the individual components, but there still is a lot of work and logistics involved which you wouldn't have with a customer who just buys the individual parts and assembles the bike themselves.

Your choice for a top of the line bike (the S-Works model) does deserve a side note though. Typically for the lower end models (which sell in larger quantities too) bike brands get better deals with their OEM suppliers as they often stick with one supplier as much as possible for better discounts. Typically SRAM, often also Shimano with Fox. With the higher end models, they are more picky and choose components across more different brand. Magura brakes, BikeYoke dropper, Ohlins suspension etc. So they aren't getting these discounts as much. So the more expensive a model is, the less sense it makes to buy the complete bike. Probably also the reason why the more high end frames are being sold separately, but they don't bother to do that with the cheaper versions.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: that's a fair point. It makes more sense to buy a frameset and build it to your exacting specifications if you have the cash.
One reason I was never able to get into motorbikes as much as pushbikes is the compatibility thing. Everything fits or can be easily made to fit.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: Because bikes have always been my default means of transportation ever since I was a kid, everything else seems expensive. Doesn't mean I wouldn't drive anything motorized or take public transport, but you'll be very aware of the cost of a trip. Like 10eurocent per kilometer just for fuel alone. On a strong bicycle, it is next to impossible especially as I'm using e-bike components on an unassisted bike. I think I ride well over 100km a week. After over five years, those Schwalbe Marathon (50km/h certified e-bike version) are still perfectly fine. I finally found a chain that doesn't seem to stretch either. If anything, it are my pedal bearings which need most service (bit of grease and 1euro bushing per service). Travel is pretty much free. There is just nothing like this. Back as a student aerospace engineering, nearly all teachers seemed to be bicycle fans as obviously efficiency is the highest good. The aerodynamics people seemed to be the biggest nutters. It seemed as if they couldn't bring themselves to ride anything other than a recumbent (not with fairings) as obviously an upright bike had much more drag.

So yeah, repairabilty is one thing, the cost of ownership and "free" and independent travel is the other. I also taught my kids, a bike is never broken. You may break a component, might even need to replace it. But chances are slim you'll be doing some JRA and destroy the entire bike beyond repair.
  • 2 0
 @vinay: "A bike is never broken." I love that.
  • 53 0
 sharing that pee bottle with your bros
  • 70 2
 Better than sharing your fleshlight
  • 1 1
 @sdaly: LOL!
  • 11 0
 @sdaly: don't kink shame bro!
  • 7 0
 3 bros max
  • 3 1
 @apokolokyntosis: bullshit. I can fill that 700ml easy in one standing ,lol.
  • 3 0
 @sdaly: Dependant on your girth this could double as a fleshlight.
  • 11 0
 @Konyp: Everything's a fleshlight if you're brave enough!
  • 55 9
 I love mountainbikes and motorcycles. The motorbike burns gas, costs in insurance and road fees. My mtb burns calories.
Having fun on the motorbike risks speeding tickets and (where i'm from) possible loss of license. Having fun with mtb means getting out in nature and spending time with good people.

For the same (similar) price i'll take the mountain bike any day of the week.
  • 25 7
 In France you may be killed by hunters 8months a year if mtbing.
  • 14 0
 @fracasnoxteam: Mountain bikers are easily mistaken for rabbits.
  • 4 0
 tangential
  • 7 1
 Every time I've had to choose between riding my motorcycle or my mtb, I've gone with the mtb. It's best to be the motor. However, the speeds on a motorcycle are hard to beat. And it increases speed tolerance on the mtb.
  • 17 1
 @FaahkEet: Is it an ordinary rabbit or one with big sharp pointy teeth?
  • 15 1
 @Danmcdan: one that can only be dispatched with the holy hand grenade.
  • 2 0
 @fracasnoxteam: Pest control is necessary in NZ too
  • 5 17
flag nickfranko (Nov 5, 2023 at 16:03) (Below Threshold)
 You do realize not every motorcycle requires you to go fast to have fun, right?
Do you even ride? Or have you even owned more than 1-2 bikes?
  • 3 0
 @njparider: I once rode with a guy who switched over from motocross to mtb. Had only been mountain biking for a month but I couldn't believe how hard & fast he was hitting things. It was like race pace on every run. Guess moto will do that to you.
  • 2 2
 I hate loud motorcycles.
  • 1 0
 @zyoungson: Elliot Heap. Went from picking up a bike to junior world cup champ in about five years. He used to ride motorcycles, apparently.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: probably had a bmx background
  • 1 0
 @Danmcdan: I think he went from a CR80 to a Carrera
  • 33 1
 Piss jugs. Way a the road, Bubbs... Way a the road.
  • 3 1
 Totally made me think of that!
  • 6 1
 The way she goes
  • 4 3
 Way she fcuking goes.
  • 2 2
 Way o' the road, bubs.
  • 2 1
 @Rich-Izinia: Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't.
  • 23 0
 The piss bottle would be the perfect gift for my bladder-weak missus. The problem is that this would probably be my last gift to her.
  • 13 0
 That's what we call a 100 year solution
  • 21 1
 Why do many defend the Mtb pricing? Its a rip off
Ive done motocross and DH forever. Like both equally, but there’s more value in MX bikes.
But Mtb prices are deflating luckily as they should.
  • 9 0
 So they can feel better about what they paid. Ha but no forreal I don't get it. It's not even just the bikes it's everything. Compare mtb clothes to moto. Can buy moto gloves, jerseys, googles, even helmets for much less than mtb.
  • 17 2
 700ml is not 4 pees. I use a normal High5 750ml bottle when camping and I can nearly fill it in one go during the night! The High5 bottles are good because they have a wide neck. Not bragging, it's just good to have a big target in the middle of the night...
  • 23 0
 Switch to wine Wink
  • 5 0
 I broke my back years ago and had to have a catheter fitted. When they removed it I was given a 1.5L bottle (I was bed ridden). I was screaming at the nurse to get me another one as I overflowed it.
  • 2 0
 I used to use a Lenor bottle to avoid opening my van door in the middle of the night.
  • 2 1
 @pakleni:
Or whisky. Wine hangovers are the worst.
  • 28 1
 We got us a couple big pissers over here folks
  • 9 1
 @on-the-move: Who doesn't enjoy a pissing contest?
  • 14 1
 "Shouldn't bikes cost less than motorcycles?" This is a rhetorical question. If you're defending the exorbitant price of mountain bikes then you are aiding the issues with our sport.
  • 15 0
 Pee bottle? WTF did I just read?
  • 7 1
 Man, when I used to spend long hours on the road where I could not stop, that would have been well handy.
  • 8 1
 "It’s the middle of the night, you’re snug in your sleeping bag or quilt, the rain is pouring, the wind blowing. You need to pee. Good god! This is when a pee bottle becomes a glorious luxury item to have when out hiking. Note: For any female hikers, if you don’t already, you should check out the she-wee"

hikertimes.com/top-5-best-pee-bottles-for-hiking-camping-mountaineering
  • 7 0
 Ok so if you're new to all this, the unwritten rule is don't drink the gatorade your buddy seemingly brought to camp, at least the one with gorilla tape around it

Also practice a couple of times before using yours in a shared tent Smile
  • 3 0
 @mi-bike: I camp in a hammock typically. I’ve gotten really good at the hang-it-over-the-side method.
  • 8 2
 Me: "Pee bottle! LOL"

Random PBer: "They're great when your camping or driving and its pouring rain outside"

Me: "Wonder if they take applepay?"
  • 2 0
 it immediately reminded me of dumb&dumber piss bottle and cop clip Smile
  • 7 0
 Those who know, know. One day you’ll look back at this comment as the exact moment your life changed forever!

That said:
A basic widemouth Nalgene is the industry standard. The old kind with extra BPA, preferably
700ml is not enough for one good pre-dawn pee, let alone several.
“Collapsible” and “pee bottle” should never be uttered in the same sentence.
  • 1 1
 If it's pouring rain you need to get up and check for leaks while you leak
  • 1 2
 @SacAssassin: they take appeelpay
  • 2 0
 @mi-bike: I love they had the #1 go to. Gatorade bottle.
  • 13 0
 if you can make a seal while you're peeing you can expand the bottle and finish your pee instantly!
  • 2 0
 Jesus
  • 15 6
 Why motorcycles cost as much as mountain bikes: It's easy, they don't. Compare that entry-level sport bike with an entry-level MTB for a fair comparison.

Also see people comparing the cost of World Cup winning tires with the equivalent of CST automotive tires. At least compare like for like.
  • 7 3
 My motorcycle cost $20,000 when new. Lots of motorcycles are in the $40,000 range.

Mountain bikes may not offer the same value for the money spent, especially when it comes time to resell it.

But in the end, you are buying a machine for a specific job, and will pay what the market bears for what you want.

Why does my motorcycle cost the same as many automobiles? It uses a fraction of the resources it takes to build a car and it's built on an assembly line that minimizes manual labor, the same as an automobile factory.

Supply and demand set the prices for the commodities we buy. I personally can't deal with new bike prices, so I always buy used. This applies to both my bicycles and motorcycle.
  • 2 1
 I feel like people are missing the issue.

When looking at $30k+ bikes, you clearly see value for the money. You get more power, way better suspension, electronics, and extra features (heated grips, e.t.c). If you don't need/want any of those, there are cheaper bikes,

When looking at $10-15k "world cup replica" mountain bikes, you are getting no exra performance for the money -
simply bling and a few extra knobs to turn, the latter of which is useless for most people. For any regime of riding, a $4-5k mountain bike with fresh service can be ridden anywhere a 10-15k mountain bike can, at the same speed, with the same smoothness. Even more so, when it comes to downhill enduro, the increase in price seems to be correlated with getting the bikes lightweight and stiff in carbon frames, whereas heavier frames, especially made out of steel are not only more compliant and smoother, but also the extra weight makes them faster in tech unless you are a fairly skilled and fit racer that can hop around and pump.

And ebikes are even worse in this regard. Every single middrive unit manufacturer is partnering with companies to not sell the units direct, so they can jack up the price. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise - electric drive motor systems are DEAD simple, even with torque sensing. Ebikes should be ~$1.5k higher price than a regular mountain bike, and thats accounting for the profit from the electric drive system.
  • 11 0
 "doesn't look like a container for urine."

That's... not always a good thing. There is a reason water, gasoline, diesel, etc, containers don't look like each other.
  • 18 1
 My pal pissed in his empty water bottle in the night when camping many years ago. By morning he'd forgotten and he used the contents to brush his teeth. Glad he did, because I didn't have that much material for my best man's speech at his wedding.
  • 12 0
 Uhhh, just piss outside.
  • 8 1
 We out here trying to KOM, ok?
Ain’t nobody got time for dat
  • 19 1
 Can't interrupt my Zwift workout just to go outside.
  • 1 0
 @Jaydenc: then you just let it go, see your even lighter now ...
  • 10 0
 Where is the poop bottle? That would be so gross. Lol.
  • 6 0
 That's actually a thing for big wall climbers.

gripped.com/news/three-ways-to-deal-with-poop-and-rock-climbing
  • 1 0
 @corporaltedbronson: @ACree It is a thing. Also, a bucket with plastic shopping bags work. But gotta quadruple bag that sh!t. Lol.
  • 1 0
 @corporaltedbronson: the Canadian ver. is called the Double Double
  • 1 0
 @ACree: Looks like shitting yourself is also a thing for big wall climbers.
  • 2 0
 @tacklingdummy: attach a toilet seat to the bucket and you'll never know the difference.Traveling the Blue Ridge Parkway with 2 kids under 7 at the time made this a godsend. I'll never hit a rd trip through the mountains without it.
  • 8 0
 Pee bottle in my dishwasher…no.
  • 7 5
 You’re a hand wash guy? Gross.
  • 6 1
 Why does anyone care about the highest priced mountain bikes besides the people who are buying them? I don’t think for a moment about the bikes more expensive than I can afford.
  • 7 1
 This pee bottle is kinda gross, just piss against a tree. Now a shit box you can use anywhere and wash in your dishwasher, that would be useful.
  • 2 0
 I don't need a box in the woods, I need something to sit on or against. The scramble to find a good fallen tree or live one to lean against has had some close calls.
  • 7 0
 @FaahkEet: Problem is people go hiking/camping in places where thousands of other people also go all the time (don't ask me why, they're weird and like being around people even while camping) so they need to also find solutions for their shit and piss because there is going to be problems if 1000 people piss against the same tree as a designated camp site.
  • 2 0
 @on-the-move: that's fair. Around here most places that have designated campgrounds that lots of people flock to and camp out with dozens or more of other campers "in the woods" tend to have their own latrines so no nature potty needed.
  • 1 0
 @on-the-move: The main problem with relieving yourself in the woods is the contamination to any water systems nearby. Generally rule of thumb is to relieve yourself at least 200ft from water sources. Relieving yourself can contaminate water sources with bugs like hepatitis, giardia, blue baby syndrome, and other pathogens and bacteria. Trust me, you don't want giardia unless you enjoy uncontrollable diarrhea and burbs that smell like diarrhea. My sister got it as kid from a water fountain of all places. Don't pee in the water.
  • 4 0
 There would be one thing that would make bikes cheaper in no time: get rid of unnecessary standards!
If a manufacturer has to make a DH capable hub for Boost, SuperBoost, HyperBoost, UltraBoost and 20 NoBoost standards instead of 1 hub standard, it makes manufacturing unnecessary complicated and pushes prices unnecessary. Same with bottom brackets, seat tube sizes or handle bar diameters. Just make one standard for all the relevant connections that works well instead of every company "inventing" another standard every 2 years...
  • 3 0
 A bicycle, with a handful of moving parts, price is insane compared to any motorcycle which has thousands of moving parts within the engine alone. Maybe motorcycles are too cheap, maybe a yz450f should be be $30,000 to make mtb bikes look cheap. When I bought my first high end carbon bike, I told the dealer “if you’re going to price bikes the same as a cheap used car, you need to expect people to haggle on price”. The mtb world has me thinking like this now. The reason I don’t buy a new diesel dually at 80,000, because it just out of my range, so I wait a few years, when they lose value and are less than half the price. That’s where I’m at with a new DH bike, I’ll just wait a couple years and find a used one. That’s the new logic for me.
  • 1 0
 A motorcycle doesn't have thousands of parts inside the engine. I'd bet they don't even have a thousand parts in the entire motorcycle. A good friend who sold bicycles for a decade plus used to have a pitch for people comparing a $200 Walmart bike to a $1200 Mtb, he would say with a $200 bike, divide price by the number of parts to build the bike and your basically talking about building a bike out of 2cent parts. That's not how the math actually works but is a good example of what you're getting for your money. Do you want spokes that cost a penny to hold your wheel together or some actual quality spokes from DT that cost nearly a dollar.
  • 1 0
 ...a V8 engine doesn't even have a thousand parts to make it work and neither does a v-twin moto engine. I understand what you mean by there being a bunch of parts to make an engine but you are way off. A bicycle has on average about 900 parts total, a complete car has upwards of 30000 parts. Having difficulty finding how many parts are in a complete motorcycle but it's easily around 10k parts or less for a complete bike given the lack of cylinders, interiors and many other things motorcycles lack like safety restraints and airbag systems. The amount of people who have no clue about manufacturing and what it takes spouting off with little to no experience or knowledge is no surprise. As time goes on people just keep expecting things to get cheaper is all I hear. These machines are play toys, not necessary in any way imaginable. The price is what the market will bear. There's a lot more to the price of a product than the sum of its parts, I don't understand how people don't get that.
  • 1 0
 @MikeGruhler:

Mtbr’s are always right and know everything, I forgot. I was mainly saying there are more precision parts on a Ducati that a simple bicycle.
  • 3 0
 I'm not sure the "we ride the same bikes as the pros" argument holds the same weight as it used too. How many, key word here: affordable, bikes for sale are you really seeing specc'd with XTR/Saint, XX1, Live Valve/Flight Attendant, Factory/Ultimate/Pro/Blackbox, TRP evo/Hope Tech 4, etc anymore? The price of consumer bikes has definitely risen but I'm seeing a lot more specc'd with shittier tier components.

Also having seen the pro's bikes in the pits at UCI races there's a lot of unreleased, prototype, custom (ex tuned suspension) stuff going on that we're definitely not getting. At least yet.
  • 6 0
 I’ve just pissed my self with laughter
  • 4 2
 MTB pricing is more whack than ever because we expect the tyranny of choice when buying. Even if it's one of two OEM choices (Shimano/SRAM or Fox/RS), it's too many. Too many colours, minor iterative trend chasing, component tiers. "You can have one bike, as long as it's black, comes with a Horstlink, and RS/SRAM, and hasn't changed much since 2018" doesn't really exist or maximize margins. Otherwise that would be a very affordable new bike.
  • 4 2
 The price disparity depends on comparing similar features of motorcycle and mountain bike, in this case full suspension, tubeless tires and disc brakes. BUT if you limited yourself to comparing mountain bikes over time (because a decent 650cc Dual Sport motorcycle was about the same $7k price thirty years ago as it is today) then the results may surprise you.

Thirty years ago the VERY top model XC race hardtail from Specialized was the S-Works Ultimate Epic Carbon 26er with tubes, full 24 speed XTR groupset including cantilever rim brakes, QR skewer dropouts and a chromoly steel RIGID fork for $4100 US and this year an Epic Comp Carbon hardtail is $3500 US and gets a Reba suspension fork, thru-axle dropouts, 29 inch wheels, hydraulic disc brakes, and a 12 speed SRAM NX/GX groupset that offers a much wider range of gearing. Oh and tubeless tires. Norco's top model 30 years ago was a Rampage Ti with a Rockshox Mag-21 suspension fork and 24 speed XTR for about $3200 US and their top XC hardtail this year is less than that with a carbon frame and 12 speed SLX/XT, SID fork and the same 29er, tubeless, discs and thru-axles as with the specialized.
  • 3 1
 My Pivot Shuttle SL is $11250
My KTM Duke 790 is $13500

Definitely more engineering and moving parts in the KTM. Bikes are definitely a tad overated. I love both and appreciate the ingenuity of now days bikes or Ebikes but the 790 is definitely a work of art.
  • 2 0
 Wouldn't a pee bag be more practical (packable) and less likely to be mistaken for a water bottle? Then again you could mistake it for the solar shower and experience what our former President apparently enjoyed. Make it Rain!
  • 3 1
 I think we can all agree that Hardline video is completely badass. It’s like a Forza Horizon mission in real life! That Mazda truck just sounds mean, and the driving is FIRE!!!
  • 2 0
 Clicked on it because I thought they were going to try to drive down the track. Was not actually disappointed!
  • 5 0
 Love the Yoann appearance.
  • 1 0
 Only after you get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic jam for 2 hours with your wife/partner and there is nowhere for her to pull over and pee (with reasonable cover) will you fully understand and appreciate the need for this product.
  • 3 2
 Peesport sounds like it belongs on a different website starting with p... Also, every single comment is at least alluding to it, everything else has been ignored. Predictable.
  • 22 1
 Peedictable
  • 13 1
 Anpissitated
  • 9 1
 Urine good company.
  • 2 0
 Really wets the apatite
  • 4 0
 That pee bottle is for people who use saddles with a handle on the back.
  • 2 0
 Not really fair to compare a top-end mountain bike to an entry-level motorcycle. It's like comparing the cost of a new Ferrari to the cost of a one-bedroom house.
  • 2 0
 The useable examples given so far are fair, but have nothing to do with MTB. Just saying.
  • 2 1
 As someone that rides both my mountain bikes get ridden at least 5x more often than the dirt bike. That means the cost per use is way cheaper.
  • 4 5
 But your dirt bike lasts 5 times longer
  • 4 1
 @cycleskiclimb: Not necessarily. Dirt bike engines require lots of routing work. Changing oil, cost of fuel, a new piston every 100 hours and such are just the beginning. I'd say the value of a dirt bike lasts longer than a mtb though.
  • 1 0
 one topic on the 3rd one topic on the 4th on the 5th day we have a piss pot. we talk about how the Mighty Mavic have fallen just look upon us.
  • 2 0
 Motorbikes are so over priced, you cant even take them down a red route....
  • 1 2
 The MC - MTB value debate is interesting but I'm so tired of dudes trying to be comedians in these types of videos. Usually they just waste time of anybody watching. I lasted about a minute with these two fellows trying to be clever before the irritation level went into the red zone. Maybe they should watch a Park Tools vid and learn something before they make another one.
  • 2 1
 You should write to them and tell them how their free video upsets you.
  • 2 0
 Will the pee bottle fit to the bottle cage? Then place for in-frame 2 bottles really make sense!
  • 1 0
 Next big bike innovation: a hole in the saddle big enough to fit the Pee Bottle! Then a thumb release button to eject the fluids from the overfilled bottle.
  • 2 0
 Making watersports more sporty!
  • 2 0
 Give that pee botle to Dhangerhoml to innovate...
  • 3 1
 Just Pee on the woods, take a dump as well if you need to!
  • 4 0
 There nothing more natural than taking a leak, or dump in the woods.
  • 3 0
 Nothing like taking a leak just upstream from some swimmers
  • 1 0
 Doesn't PeeSport branding definitely make it seem like a container for urine?
  • 1 0
 I expected to read what MTB and motorbike prices have got to do with high performance pee bottles. Disappointed.
  • 2 0
 Let’s be honest, his pee bottle is for when you are driving.
  • 2 0
 Epic Brad Sims content and all you talk about is piss?
  • 1 0
 yeah that is really pissing me off!
  • 3 2
 Brad Simms + BMX = Phenomenal..
Brad + MTB ...mmm
  • 2 1
 Why would you leave out the Go Girl, go-girl.com
  • 5 3
 I can’t say what led me to click on that link but I’m now excited that women can be more stunning and brave pissing standing up like the boys.
  • 2 1
 ‘Pee sports’ your taken the piss!!
  • 1 1
 The Pee bottle should be caled the Ray's bottle in hounour of Ricky's dad from Trailer Park Boys...
  • 1 0
 The jokes with wrong bottle got completely onto new level
  • 2 0
 I pee on trees...
  • 1 0
 I'm pretty sure the pee bottle idea was stolen from Trailer Park Boys.
  • 1 0
 “Just go man”…”ahhh”
  • 1 0
 Oh shocker. The mtb industry is raping us.
  • 1 0
 „Theres a flight attendant version, don’t get these“ - brilliant
  • 1 0
 Shouldn’t they cost less than motor bikes?
Hell Yeah they should
  • 2 0
 Just wee in the bush
  • 1 0
 "It's okay...we didn't use too much dynamite."
  • 1 1
 What's next, a dishwasher-safe poop bag?
  • 5 1
 You mean Tupperware?
  • 1 0
 What about #2?
  • 1 0
 #freeyoannbarelli
  • 1 1
 So...motorcycles are for peasants.







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