World Cup Racers Share Frustration as Points System Offers No Ranking Points for Semi-Finals

Aug 24, 2023 at 3:26
by Ed Spratt  
A look down at the main pits in the distance. Yes there s now a secondary pit space due to where the track is.

Ahead of the return of World Cup racing after its summer break, riders are being vocal about organisational issues that have seen Adam Brayton forced to miss the racing due to a lack of points as no ranking points are offered for semi-finals.

After the UCI decided to change the XC World Champs start order at the last-minute this week has brought up more problems for the UCI and the ESO.

The latest problem plaguing the 2023 race season is the news that no ranking points are being given to riders who qualify and race in the semi-finals. The most prominent casualty of this strange oversight is Adam Brayton who currently sits 55th in the overall series standings but only has 18 UCI ranking points. While the semi-finals offer riders series points for their position no UCI individual ranking points are offered. Even though a rider in the semi-finals has been inside the top 60 fastest riders that weekend and been given live broadcast time they are apparently not worthy of ranking points.

The 2023 rules state that a rider must have at least 40 points in the UCI DHI individual rankings to enter a World Cup event. A rider who features on one of the fee-paying teams can still enter without the required ranking points. It is worth adding here that while Adam Brayton currently only has 18 UCI ranking points, he was able to secure two top-40 race finishes so far this season.

Current UCI World Cup entry requirements.

Following Adam Brayton's announcement on social media many riders have jumped to his defence with the suggestion that these rules are only making things harder for privateer racers to succeed.

Wyn Masters' always insightful track walk video from Andorra saw a few of the top riders share their thoughts on the points issues and more ahead of this week's racing, we have included some quotes below.

bigquotesYeah shame the silly points system that this new organisation have got going has ruled him out of action this week but hopefully he will be back. Danny Hart

bigquotesThe racing is getting stressful man, like with the semis and the finals it's just, I dunno I'm starting to fall out of love with it...

It's (semi-finals) basically a race run and you get 31st and you don't even make finals it's dog shit. It really is, it's dog shit.

I think I dunno, we will see how it goes. Downhill might be dead. Nah I can't say that but I dunno I think it's just going to become very niche. It's going to be 30 guys and yeah like it's not going to be something you do anymore, you just watch it.

When I saw that (the news about Adam Brayton) the other day I was just like I'm over it. Why should someone who has made semis every go not have enough points to race a world cup, it just doesn't make any sense. It doesn't add up at all.

I don't know what is going on, you guys need to sort your shit out. Big time.
Kade Edwards

bigquotesPrize money needs to improve. It's tragic, tragic I tell you...

We could improve things, still getting ripped off in the meantime.
Bernard Kerr

bigquotesA lot of people would come to watch Adam ride because he is like a fan favorite, a mad dog and just a good guy. He has been in the World Cup forever and he has been qualifying at the races this year and he can't even start...

Someone is making some weird decisions...

Sort it out.
Wyn Masters

bigquotesTry and clear somethings up. People asking how I managed to do the first few rounds this year… Your points last 12 months from the date you receive them. Last year i scored enough to race this year. I was aware I needed more later on in the year.

After scoring “points” in semis I thought I had enough to continue racing the rest of the season…

Two weeks ago I got an email saying I couldn’t be entered for Valnord etc and that’s when I was Informed semi-finals points don’t count

I went to France to get points but unfortunately got a flat...

At the end of the day this falls on me, I should have checked my points after those World Cups and I’d have seen they hadn’t been added but these points would have counted last year for said results. I had no reason to check. Pretty much every pro has messaged me saying they didn’t know the points had changed either. (Makes me feel a bit better)

I’ve learned two things, semi points are pointless and I need to go on the points chase.. I’ve also applied for a GB jersey if a place becomes available. Fingers crossed.

I’m taking it on the chin and bash on.
Adam Brayton

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2,854 articles

  • 235 3
 Hot and opinionated take here... Chris Ball please read

Stop watching Drive to Survive and trying to make DH F1, it is a different sport with different motives. Its clear they want to slowly disincentivize the mid and lower pack riders, thus slowly transitioning them out, keeping the top 30 as fan favorites. I think the plan here was that all the lower riders would start racing national rounds, thus building the national series up and having a grassroots system. However by forcing this starting at the highest level its blowing the system apart and ruining it for everyone. Maybe in 5 years DH will be huge with our own Netflix series, but at what expense? We are a different sport than F1, so lets stop trying to make it something its not
  • 28 80
flag Guarana2th (Aug 24, 2023 at 3:47) (Below Threshold)
 F1 has very little to no talent... money needed to think about f1 eliminate all talented "ordinary" people...
  • 117 16
 LOL "Chris Ball, please read my Pinkbike post!"

Dang, Kerr called it. Riders were given a chance of having their union and most gave up on it, they didn't want to put in the extra effort to make sure BS like this doesn't happen. This is what happens when you sit back and hope for the best. Maybe the riders will start to participate and realize how important a rider-run union is. Complaining in vlogs won't change anything. Organizations like the UCI have been pulling this crap forever, regardless of the sport. Its up to the participants, the racers, to keep them in check through an active union. Or you can just give up and quit like Kade seems to be hinting at..... I guess it depends on how much you love the racing aspect of the sport.
  • 12 5
 @Guarana2th: incorrect. Sure most of the drivers come from insanely wealthy backgrounds. But the effort and time they put in is one of the most for all sports. 23 race weekends in almost as many countries, the stain they put they're body through to withstand such brutal g forces and the sheer intensity of the sport is among the most brutal of all sports.
Current drivers who come from quote ordinary backgrounds include Alonso, Ocon and Hamilton.
  • 145 2
 @scott-townes: I think they should go one better than a union: approach Red Bull with a bunch of riders and propose a series. It can start small, but hopefully snowball and just make UCI irrelevant.
  • 21 40
flag bulletbassman (Aug 24, 2023 at 4:33) (Below Threshold)
 @felimocl: ever watch an f1 driver work out man? It’s a laughable level of fitness compared to most pro athletes. Sure they are in shape but not even remotely comparable to what a dude has to do to make it in moto, mtb, hockey, football, other football, etc.

There’s a reason most of these guys get smoked when they try to Indy or other race series in retirement or when they don’t have a ride.

It’s a constructor sport. F1 is very cool. But it’s been entirely sponsor driven long before it had big tv production.

Eso is puttting the cart before the horse. Greatly degrading its talent pool and fan base. Half the current top 20 didn’t start their careers in the top 20. And you have a lot of race winners and guys with big fanbases who aren’t consistently in the top 30 or top 20 still on the scene bringing them views.
  • 4 1
 @Onetrackmind - there's a lot of truth in there. A lot people might not want to hear, though you are getting your props.

There is one issue: The first step in the process you hint at is to identify the nations that have a legit national - series - and make them official feeders. Next, identify the countries that do not have a national series - fund them and help get them financers - and formally make them feeders.

After that, there needs to be flexibility. For example, it would be illogical for the U.S. and Costa Rica to have the same number of official feeders. The US might need two, while Costa Rica or say Columbia only need 1.

That's where you start. You start with founding principles. What the structure is set, then you can start to change the lives of those that put their health on the line.

It just seems to me like the thoughts around the exec table are incredibly short sighted and are going to end up being jig saw pieces that don't comport.
  • 9 3
 Never thought I'd be comparing trickle down economics and the UCI, but those ranking points appear to trickle down in much the same way as money from the ultra rich.

(I am not trying to draw equivalence between the top DH riders and a bunch of ultra rich c**ts, it's not the former's fault they're saddled with the UCI)
  • 23 4
 To be really controversial; it seems strange that none of the riders actually looked at the rules before they raced, until they realised they couldn’t race. It is shit that you can make top 60 consistently and not race though and teams that pay can essentially buy in to a race
  • 6 10
flag ichabodchain (Aug 24, 2023 at 4:59) (Below Threshold)
 @felimocl: I doubt that the G forces in F1 are anything like flying for example so no I don't buy it.
  • 7 0
 @bulletbassman: do you follow f1 drivers on social media? most of them are cyclists or practice other sports and are ridiculously fit and have next to no days off in between f1 grand prix. Bottas does a lot of long distance gravel riding too. Most f1 drivers that "recycle" themselves over to the US afterwards seem to be doing quite well too whether it be in Indy or endurance/gt racing...
  • 5 1
 @enduroNZ: With the turmoil of the changeover of race series production company, I'm not sure how close to the start of the season the new rules were published, but it was certainly not advanced enough for anyone's liking. By that point riders are locked into their training, logistic, and race season plans so there was little to no scope to make adjustments.
  • 40 2
 Just look at Ball's comments in his Ask Me Anything last year. He doesn't give a f*ck, he made a whole lot of money with ESO I guess and doesn't care that he destroys downhill together with the UCI. Just a sellout
  • 8 3
 @scott-townes: Scott mate this is a pretty stupid unforeseeable thing that I don't think having the union sorted out would have made much different. Don't try and pawn this off on the riders it clearly isn't their fault.
  • 14 0
 @bikes-arent-real: I don't see it as deferring to the riders, just saying that with a union they would have some power in such situations. Think the UCI and ESO wouldn't listen if they got an email from the union stating nobody would break the line next race until this is sorted? The riders are the product, they just have less power individually.
  • 4 0
 @Will762: 100% the way forward and bring back the tracks the riders want!
  • 9 6
 @felimocl: Most brutal of all sports, how many times do you here about an F1 driver being out because of an F1 related injury? They might suffer from boredom or being hit by a toy thrown from the pram!
  • 19 0
 @bikes-arent-real: Right, because only hoping the UCI will come to their senses is working out so far...

The riders are the show, without them there is no race. Its their series, not the UCI's. So yes, the riders have the power, thus the responsibility to make sure their series is held in an acceptable manner. Sitting back and bitching on vlogs or social media and crossing your fingers will not change anything.
  • 3 1
 @bulletbassman: you have to be very fit to handle the stress on the body throughout the race. If they were out of shape they'd be crashing a lot more
  • 65 2
 Hot and opinionated take here... Chris Ball please read:

f*ck you Chris Ball.
  • 9 4
 @bulletbassman: ever seen those guys do a neck or hand eye coordination exercises, it's mind blowing.
To have the strength to fight 6G in a corner thousands of time every race is almost beyond human.
They are short and slim just like jockeys to fit in the car.

They are up there with road cyclists in terms of giving over they're entire body and lifestyle to devotion to the sport.

Indy is miles behind F1. Roman Grosjean said it himself this week that indy is 30 years behind. He was a likeable yet extremely average finisher in 10 years of F1 and has gone on to have a pretty decent indy career.
  • 10 1
 @enduroNZ: I'm a bit with you on this. Still confused on why Adam has been allowed to race so far this year without the 40 needed points and not now. I don't think you should be getting UCI ranking points for making it only to the semis and not the final so cutting the field in half to 30 this year sucks.

But quickly looking at Adam's points he's only gained pts at 2 races this year, a Portugal DH and the UK Champs even though he's been racing the British series that strangely doesn't seem to award any UCI points.

I've heard on some of the podcasts that it's tricky for the UK riders now because of Brexit, Visa and how much they can travel so that plays into what races they can go to put the points are there if you choose the right events. Happens in olympics alot, while some athletes are focused and the big spot light events others crush it at B events and get there needed amount of quali pts. Hell the electrician that put a light in our spare better room the other day has 55 uci points for podiuming 3 times in a week at the Dunbar series.
  • 1 0
 @Will762: totally agree
  • 4 0
 @scott-townes: spot on - you've obviously been around the block, gotta take the reigns and be pro-active, "fairness" isn't a thing unless you are fighting for it up front....nobody cares about feelings after the fact regardless of how fair things should be or how many people agree.
  • 6 0
 @Will762: It exists with Crankworx and Red Bull already. i think you may see a few riders that are consistently out of the WC finals focus on that in the coming years especially with the CW prize purse growing and Red Bull pulling in bigger viewership exposure for brands/riders.

But Crankworx falls under UCI as well. Most likely for insurance but it also awards need UCi points for WC's
  • 7 1
 Chris Ball truly sucks, which creates an unfortunate set of rules for the athletes in his attempt to value lever the shit out of racing
  • 8 0
 @Will762: this 100%

Number one goal should be to make the UCI irrelevant
  • 2 1
 @Guarana2th: You're not wrong - outside of the top 10 drivers, the talent drops of a cliff and you get pay-to-play oligarch brats like Nikita Mazepin. It's always been like this.
  • 1 0
 @scott-townes: Point is this is a stupid detail that everyone missed, and shouldn't have been there at all.
  • 1 3
 @Will762: that’s a good joke. Riders can do that but their sponsors won’t
  • 8 1
 The sport grows from the bottom. More riders, more revenues to be split among all the different stakeholders. That in itself doesn’t make things fairer, but it reduces the chance that tinkering with the rules at the top bureaucracy to change who gets a little more attention (=$) or support (=$) or reward (=$) doesn’t suddenly bump some well-liked pros out of competition or destabilize a series.

Growing the sport means bringing in people who are not exactly like yall. There isn’t some untapped pool of PB commenters who just haven’t bought a bike and a lift pass yet and are waiting on a slightly better WC broadcast to lay down their dollars. Different people are going to be different (—scary!!)

Public, legal, and (oh the horror) green and blue trails have more to do with DH’s future than all this fanservice in mtb media. Adding cycling to primary school phys ed. Prioritizing fun in people’s early experiences with racing. The riders who are core, who are my progression first, gimmee gimmee gimmee, you’re your own worst enemies. Not helping privateer WC racers all that well either
  • 6 0
 DH already has its version of drive to survive it's called WYNTV and is much better
  • 1 0
 @bgoldstone: He had points from last season, they are valid for 12 months.
  • 8 2
 @felimocl: @felimocl: Hamilton doesnt come from a poor background. You need 250k a year to compete in national karting to get picked up by sponsors. Only rich kids do that. he grew up in my home town and everyone there knows his background. While he likes to quote disrespectfully he came from the slums' he is just pretending to be a poor kid.
  • 2 3
 @Will762: yet none of the top teams or their riders goto rb events or crankworx because they are not important or give them the return they want
  • 3 2
 @bombdabass: The only quote I can find, he clearly corrected himself.

"It really was a dream for us all as a family to do something different. For us to get out of the slums.

"Well, not the slums, but to get out of somewhere and do something. We all set our goals very, very high but we did it as a team."

Yup, it sounds like he's pretending to be a poor kid, alright.
  • 11 2
 @bgoldstone: 40-points has been a requirement for years. It is not a new rule. Your UCI points expire every 12-months so it is a rolling total. The problem here is that semis are not awarded UCI points, and during the WC season, the riders attend very few other races that they could accumulate points in. Clearly there has been a lack of communication here (and to which Brayton himself says that he should have checked his points and then at least he would have been aware that his top-60 places were no longer getting points) to tell riders outside of UCI registered teams that only the top 30 would get the chance for UCI points.

@bikes-arent-real: If you're on a UCI registered team you have no need to worry about UCI points. How many points do you think the likes of Brook MacDonald has? I'd wager less than 40, but he gets to ride as he's on a team. Kade probably has a low total too - where's he been finishing all year? But Kade is with Trek, so he gets a free start thanks to that. The people that should be reading the rules are the privateers, like Brayton. It does always seem funny to me that people don't read the rules of the sport that they compete in. To get my NZ Motorsport race licence you have to pass an exam on the rules, so you have to learn the rules cover to cover, and the rules book is not thin - think Stephen Kings It book thickness for reference. As a mountain bike racer (when I was younger and faster), I read all the rules, and knew what I had to do if I wanted into a series. You can't, and shouldn't, live life waiting to be told what's what. The information is there if you bother looking.
  • 7 0
 Couldn't agree more.

In addition to disincentivizing mid and lower pack riders with the new points system, the added fees/costs are knee-capping up-and coming riders who need time on the circuit to develop and grow. It took legends like Gee, Peaty, Hill, and others several years to learn how to put it all together before they finally got on a podium. With some of the new points changes and fees, they're putting the ability to race at the Elite level farther out of reach for those who show potential.
  • 2 0
 @bashhard: Burkat beat Ball to selling out. He recently liked an article entitled 'GP Bullhound Advised Miura Partners on Its Investment in Wikiloc--empowering outdoor enthusiasts with the ideal trail navigation companion.'
  • 1 0
 @handynzl: @bikes-arent-real Brook has 141 points, plenty.
  • 1 0
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
  • 125 0
 Kade's comments are golden. Agree or not, he's calling it how he sees it. Respect. Probably a huge number of his colleagues feel exactly the same, even if they aren't vocalizing it yet. I hope the UCI sorts themselves out quickly. As a spectator, the sport has gotten confusing to follow.
  • 22 0
 He s actually the only one who speak openly about this.... other big name may think the same but they keep it politically correct which is a shame cuz the world cup circuit is turning into a shit show with this new format, point calculation and lack of security ....
  • 45 0
 Kade has the freedom to speak how he wants - he has an on-bike career outside of racing
  • 12 1
 UCI also needs to fix their live broadcast coverage in the US. I miss the RedBull playbacks.
  • 3 0
 @vectorforces: came to say the same thing, Trek will support Kade outside of WCDH. He could transition to Crankworx and make edits/product launch videos and still have a job.
  • 11 1
 Kade for union president.
  • 10 2
 I think he's slowly realizing now the big truth about UCI and typical sport organizations. They have a limitless supply of young kids willing to risk very serious injuries for a bit of fame and money (depending on the sport). Then you add a whole set of sponsors and venues to add money to the mix. This and some other sources of revenue feeds the whole gang of organization's officials. As the time goes by, a big part of those kids end up injured, managed out, disillusioned etc, while a handful stays and eventually turn into those officials (or related) themselves. And they start all over again accepting fresh blood to feed to the machine.

The good thing about downhill is that its a relatively small sport and it seems to me that the current riders actually would have a lot of negotiating power if they would unionize. Problem is that those people are competitiors and I'm sure they hate each other's guts behind closed doors. Also American culture influence made the "union" word almost like a taboo, and I'm sure UCI is doing the divide et impera too. So making a union would be hard, but I'm sure it would payoff in the end.
  • 3 0
 @tremeer023: Due respect, but based on my union experience, Mr. Brayton's response and phrasing does not evoke "I have a plan for us to make this situation better for all". He's not the guy.

I reserve the right to take my place on the downvote podium if I've missed a pun/joke/troll in this.
  • 1 1
 @Archimonde: "The good thing about downhill is that its a relatively small sport and it seems to me that the current riders actually would have a lot of negotiating power if they would unionize."

The flipside is downhill is a small sport in the global UCI scheme and they don't necessarily have to put up with the potential of a rider's union. They should, but they might not have to. If they called the riders' bluff the rider's union would then have to find a way to organize their own series or risk freeriding around for the next few years.
  • 2 0
 @iammarkstewart: UCI doesn't have to put up with it and that would be to their own detriment. Maybe they could go back to Redbull or even Crankworx as some people suggested. I bet majority of riders and teams are not even making any real money out of racing so I dont' think it would be a huge loss for them if they actually quit doing it.

At the same time I do agree that unionizing would be hard to pull off. UCI is huge, powerful and very well connected politically, and the world would be better of without that cancer. Surely you have to start somewhere, but I don't know the answer to that.
  • 3 1
 @Archimonde: Agreed, if the racer's are serious they have to start somewhere. And they have to be prepared for any number of outcomes. But when you say "riders and teams aren't making money and it wouldn't be a huge loss if they quite", you've handed a lot of negotiating leverage to the UCI. You admit you're not a big deal, then say the people with the money (teams) could quit....and the riders? Yeah, mega f*cked.

Out of all the quotes in the article, not one person was speaking of a solution, or had any outright anger. (Yes, these are not full quotes, I know context can be a thing). Rider's saying "sort it out". Who are you saying this to? The UCI? Riders are just a ragtag bunch of rando cyclists in the big pool of the UCI, pretty sure no one at the UCI is reading this and typing up panicked memos to take action. And when Mr. Brayton is saying stuff like "I’ve also applied for a GB jersey if a place becomes available", "Fingers crossed", and "I’m taking it on the chin and bash on", that sounds like I'll do the best I can for me...not "one for all and all for one".

Even as a non-race fan I hope the riders can find a way to gain traction on several issues (pun intended), but at this point it looks like it'll be hard to get back in front of this snowball.
  • 3 0
 @iammarkstewart: re "sort it out", they were comments made to the camera towards UCI. The word were said half-arsed / jokingly though. They appear to have more weight as a written transcript, but the context was a Kiwi bloke being jokey jokey and the "sort it out" was more ham-fisted joke than "i will die on this hill for my belief" kind of thing.
  • 3 0
> But when you say "riders and teams aren't making money and it wouldn't be a huge loss if they quite", you've handed a lot of negotiating leverage to the UCI. You admit you're not a big deal, then say the people with the money (teams) could quit....and the riders? Yeah, mega f*cked

I think you got it the other way around. If the riders had a lot to lose, that would give a bigger leverage to UCI. Many don't have a lot to lose. Riders as a _group_ actually have value though (viewership/fans/etc) so collectively they can take it to someone else.

So that would be a win for them, and a lose for UCI. At least in downhill, I'm not that certain that they could easily replace top 40 or so riders without wounding their future prospects. At least the riders can get a place at the negotiating table.

I'm not too optimistic about it because of reasons I've mentioned earlier, but at least it might force UCI to talk to the riders instead of not giving shit about them.
  • 2 1
 @Archimonde: The riders don’t have the power. The sponsors have the power as they are paying for it all
  • 5 0
 @chrismac70: They certainly have *some* power. Power to not attend and tank any UCI event which includes them. Or the power to pack up their bags and race for/at somewhere else.

Is that power enough, that's a different discussion. Also sponsors are usually behind the riders, as long as it suits them.
  • 72 1
 Red Bull Race series:
Courses designed/built by Dan Atherton (maybe a couple not quite as hardline as Hardline) as well as some existing locations not used by the UCI (Pila would be great).
Free to view.
Red Bull assist with resource for spinal/head injuries.
Decent prize money
Good coverage of juniors and womens races.
Crucially; Rob Warner on the commentary.

Make this happen.
  • 6 0

Red Bull Bike youtube account seemed to agree during one of the urban DH live streams earlier this year.
  • 25 4
 Free to view and decent prize money don't go hand in hand.
  • 5 0
 You dont even need newly built courses, there are many amazing tracks acound the world. The problem is organizing a race under the UCI which costs a lot of money (its easily mid 6 figures number). Money that those venues are not getting back not matter how much exposure you create. Most of people from central Europe (one of the biggest mtb markets) will not go to ride to Ft William just because they host a WC race there. So you need to make races financialy viable for organizers. I believe IXS cup does that and it works, with strong sponsor that could be easily extended to cover the whole world
  • 3 0
 @Davec85: larger viewing figures equate to greater advertising revenue though, and that has to help with the prize mone, right?
  • 14 1
 Forget free. I'd gladly pay for that
  • 5 0
 @ChrisOC fully agreed but I think making the tracks hard doesn’t mean going the hardline route, we need tracks that have line choices that make for good racing, and are enjoyable for the racers, and they need to be in every continent! So tracks like VDS, Champery, Schladming, Lourdes, Pila, Maribor, Meribel, etc, albeit not just in Europe
  • 4 2
 Never going to happen as there isn’t enough roi in it for rb to want to bother.
  • 3 0
 @Davec85: Most sports are free to view on TV, etc. Hell even esports are free to view, some with huge prize pools. It's a solved problem.
  • 10 0
 I'm pretty sure most of us would now happily pay for the Red Bull/Rob Warner coverage we took for granted. If they need to charge to deliver a top-quality broadcast then that's fine. Most adults expect to pay for something that is good/worthwhile.
  • 5 0
 @vitaflo: true ...Dota 2 international 2022 has a 19 million prize pool....FOR A VIDEO GAME!!!!

#1 team walked away with $8.5 million, split between 6 people.

Imagine if the top 20 in downhill shared a 19 million prize would be life changing to a lot of these guys....very few are paying the bills on downhill biking alone
  • 5 2
 @hypermoto: you would never have guessed people would pay based on the comments on this and other threads
  • 8 0
 @Ironchefjon: the video game industry is bigger than the movie and music one combined though. DH is absolutely tiny by comparison.
  • 1 1
 @lloydfletch: Dota2 base prize pool is 1.6 million, the rest is crowd founded! Imagine if broadcast would be free and we would have a chance to contribute, why not? Maybe add some perks to contributors, like behind the scenes footage, interviews, few bikes donated that would be raffled to the contributors... If there are 700k people watching some are for sure willing to throw few bucks for the sport we all love. DH will never be huge sport, its just so specific and bound to venues, none of which are located close to where a lot of people live. Brendog did a podcast about DH where he compares it to the MX and its all true, but there is also a reason a lot of us are into bikes and not motorbikes, its just not for everyone and its perfectly fine this was, Discovery dont try to push the sport into some direction that nobody except your bank account likes!
  • 67 1
 Do not for a second be fooled into thinking that this has just come to be out of ignorance or stupidity on the part of the UCI. This is another one in a series of rule changes that were squarely aimed at disincentivizing privateers and smaller teams from competition. I'd bet money that what they are actually trying to do is restructuring the sport of DH racing into a format that is optimal for television broadcast. And Warner/Discovery is pulling the strings.

Our sport is held hostage by a broadcasting company who puts pressure onto the sanctioning body to re-shape DH racing into a format which maximizes the profits of the broadcasting company. Disgusting.
  • 12 0
 Sadly I think I have to agree, there is a far easier way of doing this so i think it’s clear this “mistake” was intentional
  • 5 0
 @Muscovir Totally agree.
  • 15 0
 Downhill has it's own spirit. Downhillracing was always different from xc or road racing. The atmosphere and respect between the riders is something I really liked. On top of that the privateers played a huge part. Everybody loves a good underdog story of a talented rider which sleeps in his van and suddenly beats the ig names in the game.
  • 3 0
 @Muscovir Nicely said and I would be a years salary you are 100% correct
  • 8 0
 "I'd bet money that what they are actually trying to do is restructuring the sport of DH racing into a format that is optimal for television broadcast. And Warner/Discovery is pulling the strings."

Absolutely. I think that was a given as soon as they took over. I don't think they would have bought the broadcasting rights otherwise. Pity Red Bull couldn't continue as they were, but it's in the hands of the Cartels now.
  • 2 4
 @tremeer023: what makes you think rb didn’t do exactly the same. They do it in plenty of other sports
  • 2 4
 @iammarkstewart: it does that by selling the show to as many as possible which keeps the sponsors happy
  • 2 0
 You hit the nail on the head, well put.
  • 63 1
 Absolutely mental that fee paying teams can bypass this point threshold. Fuck the UCI
  • 7 0
 And here I thought "Pay 2 Win" only applied to video games.
  • 48 2
 wasn't sure if pinkbike would cover this as they seem to be pushing the nothing is wrong with downhill narrative whilst the comments from fans and racers say otherwise!
  • 34 23
 We are a little late on this but it is an important issue that needs covering. Personally, I wouldn't say we have been pushing that narrative and if anything we have published more stories questioning some of the decisions this year than other sites.
  • 42 0
 @edspratt: I've got the impression you've been pulling your punches at Pinkbike and I'm sure many others feel the same too. I suppose you need access like the rest of the bike media, but there comes a time when you need to reflect what's happening below the comment line. There must be thousands of negative comments under various ESO articles, it's incredibly frustrating to see a sport we love being killed and the bike media either clap along their mates in ESO or stay silent.
  • 61 1
 @Danfsims: Thanks for the feedback, I'm always reading the comments and everyone's negativity towards this year's racing hasn't gone unnoticed. As a journalist, I feel it's not always my place to share my opinion on issues but I will say I have more worries and frustration about racing now in my fifth season of coverage than I did when I started at PB.
  • 8 0
 @edspratt: seems that the years before Pinkbike was a bit less politically correct and the way you were express your opinion in a different way and maybe a bit more coverage also
  • 4 0
 @edspratt: About the second comment you should give your opinion cuz it s also for your opinion that a lot of us are spending hours reading yours news. If i don t want an opinion i can just check the scoreboard on the uci website...
  • 17 1
 Pinkbike has always been way too close to the industry to really criticize them. Whether it was something like the issues after Aston's Enve review or not covering things like every Commencal Supreme breaking and now the issues with UCI/ESO destroying the sport, pinkbike always stays quiet. It is really sad and a big problem, therefore the industry can get away with a lot of bullshit as long as they pay the media
  • 6 0
 @edspratt: Worth looking into the smaller teams pits miles away from the venue. Might just be a venue limitation but worth a look and discussion also.
  • 21 0
 @colezordz: I've been trying to get some more information on this but strangely I have found three different venue maps with the non-elite teams/privateers in three different locations. For anyone who doesn't know what's going on, this is the view of the track from the non-elite team pits captured earlier this week by Jamie Edmondson. It may as well have been on a different mountain.
  • 12 0
 @edspratt: I'm still getting WC documentation having attended the first two rounds. Got sent a map the other day if you want to compare it to what you've found? Lemme know, I'll DM you.

Glad I'm not there though, I'm on a team but a small one and still sounds/looks complicated with the stupid pit situation. As for this ridiculous points situation, it's completely unreal. I hope they get it sorted out asap, I'm sure Adam's not the only one affected by it. They need to come up with a point allocation and then retrospectively award them to all riders who've quali'd 31st - 60th, and actually if anyone's been pushed down by a protected rider, he needs to get at least a point too. Same for the women if they are also not scoring points, which I assume they are not if they quali 11th-15th. I mean come on... you can be 15th best woman in the World and not gain ranking points. What the hell.
  • 3 0
 @edspratt: good work! what about 40euro to be someone's mechanic? Chargeable at sign on. even if a family member.... Don't know enough to comment or verify.
  • 9 0
 @edspratt: I’m here as the father (mechanic/driver/etc/etc) of a privateer junior. I can’t really put into words how awful this round has been logistically. At every step there have been obstacles. Told one day we could park in spectator parking for 20euros (and then use unreliable shuttles) and then on morning of practise refused entry and told had to drive back to La Masanna (6km ish) to buy a parking pass for 100euros, we were one of many incredibly frustrated teams/individuals. At sign on at last 3 rounds mechanics, etc got free passes/wristbands, here we had to pay 40 euros per band. Other riders we know in small teams are equally frustrated and see no advantage in paying for pits which are unusable as are so far away (eg close to 2km uphill). Also not allowed under big gazebo at finish which was put up for riders and mechanics for shade unless you have accreditation (and don’t get me started on the ‘shuttle’ service for riders). I’m not going to go on as these are only a few examples, it does feel though at this round in particular, they are trying to make it as hard as possible for those at the lower end (both logistically and financially).
  • 3 0
 @edspratt This situation around privateers and juniors seems like it needs more investigation, and highlighting by the likes of Pinkbike in its own article maybe with some comment from Chris Ball @chris-b-mtb as a follow up from the previous interviews, and inclusion of some of the experiences from the likes of @dmp75... defiantly something Pinkbike should get behind. As privateers are an important feature of our sport and if they get enough points to race there should be nothing getting in their way!
  • 4 0
 @edspratt: Here's an article idea for you, a round table discussion panel/interview with Neff and Kade on one side and the 2 UCI rep riders on the other side (Minnar and Myriam Nicole I think?), with a suitably body armoured Ben Cathro in the middle to lead & moderate it.
  • 36 0
 I've really tried to give the changes this year a fair chance. I've paid to watch, I've not moaned... But honestly, they've screwed it.

What have we gained? Finals behind a paywall. Semi finals that no one asked for. Production values down. A points system that screws riders...

I love this sport. Why mess with it? We had a good thing going.
  • 3 28
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 9:02) (Below Threshold)
 A lot more than they have lost. The finals are far better now they don’t last 3 hours with endless runs of no hopers coming down the hill
  • 19 0
 @chrismac70: Nonsense. The finals are now behind a paywall. The commentary is amateurish and uniformed. Camera angles are terrible. Awful drone shots. Don't even get me started on cutting to interviews with people on turbo trainers.... They did it in the middle of Danny Hart's run on one round. Absolute shambles.
  • 4 20
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:09) (Below Threshold)
 @Luke-R: I think the coverage is better. You are much more of the runs of the best. I think the drone footage is great and shows how fast they are going. Could it better? Of course
  • 4 15
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:35) (Below Threshold)
 @Luke-R: which I happily pay such a small amount for to watch the racing I enjoy watching.
  • 14 1
 @chrismac70: As I said, I paid the subscription and gave it a chance, despite feeling like putting it behind a pay wall is a backwards step for the growth of the sport. Unfortunately, the coverage were getting now is dire.

You'd have to be off your head to think this year's coverage and rule changes are an improvement... But I knew that when I saw you referring to riders like Adam Brayton as "wannabes". You haven't got a clue.
  • 1 18
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 12:47) (Below Threshold)
 @Luke-R: I didn’t call Adam a wannabe. The facts are that the big pro and factory teams employ the best riders. They choose who rides for them privateers are either on the way up or down or aren’t quite good enough to get a place on those top teams.
  • 14 2
 @chrismac70: I mean... You did. It's there in black and white.

While we're talking "facts", Adam Brayton has been one of the best riders from the UK for a long time. He's also been on the world cup podium. All without being on one of the big teams. "Not quite good enough"? Again, you're showing how clueless you are.

Anyway, I've probably fed the troll enough. Take a look at your down votes, give your head a wobble and have a lie down mate.
  • 3 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 25, 2023 at 1:35) (Below Threshold)
 @Luke-R: speaking of facts. This is the rule book as published on 1st Jan 2023. It look me 20 seconds to find it.
  • 36 6
 Honestly it's getting to the point where we need to gather all the downhill riders/fans in the UK/Europe/the World and protest the offices of ESO in Scotland.

They're killing the sport we love, giving their punter mates the prime commentary jobs and counting money while top riders nurse serious spinal and head injuries for absolutely sod all cash.

Chris Ball is to downhill what Elon Musk is to Twitter - only difference is Redbull could easily start another platform and we'd all stop watching the dire ESO series.
  • 6 0
 We can all protest with(out) clicks and eyeballs.
  • 30 0
 Top diplomacy from Kade. I vote he should be spokesperson for the DH riders union that was being discussed at the end of last season. He might be blunt and a bit uncouth for the UCI board members, but it's the kind of impact they need to pull their heads out of their assess
  • 10 1
 We need more riders who say what they think. Since the beginning of this whole ordeal, 99% of rider have given obvious PR answers and it's starting to trigger me.
  • 2 12
flag nickfranko (Aug 24, 2023 at 6:37) (Below Threshold)
 Kade’s words of the day: “just” “like”
  • 2 1
 I replied elsewhere with the following. And disclaimer, I'm not a race face generally, I'm just taking what he wrote as an indicator:

Due respect, but based on my union experience, Mr. Brayton's response and phrasing does not evoke "I have a plan for us to make this situation better for all". He's not the guy.

I reserve the right to take my place on the downvote podium if I've missed a pun/joke/troll in this.
  • 2 0
 Don't get me wrong but I think DH is not Kade's top priority because he is talented on many gravity disciplines.But I think for a sponsored DH only rider is is tougher to make clear standpoint, especially when you are not Bruni or Veigar.
  • 2 1
 @FloriLori: You're helping me make the point. If Mr. Brayton has the luxury of being able to walk away from this unfavourable situation with little impact to himself he's definitely the wrong person to take charge of it. And also the wrong person to make aggressive or critical statements, as he doesn't necessarily have to be around if those statements cause some sort of UCI retaliation that the others suffer for. (Don't think that wouldn't happen..."management" does that sort of thing now and again.)
  • 2 0
 @iammarkstewart: yup are right. It is sad what the uci and discovery are doing here
  • 3 0
 @iammarkstewart: I think you're mixing up Kade Edwards and Ad Brayton.

Kade does have a free ride as he's a member of the UCI registered Trek team, but you are correct in that he's primarily a speed and style rider, an event exclusive to crankworks, but it does translate well enough in media presence to warrant his place in the DH team. Because of this, Kade doesn't have his whole career tied up with the DH, which does detract from him being the ideal spokesperson, but at this stage his honesty and passion is what's required to give the directors of UCI and ESO both barrels.

Ad Brayton is one of the best supported privateers, but I imagine his sponsorship contracts are possibly KPI'd on his appearance / top 60 places at WC events. Those contracts are unlikely to have been hammered out in the short window between the final rules being released and the season starting. He's admitted that he didn't keep himself abreast of the updated rules, but even if he did, I doubt there would have been much opportunity to renegotiate his contracts.
  • 2 0
 @ROOTminus1: Apologies for that (to everyone). And I was only trying to comment on the "union" standpoint. I digressed a bit into what actions riders should or shouldn't take and who has "standing". I should have known better when I had to disclaim I am not a follower of the racing scene; those nuances can be lost on me, let alone who's who.

At any rate, I hope the riders can come out the other side of either this small points issue or what could be the bigger UCI snowball and keep their livelihoods progressing. As for the UCI changing things simply to make it better for the riders, not as much hope.
  • 29 1
 Oversight my arse. When is PB going to stop promoting a false narrative about the situation. First you try and tell us that things are better from a viewer figure perspective, now this. ESO are trying to turn DH into an elitist pursuit that'll benefit no one but themselves and do great damage to this amazing sport. Pretty much everything I've read on here since the take over seems to back them up.
  • 6 13
flag Will762 (Aug 24, 2023 at 4:31) (Below Threshold)
 Nobody was "trying" to say anything in particular. Not everything is a conspiracy. Quinny has pointed out that early Red Bull wasn't all sunshine and rainbows and I think he's right. Also your own comment contradicts yourself? "Pretty much everything I've read on here since the take over seems to back them up." So is there a "false narrative" or not?
  • 12 1
 @Will762: Sure, there were issues in the RB days, nothing's perfect, but you can point me to a video where multiple riders were calling them out for their actions?
I'm not the only one who thought the interpretation of the available viewing data was pretty skewed.
When I say back them up I mean defend their actions. No contradiction in that.
  • 14 3
 @Will762: Sorry but no. Literally every article about new WC plans being bad have one of the PB writers going "RB wasn't all sunshine and rainbows".

I get people will create dumb conspiracy theories but PB is shilling hardcore here. I mean even listening to the podcast you can hear the PB guys knee jerk reaction is "all complaints are wrong, the industry is correct" but here you get 2 articles where they try to defend the UCI. Badly at that. I get that once you are in the industry you see the other side and understand it. I worked as a small time bike journo for a while but this is not what PB is doing

RB wasn't all sunshine and rainbows but that's a pointless statement. RB was BETTER and RB didn't screw riders this hard. What matters is this is COMPARATIVELY WORSE. I won't even mention their viewing stats kinda pretending it's not bad or good for the sport since that's the worst data based article I've seen in a while and I work with data daily.
  • 3 0
 @spaced: RB didn't have much say in the organization of the races though. This year ESO took the reins on organzing the whole series and individual races from UCI and here we are.
  • 3 4
 @spaced: how do you know what rb did or didn’t do. They certainly didn’t offer more prize money to the winners
  • 2 15
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 9:06) (Below Threshold)
 World Cup racing is supposed to be elite. It’s the top of the tree. 99.99% should never get the chance to race at them. It’s supposed to be professional not wannabe racers
  • 16 0
 @chrismac70: world cup racing was elite before this stupid rule change but the old rules created a pipeline for riders without big brand sponsors to get visibility and possibly advance into the big leagues. Many top10 riders were further down the pack in the past. Not everyone gets a factory team straight from the Juniors.

Look at people like Andreas Kolb who used to get either a DNQ or around 40th place early in his career. Benoit Coulanges used to be on a small team and also used to have much lower results. So do you want to stop this pipeline so we no longer have stories like this and the only top30 riders are people who got factory suport straight from the juniors.

Also did you ride with someone who tried to qualify for the world cup under the old 80/60 rider system? I'm 100% sure they are MUCH faster than you. They are elite racers and athletes not "wannabe racers". You have no clue what you are talking about. Even the top80 field was competitive AF. National champions from smaller countries used to frequently not qualify.
  • 2 0
 @bgoldstone: on the organization? No but I remember there was some BS with Team Videographers being limited. Though yes you are correct. RB didn't have much say. There were some unsustianted rumors that some changes were based on trying to make races more feed friendly but that's all.
  • 7 0

Dude. RB didn't push for a smaller finals field. RB had better commentators and in feed graphics. RB was easier to access. Better extra materials outside of the main race feed. So this is what I mean when I say RB was better.
  • 1 22
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:06) (Below Threshold)
 @spaced: no it wasn’t. Top 60 is way too many for it to be called elite. The fact that many of the racers weren’t even good enough to get pro contracts shows they weren’t elite
  • 3 17
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:08) (Below Threshold)
 @spaced: did they. Sure Rob was great, but the actual coverage was worse. Who cares who comes 59th and got no coverage. Rb only broadcast the top 30 anyway so the rest got nothing out of it
  • 7 0
 @chrismac70: do you think somebody who comes 31st in every WC for a year isn't elite or fit to race WCs? Because if they're not on a UCI (ie paying to play) or picked by national fed, they won't get to race.
  • 5 0
 @chrismac70: having a pro contract isn't required to be elite. What if the sport is too small to have any pro contracts, is nobody elite?
  • 2 13
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 12:40) (Below Threshold)
 @lochussie: correct just like those who come 31st in pretty much any other individual sport. Elite sport is all about the best of the best
  • 5 0
 @chrismac70: so you think somebody who can consistently come 31st shouldn't be able to enter when semis have 60 and qualis more? That's crazy.
  • 5 1
 @chrismac70: no matter how many are in finals and semis, if you can consistently reach semis then you should be awarded enough points to enter qualis. That's just common sense, as you're clearly good enough for semis let alone qualis.
  • 1 4
 @spaced: I know they are all way faster than I could ever be. But then I’m a middle aged weekend warrior not an aspiring professional athlete. There would be something very wrong if that wasn’t true.

As it stands anyone who has 40 points can enter the race. There are lots of racers at the race who are on small teams or are privateers who have earnt the points
  • 4 1
 @chrismac70: down votes don’t lie you silly goose
  • 32 1
 Bring on a Red Bull Series.
  • 7 0

Red Bull Bike youtube account seems to agree as well when I asked during one of the urban DH races earlier this year
  • 25 0
 Seems the UCI won’t rest until privateers no longer exist. So much for an inclusive sport \o/
  • 26 1
 UCI - Utterly Complete Imbeciles
  • 2 0
 UCI- Utterly Certified Incompetence
  • 7 0
 UCI - Utter Can'ts Incorporated
  • 9 0
 UCI – Uncertainty, Confusion and Idiocy.
  • 3 1
 if not cause is too late I'd make some t-shirts and go sell them in Andorra
  • 6 0
 Under Construction Indefinitely
  • 7 0
 Utterly Corrupt Imbeciles
  • 4 0
 Useless Corrupt Idolocrats
  • 5 0
 UCI - Unintentional Consequences Indeed
  • 21 0
 Our sport is held hostage by a company that wants to package it up in the best format for them to turn a profit. It's not about racing or the racers
  • 6 0
 As someone who works for TV - they are not really doing a good job at packaging it. They are more working to turn it into an average TV sport with no inventiveness.
  • 2 7
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 9:04) (Below Threshold)
 Isn’t that what all broadcasters do. Do you really think rb didn’t do for any other reason than the money they made from it.
  • 19 1
 I think people miss the big picture because they're so in the bubble. In actuality, a "professional athlete" is either a professional entertainer or marketer.

In the recent article on viewership, everyone got caught up in comparing the numbers for this year versus last. But the thing that jumped out at me is that nowhere close to a meaningful number of people watch the sport. So there seems to be precious little economic value in the entertainment aspect of the sport.

Which means "professional racers" are marketers and, outside of a handful of people, aren't going to make very much money. In American football, all that money to pay players those huge salaries isn't coming from Nike, Russel, etc. It's coming from the entertainment value, because a ton of people watch the sport. And since privateers don't sell bikes, from an economic perspective there's no incentive to make things work for them (which sucks).

I don't disagree that I greatly preferred last year to this year, and I'm never going to pay for these subscriptions until they get things better sorted. But I think a lot of people's dissatisfaction is born of unrealistic expectations.

If you want to make a for the sake of the sport argument, we have a label for that: amateur sports.
  • 14 0
 Time for a wholesale change. Someone within the community can make this happen. ALL pro downhill riders would need to jump ship
  • 25 2
 Red Bull Race Series!!!
  • 4 4
 @waldo-jpg: what would that achieve. There are an awful lot on here with the rose tinted glasses on who seem to the rb was done well funded charity doing it but for the sport. It’s not it’s a ruthless multinational that serves dh as nothing more than a bit of marketing to advertise its products
  • 11 0
 There is a certain irony that Adam is sat 55th...
Imagine if the guy on the number 55 plate didnt take part in the world championship XC!!!

This is such a piddly cock up that needs sorted and the rider needs compensated now.
On the plus side, he missed getting drenched yesterday on track walk.
  • 3 10
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 9:01) (Below Threshold)
 Why should someone else miss out because the professional racer and his team didn’t follow the published rules
  • 1 0
 @chrismac70: you keep replying this but I (genuinely!) can't find the published rule - where is it?

Regs here:
  • 2 0
 @chrismac70: Oh, and totally agree, if it's in the published rules then it's fair game.
  • 1 0
 @danst1peak: I guess what I don't understand is when this was all published and why this is an issue for this race and not the last one
  • 4 0
 @johnny2shoes: That's what I'm getting at - I can't find it in the reg's, at all.

The ranking points are calculated over a rolling 52 weeks, if you look at Adam's he's got more than enough at the beginning of the season but then as the weeks roll by the points from the previous year drop off and the 'new' points he is expecting from the semi's never appear.

So in June he had enough, by August enough had dropped off (and not been replaced) that meant he dropped under the 40 limit.
  • 1 12
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:12) (Below Threshold)
 @danst1peak: it’s fairly clear. There is a maximum field size. If one is added one has to be removed
  • 2 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:13) (Below Threshold)
 @danst1peak: why was he expecting new points to appear when the rules stated he wouldn’t get any for his results
  • 4 0
 @chrismac70: you still haven’t shown me these rules you keep quoting. Show me where it says this, I genuinely can’t find it.
  • 4 0
 @chrismac70: that has the square root of naff all to do with this. If he has the points he’ll rank higher than those below him.
  • 3 0
 @danst1peak: I think it's here but it's not super clear and if anything seems to be contradictory. Seems like it is saying that you do get points for quali and semi rounds just not in the last event of the season:

4.11.013 on page 56:
In the qualifying, semi-final and final rounds, riders are awarded UCI World Cup standing points as per the scale in article 4.11.020. However, in the last round of the UCI World Cup season, no standing points for the qualifying or semi-final rounds will be given. The standing and UCI points will be awarded to the riders according to their position in the final only, as per points scale in article 4.11.020.

UCI points will be awarded to the qualifying rounds and final.

No UCI World Cup points are awarded during the juniors qualifying rounds.

In the footnote for ANNEX 3 - UCI MTB DHI points on Page 95 there's this line (typo is in the official doc): ** For the final round, no world cup points will be awared for the qualifying round, those world cup points will be given to the final instead.
  • 8 0
 Regardless of what the rules say, don't say, if they are clear or not clear.
A rider who has qualified for every top 60 has been declined entry to this round, even though he has shown through performance that he is within the to 60 in the world on a consistent and undeniable basis.
When running a test we go on results... The results show beyond doubt that Adam is a top 60 rider.
Many riders who are not as good as Adam took to B practice today.

Simply put, there is a lack of a common sense approach within the sport and this example is a very good case of how the sport is unfair (regardless of the rules) and has put someone at a disadvantage, not based on results, performances and ability, but based on an interpretation of the rules or lack of knowledge of the rules. This demonstrates without doubt that the rules are not for for purpose. Unfortunately amongst riders and racers this will tarnish the sport and be something that can be recalled as a dark moment for downhill for many years to come, potentially decades to come. When the current management look at their legacy, this and other screw ups are their legacy. They couldn't even define clearly to riders if they could jump the new pads or not and then what counted as crossing a pad. These are all clear signs of incompetence which need to be resolved.
  • 1 0
 @jessemeyers: i quote that rule earlier, it specifically says ‘UCI standing points’ (as in World Cup standings I assume), not ‘UCI ranking points’.

If the standing and ranking points are one and the same then semi final points should count - says it there, for all but the final round.

As I mention above if it’s in the rules, and clear, Ad Brayton has nothing to moan about, but, unless there is a whole different set of regs I’ve not found yet, ie a ‘how do race classes/points convert to ranking points’ then it remains a mystery as to how the UCI can change the rules without publishing them on their regs page. But it’s the UCI, useless.
  • 1 0
 @danst1peak: maybe it’s only in the French version
  • 1 0
 @danst1peak: and this line doesn’t specify the type of points.

“UCI points will be awarded to the qualifying rounds and final.”

The more I try to figure it out the less I know haha.
  • 1 1
 @danst1peak: they aren’t the same thing. That’s the whole point. Ranking points are only awarded in the finals. Series points in the semifinals. I have to say I don’t understand the point of series points but as I don’t race Im not interested enough to investigate
  • 1 0
 @chrismac70: can you pull the quote showing how they are differentiated? I couldn’t find it and there’s not glossary defining them or how the points would be earned for them differently.
  • 3 1
 Was the confusion over series points v ranking points?
I get that wee Harry can turn up to a race with a limited field and get ranking points to get a WC entry, folk have done that to get into elite for years. Harry is never gonna get into the top 60 but he has paid his money to get the points required. There is then old faithful, let's call him Fred who hasn't raced due to injury who can pitch up just for practice as he rides for a team, with no intention of racing.
There is then a third rider, let's call him Adam (the other guys names were changed), he has qualified for each works cup, but Adam works and has other commitments, let's call them a family etc, but he is elite by merit and qualified for every top 60, poor Adam hasn't put enough money into the big bosses pocket so Adam is left out!

So we have...
Harry who is there but not gonna qualify under fair conditions, he might as Adam isn't there taking a qualification spot.
Fred who pays for a team and is allowed to pitch up just for practice with no intention of racing
Adam who is good enough but has a family and hasn't paid the bosses enough money so doesn't get a race.

Think I have it now, the sport is diluted and the field not as strong as it could be to service the better off over the fastest riders.

The rules kinda make sense, just the awarding or weighting of points might be a little screwed up.

Simple rule... If you have qualified for top 60 in the last rolling year you have a guaranteed entry as you have proven yourself capable of qualifying, regardless of how many other races you have travelled too to get your points
  • 3 0
 @chrismac70: re-read it, and the Annex 3 table - I'm with you that it is in the rules. That said, they are not clear, especially as they mention 'ranking points' elsewhere. Same re standings vs UCI points. They've just screwed it all up either way...
  • 10 0
 Anyone else reckon this chrismac70 fella is an ESO employee spewing saltiness from a Tweed Valley basement?

Paid to defend the indefensible during the day and going for laps halfway up New York New York after work on his Discovery bought Santa Cruz e-bike.

He gets back, eagerly checks Strava and sighs when he realises he’ll never be as fast as the Ulster Mic Butcher Rick McLaughlin…
  • 13 0
 What happens if half the field quits UCI and goes to Crankworx
  • 15 0
 Hopefully we’ll see soon.
  • 3 1
 @stevemokan: Crankworx is under the UCI umbrella. Riders can earn points there towards the 40 they need to race World Cup. But you may see teams go that root as CW offers a bigger prize purse and more tv exposure
  • 1 7
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 9:00) (Below Threshold)
 Crankworx isn’t a ex race which is why most of the racers weren’t there
  • 10 0
 Making it up on the fly and getting it very wrong. This restructuring has been a disaster. DH was in rude health a year ago. Boo, basically
  • 15 0
 Last season was so insanely exciting to watch, i was quite literally on the edge of the sofa screaming during some runs. They absolutely blew it this year. And cedric is not making it easy to get excited even for the top 10 finalists
  • 2 0
 @waldo-jpg: they even got rid of cedric!
  • 3 0
 @jokermtb: Did they, or was that just for World Champs? I guess we'll soon find out.
  • 7 0
 When this rules were being made,nobody representing the teams and the racers was heard?
The fact that a world champion can't enter a World Cup race because he hasn't got enough points is mind blowing to me,and another nail on the downhill racing coffin.
  • 8 2
 I agreee it's not on with the big teams having pay to play, but if you're good enough you're already in, surely the whole points deal is, if you don't have enough points you fall below the cut. So if you're a 'pro' you should be Good enough to accrue the minimum required amount of points to enable you to race if that is your profession, how else are you going to draw the line? Are we saying 'Brayton is a cool guy let's let him race' or 'Brayton isn't good enough let's let others have the opportunity' surely racing is a meritocracy & your results define whether you race or not. I would suggest that the field is already too large & should be trimmed, then a regional feeder series should be set up & carry greater weight
  • 8 3
 This. You have always needed x amount of points to race world cups, this is not new. This is how you keep a world cup a truly elite level race. Brayton could have raced other sanctioned races and received enough points to race World cups. He either did not do this or was not fast enough if he did.
  • 7 0
 @johniep: i think the issue is more to do with the fact that this year the points system has changed… 30-60th in years gone by would have definitely collected enough points to race by this point in the year as they would have qualified for finals. Now with no points available for semis it’s cutting out a lot of people who are definitely fast enough to be there. Anyone who can get into Semi finals is definitely of “truly elite level” … People coming 40th in the world and are sitting in the top 60 in the overall should definitely be allowed to race.
  • 15 0
 I think it's more the fact that Brayton has qualified (and got top 40 results) in the world cups he's done this year, but that's now not enough to justify his right to race the world cups.
If qualifying at the world cups isn't enough to prove your right to be there, what is?
  • 1 12
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:53) (Below Threshold)
 @JamesKROZ: a top 40 isn’t even in the finals
  • 3 11
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:55) (Below Threshold)
 @ronanwhitts: so what you are suggesting is the him and his team either didn’t bother reading the rules or didn’t think through the consequences. That’s sound very ameteur for a professional racer and team
  • 15 0
A privateer, like Adam Brayton requires 40 points to gain entry to a World Cup race. He was personally caught out because he mistakenly believed he would be awarded UCI ranking points for the Semifinals he raced in over the last two rounds. Given the current UCI rulebook does have a table showing he’s awarded points for placing up to 60th which is in keeping with previous years then he can probably be forgiven for that mistake! The UCI ranking points only last 1 year. He found himself in this position mid-season as points from previous year are removed coupled with not being awarded any for his semifinal placing.
It's not that he's not good enough. BUT... there's plenty of pro team riders in the mix that certainly are not good enough! If your name is down on a pro team, you don’t require any points to race in the World Cup. So, if you have the cash to set up a pro team you can effectively race a WORLD cup having no prior racing experience or results! Cash is King!
  • 10 1
 @chrismac70: Did he make it through qualifying? Yes. Surely that proves he belongs at world cups.
Also, as far as I've seen none of the riders knew about these changes. On top of that, Adam is self-supported at the world cups. If he was on a factory team he wouldn't have to worry about points, the rule change is anti-privateer
  • 5 0
 @sfisher: this is the only actual explanation of what has happened. Thank you
  • 2 12
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:15) (Below Threshold)
 @sfisher: I’m sorry but if he didn’t earn enough points to replace the ones that fell away on the 12 month rule then that’s on him. No one else
  • 4 0
 @chrismac70: before the rule change (that it sounds like no one knew about) he would have had another points to qualify, I’d say it’s due to the rule change, not him.
  • 3 11
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 12:51) (Below Threshold)
 @JamesKROZ: As a professional athlete it’s your job to know the rule book.
  • 4 1
 @chrismac70: weird hill to die on man. Regardless of whether it’s Brayton’s fault or not, the rule is not good news for the sport…
  • 1 4
 @JamesKROZ: That’s exactly what the rules state. You need 40 ranking points, not series points to enter
  • 1 6
flag chrismac70 (Aug 25, 2023 at 1:42) (Below Threshold)
 @sfisher: the rules were published was back in January that explained how the points work

I found them after 20 seconds on google
  • 9 0
 Kades comment so refreshingly honest and direct
  • 4 0
 Kade is a boss, also has tons of skill to fall back outside of racing
  • 9 1
 Really hope Red Bull already has something akin to a DH series planned so they can jump in when UCI world cup falls apart
  • 6 0
 Yep, and gee can go and just practice… don’t get me wrong I’m super stoked to see him back on the hill, but I want to cheer for eski boy too! There’s no doubt this is unjust and bad for the sport as we know it.
  • 1 8
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 12:54) (Below Threshold)
 That’s because he rides for a pro factory team. He still has to qualify to race though
  • 8 1
 uci is the same s*** like all the other swiss association like IOC, FIFA, FIS, FIA, they just destroy the spirit of every sport in the name of money!
Boykott them all!
  • 5 0
 Dh is a fairly unpredictable sport. You pick 5 male riders (in your fantasy league?!!) and 1-2 will crash/have a puncture or not ride due injury. If you take this into account the field should be bigger, Greg minnar is in 25th, brook macdonald 44th and kade edwards 50th. I think the semi final thing just doesn’t work from this perspective. Having 20 protected riders is detrimental too (a protected riders status isn’t bumped over to another rider if they are injured?). There are 5 privateers in the top 60. They are at a massive disadvantage compared to a rider on a team just because of the points/semifinal structure. You could also say that some team riders are there more for their social media value than their consistently mediocre results.

N.B i found it hard to even find the overall standings the uci website is a warren. DH doesn’t come far up their agenda. Also I don’t really get a cycling federation that is prompting ebike racing???
  • 1 0
 Go to link below. Click on "Results and Live Timing" for the last race (Val di Sole) and you can download the PDFs of the standings for each division Men/Women Elite/Junior.
  • 5 0
 @Bibico: yep, it's a maze alright.
Here's an actual link to the current UCI points table!
You have to go through several pages to find the first riders below the WC cutoff score. First on the list is Harry Molloy with 39 pts, but as he's on a trade team gets the golden ticket to ride. Next up is Bryan Pfeiffer with an equal score. Even if he went and did an ixs race or whichever C1 took his fancy (the last French cup was a few weeks ago and loaded with foreign riders looking to grab some UCI points) he'd have to get his hands on one of the three French national shirts up for grabs, but as he's 26 years old, the French federation may well give him a hard pass and take a younger rider looking for race experience. That's going to be common practice in a nation with lots of high standard privateers.
  • 3 0
 @Maxcommencemal: Thank you for that link.
  • 5 0
 Simple solution: Red Bull needs to create their own World Cup downhill theories and destroy theis Discovery Channel Shark Week bullshit.

I don't mind paying for content - this is not content, it's total garbage.

Don't support it. Let it implode. How to treat pro riders.
  • 3 0
 SERIES - not theories. Thanks auto correct. Apparently can't edit from a phone comment...
  • 1 0
 as Adam Brayton says "content not quality"
  • 1 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:57) (Below Threshold)
 No chance. Not enough money in it. They weren’t even prepared to pay enough to have the broadcast rights let alone the expense of organising a series
  • 1 1
 @chrismac70: Could be a chance now - they run crankworx and that Whistler DH was OFF THE HOOK. I'll call it the single best DH track & (tv) viewing I've ever seen. I"m probably forgetting a bit b/c its all a blur in a sense, having watched DH ever since. I would never say never w/ Redbull.
  • 2 6
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 12:53) (Below Threshold)
 @Mtn-Goat-13: It was so good that virtually none of the top 20 men or women’s fields bothered to turn up. Why because their sponsors didn’t see the value in having them there.
  • 2 0
 @chrismac70: Except Valli did - she f*cking shreds. And hard. Sponsors missed out - but also the injury factor was at play w/ Worlds and the the rest of the season on.

Outta curiousity did you watch / like that race and did you see the ride from the local privateer Marcus Goguen? Probably one of the best DH runs I've ever witnessed (minus how do you actually compare some of these winning runs) but - that's easily the sickest track and I guess I'm just all worked up.
  • 1 5
flag chrismac70 (Aug 25, 2023 at 1:45) (Below Threshold)
 @Mtn-Goat-13: she certainly does. But the sponsors all decided it wasn’t worth their while going
  • 1 0
 @chrismac70: I'm not sure that's the case...maybe so, but I'm just still not sure. Crank is still under UCI. Sponsors were still there as were still many of the top riders. But another issue - the race format simply doesn't allow for DH pros to goto Crankworks easily. Easily be the key word - they intentially built the season on conflicting w/ Crankwx.

But - maybe so. I'm a doubter and I think there are probably another 27 considerations here. Mostly I'm just done w/ World Cup, after following it since (damn when did it start???) I'll check the Vital vids & PB coverage but - its a joke now. I don't care anymore. Crank is fun and wild and captures the spiriti of biking right now. I'm following that now - sponsors or not. That shit at Whistler was a race for the ages. Nothing I've seen this year w/ Discovery is close (though hey, Jax & Jordan have come out swinging and that's been good)
  • 7 0
 I dont wana whine anymore but pls give us our beloved sport back ! RedBull save us pls!
  • 2 12
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:50) (Below Threshold)
 What makes you the rb are interested. Did they do anything to increase the prize money when they were involved?
  • 4 0
 I don't quite understand and reading this a lot of you do understand. Has the number of UCI points increased since the last race? Why could he race other 2023 WCs but not this one? What has changed? Apologies if I've missed something
  • 3 0
 I think points last 12 months, rather than resetting at the start of the season. So up till now hes been relying on points scored in the first hlaf of 2022.
  • 1 0
 @AyJayDoubleyou: last half of 2022 - points drop off on a rolling 12-months, so only his points from 24th August 2022 to today matter.
  • 5 0
 Kade be looking at his freeride bike and whispering sweet nothings. ...And none of us blame him. This year has been a shitshow compared to the level of the previous few years. The riders should boycott a race.
  • 6 2
 when the UCI killed the 60 rider main event, it effectively terminated the grass-roots underdog mojo that fed the sport from the bottom up. A few years from now if this race format persits, the privateers will be gone, and so will the fans. As Kade said, way to go UCI, you killed Downhill. R.I.P. 2022 DH deceased, cause of death (corporate cleverness)
  • 5 0
 Privateers finishing outside top 30 have to go get points in IXS cup or local champs/cup. This is to make the world cup as team oriented as possible. 4-5 years from now it’s probably team only.
  • 2 0
 I doubt it will take that long if ESO get their way.
  • 1 14
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:23) (Below Threshold)
 Exactly as it should be
  • 4 0
 Time to ditch the UCI. Unless your sport is in the olympics you don't need the UCI. We definitely don't want DH in the Olympics either. You think the current environment for racing is problematic, wait and see what happens when you throw Olympic Gold medals at it. The sport would be far better off starting out fresh with a Red Bull type backer initially and do away with the need for the UCI. You actually don't need their sanctioning to run an event. You don't need their fees or their rules or the bureaucracy that goes along with it. Enduro is screwed and will wither away as well if they have their way.
  • 1 4
 @winko: if you don’t have the UCI sponsorship will reduce and national federation support will simply disappear. In the U.K. national federations provide no support to sports not sanctioned by their world governing body
  • 5 0
 C’mon Red Bull - the time is absolutely prime for a breakaway world series, with proper prize money. Watch everyone jump ship.
  • 3 6
 Funny how rb never did anything about the prize money when they were involved. Take the rose tinted specs off
  • 7 0
 UCI is the worst thing to happen to bikes ever
  • 2 1
 Was ok until Chris Balls got involved
  • 4 1
 Riders need to remember they are the reason why the sport exists and they have a lot more leverage than they think they do. This years racing has made Downhill in particular even more obscure and simply not worth taking as a career path for younger riders.
  • 1 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:51) (Below Threshold)
 No. Riders are part of the marketing machine for their sponsors
  • 3 0
 I’m not a fan of the semi-finals/finals format either from a viewer’s perspective. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it! Timed training I’d get my fantasy team together, qualifying you’d get a better sense for who was on form and the finals was the main event. I enjoyed the longer start list as the racing would get progressively more exciting towards the final riders.
  • 5 2
 If you want to make a difference, DON'T WATCH. Don't pay for the finals, don't watch the semis, don't give them your clicks/eyeballs. Check the results, watch WynTV/Cathro/etc, but stay away from the official channels. These folks are driven by money and viewership, nothing else. If the numbers tank then they'll be more inclined explore changes.
  • 4 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:36) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah you could do that. Then you will have no sport as the sponsors all pull out as they get better return on thier marketing cash elsewhere
  • 4 1
 I feel bad for all these junior riders coming up the ranks and achieving great things by just racing these races, but are now being subject to the ideocracy of UCI. UCI needs to get things together because they're only killing the sport. 30 top guys being the "mainstay" of your sport is only going to discourage the the riders outside of those top 30 from riding, making the professional pool of riders smaller. It almost seems like once you're out of juniors, you're screwed at that point if you want to make it big time.
  • 3 0
 It seems as though the concerns riders were bringing to the table before the season even started have manifested in terms of points, but also perhaps even worse than they expected. Combine this news with the World Champs last minute XC rule changes just points to the UCI being a joke in general.
  • 4 1
 new system is terrible. I'd love to see Redbull do something like Liv golf did... just create a new series. Offer the riders way more money. Go back to the system that the riders like. Go back to the style of viewing that viewers like. You pass the money on to the riders I'll pay for races no problem. The new system is terrible.
  • 7 1
 Let’s change rules during the season! Hooray!
  • 10 0
 That's not unfamiliar to the UCI, sooo...
  • 5 0
 luckily no roadies are interested otherwise they would be already have guaranteed start in top 20...
  • 2 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:53) (Below Threshold)
 This rule was in place from the start of the season. I agree what they changed at the world championships was wrong
  • 7 1
 Unfortunately this goes beyond the point of comedy
  • 3 0
 Come on Chris stand up and be counted, is it you or some faceless exec making these crazy decisions, are you trying to kill the sport of or what? patiently awaiting your reply
  • 13 0
 You'll be waiting a while, he's too busy counting his money.
  • 1 8
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:52) (Below Threshold)
 This is a uci decision not eso
  • 1 1
 @chrismac70: yes eso just do track marking
  • 5 0
 This is a sport where the fans actually care about the riders and that they're all getting a good deal!
  • 6 0
 They should collectively trip the line and take phantom DNFs in semis.
  • 5 1
 Adam Brayton was always on my top 10 riders I wanted to see! This guy is delivering a show and always give his 110%, such a shame…
  • 3 1
 UCI is so dumb, DH needs to be separate from the other cycling disciplines its just too different. Have riders earn a PRO LICENSE, you gain points racing national level races and when you gain a certain number of points you earn a pro license then you can race world cups until the day you die as long as you are able to qualify. Pro Motocross has done it this way for 50 years and its worked perfectly, make this stuff simple for gods sake.
  • 2 0
 Red Bull must be loving this, fans and riders have lost faith in Chris Ball. He clearly doesn't give a toss about the riders opinions or wages and they risk their necks every race. It would be interesting to see if riders had a chat with Red Bull as previously mentioned.
  • 2 7
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 12:57) (Below Threshold)
 What makes you think rb cared about rider wages or prize money. RB were in it to sell drinks it’s that simple. That’s why they were out bid. It was no infer commercial worth it for them
  • 2 1
 Was wondering how long PB would take to share this, had heard rumbings on rider's socials earlier this week.

This is nonsense, did the UCI give a justification for this change? Like obviously we are seeing the negative reported here, what was the benefit- because I can't even fathom?
  • 6 1
 The benefit is for ESO as it makes it easier for them to whittle the field down to 30 riders, all backed by factory teams. Turning the sport into the F! of mountain biking. Wankers.
  • 3 0
 @commental: F1 is quite boring.......and after watching the race coverage for the last 4 rounds, they've achieved that
  • 1 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:48) (Below Threshold)
 @commental: which is exactly what the World Cup is supposed to be. It’s not supposed to be for have a go wannabe They should be racing in feeder series to prove they are good enough
  • 7 0
 @chrismac70: Discovery shill NO.1 is back in the house.
  • 1 10
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:19) (Below Threshold)
 @commental: I’m no shill for anyone. I just expect pro level elite racing to be just that. You don’t watch f1 to see how someone at the back dies and there is only 20 of them and lots more with pro super licences
  • 2 0
 @chrismac70: hang on, hang on….so if I won every dh race in UK and Europe and was wealthy enough to not need a sponsor or be part of a team…I shouldn’t be allowed into World Cup races? Your comments bear no weight on the basis of your opinion as it is pure ignorance to the fundamental principles of the sport. I’ll save you a seat at our table on Christmas Day. Who needs jokes from Christmas crackers with you there. Please attend. Xxx
  • 1 5
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 13:04) (Below Threshold)
 @scottlakesmtb: if you earn the points your in. It’s that simple. Go race the events that earn points and win them. Adam hasn’t got enough points to be in at the moment as he earnt fewer points than have dropped off on the rolling 12 months. It’s not hard to understand.
  • 3 0
 @chrismac70: Smile I was referring to your response to @commental re world cups are supposed to be for factory teams, not wannabe have-a-go racers which is categorically wrong, if that was your point. Thanks for the patronisation and assumptions of my ability to understand simple math. Anyhow, We will (as usual) have lamb, pork and some feathered offering, locally sourced vegetables and a wide selection of alcoholic drinks available to suit your palate. I’ve popped a reservation on our finest chair for you. You may struggle with finding availability for accommodation at Christmas so I’ve ensured 2 rooms on our west wing are reserved for you also.
  • 1 4
 @scottlakesmtb: that’s very kind. I look forward to receiving the invitation. Do you prefer red or white wine with dinner
  • 3 0
 Why don’t the riders boycott? I mean, really do it!!! It comes semi finals time and everybody sits. Not just a few, but ALL. Just do it and things will change.
  • 5 0
 fear of reprisal and loss of income and position
  • 1 14
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:41) (Below Threshold)
 Why should the rest of the field suffer because one team didn’t bothered to read the rules before the season started. This is no one but this teams fault. It’s embarrassing they are this unprofessional. If I were a team sponsor I would be looking to get out of my commitment to such a poorly organised outfit
  • 11 0
 @chrismac70: He's a privateer, he doesn't have a team. Do you actually know anything about this sport? I guess not with all the shit you post.
  • 1 13
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:25) (Below Threshold)
 @commental: he is either a paid professional making a living racing a bit or a talented amateur.
  • 11 0
 @chrismac70: the shit you are coming out with mate I swear your actually Chris ball!
  • 2 0
 @Meganstuart1: doesn't seem to grasp the term privateer either
  • 1 0
 @Meganstuart1: I was thinking similar but no evidence to support. Wouldn’t put it past him to shed his skin as snakes do and use a new account/username.
  • 1 8
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 13:01) (Below Threshold)
 @dotman: privateer is someone who isn’t on a pro or factory team so is trying to put enough sponsorship together to make it work that way.
  • 3 0
 @scottlakesmtb: if he is not mr ball he definitely works for uci because he is responding to everyone’s comments like a proper c#nt who knows f#ck all about mtb!
  • 1 0
 @Meganstuart1: I’ve invited him for Christmas dinner given his superior knowledge and passion for downhill racing. He will bring such entertainment.

Again, without evidence we can’t speculate as to whether it is Mr Ball or not but he is becoming the epicentre for the negativity in the comments by his own accord.

The UCI has took a s**t in its hands and clapped, right in front of everyone with this rule.
  • 1 4
 @scottlakesmtb: I look forward to receiving the invitation. Should I bring my bike so we can ride?
  • 2 0
 Who is running the show UCI or Discovery channel, total shttt show screwing over the riders and the future of the sport with stupid decisions no riders wanted or asked for. Definitely needs a union.
  • 4 1
 ESO via Chris Ball bid higher than Redbull and changed the sport to fit a broadcast model. The UCI, my guess has very little incentive to impose rules as they are raking in money. Thus the change to the format is an attempt to appease hardcore fans with free content but then also appease broadcasters whittling down the field to a broadcast-able format. Ball promised the next level in the sport. In my mind even though they may have a few more cameras on the course the overall presentation has diminished in quality. Also the format change had what is a probably unintended consequence of dulling interest. More racing did not equal more excitement. The semis are lame. In my mind it's more than brining back Warner. It's the hubris at which they made changes to satisfy a broadcast model. I also doubt the ESO will listen to the avid fans. They have their shill outlet GMNB or whatever it is praising the changes and saying the hardcore fans are off base and resistant to change. It'll be a long 8 years waiting this out. Or, the numbers aren't there and they sell the rights to get out. One last thought the EWS or EDR will be a casualty from this. I wouldn't be surprised if the ESO drops the sport entirely now they have their shiny new prize in the DH and XC.
  • 2 1
 How has so many riders managed to enter this weekend that I’ve never heard of and brayton can’t even after been in the top 60 riders twice this year?
No disrespect to the other riders!
And I forgot to say since no 1 else has cared to mention it f*ck uci! Lol
  • 1 6
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:17) (Below Threshold)
 All those on fa Tory teams and those who had earnt enough points
  • 2 0
 As an example sixth place in a national DH champs gets the 40 points required. Brayton and other privateers who are not in the top 6 in natinal champs would have to race couple IXS races or national cups to get the points needed. Teams pay UCI the participation fee and can sign up riders without any points. Taylor Vernon has 37 points and can't race.
  • 1 0
 @kiisseli: I haven't seen Vernon's points (not sure where I can quickly check the "UCI points", not the WC series ranking points), but he is currently riding in Andorra, at least based on the timed training results and his Instagram?
  • 1 0
 @donimo: it’s bit hidden in but it shows Taylor Vernon has 37 points in individual ranking.
  • 1 0
 @kiisseli: So that's where it is! However, Vernon indeed seems to be racing in Andorra despite of this. (Like said, based on his Instagram he's been on track, his mechanic commented earlier on the attendance costs and he has results from yesterday's timed training): So I can only assume the date when the 40+ points needed to be "valid" for the rider to be eligible for the Andorra race maybe was some time earlier and Vernon's points have expired only since then? Meaning if he can't get points from the final this time, he'd need to find those somewhere else before the next point check date.
  • 1 0
 @donimo: It appears he’s riding under GB / British cycling jersey. National federations get a few spots to allocate freely. So no sponsors on the jersey, which sucks for privateers, but he can race.
  • 1 0
 If the viewing numbers of the live feed are kept so secret, how are sponsors deciding on their budgets? Do the teams get the numbers so they can negotiate sponsorship contracts? If so, you might be able to get some more insight through PBR.
  • 3 0
 What's the point of racing at an elite level when you're not being rewarded? Making it to the semi finals isn't easy
  • 1 10
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:46) (Below Threshold)
 If your not winning enough points then are you actually racing at elite level?
  • 4 0
 @chrismac70: not everyone wins though and are still world class
  • 1 10
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:18) (Below Threshold)
 @Saucycheese: of course not everyone wins that’s why you have to have enough points
  • 5 0
 @chrismac70: invest all that time and energy into training to make it to the semifinals and you don't get anything in return. To me that's a slap to the face. Any other sport where you make it to the semi-finals you are either compensated with points or money
  • 1 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 10:37) (Below Threshold)
 @Saucycheese: that’s cashed professional elite sport the world over in every sport in the planet. What’s your point
  • 5 0
 @chrismac70: my point is you're not getting my point and you need to go troll somewhere else
  • 3 0
 @Saucycheese: kind of agree. it's crappy, but it's not kids sports day and it's not a commercially popular sport. criteria for entry clearly make the person the other side of the entry barrier sad. I think the thing people are more angry about is the distinction between 'factory teams', where this points criteria doesn't count, and privateers, where they're harming those that arguably should receive the most support.
  • 1 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 13:07) (Below Threshold)
 @Saucycheese: clearly not. It seems very simple to me. To race you need to be either on an elite team, who presumably think you are good enough. Or to have earnt enough points at qualifying events in the last 12 months. Most don’t make it in all sports, that’s why it’s the elite and professional. Riders are getting paid to be good enough
  • 4 0
 What happened to the riders union?
  • 2 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:39) (Below Threshold)
 The riders couldn’t be bothered to put the time and effort in to make it work
  • 6 4
 Here is Chris Balls address if anyone wants to egg his house.
30 Inn it for the money lane,
I couldn’t give a toss road,
County dream killershire,
  • 2 9
flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 8:48) (Below Threshold)
 You do realise the uci make the rules not eso
  • 3 1
 Riders might be frustrated but obviously not frustrated enough to all get together and not race till changes are made. So ya’ll frustrations are in vein.
  • 4 0
 Can't even watch it anyway so who cares
  • 4 0
 @chris-b-mtb: Might have a look in here mate.
  • 1 1
 How the juniors do this year/next year with UK riders for example will be pretty interesting IMO, the UK has plenty of decent/fast juniors coming through, Will Haines, Rudi Eichorn, Luca Thurlow just to pick a few. Whether they can get out of juniors into the main ranks remains to be seen and will be really interesting to see if/how some of them pick up the required UCI points assuming this ruling that's affected Brayton is still there next season.

Someone commented 40 points can be had by getting 6th in Nationals... The problem with that is that top 6 in Nationals is incredibly hard in Elites.. For example, outside of top 6 this year were Ethan Craik, Jordan Williams, Greg Williamson... Pretty tough to get in the top 6 for sure.. Entry by picking up UCI points from IXS races may be a better way forward for some potentially, but i'll admit i don't know the scoring system in UCI terms for IXS races.

I do wonder and haven' seen it mentioned yet, what the criteria is for the UCI Elite team. What boxes/finances need to be ticked to make it to that and could 3-4 of the Privateers somehow club togehter their resources and make 'pro team' to circumvent the ruling ? Obviously different sponsors would make that complex, but depending on price/rules may be somewhat possible ?
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 I've been a union member and rep for about 20 years. I see some difficulties here for the riders.

First, union members pay dues which support a structure, which includes lawyers who know contract law and other relevant information. The UCI wins here because the riders don't have the money. The companies may or may not afford it, but may not see it as worth it. Also, the riders are too busy trying to win and/or stay relevant in a sport which requires 24/7 commitment.

Second, unions take a large number of job actions other than full-blown strikes to show their strength. The UCI and ESO imposed everything on the riders. They are probably paying close attention to the amount of push back or rider complaints, but view it as a small percentage of actual riders. There is no real pressure for them to change.

The media model is closer to other niche sports like Ironman Triathlon. These sports also have more than one governing body. As much as people on here want to compare the sport to F1 or Supercross, it doesn't compare on the business side of things. A union that can't or won't take significant job actions has no power. A fanbase that won't pay to watch isn't helping. A well organized riders union can use subscriber/viewing numbers to argue for their side. However, many "real fans" of the sport refuse to subscribe. The changes next year will be very interesting to watch.
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 I think we can all agree that this year is going well so far. Three cheers for hubris.
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 This is so sad for our beloved sport
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 Sorry, I've been distracted lately and missing out on the latest acronyms...WFT is ESO?!?! Nothing good anyway, sounds like...
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 Enduro Sports Organisation, Chris Ball's company that have teamed up with Discovery.
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 For "me" DH is already dead! But honestly we are watching DH die in real-time due to greed & short shortsightedness.
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 Prize money needs to improve. It's tragic, tragic I tell you... We could improve things, still getting ripped off in the meantime. Ferrari though.
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 Point system should give same points for all qualified riders, so being 1st or 30th in qually would be equal... It would mean less all in riding for top guys.
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 I have not seen the start list for this event, I assume there are 80 to 90 riders. They have UCI points. They knew how to get their points. Read the rules, no matter how silly the rules are, you still have to have to follow them to participate.
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 The start list for qualis has 167 Men Elite, 35 Women Elite, 85 Men Junior, and 22 Women Junior.
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 UCI needs to get fucked.
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 UCI please stop killing our sport before it kills you
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 It seems the riders are as delighted with things as those trying to follow the sport.
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 With other words, points system should stay from last year...
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flag chrismac70 (Aug 24, 2023 at 13:12) (Below Threshold)
 Or professional athletes should read the rules of their job
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 @chrismac70: the issue is not them not knowing - Brayton knew he was at risk and went to Euro champs to chase points (but got a puncture). The issue is that he should have been accruing points for making semis.

By introducing semis, but not giving points for them, UCI are deliberately making life difficult for anyone not on an elite team.
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 Kate Edwards for Prime Minister!
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