Gamux Reveal Updated Prototype Machined Gearbox DH Bike

Sep 14, 2021 at 14:29
by Henry Quinney  

You may have seen our earlier article detailing Gamux's efforts as they test and refine their prototype CNC machined gearbox downhill bike over the course of the season.

Since the Les Gets World Cup at the start of July, the team has been very busy. They set to work to make the most of an extensive testing period that concluded at the french round to fine-tune their prototype downhill bike. The outcome of this period was a desire to change the rear end of the bike and try and refine the kinematics to achieve the stiffness and ride feel they wanted.


The result is the new prototype. This bike, they say, manages to realise a lot of the changes they established needed to be made during testing. Once built up, they received this model two weeks prior to the Lenzerheide World Cup. This is the last prototype. The prototype is "98%" of what the production bike will be. The pre-order slots are open via their website and available for a small deposit.

There will be some minor alterations in terms of fine-tuning aesthetic changes for the production run. The final bike will be slightly less angular and will feature a new symmetrical rear end.

The new single-pivot setup.

The frame kinematics and frame stiffness will largely be the same, and the production bike will feature changeable dropouts so the rider can choose between three different chainstay lengths. The production bike will also feature flip-chips to change the leverage curve to optimize it for air or coil suspension. The frames will also come with headset adjustment cups to give the rider options of plus or minus 5 or 10mm and a zero offset option.

A large difference since the model in Les Gets is the change from a four-bar to a linkage-driven single pivot. This was mainly done to achieve better stiffness in the front triangle while also saving nearly a kilo in weight. They also hope to remove another 600-800 grams with the production model.

The Gamux is nothing if not slightly unconventional, even if it does come in a sleek alloy package.

Down and up, or up and down. Either way, this is a great solution to the sometimes unfavoured grip shift on other Pinion-equipped bikes.

The bike uses a Pinion gearbox to keep the weight low and remove any vulnerable componentry such as rear derailleurs. It features an interesting two-paddle system for gear changes, which is one of the neater gearbox shifting solutions to date and, in my opinion, far outdoes the grip shift you may well associate with Pinion. Gamux also feels that the Pinion gearbox offers lots of reliability that couldn't be achieved with standard gearing.

In terms of production, the bike is available for pre-order which will conclude in October. They are aiming for delivery in February. In terms of build kits, there is the option of frame only, as well potentially both Manitou and Ohlins setups.


165 Comments

  • 82 1
 Bring back the Honda RN1.
  • 25 50
flag alis66 (Sep 14, 2021 at 16:45) (Below Threshold)
 Yes one natural and one e-bike. Integrated gearbox and motor done right with all modern fixins.
  • 49 15
 @alis66: No ebike
  • 3 8
flag whilgenb (Sep 14, 2021 at 20:09) (Below Threshold)
 I'm going to go with a CNC machined Empire AP-1 instead.

dirtmountainbike.com/dirt-100-2015/empire.html
  • 44 6
 Yes. Gearbox, high pivot, lightweight, modern geometry. I will sell all my bikes and buy one.

Edit: not sure how I feel about this outside plus thing. It used to just be PB plus, back when I was supporting an independent website that I loved, that I had, but I'm not really sure I want to be associated with outside. Has a different feel and different standards.
  • 34 0
 Let’s all take a moment to thank outside plus and consider donating real money for a fake sticker online that improves our reputation to strangers that care so much
  • 31 0
 @hmstuna: haven't seen an 'Outside+' tag!
  • 7 0
 @whilgenb: Isn't the Empire die cast?
  • 5 0
 @hmstuna: ya no take that shit off. First time I’ve seen it and I like to think I have an open mind but . . . I don’t like it. What features can u see that I can’t? Did they send u a tshirt or a koozie? Was it white claw size?
  • 7 0
 @hmstuna: my friend used to work for Outside and left because she was writing articles like "7 must have gadgets for your next adventure" haha
  • 7 0
 @hmstuna: just added that obnoxious Outside+ tag to the Adblock list!
  • 2 0
 @Brklss: Good idea, with uBlock Origin, it was literally 2 clicks! Right-click -> Block element. Never to be seen again
  • 1 0
 @whilgenb: Empire AP-1 was casted, not CNC made
  • 1 0
 @whilgenb: its not cnc machined and the company no longer exist's.
  • 2 0
 @nojzilla: wasnt it squeeze cast or sand cast by some foundry oop north of england?
  • 1 0
 @downhiller900sl: nope they had a cnc machined version too our tooling suppier called WNT had one stood in their showroom www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs5Qx_updCM
  • 1 0
 @whilgenb: I had one of those...stunning bike. Wish I never sold it but in the end I hardly ever used it as my local trails are more xc so it just sat in the garage looking pretty apart from once/twice a year trips to Wales.
I thought of the same bike the moment I saw this. I'm guessing the downvotes are because people are picky over the empire being cast with some finishing machining which is quite different from this.
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: that's a different bike though....the ap1 (which is much nicer inmho) was cast
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: I did speak to them at Fort Bill 2013 as I work in an Alu foundry! but, so long ago I can't remember!! :'D Did chat about the production for ages though...
  • 1 0
 @rabidmonkfish: my VX8 had a cast back end, cut and welded / machined front end

www.pinkbike.com/photo/12167463
  • 1 0
 @rabidmonkfish: no they actually had a machined one it was fully machined hung on the wall from memory the sales rep said he was mates with someone at either the machining company or empire , reason we remeber it was machined becasue we all went wtaf that must have cost a fortune , tis was years ago i thing the video was the one to try and make a cheper version?? dunno
  • 1 0
 @rabidmonkfish: im trying to find the video they made some fuss out of machining it out of massive blocks of ally that was the only vid i could find, for same reason i remeber lots of anodised blue too
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: f*cking hell really i need some quotes for my wheel truing stands , thinking about casting them
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: if you can find a good sand foundry they should be able to mold some from the old ones but, if it's anything like where I work.....
I'd just buy some nu'uns!!
  • 2 0
 Bring back Morewood!
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: ok we machine them out of solid billet at the minute ironically but its a bloody waste i thought if i could find a good casting source might save me some time
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: Oh mass production? Well, we do die or sand. Die castings are better an a more reliable for mass process but, there's the expense of having the tooling made so if you want like hundreds of parts a year......?
Sand is cheaper as we make a wooden pattern to make the sand moulds, probably better for your needs as they're not under pressure or much tensile strength like motor or hydraulic parts. Sand casting is more prone to the inherrent flaws of casting and better for lower production rates.Then they're still gonna need some last CNC work for precision
But still, if your'e only wanting a few parts a year, then CNC from billet would be more cost effective
  • 1 0
 Iol
  • 2 0
 @nojzilla: these artisan wheelbuilders love a bit of rough and ready tooling pattern and stuff pm me the compqny you work for
  • 1 0
 Nice Box
  • 29 3
 I still want to see how torsionally rigid that frame is. I-beams are not typically good with torsion.
  • 11 20
flag omie99 (Sep 14, 2021 at 17:08) (Below Threshold)
 everything breaks down with torsion.. steel, carbon, aluminum alloy.. They build bridges out of I beams for a reason and they do get a lot of twisting from the winds.. not disagreeing with you, but this is not that bad looking of a frame, and nice to see some fresh ideas
  • 25 1
 @omie99: it could be (and probably is) totally fine. I designed/engineered heavy duty trailers for the better part of a decade, with lots of weird offset loads. It has nothing to do with the material and all to do with the fact that I-beams twist like crazy compared to a comparably sized/weight boxed section.
  • 11 7
 @omie99: bridges are not 2D structures like the front triangle of a bike.
  • 40 1
 The Dorado absorbs the torsion first.
  • 1 2
 Agreed, it also seems line a C-channel shape facing down would be a better option and eliminate the need to machine from both sides.
  • 9 4
 I agree that I beams are not great in torsion. The question should be however, is it torsionally stiff enough and is it too torsionally stiff. The bicycle industry was sold the lie of frame stiffness largely due to the cracking of ally frames. The modulous of elasticity on ally frames was such that the only way to prevent cracking was to make the structure stiffer.

I’m more concerned here as to why is a very inefficient manufacturing method being used to make a bicycle.
  • 2 0
 "...and that is because the power of the World always works in circles..."
-Black Elk

Cool concept, anyway.
  • 4 2
 Agreed, an I-beam is a horrible shape for a bicycle frame tube. The only way to make it stiff enough is to add a boat-load of material. I-beams are for 3D structures that are bolted or riveted together.
  • 1 0
 @bogey: precisely! If they weren’t so much more convenient than hollow sections, they wouldn’t be used. And when the loads on individual members start to really get big (and upsizing is impractical (like in some bridge/gantry cranes for example), those I beams get switched with boxed profiles.

This is an attempt to reduce cycle time, tooling, and will come at a significant weight penalty. Theoretically the above design could be done with two sides facing the machine. If they were to make it feature more hollow areas it would take minimum twice the handling into and out of the tooling/machine. It also would require bonding of frame halves together. Which in theory compromises the performance of hollow shapes, but IMO not to the same extent as the I beam shape does.

I would be interested in one (in theory) if it didn’t go down the I beam path. Still, I think this is a very cool achievement.
  • 3 1
 @JoshieK: does it matter it might be what they want to do ,
  • 2 1
 @letsgoridebikes18:pretty sure a bit of flexibility for the road is a good thing like it is in bikes completely rigid things not bueno
  • 1 1
 bond caerbon fibre c channels in though and that changes the numbers slightly...then again you might have just made it out of tubes
  • 2 1
 @JoshieK: I think you dont know what gamux want to archive.
They said they want to create a customer only frame. Meaning you choose the model and with in the limits of its design you choose the geo. That is a pretty easy way to make custom frames. Do that with regular tubing and I doubt you are faster because of all the other things you need to do first.

I also dont think you are faster if you are a real small company if you do the traditional way. Frame Welders are way more rare in the EU then just a machine engineering contractor. I have 30 companies around me, 50km max. Guess how much frame welder ? Zero...

I saw how much training Nicolai put into their welding guys. You need a already trained person who took 3,5years to get that degree and then train it inhouse for another year. Before he ever can touch a real frame.

CNC tooling on the other hand is way more easy.
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: I think that additive processing would likely be close to being on par with a large 2 op CNC frame these days. If it is more expensive not by that much.

A friend of mine works at a company that makes cars with 3D printed chassis and is saying that their cost is pretty much on par with the forgings done in high end car chassis, like an Aston Martin.

If they are trying to be a small boutique, 100% custom geometry bike company, why not go all the way?
  • 1 0
 @insertfunusername: There are not that much companies around for that right now. That will change because this is the actual future.
I never looked to deep into the process so I cant say shit about it otherwise then there are not that many that do this and have a capacity.

The only other thing I know is that the printing is just not as fast as Milling that thing.

Also you need to engineer it different then a milled frame and it could be that they don't have that kind of knowledge right now.

Would be cool to se a bionic printed FS frame though.
  • 1 1
 @insertfunusername: empire also made a 3d printed frame it was again one if those odd things that renishaw showed us when in the early days they were punting their machines to potential buyers
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: The technology is changing very fast right now. The newest printers that my friend works with have 13 heads and so they get work done pretty fast. There are some differences in how you need to engineer it, but really it just opens up a lot of opportunities. True though that perhaps they are comfortable with this tech and it is pretty easy to make changes when people want different geo.

But, the opportunities available with 3D printed frames could be really amazing. Suddenly internal routed housing is structural, and why can't you just thread your rear brake housing into the frame at the head tube using the internal routing as your brake line. Funny shaped frames are just the bonus.
  • 1 0
 @insertfunusername: Yeah that is for sure. I am in the QC department for a big ass corp and we are switching from our regular CNC based tool manufacturing inhouse to 3D printing also inhouse and actually a machine for us and not just another department. I am exited about that. I was a CNC contractor for a decade and I am all in for that opportunity to learn the new stuff. This still will not be my daily job as I am testing most mechanical products but because I need those mountings I will draw them.
  • 2 1
 @Serpentras: machining out large chunks of raw stock into very slender components is inefficient in all areas, cost, time, waste, energy consumption.

A CNC machinist is about 4-5 years of training, it’s no less of a trade than a fabricator. Plus you need to couple that machinist with a machine worth hundreds of thousands of dollars (50,000 will get you an entry level 3 axis with a small work envolope, a 5 axis machine with a good size envelope will be above 200k and you haven’t bought any tooling for it yet).

Those 30 machine companies near you are going to laugh a CNC bike frame idea out there door. There is far more profitable jobs they can and will do with their machines.
  • 1 0
 @JoshieK: I think you are under estimating the amount of work that it takes to get a welded bike to actually meet tolerances. It is a very specialized type of welding fab, that no regular fab shop would be willing to undertake, if they know what they are getting into.
  • 2 1
 @JoshieK: So whats your experience in this kind of field? 4-5 years of training sounds funny to me when we typical got it in 3 years.
I don't talk about a regular fabricator, I don't know if your actually involved in development and the stuff we deal in QC for just get one contractor that's good enough.
Not to mention that its so easy nowadays to get the CNC ready. Most of them can and will chug the CAD. Do you need a machinist still for that ? Yes but he doesn't do that much then correct it a bit and over watch the machine for a bit. Did you wrote your programs on the oldest type of machines? I did and it was so freaking slow. I also laugh about the new machines because they are so f*cking fragile and under engineered.



Yeah they will laugh and will make Trickstuff brakes instead Wink
  • 2 1
 @insertfunusername: I’m not under estimating, I fabricate bicycle frames , specifically mtb frames. You can do it with fairly basic and common tools.

There is a reason why, beyond a few overpriced frames no one is CNCing entire frames.
  • 2 0
 @JoshieK: So you know how much cold setting and post welding machining goes on.

I haven't welded a bike frame, but am planning on doing it here shortly, but I have welded up several small race car frames. Getting everything to hold tolerance is so much harder when dealing with a welded piece than a machined piece.

I do agree though that a wholly CNC'd bike is quite wastefull, and that is why I was wondering why they didn't go for a fully 3D printed frame for this type of application, of super low volume, and customizable bike, that seems like the right method to me.
  • 2 1
 @JoshieK: the best way to make a durable, welded aluminum frame is to engineer a bit of flex into it. You absolutely do not want it too stiff because that transfers too much of the load into the welds. The industry has been through this cycle already and has learned from this mistake. Too stiff causes weld failures so you need to engineer in some compliance by butting the tubes and keeping the tube diameters at a reasonable size.
The best part about this is that you get a better riding frame too.
  • 1 2
 @bogey: so you take a material which has a low plastic deformation limit and you expose it to more deformation to prevent it from plastically deforming. News to me...
  • 1 1
 @JoshieK: you lower the stresses in places with big stress risers (welds). Quite simple - every bike company has done it. For some great history on this, look at Cannondale. I was involved in it during the Easton RAD tubing era.
  • 1 2
 @insertfunusername: I’ve made 25 plus frames and never cold set any. Good jigs, proper cut mitres and considerate planing on weld sequence and you can build a frame within tolerance without much trouble.

Post weld machining can be done with simple and basic hand tools available to even a hobby builder.

As for 3D printing, same machine cost time is the same and still requires post machining, add to that an inconsistent dendritic structure of the material and you discover why not much of anything that is load bearing is 3D printed.

I use 3D prints for very small items for investment casting. (Smaller than your fist) Some of these prints take up to 7 hours if they are complex. Expand that up to the size of a frame. Factor in the cost of running a laser for that long and the cost of the printer medium and you can understand why 3D printing anything large is inefficient. 3D printing on that sort of scale really only has its advantages in providing internal component details that would be impossible with more conventional methods. It does have its place.
Making bicycle frames? If you want to spend 20k then I guess.
  • 1 0
 @JoshieK:
Printer media price is coming down dramatically all the time. The speed is pretty quick since newer machines have as many as 13 heads.

They can control the grain structure of the material by what angles that the lasers are at. People are printing hypercar chassis out of aluminum, so I think that it could be figured out how to make a bike frame that is strong enough.

I haven't done a cost analysis on what it may cost to print a frame but maybe I'll ask my friend that is quite familiar with the newest printers. I'm not guessing that they would be super cheap, but I kind of bet it would be under 20k.
  • 1 0
 @JoshieK: so I take that as you are not trained on CNC machines.
I have billed out v12 block's out of Al. The so called waste would be the same for this frame. You don't need a thick slab.
  • 1 1
 @insertfunusername: they’ve made improvements to the grain structures using said methods but the mechanical properties are still not comparable to conventional methods.

They are print parts of chassis’s, and well it’s a hyper car, there not exactly high production or cost effective vehicles.

And for that added cost, even if I’m being hyperbolic, what are you getting for your extra cash apart from “I have a 3D printed bike”?
  • 1 2
 @Serpentras: you are going to compare the waste of a CNC bicycle frame to that of a CNC engine block (I presume that is what the v12 you refer to is?) and then say “look it’s less waste.”

That’s funny
  • 1 1
 @bogey: decreasing rigidity increases stress... material is added at the joint by means of a butt or gusset to transmit stress. It increases the joint rigidity, it’s why you see frames crack behind the butt or gusset- you’ve just shifted the stress from the joint to the reduced wall thickness section. It’s not often not the weld that fails but the parent material next to the weld.

Besides that you are still comparing big apples to little apples. Ally frames are still stiffer than comparable steel or crfp
  • 1 1
 @JoshieK: this statement right here shows what you know about frame design “ Besides that you are still comparing big apples to little apples. Ally frames are still stiffer than comparable steel or crfp”. This is absolutely incorrect for cfrp.
  • 1 2
 @bogey: you do understand the word comparable yes?

Would you rate aluminium ove Cfrp for a flexors joint?
  • 1 2
 @bogey: oh you were doing well till you said aluminium is stiffer unfortunately material science says opposite
  • 1 1
 @JoshieK:you should really either improve your knowledge or look at what industry is actually doing
  • 1 1
 @Compositepro: I never said aluminium is stiffer, you are building a strawman. A bicycle frame is a structure. Many things affect the rigidity of that structure apart from the material it’s made of. It’s possible to make a frame out of spruce that is stiffer than steel, ally or Cfrp.

It might be you who is lacking understanding if that’s what you’ve reduced the conversation too and perhaps cannodale is better off without you.
  • 1 1
 @Serpentras: guy said he worked in top level motorsport we find out he s a pac rim racer lol
  • 1 1
 @Compositepro: and ignore my second paragraph I mis attributed someone else to your stupid reductive argument. I apologise to them.
  • 1 1
 Look mate go and read some more copies of race car engineering theres plenty more dumbed down articles for you to read in there and then regurgitate on the internet ,
  • 1 1
 @JoshieK: oh dont worry we tend to Ignore absolutely everything you say
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: says the guy who just flat out makes shit up...
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: for a “pro” all you have done is make shit up, get called on it and then proceed to sling shit around like you right all while presenting nothing of your own. Unless of course slinging shit is all you have to call your own?
  • 1 1
 @JoshieK: were still laughing at you
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: hmm, where did I say that?? I said the opposite.
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: keep slinging mud, it’s definitely making you sound like a low iq knuckle dragger.
  • 1 1
 @JoshieK: like a drwning man gasping for air, why dont you roll out more of those credentials you though would impress you can add 25 frames built to your oh so impressive resume
  • 1 2
 @bogey: “Ally frames are still stiffer than comparable steel or crfp“
  • 1 2
 @bogey: but i was right with you till i read that i though EH? Maybe not in context
  • 1 1
 @Compositepro: all you need to do to keep up the appearance of being a wanka is to keep slinging mud. It’s all you’ve got in your weak pathetic mind.
  • 1 0
 @JoshieK: all you need to do is realize like me your irrelevant but you keep thinking your special princess
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: yes, that was quoting @JoshieK which why I was replying to him and used quotes.
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: projecting your own insecurities onto others. You should seek help
  • 2 1
 @bogey: ah gotcha i thought it read funny
  • 1 1
 @JoshieK: The car I was referring to uses 3D printing for nearly all of its structural components. The control arms and all of the chassis structure are made by 3D printing the car also holds the lap record at Laguna Seca for a street car, so it isn't just for show, the stuff actually works. Czinger is the car I was referring to.

I'm not saying that making a 3D printed bike is the most economical, but the economics are changing constantly in this area. The reason you would want to 3D print a bike is pretty obvious. If you wanted to try a new design you could do the computer work and then just print it and have that new front triangle or whatever part, the next day, no real fabrication needed. There is very little wasted material, no machining tool wear. If the economics work, a company like the one in this article could 3D print their custom one off designs for customers instead of CNCing the frames. You are able to totally optimize the structure, without needing to compromise or work inside the confines of traditional manufacturing methods, like low manufacturing ops or needing to use common tooling.

Since this tech is changing so fast we will probably know where it will be heading in a few years, likely right as all the manufacturers switch over from carbon frames to all printed frames.
  • 1 0
 @JoshieK: still laughing at the fact you havent figured out its not about you no one cares about how you would do it …..you havent produced anything of merit to warrant a press release
  • 23 7
 @Henry Quinney Have you used the gripshift on a pinion? Not saying that this trigger paddle is good/bad/otherwise but the gripshift on the pinion is very good. I prefer it over trigger any day after 4 years use...
  • 62 1
 Enough of your logic and real-world experience, sir. This is the Pinkbike comments.
  • 6 1
 Yep - gripshift paired with pinion is great. I haven't tried trigger with the pinion, but feel like is would hinder the speed to change through the gears. Click say 6 times with your thumb, or just 1 braaap and you're there.
  • 13 0
 Yeah, that's fair. I'm going to amend it to "in my opinion..."

For me, I'm not a fan of the grip shift, nor the two-cables from one shifter look. I have had a play on one and the odd ride but I've never owned a bike with one so who am I to say really? I do I think though that it's seen as one of the barriers for a wider uptake of the Pinion system. Horses for courses though. Cheers
  • 3 0
 I have not used gripshift with a pinion, but I have used gripshift with a regular derailleur. Gripshift was fine untill you need to brake and shift at the same time, like you may want to while descending. It was fine on my mid 90's XC bike, but I much prefer a trigger shifter in all situations now that they have worked out the ergonomics.
  • 2 0
 @insertfunusername: you are spot on. Trigger pairs beautifully with derailleur system (absolutely heinous with gripshift). Gripshift pairs beautifully with a pinion gearbox.
It's the shifting mechanism as a whole system that needs to be considered instead of individual components.
  • 1 0
 I found the gripshit absolutely awful on my Pinion bike. You can’t shift and brake so riding any techs trail blind is really difficult. I’ve got the Cinq setup Gamux are using and it’s way better. Yeah it would be ideal to be able to shift more than one gear with each push but there’s no way I’m going back.
  • 4 1
 @fish-monkey: can you elaborate on this? Given shifting with the pinion is nearly instantaneous, why wouldn’t you just shift before you start pedalling? It’s not like you pedal while you brake.
  • 4 0
 My issue with grip shift is that i tend to let my hands roll backward and forwards a little bit on the bars rather than having a fixed grip. I demo'd a Diamondback DH with gearbox way back in 2009, it led to alot of accidental shifts using my normal grip instead i had to move hand outward on the bar so it didn't contact the shifter which meant having to move my whole hand on the bar every time i wanted to shift.
  • 2 0
 @emrysevans: if you need to shift while braking you pedal while braking.

It typically happens when you don't know something real well and you find yourself coming in hot, into a corner that is going to pop you up a bit of a hill or rough, flatter section. Big advantage to be able to hit the brakes, then get one full pedal stroke in, while ratcheting up 3 or 5 gears real quick. When I used grip shift I would have to move my hand over to get to the shifter then twist. Definitely couldn't do that while on the brakes.
  • 1 0
 @McMeta666: this too was a problem for me, when I had grip shift. The shift mechanism itself I have no major issue with but moving my hands around wasn’t compatible with gripshift. I found myself moving my hands in and out across the bar. Moving to a trigger shifter, had an immediate and lasting impact on my riding.

I wish pinion really paid attention to our cries for a trigger shifting mechanism. It is a significant obstacle for me to buying a gearbox bike. The cinq shifters are a step in the right direction but not nearly enough to get me on a pinion equipped bike, which I would happily pay a premium for over other boutique frame/bikes
  • 1 0
 @fish-monkey: did you get the shifter direct from cinq? Love my zerode but would be keen to try a trigger. I can only see road bike shifters on the cinq website? You have a link?
  • 1 0
 @emrysevans: Basically what @insertfunusername said. If you come into a section blind that suddenly goes uphill but you’re still on the down and need to brake you can’t shift gear with the gripshit until you can come off the brakes which is frequently when you need to be pedalling already. With the Cinq shifter, you can change on the way down and be ready to go in a better gear. It’s also great that you don’t need to pedal to change gear on a Pinion ‘box which makes this kind of move all the more satisfying!

@chopper-uk cinq.de/en/shifting-technology/428/shift-r-tour-for-pinion These are the ones you want for an MTB. Still not anywhere near as good as the big Ess’s triggers and bloody expensive but a massive upgrade for me.
  • 1 0
 @fish-monkey: just get the new effigear, trigger shifting, shifting while you pedal. lighter then pinion but the downside would be its 9 speed only. Still enough for any DH in my opinion and because they announced it I want to get a gearbox Enduro right now. Sadly there is only ONE damn thing I know of avalible and its the Zerode Katipo.
Why did I mention effigear at all? Because they use the Pinion mounting now.
www.effigear.com/en/86-The-Mimic.html
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: Yeah, I've seen the Mimic and thought about it for my Deviate Guide but think it's too few gears. My next DH will hopefully have a Mimic though...
  • 2 0
 This is ridiculous, a rotary is inferior in EVERY WAY: 1) it twists your wrist so you have to ungrip to shift; making downhill shifting a DANGEROUS gamble; even small maneuvers become just weird 2) you can only buy a small amount of grips being left with very very very limited choice 3) it makes your grip inconsistent because the right is thicker than left 3) you have the same inconsistency with brake lever choices AND TRAVEL !!!! 4) yes you can switch all gears at once so can you with thumb shifter ! I don't understand why there is a cult following for a an inferior aberation but the truth will come out one day. Seriously; sound slike to me you must be paid to post that kind of $$$%% and if you want proof ask any EWS of UCI racer ok ?
  • 2 0
 Excuse me, none of you have an outside+ badge next to your names, so your opinions aren't valid
  • 1 1
 @UpnUp: I have grip shifter on my gravel/adventure/touring bike (SRAM XX0 w/ XT derailleur) and normal trigger shifters on my two MTB's. I really really like the grip for that particular bike and would never go back. I even take it on easy single track and it's a joy. It is far from inferior in EVERY WAY.
  • 13 1
 I'm certain this is a dumb question, but how much do you need to change gears on a downhill bike anyway?
  • 4 0
 Exactly the reason I switched to single speed on my dh bike. Or chainless if all else fails.
  • 4 2
 @pikebait2013: a dh bike is the last bike in the world I'd care about having a pinion. I mean, if you are gonna pedal that much on of your dropper levers should probably actuate a dropper.
  • 2 0
 Not dumb at all - it's the right question.
  • 7 0
 only on our way to mcdonalds while drinking 8 beers
  • 2 0
 @pikebait2013: SS FTW SO much more fun!
  • 3 0
 More than you would think. (At least in a race scenario, which I assume is the geared application - pun fully intended)
I find I'm often shifting coming into sections where I know I will exit with more speed, or I need to gear down for something more technical. If you make a mistake, and need to pedal to make up time, it's probably a good idea you in the correct gear. Sometimes throwing in a couple pedal strokes from time to time to gain some momentum may be required as well. Adding into the fact, that being in too high of a gear in the wrong sections can inhibit suspension performance (sustention layout dependant).
The amount of gearing on the other hand is less important, as I would typically shift across maybe 4-5 gears during a run.
  • 11 0
 I anticipate that lower front chain guide / tensioner setup is gonna get the shit kicked out of it.
  • 2 0
 Can't agree more
  • 2 0
 Huck to flat shear point
  • 8 1
 Continuing the fine PB tradition of not publishing (or even mentioning) the weight of bikes where weight is the KEY down side of the design/material choices the bike company has made...
  • 6 0
 Is anyone else concerned about the sharpness of those edges in a crash? Like a bunch of dull swords attacking you in a tumble.
  • 3 0
 Came here looking for other concerned citizens. That was exactly my first thought. Ouch. It’s not April 1st, right?
  • 1 0
 Yes, I was suprised I had to scroll down that far in the comments. Everyone is always so concerned about endcaps on hte bar (for a very good reason) but then there is no mention here? The frame for sure has excellent bone snapping edges all around.
  • 1 0
 I was thinking the same thing. This thing it going to break and bruise people with its myriad of edges in a crash. It hurts when you get caught up in nice rounded tubing in a crash, wouldn’t want to “experience” these edges.
  • 5 1
 The amount of mud that will pack itself into that frame and linkages will be staggering. Certainly beautiful to admire but I will. I would not want to deal with the cleaning and maintenance nightmare that will follow.

Either way dammit we need to see more raw aluminum bikes. I love a good carbon bike but I’d get an industrial shiny metal bike over a plastic one any day.
  • 3 0
 The gearbox solution with the two changers is spot on. On a sports or race car with paddles this how you would shift up or down. Why not the same on bikes makes perfect sense.
  • 2 0
 Why I-beam ? why not to use conventional butted tubes? Yep it does look cool , and you can CNS it, however does it give you any advantage in terms or performance , cost, whatever ?
  • 2 0
 This thing is the tech equivalent to someone making the grim donut bit being dead serious about it. So different, so freaking awesome. Sure it'll take time to refine if it makes it but wow, what a cool new thing
  • 3 0
 Tubeless tires, tubeless frame. Well except for that pesky head tube and seat tube...
  • 4 0
 Nice sold with Manitou and Ohlins nice change from the norm.
  • 2 0
 I tend to sometimes steer my bike with my calves against the top tube. Would not want to do that here. Also, the galvanised hardware on this looks a bit cheapo.
  • 1 0
 I think it looks great, but whenever I look at frames like that I think, that would be a sod to keep clean with all the mud collecting areas. Also I'd tear that front derailleur off with the first bad case
  • 3 0
 front triangle fabricated by Ifor Williams Trailers
  • 2 0
 LOVE the 'I-Beam' frame - but I'd prefer an Effigear drivetrain... >.>
  • 2 2
 Had 4 years on a Taniwha still got it but i find since i got my mottera ebike i dont ride it much but man i sure do i miss the pinion and the the grip shift. I would never ever swap the gripshift for paddles
  • 3 0
 But BUT water bottle!! (Shits pants in anger)
  • 1 0
 Because of this information Levy has now recessed himself into a corner, and has begun hyperventilating due to uncontrollable sobs of joy.
  • 2 0
 My knees hurt just from starring at the top tube. Otherwise I love the shape of the bike
  • 3 0
 Needs to be wireless.
  • 2 0
 Pole bikes should hit up Garmux on how to not make an ugly bike.
  • 2 0
 that thing is going to need a top tube pad
  • 2 0
 Man do I hate tubes. Strong, light, cheap, no sharp edges... They SUCK.
  • 1 0
 added a gearbox to "solve the derailleur problem", puts an idler in an even worse place!!!!
  • 2 0
 I still love my Zerode DH bike.
  • 8 8
 I know you guys are gonna love it but I think it's hideous. Not a hater, just representing the viewpoint.
  • 1 0
 first frame with external routing looks kinda neat in a weird way
  • 1 0
 seriously considering this if I can afford it obviously
  • 1 0
 You can store all your energy bars in the i-beam downtube - handy!
  • 7 0
 *downbeam
  • 1 1
 Don't forget about the top tube storage solution as well, TWAT Razz
  • 1 0
 Hell yeah...I like I-beam construction...that thing is badass
  • 1 0
 They need some bamboo on that... maybe the bars
  • 1 0
 This rental grips are the best ever made
  • 1 0
 looks nice. Hazzard a guess the math vs reality don't check out
  • 1 0
 Looks like a......... Empire AP-1 DH... Cool looking bike!
  • 2 0
 My girders that's neat
  • 1 0
 I love it and I want one as a forever park bike. Sue me.
  • 1 0
 That looks incredible! Nice work!
  • 1 0
 reminds me of a turner dhr
  • 1 0
 This is the Mountain biking i was fighting for!
  • 1 0
 Purdy!
  • 1 0
 I-beams tubes
  • 1 0
 Ugh
  • 1 0
 Frame loves the mud!
  • 1 0
 What handlebar is that?
  • 1 0
 Hash tag pound Honda.
  • 1 0
 Cutting Edge technologie
  • 1 2
 would be nice in carbon fiber...
  • 1 1
 Because is crap!

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