I think my colleagues sometimes think of me as willfully and deliberately contrarian. While I wouldn't want to disagree with them and prove them forever correct, I don't think it's true. Similarly, I don't think I'm grumpy or negative. I am, however, British, and we do revelling in misery and bitterness better than anyone else and I'm not above leaning into that.
When I first started mountain biking I considered group riding to be the be-all-and-end-all, and it's something I carried through for many years. You simply have to enjoy it, right? Friends, nature, complicated coffee orders, and things taking five times as long as they should. Ah, perfect.
For some reason, I always felt like I was rejecting some part of mountain biking or not doing my bit, but the truth is that I genuinely hate group rides.
Yes, I find faff frustrating and will admit to holding resentment against people who seem more about disrupting the continuity of a ride rather than encouraging the flow. I like to think I'm quite a relaxed, friendly person, but if you happen to be experimenting with finding the perfect saddle height for pedalling efficiency on a ride I will probably scratch you off the list of could-be regular riding friends.
A perfect ride for me is when your feet don't touch the ground. You feel a state of flow as your move through the landscape. Just a dot making its own small way across the enormity of earth. At the top of the run, at the very most, you maybe have a biscuit and piss (in whichever order you prefer) before hoping for the best and dropping in. And that's at a push. Ideally, eating can be done on the move. It's mountain biking and not a teddy bear's picnic for goodness' sake. That said, pissing on the move isn't necessitated, or indeed on cold rides potentially even possible.
No, don't change that tubeless tire in the car park. Yes, putting your jacket on and off every five minutes is annoying. No, I don't want to have a five-minute trip-down-memory-lane as we wait at the corner of every switchback. Yes, I do expect your bike to be in working order. No, I don't care who's faster than who. Yes, spending 20 minutes on a random turn to get the insta-click-wondershit photo of you is my very idea of hell.
Over the past couple of years, I've mainly just ridden by myself. I once tried to get Mike Levy out for a ride but he told me he was halfway through a
Married at First Sight box set and it was simply too riveting to pull himself away from. That said, it was probably a blessing in disguise, and saved Mike from excitedly informing me that Jason was a total dog but they made it work with their partner, that Kimberly got over her issues with trust to fully commit to her relationship with Brian, and that human-labradors-personified Tim and Mandy sadly headed to splitsville, with Mike looking at me with erstwhile sincerity and explaining that he felt reassured that they would remain close friends, just in case I was wondering.
Another time, an excited podcast listener said hello to both Kaz and I as we rode up the Diamondhead fire road, just outside of Squamish. What they didn't realize is that we bumped into each other in the car park in a mere coincidence. Naturally, Kaz being an out-of-towner, we did three laps of Pseudo before I let him do one lap of Angry M as a treat, assured him that was as far as my local's knowledge went, and then gave him a formal escort to the US border to eliminate the risk of him getting curious and exploring the trails that definitely don't exist.
Timekeeping is a big thing and I love being on my own schedule. If you're late, I will never ride with you again. If you complain, also, you're gone. If you feel like you have something to prove, or we have to work to service your ego because mummy, daddy, Mrs. Doubtfire, or whoever it was that put the hard yards in for you, didn't tell you how special you were as a child then also, yes, you're gone. At that rate, I recommend therapy, and no amount of fist bumps, high fives or screaming "SEND IT" as you ride down Rupert is going to remedy the issue. Needless to say, influencers, aspiring or established, will never make the grade.
There are, of course, precious friends that I do ride with, and that list may well shrink should they ever read this, but the real ones know. I think there is a sweet spot in competency where you and your friends know that you don't have to worry about each other. Some of the best times I've had over the last few years have been riding with other people, whether it's old friends at Kicking Horse, making new ones in Morzine or sweating battery acid in Meribel; those times were special - but they were all the more special for me because they were few and far between, and a very different experience than my norm.
There was a women's group in Austin my wife tried to ride with. Complete shit show
Be safe be well,
Incognito Robin
They also only ride during the HOTTEST months in Austin and during the HOTTEST time of day. As soon as the weather turns nice, they stop. Makes no sense but I'd expect nothing less from these clowns.
And that’s before the riding starts.
After that it’s the guy with no tools that breaks something.
That’s why riding with dogs is so popular, they are always on time and don’t breakdown.
Night rides rock
Which is why I pointed out that just as many guys said they hated group rides and we should feel sorry for their wives.
Henry just mad @mikelevy won't ride with him?
Snacks
Pumps
Tubes
Multitool
More Snacks
Ridiculously expensive camera phones that you would never buy
If I ride alone, I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶m̶o̶o̶c̶h̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶e̶l̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶i̶d̶e̶ ̶g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶ I have to bring all that stuff myself!
Do you wanna be my friend?
I ride solo 80% of the time, with 1 or 2 buddies tops the rest of the time. But I’m all about shooting the shit with a bunch of riders at the bar or post ride beers at the trailhead.
On already busy trail systems, pissing off hikers with big obnoxious groups is a recipe for access issues.
I want to ride alone, and it's definitely always other people's fault.
The writer clearly doesn’t know what real friendship is and decent people would be smart to steer clear of his instrumental use of people to mirror his exact values to reinforce his self image. What does he give to a group? Sounds like he just takes. What a Bellend. What a dick.
I also like solo rides.
::shrug::
There's also something to be enjoyed in the inevitably of someone doing something stupid/funny/amazing on big group rides.
I love the occasional ride with 1-2 people, especially if they have their shit together and can hold a similar pace. But doing basically anything in a group of 6+ people gets super irritating IMO, whether it's ski touring, mtb, or taking the kids to the zoo. Beyond a handful of people you kinda need a group leader (like a guide) to keep things working smoothly.
"Help! I've fallen 60m down a yucca-lined, buzzworm-infested rock chute, and I'm still clipped in, and I can't get up!"
[Matt Beer has left the chat]
Only time I actually want someone with me is on a night ride for the sake of safety/being able to help each other out if something goes wrong and there's no signal to call anyone.
Not to mention potential access issues that can arise if the situation with other user groups is already tense. I actually enjoy the occasional group ride, but I refrain because they’re obnoxious to everyone around them.
I've lived within minutes of trails (seconds in my current house) for a long time, so solo rides have always been an easy, and frequent option. But I would never intentionally make that my only option just because I think I do biking better than everyone else.
Group rides are great _because_ they don't always go as smooth as a solo ride. But they do always make me better. As a rider and/or as a social being. If it's a fast no-dab ride, it'll be the fastest no-dab ride because the group pushes each other. If it's a faffy sketchy slow ride, it makes me a better person via practicing fun-despite-the-faff, because I'm f*cking riding bikes and that shit is awesome!
He’s also on point about those select rides with buds that are special and stay in the memory banks!
He is pretty on point for the select few to keep on riding with. The few are gold, more so on park days…
- My time is limited. Most weekday MTB or road rides are solo
- I'm comfortable with group rides (max 3 others) having stops and chats. Just go in with the concept that its a catchup with a bit of riding
- I will do weekend group rides starting early (5:45AM). But I know already who will join and who wont: Friends with young children = "sure, no problem!" vs Friends with no/adult kids = "What? no way! too early!!!"
You’re the man, you’ve always got a friend here.
Hey PB, let’s make Quinney’s Op-Ed’s a regular thing.
Quinney’s Corner..?
“Old” might be the operative word here..
Back in the day, my friends were all motorbike racers, and we had one directive- beat the other guy! Seriously competitive, sometimes pro level speeds, and anyone who stepped up knew they’d have to keep up.
Some of those guys are still pushing it, some are still riding, but most aren’t.
A reunion ride for old time sake? No thanks.
late jail.
stop for airing down tires? right to jail.
servicing your ego, believe it or not, jail.
All the teens do is babble on about Insta rad sick things while climbing like goats, barely breathing, then eat everything in sight at the cafe leaving you to pay for it.... Then, as a final insult, after 2 corners on the way down the trail, they're out of sight and gone.... When you reach the bottom they say things like "Did you crash...."... No... "oh, why did it take so long then ? Do we have any more Haribo"
Adults... easy.... Teens... Not so easy
+ Conversation on climbs
+ Constructive feedback and encouragement
+ Help in case of emergencies / slowest rider gets eaten by wildlife
We ride together, I won't leave you behind with a mechanical and I'd ask the same from you. But if either of us wants to ride away from the other - that's cool too. We'll see each other at least before and after and that's usually enough.
PS - I go into a "group ride" with the mentality it will suck, and let it surprise if it's not horrible.
She does make it so it's never a solo ride though!
I ride alone, with nobody else.
This entire article was complaining lol. But in your defense, it wasn't while riding a bike.
I formed a club though a few years go. The introverts cycling club. We all ride alone and afterwards don’t get together to discuss the ride. All my jerseys are club jerseys too. I always have the best beer too.
I know many people that don’t ride alone ever. Not for safety reasons but because they need that companionship all the time. They don’t seem to do anything alone. That’s OK too. We’re not all like that.
Not to get all competitive and such - but as a native German, I'd just point out that there might be at least one other nationality that might have something to contribute in that regard...
Group rides can be a great way to have social time with people, if that's what you're looking for. And they can be hell if all you want to do is ride. There's a spectrum there, and none of it is right or wrong, it's just a matter of everybody going into it with clear expectations. And like any group activity, the overhead/faff factor goes up with group size - another spectrum, and one that needs to be understood to make it work for yourself (and others - because just as you might hate what you think of as the waffling and futzing of the group, they might hate what they see as your impatience and rudeness).
This, Henry, is the reason I disagree with you.
If it’s just me and another one or two riders… I feel more pressure to be more sociable, otherwise, why get together(?). I guess that’s just how it is when you really don’t know the people you ride with, outside of riding bikes. In this case, I’d almost rather ride solo.
Best group ride ever: 2-3 buddies on the lift w/ a plan to destroy whatever trail is next & then shit-talk in the line, on the lift and after riding. Everyone shreds, talk like hens between.
It doesn't matter whether we agree, disagree, or partly agree w/ Henry or each other, do what makes ya happy - Mofo is funny as hell and articles like this are pure PB magazine-in-hand SOLID GOLD
There's also different types of rides, with different expectations. I know who I can ride with chill, I know who to ride with when I want a hammer-fest.
That being said, not sure I've ever been in any group larger than 5 total where it was a good thing. There's definitely an upper limit to a good thing.
But if you're wanting to progress your technical skills, riding with a true wizard really opens your eyes to what speed can look like. I've been left in shock and awe a few times.
I've solo ridden for years and years until I recently hooked up with a group of guys. It's way more fun to shoot the shit, but I prefer my own pace and choosing to session whatever I want, whenever I want. 50% group rides 50% solo rides, I like the mix.
When I went to Bentonville earlier this year we went to the trailheads together but broke off into solo or 2-person rides based on what trails we wanted to ride. I found that to be ideal.
And I hate the one guy on the group ride that always has some overly dramatic mechanical. Like, "Bro, my dropper cable is totally stretched out!!! This is just like 1998!"
A hard, take-no-prisoners road ride can be pretty great though.
I was taken aside and given a dressing down down. I thought i was in some surreal universe looking at the fella. Never, ever again.
1) Easier to carpool together. Definitely important with current gas prices.
2) I'll have around someone who can tow me into a feature or jump.
3) If I forget something, like a multi-tool or whatever, someone will usually have one.
4) Safety. In case of an injury and also helps keep dangerous wildlife away.
Although if it's more of a "send it" kind of ride and I'm eyeing up a big jump or drop or whatever, it's nice to have someone there who can phone for an ambulance if it does go tits up.
That said, I'm also president of our local cycling club, and it's a great excuse that I have to go and ride, build trails and organize and participate in weekend trips with friends as a "duty"!
Imo bikeriding is a solo activity, but as always and everywhere good times shared are better times.
I've been an egoist most if my life so it also has been a good lesson to learn to wait, participate, help, advise, motivate, succumb, engage, teach...
Last but not least - train rides on jumplines are awesome - cheers!
Don't bring anyone slower than you.
Any ride over four people = add 15min per person.
Solo good.
my fave is the SGR (small group ride)
Ive told my "group" that i love to ride with them all......but not all at one time.
Tomorrow is Thursday Express a 2up ride. Early start, no BS.
Riding with someone is fun - makes chasing them downhill entertaining, pushes my skill level and helps alleviate climbing-suffering through distraction.
How the f*ck would you figure out all that bullshit on a ride? Working to service an ego? Is that like racing up climbs and cranking downs? Doesn't that fit in with your idea of keeping moving and not faffing about?
"At that rate, I recommend therapy, and no amount of fist bumps, high fives or screaming "SEND IT" as you ride down Rupert is going to remedy the issue."
Actually, it really really really can help. It literally can be therapeutic for many many people.
Not to mention that good group dynamics are great for progressing. You say you like the no-foot-down flow ride, but that's not an instant thing that happens on every trail. Having a crew around giving high-fives after hard bits can help build you up faster, allowing more of those perfect ride no-dab rides.
No, don't change that tubeless tire in the car park. Yes, putting your jacket on and off every five minutes is annoying. No, I don't want to have a five-minute trip-down-memory-lane as we wait at the corner of every switchback. Yes, I do expect your bike to be in working order. No, I don't care who's faster than who. Yes, spending 20 minutes on a random turn to get the insta-click-wondershit photo of you is my very idea of hell."
Truth has been spoken. Going alone and not going all out bananas on the downhill is about as easy as it gets. Maybe a ride with max. 2 others when the real monkeys get together.. But that's about as often as who knows when.
But guess what, there is no wrong way to have fun! If it's not a "training ride", or explicitly promoted as a fast-pace-and-we-will-drop-your-ass-so-keep-up-or-go-start-the-grill group ride, anyone bitching that you're too slow is just an ass and their opinions are not worth worrying about. They're diminishing your experience because they can't adapt, and that sucks. Just ride your ride, find a group that can deal (doesn't have any Henry types) if you can, and have fun!
BUT! I kind of agree with him here. Group rides are simultaneously the worst and the best. One of the best things about mountain biking is that you can have fun riding both with your best friends and solo.
I get you don’t like people, I live in Norfolk and I’m from Romford so I completely understand but really that article was a petition to die cold and alone!
Do you need a hug? No really, you alright?
Cheers
I totally agree that group rides are the worst: anyone who doesn't have these habits annoys me.
If I'm trying to train for a specific trip or event, I will avoid group rides because I want to go at my own pace and I don't want to be a jerk to others who may not want the same pace. Otherwise I'm usually up for a group ride because I ride with actual friends (usually) and I value the time spent out in the woods with the boys. Sometimes just enjoying yourself and time outside trumps the solo ride for me. It definitely helps if the other folks in the group are at my level of fitness or better though.
Then, the night before something dawned on me. I was their "bike guy." If something broke, it would be up to me to bodge a trail side remedy. Any tips and line suggestions to avoid an imminent visit to the ER were coming from me. If they had a terrible time, I would take it as a personal failing for not showing them how awesome riding in the woods can be. I started planning out so much stuff, packing so many spares and tools, that it triggered some sort of nervous IBS and I ended up not even making the ride because I got absolutely no sleep and had zero energy. It was ridiculous. Never again.
I ride alone. I turn on two different GPS trackers and let two people know where I am. I am then, content.
Sunday ride out all by myself, sleeping in (or not) , choosing my own schedule and maybe switching route a few minutes before I leave the house, changing plans mid ride, enjoying some free time contemplating whatever during a few quite hours on the bike - YES absolutely!
Group ride with a bunch of people you know and respect, and who know and respect you, with a beer or two mid ride and / or after the ride. YES! My understanding of social life.
Group ride with a bunch of people I don't know, have never ridden with before...nope.
10 or 15 minutes lost before heading out for a 6 -10 hour day is fine (especially after a 4 hour truck ride each way). Its the, "I have maybe 1 hour to get an MTB ride in plus my 28 min commute by car on each side of that ride" that's the most dangerous. If anything cant be found like a helmet or single shoe or someone is late by 15 it can ruin the whole thing. Sometimes those are the only rides a person gets during the weekdays. Solo on short 1 hour rides can be great as you set all the paces.
group rides can go bad certainly and sometimes end up a waste of time / frustrating, but there's definitely still value there for progression and fun's sake
I think riding with a few close friends that know what's up (as you've pointed out) is the best type of riding. Everyone can handle themselves and take turns leading, etc. I have a great group of riding buddies and always have a better time riding together vs. solo.
Fixed that for you.
Seriously though, I ride with lots of different groups and levels of riding. I also rode solo. Learn to appreciate both aspects of riding a bike, and you’ll be much happier for it.
my condolences
Got other MTB friends who would recoil at such a "boring" ride.
I'm glad I have options.
And he knows his stuff!
Germans be like: hold my stein
"we do revelling in misery and bitterness better than anyone else and I'm not above leaning into that"
I might only agree with half of this article, but I love the way Henry uses the language!
Most people whose company I enjoy ...suck to ride with.
98% solo rides and every once in a while with 1 or 2 friends. Exceptions for kids and girlfriend.
I love the guy, so whenever we meet i always get there 1-2 hours before hand to do some solo miles.
It did involve pot cookies, which may explain it.
Should I send you some, Henry?
LOL.
My Favorite Quinney Rant Yet!
I consider this ^ therapy
PS: you nailed it
Love them and hate them all at the same time
You just have to have a killer crew,that’s the hard part.
- THANK YOU!
I suppose he's gone then.
Or they'll call you out for being an ass for ditching them if someone does get a flat or needs to shed a layer. Because that can happen on a solo ride, and then _you're the one_ faffing about. You gonna ride without yourself next time?
You sound like the "sponsored" teams I see out doing training rides and yelling at people to get out of the way so they can keep their heart rates up. No stopping! Be on time or we leave without you! Get a flat and get walking and we'll see you at the trail-head (because one carries tools because that promotes and allows faffing about)!
Maybe it's all millenial hyperbole, but "If you're late, I will never ride with you again."... just STFU. "Never"? Knowing this, I'll never ride with you in the first place, because that kind of binary thinking is just shitty.
I guess I think we could all cut each other some slack. Maybe you like cynical writing and maybe you don't. I personally do and I enjoyed writing this. If you don't, that's okay too - and there's lots on PB that isn't like this. In fact, I would say this style of article is in the vast minority. On one of the irregular occasions that we do publish something such as this, screaming that things aren't to your taste or going on long tirades about how an author is somehow a bad person, in this case an egomaniac, isn't the kind of thing I support. Do you think I'm being that unreasonable? What do you think?
When I responded to justinfoil, I suppose, immaturely perhaps, I was just being sarcastic. This probably wasn't the best approach to be fair. Although, for some reason we have this culture that if you publish your work on the internet it's your obligation to silently accept people making out or suggesting that you're a ****. I'm not sure how much I agree with this sentiment.
You don't have to silently accept it, but you should be able to accept some criticism. There is a culture on here that everything that is published is already perfect and any criticism is completely unfounded and only 110% positive responses are acceptable. Shit, people get neg-propped for pointing out typos or factual errors (text-book constructive criticism, and often those mistakes are fixed with zero acknowledgement). Literally helping out the site (for free, BTW) is a fast way to get shit on.
I didn't call you an ass, I suggested that acting like you said you do might cause people to think you're an ass, because: traffic happens, people get delayed sometimes, mechanicals happen, layers need to be changed, etc, etc, and all of those are terrible reasons to bail on a group ride.
If I wrote a long tirade about the author being an egomaniac, it's only because that author wrote a (negatively tinged) long tirade about how almost nobody in the world can do a group ride "correctly". You criticized every single other rider in the world, yet couldn't accept any of them critcizing you at all.
I only said "STFU" because you mentioned so many (silly, IMO) reasons that you would tell someone to effectively GTFO, that they're not good enough, they should go away, and you never want to ride with them, ever. So who is being more negative?
"Took the words out of my mouth! Wow, Henry, you're so right, no one can do riding right. I'm going to ditch all my group rides and just go solo from now on. I didn't even realize how much my friends were holding me back from whatever it is I do all by myself. They don't even deserve my company!" Is that an acceptable comment?
And yeah, he could have taken the "positive approach" here and talked about why he loves riding alone instead of why he hates riding with people, but sometimes it is fun to joke around and lean into the pessimism for the sake of humor and as far as I'm concerned it struck a chord with enough people to be justified.
What I do think that should go either way is that we can only respond to what someone writes, not to what someone "is". Most of us live too far apart to write something sensible in that context. So a writing claiming "what someone is" is best ignored and ideally not written in the first place.
3/10.
It's really a simple process. If you want to ride alone... ride alone.
If you want to ride at a specific pace but like some company then find people that are on par.
f you want to ride with a bunch of people and enjoy the social aspect of it... then do it. But leave your bad attitude and hurry up BS at the door.
Shout out to Bell for hooking you all up with those one off PB helmets though....
There's a time and a place for it all.
Dude either needs a couple secret kids to show up unannounced on his doorstep like some sort of goofball 80s movie, or never ever have kids ever. Flip a coin: possible ego death salvation vs. let his poisonous self-importance dead-end with him. What a bore.
Riles me up because I used to be like that...it's a trap, Henry!
"I hate riding in groups because everyone else sucks, except me, I'm perfect (even that part of me that just hates everyone, also perfect)."
Thanks for reading it all the same.