Opinion: Why Weight Doesn't Matter

Feb 22, 2023 at 18:53
by Henry Quinney  



photo
Why my 170 mm Transition Spire just wasn't heavy enough.

Bikes shouldn't have to be anything. If you want a light bike, good for you. However, what I don't agree with is some of the low-weight spec choices that we see on aggressive trail and enduro bikes. These bikes are far slacker than downhill bikes of a few years ago, and they need the parts to boot.

I'm not saying light tires or some fancy rims can't increase the versatility of a bike but at the same time if it undermines what it's meant to be good at in the first place then what's the point?

Versus tires.
Putting 1500g tires on my bike made Levy sad, but they absolutely have their time and place.
Shimano LinkGlide
Shimano's LinkGlide claims massive durability improvements for its added heft. Long term review in the works to see if those claims bear out.

Moving to a heavier bike has been a fun experience, and I'm very lucky to start with something that was so light in the first place. Of course, the answer doesn't like in being as extreme as possible, but rather in a sensible and well-informed compromise.

Author Info:
henryquinney avatar

Member since Jun 3, 2014
336 articles

489 Comments
  • 369 96
 Don't wanna make this about ebikes, like everything-but, my eMTB while super fun some days, handles NOTHING like my trail bike and that is due to weight. That extra 10 plus pounds, sucks ass. So-epic disagreement. And no, not watching the video, just replying to the headline.
  • 129 88
 I think my eMTB is every bit as good at descending as my std. bike....it's different but not worse IMO. Go ride a 250 lb dirtbike down a trail, that 10 lbs is not much. I actually think eMTB's handle braking bumps and chatter better, the weight helps calm the bike down a bit. They are not as poppy, flickable and are harder to bunnyhop, but not all trails need that.
  • 203 73
 That’s why you ride E on steeper/proper dh where the weight isn’t a killjoy.

Anyone riding E on regular trails is a Jerry. And yeah, there are a lot of Jerrys.
  • 26 13
 Not intending to argue, but out of curiosity, how closely are you comparing it to your trail bike? Is it the E-version of the model trail bike you have? does it have the exact same geo? Same exact wheels and suspension? Most importantly, does it have the same grips?
  • 48 29
 ill agree here. I have a mondraker crafty emtb, AXS, new rockshox, etc, its 45lbs full power emtb, love it. But, I also have a we are one trail bike with AXS, new rockshox and it's f-ing bomb. Descending on my WAO is just better, more lively, more 'fun'....and it's a weight thing. My v10 DH bike at some insane 34lbs or something is WAY more fun than my old DH bike that was 40lbs. I am a weight weenie and not apologizing for it.
  • 60 6
 @RadBartTaylor: I've learned its not the trail that requires poppy, flickable, and bunny hopping....but the rider. Someone who likes to pop off things does it on all type of trails no matter what bike is under them.
  • 13 5
 Spent last summer on a (lightweight XO build) e-mtb, that was my conclusion too. It's really heavy, which is usually perfectly fine with me, but the weight distribution was very foreign feeling.

The weight (12lbs, not 10lbs) was centered in just one location. I've had 40lb plus bikes with the weight evenly distributed that rode sublimely, this was an altogether different animal. Couldn't wait to return it and get back to my mountain bike.
  • 137 8
 @stiksandstones: nice humblebrag bro
  • 86 49
 I officially challenge anyone from pinkbike to an impossible climb, anywhere. I take a 20 lb hardtail and pinkbike gets a 37 lbs fully 'quiped enduro machine. Now tell me weight dont matter. what a load of clickbait bs
  • 26 0
 Just adding inserts and heavier tires makes the bike handle differently. I'm not even talking about pedaling. The bike takes more effort to turn/lean. I'm surprised how many people seem to not notice.
  • 29 25
 @mininhi: You will loose, because ht will loose traction on any properly impossible climb. Just look at previous climb video and see that in tough conditions traction is everything.
  • 16 40
flag hamncheez (Feb 23, 2023 at 9:46) (Below Threshold)
 "That extra 10 plus pounds, sucks ass" thats what ur mum told me the other night; I gotta get back in the gym.
  • 13 12
 I prefer the handling of my 39lb Orbea Rise over my 32lb Yeti SB130. I think it really depends on what you're comparing it too. heavy weight ebikes are a bit much for the average trail.
  • 22 1
 Same with my YZ250 and my Megatower
  • 24 13
 @RadBartTaylor: the ebike haters are gonna vote you down, but 100% I agree with your synopsis there. My ebike is wicked fun downhill, is planted, and works great. Yes, it's a little heavier to move about but honestly its a different workout and I love the upper body effort needed to move it around a bit more.
  • 37 26
 @mininhi: i mean whats the end goal here? to become the king at climbing hills? I just want to ride my bike down trails and jump the thing around. We've all pedaled back up until we couldn't, then pushed/walked until we couldn't. Took a break then got to the top and sent it again with our buds. I've never been hugely interested into making that uphill battle some goofy nonstop seated pedaled endeavor race-to-the-top, it's without a doubt the lamest part of mountain biking right behind new standards.

I've always seen getting back to the top a function of my sometimes-shit physio/cardio before caring about extra 5-10lb of weight on my bike because I didn't buy some crazy expensive components and weigh my bike on a scale before going for a ride. At the end of the day I'm thinking about what happens going down a run, what am I going to do on that hip on that one corner, how far can I rotate my hips and pitch a whip on a certain booter, want to bonk that one stump, etc. on my journey back to the top of the trail. I can't say much sleep is lost wondering how I can improve that uphill capability knowing those extra THOUSANDS of dollars spent on lightweight compoments probably make a marginal difference & are no replacement for just getting out there, riding till you cant, and making sure your physio is in check. End of season on that 10lb heavier bike you'll get to the top of the trail just fine
  • 6 1
 i think if you suspension is tuned for the weight and your brakes and tires are solid having the extra weight downhill is actually good as long as the trails your riding are steep enough.
  • 72 7
 @Upduro: I have a Yeti 160e full AXS and that is a tank! Lifting it onto the rack on the back of my Bentley Bentayga Hybrid is a pain. The Scott Spark RC I bought of Dangerholm is much easier to portage. And with the Scott I am still able to ride the triple black diamonds with ease.
So what I am saying is weight makes a difference, I think. I have some of my employees (CEO of fortune 100 company) writing something up for me now so I'll repost later.
  • 5 1
 Hit some weights!
  • 13 3
 @mininhi: did you watch the video? Henry specifically stated that while climbing the weight is noticeable. He’s suggesting that heavier tires are better for descending and that in a world of compromises (enduro bikes) he prefers a heavier tire for the added support and traction going down. He doesn’t say it’s better for climbing. Also, the impossible climb always comes down to traction, and the heavier tires always win in a game of traction, hardtails will always lose.
  • 5 0
 watch the video, title is somewhat misleading re: the point being made
  • 4 2
 Yeah I would totally agree to stupid argument to say wait doesn't matter. Nobody's going to ride 100 lb mountain bike. Same thing like saying low tire pressure doesn't make a difference in how fast your bike rolls You wouldn't ride your tires at 5 PSI.
  • 17 2
 @mininhi: Tell us you didn't watch the video without telling us you didn't watch the video.
  • 4 8
flag threehats (Feb 23, 2023 at 11:10) (Below Threshold)
 I prefer how my e-full-sus handles vs every normal full-sus I’ve ridden - and most of that is down to the extra (sprung) mass in the frame!
  • 26 4
 @mininhi: you didn’t get the point mate.
Does the weight matter in an impossible climb ? Yes.
Do we have the most fun in an impossible climb ? Absolutely not.
Do the heavy bullet proof enduro bike will climb the impossible climb slower ?
Yes,
do we care ? No.
Is it fun to ride downhill as fast as possible all day long with a bike that will survive it ? Oooh yes.
That’s the point.
  • 17 0
 That is precisely the problem with only reading the titles and not watching the video. Henry is not arguing that the weight of an eMTBs is insignificant. He just argues that you dont need to change your shifter to save 15g, because that might not affect your performance and it will probably be more expensive and less durable.

He adds that you dont need to go extreme and make your bike as heavy as possible (transforming it into a eMtb), but I guess people always have to find a reason to disagree, even though this is a very reasonable argument, specially for @henryquinney Wink
  • 5 0
 @mininhi: did you bother watching the video? At all? At no point was it suggested that there is no difference in up-hill riding. Quite the opposite. The improvement comes in riding downhill. You know, the fun part.
  • 3 0
 @Upduro: Dude works for TLD. Yes that was a huge humblebrag lol.
  • 20 0
 @ivemadeahugemistake:

“There are no solutions. There are only trade-offs.”

― Thomas Sowell

Ebikes aside, if most riders are being honest with themselves, a bike with 150mm travel or more weight doesn't matter until you pass 35 pounds (maybe a few pounds less if you're on a small frame). Once you get to 35 pounds, you've got to start making trade-offs. Its worth sacrificing trade-offs to keep your bike at 35 pounds, except for tires & brakes, in my opinion. If the tires & brakes you need for your terrain justifies it, then yes go over 35 pounds.

All that being said, for those of us well into our careers with families, we now have more money than free time. Its fun to build up lightweight bikes and spend more than our skills justify, just like its nice to have nice furniture or a well landscaped yard (if you think bikes are expensive....)
  • 8 2
 my heavier bike rips just as well as my downhill bike. I mainly ride dirt bikes and downhill and love my ebike. has taken to incredible places and absolutely rips. shout out to commencal!!!
  • 3 8
flag solf (Feb 23, 2023 at 11:36) (Below Threshold)
 @LaXcarp: the faster you go the more responsiveness you need. It's not as straight forward as you say. I gap things most ppl do a few turns through. It's the pace the riders moving in any trail.
  • 5 0
 If you watched the video you'd see that he says it's not wise to take this argument to either extreme, as you've done.
  • 1 0
 @mininhi: i mean they could beat you if they are better? What does this prove lol
  • 2 1
 @67ha4life: same here lol. I have a lot of roots and off camber sections. The ebike has so much more grip.
  • 6 0
 @mininhi: Even back in the day on my 40 lbs Cannondale Gemini I cleaned tech climbs better than I ever did with my hard tail. This is subjective. But if you are open to the challenge, I would truly enjoy watching you on a 20lbs hardtail against Matt Beer on an Enduro.
  • 16 1
 @LyO177: Who's 'we'? I like climbing, the downhill is fun but the uphill is where I feel like I accomplished something.
  • 5 0
 I agree the extra weight sucks but I really do prefer my 200lb ktm 150xc for climbing
  • 1 0
 @yakamonti That's because the wrong parts are heavier, and by too much. And 1kg to have far burlier tyres and more grip - big advantage but a noticeable weight penalty. Add 6kg to the frame and you don't really have any advantage until the motor and battery are helping you up a hill, and 6kg is huge of course.
  • 4 0
 @jeremy3220: agreed! The turn in with a lighter tire is much quicker, but it also can make the bike feel less stable at speed, which can cause fatigue. Basically there is no right or wrong, it's all up to the rider and terrain as to what tire is best.
  • 1 1
 Also anything steep and technical in muddy conditions is really hard work an e bike. I’ve been sliding all over the place and not been able to stop for ages due to the weight of the e bike.

Any off camber tracks I just find hard as the bike slides away and you can struggle to pull it back up.
  • 1 0
 @rcrocha: great sarcasm right here!
  • 4 0
 @mkul7r4: “This isn’t an argument!
It’s a contradiction.” Monty Python
“Yes it is!” “No it isnt”
  • 4 1
 @RadBartTaylor: Definitely agree. First time I rode an ebike was a rented Levo (~2017) and at the time I said it handled about 80% as well as my regular bike. Fast forward to 2021 when I bought my first ebike—another Levo but later Gen—I couldn’t believe how well it handled and started to prefer it over my regular bike for my typical descents. Too many factors to rule out here and I don’t have the same component spec between bikes so it’s hard to say. But I can confirm the extra weight on the downhill feels more planted and secure. That can come at a nasty price in the event of a crash, though.
  • 2 1
 @nvranka: That’s more or less my primary application. Shuttle up (multiple times) and ride down the DH only trails or link multiple trails together for an epic day of hitting all the DH trails in the region. All while everyone around me is shuttling in their gas guzzling trucks. :shrug:
  • 5 1
 @solf: totally disagree, I'd say the faster you go the LESS responsiveness you need. There is a reason DH bikes are long low and slack and don't have high BB with steep HTA.
  • 5 1
 @robholland: I doubt it has to do with bike weight, maybe a bit of where that weight is, but an ebike is only ~10 pounds more than a std. bike. When looking at total 'system' weight, you + bike + gear + water + tools it's not much of a change.

Do you really think a guy like Greg M or Steve P (both 200 lbs +) have issues stopping even though they are 20+ lbs heavier than all their competition?
  • 3 0
 @gnarlysipes: agreed.

Dirtbikes have this same sort of thing, small lightweight bikes (like the smaller bore 2 strokes) get bounced all over the place my 500 4t doesnt. Pros and cons and tradeoffs, but for higher speed, rough terrain the heavier motos stay planted MUCH better than the smaller bikes.

It's been my exact experience on MTB's too, my eBike is a ripper, dulling and making it a bit slower vs analog bike can be a great thing.
  • 3 3
 @mininhi: yeah but who gives a shit about climbing
  • 9 1
 @rcrocha: the problem isn't the weight of your Yeti 160e. When I go riding on my custom built Santa Cruz bullit CC elite custom pro AXS/ Reserve with custom parts, and I need to get my bike on our off my Ferrari Purosangue, I fetch my porters. They can also carry the bike over obstacles and they also pack my lunch of wine and fine soft cheese. I'm also a CEO at an F100, we should hang out! P.S. I'm yoked and my wife's a model.
  • 1 0
 @stiksandstones: I mean, with those arms and legs,10lbs is like 100.
  • 4 1
 @i-like-toytles: I actually did go from a Orbea Occam to a Ebike Orbea Rise, its the same geo, wheels, tires, suspension and most importantly, even the same grips. My trail bike was carbon and now my trail ebike is alloy. I was at 30lbs with cushcore on my Ocaam and now at 47lbs with cushcore on my Rise. I find the extra weight a lot more planted and faster when going down. It isn't as easy to pop over things or be playful but that doesn't mean its not playful at all.I think its still very poppy compared to other full powered ebikes Ive ridden like a alloy levo. The only time I do not prefer the extra weight, is when I'm lifting it onto my rack or the bed of my truck. Only comparing downhill because its obviously totally different going up. Just my observation
  • 14 3
 @thechunderdownunder: telling e-bike/moped riders to hit the weights is such a lost cause. They’re on e-bikes for a reason.
  • 1 1
 @RadBartTaylor: my bikes stiff af. If it's not it's less responsive. You ate correct. Stiffer is faster
  • 3 1
 My first experience with Turbo Levo on 27+ was probably like riding a pregnant rhino, it goes thrue everything, but instead of bitting into the soil it's somehow rolling over like a kid in tractor tire.

On the other hand, Iam not feeling safe on bikes let's say under+-13kg and going down some challenging terrain was always more comfy on a not so light bike.
  • 4 0
 Your ebike is only 10lbs heavier? I'd have expected it to be a lot more, unless it's a superlight like a Fuel Exe or eZesty etc.
  • 2 5
 @hamncheez: 35lb. You’ve got to be mad. 30lb is plenty for a trail bike
  • 2 0
 @stiksandstones: let’s be friends
  • 2 0
 @bok-CZ: 27+ was a mistake from the beginning.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: It seems to be fine for my mum on a hardtail e-bike and I'm about to turn 40 this year.
Can't agree more
  • 2 17
flag solf (Feb 23, 2023 at 16:08) (Below Threshold)
 @chrismac70: hahaha. My bikes 38lb no water. I will eat you on any trail. Weight don't mean shit. I got plenty of KOMs in pemby and plenty of podiums.
  • 4 1
 My ebike is a solid 20lbs heavier than my trail bike (sight vlt vs stumpy) and the ebike is still absurdly fun on DHs and honestly handles significantly better on 75% of descents. Only time I'd prefer the stumpy would be the 25% of the slowest, tightest, lowest grade stuff where there's just no speed to be had. Once the ebike gets up to speed you barely feel the weight at all.

Out of curiosity, does your ebike have cheap flexy alloy wheels by chance?
  • 11 0
 @olafthemoose: I give multiple shits about climbing.
  • 6 3
 @anchoricex: some of us do enjoy challenging ourselves on both the climbs and descents, jumps/playing.
  • 6 2
 @ICKYBOD: I can’t be alone in riding uphill for 80 minutes for a 20 minute dh run! The funnest part is the dh but I’m not convinced it’s the best part of mountain biking.
  • 1 0
 @stabincabin: that sounds like a perfectly reasonable assessment and comparison.
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: I’m with you here. Do some push ups and enjoy whatever bike you’re riding regardless of weight!
  • 17 12
 How the hell did this chat become about e-bikes????

An e-bike is NOT a bike and any comparison is completely irrelevant!

And to everyone who claims that's its okay to run lightweight crappy tyres and weak as piss brakes on their 170mm enduro bikes and doesn't effect performance.... well sorry guys you aren't doing 'enduro' style riding. Go by the appropriate bike for your needs.
  • 3 2
 @Upduro: not getting how this is a humblebrag. It’s context for what he is trying to say. He’s got nice stuff yeah, but most of us have decent equipment on here and can relate to the point. I mean, a lighter DH bike can be more fun on more trails, no?
  • 8 0
 @nvranka: my name is jerry, thanks a lot
  • 1 0
 @stiksandstones: I too have a crafty.....and an Orbea Rise. which one do I ride more often? one is 46lbs and the other 38.


my Foxy is my weapon of choice though. 28lbs and the most playful beast ever. sure, you cant cover the same amount of terrain as the eMTBs but I am always just as satisfied at the end of rides
  • 2 5
 @rcrocha: Yeah, but how do you drag that ego around? Or do you have your employees haul it in the Bentley?

Talk about a poseur troll. What are you, 12 years old...
  • 7 6
 @ponyboy24: ebikes are bikes, and if you think they're a motorcycle. Hop on an actual motorcycle that shit will humble you faster than any trail on any bike...
  • 2 0
 @i-like-toytles: I would argue two bikes identical in all but mass and its distribution are potentially further apart than ones with different geo/travel/spec etc...
  • 6 1
 I let a 12year old grom ride my Ebike on our dirt jumps the other day. He cleared all the jumps (that I can hardly even clear on my DJ bike) with ease, showing me that, in the end, if you can ride a bike, you can ride a bike! And he couldn't have been happier doing a billion laps in 20 minutes...

I'm guessing weight matters until it doesn't!
  • 9 0
 @stepf: Because most of limitations are in our heads, not in the gear we ride. In the world of consumerism the pursuit of better gear often means more than the ride itself, sorry. Most of us simply try to find this 1% better bike, when we are lacking 20% of skill. The phrase "does not matter" does not literally mean it does not matter, it means it is relatively insignificant in certain scenarios. But the idea that you can buy this 1% better gear is vital for lots of people, giving them hope for improvement without pushing themselves. Whatever this "better" really is, the simpler the measurement the better, thus weight is ideal for this, one simple number, you only need to take money and buy that 100g lighter something and voila. This is something you cannot fight with, it's like fighting with religion, people just need it to feel secure.
  • 2 2
 The handling of an heavy ebike sucks a good chunk of fun out of it for me. Had two decked out ebikes, not for me. I never found more grip either, I have way more instances with rear wheel over taking me or getting kicked off line, once it was going, it was going. Probably more instances of losing front wheel too.
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: I totally agree with you Wink
  • 2 0
 @Bushmaster123: lol his whole profile is just about bragging on the internet

too bad money can’t buy taste though because most tld stuff still looks like ass
  • 4 2
 @pbfan08: And motorcycles are cycles? No, ebikes are not bikes, it is a different category: ebikes.

It is not a problem, there is space for everyone. The only drawback is the overuse of the trails. E bikers multiply the down hill shift and speed up erosion, and in my area they don't have yet the culture of shape to maintain them.
  • 1 0
 @stabincabin: The Occam Carbon is a horrible descender IMO.
I bought it last year, was shocked how shitty and nervous it rides and sold it for a Commencal META TR.
Day and Night difference.
  • 1 0
 @Upduro: Anyone can be bad with money. Huge assumption everyone has 20k of cash just to drop on bikes.
  • 7 6
 @gambas90: e-bikes erode trails more than normal bikes? Really? They are 10-20 lbs heavier than normal bikes. Should we ban riders over 160lbs (72kg) too? The e-bike haters remind me of American politics… you guys just keep beating your drum on the same three arguments that have been known to be incorrect for years now.

Sure it’s unfortunate so many terrible, unskilled riders with no etiquette just hop on ebikes these days. But there’s been terrible, unskilled riders with no etiquette clogging the trails on their normal bikes for decades.

I do agree that with the influx of new trail users there needs to be more education about where trails come from and how they are maintained so that everyone knows you gotta dig or pay if you ride the trails.
  • 4 0
 @venturavin: Sorry if my english was bad but the idea behind my phrase is that where a biker makes 2 uphill/downhill in the day, an ebiker makes usually 2 or 3 times this amount. This is what I usually observed as a shaper. The weight has no measurable effect, as you said.

And yes, education is key, as it is with regular bikes.
  • 3 0
 @i-like-toytles: I have a Specialized Enduro and a Keveno SL (as close as you can get to pretty much identical bikes where the only difference is E and not E. They both have strengths and weaknesses. The E is better when it gets really rough and maybe better traction on loose turns. The non-E is obviously more snappy. If I was at the top of a trail and had to choose, i would go non-E. But overall id go the the KSL everyday.
  • 2 1
 @RadBartTaylor: a 250lb Dirtbike has vastly superior suspension.
  • 1 2
 @anchoricex: come talk to me when your 55 and overweight and stuck on the couch because exercise is stupid.
  • 2 0
 @solf: You are proving my point that it is a mindset. Get the most poppy bike in existence and it still takes the rider making a conscious effort to make those movements. Now that I think about it, there is probably a "pop" button being developed for bikes so people dont have to gain this skill.
  • 2 0
 They're really digging the click bait titles these days - let's say something that doesn't make sense and call it a standard for viral views - yayz
  • 1 0
 @nickfranko: in some cases yeah, but not sure I follow your point
  • 2 1
 @RadBartTaylor: can totally agree on that! I ride everything from gravel to xc, enduro and emtb. Just takes a different style of riding
  • 1 0
 duplicate of 100 other posts!
  • 2 2
 @nvranka: 1000% yes. I “e” in full boost all the time. Backcountry moto trails. Mtn bike trails are for mtn bikes.
  • 2 0
 @Ryawesomerpm: It all comes down to personal preference. My ebike is very fun and planted on the DH, but I like my Transition on the DH more. 54 lbs vs 35 lbs. I like how easy it is to move the bike around, as compared to my Levo. I think if I were to time myself on my Levo vs my Transition Sentinel, I would be faster on my Sentinel. I could be wrong though.
  • 2 1
 @anchoricex: Same with me. Climbing is necessary, because it gets me to where I want to have fun; the DH. A little weight increase perhaps doesn't matter much, but a lot of weight does. My Transition weighs 35 lbs. My Levo weighs 54 lbs. I'll take the 35 lbs all day long over 54 lbs on a DH.
  • 2 0
 @solf: Wow, you're so amazing, have my children
  • 1 0
 @LaXcarp: Sign me up!

Seriously tho, the next-gen Fox electronic suspension detects that you're compressing your suspension, it uses its forward facing LIDAR to see a lip inbound, and it backs off the rebound and compression on your fork, while increasing the compression on your rear shock.

You aren't lined up the best, but luckily your ABS brakes tap the front for you to preload your weight further forward, while your steering damping headset (required to make sure you don't turn too suddenly and damage your brake cables) also has ESC and steers you toward the middle of the landing instead of the far left side.
  • 1 1
 I bought an e bike, rode it for a few months and sold it because i found myself enjoying my normal bike way more. But Where i have to disagree entirely is the handling aspect, a well balanced e bike handles incredibly well, the extra weight actually helps improve their handling and this seems to be widely accepted and promoted by the vast majority of people/pros/tech editors i hear talking about e bikes.
Where they aren’t great is if you need something really lively and manoeuvrable, and for exceptionally steep stuff because the mass is below your feet, which definitely assists the momentum required to go OTB, but ! If you’re riding undulating flowy, rough tracks then they are a dream!
  • 1 0
 @stabincabin: my rise is sub 40lbs(carbon, carbon wheels, XX1 etc...) and I can bunny hop it like my Mondraker Foxy carbon that is 28lbs. that said, my flat ground bunny hop is like 14". lol. so, not great but it just goes to show that it's technique and not brut force.
  • 3 1
 @nickfranko: it doesn't. it just has 10x the sprung weight to make the suspension work better. also, since it comes with it's own 50HP engine, it can afford to have horrific anti-rise and anti-squat kinemetics! lol.


top of the line MTB suspension is more complicated and more refined than top of the line Motocross sus. I have had them both apart, so I have seen what's going on inside. bigger allows for looser tolerances and less refinement.
  • 1 1
 @nvranka: Everyone is a Jerry. Even you, Jerry.
  • 1 0
 @nvranka: 1st time I've heard my own name used in this context. What is meant by "Jerry"? ....as it does not seem to be anything positive. Thnx - Jerry
  • 1 0
 @Mtbdialed: True dat - I was just chatting with a buddy about why Moto forks don't have HSC, MTB forks do!
  • 1 0
 @jpauldion: Its a ski term. This might give you context www.instagram.com/jerryoftheday
  • 3 0
 @SoDiezl350: sure, but I think if someone is going to point out that one bike handles worse than another, the more consistent and controlled the comparison is the more you’re able to pinpoint why its handling worse. If I take the same bike and add 10 lbs and it is better or worse I know what caused the change. If I ride a 34lb carbon trail bike with a Push coil shock and an Ohlins fork and then compare it to an ebike with mid-tier Rock Shox air suspension, a different reach, stack height and longer wheelbase and claim it handles worse because of weight, how do I really know that the weight is causing what I don’t like?
  • 1 0
 @Upduro: haha, yup..
  • 5 1
 @Ryawesomerpm: Any chance both of you aren’t great at dh and therefore weight doesn’t matter much? It’s pretty simple, if you feel a 50lb ebike rides the same/better than a 35lb bike you’re going really slow.
  • 6 8
 @RadBartTaylor: anyone who bitches about ebikes has no moto game. Ebikes are highly accepted by moto bro’s. Its the entitled “i only mtb” crowd who is and always will be the clown show
  • 2 4
 @emptybe-er: Not everywhere, the deep gravel we have here in Colorado Springs(similiar to mammoth, CA) the extra weight actually helps. You sink into turns deeper rather than floating on top .

@pargolf8 : THIS THIS. I've always thought the crowd that called ebikes, motorcycles, were out of touch. And after picking up riding sports bikes ~6months ago its ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Half these dorks would be literally crying if you made them ride a motorcycle across town, and would probably fail the MSF their first go around.
  • 3 3
 @pargolf8: I’ve never met a proper moto rider who rides E unless they no longer ride moto due to injury/safety.

And you say “no moto game”, but below you say you picked up a sport bike 6 mo ago lol. Have any clips of your moto game?

The fact is, anyone with a strong opinion on E’s one way or the other is likely not very good at anything. They’re a fun tool, and there are clowns in every single sport / hobby….

it’s pretty comical to bring up moto in this conversation as it is notorious for having muppets.
  • 1 7
flag pargolf8 (Feb 25, 2023 at 11:53) (Below Threshold)
 @nvranka: go to any gncc race. You are sadly mistaken my slovak friend…..besides I didn’t say anything about 6 months experience. More importantly than your paragraph of bullshit, HOWS EASTERN EUROPE?? Smile
  • 5 1
 @pargolf8: Luckily for me, I live in SoCal. But my family in Slovakia sent me pictures of a nice ski tour they went on in the Tatras yesterday, so I’d say they are doing just fine. Appreciate your concern, though.
  • 1 2
 @nvranka: ohh tatras in late feb? Mmhmmmm
  • 1 0
 @pbfan08: Gotta sink in to that deep gravel, I forgot
  • 1 0
 @Einfach: Its much better as a trail bike then trying to be a enduro or downhill. Its a great bike if rode as intended but I would get a Orbea Rallon as a AM bike these days if I go back to a normal MTB
  • 1 0
 @Mtbdialed: Bike sounds nice, I really like the Rise so far but only have a few rides since it wants to snow all the time. I have a H15 so the alloy is heavier to start but doesn't bother me. I considered a carbon model but the bigger battery at the time was more convincing (before the new M models with bigger ones). I do agree though, technique is more important than force.
  • 2 0
 @nvranka: as you say, muppets in every sport but Ebikes can be every bit as hard to pedal as a std. mtb, it's what you make of it. For moto training it's a better tool, you can still hit HR's, can work on descending more and is more representative of moto fitness IMO.

Many pro moto guys ride them and lot of my non-pro moto friends do.
  • 1 0
 @mininhi: that's a terrible comparison. There's so much more at play there than just the weight of the bike. How about you get the 20 lb hardtail and your competitor gets the same hardtail but 37 lbs. That's the comparison. Okay great your hardtail climbs faster than my 2002 Brooklyn Machine Works freeride bike. Great. That means nothing.
  • 1 0
 @mca896: I'll admit I clicked on your profile to see if you had a pic of a BMW bike.....sadly disappointed.
  • 1 1
 @venturavin: i love riding my ebike. i can do 3 laps instead of 1. I have 3 times the impact on trails that i used to.
  • 196 7
 I think we can all agree that fat bike shaming is wrong, and I personally support bikes of every size and shape - even yours, Ibis.

#bikepositivity
  • 52 7
 Fat bikes are now accepted..but e-bikes? Sorry..not a bike.
  • 14 8
 @KeithShred: How long until they cancel fatbike term
  • 3 1
 @DuelingBanjos: hahahaha who TF knows but good call out
  • 6 3
 I'm an unashamed fat bike fan. Uses: Snow, trail, trail building, gravel, aimless riding around the woods, riding in crap weather, beach riding. It's not as efficient, weighs 38lbs, but has low gearing and it's the perfect DGAF bike.
  • 146 2
 Henry coming in hot to meet the minimum word count and minimum allotment for his monthly contribution.
  • 1 0
 You're not kidding - popular article - 380 comments and climbing!
  • 93 3
 I want a bike that's super light on the way up, and medium weight on the way down. I'd also like a handlebar mounted lever to toggle between those settings. And I want the cable for the weight adjust lever to not go through the headset.
  • 17 0
 Careful, Scott bikes maybe watching this great idea and can add more levers or a 'helium' button to help lighten bike on uphills Smile . But, sadly, if they do, they will have cable headset routing.
  • 6 1
 Need an onboard compressor to increase the density of the air inside the frame to 300 psi.
  • 1 0
 @Ryawesomerpm: That’s the price you pay
  • 19 0
 Grab some rocks at the top, put them in your downtube/backpack for the DH, leave them at the bottom.
  • 12 0
 If you drink all of your water as your climbing, you'll be heavier on the way back down. Want more weight? just drink more water. Good luck trying to find any fault with that logic.
  • 19 0
 @MuddyBrit: the fault with that is you're just moving the water from one place to another, and if the water was in a bottle on the bike, you've now transferred your center of mass higher. The solution would to drink the water on the way up, then urinate back into your bottle. Trust me I'm a gentleman scientist ( on daytime TV)
  • 1 0
 @rickybobby18 @MuddyBrit : In frame storage for the win!
  • 15 0
 I want a girl with a short skirt and a long jacket!
  • 2 0
 @MuddyBrit: I have a pretty active bladder. So this would likely make me lighter for the descent. lol
  • 1 0
 @rcrocha: Submarine tech at its finest. Load that ballast baby!
  • 1 0
 @rickybobby18: you rock!
  • 80 0
 Well that settles it then. Definitely putting a coil shock on my hardtail. Thanks, Henry!
  • 12 0
 *grabs duct tape
  • 2 0
 Weight doesn’t matter to those with light bikes…
  • 1 0
 @audeo03: bodyweight you mean, right?
  • 62 11
 Weight definitely matters if you do a lot of climbing.
  • 27 20
 If you do a lot of climbing you also do a lot of descending so performance matters too
  • 42 1
 @Mouette230: not necessarily. If the trails are steep, you'll do a lot more climbing than descending
  • 10 33
flag likeittacky (Feb 23, 2023 at 10:17) (Below Threshold)
 I never thought i'd say this but this why ebikes exist.
  • 9 2
 watch the video...conclusion is weight is a factor in XC but heavier components have longevity and performance value for trail and enduro bikes
  • 17 5
 I disagree with this general sentiment. Light is good for tech climbing in my opinion. Here in bham where we just grind fire roads I really don’t think it matters all that much. I just went from a super Carbon stumpy build that was sub 30 to a banshee titan that’s like 38 lbs and I don’t ride or climb less. Maybe I’m marginally slower but it didn’t change how much I climb at all. I did like 400k of vertical feet last year on bikes that weighed more than 35 lbs. if you wanna climb, you’ll climb.
  • 1 0
 @Madfella: underrated comment.

In my area, north of Charlotte, NC some parks run the trails in opposite directions every year. I rode a trail I came to love last year in this year's direction, and the climbs over the rock gardens absolutely suck. Last year they were full send downhill. This year's direction added 10 minutes due to the walls I have to climb that last year were fun drops off roots and rocks.
  • 8 1
 Only if it's against the clock.
  • 11 0
 Exactly. Weight doesn't matter when you're only doing shuttle runs on PNW flow trails.
  • 11 2
 @Mouette230: yes but the climbing-to-descending ratio for someone doing a lot of climbing is probably 8:1. Weight matters regardless of what this article states.
  • 4 7
 @merlin33: Only if you're weak and even then not so much. Like stated in the article a few extra kg will only add a few seconds to a minute on most climbs
  • 5 0
 @Mouette230: Probably 90% of time is spent climbing and 10% of time is spent descending for most riders.
  • 8 1
 @SintraFreeride: as someone that climbed over 750K' in 2022, I disagree.
  • 5 0
 @merlin33: I think weight is a factor is bike feel, it’s just doesn’t affect climb time all that much unless you climb tech trails a lot. It’s more tiring to muscle around a big bike both up and down. But on the down the weight helps smooth things out.

Idk. It’s a factor for sure, just not an all defining factor. You can have a heavy bike that pedals well and does huge days frequently. You can have a light bike that’s a bear to climb. Geo, tires, suspension and trail type all play just as much of a role.
  • 1 0
 @zmums: I do agree with what you state here:

Idk. It’s a factor for sure, just not an all defining factor. You can have a heavy bike that pedals well and does huge days frequently. You can have a light bike that’s a bear to climb. Geo, tires, suspension and trail type all play just as much of a role.
  • 6 1
 Weight matters everywhere in my opinion. A heavy bike wears me out a lot more with tighter trails descending, and popping the bike. I’m fairly strong in the gym as well.
  • 4 0
 @dualsuspensiondave: It is possible to have both within the scope of the terrain you ride most often. What I mean is, allow for some added weight where it’s needed and cut weight where it’s not….and then, learn how to ride with being a basher/hack. Simple. I’m with you though, weight matters everywhere.
  • 1 0
 @mikedk: The real purpose for frame storageSmile load it with a sock full of sand / dirt for that low center gravity weight. lol
  • 1 0
 @SintraFreeride: Effort as well. Try ride the biggest ride you do with another 5lbs on your bike. Not only will you be way more tired, but your legs may possibly cramp up.
  • 2 0
 @tacklingdummy: True, but I prefer slugging the 90% and have maximum fun on the 10%
  • 2 1
 Best of both worlds: front DH tire,rear trail tire with tire insert. To me that is my good to go setup,Michelin dh22 front/Butcher trail grid with a good tire insert. I found the butcher very resistant for the weight and good rolling speed.
A rear DH tire kills all the speed and made the bike sluggish for enduro rides.I would only use them in a bike park.
  • 1 0
 @itslightoutandawaywego: Monbo loop & Laurel Loop is not that much harder the other way. But yes it is better on Even years for sure!
  • 2 0
 @Mouette230: Fair enough. I have been there too pushing the 35lb bike (with coil rear shock and coil fork) up climbs too, but just prefer a lighter more balance rig now.
  • 1 0
 @SintraFreeride: The time component is deceptive. It's true if it's a steady state climb, but: (A) If you are riding with others that are equal you will spend extra energy trying to keep up if you are on the heaviest bike, you feel bad holding up the group. 30 seconds isn't long in the grand scheme of things but it feels like eternity if you are 30 seconds behind your buds. (B) Body motions getting over technical, loose, etc can be much more taxing on a heavy bike making you feel a lot more blown out at the end of a climb. Yes you can get some of that back if you have enough suspension to just monster truck up.

Like most internet sayings - it really only applies to a min/maxed scenario
  • 1 1
 @tacklingdummy: My bike weighs almost 19kg/42lbs it hasn't stopped me from doing +60km all day rides with +3000m of climbing. If you have a heavy bike and you ride a lot you get used to it.
  • 1 0
 @ICKYBOD: Thats true if your bike were to weigh a ton more but that's not what we are talking about here. Most people would benefit more from losing weight off their body and getting fitter than losing weight on their bike.
  • 3 0
 @SintraFreeride: "Most people would benefit more from losing weight off their body and getting fitter than losing weight on their bike." This is absolutely true- but it's also a little disingenuous. You get a reasonable level of base fitness and you will likely feel less tired at the top of a hill on a 31lb trail bike vs a 35lb enduro sled. Yup you can ride up any hill with any weight bike and you'll get used to it. Making a decision between a 31 and 32 lb bike based on weight is ludicrous. But saying weight doesn't matter isn't true.
  • 1 0
 @Mouette230: my solution giant anthem. Bigger brake in front codes. Tires magic Marie's at both ends .

I tried the dh casing mm but they felt like I was dragging my brakes all the time. Settled on trail casing and they are much more spritely climbers. I also like high rollers in the summer but at least locally I give up a bit of traction
  • 1 0
 @ICKYBOD: The question this article poses is whether or not the mtb industry should continue to pursue weight loss on mtb parts vs durability and performance. In my opinion that is a no brainer, I'd rather have a heavier bike that doesn't break down and performs better. This is why my current Nicolai G1 is close to 19kg. Now if in the future you could give me the same performance as my current bike with 5kg less of course I'll take it.
  • 46 0
 By using the gram to dollar conversion scale I literally poop over $10,000USD a day.
  • 31 0
 Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers u
  • 4 0
 @mtnfox37: Wouldn't it be crunching those numbers?
  • 3 0
 I assume carbon fiber is not the staple of your diet but pork chops are.
  • 5 0
 Sounds like you need more carbon in your diet.
  • 4 0
 @noapathy: It is fiber after all...
  • 1 0
 @kjjohnson: Exactly. Wink
  • 2 0
 Holy poop son
  • 4 0
 @mtnfox37: you meant poop those numbers up, right?
  • 45 1
 Any coincidence this drops 5 minutes after the REEB article?
  • 90 0
 Pinkbike is a puppet for big-steel.
  • 84 2
 @ryan77777: as long as those ArcelorMittal cheques keep coming, steel will continue to be real.
  • 6 0
 I'm gonna keep saying this any time I can, I have a Murmur that weighs only 29 lbs. Its fun as hell, I ride it everywhere.
  • 16 0
 ... and the REEB article came right after the Porsche's one, probably to recall us what a proper MTB made by passionate people is.
  • 2 1
 @HaggeredShins: how? Is it a size xxs?
  • 1 1
 @brianpark: Don’t mind you taking them brown envelopes - but only if the steel is being shaped by Reynolds!!!
  • 7 8
 Who said steel is heavier? My RocketMax with a Kitsuma Coil, SLX,and alloy wheels is around 36 lbs. Most steel rigs are stronger and lighter than high pivot carbon rigs like a Range or even the burlier aluminum frames.
  • 5 0
 @hamncheez: light parts! Its 490 reach, almost identical geo to my 161 so not small. I mostly use the Starling for trail/am so light casings have been acceptable. Reynolds 309s are about 1600g for the set, 11sp xx1, light pedals... nothing heavy, all light, a few concessions made but hella fun, super bendy damp bike
  • 2 0
 "Weight TBC"
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: A steel frame will add 2lbs at the very most vs a comparable carbon frame. You can save the on the wheels the wheelset alone.
  • 2 0
 @DangerDavez: actually, the cotic rocketmax size large weighs the same as the new Megatower, size large.
  • 31 1
 If you have rolling terrain like anywhere that’s not in the mountains, weight matters. If you’re in the mountains and alone like Henry who hates group rides, then what he is saying makes sense. Taking a fire road, ski lift or shuttle to the top? Go heavy. Not going to be exhausted trying to keep up with anyone else on a group ride? Go heavy. For all of us not in those two situations though, weight is a far more important factor to consider with our bikes. We all find the balance eventually. I’m glad the industry in general provides us with enough options to be as custom and specific as we want to be with our bike builds these days.
  • 15 0
 Every time this debate comes up the steady state climb example gets cited. This is where extra weight matters the least. Undulating tight technical terrain is where weight, travel and wheelbase matter. I have no issue climbing fire roads on my enduro bike...keeping up on an old school XC group ride is a totally different story.
  • 4 1
 I sure love my heavy, grippy tires here on the coast on the steep and wet rock and roots.

Whenever I convince myself that I can get away with anything else I have to explain to my wife where the scrapes and bruises came from.

‘I’ve ridden it a million times no problem but this time the tire went sideways so fast and I hit the dirt before I could even think’

Pretty obvious where he is coming from
  • 3 0
 @powellriviera: Minions + 130mm travel bike. Having grippy tires doesn't mean your bike has to weigh more than 30 pounds.
  • 29 0
 That's what my mom always told me, and now I'm fat
  • 12 0
 “Big boned”
  • 4 0
 “Well cushioned”
  • 21 0
 I don't care about autoplay but it would be rad if you could use the generic youtube embed player. All of your stuff shows up on my youtube feed anyways and I'd rather just click the link in the generic player and open it in youtube instead of pinkbike.
  • 5 0
 I think they are deliberately using the PB player so they have an alternative if YouTube decides for some reason PB is no bueno and pulls down or locks out their channel.
  • 4 0
 @IMeasureStuff: YouTube isn't some sketchy video host anymore, lol it's used more than anything else on the planet, there's zero risk of YouTube pulling wholesome Pinkbike content.

They use their own so that ad blockers don't work and they can sell ads directly. All about the money.
  • 2 0
 @tgent: this is absolutely not true. Plenty of YouTube contributors have had accounts shut down due to copyright or content that is flagged as inappropriate. Even if the claims were false, getting an account back up is way more difficult process. Would be interesting to see if @brianpark could enlighten us.
  • 1 0
 @IMeasureStuff: So if YouTubers are appropriately getting their accounts shut down due to copyright or inappropriate content, then there's no problem here, they should be. If they are wrongly flagged, they go through the process of getting it unlocked. It's not a difficult or long process and happens much less often that I think you're making it out to.

My reasons why they are using their own video host is 99% about the reasons I listed and 1% about concerns using YouTube.
  • 19 0
 Henry should get a new agent. He deserves prime time BBC or Discovery content. I want see him talking about penguins in Antarctica or African wildlife. He should be doing voiceovers for worldwide climate change documentaries. The only weight he should care about is the weight of his wallet after getting paid for the talent he is. Prestige Worldwide.
  • 17 1
 I think it depends on the individual person. For instance I weigh 56kg, so for me, a heavy bike is really hard to handle. However, for a 90kg heavyweight, a heavy bike probably isn't too much of a problem. So weight really does matter to me, both on my 9kg XC bike, but also my enduro rig.
  • 6 5
 Heavyweight? What does that make you paperweight?
  • 6 1
 @browner: I would say normal. Or to borrow a term from the boxers, featherweight.
  • 7 5
 @JoshCB: but whits heavier? A kilo of paper or a kilo of feathers?
  • 2 1
 Honestly I can tell a difference in handling if I have a tube strapped under my saddle or not, and I'm 100kg. Where the weight is matters.
  • 4 0
 @RonSauce: Honestly I can't tell the difference between a 9kg and 12kg bike because I don't know the metric system. USA USA USA...
  • 15 0
 The title is "Why Weight Doesn't Matter". Then Henry proceeds to tell us why weight DOES matter, as in "more weight is better if mostly going down hills and/or you think heavier components will last longer." Weight ALWAYS matters, one way or the other. On my XC race bike, every gram matters and I'll compromise durability and a tiny bit of downhill performance. On my enduro-type bike, I still want it to be light, but I'll give away some grams (but not pounds or kilos) for better downhill and extra durability.
  • 3 1
 Bang on. Well said
  • 14 0
 An excellent and interesting video Mr Quinney. Iv been running DH tyres on my trail bikes for 2 years now. Il make do with the extra effort needed on climbs with the rewards in grip and damping going down.
  • 14 1
 The message in this video is on point... after over 20 years of coaching MTB, we can honestly say one of the most common performance factors that is holding back most riders out there, is there bike set up... too often they prioritize weight and pedalling efficiency (hang overs from road riding) over the three critical outcomes that any bike set up should start with; stability, comfort and grip. If only we had a dollar for every time we recommended to a rider they swap to bigger, more aggressive tires, or bigger brakes, or even a more progressive, longer/slacker bike, regardless of who they are or where they ride! Haha... its cool though when they finally open up and heed our suggestions and then get back to us with... oh my gosh, my bike feels so much better!
  • 3 0
 @zepmtbcamps, just curious, but how often do you have you advised someone to get a new bike and had them follow through? I’m sure you see a broad range of bikes show up for your camps and lessons.

I’ve had that conversation with a couple clients before and I felt so weird telling them to spend thousands of dollars to improve their riding, but they benefited greatly from getting a different bike! Granted they were both going from $1200 hard tails to $4500+ full suspension bikes and were fully committed to investing in the hobby.
  • 3 0
 @ridebikesyall: We always respect people's budgets so we recommend new bikes with the idea of 'when they buy their next bike', as opposed to going home and buying something new, straight away! That usually makes it easier for them to open up and listen to the advice, without the worry that they need to spend a bunch of cash right away. Hope that helps.
  • 13 0
 The more you ride, the less extra weight matters. However, therein lies the rub: a lot of us don’t ride as often as a pinkbike staffer/ pro racers do.

I think Pinkbike would do well to add an average rider to their testing regime. Have a rider that only rides once or twice a week review the same bikes and gear as MIke, Mike, Henry, Matt, Sarah etc.

I also have no problem saying that a big part of bike purchasing decisions come down to: Does the trail bike weigh under 30lbs. Bikes are getting heavier and heavier and I would argue it’s more for warranty “durability” than trail use durability…
  • 11 0
 Maybe weight does not matter if you are a downhiller, but us folk down here in flat land like light weight and good rolling tires. Tried some Ardents (heavy, slow rolling) as a winter tire and it made me much slower. Was not nearly as much fun riding. Sticking with Rocket Ron
  • 3 0
 Try out the Ground Control. Many are calling it the DownMidWest tire.
  • 10 1
 You'd have so much more fun with some Magic Marys Super Gravity Ultrasoft, I swear!
  • 5 0
 You'd be shocked how little the top pros DH bikes weight.
  • 7 0
 Funny, Ardents would be considered light and fast-rolling where I live. Tires like that would be a treat to climb with here. And scary AF on the descents.
  • 12 0
 Ardent heavy and slow. What the hell
  • 3 0
 @NWBasser: Used to run Ardents on my 26" bike. Def faster than HRIIs, and def scarier on descents Big Grin

I might play around with a Dissector on the rear, replacing a DD DHRII. Forekaster would be interesting but only EXO casing...
  • 5 0
 @Mntneer: everything is relative - 950 grams for the ardent vs 650 grams for the rocket ron and a lot more rolling resistance for the ardent. But the ardent is a lightweight when compared to a downhill tire I reckon.
  • 2 0
 @willworkforbeer: Ah yeah, a light bike and tires would be a real treat to ride in the less pointy parts of the country.
  • 11 0
 I would agree that on a 170mm enduro bike you should be forgoing the weight game but I have a 25lb xc bike and a 30lb trail bike and on that end of the bike spectrum I would favor low weight for sure. Makes for much better long days riding and if you aren't hammering gravity based trails all day then the few lbs will make for a more enjoyable experience on the average trail. It all depends on what, where and how long you ride on average.
  • 11 1
 Yeah, weight doesn't 'add up' as a big deal on paper. But all-things-remaining-equal a lighter bike is just more enjoyable to ride. That said, if you're still lamenting the fact that tires are 'so heavy these days' then you need to talk to someone, help is available for your condition!
  • 10 0
 Ask the average rider how they feel after doing a 90 minute climb with DH tires. Your point is totally valid, @henryquinney, but only if you're fit enough to pull it off without suffering so much that you don't enjoy the experience.
  • 7 0
 Yeah, that's fair. I mean, it can suck - but I suppose you could also say "imagine how easy that climb would be on an XC bike". It's a slippery slope.
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney: One bike, just change the wheelset for trail rides to something lighter rims and tires and you're golden! I want a Rimpact Pro front and back anyway! The front without insert can't handle a lighter tyre but it still more fun to pedal around than a Maxxgrip DH tyre. Maxxgrip kills the joy of pedaling for me!
  • 2 0
 Even when you are fit, running DH tires causes more fatigue and makes you go slower for most of the ride. Which means you won’t be doing as much riding in a day as you otherwise could.
  • 10 0
 Everyone needs to watch video before commenting as the title is misleading somewhat...it makes a great point (and production value is fantastic). Stig reference was worth the watch on its own.

Video spoiler...weight matters for XC but there are performance and longevity benefits associated with heavier components on enduro and trail bikes..thicker tires, coil shocks, bigger/thicker rotors, and using more durable drive train components.

well done Henry
  • 13 1
 I feel like this is the third time we’ve seen a variation of this article…
  • 10 0
 Best Pinkbike article in a while. Finally someone on here pointing out that what the mtb industry needs is higher performance and durability and not super light, fragile and constant maintenance parts.
  • 7 0
 *Starts with super light enduro bike (one of the lightest on the market), a $10k+ build*
*Makes it slightly heavier and says heavier bikes are fine*

This isn't a great baseline for a weight comparison.

Compare a 30 lb enduro bike to a 40 lb enduro bike and I guarantee most people will be much happier on the 30lb sled.
  • 7 0
 *throws new 25lb Spur in the trash.

JK, my 25lb spur is a blast to ride my local trails, yeah it's not going to blast bike park stuff like a heavier DH bike, but thats not my local area. We've got steep punchy climbs with fast flowy descents.... perfect for the Spur IMO
  • 1 0
 *cries in 30lb Stumpjumper I built only because Spur frames were impossibly to get at the time*

On that note, I wonder if they’re becoming more readily available yet…
  • 1 0
 @ridebikesyall: they're in stock now online.
  • 1 0
 @ridebikesyall: I almost bought a Stumpy, then last December some Spur frames popped up, called the LBS and was like "BUY NOW!"
  • 6 0
 I went from a 28lb 120mm fr-rr bike to a 38lb 160mm fr 142mm rr bike and lost about 2-4 minutes up my local 30 minute climb trail. But, notably, I havent cracked a linkage while descending on the big bike while the small bike did.
  • 14 4
 Pinkbike doesn't matter.
  • 6 0
 Does anything?
  • 9 0
 Did anyone actually watch the video before posting their opinion?
  • 27 1
 No, we're all at work and videos are a risky business.
  • 3 0
 Was thinking the same thing. It was more a conversation than a definitive statement and discussed the nuances of when or why it may matter just fine IMHO.
  • 6 0
 @kingtut87: This. Plus I ain't got time for videos.. unless I'm on my couch, horizontal, and it shows up in my YT suggestions on my Firestick and I click on it before I zzzz out.
  • 3 4
 I watched the video it had tire brands I have never heard of and a lot of Ebike content. I really don’t like the direction the bike industry is going…
  • 8 3
 Heavy bikes are totally OK...until you ride a light bike, or more specifically, one with light wheels. Butted spokes on a properly tensioned wheel makes a huge difference. Light hubs like Hope hubs are not ridiculously expensive. Figure out the right combo of tire and or tire insert, and you can save some rotating mass. Another point is that manufacturers have added weight needlessly with the massive 10-51 t cassettes that cost a fortune. Enduro or all mountain bikes would be better served with suspension designed around a 28 or 26t front cog, allowing the rear cassette to be more like a 10 or 11-36 or maybe 40t top.
  • 6 0
 Im a simple man,if I see a post from Henry, I hit the notification, scroll up and down, press like, press subsribe, press in a threadfit, press my bike up a hill and so on! Yeah im a fan.
  • 6 1
 Light bikes feel nervous & twitchy on downhills. My Privateer 161 with XL frame, aluminium everything, Dh tyres & inserts is the best climbing bike I have ever owned.
A strong pedalling position & stiff frame is far more beneficial than older bikes that are lighter, but you are seated over the back wheel & hanging off the bars on steep climbs.
  • 4 0
 I've had a bias for low maintenance DH-ish performance on my trail/enduro rig for about 6 years - weight just isn't a factor when considering what to buy, as I'd rather winch and bomb than climb quickly and nurse descents. Just get bigger legs, fitter, carry more calories, make your mates wait 40 seconds for you etc.
  • 4 0
 My newish enduro bike is 16.5kg, about 2kg heavier than my old trail bike and I love it. It's better at pedalling and better at descending. Geometry and kinematics have more than made up for extra weight. Unsurprising that the nuance of the argument here has been lost on a lot of commenters here.
  • 1 0
 Surprised (not surprised) that fitness and modern bike design has not come up more often. Your point is well made. My 34lb Clash is a much better climber and descender than my older lighter trail bike. I am also fitter these days which I think is THE most important component of how well a bike climbs (in the real world).
  • 2 0
 Fully agree but it would be even better if it was the same weight as your old bike
  • 3 0
 I have a XL Alu Slayer 29. Pretty sure it weighs more than 40lbs, but I don't care. It still pedals better than a bike that size should and it smashes when I point it downhill (without any worries that something is going to break).

In my particular situation, losing 50lbs and improving my fitness did FAR more than saving a little bit on the bike ever will.
  • 3 0
 If you want to know if weight doesn't matter, strap some lead onto your front triangle; all of these changes are about performance. In all of these situations, "light" = flexy, worse heat dissipation, less durability, etc; improving these performance characteristics are more important that weight, sure, but what we really want is these performance improvements at the same weight.
  • 5 0
 I really enjoy riding primitive trails, when the inevitable hike a bike occurs the weight makes a huge difference. Willing to give up some shredding ability for weight.
  • 4 1
 If you ever hike a bike the difference between say 12,5kg and 17,5kg (probably the range of what most of us ride) is absolutely MASSIVE.

I don't know why but these 5kilos don't feel like an extra 40% they feel like the bike is twice as heavy. Try it yourself. You feel it even when you ride. For me weight is important, but obviously changing tyres or rims for lighter ones affects the performance.

Takeaway - as long as you can afford it, save weight on parts that don't affect ride performance (as much).
  • 5 0
 You have too much intellect for this crew, Quinney. Your soapbox needs some additional stiffness there (but keep it vertically compliant!). 5 stars.
  • 4 0
 i really agree with this, ive gone from xc racing and focusing a lot on the grams. but now i would absolutely sacrifice a minute on the climbs for a bike that feels better downhill.
  • 3 0
 I spend more time climbing than descending. Weight does indeed matter. The less fatigued I am after a long climb, the chances of a fatigue induced injury/fall on the descent is greatly reduced. I enjoy the sense of covering a lot of ground and with a lighter bike I have more loop options to consider for a 60 min or 90 min ride. With a heavier bike, I'd have to consider the nature of the climbs on certain trails and the time and energy it would take, and consequently, certain trails/loops become a non-starter.

I think it's kind of embarrassing that we're nearing a period in mountain biking where carbon frames/bike weights are approaching aluminum weights. It should be the other way around right? What's disappointing is that paying a premium brought with it an expectation of weight savings. Even accounting for inflation, paying a premium is getting you a heavier bike.

Just my 2 cents from a consumer's perspective.
  • 1 0
 I think its pretty important to consider a little more information when deciding how to spec a bike and whether or not its too heavy. IE, this is cut an dry, but more horses for courses. I believe the trails you ride, how long your rides typically are, what kind of bike you ride, and if you are a lighter rider or heavier rider (both body weight & your riding style). My enduro bike is 39lbs, and spends its days doing mostly on fire roads, shuttling, or lifts. Weight wasn't a priority when I built it, so it has heavy casing tires, inserts, coil shock, 38mm fork etc, and I like the setup for its intention. I also ride pretty heavy and weigh about 185lbs geared up, so that durability and ride feel comes at a cost of being a bit of a pig on longer/punchier trails. In contrast, my trail bike is 32lbs, has lighter casing tires, XC insert in the rear, and lighter suspension components as I know I am going to be doing bigger days on it, and a lighter component selection that is still capable on the more pedally days where outright DH performance.
  • 3 0
 55 kg rider here, bike weight affects me a ton, that being said adding bike weight for practicality, especially on a decent focused bike is no big deal, grow a pair and ride your bike up the hill. if it takes you an extra 5 min so beat it, maybe you will gain a little more fitness, you can now enjoy your decent with your reliable dialed grippy ass bike. Different story for xc. Steel bikes are stupid. Get stronger legs, not a stronger weight weenie mentality.
  • 3 0
 Classic case of the North Shore Paradigm. It usually manifests itself in the form of total disregard towards every type of riding that doesn't involve mega-gnarly double black diamond trails. Most if not all PB editors seem ignore the fact that the vast majority of people don't really ever ride anything but mellow flow trails and have absolutely nothing at all to gain from running long-travel enduro bikes and dh components. In that case, if you mainly ride flow trails through undulating terrain, weight does matter.
  • 2 0
 Ive just changed from a bike that weighed 33lb to a bike that weighs 32lbs. Can I notice a difference? No. But my fitness is poor. As everything, if you are top level you will notice a difference but Id argue you wouldnt notice any less than a 10% difference.

Where weight saving can make sense is rolling weight, again to a degree. Weight has its advantages of assisting roll on so there needs to be a balance. Its also pointless having a lightweight system thats not heavy duty enough to deal with what you are riding.
  • 2 0
 Weight matters if it is on unsprung masses. It's true that a heavier bike is better downhill, but adding weight on wheels, discs, shifter, is the worst thing you can do. There is a compromise on the tires because today there are no 1kg tires that don't break. If they existed they would be the right choice.
  • 6 0
 What about coil forks ? They are still really niche and nobody runs them
  • 5 0
 I run a coil fork and shock on my aluminium Banshee Titan! Smile First for me and won't go back to air, no more hand/arm problems anymore!
  • 8 0
 I consciously 'upgraded' my factory 36 to bomber z1 coil. It's plush, easy to setup, maintenance free. Yes, it's heavier by 500 or so grams but I don't ride a carbon bike or have carbon wheels so it doesn't matter. It pairs nice with my bomber cr coil shock and not looking back to air suspension!
  • 5 0
 @zadrozny91: Same I have a Z1 coil and I just don't get why coil shocks are so popular, but not those. Even in his video Henry is preaching the coil shock for it's performance in a point telling weight does not matter. Yet he has an air fork upfront. Why not go all in ?
  • 5 0
 @zadrozny91: I went this exact route on my '22 153. Never ridden a high end coil before - so excited to hit dirt. I'm hoping I like it as I'm a set/forget kinda guy. It'd be nice to just worry about tire pressure for a ride and that's it.
  • 5 0
 Coil Ohlins on my bike. Love them.
  • 4 0
 I've got a coil fork on a steel hardtail. After over 20 years of riding and experimenting with parts I've learnt that if you want stuff that lasts and performs well, don't get hung up on weight. I 100% agree with this video.
  • 3 0
 @iduckett: I had this setup on my '22 Spec Status (progressive coil on the shock) and now using it on my '22 Raaw Madonna V2 (linear coil). Now all I do is check tire presure before the ride. I even stopped locking my fork for climbs, it just climbs good enough! Although the Raaw platform is a much better climber than Status. One thing somebody recommended was to run the z1 fork with compression 1/3-1/2 closed (around 1 o'clock). I'm still testing that vs wide open for going down.
  • 2 0
 I hear all kinds of smack from the uninitiated on my 150mm Suntour Zeron coil but it's my fav fork ever ridden and the damper/ valve design is pretty much the exact same as a Marzocchi--Also a bit lighter. I can trust it as much on hero drops as I do high speed chatter. Dead simple to setup & service and changing out a different travel/ stiffness coil takes the same 15 minutes.

I'm also riding a steel enduro hardtail on 35mm WTB rimsw 2.6" Spec. Hillbilly mudspikes, so there's that. It weighs about as much as an FS enduro sled but I feel just dandy having all of my pedal power on climbs and general acceleration so the weight has neeeeever bothered me. Also she's a dead eyed cruise missile when I point her downhill. Looks at obstacles and tech like Drago looked at Rocky(IV) and angers my FS friends when they can't gap me. 64ha, 435 stays, 485 reach, 1248 wheelbase, 55mm bb drop
  • 2 0
 Smashpot 38 is the best single crown fork I’ve ever used. Ext is next. It’s heavy but my hands feel better than ever (still get tired but less)
  • 2 0
 @zadrozny91: Great to hear! If I can get away with the tire squeeze test for my solo lunch rides I'll be even happier! The Madonna V2 has the same shock size as my 153... So if it doesn't work out I have another bruiser option Big Grin
  • 1 0
 I've got a helm coil. It's really nice!
  • 2 0
 Of course weight matters when you are comparing different types of bikes for different purposes. An enduro rig must necessarily be heavier than an XC bike just due to the impact and loads an enduro bike will see.

I think what people are missing, is that weight shouldn’t matter in a given category. Buy the bike best suited to what you want to do and then don’t fuss about what it weighs. I ride a the top spec Devinci Troy, an all mountain, or trail bike. It’s built up to “burly” spec because that’s the kind of riding I like to do. Yeah it’s full carbon frame, carbon wheels, carbon bars, but I run Cush core, heavy tires and keep all my tools and pump on the bike. It weighs in at just over 35 lb and is still my favourite bike to ride despite its extra heft.
  • 6 0
 well done Henry, that was a great watch!
  • 2 0
 I paused F1 pre-season testing to watch this.. Because, you know, Henry. Makes me feel a bit better about my rolling contradiction of a bike- a combination of XC light here and enduro heavy there. Now, back to the other Brits.. With their standy uppy bits, as opposed to their wobbly bits..
  • 5 0
 Henry - I disagree with Pinkbike managers. You should be making more videos - Keep up the great work!
  • 6 1
 Good lord you guys need a powermeter to be able to measure differences (or the lack of them) vs regurgitating bro science
  • 4 1
 @mmiloou So true. They also need to start proof reading Quinney's articles, or at least get him a grammar app as a late Christmas gift. I'm starting to think he was exiled from Britain.
  • 4 0
 I know it's about the clicks/views/likes, but sometimes it's nice to have actual words to read. I'm a boomer, I'll see myself out.
  • 2 0
 1-2 lbs in the frame doesn't matter much. But 1lb in the tires DEFINITELY does. 7-8 lbs overall definitely does depending on what you're doing. I'm very thankful to have 2 bikes because it's life changing compared to having 1 enduro bike to ride everywhere.
  • 4 0
 Thanks for that Henry. Solid video. Would love to see more of this. Maybe a counter video from Mike focusing on BCBR type riding and the advantages of light weight.
  • 2 0
 It's all about what you ride and how you ride it. I prefer lighter bikes as I tend to do long rides with a lot of climbing. It's not hard to get a modern trail bike light enough but still hold up to AM style abuse. My XC/Trail bike 130mm Fox 34 -120mm 2015 Orbea Occam TRc in XL sizing is sitting at 25.5# with Maxxis Ikon 2.6 and 2.35 EXO tires. I still run 1x11 but with the extended range Garbaruk cassettes, 10-46t. My other bike is a 2018 Yeti SB 5.5 Turq with 160mm Fox 36 FIT4 and the stock Fox EVOL DPS shock. The yeti is sitting at 27.5# with the same Fox 150mm dropper post but is running Schwalbe 2.35 tires with the snake skin sidewalls. I didn't spend a ton on my builds but I did carefully spec them to pedal well and still rail down hill.
  • 2 0
 How are you liking the Garbaruk cassette?
  • 4 0
 "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable" - Boris the bullet dodger.

Seriously though I have no idea why everyone in YouTube is obsessed with weighing scales. I don't care.
  • 2 0
 I'd love to see someone run a correlational analysis looking at bike weight and performance on XC, EWS and WC DH. Just look at results vs. bike weight. It's of course a bias sample of incredible riders doing very specific things with their bikes- but would be interesting as I'm not sure weight would show as the most important factor. My hypothesis would be there is a acceptable range vs lighter better and then within that range it doesn't matter much. I mean- speed is also not the end result many riders prioritize. Enjoyable video Henry. Way to keep up the deliverables for your bosses.
  • 1 0
 that would be interesting. id take it one step further and bring a scale to the TH of a busy area and compare what people think there "ride ready" bike weighs and what the actual is. I think a lot of riders go off of what the bike was advertised at and it a different story for sure on most.
  • 2 0
 Couldn't agree more. I'd say from 2006 - 2014ish I pretty much built my bike every year to make it as light as possible (within restraints of XT/X0 style budgets). It got interesting around that 2014 mark when all of a sudden you could build 160mm bikes capable of riding DH trails well under 30lbs (those with XX1/XTR budgets probably reached this threshold a few years earlier). I think my personal first instance was a 27.5 bronson with a 34 float that was probably 28lbs with pedals. After actually riding that thing on DH trails I immediately took up the same opinion this video is about and started adding weight and crossing back over the 30lb threshold for beefy tires, bigger brakes, beefy suspension.
  • 2 0
 LEAKED! Pinkbike's upcoming list of "engagement booster" articles:

Tuesday: Are E-Bikes For REAL Mountain Bikers?
Thursday: Why Weight Doesn't Matter
Saturday: Bonds have more fun - why 007 would ride 26" and you should too.
Monday: Only roadies ride clipless.
Wednesday: Heroes in a half-shell - the case against the full face.
Friday: Aloooominum - You're saying it wrong.
Sunday: Valve cores ARE core - bring back the inner tube.

Oh FFS, I came here to highlight that the titles might be a little intentionally provocative and instead have just got involved with the debate instead. Kudos Brian!
  • 2 0
 The one thing this article doesn't mention is how heavier and more robust components are often a necessity for heavier riders who are putting greater forces through their bike, and also how the extra weight of those heavier components compared to the proportionately heavier rider is pretty miniscule in reality...

Ie. at 60kg many guys can get away with single caliper brakes on their enduro bikes. At 110kg, I need dual calipers on my Downcountry bike...

A bike that is 2-3kg heavier for a guy that is 50kg heavier seems inconsequential really?
  • 2 0
 It's all about picking the right parts to save weight on.
Don't go gram counting on parts where it negatively affects performance like tyres or smaller rotors/brakes but on the simpler parts that still do the same job weather they are light or not like cranks, stem or even frame, you should absolutely chase those grams, will help make the bike more agile and climb better without sacraficing the other end.
  • 2 0
 Also important to consider rider weight, light riders can get away with much lighter parts.
Trail wheels / tyres and a 35/36mm fork might act and perform similarly for a light rider as enduro wheels / tyres with a 38mm fork would for a heavy rider, i like the idea of bikes being available in a burly or light build at a simlar price so customers can choose depending on thier weight and riding style / location, instead of being pigeon holed to a certain build if you want a certain travel and goemetry frame.
  • 2 0
 Loved this.
2023.... return of old school all mountain/FR bikes, loved my VPfree with coil totems up front and dual ply tyres in the mountains. Still on 10 speed, 11.36T too, if you need a smaller gear in the UK, walk!
But they keep spending a fortune building blue flow trails up where I live which are way better on lighter bikes with lighter tyres pumped up hard!

Never left the having a coil up front and back if I can. Love the Push upgrade to a Lyrik, transforms the fork into a dream.
Just waiting for the parts to arrive to convert my Air boxxer into coil, 1 season back on ari up front is 1 season too many.
  • 2 0
 Best article of the past years here on pb.
I discovered after six months of mtb that weight is much, much less important than geo/components. My Propain Tyee is about 3 kg heavier than my previous (YT Jeffsy) but excel in basically every riding area, including climbing. Also, having a aluminium frame vs. carbon before boost my confidence knowing that it will take a beating when a carbon so easily breaks if you hit a rock hard.
  • 5 0
 The title of the video should've been "Why weight doesn't matter if all you care is about descending".
  • 2 0
 1000g tires are not light you should have compared to 600g. I had very light tires and it was glorious for climbing but they last 2 weeks and my rims got destroyed. You have to take the weight off where you can so you can put it where it matters to you. Where I ride the trails are made of knives and saw blades, so the heaviest tires are a must. But I don't need 180mm of travel or an Enduro frame so that's where the trade off is. Same thing if you are heavy on the shifters you may want to prioritize a drive train that last vs a light one.
  • 2 0
 I'm probably a different breed of rider but I love the climb almost as much as the decent. They both present their challenges in different ways. I like a steady climb with technical sections, the physical effort involved. Yeah no adrenalin rush but being fit enough not to dab or pull through without stopping is very sastifying. So having a bike that is fun to climb is important to me. Weight plays a roll in the satisfaction. When ride time is spent more with climbing why not find enjoyment in that?
  • 1 0
 As a rider who likes to climb and descend and weighs just slightly over 200lbs while carrying an extra 10-15 on his back, I agree with this argument. Spending extra hundreds to thousands of dollars to shave off a pound or two while I'm packing that much extra weight doesn't make sense to me either. My Foes Alpine (I swapped the 2.8s for 2.4s) was one of the heaviest bikes I've owned but it was one of the best climbers. My Foes Mixer that I built using slightly heavier and not quite top of the top of the line parts is lighter than my Alpine but heavier than most enduro/all mountain bikes and it is by far the best performing bike I've owned.
  • 1 0
 I’ve never been a massive weight saver but I recently upgraded my tires to something a little more burly due to my riding style/ needs. Coming from tires significantly lighter (with much less sidewall protection and traction) I did notice these new ones are a bit much to lug around. I’m already getting used to them but i jib around a lot and ride street when I’m bored and that’s where I notice the weight the most. Love the traction but I’m half tempted to stick my little tires back on
  • 2 0
 It’s also worth mentioning the rider weight vs the bike weight. I only weigh 135 pounds, my bike weighs 30 pounds. Shaving weight of the bike makes a much bigger impact for me than say a 200 pound rider.
  • 3 2
 The only reason I slam my negative rise stem is because my fox 32 and carbon rims are too damn light and the front end won't stay on the ground to save its life! so in conclusion the best XC bikes are the ones with added weight (in the front) !
  • 4 0
 Smaller diameter rims with shorter spokes. Stronger and not unreasonable weight?
  • 1 0
 Agree that weight doesn't make that much of a difference, especially when you compare a 31-32 pound trail bike to a 33-34 pound all-mountain, or 35 pound enduro. The marginal few pounds between categories is hardly noticeable -- I think it depends more on your desired ride experience more than anything else. And then tire selection also makes a huge difference.
  • 4 1
 Longer rides, weight 100% matters! Give me a lightweight trail bike for long rides and a GX or XT 30 lb trail bike for rougher steeper terrain.
  • 3 0
 name checks out
  • 3 0
 Anyone else ride with a Monster T in front years ago? It was an upperbody workout like no other. There's weight and then theirs WAIT?!!
  • 2 0
 I still have a Monster in front and the bike is +/- 60lbs
  • 2 0
 @Seldomseen83: you probably like forearms like popeye!
  • 2 0
 Back when I raced DH i had a Risse Champ...that was like a 12lb fork. I weighed 145lbs and it was hard to quickly pick up. Weight doesn't matter if you want to just plow through stuff or pick terrible lines, but if you want to go fast there's a balance of rider weight/ strength, to bike weight and balance.
  • 2 0
 Well, the title of the video is a bit of a misnomer....

The conclusions of it are quite a bit more nuanced and reasonable. Appropriate weight for function and durability isn't as clicky though. Fair play @henryquinney
  • 2 0
 its great video!
  • 1 0
 weight has never been a consideration in a bike build. I havent noticed a large difference in ride quality in any way that i can blame on weight between my trail and downhill bike. My hardtail is fairly light and it tends to skip over the trail rather than plow through it but thats probably the lack of suspension.
  • 2 1
 If weight doesn’t matter why was Greg Minnar telling us hire delighted was that the paint on his worlds bike was lighter than his normal one and those few grams were worth it? Why in f1 are they taking paint off cars which saves grams out of 750kg weight makes it perform better? If weight doesn’t matter why do dh racers use non dh rims because they are lighter and they don’t care how long they last? I agree that skimpy tyres are a false saving but equally 90% don’t need dh weight tyres on our bikes
  • 1 0
 Again, thanks for all the subtle laughs. I love your deadpan delivery and not stopping for reactions to your jokes and puns. I'm sure some it goes right over the heads of a few. I agree with the concept. It's the same in the road world where you see the weekend rider obsessing over titanium spoke nipples where shaving a few pounds off his own frame would make the most difference. Moving towards that happy blend of performance and longevity is where most of us should be looking but it's funny how few of us could accurately guess the weight of a bike by how it rides. That could be a fun follow up - weigh a bunch of bikes (preferably ones that have some mods), have the pinkbike crew ride them and then guess their weights. It would be interesting to see how close those that are in the industry could get.
  • 1 0
 This is an interesting topic to me. Over the course of the last year I went from a 33lb Sentinel Carbon with "trail" tires and air suspension to a 39lb Spire Alloy with DH tires. During that time I swapped in a coil shock, a much heavier link, Cushcore in the rear, and did a coil conversion on the Sentinel, and it was about 37lbs. I ran that setup basically through most of the summer and did fine with it. I got the Spire and actually swapped pretty much all of the parts over from the Sentinel, but also upgraded to the DH tires to make it roughly 39lbs, maybe even closer to 40. I rode the Spire a few times like that, and I couldn't believe how much heavier it felt. I then got some carbon hoops and swapped the coil shock and fork to air at both ends, and that got it down to about 38lbs. I was admittedly in off season shape when I did my one and only test ride in that setup, but it still felt remarkably heavy. So here is the conclusion I came to: Weight matters, but I think there are thresholds where it goes beyond what I can accept. Couple that with perhaps going too far on frame reach, and the result is a bike that is just too heavy for all-around use. I've since sold the Spire frame and gone back to my old Sentinel, which is sitting at about 35lbs now with carbon rims, air fork and shock, and DH tires. I haven't had a chance to ride it yet because of snow and injury, but I think I'll be back in the zone where the weight isn't a noticeable factor. I think there is definitely merit in considering the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass, so wheel, tire, cassette, and derailleur weight is the most impactful overall. But even that said, sacrificing durability or grip easily negates weight savings in those areas, so there has to be careful consideration depending on the type of riding you do.
  • 1 0
 Misleading headline - it's not that weight doesn't matter; it does, and makes a noticeable difference. The tradeoff between weight/cost/performance (for things like stiffness where it counts)/reliability (for things like rims on iffy lines and such) often gives you a better outcome if you're not unduly prioritizing weight.

Example - I'm a heavy rider, and not super technical. Saving a little weight on wheels and tires would be nice - but not if it means they get all noodly when railing into a turn, or ending my ride anytime I don't pick my way through a rocky line just right. Or takes brakes - yep, those Zees are awfully heavy, but they give me enough reliable power to make my ride much more enjoyable, and the performance penalty pales in comparison.
  • 1 0
 Jumping into mtb in 1991, after a long stint in BMX, racing and freestyle, mostly street and all types of ramps, weight DOES matter. Back in the day at least it did. I still think anything with a weight limit, almost every carbon wheel available has a 250 lbs limit, it's going to fail. That means there is a limit, a threshold that should never be passed. Even a 165 lbs rider can put well over 250 lbs of force on a wheel. I have lighter frames, but DH/AM parts on my bikes. I had 3 bars snap off at the stem in less then a year of use, seat posts break, stems break, cranks break or crack, rims explode. Yeah, 1600gram, 29er, carbon trail wheelset, not riding that, ever. Even if it's free. I'm fine with it weighing 2-3 lbs more, I can make it home at least
  • 1 0
 The bike industry is making everything beefier/heavier to serve dual purposes of eMTB and MTB. For example, if you want an RS/Fox fork with longer travel, you now have to move up to heavier 38mm stanchions, which is overkill for a lighter rider. The real answer the bike industry wants to give us is: 'if you are tired of pedalling uphill your 35lb mid range MTB, here's an eMTB option for you.'
  • 1 0
 My current bike 2019 stumpjumper alloy is 33lbs not that heavy by today's standards. But I really want a light weight bike after having it for 4 years. Tired of lugging it around. I want something I can ride all day and not get tired.
  • 1 0
 Idk, I have a 35ln enduro bike and a 30lb trail bike with almost identical geometry, and the lighter bike feels fantastic on flatter trails or long mileage days. Maybe frame weight doesn’t matter, but wheels and tires matter a whole lot.
  • 1 0
 do you even climb bro? Big Grin I like Henry's articles. He is a well-educated dude. But I disagree here. The proper tool for a specific job. I had a heavy, DH oriented ( read upgraded) enduro, and that bike sucked everywhere where it is not pointed down. Now I have 140/130mm trail bike that is prob at least 3kg lighter, it still kicks ass on DH trails, but it is so good at pedaling... I think I actually like climbing now.

Real enduro ( 180\170) bikes is "wanna be" DH rig, that is not as good as DH, but also sucks everywhere else
  • 1 0
 As the tech progresses, allowing us to do more, ride harder and faster thru rough terrain, bikes get heavier, there comes a time when ebike and enduro merge. One is moving down the weight scale and the other is moving up. For me, I don't want a heavy bike for my riding, and when it comes to that, it will likely be an ebike...
  • 1 0
 Regarding cassettes; it was presented as durability vs lightweight but it's more about cost. An X01 cassette already last about twice as many miles as XTR and it's lighter. The new Linkglide cassettes sound like an ok idea (focus on long-term affordability) but Shimano should be able to make their XT and XTR cassettes last longer. I'm running a Sramano setup now on one bike with an XO1 shifter/derailleur and XTR cassette. This is probably my favorite setup performance wise but when the XTR cassette wears out I'll probably go back to X01 for the longevity.
  • 1 0
 The way I look at this. To get an object from point a to point b requires a certain amount of energy expenditure(kj, watts whatever). A heavier object following the same a to b path will always require more energy expenditure. Obviously, this is very simplified look(rolling resistance, COM, etc), but the general concept is simple.
  • 2 0
 This does not count for descending! Forgot
  • 1 0
 There are some good points but I think tyre choice is a bit more complex (without getting into tread patterns). This is totally subjective but a tyre can have too much grip and more importantly too much damping. If that is the case it kills all the playfulness of the bike. I rode an old Baron (I think it was the Project version) on the front wheel of my rigid bike and it had amazing grip and smoothness. It was only when I switched to a Minion DHF in Dual and regular EXO casing that the bike came to life. Much more work to stay on line in off-camber corners with roots but much easier to hop and play around. I prefer the latter.
Funnily enough the weight difference between those tyres isn't that big. About 100 grams if I recall that correctly. It's more the compound and casing design in general.
  • 1 0
 I figure suspension kinematics makes the most difference in climbing. I've seen linkage evaluation videos where the presenter changes the size of the chainring, causing the rear shock to extend or compress noticeably. Secondarily, I would say tire tread pattern and compound (rather than weight).
  • 1 0
 Tire/Rim weight can be felt. Sprung weight far less so, which is why no one screams how much better their bike feels when they drink all the 2.2lbs of water out of the bottle you hang on your frame. I say this as a husky 6' man, though. If I was 120lbs and weaker I may feel very different, but doubt it.
  • 1 0
 Was thinking about this today on the trail as I passed a couple lycra guys on lightweight XC rigs. My thought was... their bikes (and clothes) are better suited for gravel or road surfaces. I likened it to driving a Porsche off road. Sure you can do it, but why would you, there are better vehicles for off roading.

Reducing weight will indeed lower your Strava times or help you finished higher in a race. However, it does come at the expense of capability, control, and comfort. You're better off choosing the right vehicle for the terrain and really enjoying the sport or recreation the way it was intended.
  • 1 0
 Well, when I built my Evil Offering I was thinking at keeping it as close as possible to 14kg
It just was a mistake
Changed the shock to coil
Dumped the light tyres for super gravity
Bigger 220/203 rotors
It now sits at 15.4kg but I don’t have to think about anything, it just goes where I point and it’s still as playful and as great climbing as it was before, if not better!
  • 1 0
 First off, do we call him "the Beeeeard"? and can we get him to do a similar test with a Simpson Bandit helmet vs an old leather roadie hairnet??
(Yes, I'm that old. the term "roadie" didn't even exist when those "helmets" were what we wore. It's all Joe Breeze's fault)

On topic though - I fully agree that a heavy casing makes a huge difference, and that most of those differences are for the best. BUT I still have to get my ass up the hill and don't want to put up with the other (younger and lighter) guys ribbing any more than I have to.
So, what's the happy medium? Carbon rims, big brakes, and light-ish DH casing tires? Cushcore in a trail tire?? Heavier drivetrain stuff shouldn't matter much, and a coil shock has real upside, but more rubber out there at the edge of that big rotating circle is going to make for a lot more work . . .
All I can say for sure is, what I thought would be a good trade off (wide carbon rim, 800g tires on a 160/170 Orbea Rallon) is just not doing it . . . If you think you've found a happy medium, would you share?
  • 1 0
 Good video. Yes - all about the context. And while my Stumpy Evo hangs on the wall gathering dust becasue I have no proper mountains where I live, I'm wondering if I should do a Quinney and finally put a Pike on my Epic Evo. The rest of the bike doesn't fall apart from my local trail faffing, but the SID does not seem to enjoy it as much as I do.
  • 1 0
 A bit of a two edged sword this. Unsprung mass should make the suspension work better. Or could you just tune that away with some more compression damping? I have never tried going full weight weenie as I dont like walking home from the woods with the bike piled up in my fanny pack.

On my bikes i usually dont give a shit about the weight of the bike - but I do care a bit about the weight of the rims and tyres.
My typical go to wheels are around 1800g +/- and a DH tyre in the back and a DD in the front 2400g-ish. But my new bike came with the super heavy duty Hope Fortus 30 at 2450g and some 3000g of Michelin DH tyres = 1250g + grams of unsprung mass.... holy water melons!


As it is still winter here in Norway and we just recieved another 10cms of snow today - I havent had the chance to do much testing. I have only tried it once on a short part of a local trail and the initial impression was heavy as f*ck but insane grip and composure. It just tracked the ground even though said ground was icey and its fair share of lumpyness.
  • 2 1
 The fundamental flaw in the tyre argument is that you have to run higher tyre pressures to offset the ‘disadvantage’ of the lighter casing. This is only true if you can put your hand on heart and say you are riding hard and fast enough that the midweight casing isn’t strong enough to support you through the turns. Im going to hazard a guess that most riders aren’t going hard enough for that to be true
  • 1 0
 I ride a Michelin DH22 front and Butcher grid trail on the rear in my Spesh Enduro all year round. I´m quite light,never had too much problems with rear flats an a tire insert and trail casing is good for me.
But for the front tire I need&love a very solid tire, Michelin DH22 is to me the best tire no matter the conditions or trails. A DH tire in rear kills all the speed for me,not so much in the front.
  • 1 0
 Note that after the subject makes a one size fits all statement “Why Weight Doesn’t Matter” to get everyone all riled-up, the text shortly after reads, for “aggressive trail and enduro bikes”.

You don’t have to be a racer or challenge impossible combs to know that for any riding that involves a lot of pedaling (ex. not aggressive trail and enduro), weight will definitely matter as part of the experience.

I’m not riding a 34 pound hardtail that’s marketed as “relatively light” on the trails I ride anytime soon.
  • 1 0
 I found running a smaller chainring helps the perceived feel when climbing with the extra weight of DD/DH tires on my 17kg bike. Yes I’m not winning any races going uphill with the easier gear to spin, but at least I’m not gassed at the top to enjoy the DH.
  • 1 0
 "But I would argue, to many of us, its another marketing tool that merely attaches an arbitrary value to a bike. Yes of course it effects how well a bike climbs. But I would even content that often it’s not the defining feature. But because of the compromises we make because of weight, we give away so much performance. This obsession needs to go away and go away forever."

Can we just get this on loop, played to every marketing bozo in the bike industry, until their ears bleed??? Grams are not that important for the average rider. There is so much more cool stuff going on in the bike industry that is revolutionizing the sport and its environmental impact.. to still be focusing on how many paper clips you removed from the part for 10x the money. It makes zero difference!!
  • 1 0
 I watched the vid all the way through, and in general, I agree. I have never been a weight weenie. I enjoy my 34# 170/150 bike. Does everything I want. I am cool being occasionally “over biked”.
That said, the title is a little inaccurate. No one would say a 60# bike “doesn’t matter” or a 200# bike “doesn’t matter”. My takeaway from the generally spot-on Quinney is that a *super light bike* is an unnecessary endeavor. Or “Surprise! A bike in the mid-30s will consistently out-descend a 20# version on X type of trail”.
Lastly, I was waiting (weighting?) for Henry to refer to how many DH racers have been observed adhering lead weights to their frames to improve feel and handling. My experience with this is the half-dozen or so full power ebikes I have demo’d: there’s something positive to be said for the additional mass. I rather like it. I have found that I am descending at least as fast on my regular trails as I do on my Slash and I think it’s due to additional grip because of the greater mass.
  • 1 0
 I agree, you don't have the authority to disagree with me. Weight does matter. Enduro is one aspect of mountain biking. It alone does not define mountain biking. Even for enduro riding weight matters because you have to haul your a$$ up the hill!
  • 1 0
 It all depends.

For example, I had an Ibis Ripley for a long time and then eventually switched to a Ripmo. While I loved my Ripley - handling, nimbleness, pedal efficiency - it could've been a bit more supportive on descents. Now, my Ripmo weighs a bit more than 3 Lbs more than my Ripley did ( Ripley 28Lbs, Ripmo: 31 Lbs and change). With the Ripmo I essentially got all the mentioned riding qualities as the Ripley, but got the support on descents and also noticed it is easier to balance on techy sections such as rock gardens ( which I believe is due to the extra weight). So the extra weight in this example is a benefit, but it also depends where you ride.
  • 1 0
 Obviously weight does matter. But, you don't need a light bike to have fun. With e-bikes, weight is less impactful, but still a consideration. Does it make sense to spend a lot to remove a few pounds? With a xc bike, probably. With a +50lb ebike, not so much, eh.
  • 1 0
 "and I'm very lucky to start with something that was so light in the first place"

I think you (and most of us) would be better off on a bike that can made lighter _if_ wanted and _if_ it could be done while maintaining appropriate durability.

I would not feel lucky that my bike started light if I then destroyed the stock tires and wheels after just a handful of rides. And especially if those rides weren't maximized because marketing tried to shave 50 grams with a floppy (but yeah, probably strong enough) handlebar or something like that.
  • 1 0
 The biggest weight saving I’d notice is losing my beer belly.

I agree with the sentiment that I’d rather have my bike be a little more robust at the cost of it bring a little heavier.
As a fatty, I’m unlikely to notice any additional climbing performance from lightweight components, but will likely notice any compromised durability.

But that’s just me. I can also appreciate the lust for fancy parts too. I am also a tart and do love anything shiney and purple.
  • 1 0
 I am sorry @henryquinny but what you say around 6:25 about heavier wheels taking the edge off compression spikes is pure nonsense. DM me for a thorough explanation, I am not going to teach physics from my phone. Lower pressure can contribute to this but higher unsprung weight has the opposite effect.
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney that should have been, edit button doesn't show up on my phone
  • 1 0
 My old AL Patrol was a heavy tank, never actually weighed it but easily 17-18kg. Metal everything, DD tyres, coil shock etc, but it climbed pretty well with a 12 speed cassette, and descended very well, I couldn't come close to pushing it's capability on the descents.
  • 1 0
 Agreed. And mainly the reason I didn't think twice about cushcore front and back with dh tires to boot. Super supple smooth descending at speed. Playful too. Does require a slightly faster minimum speed to really come to life though.
  • 1 0
 Aside from Henry’s pomposity speech style need a dictionary/thesaurus real-time to handle to translate I was reminded of my short experiment _ 1x of taking my 7kg road bike gravel riding over my 29 ht - disaster roadie of course (w) rong geometry and super skinny tyres and ass in air etc but the lack of weight - no planting on the downs and a serious lack of traction up hill
Then again another experiment with my Nicolai Nucleon with gearbox - 26 and just before long slack etc become the thing - it’s a boat anchor and with good legs it will go up all but the steepest and the weight distribution was/is a joy on the descents - not so good lifting it over stiles (a UK thing)
  • 1 0
 I guess it comes all down to what type of riding your after.

If your focused on descending with high speed, and thats what 170mm+ bikes are made for usually, then I would agree on most parts.

If your more in the trail riding+ category - loads of uphills with descends ranging from very technical to pretty fast at times, then I'd say it depends. Usually you'e going for a 150mm bike to have a liveier / poppy / nimble bike. A coil is not necessarely benefitial here.
As you usually would do longer distances then on an enduro bike a more robust cassette might even make more sence here but to be honest - if money is not the biggest consern, I don't see a need for it on a non-e-bike.
Heavier frame - also more a price issue.

Solid tires - anytime. Inserts, depending on rider weight - super gravity / DD are just fine for this category and a 75kg rider.
  • 1 0
 I'm pretty certain you guys mostly ride shuttle/lift to be ok riding DH casings and long travel coiled rear ends. Sure if you have your fix riding "motorized" then i guess you can live don't riding that much elevation for your few muscular rides.
Theres also a case for top enduro athlete/pros of some kind. If your be all end all is your time to go down a hill i bet you can put the extra effort to push those DH casings to the top.
For the average rider that climbs his way to the top ridiculous tires are ridiculous. I guess between a nice XC rig like a Spark that goes down fine and a big 17kg DH cased tire the time to go up a hill is easily 50% more. The pain is on another level too. On the trail were i live truth is ebike are more common than muscular bike and there is a good reason for that. Riding MTBs uphill is already long and hard, for most they don't need to be ridiculously harder to go up.
  • 1 0
 I have to say, as I've learned to love climbing and where it takes me, and then fighting light weight everything always breaking and burping, and needing adjustments and generally bumming me out (except on the climbs? I could barely notice after my fitness caught up- and lungs) I much prefer, personally and this is pretty personal huh? I much prefer how the reliable parts work for long rides with lots of climbing. and yes, that's usually lots of descending or at least trying to maximize my decending, so performance is more important to me personally than weight. my big snowboards are heavy and tough and ride great. my dirt bike is heavy and tough and rides great and my SPIRE is heavy and tough and rides great. I do keep a hardtail around for sleazy tire sketchy shit when I want to mix it up. BIKES rule partly because we can al build them os uniquely perfect for what we each want and expect and like and hope and then, here is the best part, just keep tweaking out on all the little details to make them just right. IMHO. bikes rule and Henry is just the frosting on my Kaz donut.
  • 1 0
 I totally agree with manufacturers speccing the lightest tyres they can. Nothing is going to put someone off buying a bike if it is sluggish on the car park test. If someone wants to swap out the tyres to heavier lumps then great but that wouldn't be my choice. I will happily sacrifice grip for lower rolling resistance on all of my bikes. Getting an opinion from a racer on tyre choice is pointless for the vast majority of us none-racers. Sorry!
  • 1 0
 (as I respond to this - statement by statement - as much as possible)

- Using the word 'modern' to describe a trend, In No Way Validates said trend... Just because it's 'modern' Does NOT Make something right - & you cannot manipulate me into accepting something, just because said something is, 'modern'... >.> #STOP
- Who's opinion & general choices do you think matter? People who are PERCEIVED to be 'agonising' about how many grams of protein they consume through their Nutritional Awareness? Or the ones mistaking them as being in agony whilst being only concerned with the colour of their nutritionally challenged Oreos? (& I'll link my Anti Indifference\"You Don't Care?" post at the end to show you how much Careless People Matter...) >.>
- The 'standard' of being light applies to & benefits all forms of mountain biking... A bike's weight influences more than just it's efficiency at climbing... So YES - Enduro & Trail bikes should adhere to the as light as possible 'standard'...
- Weight is a ''Marketing Tool"? What - bike manufacturers use weight to get sales? Why do YOU make these videos(& useless videos like 'hey everyone, this is my bike') - not to get paid? (because You're required to get a certain number of content out per week - I saw the job description last year) What's your point?
- As previously stated, weight has an effect on more than just climbing... Weight influences BIKE CONTROL whilst at speed... Weight influences BIKE HANDLING when dealing with OBSTACLES(bunny\etc hop anyone?)... Weight also influences BIKE COST - more weight means MORE MATERIAL & MORE MACHINING... Weight can even mean MORE DANGER\INJURY, as, if you were to crash, a heavier bike would be more likely to injure you(by falling on you & or twisting you)... But I'm CERTAIN that YOU'LL mistake the Thougthfullness, Determination, Etc, which Motivates Me To Avoid the Negatives Whilst Ensuring The Positives Of The Previous Sentences Of This Paragraph As Me Being......'obsessive', right?
- Will thoughtfully seeking & hence having a lighter bike automatically yield a bike with less performance? Are you serious? & therefore carelessly buying a heavy bike automatically yields an awesome bike right? Light equals inferior, heavy is superior - right? #SaysTheCarelessOreoEater
- Lower weight tyres DO perform better... As long as you're not abusing them(with too low a tyre pressure)that is... #TyreABUSEisREAL & a tyre's rebound is IRRELEVANT - tyres are NOT meant to do the work of a bike's suspension(See? Tyre Abuse)... & another ANNOYING trend is 'modern mountain biking' - I used the word 'modern', so it's automatically 'hip' & everyone should fall in line or be shamed & treated like an outcast - is non pro riders being brainwashed into thinking that they need to\should be speeding(RACING)through roots & rocks & ruff sections when they should NOT(same is meant to challenge the pros, who will be covered if they crash in such conditions)... In any case, there are three basic things which make a MTB tyre heavier(two of which are unnecessary) - Tyre size, Tyre compound & Tyre reinforcement - where only Tyre Compound is necessary, as tyre sizes above 26'' aren't necessary & tyre reinforcement only seems necessary, because it counters(makes up for - like inserts)tyre abuse by low pressure usage...
- Bike manufacturers are NOT embracing heavier parts because 'heavier equals better performance'(the faster something wears the more sales they make) - they embrace heavier because it's easier to make something heavy perform, than it is to make something light perform in similar fashion... In fact - Oreo Eater - the topic of heavy vs light has nothing to do with performance......but more to do with durability - & manufacturers attempt to force\manipulate riders into purchasing what they want them to purchase, because convincing the public to buy specific sizes etc saves, them, money... Do you really believe that if you replace a dirt bike's engine & gearbox with a MTB crank\chainring etc & pedal it, that it will automatically perform better......Just Because It's Parts Are Heavier?
- In the end, I Say Try To Get A Bike As Light As Possible - where only Brake Rotors, Chains, Chainrings, Cassettes etc minimal exceptions can be made(& don't EVER let manufacturers dictate what you buy - you do not exist to buy their products, THEY EXIST TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE PRODUCTS YOU WANT) - & I'm the sort of guy who has made sure to prevent himself from getting a cold in about 6 years(sample my intelligence via the link)... So would you listen to me, or the Careless Content Creating Oreo eater? >.>
- "You Don't What?" here: www.tumblr.com/pdxoooinquiry/174458273133/you-dont-what-you-dont-matter?source=share
  • 1 0
 I never weighed my bike, but a dreadnought with coil, FR541 rims, inserts and TRP brakes is definitely way more than 16 kilos. I don´t care, uphill is never fun, no matter if you ride a 11 kilo CX or a 16+ kilo enduro.
  • 4 3
 What about unsprung mass? Overall handling of any heavier bike?
Why should I ride heavy shitty bike, when I can ride longer with less body fattigue on lighter biker?

Wtf, pinkbike?!
  • 2 1
 watch video, not the point being made
  • 5 0
 Excellent Stig reference
  • 1 0
 “When we put keeping the weight of our bikes down, so high up in the list of our priorities, we pursue low weight, but what we end up with is low performance”

Yeah, that and water bottles.
  • 2 2
 Try riding twice a week max and weight will quickly start to matter. That semi-pro fitness really makes a difference when lugging that extra few Kilos uphill. That being said, props for the Top Gear reference though. A Pinkbike Stig could be good fun.
  • 3 0
 What a great video. Has Henry, Beer, non weight weenie bikes, and a Mastodon reference. Pure cinema perfection.
  • 1 0
 Some of us are a bit more weight tolerant than others. I have a reasonably high w/kg and decent upper body. The extra weight doesn't bother me.

My tiny GF on the other hand, totally different story.
  • 1 0
 I just came here to brag about my expensive multiple overlapping bikes and overwrought ways (also very expensive!) to get them to the trailhead. Side note: why am i always riding alone?
  • 3 0
 Best video on mountain biking I’ve seen in ages. Brilliant presentation and well scripted. Great work!
  • 2 0
 Great content Henry- you're turning into a real Bard of the Woods. But a DHF? Try a DHRII for those conditions- no drift zone and phenomenal braking. :-)
  • 2 1
 Get some 35 pound kettle bells. Pick them up a few Times everyday! Your bike will feel so much lighter. Not even fancy moves, just pick them up and carry them around a little.
  • 4 0
 Food for thought Henry great article Keep em coming Cheers
  • 4 0
 Loved the video, and I agree with the argument. Thanks!
  • 1 0
 Geometry changed everything and now, I think it all depends on the size and strength of the rider. I'm 208, workout regularly and I climb the Front Range with a 170 enduro bike without a problem.
  • 1 1
 While I don't think weight is the most important thing then it does matter to some degree (a rough estimate would be weight lost relative to total system weight which is rider+bike, so 1kg less in a previously 100kg system would make you 1% faster). While I think he makes overall some okay points, then I do think that he skips over sprung and unsprung weight and how they affect your suspension performance. Get a heavy frame and coil shock, but get lighter wheels, tires (they still need to make sense for your area) and cassette, this way you get some stability and better suspension performance and be realistic about how much grip you actually need, because too grippy tires will just slow you down on the uphill and downhill.
  • 1 1
 Weight absolutely matters. Try telling an xc guy to carry another 3kg on their bike and they will tell you where to go. Ebikers are always saying how good the extra weight is so that matters too. Power to weight in vehicles applies here too if you pedal your bike around. The weight for sure matters because you just made a 15 video about it. Wether that extra weight is a burden or an advantage depends on the application but don't tell me weight doesn't matter please.
  • 1 0
 Bike weight is only part of the overall weight of the rider+gear+bike. At a given power output, a couple of pounds (a kilo) of weight doesn't make a big difference. So......weight matters a little.
  • 1 0
 Need to start a new category called Upduro. Fastest growing category I’ve seen. Consists of riders on overbiked, heavy, super-expensive downhill oriented bikes to ride single track.
  • 2 0
 I think that everybody love a 12.8 kg Trail bike, not saying that this is a cheap weight to reach but come on who prefer the same bike but heavier?
  • 1 0
 Article: Nuanced explanation of why for some people, the weight isn't so critical
Forum: mostly over simplified, bumbling about how that take is wrong because they don't fall into the category that the author was addressing
  • 2 0
 I’d just like to applaud the reference to one my all time favorite metal bands: Mastodon
  • 7 4
 Now THIS is a video we can accept autoplay on.
  • 4 0
 I just see an ad, where is the video?
  • 6 7
 Who still obsesses about weight that's riding a trail or enduro bike? I thought people got over that a while ago.

Also, at a certain point, too much weight is less fun going downhill. My 35lbs enduro bike is more fun than my 55lbs ebike downhill.
  • 3 1
 Not to mention that a heavier bike is more composed over rougher terrain...
  • 6 0
 Late night jobby. I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids.
  • 8 0
 I dialled 0800-BRIAN-PARK and he fixed it for me.
  • 1 0
 Wait/weight. Waiting to weight with Aenomoly. Paid that crew in December and still weighting. Bike and wallet are both too light. Come on you guys, spend something on production not marketing.
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney:
I believe your might have been going for “you meddling kids!”
SNL skit shows the whole Mystery Inc crew being charged with multiple counts of meddling.. And a dog.
  • 2 0
 I don't mind heavier non-rotating mass, but I much prefer a lighter rotating mass.
  • 2 2
 Weight always matters. As light as possible, as strong as necessary. You will run into a point of diminishing returns then, either your finances or competition rules will tell you when you have to stop.
  • 2 3
 Sorry, but weight absolutely matters unless you're shuttling. You have to climb up first to go down! Pinkbike, make a Poll and ask the internet, "Does weight matter? If you had your choice, would you prefer a 29lb or 35lb (insert whatever numbers you prefer) weight on your bike of choice."
  • 2 1
 the guys having to lift their heavy E Bikes onto the back of the shuttle in my area would disagree with the headline..........poor things......
  • 2 0
 Weight doesn't matter when 90% of modern mountain bikers are too soft to pedal uphill.
  • 3 1
 IMO trail bikes 13-14kg, enduro I think around 14.5-15.5 is the sweet spot, don’t ride DH bikes so couldn’t comment.
  • 1 1
 Heavy bike means more work. More work makes you loose more weight and you can ad more weight to your bike and so on. Or just ride what you got, and loose overall ride weight without changing to lighter bikeparts...
  • 2 0
 There comes a day in every rider's life where they say, "You know, I actually want my bike to be as heavy as possible."
  • 2 1
 Weight matters everywhere in my opinion. A heavy bike wears me out a lot more with tighter trails descending, and popping the bike. I’m fairly strong in the gym as well.
  • 1 0
 Or ya know, don't be a hack and just plow over everything....learn to actually ride smoother and control the bike instead of just plowing....or not.
  • 3 0
 Another great video Henry.
  • 1 0
 With linkglide being hard to get for a while I was curious how it would turn it out. I'm eager to read a long term test and review over 2000kms.
  • 3 0
 Henry calls it a smoke machine We know it as Mike Levy
  • 1 0
 Not surprising Matt came out, but Levy would have been funnier Big Grin
  • 3 3
 More bullshit pushed on the media I return for purchasing ad space. The weight doesn't matter let companies charge a premium for shitty heavy carbon frames with fewer warranties.
  • 1 0
 Alloy>Carbon
Steel>Carbon

I'd rather have a heavier metal bike that ages well than a lighter carbon bike that I need to tape up.
  • 1 0
 nothing particular,i just don't have so much attention on the weight, this is part of the sport itself. besides, e-bike will never be my choice, sucks.
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney @brianpark I really like these opinion articles, they are great - keep them coming. We need more of these types of articles on PB!
  • 1 0
 Isn’t the goal to cut any unnecessary weight… unfortunately this seems to cost a lot unless you go on a diet. I lost 15 pounds and really noticed the difference
  • 1 0
 So maybe do some testing on similar bikes? Generally it doesn't matter IF you don't hike a bike or carry a bike on your back
  • 2 0
 spot on. ride a bike that gives you performance/smiles over anything else
  • 1 0
 I build my bikes the same every time. DD tyres, cushcore front and back. It's weighty but it goes.
  • 2 0
 @solf:
The best part of that, is that it typically keeps going and doesn’t leave you hung out.
  • 1 0
 @jgottya1: that's the way. I carry no pump or plugs on a standard ride due to the set up. Ride hard buddy.
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney This isn't the first time you've made a Mastodon joke is it? Love it.
  • 2 0
 White whale, holy grail.
  • 1 0
 13:30 I see you also have the problem with the One Up pump deciding to come loose.
  • 3 1
 That TR Spire is gorgeous
  • 2 4
 These silly discussions. Of course weight matters. Maybe not half a Kg, but anybody can tell the difference when the gap starts to be counted in kilograms. Big tires? Again? We were there just a few years ago with the infamous 2.8.
  • 3 1
 Wait til you turn 50 and you'll see that weight does matter indeed. Wink
  • 3 1
 Henry is such a phenomenal presenter. Great job on this one
  • 2 0
 "till your friends catch you riding one"
  • 2 0
 I was dying at the subheading of this video. PB knows comedy.
  • 2 0
 keep posting the 99 gram stems and handlebars.....
  • 2 0
 You can get Oreo’s in different colours? Say it ain’t so Henry.
  • 2 0
 Nice camera work, pretty country in those parts.
  • 2 0
 im waiting intently for that linkglide review!!!
  • 2 1
 Since weight doesn't matter, let me do you a favor and take that crankset off your hands.
  • 1 0
 DJ, XC comp aside, if you're not running "DH spec" tyres are you even Mountain biking?
  • 3 1
 It's getting difficult to recognise whats only an add and what's a content
  • 1 0
 I mean we've seen all the analysis about a racers payments, conditions of our sport, future predictions, surveys of thousands riders asking hundreds questions, tips for sci-donut books. We really come here to satisfy our fetish for bikes and to seek what to buy next. It's like a pre-warm before buy for most. No need to spend an ad time on us.
What's the percentage of "new stuff sell" vs "bikes are Fun, watch this" is, do you have the numbers?
You know what? Promise me no auto-play and no adds before your own content and I'm fine to pay.

Anyway, I wish I could afford my own Henry!
  • 1 0
 A story about a new steel bike then a story about bike weight not mattering cleaver
  • 1 0
 my 42lb 2001 Schwinn Straight 8 jumps just as easy as my 31lb 2016 Canfield Balance. Both with close to the same geo
  • 1 1
 Ride a relatively light yet capable trail bike as a person who values the whole ride, not just the descents and then tell me worthy doesn’t matter.
  • 1 0
 Funny the amount of people disagreeing with him about climbing on a heavier bike….
  • 1 1
 The weight isn't a huge factor, but I appreciate my carbon Optic ... vs an alum Transition Spire. The C2 (former) feels a bit more lively.
  • 2 0
 I have a heavier crankset if you want to swap those eeWings
  • 3 1
 Gotta hand it to Henry, his content is always thought provoking.
  • 1 0
 Wow @henryquinney you really went out on a limb with this bold take on bike weight, well done
  • 3 0
 Holy blah
  • 1 0
 So is this an industry sponsored article to normalize the price weight ratio. Some brands are getting heavier and pricier.
  • 1 0
 After 20miles and 3000ft of climbing, you start to appreciate a lighter bike
  • 1 0
 150 word essay was the most you could squeeze out trying to defend this idea.
  • 2 0
 Disappointing lack of below threshold threads
  • 1 0
 You’re all having fun wrong! Pay me and I’ll show you the right way to do it!
  • 1 0
 let me see.. matt beer is pinkbike version of stig??! hahahaha he deserves a white helmet!
  • 1 0
 Weight definitely matters both up and down. I think the real argument here is pick the right tool for the job.
  • 1 2
 Just get that Alloy frame from Transition or better from Santa Cruz, those will take good care of adding more than a little weight.
  • 1 0
 Give me the nicest #50 enduro bike and I will hate it.
  • 2 1
 splish splash your opinion is triangular mitochondriosis
  • 3 2
 Except for XC racing and well all racing
  • 1 0
 Whoa, that video was heavy
  • 2 1
 I like your Spire. Good component choices. Bet it rides like a dream.
  • 4 3
 Weight absolutely matters. Especially if youre a marathon type racer.
  • 1 0
 Why is the cassette smoking?
  • 2 1
 Weight matters, just can't break
  • 2 1
 My opinion too. As long as it functions as good overall, and is reliable, I'm all for lighter weight.
  • 1 0
 and what about those eewing's?
  • 1 1
 Ehhh. My tcx with nanos flys uphill. Its lighter, less draggy than my top fuel. Going down? Sure heavy is ok.
  • 4 3
 Weight actualy does matter.
  • 1 0
 I just love the difference between youtube an pinkbike comments.
  • 1 2
 All weight is not equal

Lighter wheels (including tyres) make a bike more fun

Whether it's to do with unsprung or rotating weight, I have no idea
  • 1 0
 That’s what I like about opinions
  • 1 1
 Great, another video to not watch. Pretty worthless "printed" portion. Outside clickbait?!
  • 1 0
 what was the sticky note bit about?
  • 1 0
 Introducing Pinkbike "Stig" exclusively here on Top Cassette
  • 1 0
 I love this, more Henry videos please!
  • 1 0
 What does matter? Where are the Friday Fails!!!!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 i think a heavier bike makes you stronger, and a better rider.
  • 2 1
 Oh here we go
  • 1 0
 Amen! Great Vid!
  • 3 3
 The author is need of a physics lesson or two.
  • 1 0
 beer/hotbox
  • 8 9
 That's it?....... Seven sentences?
  • 9 0
 I thought that paragraphs were missing too. How could Quinney write such a meagre feature?

There’s actually a video. But when you open this story, the video starts auto-playing and says “Loading Ad”. So you immediately pause it and scroll down to read the text.
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