As a long-term flat pedal rider, I just haven't had any curiosity to ride clips for a very very long time. That said, once the bug bit, it's been something I've had to dedicate some time to setting up. The setup I've landed on is not without its foibles, though, and it makes the most of the large amount of adjustment on Crankbrothers' Mallet E pedals.
Henry QuinneyPosition: Tech Editor & Kettle Supervisor
Clips/Flats Time Split: 50/50
Preferred shoe style: Gravity/DH
Chosen Pedal: Crankbrothers Mallet E
I used to ride Shimano SPDs, prior to my flat pedal binge, so unclipping isn't so much of a concern. Rather, just finding something that gave me the attributes I wanted was. The things that I didn't like when riding a clipless system was the small contact patch and lack of grip to resist twisting forces, unclipping into the bike as I drove my inside foot towards the bike, and a loose vague feeling - where I couldn't be sure where the mechanism would release me. The problem I've had is that I've found Shimano's pedals couldn't give me the traction and Crankbrothers' pedals couldn't give me the distinctive in-out feeling. So, I ended up doing lots of trial and error and this is the setup I feel best balances these needs.
Starting with the pedals, I run a set of Mallet E's with all the pins wound in. I've always disliked the feeling of being clipped in and the pins dragging across the rubber of the shoe. I know that for some it's the vital way to get traction on the pedal, but for me it just feels like a very inelegant solution. Instead, I've decided to run a mix-match of traction pads, with the thicker 2mm option installed on the outside. I really feel like this gives me just the level of support that I'm after. 2mm on both sides make the entry too difficult, whereas 1mm all round isn't enough traction, and I feel like having the outer edge on the outside really helps me replicate the feeling of flat pedals - where you can really load the pedal on the exit of turns or really push out if you want to square off a turn. I could probably file them down to 1.5mm and have them equal but I haven't really felt a need. Ergonomically, the 1mm difference feels fine, although who's to say it isn't doing something catastrophic to my knees? Only time will tell.
In the pedals, I also run the longer axles to give me clearance to the crank. Again, this makes unclipping easier for me.
I've found my preferred cleats are the standard gold Premium 6-degree float cleats - and I run them on their correct side in the 15-degree release setting. If you run them inverse of their denoted side, you can increase the release setting to 20-degrees. Here is where another peculiarity creeps in - I have them pointing towards my big toe. This has been a huge part for me and really helps me get the flat-pedal feeling I was after. I still pedal straight, obviously, but my outer release is almost instantaneous and it's near impossible for me to clip in as I drive my heels toward the bike. This, combined with the traction pads, gives me loads of grip and support on the pedal without having any issue clipping out or getting back in. It also staves off unwanted uncoupling through turns.
I don't run a spacer underneath the cleat on my Shimano GR901 clipless shoes, and love the support and platform they offer.
Mike Levy - HT Leopard M1I've spent about half my riding life on platform pedals, much of it with an inside foot hanging off, possibly with the rear brake locked, and definitely wearing a shit-eating grin. I used them for years of wheelie-dropping off the roofs of outhouses with roll-ins roughly zero feet long and only to flat landings, and they were on my bike for week-long cross-country races with over 30,000-feet of climbing and all the cramping.
Mike LevyPosition: Tech Editor; authority on lizard people
Clips/Flats Time Split: 99/1 (in the last ten years)
Preferred shoe style: stiff and light
Chosen Pedal: HT Leopard M1
Jump forward a decade and now all I'm looking for is the exact opposite - a pedal that can essentially lock my feet into place so strongly that I need to slide out of my shoes and leave them attached to the bike when I have to stop to pee.
For that, I've used HT's pint-sized Leopard M1 pedals for the last six or seven years because their adjustable entry/exit tension can be set absurdly high. For some reason, likely terrible form and a bunch of annoying ankle injuries, I can't keep myself from rotating my feet over the pedals through corners or while messing around, and no other system is able to keep me from accidentally unclipping at least a few times during every ride. Yes, I've tried almost everything else. Yes, I realize this is a 'me' problem and not an everyone problem. Yes, I'm tired of their tiny RC car bearings wearing out every twenty minutes and breaking one every twenty rides (including at the latest Field Test). And yes, I do walk down the road to buy three sets at a time from my local bike shop.
I also might be the only editor here using pedals without some sort of Trail Bike Approved-platform for me to stand on when I'm not clipped in but, as someone who's had some bad crashes from catching a pedal on rocks and roots, I've always had bit of a dumb opinion about that. And since you asked about it, pedal strikes are always rider error, but the much smaller body of the M1s gives me a bit more room for those errors. What about when it gets sketchy and I just need a set of TBA pedals to stand on? Don't worry, they're too tight for me to unclip, even if I wanted to, and I like the commitment that entails.
As for cleats, I use the normal ones and have moved them back from their original 'I raced cross-country in the 90s' at the very front of the slots to nearly the very back of them. One downside of not using a pedal with a platform is more casual-looking shoes with flexible soles don't provide enough support; they bend over the tiny pedal body, so I usually prefer to wear something a bit stiffer and sportier for that reason. And because rotating weight, but that's another dumb opinion...
But for what I need from a set of pedals, which is for them to hold onto my feet like I stepped into a set of damn bear traps, the security the HTs offer far outweighs the reliability they don't. Now I just need to stop peeing on my socks.
Matt Beer - Crankbrothers Mallet DHGrowing up as a die-hard flat pedal rider, I found the transition to clipless more natural with the Crankbrothers Mallet DH model. Unlike SPD systems, the Mallet’s design can lock the cleat into the mechanism from either direction; place your foot on the pedal platform and wiggle the shoe from in front of or behind the spring to clip in. That’s because the design of the mechanism can articulate 360-degrees around the axle, independently of the pedal body and “roll” with the cleat, which is where the Eggbeater system gets its name from.
Matt BeerPosition: Tech Editor & allergy kid
Clips/Flats Time Split: 80/20
Preferred shoe style: Gravity/DH
Chosen Pedal: Crankbrothers Mallet DH
I also believe this makes better use of the traction pins, since the shoe can pivot onto the grippy screws and then “unweight” from the pedal body. Other clipless pedals that have the spring fixed to the platform rely on the sole flexing to grip the pins, which might make twisting your foot to release more likely to catch the pins. The float on the Crankbrother system also has an even spring tension that I find to be more natural, whereas the SPDs have a “looser” feel that quickly ramps up before releasing.
As for the shoe to pedal interface, that can vary depending on the depth of the cleat mounting area. On these Bontrager Rally shoes and other Five Ten models, I use the plastic spacer provided, but on the Fizik Artica winter shoes, the sole is not as recessed into the rubber grip under the shoe, so I leave that out in that case. I’d like to see the grub screws on the Mallets accessible from the back of the pedal body because once they are damaged, getting a 2mm Allen key in there is nearly impossible. Once the pins are dialled in, I rarely unexpectedly unclip, as long as the cleats aren’t worn down to nubs.
I prefer to have the cleat behind the ball of my foot to take pressure off of my calves and let the larger leg muscles, similar to how you might perform a squat. I also like to move the cleats as far inboard as possible to widen my stance across the bike. I’ve played with angling the cleats, like Henry, and although I do ride somewhat duck-footed, I found that it’s more natural to enter the clip straight on and therefore leave them aligned with the length of the shoe.
Pedals have a hard life, often subjected to submersion and blows to rocks. A little maintenance once in a while goes a long way. The Mallets may not last as long as some other sealed pedals, but the cartridge bearings are easy to replace, don’t require special tools to work on, or unthread themselves. I’m open to trying new styles of clipless pedals, but so far the Mallet’s have been the easiest and most natural for me to get along with.
Mike Kazimer - Shimano XTWhen the moon is full and the night is clear I grab my tools and head out into the woods. There, by the light of a roaring fire I set to work on my clipless pedal set up. I start by heating up each cleat until it's glowing red, and then I forge it into an entirely new shape that was inspired by the construction secrets of the Egyptian pyramids and Stonehenge. Next, it's time for positioning those custom cleats, which requires two calipers, a strand of silk, and an eagle feather....
Mike KazimerPosition: Managing Tech Editor, nap aficionado
Clips/Flats Time Split: 60/40
Preferred Shoe Style: Comfortable
Chosen Pedal: Shimano XT
Nah, just kidding. I actually don't spend
too much time obsessing over my cleat or pedal setup. I test so many different shoe and pedal combinations over the course of a year that I'd drive myself mad if I worried about achieving the absolute best, totally correct cleat position every single time.
Speaking of shoes, my current favorites are
Crankbrothers Mallet BOA (it turns out that Crankbrothers shoes with Shimano pedals is a great combo). I also get along well with pretty much all of Shimano's offerings; I had to reluctantly retire a pair of AM7's the other day, and I'm now testing the
new AM9 shoes. The shoes pictured here are the
Five Ten Trailcross Clip, which I'm also in the process of reviewing. They're light and quick drying, but so far they're not quite as comfy as the Mallet Boa or the AM9. I also still haven't been able to shake the feeling that I'm wearing a pair of New Balance sneakers every time I put them on.
I typically put my cleats in the upper mounting holes, and then slide the carrier all the way rearward. This puts the pedal axle slightly behind the ball of my foot for what I'd consider to be a fairly neutral position. Shimano's XT pedals are what I use when I'm not testing something else – the super predictable entry and exit is what keeps me coming back to them. They're also incredibly durable. I can't remember how long I've had the PD-8020 pedals pictured here, but they're still spinning smoothly, and when they do need fresh grease that procedure only takes a few minutes.
I have several pairs of Shimano pedals kicking around so that I don't need to keep swapping one set between different bikes, but no matter the model they all feel the same once I'm clipped in. I set the spring tension in the middle of the range, and usually don't need to touch it after that. I typically don't twist my feet too much when I'm riding, so I don't need a crazy high amount of tension to keep from unclipping.
Matt Wragg - Shimano XT For the first 15 years or so of my riding life I had never even thought about trying anything other than a flat pedal. After moving to the South of France in 2013 I started doing more long distance rides and thought I should see what the fuss was about. Mavic had given me some shoes at a launch and I bought a pair of Shimano XT pedals. I've run them ever since. Ok, not the same pair of pedals, but when it came time to change bike, shoe or pedal, I bought the same thing again. It worked, it kept working and felt decent. This particular pair are not from the current generation of XT, but the one prior - I was running the newer ones before this, but even XTs can only survive so much pedal vs boulder action. I grabbed these from the spares box maybe 9 months ago and forgot about them until I came to write this. They are currently paired to these Shimano AM7 shoes, which seem appropriate to me as they too are solid and no nonsense (although I wish the wide sizes were available for more models, as the standards are a touch long for me).
I have become very stuck in my ways. A couple of years ago my wife was sponsored by Crank Brothers, so we had a spare set I could have tried, but the embarrassing truth is that I did not want to go through the setup and learning phase. Worse than that, I tried flats on my trail bike a couple of winters ago and it felt less fun than I remembered.
Matt WraggPosition: Editor-at-Large
Clips/Flats Time Split: 95/5
Preferred shoe style: Gravity/DH
Chosen Pedal: Shimano XT
I have never spent much time thinking about my setup. In fact, I usually leave the tension adjust in the factory setting. When I first got on SPDs, I remember setting the cleat so it feels like I am driving from the ball of my foot as it felt most natural, which seems to be fairly far forwards compared to most people. Then I angled the cleats in a bit as I have wonky legs, running them with Shimano shoes, I have never felt the need to space the cleat out vertically. Since then every time I get a new set of shoes or cleats, I grab the old ones and try and replicate it as closely as I can. There was a brief period a few years ago when I tried a different brand of shoe and accidentally set the cleat too far forwards, so every time I pulled up the extra leverage unclipped me, but beyond that this setup is what I think all bike parts should aspire to - fit and forget.
Seb Stott - Crankbrothers Mallet DHI learned to ride on flat pedals for many years but after changing to clips about ten years ago, I haven't looked back. I've given them a go a few times since, but I just can't stand my foot being in slightly the wrong place, and I also like how a clipless pedal allows my foot to "float" (rotate a few degrees relative to the pedal); this allows my knee to self-align throughout the pedal stroke which I find gives me fewer knee problems.
Seb Stott
Position: Tech Editor, UK
Clips/Flats Time Split: 99% clips
Preferred shoe style: Speciailzed 2FO Cliplite
Chosen Pedal: Crank Brothers Mallet DH / Mallet E
I've tried most of the major clipless pedal brands but my firm favourite is Crankbrothers. I like the large range of free float when moving around on the bike and for pedalling, the mud-shedding mechanism, the ease of clipping in both forwards and backwards and the large platform which makes it easier to ride out a section unclipped after dabbing.
The setup is finicky though. Even with Crankbrothers' own shoes you'll either have to wind the pins all the way in or add an extra cleat spacer to make engaging the pedal easier. I prefer the cleat spacer approach as it means there's more grip when riding unclipped, plus I have more pairs of pedals than shoes so its easier to add a spacer than to wind in the pins on multiple pairs of pedals. I point the front of the cleat a few degrees inboard (towards the big toe) in order to make them unclip slightly sooner. Otherwise, the shoe can hit the crank before unclipping.
I set the cleats all the way back and I only ride with Crankbrothers' Mallet DH shoe or the Specialized's 2FO Clip / Cliplite as they allow the cleat to go far enough back for my preference. The 2FO Cliplite is my favourite as it has a rare combination of stiffness and lightness typical of a trail shoe with a rearward cleat slot usually reserved for DH shoes. This puts your feet further in front of the saddle which in turn demands a steeper seat angle to compensate. By the way,
this Journal of Biomechanics study suggests fore-aft cleat position doesn't affect pedalling efficiency.
The reliability of the internals isn't great and a rebuild kit is pricey, which makes me wish I preferred Shimano. But sadly, I'm a sucker for the Mallet's free-floating mechanism.
James SmurthwaiteI'm a relative newcomer to the world of clipless and only took the plunge when I first bought a gravel bike in October 2019. Two and a half years later and and only one traffic light tumble later and I'm fully convinced that it's the superior pedal system. When I'm able to get my hands on a new mountain bike (yes, MTB journos are being affected by the supply chain issues too), I'll be investing in a more substantial set up but for now I'm running Adidas Velosambas with Shimano M530 pedals.
Honestly, the pedals I bought simply because they were on sale and in stock on Chain Reaction and until recently I'd been using a pair of Giro Rumble VR shoes with them. The shoes were fine for getting started but they are about as waterproof as a sponge with holes in it, which presented a fairly terminal issue for riding through a Scottish winter. So, I started looking for something else.
Truth be told, the Velosambas probably aren't it. I missed the first drop
back when they were released in March last year as they sold out within a week but Adidas did a run of vegan shoes more recently and I was able to snag a pair in this updated colourway. I've only had two rides on them so far but I'll start with the pros - they are simply the best looking cycling shoes ever, easily nicer than shoes with goofball meshes, random bits of velcro and arthitis-alleviating thick soles. They also are very nice to walk in, there's still a small amount of clicking and crunching underfoot but keeping a natural gait is easy.
The bad? Well, to dispel you of any illusion, this isn't a performance cycling shoe.
Adidas has since released more specialized kicks but this comparatively floppy shoe isn't great for longer rides. I'm going to keep them for riding around town and for casual rides but will have to try something more serious before I'm fully happy with my set up.
Alicia Leggett - Shimano XTI wish I had a good origin story for my love of Shimano SPDs - I once found myself at a bridge crossing with a wizard, who told me he would bestow upon me superhuman speed and style if I just chose to run the proper, the best, the most reliable clipless pedals of all time - but not only do I still lack that superhuman speed and style, I have only met a few wizards, and none have given me advice about my pedals.
Alicia LeggettPosition: News Editor? Tech Editor? At this point, who knows?
Clips/Flats Time Split: 85/15
Preferred shoe style: Nothing too complicated, please
Chosen Pedal: Shimano XT PD-M8120
I started running Shimano SPDs because when I was a teenager, a guy who sold me one of my first mountain bikes threw in a set of old ball-shaped SPDs just in case I ever wanted to try clipping in. When I started to enter my first cross country races, I decided clipping in was what the
real mountain bikers did, so I'd better figure it out. Aside from my semi-regular fling with a pair of flat pedals, I've been riding SPDs ever since. They work, they hold up against an astonishing amount of abuse, they offer what feels to me like just the right amount of float, and the tension is adjustable. I've just never seen any reason to switch over to anything else.
For roughly the last decade, I've used essentially the same pair of XT pedals as half the other editors in this article, both the older, more rounded style, and this newer 2020-and-onward version, which Shimano claims improves the shoe-pedal contact area (they feel pretty much the same to me, though) and allows more room for mud clearance (thankfully true, though the older version isn't too bad). The mid-sized platform gives just the right amount of extra support around the shoe, meaning that there isn't a need for ultra-stiff-soled shoes to compensate for a tiny contact patch and there's that extra bit of confidence that comes from knowing you'll still have somewhere to put your foot if, for whatever reason, you aren't clipped in when you'd really rather prefer to be. Also, the updated version looks so good. Look at those clean, angular lines!
I've been mainly riding in the Pacific Northwest these days, and these pedals, cleats, and shoes can handle the abuse that accompanies the constant wet and muddy conditions.
As for my shoes, I've been testing several different pairs lately, but my go-to over the last few months have been the Ride Concepts Hellion Clip. They come in a women's version, but it turns out my feet are too big for Ride Concepts' women's sizing, so I wear a men's pair. They're low-volume and suit my relatively narrow feet, the only weird fit things being that the laces and lace cover straps are extremely long. No problem there. They're quite comfortable and seem to dry quickly enough, as I put them on my boot dryer whenever I return from a wet ride and they're always dry by the next day or so when I go to put them on again.
I've also long been a big fan of Shimano's shoes, both clipless (SH-AM902) and flat (SH-GR901). Those are essentially the same shoe, aside from the clip/flat difference, so don't be like me and get them in the same exact color. You'll mix them up all the time. If you pay close attention to the latest Field Test videos, you'll also notice that I also often wear the Bontrager Rally shoes pictured above that Matt Beer is running.
I'm a little less scientific than some of the other tech editors when it comes to my cleat setup. I mount the cleats, depending on the shoes, pretty close to the center of the channel side-to-side and right behind the ball of my foot, pointing straight ahead. Since I haven't been using any shoes with overly aggressive tread, I don't use any shims or other adjustments. When I get on my bike, if something feels off, I'll move my cleat accordingly. If it feels fine, I roll with it. I don't overthink it, and I think I'm pretty adaptable when it comes to setup.
Speaking of being adaptable, I recently acquired several sets of TIME pedals and cleats. I also have a few new sets of shoes that I need to test sooner rather than later and I'm all out of SPD cleats, so I'm hyping myself up to try something different. Ask me about my pedal setup in a month or two and we'll see how things have changed.
Ryan Palmer - Shimano XTR XCDo you remember the Onza HO pedals? Those ones that used elastomers instead of springs to control cleat release tension. They came with four colors, clear, gray, blue and black; each a different durometer. The concept seemed cool at the time, and the pedals worked alright in the summertime, but as soon as the temp dropped, the elastomers would freeze up and lock you in. Those were my first clipless pedals. Things could only improve from there.
Ryan PalmerPosition: Beta Senior Tech Editor
Clips/Flats Time Split: I used to try running flats on DH bikes until I realized that they’re stupid on those, too.
Preferred shoe style: Trail bike shoes, but if they have shoelaces I won’t touch them.
Chosen Pedal: Shimano XTR XC
Next, I went to Ritchey Logics, mostly because they were red. I was like 12 years old, so color mattered more to me then. Who am I kidding, color still means way more to me than it should.
The Ritcheys lasted a couple years, until I got turned on to the Time A.T.A.C pedals for their superior tolerance to muddy conditions. That’s what I ran through college, until I got a job working for a team that was sponsored by Crankbrothers. I started running those pedals because, you know, they were free, but I was never a huge fan.
So when I had to start paying for pedals again in 2009, I decided to ''
finally'' hop on the SPD bandwagon. I’ve been happy ever since.
I generally run the Shimano XC-style pedals because I don’t feel like the pseudo platform on the Trail-style ones adds any function for me. The first couple generations added the tiniest amount of extra support for sideloading, but it was negligible in my opinion. The newest version does have much more of a platform, but I still don’t feel like it adds any benefit for me, because I run good shoes: Shimanos
If a company makes both pedals and shoes, I say match them up. It only makes sense that the shoe/pedal interface will be perfect, right? In my experience running Shimano/Shimano for shoes and pedals, the shoe lugs are always at the right height to allow float without dragging on the pedal body, and the cleats never require any special spacing or anything. When there’s too much friction preventing float, I get knee pain, so it’s something I’m always keenly aware of..
I also like the support of the shimano shoes. They range in stiffness from model to model, but they publish the stiffness number of each shoe so you can figure out what will work best for you. Most shoes are totally ambiguous when it comes to stiffness rating.
Shimano’s more walkable AM-series shoes have flex in the toes, but plenty of stiffness under the cleat where it counts, which I believe is why I’m happy with the platformless pedals. The platform is in the shoe rather than on the pedal. I realize this creates a different feel, but it’s one that I prefer.
Now, back to the pedals. I typically run XTR because I’m a total snob. I run them despite the fact that they’re not as good as the XT pedals, and never have been. Every set of XTR pedals I’ve ever owned have wandering spindle seals that allow a free pass for water and grime. They also develop play remarkably quickly, so I’m always rebuilding or re-adjusting the bearing play. It’s cool that you can adjust them like a cup and cone hub, but the frequency of service isn’t.
I’m not sure why Shimano hasn’t done any development on the guts of the XTR pedal for so long, because I’m sure they’re aware how imperfect they are. Perhaps because dummies like me keep using them.
If I were less pretentious, I’d run XT pedals since I know that in reality they’re a better, more robust product.
Sarah Moore - Shimano XTRI suppose I did learn to ride on flat pedals as a little kid, but what I would consider my first "real" mountain bike, a hardtail Devinci Cactus, came with Shimano SPDs and so my first experiences with actually riding on trails were with clip pedals. Along with clip pedals, the Cactus also came with a pair of used clip shoes.
Sarah MoorePosition: Content Manager & Maple Syrup Connaisseur
Clips/Flats Time Split: 99.5% clips
Preferred shoe style: Trail/Enduro
Chosen Pedal: Shimano XTR
Unfortunately, the shoes were a size too big for me and I also didn't know that you could back the tension on your pedals off to make them easier to get out of, so a lot of my crashes in my first year mountain biking came on the uphills, where I would either tip over clipped in (ie: like Mike Levy likes to do) or pull my entire foot out of my shoe accidentally.
I started racing cross-country almost as soon as I learned how to mountain bike - "There aren't any girls racing, you'll do great" my coach said - so there was never any question that I would give up the efficiency on the climbs for being able to dab on the downhills. Eventually, I got shoes that fit (of the tap-dancing variety of course) and figured out how to back the tension off on the pedals, so the number of times I crashed climbing rapidly diminished, although I still managed to finish most every ride with a new bruise or two.
I never really gave flat pedals a fair chance until 2020, over 15 years after I got into mountain biking. I decided they would be safer to learn to wheelie on. While I enjoy flat pedals for wheelie practice and trips in the Chilcotins with lots of hike-a-biking, my day-to-day riding is done on a pair of Shimano SPDs. 15-year-old me would be appalled at the "heavy" cages on my pedals these days and shoes without a painfully stiff sole, but I like being comfortable and being able to smash my pedals and not worry about them.
I tried a lot of clip pedals for the
Trail MTB Pedals Buyer's Guide last year, but like many of the editors in this article, Shimano pedals are the ones I've spent the most time on in the past several years. When my trusty XT pedals got stolen alongside my bike in November, I decided that there was no reason to "save" the XTR pedals I'd received for the Buyer's Guide for some special occasion (I'm not even sure what I thought that might be) and so I installed them on my new Norco Sight.
I suppose I could have waited until I got new shoes, but I quite like my disintegrating Shimano AM9 shoes with the cleats in exactly the right position. They're starting to feel a bit like slippers but I've been procrastinating getting new shoes since I know I'll have to stop multiple times in the first ride and fiddle around to get the new cleats "just right". I like Shimano shoes since they allow me to run my cleats as far back as I like to. I'm not sure if my calves are really weak or need stretching, but I feel like I'm on my tippy-toes with some other shoes. Last time I got new shoes, I replaced them with exactly the same model since I knew that I'd be comfortable with the cleats centred and all the way back.
Every time I ride with my SPDs I miss the mud clearance, float, and click of the Times. Still the best, and now patent-free.
I was amazed nobody in the PB crew was riding them, but perhaps the ecosystem problem I faced has affected others as well. SPD's aren't very good- but they're good enough.
I was also very surprised that nobody at PB is on Time pedals.
I'm waiting to see what SRAM does to them now that they own them. I don't have high hopes since I've always found SRAM engineering to be sub-par.
Never had an issue getting Time cleats to fit with any shoes.
By far the best pedals on the market. Every now and then I convince someone to switch. They always like them. Most people look at me like I'm crazy and keep riding Crank Bros that are made of cheese and can't hold cleats in and Shimano's that the cleats are either too tight or too loose.
Oh well.
I'm tempted to bite the bullet & buy 6 pairs of XT's after this article... Otherwise no complaints about all my time pedals.
Now, it's interesting to note I have never tired spd, but instead rode Look back in the day. So going CB was certainly a leap but one I've been incredibly happy with. I get the float I like, super easy clipping (occasionally I clip in while resting my foot there in the parking lot) the large platform that the shoe is literally made for, and three easy release all while never coming out when I don't want to.
Oh wait! I did unclip mid corner at Sea Otter on downhill practice in a berm, but had not trouble getting my foot back onto the pedal and clipped just by sitting there. So one accidental unclip.
Why do I like that not everybody else uses them? Prolly because I'm a douchebag. I mean, I always ride alone, and nobody ever says anything to me about pedals either way, so it shouldn't matter.
At least, that was my perception as a grouchy 40+ year old who was clinging onto his ATACs forever.
I am also in my forties. I hope they will still be around for the next 45 years or be replaced by something at least as good so I can hope dying on my bike with a better system (to me) than the SPD.
Time pedals being out of patent explains why there are relatively new 3rd party sources for the cleats! My spouse rides Time, but I need to have pedal extenders, so pedals which ONLY use the 8mm allen wrench don't work for me.
Ive flipped between clips and flats for the last few years and feel super comfortable using both.
Id probably rather get the benefit of clips but my right foot turns outward a fair few degrees from being level with knee. (Probably from multiple breaks over the years!)
As much as I try I cant get a cleat to get my foot comfortable (pointing outward) without feeling like its twisting my knee . So Im resigned to flats where I can position perfectly.
Any helpful tips? Thanks fellas
SPDs just have that click...there is no question if you're in or not which I like. FWIW the Saint SPDs are best of both words at least for me.
If you get on with the Shimano mechanism there's no reason to use anything else IMO.
Perhaps that was the issue...It was bizarre and I'm no newb to clips from road riding days...It was infuriating...I finally got it but had the cleat so high that it was like iceskating when not clipped in lol.
I do agree with Kaz though...the Mallet Shoe + SPD (single release cleat for me) is a fantastic combo.
When I read your setup description, I just assumed you're more like me than him
Crank Brothers, once set up correctly...you can just stomp into them regardless. Even with ice frozen in them.
Time has that same characteristic.
But I never want to risk riding skates trying to clip into SPDs again or worse...being bound up in them for that briefest of instants they take to disengage versus Crank Brothers & Times.
But now most all companies have realized they need to clear lots of space in and around the cleat in the sole if people are going to get right in first try.
If I was being paid to make someone happy in clipless first time around, I'd tell them to:
1. Go with the Shimano AM7 or AM9 shoe (don't need to cut out any sole)
2. Go with Crank Brothers Mallet DH pedals (biggest flat style platform so you can ride around without a desperate need to clip in to keep on the bike)
3. Mount the cleat almost all the way back in the plate.
4. Use ONE cleat spacer
5. Mount the cleat to release in the 15 degree (easy exit) position
6. First time you pop out of the cleat when you get comfortable hammering at race speed, flip the cleat to the harder 20 degree release position
7. Use the brass cleats (softer, smoother entry and release but wear out quicker)
That's it. Crank Brothers can be muddy as satan's thoughts & still clip in or out of them in a panic if you run that exact setup.
I regularly swap out between Nukeproof Horizon flat pedals with Five Ten Freerider Pro shoes to the combo of clipless I mentioned above. Makes boring trails new again to change that single contact point on the bike.
Once all the leaves are off the trails and a main line really burns in for the season, clipless lets you slot into that groove and maybe snag an extra trail that day.
Flats when the leaves start falling or if the roots are glass...you can just get silly and toss the bike and your rudders (feet) wherever and whenever. Same trail two days in a row...swap shoes and pedals and it's a whole new ride
clip pedals or flats. these are the options for people looking to ride bikes...
Flats = BMX background pedals
Clipless = Downcountry pedals
Will forever pronounce it like a buddha sitting on the toilet pushing out a spicy sauce.
Joking aside, I'll look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.
My tips:
- it's fine to buy used pedals to start (my first set I bought new but the used pedals on my gravel work as well.. nearly impossible to kill them)
- get new cleats and don't bother with the multirelease
- start with the pedals at the lowest tension and ride around on roads to start to figure out clipping and unclipping
- bump up tension if you get accidental releases
- I follow Jeff kendall-weed on tension: two clicks max and if I get accidental releases then it's time for new cleats
It didn't take many rides to get used to it and after a season I can touch down as easy as a flat. It feels like I'm just putting my foot down.
Multi release are the best.
Now I’m on the same set of Speedplay Frogs for the last two decades. The bolts on the cleats have needed replacing, but everything else on has held up great. Super light, but the crazy amount of float took a long time to get used to for sure.
In the meantime, I've ordered the 10 degree release cleats - maybe this will make it easier while the pedals break in.
You might want to try clipping your shoe in without it on your foot (or clip in and then take your shoe off). Then you can flip it over to see what might be causing the issue.
I could try a 3rd spacer, or just give up on 5.10s...
Never thought to angle the cleats… Is my life about to change?
If you run Shimano pedals, look at spending the $3-4 on TL-PD40 which is the Shimano pedal axle removal tool to rebuild your pedals with.
You can adjust the SPD spring tension by pulling the mech apart, and adding a bit more pre-load to the wound spring (bending the little tabs out, adding a shim under the tabs where it rests against the perch) I used to do it all the time with XT pedals for our XC racers, so you’ve got the best of both worlds (durability, and clear retention)
I’ve never tried the HT pedals, but was able to modify the XT’s so that they held firm. We used to leave the shoes on the pedals as it was easier than getting them unclipped. I will say, it does make them more difficult to get clipped into as well.
Are the HT’s more difficult to clip into when the tension is wound up?
On the HT pedals the spring looks to be physically part of the cleat hold mechanism, not just adding tension to the system. That likely has something to do with how well it holds the cleat as well. Have you tried their enduro pedals?
www.magped.us/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI58aAlqjH9wIVAhx9Ch2k6wIcEAAYAiAAEgJ3uvD_BwE
You could reduce any bouncing off the pedal and possibly still release easily.
Yeah I mean the only way I can really dismount is by pulling up and then, more or less.. throwing my leg left out to kickstand (best way to put it when your leg barely works, just emotionally unattached to it at this point). I can’t roll/pivot my ankle to undo the magnets. Being able to pull up while pedaling would be huge, but still don’t think I could release my left foot.. need it to free in the same way that I use it, hence the on/off.
She used a Kona Wah Wah and glued in neodymium magnets and bolted a plate to her shoe.
Looked really secure and she said it basically guides the 'foot' into place.
I'll check back in a few years when more folks like myself come out of the woods and get creative
You can also be as snobby as you want form base CroMo/Alloy to top end Carbon/Ti model. And they're also holding up to heavy rock strikes so far.
I wonder if a different style clipless pedal like the Mallet might feel better.
Wait a sec… why would he borrow a bike with cleat-specific shoes? Did he borrow your shoes as well?
Single dude, has three bikes, has more time on hands since break-up = HT pedal type. Needs constant attention
Father of 5, rides after bedtime, washes bike ever other year = SPD pedal type. Never think about pedals again
wtf does this even mean lol, what a load of shit. Pumping and weight distribution on clipless works exactly the same as on flats. The only reason you need 2 positions on flats because the descending foot position climbs like shit, and the climbing position slips off too easily. Having multiple foot positions is pointless if you never have to worry about slipping off the pedal.
I get why people might like the feel of flat pedals but if there was any real advantage there we'd be seeing them on a lot more pro podiums. The only advantage I noticed was that the shoes walk a little better. In terms of actual on-bike performance I prefer SPDs in literally every way.
If I rode flowier trails with fewer rocks I could see going back to flats. They are different feeling, and in a fun way.
Most serious mountain bikers that I know, the ones that race, and are regularly pushing to increase speed and pace, ride clipped in. I’ve ridden both, and prefer flats (walking, hike-a-bikes, parking lot beers, driving afterwards, coaching) which I realize have little to do with actual riding, but make up part of the enjoyment of riding my bike.
All that being said, mat]bye it’s time to give it another try, it’s been years, but I’m pretty sure I still have an unused pair of eggbeater DH pedals in powder blue from interbike 2005, maybe I’ll give them another go…..
That's great that you can corner faster on flats, but I think the entire pro DH and enduro field (except for Sam Hill) would disagree with you on that.
Presenting facts on the contrary usually only reinforces the original belief,
We are weird animals, great hulking biased apes really, that put a lot of importance on our opinions on riding bikes in the woods to have fun.
I’d be willing to put a 6-pack on the fact that we could all learn to corner faster on either flats, or clips, if we spent 30 mins a week with focused practice.
Never said that everyone needs to clip in, just that it's ridiculous to claim that ppl can only learn "proper" bike handling technique on flats, or that flats are faster when they're objectively not.
I respect that everyone has a right to their own opinion, and you’re kinda proving my previous comment correct.
How are you gonna ride slope, with clipped in pedals?
Any street BMX, or dirt jumping, well same question as the slope style.
All BMX racers ride clipped in, you ever watch those guys pedal?
Not sure what you’re referring to with Freeriding, but if it’s comps (Rampage) bruh, how you gonna Superman with clipless pedals. One of the sendiest riders I know, rides clipped in my man.
Not sure what you mean by “all pro riders started on flats” but I guess if we are talking about pedalling around the garden, at least you got that part right!
Anyone can learn those skills while clipped in, and then transfer the skills to riding flats, or vice versa.
I do quite a lot of mtb coaching, and have tones of people who have learned virtually all their mtb skills while clipped in.
They’re just skills, you can learn to do any of them either clipped in or on flats. It really depends on how open people are to learning. As evidenced in most of these comment sections, most people come with a confirmation bias that what they are doing is the “best” way to do it. It’s an uphill struggle when you’re working against that.
Trails change, equipment changes, we should prolly change once in a while as well. As things progress, so does the use case for them.
I’d love to try a modern pair of clipped mtb shoes, ones where I can move the cleats further back, willing to bet I’m quicker on them once I learn to use them to my advantage.
The question was never if YOU prefer flats or clips, cause that doesn’t matter to anyone other than you, and you’ve found what you like. But just because you like it, doesn’t mean it’s better for anyone else, and that’s fine too.
You’re using very generalized language to try and justify your opinion, saying “most people can’t keep their feet on the pedals after switching from clipless”.
How are you quantifying that?
What testing are you doing?
How much time are you allowing for the person to get used to a new system?
In reality, they are just skills to learn, whether flats or clipped, given correct instruction, and practice, you can learn to be proficient on both, and virtually all high level cycling racing is done on clipped pedals.
And your last point about switching riders to bunnyhop, maybe the flats rider can bunnyhop, but can they corner as fast? Willing to bet you a 6 pack, I put a couple of the kids from my shop, who are unreal dirt jumpers, on clipped pedals, and the carnage that would unfold would make a highlight reel for Friday fails.
For the record, I haven’t been clipped in since 2004, but am going to give it a try again this week to see how it goes. We can all learn, there’s new things to try, none of us know it all, and we are just riding bicycles in the woods.
No one.
You’re being silly, silly is good
Really.
Here’s what I’ll do, totally willing to spend a day instructing, hell a weekend while you learn to dirt jump, doing feet off tricks…..
I’ll buy the beer, bring the bar-b-q, even provide all first aid requirements while this happens.
Deal?
Not sure why you think I have no idea about the skills to ride different bikes, in different situations. No need to try and insult
I’m 47 and learned sui’s on a amp b3 with a 75mm stem in the mid-nineties and that was the only real skill clipless pedals actually helped with.
You’ve decided that for some reason, and with well known facts, that somehow flat pedal riders are superior in bike handling skills. You gloss over that there would also be skills that the clipless rider is more skilled at, cause you want to be right, more than anything else.
I’m trying to point out, that they are all learned skills, both ways. One is not better than the other, they are simply tools, that serve a purpose.
Better for some, worse for others, not a be all and end all either way.
Happy to host you doing foot-off dirt jump tricks, and we can drink a beer and debate why clipped in djing would prolly be a silly idea
The fact remains that the most skilled riders ride flats. Do you suppose this is logic or just a big coincidence? And why is it that a flat rider transitions fundamental skills to clipless just fine but not vice versa? Can you address that without word salad?
I know you wanna focus on trying slopestyle with clipless but that really only proves that clipless is horrible for dj/slopestyle skill, in addition to being a hindrance to strong fundamental skill. Not sure how that supports your argument..
But I think flats are way more fun to ride
I test many SPD and almost all CB pedals. I would like to try Time pedals /cleats
After like 10 years from this weird experience I feel like maybe its time to reconsider it again, get proper shoes and pedals. As for the shoes I feel great in 5.10’s Freerider model for flats, so I believe their Hellcat model should be okay. For the pedals Im not decided in between CB Mallet E or Shimano XTR. I like the click from SPDs, but Im afraid the grip and contact with the pedal wont give me the support as I know from the flats. Mallet E looks good for the grip and contact points, but I have absolutely no experience with their locking mechanism and the reviews does not look good as they use to get broke, unclips the shoes in weird moments, etc.
I just want to have the same foot position on the pedal every time I hop on a bike with the feeling as like on the flats and not being afraid I would not be able to clip out in emergency situation.
I prefer ___ pedals, but of the ~10 different types that I've tried, I have yet to find one that I think is a perfect 10/10. I'd give one a 9/10 and a couple others an 8/10, but the rest were pure garbage IMO (and most of the ones I hate are widely recognized as some of the best).
Anyone else found the same?
No, you shouldn’t have to do this but it works.
Shimano - fix your sh!t!
"Control the tension of your pedals with your phone. Set variable release tension based on what mode your Flight Attendant suspension is in."
I've been running them on my gravel/commuter for almost a decade bc I like having just one pair of shoes, and I want to be able to walk somewhat normally in my commuting shoe.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVmSrsnVUGI
Enjoyed the article cheers!
Then again that's not the end of the world as I've just bought a pair of xpedo titanium pedals and they're a bit unreliable with the stock clips, had my first spud falls for two decades the other day!
Time is a more refined and durable CB.
If I weren't already invested in perfectly functional Times on two bikes, I'd go back to SPDs. Won't go back to CB.
I have been riding clipless since they were invented and would never consider riding flats. Say what you want about dropper posts "revolutionizing bikes, if you ever spent a really epic day with your feet jammed into a set of toe clips, believe me, you'd know what revolutionary means. This was as true for road riding as it is for dirt.
I ride with a pair of Shimano Dura Ace pedals on my road bike, I think they are the first model. Pretty sure I've had them since 1983. Still work perfectly. On my mountain bike I use Shimano XTR's, the kind with no platform. I'm only on my 2nd pair, the first lasted from whenever I got them in the 1980s until 2020. I feel like I got my money's worth. And kudos to Shimano for still building them with adjustable bearings. If my new pair goes as long as the last pair I won't need to replace them until I'm over a hundred.
As for "skills", as far as I'm concerned the real skill set that matters is being able to safely ride clippless pedals in all circumstances. Like doing the Slickrock trail or riding down Kennebec pass to Durango on the Colorado trail. Or riding in stop and go traffic for that matter
SPD for life you flattest's! Kidding, love.
I decided to try flats again at the beginning of 2021 as a "skills check" to make sure I wasn't relying on them too much. Turned out I was pretty good, but definitely needed some time on my flats to get things back to where I wanted them... I was coming off my pedals a little while jumping and also a little through fast steep rough chunk. Over a couple months I got back to being fully confident and almost as fast on flats... but I was having so much fun on my flats and there still wasn't any racing happening here, so I just left them on.
It was only last week that I finally switched back... now I've got a bit of the opposite problem... had a couple low speed climbing tumbles because I kept just trying to "step-off" my pedals.. ha!
Anyway... I think I'll go back and forth more often to help keep skills in check, for fun and just to spice things up.
Sure your feet will move around and sometimes be in the wrong position but that's the trade off.
Isn't it true that modern flats with
long pins and flat-specific shoes basically adhere you to the pedals? Seems like the goal is to emulate the secure connection you get with clipless. The only difference at that point between flat and clipless is one requires a specific foot movement to disengage and the other doesn't, no?
Flat pedals will improve your technique for body movements, handlebar manipulation, flow and so on. That way when you do race you are even faster with clipless. Overall clipless are more often than not faster than flats, but if your basic technique is flawed, you as a rider will never get much faster without reworking your fundamentals.
Again it's not to say that those same skills can't be learned while riding with clips.. it's just very rare that you'd get to the level of bike control. Also, again, once you've got a good solid foundation of core bike maneuvering skills... adding to it what you're able to do with the addition of being clipped in can take you to another level. Which is my almost all DH and EWS racers use clips. They learnt those foundational skills a long time ago and use clips to take them to the next level.
There a lot more to it and quite a bit of nuance than can be explained in a comment section. And I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do... if you don't want to it's cool, you do you.
I've found that skills learnt while on flat pedals helped me as a rider overall
Saying you shouldn't rely on your pedals to keep you clipped in is like saying you shouldn't use your suspension or your dropper post. Yeah, I guess if you plan to go back and ride a high rigid seatpost frequently then it's "bad technique" to rely on the dropper... but if not, then make the most of what your hardware allows you to do.
Again it's not to say that those same skills can't be learned while riding with clips.. it's just very rare that you'd get to the level of bike control. Also, again, once you've got a good solid foundation of core bike maneuvering skills... adding to it with what you're able to do with the addition of being clipped in can take you to another level. Which is why almost all DH and EWS racers use clips. They learnt those foundational skills a long time ago and use clips to take them to the next level.
Regarding suspension and dropper post... yes actually.. riding a rigid bike will teach you some fundamental line choice, bike handling and maneuvering skills you'll probably never learn. Probably some good weight transfer skills to be learned by leaving your seat post high all the time as well, ha!
Riding a rigid bike only teaches you the right line choice for a rigid bike.... which I think is a perfectly good analogy to flats vs clipless. I ride my gravel bike (with high, rigid seatpost) on mtb trails all the time and I don't really think most of the skills translate very well to the trail bike at all. The higher speeds, bigger tires, and suspension mean that unless there's a nice berm, I'm probably riding on a completely different part of the trail on the FS bike - jumping / unweighting over stuff that would be too jarring/awkward/sketchy to ride on the gravel bike.
Anyway... I totally get why people like flats, or want to use them when they learn to jump (or whatever). But there's pretty much no aspect of trail riding that you can't learn on clipless if you want to. 2 years ago I decided to switch back to flats for a full season just to "refresh my skills". My conclusion was that it was annoying, it didn't really help anything, and that I greatly prefer just having a single foot position on the pedals 100% of the time.
I am speaking from VAST experience, I taught manual shift driving for one of the top driving schools in the world, I have experience racing open wheel formula cars as well as off road rally and have been mountain biking for well over 40 years.
My argument is that the more skills you have the better, your argument is that you have enough skills thank you very much and you don't need to know anything "useless".
You don't need flat pedals to learn any of these. Flat pedal riders just tend to *think* that's the only possible way to arrive at those skills.
More skills are better as long as they apply to what you're doing. If someone told you "in 5 days you're going to do a street race in a Tesla", how much of that prep time would you spend practicing clutch control? Time in the saddle practicing with the equipment you're going to use is what matters.
It's occasionally fun to throw flats on my bike, and I love riding my rigid gravel bike on mtb trails from time to time, but I've never felt like switching my equipment up unlocks some untapped reservoir of performance. Does it make me better on my regular mtb setup? Sure, in the sense that I spend X number of hours out riding. Is it more effective than spending an equivalent amount of time on my regular mtb setup? IMO, no. It's just different.
It was called that originally when it emerged as the alternative to “toe clips”.
Clipping your shoe into a pedal that is called "clipless", then crashing on a completely avoidable crash had you been able to simply (instinctually) remove your foot from the pedal to catch yourself or shift the balance weight, is something you only learn by experience. This type of pedal is for roadies and hill climbers who use an upward pedal stroke. Thats it. Then for descents and jumps, pulling the bike up using your feet instead of your arms and actually having the skill and knowledge of knowing how to jump. Avoidable, head-scratching crashes that end up on Friday Fails are often "clipless" pedal riders.
I don't think I get any real benefit from the platform on the XT trail pedals, I never unclip for a gnarly section because it feels very loose/unstable. I did try CB Mallets for a season, but my SPD muscle memory was hard to break... Had my only ever couldn't unclip crash as a result. The platform was more useable, and the mud shedding was great, but I just didn't get along with the feel.
I also run Issis on my gravel bike to get a wider stance, which really helps my hips, but those pedals are comparitively garbage... Bearings and bushings crap out in the hundreds of miles, not the thousands.
If you want to ride anything of consequence on flats, better learn to load the pedals, which is less natural to a clips rider. Vice versa being light over foot when it gets rough is hard for a flats rider to do and one of the great qualities of clips.
I prefer clips overall as I don’t do many foot off tricks, and am perfectly comfortable un clipping / foot out flat out corners that need that. Feels best of both worlds if you use clips properly.
But…I’m sure if I grew up on flats I’d not like being light over the pedals in some sections. It’d probably be scary at first.