We Explain Why Cheap Drivetrains & Alloy Bikes Are Best | Pinkbike Magazine Show Ep 3

 Acolyte isn't expensive either. I actually wonder whether one is more durable than the other.

 @vinay: i have had acolyte on my bike for about 6 months, do not buy it. Significantly less durable than advent. (not that pinkbike needs another anecdote)

 Advent X is great for me after 1 season. I've had to tighten the clutch a couple times but no big problems. If it ever needs to be replaced I'm kinda excited to try a LinkGlide drivegrain though.

 Advent X is a more solid drivetrain than any 11 or 12sp I have ever used. IMO it's shameful that these big companies like SRAM spend millions on R&D and fancy equipment and their shit is still finnicky and ridiculously overpriced. I paid a hair over $200 for the Advent X derailleur, cassette, shifter and a solid KMC 10sp chain. Set it and forget it.

 except SLX is pretty much the same price, or Deore at least. and it's great.

 @CycleKrieg: Very sepcific scenario in which almost every drivetrian would have issues...cheap, mid-range, high end, etc. Advent X may have done you well for now, but pack the gaps in between the cassette gear w/ ice & snow, and/or same on the derr, it will have issues as well. Not saying your luck isn't valid, but almost any exposed drivetrain packed with ice & snow will have issues if human powered. SLX and Deore perform great and are excellent values. That's an almost unversal perspective

 Absolutely agree, had a chance to test it for a few months, derailleur feels more solid than the GX, whole set works very correct, most of us don't realise that for weekend rides 10 speed with 48t cassette is plenty, I can understand sponsored racers to choose 12s for perfect ratio, I'm not sponsored, I work hard for bike parts, I choose performance over the hype

 @mattmatthew: Almost everyone I ride with used XO1 or XX1....once set almost zero issues with exception of new cables, cleaning ans wear. It's top end, high performance, but pretty damn 'set it and forget it' as well.

 @GrzesiekDH: not true for people who live in the mtns

 @CycleKrieg: the struggle is real. 11spd xt starts shitting the bed at around - 25 or 30. The shifter was the issue. Had to "upgrade" to the newer 10spd deore. It doesn't care how cold it is, it just works.

 @huvudvind: same.. shifters are quite poor quality.

 @bman33: To be clear, I'm NOT talking about a cassette or derailleur packed with snow or ice when I said that Deore has issues. I mean very slightly wet or snow covered, as would be typical of a derailleur on a fat bike going down a groomed trail. The shifting on Deore 11spd would get stiffer and slower in sub 40d temps, dry or wet. Below 20d it would really start have severe shifting issues - often requiring double shifts with one shift back to get the right gear. Where I live trails tend to be groomed as needed, so after a few days, the top 1/4" is loose snow - fluffy powder on cold days, stickier wetness on warmer days. That snow gets kicked up by tires and ever so lightly coats derailleur (I'm sure it coats the cassette too, but likely gets pushed/melted off by the chain).

This year in MN has been worse than other years for wet/snowy conditions. And Advent X has done fantastic. Its only required the typical wipe and go to keep it running without letup. The shifter is cheapest feeling part of the whole setup. It works fine, just feels sub-par. But I can live with that, especially as the whole thing weighs less than XT 12spd.

Not saying everybody should be running Advent X, but if someone wants light, cheap and (so far) bomb-proof, its hard to beat Advent X.

 My favorite combo is Advent X derailleur Advent 9 speed shifter VG sports 11-50T 9 speed cassette

 @rickybobby18: Gotta second this. I use deore on my winter fatbike and it just works. YMMV.

 @huvudvind : Oops, too late, I already ordered the kids' version. My daughter runs the regular (bigger range) version and it seems to be doing fine. I have the groupset at home now and will wait until my chain is due for replacement and then replace the whole lot. Both Acolyte and Advent had the same range (for the kids groupset), Advent only seemed to have more gears (and a clutch that can be engaged without an allen key). Advent X has ten gears from what I understand so that's not going to change much compared to the Zee setup I have now. Zee works well enough for me, I just wanted cheaper chains and though the further distances between the sprockets will make it less likely to jump or skip as the sprockets wear. As that's what struck me most when moving from 9sp (SRAM X9) to 10sp (Shimano Zee) back in 2018. Anyway, if Acolyte doesn't work for me, I'll put Zee back on.

@maestroman21 : Which shifter did you have and what happened to it? I've got the short stroke kids' version without a display.

 @Landonarkens: sounds good.
I run advent X 10 speed and don't ever find myself want more range or ratios.

I reckon a really well sorted 9 speed with the 11-50 range would be awesome.
Stronger chains, lighter cassette, what's not to like.
I'm going to look at the VG sports cassette.

 @bman33: I have 4 going on 5 seasons on my XX1. I rarely need to adjust it. I replace the cables every spring and have replaced the chain twice. It’s been a very good drivetrain. Better yet when I bought it 4 years ago I sold the Deore kit that came on my bike and got more than retail for it.

 @CycleKrieg: I’ve been running the same xt 11 spd drivetrain on my fat bike for three years and it has been flawless, i haven’t even had to tune the gears once. I ride all winter in temps up to -20c. What I noticed is that on bike ridden in winter and wet conditions the shifter cable can start to corrode and cause poor shifting, so I grease my shifter cable well and like I said it’s been flawless.

 @vinay: Yes the kids version. In a nutshell.... the short cage deraileur for kids bikes is significantly larger than say a Zee.... the lever action is marketed as light weight for kids.... it is certainly not, and I'd say stiffer than most 10 speed shimano. The shifter ideexing failed on two units on the first ride... and the clutch needs an alan key... plus doesnt do much. Super disappointed in it overall... I gave it away and got a Zee set up with a 28t chainring upfront and an 11-42 tooth cassatte....so much better. Action is still heavy but everything else sorted.

 @mattmatthew: because part of the R&D spend is put into lowering costs.

 @bman33: what really matters is reviews from multiple riders who:
1. Ride a lot
2. Ride in shit conditions like PNW

 @maestroman21: Thanks. We'll see. As I said, if I don't like it the Zee stuff goes back on. I'm using it with a 34t oval chainring and the 11-36t XT cassette. I thought that was the biggest it could take so I'm surprised to see you run a cassette that big. I have tried it with the Wolftooth Goatlink for a while (just for the increased chainwrap, not for the bigger range) and after some minimal chain stretch the cage could pull the chain sufficiently when in the heaviest gear.

 @vinay: Ive run zee (FR version) with an 11-42t cassette for many years flawlessly. The DH zee will not work with that.

 Does XT qualify as "cheap"?

 @vinay: Relative to anything newer, yes.

 I just built up a brand new bike in November with XT 11 speed to match my other bikes. I have no reason to "upgrade" to 12 speed, and have no interest in using batteries to shift.

 @vinay: in the past? No. With current 11 speed XT prices being comparable to modern NX? Definitely!

 Absolutely. Super dependable. It was awesome with the 11-42 cassette and after changing to a Sunn 11-46 with no big jumps in cog size it just got even better.

 Ah the good old days

 @rickybobby18: Weird. I’ve been running the same XT 11 spd mech since early 2017 and that’s never happened to me.

 @rickybobby18: you know those clamp bolts have a torque rating

 @Zimbaboi: Yeah...I know. I tried everything. Even filed the corners on the cable routing portion of the clamp. Couldn't get it to stop shredding cables. Even had a few bike shop mechanics clamp it instead of me. Multiple derailleurs, multiple bikes.

 @rickybobby18: I think some bikes just have crap routing that makes this problem worse, especially when they send the cable through the chainstay coming out at weird angles.

 Sure, but what advantages does it have over 10 speed Deore 4100 with an 11-46 Sunrace Cassette?

 @rickybobby18: can confirm, I went through 3 cables from this issue.

 @vinay: You can buy an XT 11spd derailleur on Jensen right now for $60

 @woofer2609: these go to 11

 I'm using a Shimano 11sp mix on my 27.5. XT derailleur. XTR shifter, and ZTTO SLR2 11-46 cassette. Got a 30T chainring up front. Works good enough for me.

 @abtcup: ztto is so rad. I’m running advent x with a 10 speed ztto slr2 11-50 cassette and a xx1 eagle chain and it’s beautiful

 @vinay: use to be half the price as 12 speed GX and 10 times as good.

 @JiminOz: I suppose it is a matter of reference and I'm not up with the latest stuff. I came from SRAM X9 9sp which I considered high end (with X7 being the midrange and X5 low end), then in 2018 built a new bike with Zee (10sp). I considered LX and Zee midrange, XT high end and Deore low end (for mountainbiking). I thought of XTR and X0 as race spec so lighter at the expense of maybe some durability. Not necessarily higher end, just different priorities. I tried a few of the smaller XTR sprockets on my XT cassette but they don't necessarily last longer. Pricing may have taken a leap with 12sp stuff but I never really looked into it as the big derailleur cages already put me off. I only just bought the Microshift Acolyte kids' set recently and will try it as a replacement for my Zee setup once the chain is worn.

So yeah, it sounds like people just started to call something cheap just because nowadays there are more expensive alternatives available. But for that mindset to shift you'd first have to accept something more expensive to be the default. Which I never did. Not because of the price per se. Only because of the insanely long derailleur cages !

 @woofer2609: weight and shifter feel

 @vinay: yeah I agree with this. There are wonky pricing / obsolescence factors that have made it inexpensive for a while but XT has never been positioned as a budget/value option, especially not when it came out. It's more like how 142x12 frames or 26" wheels/tires got really cheap.

 @bkm303: Funny enough, my bike runs 26" wheels with a 142mm axle. People would call it an expensive frame though because people are only willing to pay so much for a steel frame without rear suspension. I'm willing to pay much for something if I know I'll be really happy with it and I know it is going to last. I've got a custom steel frame so if I weren't happy with it, it would have been my own fault for sending them the wrong geometry (and being stubborn). But a drivetrain, you can be happy with it but it will still brake sooner or later. It is not worth it for me. Especially as I care more about pumping the bike than actually pedaling .

 @VtVolk: Nice Spinal Tap nod . XT 11 speed derailleur with a 10 speed Saint shifter is magic for me. Microshift 11-48 cassette and 11 speed Dura Ace chain. Shifts are silky smoove. I bought the Saint shifters when Jenson would have them on sale for $41.94 (which it is right now). Might pick up another....or two for the remaining 11 speed bikes I have that will be converted in due time.

 Just wait.

 i noticed that too

 so good!

 If you are going to stand on it regularly, sure you do

 *12 speed X01 bike

 What Dario mentions is the eThirteen 9-46 cassette. If you run it with a 2 tooth smaller chainring as they suggest you'd be surprised how close the gear ratios are. 3.2>0.64 compared to 3.3>0.65. With perks of a compact, reliable derailleur.

 Agree on 12 speed. On a 29 with 30x51 and it's just enough for the steepest climbs near me. However disagree on carbon. I've never broken an alloy bike. I'd rather save £s rather than Lbs. Currently on a privateer 161 and I love the combo of top spec suspension, 12 speed SLX and alloy frame. Performs great with a "low" cost

 Re frames - there are some strong carbon frames but most of them you sacrifice some durability in case of crashes. Sure they may work for you but for hacks that crash? Well imperfect.

 @melonhead1145: I broke an aluminum frame. I'm on year 5 of my current carbon trail bike, and it's running great. Tons of crash damage, but none of it is to the carbon itself.

Spread out over 5 years, that carbon frame doesn't cost so much anymore either.

 @jdejace: 10 tooth is already pretty in efficient, 9 is WAY worse. When I'm sprinting for a massive gap, I don't want that 9 tooth grinding to be the reason I eat shit.

I haven't broken a derailleur yet from it hanging low. I've destroyed plenty of hangers though, unrelated to the derailleur length.

 Only takes once to bust a seat stay on a carbon frame with what seemed like a minor rock hit to swear off carbon forever.

 As someone who is running an 11spd xt drivetrain on a stumperjumper evo alloy, I concur

 I missed the 11 speed train but if/when I setup my next bike 11-speed shimano is the plan. Cheap, reliable, efficient.

 I climb big mountains and 11 spd 11-46 with 30 tooth chainring gets me up anything I want to get up. If it is too steep to get up in the lowest gear you are better off walking

 10spd Deore is great! I've been running 10spd deore for a few years now and it's more than enough gears for me for all my Sea to Sky xc missions. With 12 speed I found I was shifting multiple gears every time the terrain changed pitch and it was so finicky for me and required too much constant adjusting

 @chubby5000: This has been my experience as well. I've got 12sp XT on my trail bike and it's great except I'm always shifting multiple gears as once. I've got 10sp Deore on a hardtail I'm going to sell and it's great! 11-46T, no huge jumps between gears, not very finicky to adjust, and take a beating better than most modern 12sp stuff. My next build is probably going to be 11sp XT with 11-46T and a good ol' HG hub body!

 @malca: I'm still rocking 11sp XO drivetrain on my V1 alloy Sentinel with 30T ring and Ethirteen 9-46 cassette. Perfectly crisp shifting, durable, all the amount of range I need. I have absolutely no reasons to want to go 12sp.

 Sold my 11 speed SLX drivtrain and just use 10 speed Shimano now. The old 10 spd XT derailleurs are fine with 42t cassettes, and the new Deore 10 speed stuff just works.

 Yes! I wish sram would make a more compact 12 speed cassette. 50t is also overkill where I ride.

 12 speed isn't necessary unless you're a stickler for short jumps between gears. it's the wide range that's helpful. If I had a 10-50T 10-speed setup that behaved as nicely as my GX Eagle I doubt I would notice or miss the extra 2 gears. In fact I rarely get into the 10T cog and when I do it's not for very long so I know for sure I could get rid of at least that one.

 @chubby5000: And you can run 10 or 11 sp chain which could save the day. Light, reasonably priced cassettes. Love 10sp

 Blessing in disguise, run a chain guide and don't worry about the clutch, in ultra nerd world this actually can let the suspension cycle a little more freely, unless you are on a hard tail, then yeah that sucks ass.

 Switch to a 28 or 26t ring. I did, yeah, it probably screws up the suspension while pedaling, but it beats walking. One day bike company's will realize that suspension on enduro and all mountain bikes should be based around a 28t front ring, as anybody using these bikes will be going up steep climbs.

 When my GX mech finally got too wobbly to shift properly (lasted several years, so I'm not complaining) replacements were really expensive. So I swapped to an SLX mech. Works fine with GX Eagle shifter and cassette. Maybe more noise over rough stuff, but shifting is really good

 @woofer2609: I'd like to see bikes designed around 30T at most, it seems like everyone is still at 32T

 Really wish they were in the podcast feed too!

 Wondering (and have asked many times now) - def'ly trying to watch or bluetooth but its easier to just have it all in one single podcast feed - meanwhile - no podcasts the past 2 weeks and erratic casts since Taipei... being a podcast junkie (and special flower) this has thrown my world into chaos. Keep buggin' em!!!

Also loving you got 2 Russian / Chinese downvotes on your post...as if this is some kind of controversial idea

 The discussion of material is sort of irrelevant unless we get test data for maximum load impact the frames can take. A carbon and aluminum bike can weight about the same, but the carbon bike may be much stronger (if properly made).

For example, Im on my second Canfield Jedi, because my old one was extremely reliable despite many years of bike park abuse. My new one weighs closer to 38 lbs. My friends have DH bikes, V10 and Pivot Phoenix, and they are significantly lighter with similar components and aluminum wheels. All of these are proper downhill rated. So is the Canfield just carrying extra weight for nothing, or can it take a harsher impact against the frame that would crack the carbon ones?

 @8a71b4: for myself its not the riding that makes problem with carbon. but when youre travelling or loading it, its more likely to fall and many areas are more vulnerable. the top tube or the chainstay can crack more easy because its not made for that. aluminum is better in that regard.

 @8a71b4:

You’re not wrong, but all these gravity-focused bikes from mainstream brands all need to pass the same safety testing, so they’re all theoretically ‘strong enough’. Within that framework, it’s very difficult to push the boundaries of strength/weight ratios, especially when you’re mass manufacturing overseas at scale and trying to do it as cheaply as possible. Same with steel frames, pretty much the only bikes that push the limits and embody the best qualities of their frame material are from boutique/custom manufacturers who don’t have the same manufacturing and regulatory burdens.

I remember as a kid in the 2000s, forums were littered with pictures of cracked and broken alloy bikes. Now it seems you can take even a basic trail /xc bike to a gravity park and hit all the jumps [your skills can manage] without any real worries.

For some riders and terrain, carbon rims seem to display a clear durability advantage. I’m not convinced the same is true for frames, outside of road and XC racing.

 My 2021 Stumpjumper came with NX. Over 2 years in it's still working fine. You can wiggle the derailleur with your hand and there's quite a bit of play but it's still shifting perfectly. The cassette is super solid, I bent a tooth but I just bent it back and it's been fine ever since. I have no complaints about the cranks with the chainring still in great shape. 12 speed chains are expensive though.

 @ichabodchain: that's the thing. I had one NX drivetrain last for two full seasons before I upgraded out of it. I had another one that immediately died, cassette bent, clutch weakened to non-existent, chain broken. These two groups experienced about the same treatment. The only thing that this can be blamed on is bad company tolerances to defects.

 I have the same bike. Absolutely zero reasons to switch out the Deore drivetrain with the great ratios of the SunRace 11-46t Cassette. The Suntour XCM fork is another story and works best as a boat anchor.

 I’m enjoy me some shimano… but 12sp slx and deore derailers have been shit. Soft and vulnerable with a 27.5 wheel.

 Yep. Got three deore and one SLX mechs in my parts bin all less than 6 months use that just fell to bits. Shimano’s mechs aren’t the most robust at the best of times but if you insist on going 12 speed then a XT mech is the minimum requirement. SLX and Deore aren’t fit for purpose and you’d be way better off going with 11 speed XT or even SLX than you would be with a 12 speed groupset. Cheaper also.

 Yeah it took me 5 years till my GX 1x11 derailleur had to be replaced. And I got a new one for 30 bucks, can't beat that. Much better price to performance ratio compared to eagle

 GX 11-speed derailleur with an X01 cassette and an X1 shifter has not let me down

 I throw my carbon bike away from me and I have no worries. I don't know why everyone's so scared of carbon bikes, most are built damn well and can handle as much or more than aluminum bikes. I haven't had to true my Reserves in over 3 years of getting beat to hell but my EX511's need to be touched at least once or twice a season. Ride what you want and how you want.

 @zarban: I'm a fat f@ck that breaks things. Not carbon bashing. Agreed on carbon wheels. After snapping two EX511 in 6 months, I popped for carbon wheels. So far so good, we'll see how they hold up long term.

 The GX/XT 11 derailleurs have smaller cages, but otherwise I'd assume Linkglide will last a bit longer with the smoother shifts. Haven't given it the 4-year test yet though, so stay tuned.

 garbaruk.com/products/cassettes/11-speed-xd.html

Not so much in the less expensive side though

 Sunrace makes an inexpensive 11spd 10-46.

 They keep the Lego sets in a locked cage at the local mega-mart - those plastic bricks are gold!

 Second hand Lego is where its at, try charity shops too. With instruction books becoming digital its no longer an issue if the seller doesn't have the box or manual. Go forth and pick up some amazing bargains my good sir!

 Have a good friend working at a Lego store and they never got a problem to meet sales top target. Some of the kits are crazy expensive.

 Show me how to install that on my current bike that I love, and I’m right there brother.

 This is standard information for anyone who actually rides that the clutch on a Shimano mech will be the first thing to go if you don’t bend or break it. I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. When I comes to Shimano components leaky pistons, random bite point and corroding clutches are infamous issues everyone has experienced.

 @thenotoriousmic: Thank You! 12 speed Shimano shifts incredible from Deore to XTR when new, but when the clutches start having issues that's all out the window. I do greatly appreciate how much better Shimano Deore, and SLX is vs SRAM NX or SX.

 And what about an ar-15 proof freehub body, in case the single track is near an elementary school!

 I think that's the point though, isn't it? We largely ride bikes in the spec they come in for review. After riding said bikes, even with their $2000 groups, we say that if we were to buy a groupset we would just get something cheap and cheerful. I don't personally think that is a contradiction.

 @henryquinney:

That’s not correct by your own words…

Your personal bike is a) Carbon, b) AXS, and c) is a bling-tastic build with aftermarket cranks and Ohlins suspension.

There’s is nothing cheap, alloy or low end about it…

m.pinkbike.com/news/staff-rides-henry-quinneys-transition-spire.html

m.pinkbike.com/news/staff-rides-henry-quinneys-transition-spire.html

 @Saidrick: Sorry, I don't take umbrage at much but please don't "That’s not correct by your own words…" me and then massively misrepresent what I said. I think it's absolute BS and I don't think is very kind.

Yes, that is my bike - and it's a very nice bike which I'm grateful to have - but as I said, we largely ride bikes that have come in for review which we don't control the spec of. I got that drivetrain and cranks as it was left over from Budget vs. Baller. Would I spend that kind of money on carbon cranks? As nice as they are - no bloody way. Admittedly, whilst working for PBR and in South America I didn't do many reviews and just had that as my daily - which I in no way suggested otherwise.

However, I'm very much within my rights to say - if I was buying it off the shelf this is what I would buy. I would never spend $2000 on a drivetrain - ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. But if a bike came with it and I tested it would I take it off for the test? Well, no.

 @henryquinney: so you are lucky enough to ride a bike that you didn't have to pay for. Good for you!
But I think a lot of readers are interested to see what you, as experts, would use on a bike you actually had to pay for.
I want a 'budget VS budget' series. Where the budget doesn't mean as low as possible Alhonga manure but a fixed price for a complete build. You can use second hand, sales items, whatever. It can be a series with different budgets, bike types every time.

 @henryquinney:

Something doesn’t add up here. In your review of the Spire, you said “it’s the best bike ever , kinda yeah”. You also said it’s been your favorite bike to date. However, if the “staff rides” are really just left over free review bikes, the. You should probably change the title of the article to free awesome bikes.

I do think you should change all the equipment on the spire to all the cheap heavy stuff that you think is so great and ride for a year and compare the two.

What I would tell you as a journalist is that being real is the most important trait you can have. When you have a podcast ( video magazine ) saying that cheap and heavy is great, BUT you don’t actually ride cheap and heavy, it comes off as not being genuine.

Those two things can’t be both be true at the same time. Either it’s so great that you choose to ride the cheap stuff after you’re done reviewing or the good stuff is good, so you choose to ride that after you’re done reviewing it. Your actions here, will speak louder than your words…

 @ak-77: That's a really great idea. We'd tried to get something going before I went away but I'm back now, so there really aren't any excuses. Let me try and get this going as we move into summer.

I don't know if you've seen but Kaz has also changed up the review format in the articles to put more of an emphasis on value, and get us out of our tech-ed bubble a bit.

@Saidrick: I don't think we're too far apart here so I'm just going to be really open and hope that serves as enough - that bike is my favorite bike ever, and I've had the opportunity to ride some other great bikes too. I asked Transition if I could borrow it after the test to use it as a test mule. It isn't my bike though, and it certainly isn't mine to keep. I still stand by what I said and I don't feel that's a contradiction. I really like this bike - to me it is the best bike I've ever ridden. I really try and stay away from things having any monetary value in terms of "keeping" things - as it's a slippery slope. I never keep anything or sell things, I just make sure it goes back or gets given to a local shredder in need of help.

I mean, you're right in that it's important we test things at all levels, and not just the most expensive. I don't really get to choose that stuff though, and it often comes by decree due to scheduling. I've currently got that 11-speed Linkglide on the Spire, I've given away the Freebee AXS that I received after BVB and I've also got some good value Versus tires on there. Without sounding a bit silly, a lot of the time I just ride what I'm given - without too much agenda on my end.

I still stand by what I said though - I do f*cking love that bike, and high-end drivetrains are great, but so is SLX - that said, is XTR better than SLX? Yes. But for me, SLX would be absolutely fine, with maybe some Hayes brakes. Suspension, however, I would spend on.

You're of course right though - as journo's we only have our word, and I'm happy to stand by mine.

 @henryquinney:

That’s a good answer! Carry on.

 @henryquinney: Great to hear hear you're working on this type of concept, curious to see what comes out.
Just to comment on the other part of your story: I think it is an omission that you didn't mention in the 'staff rides' article that you have the Transition on loan for free for a long period of time. I, and probably others, assumed those articles were about bikes that you spent your hard earned money on. Free use of equipment, even if you do not get to be the owner, is a form of sponsorship. At the very least that should be clearly stated in every article in which the bike plays a role, but if you value your reputation as an independently reporting journalist, my advice is to avoid that situation altogether. I am not saying the money has to come out of your pocket, if you use this bike to test components for reviews it's not strange your employer would pay for it. But getting to use a bike for free, and then writing good things about it smells fishy. Even if the good things are meant.

 @ak-77: You know what, that's a fair shout. I'll amend that article for clarity later, as well as be sure to be refer to it as a loaner etc. In the future. I do try and be transparent, but I've clearly taken some things as given unduly. Always happy to talk about this stuff though and thanks for the comments.

 @ak-77: and he just told you that very thing AND it was in the review.

It’s like most things in life, Toyota vs Kia, Walmart vs Whole Foods, your girlfriend vs ….

We can get by with less and oftentimes we won’t even notice the difference.

Henry is alright !

 @sanchofula: I don't know what you mean by 'it was in the review'. This wasn't about a review but about the 'staff rides' article. And the fact that he got the bike on loan for free wasn't in there, as far as I saw.
I agree on the 'Henry is alright' part. If I thought he was a douchebag, would I spend time and effort to tell him politely how I think he could do better?

 Depends on the terrain. Once you ride a heavier bike on rougher downhill, its just a much more confidence inspiring ride compared to a lighter bike thats more pingy off of stuff.

 Are you fat(bike) shaming?

 @8a71b4: totally, you’re right. But still, goddam, that’s a pig to carry around

 Dude, I'm glad I am not the only person that noticed @dariodigiulio 's mad style. Porn star mustache, serial killer glasses, slip on docs, high water camos...on fire! @henryquinney you need to step up yr game, mate.

 Bless you Hellbelly, best PB compliment I've ever received

 I hope not, and I doubt it.

 @HappyBiker19: it hasnt

 @maxbarron: I see a new one today!

 We got you again!

 @henryquinney: Touche