Taipei Cycle Show Day 2 Randoms - Seeing Double

Mar 21, 2013 at 1:24
by Rob Dunnet  
cat

If you want to start a bicycle brand this catalog is a good place to start. Everything from open molds to something you dreamed up in shop class, it can be found here.


bike show

Adrenaline Agent I have seen this suspension design before but I can not place it.

The Adrenaline Agent looks familiar. For some reason it makes me feel like riding a tech downhill line on it while howling like a banshee.



Macmahone

machmahone

MacMahone has been around for several years and have used a variety of suspension platforms, but this is the first time I have seen this design on their bikes.


astro

Astro makes carbon and aluminum frames for several international companies. They have had a version of this carbon downhill frame on display for several years.



Propain with one of the brightest bikes a the show.

Propain with one of the brightest bikes a the show.

Propain with one of the brightest bikes at the show. I am curious if this bike will glow in the dark.


dafsddfsaf

Taokas

This is the first time I have seen Taokas at the Taipei Cycle Show. They had several bikes on display using several different suspension designs.


Kinesis

Kinesis

At first glance I thought this was a simple single pivot, but Kinesis has something different going on here.




206 Comments

  • 159 5
 Good old chinese R&D: Repeat and Duplicate
  • 24 2
 hahahaha holy shit why havn't I ever heard this one.... that's beauty
  • 5 3
 Haha YEEESSSSSS!!! I LIKE.
  • 2 1
 Totally so!!!
  • 2 0
 excellent !
  • 5 0
 MK14 dh is awsome..... Want
  • 26 2
 Except in this case, these frames are the originals. The brand name frames we are so familiar with are simply these frames with the brand name stickers on them. Pretty funny huh? Don't be too smug about our western "innovations".
  • 3 1
 Europeans will appreciate the mandatory CE mark - China Export
  • 4 1
 Weekends are made in China. They don`t last long!
  • 5 2
 The 12th pic looks like a Session. Like actually.

Here we go with neg props because I'm "continuing an old joke".
  • 1 0
 its an identiti mogul copy/original whatever
  • 2 0
 @Turqoise, The Trek Session has a floating shock which mounts to the chainstays, unlike the Taokas Dumun 200 which mounts to the front triangle. The rear pivot would also have to be on the axle rather than above it. So while it may look like a Trek Session, it certainly wouldn't operate like one. It has more in common with a Kona which has a similar shock mount and rear pivot.
  • 40 1
 Hey Pinkbike Editors, I think it's your duty as "journalists" to point out more clearly that the brands everyone here are mocking as ripoffs are actually the OEM's for the brands everyone here worships. Unless, of course, you want to continue to perpetuate the notion that bro's with flat brimmed caps have managed to engineer and build an aluminum hydroforming and carbon manufacturing facility next to the North Shore Motel.
  • 9 1
 Exactly, this needs to be at the top. Most bike brands are simply design shops who license their designs for manufacture to Giant, Kinesis, et al. Some brands do serious R&D into their designs, some acquire designs from other 3rd parties, others take existing platforms and modify them and others just point, choose and add a logo. Almost nobody is manufacturing their own frames anymore.
  • 5 0
 So many people bag on companies like Da Bomb or Astro. KHS gets most of its frames from Astro. Astro isn't copying them, KHS just buys from the catalog, but may tweak to their own specs. I have owned several DaBomb frames, and they have all been very well made, excepting a tight rear triangle on the sputnik I used as a BMX cruiser. At 265lbs, I was unable to break any of the frames.
  • 3 0
 www.astroeng.com.tw/products_info.php?kind=1&series=6&id=38

KHS's fancy new DH bike is just an Astro AFDHA.
  • 7 0
 @gamblor

^^ agreed 100%

for those of us, who work in the bike industry, its an "open" secret that most of the American, Canadian and European owned 'brands' are nothing but marketing / design offices

using off-shore vendors for actual product manufacturing (big brands have their own "people" on the factory floor overseeing QC) ; and imported using cargo-container focused distribution networks to the independant dealer or bike chain stores

some of the biggest 'brands' have their own domestic engineering staff and product designers, as well as "R & D" 'labs' on their domestic premises where they have expensive computer design systems, CNC, rapid prototype and welding / heat treatment equipment to allow the development of "skunk works" type equipment before it is redesigned for their offshore vendors to produce

these biggest brands also have a warranty department in-country which holds warranty stock to ensure a timely turn around for any consumers who suffer premature manufacturing defects; in contrast to the small brands who often rely on their vendor in Taiwan, China, Vietnam or Cambodia to ship a replacement warranty product to the bicycle retailer

the smaller brands will generally take an existing product from an off-shore vendor (hint: sourcing a vendor through "The Taiwanese Bicycle Guide" a.k.a. TBG) and either adapt it by small, elemental changes, or just have the product 'rebadged' with their graphic and colourway; the first example costs more, the second example has minimal cost penalties as long as quantities are sufficient


nothing wrong with what they are doing, except for the smokescreen of credibility the bike industry marketing often proposed Wink
  • 3 0
 "Smokescreen of credibility"...that's good.

Unfortunately for consumers, that smokescreen creates quite a mark-up.
  • 3 0
 If you have the money to pay 2.4k+ for a frame, might as well get a handmade one from a local company for the exact same price... It always blows my mind when I see people so happy to buy made in china stuff when locals make quality/unique stuff for a very competitive price. I'd much rather have my money go to true local artisans than marketing guys in a big box.

As for the smokescreen, manufacturers already know what their 2016 bikes will look like so I find all the "latest advances in technology" claims ridiculous haha.
  • 2 0
 @PLC07: That's what I'm saying!

There will always be a market for handmade/made in the USA/small company/boutique/etc. bikes from small, rider centric companies. The problem is that companies selling mass produced catalog bikes are hiding behind the price protection theyre afforded by these smaller companies and the inequity of information in the bicycle industry.

CRC is hopefully going to drive down prices for mass produced catalog bikes, which for the most part are great and well made, and allow smaller, boutique brands to further seperate themselves and continue to sell bikes as their value will be more apparent.
  • 3 0
 Every time you call out the "made in china marketing brands" on their overpriced bikes there is always someone who comes crying "but they put a lot of R&D an QC in their stuff and bla bla bla". Smaller handmade bike companies ALSO have R&D AND very high QC ON TOP of giving decent paying jobs to people you might know... And they still manage sell their frames for the price of a mass produced bike and make enough money to keep the company going.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel that those china marketing franchises are greedy and we're not getting our money's worth when we purchase such a bike. This also goes for parts.
  • 1 0
 @PLC07

thank for your comments - its basically all down to a different business model

something to understand about the big brand companies (with off-shore manufacturing vendors), is that they have higher operating costs simply because they employ more domestic staff working on design / engineering, marketing / customer service / warranty to support their dealer network. They have sponsored professional riders, sales reps. and regular promotions, this all costs money. To have their own people working at the vendor doing QC work costs money.

the smaller brands have a lower cost, scaled down operation with few staff and amateur sponsored (flow) riders, because that is what their business supports. They rarely have their own people working in QC at their vendor; its often a guy employed by the vendor, and paid by the vendor, who is not going to flag up any QC concerns because his loyalty is to his employer, not his client Frown

For example? Banshee Bikes. Its literally Keith, Jay and a couple of guys running that company. They have a vendor in Taiwan (Pacific Cycles) which fabricates Keith's designs. When I was working for a Banshee distrib. we had horrible QC problems with frames we received from Taiwan, because they did not have the resources to pay for a level of QC which met Keith's exacting standards (which as it should be)

more recently? they have re-organised their resources to solve this issue. For a small company, the first they may know of any QC issues is when their distrib. starts calling after receiving a drop of frames direct from the vendor, and find they cannot mount a chain guide because the ISCG holes do not match the ISCG pattern, or the rear tire is jammed solid against the chainstay because the frame is poorly aligned!
  • 1 0
 @PLC07

another business model is the small brand, domestic manufacturer.

I can think of 2 companies I worked for through their UK distrib:-

1. Ellsworth Bikes, 2. Devinci Bikes

1. Ellsworth was really a financial mess. some very talented staff left. manufacturing starting to move off-shore ("Glimpse" complete version of Epiphany, new CF frames coming from TW). Manufacturing plant split from parent company (sub-contractor business model). Lack of innovation, relying on "old glory", poor warranty support well documented on the internet forums.

2. Devinci Bikes a model of excellent domestic manufacturing, underpinned by "Bixi" and "Boris Bikes" (London) urban rental bike manufacturing business (which has suffered as Western Government cut back on spending for infrastructure projects). Newer models using CF frames coming from TW. Nothing but praise for Devinci, but a rarity in the bike business.

look how many "domestic" brands in the UK and USA, that previously manufactured domestically, have become nothing more than design/marketing offices with product development labs attached. All manufacturing moved off-shore.

in the UK? Brands like Claud Butler, Raleigh and Dawes were manufactured domestically until they failed to adapt, and simply reduced to selling property to recover capital, then moved to off-shore manufacturing with UK remaining as just design/marketing offices
  • 2 0
 thts why i ride Foes bikes, inhouse R&D and handmade by one man who gets my money himself...
  • 2 0
 @hampsteadbandit: Yeah, I visited the devinci plant and they are who I had in mind when I wrote those comments. They do outsource a bunch of models but all the mountain bikes (except the carbon ones) are welded/assembled in canada. Not only their QC is tight but their manufacturing process are often far greater than the much bigger brands.

I'm assuming that if you spend so much money to have more domestic staff working on design / engineering / marketing / customer service / warranty to support their dealer network / sponsored professional riders / sales reps / regular promotions it's because it is a proven business model that nets you more bike sales so more money in the end.

The thing I don't get though, is that if with that business model you cannot beat the price (by a significant margin) of smaller domestic brands who have higher manufacturing costs per bike and still deliver bikes of superior quality at a sustainable rate... it makes me believe the bigger company is either not selling their bikes as low as they could or their business model is inefficient in the end.
  • 1 0
 @PLC07

Devinci only manufacture the full-suspension aluminium-alloy frames and "Bixi" / "Boris Bike" (urban rental) frames in Quebec

their hardtails and carbon fibre have been made off-shore for some seasons.

They used to make the "Hucker" and other aluminium-alloy frames in Quebec, but they were not profitable

it takes almost as much time to manufacture a hardtail frame, as a full suspension frame (which is actually somewhat simpler because its a series of manufacturing jobs (front triangle, CNC rockers, rear stays, rear swingarm), which are then bolted together, and the FS sells at much higher price than the hardtail with extra profit from the outsourced rear suspension shock and bearings

your comment about the difference in pricing between big brand and small brands in interesting, the larger brands will always have higher operating costs domestically (which in terms of sales or support / manufacturing ratio, has a higher cost, than a small brand with a slightly higher manufacturing cost for off-shore labour, but much lower domestic labour and premises rental / rates costs for sales and support)

in essence, the bigger brands are easier to physically see or test ride in a show room, tend to have more stock availability throughout the season and definitely have more timely support when warranty issues arise (which they always do, at some point, with bicycles!¬)
  • 40 2
 Allright everyone, before you start saying "looks like... or...", we all know that these bikes resemble other more well know companies offerings due to the fact that they use the same suspension layout, that is the point
  • 12 4
 yah but that macmahone pretty much is the commencal down to every pivot point. main pivot looks a bit higher than on a commencal though, expect pedal kickback
  • 17 0
 Is it not a well-known fact that Astro and other Indonesian/Taiwanese manufacturers offer better-known companies frame designs to buy off-the-shelf?
  • 11 1
 @BECA262 Weren't macmahone around longer with that design than commencal?
  • 11 1
 That Propain looks fucking sick!
  • 11 2
 whats the fun in having a repetitive market with the same exact items spilled everywhere with different brand names and price points. It's nothing exciting, its kinda upsetting to see the very few manufacturers are reaching out to evolve designs. It's for this reason I absolutely love YETI cycles. They seem to go there own way and try there own things... very very innovative and cool.
  • 14 14
 They all look like Trek.
  • 3 2
 Why does this matter?

I see this all over the place, for example, many cars use the MacPherson Strut suspension design, but you don't hear people crying that the underbody looks like a Ford Focus, likewise the Rack-and-Pinion steering.

I get the whole copyright thing, but once the patent is up, ultimately many of these experimental designs will die away in favour of the ones that work well, therefore a lot of bikes will use the Trek Session's design.
  • 20 0
 I'm pretty sure my Camry and my Honda have the same suspension design. I think I'll just pull off the badges and slap trek on them. . .
  • 4 2
 None of them look like a session... I'm impressed!
  • 4 3
 That green Propain gives me a big ol' stiffy
  • 2 2
 The one that really gets me is the ctm. It looks EXACTLY like a khs dh300. I get that a bike can have a similar suspension layout, but that is just a copy, right down to the tubing and everything.
  • 1 1
 Looks like a lot of floating suspension designs have the shock compressing from both directions, whereas I think Trek has the shock moving in the same direction as the compression. I know its the running joke that they all look like Treks, but do any other manufactures have a design that actually works like one?
  • 2 0
 Hell ya!!
  • 1 0
 @summit800 stole the words out of my mouth
  • 2 6
flag evan1gill (Mar 21, 2013 at 20:41) (Below Threshold)
 I spy a trek session
  • 2 0
 It's been well known for years that the Taiwan manufacturer Xtension made frames for KHS, Azonic, and others (Transition I believe). They design and make the frames and then companies who don't want to invest in their own designs, or just want to tweek and existing design, buy the frames from them and slap on some logos. One of the most blatant was the KHS DH200 and the Azonic Eliminator II. The KHS had a Horst link and the Azonic a faux bar, but basically the same bike. Doesn't mean they suck, just that less R&D went into them...which keeps the price down.
  • 1 0
 @The-Mountainbart Commecal just recently came out with the suspension platform
  • 22 0
 has anyone considered that maybe these folks are the people coming up with the designs and the more accepted brands are simply picking them out of a catalog adding 500% markup.
  • 3 1
 Neither good nor bad - most of the stuff is very uninspired and that makes it boring. Badging a taiwanese frame or part and pricing it like the real thing is just not enough nowadays.
  • 3 0
 In the early 80's people used to laugh about and make fun of the same things in Japanese car and electronic designs. Now Japan is at the top of the Economic food chain in those technologies. You'll see.... In 10 years Everyone will be riding Chinese frame designs with stickers that read made in Vietnam and that'll cost them pennies on the dollar. B -mack is right. Ive talked to guys who worked at Sinister and Iron Horse, and they said that there are 100's of bike designs in catalogs in Taiwan. just pick and order. Slap on cool sticker and you are ABC Bike company. You can tweek your frame to any specification. In 3 mos, a container of 1,000 frames will be at your door.
  • 2 0
 The MacMahone is a sweet lookin bike.
  • 3 0
 @wakaba: Not enough these days? All over this website people are stoked about bikes that are taiwanese frames badged and priced like the real thing while being generally very reluctant when true innovation comes up.
  • 1 0
 the point i'm trying to make is that far east frames ARE the real thing its the big names simply re-badge the frames not the other way around.
  • 34 0
 Looks like a bike.
  • 5 0
 I want all of those. They're so sexy
  • 1 0
 Exactly.
  • 2 0
 I WANT TO RIDE ALLLL THE BIKES! On another note... I'm glad MacMahone is getting some publicity! looks like they make some bitchin' rigs. I have yet to ride one but it's on my list.
  • 28 5
 the Chinese would clone your mom if they could make a buck off her
  • 6 6
 Come on! That's unbelievable you just said that!
  • 27 1
 she's a nice lady
  • 3 0
 naturekid51: both were equally as "insensitive" and equally as laughable!
  • 4 0
 She makes a mean breakfast
  • 3 1
 and never ask for bus fare
  • 21 0
 GOD only make human, animal, and earth. china and taiwan fill the rest of it
  • 2 0
 Bwahahahaha! Except for Ikea, oh wait, a lot of their stuff comes from...?
  • 12 3
 except there is no god...
  • 10 2
 Tell that to Aaron Gwin.
  • 1 0
 Prove it
  • 19 0
 People who talk shit about Taiwanese manufacturing have no idea about bike industry.
  • 14 0
 Taiwanese manufacturing is some of the best in the world...Taiwanese patent laws, not so much.
  • 2 0
 disagree. US patent laws allow you to patent the blindingly obvious purely to inhibit.
  • 15 0
 lol, I love how everyone mocks these design copies and automatically thinks they're crap, y'all such victims of marketing hype... these frames are made by the same people using the same designs as the models sold under popular brand names in the western world.

This is the byproduct of irresponsible outsourcing, our copyrights don't count over there and they can sell the frames they make for American/Canadian companies to anyone who they please, they do the designs in the first place!
  • 1 0
 This is true with one very small yet major difference. A bike frame with a snazzy sticker slapped on as it was said above usually employs a great deal of quality control. There are many reviews of frames, forks, seatposts, wheels, etc. ordered from china only to have a fatal manufacturing flaw...there seems to be decent follow-up but it is not a short process. I'd prefer to have some confidence in my purchases even if all I get for my extra 50% is a sticker and some QC.
  • 2 0
 Intense is one of the few major brands that can say "oo oo oo not us!"
  • 10 0
 Some of you really have no idea how this works. Its been said a few times, but these arent Session or KHS knock offs, theyre often the original design and that design is now no longer protected by copyright laws or it has been licensed to the above companies, so it can be duplicated, perhaps even improved. Look at Carreras Banshee full sussers. Theyre pretty much a straight copy of Konas Stinky from about 10 years ago, with a couple of very minor tweaks. Kona licensed the design to Halfords, and Halfords wanted it because it meant they had a good platform with very little in the way of design cost. thats why they were so cheap. This is what happens. I don't hear anybody complaining about how pretty much every single BMX frame is designed from a single template. What Im reading above is a lot of thinkly disguised racism of the, 'oh look, the chinks have ripped americans off!' variety.
  • 10 0
 guys, astro isnt a copy. astro is the original. thats why ctm looks like a khs. khs and ctm (and many other brand) buy frames off thes shelves from astro.
  • 7 0
 The thing with bike designs is there are only so many designs that will work effectively, I don't hear anyone complaining that mx bikes all look the same, which they pretty much do.
  • 7 0
 bikeporn level 999999. I know they are pretty much copies, but I really dont care!!! they look fabolous!!!
  • 1 0
 but they often do "copy" engineering designs pioneered by small state of the art companies and mass produce so they become available to alot more people and see much more publicity... that MacMahone/Commencal design looks exactly like "Fusion-Bikes" Float-Link back from '04 and that was a copy of Suzukis "Full-Floater" suspension design from the 80s... why is X-Fusion such an up and coming suspension brand? because they've been building forks/shocks for the likes of Fox etc. R&D done elsewhere, they hop on the wagon and take it from there... nothing really wrong with that, just sayin'
  • 1 0
 Nearly all bike brands in the western world have bikes/frames produced in the far east, even the small brands. The cost of setting up manufacturing in the west is huge compared to out there, so why not. Keeps the price down a little for us in the end really.
  • 1 0
 I work for a small us machine shop and do custom machining and fab. I still appreciate my cove, my std may be a bit archaic but I have so much fun on that bike and I know how it was built. Most major companies are nothing but investor-owned bs who are completely out of touch with the riding community.
  • 7 3
 That silver bike looks like a commencal v3
  • 13 40
flag WestCoastRider7 (Mar 21, 2013 at 16:43) (Below Threshold)
 looks like a trek session
  • 20 5
 stahhhp with the session business pleeeassseeee
  • 2 1
 yea wow!!!
  • 24 1
 It's Taipei's "Srek Tression"
They do their best not to break copyright laws.
  • 10 9
 2 years ago I found those trek comments amusing...
  • 9 0
 Yeah! I love all the Sreks especially the Lashs, Umblefishr, and Taches!
  • 4 0
 Yes, the "Srek Tression". It's the bike equivalent of that tattoo of Chinese symbols on your shoulder blade that you think says "Great Warrior" but actually says "Whiteboy can't read".
  • 4 0
 the kenises looks like a turner fro acouple yaers ogo
  • 7 0
 Type that fast did we ?
  • 1 0
 Hahaha so many errors lol
  • 1 0
 lots of new brands and frames - I just can't see where the market is at for this stuff - we're already saturated with options and seasonal deals on all sorts of priced frames and completes
  • 3 0
 Uh how many places can you put a rear shock till it looks like a different bike brand
  • 1 0
 Trek session Trek session Trek session Old specialized demo Trek session Trek session Giant glory Trek session Trek session Trek session Trek session... Good to see how original companies are these days
  • 2 0
 no body else think the Propain looks like a NS ??
or is it just the colour ?
  • 1 0
 @boo86. As with the ol' Transformers cartoon, there's more than meets the eye there. For instance, NSs doesn't have a virtual pivot suspension system.

Gosh, I just can't believe how many pepole can't get past the frame shape/color when they look at a bike...
  • 3 0
 ...but it's green
  • 1 0
 So is yoda, yet I'm not seeing the similarities..
  • 1 0
 yoda WAS green, rememebr he's from 'a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away''
  • 1 0
 are these the taiwanese brands that produce the bikes for most other manufacturers?
I mean the CTM is actually a Summun (Mondraker) , the Kinesis looks awfully similar to the Nukeproof Scalp.

Its kind of interesting..
  • 2 0
 lol....nukeproof is most definitely bought from the catalogue...and probably made by kinesis....mondraker will fall in to that bracket too. the bike industry is a little like the insurance industry.........no insurance company has a standard way of doing things but every insurance out of the 1000s of companies out there are owned/underwritten by only a few big players.
bike tyres are the same...... how many tyre companies are there? did you know there the vast majority of brands are made by a handful of singularly owned factories. vittorria/geax are the only large brand who make tyres only for themselves. Even the mighty maxxis tyres are made by cheng shin tyres
  • 3 1
 CRC bought an iconic brand name, licensed a frame design from a catalog, slapped the brand name on it, and made a mint selling them fanboys with rich parents.

I personally think it's great. CRC is able to sell direct to consumers at a lower price point than the "traditional" brands.
Hopefully price pressure created by their new business model will force everyone to drop prices. As the market gets more efficient, prices are forced down.

"Brands" who buy frame designs from Taiwanese manufacturers and resell them for the same prices as a Trek or Giant are hiding behind the price protection they are afforded by the big brands. It's reverse market engineering.

I think what CRC is doing with Nukeproof is going to change the whole industry for the benefit of the consumer.
  • 2 3
 The price pressure from places like CRC forces out innovation and places where you can test and buy innovative bikes. If everyone buys an off the shelf bike from a company who don't sell through local bike shops the customers are the ones who lose out in the long run when there are no new frame designs to ride and no bike shops to buy them from. Building something excellent is not cheap. Building something mediocre on a large scale is.
  • 2 0
 @Patrick9-32: You clearly work at a bike shop.

If you're saying that the Nukeproof's that CRC sells and all other catalog bikes are, "mediocre", I would have to disagree with you. I also think you are looking at this backwards.

These manufacturers are the ones who are really driving innovation. A company like CRC taking a design from a catalog, testing it, refining it and selling it direct to consumers is the definition of market innovation. The fact that World Cup level riders like Sam Hill are willing to risk life and limb on one is a testament to how innovative and good they are.

There are only so many suspension/frame designs out there and the innovation these days is really in strength and durability as well as the components...not in some ground breaking new suspension design.

When was the last time you saw some ground breaking new innovation in mountain bike suspension design? There hasn't really been one in quite a few years as companies subtley tweak and improve their existing designs. The innovations are in the shocks and components themselves.

90% of the people who purchase bikes have no idea what they're looking at and will continue to rely on bike shops due to the inequity of information available to them...this is what bike shops rely on other than the service end of it.

Think about the auto industry at the dealer level. If you're an informed buyer, you go into the dealership with more information than the sales person and know exactly what you're getting and exactly how much you should pay for it. You even know exactly what the dealer pays for the car. The inequity of information at the sales level of purchasing a car has disapeared.

The same thing will happen in the bike industry...but I'm sure your local shop will be fine.
  • 2 0
 The Nukeproof is one of sevral variations of the same product. The Tzar Bomba, Nukeproof, Transition and many others are all based on the same basic design. The manufacturer picks the tubing profiles, leverage ratios, fine tunes the geometry angles, but its all based on the same design.
  • 2 0
 thats a complicated one me thinks, as you are both right. As a whole, prior to canyon / YT industries / nuke proof, buying a decent bike meant getting ripped off in terms of material gain. CRC and the likes are definitely going to change the way the market works.

as for innovation....other than material choice and drive system, i personally don't think there is going to be much gain anymore. but the way the market works will always mean new and different stuff coming out from Taiwan to keep consumerism up...i mean for gods sake how much better can toothpaste or bleach get since 1950....TV adverts would have you believe every year has seen an evolution with no bounds. I think it will come and go in waves of years.....for a while we will be buying cheap well priced well working bikes, then folk will start to want something different and unique and the likes of intense and yeti etc will become popular and on goes the cycle....pardon the pun........it will be interesting to see how the newer fork companies deal with the hugely overpriced (but lovely working) big 3
  • 1 2
 @donch15 don't kid yourself, even giant are produced in Taiwan. Kinesis make them and have done for many years. And I bet trek and specialized do as well but due to the massive volume they deal with they can demand unique tubesets and geo.
  • 1 0
 @mega-turtle: Considering almost every bike on the planet is produced in Taiwan...no shit Sherlock.

The difference is, Giant OWNS the factory...and several others.

They, and the other big boys also have R&D, rapid prototyping, and manufacturing facilities in the US as well. They aren't simply picking a frame, designed by someone else, out of a catalog and slapping their name on it.

The point is, there are many companies who basically do just that and are charging the same thing for their bikes as a Trek, Giant, or Specialized who put millions of dollars into R&D and prototyping. They have no overhead, do none of their own design work, don't own anything or any facilities, and are selling bikes they had very little input in for the same price as the big boys at collosal mark-ups. CRC is going to blow them out of the water by selling direct to consumers at a lower price making no apologies and creating no smoke screens about the design and source of their bikes.

It's the evolution of the industry my friend, try and keep up.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, so next time think for a second before you open your mouth.
  • 1 2
 What the actual f**k?

I write three lines and you come back with an essay like a little spoilt girly bitch?

Take a step back and shut your pie hole.

Before jumping on your key board, do a bit of reasearch dummy, take a look at www.kinesis.com.tw

Giant dosent own the factory. They buy there framesets out a catalog like everyone else, look around the site and you'll find glorys all the way up to 2013 models.

Get a grip you adolesent 5 year old
  • 3 0
 Ha...the angry insults of a mental midget.

Just b/c someone can compose complete sentences and formulate well articulated ideas, does not make them a, "spoilt girly bitch". I literally wrote that in about 30 seconds on my iPhone.

Giant does in fact own the largest bicycle production facilities in the world.

Kinesis does not produce Giant's bicycles...but I believe it was actually founded by a former Giant employee. But, they do manufacture frames for GT, Trek, & Kona amongst several others I'm sure.

Good guess though...throw some more shit at the wall and maybe you'll get something to stick.

...and congratulations on the obvious enormity of your success.
  • 2 0
 See this is what makes me want to stop going on PB. People like you two who argue over dumb shit like this. Seriously, who cares if one of you is right or wrong, or if whatever brand owns the most factories or something? Just dont say anything if you dont have anything good to say at all.
  • 1 0
 No one's arguing...you can't argue with stupidity.

There is a rampant case of ignorance and prepubescent anger affecting PB...but don't let it scare you away. Smile
  • 2 0
 Ok well you proved me wrong Smile there are other ignorant people on here who just want to think they are correct, and it is just their opinion they are speaking of. It was the other guy who Is really the immature one, not you, but it is just so annoying when people argue over stupid things trying to prove they are correct. Im happy to find that you aren't one of those people Smile
  • 3 0
 The chrome one is looking pretty good though!
  • 4 1
 Green one looks like Zink's new Walmart bike!!!
  • 1 0
 eh ? Zink's Walmart bike is a hardtail, the green one is full sus, am I missing something here ?

www.pinkbike.com/news/Hyper-Cam-Zink-Edition-Now-Available-at-Walmart.html
  • 2 1
 Sarcasm man haha
  • 2 0
 kinesis looks like a DHR kinda. But yeah I think its funny how repeative some companies are.
  • 1 0
 It's a linkage-driven single pivot, while the Turner uses DW-Link.
  • 2 3
 Well these show similarity to known bikes. Those who know have the trained eye to see that these wont follow the same function as the original. They may neither be made of the same grade aluminum or proper heat treated, which rises the question about durability. Magic of engineering genious is lost somewhere between the copy and paste. And yes... lots of people will get fooled to get one. Companies known for quality stand for their names as for their customers. Cheap imitations of the original...
  • 4 0
 These are the originals. The "brand name" ones are the copies. Well, not really copies. They are rebranded.
  • 1 2
 These things are made on a production line. If the heat treatment for a batch is shortened by half an hour, then the manufacture costs a bit less. Who cares if the failure rate goes up, since you don't have a reputation to uphold anyway? And additionally what is a manufacturer to do with a batch of bikes where the sample failed quality control? I'm not saying there is anything dodgy going on here, this article is the first I've heard of these brands, but I can't dismiss krisdaphrk's comments.
  • 1 0
 dont care about what you say.. I want that macmahone in raw - please! ASAP. And btw, they have been around waaaay longer than commencal with the slack design!
  • 1 0
 if you buy an adrenaline agent, so you buy a groupset, Fox Fork and rear shock with any expensive part + bonus a frame with cheap price
  • 2 0
 Rob Dunnet, Please learn how to use the white balance on your camera, thanks
  • 2 0
 Mmm I'd buy that adrenaline. Looks like a good bike to ride at night. It has reflectors and everything.
  • 1 0
 Yeah thats what sold me on it too, because i would never buy a bike without reflectors or blinking lights to show how hairy my vagina is
  • 2 0
 Kermit the frogs Propain bike on display
  • 2 0
 Several... cool designs..
  • 4 2
 "a Chinaman pissed on your f*cking rug, dude"
  • 3 0
 And Dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature!
  • 1 2
 It's from a movie dude.
  • 1 0
 Yeah dude... Dude totally dude
  • 1 0
 shut the fu@k up Donnie, you're out of your element
  • 1 0
 All from that same catalog that's why..........and i bet it's got giant written in the front hahahaha
  • 2 0
 They all look like sessions .
  • 1 0
 ^^ What he said ^^
  • 2 0
 Chinese and Taiwanese Brands? Cool. USA-Made prices? Not cool.
  • 1 0
 adrenaline agent : groupset+Fox fork and rear shock. Bonus : a frame with cheap price
  • 2 0
 Is this catalog available online???
  • 2 0
 Lots of colours! Wow!
  • 13 3
 its like we're f*cking 4-year-olds Blank Stare
  • 7 1
 There's nothing wrong with a colorful bike. You don't ride your bike in a suit, do you?
  • 10 2
 Y'know, I used to ride in a suit but I never really liked how restricting it was. I decided to ride naked one time and haven't looked back since. I usually practice high speed nose manuals when not suited up, extra style points.
  • 3 0
 Yeah so you'd be more happy if all the bikes where black or raw aluminium?

C'mon without so vivd colors the bikes would look just boring and not attractive....
  • 3 0
 i don't need my night riding lights any more if I'm going to get the Propain
  • 1 0
 "You can have any color you want as long as it's black"- PIMP. F@kn forever ago. can't go wrong.
  • 1 0
 I have a p-bike - so yah, I agree. I'm just saying, if our first response to new stuff is 'pretty colors!' then we sort of sound like 4 year olds and not people interested in the technology (which is the only really important thing here when it comes down to it).
  • 1 0
 Love that Propain... you can tell it's German Big Grin
  • 1 0
 Whats the name of that magazine?
  • 3 0
 it is not a magazine, it is a huge book called the TBG, can be hard to get, it is an industry privilege.
  • 1 0
 I haven't even heard of some of these bike brands!
  • 1 0
 Ill take that Astro and ride the shit out of it... looks sweet
  • 1 0
 Buy a KHS...they're fancy new DH bike is straight out of the Astro catalog.
  • 2 2
 Stop wasting your time drooling over these bikes. All you need is a Remedy! ; p
  • 1 0
 Has anyone made the joke 'Mons, I'd ride that,' yet?
  • 1 0
 That blue and black Astro is neat looking. Isnt that also a khs.
  • 1 0
 What's the price difference on these bikes
  • 2 0
 11
  • 1 0
 They sure look like a whole lotta nothing with no name brand on them
  • 1 0
 "KillMeister". Ha, ha, ha...
  • 2 0
 I like that name.
  • 1 0
 Anyone know, what rims are used on that green PROPAIN???
  • 2 0
 Look like Sixpack Kamikaze... German Brand. sixpack-racing.com
  • 1 0
 thx RASCHAA, found it
  • 1 0
 Hi all, does anyone know what pedals are on the green propane?
Cheers.
  • 1 0
 Sixpack Icon see 2 posts above
  • 1 0
 That MK DH frame is as sexy as they come
  • 1 0
 definitely going to need those reflectors...
  • 1 0
 The Mabone is a f*cking replic of the Commencal V3
  • 1 0
 Show me a rebadged GT full sus bollock brains.
  • 1 0
 American bikes , European Bikes, Canadian Bikes ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!
  • 1 0
 THAT IS SO SO SO TRUE.
  • 1 0
 everything awesome, perfect!! congratulations
  • 1 0
 Pretty nice.
  • 8 9
 Adrenaline Agent = Demo 9
CTM Mons 20 = KHS
MacMahone = Commençal Supreme V3
Kinesis = Commençal Supreme v2
  • 8 4
 Adrenaline Agent = Banshee ( they even say so in the caption )
Mons = Mondraker
Kinesis = Turner DW-ish, it's NOT a single pivot.
  • 10 2
 E-EEEH!
Try again:
Adrenaline Agent = Banshee Legend
CTM Mons = KHS
Macmahone = Commençal Supreme V3
Astro = Some sort of Cubist/Bauhaus dog's breakfast
14MK-DH = Couldn't think of anything soooo... trek?
Propain = LEGO
Taokas = Chode
Kinesis = Commençal Supreme v2 + something else... not sure
  • 1 0
 14MK-DH = morewood makulu.
  • 1 4
 These bikes are all knock-offs or derivatives of something else. They're all made in the same factories and copies of the same designs. They make them for nothing and we take out loans to buy them.
  • 17 1
 ^ I think you have that backwards...these are not the knock-offs they are the originals ...many of your favorite bike brands are made by these factories hence the catalog and the reference to starting your own bike company. Anyone with some disposable income can start a bike or component company by simply picking frames and parts out of a catalog from a factory and just slapping your own graphics on it.
  • 4 0
 Thank you, PearlJamSoCal. You are absolutely correct. If you guys want to be disenchanted by anyone, then it should be directed toward the company that buys these frames, puts their stickers on it, and sells it for several times the cost.
  • 1 0
 Kinesis frame looks like a Labyrinth...
  • 2 0
 I'd love for somebody to show me a knock of Ibis Mojo HD or a knock off Santa Cruz V10c.
  • 1 0
 @scriz: the Kinesis is a linkage-driven SP. Take a closer look at the second photo.
  • 1 0
 The Mojo and Santa cruz are built in Taiwan or somewhere in Aisa. If you pay enough, you get exclusive rights to the design, at least for a certain period of time.
  • 2 0
 lol, his face says it all
  • 1 0
 Propane 3
  • 1 3
 Attack of the Clones
  • 2 1
 Don't U know most of the bikes designs in China & Taiwan. Then they sale the designs to major "bike manufacturers"? That's why they looks similar or clone.
  • 1 1
 Saying that most companies do this is a generalization.

Not all bike makes do this outsourse and buy off the shelf. Many such as, Specialized, Trek, Santa Cruz at others do the design, engineer test and , R & D their new bikes in house. Check out the Specialized Skunk Works program, or the Trek design center in So Cal to see that they just don't order from a catalog and slap some stickers on them
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