Video: Luca Cometti vs Special Edition 951 Evo DVO

Sep 23, 2014 at 21:50
by Intense Cycles  
Views: 32,351    Faves: 152    Comments: 6





82 Comments

  • 132 10
 Now I have to watch some XC to get rid of this boner.
  • 50 5
 I have a quicker solution, imagine it with 29" wheels.
  • 9 8
 and male spandex , ewww x(
  • 13 1
 Unless we're talking about watching Xc with Emily Batty.
  • 1 7
flag shredright (Sep 25, 2014 at 3:11) (Below Threshold)
 Stfu about your little boner. Gross colours on the bike. Hit me!
  • 1 0
 Are you awake?
  • 2 0
 Wrong post sorry
  • 22 1
 Sick Bike!!! Disgusting price tag!
  • 26 3
 with great bike, comes great price
  • 41 7
 When you can buy a KTM 500exc for the same price as a new bike, then you know the bike industry is sticking it to us.
  • 24 13
 Its scale people... KTM makes ONE size motorcycle for each model, and produces thousands upon thousands of them each year with very few changes to the basic frame for probably ten years or so... bicycle frames are lucky to go five years before being re-designed, and have to be produced in a myriad of sizes for different riders and in much smaller numbers.
  • 22 6
 Myriad of sizes? They usually do have three sizes. But I think you are missing the big picture. Motor cycles have motors, real drivetrain. Bicycles don't. There is no way bicycles costs the price of a motor cycle or Dacia such as there is no way my brake pads costs the price of a car brake pads. Soon or later this madness will end.
  • 47 8
 as a KTM employee I can tell you that our engines and frames change every 2-3 years...try just designing a new engine, as apposed to sticking a couple of tubes together, which is basically all there is to a mtb, take a couple more tubes and you have indeed a ktm-frame yes, but instead of frame sizes, we have different engines that differ slightly more than cutting a tube a bit shorter of longer. Do not forget R&D, we have around 300 people now, that is probably as much as all of the bicycle frame designers together (just guessing).

Conclusion, the bike industry has it right...selling less for a lot more Smile

(also: most of our parts are made in Austria and neighbouring countries...not Taiwan)
  • 26 1
 @zojdson - could you please tell KTM to make their bicycles cheaper if they are so easy to design.
  • 8 1
 I work for the motorcycle company, apart from the logo we have nothing in common with the bicycle-company..
I do have a KTM DH bike...hot-tip: there are better bikes out there for that money! this obviously doesn't count for the motorized KTMs Wink
  • 13 4
 From a friend in the business, a typical bicycle shop (with industry average sale volume) made a 80-100% retail (gross) margin over bicycle from the 1500~5000$ range, meaning for a 5000$ bicycle he earns in average 2000 to 2500$. I was told that the production cost of a full sus frame (incl. shock) for one of the big three brand is around 300$.

For comparaison, usual average gross margins for goods retail business are around 17 to 18%. In automotive industry, around 5%.
It gives an idea of the real cost of our bicycles. The price they cost is the market price, i.e., the price we accept to pay for, not the cost they really worth.
  • 3 1
 My bad, please read "unit margin" instead of "gross margin" for all my former comment.
  • 5 1
 I will however not say what the margin on accessoires and spare parts is Wink
  • 7 1
 Every moto company changes several things to their bikes every year FYI. From mini bikes to the top. And lets not forget the vital piece of the motor which now a days has so much technology. Your crazy if you even try to give the mtn industry an argument on pricing a PEDAL bike more than a new motorbike
  • 4 2
 gnralized, that production cost might be accurate, but it wouldn't include development which is what we pay for in mountain biking. From every single person I have ever spoken to in bike retail those margins you've quoted are utter rubbish.

Everyone winges that they can't afford what is essentially a formula 1 car of bicycles. The great thing about this sport is there are many many lower end bikes with 90% of the performance for 50% of the money.
  • 5 1
 Nope - i still want the best bicycle for max $2000
  • 2 0
 Gnralized hit the nail on the head. Moto shops make single digit % markup on bikes. Take a snowmobile for example - the sell for 11k and the dealer cost on them is around 10,600. Motorcycles are even less.


I used to work at FLY Racing in college trying to get the MTB department off the ground. FLY is a Moto brand and structured their pricing off moto shops - 35% margin. Most Bicycle shops wouldn't even talk to me since we weren't keystone (50% margin).
  • 4 2
 If you dont like the prices, blame the marketing nerds. I'd love to sit in the exec's seat and see just how much goes to each allocation. R&D, labor/benefits, materials sourcing, QC, infrastructure, marketing, distribution, etc. There's more to it than HURR DURR TOO MUCH MONEH.
  • 2 1
 Surely ktm have a much larger budget for R&D compared to small bike companies though?
  • 2 2
 The thing with moto is that weight doesn't matter as much. In biking there's so much money in buying machines to create a part, deciding they don't like the part, repeat. Then they have to machine something to be as light as possible and as strong as possible
  • 5 0
 I'm not an engineer, but bike frame geometry is not rocket science. The same basic design has been around for years. Engineers tweak it here and there, but the same basic principles will always exist. R&D is not their biggest expense, it's tooling. Once the tooling is done, let the profits start rolling in. I know the numbers from a friend who has done business in China where carbon frames and parts are produced for most bike manufacturers. A $3000 frame cost a manufacturer $110 complete with packaging.
swallow that!
  • 3 4
 And has to be paid for ahead of time, and then has to be shipped overseas, distributed, re-assembled, inspected.... when you buy a new car, the PDI charge is usually added on to the sticker price of the car, along with one for freight, and if you have to dealer finance it, you have a bank fee charge also. But again, the market shows what prices consumers will pay, and that's REAL consumers, the ones actually spending money, not the ones whining on web forums about prices for stuff they haven't the money for and weren't seriously going to buy anyway.

As to R&D and frame geometry isn't rocket science type comments... if you folks are so smart... why not put up the money and start your own brands ?
  • 2 0
 As to R&D and frame geometry isn't rocket science type comments... if you folks are so smart... why not put up the money and start your own brands ?

Precisely because bikes are leisure industry and when you are smart, there are better business than leisure industry ;-)
  • 1 0
 People forget that finance is a huge part of the motor industry. Ford makes zero profit on their trucks much of the time, but they make huge margins on the loans you take when you finance through them. I doubt the MTB industry will ever do the same model since people can still manage to fit a whole bike on one credit card or income tax refund. Instead you will continue to see pricing based on demand for innovation and materials. As for bikes changing little and the engineers not being scientists, I have a 5 year old bike that has a steep head angle, came with a narrow bar, and has all qr wheels. Bikes change very fast.
  • 4 3
 @deeeight You sound like the typical Bike Manufacturer trying to make us believe that bike prices are justified. lets break it down, 10K for a new V10. Frame $110.00. $9890.00 to go… I'm listening...
  • 2 2
 $9000 of that covers the decales on th fox 40
  • 4 2
 $110 frames are things like the cheap carbon hardtails you see on ebay for $240... its not what it really costs to make a $3000 retail frame and if you truly believe that then I have some swamp land for sale that's sure to go up in value. The bread and butter sales in the bike world are the $1000 and under models. Most real stores will sell hundreds of such bikes versus a handful of the premium models that get reviewed in magazines.

@Taletotell... you're on the ball. Ford only JUST brought extensive use of aluminum to the construction of the latest generation of F-150 truck, and its helped shed 700 pounds from its curb weight. They did that largely because making them lighter was about the only way they'd see any sort of meaningful improvements in fuel economy which they HAVE to do to meet government CAFE standards (which go up every year), and if they don't, the penalty is $5.50 USD per 0.1 MPG over the limit they are TIMES the total number of units across their whole vehicle fleet produced that year in the US market. If Ford misses their target number by say, 0.3MPG, and produced a million total cars and trucks, that means they're on the hook for 16.5 million dollars. Their actual total US sales in 2013 was 2,493,918 units.
  • 3 1
 Cool edit, liking Snow Summit. Sorry to ruin these reply's but I just watched a video
  • 1 0
 @deeight

"that's REAL consumers, the ones actually spending money, not the ones whining on web forums about prices for stuff they haven't the money for and weren't seriously going to buy anyway"

Yeah, talkin'bout the "REAL" consummers, those 10% golden 50+ week-end warriors living in 10+ million people towns and heap up their 9k$ + DH carbon bikes close to their 50k$+ cars in their 500k$ + houses...

I don't think you are something close to the REAL consummer, given the fact that the Canadian median income per capita is 40k$/year before taxes... 1500 to 3000$ bike consummers are the REAL consummer.
  • 4 0
 @deeeight My buddy worked for Cervelo in product development, a top road bike manufacturer. He gave me a carbon road bike frame for free. I asked what do I owe you? He said its on me, we can produce that $3500 frame for $110. The bread and butter money goes to the manufacturer, the scraps are fought for by the bike shops. BTW the bike industry loves people like you, buying at full pop because they don't know any better.
  • 1 2
 Who ever said I pay retail or full pop for anything, I haven't paid retail on bike stuff in decades now. I buy stuff at pennies on the dollar in many cases. I'm well known locally as someone shops can move out inventory thru without needing to resort to scrap metal recyclers (and in some cases that is exactly what they end up doing with all the OEM part take-offs they have from bike fittings). The Ottawa/Gatineau region leads the country and probably the continent on the highest number of premium bike stores per capita. Counting both sides of the provincial border and both amalgamated cities (Ottawa and Gatineau), the population is about 1.3 million, yet we have more than forty bike stores. Not to mention the fact we've have several BRANDS originating from this area,.
  • 1 1
 @gnralized - if the margins for your local LBS are that high, everyone should open a bike shop and be rich.
  • 1 1
 A Starter Minto row home in the Ottawa area that was built in the 1970s is 200k. A "new" construction development home in one of the suburbs like barrhaven or stittsville or carp, which you can spend 45 mins to an hour commuting (by car) to and from in the morning and evening after you get off work is typically 400k to start at. In my neighbourhood (where riverfront homes start at like 1.3 million and non-river stuff starts at maybe half that) I've got as close by neighbours in this area, the co-founder of one of the largest car dealer networks in the country (google dilawri group), a former governor general of the bank of canada, a senior member of the RCMP, two NHL professional hockey players, and a host of others. Those that are into sports, spend money accordingly. National Defence is moving their headquarters out to this area onto the former Nortel property in a few years and I've sold several bikes this year to folks who are in the military, and are also shopping for homes in this area. They're not blinking at the prices in this area, or the opportunity to be someplace that still doesn't seem like its overly urban (I can literally roll down my deck, out my driveway and be onto forested singletrack in roughly 700 feet).
  • 2 0
 As to margins.... what a brand pays a manufacturer in china versus what the dealer charges the end consumer doesn't take into account all the steps in between, the insurance, the financing, the shipping, the WAIT time, etc

In actual local bike stores in canada... the mark up from dealer wholesale (what the LBS pays the distributor) to suggested retail for parts and accessories, is pretty much 100% across the country. Any customer could learn this easily by asking to look thru the retail catalog from a distributor at a shop. first few pages under ordering instructions it will say what the wholesale price is. Its not some secret or anything. Booking season prices in the fall are typically 10% less than in-season wholesale but you have to order several thousand dollars of stuff at once. For complete bicycles, the margins are rarely any better than 50% and even then you'll see more profit selling 95 $500 bikes (at $250 profit each) than 5 eye-candy $5k bikes at $2.5k profit each. For that matter, the cheap bikes don't turn your store into a target for professional thieves the way the eye-candy stuff does. We're experience a wave of organised store burglaries in this area this week, so far about 50k of bikes have been heisted from at least three shops, and several others have reported their alarms going off but having "good" neighbours who prevented the thefts from proceeding. This is just in the past 72 hours. Most likely the bikes are being driven to the port of montreal, put into shipping containers and shipped overseas.
  • 1 0
 @kleinblake every gramm does count here (for SX), as for the rest of the catalog (apart from the small Duke made in India): they are amoung the lightest motorcycles available.

@deeeight I´m actually working on my own bikes, but will not be producing them anywhere overseas though. So if my brand kicks off sometime, they will be superexpensive, but justified Wink
  • 2 0
 I was flipping through the bti catalogue a couple years back and I commented to the shop manager how expensive the wholesale was and how, if they doubled that for msrp it would be crazy. He pointed out the msrp then. It was 20% higher. He said the real profits are from bits and bobs and they only doubled the cost on crap like chain lube.
I know some people are saying Tue margins a lot higher for shops, bit I don't see it.
  • 3 0
 People will be surprised when they see wholesale compared to retail. You really only see a huge difference on suspension products and such
  • 1 0
 kleinblake - suspension products have some of the smallest margins of anything shops sell
  • 1 0
 For that matter, even if cervelo only pays $110 to the factory to build a frame, thats for a chinese made frame where the cost of living is lower and so are the wages paid to skilled trades there. A builder in the usa doing the same sort of frame will charge a brand a lot more than $110 for a carbon frame. And that doesnt even get into the components. High end shimano stuff is made in japan where it costs more to live, and some of that is reflected in the price tags of xtr parts for example.
  • 1 0
 The margin is small, but saving $300 on something that retails $1000 is more noticeable than saving $7 on something that costs $14
  • 1 0
 Saving that for a buyer is fabulous, for the seller, probably not so much. And without sellers... there's nothing for buyers to buy. I get messages weekly on ebay from buyers trying to offer less for fixed price listings, or saying my prices are too high... and I tell them that they're welcome to buy the same item from someone else who's price they like instead...EXCEPT that doesn't work when I'm the only seller on ebay WITH that item. So its pay my price or live without my item. And the same goes for these eye-candy bikes... pay what the seller(s) want, or do without. But for everyone who whines on a web forum negatively about something expensive, there's a dozen people who have the money for that sort of bike and don't feel the need to complain about the price tag. And the brands/manufacturers know that, because they still sell those bikes. Specialized knows it so well in fact that they made a 250 run limited edition Maclaren road bike this year for $20k USD each.
  • 1 0
 @deeeight pretty much all of the high end carbon frames come from overseas. it's just too expensive to manufacture in the USA. Just because a frame is made in China doesn't mean its made with cheap materials. My Ibis is made in Taiwan and its not made with cheap carbon. I understand what your'e trying to say, there are many costs involved initially, but once the initial costs are met, the profits are very lucrative. The bike industry wants us all to believe that there just isn't a lot of profit to be made by manufacturing bikes, that might be true in selling them, but thats about it.
  • 12 3
 Producers!!! We need more gnar rock gardens and jacked up sideways roots in video's! I could take a bmx bike down those lines! If we want to see someone in the air I'll watch rampage for the 100,000,000th time! Ps. Bike looks awesome, mad props to an American company doing things in America!
  • 3 2
 Straight out! Vid was boring. Especially after www.pinkbike.com/news/video-whistler-riders-get-outta-town-2014.html.
  • 6 2
 I love how everyone is talking shit on the trails like we somehow have a choice of riding a better bike park. Snow summit is all we have down here in so cal. May not be whistler but it's all weve got
  • 1 0
 @angry Totally agree. Summit isn't whistler, but its still a lot of fun. If they keep up the progression, its going to be pretty sick in a few years.
  • 1 0
 I don't think anyone is talking crap about Snow Summit. Just the particular trail that was chosen for the edit. It would've been nice to see some technical trail ripping but it appears to be just a bunch of whips down a jump line.

Or are you guys saying that Snow Summit doesn't have any tech or gnar?
  • 1 0
 Ya that's exactly what I was saying. Snow summit is super flowy and fun and all the features are crazy sculpted, but it's not that technically challenging. Still love it considering it's so close
  • 8 1
 I really do quite like that bike. Looking forward to seeing who will be riding it in the World Cup next year...
  • 6 0
 Apparently it'll be a new carbon DH bike next year
  • 3 0
 A carbon intense Dh bike would be rad. A lot of people choose the v10 over intense because of this I know I did. Add to that the bike on the podium and I think sales will go up
  • 2 0
 I imagine that with the insane success of the t275, intense might move carbon production into the U.S., which would be sicker
  • 1 0
 ^^Bingo
  • 5 0
 WOW! Look at the way all that suspension dealt with those incredibly smooth trails. Oh wait... Nah only kidding. bike looks sick.
  • 2 0
 I'm an old nonconformist chump too! I a second owner of a pink bike bought 7yr old Foes Fly with newer parts 2012 boxxer wc air etc. changed bearings and recoated it after a ton of gnar gouges and it rides just fine off the hucks, drops and gaps still. I ain't payin that kind of money for a squishy bike because the new baskin robbins flavor happens to be ano lime green and carbon is sexy and for a 160lb lightweight rider. I am the other 80percentile of weekend gravity riders that do this for the love of flying on two wheels, not because either I have a 10k fresh piece of plastic to burn, or I am to stupid to figure out that the industry will rob me with over priced and over marketed swag.
  • 2 1
 its a huge POS. chainstay waaaaay too long especially with a vpp bike unless your 6'4". turn to turn is slow as f*ck after you get back on rear axle finishing a turn to adjust forward then back for next turn. he's a pretty good rider and the bike would go straight thru those rocks well but that's about it. more fancy paint from the has been hype machine that is intense cycles
  • 5 0
 sexual
  • 4 0
 Bikeporn...
  • 4 0
 looks like snow summit!
  • 1 0
 you know it
  • 2 0
 that place is good for the price and convenience
  • 3 0
 i think he may own one of the SICKEST looking bikes on the planet.
  • 1 0
 Are Pinkbike pushing the limits of site optimisation here? Surely you can afford the hosting costs for the last seven characters of collaboration?
  • 2 1
 I can't wait until we get one in the shop. It's been over run by red and black for years
  • 2 0
 Evo DVO, slick rhyming!
  • 2 0
 Love that bike!
  • 1 0
 "the green monster" so nice....
  • 1 0
 Alls I can say.....sexy as fuck bike!!!
  • 1 0
 Picture got the job done.
  • 1 0
 Got My 951 EVO DVO this week for 4200
  • 5 6
 It's a cool Bike and all but personally, I think it's too much... Not a Fan of too much colour and upside down Forks.
  • 1 0
 hear, hear !
  • 1 0
 the flow is good
  • 1 0
 Song?
  • 3 5
 Wtf wow - if someone put up a video of me like that I'd punch them in the mouth.
  • 4 1
 the f*ck are you even talking about? you'd punch someone in the mouth for filming you ride at the only bike park in SoCal to advertise for the company you're sponsored by? you're a chump
  • 1 0
 you a shredder eh?

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