Christchurch Adventure Park ‘Bro Zone’ Renamed ‘O-Zone’ Following Social Media Backlash

Dec 8, 2021 at 4:43
by James Smurthwaite  

A new riding area at New Zealand’s Christchurch Adventure Park has been renamed the O-Zone following a social media backlash.

The O-Zone is a new pro jump area built for the park by Billy Meaclem and his digging crew. The new trails were originally called the Bro Zone when they soft-opened in November but the name change was confirmed by the park on December 3 and took place yesterday.

The Bro Zone name was criticized as it could discourage women riders from the pro area of the park. Detractors voiced their concerns on social media and the name was even questioned by Rosara Joseph, a silver medallist in the women's mountain bike event at the 2006 Melbourne Commonwealth Games.

The Park posted the news on social media,

bigquotesAfter customer feedback, we have decided to re-name “Bro Zone”. Irrespective of personal opinions we acknowledge our initial naming missed the mark despite our best intentions for this space. After talking as a group we have settled on “O-Zone”.

O-Zone references the many Ooooooooh moments the space will create along with being a jump track relates to being high in the sky, above the ground like the atmosphere.

The re-name of 'Bro-Zone' to 'O-Zone' will be in place by Tuesday.

Furthermore, we are working towards renaming “Lil Bro”…. currently in the front running Tatao which is Te Reo for younger brother, sister or firstborn child…. The mini version of “O-Zone”.
Christchurch Adventure Park


We commend Christchurch Adventure Park for rectifying the exclusionary name and allowing women riders to feel more welcome on all of the park's trails. This isn't the first time offensive trial names have been changed including recent high profile incidences in Kelowna and on the North Shore. The Park has been contacted for further comment.


634 Comments

  • 816 117
 First world problems, everyone is offended by everything, what a time to be alive.
  • 96 38
 Fahrenheit 451, here we come!
  • 183 17
 I'm offended that you're not offended! Wink
  • 134 30
 Every"one"....not proper, as we are not "one"....very offensive, please say Every"person" since we are all individuals, I'll be reporting you to the mods.



Smile
  • 329 34
 Lets repaint all signs so they read Ho Zone. Protective Gear Recommended
  • 44 6
 I find YOU offensive, for finding ME offensive.
  • 46 8
 Bro, this is so lame Bro!
  • 91 17
 Sucks when everything has to be "politically correct".
  • 65 13
 As a celibate person of the cloth, I am highly offended by the name O-Zone, as the suggests sinful behavior, and therefore is a crime in the eyes of the lord!! I used the word person as I don't see gender... Or color... or shapes!
  • 54 17
 Stuff like this makes me vomit. But I can't write that. Someone could feel offended. So I won't write anything..
  • 76 12
 @CSharp: But it doesn't have to be. People just cave to this BS. Social media is a cancer. To quote Dave Chappelle, "Twitter isn't a real place". The same goes for FB etc.
  • 10 4
 @PA-MTB: I am offended that you are offended by someone not being offended...or I guess I should not be offended at you being offended by someone not being offended.
  • 23 2
 @carters75: Are you implying the PB comment section is not a real place?
  • 5 3
 @carters75: I'm totally with you on this one, bro!
  • 21 4
 lol who gives a shit! shoulda called it whoa-zone!
  • 62 188
flag not-really (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:34) (Below Threshold)
 Obviously you are not a woman. The least you could do is to try to understand the importance of the issue. Words matter a lot.
  • 80 13
 @not-really: assuming someone's gender are we?
  • 33 17
 @not-really: You don't have to be a man, woman, or a kid to enjoy the trail (if you can ride it). Just ride it and enjoy it rather than to criticize the name for political correctness. It's almost like criticizing the works of art from Leonardo Di Vinci on his masterpiece, Mona Lisa, and saying the name should be changed to Leonardo because it's discovered it was a slight resemblance to his face.
  • 21 5
 amen, and awoman!
  • 51 13
 @not-really: words do not matter one bit if you don't let them matter. get a f*cking grip.
  • 33 168
flag not-really (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:45) (Below Threshold)
 @wburnes: is pretty easy to assume he is a white dude too lazy to be bothered to look into issues regarding inclusion, one being the language that you use to name a trail that assumes that certain trail is for the exclusive use of -surprise- white dudes like him who call each others bro. But that's not an issue because what do you care if it doesn't bother you
  • 39 113
flag not-really (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:47) (Below Threshold)
 @CSharp: inclusion is not the same as PC. It has nothing to do with each other. And I don't know what did you smoke to come up with that Leonardo thing that barely makes any sense
  • 29 8
 Who is offended? The article just says the name was criticized on social media. As in "that is about the dumbest effing name I can think of." O-zone is far more clever for a jump line, especially since it is a vaguely subtle double entendre.
  • 76 12
 MIND IS ABSOLUTELY BLOWN! WOW! I know of a LOT of female riders-- who don't give a RIP about this name and would be stoked to just ride the trail. this type of mindset is centered around ignorance and insecurity-- it cannot sustain itself and will implode and it won't be pretty when it happens... the most informed, educated, innovative global collective society to have ever lived, and here we are wasting time, energy, resources, emotions, etc.. into stuff like this as IF it has the deep effect of moving all of us closer together and further. this energy needs to be redirected into greater things and the lesser will fall into their right places naturally with fighting each other-- just NUTZ!
  • 78 15
 Why not hoe zone? Because ya know, you need hoes to build trails
  • 33 9
 @not-really: thanks for interjecting race into this! it tells everyone where you come from......
  • 31 12
 @makripper: I GOT HOEs.........IN DIFFERENT BIKE PARK ZONES.......
  • 2 1
 @Burnhardx: OMG yes LOL
  • 4 4
 @conoat: "Now you thought I was just 770, and 404, I'm world wide b*%#h, act like y'all don't know..."
  • 42 12
 @not-really: Dude it's the name of a trail not border control. Maybe they should rename whistler bike park as there are people who can't whistle and what about their feelings?
  • 14 8
 Bro's, Ho's and Kiddo's Now everyone is included.
  • 2 1
 @PA-MTB: or are you offended that they’re passively offended. Or offended just because others are offended. Let’s face it. Everyone is offended about everything. Especially those people who think pineapple on pizza is weird. I’m offended they’re offended in my offense to their offense.
  • 25 3
 There is a trail in my neck of the woods called "Brazilian" which I have no problems going down and am certainly not offended by its name... It can get slipper though.... especially if its wet.
  • 2 2
 @konafarker: Slick as a wax job! Big Grin
  • 15 108
flag not-really (Dec 8, 2021 at 12:58) (Below Threshold)
 @conoat: oooh is the poor white old misogynist getting offended?
  • 2 3
 @Burnhardx: you sir have just won the interwebs for the day
  • 15 5
 A social media backlash?!? Does that mean like a couple hundred comments out of the billions of accounts worldwide? If you built the trail call it whatever you want, and it offends you that much dont ride it.
  • 17 3
 Next trail will be uber sensitive & include helpful educational graphics to protect unsuspecting children from toxic masculine Bro's in the O ZONE.

It will be called the NO NO ZONE
  • 12 5
 @not-really: not really
  • 16 5
 In Canada - the government media (CBC) is running articles saying you cannot use the term "first world problem". Things are getting a little crazy.... BRO
  • 9 4
 @not-really: most down voted comment
  • 4 1
 And you’re offended by this.
  • 22 89
flag not-really (Dec 8, 2021 at 13:46) (Below Threshold)
 @carl-chaboss: largely by snowflakes who are insulted by anything that challenges their privilege
  • 17 9
 @not-really:

How did this get soooooo much negative props? Some Bro’s must be REALLY upset.
  • 28 8
 @not-really: we built it and maintain it we get to name it. STFU and ride
  • 17 20
 You simply wouldn't be commenting that if you were a young female who'd ridden alone at bikeparks.
  • 4 7
 @blowmyfuse: now show us in this doll where your creepy uncle bro touched you
  • 2 3
 @Intensevp: well played sir
  • 8 5
 @not-really: did you just assume my gender?
  • 6 4
 @CSharp: they are a noisy postmodern cult
  • 1 2
 @conoat: obviously not many Luda fans on here... face palm...
  • 5 6
 Right!?

And what about me?!

You see, them being offended is actually greatly offending me!

They apparently have different opinions than I do and I'll have you know that I find that very OFFENSIVE!!!
  • 9 6
 This is probably an article pushed by pinkbikes parent owners. expect more nonsense and more moderation in the comments so they can will their insane parental guidance for us evil peasants.
  • 30 16
 I don’t think many people think about what is meant by inclusion/exclusion. Less than 100 years ago many 1st world countries didn’t even let women vote.

We are backpedaling against years of exclusion of race, gender and identity.

There are many recent high profile examples where names have been changed and it might just be symbolic but it recognises that we are being more inclusive and equal. Take for example cleavland indians who are now known as the guardians.
  • 13 11
 @enduroNZ: you fight so long for something good you become a villain and start banning words like bro. I get it man its so easy and addictive to fight against the man its just so hilarious the man these days don't think their a man at all.
  • 4 5
 @RadBartTaylor: No no no. “Every individual” or “every citizen”. I’ll even accept “every comrade”. The word “person” has “son” in it which implies gender preference.
  • 11 3
 @diggerandrider: Total waste of time and energy. That sign won’t change crap. It’s a false concession. “We changed the sign after a robust discussion. All is well.” On the other hand, maybe it’s a start.

How about this perhaps: Dudes, invite / employ the ladies to come out and dig. Then they can all, as a crew, decide on a good name. All, spend less time pissing and moaning and more time actually smashing berms and hitting jumps. Ladies, grab some shovels.
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: really
Ur kidding right
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: some people r just so uneducated
  • 1 0
 @JoshM00: lmao so good
  • 3 4
 @not-really: stfu u clearly dropped out of college
  • 2 0
 @enduroNZ: what? I thought we were talking about bros. And bros feeling hurt about being segregated into a single zone.
  • 3 0
 @Gregorysmithj1: exactly! #freethebro they deserve more than one zone
  • 1 2
 The dog and horse are offended they can't be on the trail ! " Poo Zone"
  • 3 6
 I'm a man who has periods... I'm so confused! Should I be angry?
  • 5 0
 @CaliCol: C'mon dude, I don't care where you're coming from on the issue. No need for that here.
  • 12 6
 @not-really: if a name is enough to drive people away they are not interested in the first place.
If something like this is enough hold back women I think something else ist totally WRONG.
  • 2 2
 Fav comment roundup so far.
  • 1 1
 @JoshM00: spouse. Call it hummers or something
  • 16 8
 And what about that sign color ? As a white person I feel discouraged as it clearly seem to be dedicated to black people only. Since there are no white signa and tracks I can't ride anywhere and keep riding in between tracks when at the park, this needs to change ! Also I think black people might be offended that we use this colors for signs, it clearly shows that we still consider them as slaves juste good to stay there to give directions to mostly white people this is clearly a sign of white privilege and needs to be addressed ! Signa should be gender AND race neutral !
  • 1 0
 @chunter: Right down the Memory Hole.
  • 2 1
 @dldewar: even if you made that up its golden.
  • 2 1
 @optimumnotmaximum: It is golden because it is true!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiM9N2I4I-o&t=458s

(Note -I agree with some of those woke phrases being cancelled - as per the commentators)
  • 6 5
 @JoshM00: Whiner bike park! to gain access you have to have blue hair and at least 10,000 negative props on PB!
  • 2 1
 @enduroNZ: yet the Canterbury Crusaders didn’t change their name under social media pressure. Would’ve been nice to see some conviction from CAP too
  • 6 2
 @not-really: perhaps it was built by male's so that's why it was name Bro Zone.
  • 6 3
 Maybe the comments didn't even come from a female...maybe it was a wannabe female
  • 4 4
 Pb sausage fest go brrrrrr
  • 1 1
 @CSharp: its more just like basic kindness tbh
  • 10 2
 @chmurka3rg: Why not? Sounds pretty gender neutral to me... Unless, your insinuating that rapists are male! I'm offended!
  • 1 0
 @Burnhardx: really good
  • 1 0
 @chunter: As well as animal farm
  • 4 1
 I literally know girls who call each other bro.. Like why is this a thing?
  • 3 2
 @CSharp: right? and the more everyone gives in to it the more people are going to try and get things renamed. its a damn name, why do people care so much?
  • 1 1
 @carters75: Welp. Sorry/not sorry humanity. You blithely used technology with no consideration of the consequences. Tripping all over yourselves to get your micro dose of instant gratification, your clicks, your KPI's, your impressions, your conversions, your likes. Now, you are struggling to untie the Gordian knot of ramifications only to start the cycle all over again. You finally found what you are good at.
  • 3 1
 @conoat:
Awomen you freaking heathen. /S
  • 5 5
 @jomacba: You're seriously making jokes about rape right now?
  • 5 1
 @chmurka3rg: with all due respect....I think he's pointing out the gender neutrality of it, nothing more, nothing less....
  • 5 4
 The butthurt is at a all-time high
  • 5 10
flag not-really (Dec 9, 2021 at 13:14) (Below Threshold)
 @RadBartTaylor: 93% of rapists in the US in 2019 were male. If you think there is gender neutrality to certain issues you are just another ignorant whitewashing their "bros" rape jokes
  • 6 3
 @not-really: given the definition of rape, one must ask.....how toxic has femininity gotten where 7% of rapists are women!?!?!?! wtf!
  • 8 4
 @chmurka3rg: I'm making a few jokes here to be honest. Predominantly on how you who has identified yourself as a female, who is offended by the name of a geographical location, that was likely named metaphorically not literally all while simultaneously pointing out that both men and women have historically been convicted of rape, while at the same time a large portion of rape victims are in fact male. Rape is not just a problem females have to be concerned about... It's a problem humanity needs to be concerned about.
  • 4 2
 @dldewar: makes sense banning phrases which are commonly used to critizize the woke movement- genius
  • 4 2
 @not-really: one day you will understand how statistics work. That day you will realize you are doing just the same as old far right movements: a behavior or condition to a general population cannot be inferred from a small portion of the total population. Leave your almost religious bias and ride your damn bike and read something useful so you can stop spreading made up data for ignorant people
  • 2 3
 @norfiril: what are you talking about? Most rapist are men. There is nothing to debate if this is true or not.
  • 2 5
 @not-really: stfu u such a libtard
  • 3 4
 @jomacba: But as a generality, when you factor in the centuries-long oppression of women and that 80% of the reported North American rape victims are women you can't deny women may see that verbiage as a negative. Sure, a man can be a rape victim, but there's historical and statistical context that contribute to women viewing this negatively.

Many are taking the stance that an alleged minority (which may be a bigger group than you realize since they don't want to wade into this devolving discussion) are the ones who need to grow thicker skin because words only mean what you let them mean. You can't have it both ways...if the words shouldn't matter to the offended, they shouldn't matter to you either. Why not name something with words that help more people feel better about it.
  • 4 2
 @iammarkstewart: because where do you draw the line and who gets to decide where that line is?

I don't think anybody is suggesting words do/dont matter - it's the premise that anything and everything these days can be an issue even on gender neutral words.

I'm sure there are things you do or say that a person could be offended by that you'd find "silly" while somebody is truly offended requiring you to alter your customary speech or daily rituals....do you cave any/every time or hold your ground?
  • 8 2
 @iammarkstewart: I'm not sure you fully understand my perspective. Why is it that when somebody views an issue as non gender specific, the response is along the lines of not supporting women (Or opposing gender). It's ironic how society is demanding equality, but when you look at issues that predominantly effect one race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation when you try to speak to all relating issues things quickly become exactly the opposite.
So now because I have pointed out the following.
Fact 1, the name of a place named metaphorically, not literally.
The name is just a word, and the word itself holds no weight, as you could change this word and the action would remain the same.
Fact 2, Rape itself effects everybody. It is not gender exclusive, regardless of statistics.
I could counter the argument and make accusations that society seems to deem it bad to Rape women but it's cool to Rape men?
I won't because those aren't the facts.
Ratio is irrelevant, and I would argue the point if the roles were reversed.
A life safe from crimes against humanity of all kind is everybody's right.
So to add to your point, people want equality. As you stated, you can't have it both ways. So what is it? Are men and women created equal, or are they not equal at all?
This is the problem with ideology.
  • 3 4
 @KalkhoffKiller: what you are trying to equalize here is violence or crime is affected by the gender and that’s wrong.

Is exactly the way racists use to argument: if most crimes are committed by (place your race here) then that problem is inherent to that race/condition.

Terrible oversimplification and bias
  • 2 1
 @norfiril: You are making the mistake of thinking the simple answer cannot be correct because it is simple and/or bigoted.
  • 2 1
 @wburnes: not at all. Let’s share some data to explain my point and why not-really is just repeating a message based on a misuse of statistics (“male are prone to rape and it’s a gender issue”).

He stated 93% of rapes in US are committed by males. Well according to the FBI data (publicly available) in 2019 (latest data I found) there were a total of 105030 male offenders and 143224 rape cases (fortunately the second lowest of the violent crime types) were reported (which leave us with a 73,34% of the cases perpetrated by male rapists).

Assuming there was 1 person per rape we are speaking about 105030 male rapists in a total population of 160.2 male population (according to public demographic data from US). You cannot infer a direct correlation between two variables observing 0,06% from the total population and discarding other variables. Unless you are parting from the conclusion and look for some data afterwards.

It’s not the same saying “rape is a violent crime more prone to be committed by male violent criminals” than “male are prone to rape”.

Only looking to the gender it still leave us with almost a 27% of the cases than cannot be explained using only the gender variable. Then it’s easy to assume we are discarding here more relevant variables: education, psychological condition, socioeconomic problems… in most of those males tend to be over represented as well.
  • 1 1
 I wanted to say 160.2 million
  • 2 1
 @wburnes: let’s apply the same reasoning according to data. I’ll put some examples (clearly not my opinion):

- Almost 70% of robbery under 18 years are from afroamerican people.
- 80,2% of people driving under influence are white.
- 68% of property crimes are from Caucasian people.

Are they racial issues? Can this statement be spread to the whole racial population? I expect your answer to be no.

Same reasoning same use of data, same oversimplification.

I understand people making a living of this want to continue living from pretending to fight problems. I understand some people simplify their views of the world (it’s comfortable to classify and simplify the world in some sort of good (us) vs bad (others)) but that’s believing not knowing and also it’s interest and hypocrisy not moral nor caring and sure not addressing problems.

And we were just speaking about a trail name. This scalated quickly
  • 2 3
 @jomacba: because rape is a horrible thing you f*cking idiot. Biking is supposed to be fun. You are thick as f*cking mince
  • 2 3
 @TylerG96: pretty ironic hahahahahaha you're literally here commenting on this post and yet you wonder why people care
  • 2 2
 @RadBartTaylor: He made a joke in his comment. There's no doubt about it.
  • 2 3
 @jomacba: @jomacba: Whag the hell are you on about? Why does it matter she's a woman? Its literally just you making it gender specific, at no point did she say male rape victims dont matter or are insignificant! As for your crying about a 'geographical location' being renamed, let me ask you something, have you EVER been persecuted, mistreated, judged, or treated differently for something you can't control? Please tell.
  • 3 1
 @neilpritchett: To start I think I made it pretty clear, but just to reiterate, at no point did I advocate rape.
Moving on to my second point, I feel I did a pretty good job elaborating exactly what my point was, so to ask "What the hell are you on about?" Would only provoke a redundant response.
In regards to your question about me being mistreated, judged, or treated differently for something I can't control.
To be honest, I'm fairly certain everybody has experienced that at some point in their lives.
My question to you is, are the words you speak only worth being heard if you have?
I think your question only reinforced the irony in how society continues to demand equality, but unless you belong to a specific race, religion, gender, sexual orientation which has experienced persecution when you try to speak to all relating issues things quickly become exactly the opposite.
By continuing to isolate each of these groups, you only continue to perpetuate the exact issues everybody is fighting to improve.
On that note, I'm glad my comment provoked a response. I'm glad that when it's all said and done, we continue to think and speak freely.
  • 4 1
 @jomacba: Well said. I didn’t read your previous comments, but this last one was on point. I don’t know if it’s driven by corporate mass media, social media, or something else, but this insatiable desire to label and categorize everyone into groups that highlight our differences rather than our commonalities is ridiculous and immoral and completely counterproductive.
  • 5 1
 @gnarlysipes: I appreciate it. To be honest, my words are purely objective. None of this is really based off my opinion. I'm partially playing devils advocate because I think it's too easy to jump onto some sort of bandwagon. People need to start thinking for themselves, and forming their own opinions, while being open minded to what the other side has to say. Instead it seems everybody believes everything they hear, and then instantly get triggered because somebody says or think differently. People then seem to draw a line in the sand and assume because we are in fact actually different that we are enemies.
That's not the truth.
Each and every person is, and should be equally valued.
On that note, each and every person is unique, and we all have unique skills and talents that are not equal to one another. This is what is called diversity.
I guess it comes down to that old saying, what goes up must come down.
The current "Woke" trend will eventually fade, and we can return to a point of balance in society until the next big thing rolls around.
Until then, same bat time, same bat channel.
  • 4 1
 @jomacba: I once lost a job opportunity because the “what does diversity mean to you” question came up and I answered along those lines. Diversity certainly involves race and gender but it’s so much more than that. I strive to judge people on the content of their character—I know, very unpopular these days.
  • 5 1
 @chmurka3rg: I don't know the story or the meaning behind the trail name "TheRapist" but if it's a good trail, I'll ride it and if someone asked me what the trail name is, it's "That" trail LOL. I mean, we can let things like this bother us but it doesn't have to get under our skin. If you feel so strongly against riding a trail with some offensive or derogatory name, the best thing is not to go near it. You can also talk to the trail association directly if the trail is sanctioned. However, the one thing I really oppose is the use of social media to get a small group reaction that turns negative. It's best to find out what the trail builder was thinking and why it's named that way in the first place. Who knows, maybe the trail builder thought it'd be rad and a good name at the time and may decide to change it after talking to the person. There's a lot of trails with stupid names that I can think of in my area, but I don't really care. I just go ride any given trail on any given day (if it's nice out).

I'm a little opposed to social/news media getting involved because things get blown out of proportions and people get into social shaming just because they know they have anonymity. There are many times where someone post something and local news reporters (like CBC) picks it up without any due diligence of checking if the content is legit. A good example was the Stelianos Psaroudakis incident back in 2017 where he claimed he was clotheslined on a trail. The reporter didn't do any investigations and posted the story online. Soon after that, other news outlet picked it up, followed by a Go-Fund-Me page. This thing turned out to be fake and the guy fled to Europe after getting charged with fraud and mischief. CBC did another report recently for which I'm not going to disclose here. But shit like this is misleading as I've been saying all along. When it pulls in people without any merit, shit like this can also ruin an innocent person's life.
  • 363 31
 They need to change Ladies Only too. Felt very discouraged when I saw that trail name.
  • 223 3
 You'd be really offended by Cunt Buster then
  • 115 1
 Severed Dick is a trail I will never ride.
  • 53 1
 @Caiokv: If Severed Dick is too much for you to handle, you can always bail halfway onto Shorn Scrotum
  • 74 97
flag decoverley (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:11) (Below Threshold)
 Let's prioritize making mountain bike inclusive to the under-represented groups (especially when they cost nothing) and let's cross the "men don't participate in mountain biking because of systemic barriers" bridge when we get to it.

It doesn't seem like a big deal to pinkbike commenters because we're 95% male (according to the community survey). But this is a cost-free change to make mountain biking more inclusive, and we're 95% snarky comments.

I'm sure we're having a laugh @Tmackstab @Caiokv but they've been renamed "C-buster" and "Severed-D" on all signs and maps for a reason.
  • 5 2
 @Caiokv: here in the states we would call that the John Wayne Bobbitt trail.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt
  • 12 0
 Now, let's not even talk about Sex Boy or Sex Girl...
  • 19 1
 My favorite trail name was Thunder Cunt. Oh Canadians
  • 51 3
 @decoverley: I don't really care that they changed the name but trail names are often abstract. Samurai Pizza Cat is not a criteria for who can ride the trail. It's not exclusionary for people who aren't or don't like Samurai Pizza Cats. People don't think Ladies Only is a statement on who can ride the trail. The name change does not make mountain biking more inclusive.
  • 41 100
flag decoverley (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:33) (Below Threshold)
 @jeremy3220: it's not really about whether you or I feel the name is exclusionary. They're responding to "customer feedback". Somebody told them it made them feel excluded. It costs them nothing to change the name. If it makes one person feel even the tiniest bit more included then it's worth it.
  • 50 20
 @decoverley: grow a pair
  • 25 6
 @decoverley: Are you saying the people who see a sign that says "Bro-Zone" are the kind of people you want to attract to the sport, and by that token the MTB community should appease them when they become offended by things?
  • 45 54
flag decoverley (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:52) (Below Threshold)
 @sonuvagun: I'm saying I want more women to participate in mountain biking and we should take any opportunity we have to remove barriers to their participation.

In this case it costs nothing, they're updating the name of a trail before it even opens.
  • 7 1
 There's a trail called Schacher in Golden named after the trail builder. Everyone knows it as Shocker. How about Slunt in Fernie? Awesome trails to ride if you don't think too much about the names of the trail - just know them and ride them!
  • 35 7
 @decoverley: trust me, bro, you don't want to encourage this type - that would be so offended by "bro zone" that they can't ride the trail - anywhere near your trail system. They'll find any reason to be outraged.
  • 6 1
 @sonuvagun: perfectly said, should have read and saved my comment below. This opt-out system is a feature, not a bug.
  • 3 0
 Frontal Lobotomy and Hymen Grynder also exist
  • 32 6
 @decoverley: I feel a little excluded by your account name. Please delete it. It won't cost anything. I believe that meets all of your criteria.
  • 10 0
 @CSharp: No, it's called Schacher because the guy who envisioned it and passed away is named Sean Schacher. The trail builder didn't name it either. Anyone who has been around for a few years knows the story. Usually names have mean and it's worth thinking about them.
  • 34 4
 @decoverley: The logical implication of your words is that women are the type to take offence to anything that explicitly mentions or even hints at masculinity. In this case, you're implying women see a trail named "Bro Zone" as a barrier to their participation, which means such women have the mindset of a spoiled brat.

You have written "it costs nothing" more than once in this thread but it appears you don't understand that the word "cost" doesn't only have a financial use.

Without knowing the origin of the name it's flat out wrong (cowardly in-fact) to change such an inoffensive name. e.g. Maybe the people who built the trail were bros.
  • 3 0
 @ultimatist: Your post is more concise and communicates just as much imo.
  • 33 6
 Most of the trail names at Bike Park Wales are sexist to be fair.
Terry's belly implies men are all fat.
A470 implies women cannot count to 470.
Willy Waver implies only those with a penis (males and post-op trans males) are welcome.
Bush Whacker implies it's for alpha male sex fiends only.
Insufficient Funds implies it's men only because of the gender pay gap.
Escort... Well, again, sexist. Same with Deep Navigation.
And don't get me started on 50 Shades of Black and Blackadder - both contain the word black which is racist.
And on to the coup dear grace - Join the Dots. This trail is for women only apparently, as they are apparently much better than men at finger painting.

How do they get off naming trails in this totally un-PC way?
  • 13 40
flag decoverley (Dec 8, 2021 at 14:43) (Below Threshold)
 @sonuvagun: I'm implying that the park received feedback from at least one woman who felt that the use of a (male) gendered trail name made them feel (on some level, big or small) excluded. I believe if we can make at least one person feel more included (on some level, big or small), for the cost of reprinting a sign, then it's worth it.

I do not believe that there's a deeper meaning to "Bro Zone" that's worth defending at the cost of making someone feel excluded.
  • 28 2
 @CSharp: we have a trail here called "your mom". its f*cking pricless. What did you ride yesterday?...your mom.
  • 20 2
 @decoverley: I, like the person above, also find your name offensive and non-inclusive. Please delete it or change it. And by your own logic, that is *double* the amount needed to institute a name change. So do it, please. It costs nothing, and it's worth it.
  • 3 0
 There is a "Beach Babe" near me that has got to go
  • 19 3
 @decoverley: Noooooope. That's not how that works. You don't get to be a moralist only when you pick and choose to or when it fits your agenda. It doesn't work like that and you cant do that. Well I suppose you can, but that makes you a grade-a hypocrite.
  • 12 1
 @decoverley: are you sure it wasnt you who complained to the park?
  • 7 27
flag decoverley (Dec 8, 2021 at 16:40) (Below Threshold)
 @Chives09: I wish it was, at least then I could've affected positive change.

Instead, here I am, getting downvoted into oblivion.
  • 21 1
 @decoverley:we dont want people who get offended by “Bro Zone” to be on our trails
  • 1 1
 Scratch that, this one is far more entertaining.
  • 1 1
 Been feeling guilty sneaking on to that sweet trail. (Don’t tell my GF)
  • 14 0
 Real story here: A friend went to ride BC race about a decade ago. You need to know he is an old school xc rider with very little technical skills but strong legs and big mouth. He realized quickly that the BC marathons are not european marathons which often run on old roads and mellow singletracks but include all sorts of proper tech riding. So one day while staying in Vancouver he pedaled up mt Fromme and saw a trail called Ladies only and his first though was, wow, finally an easy trail for me! And the rest is history, he still talks how he walked all the way to the bottom to this day!
  • 2 2
 @jason475: and went back for seconds, then on my way out gave a couple lads directions so they could hit it too!

your mom is a hell of ride!
  • 2 0
 @conoat: exactly!
  • 2 0
 @winko: Hahaha that's awesome! The Funny part is Ladies Only is one of the easiest doubles out here....but she's got some gnarly parts for sure!
  • 1 0
 @decoverley: You're getting downvoted here because it's social media Karma. I think you're more interested in getting upvoted ticks or wanting to be that status of being a "social influencer" than anything. Just go out an enjoy the trails and clear your mind. You can name a trail name that you don't like in Strava to your heart's content. That way, when someone passes through that segment in their Strava activity, they'll know it by that name. But leave the original signage/given name as is. I don't think anyone wants to change their birth name just because people think the name is no good and it needs to be changed.
  • 2 0
 @SpecSRAM: Ha totally! A few years back we had to race Ladies Only in a Toonie race lol. I've never hit that teeter totter so fast in my life!
  • 3 0
 @Tmackstab: Now....Ladies' Exit on the other hand. She can be dicey.
  • 2 0
 @winko: I wonder who that was!?
  • 238 7
 He’s a dude she’s a dude we’re all dudes
  • 7 0
 This
  • 71 20
 "Male" is gendered. "bro" and "dude" are not. "Bro", In its modern form, is a non-gendered term, refering more to a good friend than a person of the male sex or gender.
  • 26 3
 @mior: sim to the term "guys" when addressing a group....
  • 21 1
 I identify as this comment
  • 4 0
 Everyone should live by the Goodburger Philosophy.
  • 5 0
 @mior: I thought ‘bro’ was an abbreviation for ‘brother’…
  • 3 1
 @cwatt: some cultures everyone is bro.
  • 6 0
 @BoobyHill: AND f*ck MONDOBURGER
  • 6 0
 this. Ladies are Bro's too!
  • 11 2
 @mior: I prefer "foo" as my gender neutral pronoun.
  • 4 3
 @cwatt: yes, but it has taken on a new meaning, like a lot of words."Finna" technically means fixing to, but now it means going to. "Awesome" used to mean of awe, like a bank robbery or even a mass murder or something generally crazy and wild. Now, it means cool. Words change meaning as people use them.
  • 4 1
 @BoneDog: Is no one going to question why one chick has multiple dicks? That's just greedy.
  • 8 1
 Right? Maybe it's just because I'm in SoCal but lady riders are called dude and bro all the time. Mountain biking is supposed to be a great equalizer. We both wearin the pants in the DH park...
  • 4 0
 @lepigpen: Yeah that's been my experience since moving here as well. It gets bad when you date a non-mtber and start calling her dude and bro lol
  • 4 0
 @BoobyHill: I moved to Colorado and call non-mtb chicks dude and bro all the time. It is so bad
  • 2 1
 @cwatt: it used to be, not anymore.
I've heard the term used by women referring to their daughters. I though it was weird, then I was told I was just old, which I am.
  • 5 25
flag CustardCountry (Dec 8, 2021 at 14:55) (Below Threshold)
 @mior: I’m pretty sure that ‘bro’ is literally an abbreviation of the word brother which is definitely male.

Once again PB User comments demonstrate what a sausage-fest the sport was/is.

Hopefully it’ll change by the time my daughter is old enough to understand.
  • 8 0
 @CustardCountry: check my other comment. the word has changed meaning
  • 3 0
 @BoobyHill: Literally doing that now. She's not a fan. But I tend to not really get on with MTB chicks or surfer chicks. Sigh. Mans can't catch a dub :/
  • 16 2
 @CustardCountry: She can ride down "Bro Zone" and she's going to be just fine. All she needs to understand is that words won't hurt her but casing jumps might. And that her father coaching her into fragility and narcissism is a disservice to her.
  • 1 0
 Does nobody else know this song?
  • 2 0
 @mior: agree, I’ve called female riders ‘bro!’ In the fondness of contexts many times and it has been received and understood appropriately.
  • 188 32
 I'm all for inclusion and the growth of women in mtbing but really? Did any woman seriously go up to the trail absolutely pumped to ride it, see the name of the trail, and decide to go home?
  • 20 158
flag Ryanakins (Dec 8, 2021 at 10:13) (Below Threshold)
 Are you a women?
  • 95 5
 @Ryanakins: are you? And why would that invalidate his comment?
  • 29 144
flag shredbot420 (Dec 8, 2021 at 10:25) (Below Threshold)
 "I'm all for inclusion..."

*Goes on to speak about exclusion and negate his first point*
  • 19 5
 @Ryanakins: is he/she women? As in a multiple personality disorder?
  • 16 40
flag jaame (Dec 8, 2021 at 10:34) (Below Threshold)
 Yes, that is exactly what happened. That's why the name has been changed.
  • 12 65
flag ybsurf (Dec 8, 2021 at 10:36) (Below Threshold)
 @shredbot420: it's like people saying I'm not racist BUT...
  • 20 52
flag decoverley (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:15) (Below Threshold)
 What do you think the "customer feedback" was? It costs nothing to make it more inclusive. If they've mitigated the slightest hesitation for one person (removed one barrier for one person) it's worth it.
  • 32 3
 @Ryanakins: Men can ask questions too, you know
  • 12 6
 @decoverley: That should come with at least one condition i.e. as long as they didn't simultaneously increase anyone's hesitation to becoming involved in an activity where the whims of the woke minority are catered to.
  • 30 5
 @decoverley: No it's not. cowing to any lowly demand is the camel's nose in the tent. Name the f*cking trail and be done with it. I don't really care if you call it Thundercock Mcc*ntburger.

well, maybe I do.....*goes and files for a copyright*
  • 5 20
flag Ryanakins (Dec 8, 2021 at 13:26) (Below Threshold)
 @speed10: I didn’t imply invalidation. I was just curious.
  • 4 22
flag Ryanakins (Dec 8, 2021 at 13:27) (Below Threshold)
 @SimbaandHiggins: you are adding meaning to my comment that’s not there.
  • 16 3
 @Ryanakins: I appreciate the response. Your claim that ‘you are just curious’ is bunk. This is a conversation about sensitivity towards genders and you asked what sex a commenter was. It clearly held relevance to you. If you’d ask if he had a cat growing up because you ‘just curious’ that might be believable.
  • 2 1
 @nbram did you?
  • 4 19
flag Ryanakins (Dec 8, 2021 at 15:34) (Below Threshold)
 @speed10: again you are implying meaning. I can’t control your response. Only you can. I chose not to dig more into the conversation. That’s my decision. Thanks.
  • 5 16
flag Ryanakins (Dec 8, 2021 at 15:36) (Below Threshold)
 @speed10: pinkbike conversations are volatile as shit. It’s extremely difficult to have a reasonable conversation unless I hold the majorities views. My own experience with this thread shows that much and therefore it’s not beneficial or helpful for me to engage. You can dig at me about it all you want, like I said; that’s your decision. Have a good one.
  • 12 1
 @Ryanakins: "It’s extremely difficult to have a reasonable conversation..." When you start being reasonable, we'll have that conversation.
  • 2 8
flag Ryanakins (Dec 9, 2021 at 7:16) (Below Threshold)
 @mikealive: nice try.
  • 6 0
 @Ryanakins: my partner (she) said you need to spend less time worrying about this stuff and typing and more time with a trail tool and doing something useful. I got her into riding MTB a bit over a year ago and she shreds now. She also said a trail name like this would make her WANT to ride it more. Time to put your fingers to good use and do some trash clean up or trail work at your local trail center. Then you would actually have some proper buy in on trail names.
  • 1 5
flag Ryanakins (Dec 9, 2021 at 8:56) (Below Threshold)
 @RBalicious: Lol. you have no idea how much or how little I help build my local trails.
  • 4 1
 @Ryanakins: point still stands bro Wink
  • 4 0
 @RBalicious: I asked the misses a sim question about the name and she just laughed and said who flippin' cares.....zero issues
  • 139 9
 At the same time on the same planet, one of the most famous trail is called Ladies Only
  • 28 108
flag Ryanakins (Dec 8, 2021 at 10:16) (Below Threshold)
 Equity vs equality. This is about equity.
  • 20 64
flag shredbot420 (Dec 8, 2021 at 10:21) (Below Threshold)
 @Ryanakins: Well said man. Starting lines at different spots.
  • 30 111
flag shredbot420 (Dec 8, 2021 at 10:24) (Below Threshold)
 To raise your point in legitimate opposition to the issue above, one would have to deny the longstanding privilege men have been favored in western civilization. If you are okay with that, then you are dismissing an entire school of thought spanning psychology, sociology, and more recent feminism and gender studies.
  • 19 4
 @Ryanakins: How does this change the distribution of resources?
  • 47 8
 @shredbot420: I bet you are fun at parties.
  • 126 65
 @shredbot420: Long standing privilege that men have been favored??

Can’t remember the last time someone opened the door because I was a man
Or bought me a drink because I was a man
Or hired me because I was an attractive man
Or gave me money because I was an attractive man
Or didn’t have to work myself to the bone 40hrs a week because I was a man
Or wasn’t eligible for the draft because I was a man
Or was allowed to met lower physical strength standards because I was a man.

Your point is obtuse and lacks credibility, particularly given your citing of “recent gender studies”

Genders are pretty equal. We both have strengths and weakness, and pros and cons of being either gender. Men and women balance each other out symbiotically. Time to step off your soap box, and step back into reality.
  • 37 108
flag Burningbird (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:12) (Below Threshold)
 @h20-50: Congrats! You officially have the worst take here. That's quite an accomplishment
  • 45 9
 @Burningbird: Thanks bro! Wrote it just so you could read it, without actually trying to think about what I was saying! Cheers!
  • 49 10
 @shredbot420: "you are dismissing an entire school of thought spanning psychology, , and more recent feminism and gender studies"

Yes, and good riddance
  • 16 33
flag furiousstyles (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:45) (Below Threshold)
 @wburnes: Found the incel
  • 14 51
flag furiousstyles (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:45) (Below Threshold)
 @h20-50: Lay off the Jordan Peterson, bro
  • 55 31
 @h20-50:
Hi, I'm a man:
Someone literally opened the door for me today.

There's quite a lot of research demonstrating that more attractive (and especially taller) men are more successful and make more money than less attractive men. So it does apply.

Not sure what you're getting at with "didn't have to work myself to the bone" so I'll leave it unless you care to expand.

Mmm, drafts... this one varies from country to country, but it's true there's a gender difference in something so politically unpopular that it is unlikely to occur in our lifetimes.

"Allowed to meet lower criteria". I've never been in the armed services, but my guess is that the smart strategy is to look at battlefield performance, not intake requirements. Note that in the US those have been dropped for both genders recently so that they can increase recruitment.

Also, plenty of women have bough me drinks in bars. Dunno what to tell you, dude. Maybe you should smile more?

In many ways men and women are on a much more level playing field than ever, which is dope. But talking to my female friends, sports (MTB included) is a place where they continue to feel uncomfortable and excluded by the culture. And a ton of the comments here basically brush of their experiences as unimportant. Which sucks.
  • 2 2
 Appalling! Can I ride?
  • 25 8
 @protwurst: your first sentence of your last paragraph is exactly my point!

People get so focused on viewing equality on a point by point basis, like the points I listed. There will always be pros and cons to being a woman, and pros and cons to being a man.

Men and women are not equal across the board. In some traits they far exceed male capabilities, and in some traits men exceed female capabilities. My whole point was to show, given a perspective, any sex can be favored. But more importantly, men and women balance each other out in the big picture. Yin and Yang, black and white cookie, pork chops and apple sauce my man!
  • 8 4
 @h20-50: It should be possible to hold this point of view while also acknowledging that sexism is still a real problem. I was made acutely aware of this when my wife and I were forced to share our home office during the first year of the pandemic. We work in the same industry and I was floored by the way she was treated by many of her older male customers and coworkers. Yes, in many ways things have gotten better, but there is still a long way to go. It isn't about being the same, its about being treated the same when the differences don't matter.
  • 15 9
 @h20-50: but the points you listed were, on the whole, bad points. I don't feel like digging in to deep here on the things my female friends experience in sports and in the workplace, so let's just stay in the context of this article.

In the context of this article and the decision made here, what I am telling you is that many women feel excluded from adventure sports, especially as beginners. It sounds like you are chalking that up to one of the "cons" or being a woman. But it's not some inbuilt thing that cannot be changed.To say there are pros and cons for each gender and then walking off into the sunset ignores the agency you have to make changes in the world. You can literally just paint over the sign and say "hey, sorry! We want women to feel welcome here because they belong here so we changed the sign to be less gendered." It's a single, small, positive step that is almost effortless.
  • 6 2
 @shredbot420: you cant fix discrimination with reverse discrimination.. you are either for equality, or you are full if sht
  • 9 4
 @Burningbird: Now you’re off topic of my original response, and addressing male privilege in the above statement. Let’s discuss one at a time. I covered male privilege above, so I’ll address yours.

Do I hold my views and believe sexism exists. Of course I do. I seen sexism go both ways. My dad and brother were/are both male nurses. Not a stereotypical male job, in which they both were subject to sexism more than once.

I do believe women see it more then men. I do also believe it’s not as common as many people feel, or are led to believe it is. There’s two sides to a coin, and this issue as well. It’s not black and white, and you really have to look from both perspectives to appreciate this issue in entirety.
  • 9 4
 @protwurst: I think you read my initial response wrong. I was never arguing that women don’t feel excluded from adventure sports. My response was to shed light on the fact that male privilege is solely based upon the perspective in which you look at it. Apples and oranges between our comments my dude.

With that said, I absolutely agree that women could/do feel excluded from adventure sports. Btw, I actually quite agree with most of your points in the comments above.

Cheers!
  • 5 14
flag CustardCountry (Dec 8, 2021 at 15:00) (Below Threshold)
 @protwurst: or maybe H20-50 is a fat ugly bastard.
  • 8 11
 @jeremy3220: in this particular context I’m referring to starting points. Men have have generally held the majority of decision making power in sports for most of history, it’s okay for a trail to be called ladies only because women have had less representation than men. Hope that makes sense to why I made that comment. It seems most people who use this forum can’t grasp the concept.
  • 5 1
 @shredbot420: Wow. Frothing at the mouth much?
  • 3 3
 @Ryanakins: You're dodging. How does it provide equity?
  • 5 7
 @carters75: gotta love some casual transphobia
  • 6 2
 @adamstraus: nobody is afraid of them
  • 4 3
 @Ryanakins: do I golf from the womens’ tee? Maybe. Am I humbled when women smash it from the blacks? Definitely. For some reason I just feel golf is more appropriate for you to understand this non-issue of trail naming.
  • 1 1
 @shredbot420: sorry see above
  • 3 4
 @h20-50: Male privilege is sexism, they are the same topic.

"I do also believe it’s not as common as many people feel, or are led to believe it is." - Maybe this is true in Germany, I really hope it is, but it isn't the case here in the states and in many places in the world. That's just a fact and anyone arguing otherwise is willfully ignorant.
  • 7 4
 @Burningbird: “Male privilege is sexism, they are the same topic.”

Trail bikes and Enduro bikes are bikes, but they are not the same tools. Your arguments are crossing boundaries that define them, and lack congruency.

I’ll help you here, privilege is something that is GIVEN. Sexism is something that is IMPOSED. Diametric difference.

Also, I’m an American stationed in Germany, sooooo………..
  • 3 7
flag Burningbird (Dec 8, 2021 at 21:40) (Below Threshold)
 @h20-50: In this context, male privilege is something that is imposed on women.
  • 6 4
 @Burningbird: Look, this is getting ridiculous with the melding and blending of discussions. Stay on my original topic. I’m not saying another word after this. However, the definition of privilege is:
“ a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular group”

Explain to me how male privilege is IMPOSED on women, when by definition it is something that is granted to a group???

Your semantics are denigrating your stance bud
  • 11 7
 I couldn't agree more. A bike park decided to change the name of a trail to be more inclusive and you and the other knuckle draggers here have tried to make it into some sort of Male Rights issue. No wonder this place is such a sausage fest
  • 11 9
 @h20-50: can't imagine the smell with your head that far up your ass. Trying to somehow argue that men haven't held positions of power for much longer than women because no one wants to f*ck you bad enough to buy you a drink? It's maybe been a decade now that women have not actively been discouraged from most physical/dangerous sports so maybe supporting things that make women not feel welcome in our sport makes you an a*shole? It's at least a possibility.
  • 1 2
 @protwurst: you're the exception which proves the rule. Congratulations on being born tall and pretty.
  • 6 7
 @friendlyfoe: you've confused all men holding power in society with small exclusive groups of men holding power in society.

"It's maybe been a decade now that women have not actively been discouraged from mostphysical/dangerous sports"
- that's neither good nor bad. For all you know, many a young man has been permanently injured in sports he wasn't keen on, but was encouraged/pressured to do.

"maybe supporting things that make women not feel welcome in our sport makes you an a*shole?"
- not wanting to succumb to every demand from every spoilt bratty bitch is a sign of strength.

Being a woman in the western world may have some downsides; but it is and has been an easier life than that of men.
  • 5 5
 @sonuvagun: what?!! Hahahaha you must be living in a different western world than me.
  • 5 5
 @h20-50: If male privilege is only granted or available to men, and is granted BY OTHER MEN already holding that privilege, and endows men with relative power over women, how is that privilege not IMPOSED on women?

I lived in Switzerland when some cantons where still arguing about whether to give women the vote, and the voters decided "No". Those with the privilege of voting all just happened to be MEN, and imposed their continued position of relative privilege on women.

Your lack of logic is undermining your argument.
  • 5 5
 @sonuvagun: the slaves have such an easy time of it. No difficult decisions to make, no money worries, just nice simple rules to follow, guaranteed work, enough food and a roof over their heads. They just need to remember their place and not get uppity - as an owner, it's a sign of strength to not to succumb to their every demand.

If your post is remotely serious, it shows a sickening lack of insight.
  • 2 2
 This one is now called the "Oestrogen Zone" so that makes two.
  • 2 2
 @Ryanakins: No, it's just you lack the ability to objectively view the reality you live in. I suspect it's due to emotional reasons...but I'm not expert.
  • 2 1
 @dsut4392: Good god woman, speak plainly or go talk to someone who wants to interpret your metaphors.

We're not talking about people literally bought and sold. We're talking about people who have far more leverage in western society due to their gender and the rules which allow them to exploit preferential treatment.
  • 3 1
 @adamstraus: @adamstraus: there is nothing "transphobic" about having an issue with biological men smashing records in womens sports. What do you have against biological women? Do you not think they deserve a fair playing field?
  • 2 0
 @Burningbird: why did you call me a knuckle dragger? I wasn’t even part of the conversation. Sure, I might have been born left handed and had to learn how to survive in a predominantly right handed world, but that’s no reason to call me names.
  • 4 3
 @sonuvagun: Listen, I could give you an educated response and let you know that my wife has a phd in psychology and has legitimately studied women's trauma and has experienced discrimination in the work place herself. I could also go on to explain how i have had personal experiences where me being a man has made my life easier. I also could do a really simple google search on laws that have discriminated against women in the united states history, list them out, and discuss how thats contributed to modern day bias and the nuances that come along with that between the sexes. I just don't get the vibe from you that care about any of that. If I'm wrong, let me know.

Everyone is shaped by their personal lived experienced. It takes intentional work to look outside of our lived experiences and be willing to see others perspectives. I'm not going to dismiss all the women I've talked to that have told me about their own personal experiences with discrimination because I haven't had the same experience. I admit I was being a bit of an a**hole with my initial response to you because i was tired and annoyed with all of this but I'd be happy to have a real conversation if you wanted.
  • 1 1
 @friendlyfoe: hmmm…..

Please show me where I ever argued that men haven’t held positions of power for much longer than women in any of my replies. Point those words out exactly.

Because I haven’t, haven’t even typed those words. You infer I said that, by reading into my my reply, instead of actually paying attention to what I said.

FYI, I agree that men have held positions of power longer than women. I don’t think anyone could disagree.
  • 3 1
 @Ryanakins: "Listen, I could give you an educated response" Your initial response has me skeptical.

We are not some collective. We are individuals. If a person was discriminated against 50 years ago in some aspect of life, that doesn't mean someone of the same gender today gets to play victim to that OTHER individual's experience.

"I could also go on to explain how i have had personal experiences where me being a man has made my life easier." You could also give experiences where being a man meant your experience was harder than it would have been for a woman in the same situation. It's not in our nature to do that as men because women keep telling us we have it easy, and we like to think highly of ourselves so we eat that story up.

"I also could do a really simple google search on laws that have discriminated against women in the united states history, list them out, and discuss how thats contributed to modern day bias and the nuances that come along with that between the sexes." You could also look at incarceration rates, and likelihood of being found guilty in a court of law, and severity of sentences for similar crimes between women and men. From those numbers we can see that men are very clearly discriminated against in the courts today, and when they go to prison, they get to enjoy the violence and rape that comes with prison. But men are many times less likely to draw attention to that kind of trauma.

Life in Western Society has an uber-elite Patriarchy that all men are being found guilty of participating in. The reality is, under that level, practically every urban institution has policies and laws which favour women over men.
  • 2 0
 @Ryanakins: but where do you draw the line? If one person has a problem with anything, be it a power play or legitamate issues...do you cater to that in every circumstance? Does somebody make a judgement call like your wife who is educated in the field? Do you let common vernacular drive the discussion (words like "guys" and "Bro" which is largely gender neutral now)? Do you let the masses decided (what we are seeing here on PB comments)?

With all the pro-nouns today are we expected to understand every single one including all the silly ones like "puppy" (which are apparently legitimate)?

Where is the line drawn and who makes the decision?

Do we leave it up to psychologists? If so, should we have relied on Freud to figure all this out for us....in hindsight, no....but we could be saying the same thing about professionals in the field now.....in 50 years.
  • 2 0
 @Ryanakins: ironic how your wife just happens to have her PhD in Psychology amid a thread such as this. I would think you would have the ability to clearly articulate your points in a manner that would not grant you hundreds of down votes. Something seems amiss here...
  • 3 0
 @Ryanakins: Don't see how any of that relates to a trail name.
  • 2 0
 @h20-50: but one problem with postmodern theories is they are not backed up by science or facts
  • 2 0
 @h20-50: You questioned whether men held a position of long standing privilege. That would be it.

@sonuvagun: Feel free to also consider the possibility that you might be an a*shole.
  • 1 0
 @friendlyfoe: Whether or not I'm an a*shole doesn't preclude your thought process on this from being a distortion of reality.
  • 104 10
 The ladies I know, that would ride a pro line like this, are some of the most "bro" people I know.
  • 16 14
 That's completely true for me too, but is exactly the nature of the problem. A woman (or man/boy/girl/gender diverse person of unspecified age) shouldn't need to fit or aspire to fit the 'bro' stereotype to feel like they belong on whatever trail they please (within their riding abilities).

Many people regardless of gender are put off by the high fiving 'bro' culture into feeling the sport (or particular trail networks) are not for them, even though it's far from the intention of most 'bros'.

Wouldn't it be nice if MTB as a whole was less of a sausage fest?
  • 10 2
 @dsut4392: "Many people regardless of gender are put off by the high fiving 'bro' culture into feeling the sport..." AND? Offended by a high five and a good time shared by some friends?? Nah, I wouldn't apologize for that mate. Put off by that to the extent that new rider can't even try it? Fine, then don't. Or, OR you know, find a group of friends who don't behave like that. Out of the 30 or so people I regularly meet up to ride with *zero* of them are 'high five bro culture'. But sure, we can invite closed-minded risk-phobes into the activity of MTB, that will go swell. Shall I go ahead and get them the IMBA membership now then?

"...even though it's far from the intention of most 'bros'." Yeah, the point exactly. Context matters.
  • 3 6
 @mikealive: For someone who points out that context matters, it's ironic that your whole rant is built on a straw man [person?]. You do realize "offended" is something you made up, not something I said?

You get a bunch of 10 armour wearing bros clustered around the trail head mouthing off about hitting sick triples at 100 miles an hour and it's going to put off a lot of people starting down that trail, even if everything on it can be safely rolled on a hardtail by a beginner wearing an XC lid, and it was constructed that way deliberately to make it the perfect trail for skills progression. The people who are put off aren't 'offended' by the bros, but might still think 'I don't belong on this trail, it's built for people like them'. Is "Fine then, don't" really the message you want to send?

Context matters, and intention is important, but unless intention is acted on it's invisible to anyone but yourself.
  • 7 3
 @dsut4392: "Many people regardless of gender are PUT OFF by the high fiving 'bro' culture..." (emphasis mine). What is 'put off' in your mind then if not a synonym for offended? Might be a bit of missed in translation thing between the English used in our respective countries, but that is how it would be interpreted here. If a person is 'put off' enough to not participate, could you not say that they were offended? And it's not a rant, but it's quite telling that you would frame a challenge to your view point as such. Interesting.

I enjoy these hypothetical situations that yourself and others tend to draw up.. yet you'd like to have a go at me about a strawman? C'mon now. "You get a bunch of 10 armour wearing bros clustered around the trail head mouthing off about hitting sick triples at 100 miles an hour...""...even if everything on it can be safely rolled on a hardtail by a beginner wearing an XC lid...". Tell me, where is this happening exactly?

For the sake of argument, let's take it at face value--let's say some excited lads are at the top of the line recounting their last run 'at 100 miles an hour' (lol).. are they not allowed to do that? In the scenario you've laid out, these 'bros' (your words not mine) are enjoying the park as anyone else would. They are pumped up about their runs, even in this area where 'everything can be rolled by a hardtail by a beginner wearing an XC lid'. They are not blocking the trail, they haven't been rude, they haven't even *spoken* to this imaginary fragile being you are trying to protect. Ok, AND? What would you have them do then mate? I'm actually baffled trying to follow your logic here. "Ok lads, we'll have you go down single file. Wait until the marshall says go. There will be NO whooping, NO shouting. Just perform the act then return to the top. Do not talk unless given permission, because someone *might* hear it and instead of using their own faculties, logic, and good judgement to discern whether or not they should go down this trail, dsut4392 has determined that they are either not intelligent enough or too fragile to ever be put in a situation that might make them uncomfortable...potentially.". To play with your idea a bit, let's set up the opposite scenario--no 'bros' at the top, but a super gnarly trail that is definitely not for beginners. Signed right at the top, double black... then what? *Who* does the responsibility for the rider fall to then? Because before it was the bros at the top responsible for this rider, but now they're not in the picture. Is it right to suggest that the rider have some person responsibility in the decision making process? If so here, then why not at the other trail?

I'll attempt to save some back and forth and progress the conversation at hand--why do you feel it is acceptable to police the legal behavior of others? These 'bros' have broken no laws. They are guilty of simply sounding (subjectively) intimidating, apparently. In your goofy scenario the fragile rider *might* be put off, lol, so you'd have the bros do what then? Curious your answer here. Here's a different scenario--maybe, *maybe* the new rider hesitates at the top of the line. *maybe* one of the bros notices this and says 'Oh it's really rideable dude, no worries'. New rider still has hesitation. Dude bro says 'You want to follow me down? It's really mellow, I'll go slow.. this one isn't too bad'. OH THE HUMANITY.

"The people who are put off aren't 'offended' by the bros, but might still think 'I don't belong on this trail, it's built for people like them'." And they would be *wrong* in thinking that, and that's totally on THEM, not the bros. How is this hard to grasp?
  • 3 5
 @mikealive:
- By put off I mean deter dissuade discourage etc. Yes, probably a translation thing.
-Where exactly - Air Ya Garn (upper), Derby, every day of the week that shuttles are running. Two or three shuttles pull up at a similar time, and 20 people congregate at the trail entrance while one from each group messes around with their pads etc. It's a signed blue track, that ridden at low speed it's the easiest, lowest consequence trail down by a big margin, but at speed you can get lots of air, and not always have clear sight lines. I know more than one non-imaginary person who only rides that track outside of shuttle operating hours purely because of inconsiderate behaviour by people riding it as if it were a private track.
-What would I have them do? Your 'different scenario' is a good one and happens sometimes, and there are plenty of other variations e.g "hey, are you heading down Air Ya Garn, it's an awesome track? We're going to be going pretty fast and getting lots of air, do you mind letting us through if you hear us catching you? You can totally roll everything if you're not ready for jumps". Most people, bros or otherwise are friendly and respectful towards everyone, but every now and then a group of bros fail to notice (or ignore) an outsider who rolls away intimidated. How is that a good outcome for anyone, even when it's unintended?

I'm not advocating 'policing' anyone, just encouraging everyone to be aware other people might not see things the same way as they do. Much as you seem to be protesting otherwise, your behaviour does affect how other people think and feel - I'm not failing to grasp your assertion that "it's totally on THEM", I'm rejecting it as false, as is the assertion that giving trails sexist names can't have the consequence of making some trail users feel less welcome.
  • 4 0
 @dsut4392: Yes, of course, be aware that there are other people around. This is common courtesy. However, to not act within your own rights to enjoy an area (within the rules, obviously) just because some wet sock *might* find it 'off putting'? Nah, you're off your rocker on that one. You can pack up your prudish moral superiority and send it off the nearest booter.

Have you ever given any thought to the notion that offense is never given, rather always taken? Of course not. Legislating to the lowest denominator, in this case those who are the least in control of their own emotions, is a race to the bottom.

I forgot, there's no arguing 'feelings' because they are all valid in your eyes, right? "I'm rejecting it as false" the absolute sanctimonious life you sad sods live. I 'feel' you are all a positively insufferable lot. Cheers.
  • 1 3
 @mikealive: there you go making things up again. Show me where I said bros shouldn't have fun, or suggested 'legislating' to the lowest common denominator'? And this sneering dismissal of other people being 'lower' (than yourself, presumably?) comes right after you accuse me of prudish moral superiority...
For someone who claims offence is taken not given, you sure seem pretty triggered about the name of a trail on the far side of the planet being changed by the owners of the bike park the trail is in, and the mere suggestion that it's worth considering how other people's feelings may be affected by your actions and words.
Why do you choose to feel that way, it sounds positively tiring and uncomfortable?
  • 4 0
 @dsut4392: That I must explain everything to you like a toddler is a bother.. but as I'm on call and have nothing else to do, let's have a go, shall we?

"Show me where I said bros shouldn't have fun..." Yeah? Show me where I said that *you* said bros can't have fun? We can play that game all day if you'd like. (Sidenote, funny how you never clarify a position of yours that I have allegedly misunderstood, rather echo 'show me where I said that' like it's some sort of slam dunk fortification of your position, lol) Assuming a minimal level of reading comprehension, dots can be connected and inferences drawn. You had recounted a fable wherein the offenders are those who 'do sick triples at 100mph' and are excited about it, but yet have not broken rules of any kind. They would be 'fun havers', yes? And you have deemed their behavior unacceptable in the presence of any other people for fear that it may be 'off putting', correct? Do I need to do the rest of the work here, or have you taken the point? You not literally saying the words 'bros shouldn't have fun' does not make the thesis of your argument any different. Though I'm sure in your mind it's more like 'bros can have all the fun they want, they just need to have it the way I say they can'. Authroitarian twit.

"...or suggested 'legislating' to the lowest common denominator'" Same as above. The victim in your scenario, by your own words, is someone who "...regardless of gender are put off by the high fiving 'bro' culture into feeling the sport (or particular trail networks) are not for them, even though it's far from the intention of most 'bros' and "...might still think 'I don't belong on this trail, it's built for people like [the bros]'". It appears your argument is that it is both logical and prudent that a group, enjoying the park as permitted and intended, should alter their behavior because someone *might* be put off by it, with the line for being 'put off' being totally subjective. So absent mind reading, these lads, purely out of caution, should be stripped of the privilege to enjoy the park as themselves, as who they are, on account that someone might be 'put off' by their personalities?? That's the height of absurdity. Sure sounds like 'policing' to me. For the fact that the victim in your scenario lacks the self confidence and social skills to parse the situation, the expectation is that the group must completely alter their behavior. That is legislating to the lowest denominator. (You misquoted me in your reply--there is nothing 'common' implied here, an important distinction to be had.)

You've misrepresented my position with "Much as you seem to be protesting otherwise, your behaviour does affect how other people think and feel..." I agree, behavior absolutely can affect how people think and feel, and I've never made a case to the contrary. (I could play your favorite card 'show me where I said..' but will pass on it in favor of correcting the misunderstanding.) We are in agreement that one's behavior can have an affect on others, rather we disagree to what extent an individual is responsible for their own feelings. I've stated my position above; absent mind reading, what would you have the bros do? You've conveniently left out any actionable advice in that regard. 'Just be aware of others...' yes, easy enough. However, that goes both ways--not everyone thinks the same as you, and may have different ways of enjoying an activity. And if a newcomer is not confident in doing something, then don't do it. It is on no one else to provide for them that confidence or comfort.

"And this sneering dismissal of other people being 'lower' (than yourself, presumably?) comes right after you accuse me of prudish moral superiority..." Fair criticism. I should have kept my focus on you, the individual that I am interacting with and from which the opinion was derived, than to project that onto a group of imaginary strangers. I stand corrected. Worth mentioning, my position was not one of morality, but rather academic, however that is a tale for another time.

"For someone who claims offence is taken not given, you sure seem pretty triggered about the name of a trail..." Ah yes, shifting the goalposts. Could have seen this coming from a million kilometers away. You bring up the trail name, why now? Our whole conversation has been entirely about something else, and now you want to shift it to the trail name, of which neither of us have commented on to this point? Why? Is it because you know you have a losing position and need to strawman my stance on a different topic so that you may appear to have a good footing again? Nah, you'd never do that would ya now...

"...and the mere suggestion that it's worth considering how other people's feelings may be affected by your actions and words." More moral posturing on your part. And as already clarified above, I've never contested the basic premise of your statement. I will, for the sake of clarity, reiterate that feelings are up to the individual to arrive upon, and thus no other party can bear the responsibility for them, ultimately. Legislating to the most fragile and least competent is a race to the bottom. This truth does not invalidate an elective practice to 'be nice', however subjective that definition may be.

"Why do you choose to feel that way..." lol, gaslight much? I don't feel that way at all, but nice try.
  • 87 1
 I don't the see O-Zone listed as trail on their website, I do see Swinger Party though, that sounds inclusive.
  • 6 1
 Any port in a storm, am I right?
  • 61 6
 Climate activists: O-Zone is offensive bro, save the planet!!

CAP: Sod this....
  • 55 2
 Hey everybody, let's freak out and argue in the comments like always.
  • 2 0
 Haha right?!
  • 5 0
 This is the best comment section in a while. There should be more puns tho.
  • 46 3
 Probably an unpopular opinion but there’s a difference between being offensive and not being inclusive. Like I don’t think anyone is actually offended by this but mountain biking has always been notorious for not being very inclusive for women. And in the past two years we’ve seen some sick riding from women in some historically only male comps, so although I’m not offended, it does seem weird to me to name a pro line the bro zone. Like I don’t understand why it’s a good or even relevant name.
  • 5 2
 Completely agree with you, with the one exception that "bro" is common slang in NZ, so it's not weird to use the term, just out of touch not to even consider the sexist connotation.
  • 2 4
 Yeah and you mention calling a pro line the bro line not being inclusive of people who are not bros, but could the same not be said for people who are not pros? Calling it a pro line is obviously going to put people off who are not pros. I mean, you could literally apply that logic to anything. A swimming pool. Oh, I can't swim so I can't go. Bakery. My name is Cooper, not baker. It's not inclusive. Apple. Oh dear, I prefer pears and bananas. Why can't they make an iPhone that's inclusive of me? BMW... I don't hail from Bavaria so I'd better go for a jaguar... But oh dear jaguars are big cats and my dog will not feel included when he jumps up into the boot. Irish bars, Caribbean rum, Thai food.

Don't you see how ridiculous it all is? People should stop seeing everything in such a negative light. Everyone is not out to get you. Roll your sleeves up and get on with life is what I say.
  • 49 8
 I don't mind they changed the name, i am more curious about "exclusionary name" & that a name would make a certain group in the population not feel welcome, so, was it even a single instance of a woman at this trail not riding it because of the name? Was the people who complained actually riders of that trail or just some randoms who wanted a pat on the back from the professional outrage groups?
  • 43 4
 It's usually the outsiders complaining
  • 14 6
 Fast forward to 2034: all trails numbered instead of named. Full leather suits must be worn. Traffic light safety system: riders must wait at the top until the preceding rider reaches the bottom. Park cloased on rainy days and in strong winds. Personal accident insurance mandatory.

What a world we live in!
  • 13 40
flag decoverley (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:27) (Below Threshold)
 It costs nothing to make this trail more inclusive. If they remove even the slightest hesitation for one person then it's worth it.

They're responding to customer feedback, and we're challenging who the customers are and if their feedback should be considered?
  • 31 3
 @decoverley: They’re responding to a social media backlash with feigned outrage on behalf of the 99.9% of women who will never even ride the trail, not “customer” feedback.
  • 16 1
 @decoverley: Thge trail is exclusive anyway. Below XX skill level should not ride. The actual name means jack shit.
  • 5 1
 @jaame: That won't work either; Trail #2 will always feel inferior to Trail #1. Maybe we can name them after the Greek alphabet?
  • 9 1
 @jaame: maths is racist, dont you know?
  • 4 1
 @GZMS: yeah and I was also shocked to recently discover that water is racist too.
I just hope that in my lifetime water and maths, if not the whole of the developed world, can stop being racist. And sexist. Of course, the rest of the world can continue to be racist and sexist... Nobody cares about those countries anyway. Unless they get a bike park and call their trails by racist names, then they deserve some serious social media backlash from three people pretending to be offended and 34 of their friends who pressed "like".
  • 9 11
 Speaking of random outsiders and professional outrage groups...welcome to the Pinkbike comments section, where the anti-PC bros from all over the world get all butt-hurt about being 'cancelled' in an MTB park in New Zealand, and downvote anyone expressing a pro-inclusivity view into oblivion.

Do none of you with your Swedish @jesperA, Dutch @Mac1987, British @jaame and US @Badler @Dmrides flags see the comical absurdity of your position?
  • 6 9
 @dsut4392: this ^ it’s quite ridiculous. I am honestly blown away by the aggressiveness these guys dislike anything that is inclusive.
  • 8 2
 @dsut4392: for real. Any time there’s an article about doing literally anything to improve the inclusivity of mtb, everyone loses their goddamn minds.

I’m sure the “social media backlash” was probably a few women being like “hey, this name feels kinda off-putting to women”, meanwhile everyone here is far more offended than the “PC police” they’re complaining about.
  • 3 4
 @dsut4392: I guess we shouldn't be surprised that this nonsense is coming out of the nanny state known as NZ. Australia is just as bad. Can you guys even come out of your houses yet without being rounded up and put in a concentration camp?
  • 1 0
 It was better in the olden days when you had to actually pick up a pen and paper if you wanted to complain about something. It takes a lot more effort to actually post a letter to someone than it does to just pick up your silly little phone and feign offence. Much less to just press "like".
If we could return to the good old days, we would see how many people actually care about stuff, and how many are just pressing "like" for something to do to pass the time when they're getting paid to work.

A better way to be inclusive in this case (which has actually alienated more people than it has included) would have been to rename the line next to it "Sis Zone". A lot of people have brothers and a lot have sisters. It is not inclusive to cancel brothers. It is inclusive to add sisters.

I think it's just the way NZ is going though isn't it? I like Jacinda Adern in a lot of ways. She cares for the people. Well, she cares about keeping them safe from themselves at least. Not so much about protecting their freedom, in some ways. A bit like Obama. She'd make a great next door neighbour. I'd be happy to have Obama on one side and Adern on the other. Not sure how good they are at getting shit done for the majority of the electorate though.
About the name change that's been mooted. Not sure if it will come before or after the meat ban... But I'm all for it. If the people vote to change the name to Aotearoa then that's exactly what they should do. Not Aotearoa New Zealand though. It sounds silly as it's too long. Aotearoa is actually a much cooler sounding name, and we don't need to get hung up on the fact that it's historically contentious. It's a name for the day.
I wonder if we will ever get a name change. It would be interesting to see what options we can come up with. We could maybe call the whole of the UK Scotland or Wales. That would be cool. I mean, we're not exactly united these days.
  • 1 2
 @carters75: You suckers really lap up that info wars drivel don't you? To actually be charged (let alone imprisoned) for breaching public health directives you have to do some blatantly dumb shit, or at least be 'shopping for a mask while black and not wearing a mask' [but at least the dumb cops making stupid decisions based on racial profiling only threw punches, instead of shooting or choking people to death].
Most of the 'concentration camps' people are being put in are the same hotel rooms international travellers would normally pay hundreds of dollars a night to stay in. The others are student flats, or converted military bases which are good enough for our armed forced.

Melbourne and Sydney have had some long runs of restrictions, but the majority of people actually support them, because we can see where the alternative road leads and don't want to go there. Most of the country on the other hand has been entirely Covid free, with barely any restrictions. You know how many days that there has been mandatory mask wearing where I live in the entire duration of the pandemic so far? THREE. My wife

I bet the 815023 Americans who have died from Covid (and growing by 6000 per week) are enjoying their newfound freedom from confinement in a mortal body. You have 11 times the population of Australia, but you're still getting triple the deaths EVERY WEEK that we have had in the entire 93 weeks since the first death here on 2 March 2020.
  • 1 0
 @dsut4392: I think they should call it the Brovary Line so everyone is happy.
  • 1 0
 My wife just saw a news story and I had to come back to this. New Zealand is going to make it illegal for anyone born in 2008 or later to ever buy tobacco in their lives.

I don't smoke, never have, never will. I absolutely miss the point of smoking - it offers nothing of value that I can see.

However, this is horrific political overreach. There are such things as cigarettes. Some people may want to smoke them. What business is it of anyone but that person if he or she wants to smoke?

Is everything going to be illegal one day? I know meat will be, but what else will they put on the list?
  • 1 0
 @jaame: I see both sides, I assume they have national Healthcare and are expected to pay for medical expenses for people that get lung cancer, I can see them making it illegal if the greater population will benefit. Private Healthcare system with rates that go up if you smoke or are overweight, people do what they want. I'm sure you don't wanna pay for people that are doing hard drugs....but we do ride bikes which is dangerous so there is that.

I think it's complicated, no cut and dry opinion for me....but
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: yeah but smoking makes you less likely to be obese. It makes you smell but fat people also smell. It’s six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Don’t get me wrong, I am personally against smoking. I would love it if no one smoked, but it’s not my business what other people do. I would also worry about what you said - if the government can control hazardous activities on healthcare cost grounds, are we also going to be outlawed at some point? Is the O Zone line going to be closed. One would hope not after the investment in the name change.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: fair point!
  • 67 29
 Lets face it, the name was stupid from the beginning. I personally support the change to be more inclusive, but also because "Bro Zone" is one of the most ridiculous trail names I have ever heard. Sounds like something chad, kyle and the other frat boys came up with.
  • 8 0
 Yeah nah, you haven't been to NZ, eh bro? The muppets that came up with the trail name thought it was sweet as, bro, but they were so munted they forgot to check with the missus first.
  • 4 6
 I find your opinion highly UH-FEHN-SIVE. Maybe you need to be cancelled too.
  • 7 4
 My name is Kyle, I was never in a frat. Hey, wait now I’m offended.
  • 3 1
 @Floho How many have you personaly built, bro ?
  • 2 2
 @ka81 I've helped build 3 trails. Not much, but all of them have better names than Bro-Zone Big Grin
Ride on, bro!
  • 3 2
 @dsut4392: In my community there's an unspoken rule... when building an official trial: build it, name it, get drunk. when the trail is unofficial: get drunk, name it, get drunk, build it, get drunk.
Maybe the christchurch-bros should think about this Smile
  • 29 1
 PB clickbait got us again!
  • 30 5
 If the trail name shouldn't matter, why are you all crying about it in the comments? Seems like it does matter?
  • 9 7
 Doesnt seem that people are complaining about trail name.. seems like they are complaining about absurd PC censorship requirements..
  • 4 1
 @GZMS: it’s not censorship or a requirement when the park does it freely and of their own volition. It’s generally a good business move to change your product/branding when your potential customers don’t like it
  • 1 0
 @adamstraus: yeah, a lot of things these days are voluntary in such way.. get bullied to the ground until you have no other option but to comply, but it is still voluntary.. i get it, some things have to be enforced.. but firstly, have the balls to admit it is enforcement. Secondly, enforce something that is worth enforcing..
  • 42 19
 Upside down world where we are told women are strong, independent, brave, etc. in all our movies and media but are terrified of words so we must change everything to make them feel safe and included.
  • 8 39
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 8, 2021 at 12:07) (Below Threshold)
 Wow. That's really f*cking sexist. Why is wanting to feel safe and included a sign of weakness?
  • 6 2
 It’s more that MTB has been, and still is, extremely male-dominated. It benefits everyone when more people are involved in the sport, so the park is trying to avoid creating an environment that might be unwelcoming to potential customers.

For example, when Starbucks has some seasonal pink frappucino, they don’t call it a “sexy lady latte” or something stupid like that, because they aren’t trying to alienate customers.
  • 30 6
 This is a joke, right? Like.. seriously.
  • 21 3
 Wait until they hear the name of the town.
  • 20 6
 So, what about a trail named King Castle? Is that one offensive? Or Highballer? Cop Killer? Bob Gnarly?

This is getting a bit out of hand folks. Take a deep breath, ride your bike and have some fun, geez.
  • 16 3
 Don't get me wrong, that name was silly and slightly ridiculous to begin with. But the fact that people got upset about it is even more ridiculous. Is this seriously the world we live in? This reality increasingly feels like the wrong timeline.
  • 1 3
 You know what's next level ridiculous?

Everyone agreeing with the change is being downvoted to oblivion in the name of being anti-cancellation, and everyone disagreeing with the change is super angry that other people's feelings are being considered when they should just get over it because offence is taken not given.
  • 3 0
 @dsut4392: I'm all for the change. As I've said, I find the name and "bro culture" in general quite ridiculous.

What I meant was, that if you can afford to get so upset about something as unimportant as the name of a mountainbike trail and make a big fuss about it on social media, then you clearly have very little else to worry about in your life.
  • 15 2
 I must admit as I've got older I've got tired of some trail names. One near me is called Hand Job. I get, it's amusing. But if you have a ten year old kid and they say at school oh we did Hand Job at the weekend, it's my favourite.
  • 1 0
 Hasty Handjob? Your 10 year old is obviously a shredder.
  • 5 1
 We have one called Drugs. Its amusing to watching people post about "being on drugs today" all the time in local MTB fb groups which are half full of pretentious wine moms and man-Karens.
  • 6 0
 @Sweatypants: I've never been on drugs, but I look forward to try drugs at some point in the not to distant future to see what drugs is all about.
  • 6 9
 Yeah, so much testosterone fuelled bravado in names like this, thought up by boys whose minds would probably be blown by the concept that they might one day actually be friends with women rather than just stare at them.

I used to be right into rock climbing, and went to a crag in Nowra usually known as "PC" - the full name being the opposite of PC, and the route names are all NSFW.

There's a riding area in my current home town with trail names referencing the homeless guy who used to camp in the area for many years. He hasn't been there for years so will never have seen the (home made) trail signs, but it only takes the tiniest bit of empathy to understand how disrespectful it is for someone in that position to be mocked by privileged teenagers.
  • 4 2
 I think the wildest trail near me is "fork skin"
Tails have silly names, get over it.
  • 3 0
 Hello fellow Auckland rider, Hand job, Booty call and One night stand. What horny teenager named all these local trails?

Personally, I would like to see all trail names switch to being pirate themed.
  • 2 0
 @brendannz: We were all horny teenagers once! I guess trail names need to evolve as we as people do too!
  • 2 1
 @kiwi-in-ns: meh. Me and my wife are almost 40 and still tell each other dick and fart jokes all the time. You're never too old to be light hearted. This idea that playing in the dirt with a bicycle somehow should be more gentlemenly and refined is stupid. It doesn't. Name everything Poopdick Buttfart and I'll smile every time.
  • 16 0
 Orgasm Zone. Nicely done. I guess that's technically inclusive.
  • 5 1
 I mean, controversy aside, it's a pretty fun trail name, right?
  • 3 0
 @big-red: Runner-ups included Snail Trail, and Happy Trail.
  • 5 8
 nah cuz all the bros in this threads can't give women orgasms.
  • 14 3
 What is offensive? We can all agree some trail names are a bit much, and pretty corny in modern times. But, we also live in a time when "Wet Ass Pu**y" was the number 1 song of 2020 on many charts. Obviously, what is considered offense has changed in popular culture, the bar has been broadly lowered. But within the trail naming world "Bro", which is gendered term of endearment, is now off-limits. This is ridiculous internet outrage of the privileged progressives that want everything to be gray and smooth with no character at all.
  • 4 3
 Was thinking aboit the offensiveness in rap music. No one seems to complain because the artists don't care what all the bleeding hearts think. Society at large should be more like rap artists. If someone pretends to be offended at something, tell them to GTFO then.
  • 4 0
 I feel like there’s far more outrage in this comments section than there ever was about the trail name.

I suspect the “social media backlash” was a few women being like “hey, that’s a shit trail name and feels kinda exclusionary” so they changed it, and now everybody on PB is acting like EWS implemented mandatory castration or something, lol
  • 1 1
 @adamstraus: well, it's pretty much the same thing
  • 18 7
 renaming the trail was the correct decision, BUT it should be named O's before Ho's.
  • 21 12
 Can I just take a second to point out there isn’t a single female in that photo? So maybe it was aptly named? Or maybe women will turn out in the thousands now that the name has changed…
  • 17 1
 Mmmm, that hurts. Actually I am a woman and I am the rider on the top left photo. Not sure if I should be offended or flattered!!
  • 4 2
 @cbonnet: Awesome! Thank you so much for that. Don't fool yourselves gents, the ladies rip too. I've been schooled enough times by women that shred.
  • 3 1
 @cbonnet: My bad, sorry about that. I actually just meant the photo with all the guys pushing their bikes. But maybe there’s a woman in there, too? Quit while I’m ahead. Glad the sign didn’t scare you off and keep you from riding.
  • 10 0
 @TheR: hahaha, no worries dude. We all look the same with a full face and goggles! The (double black) track is so much fun and I could not wait to ride it. However, I was not particularly impressed by its name. To me it felt sexist but it certainly did not make me angry or prevent me from riding it. English is my 2nd language, so maybe I do not fully appreciate Kiwi slang???
  • 3 2
 @cbonnet: Thankyou for commenting. I hope the relentless denial or defence of obvious sexism expressed in the majority of comments doesn't deter you.
  • 2 0
 @cbonnet: I don't think bro is particularly sexist within NZ, but it is a terrible name. No one has shared the story behind the name so we can't really tell.

In Wellington there's a trail called Three Brothers at Makara. Although gendered language, it's named for hall of famers the Kennett brothers who were part of the original driving force to develop the park.
  • 2 3
 @kiwi-in-ns: It's certainly not usually intended as misogynistic in colloquial conversation as far as I've heard it [aussie with kiwi friends who has spent time in NZ], but it's still a gendered term, and not identifying that issue before naming the trail is still sexist even if unintended.
  • 2 0
 @dsut4392: Yep, you're right, that's a good point.

I think there's a wide difference between the North American use of bro and NZ use of the term which is tearing up the comments as well.
  • 8 0
 Weak story Pinkbike. Just inviting the pro-bro backlash. Fine that they made the change, but no need to cover it like it is news. It's like you're begging for controversy instead of letting the world just get along and change.
  • 17 11
 Again, 99% of woman wouldn't of cared but the 1 or two who complain effect things for everybody...
That trail is sick but its CAP being CAP, they don't know how to Maintain trails let alone name them.
they gave up and brung in a trail team to build this trail.

the meaning of bro is male brother, ie anybody's male brother.. its pure sexism favouritism,
If there was a trail there called Big Sis, 100% it wouldnt get changed no matter how many males complained
  • 9 1
 I think with some of these things like "Bro, Dude, Guys"....they are generally gender neutral in how they are used in practice regardless of origins. I hear women say "Dudes" all the time in context of riding.....and at work I hear women use the term "Guys" to address groups of mixed sex. Maybe there is some historical gender bias, so I get it, but practically it's kinda all the same these days based on what I see/here.

With that said I got called out like 20 years ago for addressing a group of male/females as "Guys"...certainly was not an intentional play to be sexist....just a common use of the term where I was from which is even more common now by guys and gals.

At work these days I make a point of using "Folks"....but in some circles I can certainly see males/females using the term Bro as a gender neutral term of endearment.....for better or worse.
  • 4 1
 To be fair, most train names around the word are borderline cringe. You've got to call them something. Who cares?
  • 7 23
flag decoverley (Dec 8, 2021 at 11:28) (Below Threshold)
 You feel comfortable speaking for 99% of women?
  • 3 0
 Ha we literally have a trail called Big Sister opening in 2 weeks to accompany our long standing Twisted Sister. Nobody has complained about the name or names.
  • 6 2
 @MattyBoyR6: no need for toxic femininity there!
  • 17 6
 wOke Zone
  • 12 3
 I find the name of the city to be offensive, please change it.
  • 8 1
 Does no one see the irony in the “O” zone name when someone brought up a women inclusion issue. This is a low key hilarious response by the park haha.
  • 10 5
 Women can be bro's too... If you're a BRO, you're a BRO. I've got female as well as male bro's. I'm sure many of us do.

But if it's "inclusive" for women that okay right? (ie. Ladies Only). Pull the pacifier from your buttholes and just enjoy riding your bike. Sadly, the world has gone WAY too soft. Maybe try checkers or a road bike..
  • 5 2
 Queenstown should be renamed Q-Town, or Everyonestown, or maybe E-Town? The name's too inclusive...

There's much more important issues to deal with in the world.
  • 8 0
 Should have renamed to "Mullet-Zone"
  • 9 2
 but then the skin heads would get offended
  • 1 1
 @BoneDog: traditionally there's always been more skinheads than bogans in Chch so you're probably right.
  • 11 2
 Ladies only...
  • 6 1
 We had a local trail named "Vomit". After decades of use, one person complained and they changed the trail name. Good thing is that you can name the trail whatever you want on Strava Smile
  • 7 0
 Is the o-zone featured on any maps?

I've heard people often struggle to find it when visiting the adventure park.
  • 9 2
 Trail names are fun, silly and abstract. They don't indicate who can ride the trail. This is so dumb
  • 11 4
 This is some bullshit. People get offended too easily. Go ahead and downvote me if you want.
  • 4 2
 Agreed, you got offended way too easily by a random bike park you'll never visit changing a trail name.
  • 7 0
 Meh. Bro Zone was a stupid name, for the best they changed it regardless of reason.
  • 18 11
 Also let’s be honest what a daft name for a trail anyway.
  • 13 7
 Take change into your own hands and add the "BR" back with a paint pen every visit.
  • 11 3
 Can't ladies be bros?
  • 4 1
 @Haitz I am fairly certain if I rode this trail with my lady shredder friends we would be yelling bro at each other so much out of absolute stoke and joy...
  • 7 1
 Well at least in Simi, CA at Rocky Peak we can keep G-Spot. It's definitely a ride with up's and downs!
  • 6 1
 They should probably just change the name of the park as the name Christchurch would discourage non-Christian riders from going there.
  • 14 12
 Nothing wrong with the name change. Not newsworthy. Similar thing on a trail in innerliethen. Bunch of butt hurt fantasy trump supporters reading an article to get annoyed about a thing. This is just straight bananas for the MTB community. Catnip for cats
  • 10 6
 I can't wait for a trail system called the no woke zone. Seriously. The amount of woke politics infiltrating everything these days is asinine.
  • 5 1
 Here in AZ / so Cal “area” it’s common place to hear girls referring to their other girl friends as bro and using bro as a word that means friend or buddy etc.
  • 7 2
 Being a 'BRO' doesn't mean you have a penis it just means you're one of the homies, shredders, etc.
  • 8 2
 How can people get their panties in a bunch about a trail name?
  • 5 1
 based on the number of comments on this article, a lot.
  • 2 2
 I don't know, ask the 500 pinkbike bros who are getting their panties twisted in this comment section Smile
  • 12 10
 For everyone droning on about how "Bro" and "Dude" are gender neutral, riddle me this: Why have no historically feminine terms converted to being "Gender Neutral"?

How about that, gals by which I mean the 95% males reading this? Do any of you ladies have an answer for that?
  • 9 7
 Quit your bitching.
  • 2 7
flag riderseventy7 (Dec 8, 2021 at 21:11) (Below Threshold)
 @sonuvagun: Because apparently men are the benchmark, so women appropriate their *behaviours. All the while men just continue doing men things, which are, of course, doing and trying stupid small shit, and if it ends up being "cool", then women end up wanting a slice. Or creating, building and supporting big shit from the ground up, that once completed and successful, have women coming along and demanding a slice.

*Or habits, sayings, interests etc
  • 11 7
 They made the right choice. It would be nice if PBers would for once stop whining about people trying to change the industry for the better.
  • 23 21
 I don't like virtue signalling but every change to be more inclusive shouldn't be fought. Let's face it, mountain biking has a systemic problem with diversity, so maybe in some ways we need to over-address it to make some meaningful changes. This is a pretty shallow change, but also really easy so in the balance I'm good with it.
  • 11 5
 It really doesn't. Most guys bend over backwards to try and get their gf's and female friends into riding. It's a simple fact of life, men are more likely to enjoy something like mtb. It's like saying women's makeup has a diversity problem. That's the way the world is. And wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same? Embrace the differences.
  • 7 11
flag HGAB (Dec 8, 2021 at 14:08) (Below Threshold)
 @DylanH93: "men are more likely to enjoy something like MTB" bullshit, quit talking out of your ass
  • 12 3
 @HGAB: He's not. This is the case with all "extreme sports"
  • 9 2
 @HGAB: he doesn't say 'no women like or should like MTB' or 'women that like MTB' shouldn't be supported and encouraged'. He just stated that on average, men have different preferences in hobbies than women. This says nothing about individual men and women, but it does something about the expected distribution of MTB'ers between groups. It's good to encourage women riders and take away barriers, and if naming of trails is really such a barrier (which would surprise me, but I don't think it's totally impossible), it's worth changing it. What we shouldn't do however, is believe that a non 50/50 distribution can only or primarily be attributed to sexism or non-acceptance of women riders. Most people I know, including friends and other local riders, are very enthusiastic about women riders and will go out of their way to support them.
  • 3 2
 This is a great point. Seems like anything more extreme and the pinkbike community might riot though.
  • 4 0
 @HGAB: if acknowledging basic biological reality is talking out of my ass, then call me Ass Face!
  • 1 3
 @DylanH93: So they would bend over backwards to encourage their female friends to ride, but changing a trail name is a step too far? And women are different and should stay in their place because it's better that way?
  • 1 0
 Road to hell is made of good intentions
  • 7 5
 This is not Pb worthy Info. This is just there to agitate. Why put it up ya fucking assses. I used to visit Pb a lot, now very rarely because of shit like this. Who cares, people want to see positive stuff. People having fun riding bikes, not annoyed by some stupid Karen who started a complain campaign. Gf Karen. Pick your shit up Pb. I'm out for a while now. Peace.
  • 3 1
 Note that it's not just the signs themselves that are the issue.

If there are any plans to sell merchandise like t-shirts that include names of trails, having something with a broader appeal can translate directly into more money.

Just wild speculation, but I'd wager that they'd sell a lot more t-shirts with the message "I spent the day riding O-Zone" than "I spent the day riding Bro-Zone".
  • 4 2
 Funny... There's a very popular trail in North Van called "Ladies Only". I haven't heard any backlash about that. It's weird to me that this issue even got past a simple conversation. Let the trail builders name the trails whatever they want.... because they built it...
  • 7 2
 Sweet "The Bro Zone" name for a trail is back up for grabs. Just show the name due respect and make it double black diamond.
  • 5 2
 This trail still discriminates against dogs, smoking, walkers and horses by the looks of that sign. Let me know when this is actually an inclusive trail. This fucking disgusts me that they won't let my horse smoke there.
  • 6 1
 Thanks for changing the name which increases the comfortable nature with my rad gal and other folks I ride with.
  • 4 2
 Shit piss f*ck c*nt cocksucker motherf*cker tits fart turd and twat. Just lyrics to a song but I am VERY offended. I was t before, it I am now. I hope the band and music industry accommodates my hurt feelings by changing the lyrics and re-releasing the entire album. Didn’t stop me from purchasing the album, but still, these are the 2020ies and I am entitled.
  • 6 1
 New take on “Went down hard in the O-zone.”
  • 10 6
 Grab A shovel, dig a trail, name YOUR trail! Dont like the name of the trail, go dig your own.
  • 33 30
 Funny how this article brings out all the old pbikers - the anti-vaxxers, brexitiers and trump supporters. Like flies to shit the perpetually unoffended arrive lol
  • 38 13
 I bet you announce your pronouns when introducing yourself.
  • 9 8
 @carters75: never understood that but im sure its fine
  • 9 3
 @browner This place suddenly turned into a blizzard of snowflakes, over changing an already lame trail name?
  • 2 8
flag mikealive (Dec 8, 2021 at 17:24) (Below Threshold)
 Man, imagine Trump living rent-free in your head for what, 5-6 years now? All of your comments are this bogeyman you've constructed, that if you someone has a different take than you do they must be 'anti vaxxers/Trumpers'.. LOL! Dude, turn off the tele and go touch some grass. I'm being serious. Go for a walk and get some air mate.
  • 8 4
 @mikealive: U butthurt bro? haha. Those issues are living rent free on pink bike - you only have to search back a few months to find the comments
  • 3 8
flag mikealive (Dec 8, 2021 at 17:47) (Below Threshold)
 @browner: Butthurt? Not at all. Genuinely concerned for your mental health? Yes. Yes I am. This is the third story in the past 2 weeks that I can recall (off the top of my head) that you've brought up Trump when there is absolutely no need to. I'm not a Trump fan, didn't vote for him.. but he is your daddy, apparently. I mean by your own account, you're still triggered from comments made months ago. So... yeah.
  • 4 1
 @carters75: you don’t? What is this backward place called the pinkbike comments where all the crazy people get the upvotes. This is not the real world haha.
  • 8 3
 As a chlorofluorocarbon I find the reference to ozone offensive
  • 9 4
 Woke but never awake to reality and real problems.
  • 4 0
 Couldve put a little white out over the bottom bump of the B and made it the pro zone??? but okay.
  • 7 1
 Give your balls a tug!
  • 1 0
 Got a genuine laugh-ou-loud outta me.. heard it in Shoresy's voice, of course
  • 6 1
 do they sell Sharpies in NZ?
  • 6 2
 Guess they don't want to risk any disgruntled woman burning the place down again eh
  • 9 3
 O FFS!
  • 7 2
 We need a famine or something people got to much things to worry about.
  • 10 2
 “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

I think we all know which part of the cycle we are currently in.
  • 1 1
 @carters75: more bike shortages will continue until we grow up.
  • 4 8
flag L0rdTom (Dec 8, 2021 at 14:38) (Below Threshold)
 @carters75: I guess the part that mentions women? That's new uncharted territory from your cycle : /
  • 8 4
 @L0rdTom: @L0rdTom: Virtue signal a little louder Lord White Knight. You MIGHT actually get laid.
  • 3 1
 @carters75: we've got to the point that mentioning the existence of women is now virtue signalling? Lol ok
  • 6 0
 More like Bozo-ne
  • 9 4
 Who's the daft c*nt that got offended enough to complain about this?
  • 2 2
 I don't know, maybe one of the 500 daft c*nts currently getting offended in this comment section that a bike park they will never visit changed the name of a trail they will never ride?

It's not like the change was at the request of actual paying customers who are said bike park's source of revenue, unlike the daft offended PB c*nts or something, right?
  • 6 1
 But now it just sounds like a porn site…
  • 2 1
 Anybody remember the trail “panty waste” at c.o.p. In Calgary like twenty years ago. Always wondered if they got any comments about that one. I’m also wondering about boner logs, might be time to rename that style of booster it makes me feel uncomfortable.
Just a quick note to the truly offended the trail slunt in fernie is actually a word mash of slog and grunt. It is both of those so is truly aptly named although most feel uncomfortable saying it.
  • 6 3
 Western society is in decline. I truly doubt 99% of actual female riders would have had any problems with a name like that. Another grain of sand on a growing heap.
  • 5 1
 Any trails out there called friend-zone? Most guys will want to avoid that trail.
  • 2 1
 1 - Bro Zone was a lame name for a trail, O-Zone sounds better
2 - I would tend to agree that rename it was really virtue signaling more than anything, and fixed point 1
3 - I doubt the name of a trail would keep female riders away if they wanted to ride it
4 - What is the 'non-inclusive' culture I read about ?
I do not dismiss the accusation, I'm just trying to understand what we're talking about based on some concrete facts...there are women on the trails and they seem to enjoy themselves doing exactly the same things that male riders do and sometimes much better (better than me for sure). Also, I haven't seen people being chased off the trails either or even heard about something similar...could it just be that for some reason women do not appreciate riding off road as much as men hence the lower representation? If there's a real elitist/non-inclusive culture on the trails I think this would be a good place to denounce it with clear statements, there are prominent female PinkBike contributors that could provide first hand experience or have a different point of view than the average testosterone afflicted bro. Just sayin'
  • 4 2
 If any woman biker was offended by the previous track name well... Maybe she should consider changing the sport that she does, because being as stiff as a tree trunk does not help in riding a bike.
  • 3 1
 Going forward, all new trails should just be named numerically. The result is that It would save me a lot of time by not having to read so many comments on PB. Hopefully it won’t offend any numerologists.
  • 6 4
 Right wingers: FrEedOm Of SpEaCh!!!!!

A woman or minority: I don’t like this thing

RWers: omg such a snowflake! You can’t say that! You’re so sensitive. Cancel culture run amok!
  • 4 0
 They are free to say they don't like a trail name, but no one should care.
  • 1 2
 @Cerberon: why do you care that others care?
  • 2 1
 That is fu*king ridiculous.... who give a sh*t about a trail name.. as long as you get to ride it who cars... the builders shed blood sweat and tears building this trail so they call it what they want... it's absolutely over the top.. don't bring bloody politics in to mtb.. just be happy sending it.
  • 4 0
 That trail was overzoned.
  • 12 8
 some one should vandalize a "Br" in with a black sharpie.
  • 2 1
 Betting on it
  • 10 6
 Fine but you just inspired us to build something new called the ho-zone
  • 7 2
 Oh brother! What a joke.
  • 1 2
 I think you mean "Oh sister!", right?
  • 6 3
 Of all the stories..... this. Wonder if that sign is biodegradable too....
  • 4 2
 One of my favourite trails is in Golden BC. LYM (Love you Man), I guess we are going to have to get this one changed as well.
  • 3 1
 I'm telling you guys, Musk's recent intrests/trips to Mars is so we can find a spot for all these nut jobs. Oh, CNN & FOX's headquarters will also be moved there.
  • 7 3
 oooh fuck off with this politically correctness bullshit already
  • 5 3
 Who the f*** actually looks at the name of a trail and then decides not to ride it simply due to its name??? Get a life, theres a lot bigger fish to fry
  • 6 3
 Better not MANual up to that trail or SuperMAN any jump as not to offend anyone.
  • 4 2
 I mean. I ride a trail called Hitler's Ballsack that is technical as fuck so I'm gonna take the separate the art from artist approach here.
  • 7 7
 I just love how many “bro’s” there are in this comment section that claim to know loads of girl riders who are totally not offended by the name. Yet I haven’t seen 1 single comment from a girl saying they aren’t bothered. Hmmmm???? So the girls aren’t actually bothered, or the Bro’s don’t actually know any women,,,, hmmmm???
  • 9 1
 Or it could be that few women dare enter the comments section on pink bike.

interesting that people think this comes down to whether or not someone would refuse to ride this trail due to the name. that's unlikely, but doesn't mean it's not a stupid name for a trail area/zone. fixing it was easy and hurts nobody.
  • 4 4
 "The Bro Zone name was criticized as it could discourage women riders from the pro area of the park."

Really? That is the reason? I cannot believe it... how can a biker be such an a-hole. Get offended by a cool name in a bike park. It discourages women, really? I'm sorry but this is pathetic. I don't care how many dislikes I get but I hate people like this ruining everything because they are sad and lonely with lives that do not go anywhere and they want to make others miserable like them. Man f*ck society!
  • 2 2
 Something I can't help but think about, is now a friend and I recently built a trail and deemed it "Boats n Hoes". I couldn't think of anything, but SHE was the one that named it... Keyboard warriors, let's hear it!

I think all of these keyboard warriors, again, need to take a deep breath. Get on your bike and relax and have fun... geez.
  • 2 1
 I just want to say the Christchurch Adventure Park is awesome, they have some really great tracks:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVfp16T20zY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBRlPP-QoTI
  • 1 2
 CAP has just confirmed the word ‘tracks’ will no longer be used as it offends anyone who’s not a train. So yes, they have some really great TRAILS.
  • 2 2
 Me and my riding buddies (guys and gals) call girls who talk like stoner-bashers and are fully kitted up with the 80s looking shades.........wait for it...... we call them Bro! I guess we are going to have to stop saying that..... but we can still call the guy who sprays you with rocks D'ck? Asking for a friend without social media.....
  • 5 2
 I’m sure this comment section will be full of measured, insightful, and totally-not-misogynistic opinions. /s
  • 6 2
 The world has officially gone mad. Let me get off please.
  • 1 0
 "pick me"
  • 3 0
 Now get your sharpies out and rename it weekly - Bro-Zone, Flo-Zone, Ho-Zone, Schmo-Zone, Eenymeenyminymo-Zone...
  • 3 0
 Beta males are taking over mtb, do yall hate men so much the word bro offends?
  • 4 1
 stop giving into the Weak-Minded Cancel Culture Woke.... Rule 7 of life, "You can't make everyone happy"
  • 6 4
 If they just would have called it the Bra-h zone, it would have covered everyone.
  • 13 9
 soft fucks...
  • 11 10
 In this case it cost absolutely nothing to make the trail more inclusive. The sport benefits with the greater participation of everyone.
  • 3 0
 Agreed. You’d think they banned men by the way people are reacting here
  • 7 5
 Lots of people here voicing a lot of concern because a lot of people voiced concern. Grow up.
  • 2 3
 I can see the name gets changed again if some a-hole find it to be sexually offensive. It's like we have a trail that was called Aunt Flo but then it got changed to Diner's Flow once it got sanctioned. Then, nobody knows which trail you're talking about. There should be a Game of Thrones trail system where every trail would be called some sort of c*nt trail. If you don't like it, you can go "f*ck off" as it's stated many times in the series. Big Grin
  • 9 7
 I wonder how many females were involved in the building of that zone, digging, pulling rock, hauling dirt....Jesus
  • 10 6
 Imagine how stupid you would feel if only women had built it. Quit being a jerk
  • 6 4
 @HGAB: Imagine if monkey flew out of my anus.. Let's operate in the realm of reality here, yeah? A few women helped build it? Possibly. All women? Don't be dense for the sake of you entrenched ideologies, yeesh.
  • 3 8
flag HGAB (Dec 8, 2021 at 17:28) (Below Threshold)
 @mikealive: I did not say it happened. I said the possibility is real. So focus less on being a douchebag, and more on just letting good change take place. Whether or not you like it or endorse it, no one cares, so please just shut it.
  • 7 2
 @HGAB: Or what, off to the gulag with me? lol. I made no claim that you said it *happened*, so an odd defense there. I responded to your improbable hypothetical with another improbable hypothetical...the fact that I have to explain this very simple logic is a bit of a let down, honestly.

"Whether or not you like it or endorse it, no one cares, so please just shut it." Ah ok, had not realized I was dealing with Greta Thunburg's little brother. Seriously, are you 12?

Of the couple dozen trail days I've participated in over the past 5 years, female participants have never been more than 20% of the showing, max. Some clubs might be lucky and hit a 50/50 split. You'd know this reality if you ever dug trail, which I'm guessing you don't, because instead you've been brainwashed into thinking that changing letters on a sign is 'making a difference'. Westboro Baptist Church? That's you. Only instead of the church as the compass for your moral superiority, it's the state.
  • 4 2
 @HGAB: I am afraid the odds I am correct are indeed likely, which makes you the jerk
  • 3 1
 The big Question is this international industry news or a newspapers local section story?
  • 6 3
 Hoe-zone. Sorry, couldn’t resist
  • 3 10
flag HGAB (Dec 8, 2021 at 14:04) (Below Threshold)
 Actually you could. Apology not accepted
  • 4 1
 More moaning than a ghost having an Orgasm...
  • 7 4
 I’m so sick of sensitive turds everywhere.
  • 12 7
 Like all the people complaining about the name change here?
  • 6 3
 @furiousstyles: Sadly the irony has been completely lost.
  • 3 1
 You are going to sing it on the trail I guarantee! Wink

youtu.be/YnopHCL1Jk8
  • 4 2
 Jesus H, Smurthwaite! Way to whip the Pinkbike bros into a frenzy on this little tidbit.
  • 4 1
 Cheesy name replaced by an even cheesier one. Well done
  • 4 5
 I'm a man and I'm glad they changed the trail name because I hate the word "bro". I hate being called "bro" (especially by people I don't know)...None of my real friends call me that. I think it's supposed to be an automatic "in" with another person but I find it repellant. I wish there could be a temporary/permanent moratorium placed on "bro", "send-it", and "sick"; unless you're someones brother, you're actually riding something that most riders are unable to ride, or you're physically ill.

Yes, I'm fun at parties...I just dislike annoying social phenomena.
.
  • 4 2
 Lots of people getting offended at the thought of someone else being offended
  • 5 3
 Next up, "white-line" is labeled to offensive to other races....Renamed "Rainbow line"
  • 6 3
 F that place, which suburban white woman got upset?
  • 3 1
 Clicked on this just to read the comments. PB comment zone did not disappoint.
  • 3 2
 The North Shores "Ladies Only" trail has now been renamed "Adies Only" due to customer feedback, along with "Grannies" now being named "Grandparents"
  • 2 2
 In SoCal we call ladies who are friends, "Dude" just as much as we would call a guy a "Dude". On that same note, can they not also be "Bros"? I'm going to test it out this week and see how many black eyes I can get.
  • 3 2
 10000000 bucks the people who came up with the change never ever rode a bicycle in their life !!!!

It’s coming ……

Just wait !
  • 2 0
 Why did you think this made for an interesting article? Literally anything else would be more interesting
  • 1 1
 MTB being a boys club and non inclusive is slowly changing with initiatives like Dark Horse and Formation, etc. This trail name was reinforcing the boys club and it is a good thing it is changed.
  • 2 0
 As if any girl who's gonna hit big jumps is gonna give a care. Rosara Joseph certainly ain't hitting these.
  • 1 0
 as a male and seeing as mostly males ride this trail i feel highly offended ie 1 woman to probably 200+ males... thats 0.5% that means a 0.5% of a vote got this changed.
  • 1 0
 In light of these hurtful events the company Dyedbro decided to take preventative measures not to offend anyone and change its name to Dyld-O
  • 1 0
 I don't like how the "O" that's typically used to represent an Orgasm is not inclusive of those who can't get off. So from Bro to O is actually the most insensitive
  • 1 0
 I've got some great ideas for trail names. Bur for some reason, I think Pinkbike, with their commitment to diversity and inclusion, wouldn't really appreciate them.
  • 3 5
 This was dumb. If the name change was as simple as: “We find the name O-Zone goes better with the trail and how it runs than the original did, which didn’t quite fit well.” Then I would just been like: “okay.” But the problem is it was about about being inclusive to women. Now I love women participating in ANY of the two wheeled sports of the world that are extreme like mountain biking and motocross, but it’s dumb stuff like this that makes me scratch my head. Seriously? We can’t consider a girl mountain biker to be “One of the Bros?” What if they’re trans-gender and identify as a man? Or vice versa. Why can’t “Bro” be used in this sense as “Someone who is cool and/or part of the group.” I’m not saying that the change wasn’t warranted, but I would have made it more about how it sounds better than how it was offensive to women who would ride there. It just feels like the change was more about appealing to a certain crowd of people than to have a better and cooler sounding name. Believe me, I thought the original name was alright, but honestly O-Zone does sound better, and it references my favorite song by Ace Frehley (kind of.) But the name just feels lessened by reason it was changed at all and that honestly upsets me. I’m not begging for it to be changed back, far from it, I just wish the reason that was given for the change didn’t make it seem so damn forced.
  • 3 2
 Ah you make an interesting point, hadn't thought about it like that. The underlying issue is that they could have just changed the name and in reality given *no* reason, and it wouldn't have been a thing outside of that trail system. Instead what CAP did was want the appearance of that sweet, sweet virtue. They needed the recognition, the pat on the back. I would postulate that instead, many people see this as a bending of the knee to illogical and absurd people, thus the irritation at the renaming of the trail.

Rename the trail because 'Bro Zone' was lame. Don't rename it because of some screechers on social media. If I was a betting person I'd wager that there will be a B-R inked on that sign persistently.
  • 4 2
 I don't drive down streets with female sounding names.
  • 4 2
 The robots have already won. Its just a matter of matrix or terminator.
  • 4 2
 Well that’s a kick in vagina.
  • 3 2
 I am so proud of us, we solved sexism. Racism next guys, and of course girls uwu.
  • 2 2
 Everybody is welcome to ride my lovingly crafted trail ORIENTAL PRIVILEGE. It is replete with high sick skinnies #namaste #inclusive
  • 1 0
 Now that the trail is called O-Zone, they should blast the song “Ma Ai Hee” on loud speakers over there.
  • 2 2
 @jaame: There's also this color offensive trail by me called indigo flow. Like can only blue painted bikes ride it? Idk but sound pretty offensive to me.
  • 5 2
 Newspeak 1984
  • 1 5
flag bananowy (Dec 9, 2021 at 7:35) (Below Threshold)
 Tell me you haven't read 1984 without telling me you haven't read 1984. Or anything by Orwell for that matter. Or even anything about Orwell except for a couple of dumb memes.
  • 4 1
 @bananowy:

I read 1984 in 1992 the first time.
  • 1 5
flag bananowy (Dec 9, 2021 at 8:05) (Below Threshold)
 @mikaeljc: Then you either need a refresh - understandable after 30 years - or you were too young to understand it? I mean come on... comparing this trail name change and the reasons for it to newspeak is so far off the mark that either you completely missed the book's point or you're trolling on purpose.

I don't like making assumptions but I suspect (and sorry if I'm wrong) that you're one of those people who attribute views to Orwell he could not have been further from. He would almost certainly support the bike park's decision if he was alive and could be arsed with trivial stuff like this.
  • 4 1
 @bananowy:

I agree with Orwell that language can have an effect on the thought.

I don’t care about a trail name. I only observe the larger trends.
  • 2 3
 @mikaeljc: We're finally getting somewhere Smile Of course language affects thought. It's pretty much accepted as fact at this point so not much to "agree" or "disagree" with. Linguists knew that without Orwell's help but it's great that he brought it to the mainstream. Language influencing thought and reality is the exact reason why the trail name was changed and why it's a good thing.

You might not care about a trail name, some do. And it's fine. I find it a bit self-contradictory when you accept that language has an effect on people, yet dismiss it when others do the same thing and consider that effect in their own use of language.

I still maintain there is close to zero analogy between this name change and newspeak by the way.
  • 2 2
 @bananowy:

I don't think the naming of the trail (lame name btw) was politically driven.

However I'm convinced the renaming was.

Hence newspeak resembles.
  • 2 2
 @mikaeljc: if you've ever ridden at Chch adv park you would know that they have a female CEO, and a great number of families and women's clubs, and women's groups training and riding there. I think the name change is basically not political but practical. You wouldn't buy a product with a sexist name these days and that is what this is.
  • 3 2
 @browner: if bro zone is sexist. The word sexist has a new meaning. Newspeak.
  • 2 4
 @mikaeljc: The renaming of that trail had exactly zero to do with politics. Hence no resemblance to newspeak. Just because you wish the issue that caused it was political, doesn't make it so.

Frankly, even if it was political (which it isn't) it would have nothing in common with newspeak. You're still proving you do not understand what newspeak was, how it worked, the mechanics of imposing it, the purpose of it... nothing.

If anything, this name change is closer to the opposite or, shall I say, undoing newspeak in its intent.

Honestly, go re-read the book now as a grown up.

EDIT as to your other comment:
The word sexist does not have a different meaning. No newspeak here. Bro zone literally means a zone for men. In a bike park. It is sexist. And changing it to sell product after complaints by paying consumers of said product could not be further from politics.
  • 3 3
 Bro!! that is so over the top! Who cares what a trail is called its not like women are getting banned from riding bike parks. WTF is happening to the world
  • 2 1
 Omg, boys built a trail, named it as its builder's right. I guess girls can grab shovels as well.
  • 2 1
 just of of interest i'd like someone in Queenstown to do a poll, see what % of women are now hitting 'O-zone'
  • 2 1
 This just in.....The world has officially lost its mind! Long live the BroZone Yewwwwwww!!
  • 1 1
 If a trail sign on a bicycle trail offends you, you’re doing it wrong. Honestly, who gives one shit about social media….. it’s not even real life.
  • 1 1
 i'm clearly offended that i cannot walk the trail with my dog while smoking and following my love horseback riding. Less freedom, more inclusion!!!!
  • 2 0
 Reading these comments...Pinkbike should change it's name to "Bro-Zone"
  • 2 0
 shouldn't have caved to these idiots...
  • 2 0
 of course dumb hack Karens are going to find something to bitch about.
  • 2 0
 Women always gotta to be ruining good things
  • 2 0
 Amazing what a few loud voices can do
  • 2 0
 Easily offended generation strikes again…..
  • 1 0
 time to sing the song......"you .....can..... stick your social correctness up your arse......!!!"

CM!
  • 3 1
 Bro Out.!
  • 6 6
 it's just a trail name, why does everyone have to get so offended by it. It is just the name it isn't trying to say anything
  • 3 2
 First they took the Trail signs, then they took my father.
  • 5 5
 WW3 is coming when the Wokeness reaches these extremities look at the fall of the Roman EMpire
  • 7 6
 I'm offended by "Ladies Only"...
  • 2 1
 What's the female word for bro?
  • 7 6
 im pretty sure its bro…bro is gender neutral like dude
  • 1 2
 @Gregorysmithj1: my point being exactly that. Although i hear a lot of "you go gurl" so maybe its that? Even dude has been turned into Dudette or something along those lines.
  • 6 4
 @Gregorysmithj1: Why do all "gender neutral" terms originally described men?
  • 3 2
 @furiousstyles: because women were included afterwards with the men, but men aren't yet included with the women
  • 5 4
 @Mac1987: You are missing the point. And no, men are not "excluded"
  • 6 4
 @furiousstyles: you are missing the point. There's a difference between being excluded and not being included (the former is far worse). Society has historically been more focussed on had men than women. Most 'things with now gender neutral meaning' were primarily done by men. With progress, women were included into those areas, resulting in the existing wording now implicitly including women. Nobody thinks of only men when talking about 'manpower' or 'mankind'. However, wording for women specific things are still primarily focussed on women. 'Brothers in arms' nowadays means including both men and women fellow soldiers. 'Sisters in arms' still implies women soldiers only, not including men. So nothing I said is wrong.
  • 3 4
 @Mac1987: Cool story, ma'am.
  • 4 0
 Bro's & Betty's came out of Surf Culture long ago and yes they were originally gender specific.
Now this Bro is going to take my Betty off for a ride to the O-Zone. 'Night.
  • 1 1
 This comment section gives me cancer, it's a trail in New Zealand. Everyone gets called "bro"
  • 3 3
 Graffiti Ninjas, putting your reputations on the line and sacrificing your sharpies for the "Bro" cause - I salute you!
  • 3 1
 Yeah! Good work!
  • 1 0
 O-ZONE, sounds more like a trampoline park more than it does a MTB trail!
  • 1 2
 Uhm.. could some customer (guy), please, make a claim about being iffended by the new name O-zone ?

Just interesting, will it be renamed...
  • 4 3
 Censorship of the PB comments section is not too far off
  • 1 2
 "Below threshold posts are hidden"

Have a look at them and see who is doing the censoring, you'll find the true cancel-culture is coming from the 'pro-bro' brigade.
  • 3 3
 Spicy Chicken at Trestle offends me since I don't eat meat. Please change the name.
  • 3 2
 The "OooOOoOOoooo - Zone"
I wonder if the trail squirts
  • 4 3
 Cancel culture in bike industry BS…
  • 3 3
 The world is full of people with no backbone. Everyone is offended by anything. So sad.
  • 1 1
 lets change Fort William world cup name, I believe with the money of the new plate in O-zone you can do better things.
  • 2 0
 No BDE there
  • 3 3
 What about "ladies only" trail???? Change the name whaaaa so offended, so non inclusive!!! *angry 5yo noises*
  • 1 1
 i like it when people lose the essence of things....like already written: " First World Problems"....
  • 2 2
 Welcome to a comment zone filled with people you would quickly run away from at a party.
  • 1 0
 Call it Herman, that’s right, divide zero by zero.
  • 2 0
 Comment section=BroZone
  • 1 0
 What a shit show this is......SMH
  • 1 0
 gotta be a record for number of comments....
  • 2 1
 Well, it was a pretty lame name.
  • 4 3
 oh-face
  • 1 0
 nice trail
  • 1 1
 Bro Zone to O Zone? How bout O Zone to O face! yea baby..
  • 4 4
 We've been consumed by the plot of Portlandia.
  • 2 1
 MTB is new age for DB
  • 4 0
 Is that short for douche bag?
  • 3 5
 OK, Boomers. Women and men are all bros now. Try hanging out with some younger people before making decisions that make you look like a fogey.
  • 1 1
 How thoughtful . Makes me proud to be a wanna - be mountain biker .
  • 3 3
 Inclusive, what about people who can't climax?
  • 1 1
 So Broz before Oz I guess.
  • 1 1
 Anyone know how the Cleveland GUARDIANS are doing this year?
  • 2 1
 fck this shit
  • 2 3
 These comments are gross. The re naming was just common sense and if u disagree ur weird.
  • 5 6
 Totally misses the point dopey unts.
  • 9 11
 Pretty tone deaf name given the hole in the ozone layer over Aotearoa.
I would suggest "Tech Zone" or "Difficult Zone"
  • 5 6
 sigh, we pleased the women now we have to please the enviromentals haha
  • 3 4
 The actual name of the trail doesn't matter, only what the locals call it.
  • 34 36
 When will you cover the Kyle Warner story?
  • 10 8
 People giving neg props like they just don’t want to hear it
  • 16 4
 @mtnbykr05: honestly it's just people who have heard it a thousand times already and are sick of people who don't actually care so much about Kyle Warner's health as much as they do about their own agenda pushing it.

Bro-zone is also a sad attempt at a trail name. Was the team that built and named it exclusively 8 year old kids and 50 year old middle managers?
  • 2 4
 what about Bruh -zone or bra-zone settle on sibling zone ?
  • 3 5
 You wanna be offended? Duck you all!
  • 2 4
 Make it a pump track, all inclusive
  • 4 5
 Call it the Ho-Zone.
  • 1 3
 damb mountain biking is hurting....
  • 4 5
 That is so lame.
  • 4 5
 cancel culture
  • 2 3
 crazy people
  • 2 3
 Who built it?
  • 4 7
 Whelp… that solves everything.
  • 13 16
 Just make the jumps smaller! So everyone can ride them!
  • 4 2
 Better yet: pave it.
  • 1 1
 @Michvin: pave the rain forests
  • 2 0
 @Middnight: YES! that way everyone can ride!
  • 2 5
 Man things bad... "Man" not real... All same
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