Driven Reaches $1 Million USD Crowd Funding Goal in Just 2 Days & Says it is "Used to the Haters"

May 11, 2021 at 5:59
by James Smurthwaite  

At the end of April, we reported that Driven, a spin-off of CeramicSpeed, was hoping to crowdfund at least $300,000 USD for its chainless drivetrain.

First shown at Eurobike in 2018, Driven replaces the chain on a traditional drivetrain with a driveshaft that is claimed to offer 99% efficiency. The design was created alongside the University of Colorado Mechanical Engineering Department and Ceramic Speed claims it has all the benefits of a gearbox with none of the drag that comes along with it. More info on the concept can be found, here.

Unfortunately, the cost of developing the project grew too high for CeramicSpeed to fund so it spun off the project into the Driven company and sought crowdfunding from the cycling community. The minimum amount needed to raise for the project to continue was $300,000 USD but it actually raised $1 million USD in its first 2 days and currently a further US$600,000 has been received in over-subscriptions that are now on a waitlist in case earlier investors fall through.

CeramicSpeed claims this is the fastest ever fundraise in SeedInvest's history despite a fair amount of criticism about the announcement. However, Jason Smith, Driven CEO, told Cycling Tips he was "used to the haters" and explained, "we always come up with innovative solutions to the design challenges. And then the haters move on to something else Driven can’t do.

"People look at where Driven is right now, this second, and yes, of course, the cog teeth are too skinny. Of course, the bearings can’t hold that much load… What people forget is that this is not the final product. It’s Driven’s job to solve today’s challenges, for tomorrow’s revision, and the next revision, which I’m confident we will.”


This is the second incredibly rapid crowdfunding we've seen in recent months with Atherton Bikes raising more than $1.3 million USD and hitting their funding target in just 3 hours. It's no secret that the cycling industry is in rude health and it's clear that investors are hoping to pick up a slice of that. We wouldn't be surprised to see a number of similar campaigns continue to crop up throughout the next couple of years but remember, investment always comes with a dose of risk and there's absolutely no guarantee you'll see a return on your money no matter the state of the industry - especially on projects where working, finished versions are yet to be shown.

As for CeramicSpeed, it is hoping to have a working prototype by the end of the year and expects to now have enough funding to see the product through to manufacturing.


186 Comments

  • 529 10
 I’m building a rocket ship capable of reaching Saturn and will build a luxury space hotel there. I need $10 billion in crowd funding.

Now I hear you say, “the technology doesn’t exist” and “your prototype was a cardboard box”. What people forget is that this is not the final product. It’s our job to solve today’s challenges, for tomorrow’s revision, and the next revision, which I’m confident we will.”
  • 180 1
 @rickybobby18: Dammit son! So American your piss must smell like hot dogs and freedom!!!
  • 73 4
 @Grosey: Mine doesn't. I only know this because your comment made me laugh so hard that a little bit came out.
  • 11 11
 if ya first name happen to be Elon then take my money Wink
  • 29 0
 @vemegen: elonbobby18 entered chat
  • 3 0
 Do an ICO on the Blockchain and you'll hit your target
  • 13 0
 @mark4444: Just sell it as a NFT
  • 29 0
 Where do I send my check? I should be getting a bundle soon. Some prince in West Africa said he can send me 1 mill if I just give him my details and $500.
  • 2 0
 Consider this men to be the chuck Norris of aerospace!
  • 2 1
 If only crowd funding had existed in olden times:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNaXdLWt17A
  • 2 0
 @Grosey: The piss in sunlight may turn the yellow into rainbow colors! Big Grin
  • 3 0
 Excellent choice on Saturn instead of Uranus.
  • 1 0
 But can I pay you with DOGE?
  • 2 0
 @Grosey: And Apple pie.
  • 1 0
 Aaaand there's A LOT of dumb people who bought it. It's good for the economy, right?
  • 205 1
 Any kind of legitimate criticism, concern or questions : HATERS
  • 83 0
 Seems totally in line with modern times
  • 13 0
 ha ha even the mainstream public is catching up. apocalypse is near
  • 16 2
 Voicing opinion -> hate
I bet some of the haters are bike mechanics and people like me that see nothing wrong or bad with the current available tech.
  • 13 1
 Why not both? Why not haters and legit criticism of what seems like outlandish technology?

These guys raised over a million dollars, not even on snake oil, but on the promise that they will deliver on snake oil at some undetermined point in the future. What did you do this year?
  • 7 0
 @hamncheez: i'm theorizing if it were up front like a gearbox and enclosed it could be a legit thing.

but the fact original post didn't get a single neg prop amuses me a lot
  • 6 72
flag DoubleCrownAddict (May 11, 2021 at 9:46) (Below Threshold)
 The primary haters the owner is referring to are probably the retro grouches who love crap-ass derailleurs, want to stay with them forever, and don't want to see the sport progress technologically. These people, along with SRAMano, need to be intellectually and technologically DESTROYED, along with all the crappy mtb derailleur systems marketed on the planet.

The sooner we can rid the mtb world of derailleurs, the sooner we can deal with other problems like global warming. But derailleurs need to be dealt with first. Alot is riding on this, so stop the criticism and get on board.
  • 48 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You can hate derailleurs and still be EXTREMELY skeptical of this design.

Obviously they haven't fully enclosed it because they are showing off the technology. But even when they do, its going to jump and skip under any decent load. Bevel gears need a lot of stiffness and have low tolerances for flex. I also don't see any realistic way they are going to shift gears without a bearing-bevel spur gear AT EVERY gear, and have the selection mechanism be internal. This will mean all gears are always engaged partially, just like a regular gearbox, and would negate any efficiency claims they have.

They also have yet to show any working prototypes, other than one grainy video taken from so far away you can't see the bike at all. At this point I'd be less shocked to find a living Bigfoot specimen than for this to ever make it to market as a viable product that meets half its current claims.

That being said, they raised a million dollars and I've done nothing, so I do still give them some respect.
  • 6 2
 Better call Cancel Culture Club! To the Karma Chameleon phone!
  • 18 1
 To question reality = hate!!!
I can understand this if they have a working prototype but at this point it’s still an idea.......Seems a little thin skinned to me
  • 6 0
 What's interesting is that before I read this article, I had no opinion whatsoever about this technology. Now that I've read what they have to say, I'm secretly hoping that they fail spectacularly. That's sort of messed up, but obviously not my fault, either.
  • 3 0
 @baca262: they do say history has proven that just before the fall of every civilizazation they seem to go into panic mode and start recycling shit
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: Classic bevel gears are also, critically, chamfered so the engagement is even between the two rotating centres. Otherwise you either have almost no surface contact, you're trying to spin the 'cassette' at different speeds at the same time, or you have only 1 ratio like a diff.
  • 2 0
 @chezotron: By George, where did that statement come from??
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Bro... derailleurs need to be dealt with before global warming? One problem isn't a problem and the other is causing villages to fall into the sea. Really, please go away.

www.pri.org/stories/2018-10-22/alaskan-village-falling-sea-washington-looking-other-way#:~:text=Shishmaref%2C%20Alaska%2C%20home%20to%20a,of%20other%20US%20coastal%20communities.
  • 2 1
 @rivercitycycles: But they showed a working model ata cycle show three years ago! lol
  • 1 0
 @gnarlysipes: so they haven’t progressed far into the product design cycle in three years!!!!
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: skip drivetrains altogether. Go chainless!!!
  • 119 0
 The CEO sounds like he should go fund himself.
  • 33 0
 That's the real plan LOL
  • 106 1
 What a mature press release. Matches the maturity of the product.
  • 65 0
 What people forget is that this is not the final press release. Its job is to solve today’s challenges, for tomorrow’s revision, and the next revision, which I’m confident it will. Haters gonna hate.
  • 4 0
 A future in politics is in your future
  • 62 5
 What kind of a maniac pushes forward without any reflection, only pointing out "haters". I'd say their primary job now would be to explain the idea to those in doubt or sceptical, not just ride forward on the hype and cash of those hurra-optimistic. Many, many people pointed out major flaws in this idea, even as basic as the fact that bearings have races made of steel so hard, they'd eat this cassette-thing alive. Bike industry is littered with "engineers" coming up with more and more stupid and underdeveloped ideaas. And this is another one of them.
  • 30 31
 Im right with you, totally agree. Thats why I ride a fixie with a flip flop hub, keep those damn engineers away from my bike trying to ruin the sport with innovation and development. Technology peaked in the 30's and shouldn't be developed or reevaluated after that point.
  • 44 1
 @LocalBustyGrandpa: You're being sarcastic now, but if you had a chance to see a BB30, alluminum crank axle chewed by steel bearing it run in, maybe a carbon bar fractured because the stem didn't had a chamfer on its' edges or maybe a Magura brake lever body designed to sacriface THE MOST EXPENSIVE piece in case a simple bolt cross-threads, you'd belive that bike industry clearly lacks the common engineering experience. Innovation is good and needed, but more than not the execution is f***kin out of whack.
  • 11 23
flag LocalBustyGrandpa (May 11, 2021 at 6:56) (Below Threshold)
 @SanitariuszMariusz: I was being sarcastic but as an engineer I know that this system is still in its infancy, most new pieces of innovation looks like dog eggs with a pile of faults that need to designed around. Ceramic speed was very clear that this was a demonstration project to provide an example of a traditional drivetrain alternative. Now its been picked up by another design entity and received private funding to continue R&D. Your examples about failed production designs make me think you are unaware that this project is still an early R&D proof of concept and in reality would look completely different in production that address some of the major issues seen from this draft. But maybe you'll be right and we will Cannondale announce that their new TT bike next week.
  • 13 1
 @LocalBustyGrandpa: You must be new here.
  • 2 0
 @SanitariuszMariusz: suckers still can't make a fork that doesn't stick slip and it's the only thing that's needed in practice
  • 8 0
 @LocalBustyGrandpa: most of the "Dog's breakfast" lookalike innovations die before anyone sees them. Creamicspeed chose to show an unfinished product to the public, and it's obvious that the concept has severe issues that would prevent it from working ever in a shape that is close to what they presented. There's just so many stopping points, yet Ceramicspeed is happy to emphasize the super high efficiency... False advertising at its' best.
As such, this idea should've been culled instead of being pushed as a crowdfunding proposal.
  • 3 0
 @SanitariuszMariusz You must be confused. Today's challenge is working out how to funnel the crowdfunding money into their bank accounts. Tomorrow's revision is working out how how to spruik the next round of crowdfunding, as is the next revision, which I am confident they will deliver on. An actual usable product on the other hand... not so much!
  • 1 1
 @dsut4392: I wonder if you all like the press, say a bunch a shit out of your ass, then when your wrong act like it never happen, don't apologize.
  • 1 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: you spelled it wrong, he’s the EX-pres, and no, I never liked him.
  • 1 0
 @dsut4392: No I didn't spell it wrong.
7 a : the gathering and publishing or broadcasting of news : journalism
b : newspapers, periodicals, and often radio and television news broadcasting
c : news reporters, publishers, and broadcasters

Talk about TDS.
  • 51 0
 So roadies didn't want disc brakes as they thought they were dangerous, but are ok with a gigantic meat grinder? is it just me or are roadies weird?
  • 18 0
 road and mtber here: can confirm, roadies are weird, both before and after wanting meat grinders
  • 5 0
 Roadies were used to have their bikes keep a certain value way beyond their release year (just look at the used ones). With disc brakes the u brake used ones are not selling anymore and prices slashed. It hurts.
  • 12 0
 Yeah but mountain bikers are just a perfectly rational lot, never once screeching and throwing their poo at something because it's new and unfamiliar. Big Grin
  • 1 1
 What do you mean by "thought they were dangerous"? I thought it was a weight thing they didn't like but now realize the performance benefits? I'll never completely understand the roadies haha.
  • 4 0
 @DylanH93: Lol I ride road and mtb and never understood why disc brakes aren't more popular. Maybe I'm used to the power of them?
  • 3 0
 @DylanH93: they were worried that in a group crash there would be some slicing and dicing going on.
  • 33 1
 I want this to work, can't wait to actually be able to shred.....vegetables that is.
  • 8 0
 Don't we already have the Slap Chop for that?
  • 26 0
 guess people dont know what to do with their money. seems to be a risky investment to me
  • 59 1
 crowd funding is a disguised Ponzi scheme
  • 6 0
 After several unsuccessful google searches, I realized that when it comes to business jargon I'm not even knowledgeable enough to even search how many crowd funded projects actually achieve a viable commercial product and are still operating successfully, say 5-10 years after. Anyone know?
  • 22 0
 @Narro2: I mean, they offloaded the whole thing into a new company, which instills a lot of confidence...
  • 10 0
 @kcy4130: I know right?, it all depends on what you call successful, I have a relative living off that, he's a very smart engineer, but has never stepped a foot on a factory after he finished college, he is just jumping from one crowdfunded project to another. From his perspective crowdfunding is successful.
  • 1 0
 @kcy4130: I don't know but it's a great question, on Kickstarter the amount that got funded was 38%, which is way too high for selling dreams.
  • 4 0
 @Narro2: Your description of your relative reminds me of college (mech engineer). Half the time projects didn't need to be viable, practical, well engineered, or even functional. As long as the renders looked good and the presentation/paper were professional that's all that mattered. I hated that, appearances over substance. By the end I was so ready to be done with academics and be in the real world where my designs actually got built, tested, and used. Not to say your relative's work is academic and not useful, just that it reminded me of it.
  • 2 0
 @kcy4130: I don’t remember if it’s Astebro et al. 2010 or 2014, but they did a longitudinal study examining venture-backed startups 5 and 10 years later. I know venture-backed isn’t a perfect proxy for crowd-funded, but the process is likely much more stringent than crowd-funding, and even there, the expected value for any given venture 10 years on was -$450,000. I’m guessing it’s got to be similar or even worse for crowd-funded ventures.
  • 15 2
 I got into a rabit hole researching on this topic…

From what I was able to look into there are 3 way to measure the “success” of kicktarters

1.It got or surpassed the amount of cash it originally requested, this is a success from kickstarter.com or crowdfunding.com or whatever the websites are called point of view, from my perspective this is BS, but to each their own.

2.The crowdfunded money was used to start or help the company grow and the company is now and has been for a few years in black numbers, operating normally with recurring customers (which is what I think @kcy4130 meant to find out). The video game Shovel Knight is the only truly successful example I was able to find.

3.The money helps start the company and then a bigger company like Facebook or Amazon buys them off to deduce taxes, it doesn’t matter if the company is in the red or making money, as longs as it is a potential tech property which could help in the future, they might as well own it and shelve it for years or maybe forever. Robert Bosch operates this way with its 50,000 patents, they don’t use all of the 50,000 patents all the time, they have them there for when is necessary, the Bosch eMTB motor would be a good example, those motors are a composite of a lot of patents that Bosch had handy and this way Bosch was able to put eMTB motors relatively fast on the market and get their relatively big market share.

IMO Driven will fall into the last case, a bigger company is going to buy their company with its patents and shelve them for when is necessary. Is it a success? for us Pinkers if it doesn’t come out to the market in our lifetime it will be not successful, for the founders and investors it depends on how much cash they get back when they get bought off.
  • 3 0
 @kcy4130: hahaha, yeah same here, looks is what mattered, but thats what college is, it is all pretend, so you can be ready for when you are out in the real life.
  • 2 0
 @Narro2: bitcoin is a ponzi scheme through and through, most shares are really in a way, the value of a company isn't reflected on its worth but on how much money is being invested in it.
  • 24 1
 I want an Allen Millyard single sided internal sealed gearbox instead. Let's give Allen a million bucks
  • 2 0
 This is the answer.
  • 15 1
 It’s an interesting design challenge. I’m sure with enough revision it can be made into something viable. The real challenge will be fining an oem to design a production model around it. It’s not retrofittable so you’ll be designing bikes around it. I don’t see a large production company jumping on board until there is a big consumer push, maybe someone small making a handful of models around it, but it’ll need to win at TDF or have a bunch of Ironman athletes make a splash large enough to disrupt the current status quo.
  • 5 3
 it would be cool to see this system after a couple more years of development and testing. This is an early draft
  • 4 0
 This right here is the biggest hurdle. Finding someone to make a frame designed around this system AND get it sold that the frame mfr stays around.
  • 1 0
 @NorCalNomad: as someone who has worked in bike shops since the 90s I’ve seen a lot of unsupported tech (Shimano Rising Rate immediately comes to mind) that we have to replace with available hardware. Only problem is once you design a frame around a product good luck if it becomes unsupported in a few years.
  • 2 1
 @NorCalNomad: I totally agree, I don't see this being the next big thing with all bike frame designed around this in 10 years, but if it truly is faster i could see TT, track and triathlon bikes adopting this design if the benefits are true. The system is supposedly faster when looking at drivetrain friction and can probably be made more aero.
  • 1 0
 Agreed, they aren't really addressing the key problem with gearboxes right now - you need a gearbox-specific frame.
  • 1 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: you mean shimamo rapid rise? What was unsupported about that? RR worked with normal shifters, just solved a problem few had so it quietly went away, almost as fast as dual control went away
  • 1 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: design a bike around it, add a mech hanger, done.
  • 1 0
 @LocalBustyGrandpa: You may not see it but you'll definitely hear it as soon as any dust or dirt gets between one of the bearing faces and the cassette. Chain always wins.
  • 2 0
 Another rando trying to make some noise and get noticed. Great college project, but not a realistic solution. How well will this work in the real world with dirt, water, etc.? What is the cost to benefit ratio? A quick search shows ~95% efficiency from a traditional chain driven system... Better to look elsewhere. How about KERS in our hubs instead!?
  • 1 0
 @NorCalNomad: I could see Cannondale getting pretty excited about this.
  • 12 0
 If the rear cassette is basically flat, it seems like it would be better to put all of that on the inside of the front chainring instead. Hide the spikes away, reduce unsprung weight, and it would look cooler. That's my opinion anyway but if they do all that and sell it for less than the cost of a ceramic speed jockey wheel, I'll give them a million bucks myself
  • 9 0
 The tricky bit there is that a large front "chainring" minimizes the amount of torque transmitted through the shaft and thus force through those so-very-tiny ball bearings. If the "cassette" was up front the smaller cogs would result in 2-3x the current torque going through the driveshaft, which given they currently can't handle riding loads with those so-very-tiny ball bearings would be a problem.
  • 4 0
 hm you seem to not understand how gears work and why the larger ones go in the back. auto.howstuffworks.com/gears.htm
  • 62 1
 @NorCalNomad: Don't be a hater man, I'll figure out those minor details once you give me a million bucks
  • 3 0
 @WhoTookIt: It makes no difference to the torque through the shaft (or chain tension) whether you achieve your final drive ratio through gearing at the 'front' or 'back' of the system, only on the ratio between input (pedal crank rotations) and output gears (wheel rotations, assuming you're not running an internal gear hub!). The torque at the front and back end of the shaft is the same at any given time. If you want to reduce the load on the bearings, you'll either need to increase the final drive ratio (good luck pedalling up hills since you've lost your low gear!), increase the radius at the crank shaft-cassette interface (say hello to increased size and weight. Increase the radius by 2 and you halve the force at each bearing for any given shaft torque and reduce wear by a factor of 4 as there are twice as many bearings/teeth. But the weight of the 'cassette' also quadruples...), or you could also reduce the shaft torque by increasing the rotational speed, but then your bearings need to get even smaller (or cassette and 'chainring' both get bigger) and frictional losses increase.
TL/DR? There really is no free lunch.
  • 2 1
 @dsut4392: actually, no. The torque is also determined by the ratio of the shaft "teeth" to the casette and "chainring" teeth. If the ratio gets bigger, it means that the shaft is spinning faster with a lower torque transmitted by it.
The ratio of front and back teeth only determines total drive ratio.
  • 1 0
 @Kainerm: You say “actually no”, then go and say exactly what I said at the end of my post. Whoops.
  • 14 0
 Looks Doge to me.
  • 5 0
 Dunno...the idea is kind of NFT-y.
  • 11 2
 So, you design is fundamentally flawed in terms of durability, practicality and functionality but those are just details to work out in 'later iterations'. At the very least for a mountain bike this drivetrain is ridiculous. Besides the fact that chain tension and how it interacts with your suspension is VITAL to designing a well functioning suspension when pedaling, how liking is it that you could take out the drive bearings on the shaft with a rock? And how are you possibly going to make the cassette stiff enough to when really applying high torque loads grinding up a steep technical climb or sprinting out of the saddle. And what is the advantage of this design? It is not efficiency, anyone buying that knows nothing about how ridiculously efficient chains are. At least with gear boxes you get the potential for better weight distribution, durability, and lower maintenance. I still argue none of that makes up for the loss of efficiency with a gear box. However, that is a debatable point depending on how/where you ride, so pursuing better gear boxes/internal transmissions makes a lot of sense, especially now that we have e-bikes where efficiency becomes less important. This thing simply 'looks cool', and that's really it. The end result of this drivetrain is either going to be something way too fragile to be practical, or way too heavy to be practical (or maybe even both), with no clear advantages or differentiators to make you want it over traditional chain/derailleur drivetrains, or even non-traditional gearboxes. I feel bad for the people that wasted their money funding this project. They were duped by a pretty piece of art.
  • 3 0
 Woah lets not throw common sense around on pinkbike, just looking at it I can see a few issues that can't be overcome with modern technology.
1. There would be noticable drag in those little bearings if they are all sealed, if they aren't then they will sieze very easily.
2. The bearings don't positively engage with the 'chainrings', so under high torque loads the cassette, drive ring and/or chainstay will flex causing the drive to either slip or change gear unexpectedly, which will be disasterous.
3. The design can't work with suspension without introducing horrendous complexity in the design, which is a huge market limitation.
4. The design has many more moving parts than a chain drive and would be very expensive to maintain or repair, would also need repairing more often.
5. The accessibility to the gear actuator would be difficult and hard to access to service.
6. The design won't be any more efficient or less problematic than a chain drive.
7. The drive shaft basically necessitates the use of carbon for the required stiffness and weight, increasing cost and environmental impact.
8. The gears could shift unexpectedly if the chainstay flexes.

There's probably a heap more issues...
  • 9 1
 Maybe we can also start a GoFundMe so this guy can get some counseling. The 'haters' seem to have really hurt him, so we might need more than a million dollars worth of sessions.
  • 8 1
 Just think of all the Atherton bikes we see rolling around. They took over a company that already had a working effective technology and we've yet to hear of them producing anything. Just a lot of Atherton name hype.
  • 7 1
 People who call out very obvious flaws and potential weaknesses in your product aren't "haters". This arrogance is going to be the final nail in the coffin for them. How ever good this might be, I'm not gonna buy one.
  • 6 1
 I just don't get it. Innovation and advancement are supposed to make things better, solve a problem, or reduce costs/complexity. This concept doesn't do any of that. While better could be subjective, this introduces problems, and increases costs/complexity. If you are going to blow a million bucks on something, why not something that offers a more significant improvement or at least has a chance of being successful. If you could drop a cool mil on a gearbox, it would be freaking sweet!
  • 7 1
 Be interesting to see how it handles a savage rock garden followed by various big drop features. Failing that it'll look nice as a ceiling fan in my mancave.
  • 4 0
 On a road bike this could totally be fine. The unexpected torques, off-camber landings and unbalanced forces of mountain biking.. well I'll be curious to see how they address those in a meaningful way. Not saying I don't believe. I love new ideas, but there's a lot of address here.
  • 1 0
 @alexsin: Well, there is always the option to design something like this, right?
www.amazon.com/Maier-USA-Suzuki-DRZ400E-DRZ400S/dp/B074MJW9NR
I mean, wouldn't be the most sexy, but i guess there is something to tackle that problem..
  • 8 1
 Whatever, it's totally gambling, but it's fun. Maybe it'll work. I doubt anyone is losing their house over this.
  • 8 0
 Dude, it’s engaged on like 1.5 teeth.
  • 3 0
 You missed my point
  • 6 0
 As with all/most crowdfunding projects that don't go into production, they'll post some updates here and there and then disappear in about a year.
  • 8 2
 Wow I can't believe this actually got funded. With that kind of money, one can develop a superior gearbox transmission, which is something people actually would want.
  • 8 1
 If you’ve even entertained the possibility that you have “haters,” you deserve haters.
  • 4 0
 - "Used to haters" Big Grin I hope you know, that a lot of engineers, working in bigger companies are reading this stuff and laughing their ass of every time. There are not small design details, that have to be changed. The basis concept is too far from feasable or eve feasable. It´s not about increasing a bearing, cause there is no choosable one for example. The drivetrain will basicly look like, from a motorcycle. If I want to shoot you with a 50 bmg there is no body armour to choose for you to handle that. If you run your car of a cliff there is no savety system to choose, that the driver will survive.
- OK little too far, but as long, as you are not a "new normal" engineer, you stop at a point when basic details are not solvable. Don´t get me wrong, that I´m really fighting on details when the concept (or better the result) looks promising as hell, like on this one. But when there are major things, that make this product too heavy or too exensive, I just need to f...ing stop. And I mean 4kg instead of 500g or 5000$ instead of 200$ for example.
- And my 2 cents for the comparrison with a normal shaft drive. This has not much in common with a normal one. Cause here (CS) we have Teeth to bearing contact and normaly 45° gear to 45°gear. Which is transferable load and wearwise a complete different case.
- And sure I´m a 100% full prove hater of the company and their products. Cause I´m an engineer and I guess every engineer here thinks the same. And I had no problem with presenting a concept that may increase the creative mind of the industry. First thought "doesn´t work but looks sweet. Nice job", but collect money from riders that may have no technical understanding, and beleave in their message is too much
  • 4 1
 Shaft driven motorcycles have been around for at least 100 years and they are uniformly heavier and less efficient than chain drive but it doesn't matter except for racing since you have a motor. So the likelihood of this working out for pedal only bikes is about zero. If it ever goes into production it will be for e-bikes and it will be heavier and less efficient but could have some other benefit.
  • 2 2
 In essence this drive train is a chain. It doesnt have any gears like a motorcycle with a drive shaft.
  • 1 0
 I see this as a possibility for commuter ebikes, but that's probably about it. If they can package it up nicely, it could be attractive because it's cleaner than a chain.
  • 1 0
 Didn't the last press release mention that it would mainly only offer an advantage to triathletes?
  • 2 0
 Nothing new hear!!!! Still has a cassette and chain!! Just the cassette has teeth perpendicular to the chain line and still has a chain but it’s in the form of ~18 cam rollers.
  • 5 2
 It's just an idea, it doesn't solve anything....but your wallet is lighter and your must feel you ride faster now! Crowd funding is scam to separate you and your money....what do you get in return, a sticker, t-shirt, cool story bro? Do you actually get a product, how bout a return in your investment?
  • 6 0
 They really need to collaborate with Pole on this...sounds like a match made in heaven.
  • 4 0
 My take is, Why? Why do we need this? I fail to see the problem this idea is going to solve?

I do not like change for the sake of change, but show me how the change is an improvement and i am all down with change.
  • 4 0
 Lol who would give them money? Why do you think they dont want to fund this within Ceramic Speed? Hint: they want to lose your money, not theirs and this way when it crashes and burns only Driven is impacted.
  • 3 0
 There is 365 days in a year and 24 hours in a day, it's been a few years since this was first shown and there has been no progress. It's gears and shafts for god sake, clearly if it's taken 10s of thousands of hours of thought from numerous engineers to design something as basic as a bicycle drivetrain and still haven't succeeded then the design is massively flawed.... Car companies design entire cars in this time from scratch, Space X makes numerous iterations of rockets, and some how after millions in investment and 10s of thousands of hours of twiddling your thumbs you still haven't came up with a working solution. This isn't rocket science, or the search for the Higgs Boson, it's friggin mechanical gears, nuts and bolts... If a group of 'engineers' can't figure out a solution in that length of time then either the idea is a massive failure they refuse to let go of, or these engineers couldn't put a Meccano set together.
  • 7 0
 Link to the mud video?
  • 3 0
 Drive pinion needs to completely disengage from one gear before engaging with the next on the cassette, this free spinning with zero toque is going to be a showstopper for this concept.
  • 1 0
 You could use a second "pair of bearings and use something like a double clutch. So 2 bearing pairs are always engaging with the cassette but only one transfers load
  • 5 0
 I read crowd funding and the only thing that comes to mind are thore poor souls still waiting for their iq2 pedasl
  • 4 0
 This design will work with magic cog teeth and magic micro bearings that can hold your body weight. Other than the totally fatal design flaws it's a great idea.
  • 2 0
 "It’s Driven’s job to solve today’s challenges, for tomorrow’s revision, and the next revision, which I’m confident we will.”

Theranos' blood testing tech was vaporware, they raised hundreds of millions of dollars, and this guy sounds disturbingly similar to con queen ceo Elizabeth Holmes.
  • 9 3
 i hate it
  • 4 0
 It looks like a great idea but knowing ceramic speed, it’s gonna be as expensive as a rohloff speed hub......
  • 1 0
 I think they are the most expensive in a movement
  • 5 0
 Leonardo da Vinci would have a good time these days.
  • 2 0
 He is going crazy up in heaven, seeing all this salesman and copying crap nowadays. Real crazy engineering is dying
  • 5 0
 just goes to prove a sucker is born every hour
  • 4 0
 I don't think they realise that you're supposed to get sceptics on board, not push them further away ????
  • 2 0
 My knuckles are bleeding just thinking of removing that lock ring! If they paired the carbon drive shaft with a gear box and an enclosed a single cog final drive you guys would be all over it!
  • 4 0
 why do then need money for a prototype?
its been made and is totally functional, ive used it at core bike about 4 years ago.
  • 4 0
 You RODE one of these bikes equipped with that?
How did it feel I'm really curious? Fast shifting, quick seamless, quiet? How did the gear shift lever feel too? I like the idea of the alignment and no cross-chaining, like perfect indexing. Don't know if it's ready for MTB use YET, but it could be.
~JSV
  • 1 0
 I remember going in this old farm building and saw something similar to this on an old bike.
Not knocking the idea, it's just a different solution to a current problem that already has a solution.

Bit like the 29er when 26 was fine for so long. Now it's been around for so long people just accept it. Smile
  • 1 0
 The 29'er is actually useful though...
  • 4 0
 I have now learned that I'm a hater. Let me guess...... I can make the nice list if I buy ridiculous $400 pulley wheels.
  • 1 0
 I have no idea how they will get it to work, but I think they will end up with something. If they don't, I think most of the people who supported it will have a tough time giving them another $1700USD for a 3d printed cage that saves 1.6 watts.
  • 3 0
 Oh cool the new ankle shift system! I’ve been meaning to lessen the clutter in my handlebars, this should do the trick!
  • 5 1
 Quoting Dire Straits, "Money for Nothing"
  • 2 0
 Freakin roadies will buy anything for a 1% improvement in efficiency. Apparently they'll even buy an idea for a million dollars.
  • 3 0
 I guess by 'haters' he means people who laugh at their pointlss ceramic bearings...
  • 1 0
 It's a good concept but I'd be amazed if they can make this for a reasonable price whilst being reliable too. I don't hate it but I'm excited to see it fail and will hold up my hands if they get it working for sure haha
  • 4 0
 CeramicSpeed is the hifi audio cables of the biking world.
  • 1 0
 Reminds me of those old 1950's egg beaters. They were relevant back then. This just looks like a very expensive way to explode teeny weeks ball bearings. Give me a hammer, i'll do it cheaper, but probly not as efficiently.
  • 5 1
 I love this idea.
  • 2 0
 I would put something like this on my road bike. Static angles and everything tucked in so that it is a little more aero.
  • 5 5
 Whats your beef? Everyone knows what they are getting themselfes into. Dont invest when you dont believe in it. I dont believe in it either, but I also dont write armchair engineer comments about it online. lol
  • 14 1
 yet here we are....
  • 3 0
 Actually, you kinda do. We all do. That’s the fun of it!
  • 1 3
 Fortunately I can make actual engineer comments about this drive train. The mtb industry frequently acts unprofessional, but so are their customers. Riders arguing over bike parts often resembles 5 year olds arguing over quantum gravity quite closely. Some constructive critizism would be of actual use, but talking shit is much more fun, am i right?
  • 3 0
 @endoplasmicreticulum: What are you talking about? There has been plenty of legitimate, well educated criticism of this scam on PB. Both on the engineering side pointing out why exactly it will not work and on the financial side pointing out exactly why it's a ponzi scheme and how there is zero intention of ever releasing this "product" from CeramicSpeed, sorry, "Driven".

It's ironic that you have jumped on this high horse of "at least I'm an engineer" but you have made exactly zero meaningful contribution to the topic so far.

Re: "Everyone knows what they are getting themselves into" that would be great but it's utopia. If that were the case, schemes like that would not exist, yet they do. And just because scam victims generally part with their money out of their own free will and due to their own lack of understanding that they are being scammed, does not mean we should be blaming them and patting the scammers on the back. A thief is a thief even if some clumsy dude forgot to lock his house that day.
  • 2 0
 @endoplasmicreticulum: Spotted the self proclaimed keyboard engineer
  • 1 1
 I have to clear a few things up.
1. Maybe I focused on the trash talking too much. There is indeed valid criticism posted here (which I btw never denied).
2. I dont concider this a scam, because in principle this drive train can work, just not exactly as they showed it so far.
3. Innocent till proven guilty. CC could just run away with the money, but so could any company looksing for investors. 1.000.000$ is a lot of money, but not worth getting sued to death and loosing significant portions of your sales, since riders hate you now. Its a risky investment, but imo Investors should be knowledgeble in the fields they invest in, so I see it as a calculated risk for the investor.
  • 4 1
 So I take it non of the commenters are investors?
  • 2 0
 Cool for them they got investors. More power to them. My question, is it lighter than standard drivetrain?
  • 7 3
 everyone chill out
  • 2 0
 Unnecessary. Give me a belt driven internal gearbox any day. Where are they at?
  • 3 0
 love a good ponzi scheme/scam. so sad i missed this!
  • 3 0
 Anyone looking for a bridge in Brooklyn? I have one of them to sell you.
  • 2 0
 Problem is it does not work, why not just turn a derailleur into a gear box?
  • 2 0
 I'm going to solve tyre wear and rubber consumption by making cars float...
  • 4 2
 I can test it out on my hardtail over the next Swedish winter for free ;p
  • 4 1
 I would love to hate it
  • 2 0
 Typo in Ceramic Speed at the start of the last paragraph!
  • 9 0
 Surely a typo in the headline too. This got a million dollars in funding?!
  • 2 0
 Theranos raised $1.4billion with the same hopium.
  • 3 5
 imo i think this has some potential and I'm excited to see how it evolves. while there are some potential flaws with these first versions, I don't get why everyone is getting so triggered about it because ceramicspeed is expensive and they're trying to make the mtb industry progress. they didn't hold you at gunpoint for you to give them ur money, if you don't like it, then keep ur money, but stop ranting about people trying to innovate
  • 4 1
 What are they innovating exactly?
  • 1 1
 I want to see the spiny drive-train thing hit a rock vs a derailleur hit a rock to see how many pieces that breaks into compared to a derailleur just bending
  • 1 1
 I'm pretty sure if they make it work the entire peloton will be running these and when I say pretty sure I mean fucking sure as shit.
  • 2 0
 Will that fit on an XD freehub?
  • 2 0
 I'd run a single speed version on a DJ....
  • 2 0
 Well , judging by that comment, CeramicSpeed appear to be morons
  • 1 0
 The only question is if it will be allowed to use for triathlon? Because I can't imagine anyone else who would buy it.
  • 2 0
 that cassette is a tool of torture in case of a fall O_O
  • 4 2
 looooooool really
  • 1 0
 i've wanted this forever, but single speed is just fine!!
  • 1 0
 He should ask Alex Pong how his hat tasted!
  • 1 0
 Is this the answer to no 12 speed parts in stock?
  • 1 0
 Wow. I want a million dollars. I need a million dollars for shoe laces.
  • 2 0
 "Used to be Graters"
  • 2 2
 That looks awesome, would totally buy that.....if I can afford it.
  • 1 1
 Looks cool but how much weight would you save?
  • 1 0
 Sizzle not steak.

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