First Look: Instinctiv's M Series Gearbox Trail Bikes

Dec 23, 2020 at 9:10
by James Smurthwaite  

The Netherlands is not exactly what you'd call a mountain biking mecca. While it has the whole 'biking' thing down better than probably any other country on the planet, the fact that a lot of the country is actually below sea level means it's somewhat lacking in the 'mountain' department. Despite this, it definitely punches above its weight in the MTB world with Mathieu Van Der Poel one of the favourites for Olympic gold next year and a lineage of great riders including Bas de Bever, Bart Brentjens and Anneke Beerten.

Hoping to be another mtb name to remember from the Netherlands comes Instinctiv Bikes.
Instinctiv M Series Details

• Wheelsize: 27.5" or 29" or Mullet
• Carbon frame
• Travel: 140mm (r) / 150mm (f)
• 64.5° head angle
• 445mm chainstays
• Weight: 33.5 lb / 15.2 kg (size L, C1.9XR drive train, carbon wheelset, without pedals)
• Price range: From €7,499
• Available for pre-order now
instinctiv.bike


The brand's first platform is the M Series that is available with 29", 27.5" or mixed wheels. The bikes all use the same front triangle, but the seatstay and chainstay are different for the bigger rear wheel on the M9 29er. The frames have been two and a half years in the making and are the brainchild of CEO Andreas Knol. The bikes started as a side project of Alskar Design, a design and engineering company that Andreas also founded, but has now grown into its own company.

Andreas said: "About 2.5 years ago I got the desire to create our own product, to showcase what we are capable of doing as a team. To develop our own high-end bike, bringing every detail to a high degree of perfection. That was the start of Instinctiv. It started as a project but evolved into a company that designs, develops and assembles bikes."

Frame Details

Cable routing is neatly integrated, as you'd expect from a design and engineering company.

Instinctiv's frames are full carbon and it claims the weave it uses comes from a "premium automotive brand". The frames also use 7% recycled carbon fiber, which Instincitv knows isn't going to change the world but it said, "we don’t want to wait until everything is right. We wanted to make a small start now and believe that it is possible to push limits further in the future." The frames are made in Taiwan but painted and assembled in the Netherlands.

The large front triangle is probably the most noticeable aspect of this bike. Combined with the low slung shock, this gives room for two water bottles. Only shortly after noticing the front triangle, you'll probably see that this is a gearbox driven bike too. The bike uses Pinion drivetrains but Instinctiv has made some modifications including a chain tensioner that Instinctiv claim reacts faster than the standard one. Instinctiv's jockey wheel uses a different spring system, larger jockey wheels, high quality bearings, and a closed construction to bring about some improvements on the original design.

Instinctiv also attempted to fix a big problem on the Pinion and have replaced its GripShift with a proprietary shifter. The shifting module is from Cinq / Tout Terrain, a German manufacturer, in combination with Instinctiv's own ergonomic trigger that it claims gives a shifting feeling similar to a derailleur set up we are all used to.

Instinciv's modifications are designed to improve the performance of the Pinion gearbox.

Instinctiv believes that the weight distribution of the gearbox gives a more confidence-inspiring ride and this is worth the 600-900 gram weight penalty.

Geometry


Instinctiv describes the bike as suitable for enduro and trail riders and believes it "could perform well in the EWS'. The M9 and the M7 share very similar geometry numbers but the M97 is a bit slacker thanks to the mismatched wheels. The head angle on the M9 and M7 sits at 64.5° but half a degree slacker on the M97. The same is true on the seat angle where 76° slackens out to 75.5° on the mixed version. The bikes have a healthy reach across sizes with 486mm in size large, again this is a bit different on the mixed wheel version by around 5mm per size.

The other big discrepancies between the bikes come from the chainstays where the M7 and M97 have compact 430mm stays but these stretch out a bit on the M9 version to accommodate the bigger wheels.

Suspension


Instinctiv designed its suspension to be as central, low and compact as possible to complement the weight distribution offered by the gearbox. Instincitv claims that this layout gives the bike, "stability at high speed, a lot of grip and a predictable character in all conditions"

It's essentially a Horst Link but with a system of rockers and links that drives the shock in a very progressive and compact way. This 'Puma' platform is patented and allows Instinctiv to "optimise the leverage ratio independent of other kinematic factors."

For suspension graphs, click here.


6 different colorways are available for the Instinctiv.
These contour graphics behind the headtube are super neat.


Instinctiv has sold its first 50 frames and is currently taking pre-orders for another batch. The brand is currently prioritizing slow and steady growth so it can logistics, quality and manufacturing at a high level. It is currently exploring some other models and we will update you when we hear more. For more information on Instincitv bikes, click here.


277 Comments

  • 290 1
 :Slaps Seat: "You can fit so many water bottles and in this bad boy."
  • 91 2
 Alternate: "Yo dawg I heard you like water bottles"
  • 76 0
 I can 3d print a whole water tank inside
  • 21 0
 And a jug of tire sealant.
  • 18 0
 Room for everything AND the kitchen sink!
  • 25 0
 No accidental doping issues when this is your rig!
  • 61 2
 @mixmastamikal - I approve
  • 12 23
flag MaineTallboy (Dec 23, 2020 at 13:43) (Below Threshold)
 comment of the year!
  • 10 0
 For dudes who were begging to fit a milk jug on the down tube
  • 4 0
 @dark-o: I'm sure that'll be on thingify in a few day
  • 13 0
 @MaineTallboy: well this must be your first pink bike comment section then
  • 7 4
 @MaineTallboy: definitely not comment of the year. Been some really good ones. I did make the top ten last year though.
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: Grim V2?
  • 1 0
 You can fit a tv in there, holy jeez.
  • 11 0
 Semenuk’s next edit will see him pulling a Superman seat grab through the frame of this thing!
  • 7 2
 How about a tiny little frame bag that will fit exactly in that hole at the head tube!??
  • 5 1
 Looks like nutcracker to me!
  • 12 0
 You can fit another human in there pedaling the opposite direction for added boost.
  • 1 0
 This has bikepacking frame
  • 1 0
 @blackthorne: Mega-boost(tm)
  • 1 0
 At first I was like "WHAT no water bottle mounts?"
  • 1 0
 @chrsei: It's built for the Sopranos.
  • 2 0
 Maybe fill one with ice to ice your crotch after that terrible stand over destroys the goods. Sure it's low under the seat, but you don't stand under the seat, you stand a bit in front, closer to middle of the top tube.
  • 1 0
 Terrible logo is very easy to cover at least.
  • 229 4
 Goodbye demolished derailleurs, hello demolished proprietary tensioner!
  • 50 2
 Yea, seems like a worse spot for that to be...?
  • 12 18
flag gnarlysipes (Dec 23, 2020 at 12:44) (Below Threshold)
 I was thinking the same thing. I think having the chain tensioner that close to the tire makes me more nervous than the traditional drivetrain setup. Why do they need a chain tensioner anyway? Isn’t that one of the pillars of gearbox drivetrains—not needing to account for chain slack?
  • 5 5
 Chain slap will be silent compared to the tensioner snapping. It's all relative.
  • 32 9
 @gnarlysipes: any fs bike will have chain growth
  • 18 1
 @gnarlysipes: There is chain growth as the suspension compresses so they need something to buffer that. Not sure how likely you'd be to damage that tensioner. The Roox Cat and Dog device was comparable and was for DH use. But either way, it seems to me this would be able to move out of the way. You'd be more likely to damage the chainring itself which (like many bikes nowadays it seems) is still unprotected. Personally I always thought having the tensioner as shown here is actually better than having it at the rear axle. Not so much because of vulnerability but more because the rear wheel is supposed to move more whereas the bb area is more steady. So even without a clutch, it will probably remain quite steady and only move when it should.
  • 12 24
flag Trevorjones109 (Dec 23, 2020 at 12:54) (Below Threshold)
 @gnarlysipes: They need tensioners since there is chain growth on any suspension design except a high pivot (the whole point of a high pivot is eliminating chain growth).

My zerode has the stock pinion chain tensioner so I don't drop the chain midway through travel. I never notice it's there when on the bike, which is nice.
  • 17 0
 I want pics with a bashguard big enough to protect that thing.
  • 29 0
 @Trevorjones109: defs try to go single speed on a high pivot with idler (sans tensioner) and report back.
  • 12 0
 @stiingya: gonna need a bashguard for your bashguard
  • 2 3
 @dirtyburger: underrated comment of the year.
  • 5 0
 @bulletbassman: No love for the URT crowd. You've rustled a vintage mtb hornets nest with that comment.
  • 6 0
 @bulletbassman: Not actually true - there are a number bikes where it rotates around the BB and has no chain growth. Canyon Stitched 720 Pro, for example.

There is also the Rohloff Gates Full Suspension SVC Strato Bike 2 - belt drive and no tensioner.
  • 10 2
 @bulletbassman: not necessarily. But any bike with anything above 0 of antisquat will have chain growth. When the single pivot is in the same point as the bottom bracket, there is no chain growth.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/17334736
www.pinkbike.com/photo/17334728
www.pinkbike.com/photo/12057661
www.pinkbike.com/photo/12057657
  • 1 1
 @Trevorjones109: The hole point of an idler pulley is to reduce chain growth. The pivot point being exact the same as the bottom bracket eliminates the chain growth.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/12057657
  • 2 1
 @iamalexm: yes.
If you can pivot the rear suspension off the gearbox drive shaft in a single pivot design there will be no change in chain length and a tensioner will not be necessary. Using a multi link design or a single file pivot with a main pivot not exactly on the drive shaft will result in changes in chain tension.
I think there was a French bike with the Effigear gearbox on PB last year that had a high pivot on the gearbox output shaft. It had a name in some way related to Star Wars I seem to recall.
The reason high pivot bikes have the idler is not because there is no chain growth. Quite the opposite. There is so much chain growth that without the idler the chain would grow too much and probably snap at the bottom, or be too slack at the top, or both.
  • 4 0
 @Notmeatall: Seems like chain growth means different things to different people. Having the top of the chain go through the "instant center" (which is the main pivot for many designs like the Cotic linkage or a single pivot design) theoretically decouples the drivetrain from the suspension as this top part doesn't grow or shrink as the suspension goes through the motion. Theoretically... Others include the top and bottom part of the chain which won't grow in case of a bb centered single pivot like a DMR Bolt Long or many slopestyle bikes (like the regular DMR Bolt, dzoh...). But this won't decouple drivetrain effects from the suspension. So most trail bikes are designed around leaving that top part constant. You get that with a high pivot and and idler too, just as much as you'd get it with a lower pivot without an idler. The only point of having a high pivot like a Balfa, K9 or a Trek Session 10 or the latest and greatest stuff is that the more rearward axle path is considered good for preserving momentum as the suspension compresses. But people are throwing these different concepts (1. high pivot and idler for a rearwards axle path, 2. no chain growth of the upper part to decouple drivetrain and suspension, 3. bb centered pivot so that you can run single speed or internal gearing easily) in one single discussion. I think we all should think real hard whether we want to continue this discussion in the first place. It might take longer than any US political Pinkbike discussion...
  • 2 0
 @vinay: "Personally I always thought having the tensioner as shown here is actually better than having it at the rear axle."
I thought so too but talking about it on a messageboard I had the opposite opinion, and this may make sense because as you say the rear moves much more, so if the BB mounted tensionner is not powerfull enough, you may still have enough slack in the chain which may then get off the rear cog.
Inversely, as the BB doesn't move much, you don't need the tensioner in the area, and you'd better place it in the rear.
To sum up : If the tensioner fails to properly tension the chain, it will act as a chain guide and will then be more helpfull at the rear which moves a lot than around the BB which moves much less.
At least that's what I understood.
  • 2 0
 What's weird is that they still have like 4 or 5 cm above the first pulley, so maybe they could have rotated the whole tensioner by as much, which would have made it protected by the chainring. But maybe it's not that simple and there wouldn't be enough chain spare or something.
  • 4 0
 @stiingya: It's not as likely to get hit as a rear derailleur is because it pivots up and away as the suspension engages and the chain growth kicks in. On a regular bike the rear derailleur stays much lower than this all the time, which is why they get demolished.
  • 3 1
 @stiingya: actually not really. There is another company making very similar bikes, with very similar tensioners, called zerode, and somewhere out there, there is a video that perfectly why. When you hit a rock or root or something with with the tensioner, because it is spring loaded, it just moves out of the way. Then when the rock is out of the way, the tensioner springs back.
  • 3 5
 I wonder why they don’t put tensioner son top? Or am I just stupid?
  • 1 0
 @Lhillgamer:

The wheel with the tensioner in that position becomes a bash guard of sorts. I doubt you would hit it much there anyways.
  • 5 0
 @ridingrascal: cause that bit is already under tension due to you pedalling. It’s what makes the bike go forward ;-)
  • 6 3
 @ridingrascal: There's no stupid questions, just stupid people.
  • 2 1
 Yeah if you are going to have a high end botique mtb, there are zero reasons to go with a chain compared to belt drive, which all the pinion gearboxes support, and the tensioning system for the belt drive is much simpler.
  • 1 0
 I am sure they put it at the rear axle first but couldn’t leave it there since that would look like a derailleur.
  • 1 0
 @Lhillgamer: Zerode's tensioner is WAY more tucked in and shorter than this so in most cases it only has to move so much before it's behind the tire and then the tire is taking the impact and protecting the tensioner from there.
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: It would be interesting to see if it tucks in more under sag, and you have a point that it would tuck in further under compression. But it looks like the larger pulley is still going to be in front of the tire a lot. (obviously arm chair) Just seems like low speed log crossings, and sandstone/volcanic ledges would take a toll on this design?

There are some pretty compact single speed tensioners out there that are high up, tucked in and like a normal rear derailleur they are way behind the rear wheel.

www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?s=0f60934936fa8692b79097613a206d7b&attachmentid=169199&d=1441044986

To play devils advocate I'd hope they spent enough time testing their design that it's not an issue... Might just look off and be a non issue? (hope that's true of the humpback tall top tube too!) Smile
  • 2 2
 When I talk about chain growth, I mean the length of chain required to wrap around the drivetrain increasing as the suspension compresses - that's why a tensioner is needed in my understanding. It's because the chain length is not constant and the slack created has to be taken up as the suspension extends. Regarding the chain dropping off the rear sprocket. If the run is straight and the tension is anywhere near where it should be I don't think that's an issue. Look at BMX bikes. No narrow wide, no chain guides, the chains don't fall off. I think it has more to do with the sprockets being in alignment than anything else. I could be wrong though.
  • 2 0
 I wonder if they could get away with a single-pulley tensioner, like the one found on a car timing belt. Simpler and cleaner looking
  • 2 0
 @phops: I believe the popular opinion is that the friction is greater with a belt than a chain, but I’m not in a position to argue that point.
  • 2 0
 @SonofBovril: also belts and mud don't mix. Mud can't escape through a belt like it can a chain.
  • 1 0
 @Trevorjones109: HP bikes still have growth, it's just reduced. the only bike that in theory wouldn't have growth would be a single pivot with the pivot being concentric with the BB. This has of course been done, and it sucks a bad of dicks as a suspension design. lol. furthermore you still would need to have adjustable dropouts(or an eccentric BB, but that would screw up the relationship from bb to pivot so....) to get the chain properly tensioned.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I've always thought a better route would be to create a spring loaded jockey wheel mounted on the seat tube like on a hpp that rises and falls taking up chain growth. Love the bike other than that though, and finally someone came up with a one side proprietary trigger shifter whoop whoop! Beer
  • 2 0
 @stiingya: how is it a worse spot? Are you Guys casing that much?
  • 1 0
 @bulletbassman: this is typically why previous FS designs have added a pulley at the high pivot so the entire drivetrain rotates with the suspension. I think I'd take proprietary idler pulley over a proprietary chain tensioner right in the kill zone
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I can think of 2 steep rolls I hit this season that would have torn this tensioner off. The difference is so many things can damage your rear der. hanging out there I never even think aout it. Not sure which is better...
  • 2 0
 @gnarlysipes: chain stretch through suspension travel
  • 4 0
 @conoat: Appreciate the correction, not sure where I got confused that the high pivots were zero chain growth.
  • 1 0
 No more pedal strikes.
  • 1 0
 I reckon you could use something like that, but smaller, to allow a shorter rear mech on a regular bike, so you could get eagle range with a short cage zee sized mech? So the 2 mechs would work together to take up the slack, would both have clutches.
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: It's in a worse spot because it's in front of the rear wheel and any obstacle that would hit your chain ring would hit this tensioner first.

Just seems like there could have been a better solution...
  • 1 0
 @stiingya: I would agree if it would be below the crankset bolt. I never got my bashgurad f*cked near that spot. Never have I smacked the lower idler pulley on big bashgurad/chainguide.
I have smacked 7 rear derailleur instead for the last 3 years.
  • 2 0
 @Serpentras: it is below the crankset bolt(s)? It is below the lower pulley on a chainguide? (both of which are built way stronger than a jockey wheel)

This is out in front of the rear wheel and below the chainring, a normal derailleur is way in the back of the bike with only side/glancing blows to worry about.

I don't get the argument here. Go look at how Zerode did it and tell me that isn't a better set up?
  • 2 0
 @SonofBovril: It definitely is, but you already have more friction with the gearbox, and the gearbox itself is heavier than the conventional setup.

For a trail bike, I think its kinda not really worth it, but for enduro/dh (like with Nicolai) gearbox with belt drive is almost the suprerior alternative. For the ups, you really just need the bike to have decent range and non crap kinematics without focus on efficiency. For the downs, the lack of weight on the rear wheel, no chain loss, much better environment resistance, and instananeous shifting without pedaling are all advantages that are worth the loss of efficency.
  • 2 0
 Needs a bashguard. On the top tube for the nuts
  • 1 0
 @jaame: also you reduce pedal kickback because forces /torque "align" at the pivot/idler
  • 1 0
 @landscapeben: but you'd create a new pivot for the chain, change up the pulling forces of the chain and therefore add unwanted influence to the rear suspension.
  • 1 0
 @danimaniac: I'd live with it...
  • 1 0
 @Notmeatall: how many modern Geo bikes are there which use a BB centred single pivot? I can't think of a one... Genuinely interested though.
  • 1 0
 @landscapeben: BB centred single pivot is to eliminate copletely chain growth and pedal kickback. There will be no anti-squat either, so there is no real use to a moutain bike and that's why there is no modern geo with this setup. Even modern slopestyle bikes with suspension (trek comes to mind) have a pivot located where it generates a lot of desirable forces like anti-squat, with little pedal kickback. The downside is that they can't run the chain without a tensioner or the chain itself wouldn't allow the suspension to move, or the chain would break.
  • 25 0
 they should be paying you.
  • 9 0
 Gorgeous!
  • 23 0
 That looks so much better.
  • 5 0
 Just buy a zerode
  • 4 0
 go even lower - seal that hole near HT, and cut seat tube by 50ml
  • 2 0
 So much nicer
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: honestly, when you blur the eyes slightly and not focus too hard, the Photoshop look's legitimate and the frame line looks great, I wished they'd have the top tube sleek and straight from square one!
  • 17 1
 this is what we have Germans for, this exact scenario
  • 1 0
 sooo much better
  • 2 0
 Exactly - 1st thing I thought of...
  • 1 0
 @rafallied: I think the current one only allows for droppers up to 150mm travel. Or at least you can't slam them if they're longer. Cutting them by another 50mm would allow you to drop the saddle lower (if you get a shorter dropper) but you can no longer get the saddle as high as some people like it to be.
  • 1 0
 Nice! Was meaning to do that... Smile Good job!
  • 1 0
 @vinay: there allready 200ml + droppers on market
That’s massive room of adjustment
  • 118 6
 Is there any advantage to the whole humpback top tube thing that companies keep putting on their bikes? I ask because it looks bloody awful. Seriously, somebody nedds a good smack in the mouth for inventing this crap.
  • 11 1
 Even though they are posting OK standover the way the tube it angles up like crazy in practice your jewels are still in jeopardy more than they need to be...

Guess it will make for awesome frame bag space...?
  • 11 0
 If you do FEA on the front, that shape with the support tube in the middle is mighty strong.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: no doubt it's strong, but surely there is a way to engineer that TT so it's not so high up? (I'm sure new Mondrakers didn't suddenly get weak frames compared to old Mondrakers?)

If you rode this bike with that seat height because you needed this much reach it would just be a matter of time till CRUSHED... Smile

www.pinkbike.com/photo/19901719
  • 2 1
 @stiingya: what dude. Those stand over numbers are quite good. I wouldn’t even have the seat post slammed the way down cause my ass would be in the tire.
  • 2 0
 @bulletbassman: I'd think a Bassman like yourself would be more concerned with a high top tube getting in the way of your bass...? Smile

I said the stand over numbers were OK. But you have to consider how quickly that stand over is infringed due to the angle of the top tube so in real life, say an OTB situation where your violently flung forward you have less clearance than ideal IMO.

There are only three sizes, some people will likely size up to the medium and have a huge bassed TT between their legs...
  • 1 0
 that humpback helps making the frame stiffer and reliable, as they need to realocate the underside for the fork/wheel combo.
  • 6 0
 I mean, the best way to make it stiff is to use 2" steel tubing. Stiffness isn't the end goal, a good ride quality is at a reasonable weight. Just because its an FEA optimized shape doesn't mean is the best shape. Besides 2011 Kona Operators, how frequent is it for head tubes to snap off?
  • 2 0
 @stiingya: If I’m getting flung otb my sack will hit the stem not the top tube. Not that it matters at that point anyways. It’s not an xc bike with a rigid seat post. When are you ever going to be riding with your hips in front of the seat.
  • 3 2
 @hamncheez: fea literally does optimize the shape.....
  • 2 0
 @bulletbassman: OK, I guess your right and the other 99% of the bike industry with low top tube is wrong....
  • 2 1
 @rclugnut: FEA is analysis. It is just that we now have systems that do the analysis and have an algorithm to optimize the design within the given constraints. If they allowed to have material there, this is what you end up with. What you allow for is different for everyone. I personally like a lot of room over the top tube but clearly not everyone wants that. But I want it for my knees to move even when the bike is tilted. I don't think any modern bike allows you to slam your crotch into the top tube. The stem maybe, but not the toptube.
  • 2 0
 @dark-o: makes installing a Mac Ride impossible too
  • 3 0
 To be fair, it's my understanding that the average height of a person in the Netherlands is approximately 3 meters, so there is no standover clearance issue.
  • 2 0
 @muumuu: I'm about 6ft tall. In a group of Dutch men, I'm often one of the shortest if not the shortest. 3m might indeed be the average.
  • 1 0
 I doesn't just look awful, I wouldn't buy a bike like that anymore.

I haven't bought a bike in years now that didn't keep most of its tubes and suspension under an almost straight line from the top of the headtube to the rear axle. I still own a few bikes that use a bunch of real-estate above that line. However, I notice it getting in the way. Especially on slow technical stuff, up or down. And skinnies... i doubt these bike designers ever failed a skinny ended up landing on the top tube.

I think Kona really started pushing that "keep it low" thing with the Process 111 a few years back, but there were probably others...

...or maybe european super-cyclists just don't fail skinnies or slow technical stuff ... that could be it... youtu.be/GDwVXxYbLeM

...or maybe I just crash too much?...
  • 2 0
 @muumuu: So this bike design is secretly all about the Netherlands kicking everyone in the junk...
  • 98 2
 Hunchback top tubes need to die off yesterday.
  • 11 1
 No shit. Worst mountain bike “design” feature since seatstay mounted u brakes!!
  • 4 2
 first metal aluminimun nomad was divine...
  • 5 0
 Hunchbacks need to die off? Notred.
  • 44 1
 Looks like an Orangedraker
  • 2 0
 I was going to go with "Mondraker that's been in a head-on collision"
  • 36 6
 I'm sure the aesthetics of this bike will get a lot of hate, but I think it's uniquely stunning. The paint finish was definitely the right choice too.
  • 5 2
 i'm absolutely with you on this. it's definitely an acquired taste but yeah, i think it looks highly aesthetic.
  • 6 2
 @tobiusmaximum: I think it looks sweet
  • 9 2
 It’s stunning to be gasping for air after you’ve cracked your plums on an upward bowed top tube.
  • 3 1
 I agree. Nice to be surprised in a good way by a ‘different’ frame design
  • 1 3
 That's the coolest front end of a bike I've ever seen. I could see that becoming the design of the future, but hopefully without so much humpback.
  • 34 5
 Everything about it looks awesome... except for the looks
  • 9 2
 And the ball crushing top tube.
  • 8 1
 didn't you hear, it's highly aesthetic... Smile
  • 24 1
 Hopefully this will help motivate Pinion to put some work into creating a solid trigger design and update/fix the tensioner. I think this is an exciting use of the Pinion gear box!
  • 6 0
 Probably one of the biggest innovations here. Pinion with a trigger shifter.... but everyone is looking at the fugly frame ????
  • 6 0
 @professed: PINION TRIGGER SHIFTER since noone seems to be talking about it I figure a little caps should help. I'm seriously interested in it, and even though I don't want these frames I really hope they succeed so that the pinion trigger shifter spreads
  • 24 0
 it almost looks like the stanchion of the shock rubs on the linkage..
  • 2 0
 @twonsarelli Yeah, that first photo had me thinking that, or debris gets between the tow and causes damage.
  • 20 0
 Looks like a Niner-Mondraker collab with a hint of zerode
  • 3 1
 Thats had a head on collision with a neutron star.
  • 2 0
 and some deviate guide sauce mixed in as well
  • 2 1
 And some influence by the front triangle size of Giant Stance. My crotch hurts looking at this beast
  • 13 0
 It seems like one piece of debris in between the shock and rockerlink would spell disaster for the shaft coating. It almost looks like they touch in a couple of the photos.
  • 12 0
 His name is Goldmember. He lost his manhood to a hunchbacked top tube accident. And he’s from Holland.....isn’t that weird?!
  • 8 0
 Sorry, I know this is subjective, im not sure which looks worse or that dreadful ebike that looked like a harp that came out the other day.

I mean bikes coming out like the transition spur / scout and yt izzo look so sharp - straight lines is where it’s at in 2020. This has got more curves than a milf porn site.
  • 6 0
 Will require some investigation to confirm
  • 6 0
 Seems like a more vulnerable spot for the chain tensioner than on a conventional derailleur, it looks like it would be taken out by obstacles that the bottom bracket would clear and the rear tire wheel would roll over.
  • 2 0
 Yes, until you realize that the tensioner is spring loaded and would just spring back once hit. It does mean the chain isn’t under tension for a split second, but that’s not too big of a deal.
  • 7 0
 Well, here's the gearbox full suspension bike you nerds keep talking about wanting. Happy now?
  • 4 0
 Not until Specialized makes one.
  • 4 0
 "Instinctiv believes that the weight distribution of the gearbox gives a more confidence-inspiring ride and this is worth the 600-900 gram weight penalty."

I can confirm, this was one of the biggest perks of riding a Pinion bike, and it really surprised me how noticeable it was
  • 1 0
 Yeah but then you put 700 grams of water on the top tube and don't notice it anymore.
  • 1 0
 @DavidGuerra: who puts water on the top tube?
  • 1 0
 @Lhillgamer: The holes are there. Looks like the placement for the second bottle.
  • 1 0
 @DavidGuerra: more likely that people will put a bottle-cage mounted bag or accessory like the wolf tooth b-rad bag there.
  • 7 0
 I like and dislike the look of this bike.
  • 3 0
 Fight or flight is indeed instinctive.
  • 8 2
 The coolest part is the shifter pod for the gearbox, no more twist shifter.
  • 5 0
 Hey Cascade Components! This bike needs a new upper link that's a little longer so the shock doesn't smash into it, also why not add a little more progression Wink
  • 6 0
 Removes the worst part of a bike, the derailleur.

..Now what do we do with this thing?

Engineer - I KNOW!!!
  • 2 0
 I hated the pinion grip shifter and the stock cinq setup with a shifter for each hand is dumb. This setup looks much better. I wonder if the revised tensioner is less draggy. My main complaint with my former Pinon bike was the drivetrain losses were absolutely noticeable.
  • 2 0
 Somehow the forward mounted derailleur does not get damaged in rock gardens and such? A low mounted bottle cage gets destroyed on heavy compressions? Am I saying what’s obvious or is it somehow not an issue? Seems like I’d tear that thing right off?
  • 2 0
 Like i have said in some other comments, it is spring loaded, so if it gets hit, it just springs back.
  • 1 0
 That is pretty cool!@Lhillgamer:
  • 7 1
 "I want a Mondraker, but 'ugly' rather than 'sexy...'"
  • 5 0
 When you get a Mondraker, a Deviate , a Fezzari, and a Forbidden together and melt it together with a Propain torch.
  • 4 2
 Not ugly. Truly heinous.

Could have been quite attractive, Could have been elegant, but ended up being forced and extraneous.

Front triangle COULD have looked like a Scott Ransom, + the little top tube/downtube connector.

But then it would have been closer to a Mondraker, and then the comments would have been aflame for other reasons.

And what's with the suspension video?!

Did they actually leave the shock at full pressure, then attempt to show us something, but ended up showing us 30% shock and 70% tire squish?

A small company might get one shot at an audience like this. Not a good time to flail.

It's called slow painful death in public
  • 2 0
 if you're already asking ppl to get onboard with a very different drive train, don't ask us to get onboard with a wacky frame design. do the horst link straight line bike. it's awesome and we know it, do a sentinel, raaw, privateer, specialized knock off, and adapt the gear box in. ppl will buy it. just one change at a time, our minds get blown with two.
  • 3 0
 Is it possible to buy the shifter separately from the bike? I absolutely love my zerode and pinion set up but would love to try it with that paddle shifter to see if it improved the set up even more....
  • 5 0
 Imagine the size of the water bottle you can fit in there !
  • 6 2
 Soooooooo close, why so much negative space in the front triangle??? the bike was so close to looking gorgeous Frown
  • 4 0
 Well to all the ones that liked Pinion but didn’t want the “grip shift”... there ya go! I like it!
  • 6 1
 what is happening with that TT?
  • 5 1
 I want to get on the Pinion Wagon, but 15 degree engagement is not fun at all. soon I hope
  • 6 2
 The thing with the engagement, is that you are thinking of typical bikes where the engagement is spinning, at the rear hub. So every time you go to pedal, you notice the engagement. With a gearbox, the pawls and the ring stay where they are, so if you stop pedaling, coast, don’t move your crank position, and then start pedalling again, the pawls are right there and there is no 15 degrees of movement. Sorry if i’m bad at explaining things, i hope that makes sense
  • 1 0
 deleted
  • 2 0
 Why no pics of the non drive side?

So if a company is going to use a gearbox that necessitates a tensioner, why not step up and make it a high pivot?

I want a high pivot gearbox!
  • 2 0
 You mean like the Deviate Guide?
  • 1 1
 @stevemokan: yeah, real shame they don’t make it anymore. Now all they make is a lamer forbidden druid.
  • 1 0
 @stevemokan: yes and I saw it was discontinued, bummer, maybe they’ll do something new?
  • 3 0
 Maybe it doesn't looks good but att least is has nice storage for water bottles ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
m.pinkbike.com/photo/19907003
  • 1 0
 Don’t get the comments about the chain tensioner, it’s perfectly protected by the rear wheel, and certainly more protected than the chainring. The aesthetics convinces me not, though. The front is a spectacular sculpture, and in isolation every part of it is really nicely modeled, but the middle looks like a coat hanger. It's a cargo bike.
  • 1 0
 The chaintensioner will not be the problem, Nicolai gpi bikes have a tensioner there too, never any problems, altough the use of a gates belt is alot cleaner than this with chain. I am Dutch and I was really looking forward to this frame, but the front triangle is so ugly with the kinks...... why just why? The shifter is a nice touch, hopefully it will work with all pinion gearboxes.
  • 4 1
 You know what we need? LESS standover height. Why isn't this bike called Quasimodo? Also can we talk about the linkage/shock shaft clearance? Caauuuseeee.....lol
  • 4 0
 If you're going to do a video of the suspension at least do it with 0 pressure in the shock to see it go the whole stroke?
  • 4 0
 A nut crushing idiotic top tube would have to come out of the netherlands where 36” inseams are the norm.
  • 5 1
 Ellsworth bikes called, said you can have the ugliest bike of the year award.
  • 1 0
 The tensioner location makes a lot of sense. Reduces unsprung mass, minimizes tensioner vibration frequency and amplitude (which reduces chain slap), and it's protected from impacts by the leading face of the rear tire. All good things.
  • 1 0
 Beautiful frame. Underwhelming rear suspension design. Not so sure about the choice go with a Pinion gearbox. This would be an excellent bike for long haul rides though assuming the rear suspension yields efficient riding. It would certainly be super reliable so exploring new terrain would be more inviting.
  • 5 1
 My OCD wants to see a mini frame bag in that hole.
  • 3 1
 That's what she said
  • 10 5
 Drop dead gorgeous
  • 3 1
 Absolutely love everything about this bike. Stunning!
  • 4 3
 Gorgeous when you smash your junk on that top tube. No bike should have an upward bowed top tube. Ever.
  • 3 1
 @excavator666: stunning like the pain of your meaty clackers shooting waves of pain from hitting the obscenely up curved monstrosity of a top tube.
  • 4 2
 @peleton7: If you’re worried about smashing your nuts that far forward on the top tube it’s OTB time anyway my friend.
  • 1 0
 @peleton7: Bro! Your balls must be so big Bro!
  • 1 0
 @EricHarger: it's less about the absolute max height of the top tube and more about the sweep. Sure it's low at the seat tube, but that's not where you stand. You stand halfway up the slant where it's pretty high already.
  • 3 1
 Going up steep ledges and over big logs looks disastrous and I’m not seeing a way to run any kind of bash protection with that front tensioner. Any solutions to this?
  • 1 0
 The fact that it is spring loaded and just moves out of the way. The bigger problem is the magnesium case of the gearbox, but eveb that can be fixed with a 3d printed part from zerode.
  • 1 0
 @Lhillgamer: nice to see the bash for the gearbox. Rotating out of the way sounds good for fat log rolls but I’m still not sure about a rock hit. I like getting trialsy on my mtbs so this is something I must consider. Any further info will be appreciated, I’d like a gearbox bike someday so got to do the homework on these details.
  • 2 0
 Somewhere there's an ugly tree with a vacant crown. The whole point of 29ers was that they would look normal in large sizes. But the Netherlands.
  • 4 0
 Think whatever, but I like it a LOT!
  • 2 1
 Except the chain tensioner,.. that will not survive first lap for sure.
  • 1 1
 @Spiral23: it’s spring loaded, it’ll move out of the way
  • 4 0
 Does this design infringe in the Knolly patent?
  • 6 2
 Looks like a stray dog getting ready to mount a beach ball...
  • 6 2
 It's expensive, but at least it's ugly and heavy.
  • 2 0
 1 fugly
2 made in china
3 C series just why? to save 500€ and +-100gr
saturn st gpi with P series Pinion 14kg 6750€ and this 15,2kg 7500€
  • 1 0
 You can't change the shift mechanism on the P line so have to have gripshift.
  • 2 0
 Wow ... That's a really ugly bike... with space for big water container... maybe this bike is for forest fire department ????????
  • 1 0
 Wow! I love the innovation. This looks like a good step in the right direction for the mountain bike world. I'd love to try one, or buy one. Exactly what I am looking for in my next mountain bike.
  • 4 1
 Nice. Nice. Not thrilling, but nice.
  • 4 1
 I'm trying hard not to say anything offensive!
  • 1 0
 I am offended that you would use the word offensive!
  • 1 0
 Wow, interesting bike. Some big gaps between sizes though as you dig into those numbers. I would be very stuck between M and L.
  • 3 1
 Pick a Zerode Taniwha for a lot less cash, its belt driven, and looks great!
  • 3 0
 Company "belives this bike could perform well".
  • 2 0
 It’s awesome to see another gearbox full suspension hit the market. Well done!
  • 4 1
 A Niner and a Mondraker bred and this abomination came to life.
  • 2 0
 Love the idea of an internal gearbox, prob choose a Zerode over this though
  • 2 0
 I think you are supposed to ride inside not on top this bike. Ohh dear dear...
  • 2 0
 In the wise words of Arnie...

'You're one ugly motherfu**er'

Predator 1987
  • 1 0
 This is made by designers and engineers but looks like shit... the front triangle looks is way to big for my liking there is no flow across the frame to me.
  • 1 0
 Seriously , if they had eliminated that unnecessary extra tube / void near the head tube , and ran the tt lower , this bike could look really nice... What a shame
  • 1 0
 I like the rear triangle but why didn't they make the top tube as low as possible?? better stand over, weight lower.......the lines don't flow well with the eye.
  • 1 0
 Tagline: If you like the look of Ibis bikes but also want to feel like you are pedaling through mashed potatoes, this is the bike for you!"
  • 1 0
 I feel almost ashamed to be from Holland. Not our finest moment... I like the innovative ideas they show, but come on, it's not that hard to make a nice looking bike Frown
  • 1 0
 Interesting but one thing attracts attention immediately: way to long seat tube with to short dropper post - especially on a medium.

125 ... come on
  • 1 0
 Levys gonna love this one. look at all the room for water bottles. its actually kind of hilarious.
  • 1 2
 why hilarious?
  • 3 0
 @vhdh666: the front triangle is gigantic. it looks kind of funny
  • 5 6
 Speaking of gearbox, I'm surprised not to have seen any mention on pinkbike about that : www.valeo.com/en/valeo-is-revolutionizing-e-bike-drivetrains
It combines an electric motor with an automatic gearbox.
  • 2 0
 You be forgot the Van Steenbergens from the Netherlands
  • 1 0
 their parents are from the Netherlands.
  • 1 0
 @Steve101j: they moved in next to me in Kelowna (Sarsons road) from the Netherlands directly I thought. One born in the US while Edsard was in grad school but I thought they grew up there.
  • 1 0
 No x2 or coil with that linkage. Amazing how compact it is though. Very impressive.
  • 3 0
 That is a clean machine.
  • 1 0
 The rear triangle and suspension design looks good but the front half looks like a gate.
  • 2 0
 Ugly AF with a unacceptably long seat tube. Maybe next version?
  • 1 0
 Please ensure that the top tube is in the frame when you huck this bad boy to flat. Wanna see the seat meet the handlebar...
  • 1 0
 Whats the oeverage ratio like 1.2;1? Gotta induce alotta flex and jank in that linkage with that little leverage.
  • 1 0
 Can we go back to just saying "colors"? Is Landlord Tan any more glamorous if we call it a "colorway"?
  • 1 0
 Add this to the long list of gearbox bikes we see announced and never hear from again.
  • 1 0
 Am I the only person dumb enough to still not understand how the sus works. A huck to flat slow mo would help a lot.
  • 1 1
 Great use of carbon, it would be difficult to make a frame that's so.... interesting looking.... in aluminium.
  • 1 0
 Gonna be a hell of a hose routing for Shimano brakes to work on this.
  • 5 4
 Guess they didnt care about looks
  • 1 0
 compensates for the flat scenery in the Netherlands
  • 2 0
 Looks like a summum
  • 3 1
 Eww
  • 1 0
 I never thought the old roller coaster chain guides would make a comeback.
  • 1 0
 They couldve put that tensioner inside that huge empty front trianle
  • 1 0
 That’s gonna be a no from me dawg
  • 1 0
 it's a Winner looks like it can take 5 water bottles >
  • 1 0
 Look at that frame bag space.
  • 1 0
 You could store water bottles vertically in that thing!
  • 1 0
 Dangerholm needs to take a crack at a gearbox bike.
  • 1 0
 I want to like it but It's not working.
  • 1 0
 Let's see that leverage curve then.
  • 1 0
 It’s as if a Mondraker decided to get fat/melt in the sun and voila
  • 1 0
 Looks like Ibis and Mondraker snuck into the woods at a party
  • 1 0
 Top tube killed the whole bike
  • 1 0
 Uhhhhh thumb shifter (not gripshift) gearbox???
  • 1 0
 Holy giant top tubes batman!
  • 2 3
 Love the look and innovation but bike weights are getting heavier and heavier. My DH bike weighed 32.5. Lol.
  • 4 4
 That has FAIL writen all over it.
  • 1 0
 Zero doubt about it.
  • 3 2
 .....next
  • 1 0
 yikes
  • 1 0
 mega frame bag space
  • 1 1
 hire a pro rider to help?
  • 1 0
 barf
  • 1 0
 WANT!
  • 2 3
 I wanna see that tensioner after smashing into Squamish granite for a day.
  • 2 0
 It's no more likely to get hit there than a rear mech would be. If you're smashing that part of your bike into rock all day it's not the bike that's the issue.
  • 1 0
 So you must smash your swingarm a lot then?
  • 3 4
 It s got a butter face. Everything is nice but her face.
  • 1 1
 Boy, I'm sure glad you explained what you meant there.
  • 1 0
 @rbeach: thanks Ma*shole!
  • 2 4
 50 blind people.
  • 1 4
 I'd hate to slip a pedal badly on that frame.
  • 1 1
 It would have to be pretty bad for it to be any different to a usual pedal slip.
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