Hiker to Claim Self Defence After Right of Way Dispute Stabbing

Apr 6, 2021 at 10:22
by James Smurthwaite  
Bellingham stabbing car park

A hiker who is facing a felony assault charge following an altercation with a mountain biker is likely to claim self-defense at his trial, the Bellingham Herald reports.

69-year-old Dake Traphagen is accused of stabbing a 66-year-old mountain biker following a right of way dispute on a multi-use, bi-directional trail in Bellingham. He is charged with first-degree assault and an additional gross misdemeanor charge of possession of a dangerous weapon for the use of a spring-blade knife.

A statement provided to The Bellingham Herald by his defense attorney Angela Anderson states, “Mr. Traphagen has a very strong self-defense claim which is supported by two independent witnesses who we expect to testify about the attack on my client. Unlike the alleged victim, he remained at the scene and cooperated with law enforcement... My client is a 69-year-old man who cares about his community, volunteers often, and has no history of violence or aggression. We ask that people refrain from judgment and let the truth come out through the court process.” Traphagen was released on a $1,000 cash bail and will enter his plea at his arraignment on April 12.

Photo: Screenshot Whatcom County Jail.

More details revealed about the incident

Records show that Traphagen was charged on March 23 in Whatcom County Superior Court, where further details emerged about the case. As we previously reported, the incident took place on the Stewart Mountain Trail on March 6 and it appears that neither party was willing to yield while passing each other so an argument broke out over who had right of way.

Traphagen claimed that the mountain biker attacked him with his bike after the disagreement and they fell to the ground. During the altercation, he had pulled out a pocket knife and stabbed the mountain biker in self-defense to get him off as he feared for his life. However, the mountain biker claims that his handlebars were grabbed, which caused him to lose balance, so he and the bike tumbled onto the hiker as he was still clipped in. It was at this point he claims he was stabbed multiple times.

Court filings now reveal that a bystander has filmed the incident. The video apparently shows that a woman hiking with Traphagen was grabbing the mountain biker's helmet during the incident and that the hikers were all shouting at the biker to get off Traphagen throughout. After the mountain biker had got up from the altercation, court records state that he was asked what was wrong with him, he said he had been stabbed multiple times and then Traphagen told him, "you are lucky".

The woman filming the incident apparently rang 911 after the mountain biker had asked for someone to do so three times as she was concerned he would pass out on his way down the trail. A witness from neither party who came across the incident apparently wanted to perform first aid on the mountain biker but didn't feel safe due to the aggressive behavior from the hikers, court records report.

The mountain biker received five stab wounds from the incident. He suffered excessive blood loss and a nerve in his arm was severed. He has apparently lost feeling in some of his fingers and has been told the damage could be permanent. We will update this story as more information becomes available.

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Member since Nov 14, 2018
1,770 articles

  • 898 3
 “ Unlike the alleged victim, he remained at the scene and cooperated with law enforcement...”

Uhhhh - Maybe he left the scene because he was bleeding profusely and had to get to the hospital? Odd take...
  • 693 4
 Also a fairly natural response to want to distance yourself from people who have proven stabby in the very near term...
  • 57 28
 Sorry for the thumbs down. Accidentally hit the wrong button!
  • 171 2
 Above quote: And this is way people hate lawyers. Seriously? And self-defense because he was scared for his life, when it was a group vs one cyclist, who didn't have a dangerous weapon? Not to mention independent video shows you're wrong? What the @#$%!!! Utter bs.
  • 195 0
 Haha. Person 1, after being attacked and stabbed multiple times by person 2, sat down beside person 2 and both calmly waited for the police
  • 39 1
 @mtbikeaddict: You're not wrong, but at the same time, our justice system requires that both the State (prosecution) and the accused (defense) are represented by attorneys, and it's the defense attorney's job to make any and all arguments that they can in order to get their client acquitted. All it takes is one bike-hating moron on the jury to buy the argument, and you get a hung jury instead of a conviction. I don't know how good of a system it is, but it's the system we've got.
  • 8 0
 @snl1200: Lol, brilliant Smile
  • 27 3
 @barp: Fair. I mean, I've got a lawyer in the family... but still ... I long for the days... like Abraham Lincoln wouldn't argue for someone he knew was guilty. Also the hiker is absolute scum.
  • 18 3
 f*cking lawyers. "If you ignore the circumstances, this sounds good for us."
  • 2 0
 @mtbikeaddict: I feel ya.
  • 21 0
 @mtbikeaddict: Can we get a link to the vid?
  • 146 0
 5 out of 5 doctors recommend not hanging out with a group of people after one of them has stabbed you
  • 20 0
 @tincancharlie: I heard it was 6 out of 5, but maybe statistics vary.
  • 14 0
 I wonder if the video will ever makes it's way into the public eye. That would be something.
  • 9 1
 @mtbikeaddict: I hear you. But it's still necessary for attorneys to advocate for guilty clients to ensure that justice is carried out fairly according to the 8th Amendment (i.e., to protect the perp from e.g., small town grudges influencing their sentencing).
  • 56 28
 @mtbikeaddict: the bike was black in color and had plastic bits including a forward positioned hand grip system. It is similar in appearance to bikes observed on military bases around the world. It was an assault bike and should be banned.
  • 7 2
 I think when the biker is better this should be settle via trial by combat.
  • 14 7
 @mtbikeaddict: Not the lawyer's fault. They only help the parties tell their stories. The biker (or technically the public) has his/their own attorney (the prosecutor). Attacking lawyers really distracts from the demented soul that decided to act out his violent fantasies.
  • 6 0
 Yeah, that won't stand up for a minute. If anything it will piss of the judge and jury.
  • 5 0
 @tincancharlie: 6 out of 5 lawyers disagree with you
  • 13 0
 @monstertiki: dude is in his late 60s and has nerve damage, he will NEVER be better.
  • 12 0
 No kidding. "Here, let me just stand here and bleed to death so later you won't be able to hint that I'm a criminal for trying to save my own life."
  • 11 63
flag Lemmyschild (Apr 6, 2021 at 18:38) (Below Threshold)
 @kleinschuster: stfu
  • 6 0
 Indeed, and the rightful owner of the trail surely figured “since I just stabbed this guy, it would look bad if I bailed”
  • 13 11
 @Lemmyschild: Did you miss the sarcasm or are you of the opinion that because an object has a certain appearance it is more dangerous than another comparable item?
  • 10 0
 @EuroinSF: Beyond that, without component legal defense, can we really say the guilty party is guilty? There’s a reason inadequate or incompetent counsel is grounds for a mistrial.

The rider did the absolute correct thing in putting physical distance between himself and the hiker, albeit a tad late in the game. However if this is the story the hiker wants to portray, he’s more than welcome to, but playing the jury for fools rarely works out. I’d be surprised if the lawyer ultimately makes this argument in court as it seems so asinine, but stranger things have happened.
  • 5 0
 And had just been stabbed multiple times FFS
  • 2 1
 @mtbikeaddict: lol they just want his money, even though it means pretending to support bs
  • 7 4
 @barp: almost none of your understanding of the justice system is true. lol

first, you are not *required* to hire an attorney, or have one appointed by the court. its moronic not to, but there is no requirement.

second, since this isn't a capitol offense, it doesn't take a unanimous jury to convict. a hung jury is simply one that cannot get to the necessary votes to convict. whether that is a preponderance or unanimous depends on the crime and jurisdiction. In this case, it would likely just be a majority.

lastly, if you are afraid of being railroaded by the Hikerati on a jury, you can as a defendant, always choose to forgo a jury trial and have it heard by a judge.
  • 12 9
 @EuroinSF: So true, best comment in this sektion. It`s not about what a lawyer does or shouldn't be doing, it is only about the perv who stabbed one of us. How far did humankind come if we still need to fear for our life when interacting which eachother?
This is a much deeper problem which needs to addressed not only in court.
I bet this would not happen anywhere near me, as we simply have not so many Karrens & weapons over here. We do have arguments from time to time, small ones, some RAGE mode ones for sure, but more often the hikers are happy to share the trail, as we are happy to show them how great our sport is.
Your legal System has a "Self Defense Problem" as this seems to be a golden Ticket for such a long time now. How can a nation still fight to perform laws (Constitution) that were written under different circumstances and which were never intended to be as "permanent as the bible" or could the fathers of the nation have foreseen the modern times with thier problems, weapons or education...? I mean they where written when they invented to light bulb... no one would consider any invention or other book from that time to be still relevant and acurate to the date. Even the light bulb had to undergo many changes...
I'm not saying this case is a classic US nightmare, but your country needs to rethink how to deal with weapons. Not only knifes, than when it is normal to oppenly carry assault riffles in a city, what does it make with your mind?
Would you show your kids how to abuse drugs? Clearly not. But drugs kill less than a forth than weapons do...

Enough of this shit! Go out and ride your damn bike, this is what we came here for, isn't it?

And just to be clear I don't want to piss off any of you and I do have deep respect to your nations heritage.
  • 2 1
 This is wild. Dake is a guitar maker:
  • 4 0
 @snl1200: as a general rule I always try to distance myself from anyone who has ever proven stabby
  • 2 1
 @snl1200: FACKIN HIKER ZOMBIE a*sholeS!!
  • 2 0
 @tincancharlie: i just lulzed out loud.
  • 4 1
 @x-rider: nice analogy with the light bulb Razz

The Aussies had similar firearms issues (not to quite the same extent) where there were many many unlicensed firearms out in public. An amnesty was held and all were banned and handed in. Now only licences firearms for hunting, farming etc are allowed. Certainly no automatic weapons...
  • 1 0
 @kleinschuster: sarcasm? LOL.
  • 1 0
 @AndyCr: Colony of historic criminals...if the shoe fits...
  • 2 0
 @RonSauce: well in the event of permanent injuries preventing participation, in accordance with the ancient rules of trial by combat, a champion can be chosen to fight on behalf of the injured party.
  • 3 0
 @monstertiki: considering i was attacked twice last year by crazy old hikers I will happily step in for this guy.
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce: Do tell...
  • 11 0
 @pmhobson: first one a guy stood at the top of a hill in the middle of the trail, I got off my bike and asked him if they were ok, dude took a swing at me and started yelling about liberals like me ruining america and having no respect for LEOs. His partner pulled him back and vigorously apologized for the other guy.

#2 was almost the same story as this one. Straight access road, we see eachother from 100 yards. I was having a mechanical issue riding slow, me and the hiker made eye contact probably 6 times as I approached, he stepped all the way off the side of the trail and waited for me. As I was saying "good morning " he jumped forward, grabbed my handlebars and yelled that he has the right of way and I never gave him any warning. He was trying to pull my bike out from under me, I pushed him back into the woods where he fell on his back.
Legend has it he still is in the brush.
  • 5 0
 @conoat: Wow, rude and wrong. What a winning combination.

First: Here, a defendant is entitled to an attorney irrespective of their ability to afford one. That is because USA jurisprudence recognizes that it's unjust to try somebody without representation. Yes, a defendant can choose to represent themselves, but as you say that would be moronic, so I don't know why you even brought it up.

Second: The US Supreme Court ruled in 2020's Ramos v. Louisiana that non-unanimous juries could not be used to convict criminal defendants. And that ruling was relevant only to Oregon and Louisiana, the only two states that had still allowed it. Hint: Washington is not Oregon or Louisiana, and the year is now 2021.

To your third point: Well, I can't even tell what your point is there, so feel free to try again to express clearly what your point is and moreover, how it relates whatsoever to what I wrote. A hiker is the one who will be put on trial, so why would a supposed "Hikerati" railroad them? Did you mean "Velominati"?
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce: Some say that on calm night under the new moon, you can still hear tumbling through the understory.

Seriously though, glad nothing worse came from those encounters.
  • 6 4
 @AndyCr: do you understand what it takes to acquire a class 3 ATF item? 99.9% of the US population will not have or commit the resources and time to own an automatic firearm, SBR, or suppressor. This is the exact reason why pistols are the most commonly used firearm configuration in crimes and suicides even though your favorite news source doesn't want you to recognize that. And the same reason an uninformed group thinks banning a certain type of firearm, controlling magazine capacity, or stopping people from manipulating pieces of metal into a function firearm will make any difference in the firearm death rate. Remember that heart disease, cancer, accidents, respiratory issues, stroke, alzheimers, diabetes, and influenza all kill multiples more people per year than all firearms related events combined. Weapons are not the problem it is an unnecessary war on drugs, mental health, and the cocktail of prescription drugs prescribed claiming to alleviate said mental and physical issues previously mentioned that need the thorough evaluation.
  • 1 0
 @powderturns: nice looking acoustics even. What a dake.
  • 1 0
 @AndyCr: Thanks for your feedback. I know the situation in Australia was different from the weaponized KAREN Problem in the US right now. But good point as it shows that there can ba a change if you are willing to do so. Non person should need to be scared for their life. Act of self defense can also be to back off, this will not hurt appart from your ego.
  • 1 0
 @snl1200: Tru dat !
  • 2 2
 @kleinschuster: ah the straw man fallacy!!! Blame all the other issues because they’re bigger to divert attention on the issue at hand. Couldn’t agree more with you that all the other issues you bring up are as important in society and should be addressed.

This doesn’t change the fact that no one needs any firearm let alone the auto ones.

You say only 0.1% can be bothered to get ‘big’ guns. 0.1% of 333 million people is still 333,000 or 1/3 of a million people. Just totally unnecessary. You also missed my point.

AUS had problem
AUS got rid of guns
AUS now has no problem

For the record I don’t think you should ban certain types of firearm. I think you should ban ALL firearms. Flame away Smile
  • 2 1
 @AndyCr: the only ban here should be you from grown up conversations.
  • 1 2
 @AndyCr: No straw man, just making sure you understand that there isn't an automatic weapons issue in the US and that they are not readily available to anyone that wants one. You cannot walk into a store and buy one, the whole process to obtain an automatic weapon takes 10s of thousands of dollars and approximately 8-12 months for all the checks and paper work to be completed. I don't know what a "big gun" is but you clearly have zero experience with firearms whether that is using them or understanding how they are obtained. Each of the issues I listed individually kill multiples more than anything you would like to choose to link to a firearm related death. You're opinion is held by a minuscule minority in the US because most people on any political team value the constitution in some form which entitles those not specifically denied based on their own actions the right to bear arms as confirmed by Heller Vs. DC. Turn off CNN, MSNBC, TYT, or wherever else you're getting your brain cleansed at and look at the numbers to see that there are much better hills to die on if you are truly concerned about reducing the amount of lives lost by the general population. There is no way the US government will ever get the population to relinquish their legally acquired tools that are used to put food on their tables and defend themselves.
  • 2 0
 Dake pleaded guilty today, 26 Apr 2023. Dake is now a felon.
  • 2 0
 @mlanham: Thanks for the update--you got a news link or anything? I can't find anything.
  • 289 4
 69 and 66 year old - proof that maturity is not directly related to age..... Learning how to de-escalate is a highly underrated skill
  • 24 3
 THIS!!!!! +10000
  • 26 10
 There's also age-related mental decline in play by that point....which can lead to pretty unpredictable behavior.
  • 38 64
flag MisterChow (Apr 6, 2021 at 12:14) (Below Threshold)
 This is the demographic that coins itself "The Greatest Generation."
  • 76 6
 @MisterChow: 66-69 is baby-boomers, not "The Greatest Generation"
  • 31 8
 Didn't we learn in grade school that girls mature faster than boys? I think they told us something like girls were more mature at age 12 than boys were at age 73.
  • 61 4
 @Explodo: And yet our president and most of congress are usually that age or older. Scary.
  • 3 0
 @ACree: Agreed.
  • 45 0
 You can only be youthful for so long, but you can be immature forever
  • 9 19
flag donpinpon29 (Apr 6, 2021 at 14:03) (Below Threshold)
 @ACree: never quite understand that. At that age you are slowing down and need too much advise. Tell that to trump haha
  • 17 0
 Two adult children manage to escalate a very simple situation into a stabbing incident.
  • 1 0
 @Explodo: defense attorney will pull that card down the road.
  • 9 28
flag headshot (Apr 6, 2021 at 22:17) (Below Threshold)
 Bunch of live at home millennials whining about Baby Boomers. Bwahaha...
  • 4 1
 Victim blaming is also an underestimated skill.
  • 16 0
 Totally agree. Here in Austria mountainbiking is vorbidden pretty much everywhere. It's just insane how violently the older people react when they meet mountainbikers. We always try to be cheerful and let them pass. It's just hard to stay polite when other people scream at you...
  • 2 2
 News headline should read: ' Two senile old people end up in altercation after becoming confused and disorientated by their surroundings and failing to act like civilised human beings.'
  • 233 8
 This is all the more reason to ride with flat pedals
  • 91 0
 Just imagine! Biker chuckles at knife and says "Thats cute, mines at least tasted blood", hops off and throws bike with pedals facing outward
  • 64 208
flag mtb-chronicles (Apr 6, 2021 at 11:43) (Below Threshold)
 More reason to ride with a gun ... lol
  • 117 62
 @mtb-chronicles: get help if you need to ride with a gun. f*ck sakes. PaRaNoIa
  • 85 23
 @ridingofthebikes: When I ride in Jackson Hole, someone in the group always rides with a gun. Bear country.
  • 38 122
flag tomboyjr (Apr 6, 2021 at 12:56) (Below Threshold)
 @ridingofthebikes: You must live in liberal la la land
sorry this was meant for the post before
  • 5 0
 @digitalcarnivore Exactly! Then when somebody pulls a knife on you, you slice their shins up with the pedals!
  • 18 0
 @wvanlogg: Best advertisement for the daggas possible
  • 76 9
 @hamncheez: But if it is an american bear, don't you fear it could also carry a registered gun ? I would definitely not threaten a bear with a gun
  • 118 10
 @tomboyjr: I mean, liberal lala land sounds pretty sweet if you don’t need a gun to go for a f*cking bike ride
  • 24 62
flag tomboyjr (Apr 6, 2021 at 15:42) (Below Threshold)
 @ahauck: You prepare yourself for your ride any way you want, I'll do it my way.
  • 11 4
 @ridingofthebikes: yeah it's a weird one - i was menaced pretty solidly once a few years back with my dog by a group of drunk dudes near dysfunction junction. for no discernible reason aside from looking like a 'liberal' (whatever the hell that actually means). defo made me think about carrying but it's just one of those things, i guess i choose to not look at the world that way regardless of what ive been shown at times
  • 3 1
 @mtb-chronicles: is the circus in town?
  • 13 1
 @moturner: Clearly you should have stated that they had disrespected you and your good name, and challenged them to a duel, like all civilized societies.
  • 11 10
 @tomboyjr: 2A idiots: "I carry a gun to protect myself and others I care about"
Also 2A idiots: "I can't bring any medical supplies, then I wouldn't have room for my gun".
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: fair play.
  • 2 3
 Do we need another round of 'clipless is safe as milk' when it is clearly not... some will blame it on the helmet having straps these days (modern helmets: too light not to have them and in arms reach: easy to grab) some will blame it on the handlebar (too wide -others than the rider itself can get a hold), but I put it squarely on eSS Pee Dee...
  • 9 7
 @dkidd: I see this is the wrong site to talk about gun rights and protecting yourself. Most seem to think we should all just chill out-lol. Which is true, but not always the case. And by the way, I also carry bear spray, tools and medical supplies. When the shit hits the fan, all you anti-gunners will want someone with a gun near you to protect you.
  • 105 1
 How do you resort to stabbing when it's one biker against a group of hikers? Punching/shoving/hitting is one thing, to draw a weapon is another. I think this is where the "self-defense" clause is going to fall flat.
  • 32 0
 I wonder if the lawyer will try to argue that a mountain bike constitutes a "deadly weapon"? ... Remember when triple front chainrings were the norm... ever crashed and stabbed yourself with a line of chainring teeth.
  • 64 13
 This is a sensitive topic but here it goes... as a Canadian reading this my first thought was "Sheesh...glad they didn't have a gun..."
  • 26 2
 @kcy4130: if you use anything as a weapon while trying to cause bodily harm, an attorney could claim it was assault with a deadly weapon. At least that's what I've been told by some friends very involved in the judicial system. I'm more versed in bird law myself.
  • 26 125
flag pkrides (Apr 6, 2021 at 11:47) (Below Threshold)
 @s thought canadans were the opposite of a*sholes??? Just because he was an american doesn't mean he'd shoot someone n cold blood even if it was self defense. Are you saying whoever owns a gun is automatically a murderer? People are so dumb about the whole guns topic...what happens when the kind of person that lets say walks into a store to commit mass murder, breaks into you house and you have zero guns to defend yourself and your family wth. some drugs are illegal, murder is illegal, yet people stll murder and do drugs. just wanna say. Nobody risks their lives and would rde across an ocean on a pallet to get to bloody canada.
  • 21 50
flag TotalAmateur (Apr 6, 2021 at 11:49) (Below Threshold)
 @snl1200: the good thing about if someone had had one though is they are generally effective at dissipating an argument without even needing to be fired.

Bottom line, how an argument about right of way got to the point of a physical altercation and stabbing is just ridiculous and says a lot about both parties.
  • 40 0
 @pkrides: I don't think they were making a statement about gun ownership but more on the nature of senor stabby from the article. it's probably best the guy didn't have a gun if this is how he is going to handle situations that could easily be diffused.
  • 21 0
 @TotalAmateur: I'm aware that bird law in this country is not governed by reason and hummingbirds are a legal tender but where are we with gulls?
  • 53 5
 @TotalAmateur: Guns have a "generally effective at dissipating an argument" .... Hard no on that one. Well, a holstered gun on the hip of a rational and calm person generally reduces a crazy person's enthusiasm for a fight but in this case, neither man was calm or rational. If the hiker didn't have a spring knife, then they would have had geriatric shoving match and gone their separate ways. Weapons in the hands of crazies just make bad situations worse.
  • 28 2
 @TotalAmateur: I know I opened these flood gates with my initial comment and might regret it a tiny bit here- but to clarify- is your argument that guns are helpful tools to end arguments? Further, to link your first clause with the second- could you not assume there is a high probability someone who stabbed someone multiple times might also shoot them rather than peacefully showing them their gun to stop elevated discourse (an argument I'm suspect of...if that wasn't clear)?
  • 21 42
flag TotalAmateur (Apr 6, 2021 at 12:44) (Below Threshold)
 @kcy4130: ya I'm not arguing that crazy people should have guns, but you don't hear about all the times guns prevent altercations because......wait for it......they are prevented. I'm not saying it's a cure all for situations but my point was that it's possible to dissipate a situation without shooting someone, while using a gun.
  • 42 2
 @pkrides: stop embarrassing yourself lmao.

This ape literally stabbed a dude who fell on him accidentally in close quarters. This isn’t about whether he’s American, he is UNSTABLE and WEAK MINDED. Don’t give that man a f*cking gun. Don’t give that man a f*cking car either.
  • 12 35
flag TotalAmateur (Apr 6, 2021 at 12:49) (Below Threshold)
 @snl1200: no I'm not saying guns are good for ending arguments, maybe I misspoke lol. I'm just saying its easy to end a possible altercation just by presenting a gun.
And I'm in no way saying this situation would be improved by adding a gun to the mix. My only point is that in situations similar to this one, a third party presenting their firearm and telling the other two to cool off and kick rocks could have dissipated the issue. pretty much the intended goal for police.
granted this situation is super f*cked, but just wanted to play devils advocate and point out that not every situation that is solved with a gun, is solved with a gun firing.
  • 11 4
 @snl1200: you can’t reason with unreasonable people bro, just ignore them. What you said was 100% logical and reasonable...nothing to do with ‘Murcia vs the great white north
  • 8 2
 @Handsome-Jeremy: gulls? never heard of em. now if we're talking crows or even crow milk, that's some tender with real potential gains.
  • 7 4
 @nvranka: I'm totally agreeing with snl just for the record. I only felt it was appropriate to point out that rational people can use guns to end disputes without firing them. granted nobody was rational in this particular situation. but I love me some Canada and 'Murica so no harm intended!
  • 11 7
 @TotalAmateur: if there’s no data to prove how many volatile situations have been deescalated because of a gun...due to their prevention...how can you definitively even say that it happens very much at all? Sounds like your logic defeats the point your trying to make. I could just as easily say that more incidents where a gun is pulled end up in violence rather than deescalation and you’d not be able to prove otherwise.
  • 12 5
 @IsaacO: except for the fact that gun crimes are typically tracked where as averted crimes are not Smile so while you're correct there is no empirical data to prove my point, I'm more so commenting on the logic that would explain why you don't see any stats or news. but it seems like this whole page is just largely anti gun so I'm not really expecting anyone to see my POV lol.
  • 6 0
 @TotalAmateur: You don't know about gulls?! You can keep a gull as a pet but you don't want to live with a sea bird, ok, because the noise level alone on those things.... have you ever heard a gull up close? It's gonna blast your ear drums out dude.
  • 14 1
 @TotalAmateur: I think that if someone had pulled a gun the others would have run away and hid in a bush so de escalated. However, if one of the others had a gun, it now becomes a nuclear arms race.

I think both of these guys needed some pot gummies before their hike/ride and none of this would have happened.

At least thats what I tell myself before every ride. Puff Puff Pass is the answer to every dispute.
  • 2 2
 @fabwizard: lol! Right, jesus these guys needed some weed. although if the biker actually did fall because of clips, man that sucks.....
  • 19 1
 @snl1200: @TotalAmateur ;

A Brit here living in Japan who has had the pleasure of riding with many from both Canada and the US.

A few years ago, I was in a shuttle and during a conversation, some guys from the US and I were talking about life living in the UK when someone said that they “...always felt more scared out drinking in London than in the US” and it turns out it was because of all the knives that people might be carrying, rather than guns.

The feeling of most of the Americans who had lived in London was that they saw so many more people pick / start fights in London than in the US. They suggested that there is a fear lacking in London; that being no fear that someone may be carrying a gun. They said that fear does exist for them in the US and this fear tends to make people more likely to de-escalate, or at least be wary of picking a fight.

They all agreed they felt more likely to get hurt in London.

I am not saying any one way is better than another regarding gun ownership Or which weapons are more dangerous in the hands of unhinged folks, I just thought it was a really interesting insight to someone like me who hasn’t lived in a society with guns, and that you both might be interested in the anecdote.
  • 11 1
 @orientdave: thanks now I picture a bunch of drunk Londoners have swordfights, while in the USA we're having shootouts like the Westerns.
  • 5 0
 @PHeller: Sounds about right!! I saw it in the movies in the 1970s so it must be true Wink
  • 2 0
 @orientdave: This is interesting, I was literally thinking to myself how there appears to be a general fear for personal lives in the US not seen in the UK at least. But I guess if there is a greater anticipation that someone could be carrying a lethal weapon, it makes sense that the go-to is to fear for your life even during trivial altercations.
  • 2 0
 @therevfryslim: Me too; I have a fear of living in the US because of the guns, and as a Brit who lived in the UK for nearly 30 years, I was genuinely surprised by what my US mates were saying in that shuttle bus, but all of them were quite genuine in what they were saying. Their main point was their feeling that things escalate a LOT more quickly in London, than it ever did back where they grew up in the US and they put that down to the "maybe someone is carrying" thought back in the US....

Anyways, all interesting thoughts. Have a good day!
  • 2 1
 @nvranka: refusing to see across the aisle and understand opposing ideas. ah the mark of real maturity Big Grin
  • 5 1
 @orientdave: It is interesting. It might also be a response to "an unfamiliar enemy"- Guns are so normalized in America as it is not uncommon to see one sitting in the back of a truck window, in the holster of a dude with a sleeveless plaid shirt at Walmart, or as part of family recreation. Most kids, especially in rural America, have lived around guns, have handled them, and have been influenced by the pairing of them with cultural morals like freedom, protection of their family, or their basic civil rights. Knives and cultures where stabbings are prominent are perhaps less normed. Perhaps it's a bit like when I played rugby in Australia- I live in a mountain town where we see bears all the damn time...like it would be a weird week in the spring and summer to not have a few in my yard in any given week. When in Australia I was terrified of leaving the pitch or reaching into bushes for fear of snakes or spiders and locals would cruise through them barefoot- it was normalized to them.Here I've had friends visit me that refuse to leave the house alone because of fears of bears but even my kids just calmly make noise, play smart and go on with life. So I think the foreign fear of knives might be related to that much like those foreign to American culture afraid of the guns there. Further, I do hate the "fear of mutual destruction" argument for human control though. The idea that we will all behave civil if we know everyone has a gun or knife or bomb etc. I would also argue that the argument has likely not played out as such when we look at statistics on gun deaths. I would far prefer, and perhaps I live in la la land in my quant little mountain town, the assumption that no one is carrying a gun, my risk of death due to guns is low, and we can just agree to try not to be dicks to each other regardless of our mutual guesses to who has the bigger lethal weapon and the energy of guessing the weapon be used to guess the experience of others and try to understand them. For example, the rider in this case dismounting prior to climb and sir stabs-a-lot to that the rider was in a precarious situation, to give him a little space, and not be a psycho stabbing asshat. One may have walked away feeling the other was inconsiderate but no nerve damage, legal challenges that may plague him the rest of his life, or anyone life being at risk.
  • 3 4
 @snl1200: I feel like you are overestimating the prevalence of guns in the US. especially with the continual encroachment from the federal Government.
  • 5 1
 @TotalAmateur: can one overestimate the prevalence of guns in the USA? I would estimate it at about 48% of American households having at least one gun with 18 percent of those gun owners claiming to carry it daily. In Canada the rates are about 22% of homes with guns. However, you also have to breakdown the types of firearm owned and the intent with Canadians largely owning guns for hunting vs. Americans for protection/recreation/hunting....
  • 4 1
 @snl1200: yes, you are actively overestimating haha. You might be pretty close, but people tend to misrepresent the midwest, deep south, or LA valley crowd as the only generic American types. You have to keep in mind that huge metropolitan cities tend to have more left leaning political tendencies, meaning they are less inclined to own a firearm. As far as households that have a weapon, you might be right on the percentage but as far as everyone being acquainted to seeing guns in the rear windows of cars or poking out of a waistband, that's a little bit more of a over-generalization of a few open carry states.
  • 3 1
 @TotalAmateur: For sure- America is a spacious and diverse nation and my experience is often in the rural North West as I live about 10 minutes from the border (I can hear the firearms from here... kidding). That said I have also spent a fair bit of time over the years in metropolitan areas like Seattle, Portland... places with beard oil, participation medals, Subaru's... and good biking in the proximity. For sure there are huge differences that stats will never account for but when generalizing we have to deal with generalizations and hope people are smart enough to recognize the heterogeneity within those stats while still getting the big picture: keeping in mind the diversity on average I would argue more Americans are familiarized and normalized to guns, gun culture and even gun violence than other nations.
  • 3 1
 @snl1200: "Americans are familiarized and normalized to guns, gun culture and even gun violence than other nations."

You just have to look at mass shooting statistics to see that. America had 417 mass shootings in 2019 alone. The UK had two in the 2010s.
  • 2 0
 @Patrick9-32: Just to flip this around. What are the stabbing rates like in UK VS. USA?
  • 5 1
 @fabwizard: The USA is worse.

"Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017."

Don't believe the hype. The UK being terrible for knife crime is a US gun lobby talking point that does not reflect reality.

  • 2 0
 @Patrick9-32: Thats the exact comparison i wanted to know.
  • 4 0
 @Patrick9-32: what's the technical threshold for a mass shooting? That number seems high but I bet if Chicago is in the mix then that sounds like an average weekend.
  • 5 3
 @Patrick9-32: It sort of goes without saying that the country that's an island and way lower population numbers should have less violent crime than one with 2 largely uncontrolled borders, 2 giant coast lines, and roughly 5x the population size. not saying it isn't a problem, but I always roll my eyes when anyone tries to compare 2 countries with more socio-economic/geopolitical differences than similarities.
  • 1 0
 @Patrick9-32: That is interesting and sad. It's all about perception I suppose. I tried the link and it linked me to a 404 error page but easily found it on google. Essentially 4.96 knife homicides/mil US to 3.26/mil people in the UK. The murder by gun stats are staggering in that article. I didn't verify them with others sources, but if accurate are terrifying: 34 firearm homicides/million US to .48 firearm homicides/ million people UK. Yikes. Not sure what the answer is bit it is so sad when you consider that each of those is someone's family member, a horrific trauma, and a life and consciousness no longer lived.

Anywho- I have delved deeper down this tangent than I wanted- my initial comment was that this person acted irrational and violent and having a gun might have made it worse. I hold to that. As David Hemenway, a professor of health policy at Harvard said, the presence of guns doesn't appear to impact crime rates, however, "What guns do is make hostile interactions—robberies, assaults—much more deadly" (www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no)... and I think that would have been the case here. Small caveat that expectedly spiralled as any discussion on the topic tends to.
  • 1 1
 @TotalAmateur: Um, the comparison was per population.

And you can literally swim from France to England so i dont think that is a protected border either.

England is way older than USA, much more time for criminal associations to form(looking at you Stone Masons ;-).

Their cities have have high densities as well.

Probably a lot more alike than not.
  • 3 0
 @fabwizard: do a quick google search of the amount coastline, and border mileage that the US patrols vs England. Also not sure time is any indication of organized crime strength, the Mexican cartels are a fairly new facet of crime and they're not going anywhere anytime soon. And I just don't think you can compare the two when one has 60mil and the other has 300mil, plus illegal immigrants. And its sort of a historical norm that if you have a bigger population with unprotected borders, you need a tyrannical government more or less to adequately control the masses.
  • 1 0
 @TotalAmateur: You may want to check out density per sq km(mile) to see how they compare then. The point is to compare per population, which is what the rates above are. As opposed to a direct comparison of 60 million to 300 million, which of course 300 mill is bigger.

OK Lets switch it around and find the comparison between Canada and US. We have the longest coastline in the world, with very little population to protect it. We also have lots of guns.
  • 1 0
 @fabwizard: Looks like we are at .72 compared to the US's 4.6 or 4.8 depending on what stats you look at. This is with a huge coastline and 34 guns per 100 people vs. the US's 120 guns per 100 people.
  • 1 0
 @snl1200: Wow that 34 guns per hundred still seems massive.

But probably makes sense. I know a couple hunters and they have 10 and 12 guns respectively, but no one else I know has a gun.

To contrast an old buddy of mine from Oregon had at least 30(note not a hunter but had a concealed weapons licence). Example behind his front door was hidden a Glock, a 3030 and a 12 guage(loaded and ready) and there were guns hidden in every room in his house. You would sit on his couch, feel a lump, reach under the cushion and pull out a hand gun.

Also note, I am licenced to buy/own rifles but do not own one.
  • 1 1
 @fabwizard: well my point is that with more human interaction which comes with higher population numbers, the greater the likelihood of violent interactions. Especially given certain geopolitical factors. (totally reaching on that theory too but it doesn't seem too unfeasible).
Comparing Canada vs US isn't much better unfortunately given the different border threats, and vastly different population size. And at that point I think you'd almost have to bring the weather into play.

I'm sure some stud economist could sit down and actually hash out a pretty good model to predict the resulting effect in the homicide rate certain factors like population size, " " density, average weather, unemployment rate, and illegal drug/arms trades that happens domestically.
  • 2 0
 @TotalAmateur: Maybe a better comparison would be cities of similar size. And their rates per. population.

Dont know the answer either. You will never be able to get an agreement on direct comparison as every city will have it differences.

Lets wait for the statistician to chime in and tell us we are all wrong.
  • 1 0
 @fabwizard: there are some pretty in depth economic models that predict a lot of stuff that I never would have thought could be mathematically quantified, with some degree of certainty.
  • 4 0
 @TotalAmateur: @fabwizard

"with more human interaction which comes with higher population numbers, the greater the likelihood of violent interactions"

"Lets wait for the statistician to chime in and tell us we are all wrong"

Well, luckily, you didn't have to wait long. The statisticians at the FBI have done a study of that very thing, and their findings were reported in the Journal of Criminal Justice in 2002.


If you don't like your maths, it might not be your thing, but the most relevant pages (to me at least) are 4 and 5, and in particular, the relationship between population size and violent crime rate (in cities in the US).

To boil it down to a single sentence...(by all means read the whole article if it interests you)...

The violent crime rates grew as population size increased in cities up to 250,000 people (these were the cities with the most violent crime per person) and then dropped off again significantly in even larger cities; AKA ⇒"Cities with under 100,000 people, or conversely over a quarter of a million people have significantly less violent crime than those with a population between 100,000 to 250,000." (My quotes, not theirs)

Where are those cities in the US?

Rank that data table by population size and, according to the FBI at least, you'll know where not to live!
I see Fargo makes the list. Smile

Of course, that is only a single variable analysis, so can probably be challenged by a multi variable analysis that shows population size to be less relevant compared to variable, A, B, C....etc.

The FBI may not have the money for that; that kind of analysis can not only take generations, but a doctorate in statistics to begin to understand, which I for one can't.

Anyways, just thought you might be interested,
  • 3 0
 @orientdave: you rock thanks for the data!!
  • 2 1
 Ahhh yeah... the oily-dirt 5 year calf tattoo from riding over your own leg from a pedal-slip....memories of old.....@kcy4130:
  • 1 1

No evidence is not evidence of the negative case.

Just as logical to argue "having NO GUNS deters crime 100% of the time no crime is committed".
  • 3 0
 @taijidave: Sorry, which point were you responding to?
  • 2 1
 @snl1200: Plot twist - Aggro hiker was packing his Glock but decided gunfire was too extreme so he went with Level 10 Slash-n-Stab Mode ...
  • 97 0
 carrying a spring blade knife for a walk, stabs a biker in rage and claims self defence. get screwed.
  • 57 0
 Right? And then says you "you got lucky". Sounds like old dude has a few screws loose already.
  • 10 5
 I'm a little unclear on that point. Cant tell if it's media sensationalism or not.

Like 90% of general purpose Gerber/Kershaw/etc pocket knives have a little bit of spring assist to help opening one handed. That a lot different that an OTF Microtech "switchblade" spring blade.
  • 13 0
 If the story truly is how it's sounding, I could see this just angering the judge even more. Maybe there's evidence we don't know about, but I'd imagine admitting fault and taking a deal here would be the better option than coming up with a bullshit excuse. This whole thing sounds insane. I feel terrible for the biker, massive blood loss and severed nerve. Hope he sues the shit out of these people.
  • 147 54
 This is so stupid, everyone involved should be ashamed. I really don't care who is at fault, the fact that a right if way dispute escalated this far is enough evidence that both these geriatrics need to calm down.
  • 166 7
 One person was stabbed 5 times. BOTH sides need to calm down?
  • 91 1
 It doesn't sound like the guy on the bike was agreeing to a knife fight. Stabbing the guy 5 times was completely disproportionate to the situation and I hope the hiker is jailed and sued civily.
  • 28 4
 @rewob: Well, if you look at what he was wearing, he was totally asking asking for it. (Control-alt-sarcasm)
  • 57 0
 @rewob: But what if the Biker was riding super boost
  • 20 29
flag nvranka (Apr 6, 2021 at 12:41) (Below Threshold)
 Uh....what? f*cking jerry stabs a fellow brother for riding his bike and you want both sides to calm down?

I hope this ape rots in prison for at least a few years of what he has left in his pathetic existence. He’ll get tough with someone inside, and they’ll do what needs to be done. Put him down.

What a f*cking coward. A boomer if I’ve ever seen one.
  • 24 1
 The guy who was stabbed was also pulled over by the stabber, which is also assault. Basically the biker is innocent and the hiker needs to calm down.
  • 31 19
 To everyone saying the response was disproportionate you aren't wrong but you're implying that an escalation to a lesser form of violence would be acceptable. The way I read the article I assumed both parties engaged physically before the stabbing took place. The point is it takes two to tango. If you're too stubborn to take two seconds out of your day to avoid a fight you need to calm down.
  • 1 0
 @JPostuk: i think in washington state the law is two willing adults can agree to fistfight but there's no weapons...

someone call @PheonixJones for the mutual combat rules, I dunno.

these trails dont seem worth fighting over, let alone stabbing

anyone remember the old guy who stepped to the territorial mountain goat and got rammed off a cliff to his death? vim and vigor i tell ya!
  • 5 20
flag rewob (Apr 6, 2021 at 13:39) (Below Threshold)
 @JPostuk: got it. You will stab somebody at the drop of a hat. Pretty aggressive for a f*cking Canadian
  • 13 2
 @rewob: Thank you for your incredibly good faith interpretation of what I was saying. I obviously was implying that it is the natural response to stab someone at the slightest notion of conflict. I could not possibly have meant that violence in any form is an unacceptable response to someone refusing to step aside on a trail and the escalation of said violence is a secondary issue.
  • 16 1
 @rewob: seriously this wasn't a "both sides" incident. It was a group of people vs one guy, sounds like they grabbed his bike and knocked him down from videos, then stabbed the dude multiple times. This was an aggressive monster and a victim.
  • 7 0
 @JPostuk: It also takes 2 for felony assault with a deadly weapon. 1 person with the deadly weapon, and one person to get stabbed.
  • 4 1
 @DylanH93: the only thing it sounds like is rampant speculation as none of the individuals here were there and nobody has seen the video.

But there are no knives in the forums, so why not have everyone furiously argue about nothing - good practice for real human interaction.
  • 6 0
 Honestly we have no idea why there was grabbing. It sounds like the rider was still clipped in. The group of hikers blocked his path, boxed him, grabbed his bars, which probably threw him off balance, where he literally fell onto the knife wielder. Who then used the unfortunate event to shank the guy just trying to get off the ground. Another reason not to ride clips.
  • 4 7
 @DylanH93: takes 2 to escalate a situation to this level so yes dumb and dumber are both to blame. One could simply have yielded and this probably would have been limited to a profanity laced verbal exchange. Remember in this county it is innocent until proven guilty and eyewitness accounts are routinely unreliable. Until claimed video is released and it shows the entire event not just the middle or end then you can judge who should have calmed down.
  • 6 0
 @kleinschuster: No amount of profanity justifies stabbing another human and possibly killing them. There is a qualitative difference between words and physical actions. You cannot claim you stabbed another in self-defense of your wounded psyche. Wink

P.S. if the hiker had a better story, the lawyer would have told it.
  • 3 1
 @EuroinSF: You're assuming you know the whole story and the defense attorney publicly laid out all their cards. You don't and I'm sure they didn't. The likelihood that each party involved didn't contribute toward the end result is very unlikely. I'm not saying stabbing was the right response to anything that occurred. But two morons tangled in the woods because they were too stubborn to yield to one another. No one here knows how it started and who was the original aggressor or how each side may have provoked the other.
  • 1 0
 This is dumb. 60-70 yrs old is hardly senile age and even talking about people in an age group as being one way or the other is idiotic and ageist. The unknown here is who the 'hikers' vs 'mountain biker' were. We like to label people and to infer behavior, but for all we know they could have been a bunch of hicks walking around and a random aggressor on a bicycle.
  • 82 1
 OneUp to introduce the dagger EDC tool
  • 33 0
 Every Day Carnage?
  • 29 0
 @barp: Essential (self)Defensive Cutlery
  • 11 1
 press a button on your grip and your knife pops out of your head tube so you can catch it mid air all ninja/jedi like.
  • 3 0
 @wpplayer18: Copyright that right now.
  • 59 1
 Who here has encountered the trail runner on the Wasatch crest? White guy with dreads. Usually there around 6am. I was climbing up a section of the singletrack after puke hill and he was suddenly there, headed towards me. I didn't have time to dismount, so I reflexively put my foot down and tried to move off the trail. I wasn't fast enough, and he just ran into me intentionally, trying to knock me over. Luckily I'm 200 pounds former wrestler and hes a trail runner. It caught me by surprise tho, and would have knocked down a smaller person. I've heard others have had encounters with him too.
  • 24 0
 Never, but Ill keep an eye out for him with my scissors.
  • 109 4
 White guys with dreads = red flag warning.
  • 5 0
 Well that's unfortunate. Strange to be in that headspace at 6a when you're up in the alpine enjoying a run that it's okay to be a c*ckweasel to other trail users.... and especially to assume (?) that nobody is going to escalate and then it turns into a shtshow.

This discussion and a recent experience w/ hikers on a bike-specific trail in corner canyon last week remind me to put my timber bell back on... and i guess i need to use it on bike-specific trails too.
  • 13 1
 If he’s doing that shit regularly, you and the boys should pay him a visit.
  • 18 0
 Ah yes, the elusive blue eyes white dragon
  • 5 0
 You sht carry a knife.
  • 5 0
 @WasatchEnduro: first mistake riding corner canyon haha
  • 6 0
 @EricHarger: watch out for the gingers with dreads they are fng crazy
  • 6 12
flag TotalAmateur (Apr 6, 2021 at 15:10) (Below Threshold)
 @EricHarger: "occupy wallstreet" dreads they're called.
  • 3 1
 Did you have a polite chat to discern his motives and explain your tardy trail clearing actions?
  • 4 0
 The obvious solution is to just stab him 5 times Smile
  • 1 0
 Maybe you saw an emaciated albino bigfoot
  • 58 0
 Not sure if this was mentioned in prior comments or posts, but the day the incident happened, the hiker (or his partner, I can't remember which one) took to social media and absolutely ripped into mountain bikers as a whole, and urged community members to call city council to complain about bad behavior people had witnessed from mountain bikers in Bellingham. This dude has an agenda and it's not in our favor. While I'm sure there is occasional crappy behavior by riders, this is a great time to just remind people to take the high road so there is no ammo to complain to officials about behavior on mutli-use trails. My personal opinion is this guy just hates bikers and wants to see us banned from trails. He clearly isn't shy about being very public about this. The whole situation is garbage.
  • 9 0
 Seriously, there are people who think mountain bikes are destroyed the earth. Facepalm
  • 1 0
 Everyone has an agenda! ! !
  • 8 0
 Both Drake and his partner were posting repeatedly on Next Door, only hours after the stabbing. The commentary was mostly thinly veiled, but sometimes overt, “mountain bikers are ruining this town and need to be stopped. Please contact the parks department, the city, etc.” There were so many people responding about how evil cyclists were; how much it angered them that they were getting in their way on the roads. There was a lot of hiker and driver anger toward mountain bikers and road cyclists. Any posts suggesting the story seemed fishy, or that maybe there was another side to the story, were met with “you weren’t there!” or “there is no other side to this.”

Of course the post was taken down after Drake was arrested. Unfortunately every time a new post goes up on Next Door about this conflict it seems to get taken down (links to newspaper articles included). The confirmation bias for the anti cyclist crowd drives me crazy. I wish that stuff would live on the internet forever...

...like Pinkbike comments.
  • 58 6
 As a Brit this whole thing seams mental. I mean who takes a knife on a hike?? In the UK just having a knife on your person in public is up to 4yrs jail time. When we have these kinds of on trail arguments we normal wait till we've passed each other and then yell something from a safe distance and then go home for a angry cup of tea to calm the old nerves
  • 22 0
 Lol that’s the most British thing I’ve ever read
  • 13 0
 You really can't carry a pocket knife in the UK? I carry a small knife and use it all the time (not on people!)
  • 12 4
 You go hiking in the woods with bears, cougars and wolves you might want to take more than plucky attitude.
  • 30 1
 Just wait until you hear about our healthcare system.
  • 2 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: yeah I'm surprised by this too. I always have a 2-3"court knife on me.
  • 23 0
 @bikerbarrett: Yeah I had a few bear encounters over in Canada, them floofy bois took one look at my 3 inch swiss army knife and we're outta there so fast.
  • 3 0
 This is why you guys have such a good reputation over here Beer
  • 4 0
 @bikerbarrett: don’t forget moose
  • 1 0
 @TobiasHandcock: Yeah bears are usually pretty chill.
  • 7 0
 I always carry a 2 inch Swiss army blade, you can't be too careful with all those grey squirrels around
  • 6 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: No, it's not true. You're allowed small pocket knives up to 3" long. Anything longer or non-folding is illegal in public, without good reason.
  • 5 0
 @pimpedupmonkey @BiNARYBiKE

Not entirely true that you can't carry one in the UK. You can carry a small folding knife (up to 3" blade length, has to be folding, not spring loaded and not one of the banned types e.g. balisong, disguised etc.) in public in the UK. A Swiss army knife in your pocket is fine.

As for larger knives, the law says you can't carry them "without good reason" so while it might be harder to justify on a short and easy day hike, I will definitely always carry a proper knife on multi day hikes with camping. I hope that's "good reason" enough for the authorities if I ever have to explain myself.

[edit] @gkeele was quicker Smile
  • 1 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: I carry a Leatherman that has a small knife in it. I have used it to trim tubeless plugs on the trail.
  • 54 2
 Italian proverb:
"If you argue with a strong person, you risk a fist in your face.
If you argue with a weak, you risk to be stabbed".
  • 7 0
 Dam, that's a really insightful, thanks for sharing.
  • 2 0
 That could be re-written to: "If you argue with a strong person, you will get a calm and reasonable reply."
  • 4 0
 @freeriderayward: you forgot the "italian" part
  • 1 0
 @me2menow: He meant a hand-waving upturned fist waved around in *front* of your face, followed by graphic depictions of him and your mama.
  • 54 1
 *grabs popcorn and periodically refreshes comments section*
  • 8 5
 nothing entertaining here...
  • 4 0
 @audric: I agree, it's utter madness.
  • 34 0
 Had a similar case in Reno but it was more of a territorial dispute (over public land) and the hiker began to sabotage trails with boards that had nails on landings. When confronted he stabbed an older brother in front of his 15 year old sibling I believe. Scary stuff you never know when people just might snap.
  • 33 0
 Stab five times in self defence?
  • 4 0
 He figured he'd keep stabbing until the guy got off of him.
  • 41 11
 100% that motherf*cker grabbed his handlebars in typical Tilley hat fashion. Don’t drop the soap dickhead
  • 33 38
flag barp (Apr 6, 2021 at 11:59) (Below Threshold)
 Can we please move past prison rape jokes already?
  • 35 22
 @barp: No. We cannot. Don’t drop the soap dickhead, indeed.
  • 4 7
 We always say here on VI the the most dangerous and menacing are the 'Tilley Hat Bunch'........They are the ORIGINAL ENTITLED socialists that contribute nothing but claim ownership everything.....
  • 3 0
 @fat-hub: here in the states, they’re called HOHA’s. www.facebook.com/HikingOnly
  • 28 0
 $1000 bail for a stabbing, huh
  • 28 4
 Dake Traphagen? 69? Stabbing? Bi-directional? What's next, a cougar on the scene? This content needs to be flagged inappropriate.
  • 2 0
 I just googled the guy and it appears hes a relatively well known luthier! (guitar maker)
what a complete tool.
  • 20 0
 The "additional info" seems to point to the rider's favor. I think the hiker is trying to dodge his liability for the injuries he inflicted with that knife.
  • 18 0
 We have some disturbing Trail Trolls in our local area. They keep placing logs and sticks in the trail and in blind landings off natural drops and jumps. Last summer, I suffered cracked ribs from this person placing logs in a blind landing, that took me down. Not sure what to do or how to resolve this situation, but it's upsetting. This shit needs to stop.
  • 17 0
 Trail cams in the offending areas,check them often and you will catch your quarry.
  • 13 0
 Trail cameras
  • 3 0
 I was definitely contemplating game cameras. Got any recommendations? It would be nice if it pinged the phone every time the camera detected motion.
  • 5 0
 @sriracha: Go into a hunting store I suppose. Then put it up facing a likely spot.
  • 2 0
 @sriracha:Cellular Trail Cameras
  • 15 0
 If you're serious about cameras place one where you can get a good shot of whoever your trying to catch, but still keep it hidden or up higher so it's harder to find or steal. Then setup a second camera in an even more concealed area looking at the first camera, the idea being hopefully you get the shot with the first camera and it doesnt get stolen, but if they do spot it and are bold enough to steal it you have evidence of that happening as well. Most people won't think to look for a second camera.
  • 6 0
 @matjtom90: bonus: set one up at the trailhead parking lot for a chance to get their license plate. Not useful if they walk there of course
  • 1 0
 @matjtom90: i think a lot of these game cameras are able to take an image without a flash,unannounced to whomever triggered it.
  • 19 0
 66 and 69 years old? That’s mental. You’d figure someone at that stage of life wouldn’t be involved in something like this.
  • 25 9
 Boomers? This is par for the course for them.
  • 16 0
 Why does this update leave out the part about "the knife he used in the incident was a spring blade knife which is not legal to possess in this state"?
  • 17 0
 Put video on Friday Fails???????
  • 2 0
  • 12 2
 Another issue that probably would have went ok if there was a bell involved. Dake is gonna end up both in jail and without his retirement funds after this. He's a fucking psycho. You don't attack people with deadly weapons unless you think your life is in danger, and that's obviously not the case here.
  • 11 0
 Pretty sure in Wa state if you break any laws, you can't claim self defense. If he had an illegal weapon, he can't claim self defense.
  • 8 4
 He did shout: he’s making a run at us!
  • 12 1
 The craziest parts of this story to me is they are 66 and 69 years old!! Moral of the story, make directional trails!
  • 6 0
 Haha, no then you'll get people going the wrong way on a directional trail and the person they run into will be twice as angry!
  • 3 0
 Apparently this "is" the climbing directional trail for bikers in this trail system.

It just also happens to be a shared multi-use trail (two direction) for other trail users.

But I said it "is" the climb trail for bikes, as the only real mountain bike trail there, is a one way (downhill), black rated trail that comes off the top of the 1800ft climb.
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: Based on the trailhead that was indicated in the article, I think this didn't occur on the sanctioned mtb trails you may be eluding to, but occurred on much less traveled unsanctioned multi-use trails (with no directional or use designations) in a little different area of the City.

This story is so strange and unfortunate. Every hiker (young or old) I have encountered in this region is very polite and friendly to bikers.
  • 1 0
 @ocnlogan: it wasn’t on Chanterelle Trail or anything on that part of Stewart Mt. It was a multi use trail off Y road. That being said... I still haven’t seen a clarification if the cyclist was attempting to pass the hikers while both parties were going uphill, or if they met head on. With the details in the story, it seems really unlikely the cyclist was headed downhill towards uphill hikers. Scenario one... he (eventually) needs to pass and there is no reason substantial reason for a right of way argument. Scenario two or three, the hikers would have the right of way and the cyclist would be wrong. But...
  • 19 6
  • 11 0
 He had a knife and got it out and stabbed somebody who has no knife. Self defence. More like self deluded.
  • 8 0
 Late to the guessing game here (which appears to be the real national sport these days)...based on the fact that the biker was still clipped in when he fell over the stabber, either the biker holds the record for the longest track standing or that was the shortest right of way argument ever. I kind of imagine the biker yelling to the hikers to move on the side (possible not in the nicest of ways) and being grabbed by the handlebars and crashing while trying to pass by the hikers group. Given the age I would comfortably exclude he was trying to run over the hikers, especially going uphill, not sure how else he could have triggered a 'self-defense' reaction. Best bet is to wait to see how it goes in court, especially since there's a video.
  • 2 0
 Good point. It would also mean the knife was produced within seconds i.e. not after a lengthy and escalating argument.
  • 10 0
 Only way the person with the knife can claim self defence is if the person without a knife is Chuck Norris
  • 4 2
 Or if they are a policeman in America
  • 8 1
 They should settle this by making the two gentlemen have a knife fight like on the Michael Jackson Beat It video. Make it a pay per view event with the proceeds going to build more hiking and biking trails. They get there anger out, people get entertainment, and the public gets new trails. It's a win win win situation.
  • 7 0
 This is insanity. As a 65 year old rider who hasn’t lost his mind yet, at least that I know of, the lunatic hiker clearly needs to rot in jail. But, I always yield for hikers on multi use trails because it’s just the decent thing to do. It seems if the biker had just moved over and said, “Have a nice day”, none of this would have happened. But then again some old fart carrying around a spring loaded knife (didn’t those used to be called switchblades?) might be slightly off center and nothing would have helped.
  • 8 1
 Jeez I just googled the guys name, he is a guitar builder, seems like a really mellow dude. Maybe he really hates mountain bikers or was having a real bad day! Weird... Hopefully the biker gets better soon.
  • 2 1
 High end custom acoustic and classical guitars, no less
  • 2 0
 Same here, looked him up and was not expecting that. People can be crazy though, oftentimes it's the ones who look like nothing out of the ordinary.
  • 2 0
 @kleinschuster: Probably means that knife was good and sharp. Luthiers take their cutting tools very seriously.
  • 3 0
 There's a joke about shredding in there somewhere
  • 8 0
 "We ask that people refrain from judgment and let the truth come out through the court process." - Haha, good luck with that!
  • 9 0
 I am so over this kind of fing BS unaccountability! YOU STABBED SOMEONE YOU DAMN BASTARD!
  • 8 0
 I've yet to hear a story where a mountain biker attacked or set a trap for a hiker. Sounds like these hikers were looking for an altercation.
  • 9 0
 JESUS. I thought it was bad in Arizona!
  • 5 0
 @jamessmurthwaite: it would be interesting to see a Pinkbike poll asking who we think should have the right of way:
- in a multi use trail when the biker goes uphill
- in a multi use trail when the biker goes downhill
- in a biking trail when the biker goes uphill
- in a biking trail when the biker goes downhill

I think the direction of the hiker doesn't matter.
  • 4 0
 it doesnt matter about the direction of the biker either, hiker always has right of way. Anything else is courtesy really. If it's a biking trail, the opposite is true
  • 8 0
 Throw the book at these "hiker" a*sholes.
  • 4 0
 Beware these crazy old walkers, these are exactly the type of idiots who have lost touch with reality and put wires and logs across trails. Pulling out a knife over a right of way dispute, who the fuck carries a knife during an amble round the woods anyway.
  • 20 17
 I'm purposefully not taking sides, but this just seems like a sad situation for everyone involved.

One person suffered stab wounds and nerve damage, and another person is staring down felony charges. Not to mention potential civil suits arising from this thing. And all over a right of way dispute? Sheesh.
  • 35 1
 i'm sorry but it kind of sounds like there should be a side to take.. nerve damage is no joke, he's going to be in pain for the rest of his life.
  • 16 1
 Uh....what? There is a clear side here. Hopefully justice prevails and that old cuck gets a taste of his own methodology inside.
  • 9 4
 @crysvb: Nerve damage is no joke. But I'm a bit hesitant to pass judgment on culpability until all the facts are actually sorted out. That's all I was saying. And I think the human tragedy is pretty clear regardless of culpability.
  • 16 1
 @maxlarkin17: next time you get stabbed no passing judgement okay?
  • 8 1
 @TobiasHandcock: I'll do my best. No promises on if I get shot though.
  • 6 3
 You sir, or madame, have exactly the right train of thought.
Best to reserve judgement until more info is known, as it all sounds like the most ridiculous series of events to have ever happened. How on earth does a right of way debate end in a scuffle and a stabbing?!

I wonder if the irony of people jumping to further irrational judgements/conclusions has been picked up at all....

I can only assume that there was a tremendous amount of fear involved on everyone’s part, its really the only thing that I can think of that creates this situation.
  • 5 0
 oh theyre facing felony charges for stabbing another person?....so sad....:'(
  • 1 0
 @me2menow: because people never get charged for crimes they end up being acquitted of.
  • 1 0
 @maxlarkin17: his legal statement is pretty much an admission. Not sure where the gray area is for you?
  • 3 0
 Traphagen (the hiker who did the stabbing) told him, "you are lucky" -- I could make a case for the reverse.. that Traphagen was lucky (whilst also being an idiot and complete piece of sh*t for slinging out a blade)

As in a parallel universe the biker could have been 'someone else' wherein upon awareness of being stabbed (by said piece of sh*t) this inconvenient dust up would now have ratcheted up into the category of actual mortal combat.

Said piece of sh*t had better finish the job because from that point forward - 'someone else' would attempt to inflict grievous injury on said piece of sh*t - and would well be within his/her rights to do so. You never know who might have been the inspiration for that movie "A History of Violence"...
  • 3 0
 Very strange procedure. Is it normal over there to disclose details about cases to the public before the trial starts?
Hard to find impartial jurors if they have all read about the case details in the media before it is presented to them in a courtroom.
Anyway, hopefully justice will prevail.
  • 5 0
 I wonder how old was the rest of hikers because it looks like geriatric wars o_0
  • 5 0
 Meanwhile people out on the trails in New Mexico are friendly af. A little dumb but friendly overall.
  • 15 1
 I guarantee New Mexico has a certain percentage of dickbags just like every single other place on Earth with a human population.
  • 5 0
 @Peally: no doubt but I haven’t encountered them and I spend quite a bit of time out there.
  • 1 1
 Everywhere has some terrible people. That said, here in NorCal I've almost always had positive experiences with other bikers, hikers, and even horse riders. Worst have been times when I come by other younger dudes like myself, they don't give any space and I hold my ground too, and our handlebars clank as we pass by super close. I always give people space but when someone just takes advantage of that when I've got right of way I'm willing to play a bit of chicken being a larger dude. Super rare though, vast majority are incredibly friendly.
  • 4 1
 Not true at all. Almost the same exact thing happened to my father in ABQ north foothills. All aged around their 60's. My dad was approaching a couple with their dogs hiking the same direction he was riding. He said something like "hey hows it going, can I sneak by" and he immediately got an aggressive "NO!" type of response. He said something like "oh yeah?" and just tried to ride around in a wide part of the trial. The woman that was with him crossed her arms and rushed him pushing him over. He tried to get back on the bike and flee and the man chucked a fair size rock at him hitting his leg which made it go numb. There is still some damage today but it was nothing urgent care could actually do.

People f*cking suck.
  • 1 1
 @warimono: well actually it is true because I was giving my opinion. Earlier today was another example of everyone I encountered being very friendly and sharing the trail. I never said it’s doesn’t happen here.
  • 1 0
 @extratalldirtrider: And you know what? Most of the time people are great. I am saying unequivocally there are dangerous pieces of shit hikers out on the trails ready to do harm.
I have definitely ran across those that are annoyed or respond with unfriendly quips as well. It's not the norm but it happens.
I also run into a lot of dimwitted mountain bikers that don't understand the concept of right of way too. When the trails got crowded last year trail behavior got really shitty. I barely touched north foothills because of it any more.
  • 2 0
 @warimono: agreed and yes I’m annoyed fairly often when riders don’t know or exercise the right of way. Also I may be in the minority but I feel emtb-ers should yield even when they’re “climbing”.
  • 8 6
 On a 2-way and multi-purpose trail, the people on foot ALWAYS have the right of way. And for those on wheels, the uphill riders have the right of way. I'm talking about the 2-way trail system, not a strict downhill trail where riders going down always have the right of way. It's pointless to even argue who has the rights of way when people sharing these trails should know the trail etiquettes already. It's a shame that this sort of thing has to happen. Also, for those idiots riding up a downhill trail and remarking these downhill trails on Trailforks as two-way, you should be put in jail because you're endangering other people's lives. You get the stupid hikers during this pandemic hiking up DH only trails and marking them on AllTrails as hiking trails. Not smart!
  • 3 0
 Not the same thing at all, but here in Indy we have a few (small) DH runs. To further confuse things...when the races come to town they re-route many DH runs into uphill climbs. Guess how many riders want to practice before the races to improve their times? The logic in that always makes my head hurt.
  • 7 0
 While you're correct about right of way, there's a pretty big area between someone not following the rules and assaulting someone with a deadly weapon..
  • 4 2
 @DylanH93: I didn't want to comment on that since I I'm not the judge and jury of this incident. But, this could've all been avoided if the cyclist avoided confrontation and went wide around the couple. If things are said, either ignore them and carry on and/or flip them the bird and ride off. I've dealt with pedestrians taken up the whole pathway and some people just don't want to move out of the way for anyone. I'll just go around them. Most people are considerate on the trails and a lot of hikers actually yield to bikers when they don't need to. I think courtesy and respect goes both ways.

One incident I dealt with was a group of hikers along a narrow ridge. The last hiker didn't want to let anyone pass her. But everyone in our group was nice about it and passed the hikers when the path widened. We carried on. On our way back, we met up with the hikers again. But this time, the lady was actually nice and gave me a push up the long hill back up. We all had a laugh about it. Everyone was happy in the end. However, if anyone of us decided to do something about the lady that didn't want to let us pass at the beginning, who knows, our whole riding trip may have turned for the worse.
  • 2 0
 Most bad moments I ever had or have seen with hikers,those were old people.
One time I had a hiker (60-70) how push me out of the trail while I was waiting him to pass by,totally stop both feet on the ground. The rider behind me was a Firefighter(very big guy) and had an argue with the old lad till he said me sorry like a 4 year old children. At the end it was a funny thing,they old guy got his face red exposing his stupid act.
By the way,love when random hikers cheers you like in a WC run!
  • 6 0
 Now I think the clips vs flats debate is settled
  • 2 0
 Sounds like the hikers were taking up whole path, not one “lane”. Should have made room allowing biker to go by. Instead hiker grabs bikes handlebar, causing him to fall.
Ive seen n been subject to hikers grabbing bars before, and brandishing / swinging weapons. They are in suprisingly large part a nasty bigoted bunch. Alot harder to imagine a cyclist ramming hiker while going up rooty hill than it is to imagine hiker grabbing bike.
  • 5 1
 Traphagen like is skilled with the knife:
  • 3 0
 Only in the US of A will a story like this come about. Also get it together people we just want to enjoy the outdoors sans stabbing.
  • 4 0
 the hiker was a good man, cared for his community and volunteered..............then stabbed them!
  • 2 0
 Felony assault? Just charge him with attempted murder.

Did the guy slaughter a waitress with a machine gun who risked his life by delivering an undercooked burger later that day? Still self defense right?!!!
  • 1 0
 I knew Dake. I knew him pretty well and own one of the guitars he made. I knew him to be a careful, precise guitar maker. I knew him to be a low key, soft spoken, decent person in his relationships, not at all a person who would act violently in a dispute. The last time I saw Dake was 1987, so, yes, a lot of years and people change.
I've been on this trail. It has some wide areas where you can comfortably pass others and many narrow portions, some of which there is really little space to step aside. When I go on a wilderness hike I carry a knife; not for stabbing people but for defense and survival reasons. I also carry survival clothing and matches/lighter.
I live on my bicycle, I've toured down the West Coast, a month in Thailand and other shorter multi day rides out of the Portland, Or. area. I don't mountain bike at age 70, but those times I am on a shared path I give others a wide berth. Why? Because when I'm on a bike i'm at the bottom of my rights to the trail compared to horses/walkers. If I was in a situation where I'm telling a walker or a horse rider that they "have to get out of the way", then I'm basically out of control and shouldn't be on the bike!!
I don't know what exactly happened on the day of the incident. Maybe Dake lost his temper and acted out and deserves criminal charges; maybe the rider was on top of him and Dake had legitimate fears for his safety. I don't know. I'll wait for more information. Regards
  • 3 1
 I usually hold the door for others, but maybe I should take to stabbing them 5 times instead. Boomer_doomer missed its target.
  • 1 0
 Proportionality has a lot to say. Stabling someone while your stupid wife holds his head, with a prohibited weapon. Yeah, self-defense isn't really realistic. Well unless you are in Florida...
  • 4 0
 I got to see this video!
  • 6 1
 Do you mean "I've got to see the video" or do you mean that you have seen it? Share the link if you have it!
  • 1 1
 @jojotherider1977: You got a link? I ain't got a link.
  • 2 0
 @Hardnacks: I thought you were saying that you have seen the video.
  • 3 0
 I support the mountain biker.
  • 2 0
 I have the high ground, you can't win.
  • 2 1
 Makes you wonder if these people have a history with each other that is not mentioned. Sad situation to say the least.
  • 4 1
 69.. Nice
  • 4 1
 Attack of the Karens.
  • 1 0
 Eco terrorist stike again. This time with first hand assult vs the usual deadlt booby traps
  • 3 0
 Dude's name is Dake? lol
  • 2 0
 Hopefully, the video will appear on World Star soon.
  • 1 0
 Everyone.go play some raggae music today and feel alright. If only 1 of them had prior to going out in public that day.
  • 2 0
 What a couple tools....figure it out boys.
  • 1 0
 It would be interesting if there was a pinkbike equivalent for hikers, and read the other version. What would they say!!?
  • 2 0
 The same but they would probably team up with the hikers.
  • 2 0
 Pretty surprised bail for stabbing someone multiple times is only $1000.
  • 1 1
 Grumpy Old Men - MTB version Unfortunately, the stabbing could have been prevented if more signs were posted indicating that Washington is a Spring Assisted Knife Free Zone.
  • 3 1
  • 2 0
 carry bear spray
  • 1 0
 Best EDC weapon for self defense from hikers??
  • 1 0
 Drake Ramoray ain't winning this case.
  • 2 0
  • 1 0
 looks like someone is going to jail.
  • 1 0
 Can we get dualcrownaddict on the case?
  • 1 0
 Yo, bear spray where you at?
  • 1 0
 Trail hate crime is real!
  • 1 0
 Dake needs to spend time in jail.
  • 1 0
 At the end of the day, they should both go enjoy an ice cream together.
  • 10 10
 I am glad Pinkbike is really taking a stab at this story.
  • 2 1
 Be careful out there...
  • 1 0
 old man anger issues
  • 1 0
 Steal is real
  • 1 0
  • 4 4
 Judging from the comments, there were an awful lot of people there.
  • 1 0
 The court of public opinion: Judgment shall be swift, and popcorn shall be plenty. :-)
From the few details here it doesn't look good for the hiker, but I'm glad there's video evidence and witnesses. I do trust the legal system, so it'll be interesting to see the verdict. Fact is, if a 'right of way' conversation ends in physical injury, everybody loses anyway.
  • 1 0
 Attempted murder?
  • 1 0
 "Get off my lawn!!!!!"
  • 14 15
 Very pointed coverage.Stabbing to the heart of the story!
  • 7 4
 You might say at the sharp end of story coverage?
  • 9 3
 @cougar797: Lots of piercing insight on the bleeding edge of the news...
  • 4 0
 Headline: 69'er upset Spooners - awkward position stabbing in a threesome!
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