Kogel's Kolossos Oversized Cage Claims to Save you 2.5 Watts for $399

Feb 17, 2021 at 7:12
by James Smurthwaite  

Oversized pulley cages have become common in road cycling on pro and amateur bikes alike in the last five years. They are offered for curly-barred bikes by everyone from Ceramic Speed to Muc Off but haven't become a popular choice for mountain bikers just yet. Hoping to change all that is Kogel, who are bringing their Kolossos cage to SRAM's Eagle ecosystem.

So, why go supersize? Well, the theory is that larger pulley wheels mean the chain has to articulate less therefore reducing unwanted drag. Larger jockey wheels also have a lower rotational speed at the same chain speed, which in turn means less drag in the bearings. These small amounts of drag in the drivetrain probably aren't a huge worry for most mountain bikers but for XC racers and long-distance riders, those little bits of resistance are worth reducing wherever possible.


The current SRAM Eagle derailleurs use 12T top and 14T bottom jockey wheels but the Kolossos increases that to 14T top and 19T bottom. This, combined with ABEC 5 Kogel bearings with silicon nitride ceramic balls, is claimed to translate to a 2.5 normalised watt saving over a standard Eagle set up.

The cages are made from 7075 aluminium in El Paso Texas and Kogel claims their assembly "provides maximum strength and stiffness, improved shifting efficiency, precise shifting and improved chain retention". The cage length is the same as an Eagle set up so ground clearance remains unchanged and there is no need to resize your chain. The Kolossos plus the anchor bolt weighs 87 grams, a 9-gram penalty over SRAM's own system.


The Kogel Kolossos cage is compatible with the mechanical and electronic versions of SRAM Eagle, specifically with the following models: SRAM XX1 Eagle AXS, SRAM XX1 Eagle, SRAM X01 Eagle AXS, SRAM X01 Eagle and GX Eagle. The cage comes in gold, black and red while the pulleys and bolts are available in black, red, gold, silver and blue. The Kolossos is available now for $399. More info, here.


321 Comments

  • 438 0
 holy smokes yeah reduces drag by lightening your wallet...
  • 37 0
 Lets not forget the 3D printed titanium, ceramic bearing hanger you can get from Ceramic Speed - $1,700 US.

CS doesn't have an AXS/Eagle or Shimano 12s one yet but they do have the non-titanium wheeled one for $550 USD.

I'd argue the Kogel ones look cooler though.
  • 47 0
 Aero roadies: „first time?“
  • 105 1
 I’ll wait for the $20 Alibaba version
  • 76 0
 I just looked it up. According to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, all U.S. bills weigh the same: one gram. So they should price this at $454 so you can save a pound of weight from removing 454 grams in the form of $1 bills from your wallet. Bonus you will sit more squarely on your saddle reducing strain on your hips.
  • 52 0
 Came here for the comments. Not disappointed.
  • 1 1
 @alexrosenberry: thanks for that. I couldn't see them. not sure why
  • 7 1
 @vapidoscar: you ride with hundreds of dollars in bills? baller
  • 24 3
 Soon to be seen on an e-bike near you!
  • 1 0
 Could have been a winner for $499!
  • 2 2
 @MRwillP: Ceramic speed does have OSPW for Axs eagle and shimano 12s. they have been around for a little while.
Ceramic speed products come with a 4 year warranty minimum also and yes they are a lot of money but at the top end of racing every little helps.
  • 3 0
 @ninjatarian: my workshop manager runs oversized jockey wheels on a limited edition sworks tarmac. Works a blast
  • 2 0
 @saturnine: I did not say me. I said you. I'm on 8 speed advent, which was cheapest clutch derailleur at the time I bought it.
  • 11 1
 @vapidoscar: i'd love to ride with money on me but i bought a new oversized derailleur cage
  • 2 1
 @ninjatarian: I was going to say the exact same thing!
  • 1 0
 @Upduro: f*ck me that is a funny comment.
  • 1 0
 And weight by 399 grams
Smile
  • 1 0
 You ride MTB with a wallet?
  • 1 0
 @MRwillP: Then that's the steal.
  • 1 0
 @saturnine: it's all ones though so I'm guessing he's heading to the rippers after his ride.
  • 1 0
 @fredhay: hahaha
  • 5 0
 450 bucks for an ugly aluminium stick with 2 pulley wheels on it. im not even taking this serious. neither should any of you. the end
  • 1 0
 @alexrosenberry: Holly S**t!!!
  • 1 0
 @MRwillP: Cooler will break as well....
  • 2 0
 @vapidoscar: weighing dollars with grams...that's un-american Smile
  • 2 0
 @jncrider: Fine. I'll go back to my archery and shooting days. A dollar bill weighs about 15 grains and it will still be 454 bills to make up a pound but we will call it 7000 grains.
  • 1 0
 @saturnine: stripping’ ain’t easy
  • 200 2
 imagine smashing that off on the first ride
  • 54 1
 And it's going to get smashed off because its fcuk!ng massive.
  • 11 3
 HAHAHAH FUCKME!
  • 6 1
 @fartymarty: No problem just stop in at your LBS and pick up the new color scheme
after you talk to your bank manager of course.
PT Barnum said it best a fool born every minute, and a fool and his money are soon parted.
2.5 watts Fuk its not even close to April.
  • 2 0
 Oooof!! Ouch. This plus an AXS Mech and you're out a quick thousand.
  • 2 0
 there will be some bike nerds smashing one off over the pictures...i guarantee it
  • 193 5
 F%$k off already with this crap.

All my years as a mechanic(12) and these things are always a pain in the ass.
Customers always expect more then the stupid donk pulleys provide.
Shifting goes out the window as well.

Stick with the stock set ups kids. Shimano and sram spend lots of money and time making things work properly.

The aftermarket pulley guys are all about bling and 2watts. They care less about the shift quality. Seriously 2 watts means f$%k all on mountain bikes
  • 54 0
 And you lose 10 w when they are full of dirt
  • 20 37
flag dthomp325 (Feb 17, 2021 at 10:36) (Below Threshold)
 I recently spent 8 weeks on a training program that added about 20watts to my ftp, that's about 2.5 watts a week. Let's say you train 8 hours a week, this device is essentially priced at $50/hour of equivalent training. I think that's actually not too bad if it does what it claims, but hard to validate that it actually saves you 2 watts and it may have other downsides.
  • 20 0
 Reduces drag, until you ride through some mud and for the rest of the ride your 400 dollars is out the window. I don't get these parts made of unicorn tears. All of my parts get bashed to shit, and the benefits saving grams provide is negligible when compared to the difference going to the gym makes.
  • 2 0
 sure. btw. is there any regular size replacement for xx1 pulley cage? That carbon arm is out of true on one of my bikes after eating up some branches.
  • 3 0
 If it really effects the shifting, you'll lose the time you saved on the drag by waiting for your bike to shift (those thenths of seconds per shift). For quick shifts for a sudden steep climb, slower shifting can even ruin your momentum up the hill.
  • 2 1
 Nah, they say that it has improved shifting efficiency, precise shifting and improved chain retention.... must be different cos its new
  • 17 2
 Would love to see Hambini do a review on this
  • 1 0
 Seriously I came here to ask about the whole 2 W thing - how much of a difference is that actually? 1%? 10%? WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
  • 5 0
 I'm pretty sure if I just quit alcohol and dessert I'd get more money and more power back.

As a shop pseudo-tech myself I'm with you, would want no part of dismantling a perfectly fine derailleur to put this on. No matter how simple the directions. Undoing bolts and springy doodads never go well together.

Best advice for getting more power? Clean your bike.
  • 6 0
 @MrCerulean: assuming the average enthusiast rider can put out around 200 watts for an hour, which is maybe a little generous, 1%

Take a bigger dump before your ride and thank me later. Wipe your ass with the money you saved.
  • 1 0
 @Mattin: Thank you for clarifying. I had a hunch that lack of pedaling and lack of momentum while climbing steep hills went hand-in-hand.
  • 1 0
 I have tried some larger aluminum pulley wheels. They were noisy and shifted poorly because there was too much play with the chain/pulley wheel. The SRAM composite ones are better in my opinion.
  • 3 0
 @KNS: @KNS: it's not really regular size, but way less clunky then the kollosus up here.. made by garbaruk (in Poland)
www.garbaruk.com/rear-derailleur-cage-pulleys-kit-for-sram-11-12-speed.html?category=25

bit bigger pulley wheels, too though.
  • 2 0
 @danimaniac: Dankeschön!
  • 1 0
 2 watts is the difference of 2 psi in a rear tire alone. You can often vary 10-15 watts (per tire) just by changing compound or tread pattern.
  • 102 1
 Any word on compatibility with NX?
  • 105 0
 I'll buy a beer for the first person who puts one of these on an SX Eagle derailleur
  • 25 0
 @anotherbikerguy: and I'll add another beer if it's on a frame with an idler pully and/or chain guide with a lower roller.
  • 2 1
 I don’t know but it would be funny to see $400 pullies on a NX RD!
  • 3 0
 If someone can sponsor the project I'll put it on my 11 year old sram x5 9 speed!
  • 1 0
 @OldDert:

Every time I look at my NX, I think to myself "Dang! That thing's kinda funny!"
  • 2 0
 Lmao why would you even ask this
  • 7 0
 @anotherbikerguy: Don’t tempt me, I’ve put AXS on a Karate Monkey before.
  • 79 4
 ebike compatible? Hahahahah!
  • 57 1
 i got 45 seconds longer range!! YAY!
  • 37 3
 @henryz4: Thats what she/he said!
  • 4 1
 @noplacelikeloam: Only comes in blue color!
  • 1 0
 Came here to ask same question - I need this to get the most out of my battery!
  • 12 13
 @noplacelikeloam: not even sure you can say He or She these days...
  • 2 0
 Kegels, HA!
  • 53 1
 Man and here I thought that the MTB world would set me free from the rampant snake oil of the audiophile industry but boy was I wrong. Pretty soon we going to start seeing diamond coated shift cables with crystals that will save 10 watts.
  • 6 0
 Why not rubin self lubricated mechanism like watches? That's something will definitely happen.. remember to apply for the patent man!
  • 11 0
 Cable risers to reduce harmonics/dielectric interference Wink
  • 10 0
 Frankly this stuff looks reasonable compared to the Axxios stickers. Honestly this industry thrives on loose purse strings. Your average rider has been lead to truly believe they need a four thousand dollar plastic frame with electronic shifting and specially formulated bespoke chain lube. Its fucking ridiculous.
  • 1 0
 @henryz4: except it actually works and it's an absolutely brilliant application in watches
  • 4 0
 @m1dg3t: only if they're directonal.
  • 3 0
 @m1dg3t: Haha yeah. To this day I still remember walking into a room at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest where they were pushing some speaker wire made of magnets. Their pitch was that the cables cost more than the entire room (speakers, electronics, room treatments, etc.) but the cable was going to make your $500 speakers sound better than $10000 ones without their cables. To this day it was one of the most surreal experiences I had in the "audiophile" world.
  • 3 0
 @gus6464: Yeah man, depending on the length of the run there isn't much difference between cables. Test after test has been done. As long as the cable is adequately sized, a Radioshack/Monoprice cable is just as good. Guys pushing fancy headphone cables really blows my mind.
  • 4 0
 I believe not long ago a few XC racers were putting stickers on their bikes to reduce bad frequencies or some such bullshit.
  • 1 0
 @m1dg3t: i see, we have an electrical in the house!
  • 2 0
 @henryz4: Rolhoff made a self lubricating drivetrain decades ago (little oil reservoir). It is so old I can't find a picture on the internet.
  • 2 0
 @timotheysski: that’s why I mentioned. It is a fancy way for shifter mechanism
  • 49 0
 I like how the bike industry is often 100% marketing and 0% science. You can't claim to save 2.5 watts without mentioning the conditions in which you tested your system. Like 2.5 watts of 250 watts (which is higher than most amateur cyclist can sustain for a long time) is only a 1% gain in efficiency. 2.5 watts of a 1000 watts is only 0.25 %. I would also guess that the faster you spin, the greater the gains. So what is the rpm tested? Since most mtbers have their highest power output during climbs at low rpm (60-70), are there measurable gains to be made (if so, how much and please specify a gain in % of efficiency)? I tried to find this information on the Kogel website (and please correct me if you find it) and the only info that I found is that they trusted the claims of some guy who measured 2.4 watts on a different cage-pulley system (still not mentioning the condition of the test). So basically, you sell a product, which you haven't tested, based on the tests of another guy who tested a different cage-pulley system... Good job marketing!
  • 6 0
 And all for the low, low price of only $400 (USD, presumably)!

I came here to comment on the 1% increase, but your point about not being able to even substantiate the claimed increase in efficiency is much better.
  • 3 0
 Has the claim of increased efficiency been validated? I would never buy this, but it seems like having the chain in contact with more teeth would negate any benefit of reduced drag by creating a lower articulation angle.
  • 5 0
 The product photo with the eagle cassette is a joke: Pulley wheel gets 14T while torque is still transmitted via 10T gear. Some pro roadie teams spec very long gear ratios to avoid using the small cogs under heavy power.
  • 54 7
 *Voice of reason to Yeti-owner thinking of this purchase* --- You'll still get dropped no matter how much you spend on your bike.
  • 14 0
 the 4 people who disliked this were yeti owners. Sensitive crowd!
  • 10 3
 @brycerivers2002: my SB130 was a hell of a bike, and the only bike I’ve ever sold because I didn’t want to be associated with other Yeti owners. Quite a bunch.
  • 15 0
 @DrPete: What’s more lame than buying a bike due to peer pressure? Selling one. You could’ve just learned to manual and avoided any dental association!
  • 8 0
 @brycerivers2002: I used to have a hat that said "No one cares you ride a Yeti". Imagine my repressed internal laughter when a customer rolls his SB-whatever into the shop because it won't shift. The entire time I'm pissing around making the bike work this guy is absolutely SWOONING. Telling me all about "best bike ever," and "The gnar, man. I can't believe I waited this long to get one." While I'm nearly having a comedic breakdown.

Or maybe he noticed the hat straight away and was just f*cking with me...
  • 1 0
 @emptybe-er: if only it were just the dentists.
  • 40 0
 wait wait wait i'm looking at this all wrong... if 1 usd bill weights .365 of a gram you ACTULLY save 135.635 extra grams... why are they not marketing this ?
  • 2 0
 well, you have to subtract 9 grams off that 135 the because even at $399 they somehow couldn't make it lighter than the cage you're replacing.
  • 14 0
 Honestly surprised nobody has clarified that you could just use a larger amount bill at the same weight. Maybe, just maybe PB'ers have figured out humor.
  • 5 1
 i already have $0. a negative account balance doesn't subtract weight incrementally.
  • 24 0
 @saturnine:
1. Spend money you don't have
2. Wallet is now lighter than air
3. ????
4. Fly
  • 3 0
 No. The people that buy this won't be walking around with 399 singles, they'll have four Benjamins and tell the shop to keep the change.
  • 1 0
 @Negetiv: f*cking genius
  • 1 0
 @Negetiv: Username checks out
  • 32 0
 I have always wanted a pair of silicon nitride ceramic balls
  • 2 0
 "Oh my God, those balls are as smooth as eggs!"
  • 26 0
 When jockey wheels start pushing towards the size of your single ring, run, don’t walk, run away.
  • 42 0
 If you are running a 14t front ring you should probably just go back to hiking
  • 7 1
 @Tr011: Some dj bikes use 23t ring, not far off the 19t of this haha
  • 8 0
 @Joebohobo: trials bikes often run an 18t up front and Middleburn even made a 16t sprocket at one point! Razz
  • 1 0
 It makes the huge cassette look less goofy
  • 1 0
 @baulz: the cassettes are fully functional though, and not just for bling
  • 1 0
 why not ride away? faster and more efficiently than before
  • 3 0
 The instant I saw the top picture I had such a strong familiar feeling I'd seen it before. It took me the time to get to your comment to remember. The pulleys look like the size of the water wheel type things that you get in the marble run I had 35b years ago, ah fun times...
  • 2 0
 @Joebohobo: I ran a 25/14 setup on my single speed and when the bike flexed the chain would slap off the stay louder then any derailleur setup. Was losing my mind for a couple weeks trying to figure out how my normally dead silent rigid SS bike would occasionally turn into a tin can full of rocks...
  • 20 1
 Might be better for $/watt saved to hire someone to lube and clean your chain before every ride
  • 13 0
 You know what else saves you 2.5 watts? A front derailleur. 12-speed drivetrains require cross-chaining at odd angles, especially at the bottom end of the gear range. www.velonews.com/gear/gear-issue-friction-differences-between-1x-and-2x-drivetrains
  • 8 0
 Can I upvote and downvote a comment?
  • 12 0
 Probably get made fun of for this, but a few science facts (this is Pinkbike where 'science' doesn't require one to 'show their working'... so just trust me). If you're climbing up a 10% grade at 8mph (~13kmh) you're effectively gaining 0.36m of elevation every second. IF per chance you had an additional 2.5watts of power to make this climb with (ie: your drivetrain is 2.5 watts more efficient... or you lubed your chain) you would be able to carry (approximately) an additional 700grams AT THE SAME SPEED with NO additional exertion. I'm not debating the merits of this product, I'm simply pointing out that folks tend to have a clear grasp of how a component's weight effects performance, but very little idea of how component efficiency does! MORAL: If you think this product is ridiculous take a LONG look in the mirror before saying a component is heavy/light.
  • 5 0
 I wonder what time difference an extra 2.5watts would have made on the bottom pedal section of the Lousa DH track?
  • 3 0
 @nzandyb That's an interesting way to put it.
  • 2 0
 @SonofBovril: When someone like Minaar can smash out well over 1000 watts he's pushing DH tires that suck up over 100 watts (at those speeds) drivetrain and suspension taking up probably another 100 watts... But ALL the rest is lost on Aero. At those kinds of DH speeds just the brand/model of helmet you wear could make 10 watts difference, that's comparing current lids (not even hypothetical 'aero' dh lids). So what time difference would it make? I'm guesstimating around 0.02 seconds or something like that. But take that same 2.5 watts accumulated over an hour and a half, apply it to Nino at the 2012 Olympics (XC) and suddenly he might have beaten Kulhavy.
  • 1 0
 @nzandyb: If those numbers are true, I'm impressed by your knowledge of drag sources and their magnitude.
  • 2 0
 @cedrico: I work in the industry with these sort of numbers, still ballparking for illustrative purposes though.
  • 10 0
 Just bought this along with a full axs derailleur setup and I smashed it on a rock on the very first ride. Now what?

Kidding. I actually had that as a dream. Or was it a nightmare?
  • 12 0
 This feels like it should be like $150 max.
  • 4 6
 things cost what people are willing to pay, not what you feel it should cost.
  • 1 0
 @conoat: I suppose, but this is a new product and they don't know what people are willing to pay. From the reaction of this page, people aren't willing to drop $400 on it.
  • 1 1
 @HB208: new products are often more expensive for that reason. they might only need 50 people to buy one or a few pro teams to buy in.
  • 2 0
 @saturnine: It's not really a "new" product though. They didn't go out an invent a new drug. It's a better mousetrap for 10 times the cost.
  • 2 0
 I’d be interested to see how this compares in a test against the 20$ made in China version soon to be released (and available in a wider variety of colors).
  • 1 0
 @conoat: yeah and people are also f*cking idiots so there's that, too
  • 1 1
 @HB208: yeah, cuz the obvious market here is for the people that spend all day on PB commenting how stupid shit is that they cannot afford. lol
  • 2 0
 @conoat: I'm pretty sure Pinkbikers that spend too much on bikes is exactly their target market. If not, what is?
  • 1 0
 @conoat: I can absolutely afford this. I could even afford the much pricer Ceramic Speed one. But I woi't because I'm not a moron easily dupped by outlandish claims of saving watts that will never be realized because 4 grains of f*cking sand got into the pulley bearing.
  • 2 0
 @HB208: weekend warrior dentists. I have had the fortune to count tons of them as clients. the good ones are magical. the amount of money that you can possibly throw at a bike is a rounding error to them. so all you have to do is tell them it's available, is cool as f*ck looking and will make a very small difference and they are in.

that's the market. Once you get those guys on board, the people one tier down in wealth start seeing it on their club rides and start wanting it. it's advertisement via conspicuous consumption. Capitalism is f*cking badass.
  • 9 1
 Save 2 watts...like that matters at any level...the irony is you save 2 watts in drivetrain friction but add more overall mass in a longer steel chain and additionally more unsprung mass making other areas inefficient instead. $400 could get you a gym membership for a year in some places, you 'd have a lot more than 2 watts to gain then.
  • 2 0
 Not defending the product, even this avid XC racer thinks it’s nuts, but it does specifically state no changes in chain length are necessary, and the weight “penalty” is 9 grams total.
  • 11 0
 Since it’s DH week, will they be offered in 7 speed?
  • 10 0
 If Levy put this on a high pivot bike, would he stop complaining about marginal watt loss?
  • 8 0
 I'm a dentist, and I'm going to buy this as a joke. I just want to reinforce the stereotype. It'll look cool on my druid...lol Wink
  • 1 0
 I actually thought about it going on my Druid as well. Would stop all that massive power loss Levy keeps whining about.
  • 5 0
 You know what else saves you 2.5 watts? A front derailleur. 12 speed drivetrains require cross-chaining at odd angles, especially at the bottom end of the gear range. www.velonews.com/gear/gear-issue-friction-differences-between-1x-and-2x-drivetrains
  • 1 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT Good link. Thanks Had some interesting info in there.
  • 4 0
 People, people, people! You are looking at this all wrong! They look massive now but when the new standard of 200mm super duper boost is adopted to spin our new industry standard 53" penny farthing wheels they will look tiny! $399 to future proof my drivetrain? Sign me up!
  • 7 0
 Roadies of the mtb world unite!!
  • 3 0
 If they marketed only for the bling, I would just laught off. But this is unicorn piss wattage. There is no way in hell or heaven two tensioning pulleys could draw more than 1w, especially with bearings and low as aspargus tension. Don't even get me started on ceramic bearings.
  • 3 0
 "So, why go supersize? Well, the theory is that larger pulley wheels mean the chain has to articulate less therefore reducing unwanted drag. Larger jockey wheels also have a lower rotational speed at the same chain speed, which in turn means less drag in the bearings."

This smells a lot like bullshit to me.
All I see is a drivetrain that is probably gonna shift crap. And you will have to add a couple of links to the chain that totally won't increase chain slap and other chain issues.
  • 5 0
 i cant think of anything less imaginative to try to make style points money than jockey wheels.
  • 1 5
flag radrider (Feb 17, 2021 at 11:34) (Below Threshold)
 Can you think of anything more imaginative to reduce drag in drivetrain by 2.5watts?
  • 3 1
 @radrider: lol found the fanboy lmao.

Modern drivetrains are incredibly efficient already. If you are looking for an edge, the drivetrain aint it. To each their own, i suppose.
  • 1 6
flag radrider (Feb 17, 2021 at 13:22) (Below Threshold)
 @cesarv: I found all the poor fatties
  • 3 0
 @radrider: Yes, a floating chainring. Oversized pulleys are actually not a watt saver, they're are just overpriced garbage for weak-wannabe-fast riders.
  • 1 1
 @dick-pound: Floating chainring sounds awesome, is it a thing? How wouldnt the size of a pulley on a drivetrain have an effect on efficiency? The faster the chain moves the more it will have an effect, both because of less rotation between links, and because there is more of a loss in inertia from the quicker transition through the radius's of the pulleys.
  • 2 0
 @radrider: my drivetrain is Zero watts of drag.



I took the chain off and #ONLYRIDEPARK
  • 1 0
 @radrider: There is zero inertia loss from a spinning chain as it passes through the jockey wheels. the chain remains at a constant speed. I mean, how would that even work? it's mechanically connected to the rest of the chain! it's physically impossible for any one part of the chain to have more velocity than any other part of the chain.
  • 1 3
 @conoat: spin your cranks..the chain is in a state of inertia..what exactly do you think is creating the drag in a drivetrain? ever spun a crank with a chainguide? notice the extra drag from that extra jockey wheel and the tight radius the chain must bend through...faster the cadence, bigger loss of inertia through jockey wheel size..

There is also loss from the small rotation between links and the friction from that..
  • 3 0
 @radrider: Your assumption is missing torque which is completely absent in the RD pulley so the friction between links is minimal at best.
Just by using a clutch mechanism in the RD you're losing more than 2.5W, these OSP trend is another BS invention that brings no advantages and several disadvantages.
  • 6 0
 Heavier and more expensive? I'll take two.
  • 6 0
 This is one way for the XC crowd to do their kogels...
  • 6 0
 I'm sure everyone in the comments will be nice and intended buyers lol
  • 9 5
 I for one am always intrigued by seeing the latest niche high-end product..No I can't afford it...But yes I can appreciate the craftsmanship and understand the price tag.
  • 7 1
 I do not want to be friends with anyone who buys this..
  • 6 0
 I too look forward to instantly destroying this 400 dollar part.
  • 4 0
 Why would Kogel pay Pinkbike to feature this when they know the comments section is going to be 90% s**t talk? Waste of marketing money...
  • 2 0
 90% would be actually positive, I'd say it's closer to 99.9%
  • 2 0
 It was $1.50 well spent.
  • 6 0
 I'm not convinced the pink one actually has less drag.
  • 1 0
 Boom, I laughed.
  • 4 0
 Wow - it looks like something AC would have made in the early 90's - oh damn, their HTML 1.0 site is still up:

www.adventurecomponents.com
  • 2 0
 The upfront cost might be steep... but that 2.5 watt savings will be there on EVERY ride! After a few hundred miles of pedaling in a nice, sanitized, danger-free laboratory like environment that $399 will be long forgotten and recovered... XD
  • 2 0
 hmmmm.....they make big claims, but do not document the testing done to derive the claims......so, did they: a) just not include the data and a brief on their test methods in their promo's, or b) JUST MADE UP THEIR CLAIMS?

If I had to guess, I'd guess b)......but if you religiously clean & lube your drivetrain, I would expect you'll be saving some watts, and some $$......but, full disclosure, I didn't do any testing to back up with these claimsSmile
  • 6 1
 I still don't even understand why thesis $400
  • 3 9
flag radrider (Feb 17, 2021 at 9:08) (Below Threshold)
 What do you think it should cost?
  • 2 1
 Especially when you can buy oversized ceramic jockey wheels for $150 and get 85% of the benefit of this thing.
  • 7 0
 @radrider: I don't know what it should cost, but it shouldn't cost 10% of an entire mountain bike. Hell, it shouldn't cost 4% of a $10k dentist build. It's literally not even a full derailleur. It's just the cage.
  • 3 9
flag radrider (Feb 17, 2021 at 10:07) (Below Threshold)
 @rodponton: Where else are you going to improve the efficiency of a maxed out bike? What do you think it costs to produce such a highly precision cnc'd piece of kit? Who else is making a long arm hanger that competes with this quality? Do you compare a Rolex to a a Timex?
  • 6 3
 @radrider: a more apt comparison would be swapping out the hands of a rolex for bigger ones. in red.
  • 2 3
 @saturnine: I guess Taiwan mass production is the same as boutique low production high precision cnc manufacturing in USA..
may as well just buy chinese and forget all your problems.
  • 6 2
 @radrider: you can cnc whatever the hell you want. doesn't make it useful or worth it. country of origin isn't necessarily relevant to this discussion as for all intents and purposes, the high end part IS the mass-produced part. mass-production ≠ low-end and the inverse is also true.
  • 2 5
 @saturnine: So you are assuming it is cnc'd for fun? with out regards to a precise balance of ridigity/strength/weight? You are also assuming that the stock stamped aluminum/carbon hybrid is better? And because it is mass produced?
Lots of interesting assumptions.
  • 5 1
 @radrider: i'm doubting claims,ROI and it's usefulness. it could be the highest quality part in the world with the tightest tolerances on any object ever produced by human hands and it might net you a thousandth of a second in a lab setting.
  • 2 5
 @saturnine: So you are claiming they are lying about a 2.5watt increase? Because 2.5watts is certainly measurable and would equate to a noticeable improvement in race times at about 0.5-0.8% for top level pro's.

Nearly 1% efficiency improvement from redesigned jockey wheels and pulley arm seems interesting and worth some amount of money fo the right people..if claims are accurate and if precisions manufacturing required to gain those improvements, it has a high value.
  • 3 1
 @saturnine: you can doubt it all you want but the data behind oversized ceramic jockey wheels is well known and has been common in the road world for a long time now. For the average rider, there is no ROI except personal satisfaction... for a pro, saving 2.5w is pretty huge, over the course of a race that could easily be the difference between winning and coming in third.
  • 3 2
 @radrider: that's a lot of ifs. claims are just that - claims. it's on them to prove. they add 9 grams to the system but who's to say that adding your own lighter alloy ceramic-bearing jockey wheels to lighten the existing derailleur wouldn't improve your watts?

additionally, what shifting product doesn't claim to "provide maximum strength and stiffness, improved shifting efficiency"?

@badbadleroybrown: aero helmets are common in road cycling. will they have any effect on the trail? if we're talking about equipment for pros then price doesn't even matter. they'll get it for free and their teams will verify the claims. for you and me, there is no gain.
  • 5 1
 @saturnine: That's a nice false equivalency... power loss in a drivetrain is a constant, irrespective or aerodynamics.

If you're putting out 400 watts and losing 5% in your drivetrain, why wouldn't you want to reduce that to 4% or 3% if it's possible? If this is out of your budget or just doesn't interest you, cool... don't buy it. But to pretend the claims are dubious when they're well know to be factually sound just because you don't personally see a value in it is stupid. This isn't a mass market item meant for every rider, and the cost reflects that low volume production and sales. If you're a racer who's looking for every advantage, then looking to eliminate drivetrain losses is absolutely a viable upgrade.
  • 1 2
 @radrider: I would say someone who is THAT competitive can probably change their training regimen and diet and get way more performance out of their riding than buying a gaudy overpriced piece of metal. Or spend more time on skills.
The most bang for one's buck out of this $400 part is going to be a placebo effect.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Pinkbike announcements about parts like this aren't intended for pro teams though, are they? They're intended for the PB audience, for whom this part is irrelevant and a senseless expense.
  • 3 0
 Thank god you aren't here to decide what is and isn't a relevant pinkbike article...You are a boring person
  • 1 0
 @rodponton: not every racer is signed to a pro team... and pinkbikes audience includes plenty of pros.
  • 3 1
 @rodponton: I know this is hard to wrap your head around but... hold on tight... you can actually do both, optimize your training AND take advantage of products that reduce drivetrain power loss. It's not one or the other, and this is a product meant for those who are already doing everything else as well. Crazy, right?
  • 1 0
 perhaps you should write a......thesis on it?
  • 1 0
 @muddley1: I have them on my bike. They require no special cage. No adjustment to chain. I replaced worn oem sram ones with these. More open space for dirt to escape. Still spinning smooth after 5k miles. No complaints.
  • 1 0
 Thank god you're here to determine who is boring given what they say on a PB comment log. Don't know what we would do without that invaluable service.
  • 2 1
 @radrider: why are you propping up CNC as some revolutionary, peerless, precision manufacturing method? You can CNC something to low precision and yet it's still CNC. This is a derailleur cage. You don't need f*cking aerospace-grade precision CNC on your f*cking mtb derailleur cage that is going to get bent, clogged with dirt, or deal with any number of ways a RD can blow up. Claiming otherwise makes you look like a clown. And talking down to people as if aerospace precision is necessary for your GD derailleur cage makes you look like a mean clown.
  • 1 2
 @badbadleroybrown: stop talking out your ass. Power loss in a mtb drivetrain is definitely NOT constant. Simply changing gears would change the friction losses as the chain runs at different angles across the chainring and casseette. Dirt and mud collect while you're riding. Chain lubricant wears off as you ride...literally none of that would make for a constant power loss.
  • 3 1
 @rip8569: actually, yes you do when you're racing for money and every second and every watt matters.

Really can't figure out why it's so hard for so many of y'all to understand this isn't an "everyman" product meant to be slapped onto your clapped out GX derailleur. This is a halo piece, something for the bike that's already got feathery carbon hoops on ceramic bearings, ceramic bottom bracket, one piece carbon cockpit, every unnecessary chain link removed, carbon cranks with power meter, carbon railed saddle, and every other gram saving or efficiency improving upgrade you can find, that's washed and tuned after every ride and runs a number plate on weekends.

What's makes someone look like a "mean clown" is angrily pretending that there's serious racers lining up with bent cages and derailleurs clogged with dirt or that there's no market for this type of product. It's a precision machined, high quality, low volume product with a very niche market and that's why it's so costly... not my cup of tea, especially when you get a good deal of the benefit from just replacing the jockey wheels in the stock cage for 1/3 the cost, but for some this is definitely one more advantage to add to their toolbox.
  • 1 1
 @rip8569: I never said power loss remains constant... I said power loss is a constant, meaning you will always be losing some degree of power from drivetrain inefficiencies. If you can remove some portion of that loss, then you've gained free watts above what you would otherwise have... you can do this through ceramic bottom brackets, oversized pullies, specialty prepped chains, etc. All the factors you mention have no bearing... if you're losing 5 watts in a specific gear with a specific amount of lubricant loss and mud build up you'll lose LESS than 5 watts with those same variables and drivetrain upgrades like this, that's the f*cking point. If something is costing you watts and you can lower that cost, you do it... that's racing. I know it's super complicated but try and wrap your mind around the fact that you're beat up, rarely maintained bike isn't a representation of a race bike.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: So your argument essentially boils down to removing inefficiency, which contrary to your semantically-based assessment I did interpret correctly, but you just don't seem to get that this won't be removing any inefficiencies once it's clogged with dirt which SHOCKING AS IT MAY SEEM, can build-up on even pristine race bikes during the race. It's a f*cking useless product meant to make people who drool over CNC jewelry open their wallets. If it was really down to gaining every minute advantage they could get, why CNC machine it? Why not make it lighter? Out of carbon? They didn't, they made it pretty CNC so elitest dickheads on Yetis can flex on Instagram. lmfao
  • 1 1
 @rip8569: incorrect again... your failure to comprehend basic English doesn't make me incorrect, semantically or otherwise. Drivetrain power loss from inefficiency is a constant in every drivetrain. Adding additional variables doesn't negate the reality that power loss in a specific configuration remains constant and can be improved by oversized jockey wheels. Your baseless assumption of multiple variables and a presumptive conclusion based on no analysis doesn't change reality.
  • 2 2
 @rip8569: you are the one who is calling people clowns for appreciating high quality manufacturing, a*shole. Go complain about being poor and boring somewhere else.
  • 2 1
 @rip8569: Lol your argument essentially boils down to,"it can get dirt so its useless"

Why not make it out of carbon? Because carbon has its advantages and disadvantages.. In this case cnc'd 7k series aluminum is improving the rigidity compared to the flimsy carbon/stamped aluminum hybrids...at a small weight gain. adding the same weight in carbon wont necessarily bring the rigidity of a carbon part to that of an expertly cnc'd part, and if so the bulk required to match it may be ridiculous.

I'm guessing, deep down, you love this stuff, but deeply hate that you can't afford it..
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: lmfao you are incorrect again both semantically and technically. Your baseless ASSumption is that when you get mud in your drivetrain you DON'T lose efficiency...LMFAOOO clown
  • 1 1
 @rip8569: no dumbass... the well documented fact is that irrespective of other variables, an efficiency improvement still results in improved efficiency. A muddy drivetrain that started out more efficient is still more efficient than one that started out less efficiency.

It's your baseless assumption that mud negates the benefit.

Enjoy the red nose and giant shoes, they look great on you.
  • 1 2
 @radrider: my dude you're hilariously off-base. Plenty of high-priced parts on my bike like eeWings and Onyx hubs. But unlike this overpriced gimmick that literally does nothing that you suckers are struggling to rationalize, those pieces actually do improve functionality. lmfao
  • 1 2
 @badbadleroybrown: LMFAO dude...not it doesn't. And at this point you have offered nothing more than I have to support your claim other than your laughable condescension.
  • 1 0
 @rip8569: Yes, it does... drivetrain efficiency loss is a cumulative of all variables. Each additional inefficiency adds a degree of loss, removing any variable lowers the cumulative loss.

Honk, honk... Clown.
  • 3 0
 Any gains will be immediately lost as soon as you get mud all over it. Might work in road world but struggling to see the benefit offroad.
  • 2 3
 not everyone is from the big Mud Island
  • 1 0
 A couple of questions
. If the larger jockey wheels save watt's, how many watts are being wasted if you have a 1X and you use your 10th or in some cases a 9th, and in a 2X your 11th? Should you never go lower than the 12th on your rear cassette since their lowest tooth count for the jockey wheels is a 12 tooth?
Since these jockey wheels use ball bearings instead of bushings, according to Habmini for maximum efficiency racers remove the dust shields and grease, and replace with a lightweight oil. Not a good idea on dusty trails.
  • 1 0
 Yes, those small cogs are relatively inefficient. However, pedaling efficiency probably isn’t your biggest concern at those speeds.
  • 2 0
 I saved $398 by shaving my stubble with a dollar shaver. Same mass savings, but my mod reduced my face's coefficient of drag too. I haven't calculated my watt savings on that bonus yet, but I'm optimistic.
  • 1 0
 Good business plan. Charge a ton of money for a product that barely sells. But if you get only a handful of sales in a month, you have paid your cost of living, have done almost no work and can spend your time doing other revenue-generating activities. Or nothing.
  • 1 0
 I'm still surprised at the proliferation of this kind of content on Pinkbike. Presenting a product, yes, but starting to denigrate it because of its price, even excessive, is not doing the community a service. Everyone spends their money as they want.
  • 1 0
 Let's do the math... Extra weight from beefy cage + extra weight from larger wheels + extra weight from extra chain links + extra drag from over size wheels & extra links = loss of wattage, not a savings

Plus I think I would look cooler gluing dollar bills all over my frame
  • 1 0
 The large wheels reduce drag, and it has already been stated in the article that the weight gain is 9 grams. You don’t need to add chain links.
  • 1 0
 Bike prices and parts prices are starting to take the p1ss. I get folks need to recoup their costs, make a profit in a niche market etc. but just, wow. I worked out the other day that if I was to service my bike each year, front and rear shocks, seatpost, change the chain, cassette * 2 and all that jazz it would cost more than my car does to service!
  • 1 0
 Take your car on a rally stage and see how that bill changes.
  • 1 0
 @radrider: No. It's not designed to do that. But then I doubt my bike would fair too well (or me for that matter) if it was towed along a motorway for a couple of hours at the cars full tilt.

I could take it on a tarmac rally stage... It'd be bloody good at that!
  • 3 1
 2.5watts for $400, not even 25watts would be worth that price, plus it looks like something you'd see on a circus bike that a clown would ride.
  • 4 2
 not even 25 watts would be worth that price? Do you even know what you are talking about??? a 25watt increase in efficiency would make a tour de france rider about 8% faster than anyone else..

2.5 watts is an increase of nearly 1% efficiency for high output riders.
  • 1 0
 @radrider: It's a claimed 2.5 watts, probably not even close. Oversized pulley's not new to the Tour either, the 2.5w comes when you're pushing 250w.
  • 4 1
 I just wish SRAM sold full (inner & outer) replacement cages... at a reasonable price.
  • 2 0
 This is the only reason I see to buy this. Revive an AXS RD since sram doesn’t sell the replacement oem cages. Sucks that you’d have to spend $400 to do it though.
  • 2 0
 Hell NO! And by that, I will probably be revisiting this in a year or so and will likely buy it because I like pretty things. (I am my own worst enemy and I know it)
  • 2 0
 $400 is enough to pay for a gym membership for a year, but why work to actually get faster when you can spend the same amount to save .3% of your power output?
  • 3 0
 This is beyond insane, next level retardation. machining cost is less than 20€, plus 2 bearings. What a joke.
  • 2 0
 Two watts would shave about 10 seconds on a 40km road time trial. It would probably save me more time in an XC race because I spent all of my beer money on oversized pulley.
  • 3 1
 Serious stuff, they're not playing games. All other drivetrain manufacturers will be in the shadow of the Kolossos.
  • 3 0
 Sure, if you have the money of a Persian prince
  • 3 0
 Hold on my popcorn is still popping!
  • 3 0
 I could buy a lot of beer with $399.
  • 1 0
 Wow. That would make an "upgraded" sram xx1 the same cost a rockshox zeb. I will just wait for sram to do the same thing next year and save the money.
  • 3 0
 Pick a pully size, be a d*%k about it...
  • 2 0
 What makes Kogel thinks that they know more than SRAM or any other OEM manufacturers?
  • 1 0
 it's not necessarily about knowing more or less and more about cost, return on investment, practicality and durability. there's really no reason to change all of your manufacturing processes and multiply your costs while also making your product more expensive for nominal gains. a small company can focus on one component and make small numbers but sram/shimano would have to multiply that my thousands/millions and change pulley and cage sizes across their lines to bring costs inline
  • 1 0
 YEa! The nerve! I mean, just like.....who does Carroll Shelby think he is, knowing more than Ford!
  • 1 0
 this. this "idea" comes back around every 3-5y like clockwork in the roadie world. This is pretty low tech - if it made any sense Shimano, SRAM, Campy would have been doing this for like 20y now
  • 2 0
 For the XC weenie periodontist who also bought the $200 chain lube and tool to align hbars.
  • 2 0
 It's nice to know the extra 2.5W I am spending are saving me 400 dollars in this. Makes my efforts feel more valuable.
  • 3 0
 Great, I might pick one up for my single speed tensioner
  • 1 0
 Just when I was thinking to myself, "if only I would save myself 2.5 watts of energy, I'd be good", kogal goes and drops this bombshell, kogal you sneaky f*cks!!
  • 1 0
 Brillliant! Just combine it with a high pivot point bike with a pulley, to bring the drag back to a normal bike and drivetrain level!
  • 1 0
 2.5 Watts... Also known as - no difference at all. I guess they wouldn't make it however if it wouldn't sell. The dentists will be pleased.
  • 1 0
 If I'm going to spend $400 dollars on an aftermarket pulley, I'd at least expect its looks to stand out from the crowd. hehe
  • 2 0
 Long term review in by the Wednesday Night Race Crew
  • 2 0
 Yeah well, I'll save 399$ for 2.5 watts, thank you.
  • 2 0
 Reduce the drag from your wallet
  • 1 0
 A beer belly saves about 6 watts at 45km/h. I go and invest my 399$ in this ????
  • 2 1
 ii'll say the same thing i always say when someone mentions saving weight by taking a dump - you can do both things and end up with a net gain
  • 1 0
 Do they have a lifetime crash replacement policy? If not I will wait for the WeAreOne carbon cage.
  • 2 0
 There's a market for everything... i am sure some will enjoy it!
  • 1 0
 Wow, I can strengthen my pelvic floor and save 2.5 watts by doing Kogels? No brainer...
  • 1 0
 Saves 2.5 watts at what power output? A 400w sprint? That’s only 0.6% of the sprint. Look past the marketing lingo
  • 1 0
 its so odd looking its cool. 400$ bucks is insane though. actually curious to know if you'd feel a difference.
  • 1 0
 My balls add 6 watts so this $399 I'm about to spend will hopefully be a slight difference.
  • 1 0
 Would buy it just to avoid having to pick lubebogeys out of derailleur pulley wheels.
  • 2 0
 Call me when they start making 32t pulleys.
  • 2 0
 If the colours match Hope products the Brits will be all over it.
  • 2 0
 Rocks love shiny (expensive) objects!
  • 1 0
 Just approach your friend working with CNC and do something similar and you got a less expensive product
  • 2 0
 Unbelievable I shit in the woods and saved 3 watts.
  • 2 0
 It's like Truck Nuts for bikes.
  • 1 0
 Wow, 400$, and not narrow wide. For that kind of money, I expected it to be space equipment grade.
  • 1 0
 Don't they know that the real pinkbike money is in giant idler pullies for everyone's new high-pivot suspension?
  • 1 0
 Can't wait to see this exclusively on 65 year old's bikes who just need to blow retirement money
  • 1 0
 So that's what...like, half a filling and a fluoride treatment? Sounds like a bargain to me!
  • 1 0
 Who gives a flying uck about the size of the pulleys / watts.. I'm here for the retina burning bitchin' colors..!
  • 2 0
 2.5 watts for the price of your dignity
  • 1 0
 Is it just me or is this basically a garbaruk cage, just 30 grams heavier and about $280 more expensive?
  • 1 0
 There are things that I will never buy even I win the lotto grand price twice! This is one of those.
  • 2 0
 Let me ask Hambini about that.
  • 1 0
 When you spend 5 seconds reading the headline of the article but 15 minutes in the comments. Not disappointed..
  • 2 0
 Kegel exercise makes more sense then Kogel jockey wheels in mountainbiking
  • 1 0
 Imagine how many watts you could gain from $399 of sessions with a personal trainer. More than 2.5 I'd bet!
  • 1 0
 Could this offset the drag from the idler pulley on an HSP bike? Asking for a friend...
  • 2 1
 oh eff yes. I've been waiting for these to hit the MTB world.
  • 1 0
 why not saving 399$ for 2,5W?
  • 1 0
 Those are the kind of gains you can't feel!
  • 1 0
 How long this thing stay on a trailbike?
  • 2 0
 haters gonna hate
  • 3 0
 The 90’s called...
  • 1 0
 Always wanted silicon nitride ceramic balls
  • 1 0
 Looks like a trail bike to me...

youtu.be/ZkQXv9tTRGc
  • 1 0
 2.5 watts is about 0.003 horsepower.
  • 2 0
 A fool and his money...
  • 1 0
 Aero drag penalty is probably more than 3 watts
  • 2 1
 I'm just glad they didn't go with "Kogel Kolossos Kage."
  • 1 0
 shut up and take my money
  • 1 0
 what is it with pinkbike taking articles or videos from the front page?
  • 2 1
 hey, .00001 seconds is .00001 seconds. you can't argue with results
  • 1 0
 ANYTHING TO GET RID OF HORRIBLE NARROW-WIDE DERAILLEUR PULLEY COGS!
  • 2 5
 Oversized pulleys are proven to actually have no benefit. In concept it might make sense but in reality it just doesn't work. Furthermore, the big lower pulley for MTB is the worst idea ever, as it creates a lot of inertia which will make your clutch really struggle to keep the chain from slapping or falling. Even if the the claimed benefits of 2.5w saving were true, it's just peanuts compared to the power anybody racing is actually putting. What a brainfart!!
  • 3 2
 you are talking out of your ass man.

Increased INTERTIA???
  • 1 0
 @radrider: It actually does, it increases the mass in the biggest leverage point of the RD.
It does not happen while climbing when the chain is completely tight but when descending, which is when you're using the highest 4 cogs cogs in the cassette. At that point the amount of chain wrapped around the lower pulley is significantly more than with a 12-14t pulley and it freaking sucks.
Nothing against people who like to throw money away and there's a reason why even a marketing driven brand like Sram is not putting s**t like this to the market.
  • 1 0
 @dick-pound: talking from experience?
  • 1 0
 @radrider: Testing, experience and most importantly, physics.
  • 1 1
 @dick-pound: so, out of your ass.
  • 2 0
 @radrider: Right, out of my ass your brain came out! Cheers mate!
  • 1 0
 Of course this company is based out of TX.
  • 1 0
 Shave your legs will reduce the drag, at no cost.
  • 1 0
 Take my money and my stupidity!
  • 1 0
 new standard in the bike industry

"Podium grade"

yeah
  • 1 0
 Don't hate on the 29" cog, like you did with the wheel.
  • 1 0
 -2.5w in lab conditions maybe.
Controlled humidity, no dust and so on Big Grin
  • 1 0
 I have some fools money, so I'm thinking about buying.
  • 1 0
 silicon nitride ceramic balls
  • 1 0
 So now we’re mulletting the rear mech?

Righto.
  • 1 0
 The interesting thing is that not much top XC racers use that
  • 1 0
 same could be said about 29" wheels at one time..
  • 1 0
 Oh well, another company for the average rider to just ignore.
  • 1 0
 9 grams more AND the weight of the extra chain links ...
  • 1 0
 Everything's bigger in Texas
  • 1 0
 What a deal! I’m gonna rail turns so much harder!
  • 1 0
 I hear the faint sound of the unnecessary drilling of teeth already...
  • 1 0
 This cage will compliment my EE WING cranks splendidly!!$$$$$
  • 1 0
 I NEED this for my fat bike!
  • 1 0
 Better that they are made of GOLD
  • 1 0
 4 out of 5 dentists recommend oversized jockey wheels.
  • 1 0
 just put a shimano tourney if you like big pulleys and save 380 bucks
  • 1 0
 I’ll pay $399 so you can talk $hit about my bike.
  • 1 0
 Two watts mate
  • 1 0
 You had me at gold.
  • 1 1
 Hold my wallet!!

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