Millyard's Hyper Ride Shock Returns

May 19, 2020 at 4:56
by James Smurthwaite  
Views: 15,803    Faves: 8    Comments: 1


Additional reporting: Si Paton

The father and son team of Allen and Stephen Millyard have been designing unique bikes and parts since the mid-2000s that have never failed to spark intrigue in bike nerds like us. Allen originally built a bike with a Ducatti-inspired trellis design frame and an 8 speed gearbox for his son to race on at the British Downhill Series and that bike was soon followed by an even wilder version with single-sided stays. By all accounts, it rode entirely different to the bikes of the day and was heaped with praise by Dirt mag's Steve Jones among others. Stephen Millyard showed that the hype translated to the race clock as well as he was podiuming in the amateur classes at the British national series despite only having 120mm of travel.

There was more to it than the frame and the gearbox though as at the heart of both of those bikes there was also a custom shock built called the Hyper Ride.

The first generation Hyper Ride nestled in the Millyard 001.
The first generation Hyper Ride nestled in the Millyard 001.

Details were always pretty thin on the ground for the Hyper Ride shock but it was based on oleo struts that are used in tank suspension and plane landing gear but adapted for a much lighter application in mountain bikes. It was originally nitrogen charged but that was apparently later changed to argon as it was simpler, cheaper and easier to transport. We later saw Nito Shox's take on the same lines but like Millyard's first attempt at replacing traditional mountain bike dampers, this seemed to fall into obscurity for reasons not related to its performance

Eurobike 2015
We first saw Nitro Shox take on the idea at Eurobike in 2015

Now Stephen and Allen have returned to the shock and created a second prototype although this time it's not for a downhill bike but for Stephen's Transition Sentinel.


Like the original Millyard shock, we can see there is very little external adjustment aside from a charging port. To set up the shock all you do is set the correct pressure for the rider weight using a portable bottle (up to a maximum of 4,200 psi!) and the shock is apparently good to go with no washers, shims, valves or adjustments. The original shock used to get so hot that a 'do not touch' sticker had to be added, which obviously affects the oil viscosity and gas pressure, so cooling fins have also been added to this latest design.


The story gets even wilder when you get into the construction of it. Stephen Millyard says: "The project began in the garden shed where we were able to find old vehicle parts, that would later form the key components of Hyper Ride 2. A phosphor bronze bush forged from a 1950s BSA Gold Star valve guide serves as the bottom pivot and the main strut is a reengineered Land Rover steering damper. The main body was turned from a solid block of aluminium left over from the 2006 Mk1 Millyard downhill race bike using a 1974 Colchester Lathe and finished on a 1950 Elliot milling machine."


Another quirk of the shock is that the Millyards recommend you run high tyre pressures, as they did back on the original bikes. Stephen says: "Harder tyres are better because a soft tyre is an undamped spring. The suspension does give better grip which compensates for the harder tyres. I used to race with 45 psi front and rear."

There is no plan to sell these publically, it's just another demonstration of the wild creativity of the Millyards and their engineering ingenuity. However, we've been told they have been working on a pretty out-there idea for a fork so watch this space for more Millyard madness in the near future.


216 Comments

  • 212 7
 weird amount of negativity going on in these comments, I think this is really interesting and I'm super curious to see how this works! I agree the high tire pressure thing sounds weird but I guess it makes sense? I'm not gonna pass judgement without seeing results though, and I've only heard great things about this guy from people I actually trust.
  • 31 96
flag WAKIdesigns (May 19, 2020 at 8:25) (Below Threshold)
 If the lad in the vid indeed runs Exo tires, then the only reason we didn’t see them getting rolled of the rim with such brutal cornering is because of Moar Air system. I burp out exos when doing with normal pressures. This lad put some serious side loads in those S-turns. I personally don’t buy this high tire pressure (ironic considering how slippery uk trails are in their normal state, not as pictured) but shock itself can be very interesting.
  • 51 23
 "weird amount of negativity going on in these comments"

That's because they're saying something that goes against multiple decades of R&D plus race results from both the non powered and powered off-road world. There is nothing shown to back up their claim, with million and millions of hours that back up that lower tire pressures work better off-road regardless of suspension.
  • 36 7
 Any control system is a sum of its entire whole. They have chosen to take a variable out of their system they couldn't directly control and design themselves (i.e. unpredictable tire deflection / compression rebound I'm guessing). You could absolutely use suspension to provide tire down force / grip over the rough terrain to make up for tire compliance loss. Look at race cars / offroad trucks. Plus he probably never flats as well
  • 24 3
 @NorCalNomad:
Actually, R&D shows that there is some configurations of shock action VS tire action that works, and others that doesn't.
As I guessed it from reading between the lines in several articles, this shock uses the compensation chamber of the hydraulic system as a spring. Like an airshock without any negative spring. Huge "preload", low spring rate, all backed up by high hydraulic dissipation. So if that is true (I never seen the shock IRL so I can't tell), high tire pressures are not a surprise: it balances the spring curve, and any rebound from the tire would be absorbed in the stiff hydraulic damping.
It may not be a common setup, but without riding it or without datas about performances, I can't see anything wrong... or, more precisely, anything worse than many other off the shelf MTB suspension.
  • 24 3
 @NorCalNomad: as below this is based on massive assumption - none of the testing that you refer to was done using this shock. Until there is external verification for this claim then why not take it at face value?

I'm reminded of how people looked at Chris Porter (someone working on a similar scale to the Millyards) not so long ago when he challenged the received wisdom of the MTB industry. Like "surely the very clever engineers at Trek or Specialized would have already done this stuff if it had any worth"...and yet here we are.
  • 23 39
flag WAKIdesigns (May 19, 2020 at 9:50) (Below Threshold)
 @alexhyland: sorry, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that softer tires offer better results since they improve grip as well as to a point: roll over. It’s fricking physics. Surface conforming to surface. However there is a twist to it and some truth what they are claiming and it goes hand in hand with folks at Nicolai, Syntace and Schwalbe - this particular feature: influence of tire on suspension, after puncture protection has been the second biggest benefit of procore. Tire conforms just enough but then insert takes over the impacts improving suspension action.
  • 17 1
 @WAKIdesigns: and yet, they are making this claim, and Stephen Millyard is no slouch by all accounts.

I have no idea of the physics of it and don't care to speculate - what you and others are saying makes sense to my ignorant mind, but then the Millyards are saying the opposite, and I am inclined to take what they are saying at face value until it can be verified.
  • 4 0
 Allen Millyard is my soul animal.
  • 7 1
 @alexhyland: Chris Porter is no Allen Millyard. Brilliant but not in the same league on manufacturing amazing things with literally a rock and a stick.
  • 8 1
 @chasejj: yeah, that wasn't the point I was making; apples and oranges. I was using him as an example to those who would back up assumptions with an appeal to authority, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt.
  • 8 18
flag mhoshal (May 19, 2020 at 10:51) (Below Threshold)
 @NorCalNomad: they don't work better lol it's just slowing you down. Why do you think roadies ride with max pressure. Lower pressure means more rolling resistance which isn't a good thing. Sure it gives you more grip but it is definitely slowing you down.
  • 8 6
 @mhoshal: This is a fact. Which is why Millyard is speaking truth. Every time I play with lower pressures in my tires I hate the drag on my effort it has going up and flats. There is a slight advantage over braking bumps on fast DH runs for sure. But that's it. I run EXO casings at 30-35psi for that reason and to avoid the tonnage DD casings bring on the ups. I suppose 45psi would be great on real rough DH but you better make sure your rim tape is on point or you're going to blow a hole in it at a spoke hole.
  • 9 1
 @alexhyland: interesting interview with CP m.youtube.com/watch?v=07-UyrtSCXk

Trek and S are only interested in selling bikes. There is no point in them making the best bike they possibly can as that doesn't work with their business model of selling a new version every year.
  • 6 2
 @NorCalNomad: and what you’re saying goes against the billions of dollars in car R&D for suspension. Higher tire pressure is better because it allows the suspension to do its work.

So, yeah, maybe do more research.
  • 1 2
 @NorCalNomad: multiple decades of who’s research and development though? I’m pretty sure this is the exact same system NASA used on the space shuttle and their R&D departments pretty decent.
  • 2 1
 @NorCalNomad: From what I've read, the Millyard shock pulls on learning from the military battle tanks. Maintaining stability over rough ground is key to hitting targets with the weapons systems.

Charging the shock to 300bar is going to be the main stumbling block for the consumer.

Its only now that we are seeing data logging systems which will enable bike setup to improve, so we can get the most out of what we have.
  • 3 0
 @fartymarty: I used Trek and Specialized mainly as examples of "big bike manufacturer", for me personally no hate to them or any other brand specifically.

But they and others do show how (understandably) conservative the industry is at the top. These companies are big beasts with likely pretty slim margins, you can't blame them for being like that. But expecting innovation to come from that area is a bad gamble, it's not surprising that the smaller players (and backyard tinkerers experimenting for the hell of it) with less to lose are where the action is at.
  • 14 0
 Allen Millyard and Guy Martin should be in charge of everything.
  • 22 12
 @WAKIdesigns: just shut the f*ck up man. Please. Get a bike. Log off. Try riding once instead of sitting at the keyboard.
  • 8 5
 @eriknasby: butt hurt much... Gotta say sometimes Waki goes off the rails but what he said up there seems a legit opinion...
  • 13 1
 @cougar797:
Yeah, I road raced motorcycles for 16 years, and cars too when asked during the same time period.
In road racing(at least) tire pressures are set to maximize GRIP. NOT for suspension interaction.
There's a lot in play here- maximizing the surface area in contact with the pavement, controlling the amount of heat generated(and this is HUGE in both on-and-off road racing) so the tire runs in the correct temp/pressure range so its compound's adhesion properties are maximized(and different compounds in the otherwise-same tire require different pressures), and you don't either cold-tear on one end, or blister on the other, are just a couple. When knobbies are in play(as in MTB tires) too high pressure can cause them to rip off because there's not enough give in the carcass to absorb the force(s) , thus they get isolated in the knobs, which obviously can't support 'em, and SEE YA.
Looks to me like dude is simply covering up for an engineering problem that he can't solve.
Buy hey...if he want's to ride this way, all the power to him
  • 2 0
 @cougar797: ????????
  • 7 0
 @cougar797: You’ve hit the nail on the head!
  • 1 0
 @YoKev: I am not arguing you’re point simply want to point out that your super bike and track car rubbers are WAY more predictable then mtb tires are different pressures. The scale of size and quality just isn’t the same realm.

Tire profile and compound would be super critical to these guys but not impossible.
  • 5 0
 To EVERYONE look up a term called "burden of proof"

or in meme terms "why are you booing me, I'm right"
  • 3 13
flag WAKIdesigns (May 19, 2020 at 22:54) (Below Threshold)
 @alexhyland: I am not putting whole career of Stephen Millyard in question, not even his claim about tire pressure influencing how suspension acts. Taylor Swift made some bad songs too. Tire is a form of suspension, almost 2” of suspension without rebound damping. This is why Procore is theoretically the best insert but others are less of a mess to setup and do some of that suspension job too.
  • 9 2
 @WAKIdesigns: You talk so much tripe. Bore off.
  • 2 0
 Waki is a procore fanboi
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: hasn't procore died off in pro DH and Enduro?
  • 1 0
 The reason for Procore was the slow speed test footage of Sam Hill blasting through rocks gardens which showed that the tyre would hit the rim before the suspension had time to react because of the inertia of the rear wheel /tire /swingarm system. So, lower pressure was deemed better but to protect the rim and tire Procore was needed.
  • 4 10
flag WAKIdesigns (May 20, 2020 at 0:38) (Below Threshold)
 @sir-hc: I said procore is "theoretically" best - for a reason, since Milyard also operates with a theory. Theoretically it solves many problems at once: puncture protection, low tire pressure with zero chance for burping, then improvement in suspension action - all at the weight of DH tube or increase in tire sidewall thickness. It is important to mention that weight of the procore really isn't much of an issue. But in reality there are a few problems with it, they are not disqualifying it, but they are actual issues, I had it so I can comment on it:
1. You can still puncture sidewalls thinner than DH casings, including Super Gravity and Double Down. I punctured 3 different tyres in 2 years on Procore, 2 of them being DD grade.
2. They are a fricking hassle to install, sometimes it takes a few tries before it seals around the valve (or packs up with sealant so it stips working..) and when you puncture the tire while being "out there", well that's not a mess, that's fricking bukkake deluxe, and you have to carry that slimy white inner system on your back or inside the backpack. To put it short: when it works, it is awesome, but when it doesn't - it's a disaster.
3. If by any chance you get a hit so hard that it will damage the rim, which is not that hard with rims wider than 30mm inner, then the rim can explode. It is not likely but it can happen.
4. Finally, the high pressure makes it problematic in general for lighter weight alloy rims and for many carbon rims. Even if exploding would not be the issue, it can still mess up your spoke tension.

Now inserts like cushcore still suffer from some issues: burping, weight and carrying noodle covered in sealant in case of a flat. They won't dampen then hits as well. But they are less of a hassle to install and won't kill the rim.
  • 3 8
flag mkotowski1 (May 20, 2020 at 3:42) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: logged on to say you wish you could design and put into practice something you created that actually worked... o wait all you do is troll people who actually create things. All you do is draw stuff that will never have real world applications, logging off so your comments will be blocked again, I will never read your worthless ass reply, get trolled bitch
  • 5 7
 @mkotowski1: oh you again. Who did I criticize here? Can you please remind me? Or do you mean that as soon as there is someone like Mr Milyard involved the only acceptable response is evident sucking balls? I loce his work, I even mentioned that his argument has been picked up by other companies before, with just a tiny twist. Are you pumping your tires to 40psi already then? I guess not, so how about you piss off
  • 8 0
 There’s a lot of negativity because they talk about running 45 psi front and rear which is quite honestly a ridiculous pressure for a mountain bike in basically all circumstances. In the comments millyard says they actually run 28 and 32 on this bike which makes a lot more sense. They’re running like 40% less psi in the front than the article talks about so it was kind of foolish for the writer to include anything about running 45 psi.
  • 2 1
 I like low tire pressure when going slow in rocky conditions and higher tire pressure when going fast and hard on all conditions! I must be nuts !!
  • 4 0
 Any body else pick up on the irony of Waki saying "oh you again"?
  • 1 2
 @NorCalNomad: There's quite a few examples is motor racing history where one went against the common wisdom, just to prove that literally everybody else was doing it wrong...
  • 1 0
 @angard008: Those are all very good points. Still not gonna run 45PSI in my mountain bike tires... Smile
  • 1 1
 @angard008: thank you. Very interesting video. However while this video about motorcycles can be related to road bikes, it has very little to do with extremely specific MTB riding. It’s a no brainer 30psi for a 200lbs person will always outperform a tire pumped to 40psi. Always under all conditions available in MTB and more slippery in more varied terrain it gets, the less pressure you want to run. Go ahead, try running 40psi in maxxis shorties or Magic Marys on wet roots.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: you're a no brainer
  • 86 10
 Look haters, I know why you're really upset... because you can't buy it. That' right, your money is no good here. Just a father, his son, and an iron-man worthy garage of a shop making one-offs. Thanks for the share PB, I loved that one-armed Millyard DH bike. Speaking of weird bikes, what ever happened to the Honda Dh bike program?
  • 9 0
 Also Showa mtb suspension!
  • 23 0
 Honda?
They wanted an answer to the question "can we?"
Yes, they can.
The end.
  • 4 1
 Yeah that dh bike looks damn amazing! I'm really surprised by the amount of people hating on these guys, didn't realize there were so many suspension engineers hanging out on pb today lol. Love hearing about creative ideas like this.
  • 4 0
 Honda only got into it to see if 'they could'. And their results showed not only that they could, but they could do it successfully. That was all they wanted, it was a project for them.
  • 2 1
 *drunk post* PSHHHH show me actual results and maybe I'd actually consider looking a shock that has inconsistent spacing on the milling of the cooling fins. Just like NAHBS, no reason to get all excited just cause someone didn't do it on a production scale.
  • 1 0
 @NorCalNomad: All of DVO's shocks have cooling fins. And I'm sure there're other brands out there that have them as well.
  • 62 5
 Hmmmm, who to trust, the Millyards and their many years of experience of creating brilliant things..... Or WakiDesigns and NorCalNomad, two essentially random people on a comment section of Pinkbike.
  • 22 10
 How can you call Pinkbike's troll's king "essentially random" you heretic! Waki is a legend here.
  • 21 1
 @faul: It was easy. I though it, then I typed it out.
  • 5 0
 I often ponder the same thing while watching the sunset.
  • 4 2
 @faul: guy deserves a shadow ban
  • 37 3
 It’s important to remember that the 45 PSI number is for old ass 26 inch wheels with 20mm rims. Some of your favs like Bryn Atkinson are still running like 35psi out back in 27.5, Just because it’s not trendy 15psi enduro pressures doesn’t mean it’s no good.
  • 6 0
 Not disputing anything that you said. I'm pretty sure Bryn could schralp a tire off a rim at any pressure.
  • 27 0
 I almost never comment on posts but I want to make my opinion known that weird little one-off tech pieces like this are by far my FAVORITE articles on PB. My only complaint is I wish the article were longer! Keep up the good work!
  • 2 0
 This thing is so outerworldy that many of us would like to know every detail there is, how does it work, how did they make it work, etc. And considering its been made in a shed is even more impressive!
  • 28 0
 I don't care, I want it.
  • 23 0
 Why so much negativity in the comments... oh wait its pinkbike

IMO very cool, interesting shock, something different for once. All the mainstream stuff (regarding suspension) is getting kinda boring if you ask me. WOW new fork/shock w/ marginal improvement compared to last year's. And it costs MORE LMAO.

I really like what Allen is doing and i really hope that one day his work gets some more credit. He deserves it. He is a frickin legend.
  • 1 3
 The negativity isnt without reason. This shock goes againt everything that the industry has learned in the past years. It has little adjustment, insanely high pressure, low shaft diameter and is unfriendly to setup due to needing nitrogen at the previously mentioned pressure and a pressure gauage that works at such high pressures. It can work, but the doubt is justified.
  • 24 2
 Wow, all the comments so far seem to be making assumptions and shitting on something they know nothing about...

Have you ridden it? Do you know someone who has tried it? Have you read anything by anyone who has tested it?
  • 14 1
 Steve Jones rode the original and raved over it. You can't say he doesn't know a thing or two about bikes.
  • 3 0
 It's the LeBron / MJ debate - in which there is no debate just quietly.

The young whippersnappers all think they know
But all the veterans actually know
  • 25 0
 Millyard is a wizard with mechanical stuff,period!
  • 17 3
 Lot of negative cock wombles creeping about in here.
  • 4 2
 Mate tons. How dare someone say something that goes against the received wisdom!! If this worked RockShox would have done it years back!!
  • 1 1
 @alexhyland: but!but!the EXPERTS said,haha!
  • 3 0
 His motorcycle creations are pretty impressive, to make and engineer your own internal gearbox bike frame and it worked, that alone, wowzers! time for an inline 8 motorcycle engine, we're waiting!
  • 23 2
 High pressure tyres are also an undamped spring. Unless you are running the tyres so hard they literally do not deform at all, millyards claim makes very little sense. Low pressure tyres conform to the terrain better. This means they will grip better, no matter what. If the above shock is basically an oleo damper, then it is likely to have no negative air spring. I wonder if the high tyre pressures are simply to stop the tyre bottoming out on the rim before the shock has even moved. It's really cool to see this being tried. But so far I'd have to wonder if their tyre pressure claims are hiding an issue rather than describing an advantage.
  • 11 2
 Well said. That's almost certainly the reason for the high tire pressure. An Oleo shock won't even open up until high shaft forces hit it, and the tire would absorb impacts preventing the shock from participating until the tire bottoms out.
  • 23 0
 The pressures in the video are 28 front and 32 rear. There are a lot of factors in choosing the pressure to run. Its very easy to assume that lower pressure means more surface area, giving more grip but what about when your wheels not on the ground because your rebound damping is to slow? Its all about balancing traction from surface area and traction from contact time. If you get a shock setup that keeps the wheel on the ground, tracking every bump then you have a lot more flexibility on tyre pressure.
  • 1 0
 @millyard: To me this makes perfect sense. I would describe it rather as having a high frequency damper capable of high number of movements in contrast to standard shocks which are simply slow. And since they are slow, they require lower tire pressure to conpensate for missing frequency range.
  • 1 0
 "Low pressure tyres conform to the terrain better. This means they will grip better, no matter what."
That seems like an over simplification of a complex system. You are correct only in two circumstances i.e. when a tire hits the upside of a bump where the required deformation is small enough that the tire is able to absorb it fully and at a speed that doesn't actuate the suspension or on an even surface.

Once you take bigger bumps, faster speeds and rear suspension action into account, things are more complex.
If softer was better, we'd all be running slow rebound to mimic a soft tyre.

I'd expect there to be a sweet spot for all suspension which is where there tyre deformation & rebound work approximately in phase with your suspension damping & rebound. This would only be for a range of speeds as tyre damping can't be controlled.
This would keep the tyre in firmer contact with the ground for longer and so provide more grip.
  • 1 0
 @millyard: Those tyre pressures seem perfectly sensible for skinny sidewall casings to be fair. I just don't think the claim that harder tyres are better because soft tyres are an undamped spring is very accurate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not crapping on the shock you have made. I have been super interested in it since the first millyard bike showed up. (And follow your facebook page with all of its mad motorbike creations. I am a fan)

@jbeanbuyer I think tyre pressures and shock rebound settings shouldn't confused. Running slow rebound does not mimic a soft tyre.

The tyre will always rebound faster than the shock no matter what pressures or casings you run (within sensible limits of course) so suggesting that a soft tyre wont remain in contact with the floor as well, all other variables being equal, seems incorrect.
  • 1 0
 *edit* That should probably read "unimpeded, the tyre will always rebound faster"
Essentially what I mean is that if the tyre is deformed and not in contact with the floor, it is going to return to its uncompressed state faster than the shock is. even at 20 psi.
  • 4 0
 @gabriel-mission9: Also consider sprung vs. unsprung mass. When talking about the bike's suspension, there's a lot of unsprung mass and the ratio is lower. For the back of the bike you're looking at 3-4 kg of unsprung mass. When talking about the tire's unsprung mass, there's almost none to speak of. Only one small part of the tire is deforming, maybe 100 grams?

So while it's true that it's an undamped spring, as a spring it has some other big upsides. It's in a uniquely good position to compress and then rebounding as the wheel passes over small bumps. Also, I wouldn't say tires are totally undamped. The difference in feel between a 2-ply downhill tire and a 1-ply trail tire can only be described as "damped." It goes thud thud instead of ping ping when you hit small bumps.
  • 19 0
 Allen is a freaking genius, not sure about the tyre pressure, but his 'tinkering' with no use of cad or any sophisticated equipment is legendary.
  • 17 1
 Dope. God love the out-of-the-box thinkers, the backyard tinkerers that pull ideas from other industries, that actually make something with their own hands. Appears to work like a boss, I'd love to try something like that. As someone else said, that slow-mo shot shows the rear end tracking sooooo well.
  • 12 0
 Love it when someone knows what they're seeing!
  • 14 2
 I find it funny that people don't really understand that mtb tires at less than 20 psi might not really be able to absorb the terrain as well as something stiffer but with better shock damping. I've seen lots of people with poorly tuned suspension and really low tire pressures complain that they can't get enough grip or small bump compliance.
  • 5 4
 Why is it funny that people don't understand this? Asking for a friend
  • 11 4
 Oleo dampers are more efficient. You can fit more damping into a smaller package. What that means as far as MTB performance goes, who knows. One thing I do know for a fact is that 45psi tires certainly do not grip as well as 26psi, no matter the suspension setup.
  • 8 5
 Are they putting your shock up here next week? I'm interested to see what you built.
  • 3 0
 Displays a pinkish see through dildo.
Caption reads "Made quite firm, but can not manage to keep traction when wet, or if rooting is involved"
  • 14 3
 4200psi? I don't want that in between my legs
  • 14 2
 Thats what she said.
  • 3 1
 Volume is very low and compressed air isnt very reactive. You should see paintball tanks.
  • 1 0
 I thought that was referring to the portable bottle, but the text is so ambiguous that you might well be right.
  • 1 0
 I bet there isn't much difference between that and a compressed air shock.
  • 1 0
 @millyard: I meant in terms of max pressure when a standard shock is fully compressed. yes I will pay a fiver to try it and be wrong. Will it fit an evil calling?
  • 3 0
 How the hell did I get downvoted for a factual comment and "that's what she said" is +9. That's shameful.
  • 4 0
 @RonSauce: No need to take it personally, this is Pinkbike where comments mean nothing and everyone is an armchair bike engineer.
  • 10 0
 You guys can't even read .. he said that harder tires work better. & he "Used" to run 45 lbs pressure.
  • 15 0
 Nicely read! Back in the days of 2.35 tyres on thin 26" rims, 45psi was my go to on a flat out dry track.
  • 8 0
 No, they cant read, they saw 45 psi and went straight to the comments.
  • 6 0
 Schwalbe's take on Tire Pressure
www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/rolling_resistance
Which factors affect rolling resistance?
Tire pressure, tire diameter, tire width, tire construction, tire tread and other factors all have an effect on rolling resistance.

On a completely smooth surface the following applies: The higher the inflation pressure, the inferior the tire deformation and thus rolling resistance.

Off road it is exactly the reverse: The lower the inflation pressure, the lower the rolling resistance. This applies equally on hard gravel roads and soft forest tracks. Explanation: A tire with low inflation pressure can adapt better to a rugged surface. It sinks into the ground less and the whole rotational mass is held back much less by the uneven surface.

Tires with a smaller diameter have a higher rolling resistance with the same inflation pressure, because tire deformation is proportionally greater. The tire is flattened more and is “less round”.

Wider tires roll better than narrower tires. This statement generally invokes skepticism, nevertheless, with tires at the same pressure a narrower tire deflects more and so deforms more.

Obviously, tire construction also has an effect on rolling resistance. By using less material, less material can be deformed. And the more flexible the material is, such as the rubber compound, the less energy is lost through deformation.

Generally, smooth treads roll better than coarse treads. Tall lugs and wide gaps usually have a detrimental effect on rolling resistance.
  • 6 0
 Wakidesigns is just one of those people who convinces himself he knows what he's, talking about .and thanks to a few comments previously that he comments on everything his main goal is to comment on everything and the vast majority of it being speculative bs or just his opinion which is the same thing
  • 8 0
 Ingenuity, Perseverance, and British to the core! Impressive work by the Millyard Team. Keep it up!
  • 2 3
 Add to that Land Rover reliability and we got a deal!
  • 5 1
 Check the slow mo clip of the rear wheel travel vs fork movement. The rear wheel was tracking so smooth and fast. The still very nice well controlled fork has a more stutter, bouncy movement to it. This thing obviously works well. Its getting better but mainstream mtb suspension is still catching up to other technologies out there.
  • 9 5
 Why does the community continue to get excited about new products that have no real data/measurements behind them? Rockshox sticks you with an air spring that loses 10mm travel to sag under bike weight. Fox brings out a 2021 grip damper with 5x less compression damping. etc etc. How about more real numbers, dyno graphs, etc so we can assess what actually works and what is changing in products year over year?
  • 20 0
 Lets get it on a dyno! Know anyone who can do it?
  • 1 0
 @millyard: Royal suspension in France can dyno a shock. But it's not Free.
  • 7 0
 @millyard: i can, I've actually been meaning to get in contact for a while anyway
  • 7 0
 @GumptionZA: Lets do it! Message me. My insta is @stephen_millyard
  • 12 0
 @millyard: but i have conditions, i want to see the viper engine with wheels
  • 8 0
 @GumptionZA: Seems like a fair trade!
  • 3 0
 @millyard: Willing to send a unit to the US? I have access to a Roehrig dyno. Maybe @MotionInstruments could send you a test setup to back to back the factory spec'd shock versus yours.
  • 2 0
 Millyard, trolling users and putting his money where his mouth is. Get it done lads!
  • 5 0
 @millyard:
Send it to Germany and I will dyno your shock. Have a Roehrig machine waiting and can do it on short notice. Free of charge for the sake of my own curiosity.
  • 2 0
 In our experience, anything that can be felt can be quantified with numbers. Just by looking at the numbers, we can tell you the damper model/year for most brands. We know what makes the Lyrik a shine at speed and why the Grip-2 was a big improvement over the Fit-4 damper. We have even quantified the benefits of a CushCore insert to your suspension movement and overall vibration you feel when you ride. One thing we know for a fact, and you can take this to the bank, measuring something on a dyno is completely orthogonal to seeing it behave on a specific bike on a trail. A dyno is useful, data on the bike is just as important. In fact, you can take data from the trail and replay it on a high velocity dyno to look at real world force-velocity data. Bottom line, the technology is available and is certainly affordable for anyone designing suspension. Way cheaper than a high velocity dyno (200x cheaper...).
  • 1 0
 @kleinschuster: Could be a fun project. We could pony something up for a limited time if you plan on publishing your findings.
  • 2 0
 @MotionInstruments: We’ve seen dyno reports for our front forks but the suspension manufacture doing the test wouldn’t allow us to photograph the readout. I’m confident this shock performa the same so 100% on publishing the findings!
  • 6 2
 Conspiracy theory: The Millyards own stock in Pinkbike and build crazy stuff that none of us really understand then make crazy claims that none of us can refute (remember, we don't understand) so that we all argue with each other in the comments section and increase ad revenue.
  • 3 0
 Not only that, but all articles are run by Waki 24hrs in advance so he can write huge comments that get people either riled up or in complete agreement.
  • 5 0
 Having owned a Transition Sentinel, and read Steve Jones' praise of that shock, I can only imagine what a blast that thing is to ride!
  • 4 0
 Always loved these guys work. Shame some people only read what they want. It does quite clearly state they suggest running higher pressures, followed by a reason and an example (albeit one probably based on 26" wheel size).
  • 3 0
 Interesting stuff, but I have a few questions. Lots of arguments about high true pressures? Surely over varied conditions high tyre pressure could do be unpredictable? Comparing to tanks? Solid steel wheels, with a coating of rubber, with a 70tonne weight? Aircraft landing on a manicured runway? Is this adaptable to MTB? Valid question for sure? How does this compare to off-road moto, ATV, Trophy Truck and Rally? Do they use the same tech? Lots more money in those sports? Why aren’t they using it? Do tanks really see the same variances in terrain? Vids I’ve seen they seem to skip over/ bridge gaps with their rigid frame + massive inertia, very different to a 70kg guy on a 13kg bike. Donno, I’m not sold but would love to be proved wrong. Put the thing under a World Cup rider and I’d love to see the result.
  • 4 0
 To anyone interested in how a oleo strut works, here is a explanation!

insights.globalspec.com/article/12954/how-do-oleo-pneumatic-shock-struts-work
  • 2 0
 I get one stupid question a day and I'll use it here.....what is the major difference between this shock and a std. air shock? They both use air and oil, diaphragms, etc.
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: I'm no engineer, but this one seems to have an IFP separating gas and oleo, while the oleo is in direct contact with the shaft. Also that needle for compression and another complete circuit for rebound. While our normal shock has the air as main spring and separated internal, but paralel, circuit for compression and rebound within.
Basically inline circuit and paralel circuit. Much like DYAD by Fox was, but instead of sucking the shaft, it's pushing.
The stupid question is for another time, ok?
  • 2 0
 @Notmeatall: thanks buddy
  • 5 3
 Yeh the haters probably struggle at best just trying to keep there bike serviced,
not as if they have achieved much in there days, knock out a couple kids and
sit on there fat middle aged arse in front of the computer pretending to be experts,
bit like me : )

Reminds me of the John Britten story, he did it differently and challenged the ways
of the big names at Daytona with his scratch built Britten V1000, and no one was
doing what he was doing despite there decades in the industry and millions in resources.

One man making something happen, Respect!
  • 4 0
 Did you see his Z1 6 cylinder? How is that even possible from a home garage? The guy is operating at another level. Like a couple orders of magnitude above anyone here.
  • 2 0
 Yeah but... we have keybordz!!
  • 2 0
 Porsche builds the most succesful sports car of all times on a concept that would be considered suboptimal by "common wisdom". Did this stop them and the 911 from winning pretty much all major GT racing classes in existence at one point or another? Certainly not.

Sometimes, you going against "common wisdom" just means that literally everybody else got it wrong. Its rare, but it happens.
  • 1 0
 yet, they recently are using the 911 with the engine twisted, in front of the rear axle, because it's the most racing balanced setup to achieve more speed. Nevertheless they were very successful rear engine vehicles, always adopting some way to push the engine and all of the weight inside of the wheelbase. They even had to make a very large rear end to conterweight the weight of the engine.
Even corvette has adopted the mid engine layout now.
Now, I think we need to check those baja trucks, but I think there is a better layout for a shock/damper in the wild.
  • 3 0
 Allen Millyard. The guy who built a carburetor freehand. And it worked first try.

Give the man funding, and he’d colonize the entire solar system.

Look up his viper v10 motorcycle btw!
  • 2 0
 It's obvious from not just the slow mo footage but also from the audio at how quiet and damped the rear is!.
I'm sold and extremely intrigued to see if the Millyard's cannot get something going here in the UK?
I'm sure theres allot of us "old boys" who would jump at getting something truly special on their bike.
Cannot wait to see what the fork looks and sounds like!
  • 5 1
 I wonder what Allen thinks about Cushcore and the likes in relation to the undamped spring comment!
  • 7 6
 Tyres and shocks do different jobs entirely - 45 psi on a hard chalky surface will have you sliding around and losing speed no matter how good your shock is. Under some circumstances 45 psi will be quicker than 26 psi, but it's ridiculous to suggest that this shock changes the way that tyres work. Tyres deform to give grip across a much smaller range of movement and across multiple planes. Shocks work in a single plane.
  • 1 0
 Not entirely. There are plenty of articles/vlogs etc out there discussing how tire pressure, type of tire, etc play into how a suspension works.
  • 5 2
 Mads props to this guy for designing his own shock....but outside of the creativity and outside of box thinking, what are the advantages?
  • 3 0
 Regarding negativity - remember when we cut our bars to 21 inches and called everyone a moron that rode wider 580's or 620's. Keep experimenting!
  • 1 0
 Thanks for these Millyard updates! Still have the copy of Dirt and the 1:04 review... To these eyes it’s a beautiful bike, and the quality of execution combined with brilliant concepts just add to the appeal.

And as to the shock itself and tire psi... I think the very same point about high tire pressures was made in Dirt mag, all those years ago. Tires and wheels have changed quite a bit for sure. However even then, Steve Jones (a man who can certainly ride a bike) couldn’t believe the grip he was getting - at what turned out to be 120mm travel too)

I‘m looking forward to the Nitroshox becoming available at some point (I keep following them on Instagram and hoping!) as it does sound like an interesting departure from the norm..
  • 2 0
 In my next life I want to be an engineer with the skills and tools to build my own stuff, how friggin cool! For now I'm resigned to a desk job, talking to people, and reading Pinkbike.
  • 2 0
 Plenty of books, youtube, and online classes if you want to learn! Maybe building a shock is out of the question but you can work towards something more manageable. I'm sure there's something about MTB bikes or accessories that you think could use improvement.
  • 1 0
 I wanna try this. This seems relevant to my interests.
The part of tires being underdamped springs, has been an issue for me forever, but was quickly remedied when I started running CushCore, which acts as damping control for my tires. (Best suspension upgrade I've ever done)
  • 1 0
 What I don't understand is, how can a shock provide sideways grip? High tire pressure means smaller contact patch. Smaller contact patch means less grip. How can a shock, that only moves in one direction, compensate for lack of grip caused by a smaller contact patch?
  • 3 0
 Contact time is as important as contact area
  • 1 0
 @millyard: sure, but suspension will never compensate for tires not conforming to the surface underneath them. Don't get me wrong, suspension has a very big effect on grip. I just don't see how you can 'replace' contact area with suspension. Just as how you shouldn't replace proper suspension with big almost flat tires.
Let's say you have perfect suspension and extremely hard tires and you run over a rockgarden. The suspension will keep the bike stable and maximise contact time. However, your tires will still be riding on the top edges of the rocks. No way that this will result in great grip. There is an optimal equilibrium, but I don't see that shifting massively by using slightly different suspension. Motocross, 4x4 offroading and off-road bikers all run semi-low pressure for a reason.
  • 1 0
 If anyone here is into cars.... Oleo struts the same idea as Citroen's Hydropneumatic suspension. So yea, this has been used on cars, it was known for incredible ride quality. However, they were a nightmare to work on. I'm still trying to find any distinct advantages to an Oleo system compared to the traditional spring-damper system. The biggest one I see is reduced cavitation, as the pressure is very high for the hydraulic damper. If a metering pin is used, they can also have damping more closely match the spring rate, however they said they don't have those. Curious to see more on this design to be sure!
  • 3 1
 This looks awesome, it’s really impressive to see such an innovative design come out so refined from a backyard workshop. These two definitely need to go into business
  • 2 0
 Nitroshox are still ticking over and look (vaguely) close to bringing an Oleo shock to market www.facebook.com/nitroshox
  • 1 1
 I guess I'm a little confused on what the actual spring is. Not an air spring but an argon spring? Could someone explain to me how that works? I think it's cool, but don't expect it to be on the market, as 1) no damper adjustments, how can you make a shock that performs properly at low and high spring rates when you can't adjust damping? 2) It's not worth the $1k it will probably be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that argon sprung suspension has some incredible low-friction property, which would be the only reason I would shell out the cash for a new kind of suspension. It's totally cool but unless it works better than air or coil, I'm not going for it as a buyer.
  • 2 0
 This post has made my day!

was just messaging @mikelevy about this recently... really hope this becomes available to the masses
  • 2 0
 It seems that most people "got stuck" at the tire pressure thesis of Mr Millyard and forget that interesting shock absorber...
  • 4 0
 I want to see Emily Batty run this shock to troll Waki.
  • 1 0
 Looking for a front shock for linkie bike?
www.pinkbike.com/photo/17994253
Still dont totally understand how Mallyard shock works, but who does but think the application is sound?
  • 1 0
 This one looks really interesting. I would like to see more! (look a bit like some of my ideas over the Whyte PRST fork www.pinkbike.com/photo/18468997 )
  • 1 0
 @uncajohn: Is more like the Structure Cycleworks bike, I need to finish it to ride able state, but front brake mount ended up being non standard mount but that is sorted now , but still needs some work with front shock tune as requires a very lite tune compared to a rear shock, but could be a really good fit for Millyard's shock since how active it is on the rear!
  • 4 2
 Pretty cool, but not sure if I’d want that bike. It doesn’t have Deore 12s on it.
  • 5 2
 Damper from a Land Rover? what's next, electronics by Lucas?
  • 2 1
 Sick of hearing about this shock that's never available, the only review I've ever seen was pretty underwhelming, with lots of quirks, like no sag point etc
  • 2 0
 A BSA valve guide? This mad scientist is taking us back to the future.
I love the stuff he makes.
  • 3 0
 45 psi in my minion i don't care about your opinion
  • 1 1
 Have heard of problems with micro holes in Maxxis tyres from pumping up real hard to set up tubeless & will no longer stay inflated for more than a few hours?
  • 2 0
 It's nice, weird and you can't have it. But it can make a miles of comments
  • 1 0
 Is there any info out there on how these types of shock work. A quick google didn’t find anything useful.
  • 3 0
 Google 'oleo strut'. It's technology that has been used in plane landing gears for decades so there is an enormous amount of information out there about how the concept works at least. There has never been any information from Millyard or Nitro Shox about how they've translated the concept to an MTB shock however.
  • 13 0
 @farkinoath: We will be doing a full how its made video explaining all the internals and the processes to make and assemble the shock
  • 1 0
 @millyard: I look forward to that lots. Whilst i don't 'get' some of the things that come out of your old mans workshop, mostly because i'm a bit of a purist on motorbikes and don't honestly grasp why some of the changes are made other than 'to see if we can', i think the quality of work and the deisgns are absolutely astounding and having seen some of your/his work at Calne bike show a few times it's truly astounding what you fellas do. So having more information can only be a brilliant step forward.
  • 1 0
 Look for info on Sherman Tank shock patent! I know the original shock was modeled from that tank shocks,
  • 1 0
 Looks like it was mounted on a tranny which is a good move in anyone’s eyes.
  • 1 0
 Can someone please install that on an Orange and call it a day. Now that would have brought out the hate!
  • 2 0
 YESSSSSSSS
  • 2 0
 Maximum PSI GUY
  • 2 0
 Love this content.
  • 1 0
 Doesn't Risse do something similar?
  • 1 0
 Risse? Wow. I used to lust over the Terminator rear shock. What a thing.
  • 1 0
 I want a full review, now.
  • 1 0
 It is very good to be spawning such innovation in the garden !
  • 1 0
 Looks like the assassin droid from The Mandalorian.
  • 2 2
 no adjustments on the shock? no rebound? Id like to hear why and how!
  • 6 0
 the damper oil flow is controlled by a metering pin. either the diameter of the pin varies or the depth of the flutes cut in the metering pin varies. the amount of oil that can pass through the port is dependant on where in its stroke the damper is, you can have slow rebound at bottom out for big hits, and super fast rebound during intital stroke for small bumps and chatter. i used to make metering pins for aircraft landing gear and the same aircraft could have many different pins depending on the configuration required. set it and forget it.
  • 19 0
 @RoverDover: We don't have a metering pin. We will be doing a full how its made video soon so you can see exactly how we made it but I can confirm theres no metering pin or valves or flood gates or anything to regulate any flow of oil.
  • 6 0
 @millyard: I swear I've been waiting 15 years to see any infomation about what was/is going on inside that shock so to see this article, all these years later, with still zero information about what's actually going on in there was a bit of a bummer. Can't wait for that how it's made video!
  • 3 0
 @farkinoath: Ten years in here,is like TOOL album
  • 1 0
 i just wanna try it.
  • 2 1
 WANT!
  • 1 1
 Very,very,cool. Makes me proud to be British!
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