Muc-Off Withdraws Commencal 21 Sponsorship & Insists Amaury Pierron Take Course After 'Racial Stereotyping'

Jul 30, 2021 at 9:40
by James Smurthwaite  
Amaury Pierron

Muc-Off has withdrawn its sponsorship of the Commencal 21 team and will fund an education program for Amaury Pierron following recent social media posts.

Last week, Commencal 21 Team Manager Charlie Juliá shared a photo of Amaury Pierron with cornrows and the words "Next level n----tion" in his Instagram Stories, which Pierron subsequently shared in his own Instagram Stories with the caption "Rap carrer in the making” set to Bobnlarry's 'N---- N---- N----' song. The pair later both apologised for posting the Stories with statements on social media that can be read, here.

Muc-Off reached out to inform us it will no longer be an equipment sponsor for the Commencal 21 team and while it will remain the title sponsor for Pierron's Commencal/Muc-Off team, it has agreed that Pierron will undertake an education course paid for through its sponsorship money.

bigquotesWe completely oppose any and all forms of racial stereotyping, and we have taken direct action with the teams involved. Due to where the post originated, we have decided to cancel our sponsorship contract with Commencal 21. In addition, we have agreed with the Commencal/Muc-Off team that Amaury will undertake an education programme on the subject, which we have insisted is paid for using our sponsorship money.Muc-Off

Commencal and Pierron declined to comment. We have approached Juliá for comment and will update this post if he responds.


864 Comments

  • 540 240
 Good - what a stupid thing to post in the first place as a role model to lots of younger riders
  • 113 57
 Yep. Key word - stupid.
  • 97 41
 Yah not sure how he couldnt see this backlash coming either it hasnt been acceptable for quite a long time now
  • 66 40
 Agreed. Especially in today's day and age, this kind of thing will get you into big trouble every time. It sucks for the rest of the team, but people have to realize that their actions do have consequences. When you pick up one end of the stick, you also pick up the other end. There's no way to make actions like this, and expect zero repercussions.
  • 380 171
 I see only native speakers putting judgements. Do you guys have any clue how close to impossible it is to know and understand everything in a foreign language ? I am 100% against racism or any other discrimination. But being so judgemental also suck a lot.
Isn’t just an easy way for Muc-off to simultaneously save money and promote themselves ? Not judging, just questioning.
  • 133 61
 @EnduroManiac: are you joking, he definately knew what the word meant
  • 146 5
 wasn't it the team manager that posted the video? stupid to say it and even stupider to post it. dumbass. Social media is the downfall of society.
  • 21 10
 @EnduroManiac: Happens in this case that the easy way is also the right way to do business.
  • 113 198
flag Mondbiker (Jul 30, 2021 at 13:40) (Below Threshold)
 @EnduroManiac: It only Americans that care, rest of the world don´t really care, I listen to rap music quite often and I don´t cry every time they say it, I didn´t cry when AP did either. Because that would be racist, you know.
  • 142 11
 @EnduroManiac: I think it's fair to say this was stupid. Insanely dumb. But I don't think (and I think most would agree) racist in INTENT.

Amaury has always come across as a very genuine guy, i feel pretty damn sorry for him. If I am right about his true character (ie not actually a Nazi) embarrassment on that level is something that I hope to god I never have to deal with. It's a hard way to learn this lesson for sure!
  • 280 172
 @Ds1234: so if a black rapper says in a song « n*gger » (and a lot do it a lot), it’s ok. But if white guy mimics a rapper (possibly he may even enjoy rap from black guys, like I do) and says "n*gger" then it’s wrong and unacceptable? Really ? Please explain me why.
Note: again I am not supporting public offense of any sort.
  • 55 86
flag DarrellW (Jul 30, 2021 at 13:53) (Below Threshold)
 @EnduroManiac: Yes indeed. It's not just that, but the term "negre" is fine in France. I mean, they even eat "tetes de negres".

Anyway, I can't take this anymore. I'm off to listen to Clawfinger: www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ng1ovEr46c
  • 497 6
 I seem to recall Muc-Off tastelessly objectifying women in their advertising for years. If I could, I’d have them enroll in the same education programme Amaury is receiving.
  • 32 4
 @alexhyland: you are likely correct re: intent...but don't post stupid s**t if your income is generated by sponsors who don't want to be associated with it.
  • 6 3
 In other news, Bobnlarry's "This Is Not An Album" album is fire. You should definitely go check it out.
  • 65 35
 @EnduroManiac: Yes.

I'm certain you aren't racist. But if you can't understand why that is, then maybe you should take a moment to stop and think about why that is.
  • 25 5
 Muc-OFF called Dr. Phil today to start the reeducation process.
  • 203 60
 @EnduroManiac: Yes it is wrong for a white person to use the N word. It is a word with a history of racial violence and systematic oppression in the United States, and some other countries as well, primarily from white power systems towards non-white individuals. As such, when used by a white person to refer to a non-white person it has a different connotation than when used by a non-white person towards another non-white person. Words carry the weight of our history and collective safety and these histories and the weight carried differ across cultures. From a North American lens what he did was would be considered by many to be at very least racially insensitive and likely racist. I'm not saying he is racist or his intent was racist. However, we don't always get to say how our behaviours will be interpreted- especially around issues as sensitive as racism and discrimination and by groups who have experienced intergenerational harm and devastation from it. Joking as a white person about using the N word in the song behind you getting corn rows may be interpreted very differently by someone who has had that word used to imply they were of lesser value than others.
  • 92 7
 @DarrellW: actually no, it’s not acceptable at all.
The only occurrence where it is acceptable is the derived “negritude”, a word invented by Aimé Césaire, a black French poet and politician to describe what it is feels like to be black in French society.
And « tête de n*egres » have been banned for quite some time now.
Well, not the pastry itself of course but rather the name. It usually is « boule chocolat » now.

On the core topic, I think it has been completely blown out of proportion. But hey, great visibility / fame comes with great responsibility.
  • 8 1
 @Hayek: victoria in bathing suits and. Nurses outfits lol1
  • 23 4
 @Mondbiker: you make a good point in there even if I disagree with your broader point - I don't think anyone is really (as in actually, personally) hurt by what AP did. I might be wrong and would be happy to be shown otherwise.

But that doesn't make it OK, it definitely should be called out - IT WAS COLLOSALLY DUMB.

I would say the person who has suffered the most actual hurt from this (by a long way) is AP himself. I genuinely hope he's OK.
  • 20 0
 @Hayek: google muc-off victoria moore
  • 33 63
flag emptybe-er (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:20) (Below Threshold)
 @alexhyland: If there was no intent, why did they think it would be a funny edit? The title, the hair, the song. Because he’s white, not black, right?
Racism and ignorance happen all the time without intent. Saying this is just a dumb mistake reminds me of child predators getting caught, they say the same thing. If this is the kind of thing you do by mistake, you need serious help.
  • 34 26
 @alexhyland: It was dumb for sure, but the reason why it was dumb is...Dumb.
  • 12 5
 @SATN-XC: yeah I feel like the only way you could even post something like that right now is if you have a level of ignorance on the subject that seems kind of nuts to you and me. Which I think is probably the case, cos what's the alternative? He meant it and is an actual racist who WANTED to disembowel himself dishonourably in public?
  • 25 3
 @DarrellW: being french myself I can certify that "nègre" is nowadays not ok. At a time it was more or less the equivalent of today’s "noir" (eg black). The sweet "tête de nègre" has been renamed btw. Same thing here in Switzerland (german speaking part) where Morenkopf is disappearing.
  • 12 15
 @emptybe-er: whoa steady on there! That's, er, quite the jump.

I mean, it's not *just* a dumb mistake. It's an INSANELY DUMB act of social suicide.

"why did they think it would be a funny edit? The title, the hair, the song." I reckon cos they are, by the standards of most of the English speaking western world, pretty unbelievably ignorant. The alternative is, there was a racist intent, they are in fact Nazis, and wanted to out themselves in the most public and damaging way possible. How likely is that do you think?

I agree that it needs to be called out. I also agree with Muc-Off that there definitely needs to be some education.
  • 28 9
 @EnduroManiac: If this were 1992 way before the internet had everything available to learn about culture, racism, news, history, politics, current events, racial climate, ect then I could almost understand your argument about Amaury being from a foreign country. But anyone posting this stuff 2021 is either living on a deserted island with no communication with the outside world or just plain dumb.
  • 8 1
 @Mondbiker: I disagree. @snl1200 said why much better than I can.
  • 6 16
flag Mondbiker (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:37) (Below Threshold)
 @alexhyland: Of course you do.
  • 107 29
 @dirtdiggler:
So the rest of the world needs to keep track of what is considered socially acceptable in the US? That’s a bit arrogant isn’t it?
  • 36 16
 @EnduroManiac: because the word was originally created as an insult. The people on the receiving end of the insult have taken that word, and embraced it and used it to address each other, hence between themselves removing its power as an insult. You aren’t them, therefore coming from you, it is still an insult.
  • 6 3
 @Hayek: Hopefully, objectification will soon be a thing of the past, too, eh?
  • 9 18
flag mariomtblt (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:48) (Below Threshold)
 @cvoc: ever watch f1? hardly the just the US idiot.
  • 9 2
 @Hayek: I came here to say the same thing...lol. They are doing better now, but for years they were one of the worst in the industry.
  • 10 4
 @alexhyland: you make it sound like he’s either innocent or capable of genocide. There’s quite a bit of ground between. Racism perpetuates with ignorant people gobbling up invalid analogies just like this
  • 191 64
 Wow. So much wokeness within so many comments.

I feel like everybody here took a class in Key & Peele rather than common decency and forgiveness.

Muc-Off is demonstrating that they don't believe in forgiveness. They just want to get press in this situation by appearing to be the virtuous one.

Pierron apologized. How did we get to the point where everyone has to burn everybody down? If you're a sponsor, your goal is to promote your products and support the riders and help them get better.

Whether "better" is phyiscally or mentally or socially...you have to lead by example.

Forgive the guy. Work with him. They could have said "Look, you've got to make amends. We need you to develop some form of outreach camp where you work with underpriviliged youth, etc."
Muc-Off just wants to humiliate the guy, not help the situation.

Crap thing to do
  • 17 18
 @alexhyland: Intent does not negate impact
  • 51 8
 @blowmyfuse: Pierron's excuse was "I didn't know it was wrong", so I think education on why it was wrong is a totally appropriate next step
  • 26 31
flag Rokcore (Jul 30, 2021 at 15:18) (Below Threshold)
 @blowmyfuse: This isn't a whoops I spilled a drink mistake. They had plenty of opportunity to think about this before posting. This is a "the whole world tells you fire is hot and you have to be the idiot that jumps in a fire soaked with gasoline"
  • 16 5
 @emptybe-er: I didn't say he was Hitler. I say Nazi to mean "actual card carrying racist". I mean if you want to go down the road of invalid analogies, did you not just liken him to a child predator?

I mean, what's the end result here? How much contrition is enough? Will we be happy when, having lost his career at a very young age because of a massively dumb social faux pas, Amaury decides to call it quits and actually off himself? An extreme example I know, but it's happened.

I mean, what do you suggest?
  • 29 3
 I ve got a feeling that the rest of the WC riders are going to support AP and realise it was a bad mistake on his behalf. Everyone makes mistakes and PB comments section is just a viper pit
  • 8 1
 @flyingfox49: people calling for the death of someone one day then completely forgetting about it and loving them the next, no way thats gonna happen especially in the pinkbike comments!
  • 3 3
 @xTwoSnakesx: no sure, I agree. But it doesn't mean intent should be disregarded.
  • 3 1
 @snl1200: well said!
  • 1 8
flag alexhyland (Jul 30, 2021 at 15:32) (Below Threshold)
 @blowmyfuse: I mostly agree with you here. But I think from a corporate perspective, Muc-Off have not done that badly considering the circumstances. Yes, they could do better - your idea was better (and who knows what's been said behind closed doors actually) - but they could do a lot worse. f*ck knows I wouldn't want to be in any of their positions.
  • 5 3
 @ReeferSouthrland: your comment is way better than all these arrogant individuals. Dave chapel bitches
  • 5 1
 True assumption for PB commenters but definitely the French riders will support him and I think the rest just won’t want to get involved in making an example of AP because that will come across as victimisation
.@endurogan:
  • 10 0
 @Hayek: exactly guess how barren my field of f*cks is when muc off products pull sponsorship,
  • 35 27
 @alexhyland: I really wanted to stay out of this, but yours is the fourth post that I've read saying something along the lines of, "wow that was dumb, I feel sorry for AP."

The whole point of the outrage around this situation is that a person of privilege is offensively using racist tropes for their own amusement/social media gain. With or without intent to harm doesn't change the harm.

Generations of people of color have had to deal with most of the world around them actively trying to harm them and withhold from them. Black minstrels and other forms of 'impersonation' have spread these racist ideas.

Hopefully AP learns a lot, and comes out of the whole thing as an ally and advocate. That said, I'm not sorry that there are real consequences for his behavior.
  • 38 11
 So let me get this straight. So the kid made an error and a sponsor pulled out of sponsoring a team because of it...I get that. What I don't get is that a now former sponsor has agreed with the team that he now had to take and educational program for this. Never heard of a former employer requiring a former employee has to take a training course of any kind. If you were going to remain as a sponsor of the team I could see the necessity of your requirement to have him go to an educational program. If you pull your money that is fine Muc Off but move on. With a name like Muc Off I wouldn't have assumed that you were so holier than thou.
  • 4 3
 @wind13: yes, I agree that consequences are necessary. And yes, I am aware of the context of why the consequences are necessary. I find very little to disagree with you on.

However, I still reserve the right to empathise compassionately with how AP must (assuming he isn't ACTUALLY racist) feel right now.

I personally hate to have my intentions misunderstood, I think that's pretty universal. Probably even worse if you realise that although you didn't have a bad intention, you were nonetheless in the wrong. I can't imagine doing that on such a massive scale.
  • 9 0
 @vjunior21: It's a bit confusing, but as I read it they're still the title sponsor of the Commencal/Muc-Off team which Pierron is on, but they're no longer sponsoring the Commencal 21 team, who's manager posted the photo on Instagram.
  • 140 18
 Just piggybacking the top comment for visibility.

While I think this is a bit of a mountain out of a molehill, Amaury was very silly as a public figure in MTB to be so loose with the N word. I also think Muc-Off are a bit silly to be making him take a racial awareness course, I think he knows what he has done now. Saying that I did learn something taking a speed awareness course after getting caught (slightly) speeding, so maybe it will be useful for him.

However...the main thing that caught my attention when this raised its head last week was that I remembered how many Commencal branded edits I have watched over the last few years with N**** and M****Fu**a in the soundtracks. I think their edits are great actually, but always thought as a brand in the public spotlight they were being a bit risky by having this so prominent in sooo many of 'their' edits. Not just edits that happen to have people riding one of their bikes. I had a quick flick through their official Youtube channel and picked a few examples, not even going that far back. There will be loads more.

Brooklyn N**** I am - 0.56s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTrV7GFNo3k

N****s still hating - 1.52s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IVtT954kH0

N**** tried to tell me… - 0.51s and plenty more throughout
www.youtube.com/watch?v=x96SF3QR5RA

Hoes and sluts on a kids bike edit, nice!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAdzMpHw3WI

That n**** count my check - 1.36s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuwvG_eFlCQ

N****s say I do - 0.26s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXB1qx0_aVY

Y’all n****s show her how I live - 0.25s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSx8vue42GA

N****’s money come in Roman numerals - 1.21s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbr0PxgTAOE

I'm not trying to have Commencal cancelled, far from it as I think that whole culture is madness. Maybe some of their riders or the main media guys just really like this style of rap? It does go well with the vibe of their edits. Maybe affluent people in these French/Andorran regions are quite far removed from cultures where these words can hit the hardest and have become complacent with it? Maybe the issue is bigger than just Amaury and there is an undercurrent of racism at the brand? Maybe it's just music and because it is already out there in the public domain, what is the harm in using it on an edit?

I do definitely remember hearing it in lots of their edits over the last while and thinking that is going to come and bite them in the ass sometime. A brand, in this day and age, probably shouldn't be so lax and frequent in having this in their product promotional videos and edits. Fair enough, the odd one or two over the years - maybe? But for an all white brand with all white riders (as far as I know), it gets a really heavy usage on their soundtracks.

Thoughts?
  • 31 12
 @DirtyDee: you have a lot of time on your hands sir...
  • 12 2
 @DirtyDee: good take. He was made an example of. The edits don’t help his cause that’s for sure. I bet there was no bad intent in the edits, but it makes people wonder. And as Newt Gingrich famously said…perception is greater than reality. He messed up bad, I’m surprised it took this long for the sponsors to bail honestly.
  • 13 34
flag mosierman (Jul 30, 2021 at 18:06) (Below Threshold)
 @DirtyDee: If, as a white person, you cant listen to rap music without repeating the word, then maybe you just shouldnt listen to rap music.
  • 13 2
 @EnduroManiac: Yes correct, not buying the Muck off brand anymore, you could make a mistake, or you can cotinusly doing big mistakes, a little bit of criterium. We never said anityng with the stereotype of the Mexican down with the helmet for years, and that was racism too. A little bit less cristal in the new generations.
  • 13 27
flag mosierman (Jul 30, 2021 at 18:11) (Below Threshold)
 @EnduroManiac: If you, as a white person, cant listen to rap music without repating the word, then maybe you just shouldnt listen to rap music,

I'm not sure why listening to black artist use the word automatically entitles you to be able to use it.

Do you really not understand it or are you just trolling?
  • 4 2
 @vjunior21: They pulled the sponsorship of Commencal 21 - the team managers team. But still sponsoring the Muc-Off Commencal team (which Amaury rides for). Its pretty much the biggest slap on the wrist ever.
  • 41 6
 @DirtyDee: I think we're all missing the forest for the trees here. Does intent not matter in cases like this? Like I just don't see who, if anyone, was actually harmed by his post.

Say what you will about a brands decision to mix explicit tracks into their edits. But I can't help but wonder how that isn't seen as anything but a predominately young, white male dominated sport embracing hip hop/rap music. There's nothing racist about that. If anything it's cultural transmission which, in theory, is how you bring people together through some common shared interest.
  • 2 0
 @SATN-XC: agreed, and well said.
  • 5 12
flag dirtdiggler (Jul 30, 2021 at 18:47) (Below Threshold)
 @cvoc: No not everyone. But, Amaury is not living off the grid without access to TV, internet or education. I don't expect him to know much about U.S. history or politics but he's grown man who travels the world. He should know/learn some BASIC knowledge about what's considered offensive in certain countries he visits.
  • 2 1
 @snl1200: well said.
  • 20 20
 @EnduroManiac: because a black person is trying to own the word and change the narrative. It is a dehumanizing term from slavery and segregation. Key is those who are the targets of the word get to determine what agency they hav in using. As a white dude, I would NEVER consider using the word, even in jest with my black friends. I just wouldn't go there. I get it, you are Swiss and unless you have lived in the US and really experience the racist BS we have here, you won't get it. The n-word is a big deal and is definitely not just a word. I am sure Amaury was just trying to be silly and play up social media with rap culture and didn't really think this through. Pretty sure he feels like crap as well. Perhaps next time, he or anyone else will use Google first to understand the meaning of a word before going all in.
  • 7 16
flag professed (Jul 30, 2021 at 19:23) (Below Threshold)
 @EnduroManiac: the French were also early slave traders taking Africans to the Anericas. Whilst I think its an overreaction by Muk Off some education on the mistreatment and ongoing human rights abuses of Aftrican-Americans would be valuable to everyone, not just AP
  • 6 4
 I wouldn't say this was stupid, just because it's cultural and AP is just not stupid, plus why use a hateful word like stupid, when the whole point is to help make the world more peaceful. AP is the man, I'm sure he will live and learn from this
  • 7 2
 @MikeyMT: remember when Newt was impeaching Clinton while having an affair himself?
  • 8 1
 @EnduroManiac: musician, in general, aren’t good examples of good role models…they’re often uneducated, self-centered, and quite naive. My brother-in-law, niece, and nephew are black…they don’t use the N word! I’m an AP fan…I hope this all works out.
  • 13 2
 @DirtyDee: all that dirty slang in their edits? Hmmmm........ Looks to me like his post was par for the course. I think cussing music is vulgar and unattractive and mute it when i watch edits with it. I also find Muc Off advertising to be tasteless. This isnt Nascar. So, the half naked women picture selling product is chastising the cussing music edit rider for........., cussing. I dont agree with any of it. Its all "dumb". Not that its any of my business anyway. I dont buy either product. Now i never will. Not for any other reason than i just wasted 10 minutes reading pinkbike comments on the subject. Besides..., my money doesnt mean any more to them than the situation at hand means to me.
  • 5 5
 people still use that word to this very day. get a clue dude. it’s offensive as hell. @Mafs:
  • 5 9
flag sylwhistler (Jul 30, 2021 at 21:29) (Below Threshold)
 @alexhyland: don’t feel to bad for them, they’ll be fine. Regardless of intent if you hurt someone with words or actions, you still hurt someone. Outcome matters. And it is essential look at such events through the lens of those who are hurt.
  • 11 8
 @alexhyland: alternative to ignorance? White centered views, privileged, famous with a sense of invulnerability?

Someone can say and do racist things without being a “racist” (i.e. believing that humans are divided in different races with some superior to others).

I think whites (I am white) need to stop losing our shits when called out for racism.
Better to tell someone (you care about) what you said/did was racist than labelling them as a whole racist because most whites will freak out when called racist and disengage leaving no opportunity to really address what they did/said and grow (in a positive way).
  • 6 0
 @EnduroManiac: Not only a white guy, but a white from a totally separate culture and language.
That's worth factoring in.
  • 3 0
 @snl1200: How do you feel about the word bastard?
  • 8 0
 @EnduroManiac: "Spitting on the sidewalk is a $500 fine vomiting is FREE!"


- George Carlin
  • 1 1
 @Rokcore: it's like you didn't really comprehend what he wrote.
  • 11 4
 @snl1200: This sums it up very well. @EnduroManiac It’s also worth pointing out that just because the n-word is used in rap songs, it absolutely does not mean that all black people are okay with it being used in that context either at all. Furthermore, rap artists are not the appointed ambassadors of all black people, despite what popular culture and stereotyping has led a lot of the world to believe. Their normalisation of the word to “take ownership back of it” or whatever BS reason they have for continually using it simply does not wash with a lot of black communities outside of the US. As the above comment from @snl2000 mentions, the word has been used to imply that one race was inferior or lesser than another for generations and it is still weaponised against plenty of black people to this day so regardless of whether it was intended or not, or it’s use was intended to cause harm or not, it still does. At the very least, Amaury Pierron’s actions were naive and stupid given the position of responsibility he has as a sponsored rider with a public platform (and aspirational status to younger riders). At worst, it contributes towards the unnecessary propagation and normalisation of a hurtful and derogatory term that quite frankly needs to disappear from use all round.
  • 8 8
 @Mafs: You're 100% right.
But it's easier for woke Anglophones to challenge you than challenge themselves and their social norms. They are cowards in this way.
  • 34 13
 Americans, who built their financial power on slavery, shouting at a French guy who used a banned word, while recording an insta story with his black friend. That's completely hilarious. But I understand it, this is the easiest thing to do to fool yourselves into thinking that you are somehow compensating for all the shit your ancestors did to all native nations. Hope you are all in a good mood...
  • 5 6
 @Mafs: 1) it’s still used as an offensive term to this day 2) it may be used “in the hood” as you describe but not all black people live in hoods, or in America 3) plenty of people take issue with black people saying it too. A lot of people (black people included) are brought up with that word being simply unacceptable to use and music/pop culture/people that use it not being allowed in the house 4) as I mentioned in a comment further down below, rappers are not the ambassadors of all black people. 5) you talk about bandwagon in over a bad word without the precursor of the word actually being racist being the real problem. That’s not a perspective shared by the majority of people that have been subjected to abuse using the n word (again - a reminder that just because America is the most visible black culture in pop culture around the world, it’s not the only place that matters when it comes to conversations about racism). The use of such words hurts either way and needs to just disappear from casual use all round when used in its non-Spanish/Portuguese word context 6) it’s well known that the word derives from negro in Spanish/Portuguese. Nobody is denying that. That doesn’t take anything away from the fact that it was adapted and turned into a derogatory word in non-Spanish/Portuguese cultures for centuries after to demean others though. Words can sound like other words and become adapted over time to have completely different meanings or intents. Example: the French word “retard” meaning to delay. It’s a similar meaning in English (delay or hold back in terms of progress or development) as it is etymologically derived from the French word. The word however has since become adopted as a derogatory term when directed at those with disabilities in modern lexicon and it simply wouldn’t be acceptable whatsoever in any way to call someone a retard due to physical or mental impairment as the implication would be that they are “lesser than”.
  • 12 17
flag Thirty3 (Jul 30, 2021 at 22:52) (Below Threshold)
 Hey .. only white people can be biggits, racists, homophobs and so forth. Only white people and nobody else. Reverse racism is only white people being paranoid karens and kens.
  • 19 5
 @Thirty3: There is no such thing as “reverse racism,” there is only racism and not racism.
  • 24 3
 Wait. This is completely chicken shit by muc off. They drop their sponsorship of the satellite team but not Pierron’s team? Did they just want to save some dough? Pretty pathetic posturing.
  • 11 11
 But don't you know only white people are and can be racist. Everything else said is truth to power.
  • 10 4
 @thustlewhumber:

Im learning fast here but that sounds a bit risky for a white guy in 2021. In a moment of madness I could slip up and sing along. Heaven forbid accidentally from outside my bedroom. Next thing I’m away on a course on the history of slavery. Which is kind of what i was getting from listening to black artists for the last 40 years. Rather going to bang on with the Dire Straits for a few more years and wait for this to die down.
  • 3 3
 @endurogan: respectfully, it never was acceptable to make such comments. Only difference is none whites have always cared and those white individuals who are happy to make such comments finally woke up a few years ago. No offence to you meant by that btw
  • 11 2
 @snl1200: If you want to stop a word being used then probably a good idea of you don’t use it excessively yourself don't you think?
  • 1 3
 @alexhyland: Why are getting the Nazis involved?
  • 7 5
 Over/under, how many black and/or brown folks commenting on this... survey of all the white knights out there
  • 1 1
 @alexhyland: there French mind
  • 43 5
 @lkubica: The USA are completely hypocritic about that subject, but I remind you that France also has a super heavy past about slavery. My country has been even worse than the US. Read history books about that, it's a total abomination.
Beside this, this story is a storm in a glass of water. Amaury has nothing to reproach to himself.
Muck off on the other hand can f*uck off. I hate their paternalist behavior which is even more immature than Amaury's harmless one.
  • 3 0
 @jimmythehat: haha I say Nazi in the broad sense to mean "actual card carrying racist", as opposed to "actual member of the National Socialist Party".
  • 23 3
 @cvoc: this expansion of US culture and laws to foreign nations has been going on for too long. Such as Facebook censorship of content because it does not comply with US laws.
  • 2 12
flag timbud (Jul 31, 2021 at 0:55) (Below Threshold)
 Just to make it clear for everyone here: It is not ok for anyone the N word. Even coloured people, purely because it encourages poorly educated and thick white people (yes that includes AP) to use it to.
So what if it was accepted a few years ago. Society is progressing, growing and moving on. If you don’t like it go back to where you came from (dust…we all came from dust).
  • 4 1
 @blowmyfuse: best comment here
  • 1 0
 @alexhyland: Hardly helpful though is it in the context of this, one could assume you are making a direct comparison between this and genocide
  • 4 1
 @arna86: Yours is the only comment required on this, they own the word so can use as they please is complete nonsense.
  • 10 5
 @Hayek: I also believe there were a lot of Muc-off riders throwing shade and being quite disrespectful to Kate Weatherly when she podiumed. So there line seems to be objectify women you're ok, disrespect the LGBTQ community you're ok but racism is what gets you fired. Seems a lot like Muc-off is trying to look good with the easy PR win here.
  • 10 4
 @zoobab2: giving a big old pass on the history of our own country, aren’t we? I guess you were skipping school when they taught about Leopold II and the Congo? Maybe I forgot when Belgium returned to the Congolese all the money made with rubber and the hands and feet that were chopped in the process of building modern Belgium. I’m only saying this because you decided to bundle together all ‘Americans’ and of all places on a MTB website (I know PB is Canadian), an expression of the oh so pervasive ‘American’ culture, how brave of you! And since I am actually Italian I’d also like to remind you of how much you Belgians (all of you) have loved us (all of us) through history. Or we’ve collectively decided to set selectively variable cut off dates for genocide and racial discrimination depending on who’s committing it?
  • 28 3
 Stupid? Maybe….

But what right does MucOff have for being offended? Best I can tell, it’s a white run company with no sponsored black athletes… Maybe we should let the folks who have a legitimate reason to possibly be offended decide whether or not to be offended. My guess is it would be a mixed bag….

MucOff is clearly using this as a PR move and riding on the wave of SJW nonsense to higher corporate profits. They are easily as guilty of insensitivity and exploitation as AP.

Again, probably not the best thing to post, but let’s see this for what it is.
  • 2 6
flag stubs179 (Jul 31, 2021 at 4:45) (Below Threshold)
 @DirtyDee: While your point is valid and Muc-Off should really take a look at what they are posting themselves on social media, your post is definitely gaslighting on the situation. Systemic racism and the normalization of derogatory slag used by anyone needs to be brought out as teaching moments. So yes, Muc-Off needs to take a deep look at themselves but that doesn't change the AP situation. Making him take a class is a very good thing and hopefully he goes at it with an open mind!
  • 18 1
 @timbud: "coloured" people? careful, someone will get offended with that word too.
  • 3 0
 @jimmythehat: not if you read the comments I made. I think that you would have to be pretty wilfully misreading what I wrote if that's what you're taking away.
  • 5 5
 @serviceguy: Not sure who it was commenting but anyone who comes from a European country with any sort of colonial past wants to have a good look at their own history before talking about how slavery is an American problem, holy shit lol
  • 4 0
 @DirtyDee: Indeed, they should use garage or alt rock instead for instance.
Metal is too fast for MTB edits but garage rock would do the trick.

Also there are lots of nazis in Asia, they even have temples adorned with svastika. We should start a war.
  • 11 0
 pretty much every represented country on here has a dark past. Which makes pretty much every one on here pointing fingers at other countries...a fucking hypocrite.
  • 7 0
 No one understands it, because it doesn’t make sense on an equality level. I can say this word and glorify it and you can never say it, because its bad and racist .... unless I say it, then its good, and a term of endearment.@EnduroManiac:
  • 5 0
 @DirtyDee: well said. There does seem to be a level of hypocrisy going on here especially as AP still rides for muc-off and their logos will still be all over his race kit
  • 3 2
 @alexhyland: Of course I read your comments, you said that if someone is a racist then they are Nazi, you failed to understand the difference between racism on many different levels to that of white supremacy, genocide etc.
  • 1 0
 @Hayek: I mean that was just hot though
  • 8 0
 @jimmythehat: just for your info Nazi didn’t proclaim white supremacy but German race supremacy… among many other things
  • 1 2
 @norfiril: Depends in what era you are talking about so not technically correct
  • 5 0
 @slow-af-rider: yep. whatever term is used at least one person will make it their objective to be offended
  • 7 0
 @Ds1234: you might think it's trivial, butthe impact of the word is not well understood everywhere, specially in non english speaking countries.. the amount of fire the word sparks it's not well understood, and I thing this reaction is fired up out of proportions.. too judgemental and TMZish.. Im from a 3rd world country , being black is as cool as blond or latino or asian.. as a good local band used to sing..
  • 5 1
 @Hayek: rules for thee, not for me. Don’t bow down to the woke mob, it’s never enough.
  • 4 1
 Meanwhile on Muc Off Instagram story, 3 white kids making monkey sounds
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse: Amen brother. Well said.
  • 8 0
 @alexhyland: exactly, and to be honest slavery was (and still is) a worldwide problem inherent to human nature (unfortunately), as all Europeans, even Native Americans had slaves, so did the Aztecs, Incas, Mayas as well as the Japanese, Chinese and Indians and on to the Ashantis, Zulus etc. We should all put it behind our back, not forget how awful we can and have been as human beings, and not for a second believe we are better than anybody else. That would be a good start for me.
A wise person said once that if we where to bring to the public square all our problems to spilt them equally with everybody else, we would all go back home happy to carry on with our own problems. I often found this to be very true, and I have my share of problems.
  • 1 0
 @alexhyland: Sounds like they should probably take that course on offer by Commencal.
  • 1 1
 @EnduroManiac: that's correct @EnduroManiac. One of those actions is reflection/expression, the other is imitation.
  • 2 0
 @jimmythehat: alright mate, you crack on
  • 3 0
 I meant stoner rock, not garage.
  • 11 3
 @blowmyfuse: yeah this is such a shitty move. I've been trying to be far more conscious with where I spend my money. One thing I can say for certain is I won't be purchasing a single muc off product any time soon. Not supporting this bs. The guy apologized, whether you still hate him or support him, that's it. All the public shaming and re-education is ridiculous. Seems history just keeps repeating itself.
  • 3 3
 @lkubica: "who built their financial power on slavery." Bullshit.
  • 6 8
 @EnduroManiac: Your point is spot on, but you're also resident in a free-democratic nation, the new land (USA and Canada) created their own world and now everyone shall obey their laws...
Thanks to the USA politics who were the creators of this non-sense talkin', everyone now should erase lots of world from the dictionary/vocabulary. The non-social media is the next player to push things up to the next level.

Sir George Carlin is now all smiles - I told ya, u filty f*ckrS

Pierron did absolutely nothing wrong, it is all the rest of the crap out there - dirty bastards, commercial interest, fat sponsors hungry for popularity, and stupid social typing souls. As another Nigga used to sang back in the day - F 'em All
  • 5 0
 @blowmyfuse: @hayek: agree. Rapha did the same thing with some athletes who rode for a team they sponsored about a year ago. Burnt everyone rather than taking the chance to build understanding or appreciation through education and demonstration.
They ‘champion’ diversity, but won’t invest in tolerance; celebrate character-growth but only support the end result.
  • 3 4
 @cvoc: if he is really a rap fan he probabaly came across some american culture. The fact that at least two people thought it was a good idea to share this make it even less likely that it was a clueless mistake..
  • 2 0
 @endurogan: Our infantile Prime Minister as well...
  • 1 0
 @vjunior21: I am puzzled as well
  • 2 0
 @danstonQ: on point
  • 2 1
 @Hayek: BEST COMMENT SO FAR. Touché Muc Off
  • 8 14
flag lloydee12 (Aug 1, 2021 at 1:25) (Below Threshold)
 @EnduroManiac: Let me try to explain simply.
White people enslaved black people and used the word Ni**er as a way to denigrate and humiliate black people.
Black people decided to take the word, change it slightly and use it as a term of love or endearment towards each other. It's been used in black culture to take the hateful power away from the oppression of the white slave owners.
It's not a kind word for a white person to say to a black person. We say it differently to each other but because it's getting do misused we are using it less and less. Some artists still use it because it's their art form and they're choice.
If you're white, you should understand what you're saying if you say it to a black person whether quoting a song or otherwise.
I hope this helps. Peace ✌
  • 16 4
 @doublel12: your statement assumes we are all responsible for the sins of our ancestors. I'm white and I've never enslaved anyone. I don't like slavery I like mountain biking. But I must repent because we are all responsible for the sins of whatever group fits at any given moment. I totally understand there is sensitivity needed, but I don't like the premise of your identity politics game.
  • 9 0
 @DirtyDee:
Muck-Off is celebrating drug culture with their newest ad. youtu.be/AZJyiOvB0ak . So that is ok apparently. Woke logic is strange.
  • 6 0
 @Aptlynamed: , yes woke/SJW/CRT/intersectional feminism has it's own logic, which similar to other ideologies and religions is not internal coherent at all. So no surprise there.

Racism sexism etc still exist. However the claims about its overarching nature including systemic racism are just not backed up with evidence ( and no standpoint epistemology does not proof anything about group or society level phenomenons)
  • 1 0
 @Juuhan: They were careful not to portray any people of color transporting or making drugs, because that would be very bad.
  • 3 1
 @Aptlynamed: to be hinest where i am all the drug dealers are white folks in middle class england you can gobto parties now where all the dictors have done a few lines of charlie
  • 3 2
 @ccs321: He's not saying you have to repent, he's saying probably don't use the n-bomb if you're white.

It's good to see that people don't like identity politics, if that had been the case hundreds of years ago maybe we could avoid this mess.
  • 4 4
 @timbud: dude, you just used the term colored people when talking against being racist. Pretty sure that term is right up there on the no no list.
  • 2 0
 @Dixonm: yeah tell me about. All the nEggers on my post just prove my point further.

Curious though, is there a term that wouldn’t cause offence to someone (even when used un a positive way)?
Thats a genuine question btw
  • 2 0
 Yeah seemed pretty dumb and not funny
  • 3 6
 @EnduroManiac: yeah but amauery isn’t a black rapper he’s a professional sponsored paid athelte acting like a jackass instead of a role model
  • 2 1
 @timbud: I think you're just supposed to say black now as African American has become offensive in the last couple years.
  • 1 0
 @xTwoSnakesx: what kinda circle talk is that?
  • 3 3
 @ccs321: yep. Thats it right there. NONE of us own, have ever owned, KNOW anyone that owns, or KNOWS anyone that has ever known anyone that knows anyone who has EVER owned a slave. EVER. Not today. The only slave owners are the elites that own trafficked humans. They are the ones who better give themselves up as liars and filthy human beings. They are also the ones blaming regular, non slave owners for the very crimes they are currently commiting.
  • 2 0
 @FaceplantMC: Sorry man, go work in the middle east for a few years... you'll know someone then
  • 2 0
 @timbud: yeah, not hard to go a step further and say well, we might not own slaves, but I doubt there are many people in the west who don't benefit from indentured workers. OT here really, and I don't know what I should be doing about it, but sadly true nonetheless.
  • 1 1
 @FaceplantMC: not sure theres people out there on zero hour contracts and illegals working with no rights whatsoever whilst its not directly slavery theres a very thin line
  • 3 0
 @timbud: no if you say well done to someone these days your a patronising c..t even ive come across it you say well done good job and someone goes did i ask for your opinion , reality is well no they didnt these are usually the same people who go online later on and whine no f*cker loves them
  • 1 3
 @DirtyDee: The problem is use of "n----tion". It's racist slang.. act of becoming a n--ger.
  • 2 0
 @timbud: but i dont work in the middle east. I work here. Here is where i am told these things.
  • 5 1
 @Hayek: so damn true. As monster and marzocchi.
Amaury looks 100% legit and let's just stop this absurd thing. Im sure he did not mean to be rude. Just loosen up for ducks sake and listen to some katt williams pimpin da shiettt
  • 1 0
 @ReeferSouthrland: just give amaury some dr. Greenthumb
  • 1 0
 @donpinpon29: to be fair if you look at the demographic monster sell to a scantily clad woman is not going to garner many objections
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: did not understand one damn word of that mate haha please elaborate and so be it
  • 1 0
 @EnduroManiac: You are so right
  • 4 4
 His job is to win races, not to be a role model
  • 2 0
 @jimmythehat: how is that? Because they said it pretty clear as it was the reason (excuse) for invading Poland (with the USSR), annex Austria, planning for invading Switzerland, taking over Hungary… it’s stated on the Mein Kampf, on the propaganda…

I would agree with you if we were talking about collectivism and the true working class socialism speech but not on this issue
  • 3 2
 @vegankidd: I’d say it’s def both, they can’t sponsor you if your a total jackass
  • 2 1
 @donpinpon29: and the course he should take is a better full inmersion english month hahaha... these kids hone their english watching and listening bad music
  • 2 0
 @vegankidd: partially agree.. my 9&7 yo kids look up to all these guys.. and my job is to tell them they are fantastic on a bike, and that is the only thing they need to look up to in them... I might be useless but yes, they dont need to be role models.. Im fine with that
  • 6 5
 @EnduroManiac: The fact that ANY rapper throws out the word "n*gger" does not make it right for ANYONE to use it in any context. I think a lot of people are forgetting where the word comes from and how it has been used in the past way before rap even began. People banging on about how black rappers use the word need to take a step back and see the full picture.

With no disrespect intended and you are asking for an explanation, I would suggest you educate yourself (as I have done myself with regards to the subject matter) as to it's origins.
  • 1 0
 @Ds1234: Bobnlarry knows what the word means. Why is he not being cancelled? Don't say it's context, apparently that counts for nothing.
  • 5 0
 @alexhyland: I agree. What happened to giving people 2nd chances? The sponsorship withdrawal seems a little harsh. For sure this will be a lesson for Amaury and for sure this was unacceptable - my opinion is muc-off should stick with them and support him through the process not immediately drop him to protect their brand.
  • 1 1
 @snl1200: Very well put.
  • 1 0
 @Obiwankenoob: Prof d’histoire?
  • 1 0
 @FlorentLG: not really no, lol
  • 11 1
 @DirtyDee: it perplexes me that the woke crowd seemingly have zero issue with the word being used in rap by Bobnlarry and other artists, but fans (of a different race) of said artist can't use the same lingo (in the same context) or share lyrics in support of the music/artist.

Personally, I think the music's utter grabage, but that's purely an opinion.

If you want to have intellectual consistency, you need to oppose the use of the word outright, by anyone. I'm not suggesting that should be the case, I don't have an issue with rappers using it in the context that they do, but I have the same standpoint if a fan (even of different race) uses it *in that same contex as the rapper*, it does not make them racist. If you think that it does, then that same logic should lead you to deduce that the rapper is racist too. You can't have different rules for people of different races - that is apartheid, that is racism.
  • 2 8
flag timbud (Aug 2, 2021 at 8:14) (Below Threshold)
 @Hellchops: you’re misunderstanding racism there.
You can’t be racist towards someone of the same ethnicity. For example if i called you “Northern White Trash”, it is not racist just bloody rude.
Insulting someone of a different ethnicity/origin/country with a term related to that is racism. Full Stop.
A black rapper isn’t being racist when he/she calls another black person “n****r”. Arguably a bit stupid for it because it glamourises the term and allows people people that are not black (or from Nigeria) to think its ok and justify their own use of it.
There is no “same context” unless you share the ethicity/race/origin(etc).
www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance
It’s not woke, it’s just a fact
  • 11 0
 @timbud:
The fact is that AP didn't call anybody the 'n' work. He just sang along with the lyrics of a song. So how can this ever be racist? You at least have to direct you slur at someone (or a group of people) to be racist. He however didn't do this.
  • 6 0
 @timbud: I grew up in Apartheid South Africa, I went to school where children of colour were not permitted - thankfully, that change happenend (during my school time). I understand racism all too well.

I agree that if a black rapper uses the term in lyrics that it isn't racism, of course it isn't. But I have little doubt that it wasn't being used in a racist sense by AP or his manager. I don't deny that they were foolish in sharing what they did, only because it shows naivity to the times we live in. But naive foolishness is not the same as racism. My point is that, if you're truly not racist then you should not treat people differently based on their enthnicity. I don't listen to rap, but I don't have an issue with it or the language they use - it's the business of the artist/s and their fans, not mine. It feels like you'd be okay with white people listening to rap, alongside black fans, but the white fans can't repeat the lyrics, that level of partisanship is staggering.

Do you think black rappers would find it okay for only black fans to sing along to or appreciate their lyrics? Of course not!

There's no need to lose all common sense in tyring to go beyond reason to display that you're anti-racist.

Also, racism towards people of the same colour is not a myth.
  • 4 6
 @Hellchops: Regardless of how they say it, the meaning is all about perception. If it's perceived as racist by the audience, it doesn't matter what the initial intent was. The best way for it to not offend someone is to just not use the word. plain and simple.
  • 4 2
 Is there any other word in any language that can be used by a specific group to insult anyone they want but cannot be used by anyone else in any other group for any reason?
  • 4 2
 @cvoc: I disagree, when AP used the term "N-ggeration" on his post. That is real racist slang term... the act of becoming a N-gger. That is not the same as using the term N-gga (word ending "a" vs "er") as you hear or what other blacks have repurpose. It has different context/meaning, if ends with "a".
  • 3 0
 @timbud: You can are racist every single time you make differences based on the race. No more and no less than that.

Discrimination, persecution, empowerment... differences on criteria affecting rights and liberties of action based on skin color is just racism (even if the consequences are different).

Trying to complicate a very simple (and sad) issue to fit a wrong speech is just lying.
  • 2 3
 @Hellchops: I was born in and grew up in India and there were plenty of race issues caused by decades of British rule. You don't hear about the slavery in India as it's been kept out of what is taught in schools.

Can white fans sing alongside black fans? That's a tough one and I don't really have an answer that's fair. But because so many white folk are "naive and foolish" it's almost better just to have super clear rule.
I totally agree that AP probably isn't racist, but that doesn't excuse what he did, as it has been perceived as racist. And he'll just have to deal with the consequences whether any of us agree about it or not.
That said as a white person you(we) don't get to decide whether the use of n****r is racist or not, because it's a term that no one will ever use against you. That was part of the issue with Aparthied, white folk deciding what should happen to black folk.

To use an extreme example if you heard of someone who had been caught committing murder or rape (of any other crime that comes with a life sentence), no one would excuse them as naive or foolish. In this day and age there is no excuse not to know.

"Also, racism towards people of the same colour is not a myth."
Agreed. That is a good point.
Do you think things like the Scottish/English racism will ever become an actual issue?

[Personally I just prefer to use terms that offended everyone collectively. It's much easier that way.
Actually the only group of people you can get away with defaming are Christians. Everyone else has faught back to make it unacceptable and/or illegal].
  • 5 1
 @danielfloyd: 'If it's perceived as racist by the audience, it doesn't matter what the initial intent was.' I disagree entirely. Society as a whole should deem what is reasonable or not, common law normally sorts this out for us in western societies. If someone genuinely doesn't mean something in a racist way, but it's perceived as such, they should be given the opportunity to explain themselves and apologise.

You cannot simply say that, regardless of how unreasonable it may be, that the final word sits entirely with the 'victim'. That is not to say we should not listen to victims, but we need reason to help us ensure we're reacting in an appropriate manner.

I agree with your last statement, 'The best way for it to not offend someone is to just not use the word. plain and simple.' - that would make things much simpler. But then it must not be used by anyone, in any context. If you slice it any other way, you're doing exactly what you think you're standing up against, that is treating someone differently based on their ethnicity.
  • 3 3
 @timbud: is there a word in India only one group can say to insult each other but no one else can?
  • 2 0
 @blowmyfuse: too many dialects and gods.
  • 2 0
 this has to be like one of the longest threads of all time
  • 8 0
 For real though. Regarless of the semantics: Be kind to each other - Its not hard, and everyone is learning. Now, let's go ride bikes!
  • 2 0
 @Hellchops: i can see it being funny at a concert when all the white kids cant sing along
  • 2 1
 @EnduroManiac: We live in a modern world, he could have good led it if in doubt. He knew full well what he was doing and got caught out.
  • 3 1
 @timbud: Your response is inside out backwards. You say because you share an ethnicity, that you refer to them as NWT absolves you of a racist attitude but then go on to say "Insulting someone of a different ethnicity/ ORIGIN/ COUNTRY with a term related to that is racism". Is it your logic that a person from England could never feel these things about a person from Scotland or say Ireland?
I seriously question your credentials for assessing such judgement upon others since you clearly have no clue how to even define the word or give examples that even make sense. Like most on here casting aspersions based on their limited experience and actual knowledge, your points are continuously without merit and mostly just wrong.
  • 1 3
 @tobius: that was an example and I didn't say it absolves me or anyone of anything. Don't try to twist it to suit your own opinion. Go on and read my posts fully and don't just nitpick bits.

Credentials? If you want to try and be smart you'll need to provide your own notarised credentials before you use that argument against anyone. No one here is qualified to "assess such judgment" you giant muppet. Everyone is here sharing their own opinion in the discussion, and there's one or two like you that seem to have personal issues that are trying to pointlessly assert themselves above everyone else. Without actually adding anything to the topic. That's how it all starts: the bullshit opinion that you are better and know more than others.
  • 2 2
 @timbud: Not at all. In fact I'd say you are trying to sound smart and educated as well as experienced but your continued posts full of wind say otherwise. Case in point, the one detail I picked out as a major argument to bolster your position. It in itself was telling enough that one can avoid the bulk of your retorts and exclamations as that of just an opinionated person. I pointed out a flaw in your posted logic. I do not need to preface my statements with credentials as I am not continuously replying with verbose nonsense. Perhaps you should read your posts from the eyes of others you may see things differently. Perhaps it is you pointlessly asserting yourself above others which is why you respond in such a defensive, aggressive way.
  • 1 2
 @tobius: the hypocrisy in you post is laughable chap.
You use a huge amount of words and say absolutely nothing.
Maybe try local politics
  • 2 2
 @timbud: Ha but your toxic vile says mountains about you and your opinion. Whos the muppet here? Go bully someone else with your vitriol. You have no clue what you are spewing but want to attack others for asking about your flawed view and wrong opinions. Can't take the critique? Too sensitive? Your opinions are uneducated and full of emotion. Change your wad already.
  • 1 2
 @timbud: Take another dig timbud......show your colours to us all please.....
  • 2 1
 @tobius: lol
You have no clue who I am and know nothing about my “credentials”. You cannot prove or disprove anything regarding that.
You haven’t fully read all my post and have taken one part and used just that… without bothering to read further down to see that i’d already agreed about it with someone else in this thread.

No one’s bullying anyone here, don’t be so dramatic.
Everyone here is allowed to share opinions and if you can’t handle that someone else has a different one to your own it says far more about you than anyone else here. Regardless of your self certified diamond level credentials. tup

Maybe try adding you own opinion to the actual topic.
  • 3 1
 @timbud: I've read your posts. I've learned plenty about you from ONE single response to me. You are not capable of meaningful conversation with anyone with a differing viewpoint. Your opinions are yours and yours only and you spread those unfounded opinions like seagulls shit. You are more interested in TELLING people what YOU think vs asking and understanding what they or others think. You profess a lot of things like you are an authority but when asked for some form of reference to back your passionate POV you behave like a typical SJW by calling me names and attacking me personally. You are projecting all the things you are saying are wrong. Right down to the statement I originally challenged. You are a little boy and need to grow up. Read your posts. You sound like a pirate...aaarrrrggghhhhhh hahaha. Do you have a parrot on your shoulder and an eye patch too??
  • 1 1
 @timbud: Just own the fact you made an ass backwards statement and when asked you reverted to stereotypical attacks. Just admit you cant stand to be challenged by someone who can think clearly and for themselves. Don't be hurt. By having meaningful conversation we can all understand each other a little bit better and you wont have these temper tantrums on a mountain bike website anymore.
  • 1 1
 @tobius: I suggest you go look in the mirror kiddo.
You’re projecting an awful lot of you own faults on to me with your carefully worded and thinly veiled insults.
Yours is just an opinion too and its seems in your arrogance and desire to drag me down your forgetting that.

Time to move on because no one else in this thread wants to read this shit show anymore.
  • 6 4
 @timbud: no, keep going!
  • 4 2
 @timbud: give it a rest will you?? you sound like a 1st grader who spilled his snack on the floor and can't stop crying about it, making up excuses and pointing fingers at people who made you do it. Just move on. This is a MTB website where people come to get hyped about mountain biking. If you can't figure that out, maybe you should move on to a different sport with a less-supportive community.
  • 2 3
 @danielfloyd: bet you wish there was an unsubscribe button don’t you.
Every time someone replies to me i’ll reply back… thats how the game works
  • 3 1
 @timbud: the game of a whiney first grader??
  • 4 3
 "vitriole"
"vile"
"retort"
"verbose"
"aspersions"
"absolves"

@tobius done thow dat whole damn thesauras at one dude on a bike site like we on some Thespian Battlerama!!!
  • 3 6
 @snl1200: Well said.

The fact that it is 2021 and we are still seeing this ignorant "why can black people use that word" question/argument shows that there remains much to learn in regards to context and historical perspective when examining racist actions in society today.
  • 5 1
 @shlotch: it’s all a matter of context and intentions. Seriously guys, use your brain a bit.
  • 3 0
 @blowmyfuse: lol I did think I was arguing with Joey Tribiani for a second
  • 1 0
 @ccs321: no, my statement is just explaining why it might be an offensive thing for 'you' to say a certain word to a race of people. I was simply trying to explain why. Not playing any games and I like mountain biking too so maybe we can ride together some time.
  • 6 0
 Well done people. I'm nominating this thread for a Nobel Prize. You've solved racism.
  • 2 0
 @cliff-huckstable: hahaha so true
  • 5 6
 @EnduroManiac: Because it is a derogatory term that was used by literal slave owners and traders to demean the people of colour they were enslaving you dumb f*ck
  • 3 1
 @neilpritchett: and you did. Got crazy mad on the internet with a username, a pretend personality...not a real person you're gonna see. Ever.

I get it. Been there. Done that.
  • 4 0
 @cliff-huckstable: I just hope that there’s a least 1 post in this thread per day. Then every twat that dared to try and put their opinion into to words will get that notification reminding them just how worthwhile it was.
That paywall can’t come soon enough
  • 2 3
 @blowmyfuse: if you’re going to be a closet racist troll, at least learn how to land insults HAHAHAHA
  • 4 4
 @EnduroManiac: Seriously? Do you think that there's anybody of his age in western societies that does not understand the meaning and implications of using that word?
I am not a native speaker, there's no excuse for that language. That said I hope - and think - that he is probably not racist, just grossly uneducated on the matter. However, there must be consequences otherwise things will never change.
  • 6 1
 @silviodeange: most people outside US with no Twitter account and more than 18 years
  • 1 0
 @serviceguy: if you have to fall back on Leopold Ii to make your point, it means you haven't got one.
  • 2 0
 @jason475: No. It just makes them regressively anachronistic. We don't represent the historical figures who hailed from the same borders. It's a fantastically retarded notion.
  • 1 0
 @cuban-b: PB temporarily banned you for insulting me once. Go away stalker.
  • 2 0
 @timbud: That paywall will filter me outta here pretty quick.
  • 2 4
 @EnduroManiac: Stop hiding behind cultural vagueness and wake the f' up. This isn't some Quentin Tarrantino film from the 90s and he's no gangster. It's real life in 2021.
  • 5 1
 @dave99: I apologize for being able to distinguish when someone is being offensive or not. I will stop using my brain and stick to your dogmatic right-thinking. I thing for a matter of equity between races, we should simply ban this word and erase it from everyone's brain. That is for those who have one.
  • 7 0
 Man...all this argumentative stuff between everyone. So much hate. Light hearted and affable is not how this is going. Feels like a lotttt of people trying to establish how right they are and how wrong someone else is.
  • 1 1
 @timbud:
> Can white fans sing alongside black fans? That's a tough one

The fact you think this is the tough question - speaks volume how bizarre your point of view is.
  • 1 2
 @drib: A bit late to this party.
“a” tough one. Not “the”. Don’t try to change the context.

Yes it is when the song is full of the N word.

But in any other situation, really! Do you actually need that clarified
  • 2 1
 @drib: try it let us know what happens
  • 1 1
 @timbud: Poor attempt of avoiding the point by focusing on "a" vs "the". Bottom line is, you are knowingly or unknowingly promoting racial segregation of the era before the civil rights movement. Shame on you!
  • 1 1
 @Compositepro: No need. From this incident and from timbud "*a* tough question" it is clear what would happen: racists promoting racial segregation would try to destroy my life.
  • 1 1
 @drib: ok then let's just lt every white kid use the N word as much and whenever they like.
I used to think that education is the key but from incidents like AP's we can see that the education isn't that effective.
Restricting the use of a word isn't racial segregation. We can see it's already worked in a lot of places because most people wouldn't dare to use it in public and I'm pretty sure none of them feel segregated because of it.
Or is it that you just don't like rules/laws and see them as something to be fought and broken?!
  • 2 0
 @timbud: "Restricting the use of a word isn't racial segregation."

I didn't say that it is. If my understanding of the incident is correct, the poor guy had no bad intetion and was admiring black rap artist. Now he is the villan.

With time people will become afraid of this kind of backslashes and soon we will have segregated culture based on race.

My point being, the context and intention of the person must be taken into account.

Possible insulting and hurtful terms should be avoided because of the politeness and respect. But once people are scared into avoiding them and once they feel they must tiptoe around certain groups of people - the divisions are created.
  • 1 1
 @drib: Sorry man, but that all happened years ago when they decided it was best that we could no longer say blackboard or whiteboard in schools.

Context is oh so important. I totally agree!
I totally agree that AP meant no harm in what he said but he still said it and the harm has been done (regardless of anyone's opinion on this shithole of a thread). Regardless of whether you find it offensive, some people do. And if you want people to have their own opinion and choices (and not be segregated) you have to accept that at some point you won't like it. And because you've chosen not to like it, you too have created segregation.
  • 3 0
 @timbud: wait, they can't say blackboard or whiteboard in schools? Wow. I never knew that. I asked my daughter who concurred - the teachers call it "the board". But it's not racist to call a whiteboard that when it is in fact a board that has the white colour.
My brother's wife also told us the other day that her 3 year old daughter was taught to sing "Baa baa red sheep" in class. I can only imagine that was to avoid being racist by singing about a black sheep. Strange, because I've never seen a red sheep but I've seen plenty of black ones.
I can understand why people think we're going too far at times.
  • 1 0
 @timbud: I did read your response several time - and I have no idea about what you are talking.

I will finish this discussion with this:

MLK: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. I have a dream today!"
  • 225 24
 So muc off even cleans racism, nice!
  • 8 8
 Best comment of the section. Congratulations!
  • 50 6
 Yup - another brand cynically lining up to show how super woke they are to get attention. Racism sucks, and it's been a part of humanity going a long way back and we should all hope to do better, but brands using it as a vehicle to get attention is repugnant.
  • 1 0
 Well thought out; but how about the name of the brand Muc Off itself ? If I read that, it automatically refers to a certain wellknown, frequently used phrase.
  • 2 2
 @Hyakian: ironically they released a new "mega-edit" within days of this announcement too. Shocker.
  • 136 10
 As a French who lived in US, the N word is not as socially inacceptable over here that it is in the states. Amaury, coming from a small town in the middle of nowhere, did smtg very stupid but he’s miles away to grasp the implications of his words. I hope he is gonna learn form his mistake and be more mindful of others in the futur.
  • 26 5
 I'm pretty sure he's learnt his lesson. Hard way to learn it!
  • 49 6
 I think another 700 comments on this are entirely necessary. Preferably the same ones again and again and again. And again. Everyone actually fully understanding and acknowledging what probably happened and the wider issues at hand will become more likely as we approach infinite comments though. As ever, retail will be the big winner.
  • 8 18
flag spaced (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:40) (Below Threshold)
 I get that he didn't know and I don't think he used with bad intentions but the N word is not socially acceptable anywhere.
  • 7 10
 Agreed, but a pretty godamn weak excuse nonetheless. AP needs to read a thing or two about history. I'm sure his intentions weren't bad but there's no excuse for being that ignorant.
  • 13 2
 @bobbys13: I dunno man. Ignorance is kind of its own excuse right? You can't know what you don't know. From my POV and presumably yours, this is an extreme example, but being just that ignorant is the only explanation other than him being an actual racist with ill intent.
  • 2 3
 I think that's exactly why MucOff asked for him to take an educational program. That's a very clear way for him to learn from his mistake.
  • 9 2
 @spaced: that’s the thing, it’s fine if your black to say it but not if your white. It’s a double standard. Yes I’ve read all the PC shit. I think it’s an offensive term. Problem is some people can use it and it’s fine and others can’t.
  • 2 5
 He is representing some large corporate sponsors in the public eye with worldwide exposure through his sport. If you are on that stage, it's part of the job to know how to represent those corporations to the public. Either his support team didn't properly prepare him for his job or he didn't do his homework. Either way, it's completely unacceptable and some sort of consequence would be expected. Hope he learns something though.
  • 3 5
 @alexhyland: in law, ignorance is no excuse.
  • 6 3
 Dudes been traveling the world for like 10 years now. He's certainly left his small town of France...

He obviously listens to American hip hop and then broadcasts a word, I hope he didn't know the meaning of, around the world on his social media? If you're going to do that maybe learn the meaning?

I'll chalk this absolute stupidity, from one of my favorite riders, up to multiple concussions and a broken back. It better be that... He's had a rough year.
  • 6 1
 @alexhyland: depends lack of education could be seen as ignorance through no ones fault other than not being taught x y or z so it could carry that some people are ignorant through no fault of their own , i read recentley about an african american teacher who also identified as an activist for african american rights who was hauled before the university council for a dsciplinary ? His crime was using the N word in a class and a white kid objected on the behalf of the other kids , ya couldnt make it up
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: I've heard similar stories, but none that I can verify - something along the lines of a black school security guard telling a (presumably black) student to stop calling him "my N-word" and got disciplined or canned. Pretty wild stuff if true.
  • 4 1
 @timbud: fair but we aren't talking law here.
  • 1 3
 @alexhyland: we’re talking about ignorance and racism. You can’t separate them from the laws because you’re trying to excuse someone behaviour
  • 2 2
 @Compositepro: pure David Brent moment.

I was thinking about this word and trying to find an analogy for UK people who don't get what all the fuss is about like me. It's the P-word. It simply isn't said. It was used very offensively in the 80s. I would never say it to anyone. I just would not use the word at all, and I would not rap along to songs that said it.

I guess that's how Americans see the N-word. Best left to be forgotten.
  • 3 0
 @jaame: my Pakistani mates at school/uni said it a lot, but i'm pretty sure I never did. It's as though you know not to. But that's from being close to those people and immersed in their lives and experiences.
  • 2 0
 Actually, a lot of the Indian dudes in the same circle used it quite a lot as well. A marvel of race relations it was in that time and place lol.
  • 145 28
 Can't believe this stupid joke went so far... We are creating a terrible world, and, in a few years, It's going to be late to come back to common sense. Seriously someone on his rigs thinks Amaury is racists? That joke having pb's Focus? Sponsors reacting? Come on!!!
  • 69 8
 You're right. This is a storm in a glass of water. I'd particulary blame Pinbike for relating this, but mostly Muck Off and its paternalist overreaction. Commencal should definitely get rid of that stupid brand.
  • 51 11
 Thank you! The first sane comment I have found. Muc-off joining the woke wars.. forcing him on the old unconscious bias training. Jesus.. What I found astounding is that it clearly wasn't commercial decision from Muc-Off. No ones going to decide not to buy Muc-Off because of a story Amaury Pierron once posted to his Instagram. This is nothing but virtue signaling and they should keeps their wokeness to themselves and stick to creating cleaning products,. Using their name to jam it down ours and Amaury throat, they should be ashamed.. Its clear that he isn't racist. We are creating a terrible world, I bet literally no one was offended apart from the virtue signaling brigade. I will never to the day I die buy another Muc-Off product.

MLK - "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

HOW ABOUT WE STOP MAKING EVERYTHING ABOUT THE COLOUR OF PEOPLES SKIN
  • 3 0
 @ccs321: jesus ? , you cant bring deity into this shit too religion and race in a topic the rage will be apopleptic
  • 6 2
 @ccs321: oh and i have to agree it seems us white folks just want to be on the right side of everything to show support for any cause these days
  • 23 3
 @ccs321: The irony is Muc-off may end up actually losing sales due to this. Hard to feel sorry for them if that does happen, I feel very uneasy about their real motivation for this move.
  • 15 26
flag jayacheess (Jul 31, 2021 at 10:14) (Below Threshold)
 @ccs321: "HOW ABOUT WE STOP MAKING EVERYTHING ABOUT THE COLOUR OF PEOPLES SKIN"

The number one refrain of those who refuse to accept and address the ongoing issues with systemic racism. You want to forget about colour because it would mean you don't have to think about the problems minorities deal with every day. It's a request for a return to the status quo that benefits you.

We can forget about colour only when there is a equality and equity in our power structures and systems of authority.
  • 11 1
 @ccs321: it may not have started off as a commercial decision but after this I'll never be buying any muc off products or ever recommending them. I'd love to see some other brands drop muc off after this little stunt but unfortunately 99% are scared to say what they really think these days. Just give it some time and common sense will be the new counter culture.
  • 15 3
 @jayacheess: "It's a request for a return to the status quo that benefits you"

How dare you make that assumption. I know it fits your framework - "Me bad you good", but i'm afraid you're off the mark.

Your point seems to be that MLK was wrong, and that we should not in fact forget about colour? But of course, you are operating on a much higher level of virtue.

You should wash your mouth out using the word equity, you can only achieve equity with tyranny my friend.
  • 12 1
 Clearly, Amaury really, really liking hip hop music, emulating the rap artists, and repeating/singing the words of the songs means he is racist against colored people. The guy apologized and will learn from his ignorant mistake for sure. People get off their "holier than thou" soapbox and move on.
  • 6 13
flag jayacheess (Jul 31, 2021 at 15:14) (Below Threshold)
 @ccs321: To the those already enjoying privilege, equality looks a lot like tyranny.
  • 6 1
 @DylanH93: generally I am against brands being political at all. But I can't say I wouldn't be interested to see what would happen if another brand did do something to oppose muc-off. Overall I think they should just stick to doing what they do, which in this case is create products. I do belive you are right though and the counter culture will come with enough time. The world will restablize and muc-off will probably continue virtue signaling which ever way the wind is blowing.
  • 12 2
 @jayacheess: I said equity not equality and equity looks like tyranny to everybody, regardless of their level of "privilege".
  • 3 15
flag jayacheess (Jul 31, 2021 at 16:19) (Below Threshold)
 @ccs321: Examples of tyrannical equity?
  • 12 2
 @jayacheess: Take your pick from history, there have been plenty of totalitarian leftist led states. That's the only way you force equity, and it's a path stained with blood.
  • 4 1
 @jayacheess: . Please bring up solid evidence about systemic racism in a particular matter and then we can fix it.

This is how liberal democracies have worked successfully last 150 or so years in making thing constantly better .
  • 9 1
 @Juuhan: Exactly right, imagine living one of the few countries in the world that people flock to to seek a better life. Which all three of us do by the way. People come on boats with children to my country at just the chance of having a better life from the country they risked everything to leave. We must be pretty systematically racist for that to be the case.

Our liberal democracies are a wonder. @jayacheess is standing on the shoulders of giants and thinks he is flying.
  • 1 13
flag jayacheess (Aug 1, 2021 at 8:29) (Below Threshold)
 @ccs321: Specific examples, please. I can't think of any 'leftists regimes' that were tyrannical because of their attempts at 'forcing equity', but maybe you can enlighten me.
  • 11 0
 @jayacheess: Pretty much any communist state that's ever existed. Do you know anything about history?
  • 2 11
flag jayacheess (Aug 1, 2021 at 8:40) (Below Threshold)
 @commental: Those were just corrupt authoritarian regimes. Their tyranny was entirely about subjugating their population in order to maintain the power of a few at the top. It had nothing to do with 'attempting to force equity'.

North Korea claims to be a Republic. Authoritarians often claim to use certain ideologies/political systems to justify their corrupt actions as a cover/to gain legitimacy.
  • 9 0
 @jayacheess: So confiscating people's land, homes and private property and putting them in the hands of the state to be reallocated weren't ways of forcing equity? Yes, they were corrupt authoritarian regimes. They were also unarguably leftist.
BTW regarding your statement about forgetting the colour of someone's skin, you seem to have done a pretty thorough job of forgetting the skin colour of the person who initially posted this story on Instagram and gave Amaury his corn rows.
  • 3 7
flag jayacheess (Aug 1, 2021 at 8:56) (Below Threshold)
 @commental: Norway is leftist. Hell, Britain is leftist. Every functional western democracy is heavily built on socialist programs that help elevate the lower class and build a strong middle class. But it also includes capitalism as part of the equation.

Leftists also advocate for social equality through state intervention. That includes policies that help elevate less advantaged minority groups.

They do not advocate for the stealing of land from land owners or the subjugation of the population in order to prop up an oligarchy. These issues are far more complex than just left vs right. Corrupt regimes are often a mix of failed right wing and left wing policies. What unites them in their failure is that they were corrupt.

Corruption should always be the primary danger that a functional democracy is fighting against. Corruption is not left or right.
  • 10 0
 @jayacheess: Britain is leftist? Under the current leadership? Are you on drugs? Look up the Windrush scandal.

Communism is the epitome of leftist ideology. Please point out a country where it's implementation has been brought about using the democratic process and that democracy has been left in place after the regime change.
  • 3 7
flag jayacheess (Aug 1, 2021 at 9:01) (Below Threshold)
 @commental: Man, come on. I'm talking about the deeper underpinnings of the systems of government and social programs on which the country's foundation now rests. Not the current elected officials.
  • 3 0
 @jayacheess: The current elected officials are democratically elected by the voting public. We've had a Labour government for 13 years out of the last 42. A large part of them getting elected is because they were much closer to the centre than other Labour party leadership in that timespan. Maybe if you're comparing us to the US we could be described as leftist, but your argument soon falls apart if you compare us to the rest of Europe or even your own country.
  • 3 5
 @commental: You seem to be missing my point entirely. As I already stated above, Britain still has a robust series of social programs and pro-labour policies that are 'leftist' when taken in a world context.
  • 3 0
 @jayacheess: I think you are confusing liberal with leftist. They mean very different things over here.
  • 2 7
flag jayacheess (Aug 1, 2021 at 14:32) (Below Threshold)
 @commental: No, I don't believe I am. 'Left wing politics' are about advocating for an egalitarian society, of which social programs and labour advocacy are a central part.

'Right wing politics' are about upholding hierarchal structures, and promoting them as the natural order or things, which seems in opposition to policies designed to level the playing field.
  • 4 5
 @jayacheess: For people on the right, "leftist" is synonymous with "Communist". They don't acknowledge anything to the left of their particular position as having any value, it's all just a slippery slope to Communism.
  • 2 0
 @jayacheess: You claim Britain still has robust pro-labour policies. Look into zero hours contracts and the gig economy in this country. The labour union's power has been severely diminished since Thatcher and the NHS is slowly slipping into the hands of private enterprise. This country has been predominantly centre right for the last 75 years. All I can say is my definition of leftist is very different from yours.
Also what exactly is a world context? Are we talking Western world or are we including more than a billion Chinese who live under a regime that would claim to have left wing ideologies?
  • 5 0
 @commental: Yes I think that is what is going on here. I think I understand what @jayacheess is saying. Maybe it's lost in translation.

But it seems to me @jayacheess is just making a "that wasn't real Communism" argument.

History shows us you don't get to have a fully realised leftist ideology, which I think can be well defined as equity, which is what you were advocating at the beginning of this thread, without corruption and tyranny. They are part and parcel.

@commental you put it perfectly "Please point out a country where it's implementation has been brought about using the democratic process and that democracy has been left in place after the regime change."
  • 2 5
 @commental: Again, they can claim anything they want. It doesn't mean their policies are actually 'leftist'.
  • 3 4
 @ccs321: No one is advocating for communism. Communism and democratic socialism are very different concepts.

Fully realized leftist ideology does not = communism, in the same way fully realized right wing ideology does not = Nazis. We can't have a discussion if everything devolves in to extremist screaming and misunderstanding.
  • 6 0
 @jayacheess: Hmm I dont think you are being honest with yourself if you can square your quote "We can forget about colour only when there is a equality and equity in our power structures and systems of authority." with democratic socialism.

I was under the impression the conversion had already devolved into extremist screaming when you said this.

AP isn't a racist. Don't buy Muc-Off.
  • 3 5
 @ccs321:

"I was under the impression the conversion had already devolved into extremist screaming when you said this" - The fact that you see my comment as extremist screaming is pretty telling. How is hoping for equitable treatment for minorities an extreme point of view? Holy hell, some of you right-wingers are out to lunch.

And this may surprise you, but I don't believe AP is racist, either. But a brand like Muc-Off is put in a shitty position when one of its sponsored riders says the N word a bunch of times. Those of us in the mtb community may have read AP's Instagram response, and are totally cool with the fact that it came from a place of ignorance, and that he's better educated now on the meaning of the word.

But all average-Joe-Public will hear is that Muc-Off is sponsoring a dude who said the N word a bunch of times. That's a shitty PR situation to be in for any company.
  • 4 0
 @jayacheess: you are missing the point on the basis of liberalism on the foundation on every western democracy.

Socialist democracies is how nowadays far left supporters calls Cuba or Venezuela.

Move on mate, the closest the left was about gaining some comfort for the lower class was when they resigned on the control of the economy and accepted the free market
  • 2 4
 @norfiril: Was any of that meant to be coherent?
  • 2 6
flag pb-kg (Aug 1, 2021 at 20:15) (Below Threshold)
 @norfiril: excellent word salad. Like a Cobb Waldorf.
  • 5 1
 @jayacheess: You claim Pierron said the n word a bunch of times. Can you send me a link to where you read that? I haven't seen the original Instagram post, but from what has been reported here he was sitting opposite his black friend (who gave him the corn rows) with music playing in the background where the word was in the lyrics. PB haven't reported that he was singing along to those lyrics. Someone, again probably his black friend, wrote the word ni--ation on the post and tagged Pierron. So I ask again where have you seen that Pierron said the word once, let alone a bunch of times?
If you can't provide that evidence I'll just have to assume you're making shit up to back up your narrative.
  • 4 2
 @jayacheess: here is why I consider it extremist:

"We can forget about colour only when there is a equality" - Actual racism

"equity in our power structures and systems of authority." - Forced quotas on everyone through tyrannical rule.

The path to hell is paved with good intention. I believe your intentions are good, but I don't believe you understand the weight of the comment you made.

I don't buy your Muc-Off argument. I don't think there is anyone that would look at Muc-Off on the shelf and think 'I'm not going to buy it because of a story AP once posted to his Instagram'. It's nothing but virtue signalling.

I know you won't believe it but I'm not right wing, the political landscape has shifted so woke that even my views are is considered right wing. If our labour party could put a voteable party together that is significantly closer to centre I would be fully behind them.
  • 6 0
 @ccs321: I once voted Conservative (in 1987), but haven't done so since. But people on this thread are classing me as right wing even though my last vote was given to a party to the left of the Conservatives, who apparently are "leftist" in a "world context". Go figure.
  • 3 1
 @jayacheess: Sure thing. You are stating the left is the base of the wellfare state and that's not true or not all truth.

The main base of modern western democracies is the libertarian approach even with some incorporations of post marxist policies (in Europe mainly).

You have to be aware the differences between that (simplistic) view of right and left is not consistent across the world or even with the time. What is "left" in USA could be considered right in other countries like mine, or Argentina for example.

If you are talking about left in it's more primordial approach (based on marxists theories) what you are saying is just not true and I'm speaking about results here not about intentions.
  • 3 3
 @ccs321: ""equity in our power structures and systems of authority." - Forced quotas on everyone through tyrannical rule."

Expecting the police not to profile minorities, or the judicial system to not sentence minorities more harshly than white people for similar crimes is not tyrannical.

I'm not sure if those are issues in Britain, but they're certainly issues in North America.

I'm having trouble understanding exactly where or how specifically you expect tyranny to manifest in western democracies. I've asked before and you've evaded the question. Do you have specific examples or not?
  • 3 1
 @jayacheess: "Expecting the police not to profile minorities, or the judicial system to not sentence minorities more harshly than white people for similar crimes is not tyrannical."
This is equality (applicability of law is the same for everyone/justice is blind) and very different than equity, the words are not interchangeable but seemingly similar.
Equity: "The quality of being fair and impartial"
The problem arises when it's time for deciding who and what defines "fair." In history it's been wise and great people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. and they might have different ideas of fairness to other people, leading to disagreement.
  • 3 4
 @adamdigby: I'm aware of the difference, yes. I realize 'affirmative action' equity programs really rankle white men, in particular, but they've been critical in helping to build representation in a variety of sectors. Representation is critical in approaching true equality.

And no, we're not at a place where this isn't still needed. There are recent studies that show that people with foreign or 'black' sounding names are less likely to be hired compared to their white sounding counter parts when equally qualified. This kind of thing is rampant, and insidious. And it's certainly not conscious racism, for the most part.

Also, stop bringing up dictators. The closest thing we had to a dictator in North America was Trump, and he wasn't left wing, as far as I can tell. If you can actually point to specific instances of left-wing radicals becoming tyrants who are on the verge of gaining power and throwing political dissidents in jail, I'd absolutely love to know about it.
  • 4 0
 @jayacheess: the problem is most of those studies normally reduce the subject according to one arbitrary variable “race”, “sex”, “religion” (or the stratification you want really) and ignore much other different factors that can lead to that result.

They are pretty much the definition of bias.

Anyway it would be interesting if you can provide them with the full methodology of study, the population of the study and we can discuss properly.
  • 3 0
 @jayacheess: thank you.

Just a few things that may help this conversation a little:

- This link don’t show any of the data I requested, just the results and a summary. Easy and entertaining to read but not informative for stating such things.

- In most countries in Europe (from were Amaury or a lot of people from this thread are), whitened resumes are enforced by law. In some cases they also erase the name of the candidate during hiring process and it’s not a recent measure.

- This article does not support the affirmative action you claimed as necessary
  • 4 0
 @jayacheess: that's not tyrannical at all. No I don't think the issue is quite the same in the UK, as our history is different to north America. People seem to believe that it is, as in the UK, like most of the world, we import north American culture.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that after referencing my quote though. If you are conversing with me honestly and not trying to construe what I'm saying, which I'm not accusing you of by the way, then you are conflating the meaning of the word equity. We are not talking about equality.

I did answer your question, we were talking about examples of tyrannical equity, of which i pointed out there are many examples of leftist totalitarian states. If you need a clear example, we can say Stalin.

But the question has now changed.
You called for "equity in our power structures and systems of authority". I take that to be through and through equity - equality of outcome and quotas. You are now asking how tyranny can manifest itself in western democracies within that context. The answer to your new question is no, there are no examples. You don't get to have all three. You don't get to have democracy if you want to have equity, you need a totalitarian regime. Conversely you don't get to have equity if you want a non tyrannical democracy. 

I think you don't hold the correct meaning of the word equity. Out of genuine interest, what does the word mean to you? Do you believe in quotas and equality of outcome?
  • 2 3
 @ccs321: No, I don't believe in equality of outcome. Is that what this is? You believe fighting for equity means attempting to build a communist-like society?

No, the idea is get everyone up to a base line, or the same starting line, so that equal opportunity is actually equal opportunity.
  • 1 2
 @norfiril: "- This article does not support the affirmative action you claimed as necessary"

It absolutely supports the idea that there is inherent bias in favour of hiring white workers - though the study is not specifically about that. If that's the case, how can you possibly say that affirmative action-type programs are not still needed?
  • 3 0
 @jayacheess: If you read it, not very carefully it expresses the idea of implementing a regulation similar to other countries to avoid any kind of bias during the hiring process.

It never said that forced representation is required. Maybe because that would imply participating in a (sadly) very common fallacy: confusing equality of opportunities with equality of results. They can't be more different.

In your comment you are aiming to affirmative actions enforcing results, not opportunities.

Results and opportunities are a much broad issue to be discussed solely in racial variable. The problem with narrow approaches is they don't provide solutions to the problem; frequently different problems.
  • 1 6
flag jayacheess (Aug 2, 2021 at 17:27) (Below Threshold)
 @norfiril: I swear, discussing topics like this with people like you and ccs321 is such a headache. Both of you attempt to gaslight people who disagree with you by claiming they're confused about a topic, while you're both totally out of step with long studied research and policy related to equity programs for disadvantaged minorities - likely on purpose, as it serves the narrative you're attempting to drive about woke culture, or whatever it is you believe is so dangerous about a company wanting to distance itself from the N word.
  • 1 7
flag tomich1 (Aug 2, 2021 at 20:18) (Below Threshold)
 Lol are you guys for real? This dude said the N-WORD on a PUBLIC social media post.
He also put a picture of him self with CORN ROWS on the same post.

This dude is lucky he hasn’t caught a good old fashion beat down…

Muc-off is doing the responsible thing by pulling the sponsorship from someone who’s actions effected the way people look at their products and company. Commencal should probably do the same just to save face.
  • 4 0
 @tomich1: Where's your proof. Go back and read the story instead of leaping to outrage. I asked jayachess to provide a link to some proof of Pierron actually saying the word, but he hasn't. Can you, or are you happy to accuse people of things they haven't done too?
  • 6 0
 @tomich1: His black friend who gave him the corn rows put the picture up on a social media post, probably because he thought it was funny. It was a stupid thing to do, but do you think that black guy is racist? Pierron then reposted it, also stupid, but not as stupid as posting vitriolic shit when you clearly haven't read the story and understood what actually happened.
  • 5 0
 @jayacheess: if I disagree with you and just state the same things the link you provided is trying for you. Mate I hope you are no older than 13
  • 1 4
 @norfiril: You're sad. Gaslighting and now insults.
  • 5 0
 @jayacheess: it is a long studied subject but you weren’t able to provide the results you are looking to validate.

I just stated the same things the link you provided and the obvious: you are begging for enforcing results with the excuse of equality of opportunities even when they are very different concepts.

There is nothing in that link that supports your affirmation. It’s just a fact.

If reality (or the link) doesn’t support your black and white simplistic view is not anybody’s fault but yours.
  • 1 4
 @norfiril:

I believe it absolutely supports it. Affirmative action isn't a final step in the fight for equity. It's a first step. It's meant to increase representation, which has the broader effect of normalizing minorities in these different sectors. Ultimately, this helps create equal opportunities because it reduces the bias against these different minority groups.

It's not a direct relationship, but this has been the point of these programs. This should be obvious, but you're bogged down in minutiae in order to win an internet argument.

I'm quite done with this, anyway. cheers
  • 4 1
 @jayacheess: I totally support your previous affirmation about equal opportunities and, if there is a bias on hiring process, blind hiring is legit as it doesn’t harm anyone.

Increasing representation is something that happens naturally as the social and economic of different minorities broadly increase years ago.

As long as this politics doesn’t make differences and they are meant to not empower or harm any collective by some random criteria are fine but when they interfere with qualification, skills or merits of people are just another biased decision and behavior.

Fighting discrimination with more discrimination just doesn’t solve any problem.
  • 3 1
 @jayacheess: what I recall from this type hiring study in USA was that the effect was depending on what type of black and white names were used. Back and white names typical to low socioeconomic class had both negative effect . Middle class names yield to less discrepancy.

Second point even if there was proven to be true bias in hiring that tells only that there is bias in hiring . That cannot be generalized to anything else without solid evidence.
  • 2 1
 @jayacheess:

The general problem with social justice / critical race theory / intersectional feminism is that they fail almost without exception to provide solid evidence to back up their claims.

Also they build on postmodernism stating proudly that they are not interested to thrive towards objective truth. This with standpoint epistemology , answers known beforehand and denying to engage to discussions with critics mean that Social justice is an ideology and not science.
  • 1 4
 @Juuhan: Your comment history is interesting. Are you here to talk about mountain biking, or are you fighting the culture war?
  • 1 4
 @commental: When a bunch of people say the same thing about you, there has to some truth in there somewhere.. Letting this guy 100% off the hook doesn’t send a good message to future generations or black people. If you can’t see that you need to open you’re mind a little my guy!
  • 6 0
 @tomich1: Just because a bunch of affronted snowflakes who don't possess the brain power to understand what's been reported on here jump to the same false conclusions, that doesn't make your allegations correct.

If you can't point to evidence of him actually saying anything maybe you need to open your mind to the fact that people like you and jayacheess do more harm than good when you talk shit like this. As far as I'm concerned your misdemeanours are worse than anything Amaury has done.

I'd hoped we had moved on from the mob rule mentality from the days of lynchings, seems not.
  • 3 4
 @commental: Applying 'lynchings' - which involved racially motivated extrajudicial murders of black people - to a white guy being called out and losing a single sponsor for using the N word, is somewhere beyond the realm of stupid/ignorant.



AP made this post: "Next level n----tion" in his Instagram Stories, which Pierron subsequently shared in his own Instagram Stories with the caption "Rap carrer in the making” set to Bobnlarry's 'N---- N---- N----' song."

So he certainly typed the N word. If for some reason you believe that's less serious than speaking the N word, I'm not sure what to tell you. You may just be another European who doesn't fully grasp the history of the word.
  • 3 1
 @jayacheess: AP didn't make the post, his black friend Charlie Julia did. He was the one who typed Ni--ation, which, according to the current thinking, he gets a pass for as he's black. All AP did was repost it. JFC man,
learn to read.
  • 2 2
 @commental: "according to the current thinking, he gets a pass for as he's black."

Yes, he gets a pass because his race was on the receiving end of a word used as part of a many hundreds years long campaign of slavery and subjugation. I know it really rankles you to know that using the word as a white guy might make you look bad, but maybe it's not that big a deal given the circumstances.

On AP's instagram - that's definitely a step removed, and I agree that him sharing the post isn't the same as him making the post. It still shows a level of ignorance that this might not be a good look and that sponsors might not be happy with it.

For me, even if he had directly typed it, I thought his apology was sincere, and he acknowledged that he didn't realize the significance of the word. If I were a sponsor, I might just give it a pass - but I also totally understand why a sponsor might also want to distance themselves.

This isn't woke culture run amok as you like to make it out to be.
  • 2 1
 @jayacheess: Ah, so you acknowledge AP didn't type it and didn't say it once, let alone a bunch of times. Muc-off have removed funding from Commencal 21, the team that's managed by Charlie Julia. He's the biggest loser in all of this. Something you seem to be happy with, whilst simultaneously advocating affirmative action programs. Cool.
As for me, I'm just another European who's capable of critical thinking. You should try it sometime.
  • 1 2
 @commental: God, you're absolute doofus. Maybe YOU need to learn to read? I JUST said that if I were a sponsor, I likely wouldn't have pulled sponsorship. So no, I'm not happy that someone that wasn't involved lost their sponsor. But a sponsor wanting to distance themselves from an unwise social media post (yes, it still wasn't a good look and spoke to his ignorance of the history of the word), is still totally understandable and the blame is on AP for Charlie's loss, unfortunately.

And yes, it wasn't clear who originally posted the Instagram story. It was shared by him but not written by him. I'm able to acknowledge that I'm wrong and revise my opinion. Have you ever tried that?
  • 1 0
 @jayacheess: What do you mean not involved? Charlie Julia created the post and lost his team funding as a result. Nobody is saying what they did wasn't stupid, but if he gets a pass for typing it how come his punishment is more severe?
What Muc-off did here was complete BS. As is laying all the blame on AP.
  • 1 2
 @commental: Look, dude. I'm trying to meet you part way on this, but you won't budge an inch on Muc Off being 100% in the wrong for wanting to protect their brand image. Can't you at least admit that they had some cause to be worried? The N word being shared by or said by a white person is something no sponsor wants to be associated with. The recent rise of right wing neo nazi groups in North America and other places makes this especially touchy.
  • 2 0
 @jayacheess: It's something no sponsor wants, so punish the black guy more. Yeah, makes sense.
I'm done mate, I haven't got the energy.
  • 3 0
 @commental: mine ran out a few days ago, just dropped back in and wished I hadn't. Seems you can't use reason to cut the dopamine supply that comes believing you are the most virtues, holding a view point about as developed as "be nice". The authoritarian left marches. God help us all.
  • 3 0
 Charlie Julia is black ? (well, in french we would probably say métis = mixed race in english)
Lol, what's all the fuss then ?
So AP gets a "black style" haircut by his senegalese friend, Charlie who's mixed (so seemingly allowed to use the N word, or maybe he's only allowed to use half of it ?) makes a joke, AP, oblivious to all that stupid thing, echoes the joke by quoting a meeeh song and everyone divides by zero ? Wow, what a time to be alive.
  • 3 0
 @Will-narayan:From Charlie Julia'a apology; "I didn’t know that this song and these words had so much evil in the. Believe me, if I did, both Amaury and I wouldn’t have played it."
From Amaury Pierron's apology; "I reposted a picture, a song, and a term for which I don’t understand the true and painful meaning. If I could turn back time, I would change my actions."
From Pinkbike's report; "Yesterday Commencal 21 Team Manager Charlie Juliá shared a photo of Amaury Pierron with cornrows and the words "Next level n----tion" in his Instagram Stories, which Pierron subsequently shared in his own Instagram Stories with the caption "Rap carrer in the making” set to Bobnlarry's 'N---- N---- N----' song."
From what CJ and AP are saying the song was on the original post.
Personally I think Pinkbike were deliberately ambiguous in their reporting, knowing how many clicks they could generate by muddying the waters. They should be proud.
  • 102 0
 Is it racist that I hate everyone equally? Dealing with people is a pain in the ass.
  • 13 1
 No, you're good....
  • 7 0
 Jean-Paul Sartre: “Hell is other people”

Nailed it
(Even though it’s not exactly how he meant it)
  • 4 0
 I like you already.
  • 27 20
 dont be naive. "racist" is just a red herring to destroy dissent. classic lefty fascism
  • 19 22
 @quesoquesoqueso: to quote Inigo Montoya: I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy

It literally has “far-right” in the definition. So “Lefty”? Not so much. Nice try though.
  • 14 11
 @ReformedRoadie: ohhh. we know who wrote that, dont we lol.

the truth vigilantes are burried in like ticks.

you dont think murderous dictorial communist are facist?
thats a rhetorical question btw
  • 17 5
 @ReformedRoadie: and the far left just kill people enmasse. History teaches this. Many times over
  • 12 19
flag ReformedRoadie (Jul 30, 2021 at 21:41) (Below Threshold)
 @quesoquesoqueso: oh, bless your little heart.
I’m sorry. He’s not coming back in August. That must be hard for you. Just clutch your MyPillow tightly. It’ll be ok. Maybe ride your bike to get over it.
  • 19 3
 @ReformedRoadie: yeah send him to the internment camp for re-education. thats a good little totalitarian
  • 9 1
 @ReformedRoadie: the weird thing is that as you go more far right you get less and less government involvement until you're basically at anarcho capitalism, zero government. Fascism involves quite a lot of government. If anything fascism seems more like an offshoot of far left communism, but instead of class struggles it's racial struggles. Sure doesn't line up cleanly with the classic political compass. Regardless, each form of government sure has a long history of killing dissenters. It's good to see how much people oppose fascism these days, as they should. Yet I see people all the time who actually advocate for other forms of far left government like communism even though we all know how dangerous it is.
  • 1 6
flag GBeard (Jul 31, 2021 at 17:47) (Below Threshold)
  • 1 6
flag GBeard (Jul 31, 2021 at 17:52) (Below Threshold)
  • 2 2
 Left or right, don't be a zealot.
  • 4 2
 It's so dumb to turn everything into a political issue.
  • 5 2
 @ReformedRoadie:

Fscism is a radical authoritarian nationalism... left, right it dosent matter, it is an ideology forming a police state, like in all dictatorships forming hate towards others that dont agree and are diffrent..

Mussolini was at first part of PSI (Italijan Socialist Party) and Hitler was a part of NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers' Party, commonly known as the Nazi Party)
  • 4 5
 @capla: so essentially you’re describing what the last administration in the US aspired too, but fortunately due to guardrails and it’s own ineptitude failed at.
  • 3 1
 @ReformedRoadie: that is only your opinion, I just wrote some facts
  • 4 2
 @ReformedRoadie: I can't believe you seriously think that... If it is true, I'm sorry you had to live through such a scary time and I send you many virtual hugs and kisses.
  • 119 33
 I'm getting sick of the hypocrisy where one group claims exclusive rights to use offensive words but complain when other people use them. How can we justify selling misogynistic, hate filled, violence glorifying, n-word leaden rap music to the masses then complain that they copy the words mentioned in it. A white rap music fan can't even sing the lyrics to his favourite music... because that would be racist! We all agree the n-word is racist, so send all the rappers on the same course as AP under threat of loosing their contracts.
  • 35 9
 Spot on. Double standards.
  • 13 46
flag Dogl0rd (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:46) (Below Threshold)
 It makes sense in an American cultural context.... There was this thing called slavery for a while dude
  • 3 1
 @Dogl0rd: Isn’t AP French?!?!
  • 5 12
flag stubs179 (Jul 31, 2021 at 5:09) (Below Threshold)
 So, do you think ALL black people are rappers? Do you think that ALL black people listen to rap and agree with the words used in it? Do you know there are many black people that resent rap and the use of certain words in it for the exact reasons you stated? Don't generalize an entire race of people by a type of music because its popular.
  • 2 1
 I wasn't being sarcastic, these people seem not to know
  • 3 0
 @Dogl0rd: and it didn't exist before or in the parts of the world it originated in? Do you seriously lack the knowledge of slavery and how it affected literally every corner of the world. Blows me away how narrow the myopic of education you Americans get.
  • 3 11
flag Dogl0rd (Jul 31, 2021 at 6:52) (Below Threshold)
 @atrokz: you have no idea what my education level and quality is and you're very mistaken. You don't seem to understand how complicated culture culture is. I'm willing to not say a certain word out of respect for a certain people; I don't care if it's a double standard.
  • 3 4
 @cjdean: the simple fact is that when you are an international level athlete you have to respect other cultures. Amaury didn't. You can complain about double standards, but that doesn't change how the action is going to be seen by the culture that is sensitive to that action.

The lack of understanding was already clear in those amazing commencal videos that overrelied on rap and making the riders look gangster or ironically gangster. Even if Amaury is French, rap is still heavily American, hence the controversy.
  • 8 1
 @Dogl0rd: You made a statement that pertained to American context then said there was this thing called slavery. So the connotation was that only Americans understand slavery or that a word is bad. Which is rich since America was a drop in the bucket and slavery is still ongoing today and Europe had its own massive slave trade. Just a weird comment to make imo and if it wasn't a joke which maybe it was, illustrates ignorance to history and the rest of the world.
  • 2 6
flag Dogl0rd (Jul 31, 2021 at 7:26) (Below Threshold)
 @atrokz: sure those other places had slavery too, but each culture is unique. And the things that Amaury did look bad in an American context at a very minimum, and unfortunately that matters whether he is French or not. And the reasons it matters goes back to America's period of slavery, although this is not the sole reason. Didn't think I would have to spell this out.
  • 4 0
 @Dogl0rd: the word definitely has its roots in America. So there's that for sure.
  • 3 0
 @stubs179: Then why do we not hear them calling it out?
  • 7 0
 @atrokz: Don’t forget that one of the main aids to slavery were the people in Africa who were already selling people to other tribes as slaves. When white man turned up they started selling the slaves to the white peoples rather than to other tribes.
  • 1 1
 @atrokz: indeed
  • 12 1
 @stubs179: Don't try to put words in my mouth....

So, do you think ALL black people are rappers?
- NO I didn't say that.

Do you think that ALL black people listen to rap and agree with the words used in it?
- No, I didn't say that either.

Do you know there are many black people that resent rap and the use of certain words in it for the exact reasons you stated?
- I imagine there are.

Don't generalize an entire race of people by a type of music because its popular.

- I didn't generalize and entire race. I said "send all the RAPPERS on the same course" NOt send all black people.

You are generalizing opinions, not me.
  • 87 4
 Watch this clip : youtu.be/_t75ABhGfi4?t=832

It's Bruni interviewing Pierron, talking about the language barriers for the French on the World Cup circuit. They talk about how no one liked them because they couldn't speak English. They are noticeably struggling to speak to each other in their second language.

Racism is entirely contextual and entirely constructed. Expecting someone to be aware of the nuances of a word in a language they hardly understand from a context they're not familiar with is asking a lot- particularly when they're clearly a hip hop fan, which, imo, would just make the nuances of that word that much more confusing. When I lived in France I was surrounded with people who loved hip hop, even though they had no idea what the words meant or what the larger cultural narratives were.

Sure, Muc Off needs to signal that they're not ok with this, but these kinds of gaffes shouldn't distract people in the states from systemic racism becoming more entrenched through legislation.
  • 75 1
 Let’s not forget Muc-Off’s advertising for the World Champs a few years back.
  • 10 0
 I'll bite... What was it?
  • 7 0
 @Randy-Verified: damn you!!!

Ctrl + Shift + N
  • 11 1
 Bahahaha! Now MTBing is ruined for the Ladies
  • 6 1
 @Randy-Verified: Make me wanna buy some bicycle cleaning products!
  • 45 1
 Seem hypocrisy levels are all time high. Don't think I'll be buying m(f)uck off products any time soon.
  • 19 0
 Their leaked 2021 worlds ads are even worse:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/21043418
  • 4 0
 I mean that’s just hot though?
  • 1 6
flag leviatanouroboro (Jul 31, 2021 at 7:28) (Below Threshold)
 @yhurt: I bet you jack off to porn too. Stop being a hypocrite.
  • 5 0
 @dingus: That's amazing. It really should be the homepage photo for this story.
  • 3 4
 Who cares. Sex sells. That girl is a model. It’s super gross when brands push a rider to “be sexy” or are choosing to market with Good looking influencers instead of bad ass bike riding women.
  • 9 0
 @yhurt: the inconsistency in dropping sponsorship of the manager's team but having Amaury attend a course is complete BS. Drop both or neither. The preferred treatment of a superstar rider in this case reeks of hypocrisy. I personally won't touch their crap ever again.
  • 1 0
 @dingus: Made my day
  • 69 6
 Amaury and Charlie Juliá displayed at best, very poor judgement and awareness, but Muc-Off took 8 days to respond publicly and found the time in between to do a press release for a press release on their latest bullshit bike cleaner product. Obviously none of is know the full story, but it looks like Muc-Off have been willing to throw the smaller team under the bus without being willing to give up their prime spot with the Commencal Muc-Off deal. I'm disappointed by Amaury, one of my favourite riders, but I do feel his actions are a result of immaturity and ignorance, rather than racism. Muc-Off can Fuc-Off.
  • 12 6
 A few days to respond isn't unreasonable. They probably wanted to have a conversation with Commencal and AP behind closed doors (or at least via zoom) before making and decisions - which doesn't happen instantly. I think the decision to have him take a class to literally learn from his mistake is an excellent response.
  • 20 1
 @ratedgg13: But they could have kept it behind closed doors, have some hard conversations with AP and the team manager. But no, they needed to make an advertisement/press release out of it to show they are the "good guys". Especially with their history in objectifying women in their advertisement campaigns, I think they are the last company that can take any moral high ground.
  • 2 0
 Complainers will complain…
  • 58 1
 Time and time again, it is proven that you better shut the fuck up on social media or don't use it at all.
  • 9 0
 probably the only thing that had to be said on here.
  • 96 49
 The level of ignorance in this comment section is shocking. We have a long way to go to make this an inclusive community. Imagine being a black person getting into mtb, already having to deal with being the only POC in most group rides, seeing some shit like this from one of the sport's top athletes, then seeing a bunch of people defend it. Sure wouldn't make me stoked on the sport.
  • 39 32
 this! I can’t believe how many people are trying to downplay this bs as an innocent joke or mistake.
  • 34 42
flag Almostredbike (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:40) (Below Threshold)
 Can your average American black person afford a mountain bike?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Maybe engage in some meaningful social change instead of gobbing off on the internet
  • 16 10
 This exactly. I believe AP made a mistake but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass or has no responsibility to do better. The real problem are the people saying there was nothing wrong with what happened and that anyone upset about it is a snowflake.
  • 20 24
flag f00bar (Jul 30, 2021 at 15:08) (Below Threshold)
 @mmleach829: agsakodh rirdh bdje

I just offended someone in a parallel universe by calling his mother a whore.

Do you understand now, why people are defending AP?
  • 13 4
 @f00bar: So, because you didn't know what you said was offensive, then nobody is allowed to be upset? I'm not saying that AP is a racist or a bad person (I personally don't think he is and I've seen few, if any, comments here claiming that he is). However, it is possible to think AP is a generally decent guy without trashing those who are offended by his actions (or, god forbid, to be offended by those actions yourself).
  • 16 22
flag JohanG (Jul 30, 2021 at 18:09) (Below Threshold)
 Black people don't care about being called that. They just like seeing white people duck and hide from the boogeyman.
  • 7 2
 @JohanG: yes, they absolutely do care about it. If you’d like to test your theory though, why don’t you try calling a few black strangers that. I expect their reaction to you, whatever it may be might just bring you back down to earth.
  • 9 0
 @Almostredbike: Can your average white person afford a mountain bike? No. It's not a question of race. It has to do with your choice of activities or sports.
  • 8 1
 @arna86: Context… yes, most black people probably would be offended if called that… Not what AP did though.

Perhaps ignorant given the current social climate, but most of the reaction is feigned outrage by self righteous white people.
  • 4 1
 @cjdean: agreed, but that wasn’t the OP’s point. He was making a generalisation about black people not caring about being called that which is wholly incorrect. I suspect that outrage is largely by white people because they form the largest demographic of mountain bikers globally and I’d guess are the largest demographic on Pinkbike. That doesn’t make them wrong to call it out for what it is though, which as you’ve quite rightly said was likely a very high level of ignorance/stupidity on AP’s part. Whilst I don’t believe he himself had any bad intent with his post, he should however have been aware of his position as a high profile sponsored rider and social media influencer; particularly to younger audiences. I’ve said it in several comments in this section elsewhere already but again; the bigger issue I have is that his stupidity in the instance in question (and whilst I’m at it, also, the stupidity of those in black communities that continue to use the word to “own it”) contributes towards the normalisation of the use of a term that is weaponised by others to deliberately demean and insult an entire race and for that, there quite rightly should be consequences.
  • 11 0
 People are not necessarily defending what he said, but are commenting that the penalty does not fit the infraction. His apology and learning from his ignorant mistake is enough. English is not his native language. How many people know all the racial slurs of every language and how to use or not use it in the correct context? When something as common as music has the racial slurs constantly repeated over and over and people are going to repeat it without actually knowing what the context or the meaning of those words? I travel abroad a lot. It is extremely common for people and companies to use words, or sing words, they have no idea of the meanings.
  • 68 27
 Once I met a man who said something profound in my opinion, he said “I wish people would quit being so offended by what others say within a joking and fun context. Not that we should take lightly what has happened in the past and the horrible things in our history at all. But as long as everyone keeps taking the smallest things so seriously and getting offended so easily we will never end racism!” Now I’m not exactly sure how that looks in society at all nor am I saying either part involved here is right or wrong. Just saying that man had an interesting perspective. And in case you’re wondering that man was an elderly African man who lived in Georgia and saw some of the worst displays of racism seen in modern history. Also met and heard Martin Luther kind speak on a few occasions.
  • 37 18
 Racism is very much still a problem and not something "that happened in the past."
  • 17 4
 It's also funny how nobody asks Native Americans or Mayans or Incans or Aztecs.

I met a woman from the Quala nation in Cherokee who is very old and wise. She played basketball for the school & as late as the 1970's, she and her team had to stay on the bus to eat for away games because restaurants they stopped at wouldn't let them in the restaurants.

She said I had no hate in my heart for them. I pitied them because they were taught that.

We only pick what's the hot topic rather than forgive and work on raising the next generation a little better than we were raised.
  • 6 3
 @mudandgearspdx: not saying it is something of the past only. just sharing wisdom that i received from someone who is wiser than i, that seemed applicable to this article. This man was someone who saw a very dark time in our history while living in the south and i cant help but respect his opinion considering the things he witnessed.
  • 6 4
 @rumblefish255: You once met an elderly man who used the words "within a joking and fun context?" Remarkable.
  • 10 7
 one African American says "don't be offended by everything" so its fine? This is entirely anecdotal and doesn't represent the views of other people of colour...But whatever makes you feel better
  • 9 7
 @rumblefish255: spot on, thanks for sharing, the sensitivity these days is off the charts...literally anything said can be turned around...context matters and hyper sensitivity is (obviously) not helping
  • 5 5
 @blowmyfuse: The Mayans? Very humorous. They were destroyed by the surrounding tribes because they were universally hated for the constant kidnapping for their human sacrifices. public schoolers....
  • 1 2
 agreed. I sometimes call my forks ...spoons. But its not out of hate.
  • 5 4
 @JohanG: thanks for finding something wrong with my words so you could comment on that rather than the intent
  • 1 0
 @JohanG: are you sure that wasn't the aztecs? My understanding was the Mayans had vanished before European contact. Oh well, something to read up on....again.
  • 3 0
 @sonuvagun: all mesoamerican cultures were the same in the topic of human sacrifice, from the Olmecs all the way to the most "recent" ones the Aztecs. No need to read again.
  • 72 27
 Fuc of muck off
  • 40 0
 Wait a second, I'm not very bright and I'm struggling to follow this story. So we've got:

- Top DH pro and team manager of junior team get into hot water over a racist IG post (ok, not cool, don't do that).
- Muc-off see this and feel the appropriate response is to drop support for THE f*ckING ENTIRE JUNIOR TEAM of whom only one employee was involved, while a single involved rider in the top team gets a relative slap on the wrist with orders for a self-funded trip to a re-education camp.
- Muc-off seemingly are either entirely oblivious, or worse comfortable, with the double standards at play, not to mention the inference that only highly valuable athletes are redeemable, not the support staff.

Have I surmised this correctly? If so, muc-off, how bout fuc-off!
  • 7 0
 I can't imagine that this situation is going to pay off well in the end for muc off. Not really sure what they were thinking here. I respect their decision though and I'll never purchase another item from them.
  • 76 32
 I'm okay with this.
  • 61 16
 ^some one ban this guy. I'm not listening to any more calm and reasonable viewpoints thank you very much.
  • 7 23
flag willdavidson9595 (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:29) (Below Threshold)
 Nobody asked
  • 33 2
 Also let's not forget that MucOff specifically is in no place whatsoever to lecture anyone about anything concerning morals or political correctness.

Or have y'all already forgotten about their advertisements at the world champs a couple of years ago?
  • 39 15
 What idiots buy this mucoff crap anyway. Overpriced pink rubbish always trying to be ahead of the woke and progressive curve. Most their products suck or are barely acceptable and you can replace every product they make with one 25% of its price and outperform it.
  • 2 27
flag jin-sandhu (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:49) (Below Threshold)
 Ur brain dead
  • 6 0
 Kingud is a top alternative product to use. Muc off copies all their eco products. The latest marketing bullcr@p is a trailer on Kingud.
  • 81 54
 Seems like an appropriate response.
  • 15 16
 I agree. Thank goodness the comments are here to get right back to business with some hot headedness. Let's not all lose out minds and get sensible now.
  • 3 3
 @nickkk: what else is the comment section for dammit!?
  • 27 0
 I think a lot of people is not aware that Charlie Julia is black
  • 4 38
flag slumgullion (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:43) (Below Threshold)
 That's because he isn't, he's Spanish.
  • 46 0
 @slumgullion: oh interesting, do black people only come from a particular country? Which one particularly?
  • 4 1
 @slumgullion: lol, seriously you ding dong?
  • 18 1
 @slumgullion: Wow smart move dumbass. Thanks to you we now know these comments are all irrelevant if none of you guys know anything about what you’re fighting for. Apparently this is not a cause you care about, you just try to humiliate people to make you feel better because this is the trend in the US since last year.
  • 6 0
 You don’t get it. If angry people with a keyboard tell you you are whatsoever ended in “-ist” then you are
  • 29 6
 OK for some to say and not ok for others to say. Which is total bullshit. If it's such a bad thing then radios, stop playing it. Producers, stop producing it. And while they're at it they should ban that fucking white chick's movie where those 2 black guys dress as white girls and fully stereotype white women. It's all retarded.
  • 6 27
flag jin-sandhu (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:48) (Below Threshold)
 Just admit ur a racist if u want to be able to say racial slurs so bad u can’t say it end of. And white face has no history behind it and saying it does is such a reductive and stupid comments
  • 15 0
 Maybe less banning and more chilling would produce less panty-twisted people.
  • 30 7
 AP is a young FRENCH bloke, who speaks FRENCH. He speaks English as a second language, likely because he has to in order to have a wider appeal in his chosen sport.

As a young FRENCH bloke, he'll be listening to music coming out of the US where this offensive word is used in every second sentence. Who cares who is using it, it's being used and sent around the world in popular music. Quite often, music and movies is where non English speakers learn the language from. Would the artists prefer that only native ENGLISH speakers who understand the US slave history listen to their music?
Why the hell would AP think this word is offensive, when it's used so much in his learning source by those it's supposed to offend? How is a young FRENCH bloke supposed to know everything about American history and their historical abuse of the rest of the world?

If people are offended by the use of any English word, stop using it altogether, thus avoiding confusion in non English speakers.

Only then can the use of the word identify true racism.
  • 9 1
 100%...he's been around it his entire life, not his culture, how would he have known? His buddy who is apparently black, didnt stop him. We should ask his buddy what he thinks....
  • 8 0
 @RadBartTaylor: Exactly, I think a lot of people on here need to have a look on the map where Senegal is. If he is so racist, why is he spending time with African friends?
A lot of people won't appreciate just how multicultural France is and also the amount of African migrants there. Unlike a lot of places, most French people live happily alongside people from other places on earth.
  • 16 0
 @RadBartTaylor: Trouble is, no-one cares what his buddy thinks, even though he's a black guy working in a predominantly white industry who's just had his funding cut by his sponsors. You couldn't make it up.
  • 8 1
 @commental: exactly what happens with cxl culture, woke and all the other BS, unintended consequences...
  • 44 23
 Yes, maybe Amory doesn't have a very pompous sense of humor. But Muc OFF needs to make such a DRAMA out of this! Everyone around is talking about tolerance, but they themselves do not show it in any way. What a joke!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39AJrNlWw4
  • 20 30
flag Mondbiker (Jul 30, 2021 at 13:47) (Below Threshold)
 Well, you only have to be tolerant to black people it seems. That or you must be racist, no other way around it.
  • 17 16
 So they should be tolerant of racism? what a stupid argument my guy
  • 18 14
 you're really saying people should be tolerant of RACISM? you're batshit crazy and part of the problem
  • 18 4
 @EnsBen @emptybe-er Are you guys really saying that Amaury and Charlie performed an act of actual RACISM????? Yikes, you guys are pretty cringe.
  • 20 4
 @emptybe-er: @EnsBen:
People need to stop pulling racism where it doesn't exist. And the fact that someone can say an N-word and someone cannot - is racism. Charlie Julia is actually black. But he's Spaniard, and Spaniards can't say an N-word either, right?
There is more racism in your reasoning than in Amaury's joke.
  • 3 9
flag emptybe-er (Aug 1, 2021 at 2:17) (Below Threshold)
 @adamdigby: not sure what to say.. yikes, you’re pretty stupid, I guess
  • 3 10
flag emptybe-er (Aug 1, 2021 at 2:30) (Below Threshold)
 @Kuzlich: It’s obviously too confusing for you and about 10 others to figure out. Just another moronic analogy that only makes sense to a racist. Congrats on the excellent reasoning abilities.
  • 6 1
 @emptybe-er: So the black guy who gave Amaury the hairstyle and initially posted this on Instagram is racist? And you're accusing others of being confused? LMFAO.
  • 2 7
flag emptybe-er (Aug 1, 2021 at 13:42) (Below Threshold)
 @commental: It doesn't matter who helped with the stereotype, moron. He doesn’t get a pass because he knows a black guy. Are people really this stupid?
  • 5 2
 @emptybe-er: what matters is it an obvious case of united states cultural imperialism (strangely relayed by an uk company) who pretend to have a right to decide what is racist or not from people of very different cultures.

Which is funny because USA is one of the countries who still use the concept of race to talk about different ethnicities or skin cors while the common scientific consensus, which also happen to be what is used in western europe since the end of WW2) is that there is only one race of the human especie : homo sapiens sapiens.

Oh irony, being lectured in racism by a country which accept it with open arms.
  • 1 4
 @opignonlibre: so, despite being a UK company, your cultural imperialism theory still holds plenty of water.. seems a bit snowflaky. Can't expect much more from one of these deep thinkers who “dossn’t see race” I think you’re getting caught up in scientific syntax. Yes, we’re all human. But that doesn’t erase stereotypical bs, does it? It’s really not that complicated.
  • 2 2
 @emptybe-er: well, I don't think it is universally accepted that using / making fun of stereotypes is a racism/acceptance problem, especially when said stereotype is not in any way viewed as negative.

It is different saying "women are shit as driving", which is a negative stereotype, and at the same type statistically wrong and saying "maybe I can start a rap carreer" when you sport braids that is very common among black hip hop singers.

Oh and you "scientific syntax" point is the same as saying I am not racist because I have a black friend. Caucasian, black, latino, asian, whatever, are not races. Period.
  • 39 18
 Pinkbike, for gawds sake, can we just focus on bike and biking related stuff, the politicization of all things biking is getting to be over the top.

So I’ll appeal to your bottom line:

Dear Outside magazine,

I do not read Pinkbike to learn about politics, issues relating race, sex, class, culture, etc.

I read Pinkbike for mountain biking.

I work in mental health, I spend the majority of my waking hours hearing about, taking about, and responding to stressful issues.

I don’t come to the Pinkbike site to hear about stressful issues.

I come to the Pinkbike site to relax and read sboit mountain biking.

If you don’t get a handle on your content, you will lose me and many others.

We are all burned out on this stuff.

Thank you.
  • 18 26
flag DigRideRepeat (Jul 31, 2021 at 0:39) (Below Threshold)
 @nurseben then you know well not to speak for others

Leave if you want, but I for one see this as an opportunity to address bias and inequality in our MTB community. It’s long overdue
  • 4 12
flag Blownoutrides (Jul 31, 2021 at 3:50) (Below Threshold)
 Ohhhhh did this invade your little bubble bro??
  • 4 4
 Seriously, if it bums you out why on earth would you be btl on an article about racism? There’s like 10 other articles from today.
  • 21 0
 It’s not important to have “correct think”, it’s just important to be seen to have it. Virtue signalling corporations are the lowest form of life, pretending to give a crap all to maximise profit. “Reeducation programme” are you mental? What planet are you people on that you are inventing your own Orwellian 1984? The fact of the matter is you are white middle class idiots being offended on behalf of people that are not even offended. You live in a juvenile world on bended knee persistently apologising for your genetic heritage. This bull rap has been taylor made by the elite to sow seeds of massive division in society and you are falling for it hook line and sinker. I have sent this article to several friends of colour and not one of them is offended by what they did but they are seriously offended by white middle class drones being offended on their behalf. The real racism here is morons like this finding themselves so unbelievably condescending and superior that they think they have the right to pull this b******t.
  • 5 0
 The sad thing is I believe we're past the point of return. These people have seriously embraced the cult and there's no coming back. The future will be interesting. You'll have one group constantly looking to be offended and the other group that just no longer cares. Let both sides go their own way and live how they please.
  • 42 22
 Sad that a simple joke is taken so far out of context. Wearing corn rows and listening to rap music has now become rasist if youre not of color.
  • 12 9
 Talking about it is racist as well it seems. See below threshold.
  • 8 22
flag EnsBen (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:34) (Below Threshold)
 damn right it is, because it's cultural appropriation, which is racist. go back to 1950
  • 2 0
 Simple Jack? Oh sorry, read that wrong, joke, ha, oops....
  • 33 16
 All this because of terrible music taste ... If only all these pri riders could stop listening to Rap and listen to music that is appropriate to listen to for white people like country, classical or metal none of this would happen. Bring back the old days of our white people sport with white people music so we are sure we won't offend anyone by singing words that are not appropriate for us white people and won't steal some other people culture ! Sounds like so much fun ...
  • 19 1
 Modern slavery take the form of kids mining cobalt and lithium in Congo, for the pleasure of eBikers www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPFc3Ddpiug

A far bigger problem than the N word.
  • 17 1
 Lesson to be learned: kids, pros, people, stop putting your private jokes all over the internet. What you believe is funny and innocent will send you right into a sh*tstorm.
  • 31 15
 Good to see some real consequences to an action that wasn’t meant to build community or sport.
  • 19 4
 Wait, so muc-off is no longer sponsoring the commencal 21 team, but they are still sponsoring commencal/muc-off where Amaury is actually riding for?
  • 5 1
 Yes. This makes absolutely no sense. Punitive measures doled out to a different team for actions by him? This doesn't clarify anything.
  • 13 2
 @chezotron: The other team is where the IG story originated.
  • 12 0
 @brianpark: still seems odd that Angel and Pau lose a sponsor while Amaury keeps his.
  • 3 8
flag Simonet1999 (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:46) (Below Threshold)
 @brianpark: not true
  • 2 0
 It's confusing messaging
  • 17 4
 People need to teach that athletes are not role models. they are athletes, use your teachers and community leaders as role models. An athlete can be a teacher and community leader and role model but they are one of the same.
  • 4 8
flag Jcolis1904 (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:01) (Below Threshold)
 That's were you're wrong. Athletes are considered a representative of a company and its morals, codes, etc. Since successful athletes may have a huge following, those followers link those actions to the company.
  • 8 1
 @Jcolis1904: So as a representative of Muc-off (which I doubt he had any say on) Amoury should've been endorsing the use of scantily clad women in their adverts to sell product a couple of years ago right?
  • 21 5
 Its racist to say what others can or can't say based on their race.
  • 16 1
 Oh good - more lifestyle articles designed to inflame the readership and generate clicks.
  • 10 0
 it's the outside way.
  • 7 0
 Sooo.. where are we going to? I think I have about 30 days max left of tolerance for this sort of content. Unless, much like the ebike filter, PB makes available a 'clickbaity off topic BS' filter so I can just enjoy bike content again.
  • 2 0
 @mikealive: i have to admit i agree
  • 20 6
 Aren’t muc-off actually the ones creating the racial stereotypes? They’re essentially saying that only black people can have corn rows?
  • 7 8
 And for that, we thank them.
  • 12 2
 In the UK most white people who've sported dreadlocks have gravitated to the left of the political spectrum. I bet they never dreamt they'd end up getting called out for being racist. An in-law of mine was recently reprimanded for having a flick of eyeliner, apparently it made her look Asian and was offensive. The world's gone fucking mental.
  • 14 1
 FINALLY WE FIXEd racism...bravo!...this world is dumb and oversensitive while omitting real source of racism...we are drowning in unintelligent burn of desire to do something good...but low IQ is manifesting
  • 15 1
 So, I grew up in South Africa during the apartheid era, we’re known for the gold standard of racism. This isn’t racism. Just a pair of clowns with a poor sense of humour.
  • 15 0
 Muccoff gives lessons while polluting with their shitty chemical. Boycoot Muccoff
  • 12 0
 I am 100% against any form of racism and i'm sure so is AP.

But while Americans might be very sensitized by this words, other parts of the world might see this a bit less dramatic.

Reminds me very much about all the FUZZ this song created back in the day and how the band was labeled as racists before people even tried to understand what it was about. They just heard the N word and DONE.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ng1ovEr46c
  • 12 0
 Let’s see how this works: you can’t use a word regardless the context but you can ride bikes built in growing economies in questionable conditions (according to western standards), ride ebikes or use phones which batteries are made of minerals extracted from earth in conditions which are the closest you can be to real slavery, wear clothes manufactured in countries with Dictatorship as governments which won’t allow you to investigate any kind of child slavery…

Yep, if there was stock exchange on hypocrisy its prices would be out of charts now.

People, this kind of fake moral (online) superiority show is pretty close to that exhibited by conservatives 40 years ago
  • 12 0
 A sign-o-the-times if there ever was any. People have got their social cred so far up their backside that it’s actually impeding proper brain function.
Amaury did the right thing : made a mistake, apologized for it. Good guy. No one in their right mind would consider this intentional, deliberate racism.
Muc-off’s reaction is such a display of stupidity and hypocrisy.
Hello Muc-Off PR/Marketing : has it crossed your mind that this could have been leveraged in about 2 millions other ways to raise awareness, maybe first by using the saving you are making on these products to make an awareness campaign, or donate that money to a group acting against racism, etc etc.
Instead, with this half assed measure, you demonstrated that your support to the team is 100% façade, 0% partnership. Certainly informs me more about you than about Amaury.
  • 12 0
 You made adult athlete Amaury to undertake an education programme even though you cancel the marketing program?

Muck off - f*ck off.

He did say he is sorry, he really did and he really regret it. I agree that was stupid and I would never say that.

Still this cancel culture is crazy for me. Yeah, stone him !!!!
  • 48 37
 Jesus, I mean really? Pick ANY rap song and you will hear N word 50 times in 3minutes. It used to be " you the ones where we learned it from, I heard nigga back in 1971", but it´s rap culture that keeps it going, not that many white guys in it ehm? A lot of racers listen to rap, so they learned something, boo hoo. Pathetic this whole black lives matter. There were white people abused and even killed by cops, I don´t remember any public outrage though.
  • 34 11
 I'm okay to take downvotes but It's just americans that are so sensitive about it,Rest of the world doesn't care much about a word. Also if Amaury was a black person it wouldn't bother anyone but here we are
  • 12 8
 @Noeserd: Yep, racist being sensitve about being called racist. Comedy.
  • 11 4
 @Mondbiker We have a biscuit literally called negro, Either people are getting too upset on a word or my nation doesn't care.
  • 2 18
flag jin-sandhu (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:54) (Below Threshold)
 Racist prick
  • 1 4
 @Noeserd: black people across the rest of the world absolutely do care about the use of the word and people of black descent aren’t exactly a small part of the global population to generalise quite so easily. Please also don’t confuse the fact that the US is making the most noise (or being heard the loudest) on race matters with the level of care that the rest of the world places on such matters. I for one would have an issue if Amaury was black in the same circumstance as he would be one of very few black riders in the sport contributing towards the normalisation of something that absolutely should not be normalised - not exactly what’s needed at the moment in a sport that’s trying to reach out and broaden its appeal to new, wider demographics of riders from different races, genders and riders with differing levels of physical capabilities.
  • 3 1
 @Noeserd: one thing to add however; in my experience Turkey is a stand out for me of a country that many others could learn from in how they treat others from different backgrounds; that is with relative indifference. I can’t say that I’ve ever get that my skin colour has ever been a deciding factor in how people behave towards me in Turkey and that’s a pretty stark contrast when compared to my home country of the UK which often holds itself on a bit of a moral pedestal on matters such as this when by comparison, we’re actually lagging behind by quite a fair bit in a number of areas.
  • 2 1
 @arna86: Yeah maybe that's why i'm not that sensitive for a word, racism isn't a problem here unless you are a very very specific race
  • 5 2
 @Noeserd: It's a French based team, with a UK based sponsor, in a Swiss based sports league.

Where do the Americans come in?
  • 5 1
 @Jamminator: Americans have trademark rights on this word.
  • 1 0
 @CheryBomb: A single word is more powerful than the European Union and an independent nation? Interesting to know they're that weak.
  • 11 0
 So when a young guys in his 20s uses a bad word and then give some excuses, admitting that he didnt knew the exact sense in a foreign language, do you think this is worth all this BS??

Come on, try to excuse people sometimes, make the world better mountainbikers!
  • 13 1
 Heal up Amaury!!! From your injuries and this BS! Come out swinging on your return! I look forward to it !!! Most know you regret the post.....
  • 15 2
 virtue signaling at its worst! I'm disappointed in Muc-off. I like they products but this is just stupid.
  • 10 0
 100% derrière Amaury (même si son commentaire était pas super malin...)! C'est pas une marque de lessive qui va faire la loi. Et tout ces poseurs consensuels qui prétendent donner des leçons de morale et font désormais faire dans la réhabilitation et la délation, ce sont eux la plupart du temps les plus perverts ! C'est donc désormais à qui sera le plus soumis et non plus le meilleur. La dictature de la bienpensance... . L'homme reste libre, c'est clairement pas un détergent rose fluo qui va me faire baisser mon froc. Force et honneur (et f*ck-off à la poubelle)
  • 45 32
 Muc off are wrong on this won’t buy there stuff ever again
  • 16 16
 oh no!! what will they do now without your support???
  • 7 1
 @mariomtblt: they don’t do all that well to begin with lol
  • 2 0
 @mariomtblt: it depends how many other people think the same thing ,

Im sure whilst to many this is a storm in a teacup to others it might be a bigger thing

Its a bit like saying the comments here might be defacto opinion

I personally dont know anyone from a differing ethnic minority to my that even rides a bike let alone will have heard of muc off or this actual topic so its a bit hard to form any opinion
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: well it’s nice to meet you man, now you know one
  • 5 0
 Yep, add me to that list. Not giving muc off a single dollar ever again. Maybe it's a good thing they went mask off.
  • 28 16
 Do know what's also racist? Telling people that you can't get a certain haircut based on the color of their skin.
  • 13 4
 What has the world come too? The guy admits his wrong doing and they STILL take him to the cleaners. If it's THAT bad then PinkBike bike should be defunded (they shouldn't be) for saying" N..." We all know what that means, how THAT any different? This is ridiculous!
  • 1 8
flag DigRideRepeat (Jul 31, 2021 at 0:43) (Below Threshold)
 So saying you’re sorry should substitute for consequence?
  • 6 0
 @DigRideRepeat: Ppl make mistakes...have YOU ever made a mistake before?
  • 1 2
 @JSW07: of course I have, and the suffered the consequences of my action whether or not I apologized
  • 14 4
 Anyone want a drink some Modelo Negras throw on some NWA and discuss the hypocrisy of "words for me and not for thee", "hate" speech, "hate" crimes, and affirmative action on this fine Friday evening?
  • 10 0
 The only small amount of pleasure from I can gain from this shameful debacle is that some soyboy at mucoff spend a week building themselves up into a tearful rage about this non event.
  • 31 18
 More woked bullshit
  • 65 57
 The level of idiocy in this is off the charts holy f*cking shit. first of all. never buying muc off again. then, he obviously isnt racist since he was doing cornrows on himself, this implies he obviously likes that hairstyle. So this implies that he likes a part of black culture (if we can call a hairstyle culture, but anyway). What a f*cking clown world we live in. holy shit. look at the massive consequences a stupid word or an instagram post because it is "not sensitive". Who gives a f*ck if people are offended.Its not illegal (yet)(at the pace we are going it might soon be) to be insensitive. So what if his senegalese FRIEND gave him the n-word pass? would that make it ok? what if his friend though it was funny? still terrible? I honestly think that this kind of thing promotes a divide between people. FYI i think it should be seen as bad and not tolerated for a famous person to use the world as an insult , but this is not the case. also if this earns me a ban, idgaf. im so done with the comment section of this website.
  • 40 13
 It's called value signaling and company love to use it this day to promote themselves while they probably don't give a damn. Additionally it prevents any potential backlash from the SJW army. Indeed I have never seen far right skinheads wear cornraws and sing rap and using rap culture symbols on a regular basis but yeah, Pierron must be a secret KKK fan. As for culture appropriation it is fine when none white people do it but if for some reason when white people do it they get in trouble, usually by their own and a noisy minority, while the other realize that if someone appropriate some else culture it is because that person loves it and want to somehow be part of it. Most recent exemple is that kid that got surgery to look Korean and got shit for it, while Asians modify they bodies to look more occidental on a regular basis and every one is ok with it while it still is cultural appropriation. The culture of double standard is gonna lead to bad stuff in the near future.
  • 32 9
 bingo, if you are not racist, you don´t give shit about this in the first place, because you can hear it every time you listen to black music, how is that different? So much hypocrisy going on here, it´s pure comedy. It took less than a minute to get my comment below threshold, even if I said that SC bikes are overpriced, under engineered mass produced chinese piece of shit I wouldn´t get downvoted as quickly. Just like yours logical piece was downvoted before I finished writing my reponse. Cocksuckers.
  • 23 6
 @Balgaroth: Stop using logic you racist a*shole!
  • 2 10
flag Gristle (Jul 30, 2021 at 13:58) (Below Threshold)
 I guess muc off gives a f*ck if people are offended? They're entitled to that position and any action based on it. BTW you sound just as offended about this from the flip side to which some might say... who gives a f*ck?
  • 6 0
 Agree !
Hoped I won't have to write it down. Thanks @pablo-b
People take the simple way... Absorb media opinion and just copy-paste.
  • 5 1
 Couldn’t agree more gents.
  • 4 1
 @Gristle: you’re missing the point lmao...density off the charts.
  • 1 5
flag arna86 (Jul 31, 2021 at 6:40) (Below Threshold)
 @Mondbiker: that’s a nice sweeping generalisation about “black music”. It’s only one segment of music - that’s it. There are plenty of other types of music written or performed by black people that manage just fine without using the n word. It’s also not as if all black people are unanimously in support of the word being used in rap music, or common lexicon either. Do you actually know any black people personally, or does your entire sweeping generalisation of an entire race come from rap music?
  • 4 1
 @arna86: There's a song by the reggae band Steel Pulse called Ku Klux Klan. The lyrics are here if you're interested.
genius.com/Steel-pulse-ku-klux-klan-lyrics
Listening to it used to fill me with indignation, I used to sing along because I loved the song and the message meant something to me. Now I'm just another ignorant racist.
  • 4 0
 The whole point is to divide us all.
  • 32 20
 Welcome to the snow flake generation….
  • 8 0
 the weirdest thing about where we are with self sensoring is that we can even use certain words regardless of context. This reporter can’t even quote the actual words used in the post in his story. I assume what ever was posted was bad, but based on this article, I have very little idea what it is. Don’t make me go do research for such a simple thing. Just tell people what was said.
  • 8 0
 Simple question: if one reads Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn with its repetitive use of N-word and being taken completely out of context, would it sound racist when it actually isn't? Totally can be applied to this situation as well.
  • 11 0
 Sexism doesn't bother them, Muccoff apparently.
www.pinterest.fr/pin/397442735843810602
  • 13 0
 Muc-Off can f**k off
  • 11 0
 ridiculous; the boy made a mistake and apologized, he is obiously NOT a racist. muc off=f**k off
  • 8 0
 Wow! this is still going......Congrats Muc Off. Dude said sorry and your pathetic actions have trumped his, and created this heated thread getting everyone pissed off. . f*ck Off Muc Off. I guess there is an "I" in TEAM after all with you.
  • 11 0
 I'm concerned about subliminal racism in mountain biking. There are a lot of white guys riding black bikes.
  • 11 1
 Wait, so does this mean that he isn't sponsored anymore? I don't really understand this
  • 32 2
 Commencal 21 is a different team from Commencal - Muc-Off. Muc-Off is no long supporting Commencal 21, whose team manager posted the original IG story. Muc-Off is still supporting Commencal - Muc-Off, which Amaury rides for, and who have agreed to do some education on the topic.
  • 24 7
 @brianpark: So......like legit the lightest slap on the wrist ever.
  • 1 3
 @zstover: Its not to say others won't follow Muc-Off's lead. I'm sure there are plenty of discussions behind the scenes
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: Ohh, ok. Thanks for clearing it up!
  • 15 1
 @zstover: if you think he actually had a racist intent then yeah. If he didn't have a racist intent (nor the intent to commit suicide by social media) and is just the young ignorant dumbass he appears to be, then I expect he wishes the ground would just swallow him up right now.

What do you want? Tarring and feathering?
  • 6 1
 @zstover:

I was thinking 6 years solitary confinement was fair. But apparently the firing squad is the only way these days. Can we still stone people?
  • 6 1
 @Isthisonetakenthen: could always just bully him into suicide, much less messy. /s (in case there was any doubt)
  • 11 2
 Would be great to listen to Waki's opinion on this matter. But you know, he is not here anymore — people get cancelled for stating their views this time.
  • 3 22
flag jin-sandhu (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:52) (Below Threshold)
 Being racist isn’t a acceptable view idiot
  • 8 0
 Pulling halfway out-an insincere PR gesture that doesn't change the commercial relationship between the brands. I would expect nothing more from the preeminent sellers of overpriced dish soap.
  • 8 0
 Fkn joke . Yeh when a black dude will do a rip of of a white dude nothing said He was having a laugh amd the media blow it out to racism . The media should hang their head in shame
  • 7 0
 I know a little Amaury and Charlie, one is French, the other Spanish. At home in France, we do not have this story on racism as in the United States. Especially our generation, we have lived almost without racism, because here the diversity is great and everyone lives mixed. There is no white group or black group.
In fact when we listen to US rap music, we like the rhythm, we listen to the lyrics, but we Europeans don't know the bottom of the story, so we sometimes repeat the lyrics without knowing the meaning, and That's what happened.
Do you know the history of France?
The sanction taken by MUC-OFF is pitiful. They wanted to surf the event and we tried to ridicule AP and CJ. I threw away all of my MUC-OFF products and will never buy them back.
  • 3 0
 Bro, même si t'est énervé tu devrais quand même garder le produit (quitte à changer l'étiquète ou la bouteille) et l'utiliser afin de ne pas balancer cette merde dans la nature.
  • 23 13
 Maybe they should first focus on making their lubes last longer than 50km
  • 8 1
 So muc-off are still actually sponsoring him? But they aren’t sponsoring the other team, that he doesn’t actually ride for?

That’ll show him.

Come on muc-off, if you are going to punish someone then actually do it.
  • 4 0
 Next weeks news muc off deny claims its just TFR in a bottle , someone does some digging and finds out it isnt its really watered down TFR in a bottle , internet goes into meltdown
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: it’s all too much!!!!!
  • 2 0
 @Cord1: turns out its powder in a bottle and a ropey advert portraying a drugs deal going down
  • 20 11
 Can I still sing along with Clawfinger and Ice T these days, or should I just trow everything away?I feel racist right now.
  • 27 9
 White people music is all you are allowed to listen for now. And within a few year only music and stuff from your own country, region, village ? Otherwise you might be appropriating some else culture you know.
  • 18 4
 @Balgaroth: Now you are bit too generous, in few years you won´t be able lo listen to anything what you haven´t recorded yourself.
  • 19 10
 Serious question… How many videos using music like this has pinkbike posted over the past decade?
  • 8 26
flag EnsBen (Jul 30, 2021 at 14:33) (Below Threshold)
 it's not the act of listening to music - it's repeating words and phrases that are completely inappropriate coming from someone's mouth that isn't A) black, and B) mindful of cultural appropriation that comes across purely as distasteful and potentially racist
  • 30 4
 @EnsBen:
Is humming along ok? And what if nobody is around, can you then sing along? What about quietly whispering? Or is this all getting a bit rediculous?
  • 9 1
 @EnsBen: What’s the difference between singing a song or playing it? Do you not sing along to songs in your head? Is singing along to a song about murdering someone ok?
  • 20 4
 @EnsBen: Its racist to say what others can or can't say based on their race.
  • 12 0
 @Randy-Verified: yeh. I listen to a lot of heavy metal. The lyrics to me are comical. And I also I do not rape or kill anyone. And I care not for Satan. Or Jesus they both seem like dicks.
  • 2 0
 @solf: @solf: What on earth do any of those things have to do with metal?
  • 2 10
flag jin-sandhu (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:45) (Below Threshold)
 @cvoc: Stop being so reductive listening to music is obviously fine and saying it in ur head also ur trying to make something that is quite simple complicated don’t take the piss out of people of colour for there race including saying racist slurs it’s not that hard
  • 2 13
flag jin-sandhu (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:46) (Below Threshold)
 @hamncheez: not really is it that’s basically the equivalent of saying why can’t I go into the woman’s changing rooms that’s sexist u knob head
  • 11 2
 If a tree falls in the woods and someone posts it on Instagram does it still blow up in your face?
  • 9 0
 did Muc Off stop sponsoring Steve Peat when he was doing his Tanned Bastardos mexican thing? I am genuinely asking...
  • 5 13
flag jin-sandhu (Jul 30, 2021 at 16:51) (Below Threshold)
 Was a different time as a culture we accepted casual racism so wouldn’t have been called out for it
  • 11 3
 @jin-sandhu: casual racism, you say? People mimicking other cultures in non-aggressive manner is never racism — it's acting.
  • 1 4
 @CheryBomb: saying the n word isn’t mimicking other cultures is it
  • 9 1
 @jin-sandhu: That word was a part of song's lyrics, i.e. Amaury was directly quoting black songwriter. Would you call historian that citated some awful Hitler's speech a nazi? I bet not.
  • 1 8
flag Narro2 (Jul 31, 2021 at 17:16) (Below Threshold)
 @CheryBomb: what? That comparison doesn't make any sense
  • 12 3
 Careful it’s all someone else’s bad day cancel culture is coming for you
  • 11 3
 Maybe yurop still has a sense of humor even if it's poor humor. North America has none any longer. I miss Chapelle show from when folks could make jokes.
  • 4 0
 The Chapelle Show could not be produced in today’s over sensitive climate where everyone is offended by the least offensive things. AP had zero intention of offending anyone. It was supposed to be lighthearted and funny, which is something that is no longer allowed. Comedy and humor are dead.
  • 24 15
 Pink Bike could we get a Virtue Signal button please? It will save so much time.
  • 8 1
 HaHa, What hypocrites. They market a brand to children thats a deliberate play on words muc-off/f@c-off. similar to French connection uk -fcuk. Would any of us want to be judged by by a brand like muc-off??
  • 10 4
 Cancel culture at it’s best - make a (stupid) mistake, realise it was a fault, apologise... we still withdraw and publicly blame you because from one minute to the other this ONE mistake is so bad we decide that from sponsoring you we totally oppose your whole career (and the rest of the team that did nothing wrong)

Maybe everyone who is not of Muc-off’s opinion should also take “direct action “
  • 10 0
 what a freaking over-sensitive world.
  • 12 1
 muc-off can fuc-off
  • 8 0
 Lamest thing ever from Muc Off. Would had been enough saying: guys this is not ok, just don't do it again.
Will steer clear from their products from now on.
  • 8 0
 Hey Muc Off, how many black athletes do you sponsor? How many black employees work for your company?
Thanks for being the white savior.
  • 6 0
 Guess I’ll pull my support from muc off products... Hate these holier than thou brands. They have to try and shame this guy instead of just telling him, hey maybe don’t do that next time. They’re just using this as free advertising of look how some we are! Not saying amaury was smart on this, but kind of not cool to just say it’s all over after one f*ck up. Dish soap and other chain lubes it is! See ya muc off.
  • 7 2
 Lyrics by Clawfinger:


Goddamn my man you see I can't understand
Why you wanna say nigga to your brother man
Talking black pride then you call yourself a nigga
Don't bring yourself down 'cause it just don't figure
Take a look at yourself and your history
You don't look like a goddamn nigga to me
It's a negative word and the white man made it
Gave you a name to dominate and trade it
Making blood money of his very own race man
And all of this because the colour of your face man
Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
Placed and educated in a neighbourhood of crime
Taught from the beginning that you weren't worth time
Liquorstore and gunstore next to one another
With only one purpose so you all kill each other
Leaving one less problem to worry about
That's the way they do it this is how it turns out
And justice for all with the American goverment
I wanna know where all the goddamn money went
We didn't see it and it didn't do no good
I guess you couldn't give a f*ck about a black neighbourhood
Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) You're the real n*ggers
(Nigga) You're the real n*ggers
(Nigga) You're the real n*ggers
(Nigga) You're the real n*ggers
There's always gonna be fanatical minorities
The Ku Klux Klan and f*cked up authorities
Conservative c*nts and religious preachers
I don't care cos they ain't our teachers
Living a life they say is free from sin
Then they judge another person by the colour of their skin
I feel ashamed of myself I'm a white human being
Surrounded by suckers to afraid to be seeing
There ain't such a thing called superior race
And there ain't nothing special 'bout colour of your face
You've got a one way ticket to a dead end street
The pressure is on so feel the heat
Media pollution is a very bad solution
Hypocriticat hype is your only contribution
So leave us alone and give your brothers some space
'Cause you're a lousy contribution to the human race
Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) Nigga
(Nigga nigga nigga nigga) You're the real n*ggers
(Nigga) You're the real n*ggers
(Nigga) You're the real n*ggers
(Nigga) You're the real n*ggers“
  • 5 0
 It's hard to deny that when you consider the current and "global" culture/sensitives surrounding the issue of racism, AP displayed a pretty serious amount of ignorance and/or naivety - particularly for someone with a decent amount of public presence. At the same time, simply b/c this is the culture we live in currently does not necessarily make it "good". While having socially "enforced" norms, traditions, values, customs, etc. is as old as human civilization itself, it strikes me that we are in the midst of a pseudo-religious moral panic that has all of worst parts of religion without any of the good.

I read something a few years back about Christianity being in "crisis", with church attendance and Christian affiliation both dropping dramatically in the developed world. As a result, there was a ton of internal surveys and self-reflection going on to figure out why. One of the key takeaways was the conclusion that religion is at its strongest when it is seen as essentially a personal life guide by which one can live a better life. But, it's at its weakest when it is seen merely as a set of rules, the violation of which results in punishment, shame, etc. People seemed to report that the latter was saddling religion the most.

Today's "social justice" culture strikes me as having a very similar problem. All the hallmarks are there. Simply replace "racism" with "adultery" or "homosexuality" or "buggery" or "witch craft", and there's very little difference in how people are acting today in comparison to any garden variety religious witch hunt of the past. The culture is obsessed - almost lustful - for finding "sinners/blasphemers/[racists]", calling them out, shaming them, re-educating them, etc. There's hypocrisy too. Just like 90's preachers who railed against "the gays", who ended up being gay themselves, how many white Gen X/older millennials decrying AP today, dropped n bombs during the halcyon days of "gangsta" rap in the '90's/early aughts, back when your whole life wasn't online and the consequences were less to non-existent? I'd guess quite a few. Simultaneously, there's no overarching story, wisdom, guidance, etc. behind the "rules" of social justice. It is, effectively, just a nakedly punitive movement.

Of course, none of this is to say that AP didn't transgress an important value. My critique is the almost puritanical, public pile on approach to dealing with such transgressions - which ideally wouldn't be catastrophized to such a degree and dealt with more privately. Jonathan Haidt does a lot of work in this space, and he pins a lot of this to social media. Entire news cycles, for example, are dedicated to a tweet where the substance is "X said Y offensive thing". And while perhaps this article is part of PB's shift towards incorporating political/social justice coverage to its website, my cynical side says these stories are basically "porn". They're here, not b/c they're serving some noble purpose of "ending racism", but b/c an article posted on 7/30 is still getting tons of hits and rage comments today, and will continue to for days and weeks ahead. You will note that vitalmtb apparently did not cover this story; which is to their credit, in my book.
  • 4 0
 I was reading your post, nodding along when I began to think 'I should recommend to this guy the recent Walk-ins Welcome podcast with Jonathan Haidt'... then, sure enough, you mention him by name! Good call. And great examination of the current landscape on your part.

I've only discovered Haidt's work within the past 2 years or so, but cannot recommend his findings enough! Great insights for anyone who spends any amount of time online every week (many of us). Haidt is a PhD in Social Psychology, and well credentialed, published and cited. For anyone who is curious or looking to make sense on why suddenly 'everyone seems so crazy' these days, well worth a listen to that episode mentioned above.
  • 4 0
 @mikealive: Yeah, he's been very much on the forefront of this phenomena. It all started with his 2015 article, co-written by another very insightful person, Greg Lukianoff, in the Atlantic, the "Coddling of the American Mind":

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356

He's been almost prescient. I highly recommend anyone interested in this space to start following him.

It's been said before that the modern information stream is such that the world is whatever you want it to be. This is not meant to be some sort of silly cliché or bromide. Rather, it's a comment on scale. At any given moment, obviously, there's offensive, racist, sexist, homophobic, what have you, things happening. Most of us, instinctively, know this. But, what warps it all is the fact that I can be almost anywhere (in the developed world at least) at any time and see it.

Therefore, it has never been easier for those that control information streams to craft narratives which trigger target audiences and, in turn, line pockets. We have generations of young people whose instinct is to live their lives publicly which, in turn, provides a steady supply of "rage porn" for cynical actors to peddle. What's troubling the most to me is that this vulnerability seemingly knows no boundaries. For example, our current "anti-racism" moral panic (along with other ones: see #metoo) is largely among the "intelligentsia" whereas previously moral panics were among religious fundamentalists. This suggests to me that moral panics are endemic.

As Haidt suggests, no advanced civilization has existed which didn't organize around a "sacred" belief system. But, the developed world is, ostensibly, becoming secular. And, if I could talk to my early aughts self, I would have said that was a good thing. However, as it turns out, the rise of secularism or, put simply, nonbelief, has not killed the strong human desire for meaning, purpose, etc...all of things that traditionally were moored by organized religion. So, what we may be witnessing is a sort of chaotic expression of "religion", but without it being grounded in any sort of cohesive religious belief system. If you think hard about "social justice", it really is just a loop of moral panics and is anathema to everything the enlightenment fought for. But, distressingly, "social justice" is almost ubiquitous at this point.
  • 56 49
 So I won’t be buying any Muc off products anymore... Pierron already apologized, so give it a rest.
  • 12 19
flag lucaj (Jul 30, 2021 at 13:06) (Below Threshold)
 I think sorry is a good start, but the thinking that leads to doing something that insensitive requires a bit more effort to undo. I suspect he will be a kinder more considerate person for doing the education course.
  • 8 7
 don't tell them that, they might go out of business if they hear that you won't get their products anymore...
  • 21 0
 @lucaj: There is no evidence that sensitivity training actually reduces prejudice. There is no evidence that offices of Diversity, Equity, and sensitivity increases racial diversity or reduces prejudice in the corporate or academic world. The average salary of a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion officer is over $200,000.

In my experience, sensitivity training just builds resentment and intolerance.
  • 4 14
flag lucaj (Jul 30, 2021 at 15:24) (Below Threshold)
 @hamncheez: @hamncheez: Whilst I'm sure there is some poor diversity/sensitivity training, surely there's merit to having some education regarding racism, especially if you find yourself accidentally being racist - in this case accidentally being very racist.
  • 13 5
 @lucaj: Its impossible to be "accidentally racist". Racism is the act of discrimination based on race. You can't accidentally discriminate.
  • 3 3
 @hamncheez: yeah fair enough. But I guess I'm trying to distinguish between overt hate (proud boys or edl) and doing something well dumb and insensitive.
  • 7 0
 @lucaj: re-education isn't enough. Send him to the gulag for ten years hard labor first. He must repent for his sins.
  • 26 20
 Thank god for being able to read below threshold comments, that´s where all people with rational thinking are having a good laugh lol.
  • 8 0
 This article has prompted a microcosm of big tech censorship in real-time & sped up ten fold.. its fascinating to behold...!
  • 5 0
 @CDT77: I slum it down here for exactly the reason you mentioned lol
  • 3 0
 @CDT77: For some reason, where there are fewer than about twenty of each, the downvote to upvote gap is almost exactly 2 right now. That can't be co-incidence.
  • 6 1
 No judging here and I'm sure I will get downvotes into oblivion, but every time there is something like that happening, I remind myself with this speech of Barack Obama www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaHLd8de6nM
  • 2 0
 solid post
  • 7 7
 It's almost criminal that the US had to swap this guy for Trump.
  • 1 0
 @JiminOz: should 63 million US citizens bare penal responsibility for "criminal" act of voting for their candidate?
  • 2 1
 @CheryBomb: I did say "almost" criminal.
  • 1 1
 @JiminOz: Well, "almost criminal" should fall at least into administrative infraction or misdemeanor.
  • 4 3
 @CheryBomb: whatever the verdict, the US managed to swap one of the best ever for one of the worst.
  • 9 1
 A bit of an over-reaction in my opinion.
  • 8 0
 Bubble wrap for sale, $9.99 a meter
  • 8 0
 Muc off full of chemicals taking the moral high ground
  • 8 0
 Oii!! They will now go by Fuc Off. Because that is what they need to do.
  • 5 0
 This feels like a free marketing splash from Muc-off, if they felt so strongly about it surely they should of stood strong and pulled the sponsorship completely. Paying for treatment is ridiculous.
  • 8 0
 What an overreaction. No more Muc Off products for me
  • 4 0
 Oh les americanos de mes couilles! Vous arrivez pas à comprendre que la langue natales d’Amaury n’est pas l’anglais et que lorsque l’on entend ce mot prononcé dans la plupart des paroles Hip-hop on peut se dire qu’on a le droit de le dire et facilement faire cette erreur…
  • 53 50
 Let me be the first to tell Muc-Off to F#$% off! He used a song by black artists using a racially hurtful (only when used by whites, you can see how this is a problematic premise by itself), he apologized and adjusted his behavior, and we forgave him and moved on. What the hell is the class going to teach him anyway, "don't listen to rap music by black artists?" It's officially gotten out of hand and it's high time for people of all backgrounds, races, sexes, and so on, to come together out of a sincere desire for equality and respect to say "enough."
  • 21 26
flag Linkpin (Jul 30, 2021 at 13:16) (Below Threshold)
 Can you think of any reasons why a word historically used by white people in the subjugation, mass abuse and inhumane treatment of black people might still be problematic when it comes out of a white person's mouth?

Would you agree that people who have been suppressed, or whose heritage is steeoed in suppression, have every right to reclaim the subjugating words of their suppressors, whether that's to do with race, sexuality, religious beliefs or any other reason why people have historically been mistreated on a huge scale?
  • 23 8
 @Linkpin: what does this reclaiming achieve? If the word is derogatory , it is derogatory, it does not matter who used it..
  • 5 16
flag Linkpin (Jul 30, 2021 at 13:38) (Below Threshold)
 @GZMS: Take some time to look up the fascinating process of Linguistic Reappropriation. For some examples of words that have had their sting taken out of them by being reclaimed, try 'jew', 'queer', 'Yankee' and 'cavalier'.

Simply put, it's a way of a person or group taking back control of language designed to control them.
  • 8 3
 @Linkpin: not sure what cavalier means, but jew is a normal word to be used by anybody of any race or religion… so either it was not reclaimed (because it wasnt really a derogatory word, to begin with), or the reclaiming of the N word works somehow differently..
  • 13 4
 It´s gonna teach him that black people have rights to say N word but white people don´t god dammit. You must be racist if you don´t get it. Shame on you. And don´t even think of listening to rap music, that is also only for black people. Screw eminem, he is mistake in the system kind of like Michael Jackson.
  • 4 3
 @GZMS: Here, I've Googled it for you:

"Cavalier (/ˌkævəˈlɪər/) was first used by Roundheads as a term of abuse for the wealthier royalist supporters of King Charles I and his son Charles II of England during the English Civil War, the Interregnum, and the Restoration (1642 – c. 1679). It was later adopted by the Royalists themselves."

The word 'Jew' has historically been used by many cultures in a perjorative way. There are many examples in English dramas from the middle ages, for instance. In some cultures it is still used as a perjorative term. See, in Slavic languages, the word 'Zid'.

I don't know your background, of course, but it's a mistake to think that the way you use a word is the same as it is used across the world and throughout history.
  • 17 4
 @Linkpin: @Linkpin: To cut out all of the academic fluff, of which I'm well versed in too and often used to obfuscate what I'm about to say, equity and reclaiming, etc., are code words for various degrees of score keeping and revenge. The N-word is a hateful derivation of negro, which was and is a latin based term for black, the english version of the word. There is no proper use of the N-word by anyone, double standards and "equity" are breeding grounds for further racial hatred and conflict. What do you think's going to happen when after a few generations white people grow insane and hateful as a result of being punished (equity) their distant ancestor's faults? It's either not ok by all, or ok for all. Nearly every group on earth has been conquered, subjugated, mistreated, enslaved, etc. How far back do we go for equity? We stop now, accept there has been unequal treatment, we strive to create equality of opportunity (NOT equity), and we move forward. Failure to do this means the cycle never ends...
  • 5 6
 @wasea04: In terms of equity vs equality, I see what you're driving at and think that would be great if it were realistic (I'd dearly love this to be the case for successive generations), but in a system that rewards those who start with natural advantages only the outliers amongst the disadvantaged will rise to the top given equal resources. Someone who inherits good crampons and warm gloves will get to the summit of Everest more quickly and with less effort than someone who tries it in hiking boots and bare hands, won't they?

I also think that's a tangent from the discussion about reclaiming words. I would say that someone who proclaims themselves to be 'queer and proud' is more likely to be shrugging off decades of abuse and suppression rather than trying to even the score. In my experience (which I accept is only one person's view) reclaiming language is far more about coming to terms with one's personal identity than it is about 'revenge'. I think that's as true of the N word as it is of any other reclamation - it's just that at the moment the N word happens to be one of the most prominent examples of the phenomenon.
  • 3 1
 @GZMS: using the word Jew usually is followed by saying something bad about them.
  • 2 1
 @giantwhip: yes, but the word itself is appropriate and not “reclaimed”.. pierron did not say N are *some bad stereotype*.. he said N are cool dudes basically.. and there is difference imo.. and i speak slavic languages, in most of them Jew is the main word for jewish people. In some it is not, but then no jews are using it when speaking that language. If something is unacceptable it is unaccebtable for everybody, and if you dont want to be called a word, dont call yourself that word..
  • 3 0
 @Linkpin: I respect your effort to dialogue, and I hear where you're coming from as well. At a meta level is this all human nature, especially the disparity that naturally occurs because while we are all equal before God, the law, and each other, we do have very different skills and capacities. And, by trying to correct our nature we are engaging in what equates to the same old outcomes?
  • 2 0
 @wasea04: I think there's truth in that, yes. But given what we know over history about human nature, we should probably keep working on it!
  • 3 0
 @Linkpin: Who reclaimed cavalier? Vauxhall drivers?
  • 35 28
 Excellent… Who should we destroy next?
  • 16 35
flag KonaTrevor (Jul 30, 2021 at 13:22) (Below Threshold)
 I think Amaury did a pretty good job of that himself, be a bigot and lose sponsorship.
  • 23 15
 @KonaTrevor: you previously posted a picture objectifying a female rider. You are supporting rape culture.
  • 10 4
 @KonaTrevor: you sound like you took this position after about 3 seconds of reflection. There's a lot for you to read in this and the last comment section that you clearly haven't bothered absorbing. Bigot... FFS
  • 7 3
 @Randy-Verified: Burn that witch!
  • 12 5
 Get woke, go broke. Muc off boycott?
  • 9 1
 Ban all rap music
  • 3 0
 Just wanted to share that there is absolutely no mention of this in the few French MTB websites I consult on a regular basis.
This is not to say it is right or wrong but just put a bit of context to this.
Racism is also a very sensitive topic in France but maybe in a different form than in the US. I think most of us would see this as kids "acting and joking" around their afro hair cut using US rap as part of the joke. I think they were completely oblivious to the fact that this would not go as a breeze with the american audience, plus that as public person they need to be very cautious on the messages they send to their fans.
But for us, French, I think the apologies (hope they were sincere) were enough. But I also understand that this is not the way it works and that actions were expected.

My 2 cents is that this was not racism but lack of education. So if there is an opportunity to raise awareness and connect people to each other, well maybe something good can come out of it. On the other I also hope that we can be reasonable and understand that being stupid/uneducated is different from being racist.
  • 3 0
 This makes no sense to me. I clearly do not understand how serious these things are.