We use Slack as our workplace communication tool at Pinkbike and we have a #randoms channel which we use to share an assortment of videos and stories from all corners of the cycling world and beyond... We thought a couple of the moments from the past week were too good not to share with a wider audience, so here are some of the highlights.
Heck yeah! Moss knows what's up! This heartwarming video shows him enjoying some Squamish trails in the right way. Not worrying about the latest gear or mountain biking fashion trends, Moss is just out there enjoying the ride, counting puddles and spreading the stoke. Congrats on your biggest ride ever Moss!
Calling the Police Because A Cyclist Doesn't Pull Over
From the highs of Moss to the lows of this entitled driver. After being held up on a narrow road by a cyclist, she decides to call the Police. Unsurprisingly, it doesn't get her very far.
A 16 Stair Boneless in London
Slim skies over the big set at St. Paul's Cathedral on a chilly day in London.—Thrasher
Kayaking at 100km/h on Snow
Watch in awe as Spanish kayaker Aniol Serrasolses descends more than 25 kilometers by kayak from Chile's snowy Volcano summit in the Araucanía region, through a forest culminating into a lake where he also manages to pull off the world’s first world’s first double kickflip on a kayak!
2020 has been a tough year for professional extreme kayaker Aniol Serrasolses. With competitions cancelled and mobility limitations between territories, the Catalan has taken advantage of this time of sporting hiatus to seek new challenges, explore new routes and find ways to take kayaking to the next level!—Red Bull Bike
Cyclist Throws Poop at Car (NSFW)
Police in Victoria, B.C are searching for a cyclist that threw his own faeces at a car following an altercation.
Following a collision between the driver and the cyclist on Yates and Cook streets, the woman locked herself in the car so the cyclist pulled down his pants, defecated in public and threw his own feces at her car.
“Thankfully, there were a lot of witnesses who intervened because they were fearful the driver would be assaulted,” said Victoria Police Const. Matt Rutherford. “A lot of people took photos and video and we are working on locating the suspect.”
Police are on the lookout for a man approximately 35 years old, five-foot-ten inches tall, with a brown beard. He was last seen travelling southbound on Cook Street on his bike and didn’t appear to be hurt. He fled the scene wearing a brown sweater and blue jeans. The woman was not hurt.
I'm gonna get deservedly killed for this, but the hell with it. There's something that happens to rich, idle women that shorts their brains out. The wealth, entitlement, idleness, and misplaced desire to protect their children rots their ability to be rational or empathetic. To be sure, men do this as frequently if not more, but it manifests in different ways...
pretty much how we ended up with so many militant mask pushers. People without any sense of meaning in their life suddenly feeling that they have impeccable understanding of very complicated scientific data, and use that perceived moral high ground to try and flex their power. we now have pro vaccine and anti vaccine karens. fuck.
Recently, there sure seems to be a surplus of white SJO Karens out there making everyone miserable. Some of the most entitled hypocrites ive ever run into.
Lastly, I just would have ridden around that cow, and left her standing there in the middle of the road, holding her electronic woobie like the moron she is.
I'm not sure how we've determined she's rich, but a) what happened to the good ol'days where driver's expressed displeasure by giving the finger and driving on. It was so much more efiicient than stopping to talk about your feelings. and b) thanks for the reminder of why I only ride off road.
@thebetageek: @thebetageek: you're literally the embodiment of my point lol. you can't handle the idea you might be wrong so you just plug your ears and call everyone dumb. small dick energy for days.
@thebetageek: you're calling me racist but also dictating what I can and can't identify as? So you're the jury on personal identification? Ya ok. bigot.
you accidentally just exposed yourself as a racist and sexist, nice.
@Adamrideshisbike: exactly. I'm not downplaying severity at all but it's irritating that everyone suddenly considers themselves the forefront of scientific thought just because they've read/listened to a few talking points and vehemently avoided and condemned others.
@TotalAmateur: Listen your probably not a minority I have never said or expressed anything remotely racist or sexist Its racist to identfty as another race Im a minority and most others find it absolutely racists what you are doing trans is absolutely fine but I draw the line a culturally approbating you are scum of the earth attacking people with no evidence I never said such a thing look through my history
@TotalAmateur: This isnt law and order I've said nothing racist or sexist when someone calls your bullshit out you can't point your finger and say "b b b Bigot' Im saying you can't identify as another race your an adult act like one.
@thebetageek: you tried to deny my autonomy for who/what I can identify as. Where do you get the right to do that? Are you now the judge and jury on what we can identify as? Why are you ok with me identifying as a another gender but not as another race?
Try as you might, you just exposed your bigotry and ignorance. sucks to suck.......bigot
@thebetageek: *you're So you continually attack my identity and you try to invalidate what or who I identify as, as an individual, and yet I'm the scum..... And you assume my ethnicity without even knowing what race I identify as. If you are offended by people identifying as something you don't agree with, then by definition you are being bigoted and intolerant. time to check your privilege.
You keep wading deeper into ignorant bigot waters, keep going.
@TotalAmateur: Another race is extremely racist you have no idea what its like to be a minority you are making a mockery of peoples culture. You've called me a bigot for finding you racist because you are you have no claim to a culture you were not born into. You can aprreacte it but going so far to try to become another race is too far so you just exposed yourself as a racist. Your igonorance thinking that by identfing as another race you are merely showing your affection. You're emulating something that is not yours to emulate
@shredddr - I am speaking from PC free, SJW free perspective (as some would know...) I disagree with you, this is gender neutral - I trump your prejudice with mine. When you see a SUV like Volvo XC90-60, the chances that it is driven by an entitled "count" are rather high. (not everyone driving a SUV in Europe is a "count"... just majority, no direspect meant, I am sure you who own a SUV and read this are a respectable human being - you are a MTBer after all - we're All friends here.
In my experience when it comes to aggression against cyclists, nothing beats 60+yr old males, followed shortly by +40yr old males working in construction. plumbers, carpenters, electricians. Women tend to resort to mental violence - she called a cop hoping they will make the cyclist feel miserable, by giving him a ticket, talking down to him. Delusional of course. Males prefer direct physical violence and they are quick to it too. They hit you with a bumper so you end up in a ditch. You choose which works better for you
@TotalAmateur: Identifying as a race you are not is like suddenly one day I was like hey i am now african american and than started saying n word when your not the idea of trans racial is utter bs
@speedy-fox2: if some dude would ride in the middle of a road for no reason at all, knowing well enough I am driving slowly behind him for a longer period of time, I would not call cops. But I'd tell him that while it is his right and the law is on his side, he must understand that laws of physics are not on his side and not all drivers are as understanding as me. The bigger and harder object will win. Even if you win case in the court you may be severy concussed and after several surgeries. Up to you decide whether the fight for right of passage is worth it but you may be ruining it for other cyclists by pissing off drivers for no reason at all. Then I'd wish him a good day.
I always ride far to the side on narrow roads when I hear the car coming, I call it basic human dignity... small move costs nothing and makes me a good amabassador for all cyclists. I can even wave and shout sorry/thank you! while smiling really wide. Just like I do when crossing the street when a car stops and let's me pass. Sticking to your guns and trying to make a statement will only make an angered driver even more angry at general cycling population and one day some miserable bastard will snap and hit an innocent cyclist. That's the way I see it.
@thebetageek: replace every “race” you just typed with “sex” and see if it comes off the same. The same argument could be made for sex, no? Glass ceiling, pay disparity, etc etc. one could argue that willingness to claim a persecuted race instead of ones own “privileged” race is noble and drawing attention to a social injustice. If I have learned anything in the past couple of years it’s that what and how you were born medically does not limit how you are allowed to self identify, so why should where you’re born be any different? unless of course your mad at them and enjoying your super high internet morality soap box.
@speedy-fox2: sorry bud, I think I might have given you the old thumbs down there! Oops! Apologies all round! Boris has let me have too many beers the fat fkr ! Yeah, that’s right, it’s somebody else’s fault! Not my fault at all! What I meant to do was thumbs up! Anyway, it’s not hard is it? It’s not about the law, his tights, her rights etc etc it’s about doing the right thing and letting people pass instead of being a smug f*cker with a camera saying ha ha teachers on my side and I’m not moving! Would be interesting to see how a lot of the commenters on here would react if they were twating down a trail at warp speed and then the same guy was in their path and won’t move because, guess what bendeckos........ the law says he can be! So ha ha, you’re stuck behind me and nah nah nah nah nah and I’m videoing it! Total fkn tit. If you’re riding a bicycle and somebody behind you is faster and wants to overtake, let them past....... unless you’re racing, then...... then let them half way past n give em the shoulder into the bushes!
@johne71: exactly. cyclists are just people on bikes. Some of them are total self centered aholes. Like one of big meme accounts posted a pic of two cyclists pointing at something with caption: “ hey let’s ride over the there in the middle, like a-holes”. Comments loosely spun around, “hate those cyclists” but it was lots of fun to read all in all. I personally believed it hit home very well. But... A cycling meme account midpack memes was quick to encourage followers to report the post or even ban the account since it promoted violence against cyclists... I promote verbal violence against idiots.
@snowwcold55: It’s not just wealthy people. There may be a correlation there but I personally know many wealthy people (I’m not one of them) who wouldn’t act so childish. The main problem is selfish people, generally. People who have no regard for their fellow human. And that attitude know no socioeconomic, race, sex, or other boundary.
@Adamrideshisbike: using this term with a negative connotation inevitably suggests that the critic is aware of existence of a being that is more intelligent and has higher moral standards... just saying
@Adamrideshisbike: you said “human nature” as if it could be a bad thing. Many people say so, as if they knew something better. Except they don’t. Unless they were abducted by transgender, vegan aliens
@thebetageek: I bet you feel the same about gender? So nobody gets to identify as anything other than what they're born as? OK BIGOT. Stop being such a close minded racist bigot and let people identify as what they want, you're not the authority on race or personal identification. STOP DENYING MY AGENCY a*shole.
@lifeofloon: @lifeofloon: the only reason why people are up/down voting my comment is they realize that there is no way of beating my argument and they either hate or love it. @thebetageek is clearly a bigot and wants to control peoples personal lives and what they identify as. Notice that they've been saying identifying as a race is ridiculous, but they wont say anything about gender, despite using the same exact arguments that transphobes us to discredit my racial identification.
@TotalAmateur: it has nothing to do with bigotry. It has to do with people keeping mind of matters of zero importance to them. You can identify as whatever you want. Live and let live, I will support fredom of identification. However I do draw a line for humans born with penis to enter ladies toilets, especially on campuses. I assure you there are more child molestors and rapists in the world willing ot take advantage of this progressive movement, than transgender folks who feel the urge to use the ladies room. You know, the actual big picture, taking a shot for the team. It's not exactly that hard to get into the fricking cabinet and pull out whatever you have there without feeling judged. Because that's much lesser of a deal to go through that than being raped by a psycho because some folks need to feel progressive. Often folks who seek attention by virtue signalling rather than actually honestly aiming to defend their friends from opression. You know, it's a bit hard to reconcile some agendas some people are pushing... a father of a daughter and a husband of a wife... BTW I won't reply to you
@thebetageek: So are you born into gender and not allowed to identify as otherwise? Are you the sole judgement on what people can identify as? there are less barriers for me to identify as a different race than as a different gender. face it. and all you're doing by trying to deny me my agency is gate keep the moral hierarchy that comes with critical race theory. you're way out of your depth.
You're digging yourself deeper the more you try to rationalize this.
@lifeofloon: did you just purposely misgender me after I've said like 8 times I don't identify as a male? Wow. bigot transphobe. way to show your true colors, Nazi.
@justwaki: thanks for your 2 cents I guess? if you were closer I'd give you 10 cents so next time you can afford to call someone who actually cares. cheers
@TotalAmateur: bahaha. It's obvious that you do not have a very diverse group of friends that you can have these honest hard conversations with so I will explain it a little more clearly for you. You can identify as whatever you want but the reality is, if you don't have the skin color you are claiming to identify with you will never be able to fully identify with the people of that color. The reason for this is because of your skin color society will never treat you the same way as those that are born with said skin color are. If you can't truly relate to the life experiences of those people born with that skin color you're appropriating the aspects of their culture you like while not having to live the day to day struggles of those born into the culture because of their skin tone. It's nice to think it's as simple as you want it to be but this is insulting to the struggles they have every day of their existence while you walk around living a completely different experience all because of the skin color you were born with. To your other point, there has been scientific proof that the brain chemistry of a person born Trans differs from that of their Cis born peers. Whereas there are no differences between races other than melitonin content.
@lifeofloon: so essentially, in your opinion, trans women will never fully be women because we won't have been born into it? So the struggle of being accepted is then exacerbated by narrowminded people like yourself who insist that I am only able to identify as what you feel is acceptable? The world isn't waiting on you to give your approval, and I don't need some narrow minded cis-gendered racial gate keeper trying to deny my identity. Still being a bigot. Go gas shake your fists at the gays and minorities in your neighborhood, you're already nailing the rhetoric for it.
Can you show me any research done on people who identify as trans racial, or are you just citing the lack of evidence as your evidence to the contrary? You really defeat your own argument the more you try to support it. Just accept it, you are a bigot, but even if you weren't, you can't think that people can change gender and identify as someone with completely genetic makeup, and NOT think people can do the same for race. You're ignorantly consistent, but rationally inconsistent. Fix it. Be less ignorant. Grow into a more mature person.
@lifeofloon: replace anywhere you are talking about trans racial identity with transgender and tell me you aren't being a bigoted transphobe who is denying others their identity. go ahead, I'll wait for my apology. Unless you're so set in your "Merica, muh racial superiority shall not be infringed" idiocy you can't recognize when you're being ignorant and literally cyberbullying people based on their identity.
@TotalAmateur: your ignorance is priceless. A male to female Trans has different brain chemistry than a Cis born male, as does a female to male Trans and a Cis born female. Not once did I invalidate the femininity of a male to female Trans nor would I invalidate the masculinity of a female to male Trans. My peers in the Trans and LGBTQ community would have a good laugh at your assumptions of me. As I stated before you can claim whatever identity you want but expext backlash from said racial/cultural groups when you ignore the struggles they deal with everyday that you will never have to deal with. You may deal with struggles from society as a Trans but they are different struggles than that of different cultures/races. If you can't live it you can't fully identify with it and skin color is one thing that can't be changed. One can physically change their sexual identity though. No I will not apologize to you for your own racial insensitivity.
@lifeofloon: "skin color can't be changed", you don't need to physically alter your body to identify as another gender, as physical body parts don't dictate gender. If genetic/physical composition doesn't dictate gender, then it doesn't dictate race either. You have yet to offer any scientific data on whether or not there is different brain chemistry for people that identify as different races. Nobody is arguing their is a difference in trans people, you're just using that bit of evidence to try and cover your lack of evidence, so you can continue pushing this opinion based agenda. Hey if you want to feel that you're the sole arbitrator on race and you feel like you have the prerogative to negate peoples agency online, you do you, but don't kid yourself by trying to act progressive or tolerant because you're just drawing your own bigoted line in the sand that you don't want people to cross because "muh racial identity/superiority must be protected" And also if your trans friends are laughing at people because of what they choose to identify as, I'd say you have some pretty immature and sophomoric trans friend who lack any sort of awareness. toddle-oo bigot.
@lifeofloon: not once did I claim or insinuate that I am marginalizing/ignoring the struggles of any race, religion, or ethnic group. Stop straw manning this argument just so you can feel ok with your intolerance. You are the only person drawing a line between being trans racial and disrespecting the struggle of different races, and I would only argue that trans women already face scrutiny from women who don't consider them "real women", so if that's your argument, I would suggest you take care to evaluate what side of that spectrum you are allying with.
@g-42: as someone on said island, but not in Victoria, I can assure you Victoria, especially downtown, is far from rugged. Bit nuts, a bunch entitled, but for sure the opposite of rugged.
Been desperately waiting for the border to open to get back up to Canada for some shredding, but if you guys have used all your pandemic time to start flinging doodoo at each other, ima maybe haveta rethink everything.
To be fair, a wee bit better than bullets, however, so ya still got that going for ya in comparison.
@Bob-Agg: I mistook the Langley incident for the one in Kamloops where those guys smeared shot all over the walls of a timmies. We are a bit too close to our shit flinging ape relatives these days!
All you have to do is look at our social culture and its no wonder why. Drama and social media is not a life.
This is the real reason we need more women mtbers, they need that good vibes outlet as bad as men do. I've noticed an inverse relationship to the amount someone rides their bike vs their "uptight" level.
There would have been gunshots about 2 min into that video if this was the USA.
Seriously, don't f with cars anymore. Be frustrated, let the injustice or class warfare give you a boost, and channel it into riding. Not going to win against a car, even if you are right.
(which is the other modern day problem, everyone has to insist they are right, and post their grievances someplace)
The British politeness of it all, quite enjoyed that one. I will say, the woman in the car must be an absolute joy to be around. She is at fault, no doubt and went ahead and wasted peoples time, money and resources, but the art of de-escalation would have have also saved the time, money and resources that were spent. Jeez, we can all just be quite the bunch of ar$3holes sometimes.
@nojzilla: Fair point, I’m willing to bet, a “Pip pip, cheerio” as she drove past the first time would have made for a much shorter video, and I would have loved to hear it.
I know stereotypes of that sort can get tiresome, but the British accent throughout made for a much more enjoyable video.
Well clearly this will be an unpopular opinion, but as much as the British woman is in the wrong, I can't find the cyclists behavior particularly endearing.
Yes, cyclists are allowed the full use of the road, and they should make the decision to use it when riding to the side puts them in a potentially dangerous situation.
Yes, the woman calling the cops was unintelligent and ridiculous.
But as a mountain biker involved in a perpetual struggle to keep on the good side of hikers lest trail access be cut off entirely, I find common curtesy goes a long way. In fact, being someone who bends over backwards to appease hikers, I find this cyclists level of arrogance when dealing with a motorist hard to even comprehend. I'm not a fan of his behavior any more than hers.
In my experience, every time I ride more to the side the drivers don't even make an effort to overtake, they just zoom by. And thats a problem, first I can't defend myself if I ran into a dead animal, broken glass or a pothole, and If I do, I might come in to the road in a way that the cars behind wont expect.
This said, I wouldn't even give a minute of argue with her, it will get you nowhere.
The problem is that if "courtesy" means "constantly accommodating and supplicating to drivers", at some point you're just reinforcing entitlement and bad behavior. It's not helpful either. And when you finish with "I'm not a fan of his behavior any more than hers", this starts to sound like bad faith. Her bad behavior is 100x more likely to kill someone. Knock it off with the false equivalencies.
Where I live, the answer to cyclist/car conflict seems to always be: cars get more, cyclists get less. In the pandemic, joyriding by drivers on mountain roads seems to have become a top hobby. Roads that cyclists used for years, with no traffic (since they don't go anywhere) are now full of people driving double the speed limit and making unsafe passes. A few cyclists have been killed or maimed already. Guess what the public safety response is? Speeding enforcement? Nah. Signage about passing on blind curves? Nah. Instead, crackdowns on cyclists for minor stop sign violations, and the building of "cyclist pull-offs", so that riders have to get out of the way to let cars speed. I'm done with accommodating car culture.
Oath, that cyclist came across as a mega dick for sure. He’d have done better to say “have a nice day” instead of wasting his and her time and raising their blood pressures.
This video isn't giving us a ton of information, but there is no indication that the woman was driving over the speed limit. This doesn't appear to be a particularly busy road, either. There are like 4 other cars in the 7 minutes of filming.
Again, I support cyclists using the roads, I support them using the full lane when they feel a car passing them would be dangerous. I also support cyclists on public roads having an appreciation for what can be a significantly slower speed that they ride compared with speed limits, and treating drivers with the same respect and humanity they wish to receive.
Now I stated I was a mountain biker, because that's my passion, but I do own a road bike and spend plenty of time riding it on public roads. Again, similar to my behavior on multi-use mtb trails, I have stopped and pulled over on the road so that cars could get by me when I wasn't comfortable going around a bend in the road with a vehicle approaching me from behind. I stopped. I pulled over. My life means more to me than the workout I'm trying to get.
I am sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble with your local mountain roads. It seems like a failure of law enforcement, maybe you can get a petition to a local representative. It's clearly not okay that people are being hurt where you live.
In this video, however, all I saw was an extremely arrogant cyclist baiting an extremely ignorant woman and so again, I'm not a fan of either one's behavior. This video is literally titled with her license plate number. Why? The only explanation I have is that he hopes people will recognize her plate and harass her. I dislike that he would make her vehicle information public and I dislike how he takes it upon himself to criticize her parenting and accuse her of neglect.
She is wrong, very wrong, but his handling of the entire situation, in my opinion, was deliberately provocative and so no, I am not a fan of his behavior.
Agreed. She was a dick calling the police, but he embodied everything people hate about road cyclists in the UK. Just because the highway code says you can be an entitled prick, doesn't mean you can't exercise a bit of common courtesy.
Yes, it's not really about road usage rights. The guy instigated this by being a self-entitled prick. It's the kind of behaviour that makes people lose control and do crazy things. The woman reacted the way she did, a man might have just run him over with the car or stopped and beat the crap out of him. Some people drive others to do things that are not in their self-interest. Not that I would condone such behaviour, but it can be though to maintain control with self-entitled pricks like this. It's not about being able to film, it's not about being able to ride in the middle of the road. It's just being... a self-entitled prick.
@nattyd: I see where you are coming from but I don’t fully agree. This is not a situation where two equal parts are negotiating access to a common face to face. Car, even a small one is disproportionately more massive and carries disproportionately more kinetic energy. Furthermore both parts have extremely limited ability to communicate. You can’t say “excuse me!” from a car, just like cyclist can’t say to a driver “sorry! I’ll move myself out of the way in 30 seconds”. Then you have zero ability to judge other persons intentions and attitude so assuming malice is not uncommon. When you assume malice you resort to aggression much quicker.
In my opinion both parties should do their best to communicate, cyclist with his body language at least showing he is trying to get out of the way, waving “please pass”, driver should keep his distance in worst case occasionally get to closer to signal their presence. After driver passes both should do a sign of courtesy, wave, blink as a mean of encouraging good cooperation.
Putting yourself in a position of a honey badger walking in between a pack of lions is in my personal opinion a rather failed strategy. We should also stop focusing on worst case scenarios. Whichever group of people you would analyze, cyclists, drivers, environmentalists, hunters, stoners - you will find a*sholes. By average We humans are still are too hasty to judge groups as a hole by behaviour of outliers. Either aholes or extra decent people.
@justwaki: I agree with pretty much all of this. I think it’s compatible with what I said. I’m not advocating obstruction, just that there should be no obligation of cyclists to prioritize convenience for cars over their own safe and legal road use. I’m sick of the “why can’t cyclists get out of the way” BS, because it presumes that the roads are for cars.
@nattyd: true. At the same time, it’s hard to talk about it on a global scale. Every country has different culture. In Sweden or Danmark drivers are much more respectful than let’s say in Poland or Italy. But man.. This turns cyclists to utter a*sholes her. And huh, road are not for cars only but around here bike paths are just for bikes and if you walk on a bike path or cross it, some may actually ride into you on purpose.
@justwaki: Yeah, I'm speaking from an American perspective, where bike infrastructure basically does exist and riders stare death in the face on every ride. I would love to have what you have.
@nojzilla: he was supposed to not act like a dick about it which he did. we all know motorists act like ass hats a lot of the time - his response was total provocation.
@a-d-e: how was he acting like a dick? Please explain into me........ He couldn't move over as there was nowhere to move over to, you can plainly see this in the video. It wasn't until the motorist had enough space to get beside him that she did, an began berate him. All the dude did was argue this point.... the motorist broke MANY UK driving laws in her tirade an then proceeded to make a fully unnecessary 999 call an waste the time of emergency services again something that she could've been prosecuted for here in the UK. All the while the dude pulled over an continued to film for his own legal an safety purposes. Again being non threatening an polite while the womans kids where obviously upset..... She was whole in the wrong.
@a-d-e: Just because he didn't take the high road in response to her doesn't make him in the wrong in any way. She pulled alongside him, she initiated the exchange and she called him arrogant for no justifiable reason. Pointing out that in fact she is in the wrong and she is being arrogant is completely justifiable. Once she accosted him he had no obligation whatsoever to kowtow to her bullshit for the sake of appeasement. If his response provoked her into wasting police time and mentally scarring her children that's on her. You shouldn't start an argument with a stranger if you can't handle an opposing opinion.
Frickin woman complains about cyclist riding on the right side of the road but drives in the wrong side of the road is just pure wrong! Then, her kid is crying and all she is worried about is the cyclist being in her way. What a joke! Maybe she thinks she's in North America where most sane people drive on the right side of the road
In Spainish roads,if you do the same that Karen do you are braking like 3 or 4 laws,very serious stuff. We had some bad incidents involving all kind of cyclist,due people like that. That karen is driving in the wrong lane,she drives parallel to the cyclist for long time (you must do it as quick as possible,overtaking a car or whatever could not take a minute cos you think it is fun to chat like that). With this video that Karen would be in the Guardia Civil station in no time with a good excuse to explain. We have new rules to overtake cyclist in Spain,you must brake to the cyclist speed,then overtake at 10-20 km/h faster than the actual cyclist speed. That means no one can overtake you at high speed in a narrow road. It is a very safe way to do it,safer that 80 km/h differential speed overtake. Police and G.Civil have 0 tolerance with this new rule if you mess up.
Kudos to that kid who kept trying and never gave up with that skateboard. It's frickin insane since he's not wearing any helmet but good on him to keep trying until he succeeded. I was really cheering for him to get it and he actually succeeded only to tumble over that damn curb pole block. D'oh!
Are we gonna get more Dirt carry-overs now Friday Randoms had become a PB thing? Gawton 1:04 would be good DH bikes tests done by actual downhillers? Euro-Pikey? Dirt 100? Maybe the Slack PB 100
Ordinary hard working Brits once again oppressed by the cycling illuminati. We at London Streets for All (landlords who don't live in London) are all that stand between freedom, "common courtesy", and the tyranny of tens of thousands of children not suffering from asthma.
Hold on everyone this is getting heated. What about the cute kid video. Well let me tell you about the cute kid. This kid may be cute now because he is slower than you but that will not last. In 5 years that kid will probably be doing backflips over your head and they won't be so cute anymore.
Been down this road before. One days it’s adorable to see a kid bombing to school, and the next, he is an absolute shredder who makes me realize that my lack of cardio is not holding me back nearly as much as my lack of skills. Thanks Jackson!
Perhaps it’s already been said, and in fairness I have no problem sharing the road with roadies, but what REALLY gets me pissed is when the Lycra folks ride two or three abreast, instead of single file. To me that’s the definition of entitlement.
What happened to acceptance? Im sure I can be me and you can be you and we can both be happy. We can coexist with you having your beliefs and me having mine and accepting that they might not be the same. Don't you wanna try it out?
Brown sweater. Appropriate colour for shit throwing.
Also how impressive was the dude in the Thrasher vid landing on his feet multiple times after bailing out, yet not breaking any bones.
I do find it a bit weird though,well here in the U.K anyway that when on the odd occasion some mountain bikers(myself included) are holding traffiic up we pull over and let the cars pass.But road bikers have no issues with having a que of traffic behind then for mile after mile,which then causes the cars to get frustrated and take unecessary chances to overtake putting the cyclist at even greater risk.Maybe some of the roadie fraternity can explain this?
Oh don't worry they do it here in the US too and it's annoying as hell. Even better when you're late for work because they've decided to take over the road that day. I just don't get the mentality. Some people are just assholes, it's so easy to pull over and let others pass.
It's not really mile after mile though is it? If someone has to wait a minute behind a cyclist or group of cyclists it would be incredibly rare, I can think of once or twice in 25 years of cycling where that's happened. It's they have to wait for a small amount of time to reduce the chance of killing someone and find it unacceptable.
@steveh951: come upto the Yorkshire dales on a weekend I'm sure I can change you opinion,its mental.A few of my buddies are roadies ,and the attitude is generally tough shit we'll take our time and the cars can wait.we have as much right to be on the road as cars do.It doesn't bother me personally but it is a thing
You put it as "but road bikers have no issues with having a que (sic) of traffic behind then for mile after mile"
Pretty obviously this is already poisoning the well with hyperbolic BS (nobody is being held up for "mile after mile". But it's also just a biased misstatement of the rules of the road. It presupposes that roads are for cars, that cars have first entitlement to them, and that cyclists on roads are interlopers and in the way.
But there's no legal or moral obligation for cyclists to "get off the road". Bikes have been on roads for longer than cars, they're a better way to get around many places in terms of cost, danger, environmental impact and even time, despite the fact that our societies heavily subsidize cars, fuel, insurance, and car infrastructure, when you consider all of the negative externalities.
An opposite framing would be "drivers have no problem endangering the lives of strangers to save 2 seconds in a car"
Besides moral and legal framing, the idea that bikes should get out of the way of cars is impractical and unsustainable both in the short and long term. I see the framing here as literally shortsighted. Driver sees cyclist, wonders why cyclist can't specifically accommodate him. But by extension, why you and not everyone else? So you're basically saying that the responsibility of getting out of the way should be constantly and permanently shifted to cyclists. In the short term, road riding would basically be impossible if every time you had a car behind you, you had to pull off the road. In the long term, you basically cede the road entirely to cars, as now the expectation is that it's the responsibility of cyclists to never impede cars.
@nattyd: obviously I can't speak for US and you may be correct for what you encounter in the US.It just need cyclist and other road users to use common sense,courtesy and appreciate each other.Here in the UK it's common place to see packs of 30+ social riders (20km an hour) riding on rural roads creating massive back logs in traffic.
@nattyd: it's just common courtesy though. Is it that hard to go single file and let others pass? I always give tons of room to road bikers for their safety and I know it can freak them out. Imagine a group of mountain bikers on the trail who decide to go 10x slower than everyone else and refuse to let anyone pass. The trail is obviously for their use too but they're being inconsiderate right? It's just so easy to not be a dick like that.
@nattyd: As per most things in life there is a happy medium, and some people are just tw@ts no matter what activity they are doing. In the UK I have definitely been stuck behind road cyclists litterally for miles a few times, like the time one wouldn't let the articulated lorry past them for about 7 or 8 miles on a twisty road heading towards the city of Bath and I was driving my car a few vehicles back, or one time behind a group of about 20 riders ambliling along in Surrey sometimes 2 abreast stretched out over 75m - 100m or so, so again there was no way anyone could safely get past. There are loads of other times too, and even as the most cycling friendly driver out there, it does get to the point where after 15 or 20 mins crawling along at 10 - 15mph you just wish they would have a bit of common courtesy to other humans. On the flip side there are also utter dick drivers out there, and also seen the fair share of cock womble mountain bikers. In summary, people can be bell ends, and if someone is reading this thinking they are better than everyone else and everyone should bow to you, then maybe, just maybe you are the bell end.
@jase111171: A) I don't think it is that common across the UK. There are loads of cyclists in the Dales of a summet weekend because it's beautiful there and I'm sure sometimes they slow you down in your car a bit. But if they had to move over for every car that came up behind them they wouldn't have a very enjoyable ride would they? B) In my experience of rural UK roads you are far more likely to be held up by agricultural machinery, especially at particular times of year. No one seems to mind that or assume that a tractor or combine should immediately get out of their way. C) Horses also hold up traffic. So do sightseers (lots of them in Dales). So do livestock moves. And pedestrians. Roadworks too. The roads are for everyone, not just for the car driver who wants to go everywhere at 60mph. The latter is me most of the time but if I come across someone going more slowly, especially a vulnerable road user, I will give them the respect they deserve and would expect everyone else to do the same.
@bigtim: I concur. I will very often wave drivers past when I'm riding on the road, especially if they seem to want to pass but aren't sure if it's safe. But equally I don't want to be in a situation where people expect me to instantly vanish so they can blast on through unhindered on their drive to the bakery. A happy medium where everyone considers everyone else is the dream.
Maybe Moss could give us all a few lessons on how to do it right, eh?
@jase111171: well, if 30+ riders move aside and go single file, I think you'll find the motorists have way more trouble passing them, unless the cars are trying to pass while staying in their lane. Which on rural UK roads is pretty unlikely and/or dangerous. A group of 2-4 it's probably courtesy to single file though, and I find they generally do.
I've never seen a 30 rider pack in the UK, except during events, and I'm regularly down in Surrey, the lycra capital of the south.
@DylanH93: I do think that cyclists should be good citizens and courteous whenever possible. That's how I try to ride. I just think that motorists should own much more responsibility since they pose greater danger and consume vastly more resources. So I'm not really interested in hearing people whine about cyclists until I hear them whine about drivers at 20x the rate.
"which then causes the cars to get frustrated and take unecessary chances to overtake"
This is the exact same level of logic as a domestic abuser who says "look what you made me do!" to his wife after he beats her.
Also, *cars* don't get frustrated. People driving them do, but the drivers are responsible for their own actions. If they can't drive safely in spite of their frustration, they shouldn't be driving at all.
You know what I do when I get stuck behind an idiot who's tying up traffic when I'm driving my car? I wait until I can get past them safely and legally. I'm not driving a goddamn ambulance; it doesn't matter if my journey takes longer than I planned. The urge to drive as quickly as you can get away with is a sick, dangerous form of entitlement that must be eliminated.
@barp: wouldn't really compare it to domestic abuse.But like I said it doesn't bother me personally as I sometimes ride a road bike myself,it's just an observation.Its obviously an heated debate wherever you stand on the topic.We,I'm sure we can all agree, just want everyone to be safe and enjoy cycling whichever form we personally prefer.
@nattyd: i think, and call me crazy, but the way to not get killed is to be conscious of one’s surroundings. If I drive a smart car, I need to be very cautious driving around a semi truck. I am harder for him see, and he will crush me like a pop can. Does this presuppose that semi trucks have more right to use the road than an economy car? No, neither does the bike/car conflict. Roads are for safe transportation. Part of safe transportation is allowing room for other road users. This isn’t not a (no pun intended) one way street. The courtesy and consideration should be given from cars to bikes, and from bikes to cars.
I'll say it again...
Pinkbike is in the same Karen ideology pushers clan. Just like them, never looks in the mirror.
And slowly is poisoning, till yesterday, beautiful politics free bubble.
Won’t touch the stuff though because of the shit it contains, but if they made one without half a bag of sugar in and a kg of caffeine I’d be all over it
@rudymedea: same here. Barely ever drink them due to what's in them but man they taste good haha. Almost like how gas can smell good. You know it's bad but something about it is just so nice.
Didn't see a safe spot to pull over in the video, so not really. I wouldn't be getting in a hedge to save even the politest queue of traffic a few minutes journey time.
@Caza1232: Exactly!! What are you supposed to do? Disappear into the ether? If a driver has chosen to drive on a rural/country road, they have to expect cyclists, walkers, horse riders, farm machinery, etc Sometimes you just can't move over, as there's nowhere to move to.
Why did that Red Bull kayaker need a life jacket let alone paddles? Not like he's gonna drown or need to push thru currents and waves going downhill all the way. Total gimmick by Red Bull.
At their worst, people are a lot of unrealized or misdirected potential and there's always hope for improvement. Not to mention how we've all been the terrible person ourselves sometimes. We should be slow with the cement and river treatment.
Wow a lot of wasted time, because one cyclist didn't pull over for a second to let a car go by. Sure the law says he doesn't have to but its common sense and would have avoided the rest of this utterly ridiculous situation. Prior to COVID i commuted to work every day by bike, still ride my bike regularly on trials and road and i will always pull over when safe to let cars pass. Just makes no sense to make a big deal about something that takes a second to do and is a courtesy.
It is also your right to establish your position within the road. It isn't always safe to get off to the side, especially on a tight road. Drivers will push you off to the side if they think they can squeeze by.
@HB208: 100%. If I move over and I just have inches between a dirt shoulder and their mirror, you better believe I'm staying out in the lane until I can let them by
@HB208: So the safe thing for the cyclist to do would be to let the car pass when safe to do so. Being within your rights and common sense are not always the same thing. My personal preference is to avoid conflict with cars and Irate drivers in all possible situations . M and my bike will lose every time when it comes to a car.
@HB208: that what I just said. I never said anything about leaving the road or a patch of the road. Just let the car go by when its safe to do so. Meaning maintain being on the road but provide some space to pass. Its not friggn hard or complicated.
@bocomtb: apparently the cyclist has enough time as well to pull over and make scene but cant spare a second to provide enough space for the car to go by. Absolutely ridiculous situation caused by a couple of self absorbed knuckleheads.
@fjallman82: it's tough to tell how long she was behind him without the video showing he entire experience. The video shows a short time on the very narrow road and then it widens and she could pass. Hard to say without knowing how long/ far they were stuck begind the guy and knowing exactly how narrow the road was
@ATXZJ: not sure why this got a down vote. I said it was tough to tell how long she was behind him. It could have been 10k (though unlikely). The video is from the cyclist and edited to look like he was only in front of her on that skinny road for a second. Hard to make a rational decision about the situation when all we can see is a video edited by one of the people in the situation. For all we know he could have been flipping her off and riding zig zags.. I'm not siding with the driver here but without all of the info how could anyone choose a side?
@fjallman82: she was eventually for sure, but the video only shows the narrow road for a few seconds before it opens up. I'm not defending the driver but without knowing how long she was behind him how can we know? Its the cyclist's video, not a video from a neutral source
@TheBlueBear: Doesn't really matter how long she was behind him in my mind. Only way this is not an over reaction is if it was a half hour or more. To be clear, I am not saying the cyclist is right, just saying that the driver was not.
@TheBlueBear: woman is a twat for behaving the way she did. Highway code in the UK says you should pull in if you are causing other traffic to be held up.
@ptrcarson: I agree with you that the cyclist wasn't right and they the driver was wrong for escalating it to that level. It's also hard to know what happened before the clip we saw
As an avid road cyclist (and one with a rearview mirror that moves over for every car), a huge problem is car drivers that have poor spatial perception of their vehicles. Many drivers won't pass even when there's plenty of room. So you'll get one old crone who won't pass the bike rider, then six good drivers behind her getting pissed at the rider, but her car is blocking them from passing.
@mtb-scotland: I agree with you. In montana if 5 cars or more are behind you and you don't pull off it is considered a crime. Still a douche move to call the cops on him and escalate the altercation. Without seeing the entire experience who knows how long their interaction/ micro traffic jam went on for
@TheBlueBear: It's 8 cars in CA,but nobody still knows or complies with that law. Around here it's usually a self-absorbed millennial Prius driver ordering food from some truck near their hive. I hate them all.
Americans.......
you accidentally just exposed yourself as a racist and sexist, nice.
Try as you might, you just exposed your bigotry and ignorance. sucks to suck.......bigot
So you continually attack my identity and you try to invalidate what or who I identify as, as an individual, and yet I'm the scum.....
And you assume my ethnicity without even knowing what race I identify as. If you are offended by people identifying as something you don't agree with, then by definition you are being bigoted and intolerant. time to check your privilege.
You keep wading deeper into ignorant bigot waters, keep going.
so you just exposed yourself as a racist. Your igonorance thinking that by identfing as another race you are merely showing your affection. You're emulating something that is not yours to emulate
SMHYFI
In my experience when it comes to aggression against cyclists, nothing beats 60+yr old males, followed shortly by +40yr old males working in construction. plumbers, carpenters, electricians. Women tend to resort to mental violence - she called a cop hoping they will make the cyclist feel miserable, by giving him a ticket, talking down to him. Delusional of course. Males prefer direct physical violence and they are quick to it too. They hit you with a bumper so you end up in a ditch. You choose which works better for you
I always ride far to the side on narrow roads when I hear the car coming, I call it basic human dignity... small move costs nothing and makes me a good amabassador for all cyclists. I can even wave and shout sorry/thank you! while smiling really wide. Just like I do when crossing the street when a car stops and let's me pass. Sticking to your guns and trying to make a statement will only make an angered driver even more angry at general cycling population and one day some miserable bastard will snap and hit an innocent cyclist. That's the way I see it.
This account has been suspended.
(28 hours remaining)
Reason:Trolling, comment spam. Lay off on the conspiracy theories and posting unrelated comments in dozens of articles.
Just straight narrow minded bigotry.
You're digging yourself deeper the more you try to rationalize this.
To your other point, there has been scientific proof that the brain chemistry of a person born Trans differs from that of their Cis born peers. Whereas there are no differences between races other than melitonin content.
Can you show me any research done on people who identify as trans racial, or are you just citing the lack of evidence as your evidence to the contrary? You really defeat your own argument the more you try to support it. Just accept it, you are a bigot, but even if you weren't, you can't think that people can change gender and identify as someone with completely genetic makeup, and NOT think people can do the same for race. You're ignorantly consistent, but rationally inconsistent. Fix it. Be less ignorant. Grow into a more mature person.
As I stated before you can claim whatever identity you want but expext backlash from said racial/cultural groups when you ignore the struggles they deal with everyday that you will never have to deal with. You may deal with struggles from society as a Trans but they are different struggles than that of different cultures/races. If you can't live it you can't fully identify with it and skin color is one thing that can't be changed. One can physically change their sexual identity though.
No I will not apologize to you for your own racial insensitivity.
You have yet to offer any scientific data on whether or not there is different brain chemistry for people that identify as different races. Nobody is arguing their is a difference in trans people, you're just using that bit of evidence to try and cover your lack of evidence, so you can continue pushing this opinion based agenda.
Hey if you want to feel that you're the sole arbitrator on race and you feel like you have the prerogative to negate peoples agency online, you do you, but don't kid yourself by trying to act progressive or tolerant because you're just drawing your own bigoted line in the sand that you don't want people to cross because "muh racial identity/superiority must be protected"
And also if your trans friends are laughing at people because of what they choose to identify as, I'd say you have some pretty immature and sophomoric trans friend who lack any sort of awareness.
toddle-oo bigot.
This is the real reason we need more women mtbers, they need that good vibes outlet as bad as men do. I've noticed an inverse relationship to the amount someone rides their bike vs their "uptight" level.
Seriously, don't f with cars anymore. Be frustrated, let the injustice or class warfare give you a boost, and channel it into riding. Not going to win against a car, even if you are right.
(which is the other modern day problem, everyone has to insist they are right, and post their grievances someplace)
Spend way more time on dirt, gravel or bike path now.
I will say, the woman in the car must be an absolute joy to be around. She is at fault, no doubt and went ahead and wasted peoples time, money and resources, but the art of de-escalation would have have also saved the time, money and resources that were spent.
Jeez, we can all just be quite the bunch of ar$3holes sometimes.
Be good to one another
As a law student Im more than happy to educate them about traffic rules tought in an unmisunderstanding way ;-)
I’m willing to bet, a “Pip pip, cheerio” as she drove past the first time would have made for a much shorter video, and I would have loved to hear it.
I know stereotypes of that sort can get tiresome, but the British accent throughout made for a much more enjoyable video.
Be Good to One Another!
“You should get a bicycle, then you will fine able to fit past me”
Works best if they are visibly unfit, watch the realisation that you just ‘fat shamed’ them slowly hit home
Where I live, the answer to cyclist/car conflict seems to always be: cars get more, cyclists get less. In the pandemic, joyriding by drivers on mountain roads seems to have become a top hobby. Roads that cyclists used for years, with no traffic (since they don't go anywhere) are now full of people driving double the speed limit and making unsafe passes. A few cyclists have been killed or maimed already. Guess what the public safety response is? Speeding enforcement? Nah. Signage about passing on blind curves? Nah. Instead, crackdowns on cyclists for minor stop sign violations, and the building of "cyclist pull-offs", so that riders have to get out of the way to let cars speed. I'm done with accommodating car culture.
This video isn't giving us a ton of information, but there is no indication that the woman was driving over the speed limit. This doesn't appear to be a particularly busy road, either. There are like 4 other cars in the 7 minutes of filming.
Again, I support cyclists using the roads, I support them using the full lane when they feel a car passing them would be dangerous. I also support cyclists on public roads having an appreciation for what can be a significantly slower speed that they ride compared with speed limits, and treating drivers with the same respect and humanity they wish to receive.
Now I stated I was a mountain biker, because that's my passion, but I do own a road bike and spend plenty of time riding it on public roads. Again, similar to my behavior on multi-use mtb trails, I have stopped and pulled over on the road so that cars could get by me when I wasn't comfortable going around a bend in the road with a vehicle approaching me from behind. I stopped. I pulled over. My life means more to me than the workout I'm trying to get.
I am sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble with your local mountain roads. It seems like a failure of law enforcement, maybe you can get a petition to a local representative. It's clearly not okay that people are being hurt where you live.
In this video, however, all I saw was an extremely arrogant cyclist baiting an extremely ignorant woman and so again, I'm not a fan of either one's behavior. This video is literally titled with her license plate number. Why? The only explanation I have is that he hopes people will recognize her plate and harass her. I dislike that he would make her vehicle information public and I dislike how he takes it upon himself to criticize her parenting and accuse her of neglect.
She is wrong, very wrong, but his handling of the entire situation, in my opinion, was deliberately provocative and so no, I am not a fan of his behavior.
In my opinion both parties should do their best to communicate, cyclist with his body language at least showing he is trying to get out of the way, waving “please pass”, driver should keep his distance in worst case occasionally get to closer to signal their presence. After driver passes both should do a sign of courtesy, wave, blink as a mean of encouraging good cooperation.
Putting yourself in a position of a honey badger walking in between a pack of lions is in my personal opinion a rather failed strategy. We should also stop focusing on worst case scenarios. Whichever group of people you would analyze, cyclists, drivers, environmentalists, hunters, stoners - you will find a*sholes. By average We humans are still are too hasty to judge groups as a hole by behaviour of outliers. Either aholes or extra decent people.
Please explain into me........
He couldn't move over as there was nowhere to move over to, you can plainly see this in the video. It wasn't until the motorist had enough space to get beside him that she did, an began berate him. All the dude did was argue this point.... the motorist broke MANY UK driving laws in her tirade an then proceeded to make a fully unnecessary 999 call an waste the time of emergency services again something that she could've been prosecuted for here in the UK. All the while the dude pulled over an continued to film for his own legal an safety purposes. Again being non threatening an polite while the womans kids where obviously upset.....
She was whole in the wrong.
I want to be more like Moss, and what a rad name!
You need to watch the Moss video after the British cyclist non-sense, makes your day way better.
I’m Moss!
That karen is driving in the wrong lane,she drives parallel to the cyclist for long time (you must do it as quick as possible,overtaking a car or whatever could not take a minute cos you think it is fun to chat like that). With this video that Karen would be in the Guardia Civil station in no time with a good excuse to explain.
We have new rules to overtake cyclist in Spain,you must brake to the cyclist speed,then overtake at 10-20 km/h faster than the actual cyclist speed. That means no one can overtake you at high speed in a narrow road. It is a very safe way to do it,safer that 80 km/h differential speed overtake.
Police and G.Civil have 0 tolerance with this new rule if you mess up.
Also, obviously Moss rocks!
Gawton 1:04 would be good
DH bikes tests done by actual downhillers?
Euro-Pikey?
Dirt 100? Maybe the Slack PB 100
You put it as "but road bikers have no issues with having a que (sic) of traffic behind then for mile after mile"
Pretty obviously this is already poisoning the well with hyperbolic BS (nobody is being held up for "mile after mile". But it's also just a biased misstatement of the rules of the road. It presupposes that roads are for cars, that cars have first entitlement to them, and that cyclists on roads are interlopers and in the way.
But there's no legal or moral obligation for cyclists to "get off the road". Bikes have been on roads for longer than cars, they're a better way to get around many places in terms of cost, danger, environmental impact and even time, despite the fact that our societies heavily subsidize cars, fuel, insurance, and car infrastructure, when you consider all of the negative externalities.
An opposite framing would be "drivers have no problem endangering the lives of strangers to save 2 seconds in a car"
Besides moral and legal framing, the idea that bikes should get out of the way of cars is impractical and unsustainable both in the short and long term. I see the framing here as literally shortsighted. Driver sees cyclist, wonders why cyclist can't specifically accommodate him. But by extension, why you and not everyone else? So you're basically saying that the responsibility of getting out of the way should be constantly and permanently shifted to cyclists. In the short term, road riding would basically be impossible if every time you had a car behind you, you had to pull off the road. In the long term, you basically cede the road entirely to cars, as now the expectation is that it's the responsibility of cyclists to never impede cars.
B) In my experience of rural UK roads you are far more likely to be held up by agricultural machinery, especially at particular times of year. No one seems to mind that or assume that a tractor or combine should immediately get out of their way.
C) Horses also hold up traffic. So do sightseers (lots of them in Dales). So do livestock moves. And pedestrians. Roadworks too. The roads are for everyone, not just for the car driver who wants to go everywhere at 60mph. The latter is me most of the time but if I come across someone going more slowly, especially a vulnerable road user, I will give them the respect they deserve and would expect everyone else to do the same.
Maybe Moss could give us all a few lessons on how to do it right, eh?
I've never seen a 30 rider pack in the UK, except during events, and I'm regularly down in Surrey, the lycra capital of the south.
This is the exact same level of logic as a domestic abuser who says "look what you made me do!" to his wife after he beats her.
Also, *cars* don't get frustrated. People driving them do, but the drivers are responsible for their own actions. If they can't drive safely in spite of their frustration, they shouldn't be driving at all.
You know what I do when I get stuck behind an idiot who's tying up traffic when I'm driving my car? I wait until I can get past them safely and legally. I'm not driving a goddamn ambulance; it doesn't matter if my journey takes longer than I planned. The urge to drive as quickly as you can get away with is a sick, dangerous form of entitlement that must be eliminated.
Won’t touch the stuff though because of the shit it contains, but if they made one without half a bag of sugar in and a kg of caffeine I’d be all over it
So if its not safe, you don’t pull in.