Not every ride warrants wearing a full-face helmet. Frequently, I end up riding gnarlier trails than I initially set out for. I’ll often toss two helmet options in the truck because ride plans can quickly escalate from the parking lot. Chill rides can turn into wild ones depending on who tags along. Friends can egg you on to “show them how it’s done” when nearby features can lure you in.
If you like challenging yourself, chances are you’ve taken a biff that either left you with scratches on the jaw piece of your full-face, or spitting blood. We’re always thankful when we do wear the extra coverage and disgruntled at best when we don’t. That begs the question, why don’t we wear full-face helmets all of the time?
Henry Quinney wrote an op-ed last year where he expressed his split devotion to either a half-shell or downhill race worthy full-face. “Why compromise?” was his baseline, suggesting that if your ride warrants wearing a full-face, it should have the most protection possible. That holds some weight, but I’d like to counter that. Yes, I agree with his statement that high-speed downhill racing warrants the most protection possible, but most of the terrain that we ride in the Sea to Sky is slow and steep, in comparison to bike park speeds. Plus, not all puckering steep trails are easy to access. You’ll need to drag your bike and bucket to the top under human power.
Moto track and enduro riders never venture on without them. Motorcycle trials riders opt for an open face because they are going uphill, against gravity. We enjoy the opposite. We point our bikes downhill, face-first and grinning our teeth the faster we go. Mountain bikers ride down hills fighting gravity. You’re GOING to fall forwards at some point. Any bit of jaw protection is better than none.
By increasing the security of the fit with the addition of the jaw piece, the manufacturers can add more volume to the sphere meaning more protection. Take a look at the lightweight full-face helmets out there, like the
Fox Proframe RS, which have a multi-layered sandwich of spheres that rotate within one another upon impact. You’ll be hard-pressed to find a half-shell helmet that contains an equal level of technology.
Last spring I took one of the quickest and wildest crashes I’ve ever had - face first. No, I wasn’t wearing one of these helmets I’m rambling on about.
I set out to sneak in a lap before dark, with the doggo in tow, on a trail that I’ve ridden a thousand times. A squall came through that day on the North Shore and knocked a few twigs loose. One of those, void of bark - the slipperiest kind - was sitting across the lip of a bike-length gap. The run in was slow and steep on a soft, unmarked trail. I didn’t think much of the polished branch and it all went wrong in the blink of an eye.
Before I had a chance to lift the front wheel, it slid off the narrow lip and lodged in the backside of the landing. My hands didn’t even have time to come off of grips before my face catapulted into the dirt, the kind of OTB where your feet stayed clipped in. I mean full Scorpion King-style, worthy of making the Friday Fails - the seat even hit me in the back. Thankfully, it was soft and mossy where I face-planted, although I thought my nose was broken. I got really, really lucky.
As I sat there spitting out dirt and picking up the pieces of my glasses I’d broken with my nose, my four-legged friend looking at me, wondering why I decided to roll around in the dirt mid-chase. This wasn’t a race, or a huge send, or even a gnarly trail. A crash like this wasn’t supposed to happen. But accidents aren’t planned.
We wear knee pads (also - a “sometimes” accessory) and helmets to lessen these blows, but why don’t we wear more than a styrofoam hat? I’ve heard it all, “No full-face helmet I’ve tried breathes well,” “It’s too hot,” “I’m claustrophobic,” “You can’t wear a full-face without goggles. That’s bad style,” “I’m only riding that trail.” What’s your excuse? What if you showed up to a moto track looking like Ronnie Mac, sans chin-bar? You’d be kicked and laughed off the track pretty darn quick.
If you ask me, all of those reasons are bologna. Then again, I can be just as guilty as everyone else from time to time. So, what’s the solution? Make them lighter. Yup, that’s a start. Add in some additional ventilation and magnetic strap closure. Now we’re getting somewhere. Fast, light, just the way we all want our mountain bikes to ride.
Detachable chin-bars weren’t a bad thought. But what do you do with the second half of the helmet when it’s not needed, drape it around your bars or wear it as a scarf? There’s still a part of me that doesn’t fully trust that the chin-bar will stay on either, since I’ve seen one or two detach prematurely in crashes.
Goggles and a half lid give a false sense of security. They do offer that breathability on the way up, but possibly at the cost of your teeth on descents. The opposite, and equally kooky opinion of rocking glasses and a full-face again improve ventilation, yet don’t totally lock out mud splats. Plus, they give you an awful headache.
Ok, let’s add the goggles back in, but cut holes in the top of the goggle frames. That’ll reduce the greenhouse effect somewhat, although it’ll bring in the occasional clump of mud or mosquito.
There must be some way to have all three desirable traits; full-face protection, ventilation, and decent eyewear packaged into one elegant solution. One creative enduro motocross rider invented this system that lifted the google frame away from the rider’s face, but that didn’t catch on with the enduro MTB crowd.
What if… the goggles didn’t have a strap at all? Integrating a pivoting lens, something like a street motorcycle helmet, could be one way to achieve that. Too kooky? Too costly to manufacture? With all of the integrated components on bikes these days, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some variation of that in the future.
Does the perfect solution exist? Sure - don’t crash. Never challenge yourself, never take any risks, and never gain that experience of overcoming a trail feature. To each their own though. Mountain biking is inherently dangerous, so if you’re already playing that game, why not double down and buckle up with full-face coverage?
503 Comments
Only joking shredly
Step one: complain about American healthcare system.
Step 2: under no circumstances should you say that tax payer funded healthcare has limitations
Step 3: do not acknowledge any benefits of the US system even if you still think the cons outweigh the pros. Much shorter waiting times and lower personal taxes have absolutely zero relevance. Only look at the negatives. Waiting 1-2 years for minor surgery is much more acceptable than paying lots of money through insurance for it...
also, the vast vast majority of people in the US have insurance. I know you have been lead to believe otherwise. even a low level plan, you would only be out like $10k on average for $500k in face rebuilding costs.
You can also get private insurance here, which can be faster and you get some other benefits like your own room in the hospital, and it’s cheaper if you don’t need it, but after dealing with insurance companies in the US that are not incentivized to pay your bills, I wouldn’t even consider it.
Here you wouldn’t even be out 10k. In patient surgery cost me 100€ for four nights in the hospital, but mostly it’s free, plus you don’t need to take vacation for the work days you missed. You are brainwashed.
it's 2023 and I could not be happier with the health care I now get in the US.
All free but payed through my tax contributions.
What would that have cost me in the US ?
My FF story from I think 12 years ago was as follows - I took part in an eduro race and of course did not wear FF. On the second stage I face planted straight onto a rock, completely smashed my nose (so it was like flat/flat) and was like 1cm from loosing a god damn eye! Of course it was handled 100% by public health system, but it was quite "funny", I remember surgeon saying something like - "well, I need to cut out this little piece of your nose, It will not be pretty, but you know, a plastic surgeon will have easier job afterwards than I have now". All in all I have a nice straight nose, but you can spot a few scars
Wear FF kids, plastic surgeries may not be free in your healthcare system
On the other hand if you’re not insurances it would be absolutely outrageous, would put someone in finically debt for years if not life. But as of recently health care debt in US is not allowed to be reported on credit reports.
Overall healthcare in US is about $5,000 / yr than UK for a payer. But there’s cases like me where it’s probably less since I don’t have to pay a tax every paycheck and have free health insurance.
Google- “health insurance CEO bonuses in the US” it’s criminal.
anyway, if I did that here in the States, I would have similar speed, better doctors, and higher quality follow up care. if you don't beleive me, have a google. my out of pocket would be under $100. which is a bargain to not beg at the teet of the state for my well being....
Multiple years is fine as most people don’t need that care very often !
As for a fullface? Since the crash I've worn it for 8 total days. Enduro2 in Les Arcs and Megavalanche in 2021. Everything else is with a half-shell. And I just made a slight shitstorm asking when the national enduro series will finally give up the mandatory fullface helmet rule.
When was your crash? I regianed full sense in the soft tissues fairly quickly, but the affected quadrant of teeth (same side, upper jaw) are fairly numb, especially the first 4 teeth, the molars are fine.
I know its really sad and its my issues (!) BUT wearing a full face sometimes is asking for a world of shit aimed at you!
Its either
1 - who is this clown, does he think he's Greg Minnaar ? Hes riding the same shit we're riding in our regular helmets
Or...
2- whose this loser what the hell are you pedalling around in a full face for? Next step is elbow pads over your hoody!
Unless its legit DH territory, it's always safer to put the open face on.
And I feel very sad about that.
And that's my fault.
If one of your friends teases you for wearing a FF, get better friends.
If I've gotta pedal uphill for more than a couple hundred vert, the half shell is gonna have to do.
If it’s self inflicted pressure of what others *might* be thinking about you then you need to chill.
I’ve had looks for sure, but I don’t give a feck, I came to ride not be cool at school.
Get out and ride hard… for yourself
Build that muscle memory. Learn how to gtfo when things go sideways. It won’t save you in every crash, but neither will a $900 wünder helmet.
Also stretch before you ride. Who cares if you look like a dork in the parking lot. Limber up. Pulled ligaments are no joke.
But there’s no way to sell practice and stretching so you won’t see articles on it…
Learning to fall is invaluable and will help as much as a spine protector or knee pads or full face. Or rabbits foot.
For local ‘exercise’ loops I go open face, as soon as I go anywhere proper I’m full face (I have to go to work on Monday vibe).
If there’s a lot of fire track or easy single track to begin with I ride with my lid on my back/pack.
Actually that‘s a point - people think you are an „extreme DH Rider“ and betone eben more unser and opposed to mtb in my area.
I was always putting my ski goggles on my forehead until those big window goggles arrived! Woww!!! I only wear those now and it doesn't bother me while snowboarding or fatbiking. I don't think somebody is doing goggles like this for motocross/mtn biking, and would probably not fit with a fullface but that would change everything!
And that’s intentional. In order to look “cool”, moto and DH gear is carefully styled to look aggressive and menacing.
Problem is; I've never really properly understood the balance between protecting my beautiful face and the increased risk of rotational forces on the neck and brain. I'd love to read something that quantifies or academically clears the matter up.
I was considering wearing my Fox Rampage for downhill skiing for many reasons (safety, more wind protection, and its warmer than a half shell). However, after some research I learned that full face helmets are generally a bad idea for skiing because in a crash they dig into the snow and can snap your neck. Now I'm curious about whether this is the same for MTB.
Also interested about whether a neck brace can prevent this.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7264075
The analogy to mountain biking isn't perfect, but the worry about helmets and neck injuries has long been passed around the motorcycle world as well and the best data we have suggests that it is misguided..
I had one really bad crash where I faceplanted otb, scorpion style. Broken vertebrae t4-t6 and mild concussion, but my facial wounds were just bruises and scrapes that cleared up within a week.
It appears that the chin bar absorbed the initial hit and then detached cleanly at the attachment points. I didn't suffer any type of whiplash, sprain, or any other type of rotational injury, which given the way I fell and ragdolled seems unlikely if the bar remained attached. So maybe there is something like that at work and maybe that style of helmet, detachable full face rated for "Enduro and light downhill" could be the best option for trail riders looking for the best balance of protection and weight. I never even took off the chin bar I always liked it better on
I think this article gives a short shift to the detachable chin bar helmets. I have one and and I usually climb up with it off, and then put it on for the descent. I'm lucky that I live in a mountainous area where most rides consist of a steady uptrack, and then a descent with minimal ups. It's definitely a lot cooler with the chin bar off, specially in the summer. I keep the chin bar in my backpack, joined with my other protective gear for the climb up in hot weather.
Which is an entirely different environment. It would be scientifically unsound to simply transfer those results to MTB.
I might not recommend that style of helmet for the more extreme downhill rides but there's certainly good applications for it
The main benefit of a half shell is just that it's less stuff on your head. It feels nice not having stuff against your cheeks. I would love to wear one, but I've had too many close calls that would have resulted in serious/permanent face injuries.
New full face lids are very well ventilated.
You realise Canada gets got too, right? Interior BC literally has a desert.
Yes, google it.
Good point.
You never know when this stuff is going to happen, and that one time you go without a full face could be the time you wish you hadn’t. It’s not that much hotter — wear the full face.
Wait, we're still talking helmets right?
Hooray for being environmentally friendly, full on weight weenie and ladies man all in one ;-)
You have to fiddle with your spacers a bit. It can go underneath or above the stem. Below, it can rub on the tire sometimes depending on how you set it up
climb this trail and tell me we dont have tech climbs
www.trailforks.com/trails/cheney-ranch-lower
I meant not a single climb was tech and there is literally no intermittent down hill on any of those climbs. Sorry I forgot there are people in LA that actually like climbing or aren’t on e bikes haha
It is now available in allow and bezel led edges. Very useful, works really well and excellent customer feedback.
They prevent expensive dental work, and concussions as well. A friend had a concussion from falling backwards during a manual and hitting his tail bone. Clenching his teeth, the shock traveled to his brain. You can get custom ones at your dentist, or just go to Walmart and get the Wilson brand ones for $1 that you boil. The custom ones made by glidewell labs have different levels of protection and actually mention they are rated for MTB. I wear mine MTB, snowboarding and even surfing when the waves have some size.
I feel like if i had been wearing my full face, the extra coverage of the helmet would have helped to prevent at least some of the compressive load that my neck took when I crashed.
That said, I'll also be adding a neck brace and jacket for my park days.
I wonder at what point if we get our kids to wear one as they grow older it is just the thing that we do, vs getting the awkward looks now for ripping on a local trail where 99% of people wear a half shell only
The trails I‘m riding are illegal (as there are almost no legal trails around) and shared. So, acceptance of bikers is low combined with a big bunch of prejudice.
Fullfaces, where the hickers can’t even see your eyes or your smile, push the notion of „the reckless racing bikers“ … and that doesn’t help at all in changing the situation
I'd consider something like the Proframe RS in the pictures for part of the year, but it would have to be sunglass compatible. Goggles would just be stupid here.
Don’t care what people think….
I keep wearing it, but this has happened more than once.
Luckily I haven't had to use that in a while, my friends are mostly adults.
And let me help help you with your excuses:
It’s too hot. The weather doesn’t give a f*ck about you.
I don’t ride terrain that justifies it. If you go over 15 mph it justifies it. Speed doesn’t care about you.
It’s uncomfortable. So is hitting a rock or tree or stump with your face.
But do what ever you want. I really don’t care.
At the same time I ride as hard as I can on great trails.
I always wear a full face and armour, because the opposite idea, that you might buy into some ridiculous meme that hurting yourself more than necessary if you make a small mistake is cool and desirable is actually stupid as f*ck.
It’s great to see a lot of people admitting they don’t wear protection because of peer pressure and other reductive ideas about self harm and being ‘hard’ because; admitting is the first step, and, let’s face it rationally; Any judgement of behaviour that encourages unnecessary harm as a reward for exploration doesn’t sound great to me. You literally have one brain and face in this life. One spinal cord. People make amazing devices to protect them. Choosing to ignore a chance not to be injured and limit damage to both yourself and people who love you is frankly backward.
I’ll be picking up the new pro frame and making it my regular go to lid for most rides.
They’re are some who wear one all the time, but in warmer areas it’s not a good combo with asthma.
It sounds like you live in a “gnarly place like Whistler or the North Shore.” You should wear a full face. Risk in life is unavoidable at a certain point: the most dangerous thing any of us can ever do is something we do every day, drive a car or be a passenger in a car. Let me know when you start driving with your full face on…
false equivalency. In any case an airbag actuation would rip your head off if you’re wearing a ff.
Needless to say I wear a full-face 100% of the time now, and with the surge in lightweight full-face helmets (mine personally is a Smith Mainline) there really is no excuse for the extra protecting they give.
I hate it when people say "I am on my xc/enduro/shorter travel bike" and riding the same stuff they ride on their bigger bike. Aren't you taking more risk by riding a less capable bike, thus a full face may make more sense in some situations?
First enduro I raced at Plattekill, an experienced DH racer was there and with a half shell, someone asked why not a full face and they said I am not on my DH bike. We were literally racing one of the same trails that a DH race was on a few weeks prior, this person had less gear and less bike.
So it’s goggles always with a full face for me now.
Also re knee (and elbow ) pads, there’s really no reason not to wear them these days.
I rather like my new teeth, and I intend to keep them that way. Learnt my lesson with that as a kid.
Basing what helmet you wear on the perceived terrain being somehow ‘safer’ is a bit odd to me…I know plenty of people who have slipped in the car park or when hopping kerbs in the street, or on a mild local or green trail and been injured in the face, and on the flip side I know plenty of people who have stacked on fast double blacks at bike parks and walked away without a scratch. They are accidents, and by definition, you don’t know where or when they are going to occur.
All I can do is protect myself to ny own minimum acceptable level, and that for me is a full face.
Each to their own
Result? Destroyed my full on DH full face helmet. Compression Fracture in my back. So assuming slow and steep is not requiring a dh helmet is wrong. If it's very steep the risk of crashing is higher and some crashes on the steep can be nasty.
After an hour or so I tend to have forgotten about it though.
Riding with my six year old son, I often don't wear one (though he does) because the terrain is easy and a halfshell makes it easy to talk to you.
I live in Southern NV so summer is hot. In the past, I wouldn't wear my Giro Switchblade when it was REALLY hot out, but I just picked up a TLD Stage with the intention of basically always wearing a FF when riding. The terrain I ride is NASTY in terms of things to fall on and while I rarely fall, the closes I usually come is via front wheel washouts on sandy parts of easy trails, so just wearing it when I am on the tougher, more exposed trails doesn't make sense.
I occasionally put on goggles, but mostly if I'm grinding up an access road to descend and wearing my DH helmet and (and that's mostly when I'm riding on really cold mornings), but most of the time I find the glasses do a better job of staying fog free. I think it's more the expectation of pairing them with the DH helmet than anything else.
In Marin county there are a few hostile hikers.
They act like they own all open space and I’m killing the trees by riding a bike.
I wear a full face because I want t keep my teeth, not to make some crazy old nimby happy.
A full face isn’t going to make me ride faster or try that awkward drop I’ve looked at the last couple rides. I’m 48 with a house, wife, 2 kids and a dog.
So you're saying that you wouldn't wear a full face because it wouldn't make you ride faster? I don't think that's the goal of a FF by the way.... 48 with a house, wife, 2 kids and a dog should be the reason why you would want to protect yourself.
I wear a full face 75% of the time.
A full face is probably appropriate for anyone actively trying to become a better rider and is riding aggressive.
or anything steep with chance of down trees.
if you could ride the trail with only 1 brake and would be comfortable without knee pads, your probably fine in your half shell.
Chest / back protector has been getting more run than knee pads—I’m not sure knee pads are my jam anymore.
Oh yeah of course I’m 97% ebike, climbing fire roads, as is the funnest method. Helmet hangin off bars or high on head if it’s a hotter day. Ebikes rule.
My half shell is now used for the daily commute.
There is however a minor psychological issue that I've noticed. When on the ff & goggles I feel I need to push myself to go fast. I try not to allow this feeling to take over because I ride terribly when this happens. With the half shell and sunglasses I feel like I'm just out to enjoy nature without any performance expectations. I tend to ride better when there is no pressure to perform.
This is something 100% in my head that I need to work on.
TLD Stage 704gr
IXS Trigger FF 595gr
Endura MT500 FF 640gr
MET Parachute 700gr
MET Parachute MCR 840gr
Fox Proframe 765gr
Fox Proframe RS 836gr
Smith Mainline 770 / 890gr
Leatt MTB 3.0 Enduro 760gr
Leatt MTB 4.0 Enduro 847gr
Specialized Gambit 613 / 640gr
Kali Protectives Invader 2.0 640/650gr
Bell Super Air R 650gr
100% Trajecta 860gr
POC Otocon 680gr
POC Otocon Race 750gr
7IDP Project23 ABS 860gr (large)
Alpina Roca 820gr
Lazer Kineticore 820gr
Some of those are aren't available outside of UK, or Northern America, or whereever. Some are way more ventilated than others. Some have removable chinbar. Some are hard to find at not-dentist pricing. But there are a few to choose from now.
Knee pads are sometimes? A few weeks after slicing my knee open I bought some POC VPD Air kneepads and raced 100km in them. No issues, and didn't feel like they were slowing me much. I have worn knees 99% of rides since, though often it's the Race Face Charge, the super-thin foam on which do approximately nothing other than stopping cuts.
Do you get punished if not wearing googles? Just use big wide glasses, they look cool too.
Urge did a helmet with some kind of integrated googles.
Cash did integrated lens on the helmets could be use on full helmets.
headsweats.com
I shave my head so I don't have hair to absorb sweat. These work great.
I use the Halo bands (store.haloheadband.com). They have this "gasket" which diverts the sweat to the sides of your face. Works well for me.
I hate the dentist and don't run a hot bodily thermostat. In fact, bonus is that full face will keep ears warm in the winter too.
Oh yeah. For outstretched arms the chinbar probably won't affect it.
I trust leatt's info.
Got the Proframe because the chinbar isn't super substantial, and when it cracks/ breaks it absorbs a lot of the impact. it has stretchy rubber inside which holds some of the shape of the bar after it smashes.
Kind of like having the dog bones on an rc car fall off easily so the knuckles, bearings, and wheels don't get broken by the dog one jamming them on impact.
Or crumple zones on a car
My thinking is that if the chinbar is the frangible element relative to my bone, then my bone has a better chance of surviving a run in with the chinbar.
I used to run a DOT approved helmet for BMX, and if that thing made solid contact with a bone it was going to smash, 100%.
Might not be common thinking, but I guess that's why I'm a fit and wear tester for bike gear.
I also really appreciate you writing that out so I could learn your perspective too.
The exception is a liftaccess bike park... Then: always full face.
Still, remote area enduro / trail riding may or may not call for full face but park: always. Maybe this article should just prompt more FF helmet use for many of us on more rugged conditions...not hard to do.
Descending = always full face on.
Riding with my kids across the park = half lid.
Even when riding my Spark on enduro trails I like to wear carbon soled ballerina shoes so it's knee pads at most for me
Remember kids, fashion is temporary, style is forever
I have higher avg and max speeds, the likelyhood of having a crash is much higher because of rampant drivers/cellphone-zombies and N00b ebike-riders.
In fact, I have had more incidents on my commutes than on the trails because I am probably a lot more focused & prepared when out for a proper ride.
I do wear a FF when going to parks or racing enduros, because I push my limits a lot more.
On my road bike i can reach 70km/h in descent but i don't wear any full face helmet or protection
Do you see any road bikers wear them? There are more bad crash on road bike.. than mtb..with cara involved.. do i need to ride with motorbike clothings?
Mtb i have fullface and dh protection so i have open helmet, it depends on the type of riding, after years in parks and searching for speed now i'm usually exploring and go slow so i no more need for dh protection.
I'm a motorbiker so when i ride i go full protected...but on a motorbike.
You can crush just going downstairs at home.. home is the worst environment for safety.. i'm not joking.
So I strap the chinbar to a backpack and do the climb with the half lid and convert at the top. It does become more cumbersome with goggles and a chinbar dangling off the back. I wish the companies offering the convertable lids would find a practical way to stow the chinbar while climbing? I I were riding chairlifts, It would be a no brainer.
No good reason, just don't want to.
Ironically, I am the total opposite on my motorcycle. Fully geared up in textiles on the road with a full face, leathers on the track.
Full face riding DH…
"because it's another mountain bike item on my list I need to purchase but I haven't got to it yet. It's a big list"
Daily Drive = half lid
www.instagram.com/p/CpQUK2oNNE9
1) If I did, I would just do more stupid stuff and not be as smart with lines, and probably go faster and take more risk with the rest of my body.
2) The worst crash I’ve had was going 0.5miles per hour when I fell incorrectly and triple-fractured my ankle, destroyed the biggest ligament in it, and had to have major surgery. A full face only protects your face.
If 1) happens, then 2) is even more likely than normal.
Now to answer the topic, I can't afford a proper DH Helmet and a Light FF and a open helmet. Also I grew up riding the Switchblade V1 and it was breathable but still warmer than necessary. Maybe if I was living somewhere where heat isn't an issue in summer but I don't.
It's like wearing a scarf to mountain bike in cold weather. You know what I mean? It's practical but really!?!
Basically triggered by Matt Beer's top 10 story.
Because just like helmets it’s personal choice.
Also, drinking from a bottle is no fun with most full face helmets.
Haha what?
boozed (22 hours ago)
I don't want to deal with goggles.
Haha what
His answer was about goggles. Who assumed you have to wear goggles? Lol
If you just say I think I have more chance of injury from a full face if I don't wear a neck brace as well, that is your thought/opinion on the matter. Anyway, fire back stating that you're standing your ground, because, that's just like, your opinion man.
No no my bad
Because I think the potential injury from a full face without a neck brace is far worse than the potential injury from an open face helmet.
Sorry my English grammar doesn't meet the standards of the Pinkbike comment section!
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