Radic Performance Announces New Boutique Brakeset from New Zealand

Nov 4, 2022 at 12:05
by Matt Beer  
Radic Kaha Brakes
Radic Kaha Brakes

In the world of mountain bike brakes, the larger players like Shimano and SRAM have been fairly quiet for a few years now, but on a smaller scale, boutique brands have begun to emerge. Radic Performance is one of those which was created by Taylor Grey, an engineer based in Auckland, New Zealand. His interest in building a stronger mountain bike brake, such as the Kaha model, stems from a background in designing dual clutches and gearboxes for supercars.

The Kaha uses a fully machined four-piston caliper and master cylinder from 7075-T6 aluminum that has been optimized using Finite Element Analysis (FEA). That led to a system that is said to be light and stiff enough for the rigors of downhill, enduro, and e-bikes.

Starting at the lever, which pivots on stainless steel cartridge bearings, a 9mm master cylinder piston produces a smooth actuation through an easy-to-pull mechanic ratio over the course of a short dead stroke (the distance the lever travels to engage the pads). Titanium hardware secures the brake set to the bike and steel braided Goodridge lines are called upon for their durability.

Radic Kaha Brakes
Radic Kaha Brakes

At the caliper, there are two sets of stainless steel 16 and 17mm pistons which glide through PTFE dynamic seals. Taylor has chosen to use stainless steel for the piston material due to its low thermal conductivity, keeping the heat generated in the brake pads at bay from the fluid in the caliper. Even the oil flow through the caliper has been designed to pass all of the chambers sequentially, avoiding pockets where air may get trapped. That also allows for a full flush of the system when a bleed is performed. To achieve the best possible bleed, it’s actually advised that pads are left in the caliper to achieve that short dead stroke.

Radic Kaha Brakes

One of the most interesting bullet points on the Kaha brake is that it can be configured to use either DOT 5.1 fluid or mineral oil, plus the calipers utilize the commonly found Hope V4 pads.

In total, the system weighs 320g per side, including an 80cm braided line and pads. Each set of Radic Kaha brakes is machined and hand assembled in New Zealand for the tune of $1200 NZD. Australasia orders will commence first through the Radic Performance website as of 6pm NZDT on November 9 with delivery expected by the end of 2022, with international shipments to follow in 2023.






159 Comments

  • 87 1
 It is not boutique if they are so barbaric as to list a price. True boutique you tell your people to talk to their people and you never soil yourself with details like price. Please people lets be civilized.

This screams for an article on how to make your 15k bike a 20k bike in 10 easy steps:
1. Send for custom paint job
2. Hand made tires
3. Replace your oem wheels with Custom anodized Chris King wheels with berd spokes
4. Upgrade brakes to radics
5. Buff drivetrain with garbruk chainring cassette and jockey
6. Upgrade axs shifters with custom buttons
7. Custom stem and handlebar, VR model generated fit with kinesiologist and AI assisted design.
8. Replace all fasteners with titanium versions
9. Custom saddle made with organic hormone free alpaca leather
10. Custom grips made from environmentally friendly synthetic rubber made from the tears of the bike industry CEOs
  • 40 2
 What about Graphene chain lube!?
  • 15 0
 Yup, done all that bar get the Radic’s but that’ll change on Wednesday…. Why haven’t you done this yourself? Are you a mere peasant?
  • 14 0
 @handynzl: My people should be on that on Wednesday, I crack the whip harder then Elon at Twitter so I know it will be done or heads will roll. I have instructed them to ship the radic's directly to the paint shop so they can be kashima matched to my new all kashima frame.
  • 12 0
 @aquanut: My chain gets replaced after every ride, it gets graphene before obviuosly. Helium instead of air in the tires, Bike industry CEO tears instead of oil in shock and fork. Extra Mineral Mineral Oil for the brake lines. I havent found brake pads that don't list a price so still unsure what pads to use on the new build.
  • 9 0
 @pink505: I reckon you'll need those Limited Edition brake pads from Sinter, announced back in June. The ones with the wooden display box.
  • 12 0
 You forgot:
11. Upgrade your Eewings for a set of Sturdy cranks.

And, tbf, Garbaruk is not too expensive. Their 12 sp cassette is less expensive than a SRAM one.
For chainring and jockey wheels, I'd go for Titanium from Dward Designs.

Brakes have to be Trickstuff Maxima or nothing.
  • 2 0
 @Bitelio: lol have you seen SLF Motion’s AXS cage? $1100 for 3D printed Ti pulleys and a carbon cage, and even after that they offer custom paint and cages. They look great but holy moly that’s just too much.

Sidenote, customize the rest of the XX1 AXS derailleur with Hop Carbon components. There you have it, a ≈$2300 derailleur.
  • 1 0
 @MrShreddypants: haha....I know about Hopp but didn't about the other ones.
Cheers!!
  • 3 0
 Garbaruk cassettes and chainrings are cheaper than the sram top of the line stuff.
  • 1 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: what’s the longevity of a Garbaruk Cassette in comparison? Newer to hearing about these so curious how they compare
  • 1 0
 @stormracing: I am not riding as much as I would like but its on my bike for 15 months now and not really showing any wear. Shifting was a bit rougher than the sram xo1 I had before but it got better after 2 months, now it shifts basically the same just a bit louder. It did not work well with the new Deore 11 speed derailleur but works very well with the XT 11 speed model. (its the 11-50 11 speed hg version).
  • 1 0
 @stormracing: same here. Not riding as much as I'd like but the Garbaruk is working fine with my SRAM chain.
No signs of wear in the teeth.
With regards to the anodizing resistance, I got the silver version so I cannot really say if it's good or bad.
  • 2 0
 @Bitelio: I got the silver/black but the black part looks still fine too, anodizing seems good- unlike the china 30T I bought that was made of cheese and ano was basically paint.
  • 2 0
 @stormracing: I’ve been using their cassette for two seasons of riding and racing enduro and it’s still not even close to worn out. Very well made. Gorgeous machine work. Worth the money.
  • 1 0
 You shouldn't be upset about boutique pricing or brands. I think its awesome we have the equivalent of super cars in the bike world, even if they are out of price range. Besides, makes used bike shopping and vintage shopping that much more exciting when you land a sought after part you could never afford on a vintage build. Like buying a used vintage SC bullit and scoring a set of ISO kings. its all just fun man. Also, you tossed chris king in the names, They are not boutique IMO, they are 3X the price of standard hub, but after running an ISO 135 converted to 142, converted to boost 148, then converted to XD driver, I have managed to get over 16 years of use out of a hub without replacing a bearing and with minimal servicing. That is value!!!!
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog: i am boutique! I would never buy a used part touched by the serfs. Using a 16 old hub with 135 spoke spacing with spacers must be unrideable, your wheels must be like spaghetti. Old bearings without bike industry CEOs tear lube must grind to a halt. I am glad the serfs can use my discarded premium parts and technology after I get bored of them and move to the latest thing. 26 wouldn't be dead without me, I must get back to work Elon has been calling about the cash I promised.
  • 38 1
 It uses Bleeding Edge? Sweet!
  • 6 0
 Also looks like hope fittings. Smart.
  • 19 23
flag seraph (Nov 4, 2022 at 14:14) (Below Threshold)
 Uses Bleeding Edge: smart
Uses Hope V4 pads: dumb
  • 23 11
 Nah…please use shimano saint standards
  • 2 6
flag Apfelsauce (Nov 4, 2022 at 14:27) (Below Threshold)
 @sherbet: Reliable, but are they still 6mm hoses? So you're zip-tying it to the outside of the downtube of most modern bicycles?
  • 7 1
 @Apfelsauce: I've had no issues to speak of with putting Hope hoses internally. Have done so on everything from downtube covered NS bikes to through headset Scott bikes.
  • 5 3
 @seraph: this is extra dumb here in BZ, hope importer is a chump. Getting pads is a nightmare.
  • 10 0
 @bonfire: Radic sell their own version…. And there is always Galfer and MTX…and CRC
  • 4 0
 @Apfelsauce: hope hoses haven't been 6mm for a long time now
  • 5 8
 Good thing nothing from spesh involved. #lawsuit #bully
  • 3 0
 Was 3d printing shit?
  • 8 1
 @seraph: hope pads kick ass
  • 4 0
 @handynzl: braking Italy makes some good pads for those too. All the best pad brands make hope pads
  • 10 1
 @seraph: Hope v4 pads are some of the sturdiest out there
  • 6 0
 @Apfelsauce: Yeah and theres a huge thread today about how people don't give a dam about internal routing at all.
  • 4 8
flag sherbet (Nov 5, 2022 at 7:59) (Below Threshold)
 No beef to Hope pads specifically, but as they're a standard, guide pads would be a lot easier to find for example, and as there's so many aftermarket options, there's absolutely excellent brakepads in the guide standard. I like hope and their products a lot, but the distributor has historically been a bit difficult to work with here.
  • 8 1
 @sherbet: hope distribution is irrelevant... Pretty much every aftermarket pad manufacturer makes a v4 pad, including galfer, trickstuff, etc. Trickstuff also went with the v4 pad shape for the maxima brake.
  • 3 4
 I have support from a lot more companies and a lot more options from more distributors for Sram based pads. Hopes are alright, but point here is shimano or sram based pads would have been easier to source with more aftermarket options.
  • 8 1
 @sherbet: Put a sram guide pad next to a hope V4 one and you will see the difference. Guide pad looks tiny and pathetic whereas the hope pads are designed to take some heat and punishment and last MUCH longer than anything from sram.
Guy who made these brakes clearly knows his stuff and there is a reason they are using a hope pattern.
  • 2 4
 @zyoungson: Code, Saint, etc. The point wasn't that the guide was a suggestion, it was an example. There are other vastly more easily sourced brake pads on the market.
  • 2 0
 @Apfelsauce: Hope has used 5mm hoses for quite some time.
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: there was an article on radic brakes in the latest spoke mag here in NZ about the 3d printing, they couldn't get the desired finish as it was too difficult unfortunately.
  • 2 0
 @bonfire: I've had good luck just going straight to the importer, theyll sell them straight to you. Just emailed them and got them sent to me within 2 days.
  • 3 3
 @seraph: ......speaking of dumb....
  • 1 0
 @as-capture: id be interested to see that i have a lot more to do with it these days than i used to
  • 2 1
 Shimano pads, are you insane?! That's like 60-75$ for a set. 23-30$ for Hope. I paid 25$ in my lbs instead of 23 on chainreaction... in Quebec, Canada, so I'm sure you can find some pads near you. That's one of the reason why I bought some tech4 E4 instead of MRP, Hayes or Formula brakes.
  • 28 1
 Those are cool! ~$700 if doing the conversion to USD, not bad
  • 9 0
 Exchange rate is bananas at the mo- heading to LA next week and ouch it’s like my NZD are cut in half.
  • 4 1
 My thoughts as well, depending on shipping costs I may buy in. Falls just under $800 to avoid duties as well.
  • 1 18
flag pakleni (Nov 4, 2022 at 14:01) (Below Threshold)
 700 for each side
  • 2 2
 @pakleni: wording is confusing as well. I'm in at $700, at $1400 I'll keep rocking my poverty Magura MT5 with HC levers. The article makes it sound like it's for both front and rear. "Each set of Radic Kaha brakes is machined and hand assembled in New Zealand for the tune of $1200 NZD."
  • 9 0
 @whitedlite: if you go to their website, linked in the article, you will find that the price is for both front and rear brakes (click on buy now option then scroll just a smidge and it's right there for all to read). No rotors supplied, and you need to specify your fluid of choice (there are no seals that do both fluids, so you need the correct type of seal material)
  • 2 1
 @Lumenous1: your mistake is leaving. It is so much better there. I will trade lives with you.
  • 5 4
 @handynzl: will it let me be a complete cockwomble and get 1 brake DOT and 1 mineral? LOL
  • 3 18
flag conoat (Nov 6, 2022 at 8:27) (Below Threshold)
 @kokofosho: NZD is a socialist dystopian shithole.
  • 3 2
 @conoat: said no one ever...ammirite?!
  • 1 0
 @conoat: cockwomble? I'm afraid to google that but love that word....
  • 1 4
 @RadBartTaylor: pretty innocuous word really. brit slang for idiot
  • 3 7
flag conoat (Nov 6, 2022 at 19:40) (Below Threshold)
 @c1olin: I don't know brah, you been paying attention for the last couple years? also, their taxation rate is destructive to people that actual do anything. I have tons of Kiwis in my circle that escaped once they started making money. lol. nothing like a system that drives out the best to make everyone equal!!!!
  • 5 2
 @conoat: Cool story bro. From where I'm sitting (in NZ) it's looking pretty good. From a taxation point of view NZ is actually one of the lower tax OECD countries:

"In income tax terms, New Zealand is taxed relatively lightly, according to OECD data.

If you combined all the tax a worker paid and any social security contributions they made, then subtracted government assistance like Working for Families, a single worker in New Zealand on an average income had a “tax wedge” of 19.4% in 2021. That was second-to-lowest in the OECD, ahead of only Colombia and Chile.

If it were a person who had a partner and children, they would have a tax wedge of just 6.5% on an average income. That was still second-lowest."

Source: www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/130094079/how-does-new-zealands-tax-bill-compare-to-other-countries#:~:text=If%20you%20combined%20all%20the,of%20only%20Colombia%20and%20Chile.

Sure, bikes and housing is expensive here but "socialist dystopian shithole" isn't my experience as a migrant to NZ and from a tax point of view, I pay significantly less tax than I did in Australia. But don't go letting the facts get in the way of your story.
  • 2 1
 @conoat: Unfortunately its a land of mediocrity, particularly with the current govt. But we seem to have less social issues than a lot of places and some sweet landscapes. Cant have everything.
  • 2 11
flag conoat (Nov 6, 2022 at 20:38) (Below Threshold)
 @rirkby: comparing one taxation rate from a socialist shithole to another, and proclaiming it good, is not really worthwhile.

also, forgiving taxation by what the state does for you with said money, is also not an argument for why taxation is good. ffs.

you are brainwashed to the absolute hilt.
  • 11 3
 @conoat: Socialist shithole? You're not really in a position to call anyone brainwashed.
  • 5 1
 @conoat: you may find you’re the one under the influence of any “brainwashing”.
  • 7 0
 @conoat: People of all political persuasions like mountain biking. People in New Zealand tend to be more left leaning than people in the United States, although both enjoy a free market economy. Anyone who genuinely believes that either is a shithole is probably brainwashed.
  • 3 1
 @conoat: Spoken like someone deep into the trump cult
  • 2 8
flag conoat (Nov 7, 2022 at 7:33) (Below Threshold)
 @Swangarten: I love it. anyone that doesn't believe people deserve to be locked inside their homes for 2 years and pay 70% of their wages to the state, is a Trumper.

just.....*slow clap*
  • 2 6
flag conoat (Nov 7, 2022 at 7:34) (Below Threshold)
 @Hieronymus: did you not watch what NZ, and your shithole country too btw, did to their subjects....errrrr...."citizens" during covid??
  • 2 3
 @jacks0n0: neither the US nor NZ have a free market. the US is freer, but hardly free. we have crony capitilism/corporatism, and NZ has a centralized socialist economy that is forced to behave capitalist adjacent to survice as it's a tiny island that needs loads of outside resources to survive.
  • 2 1
 @conoat: Riiight... Hold onto that naiveté
  • 1 0
 @Lumenous1: sorry are you comparing USD that is world standard to a small island money from a middle of nowhere Big Grin

Try being from eastern EU country where your money cut 20 fold and salaries top out around 400 USD a month Big Grin
  • 24 0
 Threaded pistons ... this is a life saver. Special tool that pulls pistons out.. I am in love with these
  • 3 0
 Seems like such an obvious decision choice, yet I've never seen it before. Genius.
  • 2 0
 @ohbmxer: I’ve actually seen that before, might have been in moto, though. However, it went the way of the dodo, when one piece calipers where introduced. And personally I prefer those, because back in the day I remember some issues with misalignment.
  • 20 0
 Well thought through product... Scott, Focus, Merida and Unno, take notes.
  • 11 0
 What's the power like though? That's the most important part.
  • 7 0
 Sounds well thought out and price isn't crazy. How powerful is this system? Do you have info on average braking torque at a specific rotor size or maybe the mechanical advantage of the system?
  • 3 10
flag gabriel-mission9 (Nov 5, 2022 at 6:28) (Below Threshold)
 They told you the piston sizes. The mechanical advantage offered by the lever very much depends where you place your finger on it, so is hard to quantise. i'd hazard a guess that the mechanical advantage from fingertip to pad is pretty much the same as every other brake out there. People get way too worked up about power and modulation etc. Assuming the caliper is reasonably stiff, these things will be mostly defined by the rotor and pads.
  • 5 3
 @gabriel-mission9: enduro mtb tested ~20 of the most popular brakes a couple years ago and they controlled for pad material and rotor size. Not all brake systems are created equal and some had significantly more power than others.
  • 5 0
 @haen: I didn't not know where they messed up, but their numbers were all over the place... that test is not a reliable reference
  • 1 2
 @thegoodflow: you’re saying they messed up because different braking systems got different results?
  • 5 0
 @haen: what? No, of course not, I'm saying that the test has no credibility, because if you look at the results and you're familiar with the real world performance of the brakes relative to one another, some of it makes absolutlely no sense. They say that hope e4 is significantly more powerful than hope v4, sram level ultimate is more powerful than guide ultimate, 2-piston xt is more powerful than zee.... none of that is even remotely accurate. Their results were bullshit.
  • 3 1
 @thegoodflow: Have you done your own objective test with controlled rotors and pads?
  • 1 2
 @haen: yep, totally. But I chose not to publish the data since my results were so far from reality that there was obviously some error in my methods.
  • 3 2
 as @thegoodflow says, that test was obviously total nonsense. The results it gave were worse than useless, and create more confusion than clarity. Standard mtb level science...
  • 2 1
 @gabriel-mission9: Please explain how the test is "obviously total nonsense".
  • 2 2
 @thegoodflow: Unless you're going to explain how the test was performed incorrectly, this is just a case of you valuing your subjective opinion over objective measurement.
  • 2 0
 @haen: @haen: The goodflow has already given you a pretty solid rundown of the results anomalies. Take the Hope E4/V4 results for example. Same pads, same rotor, same lever and same caliper design. The only difference is that the e4 trailing pistons are a touch smaller than the v4 trailing pistons. Everything else is equal. Yet their tests showed the e4 to be significantly more powerful.

Enduro-mtb tests are well known for being nonsense. This is yet another example of that. I don't need to explain what the exact flaws in the test were. I didn't watch them do the test, so I can't tell you how they screwed up, but I can absolutely state that they clearly did. If they did a test proving that a 1997 1.3l nissan micra can beat a bugatti veyron to 200mph, I wouldn't need to explain how the test was wrong. It just obviously is.

Brakes are not magic. They are a very simple mechanical system that multiplies the force applied by your finger, by whatever the mechanical advantage built into the system is. Don't be fooled by all the smoke and mirrors....
  • 1 1
 @gabriel-mission9: Read my initial post. I'm asking for details on the mechanical advantage of the system.
  • 1 1
 @haen: Read my original post. They have given the piston sizes. Mechanical advantage offered by the various pivot points at the lever are hard to quantize seeing as your finger does not always fall at a fixed point on the lever, but it is likely that the mechanical advantage offered is very similar to all the other brakes on the market.
  • 6 0
 Why would you get a shorter dead stroke if you bleed the brake with the pads in them (instead of with the pads removed and a block between the pistons)? Plus it seems to me that you would end up with pads snug against each other if you bleed them like that.
  • 2 0
 I think they would use a thinner bleed block to set any pad to the same distance to the rotor. I bet pad clearance is not so big than Shimano or Sram calipers,so you can achieve a shorter pull without overfilling the caliper. I had a Hope rx4+ caliper with a Saint lever and it is a very short pull,like 2mm of dead stroke,compared to 1 cm of death travel in regular Shimano or Sram lever. Hope caliper had a less open space for the pads/disc,the back part of the pads are flush with the caliper body,no visible piston out till you hit the brake lever.
  • 5 1
 Because whoever wrote that part doesn't understand how brakes work. If Radics designers wrote that part, then the brakes are likely junk. Let's hope it was just some goof in the pr dept. who thought they were being clever..
  • 3 2
 Bleeding with pads in is not a good idea, you use a bleed block because it doesn't matter if the bleed block gets brake fluid on it. If you bleed with extra fluid to keep lever stroke short it will pump up when it gets hot.
  • 7 0
 why no pic of the lever blade?
  • 2 3
 Go to their website….
  • 2 0
 Stoked to see Radic bring these brakes to the market! I’ll definitely be interested to see some reviews of these, as the hydraulic leverage looks good, but without having any kind of mechanism to alter the leverage ratio at the lever I would imagine they had to compromise with either free stroke or mechanical leverage/power? Also with the position of the plunger pivot, I imagine it would be sensitive to where the contact of the lever is as tangential force falls off somewhat quickly as you increase/decrease the angle away from 90 degrees. Anyone able to comment on these thoughts? Radic is certainly not the only one using this design but there seem to be slight differences (plunger rod length, pivot locations etc.) in all the design which could make a big difference in performance
  • 9 4
 Your comments are shit everyone, lift your fucking game.
  • 4 3
 Why does a fairly generic brake cost so much? There is literally nothing going on here that justifies the price tag. They're even using steel pistons. There is no reason this should cost any more than a hope brake. If anything it should cost less.
  • 5 0
 Didn't you read the boutique part?
  • 3 2
 Roughly 800€/£, I don't know how much Hoopes go for in the UK but in France it isn't that far off. Considering Hope has been pumping out some powerless brakes for decades I'd give a chance to these chaps. I know Hope finally decided to go onboard with powerfull brakes with their new lever but should we trust people that took 2 decades to figure this out ? Also they are a small business so they don't have scale savings yet. But compared to Trickstuff those are cheap enough so fair play imo.
  • 9 7
 I checked, Hope Tech4 V4 are nearly 600€ retail in France. I'd splash an extra 200€ to not give money to Brexiters lol.
  • 2 0
 @Balgaroth: about 520.- a set with braided hoses. But feel free to put your money where your mouth is.
  • 1 1
 @Balgaroth: Ha, fair play.
  • 2 0
 @Balgaroth: Uuuumm I never experienced the “powerless” part that you speak of. Been using Hopes for like 10 years now. A properly setup pair of Hope brakes is fantastic. I’ve had SRAM guides sieze up on me simply from being in the sun sitting on the bike rack while driving to the trail head. Shimano XT brakes having the bite point wander all over the place. Magura brakes needing bleed service more often than Hopes. Hope brakes simply work great and at a very fair price given the level of design and craftsmanship in their manufacture.
  • 1 0
 The biggest, fastest guy who works in my building (100kg and regularly wins national masters level enduro and dh races) uses Hope brakes and describes them as fantastically powerful. He's not even a big fan of Hope, doesn't use any of their components other than their brakes.

If they are powerful enough to stop him, they are powerful enough to stop anyone...
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: At the end of the day anything is able to stop anything, the difference is how hard you have to pull on the brake to create the same amount of braking power. The newest lever from Hope allowed them to have some review saying those are adequately powerfull while most of their brakes had reviews complaining about the lack of power, even if, yes, this term isn't right as you can create the same amount of power than with other brakes as long as you accept to pull harder on the lever.

And I agree that many if not most brakes on the market have one flaw or another, bite point, reliability, ridiculus pricing, lack of power, etc. So it's a matter of picking your poison really. For years I accepted the retarded bite point issue of Shimano to have a lot of power without having to pull much, currently I have high consistency but harder pull with a TRP, something like a "classic" Hope from what I can remember of Hope brakes before the new lever.
  • 1 0
 @Balgaroth: If hope brakes were not powerful enough, they would not work at all for a 100kg rider going at national race winning speed. As I find myself saying a lot on these forums, PB commenters seem to get way too worked up about the (mostly imagined) differences between brakes. The power they all offer for a given amount of fingertip pressure is pretty much the same. There is some small variation in the way the power is delivered, but even that is a much smaller thing than most make out. The real deciding factor when choosing brakes should be reliability and consistency. Something Hope are very good at.
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: BS. Factual data: go check Enduro-Mtb brake review, using calibrated machines to measure brake power with consistent lever actuation. Sram Guide T 55Nm of braking power, Shimano Saint 83Nm which is roughly 50% more power for the same pull on the lever. Or you can pull 50% less hard on the lever and had the same braking power for much less fatigue at the end of the day. A Sram Guide T will manage to create 83Nm too if you pull hard enough on the lever, which is my whole point. By the way the results of Hope brakes aren't terrible but are well below hat a Saint or MT5/7 can do. Those are factual data, you can argue all you want but Hope have been below the benchmark in term of power at least until the new lever, been said on many review, has been proven in a Lab, what more do you need ?
  • 1 0
 @Balgaroth: You aren't getting it. Just cos enduro-mag claim to have done a high quality test, doesn't mean they did a high quality test. One look at the results gives serious cause for concern...
This is the problem with "factual data", it can be just as erroneous as guesswork. Go on any flat-earther forum and you will find endless reams of so called "factual data". Highly accurate measurements of various variables, often measured on extremely high quality equipment. All showing that the earth "must be" flat, due to some extremely flawed methods, essentially measuring the wrong thing, or not accounting for some significant variable. In short, you can prove anything with bad data...
  • 1 0
 Ah, apologies. I am currently talking about the same (flawed) enduromag brake test with someone else on this forum, I got confused about which conversation that was when writing my reply above.

But yes, the gist of it is that enduro-mtb test was deeply and clearly inaccurate.
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: How is it inaccurate ? Also flat earth usually don't stand a second as soon as you start measuring things correctly, with a protocol and precision. I will admit that some data is begging some questions, mostly about the braking torque vs deceleration time which in some cases is a bit strange. I would put that mostly on the fact they didn't use a control brake pad for each brake and instead used OEM pads for each brake. Only bias I can see in this protocol and if they do it again using a control brake pad (say a Galfer Green, Purple or whatever that is available for all brakes on the market) would allow for even more comparable data. Using a control disc would also be a good idea. But one can also argue that testing with OEM recommended material is the way to go as you are testing a complete system against another. Other than that this protocol is reproducible and clearly detailed, scientifically speaking it is pretty spot on so I am curious as to what are you complaints about it.
  • 1 0
 @Balgaroth: I'd have been much happier if they had used literally the same rotor and pads for each test. (to clarify, I don't mean identical pads and rotors, i mean the same physical pads and rotors. I also understand that this is impossible due to pad shapes varying from caliper to caliper.) MTB brakes are so incredibly susceptible to huge variations in power due to contaminated or inconsistently bedded in pads, that you simply must control for this to get any reliable data. Even if this happened, there would still be inconsistencies due to pad and rotor wear over time. As is, I think the data they have produced causes more confusion than clarity. As you yourself pointed out regarding torque/decel, a quick read through of the results immediately provokes serious questions about the validity of the data. As it is, I think the test too unreliable to be used as evidence of much other than the problems caused by pad variations.
  • 1 0
 @Balgaroth: Further to that, caliper alignment, quality of bleed, ambient temps, equipment and protocol precision, human error. These things all need to be controlled for. There are literally thousands of variables that aren't covered in the write up of the test (nor in the test procedure itself I suspect).

Caliper alignment is a big one often overlooked in mtb. If your rotor gets pushed off to one side when the pads engage, this has a huge effect on braking power. I often get people ask me why my brakes are so much more powerful than their, apparently identical, brakes. 9/10 times their caliper is just very crooked, and 2 minutes with an allen key getting it all correctly aligned gives them an instant and obvious boost in braking power
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: I get what you mean but one can assume that most people don't want to read pages of testing protocol, I would say that their explanation of the protocol is quite detailed for this type of content/media. Now the testing has been done in lab by the lab techs so unless you consider them to be completely incompetent at their job I think it is fair to assume that things like caliper alignment, consistent conditions, bedding in and all the other basics have be controlled to a decent level.
From a very anecdotal perspective I find that their torque values are fairly consistent with my experience with the brakes of this list I got to try (Mt5/7, Saint, Sram stuff, TRP Slate).
I would be very curious to see the results with a control rotor and pad material, I would expect to see decel values much more consistent and coherent with torque values.
Anyway interesting discussion thanks !
  • 1 0
 @Balgaroth: Interesting discussion indeed. Thanks for taking the time.
In answer to your point about the lab techs: As a calibration, you can assume by default I think most people completely incompetent at their jobs. Big Grin I'm half joking... But I have met many high end (even wc level) mechanics, who I wouldn't let anywhere near my bikes with an allen key. There is certainly a lot of "it's not what you know it's who you know" in this industry sadly.
  • 1 0
 Ps. As for my comment about wc level techs who I don't think should be allowed allen keys... I wasn't talking about you adam Wink xx
Just in case you are reading this thread sometime in future and think I'm being a dick Razz
  • 2 1
 Nice looking brakes. But am I the only one who thought "background in designing dual clutches and gearboxes for supercars" in combination with "Taylor has chosen to use stainless steel for the piston material due to its low thermal conductivity" sounds wrong?! I mean, pots (the cooking kind) are usually made from SS, and those are not necessarily known for their "low thermal conductivity". I thought that was the main reason why we have ceramic pistons and all that crap. I went ahead and checked and indeed steel is fairly okay among the metals and better (i.e. lower conductivity) than aluminium, copper, silver and gold (there you go, dream of a tricked-out trickstuff brake with gold pistons), but still, compared to non-metallic materials it's on the high side. I guess the alternative in this case was to machine them from aluminium, in which case it is really better (and harder) to use steel. A slight wording change would make it more clear that Taylor went the extra mile.
Oh, and regarding the pads... I haven't compared Guide pads to Hope pads (and never seen a Hope pad in person), but how can the one be "better" than the other? Do they have a different total thickness?
  • 1 0
 @Hafermilch:

Stainless steel much different conductivity than steel
  • 3 0
 Hope V4 pads have significantly more surface area therefor pad material than a SRAM Guide pad.
  • 2 0
 320 Grams with steel braided hose, pads, and bled is light. Do most brake manufactures advertise their weights with a bleed, I know most don't advertise with the pads.
  • 2 0
 Are they as powerful as Trickstuff brakes with the same or better feel?
It’s like a tyre test with no comparisons to a DHF/DHR.
  • 1 0
 Would like a test of them. But who am I kidding? Still on Code R's from 4 years ago when I bought my bike, I am too cheap to upgrade those.
  • 3 0
 Is it too much to ask to see a pair strapped to a bike?
  • 2 0
 They are pretty much brand new and no one has really even had them on a bike yet, not really even people secretly testing them in nz
  • 1 0
 @dylanpoulsen: Daniel Self is running some I see
  • 4 0
 @dylanpoulsen: they can be 10 seconds old and they can be strapped to a bike for a photo shoot. I don't get what you're saying
  • 3 0
 Haha the "why use mineral oil" link 404s
  • 2 0
 Those brakes are some trick stuff, more so than trickstuff brakes.
  • 17 0
 Also, unlike Trickstuff you can actually buy them...
  • 1 0
 Still haven’t seen any updates from them. Changed their whole opp so they could quicken up production but still 18+ months out haha

These new Radics looks sweet and promising!
  • 1 0
 @stormracing: 100% my experience. I placed my order in March of 2021 - was told ~15 months. Here we are 20 months later... I am fine with spending $ on killer parts. But the lead time is pretty preposterous.
  • 2 0
 @stormracing: They claim they're they're "registering" retailers in their B2B store but "The supply situation is also improving, however it is not yet good enough for us to be able to give reliable info. Therefore, we still urge you to refrain from inquiries about delivery dates."

trickstuff.de/customerinformation-erp-2
  • 2 0
 They look nice, but has anyone been able to try and test them yet?
  • 1 1
 I like to see boutique brakes. It really helps to appreciate Sainta with stainless steel wire mesh hoses and sintered brake pads for a fraction of a price.
  • 2 0
 I'll paint these red and slap some Brembo stickers on.
  • 2 1
 Brakes need to be bigger now . Some one needs to think outside the box
  • 13 0
 How about we make the disc the same size as the rim, and then throw the disc away to save weight and just brake directly on the rim? And to add power we'll mount the pads on levers.....
  • 1 0
 Do we even need breaks? Skis don't have breaks yet they stop much better than bikes, lets try and make bikes stop like skis.
  • 4 0
 @inside-plus: Save even more weight and ditch the bike. You can stop and start without any kind of braking system.
  • 2 0
 KIA KAHA BRO!
  • 1 0
 But do they have pad contact adjustment? I need that. Lol.
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: Because it allows you to adjust your levers exactly the same with the position where they first start to brake. One is not further out than the other unless you want it that way. Yeah, you can adjust the lever with position adjustment to adjust contact point, but both levers may not be in the same position. It is precision fine tune.

I have had pad contact adjustment since the Avid Juicy 7s (2005?) and instantly was sold on that feature.
  • 1 0
 More lever pictures please
  • 1 0
 Good to know supercars was added to this price tag
  • 2 5
 this is the worst product photography i've ever seen
Below threshold threads are hidden





You must login to Pinkbike.
Don't have an account? Sign up

Join Pinkbike  Login
Copyright © 2000 - 2023. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.035667
Mobile Version of Website