Review: Trek's 2023 Fuel EX-e Is Light & Nearly Completely Silent

Jul 11, 2022 at 21:53
by Matt Beer  
Breaking out into the emerging genre of lightweight e-MTBs is Trek’s new sub-40 lb* Fuel EX-e. Rolling on dual 29” wheels, the EX-e touts 140mm of rear-wheel travel and a 150mm fork, just 10mm more per end than the standard Fuel EX. The weights of the bikes hover around the 18kg mark and are only available in carbon frames, but that's not the most impressive part of this bike.

This is not just a trimmed Rail, Trek’s full-powered, longer travel eMTB. The German-based TQ Group, which specializes in mechanical and electrical equipment, built the powerplant and control unit exclusively to mesh with Trek’s frame architecture. Trek and TQ worked meticulously to create a homogenous bike from the ground up, using their expertise in carbon construction and electrical motors. The bike delivers 50 Nm of torque, and is nearly completely silent when the motor is engaged.
Fuel EX-e Details

• Wheel size: 29" (27.5" rear compatible)
• OCLV Carbon frame
• ABP suspension design
• Travel: 140mm, 150mm fork
• Head tube angle: 64.7º (LO)
• Seat tube angle: 76.7°
• Reach: 427, 452, 482, 507mm
• Chainstays: 440mm
• Motor: TQ HPR 50
• Battery: TQ 360Wh w/160Wh extender
• Weight: 18.33 kg / 40.40 lb (as tested)
• Price: $6,499 - 13,999 USD
trekbikes.com


The EX-e comes in four frame sizes and six built kits, all of which use Trek’s OCLV carbon. Pricing starts at $6,499 USD for the EX-e 9.5 which is built with entry-level RockShox suspension and Shimano Deore drivetrain pieces, while the 9.9 XX1 AXS adorned with all of the electronic fixings from SRAM for a cool $13,999. Matching the component capabilities of the Rail 9.9 XX1 AXS that we tested back in autumn of last year, the Fuel EX-e features Tirewiz and AirWiz that monitor the pressure in the tire and suspension systems, as well as the electronic shifting and dropper post duties that we’ve come to expect from SRAM on these top tier builds.

*Only medium-size frames with 9.8 XT and 9.9 XTR build kits sneak below the 40 lb mark.



bigquotesChoosing any bike from the Fuel family means that your rides focus on pedalling and if you choose the e-assist route, you don't want to be hassled by a whiney motor. TQ and Trek have certainly set raised the bar sky-high in that regard. Matt Beer





Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith
Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Frame Details

Pretend you could eliminate the electrical components around the cockpit. The Fuel EX-e could easily fool you into being a traditional bike, sans motor. The entire ethos of the bike is “slim”, from the integrated top tube display unit to the downtube that is 39% smaller than the volume of the Rail's (which holds a much bigger batter). Even the charge port is tucked away above the water bottle holder, well above the splash zone.

The bike continues to use the ABP suspension layout and a rocker link housing the Mino Link flip-chip to adjust the geometry a smidge, but an alteration to the seat mast junction optimizes standover height and brings a new look. You'll see that the bike is decked out and comes with the handy BITS steer tube tool and a removable rear axle skewer too.

Trek has also opted to ditch the Knock Block on this frame and it utilizes a standard lower shock mount this time around. They’ve added an effective mudflap above the main pivot and the paint on this frame has been much more durable than that of the Rail I tested. Below the motor area, there are no ISCG tabs, but the bikes will be supplied with a custom skid plate (there were a few items that our early test bike didn’t come with due to supply squeezes) which should save your vitally important chain.



Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith
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Click the video to listen to the motor sound at 75 and 100 RPM on a steed, paved gradient. The sound of the shifting is a good indicator or how discrete the motor really is.

Motor Details

Remember those circular stencils from pre-school that rotated on geared teeth to create patterns? That’s basically the same movement that the harmonic pin ring motor makes, except it’s driven by a current that flows through copper coils. TQ has used this system before but scaled it down exclusively for Trek to give the EX-e 50Nm of torque through three tunable power assist levels.

What’s special about this motor is that it moves at a much lower RPM which is one of the keys to keeping it deadly quiet. Tonality is described as the harmony of sounds and the unit is measured by comparing the amplitude of the tonal note against the surrounding frequencies. Basically, it’s how annoying the sound is and the Fuel EX-e clocks in at 0.1 on the tonality scale, compared to another competitor’s motor that was almost four times higher.

The small but mighty HPR motor is also compact, and has the same Q-factor as a traditional bike of 135mm. Sitting mostly behind the bottom bracket the motor allows for chainstays that are reasonably short; 440mm on all sizes.

How exactly did Trek and TQ manage to package all of that technology into such a slim figure? For starters, they started from scratch, with TQ borrowing technology and expertise from their other industries, such as aviation and robotics. Once Trek laid out the parameters for the motor capacity and volume, TQ was able to build a motor that is 30% smaller than most competitors.

Not only is the HPR discrete, it has a high torque density and weighs 1,850 grams. All that power in such a small package is highly efficient, and only saps about 3 watts of power when pedalling at a normal 80 RPM. That means you can ride the bike without assistance and it feels very ordinary. I could see this technology evolving to longer travel bikes that could ditch the battery quickly for bike laps or days riding with friends that have traditional bikes.




Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Battery Details

Ask and you shall receive; SRAM’s AXS derailleurs can now be powered from the bike’s battery. Not into that idea? Simply remove the cable and install an AXS battery. It’s completely retrofittable. How do you shift when the battery fully drains? Trek and TQ’s engineers left enough power in the tank to complete two hundred shifts.

The main battery slides out of the downtube after unscrewing a few bolts and doesn’t require the motor to be removed first. There’s a nifty handle to carry the 360Wh battery, which only weighs 1,830 grams and can be charged separately from the bike. You can also connect front and rear lights to the system, which is a great idea if you’re covering a lot of road or returning after dark.

Conveniently, the 160Wh range extender battery that straps into the water bottle cage acts as a charger for the main battery and depletes it first. The charge time for both batteries is two hours and the extender adds 900 grams to the system, although a functional one was unavailable at the time of the test. We found that the extender works best with the Bontrager Side Load cage after some wrestling to get it into another aftermarket branded one.

If you’re looking to shed even more weight, the bike can be ridden with only the extender or without any of the batteries, but keep in mind, that you’ll need to install a derailleur battery on the AXS models for that. The shifting doesn’t work with the motor is off when the cable is attached either, which is the tiniest inconvenience when you have to move the derailleur to the lowest gear and pull the rear wheel.

The first time you deplete the battery, which is bound to happen when you’re 8km away and the rain is coming down in sheets, you may lose power at up to 15%. If there’s one thing that Trek and TQ missed with the Fuel EX-e, it would be running the battery through this cycle before it leaves the factory to avoid a customer’s first ride experience, but maybe I’m just jaded. After that, you can fully trust the display to accurately predict the battery life.

Working to preserve the last few battery life bars, which are always presented at the top of the display, is the motor output limiter. Once the battery reaches 10%, the output will be limited to 110W and the display will blink to signify that motor feedback.




Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith
Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith


Display, Controls, and App Integration

Displayed in front of you in the top tube is the sleek screen, also made by TQ, that uses one button to toggle between stats, such as RPM, battery life, range, and speed. Together, the remote and the display weighs about only 60 grams. The screen is held in place by a single bolt and the backlight auto-adjusts to any time of day.

Keeping the cockpit clutter-free was the goal here as the entire premise of the bike is meant to be less cumbersome than a full-powered e-bike. Compared to the Bosch remote on the Rail, this sleek controller is worlds apart. There’s also the option to turn off the motor for descending. That means you can toggle between “Off”, “Mid”, and “Boost” power modes with the blip of a button on the handlebars. To engage walk-assist hold the up button, or hold the down button to eliminate any assistance for descending.

During the test period, the app was not available, so we didn't get to play with the motor tuning options or range cloud feature to let you know how far you can travel with the remaining battery life. Connecting to Strava through any of your preferred ANT+ devices is possible, plus the app will display the AirWiz and TireWiz pressure sensors on the 9.9 XX1 AXS model.

TQ has built out an app too, but the Trek version will have all of the same options. Through the app, you can access the TQ diagnostic mode when the physical dongle is connected to the bike to troubleshoot any issues that may occur.






Geometry & Sizing

Contemporary is a nice way to describe an enduro bike that could have used one degree removed from the head angle, but the Fuel EX-e is not aimed at that style of riding. Instead of focusing soley on the descents, its focus is on making climbs enjoyable and keeping the speed up on the flats with plenty of might in reserve for the downhills.

64.7-degrees is a very acceptable head tube angle for a bike in this category and you could make that slacker by boosting the fork up to 160mm, but then you’d lose a bit of that pleasant climbing position. The seat tube angle lies at 76.7 in the slack setting, which doesn’t throw too much weight over the 440mm chainstays.

That figure remains the same for all four sizes and the reach starts at 427mm for a small, moves up to 452 on the medium that I tested, followed by 482 and 507 on the large and extra-large frames. Limiting the size run to four frames cuts costs, but it does leave a gap in choices, should you stand around the 177cm mark.

The low stack height is another number that tells a tale of where and how the bike is intended to be bike ridden. That’s not exactly leading the charge when it comes to lengthy wheelbase trends, but what it does do well is keep the Fuel EX-e on its toes.




Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Suspension Design

Trek’s tried and true Active Braking Pivot (ABP) is a four-bar system that has been in action since 2011. A co-rotating pivot around the rear axle works to isolate braking forces from the suspension. The system delivers 140mm of travel from the Trunnion mounted 230x60mm RockShox Super Deluxe Ultimate Air, but the leverage curve will also work with a coil shock too.




Specifications
Price $13999
Travel 140
Rear Shock RochShox Super Deluxe Ultimate AirWiz
Fork RockShox Lyrik Ultimate AirWiz
Headset IS 42/56
Cassette SRAM XX1 AXS Eagle 10-52T, 12 spd
Crankarms E*thirteen E*spec Race carbon, 34T, 165 mm length
Chainguide E*thirteen
Bottom Bracket TQ HPR 50
Rear Derailleur SRAM XX1 AXS Eagle 12 spd
Chain SRAM XX1 AXS Eagle 12 spd
Shifter Pods SRAM XX1 AXS Eagle 12 spd
Handlebar Bontrager RSL MTB 27.5mm
Stem Bontrager RSL MTB 45mm
Grips Bontrager
Brakes SRAM Code RSC 200 mm
Wheelset Bontrager Line Pro 30 Carbon
Tires Bontrager SE5 Team Issue
Seat Bontrager Arvada
Seatpost RockShox Reverb AXS



Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith
Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith


Our Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS shipped before Trek could include a few items, including; the new app, battery range extender, and SRAM's AirWiz and TyreWiz pressure monitors. We did have experience with those features since they were covered in the Rail 9.9 XX1 AXS First Look.






Test Bike Setup

Stuck in the size gap between a medium and large again, I opted for the smaller Fuel EX-e frame after spending time on the lengthy 487 mm reach of its full-powered sibling, the Rail. I knew the shorter bike would take advantage of the lightweight e-MTB and make all of the low-speed riding a hoot. What I didn’t expect was the short head tube and maxed handlebar height to pull my weight over the front wheel.

On the first ride, I found myself leaning too far forward for my liking, but that was easily remedied with a rebalance of the suspension pressure and a second token in the fork. I remembered Henry sharing a similar experience with his time on the Top Fuel at the 2021 Fall Field Test. With the 150mm Lyrik pumped to 120 PSI and the Super Deluxe at 184 PSI, the ride felt much more equal for the steeper “BC XC” around Squamish.

Matt Beer
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
Age: 35
Height: 5'10" / 177 cm
Weight: 170 lb / 77 kg
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @mattb33r

Beach lovers have been frowning over the wet and mild summer weather, but that’s made the dirt in the middle of the Sea to Sky incredible for riding. It has made the roots unsuspectingly slippery for this time of year and for the most part, I chose to keep the Fuel EX-e’s head above water when it came to trail choice. Sure, it was tested on some slabs and steeps, but I listened to what the bike wanted: dirt ribbon single track.




Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Climbing

When I first learned about the new genre of bike, I was confused why Trek didn’t replicate the Rail in a lighter-weight package, and then we hit the trail. Straight out of the door, the motor is the first thing you notice, or at least the boost from the eerily quiet motor. Only until you get to the higher RPMs is any audible hum apparent - those are present in Boost mode around 95-100 RPM, but even then, you can tell that Trek and TQ have done their homework. That tonality number isn’t just pseudo-science. Pedalling the EX-e is so much more pleasant than some other offerings out there.

The power delivery is extremely smooth too. At 50 Nm, it’s slightly trickier to critique compared to a full-powered e-MTB, but we’ll get into how it stacks up against bikes like the Orbea Rise and Specialized Levo SL shortly. Where it really shines is how it manages the torque. I can’t remember spinning out once and having to dab a foot. Even on tech climbs, I felt like the boost mode was never jolting, it was optimal to choose less power when trying to manage pedal stroke timing with rear-wheel traction. Granted, it’s not a large burst like the 85 Nm of the Rail. The important thing to note is that each mode is notably unique and is brought on incredibly smoothly.

This is where there is a temporary problem that cannot be undone by any amount of engineering: you won’t be able to keep up with a full-powered E-bike on lengthy, steep climbs. Ok, so set the assist to Boost. That might keep you in touch for a few minutes, but you’ll be working like a dog. At best, you’re still only getting 50 Nm of torque. Plus, you’ll absolutely rinse the battery dry in about thirty minutes. If you’re conservative, you could run it in Eco mode and chill with your friends on non-assist bikes, but there are still three basic divisions of bikes, so you’ll have to find riding mates with similar style bikes or deal with the moaning of, “Oh. You brought the e-bike today,” or, “You should have bought the full meal deal!” That doesn’t make or break this bike. It simply puts it in a separate category, which is gaining some serious traction.

As for the handling, it likes to be on the move due to more weight being placed on the handlebars. That emphasizes driving your legs long instead of resting on your butt on the saddle and cruising along in a relaxed position. Once I embraced that riding position and learned its advantages the Fuel EX-e turned into a rocketship. Putting the power down on the pedals pulls the bike through corners rather than pushing it through where a slacker head angle might be more prone to understeer.

It’s not a full-attack cross-country race position, but it took a couple of rides to acclimatize to. Being on the upper end of the suggestive height for Trek’s medium frame could be part of this. Another point of view might be that Trek opted to keep the quick handling geometry to make the bike feel daintier and alive at lower speeds, in places where a full-powered e-bike can feel like a handful.

Out of the saddle, there is very little wasted energy. That redesigned RockShox Super Deluxe is brilliant and might fool me for a coil shock if I couldn’t see it. The breakaway is stellar and keeps the rear wheel glued to the ground on the slipperiest, techiest trails. Grasping the lockout isn’t as easy as it has been with the Super Deluxe and both the twist-action of the lever and the support of the climb switch are solid.

Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith
Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith




Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Range

This is a major grey zone that varies depending on so many factors. It’s a bit like deciding on how much water to drink on a hot day. You could drain it all quickly, or sip it over the course of your ride. Trek claims that you can get up to 5 hours of riding in Eco mode, but I would imagine that’s on very mellow terrain.

Around Squamish, some of the trails are shared-use with moto trials bikes. You’d often encounter rock slabs that most people would be happy to ride down, not up and punchier climbs. That wasn’t the only kind of riding I did, because singletrack is what the Fuel EX-e loves. I was able to commute to the trailhead to cover between 20 and 30km while climbing between 650 and 800m using a variety of modes; primarily the Mid power mode and Boost for some of the steep road grades, but I could also milk the battery on Eco mode when the juice dipped to one third.

On a few of those rides longer than 90 minutes, I drained the battery completely and still pedalled home without thinking much about the drag from the motor. I’d compare it to riding a trail bike on the flat asphalt with downhill tires versus a standard trail casing.




Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith


Descending

Edgey like a knife, not a hammer, the Fuel EX-e doesn’t shy away from chunder, but it shouldn’t be jumped blindly over rises into piles of rocks. Not that it can't handle that - it’s a mighty 140mm of travel. You just shouldn’t expect it to get away with the same exact moves you'd perform on an enduro bike.

Moving through low-angle terrain is where the Fuel EX-e excels. The extra weight never felt like a burden to pick up and pump the ground or when transitioning into a turn. That suspension has a solid platform to push against and generate speed from corners without diving or wallowing about.

I’d actually forget that I was riding a bike with a motor. Fighting to slow the bike and initiate the lean into a corner makes me shy away from full-powered e-bikes. That’s not the case with the Fuel EX-e. Tipping the bike side to side through consecutive corners happens quickly and naturally.

On those heinous steep sections and rough bits of track there are two friends backing you up; Code RSC brakes with dual 200mm rotors and that fantastic Super Deluxe Ultimate. The new RockShox forks with the ButterCups offer some of the most active fork suspension I’ve ridden. They work their magic to take the edge off of those roots and stutter bumps too. For the first time in a while, I found myself turning the damping down to dial in the composure of the front wheel - it’s very reactive if you like that kind of ride. All three of those components do an impeccable job to keep you grounded when you need the tires to hook up the most.

Even a keen ear would struggle to hear any noises from the motor, battery, or cables on the descents, which is definitely not the case with some e-MTBs. Not one rattle or backlash from the motor was heard. There’s a full chainstay protection wrap right up to the chainguide which keeps that racket to a minimum.

One thing I often bring up is the need for a bash guard, and although it's an option, I’d like to see it mounted right away. This bike is loaded with the latest and greatest tech, so why not protect those crucial pieces of the drivetrain?

I’d also prefer if the steertube was left another 10mm higher, just to play with that option of raising the front end, especially considering how you can’t simply change the handlebar for a higher rise option. Stacking headset spacers on top of your one-piece bar and stem detract from the clean aesthetics, but trimming down the steertube isn’t a huge job either.

Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith




Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith
Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith


Technical Report

TQ HPR50 Motor: You know Trek and TQ are onto something special when you watch someone with high standards and low expectations jump on this bike and come back in awe of just how damn quiet the motor is. Hats off to the two teams who built this bike. It's a well-oiled machine and hasn't missed a beat, even in torrential downpours and plenty of bike washing with no precautions taken. You know exactly what to expect when you stand on the pedals or let off for that matter. That tiny harmonic pin ring drive unit is the golden goose of e-bike motors.

Bontrager SE5 Team Issue Tires: Holding back the stellar singletrack mind of the Fuel EX-e are the Bontrager SE5 tires though. They work decently in dry dirt, but through the rain-soaked summer we’ve had in Squamish they quickly spun out on polished roots and glistening rock. Their round profile on the Line 30mm wide rims meant that leaning on the side lugs commitment and time to reach. I swapped them early on for something with more tackiness to unlock what the bike was really capable of.

Bontrager Raceshop SLR bars: I dig the unibrow look of the one-piece bar and stem - thankfully there are no integrated cables. The 6 and 7-degree up and backsweep might not be the most common, but I got along well with the straighter backwards bend. Although, I did notice a little more pressure on my palms than normal. Most bars tend to have a 5-degree upsweep and can be rolled in the stem clamping surface to your liking. Initially, I chalked up the hand fatigue to the low front end, but it might be worth thinking about slip-on grips if you start to feel discomfort here. I also trimmed the width down from a whopping 820mm to 770 and never felt like they were too stiff.

RockShox Super Deluxe: This shock in combination with the suspension kinematics is phenomenal. There's plenty of range to twist the dials and it's not overly complicated. No matter the size of the impact, the shock ate it all with forgiveness and support when needed, only ever using the perfect amount of travel. I'd go far enough to say that, aside from the motor, it's the standout component on the bike.

Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith
Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS
Specialized Turbo Levo SL Expert Carbon

How Does It Compare?

To be fair, there aren't a lot of other bikes in this lightweight e-MTB category, at least from mainstream brands. The two main players before the Fuel EX-e arrived on the scene were the Orbea Rise and the Specialized Turbo Levo SL. The Rise uses Shimano's full-size EP8 motor, but it has been de-tuned in terms of power and runs off of a smaller battery, while the Levo SL uses a different motor than its full-powered e-MTB siblings from the big "S". All three competitors come in carbon-framed offerings and hover around the 18-19 kilogram mark.

Where they are drastically different are the power delivery, output, and noise levels. The Shimano motor in the Rise has plenty of jam, but it is the least refined and the gears rattle considerably on the descents. The Rise frame geometry also has a more conservative feel with a steeper 65.5-degree head angle. On the other hand, the Levo SL doesn't have extreme geometry and the minimal motor output emits a higher pitch whine than the Rise. Its power delivery is smoother than the Rise, although all three bikes can be tuned via apps.

Then there's also the cost factor. Yes, this top-spec Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS has all of the bells and carbon whistles, but compared to the equivalent Specialized S-Works Turbo Levo SL, it comes in under the $14K mark. They are both well-finished bikes that are very sleek, but the extra power and minimal noise of the Fuel EX-e wins out by a mile. Looking back at the Orbea, the price is reasonable, but the motor trades a boost in power for a less polished experience.

Simply put, nothing comes close to the Fuel EX-e when you paint the picture of the mountain bike experience as a whole. Up and down the hill, the TQ motor rides along under the yellow carbon carpet in such a hush manner that you'd barely know it's there. You also have to factor in the torque density and packaging. Look at it - it's tiny and powerful.

The only way I could see it improving would be to revert the AXS derailleur back its own battery pack and use a similar size remote on the motor assist controller for zero wires. I know that goes against the grain of tying all those servos to a central power bank, but I'd prefer to eliminate those tiny wires before they get eliminated on the trail.

Torques
Turbo Levo SL: 35 Nm
Orbea Rise: 60 Nm
Trek Fuel EX-e: 50 Nm
Batteries
Turbo Levo SL: 320 Wh + 160 ext.
Orbea Rise: 360 Wh + 252 ext.
Trek Fuel EX-e: 360 Wh + 160 ext.




Trek Fuel EX-e 9.9 XX1 AXS Photo Dave Smith

Pros

+ Nearly silent motor output that doesn't rattle on descents
+ Motor, battery, and overall bike packaging is top-notch
+ Very supple, yet supportive suspension


Cons

- Using Boost mode to keep up with full-powered e-bikes won't get you that far
- Motor worked very well, but it's still a newer entry into the field when it comes to long term durability


Pinkbike's Take

bigquotesTrek's foray into the lightweight eMTB category with the Fuel EX-e is a true beauty of a trail bike, assisted or not. You have to appreciate how seamlessly Trek and TQ have tied the whole package together. The singletrack hunter loves to keep the pace high, bobbing and weaving through turns. On the trail, it flies under the radar in both its appearance and the noise emitted, which fooled many bystanders.

All elements of a modern mountain bike are incorporated into this super slim e-bike, such as carbon everywhere, electronic shifting and pressure monitors, trick suspension, and that stealthy motor, not to mention the tidy integration of the controls. Looking forward, it will be interesting to see how this technology is passed along the Trek mountain bike lineup and how other brands react to the Fuel EX-e.
Matt Beer









408 Comments

  • 307 37
 Ashamed that you're riding an e-bike? Well now you can hide that shame a little better with silent e-bike!
  • 24 1
 Alexa play "Little Dark Age"
  • 157 165
flag slickwilly1 (Jul 12, 2022 at 9:45) (Below Threshold)
 Not ashamed at all! Just got one a month ago, still ride my acoustic bike at about 50/50 split.. keeping both bikes.. pound the pedals a couple days a week to keep up the fitness and use the ebike for my recovery days and loads of descending.. haters gonna hate, but I won’t hold it against you..
  • 272 46
 @slickwilly1: please never say “acoustic bike” ever again. If mountain bikes start to get marketed as acoustic mountain bikes I will be riding a sick loamer off of a cliff. We don’t need more marketing buzzwords to make doctors feel special when they blow $10k at their local Specialized dealer.
  • 120 31
 @nbram: ACOUSTIC BIKE WITH ACOUSTIC GEARS ACOUSTIC DROPPER ACOUSTIC SUSPENSION AND EVEN ACOUSTIC VALVES
  • 80 77
 @slickwilly1: On the flipside, I definitely hold it against you that you're riding a moped and calling it a bike.
  • 121 51
 @nbram: Yes 1000%. a mountain Bike is a Mountain Bike, An E-bike is an E-bike ( not a mountain Bike ). No need to use the word acoustic or analog, or any other word to describe a real mountain bike.
E-bikes are their own sport and classification. Kind of like paddleboarders are to Surfers.
  • 25 101
flag pruss1 (Jul 12, 2022 at 10:13) (Below Threshold)
 @Three6ty: all good points, but I do think acoustic mountain bike has a nice sound to it.
  • 51 5
 @Three6ty: im off to play my e-guitar
  • 11 1
 no one has noticed the electric water bottle that plugs in the down tube yet where do i fill that up
  • 4 4
 @Tjameson: AND ACCOUSTIC SOUND. UNLIKE THIS SILENT EBIKE
  • 64 31
 @slickwilly1: I don't understand why people refer to a mountain bike now as an 'acoustic' bike, or anything else. It is a mountain bike, simple.

Whereas an e-bike is not. I am not hating on them, but they aren't mountain bikes. They are electric bikes, motor (assisted) bikes, pedelecs, boomer scooters, whatever you want to call them. But they aren't mountain bikes.
  • 9 4
 @slickwilly1: please stop bikes, acoustic bikes.
  • 6 3
 Calling*
  • 21 0
 Might be a little shocking trying to drink from that water bottle?
  • 17 3
 Counterpoint: I think acoustic bikes should acually refer to e-bikes.

Because, as we learned from Metalocalypse, acoustic things are for grandpas.
  • 22 41
flag Xlr8n (Jul 12, 2022 at 12:08) (Below Threshold)
 @nbram: @slickwilly1: No need for "acoustic" bike...just use 'vision impaired' bike...as-in for those that haven't seen the light yet! lol Wink

Most of the haters will all come around sooner or later just like they always do. Boost. travel, slack, carbon, tubeless, droppers, 29er, etc. etc. etc. It's always the devil to them until they actually try it and like it.
  • 3 15
flag gooral (Jul 12, 2022 at 12:21) (Below Threshold)
 @Three6ty: 1000% is just bad maths. That's impossible. It cannot be more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most it can be.
Mtb is just an mtb and that is what it should be called, but people do what they do and no one can stop them if they want to call it differently, if you like it or not. Personally it cracks me up when people call an mtb "an Amish bike"
  • 6 0
 @jgoldfield: GRANDPA GUITARS!
  • 17 3
 If an a bike goes on a trail, and nobody knows it’s an ebike, does anybody really care?
  • 24 5
 Ashamed that you're riding an e-bike? Well now you can hide that shame a little bett...

Nope.

No you cant.
  • 2 1
 @Compositepro: guitar hero?
  • 11 4
 @Xlr8n: Adding a motor to a bike is pretty different than any of those other innovations you’ve mentioned. Like it would be if you had one of those little kid cars that your feet can touch the ground so it’s really hard and doesn’t have a motor so you get strong and don’t grow up to be a snowflake. Once you put a motor on that toy the kid loses out on not being a snowflake and it’s no longer a little push car, it’s a motor car. Maybe it’s super fun. Maybe it’s really cool. Who cares. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand
  • 3 3
 not ashamed ---just old
  • 3 0
 @nbram: don't forget it's tuned to drop "D".
  • 5 1
 @bendy12345: basically, if it's limit by range (battery/fuel), it's some form of motorized vehicle.

BTW: that battery range will not endure a normal morning ride [35km / 1200m]
  • 1 4
 @Three6ty: wow you’ve really got a lot of unhinged feelings about this. Maybe you should look inward.
  • 2 3
 Ok, edgelord.
  • 3 1
 I'm into this. Really hoping for a future of hybrids betwen e- and meat-bikes. Currently I have one e-MTB and three meat-MTB's (they're driven by me(at), hence meat). Having one bike that I could just plop the battery out and use as a normal meat-bike with a small 1kg penalty in the motor would be awesome. Think of all the beer I could stash in the battery-compartment as well! Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @nbram: or yeti Smile
  • 1 0
 @Tjameson: Klunker ?
  • 1 2
 @nbram: Agree I think we have all moved past the term Accoustic term ....and "Amish" is a far more appropriate term for a group reluctant to adopt many conveniences of modern technology.
  • 1 1
 @DestructorNZ: realistically speaking, how can someone who needs assistance to ride, is more "modern"?

The line that separates those who ride MTB Bikes, and those who ride some kind of Moped, it's not the pedals, or of it's modern, is HOW LONG YOU CAN GO

Riding offroad on ebikes has open doors for so many mo...people, that now I understand what Roadcyclist said about MTBriders.
Majority are just a bunch of pussys
  • 172 13
 For the moto crowd: this bike retails for 1.19659799983 KTM 450 SX-F Factory Editions
  • 55 6
 But there is one for $7599 that weighs 42lbs and has Fox performance 36 and Float X with SLX drivetrain and brakes.... not bad AT all Smile
  • 20 48
flag Hamburgi (Jul 12, 2022 at 9:24) (Below Threshold)
 For that money im going to buy a Sur-Ron.
  • 12 3
 @Hamburgi: And be able to use it in lots of places?
  • 11 2
 @Hamburgi: I hate those things, but yeah, me too.
  • 4 4
 @dmackyaheard: that 9.7 might be the bang for the buck winner...
  • 7 4
 @Hamburgi: you are now on the most hated list for honesty
  • 66 16
 @dmackyaheard: You know what else you could get for 8k? You could get a KTM Feeride E-XC. An actual, full-scale electric MX motorcycle.

E-MTB prices are completely f*cked. And y'all know who causes them to be f*cked, right? The people who keep dropping 14k on E-MTBs.
  • 9 9
 @Muscovir: Yeah, mountain bikes are expensive. There are plenty of high end regular mountain bikes that cost as much as a new KTM. A Yeti with the exact same build costs $6500. $7600 for a carbon e-bike is a good value in comparison to the rest of the market of e-bikes, and even compared to some regular bikes. Ebikes are not motorcycles or dirt bikes, but they also are not traditional mountain bikes either.
  • 9 2
 @Compositepro:

People feeling triggered?

Ok lets buy for that money a nice Tri-bike, hell yeah.
  • 2 1
 @dmackyaheard: True that. It applies to the prices of mountainbikes aswell.
  • 4 1
 @redrook:

On one model its possible to ride with a licence plate.


But yeah for that amount of money you get a lot of different nice things....
  • 9 6
 @Hamburgi: I've seen actual planes that cost less. Pretty sure you could find yourself a Cessna 150 or Taylorcraft BC12 for right around the same price as this bicycle.
  • 7 8
 @redrook: Yup. More places that an MTB. There are quite a few places for offroading around here that I would never touch with an MTB, but I could easily ride with a dirtbike or a Sur-ron.
But, if all you know is MTB and have never explored outside that realm I suppose you would also be surprised by what you can do with them.
  • 5 4
 @Hamburgi: you can buy 3 sur-rons for that
  • 8 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: Cheapest 150 on Trade-A-Plane is $24k, and I wouldn't want a $14k 150 even if I could find it because it would probably end up costing me more than the $24k one after everything is fixed on it.

Now, getting an ultralight might be possible at that price AND you don't need a PPL
  • 2 1
 @nickfranko: Sounds about right I'm no plane guy I got a plane friend who snagged a cheap piper cub thing for like 16k and a very healthy heap of repair. Personally, I'd buy a wake/ski boat from the early 2000's for the money
  • 1 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: You sure? If so, plane prices in the US must be drastically different from Europe. I don't think you can get a 150 over here for less than 20-30k. And once you're done having it fixed it would probably cost closer to 40k.
  • 15 1
 @ryanandrewrogers: Interested. How well does a Cessna 150 handle my local trails? Thx for the hot tip!
  • 6 0
 @SunsPSD: how well does this e-bike handle the sky?
  • 26 9
 Have you heard about people that spend $2500 on a bike!!!? I can go to Walmart and get one for $199!!

Seriously people, please stop making comparisons to boats, airplanes, your parents first house, cars, your mail order husbands, etc. People are buying them. If and when they stop buying them the prices might come down, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
  • 4 0
 I measure my dollars in fun. Whether it’s a KTM or a MTB it’s probably f*cking expensive now.
  • 2 1
 @Muscovir: I think you mean 11k bud.
  • 2 1
 @thechunderdownunder: KTM's website says 8k€...
  • 1 2
 You should buy the KTM then.
  • 9 1
 @nickfranko: Pinkbike, where we compare bike prices to houses, airplanes, dirt bikes, sport cars, and sheep....
  • 1 0
 @Muscovir: ahh. $11,000 USD Smile
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: you would get good air.
  • 4 0
 @salespunk: you’re absolutely bonkers for this one. My plane is at least three times as big as my bike it’s gotta cost more bro
  • 3 1
 The margin on these bikes must be huge. A motorbikr with more electronics, way more parts, more engeneering costs the Same and is assembled in Europe for example. But people still buy this stuff. In 2 years an E Bike will cost the Same as a 200hp Zero motorbike lmao
  • 1 1
 100hp Zero bike, pardon
  • 1 2
 @redrook: why? Because it hasn't pedals?
Grow up!
  • 4 0
 @gonpalco: Huh? No, because it's a motorcycle and therefore you're not allowed to use them off-road in many places.
  • 4 2
 @nickfranko: Nope. Fewer places "that an" MTB from my perspective (and likely that of the Swiss person I was speaking to also, where you are essentially limited to a handful of gravel roads in the Alps). Here in the UK motorcycles are limited to specific places, and in Scotland pretty much nowhere unless it's your own private land or you have specific permission. But if all you know is Texas I suppose you would be surprised about what other places are like Wink
  • 5 2
 @redrook: Can confirm, there is very little offroad in Switzerland. Took the adventure there and you've got places like Col de Tanay and that's about it, which is a gravel track. Forests are protected by federal law and it applies to all unpaved roads in forests, so you are truly f**ked if you get caught there, especially if you're foreign.

@nickfranko: what a surprise, an American not knowing about other places lol
  • 1 1
 @redrook: you can put a pedal kit on a SurOn
  • 123 6
 Yet another fugly e-....uhhh...hmm...dang it, this thing looks pretty good
  • 17 2
 yeah, no whining about that thing.
  • 11 4
 This is purty. If I had the $, it would be on my list for sure.
  • 175 64
 All these haters don't have 2.5 kids, a full time job, addiction to fine dining, Whiskey, Tequila or IPA's and have endless hours to get the miles in. One day life will catch up and they will get exactly 2 hours on a Saturday to ride and want to maximize that time on a bike. Enjoy your youth kids. It has its benefits.
  • 237 1
 what happened to the other half of your kid?
  • 105 116
flag jclnv (Jul 12, 2022 at 9:37) (Below Threshold)
 Nah, you're just lazy. Anyone can find time to stay fit.
  • 111 8
 @lowkeyokeydokey: he was a smartass like you. Wink
  • 122 11
 @jclnv: You know what's more expensive than a 14k ebike? A divorce.
  • 84 7
 Be an adult and get a divorce, then you’ll have a lot more free time.
  • 16 0
 @lowkeyokeydokey: how do you think he paid for the ebike.....
  • 27 3
 Maybe. I have those things...except the additional .5 kids and don't care much for fine dining. Luckily life offers many options. For some this might be the right choice based on what they are looking for out of their cycling recreation and where they live. It's not for me though. I have lots of friends with chronic knee issues that worsen as they age due to years of living in a ski town and the ebikes have been great to keep them rolling. So- not a hater, in the demographic you describe and not buying the "you need this when you get older" argument as I don't think it applies for all. Many may want it, others may need it to keep enjoying cycling, and some definitely still love the hell out of soul crushing unassisted climbs on the regular and well earned descents while still middle-aging the F out of all other domains in life and find the time to do so. Different strokes for different folks.
  • 35 6
 @jclnv: Not purely about fitness. I'll put in a ride of 5-600+m about once a week with shorter rides in between, plus hitting the gym etc and that is a lot more than a lot of people do, but I still can't even come close to the amount of mileage ebike riders can get in the same amount of time. I could put in another couple of hours of cardio a week and still I'd never get the amount of trail time in as I could with en bike. Fitness is cool, but I'm far more interested in covering more terrain and with kids and wives an life outside of bikes no chance I'm putting more time into fitness just to get a bit further on the trail, which is why ebikes appeal to me, along side regular bikes for different rides/terrain. I don't know why people have to be so dogmatic about it, especially in mountains. Anyone who has ever shuttled or taken a lift is doiing the exact same thing.
  • 16 10
 We just had our first kid and I feel this comment! Still getting out and riding a lot but the rides are shorter and an ebike is starting to sound pretty good.
  • 61 10
 Or we are 53 with 3 kids, a full time job, still like fine dining and have 2-3 hours a week to ride, and I still will never jump on an e-bike. If I have 2-3 hours a week to ride, I am going to get a workout doing it.
  • 2 2
 @lowkeyokeydokey: winning comment.
  • 10 0
 @lowkeyokeydokey: Harvested the kiddo's organs for a 14k e-bike
  • 31 4
 How exactly do you maximize your time on the bike when you just stated you have 2 hours. Does the 14k ebike warp the space time continuum?
  • 12 0
 @SoftSoilSampler: You know what's more expensive than a divorce? Getting one after she finds out you blew 14k on a bicycle lol
  • 3 0
 @lowkeyokeydokey: sold for organs to fund bikes
  • 22 6
 All I hear are excuses
  • 25 3
 @bbachmei: 5am rides. I put in more (non shuttle) miles than ever, even with 4 kids. You'll soon find all the other dads in the valley who do the same.

I have 4 kids, full time job, and a side gig. I still don't have an ebike, I just ride slowly on shorter trails haha.
  • 13 20
flag Sethimus (Jul 12, 2022 at 10:45) (Below Threshold)
 @Three6ty: you do realize that you can put in the same amount of work, but get a few runs more in the same time frame? same workout, more quality time
  • 16 7
 @jesse-effing-edwards: It's quality over quantity for me. I'd rather cover less distance on an analog bike. I like pure things. To use a car analogy I'd rather do 5 track days a year in a Caterham or Radical etc and drive a shitbox on the road than drive a M3 or something all year.
  • 15 13
 @jclnv: there's nothing pure about it, it's all technology. I mean a rigid single speed is kinda pure (been there done that, never going back), so calling people lazy cause they want to ride the same amount of time but in a different way is an uneccesary insult to me. I mean, there are definitely lazy people out there, but just cause someone rides an eBike doesn't make them lazy. I was more harsh towards ebikes before I moved to a mountainous area and now I put so much less distance on my bike even though I ride the same, due to the fact that big long climbs are just so much harder. I used to do 30km rides with 400+m of elevation all the time, now it's like 13km rides with more elevation and my fitness is better. I want those 30km rides back and I just don't have an extra 4 or so hours a week right now.
  • 17 1
 An e-bike doesn't maximize my time on a bike, though.
  • 14 1
 @jesse-effing-edwards: there is a difference between better brakes VS a freaking motor.
  • 14 4
 @Sethimus: not the same workout and definitely not more quality time.
  • 7 2
 Meh, I spent my money on a smart trainer. I work out in the basement a couple nights a week and can still hammer with the 22 year olds on race day.
  • 12 5
 @Three6ty: BS. the motor adds power to your own, if you hammer as hard as without a motor you are just faster up the hill.
  • 5 1
 Maximise it on a real bike?
  • 2 0
 @bbachmei: you just ride further in the same time for less effort?
  • 7 0
 @Corkster9: he is talking about maximizing enjoyment and the ability to get farther out on trails or more laps in per ride
  • 11 4
 @salespunk: pedalling up for an hour is pedalling up for an hour. Do you wanna go higher or not? That's really the question. I would never JUST have an eBike, but given the opportunity for a self-shuttling bike I would take full advantage of the extra power to ride further to get more downs cause that's the part I like the best. Otherwise I may as well get into Gravel riding. If I moved back to Ontario or lived somewhere flat I wouldn't care nearly as much but bigger climbs are very limiting.
  • 20 2
 D.I.N.K. dual income no kids. Its the way to all your toys my friends
  • 23 11
 @jclnv: If you think you don’t get a workout on an ebike, you’ve not ridden one.
  • 8 2
 @pargolf8: the key to a happy live ❤️
  • 6 11
flag jclnv (Jul 12, 2022 at 13:15) (Below Threshold)
 @jadias: Yep. The trails really get a workout too. Although I guess when you haven't got a lot of time to ride you haven't got time to dig either? You see there's just too many reasons not to ride one :-)
  • 1 0
 I'd use that for any trail/light-enduro, I ride xc/marathon 95% of the time, and don't mind climbing ~2k meters on a ride, but this could be the go-to weapon if I want to just focus on the downhill/bike-part fun stuff Smile
  • 6 1
 @jclnv: @jclnv: Do we have to set rider/bike system weight limits for trails now? A small person on the burliest ebike ever is still lighter than me just standing. So what is the weight cut off? Also, braking badly and poor line choice is what destroys the trails. The motor has nothing to do with those. Maybe we need to skill test everyone before they ride, and if they can't flow smoothly, they can't ride? Get real...
  • 9 0
 Shouldn’t have had the kids
  • 10 4
 @Three6ty: I thought the same…until I rode an ebike. Bought one a week later. Short rides that simply aren’t worth my time on my regular bike become worthy rides on an ebike. As an example there is a short but steep trail loop near where I live, in an hours time can do 1 or maybe 2 laps on regular bike. Not worth it. On the ebike I can do 4-5 laps in same about of time pedaling just as hard going uphill (just going faster). I suddenly found I have more time to ride now that I have an ebike, because those small blocks of time can be an enjoyable trail ride now. Didn’t replace my regular bike, but sure as heck compliments it. I just ride more now, and I don’t care if it’s ebike or regular, that’s not a bad thing.
  • 3 0
 @Betacygni: I have ridden an e-bike. Definitely not for me and for any time soon. Maybe when I turn 60 I will reconsider.
  • 2 3
 @Three6ty: thank you. When you hit 60 come on back and let us know what your decision was, mmk?
  • 4 1
 @pargolf8: im only a few years away so I will let you know
  • 10 17
flag darthsarge (Jul 12, 2022 at 17:31) (Below Threshold)
 I guess that's the difference between a mtb rider and an e biker. One's a lazy alcoholic who eats too much,the other goes for an hour ride most days after the kids are in bed and lives a healthy lifestyle. I know which one I'd prefer to be.
  • 10 2
 One day fine dining, Whiskey, Tequila and IPA's will catch up to you in the form of diabetes, hypertension and heart disease.
  • 4 2
 @darthsarge: lol! Google “cognitive dissonance”
  • 6 0
 Slowing down on the booze makes you faster. Especially when you reach those mid 40s with kids. Happier too in my experience.
  • 13 6
 Agree - suffering/climbing on the uphill is part of the whole experience. I believe in the road bike world they say harden the f*ck up.
If you can’t pay for your rewards might I suggest bowling?
@Three6ty:
  • 2 1
 @SprSonik: Nah, just motorized bikes that enable people to cover twice the distance.
  • 16 3
 @darthsarge: As a mid 40’s life long mtb’er that also has kids, works 24/7 shifts, sups, surfs, canoes, off road motorbikes, motorcycle tours, sails, helps at scouts, has gardening to do, etc etc, my ride time quality is utterly crap. Ask me what my main hobby is and I will say mtb. Ask me how much time I spend and it is about one ride a week maybe 3 hours max.
My ride fitness has hugely deteriorated in the last few years because thats life Im afraid. Im at the point where I actually dont enjoy riding as much. This type of bike is the exact sort of thing I would look at - perhaps a tad slacker on the ha for park duties. I would still call myself a mountainbiker. Something for which 30 years of riding the things qualifies me to do. Oh I also have long covid as well with decreased lung capacity. There is a life outside mountainbiking folks.
  • 2 0
 When i read stuff like this, i wonder who is exercising all the other sports disciplines that just offer no motor assist (yet).
  • 4 4
 @NWintheUSA: imagine a spandex clad, legs shaved roadie telling you to harden the F up. I cant keep a straight face just pondering it
  • 9 0
 @SprSonik: People riding trails is what 'destroys the trails'. The selling point people keep making for e-bikes is being able to do more descents in a given time. That extra riding will inevitably accelerate trail wear/erosion. On our local trails for example, someone on an e-bike will be able to do 3-4x the amount of runs. I've witnessed the majority of riders locally switch to e-bikes over the past 2 years, and also seen the increased level of erosion/wear/damage to trails as you'd expect through the increased use.

I'm not saying that in a judgemental way, but that's just the facts on the ground here. I don't have a problem with e-bikes (if I did, I'd only have about 2 people to ride with these days as everyone else locally is on an e-bike now), but you can't really talk about how much extra riding they allow you to do while trying to say that they don't lead to extra wear on trails.
  • 6 4
 @jesse-effing-edwards: I’ve never had someone on a shuttle or lift buzz up behind me on a single track climb and ask me to get out of their way so their motor can get them to the top faster. Don’t mind moving for a faster/fitter rider but find it pretty frustrating being asked to move for someone’s motor. If ebikes stayed off single track climbs or stuck to dedicated ebike climbs, I’d have no problem with them.
  • 2 0
 Set your priorities. Day has 24h for all
  • 2 0
 I like the early ones too. Sometimes I’m back before my kids are out of bed! @hamncheez:
  • 5 1
 @ilovedust: Wow you guys have so many excuses why you can't ride. I have all those excuses as well. I guess some of us are just more efficient at life so we find an extra hr most days to go for a ride. You can ride more but you choose to fluff around instead and that's fine but keep your excuses to yourself.
  • 2 2
 I'm not a fan of ebikes currently, but if I ever move to a place with serious elevation I'd be getting an ebike to maximize my free time as you said.
  • 2 1
 @CleanZine: can’t argue that point, but trails are meant to be ridden. Good mountain bikers (ebike or other) will ideally volunteer time and/or money for trail upkeep. I’ve been doing more trail maintenance personally with a motor to help me lug all that equipment into the far reaches of my trail systems. Hopefully others do as well.
  • 5 1
 I have one kid and im still on an analog bike. I love going out. I habe friends and fam and I love doing so much other stuff. Stop fucking promote an idea just because its like that for you. If you only get 2 hours a week for biking then buying an ebike wont help on anything because that 3 and 4th loop yall talk about wont happen. So chill
  • 2 0
 How does an ebike make better use of the time than a mtn bike?
  • 6 2
 @jclnv: Downvoted for saying "analog bike."
  • 2 5
 @skelldify: if you're asking me, I'd rather spend more time descending than ascending so that's why I say an ebike could be beneficial to me by say turning a 1 hour long climb into a 20 minute climb? Idk I've never ridden one but I'd def rent one if I go out to Denver area or something.
  • 2 4
 @11six: Yes, exactly. I don't understand why people are having such a hard time understanding this.
  • 4 3
 @bbachmei: I'm convinced people who hate ebikes don't live by mountains. If you live in an area where shuttling trails by truck is accepted practice, then an ebike is more than logical. You don't have to want one, but how a person can't see the benefit of gaining more elevation with the same effort is beyond me. If someone likes exercise so much, just go jogging, it's all effort all the time .
  • 6 2
 @jesse-effing-edwards: just as much as you think people who hate E-bikes miss the point, so does your comment.

People who hate e-bikes are not hating what opportunities and new riding options it creates, they hate the interface between e-bikes and bikes.

Its the e-bikers climbing like a bandit on a mainly downhill trail, its the e-biker screaming on your left at the hardest part of the climb, its NOT the e-biker shuttling up a road to make 3x the laps, its NOT the e-biker who understands trail direction and etiquette.
  • 6 2
 @pruss1: That's just a problem with a*sholes. I don't hate cars cause dumb ass teens have to rip down my street when my kids are walking to school.
  • 49 7
 I wonder why all the ebikes want to look like and sound like regular bikes and not underpowered e-motorcycles? Shame? Is it shame? It's shame. Isn't it?
  • 5 3
 Aesthetics sell. The only problem with e-bikes is that 99.99% of them will never be ridden to their full potential.
  • 9 1
 Get a bluetooth speaker and just play this while you ride! www.motosounds.com
  • 6 0
 @hamncheez: I’m more of a card in spokes guy.
  • 9 1
 @BenPea: As are 99.9% of all bikes on earth!
  • 7 0
 @Heidesandnorth: idk it doesn't take much to ride a walmart bike "to their full potential". I think out of the store parking lot will do it
  • 1 1
 @Heidesandnorth: that's a 10 times larger proportion!
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: that’s all bikes and everything made for every sport. Do you run a 4 minute mile in your air monarch’s?
  • 2 0
 @txcx166: I would if they cost 7 grand
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: haha. Good point.
  • 59 21
 In the old days bicycles didn't have motors.
  • 43 3
 in the old days the internet wasnt around so no one could track you down for your bike preference
  • 37 4
 In the even older days bicycles didn't have full suspension either.
  • 19 9
 @redrook: joke's on you, I ride a hardtail. It'll never catch on, all those inefficient pivots and bushings and bearings and linkages.
  • 11 15
flag Bro-LanDog (Jul 12, 2022 at 9:38) (Below Threshold)
 @redrook: suspension=/= adding literal watts to the bike. Nice try tho Smile
  • 16 1
 In the old days there were no bikes, and all trails were hiking or horse riding trails.
  • 6 0
 @Caiokv: you are bigfoot
  • 11 1
 @Bro-LanDog: Glad it's not figurative watts
  • 9 8
 @Bro-LanDog: What's your point? Suspension and motor power are different things sure, but they both affect how well/easily the bike does things. They are both means of assistance. Just because one is a motor and one is a different type of technology, doesn't change that.
  • 13 3
 @Bro-LanDog: Your comment =/= the gotcha you think it is.
  • 6 0
 @dsciulli19: You might be on to something Wink
  • 3 0
 @redrook: In the current days those bicycles are back as gravel bikes. Except, they're realizing the hard way why people in the old days hated having no suspension and so they are adding suspension to their gravel bikes.
  • 1 0
 In the old days 4wd didn't exist in cars. Blasphemy!
  • 2 0
 @dsciulli19: Jeez, be original - ditch the squishy fork! Too may seals an bushings!
  • 3 2
 26" for life right

right?
  • 6 2
 In the old days bikes had rim brakes, rigid seatposts, no droppers, absolute shit geometry, 580 bars with 120-150 stems. Ive been riding in the mountains since the early eighties and I wouldn’t ride bikes from the old days if I was paid. I personally don’t care what anyone rides as long as you have to pedal to make it go.
  • 1 0
 @Heidesandnorth: well he did say "full suspension"... But yeah my DJ is rigid and that's plenty for me
  • 39 2
 Looks like a sess..... GT?
  • 13 4
 fuck what it looks like WTF is low angle terrain
  • 20 2
 @Compositepro: Where people ride eBikes.
  • 7 0
 @jclnv: oh TFCTUFM so its a posecountry bike
  • 2 5
 @jclnv: Everywhere we want. There's a few areas we don't poach, but for us at least, it's just not enforced and sans a few gatekeeper types, most other riders/trail users don't care or are jealous. Enjoy the ride!
  • 47 14
 My 2-cents. I rode a Levo SL over the weekend and was honestly not that impressed with the ride quality. The battery got me through a 4hr day(mostly eco and trail mode, sometimes completely off), but the motor whine, the lack of instant engagement, having to be an 'e-mtb'r' surrounded by "analog" bikes, and the muted ride feel did not do it for me.

I'm glad I tried it because I was able to decide that e-MTB's were not for me... I'll take a few more minutes and calories burned on the climb in order to enjoy the descent so much more.

Anyways, I expect this offering from Trek is similar. It's trendy, and looks a lot better than their original E, but I'm sure still has the same 'ol problems as every ebike. I always was, but now more than ever firmly in the camp of "if it has a motor, it doesn't belong on human powered trails".
  • 12 60
flag BenPea (Jul 12, 2022 at 11:38) (Below Threshold)
 E-bikes are our trans people. Discuss.
  • 17 2
 @BenPea: Ebikes and ebikers are not comparable to trans people in the slightest... Ebikes are the bourgeoisie. More privilege, more power(literally), more money, more destructive.
  • 10 3
 @cgreaseman: yeah true, not comparable. Completely unrelated benpea. Greaseman is right, I'm in the same camp if it has a motor it shouldn't be on human powered trails. Someday I may try to get rid of my car and get an electric motorcycle or bike, but when I'm recreating on mtb trails I'll always be on a mountain bike. Maybe in 20 years I'll be the only one but I'll keep riding the same trails like I always have.
  • 3 25
flag BenPea (Jul 12, 2022 at 12:09) (Below Threshold)
 @cgreaseman: Isn't that what the likes of Fox are arguing about establishment trans "wokery"?
Ok, hear me out. Traditional bike trails are female toilets. Come on.
  • 4 3
 @cgreaseman I also demo’d a Levo SL this weekend and it was honestly the worst riding bike I’ve ever tried. I would rather ride anything else. It felt underpowered on the uphills and sketchy on the downhills from dated geo and sketchy tires. I have a “full power” ebike (look up the CHEEB) with good geo and longer travel and I absolutely love. Smashing out self shuttles faster than a car on gnarly trails or riding weird moto trails and blasting up tech climbs is what makes ebikes sick IMO and the levo sl didn’t do any of that well. I think these lightweight ebikes are a really strange compromise because they are kinda bad at everything.
  • 4 0
 @ericolsen: Glad to hear a rider much better than me did not get along with the SL, lol. Seconded on those points, the steeper the trail gets, the worse the Levo SL felt IMO. Riding-wise, I think I preferred pedaling the Orange bikes the demo was offering...
  • 9 1
 @ericolsen: Lol, I have a Levo and I think it's f*cking rad. The short chainstay makes it pretty much as nimble as a regular trail bike, while the extra mass give it really nice stability on chunky trails. And I can still get over logs and chunky east coast tech. The extra boost is nice for lapping some downhill trails or making flat trails more fun. But to each his own. The notion that it's a class thing, when most brands' mid-range mountain bikes are knocking up against $6-7k price point is silly. We all know who mountain bikers are and they're not the down and out proletariat, spare me.
  • 2 0
 That was was waaay more than 2 cents Sir
It was priceless Wink
  • 4 1
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: I just got a gen 3 levo. It is an amazing bike for sure. Did I overpay? Maybe. Did I also see road bikes in the bike shop that cost way more? Most definitely.
  • 22 2
 I don’t keep up to date with bike tech much these days, so excuse my ignorance, but doesn’t every bike have a ‘removable rear axle’?
  • 23 6
 Inching closer to every new MTB having a motor stuck in it, my friends group fully committing to EMTB, and the death of doing anything "by yourself" anymore. Can you really claim a climbing KOM or cleaning a tech section if you do it on an EMTB? Only against other people on the same machine.
  • 8 19
flag endoguru (Jul 12, 2022 at 16:30) (Below Threshold)
 This argument would also apply to descending. Can you really claim a KOM (if you care about such things) if you did it on a long travel full suspension bike with disc brakes and a dropper while some grumpy bastard thinks “real” biking is a done with a rigid singlespeed and that is a true KOM.
  • 19 5
 This is why I am waiting another year before I get an E Bike. This bike doesn't look like an ebike, and if its nearly silent... it doesn't sound like one either.
  • 25 12
 the sound of being heckled however from the p-nut gallery will be deafening
  • 13 35
flag trek (Jul 12, 2022 at 9:33) (Below Threshold)
 @Compositepro: Until you leave them in your literal dust
  • 21 5
 @trek: With 50nm, a tiny battery and a 25km/h speed limit you aint leavin no one in the dust.

Like, don't kid youself fam.
  • 4 1
 @Compositepro: There is no pleasing the comments... only stirring the pot more.
  • 14 7
 @trek: you will still get heckled at the parking lot
  • 3 1
 @dmackyaheard: my bro fistbump emoji did not work
  • 9 1
 @trek: Until they fork up $5k less for a 450 dirt bike and take the little whir whir bicycle to gapplebees
  • 4 1
 @ryanandrewrogers: unfortunately, dirt bikes can't go most mtb trails.
  • 3 5
 @Muscovir: you will be eating my dust on uphill amigo Big Grin
  • 5 0
 @dmackyaheard: unfortunately, e-bikes can only go to like half of them. even more unfortunately, e-bikes can't go to dirt bike trails or dirt bike tracks.
  • 1 0
 @nbram: I bought one instead of a car. Check mate.
  • 2 1
 @dmackyaheard: not with that attitude
  • 4 2
 @Compositepro: This place is more of a penis gallery…
  • 3 0
 @justanotherusername: I think you scrolled to the wrong tab, this isn't the webcam show chat.
  • 1 0
 @justanotherusername: awwww you’ve done it now
  • 16 4
 1nm/second = 1 W, so at best this will give you a 50W boost for 30 min? Did I read that right? Eco mode is "less"? like 10-20W boost? This is the first time I believe bike companies are trying hard to sell things most people dont want. I understand not being a competitive athlete and getting time to ride can be hard, thus putting in a little less effort on big climbs might help, but if the battery dies after 90 minutes in ECO mode you might be better off buying an indoor trainer and getting your FTP up. You will be healthier and your bike will cost less.

Before someone says "but what about the old and injured" yes, maybe this makes sense for specific circumstances, but if you don't want to put effort in and you are able bodied, why not just go for a full blown e-bike that can actually hang all day? I get jealous when people pass me on climbs with E-bikes. This bike has the potential for me to pass them when they run out of juice, that would be embarrassing.
  • 5 0
 So in short you telling me my hard efforts to lift my 60min power by 30watts is a success Smile no ebike required
  • 2 1
 This.
  • 6 2
 for reference a 160lb rider on a 40lb bike climbing a 5% grade at 6mph (which is pretty casual or "low angle riding") would require to have a total out put of 193W continuously. if the bike weighed 30lbs the needed power drops to 183W, or 10W difference due to weight. those differences go up with grade and speed obviously. So what does ECO mode get you?

Also, there is a walk assist feature... because you might need to walk an Ebike?
  • 4 0
 @stubestrong: yes!! again I get not everyone can do that, but raising your personal output by 30W is pretty substantial. plus, no need to drag a dead battery around and waste all of that physical fitness gain.
  • 4 2
 From Cam's comment when asked about range in the comments of the NSMB article:

"I rode several long rides in low settings and didn’t manage to get below 50%. These were 3-hr efforts with lots of climbing. I rode another loop with 1500 feet of steep climbing over 1.5 hrs on high and used about 60%. I was impressed by the battery life and haven’t yet exhausted the battery."

nsmb.com/articles/introducing-the-2023-trek-fuel-ex-e-99-xx1-axs/#c67533
  • 4 0
 How did you come up with "50W boost for 30min"? A 360 Watt-hour battery would provide 360 Watts of boost for 1 hour, no? Or 50W for 7.2 hours. Trek's quoted 5 hours on eco implies that eco adds 72W boost. For Matt's "longer than 90 minutes" rides where he drained the battery, he would have been averaging over 200W boost. Any electrical engineers in the building can confirm?
  • 2 4
 @islandforlife: It would appear PB and NSMB do not share the same experience with this bike. Since both were probably paid for the review it is worth questioning which one is accurate, or if either are accurate. If one assumes PB review is accurate and it is somehow supposed to promote the bike for sales, then it is hard to get behind.
  • 2 3
 @thartwig: Yes, someone should jump in here. Where some of the confusion is saying a batter is rated at 360Wh, but that is battery capacity not output of the system. Newtons laws of thermodynamics dictate no matter what you will never get a 100 percent efficient system. and in those terms any motor is far from 100% according the US government (so take that as you will) electric motors at best are 75% efficient converting electrical to mechanical energy, AT BEST. So even if you could get 360W of output your probably looking at 45min, not an hour. Oddly motors become less efficient at or under 50% max load, so its a curve, not a straight line to determine battery life and usage.

Where it would be good for someone with better knowledge to weigh in is around power calculation. 1Nm/sec = 1 W = 1 Joule. However that only works when talking about energy, which is not the same as applied force. RPMs come in to play here and because I dont do Ebikes I actually dont know how they are measuring force.If they are measuring force (torque) the same way a typical crank power meter is I dont know why we are talking about Nm to begin with since the standard is to convert that in to Watts. the short version is higher RPM more watts, but less applied force per revolution. so without knowing that info, its hard to say. if he was pushing 90 rpms up hill and got 50nm of torque thats crazy. if he was grinding up at 10 rpm its a lot less.
  • 6 0
 @dpars63: I don't believe either site gets paid for reviews. But if it comes down to a question of integrity and which may be hiding the truth on that matter... I'd rate NSMB much, much higher in that regard.
  • 7 1
 @dpars63 @thartwig. Lets sort this power calculation out. Lets start with 1Nm/sec is not 1W.

Work done (J) is equal to the torque multiplied by the angle rotated in radians (6.28 rad for one full revolution).
1Nm for one full revolution is 6.28 Joules.

Power is Work/time (J/s = W) so at 60 RPM (1 revolution per second) 1N/m is 6.28J/1s = 6.28W.

If max torque was delivered at 80rpm (no idea if this is true) the motor could in theory deliver roughly 420W which seem reasonable.
  • 2 0
 For what it's worth, we already know it's a 300W (peak) motor. says so on the spec sheet

For comparison, the Levo SL puts out 72W on eco, 144W on trail, and 240W on turbo
  • 2 3
 @dhridernz: thanks for the response. according to UC Davis physics dept 1Nm,/sec is 1W www.physics.uci.edu/~silverma/units.html. There are several calculators on line that use that equation. To be specific 1nm = 1 joule and 1Watt is the power of a Joule of energy per second. Now I know people are not laying down 300nm of torque, thats what a car does.

I guess I should have paid more attention in school. I get that force and torque are not quite the same thing. However (and this is not on you) this still doesn't help determine how much relative or perceived "power" you get from this application. 1) where is the torque / energy output being measured. a cog somewhere, but is it at the crank spindle? If not that's fundamentally different than traditional power meters and the comparison is not apples to apples. Also, the pedaling RPMs matter greatly here. Higher RPMs at the same wattage will equal less torque. Looking at various ebike motors online they all state the max torque but not the RPM they are achieved. I know this isnt true, but without a clear statement it could be as low as 1rpm.
  • 2 0
 Why not get a full power eMTB? The extra 10lbs.
  • 3 0
 @dpars63:

Small correction on the page you have linked. 1 Joule is equal to one Newton acting over (through) one linear meter. E.g. if it takes 1 Newtown to push a block for 1 meter I have expended 1 joule in work.

Yes, I expect most ebike motors are hitting max torque at relatively low RPM. That is typically how electric motors perform.

Perception of power is a weird thing that I don't think we are very good at perceiving.

Torque on an ebike motor is measured at the crank so it should align with a crank/pedal based power meter. In theory (other than some drivetrain efficiency losses) it doesn't matter where you measure power - gearing changes torque not total power.
  • 1 0
 @JackSB: that’s what I’m thinking, want my son to use a ebike so he can ride with me but I can then use as a extra option racing ebike onside of normal enduros. But battery range climbing 800m max is to low need 1200-1500m so Rail a better option. Initial thoughts ExE should have fitted a 525.
  • 1 0
 This gives an idea :
www.emtbforums.com/community/attachments/powers-jpg.1356

Otherwise just crunch the numbers with what @dhridernz wrote, you'll get an idea of power outputs and torques at different rpm.

About comparing car torques and biking torque, the difference is not as huge.
An estimation is easy to get if we assume horizontal crank arm that you press with 100kg at the pedal (possible at low rpm) that's 981N applied at 0,175m so 172Nm.
  • 13 0
 Probably the best upgrade is the small Trek logo.
  • 2 0
 was just about to say, even the logo now shuts up Smile
  • 12 2
 I love how everyone hates all the ebike coverage yet the ebike articles get the most traffic....... it's like media is a business or something and all the haters are actually feeding it.
  • 4 0
 Its like that Alanis Morisette song... Isn't it Ironic?
  • 1 0
 @ischiller: Great reference
  • 12 4
 Orbea Rise H (alloy) is such a good value when looking at a lower weight ebike! Has 540wh battery + 252wh extender = 792wh total. Built mine with alloy dt swiss 1501 hx wheels, xt drivetrain, inserts, 4 piston brakes, weighs in 45lbs. And then price is half of some of these treks and specialized! -- all this talk of a motor rattle, is just talk, I have never heard of anything.
  • 10 0
 "it shouldn’t be jumped blindly over rises into piles of rocks"

...yeah man, you know... after spending 14k nobody will...
  • 11 0
 does this mean we can expect the regular ex to get an update to 140/150?
  • 9 2
 Bike companies are investing heavily in ebikes, I think a lot of these buyouts we're seeing are related to that.

But as the world tips toward a global recession , energy & fuel prices rocket. £14k ******** bicycles with a high failure rate motor , & short lifespan battery that will be obsolete in a few years, hence with a low resale value, maybe aren't the golden goose these corporations think they are.

I wonder if a lot of bike companies might be over reaching and setting themselves up for a fall
  • 11 0
 Save the manuals
  • 3 0
 Is this is a brilliant double-meaning related to both the length of the chainstays and the likely amount of paperwork?
  • 8 1
 What is the advantage of the stem bar combo thing? It saves a few grams, but severely limits adjustment. I am a hard pass on that.
  • 3 2
 Or it just eliminates the possibilities to fuck up the setup
  • 2 0
 The spec decisions are atrocious. GX AXS and carbon cranks, but then Code R's. And the bar. I want to buy one, but I can't find a build where I wouldn't want to replace a lot or just has too much silliness (e.g., XX1)
  • 14 8
 Gotta love the Ebike hate on PB, They are all dead against it but they are always in here, reading reviews and commenting, making sure their internet cookies get filled with Ebike related stuff. good stuff.
  • 7 0
 "Moving through low-angle terrain is where the Fuel EX-e excels"

So it works best on terrain that doesn't require a motor to get you up it?
  • 8 0
 So uhh.... there is a new NON e-bike Fuel EX coming soon... right? RIGHT?!
  • 6 2
 I'm afraid to say I don't really get the point of this one for most people? The target market where this thing makes a lot of sense that I foresee is as follows:

1. someone who rides alone 95% of the time and wants a bit more boost, but for some reason doesn't want a full power Eeb.
2. someone who's married to someone like Henrique Avancini or Jolanda Neff or something but is a decent normal rider and wants to hang out with them occasionally.
3. like the above except you're old/have no legs below the knee/something else and just need a little bit more to keep up with your homies on regular bikes.

Otherwise, I don't get the point. "Full power" Eebs are a ton of fun to ride with friends, even moreso on trails that you wouldn't normally pedal. Getting to the top of a huge climb, going up stuff that is otherwise impossible on a regular bike, exploring places you wouldn't go on a core bike, enjoying a beverage, and laughing at each other when you mess up a stupidly steep section is the fun in ebikes. That's the fun of an Eeb for an otherwise "core" rider.

This thing sits in a middle ground where it's not exactly for one or another. You can't ride with your ebike buddies to have ebike related stupid smiles, and your regular friends will hate you unless you're one of the above situations.

Is this the future of bikes? Maybe. But I'm not sure. Sometimes goldilocks isn't right. I prefer to be on either end of the spectrum.
  • 8 2
 In marketing-speak: Something, something goldilocks...

No, for real though. Your error is that you're trying to make sense of the situation from a core mountainbikers' point of view. Realistically, 95% these bikes will end up in middle-aged couples' garages who will take them out maybe twice a year to ride to the ice cream parlor and back. The actual target group of customers for this product will be absolutely fine with its performance.
  • 11 2
 @Muscovir: "Realistically, 95% these bikes will end up in middle-aged couples' garages who will take them out maybe twice a year to ride to the ice cream parlor and back. The actual target group of customers for this product will be absolutely fine with its performance."

I've seen this sale hundreds of times (I worked at a retail Trek location for most of covid): It's "normal" full powered ebikes for this at the moment. Know what drives those sales? Neighbors and friends, a lot of the time. And right now, they're on full powered ebikes, whether they're EMTB or commuter style - people just get what their group/friends have. And right now, that customer and all their peers have full power ebikes. You might be right, but I think that's a harder market for bikes like the Fuel Ex-E to penetrate when it's already dominated by full power e-bikes. They won't want less power than their buddies.

One I remember in particular. A middle age guy, not at all core rider came in, and our conversation went something like this:

"hey do you guys have the Trek Rail?"
"Yeah, we have a couple still and more on the way. Let's go look at them. We've got a couple Rail 7s and a couple 9.8s at the moment"
"Oh yeah, that's a cool bike, what side do you think I am, XL?"
"Yeah, XL"
"Hey, you know Jerry Smith?"
"Oh yeah, he's in all the time"
"He's my buddy, I'm gunna ride with him. What model did he get"
"The 9.7"
"Ok, I'll have to get the 9.8 then. Here's $12,000"

This conversation wasn't entirely unique (although it was paraphrased heavily). I can't see the guy I was talking to pick up the Ex-E until someone else does. It'll happen over time, sure, but it may be hard while the demographic you're speaking of remains on full power Eebs.
  • 2 0
 That's the problem with all non-FF eBikes - you are sorta stuck riding a similar bike to what the crew you ride with already have unless everyone wants to swap to a lighter non-FF eBike, which can be a hard proposition. This bike and bikes like the Specialized SLs make sense for someone who rides alone mostly or with a group of friends that also have SLs and want just enough motor to make it back up to the top of the hill to do another DH run, but not enough motor that the bike becomes a boat.
  • 3 1
 @j-t-g: Hah! I never knew there was a parallel universe Marin County in Canada!
  • 4 1
 OK. Core bike is way better than acoustic or analog
  • 3 0
 @EricHarger: Luckily we don't have the same land access issues, even if some of the attitudes stay the same! I feel real bad whenever I see Marin County trail access articles pop up here and there. It's hard on the street for a pimp down there.
  • 4 0
 @Muscovir: Pretty sure I am the target buyer for this. I've been riding since I was a kid in the 70s, dabble in Enduro racing, ride 4x a week, have zero issue with putting in miles and love to play hard on aggressive terrain, but want something that is light and agile but with enough power to take the edge off on longer days in the saddle, or maybe that 5th ride in a week. Also GREAT for recovery rides post-injury, or scouting new terrain where you have no clue what to expect and want that extra security of knowing you can still make it back to civilization. 55lb tanks are garbage for that...but this is perfect.
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g: I'll take an 11.0!
  • 7 4
 This is a solid step toward integration of the system, which is currently (aside from Specialized) pretty lacking in the ebike market. The EP8 still doesn’t hold a candle to the specialized motor from 3 years ago. Now it’s just time to stop with the silly half-powered bikes and go full bore with more travel and a battery that can actually put you through big rides. I’ve got a Bullit (170mm f+r) and love it for smashing dh laps with no shuttle, but the shimano rattle sure is annoying.
  • 6 1
 I just sold my first gen YT Decoy and picked up the new Gen 3 Levo and I have to say, it's possibly the best full power EMBT I have ridden to date. The amount of geo adjustment makes it like a Swiss Army knife and the electronics integration is leap years ahead of everything else as well.
  • 2 0
 just wait till the new shimano Di2 is available (probably Q2 202Cool , it all runs off the ebike battery for seamless integration.
  • 3 0
 I may be wrong but I was pretty sure I read somewhere you can't fly with an ebike - the lithium batteries are banned by most airlines. That would rule me out (not that I've been able to holiday for a while with Covid and crazy increases to cost of living).
Has anything been sorted on this front? Battery rental seems the only real solution but I've no doubt that the batteries for different systems are proprietary?
  • 1 0
 The bike can be ridden with only the range extender attached. And as it’s 160wh you can fly with it too. Battery rental at big destinations is the ideal situation though at $1999AUD for a spare battery it’s not a cheap exercise for shops to have a rental range.
  • 7 4
 Buying an e-bike at this point in time is like buying an electric car at this point in time...you just have to go into it knowing that in the near future they'll be much better than what you bought because they're still in development.
  • 5 0
 facts, its hard to not be greedy and always want more when you already have enough. i despair for this planet
  • 3 0
 You could say that for all mountain bikes. Look at bikes 5 years ago to today.
  • 2 0
 @JNZ: Nah. Bikes in 2017 were already pretty damn good. Model year 2018 had some cool bikes. Last-gen YT Capra, Scott Ransom, Transition Sentinel, Nukeproof Mega, etc. You could easily argue that bikes didn’t get much better since then.
  • 5 0
 Being diagnosed at onset of arthritis in knee. Very happy for eMTB tech to evolve and will be there for myself and others to keep riding. Psyched, thanks Trek and others.
  • 1 0
 get a bike fit!
  • 1 0
 @ridingofthebikes: sure, its not a new thing from bike. Just 20yrs of wear and tear from rock climbing, hiking and some 5yrs of mtb; just one of those that are coming up in my 40s Smile
  • 3 0
 No-one else excited about the harmonic drive on it vs a conventional motor? Getting a 30% reduciton in motor weight is massive on an eMTB, that's the way forward. Cool tech too, be interested to see how it holds up long term though, cleanliness is VERY important with those drives.

Someone above said buying an ebike now will be a foolish endeavour, they are about to get lighter big time. This, dare I say it, with a slightly bigger battery is (in my opinion) going to become the way forward for many people me included. I see it as inevitable I'll get one in the coming years. When 2 young kids want to go riding but can't keep up with me or have the endurance I'll get an eMTB and a pair of Towhees and haul their heavy backsides up the hill for a few more laps when their energy is gone, no way could I do that on my old fashioned pedal bike.

However I am massivley put off by the sheer weight of these things, a mate has just got a Kenevo SL and says it has most of the benefits of an e-bike but sitll virtually handling like a trail bike. Count me in, but maybe when the're not a million pounds (I'm aware of the lower spec ones but I don't like lower spec, I want at least XT level shininess).
  • 1 1
 That little tiny motor will fry towing people with it
  • 1 0
 @vanillarice19: Why? I'm 75kg, my eldest is probably 20kg ish, pardon my maths but that makes 95kg, total, how is that different from a 95kg person riding the ebike itself (ignoring a few kgs of his bike)? Also he will be pedaling so will more than cancel out any extra weight of his bike and resistance of tyres.

On the acoustic I can pedal up a particularly steep hill near me on my own fine. I can pull him up the same hill with a Towhee and it's harder work, but that's kind of the exact point of an ebike, to make a harder work job easier so you can go further... Besides I'm not talking pulling them up the north face of the Eiger, long windy fire roads their legs don't have the miles for.
  • 1 2
 you're going to pull people uphill so they can bike down with no energy? that sounds smart. riding downhill with no energy is very successful and smart! reach for another excuse for an eeb.
  • 1 0
 @ridingofthebikes: Oh do Foxtrot Oscar. I don't know many 6 year olds who can do several laps at trail centres with fireroad climbs that wind on for a couple of miles. If facilitating another way to get my lad to the top of some decent trails is "an excuse for an eeb" then so be it.

Back to your cave, troll.
  • 9 4
 Shame it's quiet. I like a noisy eeb. Let's the poor people know to get their snail bikes out of my way.
  • 7 4
 e-bikers, dont argue with the acoustic bike bros! They have way too much time on their hands climbing to think up stoopid semantic arguments as to why it is lame/sad/not_cool/a_dirt_bike/not_a_mtb/etc/etc........
  • 1 0
 its called enjoying riding a bike. we have to much time enjoying our bicycles.
  • 1 0
 @ridingofthebikes: that we do!
  • 2 0
 @mattbeer - any unscientific comment on how much extra riding this bike would have got you? Either extra distance or extra descents vs what you might have done with a regular trail bike with lower weight and no motor resistance?
  • 1 0
 @mattb33r It sounds like the battery drains way too quick despite the similar capacity to the Rise and Levo. I don't remember reading about the Rise or Levo batteries being done after 90 minutes. Am I missing something here?
  • 1 0
 1100 vertical meters here youtu.be/iMe1AfCZTRs (english cc)
  • 2 0
 300 W motor with 360 Wh battery. The math checks out. He probably took it on some steep stuff and drained it quickly.
  • 4 0
 @Chippps There are so many variables to factor in here that it can be tough to compare the ride times let alone the bikes themselves unless they were in laboratory settings with control tires and surfaces. Driving a lower cadence, climbing steeper grades, or even wet gravel roads can affect the range.

As for a lightweight e-MTB Field Test where we compare them side by side, that's tricky. There aren't quite as many of these bikes on the market, so orchestrating the timing when they are all relatively current would be tough, but that's certainly on our radar.
  • 3 0
 It is time all eBike reviews start including some sound comparisons videos, even if they are crude "point the mobile phone at the motor while doing a steep road climb".
  • 6 0
 @fgiraffe I've updated the article with an audio clip under the motor details section.
  • 1 0
 @mattbeer: Awesome thanks. Sounds more quiet at 100RPM than the Spec I rented was at low RPM.
  • 1 0
 @fgiraffe: you want your electric powered bicycle to be silent? just ride a bike bud.
  • 3 0
 To me this is the first ebike that doesn't look like an ebike. Just looking at it in the first picture you wonder where the motor is... Well done Trek.
  • 1 0
 I am gonna admit I like this bike. Especially the concept. The curved top tube looks a little old fashioned, but otherwise it looks pleasingly not distorted or "pregnant"

I'm gonna hold out for similar idea with removeable motor and battery. That would seem truly ideal.

Also more adjustability for fit, head angle, chainstay length and of course more power and less weight...

If computers and phones are any indication, these things will get better and cheaper quite quickly.

(Checks cost of new phones...okay better, maybe not cheaper)
  • 2 1
 This looks awesome. The lightweight trail bike space is one I'm watching super closely; I'd been looking hard at the Orbea Rise but now it might be in second place. I'm kind of amazed at all of the negative comments and claims that there aren't really use cases for this. For me, this would help me keep up with all the faster riders I usually don't ride with, and for solo rides this would easily double the distance I can cover for the same amount of effort. Both feel like huge wins to me.
  • 1 0
 $14k unfortunately is a lot of money for me to spend on a bike, I’m sure I would enjoy riding it.
  • 1 0
 Rise can be hacked to get 85nm from the motor if you wish.
  • 5 1
 When it runs out of battery the display should say ‘Error Fuel.exe not found’
  • 1 0
 Good one, you need to grow up in the 80's or 90's to get this one.
  • 3 2
 I am happy ebikes are taking the lightweight direction. I think e-bikes starting out as full powered, zero effort machines that just rip up trails and annoy analog climbers was a bad start but ebikes that have less power and have much less of an overall footprint is much better. good job to all the companies making attempts to please more people
  • 1 0
 Power = torque x rpm...with only 50nm of torque that is lower than most e bike motors already, combine that with the low rpm this thing probably puts out half the power of other e bike motors on the market... and $14000???? Rofl
  • 1 0
 I dont understand this statement (below), can some explain. Is he saying that you shouldnt deplete the battery fully ever if you want to retain 100% power or that this should be done at the factory and if so why?

'The first time you deplete the battery, which is bound to happen when you’re 8km away and the rain is coming down in sheets, you may lose power at up to 15%. If there’s one thing that Trek and TQ missed with the Fuel EX-e, it would be running the battery through this cycle before it leaves the factory to avoid a customer’s first ride experience, but maybe I’m just jaded.'
  • 2 0
 Dear Pinkbike, an explanation of the effect of torque, power, watts would be very much appreciated. Not something I thought I would ever write on a mtb website but times change hey Thanks
  • 1 0
 The technology looks interesting but isn't a carbon Fuel the sort of trail bike that you could ride easily all day, this e version seems to have made the platform less capable by making it heavier and based on this review the battery life is only a few hours. I look forward to seeing this technology in the Slash would also love to see an update to the Remedy soon too.
  • 2 0
 I used to do 1,300 miles a year on an Altitude 750 and then a Bronson CC X01. then i got old.... now i ride a Fully with Ep8,726wh, Fox 36 Factory Grip2, Topaz 2..... and ride 4500 kilometers a year.
  • 1 0
 Can you see the scheme? They made us all comfortable with burly bottom bracket areas. And told us it's because it's stiffer. Then they made us believe that weight does not matter. And we believed it. The plan worked, because we now think the light ebike is a MTB, but better. Can you see it?
  • 1 0
 I have the Rise and have to say it's the perfect second bike. Why does everyone get so butt hurt when it comes to someone choosing to have a second bike in the form of either a light weight ebike or full fat? If it gets me on the the trail a few more times a week then so be it, I'm not out there to either piss you off or impress you, rather just leave me alone to destress. In the winter, it's truly a time thing. If I have 45 to 1 hour then I can bang out a ride on the Rise vs. choosing not to ride the Yeti. I honestly love both, and let's just be cool about it. Now having the speaker blaring out some tunes is another issue. LOL.
  • 1 0
 It is a good solution to have it light AND have the battery as a water bottle. The reason is that you can just remove the battery if you really want to use it as a regular bike.

Ebikes are legit. I'm not lazy or unfit and was riding 3 to 5 days a week putting down a lot of mileage/elevation for a decade, before I got an overuse knee injury a couple of years ago. My riding output has decreased nearly to about 50%. Just got an ebike and just using it in the lowest eco-mode. After rides, my knee does not hurt. Ebikes surprisingly ride better than I thought given its heavy weight.

I think this Trek Fuel Ex-e is the direction I think the bike industry should go. They should at least have a category for light ebikes for riders that don't need a lot of assistance.
  • 1 0
 Wah, wah. My Rise IS a MTB. a0A sizeable chunk of you mountain bikers just cruise on up (on your analog bikes) and like to do challenging DH. There's a segment of mountain bikers that enjoy the uphill as much as the downhill. With my Rise, 95% of the time I ride with the power on but NO assist from the motor just so I can take advantage of the stats from the EP8 motor.

So I'm actually working harder than most of you because I'm pushing other 10 lb up the hill. But since I have a heart condition, if I ever get in trouble I can actually get home without dropping dead. Not only am I not cheating but I'm actually working harder than most of you, so quit whining about people who ride "e-bikes". We all have our reasons.
  • 4 0
 These look like GT Sensor/Forces
  • 2 1
 FWIW, all the builds from XT up all have carbon rims. It would be nice if they had alloys with an optional upcharge for carbon. If I was going to grab a 40+lb e-bike, carbon rims would be the last thing I'd want.
  • 5 1
 Carbon hoops honestly makes more sense on e-bikes. These are heavy and thick carbon rims that have much more strength than traditional alloy. If you wanted a comparable alloy rim, you'd be looking at hundreds of grams more material.
  • 2 0
 I think Trek has done an amazing job with the styling..... Bike looks amazing and 50Nm of quite power is enticing. Would really like to get my hands on one for a test ride.
  • 2 2
 This bike looks amazing! I implore everyone to save up and get on board. The constant intensive flow state provided by these evolved motor assisted bikes is available to you. Jumping on these machines and enjoying every part of every ride while getting a great workout is mind blowing to this 34 year long mountain bike rider. Smile
  • 3 0
 I'm ashamed that I actually like an E-bike... even more ashamed its a Trek. Bravo Trek, gorgeous bike!
  • 1 1
 This E-Trek sounds like a good time to me. I'm impressed it held up to the wet coast weather. I've juiced up 1800kms since Jan and every pivot and bearing has been thoroughly rinsed with golden grit. Oh well, as Eazy E said "O brother
I throw it in the gutter and go but another"
  • 1 0
 Beautiful looking bike! Love the color too. I love when manufacturers don't rush to be the first to the market with something, but when they do bring something out, it's polished and thought through. Great job Trek!!
  • 3 0
 Normal bikes and E-bikes. Mountain bike and mountain e-bike. road bike and road e-bike. acoustic is for sounds, not bikes.
  • 1 0
 Would be worth getting if they could adapt two 160w batteries to connect together in downtube as you can take two 160w batteries on an airplane. One in bottle holder won't get you far up the Greek mountains
  • 5 1
 Looks like a GT
  • 11 7
 No motor - no noise
  • 10 0
 Not if I bled the brakes myself Frown
  • 1 0
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRJ0hO-s6M at teast they will make good coffee grinders when they start piling up at the trek dealers
  • 1 0
 so umm, that link is now cracked intentionally in the factory? what's the point there? some issue with carbon that other manufacturers solve by making the links from alloy?
  • 3 1
 Overall a great effort IMO. Apart from the single length RC, the geo and sizing is spot on.
  • 2 0
 Was thinking 'who the heck needs an e-bike for trail riding', then I remembered my wife could really use one.
  • 1 0
 Looks like both the water bottle and the extra battery end up touching the top tube (i.e., they don't actually fit properly).
  • 1 0
 @barp As mentioned, this isn't the stock Bontrager Side Load Cage that the extender was designed around, so the fitment will vary slightly.for aftermarket cages.
  • 1 0
 @mattbeer: Fair point. I only skimmed the text and must have missed that bit. Nice little margin booster, that caveat--I used to work at a Trek dealer and remember the wholesale cost on those cages.
  • 2 0
 My stump jumper carbon evo has a bigger downtub than that and its not electric !!!
  • 3 0
 but it breaks alot easier.
  • 3 1
 E-bike selection = Go big or go home. If you're gonna e-bike, what does weight matter anyway? Full size please.
  • 3 0
 Full size handles like a tank on the descents. I've ridden a full-fat Levo, and frankly it's way overpowered for climbing and sucks for descending. A bike like this would be enough assist on the climbs and supposedly feels like a normal bike when going down, which is what most anyone would prefer.
  • 2 0
 @zedpm: although I agree with go big or go home I did own a 47 pound downhill bike for awhile and it was a handful descending.
  • 1 0
 What about the iLynx range from BH ? 60Nm and 520Wh of battery and under 18kg. And it goes up to 700Wh with their additional battery. And it's quite cheaper !
  • 4 2
 a bunch of wankers go ride your bike(whatever it is ) and mind your own business .no cares what you think
  • 1 0
 Anyone ride a Forestal yet? I wonder how the trail bike compares to this lightweight Trek. It’s curious that PB has yet to review one.
  • 2 0
 a motor that includes a transmission makes alot of sense and must be right around the corner
  • 1 0
 Just rode it: got left in the dust by the "full-on-boosted-e-bikes" on the climbs and All the e-integrated-components made my analog heart cry
  • 1 0
 Deets on the mullet/MX setup? Is just in the flip-chip in the HI position? Based on my math that's 326mm BB height, which seems too low IMO.
  • 1 0
 Wow, I can’t believe their logo doesn’t take up the ENTIRE downtube. Good on ya Trek. Hope that will trickle down to their other bikes, lol.
  • 2 0
 Which is more incredible; 40 lbs or $14K?
  • 3 1
 Maybe it's just me, but the Trek logo is almost too simplistic.
  • 3 0
 14k
  • 4 0
 Also $6.5K. Not cheap but still.
  • 3 0
 How does it jump?
  • 1 0
 Is the battery/motor removable and can it be pedalled without them like on the Lapierre EZesty?
  • 3 3
 They are removable, but the battery is what you would want to remove if you're looking to pedal without the motor's assistance.
  • 1 0
 @trek: Gotcha, and that would be possible on this? I'm assuming the motor is very low resistance then?
  • 4 1
 Looks like a session.
  • 2 0
 And there it is
  • 2 0
 @You2 - I think you mean sEssion.
  • 1 0
 I liked it up untill the point it didn't tick the box for headset routed cables.
  • 3 0
 Trek made a Devinci!
  • 5 7
 seeing all these old fart purists just being jealous cuz they cannot afford this amazing bike ( neither can I ahahahah Big Grin ) is why I went straight to the comment section. I love seeing where the industry is moving, in 25 years when I am ready for eMTB they will be awesome Big Grin
  • 1 0
 Silent is pretty attractive. Bikes with Shimano drive in particular, are very annoying to be around.
  • 2 0
 Straight up, this is a phenomenal design. Well done Trek.
  • 3 1
 Eh, Trek logo is not big enough.
  • 1 0
 Beer is 170 lbs and runs 120 PSI in the Lyrik. Can't imagine running those numbers at 200 lbs :-)
  • 1 0
 What are the chances that Trek puts a more powerful version of this motor in the next Rail?
  • 3 1
 Now that's an e-bike I could get on board with!
  • 1 0
 If it rides as well as the '22 Top Fuel its probly really good. I demo'd a top fuel recently and it is a sweet bike.
  • 2 0
 Someone make a .exe joke already
  • 1 0
 Looks nice for an e-bike but it's a shame they haven't updated the regular Fuel EX.
  • 2 1
 Rad, I'd definitely be keen to ride it, no faux E bike hate here, it's a bike, I like bikes.
  • 1 0
 So to get it to work Matt put 120 psi in the fork. That can’t be right. That world make it nearly rigid
  • 3 2
 The being married and having kids excuse is just that a tired overused excuse.
  • 1 0
 Why does it need to be light if it has a motor would be too heavy for marshmallows to load and transport?
  • 1 0
 CONS: "Using Boost mode to keep up with full-powered e-bikes won't get you that far"

Awesome.
  • 1 0
 Most people can not ride up climbs at World cup XC pace, but they can on an e-bike?
  • 1 0
 Does it still get flat tires? Cuz I need a bike that doesn't get flat tires.
  • 1 0
 "The sound of the shifting is a good indicator or how discrete the motor really is"

LOL
  • 2 1
 140mm rear 150mm front... it's now just the old Remedy
  • 11 14
 Pretty decent at 50nm. The 30 or so from the specialized sl range is just not enough, plus they make a horrific whine (like emtb haters).
As for costs, well I'm an adult with a decent job and eMTB is my hobby, so cost isn't really a factor.
  • 1 0
 ABP has been around since 2008, not 2011
  • 1 0
 Why do 'trail' bikes need 150/140 travel for 'low angle terrain'?
  • 3 2
 do these even need pedals at this point? should we call them "Pegals"?
  • 1 0
 ok, matt. where is the huck to flat?
  • 1 0
 Looks like a pregnant session?
  • 1 2
 $14k USD, may I suggest a new recreational activity: Longboarding.

A really nice , new longboard can be had for $275.00 CDN.
  • 2 0
 Looks Like a GT FORCE
  • 1 0
 Looks like a 2019 Devinci Spartan
  • 1 0
 Hunchback toptube though Frown
  • 1 0
 Oo Ooww,, you hiding a machine bruh.
  • 1 0
 Maybe next time they shouldn't reveal the name before launch so easily.
  • 1 0
 How about the electric HD LiveWire?
  • 1 0
 IN CANADIAN CASH THAT is like 20K.... for a bicycle
  • 4 4
 So now you need electrician to fix your bike, not mechanics anymore...
  • 2 1
 No, you need to learn to work on your own bikes, half the shop mechanics are gormless teens with minimal training , stripped thread? Coming right up.
  • 1 0
 @watchtower: I’m pretty sure the warranty is voided if you tamper with the motor or controller. Bosch in particular will brick your motor if you try to fix/modify.
  • 1 0
 Hmm. Interesting....
  • 11 11
 Funny how they're trying to make motorbikes look more like bicycles
  • 1 2
 Dear Cannondale - stop attending YT design dinner parties and instead head over to the Specialized BBQ.
  • 3 2
 The future
  • 1 0
 Split Pivot.
  • 1 1
 i hate ebikes, but this is a win.
  • 1 3
 $13,999......hahahahahahaha!!

i can buy a Ducati for the same money.....in fact there is a Panigale at my local dealer for a grand less
  • 1 0
 cascade components Wink
  • 1 0
 WHO CARES!Smile
  • 1 0
 trek.exe
  • 1 0
 Caltrans colorway eh
  • 7 7
 Slash-e pleas-e
  • 1 0
 Trek Rail with a 170mm fork and a 230x60 stroke shock for 160mm rear travel. Job done
  • 1 2
 is over complicated frame design and way too many tubes a thing again?
  • 2 4
 Does the 14k version ride for you? Can get a 1000cc motorbike for less... hell there's cars cheaper than that!
  • 1 4
 I watched 2 ebikes descend off the trail past horses going uphill into the wilderness yesterday. This is going to be a dumpster fire.
  • 5 7
 Silent? Maybe.

Pretty? Well, no.
  • 3 3
 ze german's shouldn't talk about pretty stuff :-))) c'mon you guys hire italians to design your cars.
  • 2 0
 @amirazemi: That’s why we buy Volvos and Commencal bikes…
  • 6 8
 This is the way.
  • 2 0
 This is A way. Wink
  • 1 0
 ..There is No Way
  • 1 0
 So way, went away?@threesixtykickflip:
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