First Look: Carbon Gravity Gradient Components

 These cranks may have been weighed with the bash and chainring, and maybe the others didn't? I don't know.. Haha

 Chech the RaceFace news, the Respond DH is 200g lighter with the BB plus the ring. No bashguard. Even if they measure the Gravity with the bashguard, the difference should have been smaller...

 I doubt FSA would be weighing their carbon cranks with a bashgaurd fitted without stating that it was fitted, seeing as weight is their major selling point.

 Agh maybe, I only suggested it because it's pictured with it.

 here's my take on it. they probably aren't making them out of composite material as much for weight as they are for strength. gt has been making there dh sleds for the last couple years out of carbon fiber for this same reason, i read an article on it in DECLINE i believe. they said it has much more benefits in the strength compartment, and now santa cruz has that video out showing how much stronger there composite bike is over there aluminum bike, just wild when u think its just some woven fabric and some epoxy. bikes are plenty light right now, glad to see the industry is trying to beef stuff up at reasonable weights.

 And just think about it - would you be able to shit the f*ck up out of a carbon RaceFace Respond DH cranks (excuse the language)? My guess is NO. They are as tuff as you need them to be. But they are 200g lighter... and in a personal opinion - prettier! They've got all of what it takes to outgun the Gravity sets just like that!

 never heard of a visual prototype then?

 Of course. To me it always begs the question if the sticker's there as a theft deterrent, or a danger warning... It also gives reason that they might look different when they go to production, and if it's even worth showing them off to the public before so.

 fair point

 That happened to someone I know too.. strange!

 damn that sucks, was he riding the DH specific XO crankset?

 BOOM! just from that, this guy will NOT have carbon cranks anytime soon.. thats messed up

 Thats scary, I know someone who snapped the whole arm off because it pinged a rock.

 ouch!

 I had a similar thing happen with my XT cranks. They were 3 years old but they snapped right in half when I was JRA. I'm REALLY happy it happened when I was JRA.

 XT cranks are built for XC. even if you were just JRA, fatigue might've set in and its bound to brake if you've used it before for anything FR or DH.

 Someone I know just happened to do that as well, and on a demo :L

 I hope your buddy isn't sponsored by SRAM, Really isn't a photo he should be spreading around. Everything breaks guys, carbon fiber is showing huge improvements in strength are durability more and more in our industry. I've worked in bike shops a long time and seen lots of broken aluminum frames and parts. I've read and seen a lot of testing of carbon fiber in a lot of industries and I'd say I'd be fairly confident riding a full carbon bike loaded with carbon parts. Everyone says they're gun shy to run another thing carbon when it breaks... but never even blinks and eye when something aluminum breaks. Just saying, be smart and rational. Do your research into whos saying what and why. Put parts on your bike that are appropriate of your riding ability and style and you'll have less issues.

 today's commercial aircrafts use some carbon fibre in some areas. so if you doubt carbon, dont ride an airplane, LOL!

 They were on his bike for about 4 months. weekend warrior. They were the DH specific XO cranks. Looks like the lamination from the carbon to the aluminum bung on the end failed. He now has saint cranks and said "I dont know why i ever got the carbon cranks, these feel just as good and are less expensive" of course aluminum can break too. Just dont think id ever trust a carbon crank. Just way to much stress going on there. He almost got seriously hurt loosing a pedal. Could of just been a bad batch? who knows. Im still being optimistic.

 did your friend at least get warranty, or some type of reimbursement for them?

 The UK one did

 least he chose a good set of pedals

 Exactly. Its amazing how much people freak out when a new product is released. Anything out of the norm isnt accepted

 Have you not seen the testing santa cruz do on their carbon mountain bikes?

 bolmaing, that has nothing to do with "how good carbon is", it's to do with how good Santa Cruz is at manufacturing it and testing it.

 Yes i have seen the video. And im not saying carbon is bad, but i would much rather ride a alloy crank, because of my size and tendancy to smash my cranks off rocks, i know how carbon products are made and i am aware that carbon has a lot of positives, but i weigh 250lbs and 6'4" so i need to use strong parts not light parts. I actually encourage people that know to buy carbon products, but for myself i dont yet feel comfortable using carbon. My personal preferance everyone has their own.

 FAULTY LOGIC. Carbon is less likely to break under a larger rider than aluminum. I am 6'2" and 275 lbs, and I spend the extra on carbon, not to save weight, but for the strength.

 But aluminium tends to bend before it gives, carbon just splinters and snaps. I know what I would prefer!

 Sigh.

Here. We. Go. Again.

So:

Ultimate Tensile strength: (1 GPa = 1000 MPa = 1000 N/mm² = 145,000 PSI ) Aluminum (6061T6) averages at 460 whereas std CF varies, but is around 1500 depending on it being dry or prepreg.

Modulus of Elasticity (how much it bends before it breaks): (10to the power of 9 N/m2, GPa ) 6061 is about 69, whereas CF varies but is about 150. So technicaly, it's more elastic.

Stronger, more ability to absorb deformation, and lighter. Aluminum will "bend" (it actualy deforms and cracks on a micro level, but wtv) long before CF "snaps" (it will also bend and deform before it breaks).

Really guys, there's TONs of charts and information on the web. I pulled mine from the machinery handbook, and a materials engineering textbook. There really is no excuse to be a ludite anymore, and the whole "I'm 400lbs and I shit steel bricks so I need a metal to hold me up" theory isn't based on anything other than incorrect beliefs not grounded in reality. Google the DDG1000 to see how carbon is going, er, balistic...

 From above: sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/421091_371578049536769_100000537314757_1347568_1803237450_n.jpg

 One could fill this page to it's capacity with photos of failed aluminum and steel cranks and parts. I have 3 hone cranks, 2 truvativ cranks alone I can add. Means nothing without actual analysis further than a photo.

 Really? Find me a shot of a Saint crank with the pedal snapped off...

 1: What are you trying to accomplish here? What, exactly, is the point you're trying to make? If it's to somehow defeat science & technology and prove that carbon fiber is inferior to aluminum with regards to strength, you're barking up the wrong tree. Carbon is stronger. Period.

2: You mean the stainless steel pedal insert in the saint crank? Your argument is strawman.

3: There are plenty of bent saint cranks out there. How is this news to you? Go search to your hearts content.

4: Magnets must baffle you.

 Hahahahaha, all I could think of was this...

pictures.mastermarf.com/blog/2010/100421-icp-magnets.jpg

 He mad.

 @atrokz--- nothing personal but,

you need to read a bit more in your textbook or get some experience in material engineering and carbon production before thinking ur qualified to make and defend your comments.

first--- when making a product to preform a certain way with carbon, you cant just layer carbon weave a certain way and expect it to be stronger than aluminum. it takes testing and understanding where the stress is being put on the part to correctly layer carbon weave so it's structurally sound.

second----- its not carbon that makes carbon bike parts effective (by effective i mean strength/weight), its the human designing and engineering that makes it effective. I could do 0 testing, weave some carbon in the shape of a crank right now, have it heavier than a saint crank, and have it snap by just pedaling.

third---- i can throw out a bunch of numbers too, act like the other commenters before me are less intelligent as I, and get positive props on pb. By only seeing the comments you posted I can say ur argument is flawed. Ur info is correct but not pertinent to building mountain bike products.

fourth (and "what I am trying to accomplish here")---- please dont say carbon cranks are stronger and assume u can argue a point just cuz a book says carbon alone is. Carbon dosnt make cranks strong, engineers that are intelligent with college degrees do.

 I was involved in developing the manufacturing process for the front engine section on the F414. I have a jacket that says "JSF Turbine Development Team" written on the back. I was also involved in composite testing for certain battle destroyer structures. I'm more than qualified to make statements as such, and I'll gladly send you a link to where I work if you question my education and "experience".

Furthermore, you're nit picking points that do not pertain to anything in discussion. You're simply trying to make me look foolish by way of changing the actual topic at hand, which isn't working. The topic was carbon as a material itself, not design. Any freshman college student knows it's ultimately the design that dictates strength.

"Ur info is correct but not pertinent to building mountain bike products". Uh, yes, it is. Just like the same materials are pertinent to making F1 race cars.

 Bro bro br0 BRO - i go to MIT Community Colledge and while i agree with what the kind carlmontnative has put forth about me being smart and whatnot - the real issue with that picture is something im working on called the "sam hill effect" - basically, the rider, since he bought a demo with all sram parts EXCEPT a cane creek shock has caused a massive rip in the universe and caused the SRAM component to fail in order to punish the rider for his betrayal - is a vivid not good enough for you? its good enough for sam hill...


or the rider is just super fat...

 lol

 sadly no, the topic is strength of cranks and u failed do discuss anything about them. Thank you for providing links to websites that design impressive stuff, a freshman in college could do that too. And thank you for checking my profile to assume i am a college freshman, i find joy in the thought that a 19 year old will know less then a 20+ year old in every situation.

Like i said before, i was basing my assumptions off of your comments. you made it seem as though you know nothing of the field and have not done anything to change that view.

ur right about the "pertinent to building..." sentence, i ment to say "pertinent to the topic at hand". and to prove to you that i ment "nothing personal" and my intention was to not make u look foolish, lets continue this in the pm u sent.

 "But aluminium tends to bend before it gives, carbon just splinters and snaps."

" Carbon is less likely to break under a larger rider than aluminum"

" i know how carbon products are made and i am aware that carbon has a lot of positives, but i weigh 250lbs and 6'4" so i need to use strong parts not light parts"


Sounds like a topic on a specific material to me. The topic clearly wasn't about cranks in particular. All I did was post specific data for others to discern from. I was hopeful that real information might cast some light on some old wives tales.

 Still waiting for that pic of the destroyed Saint cranks...

 Carbon has its place for mountain biking. Im not saying i wouldnt run it, as i should have been more clear, i would rather run alloy cranks on my dh bike opposed to carbon. More for peace of mind then anything else as i have tendancys to hit my cranks off rocks hard, i know how both carbon and alloy cranks fail. I am aware that carbon has a much higher tensile strength then aluminium or steel. And i have no problems and i would run carbon on a road bike, XC bike, even an all mountain bike. Now my desicions are mine and not influenced my anyone else's biased opinion, i am a free thinking person and i don't need to follow a flock of pigeons to gather my information, when i can spend 30 mins doing a quick search or using it the real world to form my opinion and preferances.

 shity politicians also pull individual quotes that their opponents said to smear their reputation to make themselves look better because they are about to lose an election.

fine, the topic was about carbon bike parts, you didnt mention anything about them or how their effective when made correctly.

if you are going to direct a comment at someone for what one individual said put a @ and their pb account name so people know who ur directing it at.

u attacked cliff. i defended him based on the info i had. cliff posted that link cuz u lead us to believe u were talkin bout cranks, like a comment above you had brought up.
ur info is correct, your argument was not

 UncleCliffy, i m sure i can find a picture of any crank broken. I have seen photos of RF atlas cranks broken, Saint cranks broken where the chainring tabs have been snapped off and the spindle sheared in half, i have seen truvativ hussfelt and holzfellers cracked, slx cranks snappen literally in half, truvativ X0 dh cranks snapped in half, the only crank i have never seen broken is the old RF diabolous cranks

 The Googleverse isn't helping. People are saying they've seen bent/broken Saints. I've been a professional e-rider for years now and I've seen one pair of the 800 series bent cause the bike got ran over by a Jeep. JRA? I can't find a shot, so prove it.

 Glad at least you get it

 If my mobo on my pc didnt melt i would send you all the pictures i have saved of broken crank's. I had 3 sets of the new saints saved the folder had 40 something photos of various broken cranks, but since i dont have a PC and having to use my Iphone as a computer for the last 4 months, doesnt really help, just go through the "broken bikes/parts" catagory in the photo section, they show up every one and a while

 Cliffy, we're actually lobbyists for the Carbon Fiber industry. here to slander the fine reputation of aluminum. You're on to us.

 i just want to add that here at MIT Community Colledge (go fighting enginerds!!!) we have a pretty massive 3 stair jump and i broke my race face diabolus's jumping onto a mattress made of pillows and flat chested sorority girls. i didnt even land the jump, got scared and bailed and the bike landed on a random memory foam mattress a few yards away without spilling the wineglass on the other side. While i safely landed in pillows and pu**y, my bike somehow managed to snap both cranks in what i can only assume was an act of "bicycle rage" that i had ditched riding it to ride (fall on) a chick... i now have e13 cranks and have had no issues

 Keep fighting the good battle!

 www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

 You care. Duh.

 Somewhere is this long fight I got lost. Did someone assuage fears about big rocks repeatedly hitting carbon yet? Aluminium handles big rocks okay so i like it. If carbon does then I will like it too.

I hope that was simply put enough to be properly interpreted.
Also there is the cost to weight ratio. In hoops I see it being worth it for racing. Otherwise can I drop more than 1 lb off of a good frame? According to bikepedia the santa cruz blur r am and the carbon version with the same build were less than a lb apart but $500 apart. Odly though it lists the carbon as heavier and cheaper so I'm inclined to think it is wrong. Anybody got better info?

 d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/945341_700b.jpg

 to reply to sup3rcrows comment ^^^^^^^^^^^ wayyyyy the hell up there, it does have something to do with how good carbon is, because they test them directly against their alloy counterparts. yes blah blah blah carbon lay up blah blah engineers blah blah it's all to do with how they make them YES, but the carbon was still a lot stronger.

 LOL

 plastic is cheaper and lighter.

 That defeats the purpose of protecting the carbon from damage. Plastic cheaper, and it's more resilient to impact damage and scraping.

 so lets coat the whole thing in plastic

 Thats the old Gravity Lights. They changed the alloy in the cranks, now using 7050s. I ran them for a while when I worked at FSA, I beat the hell out of them, definitely way stronger than the older GL cranks

 Ah. A pleasant surprise