Datalogging with Formula

Feb 23, 2017 at 2:20
by Matt Wragg  




"Do you want to come datalogging?" It's not the kind of invite any self-respecting bike nerd should say no to. So when the guys at Formula asked if I want to come play with a rigged- up Selva fork for a day, there was only one answer I could offer...

Datalogging in mountain biking has its roots in the early 90s, when the Sunn team, lead by Nico Vouilloz, rigged up their race bikes to find an edge on the rest of the field. It was ahead of its time, that level of technicality approaching a race arguably still isn't seen today - in no small part thanks to Vouilloz completely ignoring the sponsorship conventions of the DH circuit and, rather than accepting sponsor product, he paid for his suspension to get the best. Since those days it has had something of a halo around it, a mythic tool that most mere mortals never have the chance to get their hands on. Seeing as I'm never likely to worry the sharp end of any race result, it's something I had resigned myself to envying from afar. So when I got the call from Forumla it's fair to say I was rather excited about the prospect.

I am familiar with Formula suspension - I have had their 35 fork on the front of several bikes since late 2014. In that time I have fiddled and tweaked to find a setup that works for me and while I'm not here to review their suspension, it is fair to say that I rate their forks among the very best on the market right now. The Selva fork I would be testing is very close to the 35 I run at home, the chassis is revised, but the internals are more or less the same. The idea would be that I spend a day with their engineers on one of their test bikes riding on a short section of track they have used for testing a lot. We would only collect data on a 20-30 second section in order to keep the results precise and concise.



Datalogging with Formula

Datalogging with Formula
Datalogging with Formula

Datalogging with Formula



There was no clear outcome defined before I arrived. While talking to their engineers, we agreed that I would use the day to try and get a baseline on where my setup for the fork should be and Luca, their chief engineer, was keen for me to try a new compression tune he had developed. It should be made clear here that from a scientific point of view the test would be flawed. I would be riding a track I don't know, on a bike I have never ridden before. There is fundamental basis for experiments: more data is better. This day wouldn't provide enough data on any front to provide real answers, but the hope was that it would provide some insight.

With their roots in the moto side of things, it should be no surprise that Formula are applying this kind of technology to their mountain bike line. Few people realise that Formula were making shocks for motos long before their original mountain bike brake. Luca was also keen to stress that datalogging in mountain biking is not as exact a science as it is in, for example, track sports like Formula One or Moto GP. Having worked in Moto 3 (the Moto GP feeder series), Luca understands this fact intimately. In motorsports the results are so consistent that you can fine-tune the driving/riding to exact points - in Formula One they can use these numbers to coach the drivers on precise braking, acceleration and turning arcs. That isn't possible in mountain biking. There are so many more variables, from changing track conditions to the difficulty of exactly repeating your technique, which means that you don't get as clear and precise a picture of what is actually happening. Ideally, Luca advised me, I would ride the same line in the same manner each time so they could compare performance. However, that is easier said than done - especially with a new track and bike to get your head around. I will put my hands up here and admit that I probably was not a very useful test subject as my riding adapted to the changes in suspension and my line choices evolved as I got more comfortable on the test track.



Datalogging with Formula
Photo - Vittorio Platania

Datalogging with Formula

For the first run the fork was in the stock configuration - that is, medium compression piston and no reduction in the air volume. For this run we set the bike to find a basic balance - my preference tends to be stiffer and higher at the front, with a little lower pressure at the rear, so the bike sits into its travel a bit more and gives me a feeling of riding behind the fork. I set the fork to 70psi, which is slightly harder than they recommend for a rider of my weight, and added 5 clicks of low-speed compression from closed. For the rear we tried a couple of options, before settling with 190psi, which was the best compromise we could find between it riding too high or, alternately, blowing through its travel. This would remain as our rear configuration until the final run, as the focus of our testing was on the fork (and Formula don't currently produce a rear shock).

The run was completely blind this time, so the time should be taken with a pinch of salt. What was clear was that the fork was not where I needed it: With the standard compression damping and air volume it didn't stand up enough in the travel or remain composed enough for how I like to ride. On the trail this translated to a holding-on style of riding - without that support it was hard to place the bike as I would like to and I felt like it all passed by before I had a chance to react fully.

Datalogging with Formula

For the second run we added 25cc of oil to the air spring with no change to the compression damping. This does the same as adding tokens in RockShox or Fox forks - it reduces the air volume to offer a more progressive spring curve (until recently, Fox used the same method to adjust air volume). This means that while it felt the same at the start of the travel, the force needed to compress the fork later in the stroke was much greater, so it stood up more in the travel and resisted bottoming-out more. It is worth noting here that on this particular test track there was no moment where the bike should be bottoming out.

On the trail the difference was immediate, I started to feel like the bike was more in the position I like, where I am riding behind the fork. It is hard to explain the sensation, but I felt like I had more time to see what was coming and to react to it. I could pick and change lines with more confidence.

Datalogging with Formula

With the air-spring volume where I like it, the next step was compression damping. Formula have a unique system for adjusting compression damping. There are two ways you can tune a fork - with the piston or shims. Most mountain bike forks use shims to tune the characteristics, Formula do not, they use the piston. In a system adapted from Moto GP technology, you remove the piston from the top of the fork and pop a new one in. Changing the compression profile is a two-minute job. Easy. It does, however, also come at the cost of adaptability, as shims can be added and removed at will, whereas with this system you need to produce a precision-drilled piston. As stock options, Formula offer soft, medium and hard pistons. The medium piston is considered "stock" and was what we were using up to this point. For the third run we switched to the hard piston - the same one I run at home on my bikes. Compared to the stock piston this offers more compression damping across the board.

At the trail head I backed the low-speed compression off by one click to five clicks as I found that at six clicks there was some vibration coming back through the fork. Unsurprisingly, on the trail this felt comfortable - I had the confidence and support to start riding the bike how I wanted to, picking my lines.

Datalogging with Formula

The first three runs essentially validated how I set my bikes - testing each of the adaptations I like. For the fourth run Luca introduced his new, custom piston. This is designed to be somewhere slightly beyond the hard piston. There is more low-speed compression, but ever so slightly less high-speed compression - the result is a more supportive ride throughout the stroke. Air pressure remained unchanged and the low-speed adjust stayed at 7 clicks.

Rolling into the trail the fork felt firm, but despite this there was a level of comfort to the ride - there was none of the vibration I found when I added more low-speed compression to the hard piston. While descending the firmness was instantly forgotten, the fork felt comfortable still, but the additional mid-stroke support was immediately noticeable - even on my first run with the piston I felt more confident and more able to pick and chose where I put the bike and how I rode it. The clock backs this up - I was notably faster than on the run with my standard setup.

Datalogging with Formula

With the bike feeling good the question was, what direction now? We decided that with the compression set we would try and adjust the air. As the fork felt firm, we took 5psi out of the air spring. In the car park this felt amazing, the fork felt much plusher, but still with support and nice ramp-up on the spring.

On the trail leading up to our timed section the difference was much less pronounced and when I actually dropped in, the fork had definitely taken a step in the wrong direction. The comfort you could feel in the car park made no difference, because there was no difference in comfort out on the trail. To make matters worse, the fork no longer felt as precise and the lowered ride height made it harder to get comfortable on the bike.

Datalogging with Formula

At this point we felt that we had found the best setup for the fork we were going to find in the time available, so we put the 5psi back into the fork and started to look at the rear shock. Up to this point the best you could say about the shock was that it had been acceptable. Luca spent a few minutes fiddling and came back with the bike where he felt it would be better - after trying some different air pressures he settled on simply switching up to the "trail" compression setting. We had tried this in the morning, but, when paired with the stock fork, the front and rear suspension hadn't felt balanced. Now with the additional compression damping up front, the extra compression damping at the bike's rear end made the bike feel more balanced than it had all day.

In honesty, I cocked-up the final run. Formula's test rider, Benjy, had been following me all day and suggested that I was getting one of my lines wrong (at home his riding buddies include a couple of guys called Loic Bruni and Loris Vergier, so he knows a thing or two). I tried changing that line and blew it, I virtually stopped, lowering speed through the longest straight on the section. If you look at the telemetry you could see where I braked harder and earlier than my other runs, how my average speed was ruined, yet despite this I came out of the run only a couple of seconds off and we reckon that without the time lost I would have been on for my best time of the day.

Datalogging with Formula

Datalogging with Formula

So, what can I take away from all this? The main thing is that more data is needed. As I said at the beginning, this was a flawed test and sitting here looking at that mass of lines there is no clear statement from. What is reassuring is that Luca (who is much smarter than I am) can take little away from this too. Without more context, more testing and more data it is hard to tell you too much, which tells you a lot about datalogging--it takes a lot of time and repetition to yield useful and reliable results. Anybody can wire a bike up with this kit, but to get useful data from it you need experience and understanding, it doesn't magically make your suspension better. This is also a very limited test track. There were no moments where I should have been anywhere near full travel. On a more varied track you would get a more complete picture of how the suspension is working. Also, without rider feedback all the data are of little use.



Datalogging with Formula
Datalogging with Formula

Datalogging with Formula
The four valves - the three stock are on the left (grey = soft, blue = medium and red = hard) and the custom valve on the right. Above you can see the medium and custom valve - if you look closely you can see the difference in the drilling to regulate the oil flow and provide the desired characteristics.



But that's not to say that this was wasted time or that I didn't learn anything. Now that I know a little bit, I want to know much more to really understand what is going on with my bike. Certainly this small test has helped confirm my preference for suspension settings on the aggressive side of things. One thing that has bugged me every day since our data logging, however, is the matter of air volume - the evidence here suggests that I am more comfortable with a progressive spring curve, but with the modified compression profile, do I still need such a ramp-up? Could I remove some oil from the spring leg as I am not using all the travel? Looking at the numbers it is clear that the compression damping had a far greater effect on how much travel the fork was using - it also shows that I was more comfortable when the fork used the travel more sparingly. Although the average fork travel remained consistent all day, with the custom valve I was using around 20mm less travel at max. The same goes for the rear, on the run when Luca re-worked the shock the average went down substantially and the max decreased slightly too. To me, all this suggest exactly what one World Cup tech told me recently, "Just because your suspension is moving, it doesn't mean it is working." However, looking at the compression and rebound speeds it is hard to draw any conclusion from such limited data.

Then there is the question of balance - as flawed as run six may have been, it has left me more certain than ever that balance is the most important thing - the fork was feeling better than any fork I can remember using, but without a rear shock matched to it I wasn't reaching my full potential. The day also reminded me of how useless the car park test is - the fork for run five felt best in the car park, but it was demonstrably worse on the trail than with the higher air pressure. Of course, one day of testing only elevates these things to the level of strong suspicions. I just have to hope that one more of those calls comes through one day...

Author Info:
mattwragg avatar

Member since Oct 29, 2006
753 articles

62 Comments
  • 104 2
 Spends hours collecting data... gets puncture on race run..
  • 76 9
 Fantastic article Matt. I love it how humble and informative it is. As Piotrek Kania from BFG Suspension told me: data acquisition gives you lots of cool numbers but what to do with them is another story. Then you need someone who can provide repetitive consistent lap times, and if you can't do it then what chance do we regular Joes have? this is why I always laugh at people saying that Fox 36 is better than Lyrik or coil is faster than air because there is no way in the whole world that they can prove it with lap times. Brendan Fairclough said that Gambler with longer chainstay setting was consistently faster by over a second on whatever track they were testing it on. Well the moment you are able to deliver such consistent lap times to give such feedback is the moment when you can say that what works for Brendan, works for you. Other than that you can't and you better focus on good things in life not some small change costing hubdreds if not thousands of dollars
  • 17 2
 Thanks.
  • 7 2
 Hey Waki, as meaningless as it may sound I am thinking that it would be fun to try the ShockWiz from Bikeplace in combination with 2-4 channels of triax accellerometers just to see if your prefferd setting via ShockWiz changes the max-min profile of shock input on a short test track, i.e. is it the shocks or your muscles that do most of the work. Also, the time on the track section would be nice to add to such an experiment. I am talking to my colleague at this moment if we have some light vibration collection system to wear in a backpack. BR Mats
  • 18 2
 That was quite interesting I must say. On another note, its amazing that just a few short years ago before internal routing, everyone's bikes looked like that.
  • 1 0
 This is why the stop watch is the best indicator. Pick a track you are intimately familiar with and time away.
  • 4 0
 But @WAKIdesigns , if the hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars being spent are on bikes, isn't that a way of focusing on one of the good things in life? Also (and related), is buying and extra pint after a good ride a bike related purchase?
  • 3 0
 From a statistical point of view, you can draw very precise conclusions across setups even without super consistent times. It just takes more observations. Something time and patience don't usually permit.
  • 1 0
 @humanpowered: True, it wouldn't be too hard to write up a few routines to bin and evaluate certain types velocities observed and relate that to the riding intent of the rider (leisure, race run etc.). I'd be stoked to hear more on how this data is being analyzed for use in various applications. The main point really, is how can this data be evaluated or distilled for a general weekend warrior or racer?
  • 2 0
 @baramats: try a national instruments ni 9234 with a USB carrier. 4 bnc inputs. A few grams for each accelerometer and no more than 150g for the module. There's a few off the shelf kits available for race car datalogging too
  • 2 0
 @baramats: I just meant that it has much more to do with satisfying your curiosity than with reality based results. I buy the idea of feeling better on a particular bike or component. It's all cool.

Shockwiz, maybe... i know the SAG range for my bike. I know what feels good on local trails. Took me a few months to get it feeling right. In the mountains? Another story. Could be nice to try it in Hafjell
  • 1 0
 @yeti-monster: ni 9234 needs to be integrated in the compactRio or compactDaq motherboards, so this will not work for their portable data logging application. rig that they had looks pretty good - compact, battery-powered, flash memory for internal data logging, multichannel, relatively fast (considering they were taking data 20~30s duration).

@everyone
www.hioki.com/en/products/detail/?product_key=5661 -- this would be useful datalogger for shoe manufacturers for characterizing how fast smelly feet develops
  • 2 0
 @fartymarty: this is a stopwatch, but you get to see what happened each second. A simple stopwatch will only tell you if you're faster, not what makes you faster.
  • 1 0
 @Stvante: I mentioned USB carrier. It's a single module chassis and weighs less than a module. Straight into a netbook or pi. No need for c-daq
  • 1 0
 @yeti-monster: cool! thanks for info Smile
  • 1 0
 @baramats: I'm going to try these. We use them at work:

www.mide.com/collections/shock-vibration-data-loggers

I'm going to 3D print some brackets and measure the input at the wheel(s) (not suspended). Then compare it to data taken close to where I touch the bike near the bottom bracket and the handlebar. I won't have any idea about travel or anything like that, but I just was curious to see the PSD at the wheels vs at the contact points to see how much of the input is being filtered out by the suspension. I don't expect this to make me any faster or even to use it to tune my suspension. But it will be fun.
  • 16 1
 I really think datalogging it being applied to the wrong thing tuning suspension for us mortals - instead how about developing a coaching methodology based around it? Have the computer compare your run with a pro's run down the same track (with the pro reining it in a bit probably!) and get detailed feedback on what you're doing differently at each point, mainly looking at the weighting and leaning of the bike I imagine. An extension of today's video analysis.

Nice honest article though, I was thinking "but what are the numbers really telling us" before I scrolled down and behold Matt said, not a lot. Likewise respect to Formula for engaging the mtb press with something open ended like this rather than a straight out sales effort.
  • 3 0
 I love this idea! The techs probably there, but a totally new application!
  • 2 0
 I'm a data nerd on so many levels in my professional life, I should really love this. Here's the thing, though - to make feedback from telemetry meaningful, you need a pretty good numerical model that tells you what "better" actually means. You can measure until the cows come home without that and never get anywhere. Weighting and leaning the bike are universally recognized as important for good turning - but you'll have a hell of a time determining an algorithm that can not only model that, but also give you actionable feedback. Given that the algorithmic approach is so limited, it's striking how quickly you can make progress with a coach giving feedback and cues - that's entirely heuristic, but tends to get instant results. And not just for punters like me (every time I spend a couple hours taking a class, I come away with a whole new level of enjoyment and appreciation for the sport), but apparently even for elite level racers trying to break into the pros.
  • 4 0
 @g-42: Agreed, I took a class with Lee likes bikes and that was the single most effective way to get better at biking.
  • 1 0
 @g-42: I think my presumption is that the pro's run is better than mine so where my telemetry diverges from theirs (after correcting for body mass) is therefore where I went wrong. Weighting and leaning are good, but quantitatively how much? where? when? are you leaning the bike by bar pressure, knee on the top tube, pedal pressure, or french flick style steering the front wheel outwards to initiate the turn? Telemetry could pick all this apart far better.
  • 15 0
 Science!
  • 5 1
 I love science! Still struggling with low speed rebound on all my forks tho...
  • 13 0
 An article I can read at work and look like I'm working. Cheeky.
  • 4 0
 I found the descriptions of how the bike/fork felt when ridden useful. Its often hard to absorb whats happening under you when you are focused on speed and staying rubber side down and then translating that into words and actions to adjust the suspension.. What I take away from this is that a firmer more progressive set up is where its at, as long as this is not at the expense of energy depleting vibration.

I ride an older bike but with up to date front suspension and my set up tends towards the firmer side of things with low speed compression damping adjusted to trail conditions. Lots of climbing I slack it off, lots of steeps and I dial it in again. Your comments on for/aft balance make me wonder how my bike would perform with a more modern rear shock like a Float X for instance, that would perhaps better complement the fork.
  • 6 0
 It's like using a POV. You realize later that the hard part of the work is still pending.
  • 2 0
 Nice article! I like that kind of data collection and analysis...But my god the laps comparison plots are not very informative, even visually. Plotting curves on top of each other end trying to make out a trend when the location of the bumps are not normalized spatially or temporally is a bit pointless. I'm sure the guys at Formula could have shown more interesting data! But hey, that might be kept secret! Anyway, keep it up with that kind of article! It's great to see how bike components are developed and improved.
  • 5 0
 Should use the data acquisition to test the SRAM(ShockWIz) suspension tuning tool.
  • 5 0
 Like a side by side to see how it stacks up? That would be a pretty neat idea for sure.
  • 5 0
 I love this suspension geekery, which is why I've ended up running Avalanche stuff, so great work Matt thumbs up>
  • 1 0
 @pablo16v What avy stuff are you running and what do you like / dislike about it?
  • 1 0
 @nicolai12: I'll keep this short as I could drone on. I have a converted Pike and DHX 5.0 air shock, which I've been running for almost 3 years now. Both have much better control right through the travel range compared to off the shelf kit, and when you're really pushing on there's a balance and fluidity to the Avy stuff which just feels awesome, with no harshness, spiking or wallow. I guess the best praise I can give is that I've spent 3 years running the Avy stuff whereas before I was constantly swapping, tweaking and tuning forks and shocks trying to get them to feel the way I wanted. Negatives: the only negative for me is that the shock needs a bit more looking after as it tends to push air into the oil after a few months of hard riding so it needs at least a couple of services per year. That's about it really, as other than that they have both been completely reliable.
  • 3 0
 Would love a review of that Selva fork, it's looking very appealing to me, and when are the Linea wheels going for sale, and at what price?
  • 1 0
 I'm a little surprised that other variables like tire pressure and ambient weather conditions aren't also mentioned (or maybe they were included but not touched on)- things like temperature and barometric pressure can have effects on fluids and their characteristics, but tire pressure is probably the biggest as it is the only thing between the suspension and the soil. A tire up or down 2 psi can totally change damping feedback, not to mention traction which may affect speed and braking.

If this riding a bike all day for science thing is an actual job I would love to put in an application! No podium pressure and in the name of our lord Gwinn you are helping humanity!
  • 1 0
 What I find interesting is the Gyroscope measurement. Overlapping shows a relative consistancy between runs on most measurements, however the lean angles are all over the place.

For accurate results wouldn't the rider input have to be near identical, hence all tests are invalid until speed, gyro, braking and pedaling graphs align. Then once could start looking at suspension characteristics...?
  • 1 0
 I'd love some sort of low priced data acquisition device for my bike. I struggled for so long with my Pike RC before getting the Mattoc. Deeper investigation by a friend revealed the Pike shim stack to be brutally stiff. Great for DH, but sh1te everywhere else for me. As for the test, it took me about 6 runs to set up my shock. I reckon I'd need at least the same to do the fork. Still a really interesting article.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, surprising what you can find. I question the entire dynamic of a hard tail, but also own one because I like them. With the things people do with things like trophy trucks, they could probably make some pretty impressive bike suspension with an open mind, and research.
  • 2 0
 It's a strange world in which this type of tech exists, but I still gets peeps on demo days unsure how to set sag and basic stuff.

Strictly for the pros (and wannabe pros)
  • 2 0
 I imagine it is a lot like when I first discovered Strava, where instantly on a ride I can see how much faster all my mates are... and everyone else out that day...
  • 2 0
 I know the feeling.
"Whew! That was a fast lap! Oh... nvm... 47th place..."
  • 2 1
 Shove some sticks in their spokes or peanut butter in their cone type hubs...that'll slow em down! Then tease them afterwards. In a few short weeks you will have no friends and be faster than all zero of them.
  • 3 0
 Pinkbike, when are you going to review the 35? Formula, where the hell can I buy one? (In US)
  • 2 0
 "not all numbers are data". Data is meaningful, it tells you something
  • 1 0
 this post hurts to look at with out shock histograms! distance base isn't nearly as useful.
  • 6 3
 Cable OCD. Kicking. In.
  • 2 1
 I can ride without bordering any of the equipment, until someone mentioned it. lol
  • 2 0
 This is where I think internal cable routing would make sense.
  • 2 0
 these articles are so rad. thanks.
  • 2 1
 I took months to adjust suspension, but i got diarrhea before start....
  • 2 0
 great article thanks PB
  • 1 0
 I can't get enough of these articles PB! Keep em coming
  • 1 0
 as an engineer, those graphs are a thing of beauty. so many colours!!
  • 1 0
 Wake up Neo!
  • 2 3
 My head hurts, make it stop!
  • 12 0
 Go ride
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