Markus Pekoll's 27.5" Mondraker Summum

Mar 13, 2014 at 3:03
by Matt Wragg  























BIKE CHECK
Markus Pekoll's
Mondraker DH Racer
WORDS & PHOTOS: Matt Wragg

San Romolo is the most important downhill track you have never heard of. It's on no major race circuit, either international or national - you simply couldn't get the infrastructure in place to make it work. Yet each winter may of the world's top teams, riders and manufacturers head there to dial in their settings for the season. It's a brutal test of body and bike, an unending, high-speed series of rocks that stretch even the best riders in the world to their limits. We caught up with Markus Pekoll on a test session there as he worked with Marzocchi to dial in his new Mondraker Summum with 27.5" wheels.

  While this may look similar, this bike has an entirely new front triangle with revised geometry.


Pekoll's Summum may look like the current version, but while the tubing profile is unchanged, the entire front triangle has been altered to take the larger wheels. It's something that bike designers stress time and again - you can't just put bigger wheels on a bike and expect it to work. The head angle for the new bikes has been reduced to 64 degrees, but the team riders have dropped in 1 degree reducer cups to take it back out to 63 degrees - the same as they were running on the 26 version. At the start of the morning Lukas, the team manager, mentioned that the bottom brackets were lowered for the new frame, but when we asked him later for specifics he ducked our questions, not wanting to give too much away. We would be extremely surprised if the bottom brackets weren't lowered to compensate for the change caused by the higher axle height with larger-diameter wheels. At the back the rear triangle is unchanged, but the bike is only usable in the longer 450mm chainstay setting as there isn't enough tyre clearance in the 440mm setting. It is this improvisation at the back of the bike that reveals the true nature of this bike - it is a stop-gap, a temporary fix to dial in the geometry the racers want for an all-new downhill bike that the team say isn't too far away...

   For the new bike, the top tube on the Forward Geometry bikes is even longer, but the team is pairing that with a standard Renthal stem

Even Further Forward Geometry

One of the most interesting changes to the bike is the top tube length. The team are using the Forward Geometry version of the frame, which has a slightly longer top tube than the normal version. On this new bike with revised geometry they are still using the Forward Geometry frame, but have had the top tubes made even longer than they are on the current production bikes. Cesar Rojo, the designer behind Forward Geometry, intended the longer top tube to be paired with a 0/10mm reach stem to correct the reach to that of a bike with more traditional geometry, yet even with the new, longer top tube the team are pairing it with 45mm stems. Asking Pekoll about why they are doing this he explains that, "The short stems might are good on my enduro bike, but for World Cup downhill the slightly longer stem means I can get more weight onto the front wheel."

  For a World Cup racer, Markus is quite restrained with his bar height, running 10mm of spacers under the crown and a 38mm, 780mm Renthal bar

Components

As part of the MS Mondraker team, Markus is one of the riders who has been helping Marzocchi dial in their new range of suspension products. At the front of his race bike is their top of the line CR380 C2R2 Titanium fork, with their new Moto coil shock controlling the rear. To save those precious few grams for World Cup racing, he uses a titanium spring. We didn't get a chance to see Markus' timings, but his teammate, Damien Spagnolo, had shaved 10 seconds off his time on a two and a half minute course thanks to the tuning from Marzocchi's in-house genius, Pedro.

  Marzocchi's new CR380 fork has a dedicated 27.5 chassis, with tweaked offsets and increased clearance to take the larger-diameter wheels.

  Mavic supply this set of 'Special Service Course' (translated from French to English this means 'Special Race Service') 27.5 Deemax. Speaking to Markus he said that they are the same as the current production wheels, but with a slightly expanded diameter.

  As the MS Mondraker team aren't fully SRAM-supported athletes they are still running XO and don't yet have the new XX1-derived, 7-speed drivetrain. Formula provide the brakes, SDG the custom team-branded saddles. Markus is running Crank Bros Mallet pedals and keeps a moto lap timer on his bar to keep an eye on his pace (although there is a Freelap system at San Romolo, so he wasn't using it when we saw him.

bigquotesWhile we aren't surprised to see a company as willing to push the boundaries of bike design as Mondraker adopting larger wheels, the bike feels like a watershed moment in many ways. Mondraker don't have the budget of some of the bigger companies and it's clear that they have decided that the long-term development of their downhill bikes will be based around the larger wheels. Feedback from Markus Pekoll is unambiguous - with the revised the geometry, the bigger wheels mean they have been able to make a slightly better bike than the one they had before. What he was riding here in San Romolo is an evolution of the current bike to set the geometry they will use for the forthcoming bike. From what the team say, the new bike is very close and team manager, Lukas, describes it as "beautiful." Mondraker have always produced some of the wildest bikes in mountain biking and we can't wait to see what they have up their sleeve... - Matt Wragg



132 Comments

  • 168 2
 I was looking at the Summum in a catalogue in a LBS the other day.

I commented that cos I'm a big tall guy, putting a standard stem on one would be a good idea cos of the longer TT.

The owner looked at me like I was a prat.

To most (certainly uk) LBS owners-

The reason there is only one local bike shop left that I'll spend any real money at, is not because Chain Reaction and Wiggle are so much cheaper. It's because the rest of the LBS's are patronising c#nts. Stop treating your costumers like they are a dim witted inconvenience and they may be more loyal.

Sorry to go off topic.

Nice bike! Smile
  • 43 4
 I know, the other day I went my LBS to get a couple of gel packs, and so I asked the dude at the counter which brand had better results, and the a*shole just looked at me and said: "I don't use that kind of stuff, I'm all natural". Talk about sales skills...
  • 10 0
 Exactly the kind of disinterested crack I'm on about. It's like they're not even trying to run a business. I've owned several businesses where me and my employees dealt with the public, and sometimes you feel like kicking them in the shins and poking them in the eye at the same time, but they are paying your bills!
  • 9 2
 I recently got my bike serviced and the people who serviced it were taking great pride in telling me how hard it was to fix beacuse..blah,blahblahblah and how i wasen't looking after it.. They wont see my money again. (most of the parts were loose after the service).
  • 4 2
 i agree with you @rightthen .
  • 8 0
 Seems like all you need today is a laptop (or smartphone), and a good mechanic...LBS are not in position to be playing arrogant.
  • 7 0
 Same shit here, I walk into my LBS( like 3 years ago) and ask for a burlier tyre one with more grip than my Schwalbe Nobby Nic, he grabs a Racing Ralph and tries to sell it for 65€...
  • 13 1
 I don't think I've ever seen a comment on pb that I agree with more. I really do want to support local businesses (bike shops in particular) but I've always found that I have to pay huge amounts more for products than I would online, and most of the employees that I've spoken to at bike shops usually treat me like an idiot and try to sell me something that I already know that I don't need.
  • 19 1
 To be dead honest if you've got the tools and YouTube, fixing 90% of stuff on a bike is easy.

Don't even get me started on that side of things..... nope, too late-

What the f#ck is with the hatred towards customers who have some interest in cycle maintenance etc and can ride a bike? When I had no idea LBS seemed to love me. Now I know what I'm on about and ride most days all of a sudden, I'm a prick! I take my full tool kit everywhere now cos last time I asked to borrow a BB tool you'd think I'd asked for their first born child's right foot! This is not an isolated incident and all these places had me as a good costumer prior to being either slyly or overtly offensive.

My rule now is, if they don't treat me the same when I want a pair of grips as they do when I'm looking at a bike, they can do one.

Deep breath.
  • 17 2
 What shit shops are you wandering into? There are a ton of shitty shops out there to be sure but there are also a few excellent ones who will go above and beyond hook you up on price and are great people as well. If you are in Colorado check out Mojo Wheels good people, no bs. Support the good ones, avoid the bad.
  • 7 0
 Sorry for the shout out--Revolution in Sandy, UT is amazing. They'll bust out their tools and TEACH you how to fix something. Any shop not willing to educate a buyer will lose to the shop that is more than willing--YOUTUBE. Any shop not willing to price match will get their ass kicked by jensonusa and the like. And don't go on brick and mortar tangents.
  • 5 0
 I've got a mate who's from California (good mechanic as it happens). His stories about how good American costumer service is amazed me.

There are good shops here but they're few and far between.
  • 5 0
 Mine's great, they're not even an MTB specialist either. Always happy to help and more often than not don't charge me for minor jobs that I can't manage myself through lack of a specialist tool or my weak, noodle arms. I guess I can't give a name but they're on Cathedral Road in Cardiff Wink
  • 4 0
 Hold on to them sundance. Hold on to them and never let go!
  • 2 0
 There is one, maybe two I still like round my way. But there are a lot round my way.
  • 1 0
 I have 4 local shops, only 1 is decent, 2 of them aren't interested unless I have 700cc bike and the other 1 tries to sell me the top of the range kit instead of what I originally asked, if I wanted a £200+ kit bag I would have asked but NO I only want a small camelbak!
  • 1 0
 I couldn't agree more, there are only two shops I will ever go to because I know the owners on a very personal level, but every other bike shop is terrible. I took my dj to a shop to get my forks swapped (I didn't have the right tools) and the ass wipe destroyed my headset and made me pay for a another one
  • 3 4
 yea living in vancouver i have practically no options for good shops...
  • 6 2
 As a bike shop technician and also working in sales, as a shop we have NEVER had a.complaint about our.customer service, half the time customer has incorrect facts, thus mislead opinions. However as a shop we always take the time to understand what the customer is trying to achieve and advise best possible option for them, irrelevant of it being most expensive. As a result of this willingness to understand the root of the problem we have an extensive loyal customer base. However we still get endless amounts of people who come in after not asking out advice buying cheap online and then wondering why it doesn't fit their bike.
  • 4 2
 What are you talking about!?!?^
Im born and raised Vancouver but living abroad now. I was in town last week visiting family and friends and popped by DUNBAR Cycles
and they were super cool and prices to boot. Totally friendly and not a sarcastic note in the bunch as they sorted me out. Thanks DUNBAR!
Oh-ya, that ride looks sick!
Also. What about North Shore Bike Shop? They seem legit.
  • 2 0
 Couldn't agree more unfortunately. Most, but not all of the sales people that I've dealt with in Calgary have been snobs. Of all the words too :/ Snobs. Or at least stuck up in one way or another. This comment does not apply to Calgary Cycle. Those guys have been tops every single time Smile
  • 2 0
 I was being sarcastic about living in Vancouver and not having a good shop, for those who can't take a joke. There's tons of great shops Dunbar being one also cove is great and so is steed and north shore bike shop to name a few
  • 5 4
 I spends thousands each year on MTB, and everyone one of those dollars goes to my LBS. You can't go riding or end up good buddies with a URL.
  • 3 2
 I would be more than happy to buy from a bike shop more often, I get it's not always their fault for charging so much because they still need to make a living. But me and many others want the best bang for the buck and if I can get 50% off a product on crc, I'm buying off crc.
  • 4 3
 I'm glad this conversation turned around. Support your LBS as much as possible!!
  • 12 0
 I'm a wench at a LBS and even I am frustrated with the GM/owner about customer service issues. Straight up ignoring customers, being blatantly rude to others. We are located right off of a super popular trail (like 20 yards away from the trailhead) and so we get a lot of customers coming in for air, or maybe a gatorade or something and its infuriating to be in the back of the shop working on something and watch the owner just blow off these types of customers. Anyone walking through the door of a shop should be met with a smile and a hellava lot of customer service.

From a money making standpoint, shops should realize that anyone of these guys could potentially come back in a week and buy a $2000 bike from them. Whenever I'm working the floor, I try to come at customers with this mentality. And even if they don't spend top dollar at the shop, who knows when I'll get a flat halfway down the local trail, and the only guy that has a spare is the one that recognizes me as the d*ck from that rude bike shop.

Positive mechanics and sales guys at your LBS make a positive local biking community...thats my two cents!!!
(I try bring those "Brett Tippie Good Vibes" to work as much as I can!!!)
  • 2 0
 i totally agree every single client it should get his time by serving him according to his needs even if sometimes is acting weird because you never know if is your next big customer of the day! from my side it happened as guest i bought a brand new bike from a shop that i am not so relative without to mention that sometime the owner it used to be so rude (even if most of my friends working or running their own lbs)
  • 3 0
 Just this week my girlfriend tried a fatbike in a local shop, out of curiosity. She's definitely no stranger to bikes and certainly knows a good deal about them.
After trying the bike she let some air out of the tires, and tried some more. When she returned she asked the sales person what brake this was, due to no lettering other than shimano, while pointing at the left side of the bars and the guy said 'That's the front brake!'.

Yesterday I tried the same bike and pointed out that there (again) was way too much air in the tires, felt like 1.5bar, the girl from the shop said that everybody who rode the bike would say this, but her boss is adamant about that pressure.

Few months ago, same bike shop, I was looking to get some bolts for an ISCG05 chainguide, went into the workshop which is across the street, asked the guy what bolts I would need for an ISCG mount and he said it depends on what brake I had. Yeah, exactly. I tried to make him understand what I was on about but he did not know what bolts go with an ISCG05 mount. And he is working at THE bike shop for big bikes in the nearest 10km.
Two minutes in the internet -> M6 countersunk.

*massiverolleyes*
  • 3 0
 You're a wench??
  • 2 0
 well my ex-gf would probably call me a wench....but in this case i meant "Wrench"
  • 1 0
 rightthen you couldnt be more right!
  • 9 1
 Too all of you who have had bad experiences with bike shops, I am truly sorry. It sucks (although it makes me feel good on the inside) when I hear of customers being treated like s**t at other shops just because they don't ride their brand and when they come to our shop they say they are so happy we just listened and didn't criticise them for being 'stupid' or 'ignorant'.

Too whoever ^^^ up there who was complaining about the shop not letting them borrow a BB tool, i'm not suprised the shop gave you that response. They aren't there as a charity. They are there to make money. If someone wanted to learn how to take a BB out, I would show them how to do it and usually then they would buy the tool and do it themselves. If someone is keen enough to get that involved with fixing their own bike then more big ups to them. But to come into a shop and ask to borrow their tools is a bit disrespectful in my opinion.
  • 2 1
 Totally agree. I live in south east of the uk and in actually fact the only bike shops that don't treat you like an idiot is the big franchises.
  • 2 0
 Ok bolmaing, I generally agree with you there but- let me put this situation to you. .

The shop knows me well, doesn't sell BB tools, has a busy workshop without tightening my BB I can't ride (or will certainly ruin my BB). My bike is not in their shop getting in the way. They know I'm not going to run of with it or break it. It's a small favour I'm asking so that I haven't travelled 1.5 hrs in the car for nothing.

I would lend me the tool. Without being a prick about it. But maybe I'm a mug?

The BB tool statement was a bit out of context. It was the continuation of a rant I was on concerning the seeming dislike said bike shops have for riders with any knowledge or interest in maintaining their own bikes.
  • 3 0
 Well, in my case, i only have one local actual bike shop. then there's an equivalent to the british "halfords" (decathlon) which does mtb amongst other sports.
The lbs does both road and mtb, but they don't stock any bikes/components other than XC oriented stuff.
The guys at the lbs are ok, not super friendly, but not arrogant/condescending.
I don't really go there that often because:
- i do most of my own repairs/servicing
- don't buy much from there unless emergency like tubes / pads, because of the price.

I think lbs prices should be higher than online, because they should include future service, installation and troubleshooting WITHIN the price.
what i'm not cool with is lbs's that will say, right: cost of your new fork + install costs + tuning costs + + + + + + +...

To me that should be the difference between LBS and online. online is cheaper but you need the skills to DIY, LBS is more expensive but better if you don't have time/motivation to learn.
  • 2 1
 Lbs prices are where they are because our cost is actually normally same as what big online shops sell to the customer for. So it is never a level playing field online vs lbs.
  • 3 1
 @ rightthen

Well Said...f*ck them...
  • 4 0
 Having worked in a bike shop for nearly 2 years as a salesman, i certainly know what you mean. Ive seen it in (ex) colleagues, they think that because they've been given the power to sell bikes they're at a higher level of knowledge or skill. Riders can be pricks, its a shame most of them work in the stores haha! I dont understand why though, surely if you're an arrogant little shit who is apparently better than everyone else you'd be racing world cups Wink ?

We actually had a case in the store i worked at where a customer had left a crap review on our google page or something, then ended up working for us a few months after! Talk about hypocracy, and that attitude just transpires into a working environment! You work in a place where customer satisfaction is (well should be) paramount! You can really tell when a LBS is doing it right when there's people just talking to customers, laughing and being happy *nawh*.
  • 2 0
 I promise if you come into our bike shop, I'll chat with you about bikes, gear, whatever!!!! We (try) to treat customers as good as I can. We also get bikes out asap. No need for them to sit around. If you live in a place without bike shops, there's a good chance there's also no bike culture there either. Just check your LBS for parts before buying from Chain Reaction Wink
  • 21 0
 Anyone have a review of the 380 now they've been out for a while and used well, im done with fox 40's now.
  • 4 0
 Hear hear! I still own and love some classic Marzocchis from 2003, so I'm very interested in jumping onto the 380 if it's as good, or even better!
  • 1 0
 @karaknic monster T?!!
  • 2 0
 would also be interessted in a 380 review
  • 2 3
 their stickers are awful lately (:
  • 8 0
 the forward geometry idea is intriguing. but there's an obvious problem here if the designer is trying to push the idea even further - while the team riders are having to compensate for the problems its causing them by spec'ing longer stems. either both sides need to get on the same page and start communicating, or mondraker needs to revisit this idea and/or its application across their range of bikes
  • 2 0
 they are running normal length stems, just not using super short 10mm/0mm
  • 3 0
 Longer top tubes are the future but the public is refusing to buy into it properly. At 5 foot 8 i should be able to ride a medium bike. Not a large. A fwd geo mondy in medium should size up the same as my large scalp but without been higher in the top tube clearance like a large sized old mondy. At least then a zero stem can be personal choice
  • 4 2
 I'm not quite sure long top tubes are the way to go. Bikes with long top tubes require a lot of core muscles to steer and keep stable, and although I'm not questioning the fitness of pro athletes, I'm pretty sure they will have more left the tank for pedalling if they don't have to do the equivalent of 500 crunches in a run.
  • 4 2
 Crunches? You on your bike upside down?
  • 11 7
 Fabdaeme - with all the respect longer bikes require less strength, longer wheelbase is intrinsicaly more stable and the longer arm of the force you can act on the bije makes it easier to handle. Ling bikes are problematic for people that ride sliw because they don't turn as easily, they require skill and commitment in handling. An average potential buyer of the santa cruz bronson is a bloke who is a poor rider from various reasons, thus the bike's geometry must be compensated for that.

The actual reach that is distance from pedals to grips has a hinge on it's way inform of a head tube thus it cannot be considered only in terms of fit like arm reach. Stem length has a big effect on bike handling regardless of to tube length. A bike with 430 reach and 70mm stem will handle differently than a bike with 500 reach and 0 stem, even though the actual reach stays the same. What about handlebar sweep angles? It is about the whole recipe, by making a desifn decision one is making an assumption: this will work that way. But it doesn't mean it will work better.
  • 4 3
 Waki's right about that 1
  • 2 0
 I guess you dint quite get Mondrakers concept. Forward geometry means you combine a longer top tube with a super short stem 0-10mm therefore the reach stays the same, you are not hanging in there like in a hammock but you get the longer wheelbase for more stability. Now the racers might opt for a standard stem because long top tubes also give you a lot more room to move and correct before you go over the bars if things get tricky.... so you don't need to scream wahhhaaaa Huuhuuu.... like seen on some world cup course previous but use that energy for steering on the rest of the course... seriously, the difference is minimal there. These 30-40mm will not be the reason for your sore abs the next day...
  • 3 0
 the part about the bronson ahahaha
  • 4 5
 The issue I have with short stems is that there is as much stability in the system as the wheel base and fork trail provides. Once a hit on the front tyre blows through that, things become sketchy, bike becomes a shopping cart. Sure, a rider of a magnitude of Markus Pekoll can deal with that better than I deal with an urge to fart in an elevator but for an average Joe, such handling schisophrenia is not inspiring confidence. Dhort stems makebig wheelers alive though.
  • 2 0
 There is the relationship of top tube to wheelbase to consider. that extra half inch of top tube coupled with a slack front end means bikes are getting LONG. This isn't bad if your trails are flowy, but here in central texas, where its very rocky with lots of short steep ups, means that it can be a pain to maneuver at low speeds thru certain sections. I personally ride a large yeti, and its as long as my bike rack gets (saris cycle-on pro). Its probably less of an issue with bikes that aren't large or xl, but my top tube is already near 25". I run a 60mm stem. And short rear ends have their limits- any shorter than the 16.9 my bike has and I feel like I'd wheelie on the steep ups. I actually had to bump down to a 32t ring to keep traction on the rear end (was running a 36t).
  • 1 1
 My arms are longer compared the rest of my body somehow. im 1,83m and i love to have a bit of room to move. i have a specialized status size L now and i love it. so i think this looks great!
  • 6 6
 Dizzle, I agree on all but chainring. By getting a smaller chain ring you both increase the chance of occasional wheelie and spin out. Smaller gear ratio applies more power over shorter distance. Also short cs on climbs, it depends. If you can climb standing then the problem becomes non existent, but off course if we are talking long steep climbs then we may consider it as a hinder. When it comes to going down hill I never considered easyness of picking up front wheel as a bad thing Smile Yeti bikes have my favourite geo!
  • 1 0
 Reading through those comments after my last post an old question of mine was raised once more.

Why Is it that bicyclist think for them is everything different? Its almost like they think because you push down a pedal to propel yourself forward all basic laws of physics change?

Like the stem, tell me one other wheeled Vehicle with significant forward reaching handlebar mount?
Or Tubes. Tractors and mountain bikes.
Or suspension. How is it that Cyclists think the have better traction with out appropriate suspension?
I don't even want to start with wheel sizes... not again at least.

So I think, Trying something out like forward geometry that works so well in all other types of 2wheeld vehicles (moto guys spend millions of dollars for R&D each year) should long been done as there must be a reason and an advantage in it...

btw...I Tried it, It feels great but I would have also prefered a short stem in addition on it. Their forward geo AM bikes have about the same wheelbase as Yetis in an comparable size... @Waki Wink
  • 1 1
 If a longer top tube means you can get a shorter chainstay and maintain stability I'm all for it. I'm also for anything that makes any part of the bike lighter AND stronger like a shorter stem. The fact that short stems look tougher is a nice bonus. I don't like the lack of standover that the Mondrakers have. OK I can't do pancake tables anyway but I don't like knocking my knees on the top tube when I try.
  • 1 1
 I disagree with the first part depending on the trail and bike setup using a short front end uses muscles in your arms that are stronger than when you are stretched out using a longer setup. This position also causes you to stretch forward using back muscles and in some body types putting more pressure on your chest and therefore lungs this can be easily seen riding a road bike verses a downhill bike. In your second part your right, it is more stable length wise but I would argue width wise as in side to side it's less stable in that a good rider can drift without breaking to rebalance In case of a fall. And in the last while bar rise and angle is important your forgetting about stem angle or bb hight in relation to overall bar hight and finally stem stack hight. We've argued once before long ago about something similar.
  • 1 0
 Tbh mate, a shorter bike means your using your legs to hold yourself not only up, but holding your weight back too. I saw this first hand with my mate who bought my summum frame off me, he had the same issues as me for getting knackered during a run and his legs not been able to pedal as well as he'd like. He now rides a large myst and is far more comfortable. Dirt magazine are also always complaining about bikes been too small. Pretty much every review says the bike doesnt come in a size big enough for anyone over 6 foot
  • 1 0
 i took my trials bike to a LBS and asked him to take the rear cog off and change some spokes, he looked at me and said "what am i supposed to do with this" i said to him that i could to it myself if i had the tools, he pointed me in the direction of the workshop, so i walked out, invested in some tools and now i do my own mechanics, and my friends aswell.
  • 2 0
 Personally I think bikes have been too short for too long! I look forward to seeing 1200mm wheelbases popping up more often on trailbikes and seeing large frame DH bikes reaching the 1300mm wheelbase (this new forward geometry bike might be pretty close). My dh bike is 1210mm and I use it for everything (uphills as well) after you get used to it, it poses no problems and only benefits!
  • 1 1
 aidy - proper neutral riding stance is about having as pretty much all your weight on the pedals as possible without dragging the bars, regardless of a kind of bike you are riding. Most common mistake is to hang on the bars as we do it when we are scared. logan - We have such wide range of movement over any bike that we can both stand high on bike as well as we can be in half squat with seat touching the chest. Differences in bike lengths are small in relation to our bodies. Stand in front of the table as you would on the bike, Summum is approximately 2 inches longer than any other average DH bike, stretch your hands 2 inches forward and watch how little it does to your body position. James Wilson was once selling an idea that shorter stem is better for pedaling uphill and that few centimeters make a difference in pedaling stance... When it comes to strength and power generation, you operate with numbers of 4 inches or something to impact body motorics. Bike fit hates that idea...
  • 1 0
 I offer this challenge to you waki take the table your using for reference put a cinder block or other heavy Item on the edge of the table stand in front of it like on a bike pick up the table an inch off the ground from a stretched out position then move two to four inches closer and examine the effect on back abdominal muscles and your arm is it more difficult to lift or move I'm referring to leverage in this challange, also how many bikes/ setups in different styles have you tried?
  • 1 1
 Logan, I have owned 9 different bikes of different kind, geometry and size and had longer rides on at least 10 more. After I learned to ride in balanced neutral position I stopped having trouble with "getting used" to the bike. Sure I like certain geometries, often for reasons I cannot explain, but if I got to some sweet riding place and someone gave me his second bike that would be too small or too big, Id find my way to ride it well. As to your challenge I just made it and I am quite unimpressed. We are not riding bikes statically at leadt we shouldn't, longer reach makes it easier to move around the bike, you get better control over weighing the front or back wheel, it is easier to jump (if tricks are no object), then it is absolutely fantastic on boulders and large obstacles where you need to shift your weight fast. Uphilling is just better. The only reason to ride shorter bike is styling the ride, tricks and all sorts if hoofing around - stuff requiring manouverability instead of stability. Anyway you must admit that the argument that long bike is bad for weak people is down right lame... Why do anything if not to excell in it?
  • 1 1
 Ah now that I think about it, we don't hold handlebats as a weight in our hands, we push or pull them so your experiment is a bit off...
  • 5 0
 I've hear that mondraker has bearing problems. Anyone else that's owned one can chime in on this and give me input. I'm buying a new frame soon and really like the summum. Even tried a few at highland and liked the way it felt but don't want mechanical issues. May consider 27.5 in. if no bearing problems. Anyone....?
  • 2 1
 Ive heard a lot of sh*t about mondraker, but i live in Spain and mondraker is a big brand around my area, I know to guys who are sponsored and another 3 who just simply bought them, I brought up this topic, and they all said that they love the bike and never have had any problems with it, So I believe they must be good bikes, and mechanicalwise they should be just fine
  • 2 1
 owned one for a season.

its a totally race bike, the best bike i never rode.

every week i needed to tight up all bearing screws tough.

i was riding park every single days ( 10 laps a day ) so a lot of riding.

and the frame cracked after few months.

so i had a brand new frame, straith away Smile
  • 1 0
 Mine did a set of bearings in a year. Including 2 weeks in the alps. Used every weekend in british mud and slop. The 2010 one i had had different hardware that rounded off easy. I believe they have changed to regular bolts.

The summum is a wicked bike. If your a confident rider it will skip over anything you point it at. I wasnt good enough for that bike.

Wicked bikes and super light for an ali frame. Cesar rojo (who designed the summum) had his built up at about 32lb last year.
  • 2 3
 @russelltinka ive heard the tunrer dhx is the easiest bike to keep and requires little maintenance. Never owned one myself though
  • 5 1
 If I wanted the "easiest ", I'd get a unicycle. No links, one wheel, no headset. I asked about the Mondraker. But hey, thanks for that info, someone might have wanted it.
  • 1 0
 A friend of mine has one and he has never said a negative thing about it and she's pretty light too. If I was in the market would definitely consider the Summon.
No a different note. Whats up "PA37"? Late night??? LOL.
  • 1 0
 One of my buddies has one and says he has to tighten bolts in the linkage from time to time, but at least they are easily accessible. other frames make it a pain in the ass to get at bearings in the linkage.
  • 1 0
 So no major problems, that's good. Will be taking a good look at at them this summer. Thanks guys.
  • 4 0
 Looks like a really nice set up! Really good discussion of the set up and logic to arrive at the various decisions too which is really interesting for us mere mortals. All around good stuff!

[The pedantic part of me would like to have the phrase "27.5" wheels" eradicated from the PB dictionary. 650B is a more accurate description of the inbetweener size]
  • 2 0
 27.5 bugs me too. Its only 25mm larger than a 26. Likewise its bug me if it was an inch and a half bigger than a 26, because then I'd have to call 29ers 28.5s
  • 1 0
 You probably should. Many 29er labeled tires don't even achieve 29" diameter. I used some bonty jones xr's that were labeled 29 x 1.8 but in fact were 28.2" inflated diameter.
  • 7 3
 The diameter of the wheel is misleading, what matters is radius because that sets the relation between axles, BB and ground, particularly BB drop and chain stat length. And that aspect isdifferent for 650b vs 26 by 12,5mm. That is enough to be felt in handling but does it make a difference between night and day? Then grip gets improved by a larger contact patch but that becomes a grudge in sticky mud. Riding a 29er in sticky mud is like pedalling on velcro. The bigger the obstacles the less the attack angle matters and more job suspension does. That is all bollocks anyways, because Jerome Clementz is shredding big time while he is at a technical disadvantage by riding rims of medieval width, thus he must run higher pressure to keep the tyre on the rim, therefore he encounters more rolling resistance than guys on modern wide rims. Vouilloz says 650b cuts one 1s every three minutes, I am sure thaf optimal pressure cuts more... Yet JC still wins! Wheelsize is overrated!
  • 4 1
 Mother fuckers!
  • 1 0
 @WAKI
The size of the contact patch is dependent solely on tyre pressure.
  • 3 1
 So 26" tyre at 30psi, has same patch as 27.5 at 30psi? Same tyre at same pressure on 27mn internal width rim has same contact patch as when put on 19mm rim... I dare to differ mohaha!
  • 1 0
 It will be the same size, yes. P=F/A
  • 2 0
 This is why wheel size should be based around rim size (like with motorbikes) and not overall diameter (which varies due to tire size!).
  • 1 1
 Under lab conditions and a treadmill/wheel drum yes... in the real world no the contact patch varies with the terrain. On rock very little tire contacts because the rock resists the weight of bike/rider, on snow/sand/mud however a large amount of tire makes contact because the terrain is so soft. It cannot support the weight upon it until a larger area is supported. In terms of floatation on soft conditions, the wider of tire and shallower of the contact patch angle wins, which is why Fat bikes use 26 x 3.8 to 4.8 range tires, which inflated are about 29" in diameter. The reason its a 559 rim being used and not a 584 or 622 rim has to do with physically needing to pack the wheels and inflated tires into a bike that still fits average folks. Surly for example has their Krampus which is called a 29 plus, because it uses 3" wide tires on 700C rims, which inflated are nearly 31 inches in diameter. But the smallest frame size they offer, still has over a 30" standover height, and a 43" wheelbase, and that's with a rigid fork. A Small size GT Peace 9R, also with a rigid fork bike had a standover nearly four inches lower.
  • 1 2
 tea addict - if only my father had a chance he'd die convincing the car industry to run very narrow tyres on all sorts of cars because grip relies on friction and the formula for friction does not include contact area... be careful with formulas and reality
  • 1 0
 Not too agree with waki but your statement is in my opinion untrue it isn't just pressure it's also the profile of the tire As well as it's overall width. The rim width changes the profile of the tire if you put a max is holly roller on a 24mm rim vs a 32mm rim the profile and type of grip change, also deeper profile rims thickness in tube, and yes size of wheel as well.
  • 2 0
 My Factor R gets the same problems tighten everything before you leave. My back end was literally flapping coming down from the Twrch Trail so you could say I was Twrching. No but seriously I check the pivot bolts and everything on mine. I never want to see my back wheel overtake me.
  • 1 0
 I just built my summum team frame on the weekend and put the 10mm stem on it just to ride it around in the basement. It is different, but I can always change it out to the 40/50 funn I have off my old session. I got a medium which is still longer than large session that I was going to get. The suspension is very linear like a dw link which is good. Any dw link bike I have been on pedals nicely and decends like it is on crack. Just have to get rid of the snow now!
  • 2 1
 Hey man maybe it just feels very linear but actually it is not. You can see its linkage graphs here linkagedesign.blogspot.pt/2012/11/mondraker-summum-2013.html ; and see that the leverage ratio is not linear at all; it is more progressive than most of the other downhill bikes.
  • 2 0
 under the 3th pics says :

"For a World Cup racer, Markus is quite restrained with his bar height, running 10mm of spacers under the crown and a 38mm, 780mm Renthal bar"

38mm?
  • 1 0
 Sorry 4th pic
  • 1 0
 I'm on my forth pro team summum in just over a year and find the latest forward geometry version to be truly amazing to ride ,super grippy and awesomely fast ,but you do need to grab in by the horns as it is a true race bike and like a f1 car is only working right when it's near it's limits .cant wait to get my hands on the 2015 27.5 version as I'm sure it will be even more amazing.
  • 1 0
 Hey guys, i need some help here. I`m planning a trip to Whistler next year, probably i`m gonna bring my bike too, so in that order can you provide me with some good shops around whistler and vancouver? Is here anybody working for Hostway web hosting company, we can try to manage a bike trip together if you want to Smile
And nonetheless, the forward geometry of the bike is really promising, the only thing that i`m worried about is the change and the ability to fit with this frame, hopefully it doesnt feel so strange as it looks..
  • 1 0
 I have a 2012 team issue large frame and so far no problems , I decide to change to the 0 degree to -1 and what a diference better control turning and going down. best bike ever.
  • 2 0
 Hey guys how much you wanna bet their gonna start putting out 27.5 and 29er DH bikes next year? Thats what i said this past season and now look
  • 1 1
 I love my summum 26"..... i dont see any reasons replace my actual bike! ... seems to me that 27.5" versions would be harder to corner (singletracks with tricks corner and not much space)......by the way..... im only a pilot... if the industry decides for the 27.5" bike.. we all lose (my opinion)
  • 4 1
 That's so not a "standard Renthal stem"
  • 2 0
 I spotted that too, it appears to be 30mm length, if you compare it to the similar way it bolts down to the new Hope 30mm: http://cdn1.coresites.mpora.com/dirt_new/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/EDH_3711.jpg
  • 2 0
 They seemed to have ditched the "so slack the fork wants to bend instead of go through its travel"-geometry
  • 2 0
 I wonder when the 2014, 2014, 2,000 four teeeen? Marzocchi Moto C2R shock will be available..maybe 2015?
  • 2 0
 Looks cool, well see how it performs
  • 2 0
 Gotta say she's a pretty clean lookin' ride. Y'all could do a lot worse.
  • 2 0
 New stem from Renthal too
  • 2 0
 looks sexy tho!
  • 4 3
 This bike makes my penis happy.
  • 1 0
 where can we found that moto lap timer??? Smile
  • 1 0
 it's not a moto timer, it's a swimmers timer designed to be worn around the finger.
www.metroswimshop.com/product.90000.htm?gdftrk=gdfV25409_a_7c3098_a_7c11784_a_7c90000&gclid=CKvvo_jPkL0CFURlfgodUAkAbw
  • 1 0
 zip tie not cut flush, sloppy work ts ts.
  • 1 0
 You can really cut 10 s with an expert tuning?
  • 1 0
 I would think the original tune would have to be way way off!
  • 1 0
 Anyone else notice the prototype Schwalbe on the rear?
  • 1 0
 It's not a prototype it is the new magic mary in first ride compound (extra soft).
  • 1 0
 with fat tires it's becoming a 29" !!!
  • 1 0
 Was gonna happen now were waiting on spezilized
  • 1 0
 I would cut off someone's head for those wheels.
  • 1 0
 I like it
  • 4 4
 no 26", no party
  • 2 5
 Its the same with slightly larger wheels, pinkbike full report it needed Smile
  • 7 1
 If you actually read you'd find that there are more changes than wheels.
  • 1 4
 not really a fan of the 'forward' part. but bike still looks dialed!
  • 7 0
 Neither was I but then I got a chance to try Dune few weeks ago and damn was I surprised. The bike really didnt even feel longer compared to any other and overall first impression was amazing. If you ever have option to try, do it, you might end being surprised as I was.
  • 1 6
flag jumpman2334 (Mar 13, 2014 at 12:53) (Below Threshold)
 i dont really ride with anyone or go to demos, so i wont be trying it out.. even if i did like it, i wouldnt buy it. im not down with proprietary stuff (0 reach stem)

i mean its a pretty small thing to complain about (since its just a stem), but thats still enough to keep me from buying it. i like to have a selection and be 'choosey' when buying parts Smile
  • 4 1
 I must say I really like the concept, I havent been able to properly try it out but it looks like you must gain so much control over the bike Razz
  • 3 1
 That's the key maxram, more stability and more control. I could test the foxy of a friend this last weekend and was very impressed. At first all that stuff about the geometry and the stem seemed like a bunch of bullshits to me. But I was wrong. I felt really good riding it.
  • 6 9
 I never had a problem with 26"
  • 2 1
 That doesn't mean you will with the 27.5" version...
  • 1 0
 i got neg propped telling my opinion?
  • 1 0
 Of course you got neg propped! This is pinkbike after all...the place where hate and discrimination breed! Join the pinkside learn to hate! lol
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