Specialized Go 650B

 They are too busy trying to exhume the guy who invented the wheel, gonna sue his corpse for 1 billion gram's of dust.

 This just in. S is going to sue all of the Manufactures in the Enduro Series for using the word Enduro. Also, I would kick a kitten for a 650b Specialized Enduro.

 bikes are fun.

 650b makes sense on a stumpjumper, just not on a Demo.

 the headline should read "Spesh admits they were wrong about 29ers"

 Pretty good deal for who bought a 2014 26" Specy ....

 Pretty bad deal actually, it will be hard to sell their bike now. Not to mention dealers with 26 specialized.

 I would give 650b a chance on a Demo, but I'm 6'3" and my riding style is not exactly nimble.

The Stumpy 29 Evo and the Enduro 29 are fantastic bikes. 650b seems like a downgrade from the 29ers for XC and trail bikes.

 preferences and physics aside, i really hope 650b hurries the f up cuz the amount of crap spewed from all our holes on wheel size on pb could create a bike park.

 Hahaha lol was thinking the same....

 I purchased this years S-Works Enduro 29 without ever having even demo'd it. This was at the explicit advice of my shop (Mojo Wheels in Denver) who already had a sale - I was going to build an S-Works Enduro regardless of wheel size.

I can honestly say that the 29 inch wheels are fantastic. Granted I am 6'2" and strong, but I have no interest in riding anything but 29" from here on out. With carbon fiber everywhere, there is less gyroscopic force in my wheels and frame than there was on my previous Enduro 26, and the increased contact patch and roll over is insane.

I am typically the kinda of guy who credits rider skill with 90% of the end effect, but now that I have ridden the Enduro 29, all I can say is that that bike made me instantly faster. I have zero problem popping it off of lips and small hits. Its the fastest, non-DH specific, bike I have ever ridden.

Headline should read: "Stupidity of the market and customer resistance to change bogs down marked progress from Specialized and demands 650b"

 " it makes no sense to have the three choices of wheelsize available for our customers" this is why the 26 group is upset. Everyone says to ride what you want but there truly is pressure to ride what THEY want. With that said, I just bought a covert 26. At least some brands still offer what I like. (Also own a 650b).

 When u buy any bike, you're riding what they want.

 Not necessarily, but I get your point.

 Well Said KPJ1230. I couldnt agree more. I still have my 26er but am having way too much fun on my 29er. Cant wait for a couple of years from now when everyone forgets about this petty wheelsize crap.
The people that are knocking it, havent tried it. And im not talking about taking your Dad's 61 degree head angle, hard tail, 29er around the block on the sidewalk (hitting your 1ft plywood driveway jump) and coming home and saying " this bike sucks".

 with all due respect most mountain bikers don't even know about the existence of Pinkbike, nor care about wheel size. they go to a shop, buy a 4-8 k bikes and ride it for fun, not for wheel size. i have a covert 26 and a 29er enduro and i love both, both makes me happy! ride what you like and dont preach. Specialized need to make money, this is what make allot of people able to pay their bills.

 @prodigy1 are those 2 enduro specific or can you use them for Mountainbiking too?

 Do Specialized have their own legal team? Maybe just like they have a whole floor of guys doing saddles and an army of people building wheels......... There could be a building full of lawyers specialized in the field of being dicks

 we all saw this coming, lets focus on the fact that it has shimano brakes!

 There is one glaring fact that a lot of people are overlooking here..."Our" sport is in a rate of rapid acceleration at the moment evidenced by you the buyer driving sales and "platforms" like never before. We have carbon, hydraulics, magnesium, etc.. etc.. and we are seeing the "tail wag the dog" in some respects. I mean when was the last time you saw the likes of Santa Cruz and Spesh "respond" to market outcry like this?! We may be wrong but...Good times baby!!

 It wouldn't matter what wheels they put on a Demo, it'd still be a poorly designed, shock breaking heap of shit that shouldn't have made production

 Ii think that was actually devinci

 I guess I'm now part of a dying breed of 26" Stumpjumpers, makes me feel like a bit of a dinosaur.

 steezus, i can't vouch for the devinci however there were more than 15 broken shocks from Demos this race season in nz of both Cane Creek, Ohlins and Fox and all breaking in the same way. been happening for years too

 Actually, I was trying to respond to the original comment, "Are they going to sue all the other brands for using 650b now?". Because of how devinci tried to sue trek for having a similar suspension pivot earlier this year.

 Quit trolling..... DEVINCI didn't sue, it was the patent holder for Split Pivot Dave Weagle, and rightfully so...

 Specialized playing catch up. Would've bought this if they weren't so stubborn in the first place. :S So my hard earned cash went to Cube's 2014 Stereo HPC Race.

 Don't be naive. They weren't playing catch up, they weren't going to enter the 650b market until they had wheels and tires made up.

 And how have you come by this information Mr Poozank? Specialized could've bought out their 27'5" bikes this year. Why wait until they've had they're own wheels? Intense were already ahead of the game. Took them a while to realise customers wanted a 27.5" Stumjumper! As was on the market for a 2014 model. But as i mentioned before. My hard earned cash went to Cube in the end.

 Didn't even read the article because I already know what its going to say with the title and picture. I just scrolled right to the comments. haha

 So you mean people go to both to get off?

 Pretty poor marketing attitude "For us this isn't big deal ...".
So kicking and screaming we'll make some 650Bs even though we really don't want to - big "siggghhhhhhh" from Sebastian.

 Lol at a Rob Ford reference on a bike forum.

 Also poor marketing: "it makes no sense to have the three choices of wheelsize available for our customers"

 Wait let me get this right... we are mad at the mountain bike companies for making 650b the "new" thing, and yet when a company is slow to jump on the bandwagon we are mad at them too? Give me negative props I don't care, just seam like a bunch of crybaby haters-

Good looking bike S

 Sebastian is wrong ,on the letter sent to the dealers Specialized made clear that they are keeping the 26"

 i think i have to do the same meme but with the: "Specialized will never go to 650b"

www.pinkbike.com/photo/9692085

 "it makes sense to have no choices of wheelsize available for our customers"

 Except the customers who are choosy...with actual money.... largely don't buy 26ers anymore. Specialized was already phasing them out for 29ers before 650B exploded in popularity as an alternative. The majority of mountain bikers do not self-identify as freeriders, or enduro riders, or dirt jumpers, or downhillers. They identify as cross country trail riders. Contrary to what some of the children (in age or maturity) on here would like to believe.

 The new Demo due on august is going to be 650b compatible . Just to make sure they don't go 650b all the way

 Yeah marketing-wise this is very poorly executed. They could have just named it something else, for instance resurrecting the Pitch name.

"The new Specialized PITCH, for riders more concerned with fun than results. We at specialized firmly believe that 29ers and more efficient and thus faster than smaller wheeled bikes, but many riders just want to have fun. The all new specialized Pitch allows us to combine agressive, fun 26 inch geometry with more efficient 27.5 wheels to create a new playful line of bikes. If you live for racing, try out our stumpy and enduro 29 bikes, but if you want fun look no further than the Pitch!"

As is, the message undermines their values, tarnishes both the reputation of their 29ers and the hype of their new bike, and of course insults the customers...

 You kids wanna know what crap marketing is? The 650b wheelsize.

That's why they held out as long as they could. Looking forward to some monster fast 29" from Specialized in the future.

 Whatever. Hate all you want, but 650b is *almost the same feel as 26. I bet this bike RIPS.

 I give spesh props for not jumping on the 650B bandwagon right away. I'm glad they where honest enough to say that 27.5 doesn't make a big enough difference compared to 26 but since everyone else has tossed the 26's out spesh really had no choice.

 "The new Specialized PITCH, for riders more concerned with fun than results. We at specialized firmly believe that 29ers and more efficient and thus faster than smaller wheeled bikes, but many riders just want to have fun. The all new specialized Pitch allows us to combine agressive, fun 26 inch geometry with more efficient 27.5 wheels to create a new playful line of bikes. If you live for racing, try out our stumpy and enduro 29 bikes, but if you want fun look no further than the Pitch!"

yet... Nino Schurter wins World Cup XCO overall 2 years in a row on his 650B... and 26 still dominates DH.

I know Nino is only one guy and the engine matters most but it is still fun throwing it out there like that

 Mugen, resurrecting the Pitch makes zero sense. It was a redundant option for low- to mid- range trail bikes. Additionally, why would you give the same bike a different name just because it has different wheel size? We're not all Santa Cruz hippies here.....

 D8: also, the customers who are choosy with actual money don't complain on pinkbike about new standards. they go out and buy it. speak with your wallet, is what the industry is telling us. everyone dont hate me for telling the truth - i'm just an observer.

 " I give spesh props for not jumping on the 650B bandwagon right away"

props for what?.. not actually knowing what the market wanted until other brands lead the way then ending up with egg on their faces for not being able to squash the 650b movement with their perceived brand dominance?

 Guys - they are EXPLICITLY stating that they still believe 29 is the right direction. The market and their retailers are the ones asking for 650b. Ride a good 29er and tell me it didn't make you faster. All of my riding buddies are becoming fast converts now that I showed up with a S-Works 29er. Instantly faster.

 The kids on here are too cool to ride those 29'ers. Even though you're right, a good one is night and faster if you know how to ride.

 KJP1230....I'm definitely faster on my Tallboy and love riding it. However, after trying out the bike park scene, I knew I needed more than 120mm of travel (100mm in back) to ride there confidently on all the man-made features. I bought the new Pivot Mach 6 (27.5) and holy moly, what a blast. I'm definitely not as fast overall but it's a lot more FUN *most* of the time. I've only owned the Pivot 3-4 weeks but I've only ridden the Tallboy once since the Pivot arrived....that was yesterday of a screaming fast XC loop in St George and it was the perfect bike for that ride. I'm having my cake and eating it too!!

 Great comment. This place is full of moron kids who you just know ride like pylons.

 Good is debatable. Had an SJ FSR, didn't care for- for me there are better designs like VPP and DW.

 SC's VPP's are a disaster.

 No my opinion, your shocks. Go and check the leverage rate graphs.

 @moabRover
If you compare the 29, 26 and the new 27.5 stumpjumper frame, you will see that the 27.5 is adapted from 29 version, not 26...
For me, 26 frame still looks better, more balanced than 29 since top tube is more straight, less flabby and head angle seems slacker on 26...

And from a R&D point of view, spesh is a quite conservative company, capitalizing a lot on their name and overpricing its products.
As you told, their only big move was to try to impose 29 wheels for all disciplines except DH. Their marketing teams makes you believe that it was a huge effort to produce a dialed geometry, but take a look at the other brands which sell 29ers long travel bikes (banshee, trek, scott, etc...), they got a dialed geometry for 29er too, enough for winning the EWS.
A lot of brand are able to produce dialed geometry for 26, 27.5 and 29, and doesn't do the big mouth about that because a good geometry is mandatory and the very basis of any given bike you will try to sell !!!!
Spesh suspension kinematics is the same since 20 years, shocks and fork are still standard market products (except cosmetics). Each time they tried something innovative (futureshock for instance), they blew it and gave up next year.
I've got far more respect for cannondale which takes more risk and keeps on innovate even through their financial issues.

 @gnarlized -

I think we should get clear about marketing hype. Calling 650B wheels "27.5" is marketing hype. They are not 27.5. Depending on the tires you use, 650B can actually be quite close to 26. Companies use "27.5" to make you feel like your getting the best of both worlds. They're selling the perfect middle ground, halfway between the fun of 26 and the rolling characteristics of 29. They've deliberately selected a term that they knew would catch attention - speak to those who think 29ers are too ungainly but don't want to ride unfashionable 26" wheels.

And I didn't say Specialized adapted their 26 bikes to go 650. But if they did adapt the 650 Stumpjumper from the 29r, that shows just how good their 29r really is. Plus, I have to say that I'm impressed that you can tell just how good a bike is by looking at a catalog picture. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to ride a bike before deciding how it will perform.

By the way, Specialized never said that Trek, Santa Cruz, Cannondale, etc. produce crappy bikes. And no one is saying Specialized is the only company that knows how to manipulate bike geometry. However, Specialized is one of the companies that does it well, and they have produced some amazing bikes that take full advantage of the 29 inch wheel size. Take a look at what other companies have on offer. You'll find relatively few that have bikes as well regarded as Specialized's current 29r line-up, regardless of wheel size.

 @moabRover

I didn't see any hype in calling a wheel 27.5 or 650b. For instance, Giant add clearly showed were 27.5 or 650b sat relatively to 26 and 29 wheels, and there was not "in the middle".
Keeping the things simple, one cannot argue that 27.5 or 650b wheels are not in between 26 and 29. If so, yes, they have their own advabages and disadvantages that can be scaled in a proportion of smaller and bigger wheels diameter for reference.
If you look at the stumpjumper 650b frame above, you can observe that there is a spacer between the fork crown and the top tube. This spacer does not appear neither on 29 frame, nor on 26. That make me said that the 650b front triangle is the same that the 29 stumpy front triangle... For people making such a case of their dialed geometry, I find that a bit trivial.
I cannot tell only by the look if one bike is better than another. I just told that "For me, 26 frame still looks better, more balanced than 29 since top tube is more straight, less flabby and head angle seems slacker on 26..." for me... looks better... Did you get it ? I only talk about the way they LOOK in my own opinion.
"You'll find relatively few that have bikes as well regarded as Specialized's current 29r line-up, regardless of wheel size."
Yes, this is the advantage of being a big company with a huge marketing budget. One can at least told the same for Trek and SC, and many others...

 Some facts on wheelsize

'26' = 559mm = 22" rim
'27.5' = 584mm = 23" rim
'29' = 622mm = 24.5" rim

Add 4" of total tyre height (skinnier XC tyres) and you can call them 26, 27 and 28.5 or add 4.5" of total tyre height (fatter trail tyres)and you can call them 26.5, 27.5 and 29 - the fact is that 29ers have never had 3" bigger wheels than 26ers.

 @gnaralized,

What evidence do you have to back your claim that Specialized gets good reviews only because of "a huge marketing budget?" That's just a crutch to support your emotion-based argument. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they make great bikes with dialed geometry. The company wants to make a great product and is filled with people that love to ride. You might not like them. You might choose to ride something different, but it's not some evil company with backrooms filled with cigar-smoking monopoly men.

A fairly recent Pinkbike survey asked Pinkbikers which brand of bike they rode and which brand of bike they would buy next. Specialized dominated. As expensive as high-end mountain bikes are, even in the face of marketing hype, people are going to demand a great product.

Consider that the company was one of the originators of the mountain bike and mountain biking as we know it. Now, consider that the quality of their products (and that of other significant manufacturers) actually helps create an industry that supports a market that allows smaller brands and component makers to thrive. Now, consider that without companies like Specialized, MTB racing and technology would be nowhere near the level we enjoy today. Why have such a negative, knee-jerk reaction to a company that has made a huge difference to the sport?

 Were is any of your evidence for that load of crap you just wrote moabRover?

Please give us the history lesson on how Specialized improved mountain biking?

When I was younger and didn't give a shit about much I rode, have had 3 of them, as I got older and learned more about the history the sport I loved, I learned what Specialized really is and don't support companies like that. If you do, more power to you.

 Moabrider - pardon for not reading the rest of your stuff, but the original comment is one of tge best things I have ever heard in the wheel size debate. If there only were more people like you. Respect and cheers!

 Two Tone,

I'm so glad you asked. First, I've been to Specialized HQ and around their team trailer, and I didn't see any cigar-smoking monopoly men. I looked really hard, but I didn't even find ashtrays, glassware for a bar, or a single stray smoking jacket.

But you're right, what was I thinking? Specialized has had nothing to do with creating or improving the sport. They weren't one of the first companies to build dedicated mountain bikes, and the Stumpjumper hasn't been a top tier (and often class leading) mountain bike since 1981.

And smaller manufacturers should curse Specialized. Seriously, you never see Chromag, Race Face, Loaded, Industry9, E Thirteen, Hope, Formula, MRP, etc., etc. hanging from Specialized bikes. Those companies derive no benefit from larger manufactures like Specialized that create thousands of opportunities for mountain bikers to upgrade, replace, and customize components.

Plus, how lame is it that over the course of decades Specialized (among others) has sponsored some of the most inspiring athletes across all MTB disciplines? That's not helpful at all. Who needs it? We certainly don't want any more Sea Otters or race events. And if I have to watch another video from the Coastal Crew, or from Darren Berrecloth, or Matt Hunter, or Mitch Ropelato, or Troy Brosnan, or Martin Soderstrom, I'm going to lose it. They're not awesome or inspiring.

Your persuasive "load of crap" argument really got me thinking. When "load of crap" is combined with the multiple exclamation points from gnarlized, you have an airtight case. It's inconceivable that Specialized actually makes great bikes. And all the product of the year, bike of the year, glowing reviews from media in the US and internationally, athlete reviews, and product sales are meaningless.

 You want to support be my guest. I don't support this kind of crap
knobblytyres.com/specialized-sues-small-canadian-bike-shop-name

 That's half the story. You forgot to mention that within days, Specialized decided to drop it and Mike Sinyard took the time to visit the shop and it's owner to apologize. You might not know this, but if you own or license a trademark, you have to actively defend it or risk losing it. Plus, Specialized actually has to license this trademark in the US. Their license agreement might require them to take actions to preserve the value of or even build value in that brand. If you don't actively police trademarks, you diminish the value of your own intellectual property.

 Moabrover - do not even tryto defend Spesh with that. All that you say above is very true but this lawsuit is 1st class crap. Saying that they have to follow patent law is like all that talk about kids getting bad grades because of disfunctions. He didn't make it to the next grade because his dad is a perfectionist. All written below is well known to everybody: Roubaix is a town in France, a finish of a prestigius Paris- Roubaix road race famous for cobble stones that requires bikes specially built to deal with the vibrations, and Spec built such bike and took a name to create conotations to market it. Any lawsuit against anyone on the Planet that also usesthat name is an utter failure of common sense, si big that it proves nothing else than naive stupidity. The immediate reaction of the cycling community, including some of the sponsored riders indicates that clearly. Sinyard going there was necessary but it was just a PR formality. He should apologize to his employees in the first place and clients right afterwards. That was idiotic.

 Waki - I'll end my comments here generally as I started. The opinions posted by several here are funny to me. I don't understand the emotional, negative reactions to the introduction of a bike (and what could be a really fun bike made in response to consumer demand). I also find it curious when such strong negative views are expressed without considering or understanding the whole picture.

Patents and trademarks are very different types of intellectual property. Trademarks based on geographic names often have to be cultivated by the trademark owner. Creating "connotations" around such a name and associating it with a certain product is precisely how enforceable trademark rights are created and maintained. Your argument and rational above are just incorrect. They ignore centuries of trademark/branding laws and the everyday activities of companies around the world (including the company Specialized has to pay to use the Roubaix name in the US). In fact, the existence and history of Roubaix place an even heavier burden on Specialized to police and enforce the mark if they want to preserve its value for their product.

"Olympics" is a trademark that is heavily policed by the owner, even though the IOC has nothing to do with the Greek originators. Same with "Le Mans" for both racing and auto products. A company owns the mark "Moab" for use in association with products and services related to off-road mods for 4x4s, and they sought to enforce the mark against Jeep. How about "Santa Cruz" for bikes?

I'm not defending Specialized. Specialized came to the right decision on its own, albeit too late to avoid some real fallout. I'm trying to add an informed perspective. Too many comments here completely ignore realities of the commercial and legal landscapes large companies have to navigate.

 All that you write about regarding patents may be perfectly true and sounds reasonable but it is utterly irrelevant. The role of having a patent or trademark is to protect intellectual property, but the purpose of such protection is to get profit from it. It is one of the ways of keeping the cash flow for the company and it's share holders. Simply put : it is just a tool. But this whole action because of such obvious connotation and lack of common sense led the company to an easly predictable fk up. They simply lost money, not much, because most of us would buy a V10c from Hitler, but that law suit simply brought a long term loss. If I were one of major shareholder of Spec, Id be on the phone to Sinyard after seeing those news. Also in the court that would be a case that would be lost by Specialized anyways, because of such particular connotation. It's not like the owner of the cafe called it Stumpjumper. And All that, ethics aside. Itwas an idiotic move, typical for large companies with too big distances between various departments. Lawyers and PR guys did not meet that day. I hope they were at least riding, not on a workshop with Tony Robbins or some business philosopher telling them to be organized, creative and hard working in tune with their inner self and their family life.

 Having said above, I love the bikes Specialized makes. I like how the ride and how they look, particularly their 29ers.

 If you want a good laugh, search "The North Face vs South Butt." You never know how these things will play out.

 Spec caved to public outcry, not to some moral highroad. If you think otherwise, well then......

 No no, you are on PB now... you will listen to the opinion of every being on here and thou shalt only purchase and ride mountain bike wares that have been approved by 107% of the readership in a forum style vote where everyone is certain to agree with each others valid and reasonable arguments. And you WILL comply and enjoy it...

 Preach bigtim!

 They were working to see if they could patent it first, before releasing it and suing everyone.

 No they weren't. They had 650b proto's years ago but didn't think they were worth it. The reason they canned 26" is because dealers weren't ordering them. If you want to bitch go talk to your LBS.

 And why weren't dealers ordering them? maybe, just maybe because no one was buying them? maybe?
So the dealers are in with the marketers and media and Putin and the Pope on this grand conspiracy…

 If you look at the competition Specialized held out the longest. Had no option in the end.

I don't give a crap. It's their 29" I want.

 Bmc and Niner are also on the "29er only" wagon

 I hop their jigs are optimised for 142+ rear hubs.

 This is irreversible. 650b is replacing 26. Parts availability alone is reason enough to join the herd. Besides, everybody is loving these 650's and they are buying them. Why lose sales over 1.5 inches.

 It's less than 1.5"

 Don't tell the ladies that

 You sir have nailed the question, and I'll answer. The mountain bike industry is market driven, ei the industry must deliver what the market demands. Companies that don't deliver what the market demands loose sales.

To answer the question: we forced it on them. They responded because they had to.

 It sounds to me like the market forced their hand. They went and designed 29ers that they (and many other people) thought were better than 26 or 27.5, but the market is demanding 27.5.

It is a business after all. It wouldn't make sense to lose market share by being stubborn.

 Okay, but I've got the feeling they started first to force the market with all their 29-is-the-best propaganda, which seemed to be a big marketing manœuvre to get more visibility and demarcation against the growing number of young, innovative brands.
It looks like it didn't worked the way they sought to (thanks to Giant, especially), and now they try to get back the market parts they lost in introducing 27.5 in their range...

 I agree. "the market" doesn't seem to be anything like the demographic of pinkbike posters, or at least the portion of the demographic that posts comments. But while you and I and every other pinkbike poster absolutely knows without a shadow of a doubt that 26 or 29 is the ultimate, too many people in the rest of the mountain biking community were busy going into their bike shops and demanding a new 650B/27.5 bike.

I cannot imagine a bike more fun, fast or capable than my FSR 29er. Specialized kept most of the agility and playfullness of a 26, with a significant increase in grip and momentum. I don't care if the guy at the trailhead on the carbon 650B "quiver killer" thinks my bike is so 2013, but apparently enough people do care to make Specialized think twice about jumping on the bandwagon.

Good for them. They absolutely nailed 29ers and were rightfully proud to tell people. Now, they can bring 650B/27.5 to market using a lot of existing 26/29 research so the cost is minimal and the profit is substantial.

 They're phasing out 26ers because the market wants 27.5"/29" and honestly, as a company in a capitalist economy, they would be stupid not to comply. The real question is why did the market shift in that direction? I mean, weren't the manufacturers and the bike media shitting down our throats nonstop for the last few years that 27.5"/29" reinvents the wheel? You can't really blame the bloke who goes into a shop and order what he thinks is the "current best".

Personally I tried a 650b, with an open mind, for a few hours and while I did notice that it did have some pros/cons over a 26", the difference was so small that I really didn't get the buzz around the new wheelsize. I totally understand than in a competition setup, it is probably the difference between winning or not... but to have the average joe flock in shops and order a new bike with the new standard... really? So you're going to drop 6000$ on a bike so your 3 hours casual ride with buddies last 2h48 instead? To me, it seems that the only winner here is the manufacturers.

I think the average joe (and that includes me, I'm not talking from my high horse), spending a few hundred bucks to get classes with a competent coach and/or riding harder trails or simply just riding more... would make a MUCH MUCH bigger difference on our riding level for a fraction of the cost, than spending 6000$ on a new bike but I guess that dropping 6k$ on a new sled is much easier on the ego than admitting we're slow because we suck at this.

 @ PLC07, couldn't agree more. IMO the answer to your question, "why did the market shift", is that a contended consumer with a ego that is satisfied by riding a 26er (or whatever is last year's technology), is not necessarily good for the bottom line. That seems bleak, but what's good for the bottom line can be good for society (employment, research, philanthropy, etc...)

 I agree to a point. Just replacing a 26" or 29" bike you got last year is crazy unless you are really unhappy with what you got. Some people could be like myself and ready to replace an aging 26" bike (on the 5th season) and looking at all the options.

I want to get the best bang for my buck and more importantly something that meets my needs. I don't know what wheel size that means right now, but I do like having options to consider. I don't know if I will feel or even benefit from any change (650b or 29), but I don't curse the increasing options in general.

I understand it is not convenient or even financially practical for any company to offer all options. I do see the demise of 26" from so many builders as a bit of a loss, but it's not a complete step backwards in my mind either.

 Mtb industry and us as the consumer does what we've always done, choose the middle ground. You look at all the varying standards over the years and we always end up in the middle. QR or 20mm bolt through how about 15mm. 150 or 135 rear how about 142.
1.5 or 1 1/8 head tube how about bit of both. I could go on, hell even xc or dh how about 'enduro'! For 'just riding' which is what most of us do never go for the 'new' standard as someone will always bring out an inbetween and that's the one that will stay.

 A very true statement about mountainbiking in all of it's aspects.

 That's what she said.

 I believe it is actually less than an inch bigger in diameter.

 Meh, l don't even mind this, means that there'll be some good deals on 26" stumpy evos

 True, that's why I dislike the 27.5" moniker. It mistakenly implies that the size is equally split between 26" and 29". I don't remember the exact figures, but its closer to the 26" values than 29".

 Depends on the casing... skinny 650B are low 27s, wide are pushing past 28". That's with only 4/10ths of an inch in casing width difference.

 thats the same with 26", a big 26 will be pushing over 27. the actual difference between 26 and 650b alot less than people think, the only difference i felt on trail was that i could lean the bike rediculously far over, like bar dragging some swithbacks, which i dont know whether to attribute that to wheels or to the rest of the bike being awesome

 Wait and Copy would be better for todays Specialized

 I vaguely remember a specialized guy making the comment that if you believe that a bigger wheel makes the bike better with certain characteristics, (like roll over ability etc..) then it would make sense to go to 29" wheels rather than 650B. I suppose that makes sense if you look at it from that perspective, but how long could you pretend to ignore the 650b revolution? With all of the hype being circulated about how great the 650B wheel size is, and how quickly every manufacturer jumped to it, Specialized (as a large company) couldn't simply ignore it.

 Hell throw enough casing at the rim and you get 26 labeled tires that are 29 inches or more in diameter. Give it a couple years and we'll be seeing Suspended Fat bikes from all the brands currently producing them. We've already got one production suspension fork on the market. I'm sure Specialized has plans for an Fatboy Enduro model already.

 Bikes a bike Just get out and ride what you have, leave the debating to the armchair engineers.

 that might be a reason NOT to buy one: one of the biggest advantages of 650b, is greater ground clearance allowing frame designers to add BB drop to their designs. It looks like there's a small amount of BB drop here, but less than I would like. Surprising really, first time I've EVER looked at a Specialized and raised an eyebrow at the geometry: say what you want about Specialized, they tend to get those tiny little tweaks to geometry that make a bike great right.

 I had the same thought....see how it sells, then next year develop a ground up bike for the goldilocks wheel.

 I think you are right. It seems to be unique to this model and it makes some sense they might have to do that. The 2014s are still fresh and I doubt they had enough time to make several new molds for the different sizes in such a short time. This indicates to me that they saw real drops in sales to other 650b makers and they are trying to stop the bleeding. That or they really aren't sold on the 650b idea, and they are putting in the least investment just incase it is a fad. It would save them on all the tooling for sure. But if this all sticks ,2015 or 2016 I'd bet we see new frames without the spacer. They have to realize this will look bad to some people. Maybe they don't care as long as they pick up whatever they think they are losing now.

 How good is your German?

 I was thinking along these lines. What are the wheel/tire manufacturers doing? How long will they continue to make the 26" size for non DH wheels? I haven't paid much attention to it, but have any of them stopped making 26" wheels/tires? What about the guy that bought last year's Stumpy 26"? if he destroys a rim two or three years from now is he going to have to buy a DH rim for his Stumpy?

If I were buying a new bike with 26" wheels this year, I'd want something that could also run 27.5/650b. Future proof it so that I could continue to run the same frame, but with a bigger wheelset if that is my only option.

Not that I keep bikes for more than a year. Pshh, that's for the common folk. I've got a million dollar salary so my supermodel wife and I buy whatever whenever we want!

(heads on over to the PB classifieds)

 They said somewhere that they do it solely because of the market pressure and customer demand - well after a year or so I can understand that to be true. Where as companies like Santa Cruz or Cube were talking of big customer demand before anyone rode a bike with those freaking wheels, before anyone has hardly seen one.

 People had been riding SC bikes with 650b wheels for years prior to them actually making a designated bike for them.

 @waki.... SC etc talking of big customer demand before anyone had thrown a leg over one is, to me at least, a great example of Rational Expectations theory (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_expectations). In its simplest terms, if the manufacturers expect that 650B will be "the next big thing" (See Jeff Steiber talking at Sea Otter last year ago as a great example www.pinkbike.com/news/Intense-Jeff-Steber-at-Sea-Otter.html ), decisions will then be taken that tend to bring those expectations to reality.

 Yes Reformed Roadie, those conversions were fantastic indeed. Joe Graney "encouraged" them a lot. Look this guy put 29" wheels on a Heckler- not sure if joke or not but equally brilliant isn't it? forums.mtbr.com/santa-cruz/heckler-26-now-29er-894136.html
How smart it is to limit the travel of a fork and of a shock then ride with 12mm higher BB just to have a "better" wheel size - Innovation! True step forward! You can't stop evolution! However natural selection might take care of those who did not limit the travel... Oh how I would like to be in the workshop where a qualified mechanic and rider is being asked to limit the travel - why? Because I want to mount bigger wheels - why? -because they are better - why? - should I go somewhere else?

 Waki, you find the most ridiculous example of an idiot doing a dumb conversion and base your argument on it (the guy actually cut his fork brace!)
For a more intelligent example: reviews.mtbr.com/650b-bike/5
I have not come across an example of someone who put 650b wheels on a blur TR and didn't think it improved the bike. Same for the previous Heckler and the Superlight. Depending on where you ride, 12mm of more clearance might be a good thing for a bike with an exceptionally low BB.
So yes, it is a step forward.
Now go back to drawing titties on handlebars!

 Hehe unfortunately for your argument I do own a Blur TR and I do live in place where we have very rocky trails causing potential problems with BB clearance. And the answer to that problem is: 36t bash/taco and pedal timing. The latter is a lot to ask for, I do realize... Blur TR is on the edge of being too stable for the given purpose due to low BB and slack head angle, therefore adding larger wheels just makes it an overkill. Also most VPP2 bikes have trouble with low hanging lower bearings, but it is not the problem of the wheel size but a slight misundestanding of a term "pivot location". Solving those problems by upping the wheel size is just silly. So is denying the fact that people do those mods for no rational purpose, getting no actual gains, doing it solely for fashion compromising bike handling characteristics. Ah and if you have personal issues there is always PM...

 Have you tried it with the larger wheels, or are you simply dismissing it with out experience?
Adding the larger wheels is not done to solve a clear issue with the linkage, or pedal strikes, but to have better rollover and traction from the wheels! Those are either added benefits or a compromise, depending on your preference.
Now that you can get Minions in 650b, there really is no downside…IMHO of course.

 No, wait a minute, what is the deal here? The quote that I copied and pasted above has now changed to say "makes no sense"... WTF? I thought it may take them a few years to backtrack on a commitment to 26 , but it took only about an hour.

 No I haven't tried it as my experience with 29er, tells me that it is not worth any investment because A) Traction bit is bullcrap, as it depends mostly on tyre pressure, tyre volume and thread pattern, and for that the rim width and tyre sidewall staibilty play bigger role than the rim diameter. If Schwalbe succeeds wit their new tyre system, that argument will be out of the window completely. The befit of lower pressure will be so huge that wheel size will play virtually no role. Then B) roll over the bigger the obstacle, less it matters, I do not believe anyone can distinguish improvement of roll over on 650b as to 26. Roll over depends to greatest extent on tyre pressure and suspension setup /quality. All you actualy get is lower BB drop giving inherent stability, therefore you can run steeper head angle, therefore you can have a bike that acts that bit better on high speeds with next to no compromise at lower. IMHO

 And that is what I ultimately meant: if you limit the travel of fork and shock in order be able to fit larger wheel, you loose the roll over benefit directly, in total you are probably rolling over slower than on smaller wheel. Then traction, if the bloke doing it truly sets up his tyre pressure right, he uses tims with 23mm+ inner width then maybe he gets a fraction of gain in that department only.

 If it also gives any light on tyre patch coming from the wheel size I just drawn it in CAD. If we say that a 2.5" tyre is a perfect circle at super high pressure, and after releasing a bit of pressure and sitting on the bike, it sinks 1cm or so, the increase in length of contact of 650B wheel is 3mm on 162mm on 26" . Off course that is pure speculation and I should use a proper bike, but that simple inadequate test shows massive disproportion. To make it funnier give that 1cm sink of tyre, the attack angle difference is fascinating as well. Taking the same attack angle of 30degrees at which a tyre meets an obstacle, 26" wheel takes a 35.3mm obstacle with that angle, while 650B take 36.9mm, which is 1.6mm difference. Taking into account that most rocks are round, that... I mean... with all the variables encountered by a biker on a trail that is just ridiculous to truly believe that a jump from 26" to 27.5" gives anything. It is all in your head. And it is all so very necessary for sales.

 No travel limiting required.
Hey, whatever floats your boat…it rides nothing like a 29er. Just like a 26", but better…IMHO of course.
Now that there are wheels around, it wouldn't hurt to pair a wheel set and try it, no?

 So those pictures of HansDampf hitting the crown and seat tube during bottom out are fakes? Apart from Joe Graneys blog there was also an article on Bikeradar, both saying DO NOT DO IT here's why

 As far as I remember people were putting 2.1 crossmarks to not need to limit the travel... Great aggressive tyre for a real man ;D

 well, then don't…
The fact you are following that Bikeradar article is sad.

I'm done here.

 Oh you found a tiny nice hook to judge me on and climb on top of me, any will do in such a long discussion - way to go I am too taking beefy jerks on bike trips, rich in protein and well tasty!

 I actually could sense the roll over difference between 26 and 650b when I thought i would not, especially ad the 26 had better suspensions and more travel (hence sag).
Now will it revolutionize my riding abilities? No, but in some case it will marginally do improve my riding (but not my skills).
So my next bike will be a 650b yes, but mostly because the development on 26 in is unfortunately over. Unless you live under a rock, you should have noticed that as well.

 How come 650B makes any progress in anything? Someone changed size of something by a tiny bit, and well 26" will come back, Smaller companies will pick it up and market as "fun trail bikes" where as 650B will be grounded as "bikes". After they market it, many people will pick it up, they will go ride those "renaissance" wheels and say that wow, that bike is so nimble! it is so much easier to jump! In the same way you talk of roll over which is a yet another subjective opinion, more than probably a suggested one, just as any other hype induced thing. So don't shout that much about progress and living under a stone, because just as everyone of us converting others to do shit, time will make us eat many of our words. You may eventualy start charging your vocabulary for shouting variations of words: "26" hipsters!" when that comes back.

I can hardly find less important things in bike design evolution than 650B, 15mm axles, 11 speeds or suspension development after 2008 (2014 RS Pike got to a point where Fox36 RC2 was in 2008, before Fox screwed it up Vpp2 is nowehere better than vpp1), as opposed to wide bars, wide rims, fade free brakes like Saint, dropper posts, narrow wide chain rings (rendering clutch useless), new tyre casings and patterns (triggered by Enduro that everyone laughs at).

It is just a diameter and I pointed out clearly that there are many other issues, even in the wheel alone. And that "try it" is yet another bubble, the very last thing your argument hangs on. I've been there with many things, air springs, 10 speeds, clipless, I bought a 29er, tried few other 29ers, and you know what, it is just another bit making a bike, just like 650b. And then it is just a bike - how's your skill of looking ahead on the trail?

 The worst damage that 650B, the wheel size debate has done to a mind of a regular rider, a bloke enjoying the sport for his own reasons, not having that much time to contemplate on the actual power of bike parts, of meaning behind the hype, is that it pushed him to believe that changing a tiny thing matters a lot. It made him zoom in, analyze half relevant factors and forget the whole picture. And the whole picture is only there when you get into the moment when you put yourself on the line on the trail, when lungs are burning, legs hurt and hair on forearms raises when you dare to brake less. So the poor bloke, instead of finding ways to get into the ride, through training and effort, he is told (mainly by people on the internet that buying stuff is what takes him there

 Yeah sure i'm influenced by the hype... If that helps you feel better then keep believing it. I know what i've tried, i know to what extend it can be compared and i know what my opinions were before trying. If an architect can understand the roll over is smaller with bigger wheels then i'm concerned by your geometric skills. But that's another story.

 I already commented on geometrical issues above. Peace man, no need to intimidate each other with such crap. Sorry for showing off. Have a good weekend!

 Well, Evo series of their bikes are made for people who would gladly see even lower BBs. Good bashring and pedal timing solves most problems with bb clearance issues

 Pedal timing is something most people would hate specially if they paid 3300 dollars.

 Heh yes nobody told me I need to ride well to take advantage of that bike! 8500$ and they tell me I need to ride fast for the geometry to click and that means I must look far ahead! When I pay that kind of money I deserve getting a product allowing me to look right under the front wheel, just like I used to do for years! 11kgs of carbon and Ti, a Pushed shock, and they tell me that with so slack head angle I should do more standing pedalling to bring more body weight over the front wheel, and for that I must work out - Nonsense!

 Sorry man, i couldnt understand the main idea of your comment. If you could explain it differently that would be great

 The main idea is that pedal timing is an important skill to learn, at least for those who live in rocky and rooty places. Also for people who like low bikes that rail corners fantasticaly. I live in super rocky place andI always get angry at people complaining on too low BB of a modern trail bike (like Blur TR of mine. It is isualy not yhe fault of the bike but of a guy that spins way too much on granny gear and to top that he just can't time pedal strokes.

Nobody complains on DH bikes that they easily allow and sometimes even force you to pick up high speeds, and that among many other skills require a skill of looking ahead and managing uour position over the bike, or you die.

 I am being a little bias to be honest, I’ve been struggling with an Stumpy Evo for quite some time now hitting rocks while going downhill, uphill I don’t care as much, as you mention pedal timing is the key, going down the hill is another beast specially in the Sierra Madre (which is an extension of the American ROCKY mountains), in my case I bought a 26 inch Stumpy that I had to time the pedaling almost for every rock on my trails, this made me lose lots of momentum while riding and also lots confidence of my riding skills, longs story short, I just found out 1 month ago that the Chainstay was for a 29 inch bike, this makes the BB to be at 305 rather than 335, believe me it sucks!!, I am just waiting for the replacement bike from my LBS or as they say just the new chainstay. I hope this “repair” changes my mind about low BB bikes. i have some pictures on my profile.

 I mean, all within reasonable borders, 305 for a long travel dmfulk suspended bike is stupid. Chaibstay fron a 29er, damn...

 Haha yep agree with you there

 Same

 Stick with the 29".

 @jclnv, ive always ridden 29 and love it, id like to demo them side by side

 26" is so close to 650b but 29" (as you know) is something different altogether.

The Evo 29" is simply nuts IMO. The best all-round mountain bike I've ever ridden.

 This is something you could just do right now.

 I could, but I want the rest of the bike community to acknowledge...no, admit that my preference of wheel size is supreme.

 Why do you think that profits and a great bike can't be made concurrently?

 Because profits are about quantity and best is about quality.

 So, BMW for example, they make high quality cars by almost every standard.

Is your claim that they don't make any profit?

 Don't use car analogies.
Car companies routinely lose money in the sale of the car and gain it back in the repair end.

But since you mentioned BMW:

Their shares dropped 4.8 % in the third quarter of 2013. because they are investing in future models. (Reuters).


Mercedes Benz got rid of their quality control checkers because they wanted more profit.

Toyota ramped up their production volume levels and now they are having quality issues.

If specialized truly believed that 29ers are the best, then they wouldn't care about 650b. But since they love profits, they will make a size that's inconsistent with their previous paradigm and sort of show you their lack of integrity.

 There is no problem with making convertible bikes, other than using heavier, flexier and expensive replacable or sliding drop outs.

 Well its not quite that simple, as the relationship between the head angle and bb position change with wheel size, But that's workable

 damnit, misread. looks like its standard cable actuated.

 Looks like a hacked 29 evo, but I really hope that is not the case.

 In theory the chaninstay only needs to be 12.5 mm longer than the 26 inch bike. A 432 mm chainstay doesnt sound too bad for a tweener

 Specialized didn't do anything to kill 650. And I don't see how an honest evaluation of 26 vs 650 vs 29 is bashing. People supposedly don't want marketing hype, but they apparently don't want honest views either.

Consider the context of those interviews. Media/industry reviewers want to know "why go 29 and not 650?" - wouldn't 650 be a better choice for long-travel enduro? - if other companies are turning to 650, why go 29? Specialized invested the resources to create 29rs that perform better than many 650 offerings. Maybe they designed these bikes with a no compromise view - no need go 650 if we can design 29rs that maintain all the "fun" handling characteristics. In that context, what would your answer be? If that was my product, and I knew how good it was, I wouldn't hesitate to promote it. If you want the full benefit of larger wheel size, 650 is too close to 26, especially when you can create awesome 29rs.

Specialized is not killing its 29rs to go 650. They're killing 26 and going with 650 for their smaller wheel size, and 650 is still closer to 26 than to 29. For product differentiation and innovation, leading with the 29rs makes a lot of sense.

 Another one of the few good posts in this thread.

 Like a politician running for office.

 Intense already hit the $10k with the new Tracer carbon.

I love how people knock house made parts as somehow bad. Like you need to have different brand components or your bike is junk.

What matters is performance, weight, etc., not the fricken label. As for price, welcome to the free market. If they can sell at that price, more power to them. There are plenty of other choices people consider more practical and attainable.

 Thanks, I'm glad to see that I can simplify my bike buying process to one golden geometry number. I was wasting my time looking at HTA, STA, WB, BB height, stack, reach, etc. to find the bike that meets my needs and riding style.

 Eh my Uprising has a 430 chainstay handles a dream. On second thoughts scrub that I still Roll on 26s so I'm a luddite. Don't have issue with 29 or 27.5 I just happen to like the bike I have, it's better than I'll ever be.

 Haha, obviously that was a tongue in cheek comment. The main reason to go smaller wheels is to shorten the stays compared to 29ers, most other numbers are not limited by wheelsize (except stack i guess). But having tested the enduro 29 with 430mm stays: that bike is incredible. I'm not saying 430mm is too long, I'm just saying you really need to test the enduro 29 as you could be making a mistake getting a different bike just because "smaller wheels are more playful" (Hint: not always true).

 450mm on the Stumpy is perfect.

 As an Enduro 29 owner I agree. I keep looking at shorter travel bikes but they all have much longer (as much as 2.5cm) chainstays than my 155mm bike.

 I was tempted by the Enduro when I was looking for a new bike but at 5'4" 29 was maybe too big and I couldn't find a small to try for size I'm not going to drop £4k+ for a bike that may not fit or suit me the other option was 27.5 Bronson, but TBH I like the Evil I doubt i'd be troubling any podiums on any wheel size and enjoy my bike.

 Yeah i wouldnt be too worried if i had just bought en evil: bikemag tested like 20 bikes, and the evil was the only 26er, and they said it was probably the best on test both uphill and downhill... Really puts all this wheelsize debate into perspective!

 I don't think they make an e29 go a size small. I'm not so sure about on the stumpy, but the enduro should defiantly come with grid2 rear, Sx front tires. I feel like 420mm chainstays are ok if you're riding a bike that's slightly to big for you because you're between sizes. I'm slightly to tall for the large frame I ride and would like the top tube to be around 15 or 20mm longer.

 Having now seen the geometry on this (435mm stays and a 68.8 head angle coupled with short-ish reach and wheelbase values), this is a complete hack-job, terribly executed bike. Stay well away and grab the enduro 29er if you are aiming at all-mountain or enduro riding...

 I agree it's a hack but I hope they at least keep that rear centre length on the new Stumpy next year.

 They actually do make 22" BMX

www.factionbikeco.com

 The ice has melted. The beer is warm.

 Not if you have a refrigerator

 As if you counted

 was just thinking the same thing. they are so "meh" about the wheel size. it would be a pretty good troll if they really were staying firm on the "29 is better" ...

 you do! or you wouldn't of clicked on the link and commented