The 2014 MTB contest season is up and running and the FMB has announced a new format with 5 events in the Diamond category along with others in gold, silver and bronze. So riders will head back into the arena to secure a win and the prize money that comes with risking your body. If you're the overall FMB champ you'll get a cool CamelBak trophy and some cash as long as your body can take the beating from contest crashes, and for sure you'll crash and maybe get injured? It comes with the territory, injuries, but is the risk worth the reward? After all these gladiators are doing it for fame and glory for their sponsors, right? They get looked after by contest organizers or sponsors, so prize money is just icing on the contest cake isn't it? Well the truth hurts in many ways, sponsors help out and contests provide hardly any money for winning let alone competing at these events. Kyle Strait won Rampage for his second time with a suicide no-hander and won 25K. Then again Logan Binggeli, Mitch Chubey and Mark Matthews ended up in hospital with huge medical bills to try and sort out. Martin Soderstrom came 2nd at Crankworx and won 10k along with a broken tib/fib. People say riders know the risks when they ride contests, sure they do, but at what costs? You don't need to be a pro to be injured riding, it can happen to everyone, anywhere at anytime. So let's ask who's responsible for the cost of injuries that go with riding, is it the rider, the sponsor or the contest organizer? When Zink flipped the Oakley sender for 5k for 3'rd along with another 5k for best trick was it worth it? Sure you say, it was rad! Zink has made 2 impossible tricks at Rampage, but what if he'd crashed with his pregnant wife watching? At this level a miss could be worse than just broken bones, a wheelchair is a real threat if you don't make the trick work. He competed while having his hematoma drained daily and with only one practice drop off the Oakley sender cause that's how Zink rides, all in or nothing. He is also one who doesn't hold back about contest payouts, "
Pay is what it is and you can't complain, but we are paid far below our potential and other sports." So when an event like Rampage, possibly costing over $1million to stage via NBC Sports, with $100k in wooden features and photos selling for ads at $1500 each, shouldn't the riders be paid more for the risks? With that being said let's talk to some of the riders about the risk and what the contests cover if you're hurt while competing.
Kyle Strait won Rampage and $25k in 2013, but what about the riders that didn't land rubber side down?
| Pay is what it is and you can't complain, but we are paid far below our potential and other sports. - Cam Zink |
First off it was clear from all the riders that contests don't provide any medical coverage! WTF you say, a rider hucks himself off jumps and features and if hurt has to pay for his broken bones as well? Yep, sorry, thanks for showing up, next.Sure they ask you to sign a waiver so they don't get a lawyer's letter and require the athlete to have his own insurance in case he's injured riding their contest. Truth be told the organizer doesn't check to be sure the rider is covered in a contest that involves prize money. That makes you a pro when money is involved and not a backyard jam with your bro's. So who helps you out if you're injured, the rider's sponsors, sometimes if you're lucky? Most riders rely on medical insurance that covers you in contests where prize money is involved. When I contacted the pro riders about their medical injury costs it was stunning to say the least. Most agreed they'd like the contest organizers to provide medical coverage and the organizers believe it's up to the athlete to be covered. In the case of Mark Matthews who was injured at Rampage last year and now faces $40k in medical bills, Red Bull asked him if he had coverage and because he bought travel medical coverage he thought he was. Oops, just not when prize money is involved as is the case of Red Bull Rampage. Mark just had a fund raiser to try and cover some of his outstanding medical bills and will soon have an on-line auction as well. You can donate and help him out here:
www.markmatthews.caLet's hear from some of the high profile MTB athletes who compete and have been injured trying to win some cash. Let's not forget that payouts aren't deep in cash after trying to get on the podium at these events around the globe.
Darren keeping the rubber side down.
Darren Berrecloth who runs his own event; Bearclaw Invitational is a Red Bull Athlete and just finished back surgery in LA. Red Bull provided the cash for his medical bills and put him in touch with a specialist. Costs..."
Not Cheap" After missing 3 Rampage events and 3 Crankworx contests the Claw believes it's the athletes responsibility to have coverage. Red Bull stands behind their athletes.
Logan airing out the middle Oakley Icon sender.
Logan Binggeli rides for KHS Bikes and was injured at Rampage after flipping the Oakley drop and breaking his femur. He had to be air medevaced out to St George,
which cost $10k for a 7 minute ride. His 3 days in hospital/surgery was $35k as well as another $15k for X-rays, MRI and meds to
a total of $50k. His medical paid part, Logan paid $7k himself and KHS kicked in cash as well.
| The cost of winning is very low compared to the costs of losing and I think Mountain bikers are underpaid, but I don't regret competing, and will be back at Rampage 2014. - Logan Binggeli |
Mitch being tended to post crash and pre $12K Helicopter trip.
Mitch Chubey rides for Morpheus Cycles and was another Rampage 2013 injury. He was air medevaced out as well to the tune of $12k for his 47 minute flight to St George. $28k for 3 CT scans, 7 x-rays and an MRI while in the hospital. Mitch has been injured before, $60k Euro's at Crankworx Les Deux Alps and $19k at AT's Showdown.
Mitch believes that he's had over $500k in medical bills covered through his Pro Athlete policy over the years. He would like to see the athletes covered when they compete at events, but understands it's hard when you're in Europe, USA and Canada.
Martin put it all on the line for his podium finish.
Martin Soderstrom place 2nd in the Red Bull Joyride at Crankworx 2013, but didn't even get to stand on the podium. He broke his Tibia and Fibula on the last feature in view of the finish line.
His hospital bills in Canada are over $100k. He pays for pro-coverage and has Red Bull as a sponsor who look after him. He says it would be great to get insurance with your FMB license and hopefully they can figure that out in the future?
| You can't dodge the bullet in a dangerous sport, but insurance is worth the money you pay. - Martin Soderstrom |
Back flips don't get much bigger than this one from Kelly McGarry.
Kelly McGarry who back flipped the massive Canyon gap at Rampage 2013 knows about injuries. He has coverage through New Zealand BIKENZ and pays 2k NZD for his 6 months in Northern Hemisphere. McGazza has had a broken collarbone at Red Bull Joyride and a broken leg at Rampage. He destroyed his elbow in Austria at the cost of $7k and has claimed medical costs for the last 8yrs. He has medical coverage because,
| I would never want my family to deal with my medical bills if I get truly injured while riding/competing. - Kelly McGarry |
Always the showman, Andreu lays out a huge Superman as the sun sets on training at Red Bull Rampage.
Andreu Lacondeguy is well know for going huge at events on his YT sponsored bike. He has had his share of crashes, but seems to get up and walk away from most of them. He says contests don't really check if you're covered or not and says you're gonna get hurt when you do 50t flips, so who cares! Apart from a $4k dislocated shoulder in USA, he's remained in good shape. He is a Red Bull athlete and says they are the best sponsor you can have along with his medical coverage for riding.
| God bless America and their shitty medical situation. No big bills for me, I like to land on my wheels! - Andreu Lacondeguy |
Jamie Goldman competing at Red Bull Rampage.
Jamie Goldman has had contests at his home in Bend, Oregon over the years. UDUG was the best grassroots brodown around, but because of insurance problems he had to tear out his jumps and close it down. While competing in Austria he suffered a concussion and was held in hospital for a week and paid out $5-7k from his own pocket. He says riders should have medical coverage.
| I think you're a Boner if you don't have medical coverage in this sport, don't risk losing you life savings over one small mistake. - Jamie Goldman |
Two of the biggest tricks ever completed in the sport of mountain biking, both by Cam Zink.
Cam Zink now rides for YT bikes, but has nailed two of the biggest tricks at Rampage with a 360 off the Oakley Sender in 2010 and a massive backflip from the Big Dawg in 2013. Put any bike under his ass and you've got a winner! While competing at Rampage in 2013 he was having his huge hematoma drained daily in hospital and didn't get the practice time in for his run. In true Zink fashion he dropped it once, then a couple of run ups before his start, then it was game on. Between the $40k for knee surgeries, he's nearly broken his back twice and had to
anti up $10k before a Canadian hospital would let him leave after rupturing his spleen. He believes contests should provide some sort of "
gap" insurance to cover riders who may get hurt while competing because the contests makes money off the riders.
| You shouldn't be forced to have insurance, but as a professional athlete in a dangerous sport you'd be a moron to not have insurance coverage. - Cam Zink |
Mark Matthews enjoying the UnOfficial Whip Off World Champs at Crankworx.
Mark Matthews broke his femur while practicing at Rampage in 2013. He was taken by ambulance to hospital in St George and had surgery to the tune of $40k. He had purchased medical travel insurance before going to Utah, but was denied coverage because he was in a contest where prize money was involved. Mark never even got a chance to be in the running for prize money because he didn't compete, he was only practicing. He has appealed the ruling and submitted bills to BC medical, but has been left owing most of the $40k. Mark paid $270 for a policy that didn't cover him at all.
| It's stupid not to have medical coverage, but you need to research them to insure they cover you while filming or competing. - Mark Matthews |
The bottom line is the prize money they hand out to winners at comps doesn't make you rich and those who are injured are basically on their own unless you're lucky enough to be a Red Bull sponsored rider. The contests don't provide any medical coverage and seldom check if the athlete has coverage. If you're a gambler you can roll the dice and hope for the best. Most pro's understand the risks and make sure they're covered. But what about the rest of us who make those quick trips to ride in other areas of Canada or to the land of medical mayhem, the USA. A simple trip with the Bro's to ride the new Burlington indoor bike park could cost you 10's of thousands if injured? The costs for coverage is cheap through BCAA, a multi trip- 30day max is 100-200$ PER YEAR, but depends on your age as well. The pro rider coverage is another $40/yr and if you have a known injury or medical condition add on $20. So for around $250 bucks you can ride, compete and damage your body to a value of $10 million in coverage. So why risk it all for the little rewards these contests may hand out to the winners while the losers could go home broke for life? Just get complete medical coverage and ride smart.-Words and photo by Malcolm Mclaws
I admit I do not know as much as you about your system but I have seen and heard nothing but horror stories from it apart from one benefit of marginally shorter wait times.
But yeah, had to visit hospitals many times due to bike related incidents, tore a shoulder ligament a couple of years back and I must have either been lucky or had the right physiotherapy since I have no lingering pain or movement problems and would say my shoulder is 99.9% what it was. I am VERY thankful of the NHS!
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/9/10/13/enhanced-buzz-wide-5417-1378832798-28.jpg
The reality is ask yourself when you get injured and need an operation do you really want some crap surgeon (even a trainee)-as in the NHS or in Australia in a public hospital potentially doing a substandard job or choosing your own surgeon and getting optimal management in a timely fashion........you get what you pay for. Pay a bit extra for insurance even in countries with "free healthcare" after all it is your only body/brain and for most of us it is meant for work as well as play. And as shitty and boring as it sounds read the fine print-it is really depressing to hear a professional athlete thought his travel medical insurance covered him in a professional contest.
So a great article which should be a wakeup call to all of us.
The next step would be to let us know which companies provides professional medical coverage. Boring but better than being in debt to the eyeballs or even being bankrupt.
And to mark matthews out there hope it is going well-I'd love to buy one of those photos on your website for above market value to help you if you are interested (PM me if so)
media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1c/ec/c4/1cecc4c9304db66084b1db41ead63ff0.jpg
That Axxe dude is a complete moron. If you want an example of how f*cked up our medical system is, there's a position at every hospital called the chargemaster. That person decides how much everything costs to the patient with no formula used, which is why prices vary drastically from one hospital to another. Also look into the reasons why NIXON (that should tell you something right there) pushed to privatize healthcare. Spoiler: actual recordings of him reveal he did it only to create another marketplace for him and his buddies to get massively wealthy.
We're all dead.
But if you ever get a bill, always hit up the hospital and be honest. It's fairly common for a hospital to drastically cut the bill down if you cannot afford it. They're jacking the price up in the first place so they still profit and at the very least, they get the money owed to them as opposed to nothing at all.
...ah forget it..
I remember reading this on Reddit and being shocked. Declaring yourself bankrupt at 24 because you got cancer. What kind of first world country allows that to happen? As if having cancer in the first place wasnt stressful enough.
www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1tugnm/i_never_truly_understood_how_much_healthcare_in/cebog6q
Many americans seem to live in this fantasy world that their healthcare system is the best in the world because they have some of the best doctors. And yes they do have many of the best doctors. But most people with or without health insurance will never ever be treated by them as they charge millions of dollars. So in the end they end up potentially being screwed, just to be treated by doctors of the same calibre as any where else in the world.
It's kinda similar to how they think they have the most free economy in the world because some people get obscenely wealthy while the wealth is stripped from the poor and middle class. I have travelled all over Europe, Australia and North America and never ever seen homelessness and poverty like there is in US cities.
And it all happens under a ludicrous premise that "we could get to where that guy is, we just need to work for it!". Its an amazing cycle where people actually defend a system that is built around f*cking them over. And their University system...amazing. Coming out of education with $200k of debt around your neck. Yet people actually defend the system. Incredible brainwashing.
We may pay a little more in taxes, but that peace of mind sure is priceless as all Canadians, Brits, Australians and Europeans are happy to enjoy.
There's all kinds of subsidies. It is too bad many catastrophic plans (low monthly/high deductible) are now not acceptable.
Sadly, usa vets get the short stick, very very poor coverage.
This has been the case under several presidents now.
I'm hopeful Americans may page dr. Benjamin Carson to clean up the mess.
Remember, the major mandate that affects those that are not self employed...(usa)
Ie, employer sponsored (pooled) plans, got delayed by the democrats after 2014 midterm elections.
That's when the low information voter crowd will feel it, personally.
Not sure if the delays have been legal, but there you go.
Then, you will see employer sponsored plans go away...and as obama just said this week he will bail out the healthcare companies if/once they go broke.
Usa va system is what non miliatry can expect until someone like a dr. Ben Carson can come in, get rid if the establishment republicans and open up a free market system, competition across statelines.
Wondering if I'm getn close now that I make $30k/yr, but I make too much fir subsidies, and I'm not seeing the $2500 sAvings obama promised me?
I heard that carl Marx discussed the class based system but I'm curious what the parameters are?
And yes, leftist controlled state screwel systems rob students while making the unions fat and happy, tenured teachers...
We got to get back to trades/tech schools.
Which of those credentials makes you think he is qualified to sort out a healthcare system? Being a doctor does not mean you have any idea how to run a medical system? Being a doctor has nothing to do with running a hospital. Its like saying Aaron Gwin should be in charge of Specialized because he rides their bikes well.
Also, free markets are an illusion that are every bit as ridiculous as out and out communism. Free markets dont work.
I think it's shocking that with all the money and resources red bull have they leave riders injured during rampage to pay their own bills. They should at the very least insist all the riders have suitable insurance (and check that they actually do) - or even better provide insurance for the athletes...
The UK's NHS might not be perfect, but you can turn up any hour of the day with an injury and you will be seen and treated free of charge.
It does annoy me though that surgeries like the fitting of gastric bands and operations of that nature still come out of taxpayers money, but whatever. It's 1000x better than the US system.
And the world health organisation ranks the USA's healthcare system 37th! Below the UK in 18th, up to now all I hear for the US system is no fact just personal opinion.
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/
Youre massively wrong on Obamacare. You yourself would benefit massively if your parents couldnt provide one for you. Dont be naive. Obamacare is a right step in the right direction, by raising the bar of standards. People born with something they cant control no longer have to neccesarily be discriminated. Please do your research before you start saying random shit from a Republican political ad. I dont agree a lot of costs have been passed onto Middle class as someone has said, but that is more about taxes in general.
America is terrible when it comes to medical costs and monetization. You have good doctors but the costs for the smallest and easiest things are astronomically high for no logical reason. Also, Medication is a huge profit business (and partly addiction) and the costs in America are stupidly high.
There are data-compiling websites that allow you to take the lowest cost of medication of any legal/allowed nation and ship the prescription to your door, bypassing Straight from America cost, savings 1k+ over sometime, just like price-gouging in the name of branding. My ex's dad had to go to Germany because the cost was exponentially lower and yet technology was higher to get a surgery. He himself is a straight high multi-millionaire and the owner of a successful company, yet he still alone cannot compete with the costs of the skewed medical system because it is so damn high.
America is slowly normalizing imo. Still long ways to go, but things like Obamacare have only improved and otherwised leveled the playing field when beforehand, medical/insurance were unchallenged and therefore had almost free reign of medical costs.
Accidentrisk is high, average health is very poor, constant system propaganda(tv) pounds the lower classes brains. There are the 1% and then there are 345 Mio poor to very poor. Unless your last name is Gates - you are sitting in economy. Your life expectancy is that of an average Morrocan. You will spend your last years under ill health while the system tries to squeeze the last dime out of you.
Obamacare is modeled after the best healthcare system there is, with the best facilities and best staff. It's the Swiss. It's no1, by far. Private insurance scheme. It took a lot of meaningful regulation to tweak over more than 15 years. It so successful that poor are treated for free. Preexisting conditions and exclusion from coverage are illegal.It's not cheap but humanistic, cost effective and is getting cheaper again. Keyword: Federal regulation.
Opinion, talking points, agendized MSM and their pundits playing the conservative patriotic and nationalistic drum of the American way of life created your brain fog.
Read my first sentence again - that's reality and not the matrix. President Obama is one of the great post secessionist presidents. A humanist bringing health to millions. Treat him with reference.
Another lawyer? Lifelong politician? No thanks. Give me someone whom has been succesful in the private sector, or someone who has stood up against the progressive left (naked communist) and the establishment right (neocons).
www.biography.com/people/ben-carson-475422#awesm=~oF7s40hSc2tXOe
Thankfully, our founders provided the usa with article 5 2a to bypass these disruptors of our liberties. Once the mandate kicks in after midterm elections, the masses will come out of hibernation...hopefully. those tmz episodesre pretty good!
Runbenrun.org Carson?
Bud, brain fog and riding a boxcar to fringeland...
Real issue is legislating and regulating big business, care system, rampant military-security-industrial complex racism, segregation and lobbyism and make this dump loveable/liveable for all again.
"but the majority just dont work because they can sit at home collecting well fare and other free benefits".
Do you really think that's the case? Do you think the 'free shit' the government provides to people is all that great? Yes, the government will provide for people, and yes, sometimes its too much, and yes, of course there are people that abuse the system. But to say that the 'majority' of people without jobs are just choosing to be lazy is just ridiculous and uninformed.
Listen to any politician speak these days, and what is the most common thing they talk about? JOBS!!! All they talk about is jobs and creating jobs. Why? Because there is a shortage of jobs. If there wasn't, they wouldn't talk about it so much. There are unemployed people (the majority) who do want to work and simply can't find it. You act as though people who receive government benefits (or 'free shit") as you refer to it, are living in the lap of luxury. Like the government is dropping off big screen TVs, iPads, and gourmet meals. While you can likely get by milking the government, its not an idea situation. Most people, given the choice and the opportunity of a decent job would happily take that job.
Stop being a parasite, if you can afford to spend £2000+ on a mountain bike, you can afford to spend £50 a month on health insurance. Healthcare is a privilege, not an entitlement, especially if you want it if your injury is a result of a completely unnecessary activity.
Stop being blinkered. If you can afford the time to create a positioned that suggests the concept of a national health system is somehow unfair, you should also be able to see that the point you raise is equally able to be aimed at the concept of insurance cover. Insurance is, after all just a group of people all willing to put money into a pot such that if any one of them were to get injured, the others will pay for it and as you say, get nothing in return.
Only will they get nothing in return? No, the DO get something, as does any member of a national insurance scheme; peace of mind that you will not be faced with a huge bill you cannot pay. True for private insurance and national health schemes.
I have to hang out my political washing to dry here for a bit too.
I am happy to pay for street lighting so we all feel safe at night. What's the alternative? Metered lights that you put a dime into which gives you just enough light to get to the next one?
At least there is the greater potential for any money paid into any national scheme to be used to provide infrastructure for the community rather than bonuses and dividends to shareholders and directors. I love the NHS and I am more than happy to pay for it.
I don't expect anyone who doesn't get it will ever get it.
And they are all blinkered (conveniently) to the fact that the vast majority of their everyday life is littered with examples of how they benefit from collective policy then somehow come over all "I'm not paying for what I don't use!!!!!!"
Some things better serve everyone when collectively paid: Defence policy, energy policy, schools, day care centres, libraries, educational policy, policing, infrastructure, highways, environmental protection, water quality protection, the judicial system, garbage collection, penal institutions, national parks, local parks, streetlighting, traffic signals, sidewalks.
And no, I do not mind paying more than I use because the point is it gives me peace of mind that it is there should I ever need it.
Ubuntu.
While Im OK with everyone having healthcare everyone already has healthcare. Go to a state funded hospital in the US and you will get the care you need with or without insurance...maybe not the care you want but you will get the care you need. If youre not paying a cent into healthcare you cant really be choosey though right?
Im not rich by any means and Ive worked my ass off to get where Im at and working harder everyday. Why should I carry the burden of people that are just as capable as me to make something of themselves or do better for themselves?
I have too had to pay a lot more for my healthcare recently, my healthcare premiums in the national Japanese health insurance scheme have risen massively in the past 10 years, from 13,000 yen per month (about 130 USD) to 60,000 (600 USD) that now covers my wife, daughter and me. That's a, what, 361% increase.
And whilst I do have the occasional, "Christ this is effing expensive" moment I will not lie, I am still more than happy to pay.
Why? Because I both a) can (crucial point, I can pay all that and still put food on the table and buy a Banshee Spitfire so who am I to complain, some people in the local city office obviously have trouble paying for their families healthcare) and b) believe in the universality of health care for all, even the stupid numpties who get hit by a truck whilst pretending to be Gene Kelly, quick stepping down the central reservation on their way home from the pub.
It is the universality of suffrage (which is still a long way off) and of universal ACCESS to healthcare that I personally hold out hope humanity can get around to. And yep, while I earn more than my neighbour, I will gladly subsidise them. What goes around, comes around after all. Have a good weekend all.
Yes, here's the problem. WILLING. When I'm paying for private insurance, I decide whether I'll pay or not and if I do, how much I'll pay and what do I want in return.
In a national health scheme nobody asks me whether I'm willing to put my money into the pot or not, the state just takes it from me. People should have the freedom to spend their money the way they want to (and then be responsible for all the consequences).
There is no "should" when it comes to political preference. You might be interested in the "better life index". Check out the tax rates in countries with the "better" lives according to the index.
It appears there are quite significant numbers of people who are willing to, and benefit from, paying higher taxes. They are happy to vote for politicians who say they will tax and then provide services for all.
As I said, there is no should, it is a personal preference. You might want to try living in one of those countries and see how you like it.
www.businessdestinations.com/destinations/shiny-happy-people-the-top-ten-happiest-countries-in-the-world
Not to mention that the following countries have no income tax at all: www.cnbc.com/id/48054006 and I never heard anyone complaining about the quality of life in United Arab Emirates, Cayman Islands or Bahamas...
PS: Nobody prevents you from voluntarily paying higher taxes. If you want to, send your whole salary to the state, I don't have any problem with that. Just don't tell me what should I do with my money.
As you say, some countries have no income tax, such as the UAE. However, it seems to me that you are mixing up "no income tax" with "no tax". The UAE has, according to some of the data you provided in that link, corporation taxes of around 55% which provides the revenue required for the provision of public services. And as for Switzerland, you might like to know that for example, in 2002, the overall fiscal rate was 38.5 percent of GDP. Wow!
Public services need fiscal support, you use them just by living in the country, and if you do not wish to pay a penny in tax then effectively you are leeching off the rest of us every time you open the door onto a paved street rather than a muddy puddle. A true case of pots, kettles and very dark shades of grey.
Because at the end of the day, you live in a country that has public services available to you, and someone, somewhere, somehow, has to provide revenue to the govt to pay for it. And sorry to say it, but if you want to get access to those public services, you gotta pay.
To be blunt, if you don't want to pay for any, then don't use any, but then that becomes somewhat difficult does it not.
I would suggest that if you would like to voluntarily forego all public services, never use the roads, never get your garbage collected, wear a blindfold at night so you do not benefit from streetlighting... etc etc, then go ahead. Voluntarily ensure you never knowingly use something someone else has paid for.
Alternatively, open your eyes and little wider beyond your immediate sphere of experience. We are all, you, I, everyone, prone to being myopic. Have a good Sunday and enjoy the public services you use today.
Yes, that's exactly what I want - if I'm not using a service, I don't want to be forced into paying for it. There are many services I've never used and don't intend to start using (for example social welfare). Or, to be more specific, I want to have a choice whether I'll pay for them indirectly (in form of taxes or insurance) or directly (the full price, but only when I really use them).
By forcing me to pay compulsory health insurance the state is telling me what should I do with my money, because I have no choice, I can't opt out of the public healthcare and go to a private hospital instead, or to travel abroad where the healthcare can be significantly cheaper.
If you want to compare total numbers, compare tax freedom day: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day
The tax freedom day in France is 3 months later than in Ireland. In other words, the amount of time the French have to work for their state is 75 % longer. Is the life in France 75 % better than in Ireland?
@humoroususername: "If every country did it then the Bahamas and cayman islands wouldn't have the income they do"
Spot on. In other words, the rich corporations and individuals would pay their taxes in their homeland rather than on some tropical Island on the other side of the world. That would be great, wouldn't it?
I understand your feelings Sir, I too balk at some of the things that I pay for, but do not use, yet I suppose we will never see eye to eye. I am happy to pay becauase I believe there are some services that are better provided by everyone, for everyone, universally and I include health care in that. Thus my initial post here way back at the top. IF you want to support the NHS, and I am not saying you have to, then make your voice known to the politicians, otherwise they will just, as we all know, "follow the money", listen to people like you, use your voice as an excuse to hide the financial reasons they are voting the way they are, and that will be the end of the NHS.
Try this, it is a piece about the House of Lords and the campaign to stop lords voting on bills in which they have financial interest. socialinvestigations.blogspot.jp/2012/02/nhs-privatisation-compilation-of.html Did you know, 1 in 4 Tory lords have interests in private healthcare companies? Your voice will be used to make them personally ever more wealthy. Is that the way we wish the future of all our healthcare be decided?
On the idea of tax freedom day, it is a useful tool domestically to compare say, the US to the US over time, however the wiki suggests that, by the way, "Due to the different ways that nations collect and categorize public finance data, however, Tax Freedom Days are not comparable from one country to another."
Honestly mate, you are free to do whatever you want. Stay in Ireland and feel persecuted for having to pay NI, move somewhere else and get a different view of the world, refuse to pay and take your case to the European Court of Human Rights. Enjoy your choice though, otherwise one just creates a negative world view, and the only person that that really brings down is, well....
Feel free to believe whatever you want, as long as your beliefs don't cost me any money. But as soon as my net salary is decreased because of your beliefs, it becomes a problem. Please bear in mind that my beliefs don't cost you anything and I'm not preventing you from paying for a health insurance.
Extremmist mate, that is just such an impossible dream you have their, good luck with it. Society, no society, comes without costs someone, somewhere has to bear.
I have to take issue here mate: "my beliefs don't cost you anything".. Sorry? Well, how about you count the endless hours, confusion and stress sifting through the inevitable minefield of phone calls, pamphlets and advertising informing me of the many and countless ways I can save money on my health bills were I too change supplier.
Do you remember the days when we had one gas supplier and one electricity supplier rather than the multi-layered clear-as-mud, utopia of a choice of energy suppliers? You know, the one we had before our current suppliers, who have been accused of systematically overcharging customers www.presstv.com/detail/332035.html?
Since the deregulation there have been benefits and costs to all of us, in particular the socially vulnerable ("The (measured) quality of service has increased, savings have been available from switching supplier and final consumer prices have fallen. But the exercise has been costly, and consumers have not reaped all the potential financial gains available from switching, and there is evidence of remaining incumbent and oligopoly power in the residential supply markets, and low income consumers in particular may remain vulnerable." Source: competitionpolicy.ac.uk/documents/107435/107587/ccp4-2.pdf).
You and I have different views about how society best serves needs. You seem to think that whenever there is a cost to you and benefit to someone else, there is some inherent wrong involved. Sorry to say it, but you are naive. End of.
As I said before, people who don't get it, don't get it and instead interpret people who act out of benevolence as some kind of Trotskyite.
And don't we all have short memories people. No-one remembers "Share the ride"? Come on then please c4mtb and extremmist, could you explain to me the reasons for the existance of schemes such as "share the ride", they are, after all are they not, people paying for something that someone else benefits from?
"What the individual can do is to give a fine example, and to have the courage to uphold ethical values .. in a society of cynics."
(Albert Einstein)
China has boomed based upon the manufacture and supply of counterfeit goods. Almost everything that is made there is a rip off of something else. Don't feel like paying for something? That's alright go to china where they will make a crappy copy. They have also purposely printed money on copious amounts to keep the currency down artificially. Oh yeah and the main reason they will collapse is the incredible amount of economic stimulus that was provided by the Chinese government in 2008 to ensure there would be no slowdown. Hundreds of billions was spent on projects that will never deliver a return. That is not sustainable.
http://cdn.sneakhype.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/usd-122_trillion_dollars-122000000000000_USD-620x1065.jpeg
china has other issues, listen or talk talk to Jim Chanos (if you know him) or talk to mr Ballentine and his Chinese economist, there is a housing bubble, credit bubble, soon to be inflation issue, corruption, and a predicted lower working age (for a blue color company that is disastrous)
Why should a human being be entitled to "free" healthcare? Because he/she can walk on two legs and talk? My parrot could to the same so he should get a free vet, shouldn't he? Maybe I should create a new ideology and call it Parrotism. Every parrot that can talk should be entitled to free healthcare, social welfare, child benefits, accomodation and education.
My thoughts about my actions (as I said before, I don't like pigeon holes) are this:
What I give, returns to me many times over.
The care I give to others is no more than the care I often receive from others.
When I see others in real need, regardless of how they ended up in that situation, I will try and help. Because there are times when we all need others to help us.
There are things you have said in you recent..... post.... that show you still don't get it do you. Sorry for the capitals, but IT IS NOT FREE HEALTHCARE. It is a different model of how healthcare be organized, one of universality. Everyone pays and everyone gets. It is not free.
So, I will ask you a question (I asked you one before but you chose not to answer it).
How do you explain the existance of "share the ride". People are giving something and getting, what?
www.thinkinghumanity.com/2014/04/an-anthropologist-proposed-a-game-to-children-in-an-african-tribe-this-is-how-they-tackled-it.html
There are people in the world who understand how everyone benefits from mutual co-operation. It is not my fault if you don't get it. It is not my fault if you can't see there is an alternative to the dog-eat-dog world that you seem to believe is the ONLY option. It is not the only option, but just one. Some of us prefer alternatives. Have a good day.
The second problem is that this "insurance" is a portion of your income (which basically makes it just another tax) so the people who earn more have to pay more, even though they don't get better healthcare than those who pay less or nothing.
When paying for private insurance, you get certain services for certain amount of money and this amount of money doesn't change, no matter whether you earn $50,000 a year or $5,000,000 a year.
If you believe that NHS is good, why don't we finance all services this way? Electricity, gas, internet, mobile phone, the almighty state would just take a portion of our salary and give you the opportunity to use these services, no matter whether you need them or not. The rich will pay more, the poor will pay less and everything is going to be shared by everyone. Great idea, isn't it? Almost as if I've already seen it somewhere;
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
Could you possibly answer my question?
The same thing happens with medicine. Poorer people and medicines which are financially unviable just wouldn't be available. Free markets do not work for most things and certainly not medicne or infrastructure.
And that's the biggest problem with NHS - it doesn't reward healthy lifestyle. People would behave more responsibly if they had to pay for their bad choices. Now you can smoke 3 packs of cigarettes a day and if you get lung cancer, the other taxpayers have to pay for your treatment.
Note to self: add some names names to the "people with whom it is unlikely to be able to discuss something with any hope of progression" list. Bye.
enjoy your lost 2 decades.
"Do a good deed for someone and it'll make its way back to you."
HAHAHA what a bullshit, are you a christian priest or what? No good deed goes unpunished. Give others a finger and they'll rip your whole arm off.
I have, so far, in my life, once, yes once, done a good deed for someone and it made its way back to me and ripped my whole arm off. That is because there are people out there that, as you say, will do that. I lent someone I worked with 150,000 yen and I have never seen it again. That is once.
The mistake you make is assuming everyone else is like that.
On every single other occasion, every single other occasion in 45 years, always, always and inwaveringly received as great a benefit or not greater from my acts of kindness.
The applauding of inherent selfishness like it's some sort of trait to be sought after rather than a society built on cooperation is uncivilized and primitive at best. It's a bunch of Randian BS, as most of the free market is only possible because of the government as is all this most powerful country stuff you talk about. Do you complain this much about having to subsidize GE, big agriculture, or the entire defense industry? Basically you just don't want to have to pay anything to help anyone poorer and that's not something anyone should applaud. The real thieves and vultures aren't the taxes people pay towards healthcare that benefits everyone, it's the profit driven health care industry which people all across the US are having a harder time paying for while receiving worse health care. Enjoy living under your rock but one day I'm hopeful that people will realize healthcare shouldn't be a for profit industry, just like education, or providing people with any basic service.
"taxes on the wealthy are at 50%"
Where in the absolute f*ck are you getting that statistic? Fox news?
Please, if there is one thing I think you may benefit from, it would be take just a little more time to read and digest information. I have found it challenging to discuss things with you for that reason. You, I and extremmist have (in theory) been having a discussion about politics and the supply of health care in parliamentary democracies. though I am not sure whether it is only me that realizes that.
Anyway, have a good weekend you two, get out for a ride and let's all stay out of hospital and save other people money!
and i apologies my conversions where off, i had the decimal in the wrong spot (.9 instead of .009 my bad)
Why do I ask? Because I'm looking at a webpage with the taxation brackets within America and I am seeing NOTHING like that at all. Eg; "While the top marginal tax rate on ordinary income is 39.6 percent, average rates that a household in the upper income bracket pays are less."
So now responsibility of proof falls on your shoulder. You made a very large claim, you now have to back it up. Please do so.
Ps, I'm still waiting on that article about helmet safety you told me about literally weeks about. Stop bullshitting.
admittedly i dont know enough about taxes but here is an article about what we where talking about earlier where the wealthy supporting everyone else, crazy stats.
www.cnbc.com/id/101264757
there is your proof
Please stop making absurd claims.
Also, you SPECIFICALLY SAID the pinkbike article wasn't the one you remembered seeing, and that you were just posting it in the meantime. I then asked you for another article citing your bullshit. It's been weeks and you have not given anything.
PLEASE stop making absurd claims.
the second post about California, shows the numbers according to cnn here is the link
money.cnn.com/2013/04/01/pf/taxes/top-income-tax
Dude what the f*ck are you smoking and where can I get some?
Ps, really enjoying you downpropping my comments as I call you out. Getting down on me for asking for proof on a claim you made. Rofl.
You gave an example for the absolute top tax bracket for an area I doubt your family pays into. It STILL wasn't the figure your originally claimed. This also doesn't take into the tax cuts and breaks that you get as you make more money. Even the article you just posted implies nobody actually pays that tax rate, as there's "tax breaks" to take advantage of, or investing the money for further tax cuts, something people with no large sums of money can do.
It's absolutely amazing how much you're reading between the lines here to prove yourself right. You are incorrect through and through. "Woe is me, I am too rich!"
Btw talking about the roads; if I buy a car, I pay VAT, which is 23 % of the car's real value. The company that manufactured it has to pay corporate tax. When I want to drive it, I have to pay motor tax - for a car with 3.0l engine it's about €1500 a year. And every time I refuel it, I have to pay fuel tax plus VAT (basically majority of the petrol/diesel price is tax). I think it's more than enough to maintain the roads.
This is not an issue in the UK where all healthcare is free.
My out of pocket expense in US for any injury - $0. My sons broken arm - $0. And all diagnostics and care is ten times better than NHS. My wife's knee surgery - fully covered. Two weeks wait, not six months like in UK or Canada. Much better everything.
Yes, my employers pays, or I pay if I am not working - but I would rather pay for myself, and for what I want and need. Not have it rationed to me by government bureaucrats.
Looks like we've got another Fox parrot here with zero understanding of what Obamacare actually is... Nice contradiction in saying you want people covered but you hate Obamacare which was put in place to provide affordable healthcare to millions. Yeah some people did get screwed over but hey it's like you said, the system isn't perfect, right?
orastree- That's not due to healthcare being privatized, you moron. That's due to the US having some of the best facilities for bright minds to work/research in... which are mainly funded by the contributions of very wealthy partners of the hospitals... that is when they're actually part of the hospital and not of a local university which is mostly the case anyways. Either way, they're not funded from people paying their absurdly marked up hospital bills.
Who do you people think PAYS for your "free" medical coverage??
I've been to the ER in Canada..(paid out of my own pocket) I literally sat in the waiting room for 4hrs with an 8" long gash to the bone, bleeding all over until I was even seen to assess the injury....After they figured out I wasn't going to die anytime soon it was back to the waiting room...Keep in mind it was 8pm and the hospital was about empty..
If politicians spent their time trying to drive down the expenses of doctors and hospitals (largely having to do with doctors cost of their insurance) everyone would be allot better off.. Instead they just cater to the low information crowd and try to appease their desire to have everything handed to them..
Also to anyone who want to say anything about paying half their money in taxes, I'd say at least in the UK they can pay away half they're money to taxes and still have a higher standard of living as well as actually receiving a service for that $ unlike here where we mostly just pay for military bases around the globe and our insane debt.
US health insurance is just a product and as on any product the real costs of the product are just a fraction of what you pay.
Think about it, you are paying the TV ads your insurance company needs to air, and a lot of other stuff, to sell more product in order to earn more so the investors get higher dividends and only a small fraction of you payments go towards your kids broken leg...
It not at all about helping people who are in need. Health should not be a business.
Of course Euro medical coverage is not free, and we all pay our part but the big advantage is our coverage providers goal is not to create X-billion dollars in revenue. We are paying for medical coverage and not for Mansions and yachts of CEO's and investors.
I live in the US for 4 years now... and its freaking me out... the plans that i was offered that would cover me doing "extreme" sports would have been more than i make a month. The whole system is just a ridiculous fail.
Social derives from the Latin word socii and means partner. So the social idea could be very simply described as doing stuff together or for each other.... Uhhh evil! watch out everyone!
What good does it do when a company invent a medicine and the mark up is so high that people can not take part of it. Instead it could be developed with in an governmental institution and have a lower price tag(development + production). Or if you truly care about your family, neighbors and the guy living on street, it could be under subvention. OFC you would have the share the cost of other people, but when you need it, you will be thankful.
The sooner we all stop praising Adam Smith and have a look at Sen and Nussbaum the better. The great famine proved it a long time ago.
I wish we had a healthcare system similar to the rest of the developed world
And Rathunter - that's the whole idea for the ACA. Without it, people who are not insured go to the hospitals, default on the bills and everyone else picks up the fees. We pay like 2x as much in healthcare per person than any other developed country. So the ACA forces people to be responsible and either have insurance or pay a fine that can go toward paying those outstanding bill. I'm not saying it's perfect, it's a complex issue. But atleast it's a small step forward
Obamacare isn't health care. All it does is force you to buy insurance that has some minimum level of coverage whose cost is based on your income. The less you make, the less you pay and the more the government subsidizes your cost. Keep in mind that in some states, you might be covered by a public policy like Medicad/Medicare or equivalent. And in many cases, you insurance doesn't fully kick in until you've met certain deductibles-of course, there are things that are covered as a part of the policy but most people will pay some sort of deductible which could likely bankrupt a family (just the same as having no insurance would). Again, Obamacare does not do anything to control the cost of health care and some have said they believe it could increase the cost of providing care. It's worth noting that the USA spends about 18% of it's GDP on health care. Canada, 11%, Australia, 9%, and the UK, also about 9%. The claim is that if everyone has health insurance, the cost to provide care will go down.
Once again, Obamacare doesn't do anything to change the cost of providing care, it only mandates that you buy health insurance. It's also very likely you could find the doctor you've been seeing under your old policy won't accept the coverage you now have (health care providers don't have to accept your insurance).
For those of you in countries with programs like the NHS. It might be free to you but it is not free to taxpayers. So if it's no cost to people, why do so many in Australia and The UK buy private insurance policies?
The elephant in the room question that was not asked is "what if insurance providers (including public health care providers) decided your participation in high risk activities was not covered at the same level if at all by a basic policy?". Comments?
I see and know all to many a fellow american that has embraced the "I'm entitled mentality" and want some one else to help them along or subsidize them or take care of them with no real thought of where it comes from or who really pays.
As a veteran who spent 23 yrs fighting for others freedom and liberty just to come back a to VA (absurd) healthcare system that does not work in many ways and is steeped in govt. oversight, bureaucracy, regulations and delayed treatment is a farce. The ACA will mirror it once in full implementation. GOVT. running medical business is a recipe to disaster. I pay out of pocket to ride my DH rig and live on a budget because of it.. But I pay for it! I do not let someone else cover me becuase I'm to stupid to selfish to be self reliant. "Mothers tit /big govt tit", you figure it out Kensians. Oh and I am a middle class working stiff with spouse and son...
I'm all for people being able to have health insurance at a reasonable cost. But I should not be required by law to have said insurance and I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's either. If its offered through your employer, great, take advantage. If its not but you make enough to pay for it, great, take advantage. But if your a lazy sob who doesn't "feel like" getting a job then screw you. You need to get off your ass and contribute to the rest of society.www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zov2ojMp84 this is the shit I'm talking about. Do you really want to support this kind of mentality?
The industry you been working at the last 8 years let's you go and as the hard working man you going around trying to find a new job. The last to months been kind of rough, paying house mortgage and having two kids as a single dad has not been easy, so you bought a cheaper car and canceled cabel tv, internet and insurance. One day, out looking for a job, stepping out of the car you slip on some ice. Broken wrist in need of surgery...tough luck?
However, for the rest of us, yes, it's pretty jacked; if I get hurt I'm on the hook for the first $8K or so before my insurance kicks in. And that's considering my insurance company considers the type of riding I do to be covered (pretty sure it is). My personal belief, FWIW, is that health care should not be a profit center. Neither should law enforcement, criminal justice, education, or any other basic services. And I'm willing to pay slightly higher taxes to have those services provided by competent professionals. Now you can have a huge drawn out debate whether those things are mutually exclusive, though that's going to be driven by different belief systems. And those don't change on internet forums.
The PC terms are "Lesser Developed Countries" & "More Developed Countries" MDC/LDC which the criteria are based on the HDI (Human Devevlopment Index), GNI, things like Poverty, Infant mortality, and adult literacy, etc.
It also seems like the insurances you get in the US are pretty useless. My travel insurance, which cover high risk activities, has unlimited medical coverage anywhere in the world.
What happens to the rest of our taxes? Schools, roads, care for the elderly etc. What happens to your insurance money? It ends up in the pocket of some old billionaire, who does everything he can to make sure he won't have to pay any taxes, and that healthcare stays ridiculously expensive. Because that's how he makes his money.
Because I know you're probably going to whine about oil money after reading this; check out the rest of the Scandinavian countries, who has no oil. Sweden and Denmark were doing pretty good last time I checked, and I don't recall them having any oil.
I am all for a free market, private organizations and consider myself to be liberal. But there are still some things that I think is best suited to be cared for by the government, and one of those things is health care. The idea of making a PROFIT from other peoples sickness is just wrong, no matter how much you hate the "communism" that is public health care.
Coming from South Africa where you have to have Medical Insurance, I would take this any day of the week. I have had friends in South Africa refused insurance for certain problems because it "ran in their family"? Yer, great system.
Give me a break..these guys are pros. They know what they are getting into. They want to make more money, go swing a hammer. If any of these guys that are pros or trying to be dont have health insurance they are morons...point blank.
Say what you will about the system - and it does have its problems. But those problems are FAR wider reaching than white boys sponsored by redbull riding 10k+ bikes and hucking themselves off cliffs (and complaining about getting hurt).
Not saying what they do isn't amazing, but Obama care or any sort of government aided system is not trying to help these guys...its about getting people who cannot afford it otherwise subsidized prices on health that lower ALL of our costs in the long run.
Prices from US and CAN are from another planet :-O
After a man in a car pulling out on Me on My motorbike last year, I damaged My left wrist, I went back the same hospital waited 2 hours got 2 x-rays and they said go Home it's just bruised, that's that! The pain just got worse, but luckily I have a Great Doctor who is a keen cyclist, He referred Me to a private hospital ( FOR FREE, : ) ) right by were I live, after 8 x-rays and 1 steroid injection, since last year They operated Yesterday to find 2 ripped tendons, and a tiny bit of floating bone, and give Me a top padded sling 3 types of tablets, and couldn't do enough for Me absolutely AWESOME!!! The NHS do what they can, and the older You get the less they give a shit, I now know why, people who can afford it go private, and if I could afford it I would never use an NHS Hospital again, roll on the Lottery, and that's why all sports people get back to doing it quicker than most because they are fixed to carry on with their Sport, not just to walk up and down the street.
50 thousand dollars for broken femur...I think that prize should be at least half a million dollar so you can afford your med bills...
Land of opportunity!
among these:
-nobody forces them to do this...they also can get a boring work at the nearest factory for 20k$ /year and stay away from potential injuries.man they primarily do this because they have fun.
we don't speak about millions of peoples il that earth that are doeing far more dangerous work only to eat.
-health insurance system is really expensive for a government or for citizens, but after all, it avoids lots of questions about medical costs.
also works for expensive medical treatments for diabetes, work accidents, etc...
the fact is that in every developped country,total medical care shouldn't be an option. you are sick, ill, wounded, etc=> everything possible should be done to get you well, no matter the cost is.
the drawback is that there is lots of abuses in this system from people that don't play the game and over-use the system.
but i definitely prefer paying tax a lil bit too high each month, and be granted to receive a 1million treatment if i need it one day...
-dropping a 50ft backflip in only helmet an tshirt is their choice. what about being less stupid and wearing a lil' bit more protections...?
'murica way of life, you got what you wanted!
Personally, I have insurance. And I can pay for that because i have lower taxes than most, of not all, you European folks.
Imagine quitting your job because your boss was a dick: Cancel your health insurance to save money (or lose it because it was a company bonus). And then you have a relatively minor bike accident - go to hospital and drop cash as if you're going to buy that place. Welcome to the burning ruins that once were your life.
In most European countries, you tell the Government "I'm currently unemployed", and they will provide you with the same insurance you've had before, for free - until you get a new job. Being put into hospital is bad enough, no one should have to worry about the cost behind this.
So these one or two hundreds a month we pay more each month buy peace of mind for the entire country. 10/10 would pay again.
agree 100% otherwise
Generally it is the same and if it is more it is only a tiny bit more. Seriously, the american government has done an absolutely amazing job at making you all believe that free health care means terrible service and stupidly high taxes.
Answer me this. Would you rather pay an extra 1% in taxes and be fully covered for absolutely everything - helipcopters, mri's, extensive recurring surgeries.... the list is endless.
Or would you rather save that 1% but pay an absurd amount on insurance only to be told you still have to pay a large amount because they wont pay the full 100%. Or run the risk without insurance and go bankrupt if something bad does happen?
Wake the hell up and stop listening to the 'free market' philosophy of the rich politicians.
Because propaganda is really the only thing you are full of.
You have not been able to even provide one single constructive point to the discussion and still you believe, that you are the smartest f#ck around here. It's not even funny how ignorant you are.
Now, why not doing some math before trying to be a smartass?
E.g. take the top10 of all pharmaceutical companies world wide, divide them into US and EU companies and add up the investments in research and development using the data of 2011. What do you find?
Oh wow, the EU companies invest more. Funny, right?!
The only thing we mooch on may be the fact, that you Americans test the drugs risking your very health for us, since the EU takes much more time to extensively test the drugs while in the US the industry is free to push deadly drugs on the market.
But then again, that may change very soon thanks to Frau Merkel who, as a slave of Germanys history with the US, is not capable of asserting national and european interests in front of the strong arm of US.
The Free Trade Agreement is going to push fracking, contaminated meat, genetically modified food, and softened regulations in every industry (which is obviously a bad thing) into Europe and it will bring nothing but negative consequences for Europeans.
Congratulations, one more "win" for you.
So it's actually all the EU drug companies greedily shaking down the American people? Well f*ck you greedy EU drug companies! And you have it backwards mazze. Drugs are used in Europe years and even decades before being approved in the U.S. It may seem like U.S. strong arming because not only does your country owe the U.S. forever for the millions killed in the name of German superiority, but the U.S. conquered your country and still helped you to be where you are at today. That was the "win", right?
This can be especially important if you're really far from home: There's just been a military coup in Thailand where my friends are visiting! If you're in the deepest darkest nowhere, you might consider signing up with Global Rescue (they provide evac services for the US Ski team) or International SOS.
Most of the guys competing at Rampage and other venues are still in that invincible stage of their lives and the promoters and sponsors kind of count on that. Watching the stunts get bigger and bigger year after year it's not a matter of if, but when, someone will end up living as a vegetable or die after an accident. The athletes are really nothing more than pawns to sell us shit - energy drinks, bikes, parts, socks, etc., and I feel that the athlete's sponsors should provide comprehensive and global insurance to every one of their riders. Plus, RedBull should be held liable if they don't check the metical coverage of the participants before each event. No insurance (and not some $20 day of race crap where you can only die from a bee sting on a Tuesday) no ride.
Also, take it from me. It takes just a second to go from being on top of the world to buried in insurance denials, medical bills, and destroyed credit reports.
No longer is it about working hard, going to college, becoming an engineer, doctor, lawyer, etc. and EARNING a living. It's about making a half-assed attempt at life and expecting Nanny Gov't to take care of us.
Don't make enough money? Learn a skill that makes you valuable to the economy. Get an engineering degree in robotics for example, super hot field to be in. Go to medical school. Go to law school. Take initiative and do better than your co-workers, you will be rewarded. This is what successful people in the U.S., U.K., Canada and anywhere else in the world have done and continue to do in order to become successful.
-or- sit around and bitch on Pinkbike because your 30 years old, living at home, making 10 bucks an hour, and can't afford health insurance...See how long a civilization lasts composed of that type of mediocre, non-producing citizenry.
Also FFS, "free" health care (NHS, Obamacare, etc.) is paid for via increased taxation. Nothing is free jackasses.
Oh well, Who is John Galt...
Atlas Shrugged is a GREAT example of why America is in such trouble! ..OH THE IRONY!
most Americans are complete greedy selfish idealistic retards- and thats why this nonsense continues...."go get a law degree" lol right Mitt Romeny- Im sure you enjoy smelling your own farts....
But when for profit systems fail (healthcare, housing, education)- they cry to taxpayers to bail them out! Where Was your John Gault bullshit WHEN THE MARKET CRASHED AND BANKS WANTED TO BE BAILED OUT? NOTTA- Cry like a bitch and steal taxpayer money. They got the 700billion.....capitalism for the poor socialism for the RICH! horray!
Still curious about those natural laws your talking about
That argument falls on the way the world is built up with sovereign states, but your right about that it says something about how we value human life. If you want to help another country you should vote for that. My state has his hand in my pocket - deep - to help people in other parts of the world and I'm fine with that.
Then again, USA is country in special situation - it's easier to discuss theory then reality.
If a national healthcare system is such a good idea, then why does it have to be forced? Why do police officers have to use guns to force people to participate in it? If your idea requires the threat of violence, you might want to reconsider it.
1. MTBs and wars.
I think what you are going after is the right to chose? Am I right? The comparison to mtb is just plain wrong, there is no fundamental need for mtb in context of todays basic needs like health, social security, higher education for national development etc. A broken arm is a broken arm, there is no need for someone to make money out of it, driving up the prices. Then you'll say, but what about the competition that drives development? Then I'll say read the above. Then you'll say something about long waiting times, etc etc. Then I'll say so the the life of guy with a lot of money is more worth then life of poor guy? Nice. Yeah I waited like 6 hours in the ER when I broke my collar bone, single f*cks given cause during that time some poor bastard with a hart attack was saved. I survived, there was no need to panic, you don't die from a broke collar bone.
A government does not have to start wars(i.e Sweden has not in 200 years and we have 100 year long history with socialism), I understand its hard to grasp born in to a warmongering nation.
"USA alone accounts for 40% of all global military expenditure, averaging at close to $600 billion spent every year on warfare. America’s dedication to war and conflict spending is 12 times higher than what it spends on ‘aid’, which totalled less than $50 billion in year 2011."
And about all the repressing, stealing and spying. I understand you, I too would be mad having such shitty government as yours. Allowing wall street to cheat the people out of there money, then when shit hits the fan they get bailed out while people actually losing their homes..
National healtcare(high taxes) is not forced on anyone, in democracy you choose your leaders. Sometimes you are on the losing side of an election and have to accept that if you like the idea of a democracy, though I noticed that has not correspond so well with the republicans hence the guns.
And why is that?
I think it boils down to a lot americans definition of freedom; absence of regulation, the american dream, taxes is slavery, praise A.Smith, praise Nozick, the belief in natural right etc. And it looks good on paper, but in real life not so much.
But the bible says..forget what the bible says, it's fiction, there is no such thing as natural rights. The right to life is a social construction, the right to life is worthless with out the right to health.
How do you become a doctor if you are brought up in a poor home, the little saved for college was spent on health care cause the insurance did not cover all expenses? You don't and that is what the american dream will give you, oh such freedom.
How do you become a doctor if you are brought up in a poor home and on top of that you get sick and has no insurance? Well, the national healtcare system takes care of your illness and no need to worry about being poor, we'll give you some money to go to school and on top of that you can have a low interest loan to fund the rest. Oh by the way, there is no fees for school. You'll just pay it back later in tax revenue. That is freedom, to be able to chose your life.
But I've been in this discussion before, so I'll know you'll pick the first situation - the good ol' freedom - cause you are unable to see the difference in the freedom to actually being able to full fill yourself and the freedom to having the possibility to full fill yourself.
If national healthcare is such a good idea, do it without some people pointing guns at others.
"If national healthcare is such a good idea, do it without some people pointing guns at others." That's extremely funny to see such a sentence written by an american, especially in the light of recent events. Joking aside, coming from a place with a lot of governmental services, I hear a lot of complaining about high taxes and services that shouldn't exist... but "free" healthcare is hardly ever one that gets pointed out as such, quite the opposite actually, most people want broader coverage if anything.
What happened to China when they started liberalizing their economy? They started getting results similar to HK.
It is possible to have a government that provides basic police, military, and disease control but still have it not interfere with the economy. This is what HK had before it went back to China, and what the US mostly had for the first 90 years of its existence.
"It is the world's largest re-export centre. Much of Hong Kong's exports consist of re-exports, which are products made outside of the territory, especially in mainland China, and distributed via Hong Kong." They basically made money of China - good for them. In a liberalized world, would everybody be better off? I don't think so. An unregulated market only serves the ones with capital and not the ones actually producing
"Since 1979 the average pre-tax income for the bottom 90% of households has decreased by $900, while that of the top 1% increased by over $700,000, as federal taxation became less progressive." I guess the top 1 % most be offsprings of jesus christ our savior to deserve that kind of money.
It's easy to preach the good sides of something and disregard the negatives, until it bites you in the ass.
Also, the banking industry in the US is the most regulated industry in the economy, with healthcare being second. The "Reagan Deregulation" is a myth. There are thousands upon thousands of pages of regulations for the banking industry, written in leaglise that only a select handful of expert lawyers with decades of legal experience can begin to decipher. I agree though 100% we should not have bailed out anyone. If you suck at banking, then go away and let someone else into the market.
"Mitch Chubey ... was air medevaced out as well to the tune of $12k for his 47 minute flight to St George"
What's with the different price, and most of all, with the totally different flight time? Is one of them a typo?
My insurance did negotiate the medical bills down from 28k to 14.7k, shows how much they over charge. 50% discount???? Probably still making bank off that.
I'm going down to the states in a few weeks, and will be buying some travel insurance just in case. $20 well spent.
I dont understand folks that just "hope" they don't ruing their financial lives over a broken leg.
Every policy is different though, so you are right. Read it.
blog.remakehealth.com/blog_Healthcare_Consumers-0/bid/8507/How-much-does-an-X-ray-cost
You get hurt in the woods no one pays a dime for your recovery.
¿ Can you afford to stay home for an extended period of time with a broken limb ?
¿ Can you afford to lose your job in case you crash badly and your employer needs to have someone at your place?
¿ Can you see yourself hobbling around like a creep for the rest of your life just because you thought you could pull it off and instead you kissed mother earth?
¿ does it make sense to f*ck your family's finances up as a consequence of a fall?
The list goes on - you know it. Getting insurance is only running a game of moral hazard and but will have to live with the consequences for the rest of your lives.
As far as the pros are concerned - it's really sad that they don't realize how much they're being exploited. Yeh - don't skimp on the insurance and do make bloody sure you're reading all the fine print...
Also, I have a sickness and disability cover so if something really went bad (including non-bike related stuff) and I can’t work at least my family are taken care of.
This has nothing to do with health insurance. Pro athletes would have to be insured by Lloyds of London for huge cash.
Why would any one insure a high risk. A very very high risk athlete?
Plus an EHIC CARD covers use for most of Europe.
Get insurance though because you don't want a airlift bill for being dragged off an alp or something if the worst happens.
Just carry insurance, it is worth it, and yes, if you work you can afford it. If you don't, you get Medicaid. (Or ask your parents until you are 26).
Airlift insurance is like $100 a year. if your primary does not cover.
- America
Clearly some of you guys missed the bold part that reads "hospital bills in Canada" in Soderstroms section. Try gang raping Canada after you are done with the US.
we have free health care here....we just dont pay for out of towners! If you come to whistler have insurance! Simple right!? You would be surprised how many ppl dont (mostly Americans who are used too rolling around without insurance) do your research and ask your potential insurance company all the hard, worst case scenario questions.
And axxe. ...your why most of the world dislikes americans....your an idiot
i'm going to a competition where's their always someone going to the hospital and i think i'm covered by paying 270$
If socialized healthcare works so well, why do countries have to force people to pay for it? If its so great why wouldn't everyone sign up for free?
If socialized healthcare works so well, why do most western countries (including the US which is 2/3 socialized via Medicare) operate at huge deficits? Medicare, for those non-Americans, is 100% NHS style socialized healthcare for people 65+. Spending on Medicare and SS, it is estimated, will consume the entire Federal US Budget by 2050.
I broke my arm in Germany and was treated for free. Does that make me a scrounging European?
It would have been easier to pass legislation that enabled anyone to buy a policy that was affordable to them and for which you could not be refused. It could have been funded by additional legislation to streamline things like uniform coding, negotiating better pricing for drugs (which is what Kaiser does). Basically, start using size to drive down costs.
Anyway, it could have been way better than it is. Maybe the folks in Alabama know something we don't?
Rampage is cool on the upper part of the canyon. All the senders is just a circus, not mountain biking.
I kinda agree that sponsors should cover their riders insurance if they expect them to risk their health in such events and since riders themself agree. But at the same time the idea of universal healtha care is that your money goes to somebody else and at the same time somebodys money goes to you if you need to cover some treatment that would be otherwise very expensive. In theory those money should cover your needs no matter your earnings because somebody richer pays more than you and the other way round. Well in theory...
About the Rampage. I have to say that while watching this year rampage in some moments i was wondering if the guy riding is going to die or not (backflip). And i am not sure if that is the level of risk that sport should be about. At least in sport events, like Rampage or others. If you are risking your life by climbing on some mountain this is different case imo. If you are risking your life to win some event and get high scores from judges then i am not so sure. But maybe i am wrong. Maybe this backflip was Zinks own Mount Everest if you know what i mean.
I'm sure as a middle aged person who has enough money to fund an expensive hobby such as mountain biking health insurance isn't a big deal but people below you suffer from your selfishness.
Also look how proud everyone with a public health system is of it, it's not like we are against it we embrace it and majority love it. It can be abused but that is a price we are willing to pay to ensure that no one goes without proper medical treatment. It's all about the bigger picture.
Also life expectancy USA 78.6 years, UK 80.8 years which I'd put down to some factors which include the NHS (national health service).
So it seems normal to you that one bag of infusion (which is practically distilled water with salt) costs 800$ in hospital while it costs 1$ to produce it.
But whom am I talking about here, just a bunch of clueless punks brainwashed by big government propaganda.
@spudlord - why do you think that having an accident far away from home should be cheaper? Do you have any clue what things really cost?
Pay your premium and do not worry. Much better care than doled out by the Big Brother.
Even with all that included it's just crazy to pay 800$ for one plastic bag of sterile water with salt. As I can see you are fortunate enough to afford premium healthcare. But what about those who are not that lucky. Do you americans even care about other people? And don't say it's only their fault not being able to pay for premium healtcare.
Up to now all I've heard is that you have exactly the same as US maybe a bit faster service at the cost of lower income people suffering. So with that why wouldn't I take my big brother looking after me? I hope you see where I'm coming from, I've experience both systems and I can wholeheartedly say I prefer the public slower system I just want to understand why your view point is so strong that you feel other people should essentially suffer.
@Axxe your whole argument seems to be based on the fact that you can afford it and f*ck those who cannot. There is a reason that the US has such high levels of poverty and wealth disparity. The health and education systems are just two of those reasons.
Yes, America is amazing if you get the right breaks. If you don't it is one of the worst places on earth.
Structured arguments? For you? Your starting statements are well beyond repair, truth will fall on deaf ears.
That is what government propaganda does to people. Just another nation poisoned with populism and lies.
Nation poisoned with populism and lies because of goverment propaganda? And that says someone from a country where politicians and senators should wear their sponsors names on their fancy armani suits.
Let me guess, you still think you are utterly right and will reply with an insult or how this discussion is beneath you...