Spotted: Danny Hart's Prototype Giant Glory 27.5

Mar 29, 2014 at 11:07
by Mike Kazimer  

Add Danny Hart to the ever-growing list of riders who have been spotted on 27.5” downhill bikes this season. Hart is aboard a prototype aluminum framed 27.5" Giant Glory at the first race of the British Downhill Series, an event that attracts some of the top DH racers in the world looking to gauge their fitness and try out new equipment before the big show gets underway at the first stop of the 2014 World Cup in Pietermaritzburg, South Africa, next month.

Fellow Giant Factory Off-Road rider Marcelo Gutierrez raced his prototype Glory at the Valparaiso Urban DH race earlier this year, so it's not too surprising to see Danny aboard a similar looking ride. In a sport where the difference between standing on the podium and watching from the crowd can be determined by a hundredth of a second, racers are constantly searching for anything that can help them find those precious milliseconds. The new frame isn't a radical departure from the previous version of the Glory – the suspension configuration, using Giant's Maestro dual short-link design, remains the same, and from a distance it's hard to even notice the larger wheels. However, a close look reveals a 27.5" RockShox Boxxer on the front, while 27.5" DT Swiss wheels are shod with Schwalbe's Magic Mary tires in the rear.

We'll have more information when it's available, as well as full racing coverage from BDS Round 1.


214 Comments

  • 450 38
 C'mon PB! The only thing you guys post nowadays is wheel size related blogs. Im getting bored of it all!
  • 80 16
 ^what he said^
  • 28 5
 looked at the photo and skipped the text entirely. my wheel is bigger than yours...
  • 35 111
flag BeardlessMarinRider (Mar 29, 2014 at 11:29) (Below Threshold)
 Hear hear! If you need to keep doing it at least refer to the wheels by their correct size- 650B. There is no such thing as 27.5!
  • 34 10
 Can't wait for 29er DH bikes. For the same arguments for 650b.
  • 49 6
 Interesting. I'm actually interested in seeing what all the top pros ride. Oh, and hey, here's an article about what a top pro rides!
  • 70 23
 I don't agree - easily the biggest development in mountain bike technology over the last 2/3 years has been the dawn of the 27.5"/29" wheel for consumers. Remember all those years ago when the first suspension fork was made available to mtbers, I'm sure that some people were saying they were sick of hearing about it...

What I'm bored hearing about is people moaning about wheel sizes (which *ARE PROVEN* to make you faster if used in the right circumstance) and then lose their s*** over something completely irrelevant like a new 'mud-shedding rotor'.

These wheel sizes are here for our benefit, and the reason PB makes a big deal about them is because although people like to think that they're '26inch4life', bigger wheel sizes are literally walking themselves out bike shop doors.
  • 24 5
 It is news worthy, the industry is shifting from a wheel size used for a long time to a new soon to be standard. That does not happen every year
  • 21 28
flag chriskneeland (Mar 29, 2014 at 11:47) (Below Threshold)
 The perfect wheelsize is actually 26.971". Look for it in 2020 when bike companies reach the slack head angle limit of 53 degrees.
  • 49 7
 Giant?!?! why you no carbon ?
  • 41 6
 I just like how this time there's no real hype. There's a photo, there's a description saying we don't know anything about it and will release info as it's available. That's pretty cool.

If anything, I'd get down on the "photog" who took a photo with light coming in from the background. You really can't see the bike. Think Vital had a way better shot of it a few weeks back.

Also bare in mind not all of us want to be faster. A vast majority of us still ride bikes just to go have fun and whip about. 26" still excel here. Nothing wrong with 650, I just dislike how the 26" options are getting more and more rare as more manufacturers are forgetting bikes are for fun and thinking they're just for fast times.

Something sort of similar happened with 15mm. It was to be a replacement for 9mm. It ended up on a fair few forks that should realistically have a 20mm. On paper, it gives the bike a lower weight, so is more appealing to the customer, but as we've seen on long legged AM bikes, the fork is often what lets it down, especially 32s in place where 34s and 36s are needed. I feel this is the same issue. All the large companies are swapping to 650 as it's definitely faster on paper, without actually caring about how the bike will operate on the trail for 99% of the people who will end up buying it. It's pretty shallow, but hey, it's the day and age we live in.

TL;DR, build your bike for your needs, not because one way is faster on paper. We all ride differently and a vast majority of us have different needs. Know your style, know your local, and know your bike!
  • 15 1
 I hate to say it, but PB is doing what it's always done: Posting about new bikes. It just happens that a lot of the rigs in the news are altered versions of existing designs to make use of the new sizes.
  • 35 5
 If 27.5" is wrong, 650b is even more wrong. So at some point, you have to say "let's just have a shorthand so we can talk about parts that fit with one another." What 650b really means is a decades-old road wheel style with a ~650mm inflated diameter and the "b" means even more narrow tire profile than "c" in, for example "700c." You know, a roadie wheel.

The real (as in both correct and useful) numbers needed to describe a tire are its bead seat diameter and it's nominal width.
26" (for life!!1!) is really called 559 x (1.9-2.7"), 27.5" is really called 584 x (1.9-2.7") and 29" is really called 622 x (1.9-2.7").

The "650b" mountain bike tire of modern days just happens to have the same bead seat diameter (584) of the ancient 650b road wheel, and so the name got re-used. But obviously old super skinny road tires are never going to be fitted on new 27.5 MTB rims, and so the components have nothing to do with each other. The name should not have been reused.

But the industry's marketing bros decided y'all would be more comfortable with easier numbers. If you're upset about it, you can knock the stupid flat-billed fitted ballcap off their head the next time you see one at a trade show.

Pick a wheel-size nomenclature and be a dick about it.

sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html
  • 3 1
 Wait till you spot the 27.5 tube socks!!!
  • 10 0
 I ride a 26 and in no hurry to ride a 650b....besides,if im going to change my bike eventually I will take note of all the components then the wheelsize but this will all rely on HOW MUCH MONEY I can spend or have...at the end of the day, I look forward on my next ride not worrying if im a 26.
  • 7 11
flag seraph (Mar 29, 2014 at 13:03) (Below Threshold)
 @Snfoilhat you sound like you're mad. Are you mad about something? You should just chill out about wheel sizes. Nothing is going to change.

For the record I have a 650b bike and it's a great wheel size and an easy transition from a 26"-wheeled bike. It's a nice option for those of us who don't want a wagon-wheeled bike but still want the advantage of a wheel size larger than 26".
  • 9 10
 I would never buy a 650b bike for the simple reason that smaller wheels are more fun even if they are slower. i'm not a pro racer and I care about speed, I care about having fun on my bike
  • 5 2
 haha you mean at this point 650b's are overrated? I think 26er's are staying for a while...
  • 11 2
 Jordan96Kelly....I'm not sure you understand the meaning of "literally."
  • 10 3
 A sense of humor @seraph, you lacks it. I could care less about wheel diameters. I am educating the kids on the topic of wheel i>language/i>.
  • 7 1
 Kona is already bringing back 26" for next year
  • 4 6
 @Snfoilhat I don't lack a sense of humor. Your comment: "If you're upset about it, you can knock the stupid flat-billed fitted ballcap off their head the next time you see one at a trade show" is sarcastic, implying genuine feelings regarding the 650b wheelsize.
  • 8 2
 Funny Beardlessmarineider was so neg proped. He's actually right. 650b rims are one inch bigger than the so called 26" rims. Hence they are not 27.5.
  • 4 3
 I think he's getting neg propped as he suggested calling them 650, as they are actually 650, when they're factually not 650. That's a very reasonable thing to downprop, as it's incorrect. As another member gave information to, 650 is actually closer to 580.
  • 4 1
 how about they just have one running report on all current 650b "prototypes"/somewhat smaller frame of the same bike and just update it that way there doesn't have to be a whole big fuss over it
  • 8 0
 My fault, Seraph, you did notice some resentment--but only against the type of marketer described above, not about 650b or anything at all to do with bikes. It's a bad name for a good wheel.
  • 6 1
 He was neg propped because no one gives a crap about what you call it. Just like no one gives a crap that you concurred with him. Crap, now I gotta go take a crap
  • 4 0
 yup, what kubaner said... about the taking a crap part. thanks a lot!
  • 17 5
 If smaller wheels are superior why aren't y'all running 24" wheels on your park bikes? They are stronger, quicker to turn, more nimble, more flickable, more fun, lighter, and EVERY other argument of 26" over 27.5".
  • 10 2
 What we needs is engines then we could all be quicker still. If I wanna go quicker mostly I let my brakes go a bit,guess I'm not pro enough for 27.B
  • 11 3
 PB isn't as full of 27.5'' promotion as its forums are full of whining complainers.
Stick with your 26'' if thats whats fun for you on the trails.
Me, I'll take my carbon components, 800mm riser bars, 27.5''/29'' wheels and the rest of the innovations that have become standard because they work.
I'd rather skip the perpetual backwards debate about wheel size and to read substantive commentary.
  • 3 2
 @iamamodel. 24" are too quick, nimble and flickable making a very scetchy ride and not as fun as 26" if absoulte smallness of wheels was better we would all have bmx sized DH bikes
  • 3 1
 Its all about options. A long as they don't kill off 26" frames in favor of others sizes, then everyone can win.
As far as wheel sizes go, its like any other wheeled off road sport... Wheel size absolutely matters. Sometimes is not the obstacles in the way, its the holes in between them that matters. If you can fill it full of tire then you're more likely to maintain forward movement. And I'm a pro-26"rider...but simply out of pure ignorance. I have never ridden 27.5(its not 650b anymore), and I don't see any need to ride 29".
I also think that if we are going to start upping wheel sizes, then we better stop building trails and DH courses that you can ride a rigid bmx bike down.
  • 2 9
flag jrocksdh (Mar 29, 2014 at 19:30) (Below Threshold)
 Ya what does 650b actually measure out to in inches? Too lazy too search/sorry
  • 7 1
 is this guy foreal ^^
  • 7 12
flag shankyshaft (Mar 29, 2014 at 20:48) (Below Threshold)
 Calm down you 26" bitches, or I'll come to your houses and smack the shit out of you all!!
  • 15 1
 i almost feel bad for saying this, almost.

companies don't give a shit about people who don't speak with their wallets. they're in the business of making money, not making losers on message boards happy. Smile
  • 5 4
 " Its all about options. A long as they don't kill off 26" frames in favor of others sizes, then everyone can win."

This is the key statement for which all my dislike of the wheel size bollocks stems from. It is absolutely pointless to say "if you don't like change stick to 26" or "show manufacturers what you think with your wallets" if 26 are not offered any more. This has been discussed far too often before but essentially manufacturers and media have created hysteria that "26 is dead" plus largely removed all 26 bikes (getting even worse if DH bikes all go 26!) which inevitably means larger wheels sell better- not necessarily because that is people want to buy for this point in time. It is the lack of options and lack of truely listening to customers that gets my goat Wink
  • 5 4
 650 b boring
  • 5 0
 SterlingArcher FTW!!
  • 8 1
 650Betterthan26! or something… like french girls, you just have to try it to see what everyone is talking about. you'll definitely go down faster. #phrasing
  • 4 0
 And I'm simultaneously watching Archer... hearing his voice in your comment.
  • 3 1
 A whole shit storm of comments and nobody's going to mention what bike won the first round of the BDS? Seriously?
  • 4 1
 Too early to start that,26" in 2nd and 4th,have to see how the season pans out.
  • 3 9
flag corywilliam (Mar 30, 2014 at 16:25) (Below Threshold)
 looks like an operator. also who gives a shit about wheel sizes just have fun riding the damn bike
  • 5 0
 The Maestro design has and always will shit all over that kona-operator bull plop. Completely different pivots and overall quality of suspension, and YES I have owned both.
  • 2 1
 i just saying the the curve in front of the bottom bracket looks kinda similar to the operator
  • 1 0
 How about we just say danny harts new glory. We have had lots of new development over the years but for some reason we feel the need to point out the new wheel size every time. Just introduce his new glory and let the wheel size be part of the description. Its just making us lose focus of the whole package of the bike and what other changes or developments may be used. Can we drop the wheel size highlighting and just let it be what it is.
  • 2 1
 The only reason we're looking at the 'new glory' is cause it has bigger wheels. Dumb.
  • 3 1
 hehe giant glory (boner joke)
  • 40 1
 No comment other than I'll start to hate when 26" parts and spares become scarce or more expensive!
  • 10 9
 I totally know what you mean. I can't for the life of me get replacement elastomers for my first gen Manitou fork. Everyone's charging "collector" prices for things like that these days. Sheesh.
  • 18 7
 funny. except modern forks are better in every way than your old manitou. 27.5 wheels are not better in every way than 26" so there is a good reason to be annoyed when 26" disappears
  • 4 0
 Deeply saddened by the industries push of a new standard.... after dropping 8k on a 26" quiver
  • 1 0
 Lol calm down guys 26 is going to be around for a while. 650B just opens up options for riders whod like to switch. I dropped 12k on my dh bike last year. 26" no regrets.
  • 2 0
 yeah, but are really nice tyres (the only bit i really replace regularly) going to be available for years to come, or will my range of options be reduced to a smaller selection as the industry tries its hardest to convince me that my bike is no longer worth making parts for? despite it being perfectly suited to the majority of trails i ride, and noticeably faster and more nimble than any bigger wheeled bikes ive tried.
  • 1 0
 I dont think that will be a problem for a while man
  • 3 0
 Dude, could have bought a nice trailer home for 12k
  • 2 0
 @gabriel - Same here. Reason why I decided eff with the high end and got me a bike of mid-low range with all the rage standards of nowadays. Sorry, I am not willing to pay big bucks for a ride again. Industry is so volatile. Yeah, I miss the "nice" rides but funny thing, this bike is as fun even if it doesn't perform nearly as good.
  • 2 0
 Ya i got the mid-range demo 8 a few years back but i kept blowing up the suspension. So i decided to go all out on a bike that i could ride hard and not have to worry about durability
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez He could have bought a quality used CAR or TRUCK for 12K, but instead a bicycle... WTF is wrong with this picture?
  • 31 0
 There was a time when mountain biking was more of a fringe sport, and the trails people rode were mostly hiking or deer trails. You needed 26s or even 24s to get around tight switchbacks and narrow flights of steps carved into mountain sides. People cut their bars short to 23 and 24 inches to get between woodland trees or have clearance with the mountain side when riding singletrack. Wheels are getting bigger because most "expensive gear" buying People dont ride single track anymore. They like their trails all wide and all their corners all groomed and bermed. No more picking the pair of trees barely shoulder width apart or negotiating a switchback tighter than your wheelbas3. Welcome to the nwo. Trails so smooth and flowy you could ride it on a roadbike Unless you're a noob. Then you'll need the latest 27.5 with 160 of travel to soak up those pesky pebbles in the trail
  • 3 0
 aye .. UCI put a standard of minimum 6 feet width on a DH track .. and now some track has 30 feet wide
  • 4 0
 Wow! UCI put a minimum 6 foot width on DH racetracks? That's like 2 Canadian Meters! Talk about dumbing down the sport!
  • 5 0
 They don't know anything about the sport, all they care about is removing the doping image from road cycling whether they remove the actual doping or not.
  • 2 1
 fatenduro, you are right on about the fact mountain biking was a fringe sport. That is the reason 26" became the standard in the first place. There were acceptable rims and tires available…for no other reason. Why some PB commenters think there is some sort of magic to it, I'll never understand.
  • 3 2
 Isnt more width better for dh? More lines and more speed. Wheres the downside?
  • 1 0
 u can whinge about rules, but world cup racetracks are good tracks and look so fun to ride. along with other millions of low key single tracks.
  • 31 5
 It's disappointing and heartbreaking to see DH bikes with 650B wheels... And not because I'm a wheel size weenie, but because we shouldn't NEED to upgrade to a larger wheel to stay competitive because our tracks are getting buffed out and pedally. That's not DH. That's Enduro/trail riding, and that's not why I bought a DH rig.

Instead of changing all the bikes, geometry and wheel sizes, maybe we should just go back to real DH tracks and courses? This 'see if we can break the land speed record' track obsession is getting REALLY old. That's not why we race DH. I want my NORBA tracks back. Frown
  • 13 0
 tight trails and tecnical riding doesnt sell expensive bikes to 40 year olds. But seriously, a lot of DH trails are becoming a joke. They need to start a downhill cyclocross series where you have a bunch of spandexies racing down the same DH track that the "PRO"'s ride. They'll have to roll the drops and go a bit slower, but it'll take a whole lot more skill.
  • 1 1
 650B and buffed out trails don't sell them to me - although I'm not taken in by all the advertisement mumbojumbo.
  • 2 2
 Its downhill now.
  • 2 1
 I partially agree with you. I think that the racers should take advantage of every opportunity to make themselves faster. However, when we ride for fun, we don't necessarily want to make it easier to roll over the technical terrain. We want to be challenged by experiencing every bit of the rocks and roots because that is more fun. And you could argue the same for other upgrades in cycling technology, but I think a lot those upgrades are probably present to increase the reliability and predictability of your bike. Also, they cater to making a certain faction of riding more fun. 650B may not necessarily be about the quality of the ride, but strictly about performance and that concerns me. Now, I doubt the industry is making this shift without rider benefit in mind. I'm ignorant to the specific benefits of the increased wheel size. Maybe it seriously does improve the quality of a ride. At my height, it may actually make a bike fit more comfortably. At the very least, there are pros and cons on either side of the argument that should be considered.
  • 6 4
 650b is not faster on the smooth, buff courses, it's better in the chunky, rooty stuff. So the move to 650b doesn't come as a result of less technical DH courses, but the opposite.
  • 3 0
 Faster ground coverage seems to be why company teams are going with the 650b this season on tracks that have the capabilities for wide-open, record breaking speeds, not their ability to handle steep, technical terrain.

No wheel size is going to be perfect for every situation; my comment was geared more towards the track advantage necessities rather than attempting to open a debate about what miracles 650B is purportedly capable of.
  • 4 1
 @Roadie. Technical in roadie terms may be rocks and roots, but in the MTB world it means "requiring technique". i.e. braking to slow down for unbermed corners. Changing direction to get around trees and obstacles, managing traction between front and rear wheels over different surfaces, dropping in and changing directions at the same time etc.etc. 650b is the result of straighter DH courses that try to seem tech with roots n rox. But really you can just straight line it and not worry bout braking traction cause the berm at the end will catch you and do all the hard work of turning.
  • 2 1
 yeah, I get that…but then head angles and wheel bases wouldn't be as slack and long, then, right?
for whatever the reason, the size has better roll-over, without being less nimble. I have gone back and forth between them. While I am not riding WC DH, from my experience you are getting more than you are giving up. Apparently enough WC teams feel the same way.
Have you ridden a 650b bike? Or are we just making that call with zero experience.
  • 9 3
 I always laugh when I hear "650b (584mm) is better for non tech fast riding". Obviously the people stating this haven't tried these wheels. I've tried 26, 24 and 650b all at Champery WCup track (which is often used to claim 26in would be better the 650b on that track) and trust me when I say I feel a hell of a lot LESS scared on 650b! It hangs up less on roots and rocks and allows you to plow through stuff more easily. And I say this comparing 26x2.5 with 650bx2.35 which is only 15mm difference!
Now go out there try a 650b bike AND then IF you still don't like it be a d*ck about it.
Oh and don't get me started on the 26in is soo much more flickable and fun then 650b...oh please...
  • 4 0
 Sintra makes a very good point which could be expanded on- there is no scientific evidence currently for any of the claims for any of the wheel sizes in any respect. Everything is subjective, anecdotal and let's face it driven by marketing or common (mis)conceptions one way or another. To be honest (based on a few rides) I like the idea of 650B more than 29 if given a choice between the two but when you consider the very small difference to 26 you kind of have to wonder if 26-> 650B is worth anything in the real world.
  • 1 0
 Interesting! Thanks for the input, Sintra!
  • 5 2
 650b and 26 ultimately are so close in size that mere amateurs wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a 4% change in wheel diameter. but not me of course. I CAN TELL.
  • 1 0
 Um its not just for pedaling,, the increased contact patch and wheel size has improved grip it also smooths out the trail more, it make rock gardens easier to ride, this in turn means the future will be even more extreme terrain to keep up with the larger wheel making it easier. its not all about pedaling.
  • 1 0
 @beardlessmarinrider rollover, weight, inertia, contact patch, and stiffness are all easy to calculate/test. Get the same rim, same hub, same tire, lace up with the same spokes, pump to the same pressure, and compare (which is exactly what Giant has done in their 2014 catalog book). Sure it comes from a mfr, but it's still scientific. "Feel" and "flickability" are the only ones I can think of that aren't scientific. Still never ridden 650b but I think the physics seem pretty straightforward.
  • 2 0
 The theory related to an isolated wheel is easy enough to calculate but the reality is likely very different taking in to account the wide range of variables in the real world and within the complete bike with the rider as a system rather than an isolated math problem making many assumptions about a single wheel. The real world is what matters and scientifically showing a wheel is faster and under what conditions or assumptions this may be true for has categorically not been achieved by anyone anywhere and it likely never will be due to the huge amount of variables, many of which can not be accurately controlled. Besides all this... remember Giant telling everyone 29ers are fastest and best ... FACT... no wait, actually they don't sell as well as we hoped... 650B is definitely best now Wink
  • 18 0
 That bike's not spotted, it's just plain black!
  • 3 0
 oh i get it. homonym
  • 1 1
 super dry
  • 10 0
 This is all well and good, bikes are for fun, so if its fun...more power to ya.
I'm not sure if it exists but I'd love to read a bout a bike company or parts company that centers their business model around longevity & value. I want to read about a sick bike where the complete build is under $3k, regardless of frame material. I love to read about boutique bikes that cost $10k as much as the next guy but where is the company committed to building bullet proof bikes at reasonable prices??? Maybe it does not exist, maybe I should start one....now if I could just find that $10 million I misplaced.
  • 2 4
 Sounds like your talking about specialized
Or airborne even?
  • 6 0
 YT or canyon are the companies you are looking for.
  • 3 5
 Giant, Spesh and trek. They make bikes for whatever you want that would work for less than 3k. (Obviously they won't be the best, but they'd work and be reliable)
  • 4 0
 Dont think yt or canyon really work pricewise in the US
  • 1 4
 And they aren't really bombproof...
  • 2 1
 What aren't bombproof? Canyon and YT? Every bit as bombproof as any other manufacturer out there and more so than many.
  • 2 0
 You can't tell me the 3k Glory isn't bombproof.
  • 1 0
 I know at least 5 persons who are disapointed with the reliability of their Canyon frames. These are too light so not stiff enough.
  • 1 0
 I could tell you at least 5 people who aren't happy with cubes, lappieres, yetis, specialized and many more. I'd say canyon are the most common bike in Ireland now and I have heard very few complaints about them relative to the number out there. And their customer service is exceptional when things do go wrong.
  • 1 0
 When I say they are disapointed, I'm talking about cracked welds and that kind of things. Canyon customer service is inexistant in France and since they sell directly to the customer, not a single shop wants to service these bikes. So if you have on in France, loads of patience won't be enough.
  • 18 5
 f*ck.. It's really happening, huh?
  • 6 0
 No.. Nothing is happening unless you go buy a new 650b. The manufacturers can make all the new bikes they want, but if we don't buy them, they won't be making them for long.
  • 10 0
 "Add Danny Hart to the ever-growing list of riders who have been spotted on 27.5” downhill bikes..."

Add ME to the list of people who don't care.
OUR list is bigger, and bigger is better, right?
  • 3 1
 more apathy here, too. it's gotten old
  • 15 5
 No more wheelsize nonsense please. It's getting silly
  • 2 0
 Forget bicycles have wheels... But tell me more about the suspension....
  • 1 0
 yeah... i reckon 9.5 inch i-2-i . I hope Giant would forget about maestro on this new DOWNHILL bike and start making it more aggressive .... even GT has designed i-drive specifically for DH bike... all and all I hope Danny could remain on the podium for the rest of 2014.
  • 3 0
 I hope he can stay on his bike, let alone the podium
  • 5 1
 Last year 26 won P. And that is a groomed and fast track. Pietermaritz this year will be even more stacked for enduro style bikes, more riders are on decent 650 bikes. Chances are high that 650 will take the lead. Not because they are faster but because that track deevolved into a slightly angled am track
  • 5 0
 And because EVERYONE is on 650b. I was looking forward to a real shoot out this year with half the field on 26"....now that 90% of the riders are on 650b, everytime someone wins on one they're going to say, 'see, 650b is better'.
  • 6 0
 Last year superb athletes won pmb not a specific bike
  • 13 2
 Stevie Smith will be riding 26" wheels this year other than the opener. What will the bike manufacturers say when Stevie keeps beating everyone on bigger wheels? lol 26" wheels winning events is a BIG problem for the bike industry. Go Stevie!!! Show the world just how capable 26ers really are!!!!!
  • 2 0
 Sik mik is winning this year Smile
  • 2 0
 I too hope Sik Mik wins this year. He has turned into the new Steve Peat - he's had silver more times than the Lone Ranger's stablehand. But like Peaty and the opposite of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, one day we'll see him under the rainbow (jersey).
  • 2 0
 Hmm there will still be Minaar, Gwin, Sam Hill and Steve smith on 26" as far as I'm aware, unfortunately three of them will be recovering from injuries so 650b might end up having some false evidence behind it... I'm seriously hoping Gwin can dominate again!
  • 5 0
 Ha well while I know its a joke, that is Greg Minaars home track which gives him an advantage AND Mitch Ropelato who was only ever a top 15 rider suddenly qualified second on the 29er. The comments on this page about wheel size are beyond dumb. I have yet to meet a person who has gone to 650b and desired to go back to 26 inch wheels. Get over it, the change is happening.
  • 1 0
 I know 2 people who didn't like 650b and are back on 26"
  • 6 1
 Oh god, I'm in my 40s andI ride a 650b Trance. That means I must be a shit rider and rich! I'd happily sacrifice my shit riding ability to be rich.
  • 3 0
 Usually we could say that the results would speak for themselves with regards to wheel size, but at this point all the top racers are going to be making the switch to 650b at the same time. We still won't really have much of an idea about which is faster.
  • 2 0
 Very good point. All switch to 650B, 650B wins... 650B is the best right? Smile There is no scientific evidence currently for any of the claims for any of the wheel sizes in any respect. Everything is subjective, anecdotal and let's face it driven by marketing or common (mis)conceptions one way or another. I'd love to see some proper scientific real world comparisons (the existing ones are far, far from scientific)... but I guess this is not in the manufacturer's interests when selling certain wheel sizes only drives sales far better Wink
  • 2 0
 Unfortunately a true scientific comparison would basically be impossible since the testers always know what wheel size they are riding, and would thus be influenced by their personal preconceived ideas of how each wheel should ride. In a real scientific test you would have to have testers ride bikes and give feedback without knowing what wheel size they are actually on (which is impossible). Otherwise any results and feedback will always be subject to confirmation bias or possible placebo effects.
  • 2 0
 I don't disagree about the challenges but saying it's hard then passing off opinion as fact regarding any wheel size (whether it be opinions here or manufacturer claims) is just daft. All sorts of challenges like ensuring statistically similar power throughout a lap which is tough but could be done with something like principal component analysis of the power waveforms and identifying areas of highest variance between laps then doing the usual stats of the resulting PC scores. The science exists and we test far more complicated stuff in other areas Wink I'd love to see the effect of a placebo X wheel size Smile
  • 7 1
 alright, lets hear the 650b hate come in...
  • 16 1
 If it's one thing that doesn't make sense, it's a short rider on a 650b.
  • 4 4
 Or a DH-specific race rig with 650B wheels...
  • 2 0
 Ok. I hate it, it's dumb and stoopit and nobody should ride them its just a marketing gimmick and 26ers will be all the rage again in 2 years.

how's that?

OTHER than the wheels beings a different size, does this bike, or any 650b do anything differently suspension-wise than a 26er or a 29er?

Truthfully, I couldn't care less. I know this for a fact, I tried to. Just couldn't make it happen.
  • 6 0
 but danny was so quick on his 26" glory
  • 5 1
 Please, please just continue arguing in the "Spesh goes 650B" thread. I just can't take it anymore.
  • 2 1
 Will this b the end on Dannys awesome style on a bike, 27.5" def tonned down Blienkys style, watching SB 07,08 seasons on DVD he seemed faster more exciting to watch, next well c the return of Ghey skin suits! Hopefull Danny just getting ready for the South African WC leg, I just hope the Sarfie trail builders have stepped it up to legitimise that track and bring some narly surprises to WC teams and the marketing agents! Go Danny!
  • 1 0
 trust me danny dosnt look any less wild on this bike !!
  • 1 0
 Have u watched the bds video??? Me and savmeister saw him riding this in November last year and he's faster and still stylish as f*ck on a bike
  • 2 1
 So....while all you nit wits argue over something as stupid as wheel size, did anyone notice that this prototype seems to have two lower shock mounts. its hard to see and fuzzy on zoom....but thats what it looks like. Makes sense to me.
  • 1 0
 Still I'm very hapy riding my 26" bike. Will I am more happy riding that 27" shit? I do not think so. My wallet neither. In a while our bikes will look like that humbirdhum.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/velocipede-play.jpg
  • 1 0
 the whole wheel size thing has turned into a pissing contest! the wheel size advantages might be great for roll speed and all that great happy bull shit but just because a persons bike can go faster than the other guys dose not necessarily mean that he will be the fastest on the mountain(no disrespect to Danny) . Moral of the story- wheel size dose not make you faster it makes the bike faster. AND BESIDES GUYS EVEN IF IT DOSE GIVE YOU THAT MUCH ADVANTAGE, THEN EVERY RIDER WILL HAVE ONE IN A 650B VERSION THUS DEFEATING THE POINT OF THE 650B SPEED ADVANTAGE.
  • 1 0
 Innovation is awesome. Lighter carbon parts, better damped lighter stiffer suspension, dropper posts, 1x11 gearing simplicity, press fit bb's and big wheels...
Wait wait-the last two??!!

No-one raged on about how dropper posts and xx1 were marketing BS and not great innovation, yet big wheels have stirred up a right storm. Please. Offer them if you must but if they are as great as the marketing makes out then why push them so hard on people?
  • 1 0
 I remember quite clearly how everyone on PB hated dropper posts when they first came out. "Gimmick". "I'll just stop and lower my post by hand". Same with 15mm thru axles. Same with carbon parts/frames/wheels. Same with trigger shifters. Hell, even suspension was once though of as a gimmick that would go away.

The only reason people oppose new technologies is that they are afraid that what they have will become obsolete. But the truth is, those same people will adopt the new technology long before their "outdated" gear is obsolete. I still see guys on the trail with rigid forks, friction shifters, and they STILL appear like they're having fun. Maybe the fun factor just has to do with being on a bike. Period.
  • 1 0
 Personally I don't believe big wheels have even reached the status of gimmick. With a gimmick you can see something as different but pointless. With the big wheels people can see the difference AND see the advantages but they aren't the kind of advantages that help riders have a more fun time. I could go quicker in Lycra. I could roll faster with really big wheels. A motor would make me quicker still. But I am after FUN (okay the motor might give me that!)
Dropper posts can allow more descending FUN, better suspension can mean ploughing rock gardens and nailing drops which would have seen older forks snapped and leads to more FUN.
More reliable bikes through better drivetrains and components lead to less interrupted FUN.

If I wanted to go fast at the expense of fun yes I would ride a big wheeled bike in Lycra with 80mm of suspension. Or just ride road.
Let's innovate in ways which genuinely benefit us and excites us.
  • 1 0
 15mm is a gimmick.
  • 1 0
 Agreed. Can't see what advantage a 15mm axle offers over a 20mm... If they are saying smaller axle=less weight then why are they trying to sell us 35mm bars and stems and claiming they can save weight?

Some things are sold with no advantage to the consumer. Possibly 15mm axles included-certainly press fit bb's. But what I am arguing with wheels is a larger size does give an advantage (and so is not a gimmick)-it is just an advantage most of us don't want as we're riding to have fun not get the trail out the way as quick as possible so we can head home.
  • 1 0
 Your logic is a bit lost on me. To me, riding fast IS fun. If I can ride faster, it doesn't mean I'll get the trail out of the way. It means I can cover even more ground.
  • 1 1
 1 second for every 3 minutes isn't really much of an advantage...
  • 1 0
 The real problem with 650B hate is that there is no way to objectively determine which wheel size is better. The reason you can't make that determination is because different wheel sizes dictate different frame geometry configurations.

So if you can't design 3 bikes of differing wheel sizes that are geometrically identical and that will give similar suspension performance, how can you tell which is better? you can't, so the logical conclusion is either (A) certain wheel sizes are superior in different situations or (B) whatever the hell you want to have fun riding is what you should ride. When you slam any of the wheel sizes based on performance you sound like a closed-minded weenie bitch. When you piss and moan about how expensive a new 650B bike is going to be you need to realize nobody is putting a gun to your dim little cranium to buy a 650B bike, and that 26" wheels aren't going anywhere any time soon.

Everybody just stfu already and have fun on the wheel of your choosing. These are different tools for different applications, but also know that any of the wheel sizes are going to roll you down along a trail.
  • 1 0
 Do you really think the most zealous 650b brand would want any of their riders on 26"? Or that a tiny change like this is going to drastically affect Danny's fate this season, once he's acclimated to the change? Taking cues from riders who have almost no say in what they ride is idiotic. And interpreting race results at the super-elite level as proof of anything gear related (or applicable to your puny, mortal skills) is pretty stupid, too.

When the guys I know personally (whose riding styles I admire) start buying big wheels and saying that 650b has completely rocked their world and they're never going back, I'll take this shit seriously. But guess what-- those guys all roll 26" and every one has come back from a 650b test ride saying what I said: meh.

I honestly don't give 2 f*cks what anyone rides, but overall this has been a surreal wave of fanaticism to behold. And the worst is yet to come.
  • 1 0
 I have a DH bike, a slopestyle bike and a XC bike. All 26". I'm happy with all 3. What exactly is switching to 27.5 going to do for me? I hear a lot of arguing about this. I still don't understand what improvement I will see by switching. I'm being totally sincere with this question...
  • 7 3
 If they are ALL on a 650b, the advantage of riding one will be what?
  • 8 1
 If everyone has 650b, and you have a 26", you could argue that you have the disadvantage
  • 2 1
 You wouldn't need to argue that. It would just be fact.
  • 8 5
 Until Minaar wins again on 26inch and 650b will be revealed for what it is...a marketing scheme.
  • 2 0
 by the reaction of pb'ers you would think racing 26" would be an advantage to all the ones racing 650b Wink
  • 1 0
 Dude, I honestly hope the more tech tracks prove that to be the case.
  • 2 0
 @cmkneeland. Minaar won on his home track! Just like Remi Thirion won at Andorra. Are you saying that every improvement must instantly result in a win? In that case we might as well stop trying to improve bikes at all as not one single advance in the last 20 years has probably resulted in more than a half second gain in performance.

Local knowledge is more important that any incremental advance in technology and that is what 650b is. Its an advance just like every other innovation and most of the time they are not backwards compatible either so quit your bitchin. Why not bitch when Fox brought out a FIT cartridge that wouldn't fit in your old 40? Or when old brakes wont accept pads from this year.
  • 2 0
 Ok, I'll concede that Minnaar could have won solely on being the rider most familiar with SP's track. But the jury is still out as to whether 650b is an advancement for either DH or freeride. My complaint is, it isn't necessary to force consumers to buy DH bikes with a wheel that isn't clearly an advancement. If bike companies offered both options then I wouldn't give a shit. Trek is offering the Park Session which is still 26inch. Commencal still offers the Supreme FR in 26 inch. Great..they're looking out for their customers. Hopefully other companies will follow suit.
  • 2 1
 Well that doesn't work with economies of scale and you would just end up with both wheel sizes being more expensive. And secondly there is almost no valid reason to stick with 26 inch wheels. People who claim they are more fun are talking through their holes. If you can't have fun on a 650b bike then you probably can't have fun on a 26 inch bike. I haven't seen a decrease in whips or style since their introduction, have you? And as for being less agile...again I can't see this having any noticeable impact as the change is relatively small. And also why build bikes to be agile on very tight and twisty tracks when the majority are now wider, faster and rougher? Bikes now do everything better than they did 3 years ago so all these arguments are null and void.
  • 2 0
 Fair reason I can think of; being a short arse like me, bigger wheels means longer bike and more difficult to throw around for the vertically challenged.

If bike manufacturers make the bikes adjustable enough you could run a 26" in a 650b frame and not have any change from a 26" frame. Dunno if they would do that though? People run 24" wheels in 26" frames for example.
  • 2 0
 That's my biggest beef. I like a fun freeride bike, but since those are dying I'm forced to run a full on DH. I prefer a sub 17inch stay and a 64 degree HA. 650b requires longer stays, longer wheel bases, slacker angles, shorter travel, and a heavier front end. So just because they MIGHT make a world cup racer 1 second faster I have to put up with a bike that rides like a tank? It's so stupid. I feel bad for guys in the 5'5" to 5'8" range who freeride. I'm 6' and I like a smaller, more flickable bike. Hopefully bike companies won't abandon those of us who like to ride for fun.
  • 2 0
 I think the biggest thing for most people with the whole 650b thing is, yea maybe a tad faster but is it more fun!? I doubt that.
  • 1 0
 Why does everyone equate going faster to having less fun?
  • 1 0
 If you go faster but it feels less intense it might not be such a buzz? Might be that we ride 24" hard tails down trails it would be way more fun? ha ha.
  • 1 0
 The advantage will be to stay competitive. The guys on the 26 ers on pedaly tracks will get left behind. I have 2 26" bikes and don't plan on switching but I do believe 27.5 is a bit faster
  • 14 1
 DH tracks shouldn't be pedally...that's what enduro is for.
  • 2 0
 Shouldn't be but are. Opinion vs fact. Again, I love my 26" bikes but those 27.5 bikes are fast
  • 3 0
 Didn't Minaar win Worlds in SA on a 26" V10?
  • 1 0
 Yes, I think he did. I'm saying if all but a few switch to 27.5, which it looks like that's going to be the case, the 26ers might have a disadvantage. That's all. Again, it all depends on the track.
  • 1 0
 Might be that the 26ers have the advantage?
  • 2 0
 Honestly, who knows. We'll just have to wait and see. I don't care either way, cause I'm not switching any time soon. I won't hate if 650b is faster though.
  • 4 0
 STAY ON YOUR BIKE DANNY
  • 2 1
 If everyone is going to be riding the world cup with 27.5 this year I wonder if/how they will convince the public that it is faster than 26.
  • 4 2
 It's only faster in certain, specific conditions. In tight trees and G-out drops and technical rock rallies, 26" is still more beneficial than 650B. On flat, flowy, buffed out, wide bermed trails, 650B will be faster. Different tools for different tracks. However, this DH shouldn't be about how fast we can go on an open clearing motorway that points downhill. It should be tight, technical, challenging and steep terrain that requires all 8" of suspension and 26" wheels.
  • 2 1
 Actually the overall wheelsize is around maybe 1'-1.5' bigger in diameter, so it it not like that would hamper you. On the other hand, the lower bottom bracket (in relation to axle) WILL help you to lay the bike down better, therefore corner better. Simple enough, I think.
  • 2 1
 Sad fact is Cherouvim, the public doesn't need convincing, when a brand cuts off 26" and only makes 650b that's all a bike shop has to sell, the main bicycle market is middle aged men who buy from bicycle shops and trust the shops salesman/mechanic implicitly... if they only have 650b to sell then of course they're going to sing its praises and say its better - to get you to buy their stock!!! The convincing then does itself, if you'd just spent $6k on a new bike you want to justify that to yourself and will convince yourself and tell your buddys its great, its just human nature!
Big wheel sizes have definitely been forced on the market especially considering a lot of people still haven't ridden 650b as they're so 'new'.
  • 5 3
 If you did your homework, you'd know people weren't buying 26" bikes before 650b took over. This little "26" for life clique on PB is a tiny sample size of the bike buying public.
Have you ridden one? I doubt it. I wouldn't go back.
  • 3 2
 They weren't buying them because they already had one! Hence why bike companies came up with ingenious idea of 'slightly larger wheels' with stated ridiculously blown out performance improvements... kudos to the MTB brands for finding away to generate new sales, its just sad they're now eliminating 26" to force new sales
  • 3 1
 Because everyone already had one???!!?!? Why would companies even bother developing, marketing and manufacturing any new bikes if everybody already had them?…do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

Besides, 29ers were selling just fine…
  • 5 2
 I love 650b...because of it I just got my new 26er half price
  • 2 1
 26" wheels will always be the Be all and end all of wheel sizes. They've been around for donkey's years so there here to stay for those who like it old school.
  • 1 0
 i'll stick with 26 inch wheels strictly due to the weight savings so i can jump all the bumps that the 650Bs are rolling over
  • 1 0
 My take is 650b is an advantage cause the braking bumps are 26 inch but soon the bumps will be 27.5 and were back to were we started except were poorer for it!
  • 2 0
 mmm dat on one rigid fork in the background
  • 2 0
 he,s been riding this since october/november last year
  • 3 0
 Saw this ages ago!
  • 1 0
 Didn't anyone notice the 650b wheels on Marcelo Gutierrez's bike in the last giant video?
  • 1 0
 Even if I was going to go 650 DH I'd go with KHS. First on the scene, or at least it seems that way.
  • 1 0
 Does someone know something about new boxxers? should be coming prety soon with the new charger cartridge and 27,5 maybe?
  • 1 0
 Am I the only one who thinks more companies should do paint schemes like this?
  • 2 2
 Great, first I find out that I can't enduro because I have a 26" bike. Now I am finding out that I won't be able to downhill until I get a 27.5" bike.
  • 1 0
 So basically if everyone is riding a 650B, no one is really getting an advantage...
  • 1 1
 650b is actually not 27.5 it's 27. It's the industry the have called it 27.5/650b. Nice to see Giant keeping it real and sticking with aluminium
  • 1 0
 Anyone notice the rigid fork skinny tire guy in relaxed fit jeans? Is this the latest pit bike trend?
  • 1 0
 I converted my 2013 glory into 650b works just fine. Video and pics posted on my link
  • 1 0
 I converted my 2013 Glory into a 650B works just fine. Pictures/video on my link.
  • 1 0
 I'm still waiting for a 650b yt.
  • 1 0
 Haha, shouldn't be but are. Opinion vs fact.
  • 1 0
 We all no that big wheels are faster
_____0^0___________O^O____________
  • 2 2
 Sure is going to be boring as to watch this years world cup on big wheels and pedal heavy courses.
  • 2 0
 I'm happy with my 26s
  • 1 0
 I love my 26" that's all I got nice bike though
  • 1 0
 I'm trying to care about this topic, but I just can't...
  • 1 0
 Got to say though, loving the stealth black look.
  • 1 0
 All Giants are going 27.5. This isn't news.
  • 1 0
 27650bandahalfspecificfoofle.
  • 1 0
 nice mud guard ahahahah, seriously those things belong in moto...period
  • 1 0
 sei palavras eso espera para ver oqi vaidar
  • 1 1
 Penny Farthing and big moustaches forever!!!
  • 2 2
 Another one bites the dust...
  • 2 0
 hahaha nice
  • 1 0
 He need 9,5" Rotor
  • 1 1
 Bolshevism
  • 3 6
 Well it is a trailcenter type race so best place to test for Pietermaritzburg... Don't think he'd ride that in Champery...
  • 1 0
 I'll wager he does.
  • 1 0
 I'll take that bet... we'll have to wait to after Pietermaritzburg as its a special track that requires prototype one offs apparently, that is until a 26" took it last year...
  • 1 0
 Of course he will ride it at champery and everywhere else. Its his new downhill bike and will be in production next year.
  • 1 3
 NO MORE 27.5 D:
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