Field Test: Deviate Claymore - High Pivot Heaven

Aug 17, 2022 at 12:42
by Mike Kazimer  


PINKBIKE FIELD TEST

Deviate Claymore



Words by Mike Kazimer; photography by Dave Trumpore


On paper the Claymore looks like a brute, with a high pivot suspension design, 29” wheels, and 165mm of rear travel. It was a slightly different story out on the trail, where Deviate's latest carbon creation ended up surprising testers with its versatility.

Deviate stepped into the high pivot world back in 2016, so they're no strangers to the potential pros and cons of the design. With the Claymore, the goal was to make a long travel enduro bike that was still playful enough to remain entertaining on slightly mellower terrain. The bike has a true high pivot suspension layout, with the main pivot located nearly halfway up the seat tube. That positioning gives it a rearward axle path of 21mm, and relatively high anti-rise values, which can help preserve the geometry during heavy braking.
Deviate Claymore Details

• Travel: 165mm / 170mm fork
• Full carbon frame
• Wheel size: 29"
• Head angle: 64.3°
• Seat tube angle: 78°
• Reach: 490mm
• Chainstay length: 441
• Sizes: M, L (tested), XL
• Weight: 34.7 lb / 15.7 kg
• Price: $3,696 (frame + Float X2 shock)
www.deviatecycles.com

On the topic of geometry, the Deviate has a 64.3-degree head angle, the steepest (although I wouldn't exactly call it 'steep') out of the seven bikes we had on test. It also had the longest reach, at 490mm for a size large. That number is tempered by a 78-degree seat angle, which helps ensure the bike doesn't feel overly long while climbing. The chainstays measure 441mm on all three available sizes.

From a distance, the Deviate sure looks like all of the housing runs through the main frame, but that's only true for the dropper post. The rear brake and derailleur housing sit in a channel underneath the top tube before traveling through the swingarm on the way to their final destinations. Funny enough, the only real noise complaint we had came from the dropper post housing – adding foam tubing around that line is highly recommended.


Other frame details include room for up to a 2.6” rear tire, a threaded bottom bracket, and grease ports on the idler and pivot bearings. The 18-tooth idler uses two industrial grade sealed bearings, and the bracket that surrounds it helps ensure that the chain can't come off.

The Claymore is available as a frame only with a Float X2 shock for $3,696 USD. That's not cheap, but it is around $550 less expensive than a Santa Cruz Megatower frame and shock. Complete bikes aren't available, but Deviate does have an online configurator that allows customers to select the parts they want and then send that information to a dealer to receive a quote.

Our test bike was built up with a kit that included a Shimano XT drivetrain and 4-piston brakes, DT Swiss EX 511 wheels, a OneUp dropper post, and a Fox Float X2 / Fox 38 suspension combo. The Claymore is also coil shock compatible for riders interested in going that route.





Climbing

“Not bad” is the sort of faint praise that typically gets handed out to bikes in this category. After all, if you're pedaling around a bike with 165mm of travel the focus is clearly on descending (or at least it should be), and climbing is typically a means to an end. The Deviate isn't your typical enduro bike, though, and it ended up being an extremely competent climber, with balanced handling that elevates it well above the 'not bad' designation.

That steep seat angle provides a nice and upright climbing position, and the chainstay length combined with the rearward axle path creates makes it easy to stay centered on the bike – there wasn't ever any sense of being too far over the rear wheel, even on really steep climbs.

The front end steering is a touch quicker than some of the slacker bikes that we had on test, which makes the Claymore easier to maneuver in tighter sections of trail, especially compared to the Commencal Meta SX or Contra MC. The Claymore also happens to be one of those bikes that rides lighter than it actually is – I'd happily head out for a long, multi-hour pedal on this bike, something that I'd be less inclined to do on some of the bigger bruisers in our group of test bikes.

The idler was trouble free, and it was only on the wettest and muddiest days that a little extra rumbling arose from the dirty chain traveling over the idler pulley. Otherwise it was smooth and silent, free of any noticeable drag.




Descending

The Claymore defies expectations about how a high-pivot, idler-equipped bike should behave. Yes, it has excellent traction, and smooths out rough sections of trail incredibly well, but there was a liveliness to its handling that was a welcome surprise.

The Contra MC still takes the cake when it comes to outright straightline speed and stability, and the Intense Tracer has a more poppy feel to it, but the Claymore is very well-rounded, with neutral, predictable manners. Bump absorption was excellent, no matter the size of the hit, and I can only imagine how much grip a coil shock would deliver. The Float X2 felt like an appropriate choice, though, and there was plenty of end-stroke ramp up to keep it from bottoming out on bigger hits.
Timed Testing

Our timed lap started relatively flat with some pedally sections, then dropped into steeper, choppier terrain, with a series of stair-step drops, a few root doubles, and some fast corners. Don't forget that timing is just one of many ways to judge a bike, and fast doesn't always mean it's the best for everyone.

"I put down my third fastest time on the Deviate (out of 7 bikes). The times were all very tight, and that result fit in with what I expected - I felt fast every time I was on the Claymore, so it wasn't surprising that it would be towards the front of the pack." - Mike Kazimer

The high pivot design and the fact that the bike gets longer as it goes through its travel does place it closer to the middle of the pack when it comes to cornering; it doesn't have the same propensity for berm blasting as the Transition Patrol, for example. Still, it never felt unwieldy, and its smooth, comfortable ride put this bike on all of our short lists of favorites.

Overall, the Claymore would make for a great race bike, or a long-travel do-it-all machine, with enough travel to handle unexpected surprises, and geometry that allows it to shine on a variety of tracks. Yes, the idler adds a little more complication, but it does take a standard 126 link chain, and didn't cause any trouble during our test period.





Pros

+ Excellent suspension performance, especially over small and medium square-edged bumps
+ Not just a singleminded DH machine – it's still fun on moderate terrain
Cons

- No size small, and the chainstay length is the same on all sizes
- Dropper post housing rattled in frame






The 2022 Enduro Bike Field Test is presented by Rapha, POC, and Continental. Thanks for keeping us dressed, safe, and rolling rubber side down.





280 Comments

  • 153 0
 Can we get a bikepacking review of this one too?
  • 49 0
 We need a Packduro field test.
  • 80 1
 Ha, I think Matthew Fairbrother's got that covered.
  • 165 4
 For some reason @mikekazimer didn't like my "efficiency test" suggestion of riding each bike 100 miles with the Grim Donut strapped to his back. I feel like we've really let the community down here.
  • 6 0
 @brianpark: I'd support that test, especially if the 100 miles is along some twisty tree filled trails.
  • 39 0
 @brianpark: Don't you have interns?
  • 19 0
 What sort of maniac would use this for bike packing, oh that's right, I forgot.
  • 65 2
 This bike shows that how a design is implemented is more important than a given suspension layout. Also, as enduro bikes are becoming more one-dimensional race tools, it's nice to see some options like this. This looks like a great daily driver that would still be a great time for mellower rides. For those of us who can only afford one mountain bike, that's a winning setup.
  • 58 16
 One who can only afford one mountain bike, maybe won't put the $3822 frame+shock option at the top of the list?
  • 15 1
 @Uuno: It's a bit rich for my blood too, but I could see ponying up for one if I had more to spend on a new bike. I also suspect a mostly SLX built, non Kashima fork etc. could be built for what passes for a normal bike price these days.
  • 20 0
 @Uuno: I'll bet there's a lot of folks out there who may just live in a small apartment and only have room for one bike.
  • 13 0
 @chubby5000: This is me. Well...one mtb. Thank you, stumpy evo.
  • 5 0
 I probably wouldn't choose a 165mm bike as my one bike. But I agree it is nice when longer travel bikes are good for trail riding. Because the more versatile it is, the more you use you get out of it...for those of us that don't live at a bike park.
  • 1 4
 @foggnm: horses for courses for sure. But for riding out west where 80% would be fine on an xc/downcountry bike but the other 20% is testpiece trails and park laps, a bike like this is the best compromise.
  • 3 6
 @andstuff13: Yeah-I'm on a Ripmo AF at the moment-same travel bracket. Kind of a sweet spot, but interesting that this bike seems to go up about as well and have a little more capability on the down.
  • 3 1
 @Uuno: I can't afford an mtb, but I have two quiver-killers with implemented designs
  • 21 0
 @wyorider: Donno. I ride out west in the pacNW and my 'do everything' bike is a 160x160 29er with DD MaxxGrip tires that I wish was a 180/170. To me, the only real reason to go with a shorter travel bike is if your trails are not steep, rowdy, or demanding enough to merit it. If I'm riding rolling foothills with small kickers to flat with no doubles, steeps or rock gardens in sight, sign me up for a downcountry bike. But saying "out west this is all you need" seems like an odd thing to say.

I could ride all the same trails I currently do on a hardtail. But that doesn't mean I'd maximize the "fun per ride" utility of bikes very well.

I've never really understood the idea of deliberately underbiking yourself just because you can.

I also have to think that I'm probably in the norm of the type of person who would buy this bike, and I'm not that 'out there' amongst other bicycle enthusiasts.

I'm willing to spend some money on bikes, I have a DH bike, and a do everything bike, and a road bike and a commuter bike, and I'm looking at an E-bike since I'm going to be moving back to the south near Kanuga. This bike would slot pretty nicely into the "do everything category."

If I didn't have a DH bike or my enduro bike, my first thought definitely wouldn't be "I wish I had even less bike than either of those. I'm gonna look at downcountry bikes to replace those."
  • 6 0
 @wyorider: "out west where 80% would be fine on an xc/downcountry bike"

huh?
  • 3 0
 @chubby5000: I have a folding bike for sale for those folks, see buy sell.
  • 7 0
 @wyorider: Western Saskatchewan?
  • 7 0
 @Uuno: I only have one mountain bike, though it's quite a lot cheaper than this (I do have a road bike and a pub/turbo bike). If I could afford the Deviate, would I buy the Deviate or two bikes for half the price?
That would actually be quite an interesting test for PB to do - top end "do it all" trail/enduro bike Vs deore/SLX level DC/trail bike plus dedicated enduro bike for the same total price. Which setup is better to live with?
  • 1 0
 I expect the Patrol will also score points as a daily driver. Cheaper alu versions available too!
  • 1 2
 @foggnm: wrong, the more versatile bike is, the worst job it does in each category. It is like a multitool... it does the job when you do not have the proper tool, but does it so so
  • 2 1
 This is why I spent 6k on a dirt bike instead of a new mtb….
  • 1 0
 I am "out west", in Southern California. As my XC bike only gets used for XC racing, I basically only have one MTB, and that is a 170/165mm bike. And I use up the vast majority of it every ride (coils set up for my weight). I could under bike if I wanted to, but I would be riding around a lot of features I enjoy.

If I were to add a bike, it would be a DH bike. I can't imagine wanting to go with less travel where I ride.
  • 3 0
 @William42: Ride in the same area... my favorite trails are steep gnarly double black+ kinda stuff. Last year was a 165/170... this year 140/160. Am loving the switch. I think it really depends on the bike and build. My 140 is built with a suspension platform that allows for an all-day quick pedaling machine but is very progressive and burly and so has your back when it comes to the steep and deep. It's been an interesting and eye opening season with regards to what a smaller bike is not just capable of, but is comfortable doing.

There's no getting around it... you do give up some comfort and ability at the edge and it's been interesting giving that up while gaining more pop, maneuverability, jumpy-ness, quick & less effort climbing and faster long rides plus ease of getting through slower tech sections. You don't ever feel bogged down into too much travel.

This year it turns out for me, a shorter travel yet aggressive progressive bike has been a faster enduro race bike as enduros never tend to be that gnarly.

I think next season I'll go to a 150/160... as I'm suspecting that might be the ultimate sweet spot.
  • 1 0
 @wyorider:Of course you can. But I'm not going to make my Transition Spire my do-it-all sled....nor would I want to take it to places like Moab with lots of tech.
  • 1 0
 @valrock: And I get that logic. After all I have 3 bikes in the garage. However, I'll say that some bikes just do lots of things better. And I find even on my 170mm bike (Spire)....I want to ride it where it isn't mean to be great because it is so fun. Likewise, my Nukeproof Reactor (130mm) I've taken to the bike park and on every sketchy downhill trail I have access to....and it did great. So for me anyway, I like when my bikes can pedal well but still descend like beasts. What I don't like is when a bike isn't really that great in its given category....and there are lots of those!
  • 1 1
 @JSTootell: I All depends on where you start too. I've been on mtn bikes since the mid-90s and so what modern bikes are capable of that we previously did on lesser bikes really influences your choices. I think in CA from the riding I've done mostly around Santa Cruz there's more winch and plummet. So a longer travel works in those situations because you've got a nice long downhill at higher speeds. When we talk about more techy western riding (AZ, CO, NM, UT) a lot of riding isn't winch and plummet. It is winch, traverse, plummet, hop up and over, drop drop drop.
  • 1 0
 @foggnm: For you, not for me. I ride in AZ and UT as well (mostly St George/Hurricane and Sedona), and I still want my long travel bike. Again, I don't want to have to ride around features because I compromised on my suspension travel. Not everyone likes to ride in the same conditions as you.
  • 1 1
 @JSTootell: So now your story is not riding in southern CA, but that you live in the southwest...did you forget where you live? I've lived in the southwest for 22 years....so champ, I'd say I know about the desert riding conditions very well. And those of us that live here don't "go ride around features" because we're not on our downhill bikes.
  • 1 0
 @foggnm: Just forget it and enjoy your riding. Not worth arguing about.
  • 1 0
 What's baffling about the propularity of this comment is that despite Levy's deviant pronunciation, Deviate has made its name on the proposition that a high-pivot layout is most important. The comparatively steep hta is a secondary deviation
  • 45 3
 If I had to pick from the lot, this would me my top. Also the best looking of the bunch!
  • 13 1
 Totally agree - the moment the Claymore was released I began formulating a pitch to the Mrs. re: a new bike (again).
  • 6 0
 @KJP1230: why isn’t some doing seminars on how to make an effective new bike pitch to the collective Mrs’s (and Mr.’s) of the world? I would sign up. Bike companies would be happy to sponsor.
  • 14 2
 @Chafingdish: unpopular opinion: your SO should be supportive and understanding of your hobbies, but obviously to a point: blatantly reckless spending is maybe not okay (i.e. 7k+ of credit card debt you can't pay off quickly for a new bike). But if you are reasonable, it is totally fine and your SO getting mad is a red flag
  • 2 0
 @IsaacWislon82: While I'm kinda with you on this topic, I get why significant others don't get the amount of money an enthusiast spend on his hobby of choice while, maybe, questioning expensive forniture for the house or that extra dinner out in that restaurant you both like so much but it's bloody expensive
  • 5 0
 @IsaacWislon82: Would you be understanding of your SO dropping 8K on a hobby that gets replaced every few years? It's a 2 way street. A mutual understanding of expectations and finances will go a long way.
  • 3 0
 @IsaacWislon82: showing that it's reasonable is usually kinda the point of the "pitch". To someone who's not super into riding (or even someone who rides a bit but is oblivious about gear/maintenance) the idea of a multi-thousand dollar bike usually seems insane and it's not obvious why any one bike is better than another. Questions like how long you plan to keep the bike, how much does it cost, how often you'll use it, what's wrong with your old one, etc are all questions you should be able to answer easily/honestly if you're sharing finances IMO. Especially if it falls outside of your normal budget & spending habits.
  • 6 0
 So for me its worse- my wife sacrificed a career she enjoyed to give our kids a better life by being a stay at home mom. She is 100% reliant on me for our income.

In 2019 I got the crazy idea into my head to start a bike company, and I have a few prototypes and sample frames that ride amazing. They are everything I want in a bike, but my first production batch is delayed yet again! COVID and the reactions to COVID has pushed back my delivery date by over a year. Meanwhile I've sunk tens of thousands of dollars into this, and my wife has put up with it. Maybe she shouldn't. Maybe I'm just lucky.
  • 2 0
 I divorced my ex wife mostly for poor spending habits, so, pick your battles.
  • 1 0
 @schlockinz: I agree completely
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: As with many things, in relationships you make your own luck.
  • 44 1
 Face toward enemy.
  • 24 0
 Opportunity for a pretty fun head tube badge!
  • 8 0
 *front
  • 4 1
 Unfortunately not that kind of Claymore, it's named after the Claymore that that Claymore was named after. I'd still have it as a TT sticker with an arrow though!
  • 5 0
 Race* toward enemy
  • 3 0
 @L0rdTom: probably still a good idea to point the sword version in the right direction....
  • 1 0
 @emarquar: This would go well with GG's "I like Goin' Fast" sticker.
  • 1 0
 @emarquar: yeah that's fair.

Although I vaguely remember reading that in the era of plate mail it wasn't uncommon to turn the sword around to use it as a hammer to bludgeon an armoured opponent.
  • 38 3
 Awesome review, but honestly, what is the point of harping on the brakes and saddle in a bike review if the bike only comes as frame only?
  • 9 2
 I actually really like to hear them talk about components outside of component-specific reviews. Sure, it's not necessarily relevant to this specific bike, but I find that hearing them talk candidly about which components they would choose is often more illuminating than a targeted review.
  • 30 6
 A couple of years ago (not too long), I saw a good vid of Minnaar's mech show how he bleeds brakes. He uses a "three angle" process. It's where you don't just put the lever in a level position and bleed. You also angle the levers down and bleed, then angle up and bleed. If you use this process you won't have any issues with your brakes. I NEVER have bite problems with my XTs. I use the same process on all brakes I work on.
  • 1 0
 Huh, that's interesting! I added in extending the pistons (with a 4mm allen in the middle) and pumping until basically hard (ha), with syringes still connected, to the process and it's worked really well too.
  • 6 0
 Do you have a link to that video?
  • 1 0
 That used to be part of the process for Shimano brakes, specifically road hydro levers, but when implemented across the board it seems to help get air out.
  • 17 8
 This type of Shimano wandering bite point problems can’t be remedied by bleeding, no matter which technique is used. That has been researched and proven hundreds of times over the many years that these issues have persisted.
  • 5 0
 @Adwardok: Sorry mate, I can't find it. It's pretty straight forward. It's just a simple bleed cup lever bleed. Keep the lever flat and get as many bubbles out as you can, then angle it up about 20-30 degrees and get as many bubbles out, then angle down 20-30 degrees and get the bubbles out. Then I like to bring it back to flat one more time and check for bubbles. Should be solid after that.
  • 5 0
 @Adwardok: it's Jason Marsh who showed Minaar how to bleed the brakes. Here's the link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWBVDh1pTE
  • 6 0
 For what it’s worth, Shimano’s XT brake manual tells you to angle the lever up and down when bleeding. So it’s not really a special trick, it’s following the proper procedure (unless Shimano updated the manual from Marsh’s feedback, which I find entirely possible)
  • 2 0
 @bocomtb: Yeah I though it was pretty standard procedure.
  • 4 0
 Add to that the free stroke screw. When you think you have finished, move it all the way out and all the way in pumping as well, and you'll see a couple tiny bubbles more
  • 1 0
 @iiman: That was what Marshy said too. That's a cool trick!
  • 3 0
 @bocomtb: Yup, just need to think like an air bubble in liquid. Bubbles can hang up around the hose connections and edge of seals so I jiggle/tap the line, tap caliper and MC, flick the lever blade near the end of the bleed and always get more bubbles out.
  • 4 8
flag TheRamma (Aug 30, 2022 at 19:02) (Below Threshold)
 @Ttimer: good luck talking sense to Shimano fanbois!
  • 6 2
 @TheRamma: I've solved this very well by replacing the xt calipers for mt7 ones. Bite point is the same every single time and the xt lever feels way nicer than the mt7 one. Shigura
For the win
  • 7 1
 @Ttimer: Some wandering bite points can be fixed by proper bleeding, some can't. The one thing we've learned about Shimano brakes is we can't say they're ALL the same.
  • 1 1
 @filryan: I have a Shimano/ Hope brake and it works like a champ. Best brake action I have experience to date.
For those "Hope it´s DOT it would never work",yes. That´s why Hope made an e4 caliper with shimano seals for gravel bikes...
I have this setup in my dirtjump bike,with the shimano cheapest lever (200 series long lever) they made and it is lovely. I´m about to try the same in my enduro bike,with a Saint lever and hose.
  • 2 0
 @homerjm: now that is interesting. Never had hopes but maybe in the future
  • 2 0
 @filryan: I saw the Hope caliper and the light switch on. I read some guys use them in tandem forums,fat fellas with some gear in the alps call them good so I try it.
It works really good in the dirtjump bike,lovely felling in the lever and 1 finger braking with a 160 mm tiny rotor,no front brake in the bike.
The RX4 post mount caliper is almost the same as e4,2 pistons are smaller but same pads. I hate DOT fluid and unpredictable brakes,so this combo ticks many boxes.
  • 1 0
 @homerjm: So l can use Shimano levers with certain hope calipers?
  • 2 0
 @Thirty3: with Hope RX4+ mineral oil calipers yes.
  • 21 0
 Also lets talk about that seat post length/insertion! This thing has a 430mm seat post length with a Max insertion of 325mm! That means you could just about slam a Oneup 240mm post in a size large, with maybe 10mm above the collar! So good to see. Just gives taller riders amazing options to have that seat all the way down and out of the way. I with every company could do this.
  • 2 0
 A serious question on slamming a dropper post all the way down: Will the rear tire buzz the saddle on hard landings if so? Does that matter or no?
  • 7 0
 @slow-burn: Modern bikes with steep seattube angles shouldn't have a problem with this, especially not a high pivot. I think Seth's bikes hack's had an issue with this with an AXS reverb on a Revel Rail, but that's a bike with a not so steep seat tube angle (76) and a not so long chain stay (436mm) on a small 29er, so I would say that's pretty rare. Most manufacturers design their frames with the intent being that you can have the seat slammed all the way down and not have any interference issues, but that's obviously frame dependent and more likely problematic on small frames. That being said, If your tire does buzz your seat at full compression, that's definitely a problem and you should either slide your seat forward or up and make sure its not interfering, bc having your rear tire potentially lock up when landing a big drop would be bad news.
  • 1 0
 I have tested this in the Highlander as well. Full 240mm one-up also fits into the large with no issues. Only complaint is my 240mm post wont transfer into my new Claymore frame because the Claymore is 34.9mm in size (will be better overall just wanted to be cheap and carry mine over)
  • 7 0
 Loooove bikes with low standover and short, straight seat tubes. Companies that don't allow 210mm droppers to fit and/or have anything but a low slung top tube are engineering fails in my book.
  • 9 0
 @Beerman13: buy a $6 shim and your dropper will fit… plus it’s lighter now.
  • 1 0
 Yep, my size 2 GG can fit a 213mm BikeYoke with about another 25mm of insertion possible. Just wish it was a 34.9mm seat tube, can't help but wonder what forces it's seeing during a wheelie at that extension length.... This Claymore is rad.
  • 1 0
 @Beerman13: I can confirm the seatpost shim works great. I have used one for a couple years now with zero problems. I buy 31.6 droppers so they will work in any frame these days with a shim if needed.
  • 1 0
 @misteraustin: careful you can loose your balls that way
  • 25 4
 C'mon Pinkbike. Stop deviating from the Contra release!
  • 15 1
 Eventually we'll need a field test exclusively of high-pivots. Would love to see the differences between the Claymore up against Spartan and Jekyll in particular.
  • 7 0
 Yeah, how many are we at now? Claymore, Dreadnought, Range, Spartan, GT Force, Jekyll, Contra and Hope has a new HP bike.
  • 5 4
 Forbidden Druid/Dreadnought..also why aren't they here?
  • 9 0
 @gunners1: Guessing they would like to avoid bikes they've previously reviewed, or just review bikes recently released.
  • 10 0
 would be stoked to hear how this stacks up with a dreadnought
  • 4 0
 Could be nice to do a round up/round table discussion of all the high pivotbikes they've tested this past year or so.
  • 1 0
 @skymurph: This is the test I wanna see!
  • 8 1
 Really? Why? High pivot is not a use case, just a means to an end.

I'd rather they compare bikes with similar purpose, but which use different means to achieve the same goal. Just like this test.
  • 3 1
 @Ttimer: True, but High-pivots are such new and different suspension design I'd like to see the different ideas and designs compared against each other. For example, I'm not expecting the Norco Range to be comparable to the Forbidden Druid, their purposes are very different but I'd still like to see a direct comparison between the Range and the Dreadnaught.
  • 3 1
 Good idea. They could even give it a cheesy "hype pivot" title.
  • 1 0
 @jbrown-15: The P-Train German steel bike from a previous test here.
  • 3 0
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: here a little comparative Deviate Highlander Vs Forbidden Druid from MBR. I quite like the way the beard guy reviews bikes.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcjX51NDjHU
  • 2 0
 @homerjm: Thanks I've been hunting for this. These bikes absolutely have my attention now. Would love to see a face off of the Claymore and Dreadnaught
  • 15 0
 Awesome photos of Kazimer! Some of the best yet.
  • 7 0
 That root drop picture is amazing. Looks like a 8 foot drop to gnar. But leaving the landing out makes it seem even more impressive, as the root system he is jumping from looks like it could continue on a ways.

@mikekazimer If that picture was of me I would have a life-sized poster of it as the wallpaper in my living room. is it as gnarly of a drop and landing as the picture suggests?
  • 10 0
 @NERyder, you can see it in the review video at 4:22. It's not that gnarly - the takeoff is slightly downhill, and there's a good landing. If anything, it's easier to accidentally go too deep rather than not far enough.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: still a badass line the was your tires bobbled over it if I'm thinking of the same shot!
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: I know that one on Double Down. It's pretty fun.
  • 8 0
 I absolutely love my Deviate Highlander 150. Climbs a heck of a lot better and more comfortably than when I had a Revel Rascal for a bit, and out-climbs anything else in the 150 category I’ve ridden. This Claymore review reminds me very much of my Highlander, with the Highlander being a better all-mountain bike. I’ve been incredibly impressed with Deviate’s product. You’re right, the steering on them is a touch faster but that’s not a bad thing. And they are very playful, even with coil. My only complaint is that if you have a cable actuated Eagle derailleur, the angle at which the housing leaves the frame and enters the der is NOT great and causes quite a bit of friction with all of the twists and turns required. Not a problem with Shimano cable actuated or obviously any wireless or Di2 system. I ended up having to move to AXS because I just could not get the shifting happy (I am a mechanic). Looks like the Claymore would have the same issue. Deviate support has been excellent, though their recommendation of simply making the shift housing longer was not a solution. That only made bend angles worse. Anyways, they make great bikes! Highly recommend.
  • 6 0
 @thisc*nt: the actual angle and the effective angle on our frames is identical because the seattube is inline with the BB. As the seating position is raised, the seating position will obviously extend further back, but not anywhere near to the same extent as a frame with a slack actual angle whereby even though it has a steep effective angle, as the seating position is raised the seating position is extended drastically rearwards.
  • 6 1
 Deviate pro + Not just a singleminded DH machine – it's still fun on moderate terrain
Fezzari con - More generalist than specialist - it's not quite as solid as other options on high speed, rough trails
I understand it can go either way. Just trying to fuel some fires.
  • 24 1
 The difference is that the Fezzari didn't feel as solid at higher speeds compared to some of the other bikes, while the Deviate did really well at going fast, and also remained very manageable on moderate terrain. In other words, the Deviate had fewer limitations than the Fezzari.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: good clarification. I enjoy your commentary and usually align with your opinions.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Yah well the Claymore rear CS extends another 22mm on compression, it's going to work better with that CS length on a 490mm reach bike.
  • 5 0
 @mikekazimer: Did you or Alicia experience the bike‘s rear suspension stiffening under braking? This is often considered a major disadvantage of single high pivot point bikes when compared to virtual or horst link based high pivot bikes.
The Loam Wolf finally formulates almost a warning at the end of his video.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5O9r-9ZU7E
  • 2 0
 @Larsgeorge: I'm curious about this too, I ride plain single pivot bikes (Orange & Starling) and they do stiffen under braking more than a four-bar, but it's not a MAJOR disadvantage and can even be worked into your riding style for more fun.
  • 2 1
 @mikekazimer: You put a con as not having different chainstay lengths for each size.. 440 is perfect for the large its my go to with a 490 reach at 6ft 2. What sizes would you of picked for the m and xl? 5mm each way? They should have made it a mullet
  • 7 2
 Actual Question, @mikekazimer on a few of these reviews you talk about how the bikes with shorter chain stays are fun because it makes the bike playful and so you can slide around the rear tire easily, (I think you talked about this in regard to the Santa Cruz). However, My experience and understanding has been that longer chain stays puts more weight and therefore grip on the front tire, and therefore makes the rear end of the bike a bit lighter in cornering, and lets the rear end "dance around"/get slidey a bit more that short CS bikes.

Can you clarify a bit since what you were saying about the santa cruz being fun and slidey thanks to the shorter cs length is kind of the opposite of the effect I've experienced shorter chain stays to do? I went from a bike with 430mm Chainstays to the Meta SX with 448mm chainstays, and I have found the result is a super predictable cornering and edge of grip, which results in a really playful bike in corners that can be thrown around and is very forgiving and playful. However, you're describing short chainstay bikes in much the same way "thanks to the shorter chainstays" am I misunderstanding your description in some way? SHorter cs bikes will "rotate quicker around their vertical axis" but will likely push the front tire out before the back tire. (think short cs=understeer, long cs=oversteer) Any clarification of your experience with cs length and cornering characteristics would be awesome, thanks!
  • 10 0
 In my experience, bikes with shorter chainstays are easier to manual and wheelie, and that can also translate to a bike that's snappier around corners and in tighter terrain. Bike with longer chainstays usually feel more stable, and can put the rider in a more central position, but in some cases can feel more sluggish at slower speeds.

There are a lot of factors that go into influencing how a bike behaves; solely focusing on chainstay length doesn't usually tell the whole story.
  • 4 2
 I’m not @mikekazimer, but I can add my opinion to this. I think the difference in playfulness when it comes to cornering of short vs long chainstay bikes is that, like you said, the longer chainstays apply more weight to the front wheel and make the bike more predicable and easier to controllably drift the rear end, especially in flatter corners. In berms, it’s super easy to weight the front and rear just right and can be a load of fun in long successive corners where you can really flick the rear end out behind you. Where the short chainstay is fun is when you have tight/short corners, in these you can push the rear end into them aggressively, with the slap/schralp style which is super fun. On longer berms, it can be done by going inside and just catching the last few feet of the berm. You’re able to do this because of the rear wheel being more underneath you, which mean you can put a lot of force through it, breaking traction through loading the rear wheel rather than the front like with the long chainstay. When sufficient support/traction is there, it allows you to create a slide that feels very quick and exciting. They have their own style, both of which are incredible fun but are terrain and rider dependant.
  • 5 0
 @norcorider-13: Sweet, yea that sounds right and definitely makes sense. Sometimes I hear people describing short cs bikes as though they are easy to slide the rear end around when in fact, longer chainstays give you a more predictable slide from the rear tire. What I've found on short chainstay bikes is too often, when pushing into the rear tire, it will just grip even harder rather than slide, and this will push the front tire out and cause me to hit the ground so fast. Where as, a long chain stay tends to be much more forgiving, and balanced, making the front tire claw in for grip, and lets me whip through corners so much harder with the rear tire on the edge of grip which to ME feels like a "snappy" feel because the bike absolutely rockets me out of corners.
But I see what you're saying with a short chain stay bike maybe coming to life on even tighter corners than I am describing. With a short chainstay, the rear grip is a little more "on/off" so when you do lose grip and catch again (shralp as the kids say) maybe it feels more extreme because when it does catch, it catches harder than a long cs bike. (in my case, it doesnt catch and I eat sh*t).
I think the thing that was getting to me was people describing bikes as "snappy" or "drifty" thanks to short chainstays, as if long cs bikes cornered badly. But I feel my long cs bike is much snappier and driftier than my old shorter cs bike, thanks to being able to push so much harder into corners and gripping so much more. But you're right, there's different riding styles and different trails that make the bikes feel different. thanks for the response dude!
  • 1 0
 @misteraustin: No problem! You definitely have the right idea, sometimes it’s just hard to parse out what’s actually being said, and if the terrain tested on differs greatly from yours, sometimes those comments don’t line up with your reality. I remember a while back I heard someone describe “playfulness” as instability which I think is a better way to think of it, although it sounds like a negative so reviewers won’t use it. Instability aligns with the bike being easier to move around because body position shifts have a greater affect, and the bike reacts quicker and more dramatically to these inputs and therefore you’re more on edge, which can be fun. Like Kazimer mentions, longer chainstays can feel sluggish until you reach a speed which allows you to be on the edge of instability.
  • 4 0
 My 2c is that long chainstays handle better because they grip better, due to better weight balance. However, they are simply longer wheelbase so they need to be muscled around corners more, which leads to a sluggish feeling feeling on tight corners. But, for my style, I find time and time again its easier to muscle a big bike around tight corners than rail corners on an unbalanced bike, so longer CS lengths for me are pretty much always better, because I have that inherent confidence that I can ride at the limit with predictable, balanced handling characteristics.

So I suppose the real TL;DR is that "feels fast" and "is fast" may correlate, but it is certainly not foolproof.
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer: We need to get to the bottom of this one. I'm a big fan of longer chainstays, but I find them really hard to drift and skid compared to shorter ones. I don't think I've done a scandi-flick since I owned a Process 111. Maybe you can get Seb Stott to write a sciencey piece on the subject?
  • 2 0
 @chakaping: Again, I think we might be using words like "drift" and "skid" to describe different things. Where a long chain stay bike comes to life is when you're carrying speed, leaned into a corner, the weight distribution is more likely to allow the rear tire to start (I don't want to say drifting) predictably sliding, or often for me its not even so much a slide, but I can just FEEL the rear tire is on the edge of its grip, pushing dirt up the berm, where the front tire still has lots of grip left, exactly how I want it. Push a little harder, and that rear end will flick out. but again, all at speed.
You mention "scandi flick" and "skid" I imagine these to be more so "rotations." A scandi flick has almost nothing to do with weight distribution, as you are basically unweighting the rear end all together to initiate an opposite slide, then letting it catch and whip you around to initiate the rotation through a corner. Shorter wheelbase bikes aka shorter cs will initiate rotations around the vertical axis quicker which I am imagining is causing the flicky feeling in maneuvers like this. Even with the weight distribution, a shorter chainstay bike will initiate "rotations around the vertical axis" easier because its just shorter. I am kind of spit balling here, but it makes sense in my mind. But is probably confusing because we use words like "Flicky" "Snappy" "drifty" to describe different characteristics.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: No, it doesn't tell the whole story, but it seems it is ONE of the factors that most drives a bikes personality in my experience.
  • 2 1
 @misteraustin: I just meant getting the rear to break traction in corners, I can do it a bit on my bike with 435mm rear but it just never happened on the 450mm and 445mm ones I've owned in recent years.
With respect, I'm not sure any of us fully grasp how physics and modern MTB geometry join up in real life.
  • 3 0
 @chakaping: For sure. We all also have a lot of confirmation bias towards the bikes that we own. its a whole system, usually can't take one small piece of it and analyze it with any accuracy.
  • 5 2
 @misteraustin: Good observation about how the bikes we are used to tend to skew our perceptions. This is probably the biggest fault of many high pivot bike reviews.

Most people are used to riding low pivot bikes with short chainstays, so anything different from that feels weird.. and slow. That is likely what we are seeing in this review, and it's happened in other Pinkbike reviews. The exception to that is high pivot bike reviews by Paul Aston, he was able to adapt to them and raved about how good the traction was. A bikes ability to hold traction is probably a more important factor than chainstay length when it comes to cornering.

Even though low pivot bikes are inherently unstable and sacrifice traction because of the different axle paths of the wheels, most riders are used to this, and mistakenly see it as an advantage in making the bike have more 'pop', or responsiveness. No, it's instability, and not one low pivot manufacturer promotes it as an advantage, because it's not. We're just at an stange point with bike technology where the familiarity with outdated technology is preventing us from embracing something better.
  • 2 0
 @chakaping: I've had similar experiance with my Highlander, my Scott Genius i had before was easy to skid the back end round and was good for making tight corners by flicking the rear into the catch berm but the Deviate is harder to do this, at first i thought it was the longer chainstays (especially when sat in the travel) making the tighter corners tricky, and it might contribite but i've since worked out even with a big helping of rear brake to try and skid the rear around, it just wants to grip, especially with my coil shock compared to the air before, it's funny as the grip the bike has is brilliant but in these tight situations where the corner is tighter than a long 29er (quite common in scotland) you maybe don't want that grip but it's all a balance that benefits you elsewhere.
  • 1 0
 @maglor: Yes I'm lucky to have been riding EXT shocks the last year or so and they just grip everywhere.
I suspect you're right, it's a combination of factors conspiring to stop me skidding.
  • 6 1
 Interesting that the spec'd the short cage derailleur with a 10-51 cassette.

Is this possible because of the idler pully taking up the extra chain slack?
Did it have any impact on shifting performance?
Any issues with setting up the b tension?
  • 3 1
 I want to know this too! My guess is they never shifted up to the 51 gear.
  • 5 0
 @mikekazimer

How does this compare to the size specific stays on the dreadnaught, in the dread review you say you are still interested in doing a longer term test. Would love to hear your thoughts specifically on how the dread compares to the deviate. And sounds like many would love to have a wholistic wrap up including contra, kavenz, Jekyll and others. We don't even need a long talking review. Time test them all head on!
  • 8 0
 I’m surprised everyone isn’t more excited to see external cable routing on a modern carbon bike. I personally LOVE it
  • 8 2
 But it still goes through the swing arm, which makes it kinda pointless, no?
  • 3 0
 The Groove Tube is back!
  • 1 1
 @Paco77: only the shift housing. Rear brake is routed 100% externally
  • 2 0
 @swillett116: No it's not - you can clearly see it going through the swingarm in the video.
  • 2 0
 @Paco77: oh, my bad, apologies. I haven't watched the whole video yet. They must have changed that from the other existing frames then!
  • 5 0
 Super excited for this review!

The suspension curve looks pretty progressive especially towards the end. Do you guys think it would work even better with a coil? Did you get the chance to test one on there?
  • 6 0
 I have one with a coil (Fox DHX), and it works great. No hard bottoming or blowing through the end of the travel.
And it climbs so well you don't even use the climb switch, full open all of the time.

I think the coil also helps with sensitivity under braking as well, I don't notice it getting stiffer when dragging the brakes through rough stuff much at all.

Like the review says, surprisingly poppy and playful for how big it is. Much more so than the medium Spire I had previously.
  • 1 3
 The suspension curve really isn't particularly progressive. Calculating from 30% to 95% travel I get about 15% which is on the low end. But keep in mind it has 165mm travel and has more millimeters to shed off energy, and therefore won't need as much progression as a shorter travel rig.
I'd recommend a high volume air shock personally for this bike, so you have room to adjust progression. I.e. Manitou Mara Pro.
  • 1 0
 Different bike, but my Highlander performed lightyears better with a coil shock over the stock X2. More midstroke support, better small bump and remained just as playful if not more when popping off of stuff. These bikes NEED coils imho. Not sure why they spec them with air shocks.
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: I highly doubt it will be 15% but I'm not sure how high pivot curves compare to standard. Even if it was on the lower end, can always run a progressive coil. I have one on my giga at 29% progression but I ride pretty hard.
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: I didn't down vote btw. But, I'm not sure how you came up with that number. Their page shows 2.8-2.85 at sag to 2.3 at full travel, which is 22-24%. Since it ramps up towards the end of travel rather than growing more linearly, I was concerned that it mimicked the ramp behavior of an airshock which could result in a wallowly midstroke and harsh ramp up.
  • 2 0
 I run an EXT arma on mine and it works really well. The comments about the small bump traction vs the contra was hilarious since the contra had arguably the best rear coil shock available.
  • 4 0
 My current ride is a Druid and I love how it handles the chunk. Been thinking of something a bit more travel, but I feel like the Dreadnought at 63.5 HA would be too slack in anything but park setting. This might be right up my alley. Definitely a high-pivot convert, they just work.
  • 1 0
 Druid owner here. Do you have the cascade link?
  • 2 0
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Nice! Just installed one but havent ridden it yet. I can say that i have a works headset that puts me right at 64* HTA with a 140mm fork and it doesn't feel slack at all. My SX is 62 point something and it feels slack LoL.

IMHO, i think the dreadnaught would be fine for most all mountain/enduro trails.
  • 4 0
 @ATXZJ: I ride on the east coast and tried a 64 HA bike before and didn't like it. I think right around 65 is my sweet spot, but I'm willing to try it again.
  • 4 0
 The Claymore is very high on my list beside my ordered Megatower V2 frame, wich is unfortunately delayed to a
unknown date here in germany.

In a other review from the loam woalf they mentioned, that the brake squat is very noticeable up to unpleasant.

Did you @alicialeggett notice any firming up in the rear during breaking because of the high anti rise?
You and @mikekazimer didn´t mention antything of that in your review of the field test. So maybe it depends more
on setup and shock, than it´s a common "issue"?
  • 1 0
 I’m also interested to hear if pinkbike experienced this
  • 1 0
 @jeremyk: I pursue the Claymore thread in the biggest german forum. The people there are saying, yes
it´s noticealbe a little bit. But by far not that bad like in the review from loam wolf. But almost everyone there
is riding a coil setup, maybe that´s a reason.

I canceled my Megatower last week and the Claymore should arrive at the end of october Smile
  • 1 0
 @FabianDeml: thanks that’s worth knowing. Interesting to hear you’ve cancelled your mega tower order! That’s also on my list! Am looking seriously at a dreadnought
  • 1 0
 @jeremyk: I canceled it because my deliverydate was postponed from end of september, to end of december,
to end of january. And now, there isn´t an estimated deliverydate for germany at all... Maybe march, or maybe not...

Dreadnought is also a nice high pivot bike, which is worth to consider in my opinion.
  • 4 1
 rode a highlander for a year and am glad to see the seat tube angle increased on this one. 75 degree isn't absurdly slack but i always wished it was steeper. 78 sounds perfect. sounds like they've worked out the seals on the idler, as mine had so much drag that the idler wouldn't spin freely on its own (i ended up running without the seals and replacing the bearings more often)
  • 4 0
 I got a highlander earlier this year and they definitely have sorted the idler drag, mine runs smooth and free.
  • 2 0
 @maglor: glad to hear that. my seals were so damn tight. i tried sanding them down a bit but ultimately pulled them out. i ride in dry conditions, so it wasn't a big deal. for the record, deviate's support was amazing. i hope they can continue to give the same attention to their customers as they inevitably grow
  • 1 0
 I think Deviate list the actual seat angle for their bikes, compared to the virtual one which most other brands use in their geo tables.
  • 1 0
 @Zayphod: they do, but because the seat tube is a straight shot to the BB, not offset at all, the figures are actually identical
  • 3 0
 Oh!! I forgot to say that Deviate freakin' nailed it with how long of a dropper you can run on their bikes. If I get all my calculations right, on *some* other frames I can get away with a 170-ish post at 5'7'' and ALL leg. Some I can barely get a 150mm post in there. I bought a 210mm dropper for my Deviate and have it set at 190mm. Insane. I wish more manufacturers would pay attention to this.
  • 5 0
 I'm biased as I've been selling Deviate for the last year and a half but the Claymore is the best bike I've ever thrown a leg over.
  • 3 0
 I was expecting the bike to ride like a brawler, to my surprise it was a very capable trail bike as well, especially with a lighter Mezzer up front and trail tires. But tossing the 38 on transformed the bike further towards highly capable enduro rig, the added weight gave it a bit more of a stability achor up front for when hauling. All in all, a bike that can capability handle a large range of riding options and places.
  • 3 0
 I´ve been riding the highlander ( the 150mm version ) bike for about 4 months. The idler hasn't been an issue. Performs great on the descents and the overall quality of the carbon and paint is great. Nice to have something different on the trails as we're always seeing the same bikes!
  • 7 0
 Confused as to Alica's true feelings regarding the bike!
  • 3 1
 Sounds like she's putting a ring on it.
  • 5 0
 Why not just run the rear brake in a channel on the rear swing arm? It seems silly to have it mostly externally routed.
  • 5 3
 It amazes me that manufacturers (and reviewers too, quite frankly), don't talk more about bikes having proportional, or at least size-specific chainstays.

As a taller rider, it seems to me this should be one of the most important aspects to how a bike rides (but, that's just based of my assumption and not off actually riding different bikes, which is why I'd love to see more reviewers that are taller - looking at you @seb-stott - test and/or speak to proportional chainstays.)

I'm 6'4", and was initially very tempted by the Claymore's XL size 520mm reach (15mm LONGER than my Privateer 141, which I would want!), but on reading down the geo chart, this bike would only have 441mm chainstays (a full 11mm SHORTER than my Privateer). I'm no geometry wizard, but my basic knowledge makes me think this would be a much worse ride for taller riders. Thoughts?
  • 12 0
 Keep in mind that the chainstay length (the distance from the center of the BB to the rear axle) on high pivot bikes increases as they go through the travel. At 30% sag the Claymore's chainstay length would be very similar, or a little longer, than that of your Privateer.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/22736880
  • 7 0
 Sagging in on a high pivot will lengthen the chainstays a decent amount. I'm not saying size specific chainstays aren't valuable but the static numbers may not tell the whole story.
Also, with the seat tube angle being the actual (not effective) no matter how high the seat goes the angle doesn't get worse. Which is really nice for taller guys who rock crazy seatpost lengths.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: That is true, thanks for pointing that out. But I guess when I compare this to the other small company that specializes in high-pivot bikes (cough cough Forbidden cough) who actually went for even LONGER chainstays, seeing the numbers on this Deviate does make me scratch my head and think "...why they'd do that?"

Not saying this as a complaint, just something I've been thinking about a lot as someone who just wants a bike to ride as well for me as for other more normal sized humans haha.
  • 1 0
 the chainstays will grow more I think 22mm I heard so they will probably feel longer than 441
  • 1 5
flag st-alfie (Aug 30, 2022 at 11:32) (Below Threshold)
 @AverageAdventurer: the higher the seat goes the worse the effective seat angle gets though. It will still stay comparably steep but to suggest a tall rider won't sit further behind the bb is incorrect.
  • 4 3
 Im no 6'4 monster but am 6ft, If i ride anything over 440 CS the back end just feels dead . I ride for fun, dunno about everyone else... i want to ride the bike and not just be a passenger
  • 5 1
 @thisc*nt: The angle physically can't change, it is inline with the bb. The position rearward will change but relative to a bike like a slash where the effective angle is so different it makes a huge difference. No part suggesting they won't sit further back but this is a clever design.
  • 1 7
flag st-alfie (Aug 30, 2022 at 12:47) (Below Threshold)
 @AverageAdventurer: no shit the actual angle can't change but it is the effective angle at a given height that is relevant. You said no matter how high the seat goes the angle doesn't get worse (worse is relative but you clearly mean slacker). The effective angle most definitely does get slacker as the seat goes higher.

The bb is not inline with the seat tube, it is slightly set back, but this I don't see how you think this means the angle changes any less as the seat height changes.
  • 5 0
 @thisc*nt:
images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5d6e8c544f79e80001356407/1582750626351-EATFQTZX1P0I2ZRT8TFC/highlander-geo

It is in line, i don't see how the effective angle can change if it is in fact the actual angle. Yes you will consistently move rearwards at the given angle.
Here's a fun article by Dan Roberts with pictures and everything.
www.pinkbike.com/news/enginerding-seat-tube-angles.html
  • 3 0
 For both extreme ends of the size range, I firmly believe that bikes need size specific rear ends too. And not just the odd mm here or there, but keeping the front / rear ratio consistent.

That said, I'm 1.93m tall and own a Highlander 150 I can tell you it's a stunning bike to ride. Definitely best with a coil I have found and am very happy with it.
  • 1 3
 @AverageAdventurer: if the bb is inline with the centerline of the seat tube you are correct. I am yet to see an image of the actual bike that suggests that the bb isn't slightly set back.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: how does it compare to last years top ten bike Kavenz VHP16? Different chainstat lengths off course but handling?
  • 1 0
 @The-Reverend: Interesting, and am thinking the same, that I'd really like to see size-specific chainstays become much more common. Think this deserves an op-ed article on this website soon too.

The Highlander actually seems to have shorter reach than most XL Bikes at 491mm (assuming you're on an XL size), and you don't feel cramped with that? Funny I'm about the same height as you at 6'4" and sometimes wanting even more reach on my Privateer with 510mm.
  • 2 0
 @winstonstruye: the Highlander is indeed XL.
My bikes are at 490mm - 510mm in reach and they all seem to work. Stems are different to compensate.

It doesn't feel cramped, or too small. In fact it's really easy to ride.
My longest bike I definitely have to get used to riding if I've not ridden it recently.
That's 464mm at the rear and has benefits and drawbacks with the geometry. Still awesome to ride though.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer Mike please, in those rare cases when only frame is available, could you please add something like a full build price based on aftermarket bits? For next field test it would be easier to make an image
  • 4 0
 Still loving my Highlander 150 (after almost 2 years). When time comes for retirement this one will be high up on my list...
  • 2 0
 Fantastic bike!!!
  • 5 0
 I have one with an Ohlins coil. AMAZING bike!
  • 3 0
 I wonder how big of a difference there is between this and a non-idler bike like the new Orbea Rallon? That Rallon won the Enduro bike of the year at EnduroMag.
  • 2 0
 Curious as well as I own a Rallon. I bought it as it was the least "enduro-ish" of the enduro bikes, ie, just a big trail bike. So far it's great and weighs ~4# less.
  • 1 0
 I wonder the same thing. I'm am looking to upgrade my current Rallon w/ new version. I've had the Claymore in the cart ready to order but haven't pulled the trigger. Orbea won't sell me a frame only so I'd have to spend $6600 to get a Myo frame w' an M10 but don't need any extra parts.
  • 3 2
 @jzdyrko: The odd thing is that this Claymore seems like its trying to be more like the Rallon rather than full on lean into High Pivot SuperEnduro. The Rallon also doesn't have longer chainstays per the size tho or adjustable ones Rockies (436 to like 445 I think). I'm guessing that that Rallon won't handle the rough as well as this but it'll berm better and certainly climb better. I saw a guy reference the Rallon as a longer travel Ripmo kind of bike for what that's worth.
  • 3 0
 @Svinyard: Probably gonna place my Claymore Order tomorrow. Frame is way less than the Rallon frame if I could find one. Claymore frame is a pound heavier so weight isn't that big of a deal. Figure why not give it a try,
  • 1 0
 @Svinyard: I’d agree with the Ripmo comparison but actually think the Rallon climbs techy stuff better. The Rallon was a pain to get and is stupid expensive, especially the frame-only option. Glad I ordered before the prices went up.
  • 1 0
 @Svinyard: Yeah, it's an interesting comp. Enduro bikes that draw praise for being well rounded and good pedalers. I think in the end, it just comes down to personal preference for ride feel. I really like how my Forbidden Druid rides, so I would probably stick with the high-pivot concept, but Rallon is probably a super sweet ride too!
  • 1 0
 @jzdyrko: What are the frame weights ? (and where did you find this information)
  • 1 0
 @jzdyrko: I actually found the claymore weight on their website (I'm jaded, most mfg do not publish it).
6.1 lbs without shock (no mention of size). Air shock will add about a lb to that. That's pretty dang light for a big bike. I'm a little suspicious that the Rallon could be a full lb lighter than that.
  • 1 0
 @preston67:I saw the Claymore frame weight on Deviates site as well. I got the new Rallon's weight In Bikeradar's review of 2022 Rallon, Frame weight was 2.3kg which is 5.07lbs..
  • 2 0
 @jzdyrko: The Rallon saves weight by having one of the pivots double as the rear axle. So an extra pound for the extra rear suspension complication ain't bad with the Claymore.

My 2022 med Rallon weighs 30.3# without pedals. Lyrik fork though, not 38. And generally fancy parts from the old bike.
  • 2 0
 @IamZOSO: Dude...that is sick. A lightweight in a heavy weight travel category that climbs well, has storage, solid geometry. Only thing I wish it had was adjustable chainstays or size specific chainstays. An XL bike with that wheelbase, likely should have longer stays than 438mm for a bike in this category with that cost. I chatted with a guy who is 6-4 on an XL Rocky Altitude (adjustable chainstays from 437 to 448. He said he'd tried both settings a bunch (colorado I think) and that he just kept coming back to the 448 chainstays as it was just better balanced all around. Who knows but size specific stays should be a thing by now for Orbea at that price.
  • 1 0
 @IamZOSO: My 2018 Rallon is 31.8lbs w/ pedals, Trust Shout and a Float X. It was 34 w/ my DHX2. Trying to find a replacement for it.....always felt a bit short but ST on the XL was to tall for me. otherwise the Rallon was almost my perfect bike. R5 frame is .5lbs heavier than R6
  • 1 0
 @Svinyard: No argument there. I was fine with it as the CS on the medium is perfect. XL is a different matter though fo sho, esp at the cost.
  • 1 0
 @Svinyard: doesn't the rear get longer as it goes into the suspension though?
  • 1 0
 @chakaping: I think that's moreso on the high pivot designs but maybe it does. I think the Ripmo does a bit
  • 1 0
 @Svinyard: sorry I thought you meant the deviate, ignore me
  • 2 0
 @jzdyrko: I'm in the exact same position. Love my R5 Rallon but want a bit more after riding it 5000+ miles. Tried an R6 in a parking lot and it felt like exactly that. The pricing is insane though, was hoping to find one on sale but have a Claymore in my cart too, just haven't pulled the trigger yet. Did you end up moving forward with ordering?
  • 1 0
 @PaulC290: When I tried to pay the price jumped to $3600 w/o a shock, $4200 with so I emailed them to honor the price that was in my cart...if they don't then I'm picking up the Rallon complete...unfortunately will have to deal with selling off the parts as I already have the parts to build a Rallon LTD. will be a better value, lighter , and just as capable. @deviatecycles
  • 2 0
 @PaulC290: Deviate is awesome, took care of me and Claymore is on order...
  • 1 0
 @Svinyard: the rear center in XL is 441mm but at sag the rear center grows by another 10mm+ which is totally fine for XL+ riders.
  • 4 0
 Great photos here. The sheer size of some of the tree trunks are unbelievable. What a beautiful place to ride.
  • 3 0
 Chuckanut State Park is a very special place.
  • 5 0
 Would really like to hear how it compares to the Norco Range
  • 3 0
 I had the Range on order for more than a year when they extended my delivery date to December! Norco dropped the ball on supply and customer service so I cancelled. I had the Claymore in 3 weeks, it's lighter and Badass!
  • 3 0
 From what I've read and watched review wise, Range probably a better descender, Claymore better climber and lighter by 3-4lbs
  • 1 0
 www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/deviate-cycles-claymore-large-rowan-red-float-x2-rear-shock?variant=39799060004986&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwr-1pKbv-QIVJ8qUCR2HPAVAEAQYBSABEgL4JfD_BwE

What is the price of this bike?

In the details it’s 3822, yet the write up has 3696, worldwide has them for 4200, and if I go to deviates website, it’s under 3600, with free international shipping. All with the X2… weird
  • 3 0
 The price on Deviates website differs daily by the exchange rate to USD. It was over $3k 2 weeks ago, $2987 6 hrs ago, and $2972 right now.
  • 7 0
 @jzdyrko @Emr52 - our DTC prices are based in GBP so the USD (or any other currency) will fluctuate. Canadian and US customers will have tax calculated at the checkout and UK/EU customers will see VAT included in the prices.
Either way the price of the Claymore frame with no shock is currently £2500 GBP + tax.
The reality is that the USD/GBP exchange rate is highly volatile at the moment so we'll be shortly locking in our USD (and CAD) pricing to prevent this fluctuation and also protect our dealers in the US and Canada from exchange rate fluctuations.
  • 2 0
 @deviatecycles: thanks for the clarity. Seems like you guys have a sick frame on your hands
  • 1 0
 @deviatecycles: Wait until next week to lock in those prices LOL....Waiting for a payment to post ( hopefully by tomorrow).I'm about to order and would hate for that to affect my purchase :Wink
  • 4 0
 How the Deviate Claymore rides compared to Specialized Enduro and Transition Spire ( climbing and descending )?
  • 1 0
 I had my Claymore for a few weeks now. Bike is fast....just a few rides in and on 2 runs on my local trail I got KOM's. KOM was 3:28 My previous 20 fastest times were within 8 seconds of each other...3:41 to 3:49 on a few different bikes...Rallon, Spur, Calling, Rise, Rail, Wreckoning V3 First ride I got a 3:23, then 4 days later I got a 3:11. This bike is FAST!!! The fastest time average 4 mph faster than the avg of the previous bikes. Bike is definitely more skilled than I am LOL
  • 3 0
 That's a very positive review. I'd be interested in trying on of those for sure.
  • 2 2
 Looks really good! I'd love to try one just to see how it rides. Although I don't fully understand why you'd make a long, slack, long-travel 29er with high-pivot suspension and then also not tune it to be an absoltute speed demon.
  • 3 0
 Anyone notice right a few days after this went live, the prices went up significantly?
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer @alicialegget did you notice any roughness from the high anti-rise? I went down a bit of an anti-rise rabbit hole after reading another review but seems PB hardly comments on it - not sure why??
  • 3 1
 If for some reason your idler breaks or you only have a short chain can you satisfactorily run it without the idler?
  • 1 1
 It looks amazing and would love to try one. It’s bound to be cheaper than a SC as they dont have a huge marketing or warranty spend to factor in or shareholders to keep happy.
  • 4 0
 This bike looks amazing.
  • 2 0
 This appears to be a great bike, but...no size small leaves the short people like me no option.
  • 1 3
 592 mm ett, 410mm st and wb of 1233 seem pretty ok even for someone of a smaller stature. you can always use a 40mm stem and 760mm handlebars to cramp up the cockpit a little.
  • 3 0
 @eugenux: I currently ride a size small Honzo ESD with a 30mm stem. Your suggestions still make the bike too long for me.
  • 1 1
 @Offrhodes: undestood. unfortunately, no small company can afford to produce sizes for riders that find themselves at the extreme ends of sizing charts. Only big brands can afford to produce all sizing options... from xs to xxxl.
  • 2 0
 Is @Cannondale going to pull a Specialized maneuver and sue over the use of the Claymore name?
  • 3 0
 What a great review! Well done Deviate!
  • 5 3
 This thing will hit the market like a bomb
  • 2 0
 That was a surprising review. Some would even say explosive.
  • 1 0
 Claymore is a beast! If you want to build a bike around that frame feel free to contact us - Unreal Bikes
  • 2 4
 looks like a... GIGA - Pedals like a giga. Anyone who hasnt ridden one.. go try one... for a 180mm monster it pedals like a 140 bike. i bought all 3 NP Full models(except dh), Giga, mega and reactor recently and just finished building the mega(bought the giga as a full bike) The giga is weird, its got 180mm's of travel but when pedaling and pumping down trails it doesnt feel like it, untill you hit something big and you say "wow, Usually i get a wack from that section" it just absorbs it but then itll be happy enough to pump the next roller without being wallowy

Deviate is Considerably more expensive here so Glad i could experience it without spending the $$$ lol.
  • 3 1
 previous (medium-)high pivot bike with a rearward axle path. The feel of a bike with a rearward axle path is very different. It is like the ground is packet but somehow full of loam at the same time. I loved the feeling.

The Giga's strong point is its geometry... it is fast and capable af due to it, not to the suspension systems which is nothing out of the ordinary(I run my Giga in the most progressive set-up with 30% sag and some lsc added and some open rebound.. which, surprised me as I would have expected the vice-versa.. more open compressions and less rebound). Not to be misunderstood.. I love my Giga, it is the fastest bike I ever rode on a piece of dh trail but, the bike makes this happen more from geometry, then through its suspension system. Rearward axle path with high pivots bikes can have smaller wb and lesser geometries and still feel like everything under the wheels is in absolute submission.
At the moment when I ordered my Giga frame.. I could not get hold of a Jekyll and no other bikes beside these two interested me. I don't regret it, quite the contrary.. it is an effin beast of a bike and fast af but, the feel is very different and the compliance is not quite there. What I realized was that, even though I thought that what I need compliance and composure... in reality, it seems that there are more ways to achieve the same result. Giga is not a comfy bike to ride... it is pretty stiff and lacks the ultimate smoothness of a rearward axle path bike but, that does not stop it to be one of the fastest bikes you can buy today.
I wouldn't called it a good pedaler.., especially when you dd-it with assegais and maxxgrip compound.
  • 1 1
 *I thought I needed comfyness and composure to go fast..., that's what I was trying to say(sorry, a long day and a late hour combined did not do me any favours)
  • 2 0
 How does this thing ride compared to the Kavenz?
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer would you take this bike to Stoneking Rally over a Megatower? (you get to choose pedals and shorts...)
  • 1 0
 Any idea what size they rode? Watched the video and cruised the review page.. nothing.
  • 2 0
 They usually review larges.
  • 1 0
 Says the size in the details right at the top of the page. Large (tested)
  • 1 0
 Can't take this reveiw seriously without a coke in the bottle holder and salt and vinegar chip grease all over the grips.
  • 2 1
 Really cool to see @alicialeggett genuinely grinning with excitement about this bike
  • 2 1
 Saving the best for last I guess
  • 1 0
 I think that front brake hose could be a little longer
  • 4 6
 I saw a few instances of high pivot idler frame riders losing chains at burke and sugarloaf EWS. It seems like once your clutch gets a lil wonky it's bye bye chain with these designs. 1/4 wrap on the chainring seems risky.
  • 4 0
 The Idler mount on the Deviate acts as a chain guide so it can't come off the idler and i find becuase the idler is quite close to the chainring it keeps it all aligned and in place so it's actually hard to derail the chain off the top of the chainring so even if the clutch doesnt keep the chain on at the bottom the top is solid enough it stays put, when you pedal the top will always re-attach the chain if it's off the bottom, i'm yet to drop a chain anyway.
  • 1 3
 I'll take the downvotes, I know what I saw.
  • 2 0
 @CamNeelyCantWheelie: I wouldn't paint all idler bikes with the same brush... not all idler bikes are the same.
  • 1 0
 Do you need a specially tuned EXT Storia for this frame?
  • 1 0
 Aren't they all specially tuned?
  • 2 0
 Vs the arrival?
  • 1 0
 Any mention about the known issues of the X2 by PB?
  • 1 0
 Guess it's still hard not to just buy a semi fresh enduro frame
  • 1 0
 Has anyone got an comparisons claymore vs enduro?
Cheers
  • 1 0
 Let see those Marins!!!
  • 3 4
 Alicia makes me nervous kinda
  • 4 0
 Tbh same
  • 3 6
 No motor how do you get to the top?
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