First Ride: 2022 Pivot Firebird - Ready to Fly

Aug 4, 2021 at 16:42
by Mike Kazimer  



Pivot has released the fifth generation of the Firebird, a bike whose origin dates back to 2008, when it debuted with 26” wheels and a fancy floating front derailleur mount. Those features are obviously long gone, and the latest iteration has design details that would have been hard to imagine 14 years ago.

Compared to the previous version, the new carbon-framed Firebird received the typical geometry changes – the head angle is a degree slacker, the seat tube angle is two degrees steeper, and the chainstay lengths now vary depending on the frame size. The reach has also grown by around 14 millimeters per size, and the rear travel has been increased a touch to 165mm.
Pivot Firebird Details

• Wheelsize: 29"
• Travel: 165mm
• Carbon frame
• 64° or 64.6° head angle
• Chainstay length: 438mm (size L)
• Sizes: S-XL
• Weight: 33.3 lb / 15.1kg (size L, as shown)
• Price range: $6,099 - $13,099 USD
pivotcycles.com


The longer and slacker trend changes were all done to keep the bike positioned as a fast, enduro race-oriented bike first and foremost, although there is a level of built-in adjustability that can be used to broaden its range of usable terrain.

The complete models all come with 29” wheels, but the bike can be run with a 27.5” rear wheel, or even with two 27.5” wheels – Pivot offers a 17mm lower headset cup that helps keep the bottom bracket height from getting too low with the smaller wheels.



Frame Details

The most obvious change to the Firebird's frame layout is the move to a vertically oriented, trunnion mount shock. Along with matching the look of Pivot's Switchblade and Trail 429 models, the design provides plenty of room for a full size water bottle inside the front triangle, something that was missing on the previous version. There are also two bolts in the underside of the top tube that can be used to mount a tool or tube holder – Pivot even has their own system available that was created in conjunction with Topeak.

Pivot incorporated SRAM's Universal Derailleur into the new frame, a feature that's fast becoming the norm on nearly every new mountain bike. It makes sense – there's really no need for hundreds of different hanger shapes to exist, and having one design should make it much easier to find a replacement.

Speaking of standards, Pivot were the first company to adopt Super Boost, 12 x157mm rear axle spacing, and that's still present on the Firebird. While it's easy to turn your nose up at a sort-of-new-standard, the amount of tire and heel clearance on this bike is impressive – even the biggest-footed riders in the muddiest zones shouldn't have any frame rub issues.





Live Valve Compatible

Fox's Live Valve electronic suspension system is often associated with XC and trail bikes, where climbing efficiency takes a high priority. According to Pivot, Live Valve works well with the Firebird too, where it makes it possible to have a firmer pedaling platform for the climbs, and an extra-plush fully open setting for the descents. The system adapts to the terrain in 3 milliseconds, switching between the two custom modes faster than the blink of an eye.

That fancy suspension tech doesn't come cheap, though; going with the Live Valve option adds $1,700 to the Firebird's final price tag.


The new Firebird now has a vertical shock configuration and 165mm of travel that's delivered by a dw-link suspension layout.



Geometry

I touched on the geometry changes already, but it's worth digging in to those numbers a little further. Let's start with the head angle, which now sits at 64-degrees in the low setting, one degree slacker than before. A seatstay flip chip allows that number to be steepened up by .6-degrees, an adjustment that corresponds with a 6mm change in bottom bracket height.

Part of me wishes that Pivot gave the Firebird a slack and extra-slack head angle; after all, this is a bike designed for the rowdiest terrain possible, but I'll reserve my final judgments until I get some more miles in. The bike does have a 1.5” head tube, so riders looking to go super-slack do have some aftermarket angle- or reach-adjusting headset options out there.

The reach numbers have increased by approximately 14mm per size, a change that was thankfully accompanied by a steeper seat tube angle of 77-degrees in order to keep the seated climbing position comfortable.

The final geometry point to note is the change to size-specific chainstays. Each frame size has its own chainstay length, ranging from 431mm on the size small, up to 445mm on the size XL.




Build Kits

Pivot offers a huge array of build kits, with drivetrain and suspension options available from both SRAM and Shimano, and suspension duties handled by Fox. The model we have in for testing is the Pro XT / XTR Coil version, which retails for $7,499. Highlights include a Fox Factory DHX2 coil shock, 170mm Fox 38 Factory fork, DT Swiss EX1700 wheels, Shimano XT 4-piston brakes, and a Shimano XT drivetrain with an XTR derailleur for some extra showroom style points.

The base model Firebird is the $6,099 Race XT. That build kit comes with Fox Performance Elite Float X shock, a 38 Performance fork, Shimano SLX / XT drivetrain, SLX 4-piston brakes, and DT Swiss M1900 wheels.

The Team XX1 AXS Live model sits at the top of the line, and retails for a whopping $13,099 USD. All of that dough gets you Fox's Live Valve electronic suspension, a SRAM XX1 AXS Eagle wireless drivetrain, Code RSC brakes, and Reynolds carbon wheels.



Eddie Masters flying sideways on the Firebird.

Ride Impressions

The exact traits that make a good enduro race bike are up for debate, but I'd say the Firebird certainly qualifies. Even with 165mm of travel and a coil shock it still has a very satisfying of level of acceleration when you stomp on the pedals, the sort of get-up-and-go that provides the extra boost needed to power up a sudden punchy climb, or to gain some extra speed before a reachy jump.

Speaking of jumps, I've been really impressed with this carbon bird's ability to get airborne. There are a bunch of A-Line and Dirt Merchant laps on the menu in the near future (that's very important work), but so far I have zero complaints about its ability to soar off a steep lip. The same goes for rough terrain – the Firebird eats it up without feeling like it's wallowing or sitting too deep in its travel. Getting the suspension feeling the way I want hasn't been any trouble, and it only took a couple rides to find the sweet spot for the DHX2 and Fox 38.

I will say that at 5'11” (180cm) I'm sort of in between sizes. I'm on the size large for this test, and on higher speed trails it's been easy to get along with, although on steeper, more awkward terrain there have been moments where I thought a little shorter front center might have made things easier. I did swap out the stock 20mm rise bar and 45mm stem for a 30mm rise bar and 40mm stem, which made thing more comfortable while climbing and descending. I'll go more in-depth on the sizing question in the long term review; for now, just know that it's worth spending some time poring over the geometry chart before making a final decision.

Overall, I think it's safe to say that Pivot's quest to make the new Firebird even faster than the previous version has definitely paid off. Once I've racked up enough miles I'll report back with details on how it stacks up against other contenders in this category.








381 Comments

  • 495 30
 13k Stop this shit
  • 155 6
 On our way to 24k. Then bikes will finally be worth their weight in gold.
  • 18 6
 I bet the only full rolls Royce builds with live valve are for display, review, team, or employees.
  • 107 16
 Base price of 6k. Way to ensure that only the rich kids will be on your brand.
  • 194 71
 don't blame Pivot(or any other manufacturer or anything). blame the world goverments that turned the f*cking money printers on and disabled the off switch.
  • 11 37
flag conoat (Aug 10, 2021 at 1:43) (Below Threshold)
 @Afterschoolsports: I would pay for it, if it truly delivers a noticable difference. also, other companies are coming out with their own versions very very soon. hold tight.....things are going to get......less bumpy. lol
  • 31 2
 @conoat: could not agree more... wait till they try to battle the inflation with higher rates and put an end to growth.. then we have less inflation, but no more money to buy bikes =)
  • 9 3
 @conoat: the price delta is quite significant on it. There won’t be many takers. The biggest issue with live valve on my maverick x3 is that whilst it is really good, aftermarket dumb shocks that weren’t very expensive are much better. Getting something like an ext, 11-6, kitsuma, or even the stock fox and having it valved for your riding, will have a much bigger return on investment, and everyone knows it.
  • 75 3
 Came here for the WTF 13k comments
  • 27 2
 Completely agree. Getting a bit out of hand now. Especially when companies like Nukeproof and even more so vitus are producing bikes with top spec parts for less then the base of some other brands. I just ordered a Spire but was looking at a new Bronson and couldnt believe the spec difference for the price comparison
  • 58 4
 Genuinely think mtbs are becoming like handbags (not that I'm a connoiseur) but you start paying for the brand name for probably no less performance (especially for the average rider)
  • 24 24
 @conoat: Pivot, Santa Cruz, Yeti etc. are premium brands. Politics has nothing to do with the prices they charge. You can get bikes with identical parts to the Pro XT build here for almost US$3k less.
  • 13 0
 @colincolin: S-Works Epic - Speed of Light Collection is 15k. I think 20k is near, maybe next year?
  • 2 4
 @Afterschoolsports: cant speek for your live valve, but i was told that the live valve on the new firebird is different to other live valves, in this case when it is electronicaly "locked" the suspention should feel more like it is stock and when it is open it sould be even more supple and the ramp up is controled by the live valve, havnt tried it though
  • 13 23
flag stubestrong (Aug 10, 2021 at 3:26) (Below Threshold)
 just buy crypto instead then pick up this build with the profits lol
  • 27 5
 @boozed: I am not sure if you're paying attention, but take your example. the bike with same build but $3k less. now go back to 2020 and compare that price to 2022 prices. almost certainly it's going to be up about the same percentage as the premium brands.

I never said it was politics. all political parties in western countries(and most non-western) have gone off the rails in regards to spending. So I am not blaming one side or another. I am blaming all sides. it's a disaster. The outcome is going to make the great depression look like a pothole to anyone not in the top 5% of wealth(who will be able to ride out the decade of malaise).

by 2030 this pivot bike will likely be $25,000.....or not exist because there's no market for MTB's as everyone is just trying to eat. either way, not good.
  • 19 9
 @johnnyboy11000: some of us are wealthy adults.

But I will pass on this and all pivots because of no frame only option and superboost
  • 85 3
 Nissan Versa sedan: $12,815
Chevrolet Spark: $12,995
Paper bag with holes so nobody sees you driving them: $.50

Firebird XX1: $13,099
Tall orange flag so everybody sees you riding it: $25.

I’d choose the bike with the DoucheFlag.
  • 26 5
 @SkinnySavage13: Grubel Forsay watch: $285,000 minimum. for a watch. also, 8 month waiting list! lol

Swatch: $30

both tell time!
  • 33 10
 @RedBurn AXS and live valve has always been that expensive. Cry me a river or maybe just don’t buy it.
  • 29 3
 That's a whole lot of root canals.
  • 3 1
 @conoat: nice time piece knowledge. Id take any grubel forsay over a Richard mille! Roger dubuis is the grail though Smile
  • 2 0
 @dylansanderson2004: my x3 was also fox and works on exactly the same principle. But electronic valve control isn’t new. It’s been tried before as early as the 90’s. I just hope it’s really effective and has legs this time.

My Mrs has recently installed a db kitsuma on her bike and that is the first climb/descend switch I’ve ridden that I would actually use. All the others I never touch. It’s a great shock and I will definitely be getting one when I have the spare funds. I’ve just spent way too much on toys over the last couple of years.
  • 2 0
 *yawn*

Just remember its the "Bawler's build"
  • 5 0
 @AlynPawlin: Except you don't buy a handbag and immediately drag it through ruts, mud, and get it as dirty as possible before resorting to a hose to saturate it and call it clean again.
  • 18 0
 This is why I’m happy that Aluminum frames seem to be making a comeback. Especially, when weights are at 33lbs with carbon.
  • 7 1
 @Afterschoolsports: false, pivot doesn't pay their employees nearly enough to buy one. A McDonald's manager somewhere has one on order
  • 8 0
 Pivot’s always had top of the market prices. When they started selling top of the market was $5-6k. There was a brief time when everyone else caught up to them and they had mid-level prices, but they’ve upped their game to stay competitive with s-works.
  • 2 0
 Yeah, I was like "holy shit guys"
  • 2 3
 @stubestrong: It would be easier just to send my money through the shredder
  • 6 0
 If you can accept an old fashioned aluminum frame and 2019 level tech, you can have a fantastic bike for less than half that.
  • 21 0
 Even the price tag is super boosted
  • 1 0
 @johnnyboy11000:

Wish they’d bring back some alu models as they’d sell like crazy. Back in the day they had an alu switchblade.
  • 4 0
 @johnnyboy11000: rich kids and brodeals that ride SOMO everyday...
  • 8 5
 It only stops when folks don't reach for their wallet. It's far beyond a decent profit margin, and veered well into "charge what the market will bear."
  • 1 0
 @V8Interceptor: Around 15 molars so not that much (an average work week Id say)
  • 29 4
 If you don’t like it don’t buy it. There are plenty of cheaper brands out there. Why should all brands be equally affordable? What entitles you to demand that you be able to afford a Pivot? If you can’t afford it go buy a Giant or a Canyon. They’re great bikes too.
  • 16 4
 @SkinnySavage13: BTW.....2021 Honda CRF450R's MSRP is $9599
  • 4 15
flag syeve (Aug 10, 2021 at 10:46) (Below Threshold)
 @jokermtb: then go buy one. Jesus.
  • 4 9
flag mybaben (Aug 10, 2021 at 11:14) (Below Threshold)
 Agreed, Pivot is utterly ridiculous!
  • 3 11
flag mybaben (Aug 10, 2021 at 11:15) (Below Threshold)
 @boozed: Agreed. Those brands are full of shit charging that much.
  • 3 0
 @stubestrong: That is actually how I paid for an sb130 lr...
  • 3 1
 @Mntneer: Yep..No frame option ruins it for me Everytime.
  • 2 2
 @stubestrong: It's dumb that you are being downvoted because the return on investment in just the last year has been 400% let alone the last decade where it's been the top performing asset. Just shows some people are dumb with their money. It's funny because this is actually how I bought my new bike this year.

@stumphumper92: If you only read headlines and don't actually follow the price then sure, shred it bro.
  • 6 3
 But the real question is, does it come with a 1-year subscription of Outside+?
  • 6 3
 @njcbps: do you have access to Pivot's books to provide their profit margin? Also, can you define 'decent profit margin'? You know what the margin is on clothing and shoes? VASTLY higher than bikes. Not defending current prices, but as most everyone else says...."If you don't like/can't afford a top end Pivot build (or any other build) ....don't buy one"
  • 12 5
 @jokermtb: 2021 Honda CRF450R's with TOP spec pro level components (and the engine mods in moto's case) would be $40k-$100k or even. This is considering other that shock tunes, we as MTB amateur riders can pretty much buy and ride the exact same spec as MTB pros. A 'stock' CRF450's we can pick up in the showroom would be considered a Deore'ish level build or similar
  • 14 0
 @conoat:
Step 1: find a complex equation with a dozen variables
Step 2: pick the variable that matches your narrative
Step 3: focus on the variable from step 2 and ignore the other 11 variables as if they don't exist (aka, pick your variable and be a d!ck about it)
  • 6 0
 @notthatfast: Thank you, sir, for stating the obvious to the price-tag-whiners that don't understand either the costs a company puts into their bike design and manufacturing process or, simply, how basic consumer markets work.
  • 5 1
 chris likes money
  • 3 4
 @bman33: I understand the average US profit margin is 7%

Agriculture and Forestry = 8.4%
Mining = -16.9%
Construction = 4.6%
Manufacturing = 2%
Wholesale and Retail Trade = 2%
Professional and Technical Services = 6.3%

www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/average-profit-margin-small-business


I'd be surprised if bike MFG's were only reaping a 10% net profit. As far as I understand, carbon frame and component MFG is still labour intensive. But everything else: Alum frames, forks, derailleurs, pedals et al?

I can do both too–not buy their products and criticize high prices.
  • 4 3
 @bman33: Bikes don't have the economies of sales that motorcycles enjoy, and I think this would also be aggravated by each bike model having different frame size. IE more costs to produce tooling, molds et al.

But comparing top end models from motocycles to bicyles is a spurious argument.

Instead, lay out a bill of materials of bikes vs motorcycles each with prices. Estimate the costs to MFG.
  • 4 0
 @njcbps: not really a "spurious" argument at all. Yes, economies of scale are a factor. That said, those scales go both ways. Lower volume at high quality = higher pricing usually. Therefore further reinforcing my moto example. Point is, this bike and those at the same spec and similar frame quality are and will be $$$$$. Expensive? Absolutely.
  • 4 3
 It's amazing, they've managed to make the specialized Kenevo SL look like a good deal.
  • 3 13
flag tarik28 (Aug 10, 2021 at 15:05) (Below Threshold)
 Santa Cruz is not premium. Or boutique @boozed:
  • 7 1
 well thats how much it costs for true carbon, top level electronic fox suspension, sram axs, i9 hubs, Reynolds carbon rims and a bike that when you ride it you can tell a lot of work went into it when it was being designed
  • 5 2
 @tarik28:

Agree no longer boutique as they're mainstreamAF and everywhere.

Premium in engineering, quality, and price.
  • 1 1
 @colincolin: Careful, bike companies may take your advice!
  • 2 1
 Ready to fly...out of your dreams.
  • 2 1
 C'mon now, stop complaining about the price...it has room for a water bottle inside the front triangle!
  • 4 1
 @njcbps: $100 dollars says you don't know what the FOB of these frames are. Which wouldn't give you a reference for margin. Yet you seem to understand what all goes into making a high end carbon bike... Very confused
  • 2 7
flag blackthorne (Aug 10, 2021 at 20:48) (Below Threshold)
 @NorCalNomad: you defend the Chris who sells the $13,500 bike, hilarious. First world problems much?
  • 1 2
 @NorCalNomad: aah not you meant the other guy justifying the price!!!
  • 2 1
 @njcbps: Ya, that’s great (even if it’s wrong and doesn’t prove anything). Because what it doesn’t say is the revenue. Professional services companies make a hell of a lot more than single digits margins for example, and construction companies deal in the tens or hundreds of millions in revenue.
  • 1 2
 @Reno233: I don't think the information provided in that link can be dismissed so quickly because it lists "Professional and Technical Services."

www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/average-profit-margin-small-business

Bike companies fit the definition of "small business" too, since they're not publicly traded. And the closest match is manufactured, which has a net profit average of ~7% in the USA (according to my quick research).
  • 1 1
 @saladdodger: If you buy using loan, you still don't have money to buy.
  • 3 11
flag Losvar (Aug 11, 2021 at 0:05) (Below Threshold)
 13k for a bike where you have horrible cable rub on both sides of the BB. Gonna be fun when it eats holes through your gazillion dollar frame. Whoever designed the cable routing on this bike must have some extra difficulties in day to day life.
  • 3 2
 @njcbps: I think you would be surprised at the economies of scale that these “premium” mainstream brands can achieve on their frames. At work we (an Australian aerospace engineering firm) used to have to compete with composite manufacturers in Asia. On small runs we were cost competitive but when volumes went up past 1000 units, the Asian manufacturing facilities blew us away. We could barely buy the raw materials for the price that they can deliver finished products.
  • 2 1
 @jokermtb: ...its a tilted world we live in.
  • 3 11
flag thenotoriousmic (Aug 11, 2021 at 11:01) (Below Threshold)
 @AlynPawlin: Pivot isn’t even a prestigious brand name though. They were pretty much unknown a few years ago and made a reputation for themselves by coming up with silly prices for their products. Nukeproof has more clout in the UK that pivot.
  • 1 1
 @colincolin: but does gold come with livevalve and xx1 axs? Nope
  • 1 6
flag DG370 (Aug 11, 2021 at 11:39) (Below Threshold)
 @conoat: Like the new Singer Porsches, 2mil a piece, made 75, sold out, sorry but no actual DRIVING enthusiast is ever going to get a go.

I do feel the wealth imbalance is growing.
  • 2 2
 This build is a good way for thieves in the know who to rob.
  • 5 1
 @DG370: so should Porsche and similar manufacturers only build cars that everybody can afford and not do hypercars with the top spec components and performance they possibly can just because the common man can't afford it?

The Best of the Best with cars, bicycles, motos, homes, audio, etc etc have always been out of the reach of many common folks. Sometime premium comes from a brand, sometime premiums come from quality and performance, and often times a combination of that. Is this bike ridiculously expensive at the top end? Absolutely. However, there's zero reason why pivot or any other company shouldn't be able to build it just because not everyone can afford it. Obviously somebody's buying these things and they wouldn't be building them
  • 1 1
 @boozed: Maybe $1000 less if built with the same parts.
  • 1 3
 @bman33: no that’s not what I’m saying, it’s that you don’t need to spend 2mil to make a car like that or whatever product relative to perform as well.
EG if you bought a 964 and spent 200k on it, it would perform equally.

In its extreme it puts products that actual end users would USE and ENJOY out of reach, and only available to those super rich who buy them as a STATUS symbol or just another toy in the cabinet in used, like an old Tonka toy.
  • 1 1
 @DG370: You are assuming though that people with money can't or don't know how to use and enjoy things. I can assure you that is a fallacy. I bought an expensive bike in May and already have 70 days riding on it and set many new PR's / top 10 times on it. I didn't buy it to look at it.
  • 3 0
 @thenotoriousmic: do you understand how small the UK MTB market is? lol

let me put it in perspective: the state of Florida, with no mountains and 1/3rd the pop. of the UK, sells more MTBs than the UK. California sells 5x the bikes Florida does. California is only about 40% of the MTB market in the US. the US market is about 30% of the world market.

UK MTB sales are a rounding error.
  • 2 0
 @DG370: a Doesenberg in 1930 was $500,000 or so in todays dollars....and they sold the f*ck out of them.
  • 1 5
flag thenotoriousmic (Aug 12, 2021 at 2:36) (Below Threshold)
 @conoat: what’s that got to do with anything? And they’re just talking about mountain bikes in general, £300 Halfords bikes not what we’d consider a mountain bike. They’re not being used as mountain bikes by actual mountain bikers. I doubt there’s as many legit mountain bikers in California that their are in the UK. You only need to look at how much better the UK does at world cups compared to the USA to see on a whole they don’t take mountain biking seriously.
  • 2 4
 @bman33: You can’t really compare making hand built German sports cars in Europe to sourcing cheap carbon frames from the same factory in China that everyone uses and putting your own sticker on it. Porsche have a million things to point at to justify the cost even Nukeproof have a few EWS overalls to justify theirs, what do pivot have?
  • 6 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Gwin is from California. It’s also the birthplace of mountain biking. Also Northstar, Mammoth, and Snow Summit. The entire sierra nevada mountain range. Yeah, you’re right no serious mountain bikers here. Also Pivot has 3x Hardline wins. You have heard of that race, right?
  • 4 0
 @GBeard:

not to mention a baller EWS team of hard charging Kiwis etc. and lots of podiums. Pivot’s in the mix all over the board. Just a little pricey for me.
  • 7 0
 @thenotoriousmic: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......AHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....

HOLY SHIT BRO! you can't be serious...I moved to london about a year ago from.....wait for it......CALIFORNIA! I can assure you, there are both far better riders, more of them, and more of a scene in CA than here. I wasn't just pulling those numbers from my arse you know....I worked in the MTB industry and had those sales numbers at my beck and call.

and WC? you mean the Euro Cups????

as an anecdote, I am decently quick on a bike(enduro/DH). I was on the cusp of a fast expert ameteur and a really slow pro....Here? yeah, I have so many KOM's in the surrey hills in just one summer, it's stupid. The riders here aren't fast...they all want to ride like Rat Boy and jib off shit on a small wheeled bike. which I ain't knocking, it's fun. But it's a whole different animal from the steeps of Santa Cruz, SLO, Pacifica, Simi Valley, etc etc ETC.

I will make one concession...You lads can ride in the muck. lol. Cali ain't used to that and it takes a different approach for sure. that said, you'd flail so hard in the moon dust of California August riding, you'd think everyone was on steroids as they blast by you.
  • 4 0
 @bman33: exactly. Also building bikes is extremely expensive. All the testing, staffing and marketing is expensive and you have no idea how many different frame Interations they went through before the final product. And carbon layup is a lot different because it’s stiff in some areas and provides flex in other areas and that takes engineering. And xc bikes with mechanical shifting (specialized epic World Cup) was almost 12k like 4-5 years ago.
  • 4 6
 @conoat: you can assure me all you want but since the entire USA can only produce one World Cup winner in the last ten or twenty years I can safely assume we’ve got California covered. I don’t even know how many British riders have won world cups in the last 15 years but you can safely say we’ve absolutely dominated and you don’t do that without the trails to learn those skills. If you’re ever up north your more than welcome to come and have a go. See if you can ride them without getting off and walking. London and the south east intact the whole south is notoriously bad for mountain biking.
  • 4 2
 @AlynPawlin: When you get a new Firebird, they should also give you a tiny 1 foot tall version for your desk (or Dental Office lounge).
  • 1 0
 @V8Interceptor: like… 9 root canals!
  • 1 0
 @glen-allaire: 15 molars? BS! Stop that single visit, basic hypo, reusable file garbage. patients deserve better. A bike is temporary, a root canal is for 12 years, give or take the quality of the coronal seal.
  • 1 0
 there's 6k model
  • 1 0
 just give me another 10 years......
  • 1 0
 @conoat: BITCOIN FIXES THIS
  • 1 0
 @bms: thats for the people who said they would buy bitcoin when it hits 10k again. But it never will.
  • 114 3
 Just sold my 'old' firebird 29. Here are some things I'm hoping to experience with the new one. Improved paint quality - The SandStorm paint would peel off around the edges of places like dropouts, headtube, BB shell etc. Very annoying for such an expensive bike and made it look tatty. The paint was also susceptible to UV staining which was annoying. Pivot bearings - In some bearing locations I could put the bearings in and out by hand they were that loose, needless to say bearings in that location wouldn't last long. Lots of Loctite 461 required to stop the outer race spinning in their shells. Chainstay guards- Mine began to peel off after a year, yes they are available to buy as replacements but I live in Wales and its never hot enough to warm the adhesive up that much to cause it to detach. Also would've liked to see some sort of metal plate protector on the edge of the chainstay that sits behind the chainring, chain suck is a thing and the Firebird is not exempt. Internal routing - If you are going to charge so much you need to incorporate guided internal routing, like the majority of other bikes out there right now. No mention of it on this new frame either which is disappointing.
  • 6 0
 Nope the person who bought tour bike skips this. Bearings in by hand would be a bit concerning
  • 9 0
 @usedbikestuff: apparently not to Pivot QC
  • 6 0
 This should be the top comment.
  • 3 9
flag RedBurn (Aug 10, 2021 at 4:21) (Below Threshold)
 Why pay so much??? Stop it Man ne smart
  • 21 0
 How is any of that acceptable on a bike that costs that much?
  • 19 3
 Chris Cochalis has something against tube in tube routing (similar to how he thinks SuperBoost is the best invention ever) so it will never happen. Get ready to dodge the Pivot fanboys who think it’s the greatest thing ever.
  • 9 4
 holy shit ! Can't believe how much they cut corners, I was expecting top notch quality at this price point. So you don't get what you pay for with them
  • 11 3
 @Charlotroy: Didn't someone at another high-end manufacturer say recently that tube-in-tube messes with the carbon layup? Another reason I'll probably always go with external routing on my bikes, but gotta admit that this Firebird looks sweet.
  • 15 5
 Huh. Who knew trying to out-price Yeti and Santa Cruz without proportionally increasing overall quality so it matches its price would lead to shoddy fit and finish and harsh criticism from owners? Who. Knew.
  • 1 0
 @ABhardtail: havent heard such a thing and with as many Tube in Tube routed bikes out there, you dont hear about failures at all
  • 10 0
 @FarmerJohn: read the article about the new WeAreOne frame - they suggested TiT layup impairs compaction, and they know their carbon and strength:weight. It’s not about failures so much as the unnecessary added weight necessary to avoid failures.
Also perhaps consider that one individual’s experience may not fully reflect the reality of the situation.
  • 6 0
 @ABhardtail: I believe that was in the WA1 writeup. Both of my Specialized bikes have tube in tube and ride great so not sure I buy it.

"It's a feature, not a bug" comes to mind
  • 8 0
 @hobbnobs: had all of these issues on mine as well! UV fading on the paint, rattling cables in the frame, lower pivot bearings that can be put in by hand. Not to mention cable routing for the rear derailleur that almost wore entirely through one of the iscg tabs by 1-2cm (carbon) the way the suspension travels. I noticed the cable rub issue happened on all of my friends bikes that have firebirds as well. The bike rides amazing and is a nice stiff chassis but quality is not on the same level as Santa Cruz.
  • 1 0
 @stokalation: ha! Forgot to mention that cable rub issue as well. Agreed on ride quality, Dave Weagle is a master mind.
  • 9 3
 As a previous gen FB owner and a bike mechanic, I actually disagree. Internal routing tubes can have some issues. They can break inside the bike and then it's hours to cut/fish them out. if any moisture/dirt gets into the tube, it can be nearly impossible to get the housing back out. also, the current Pivot design for routing the cables, as seen on the current switchblade, trail 429, etc, is one of the easiest to route of any bike made. takes like 2 minutes total per cable/housing line.

I also haven't seen this poor QC you mention despite two hard seasons on an FB29 and probably 200 Pivots built.
  • 5 2
 @blackercanyons: We don't have off seasons in the UK and I gave that bike hell for over 2 years, riding all over Europe and UK including multiple National & regional enduro races. I actually raced it for DH a couple of times too.

Granted it was still solid when I sold it, no cracks or odd noises, just the oddities I mentioned above.

The same can't be said for other bikes I've had so there lies some merit in the way Pivot do their carbon work.
  • 2 2
 I hope you won't try again with those quality issues.
  • 8 2
 @hobbnobs: I don't have off seasons, either. I travel around the US to stay in riding season. I rode my FB29 for probably 100 bike park days on DH, jump lines, tech, plus probably 200 or more trail days. Moab, Bellingham, all over Colorado, Tahoe/Downieville, Pisgah, Bentonville, Angelfire, Big Sky, you name it. I didn't race it but I rode it on plenty of DH race trails. and I'm a big dude. Never had any QC issues or issues with pivots rounding out or bearing fitment. none. zero. and when I crashed and put a hole in my rear triangle with a very pointy rock at high speed, Pivot was super cool about helping me out on a crash replacement.

I also am adamantly against internal carbon tubes for internal routing. personally i wish bikes would go back to external routing except for droppers.
  • 3 0
 This is surprising to me. My 2019 SB has the metal mesh chain suck protector (not that I've used it). Guided internal routing would be nice, but the ports at the head tube and the large opening at the BB for DI2 makes getting the cables where they need to be pretty easy. I also had perfect fit on all my bearings. When I rebuild my rear linkage last year they were too tight to remove without damaging them. Ended up pulling off the seals for a flush and re-grease and called it a day. They were still pretty smooth. My only paint issues with chipping were from rocks hitting the pivot behind the seat tube for the upper link (old design with top tube mounted shock). I'd be curious if any other FB owners had these issues.
  • 5 3
 @blackercanyons: Ah well seems it hit or miss with Pivot bikes, shouldn't be that way for what they charge though.
  • 5 6
 @hobbnobs: literally every company has bikes that have issues. Yetis crack rear triangles. SC's have clearcoat issues and other things. shit happens.
  • 9 6
 @blackercanyons: Yeah and all I'm doing is reporting on my experiences. You are coming off as really butt hurt.
  • 7 8
 @hobbnobs: I'm literally just counterpointing with my own experience. You're now making insults about it, which makes you look like the butthurt one.
  • 11 0
 Pivot frames use some slip-fit bearing pockets on the non-drive side that require the use of bearing retaining compound. This allows the bearing to move the to correct location when assembling the frame so the links don't bend or bind if the triangles are slightly wide or narrow. So its not a design issue but maybe an assembly issue. Knowledge is power.
  • 1 0
 @palirojo: Great bit of info!
  • 2 0
 @hobbnobs: It's also important to install and torque the drive side first and then install the non drive side so that everything lines up correctly. I forgot that part
  • 1 0
 @wibblywobbly: is there a brand you think is doing it right?
  • 2 2
 @blackercanyons: Do you run your brakes moto? If not, why are you adamantly against guided cable routing? I mean, I could imagine being ambivalent about it maybe—like you don’t care one way or another. But adamantly opposed? That I don’t get at all.
  • 2 1
 @BrambleLee: i listed my reasons for being against internal carbon tubed cable routing above.
  • 3 0
 the internal cable channels, as several companies are discovering, is actually a factor in frame failures. they don't allow very good compaction of the fibers in the molding process. go ask Spesh about the new Enduro....
  • 3 2
 Guided internal routing is for muppets.
  • 4 0
 @conoat: do you have a source for this other than what the WeAreOne guys said in their launch PR?

“Tube in tube routing is bad” is turning in to the next “all carbon frames are bad because Leo from Pole said so”
  • 1 2
 @wibblywobbly: I do, but it's first hand from a company owner(engineer). I can't exactly link to a conversation that was had over beers.
  • 3 1
 @blackercanyons: Agreed. Pivots routing system is the best because the ports are large enough to put in a little foam around the cable housing to stop rattling. Plus you can run your brakes on either side and it looks good. Anyone who prefers internally guided is basically admitting that they are terrible as a mechanic. That's ok, but they should be honest about it instead of blaming the bicycle design.
  • 1 0
 @bikelust: Not a FB, but on a Mach 6 V3. I put a square of 3M tape over my rear upper linkage so rocks can't get in there. I also have a plastic mud guard that deflects them. With the Invisiframe and these mods, I'm going on two years riding this thing and I'm pretty sure that it has zero scratches or chips. I don't crash much so that helps.
  • 1 0
 @JohanG: Yep, I've since added some tape and a marsh guard and it keeps things pretty clean and rock-chip free.
  • 84 1
 I’m SICK AND TIRED if all the “XT” builds that only have one XT component, with all SLX.
  • 29 1
 And worse, that one XT component is the derailleur, the component that only saves 30g over SLX (compared to 60g+ for the cassette) and offers no performance benefits or features other than more durable pulleys and bearings (compared to the multi-release/2-way release features on the XT shifter). And that XT derailleur seems like it would be more vulnerable than usual to rock strikes with Pivots being Super Boost, which would make me want to have something cheaper there. Is the XT derailleur just there for the visible branding to make the build kit look better than it is? Hopefully the reason is just parts availability or whatever, but even so it would be more honest to not call it an "XT Build."

That said, I'd be thrilled if I ever got a chance to ride a Firebird and I'm happy for you if you get one.
  • 5 1
 Next they'll be claiming XT build but the only XT component will be the shifter and everything else Deore
  • 12 1
 @stumphumper92: I had the high level idea of buying the Deore Spur build and then swapping the drivetrain out for XT. It ended up only being like a $225 upgrade once I sold off the old parts. They were kind of a pain to find during the pandemic, but I did it. I kept the Deore cranks (because who cares) and the brakes (actually very happy with them).
  • 6 1
 @stumphumper92: I'd actually be pretty happy with that drivetrain setup, especially if they labeled it honestly
  • 7 0
 @ABhardtail: Having the XT shifter is nice because you can multishift in both directions. The XT cassette saves a fair amount of weight over the SLX cassette, but it isn't a deal breaker for most people.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: Ya when I bought my bike a couple years ago it came with NX. By the time I bought new parts and sold the old I must've only spent an extra $100 or so upgrading to GX. Makes more sense to buy the lower spec and swap for the better spec.. Next time I buy a new bike I will buy low spec and swap most of my components from my old bike (assuming industry standards are still the same) and sell my old bike with new components.
  • 3 0
 This goes back to the 90's so don't expect it to change. The RD is the most prominent component for display and (at least for Sram) does make a difference in shifting.

Next time you are in a shop compare the amount of play between an NX and XO1 RD by moving the cage back and forth from the bottom pulley.
  • 5 0
 @stumphumper92: that's better than the shit shifter and nice derailleur!

mech's are stupid, the shifter is where the feel and performance comes from. it's so f*cking asinine that they all do it the other way around.
  • 3 0
 @HB208: the xt crankset saves 260 grams, or a half pound, over deore. Cassette is only half that much weight savings. Cranks are the biggest upgrade you could make.
  • 2 0
 @ABhardtail: That's the same as with most X01 builds too, they often use only the derailleur, as that's the thing people see.
It was never about performance, just about appearance.
  • 71 0
 2022 Hinge Hotchicken. available in wingsauce orange and thighmeat grey.
  • 46 0
 Spicy AND pricey
  • 8 0
 @boozed: Chicken of the cave
  • 42 1
 Why didnt he test the Medium?
  • 23 7
 These days my preferred reach is around 480mm. The large is closer to that number than the medium, so that’s what I went with. I also have longish legs, and that 410mm seat tube length on the medium would probably leave me with a decent amount of post showing.

I’ve also had a Commencal Meta TR as a personal bike for the last year, and I’ve gotten along well with its 490mm reach.
  • 86 0
 @mikekazimer: I think it was a reference to Dan Roberts review of Knolly's fullsus BMX Wink
  • 9 0
 @mikekazimer: Yeah as eldsvada said its a hint at the Knoll test. Youre a bit smaller tham him and went with the "right" size :-)
  • 3 2
 I had a chance to ride a medium of this bike down the street, at 6' I was pleasantly surprised with how comfortable the seated pedaling position felt. I would definitely consider a medium for myself despite being on 480mm reach bikes the past 3+ years
  • 1 0
 You already made a meme out of the Knolly review!
  • 1 0
 Because he's faster than Tow Ball
  • 4 2
 @mikekazimer: "would probably leave me with a decent amount of post showing." That's what she said. I'll show myself out....
  • 25 4
 “as a rich guy, I demand to have the new Firebird first. I need to flex on the other rich guys on my Wednesday night four miler. If you can’t get it to me day one, I don’t want it and I’ll get the Yeti ebike instead”

“We only have the live valve AXS build and the only way the shop can sell it to you is with a set of ENVE’s on it. Otherwise you can get a poor person build for 7 grand in 2024”

*throws Centurion card on the counter*
  • 11 0
 Only a noob would fall for such a roose. We all know they come with Reynolds!
  • 6 8
 Or, quit bellyaching, work hard and become a rich guy and buy any bike you want. In the meantime there are many other great bikes at a lower price point for you to choose from..
  • 24 1
 fun fact: a long reach will give you a discount on a Sprinter
  • 21 1
 We need more creative ways to express our feelings about post pandemic bike prices. Pb should allow gif comments and sickass emojis lol
  • 15 0
 Outside subscribers will have those options.
  • 5 0
 I thought you were going to suggest interpretive dance or some other creative was to express your feelings. now I'm a bit disappointed.
  • 25 13
 I love my 2017 FB and I'm sure I'll love this one when I buy it secondhand too. Relax with all the hate for once, these comment sections are awful lately. One minute "dentist bike" is a funny joke and the next it's a pitchfork party. I bet 90% of the complainers have never even ridden one, forget owning one. I got downvoted for saying that carbon is light and better for climbing one time. Obviously logic is left at the door when you can "vote" with your emotions. But just relax, for real. You'll feel better someday. Ride what you have/like/can afford and don't fuss about the rest.
  • 11 2
 Ride what you can afford... many people can't even afford an entry level full sus at this point. Lots of people wanting to get into this sport but can't.
  • 14 0
 it doesn't matter what companies do, the pinkbike pitchforks come out. This design addresses a lot of issues PB reviews and comments complained about endlessly about previous versions, like the lack of water bottle in the main triangle, inability to run a coil, geo too conservative for the times, not having size specific chainstays, etc,...All those things got fixed, yet people are STILL mad.
  • 7 0
 @stumphumper92: but other brands exist? My friend just got into mtb. With stock issues it took a bit to find something, but he got a Polygon Siskiu T7. $2k for 12 speed and decent brakes and suspension.

Just because Pivot makes expensive bikes doesn’t mean cheap bikes don’t exist. Hell, I’d argue that cheap bikes are so good because people buying these expensive bikes help pay for companies to do R&D and make things better for everyone. If shimano didn’t make money off of XTR I’m guessing Deore wouldn’t be where it is today
  • 2 1
 @sdurant12: I ride a Vitus so I am well aware "cheap"-er bikes still exist. But add all the other things you gotta buy like a quality bike rack, helmet, gloves, guards, maintenance.. it is not a cheap sport. Prices keep climbing and pretty soon these cheaper bikes like Polygon and Vitus will follow suit. MTB industry is price gouging its consumers but supply and demand.. people will pay it so they will charge it.
  • 4 0
 @stumphumper92: no it’s not a cheap sport. But a modern $1000 hardtail is a better bike than a top of the line bike from 10 years ago. Sure it might be as good as a modern $10k super bike, but if I had $1k to buy any bike from the past 50 years brand new at msrp, you can bet I would be spending it on a bike that came out in the past two years, and not on a top of the line 1999 Schwinn homegrown or whatever.

I personally don’t care if top end bikes get more expensive. It’s not like it makes such a big difference that someone on a cheaper bike can’t keep up. (Ebikes change the equation, which is part of the reason I’m not a fan).
  • 4 0
 Oops. I meant “Sure, it might *not* be as good as a modern $10k superbike”

Also want to add that helmet is needed, but the rest is optional. I shoved my bike into my trunk for a couple years. That’s still possible. It sucks but it works
  • 1 0
 @stumphumper92: almost everyone I know started on a budget hardtail and worked their way up to something nicer.
  • 14 3
 I wonder how this compares to the Yeti SB150. Unfortunately, new bikes always only get compared with other new bikes when it would be more useful to make reference to bikes we already know. The SB150 will go into its 4th year next year.
  • 8 0
 4th?? Time flies dude
  • 4 0
 @Noeserd: yep. Only color changes for 2022.
  • 2 0
 I had the same thought. Check out 99spokes to compare old vs. new bikes. Really helpful site.
  • 3 0
 I think we are almost to peak bike if you could buy a 4 year old bike and it still feel solid and modern.
  • 14 0
 This isn’t the Grim Doughnut Mk.2 we were promised.
  • 1 0
 When will Donnut be available?
  • 4 0
 @downtownier: When you buy an Outside+ Subscription!
  • 2 0
 Speaking of donuts, where's Levy?
  • 13 4
 The fact that tall riders are considering a medium (this and knolly review) shows we may have reached the end of the longer and slacker trend!
  • 8 1
 I have the previous generation Firebird. Fantastic fun bike and good value at the time. This new one looks like an incremental improvement, mainly with the vertically mounted shock so that it is now coil compatible. Good job Pivot. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Also tired of reading super boost complaints. I can interchange the rear wheel with my DH bike, which is really handy given the intentions of this bike.
  • 1 0
 I hate Supa Boost as much as the next guy but DH bike spacing being all over the map is much worse! You’re one of the lucky ones. If all DH bikes were 157 it’d be much easier to swallow, but people will resist it until Trek, Specialized and ebikes do it which doesn’t seem to be happening any time soon.
  • 10 2
 Shout out to pivot for considering those of us who don’t want to run big wheels. It’s not that difficult, I hope it’s a sign of things to come.
  • 8 0
 This! Honestly it's more than I want to spend but if it means I can run 27.5" wheels this might be the one. I've tried 29" and just can't ride comfortably or fast. Being tall I thought 29" would be great, but I think it's more down to personal preference and riding style.
  • 11 0
 @Freakyjon: I’m glad I’m not the only tall rider that prefers smaller wheels! I hate being told large sizes available in 29” only.

Yes I know I can throw spacers under the headset cup myself, but having a properly engineered solution from the manufacturer is very welcome.
  • 6 0
 Mach 6??
  • 5 0
 I found my OG FB29 a bit to steep and high, so I ran it with 27.5 wheels and a -2 angleset, which made it a lot more planted. However the seat angle killed my back, so it got sold on. BB height is still a bit high for non-rocky terrain but this looks better in all other respects... Now if it only had 2018 pricing!
  • 7 3
 I find their infinite desire for shorter chainstay mysterious. It just doesn't feel good when your front end grow so much while keeping the same rear length. And they also gave up 435mm on phoenix29, it's 444 now. Odd they keep that on firebird.
  • 4 0
 @knightmarerider: I was super scared when I placed an order for my Meta AM (63.6°, Reach: 495, CS: 433) because I was riding long CS bike but everything is fine. First few rides I was thinking about it constantly, but then nothing happened. It's just a great bike
  • 4 5
 if only we had 2018 inflation... money printers go brrrrrrrrrrrr
  • 3 2
 @knightmarerider: I don’t understand this either. After riding a bike with longer stays, I would never go back to unbalanced bikes.
  • 9 0
 The previous one looks better
  • 9 3
 Make it as expensive as you want and theres always someone who is desperate to spend money. You can buy a handbag for 15k, no one will care that you own that either.
  • 5 3
 Yup and mtb has legit turned into a fashion sport. How many people do you see out on the trail with $10k bikes but either barely ride the thing or takes it down the green trails. To clarify, there's nothing wrong with that, but why spend so much money on having the best piece of machinery when you aren't using it as such? Most people would be more than sufficient on a $3k bike. Everything else is for glamour for a lot of these riders. To each their own, but there's a reason these companies are charging what they do, because there is someone out there that will buy it!
  • 1 0
 @stumphumper92: I literally can feel the difference between one click on my X2. Love the adjustments. But also have major scratches on my frame and a rear wheel that isn't so round anymore.
  • 1 0
 @stumphumper92: Do you drive the cheapest possible car because they all get you from A to B?
  • 4 0
 Four great riding seasons in, and my new ride has arrived. I expect the switch from the old FB 29 won't be problematic. I have been hoping Pivot won't make a radical change, because there was no need for it. It did appease the bottle needy and heard those in need of longer chain stays, but in general the bike has been more polished than redesigned. Super happy. Eagerly waiting for the first ride.
  • 1 0
 Forget the first ride. Just ordered one yesterday, there is a 10 month waiting time I was told.
  • 4 0
 I like that they have an option for a taller lower headset cup for 27.5" wheels. More brands should offer this. Maybe they'll sell it separately.
Edit: Pivot sells them on their website. Ordered one to use on my Patrol coming this month. Fingers crossed it works!
  • 10 3
 Im looking forward to the Factory Dentist build at $15000
  • 4 1
 Well bravo Pivot for finally coming around and making size specific chainstays. Unfortunately I think each sizes rear is 5-10mm too short. I think the front/rear balance is still going to be a bit off but this must just be Pivot's sizing philosophy. I would consider one now whereas Pivot always made weird decisions that made them a hard pass.

Another complaint, why a 175mm dropper on the large when the seat tube is nice and short and would easily accommodate the 200mm post? Make the decision for most riders and if a few riders who upsize need a shorter dropper then they change vs. the majority who could run and appreciate the longer dropper. Also why you no Assegai in the front Pivot?
  • 3 0
 "Part of me wishes that Pivot gave the Firebird a slack and extra-slack head angle; after all, this is a bike designed for the rowdiest terrain possible,"

The Large has an 830mm front-center. It'll be fine. Especially since sometimes rowdy terrain is not always the very steepest terrain, and you still need to be able to weight the front wheel, especially when powering through the rowdy traverse stuff.
  • 3 0
 "although on steeper, more awkward terrain there have been moments where I thought a little shorter front center might have made things easier."

Oh, well, that doesn't match. A slacker headtube would have made the front-center even longer. Which is it you really want?

But when would a shorter front center ever be good on steep awkward stuff? If it's super steep the front is already going to be weighted, so get that axle way out there so you can keep driving it into the terrain, and be able to brake hard when needed, but also prevent endos.
  • 3 0
 I don't mind that there are some expensive bikes out there and I understand the brands sending only the very best to the reviewer. But if you are a good journalist/editor you ought to reach to your user base and do more reviews of bikes sub 1.5k, sub 2k and sub 3k as well. Brands don't send them to you? Did you even asked? There is also the possibility to reach to bike shops, buy some of the less expensive ones and offer to buy them to pinkbike users with a discount after the test period or reach to pinkbike user to review their new bikes. Less expensive options are perfectly rideable, some would ask for an upgrade in a selected number of wearable/components but this is the very information we need.
  • 3 0
 You dont have to buy one if you dont want. The tech that was on WC bikes only ten years ago is now kicking round on low end bikes. It all trickles down as we are enticed to spend 1k on marginal gains in next years fork model. Id like to see PB do an article mapping trickle down tech over the year.
  • 3 0
 I used to get worked up about these sorts of prices when I returned to riding after several years away, and then I went to a mtb festival back in maybe 2018 or so with friends. We were all riding a wide variety of bikes from a $10k bike down to a $3000 bike (me). My buddy on the $10k bike absolutely loves his and it would be easy to see mine as greatly lesser on so many levels. That said, my bike is no less fast with me aboard it. He and I would trade downhill leads and there was no clearly faster bike or pilot. Just old downhill racing friends hooting and holering down the trails.

Clutch rear deraileurs, narrow wide chainrings, and tubeless tires are what's important to me now. Running through the woods without all of the clang and bang of our early to mid 2000's downhill and trail bikes is all I need with reasonably good suspension. The midlevel forks and shocks of today are as good or better than anything I rode before. I recently bought a Santa Cruz Megatower which is WAY more bike that I ever imagined buying. Seemed overpriced but my wife told me to spend it and treat myself after some hard times. Is it better than my other 2017 bike? Sure. Will I ride both? definitely. Run what you brung and have fun. If you're a fast rider and you care about being fast, you'll be fast on a bike with slightly "outdated" geometry and suspension.
  • 4 2
 I had the previous Firebird and after trying a few bikes in between I had compiled a "perfect" geo in my head. Hot Dog!! This size large in the steep setting is making me moist! Enough with the slack and slacker - just shy of 65 degree head angle with a seat angle just shy of 78 is the magic zone for me. Also, the chainstay length isn't stupid long - big check mark.
  • 2 0
 Nice to see them coming around with their geo. Hopefully one day they will offer framesets with superboost spacing cranks included. Lack of a frameset option has always been my biggest reason for not buying a Pivot(other than the mach 5.5 I owned). I think their business model tries to maximize margins by only offering complete bikes. Hey that's fine...but some of us prefer our parts... especially if we're going to spend $7k.
  • 2 0
 With all the focus on $13K, I think it's pretty junky that $6100 is the CHEAPEST build...and that's SLX.

I get the high end, but both SC and Ibis (comparable, I think) offer builds around $5k and AL versions of some models.
  • 3 2
 It's a boutique brand. When people see me riding a Pivot, they admire me. Intense used to be this way before they sold out to cheap carbon and mail order. when I ride my Intense, the poors wave as they ride by on their Intense. But on my Pivot they just stop and stare. They think they're moving, but they're going no where. Because I've become what they can't be, and they wonder why there here not there, on a Pivot.
  • 1 0
 @JohanG: Do the SC and Ibis folks get that too...or is it more of a side glance?
  • 1 0
 @smartyiak: Ibis yes, SC no. All SC look the same. Its like eating the most expensive vanilla ice cream. Still boring.
  • 1 0
 I know the prior generation switchblade eventually got an AL frame option.

One thing I do like about Pivot vs SC and Yeti, is they don't spec a lower tier carbon frame on their lower cost builds, where your bike will always be a 1/2 pound heavier than the $7,000+ builds with the CC or torq frames.
  • 4 0
 Looks like Pivot..took the restrictor plate off to give the Red Dragon a little more juice..
  • 5 3
 Wait, what on earth is an “average saddle height for each frame”? Is Pivot just straight making up the effective seat angle numbers? How about just publishing the actual number?
  • 4 1
 Effective seattube angles are measured at stack height, most people will have their saddle higher up than that. With an offset seattube, using an average saddle height, the "effective" seattube angle actually gets slacker than measured at stack height.
Yeah, it's harder to compare, but actually more relevant imo.
  • 2 2
 @NickBosshard: Yeah but what is “average saddle height”? Pivot just made this up
  • 2 0
 @Linc: they run a demo fleet out of their headquarters. Super easy to measure the seat height of the bikes when they come back after the demo ride(s).
  • 5 2
 @DHhack: Cool - how about they publish this? How do we know they haven’t artificially set the height low to ensure they can advertise a steeper number? Seems suspicious that the angle on larger frames - where riders would probably have the seat higher than smaller sizes - gets a steeper number attributed.
  • 4 0
 @Linc: not sure why you're getting negged... Publish the number. It's simple and relevant. Some companies are starting too, but by and large the gaping holes in geometry charts are rediculous.
  • 2 0
 @Glenngineer: that’s assuming the end product is anything like the chart *cough* Ibis *cough*
  • 3 0
 Prices are getting nuts... And for what? Screw it buy a second hand bike and do it up, fit a angle set, offset bushes etc.. save yourself thousands.
  • 8 7
 I’ll keep reminding people that 157 rear spacing does absolutely nothing to increase tire clearance despite reviewers repeating this misleading marketing statement. Yes, combining it with a 56 mm chain line increases clearance, but several brands incl one just reviewed here use 52 with 157 spacing for various reasons.
  • 5 0
 According to the Pivot website this and Switchblade use a 56 mm chain line....
  • 1 0
 Great point. I had my first year on a 157 rear this year and it's virtually impossible to find wheels. Granted it's a Covid year but I had no trouble finding boost wheels. I also couldn't tell the difference.
  • 1 0
 @Super7: Most DH wheels are 157mm... there should be plenty around
  • 1 3
 Force 157 for "stiffness", then spec 28 spoke wheels. Cocalis is out of his mind.
  • 1 0
 @rojo-1: 157 trail and DH are different. DH has a way smaller cassette so the driver body is smaller. I think you can add spacers and use a 157 trail with a DH cassette but not the other way around. Please let me know if I've got this wrong. I'm new to 157. Thanks!
  • 1 0
 @Super7: Depends on the hub you're getting, most DH hubs have the same width freehub body as regular standard or boost hubs. This is mostly down to the cassettes which are made to fit standard with freehub bodies, even if they are narrower like the sram 7 speed cassettes.
  • 5 0
 duPont Registry is going to have to add a bike section soon.
  • 2 1
 My take on people always getting fired up on pricing: Brands price things out based on the kit you get, but also based on the fact it's a business that needs to make a profit to keep doing what it does. Everyone will have different costs of doing business and for some that may mean higher prices for their product that has a similar build spec to a competitor.
  • 3 2
 bike itself is a bit underwhelming, but probably rides great like the last one. the previous version definitely looks better, but I'm glad that at least neither of the colors are that awful Facebook/Pivot blue. However, this has got to be marketing 101 for future bike releases on what NOT to do marketing a bike. literally no one cares or is surprised about the details of this bike after their long, drawn out, poorly done "mysterious" marketing campaign, which they then undid by letting the bike out at EWS prior to release. so dumb.
  • 2 1
 "although there is a level of built-in adjustability that can be used to broaden its range of usable terrain."

Usable? It's a bike. It can be _used_ pretty much anywhere. Adjustments certainly might make it more "suitable" for a given terrain, but they're not going to make it "unusable" for anything.
  • 1 0
 So frame and fork manufacturers are ok with massive 1.8 headtubes and making crowns to match, but everyone, except Giant and Cannondale, thinks the top of the headset is just fine? That shit looks ridiculous with a straight 1.5 headtube and a little teeny steerer poking out the top. Especially with that fat 35mm bar on the other end of the stem.

The industry already makes a few silly concessions simply for looks (aforementioned 1.8 headtubes, internal cable routing, hidden seatpost clamps that just don't work well), but for some reason the few times that the steerer/stem interface was actually _functionally_ improved, everyone slagged it off. So stupid.
  • 8 3
 Looks like a Banshee
  • 1 0
 I do wonder what the difference is between Pivot's iteration of DW-Link and Banshee's KS2. Outwardly, it looks identical.
  • 2 2
 Naw, other than being a short-link four bar with vertical shock there are no similarities.
  • 1 0
 @Ttimer: Have a look at this and then a Banshee Titan. The link configuration is almost identical.
  • 2 0
 @boozed: I was replying to the original post. The bikes themselves look very different, even though they share a similar link layout.
  • 4 0
 So nice to see a 350 BB height. Functional !! Take notes other brands
  • 4 0
 Can this review be behind paywall ?
  • 1 0
 What i’m most curious about is how this new Pivot with its DW-link suspension will compare to the new crop of high-pivot enduro bikes through some serious gnarly terrain… Smile
  • 1 0
 Wondering if it's possible to combine DW & high pivot!
  • 2 0
 @haen: it will probably look like the design of the Canfield Jedi.
  • 1 1
 If it's a consumer 'fun' item and not healthcare and staple food items, builders can charge what ever they want and should get as much as they can.

I love Pivot rear suspension performance but rule the brand out due to overly short chain-stay lengths, Superboost & no frame only options.
  • 12 13
 Not sure why bike companies havent caught the memo to limit the brand name to just a head badge or something subtle...? Big brand name on the side of bikes is obnoxious. Fine for the pros but I dont want to do their advertising…
  • 4 2
 So this is the sort of money you now have to pay to get a bike with the same size wheels??
  • 1 0
 Let's hope pivot get takers because that's madness even high earners would question that pricing the specs no better than bikes 5k less
  • 3 0
 Are bike companies paying retail on parts to spec their bikes these days?
  • 3 1
 Price range: $6,099 - $13,099 USD

Can it get any better for a bike thief ?
  • 1 1
 a 2022 KTM 500 EXC-F cost $1300 less than the top build on this bike. yes different sport but the moto has a whole nother level of complexity to manufacture/develop. What is going on here?
  • 2 0
 Phoenix home prices are hottest in the US.
  • 5 0
 economies of scale.
  • 1 1
 I love Pivot! Wish they would make a proper Mixed wheel size switchblade but with this exact geometry. Pretty much what I’m looking for. DW link and a nice roomy tech clearing bottom bracket height.
  • 2 0
 You could just put it in the high setting and use the 17mm headset cup to get some clearance as long as you don't mind a higher stack.
  • 4 1
 Can't wait to only see these every 10 seconds on South mountain in PHX.
  • 2 0
 I remember when xc bikes were 12k with mechanical shifting and no live valve
  • 5 4
 When are we going to get over the cost of mountain bikes? Yes, they are expensive in the highest end, and yes there are cheaper options. It's getting old PB comments.
  • 2 1
 Words bad!! Me want video!! Seriously though, I'm at work and I can't be reading shit online. I'd rather listen to a video while I'm working. Thanks. Smile
  • 2 1
 Pivot really do need a frame only option, I'd like to own a Pivot but have stuck with Ibis and Yeti as they offer a frame only option.
  • 1 0
 they usually offer frameset about 6 months after release. i specifically asked for it because I rather use other parts. but i‘ve been told due to availability issues in covid times they propably won‘t be able to do framesets any time soon
  • 1 0
 Just to repeat what has already been said, this is ridiculous! Not looking good when that dope a$! GT released on the same day is $6000 for the top of the line model.
  • 3 1
 13k with crappy brakes. Give it up sram you can’t make good brakes that last more then a year
  • 2 0
 Meanwhile at Rocky Mountain:

"Who do these guys think they are? They can't charge that for a bike and expect sales!"
  • 1 0
 Effective STA looks to be about 75 based on the nose of the saddle in relationship to the BB. Makes me wonder if it wanders on climbs or if that even matters.
  • 1 0
 Effective STA is around 77 degrees, according to the geo charts. Do you mean *actual* STA?
  • 1 0
 @MtbSince84: "Effective STA Sales Numbers" vs "Actual Sales Numbers." ... Tough to say with my loose tooth... I will eventually go to the dentist and "enjoy" the actual 10-degree seattube angle.
  • 4 1
 daddy liiiiiiike
  • 7 5
 Not a high pivot in 2021?
Ew, Gross
  • 50 1
 It's a high priced Pivot... Same same right?
  • 1 0
 @Dangerous-daveo: At those prices, most will convince themselves that not buying it would have been a disaster.
  • 2 0
 $$$ Were getting taken for a ride.
  • 4 3
 Forget the price - minimum 468mm reach on a medium? So now I'm on a small frame? GTFO of here.
  • 1 0
 Of course the 1.5" headset gives reach some wiggle room **grumble** FINE... PIVOT **grumble**
  • 1 0
 Can't get past the spelling error in the second to last paragraph to complain about the price, I need help.
  • 2 0
 Frame design is a bit bland...would only consider it in Orange.
  • 2 0
 It's OK to like nice things.
  • 2 1
 Eddie needs to bankroll his epic parties & Bernie wants to move out of his Mums crib. So dont complain about the price!
  • 1 0
 No frame only option either?
  • 2 2
 I used to lust after the Firebird so much. Pretty disappointed with this generation.
  • 1 1
 Well at least this model shouldn’t ruin shocks after 90 days like the last one.
  • 2 2
 Or for a few more Thousand dollars, you could get TWO, 2021 Honda CRF250R for $7,999 each......
  • 1 0
 Nice integrated choad-collecter
  • 1 0
 Still waiting for the Pivot Grim Donut
  • 1 0
 13k? Not untill the come out with super, duper, duper..... duper boost?
  • 1 0
 buy bitcoin and then you can buy 10 of these
  • 2 3
 Pivot really trying to cement their dentist bike marketing schemes here with this one.
  • 3 2
 Meh
  • 6 9
 Pivot still doing great things right now. Fast forward a few years and they’ll be punching an even bigger hole in the market. Take note at their colors always being on point for two years now.
  • 1 0
 *inflation*
  • 1 3
 For once Pivot manages to make a bike with current geometry. But that price tag though. That must be a joke, right? Seems ridiculous enough anyways.
  • 1 0
 Just get the unno
  • 2 2
 looks like a session. im sorry it had to be done
  • 1 0
 BUY BITCOIN
  • 1 0
 dirty fiat
  • 4 5
 Looks like they have really pivoted in the right direction
  • 8 9
 Can’t wait to see the 40+ crowd out on these per usual
  • 14 2
 "I sold my Yeti that I've ridden 3 times for one of these babies and never looked back."

-Typical 40+ dude that rides a Pivot
  • 3 5
 @Almazing: Uhhh…. Cool…
  • 7 1
 @Almazing: missed your quotations first time around, makes more sense now lol
  • 15 6
 Age has nothing to do with it, yea there is a lot of pot bellied older rich folk riding expensive bikes just because they are at that stage in lufe where you can afford to...but there is also guys in their 40's that are stronger, faster and more skilled than guys in their 20s. The avearage Joe that never hit the gym struggles with 50-60kg on Bench some even less, there is a lot of guys in their 20s that fit that bill just as much as guys in their 40s, age is no excuse, you can still be fit, healthy and skilled well into your late 40s at level way beyond most people in their 20s... Coming from someone who is 32.
  • 4 9
flag timlikesbikes (Aug 10, 2021 at 5:55) (Below Threshold)
 @Danzzz88: wtf are you even talking about? lmao I'm saying the people I see on Pivots are 40+ year olds, I dont care about your skill level or how much you go to the gym lol Also not talking about finances, I'm 30 with a $15k Carbonjack
  • 9 5
 @timlikesbikes: so then what the hell is your point about 40+ being on these bikes.. you clearly made the point that some of us in our 30s can afford these bikes so that negates the money aspect, and you seem to be saying you don't care about skill or fitness bla bla bla...so then what exactly is your point in commenting that 40+ ride Pivots...you might aswell say grass is green or the sky is blue, if there is no underlying reason for your comment then are you just stating the obvious or what? Seemed like it was a dig at people in their 40s even though some of them may make better use of an expensive more capable bike than some younger folk.
  • 8 3
 @Danzzz88: I'm literally only saying it is a bike that seems to attract the hearts of 40+ year olds, thats it. Its a comment on the internet you're taking way too serious lmao check your blood pressure chief
  • 2 1
 @timlikesbikes: I'm 54 and can't imagine spending 12k on a bicycle....or even $6k
  • 2 1
 @jokermtb: cost- personal worth is subjective. I said that once… you’ll come around lol
  • 2 0
 @Danzzz88: agree! Didn't get into enduro racing until my 40s - it was a surprise to see that the Masters 40+ class was often one of the bigger classes and the top riders in the 40+ class (not me btw!) often beat out the younger class top riders.
  • 5 0
 Hey! Might sell both of my Ibis' to get one. Go to school, don't do drugs, and save your money.
  • 1 0
 @Danzzz88: yup. I’m 46 and nearing 30 years of riding. I keep fit and can climb and descend nearly as well as I’ve ever been able to. Not sure what all the huff is about over this bike but it checks a lot of boxes for me. Responsive climber, smooth yet poppy suspension layout, not overly slack, solid parts kit.
  • 1 1
 price is a piss take.
  • 1 2
 looks like a 2011 giant faith 1
  • 1 2
 im probably the only person on here with this bike so ask me
  • 1 3
 I'll take that GT over this anyday!
  • 5 8
 "Heal clearance" and no issues on the "climes"
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