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First Ride: Santa Cruz Heckler SL eMTB

Sep 11, 2023 at 12:20
by Mike Kazimer  
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Hot on the wheels of their new electric gravel bike (no, that's not a joke – check out the Skitch here) Santa Cruz have added a lightweight eMTB to their lineup. The Heckler SL is powered by Fazua's Ride 60 motor and a 430 Wh battery, a relatively light system that keeps the bike's weight in the low 40-pound range.

The frame has a much slimmer look than the full-powered Heckler, and from a distance it doesn't immediately stand out as an eMTB. All models roll on mixed wheels, with a 160mm fork and 150mm of rear travel. Santa Cruz bills it as being "great for quick escapes, and squeezing the most out of a ride."

Heckler SL Details

• Carbon frame
• Wheel size: Mixed
• 150mm travel, 160mm fork
• Fazua Ride 60 motor / 60 Nm torque, 430 Wh battery
• 64.0° or 64.3° head angle
• 444mm chainstay length (size L)
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL, XXL
• Claimed weight: 41.2 lb / 18.7 kg
• MSRP: $7,200 - $12,299 USD
santacruzbicycles.com


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Frame Details

Like most of Santa Cruz's carbon bikes, the Heckler SL is available with a C or CC level frame. The stiffness and strength of both frames are said to be the same, but the more expensive CC frames are lighter due to the use of a different grade of carbon. The Fazua Ride 60's display is integrated into the toptube, where it displays the ride mode and the battery level via a series of LED dots. Fazua's ring-style controller sits on the left side of the handlebar, and it's connected to the motor by a wire that runs through a port in the side of the head tube.

The charging port for the 430 Wh battery is located partway up the downtube, hidden under a small plastic flap. The battery itself isn't easily removable – the lack of a downtube hatch helps increase the frame stiffness and saves the weight of a latching mechanism.

There's plenty of room for a full size water bottle inside the front triangle (or possibly a range extending battery if rumors of Fazua offering one sometime next year ever come true). Other details include very well executed chainslap protection, downtube protection, and a teeny tiny fender to protect the shock.

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A small window in the shock tunnel helps with checking sag.
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Generous chainslap protection.

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Geometry

The Heckler is available in five sizes, from S to XXL, with reach numbers ranging from 432 – 523mm. The head angle measures 64- or 64.3-degrees depending on the position of the flip chip at the rear of the shock. The chainstays are 444mm on sizes M-L, and then bump up to 447mm on the XL and 451 on the XXL in order to help preserve the bike's balance. The seat angle hovers around 77-degrees depending on the size, steepening slightly for the larger sizes.

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Build Kits

Prices range from $7,299 to $12,999 USD. The $9,699 GX AXS that I spend time on comes with a RockShox Lyrik Select+ fork, Super Deluxe Select+ shock, Code Bronze brakes, and Reserve 30 alloy wheels. Mine had an AXS wireless dropper post, but the actual retail version will have a cable-actuated OneUp post.

All the models in the lineup have a Maxxis DHF / DHR II tire combo, with an EXO casing front and EXO+ casing rear. I get that the goal is to keep the weight down, but I would have liked to see a DoubleDown rear tire at the very least – we're still talking about a 40+ pound bike here, and a tougher casing tire would help provide more support and reduce the likelihood of flats.

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Eliot Jackson making the Heckler SL look good.


Ride Impressions

Climbing on the Heckler SL is a calm and quiet affair, especially in the lower two motor modes. The noise increases slightly with the highest level of assistance, but it's still pretty subdued. The maximum level of assistance is similar to the middle 'Trail' mode of a full-powered eMTB, which gives it a less frantic feeling on singletrack, and means there's less chance of inadvertently pedaling yourself off the trail. It also means that if you ride with a buddy on a full-power eMTB they'll be able to absolutely smoke you up the hill if they're so inclined - the power difference between the two emerging eMTB styles is significant.

On the descents, the Heckler SL delivers a very impressive level of grip, especially when it comes to maintaining traction on slippery, off camber sections of trail. It sticks to the ground incredibly well when necessary, but it's also a good jumper. It's noticeably easier to bunnyhop or pop off natural lips compared to a heavier, full-powered eMTB, and its composed nature in the air is reminiscent of how a DH bike feels. Compared to the Specialized Levo SL, the Heckler SL has a plusher, more stable feel; it manages to feel more downhill oriented than the Levo SL (in a good way), despite both bikes having the same amount of travel.

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The Ride 60 display indicates the motor mode and the battery level.
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The ring controller that's used to switch between modes can be finicky at times.

As far as the function of the Ride 60 system goes, the main gripe I have has to do with the ring controller. On paper it seems like a clever way to switch modes without taking up too much handlebar space, but in the real world it feels plasticy and cheap, and there were several occasions when it required more than one push to get it to switch modes. In addition, walk mode is accessed by pushing sideways on the remote, a position that's not as easy to maintain when you're also trying to get a bike up a ridiculously steep slope. I'd much rather have a two button remote, something closer to what Shimano, Specialized, or Bosch use on their systems.

The Ride 60 has three ride modes called Breeze, River, and Rocket, indicated by green, blue, or pink LEDs on the top tube. Most of my ride time was spend in the River and Rocket modes, since Breeze essentially feels like riding a regular bike, and if that was the experience I was looking for I wouldn't be riding a bike with a motor. There's also a 'Boost' function that provides additional power for up to 12 seconds, which can be accessed by holding the remote up for 2 seconds.

Santa Cruz claim that the Heckler's 430 Wh battery gives you the same range as a full-power bike with a 630 Wh battery, but I'd say that's not entirely accurate. Sure, that might be possible in the lowest power mode, but in the River and Rocket modes the range is less than a full-power option. The range will depend on rider weight and terrain, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,000 vertical feet of climbing, a distance of 20+ miles, and a ride time of around two hours ended up being a typical route for me, with just enough battery left to prevent the bike from turning into a heavy 'regular' bike. Again, there are a lot of factors at play here, and it's possible to stretch the range much further by using the Breeze mode.

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Who's It For?

Choosing between a mid-power eMTB and a full-power option really comes down to what sort of ride experience you're looking for. The handling of a bike like the Heckler SL feels much closer to a non-motorized mountain bike, and it could be the ticket for riders looking to squeeze more miles during a lunch or after-work ride. The smaller battery and lack of a range extender means that massive epics aren't really feasible, at least not without sticking the bike in the lowest power mode for the bulk of a ride, but for some riders that's not going to be an issue.

As much as I enjoyed the overall ride characteristics of the Heckler SL, especially while descending, I still prefer the increased speed and range of a full-power eMTB, weight penalty be damned. The Heckler SL is like an ice cream cone with one scoop – it's great while it lasts, but once it's gone some riders might be left wanting more. For riders that are into sundaes over single scoops, those who want to binge on all the trails, a full-power eMTB is going to be the way to go. Still, the Heckler SL would be a pretty sweet hot lap machine for riders who aren't sold on the bigger, heavier options but also want a motorized boost.




Author Info:
mikekazimer avatar

Member since Feb 1, 2009
1,760 articles

333 Comments
  • 404 6
 I've ordered mine. I'm having my Lambo wrapped in matching purple and I'll carry the bike on a Seasucker. I won't ride it but you can see it on Instagram.
  • 106 1
 Subscribed
  • 95 0
 So...you're NOT waiting for the new Yeti?

What are you, a poor?
  • 12 6
 $1500 less for an aluminium one and theyd have something
  • 29 0
 @BadgerBacker: he will replace the SC with the Yeti when it comes out in three weeks and then re-wrap the Lambo SUV to match that instead
  • 10 1
 @BadgerBacker: Turquoise G-Wagon obviously
  • 10 4
 @TommyNunchuck: G-Wagon is for people that can't afford a Urus or a Cullinan
  • 34 59
flag Dogl0rd FL (Sep 12, 2023 at 9:13) (Below Threshold)
 Funny how SC, a company that came from skateboarding makes the antithesis of what skateboarding is about. All street skateboards are roughly the same. It's not about the gear, it's about the tricks. And all skateboarders are about the skills the style and the tricks. Not only are MTBers all about the overpriced prestige gear, they don't even want to put in the work themselves. This is the lamest side of MTB Ffs
  • 29 8
 @Dogl0rd: idk if you really know much about the skate industry. Plenty of skateboarders rock $100 skate shoes, $40 t shirts with logos, expensive fitted jeans. The amount of skateboarders that imitate pros and buy expensive black skinny jeans and black and red striped sweatshirts is pretty high. There's much less to a plank of wood and some wheels on an axle compared to a bike. For every skateboarder that is immune to all of that, rocks $5 jeans and some random vans from Walmart, there's a dude on an MTB rocking jorts he cut out of some $5 jeans and those same vans.
  • 18 0
 lol wrap... dont have the coin to paint it? pheasant!
  • 6 0
 For roof-top appeal, make sure and upgrade to the carbon wheels at time of purchase. You don't want to be seen even once in the pub parking lot with alu wheels!!!
  • 3 1
 With hat color you sure will get heckled Smile
  • 10 0
 I'm glad I went straight to the comments.
  • 8 12
flag Dogl0rd FL (Sep 12, 2023 at 11:07) (Below Threshold)
 @pinkbert: hmm you're talking about clothing, let's talk about MTB clothing then...

There's a fairly hard limit on what a skateboard costs. For bikes the sky is the limit and suckers eat it up. That's their choice. It's just a case of second-hand embarrassment for the rest of us watching.

And once again they are paying for the bike to do the work so they don't have to...

Is anyone who is not sponsored by the company really going to risk sending it and scratching this thing?

It's quite a dynamic they are selling... like gold plated Crocs for the trail
  • 5 4
 @pinkbert: Dont feed the trolls
  • 23 0
 @pinkbert: black skinny jeans and black and red striped sweatshirts!??????? Yes, this guy has his finger on the pulse of the skate industry
  • 4 4
 @onawalk: says a troll
  • 11 0
 @clawhands: this was my exact thought, like what pro skater are they imitating? Dennis the menace?!
  • 8 1
 @clawhands: Skinny jeans are so 2018, only a boomer would be caught dead in those. If ya had your finger on the pulse you'd know all the cool kids are rocking $120 Polar Big Boys. Jeez.
  • 1 0
 @pinkbert: also living in a van
  • 7 0
 My 1995 Heckler was different that this one.
  • 10 1
 @DANKimball: Did you just say pheasant, rather than peasant?

My Irish father used to call people pheasants, brought me right back to my teenage years
  • 4 0
 @onawalk: sure did! and i will do it again too!
  • 1 0
 @chrischapman: heeeeell yeah! so stoked baggy fit is cool again. That’s my shit
  • 1 0
 Say what? I don’t get it. Have it but don’t ride it. What years your Lamborghini?
  • 177 5
 Looking beyond the typical e-bike hatred, it’s honestly nuts to see where we’ve ended up when just 4-5 years ago e-bikes were by and large hideous aluminum contraptions with externally mounted batteries, terrible geo and a super clunky ride experience. Sometimes you just gotta appreciate the progress even if it’s not the direction you hoped it would be in.
  • 54 32
 Been riding them since 2017 on a devinci ac xt 180mm travel aluminum and currently on a 23/24 E-Troy and although its is a bit better in a few areas, it was just as sick and capable back then. You may be getting it more now as you see more people on them, but for us who adopted it right away they did not suck. happy riding
  • 36 38
 @norona: Those downvotes, I mean WTF? Your comment is totally chill, yet the easily triggered are...triggered. The hell has happened to our society? Bunch of thin skinned slack jawed.... children.
  • 8 3
 @norona: absolutely agree. 5 years ago, yes you had to pick more carefully, and they looked a lot more agricultural, but the function was there.
I'm riding a 2020 Commencal Meta Power 29 and it absolutely rips. Modern geometry too
  • 1 12
flag Chuckolicious (Sep 12, 2023 at 10:27) (Below Threshold)
 Then they watch people like this, feel extra inadequate, and double down on the E-hate. Disclaimer, I still don't own one. youtu.be/pV0P5kpm-4A?si=WYAOg8lmD1a6AFpe
  • 4 4
 Huh? My 2018 decoy begs to differ lol…

If we are comparing to 10 years ago, sure. But honestly ebikes havent come very far in the last 4-5.
  • 12 12
 Yeah, you can hide your shame pretty effectively these days.
  • 6 14
flag Chuckolicious (Sep 12, 2023 at 11:50) (Below Threshold)
 @jayacheess: The real irony is with those using the word shame in their comments. And they totally have no idea. Here's to hoping they pull themselves out of it. Always cool to have another reasonable adult in the mix.
  • 23 7
 @jayacheess: meh, I don’t get this attitude anymore since I got an E. Sure there are total barneys out there on ebikes, but some of my national series racer friends spend almost as much time on their E as their trail bikes etc.

I’m nothing special and don’t race etc, but the E is really awesome for preparing for bike park season or the odd race i enter.

It’s also amazing for 6-7 lap dh epics with my good buddy on the weekend.

I used to be a bit embarrassed of the E too…but when i noticed anyone who would give me a weird look or make a comment was complete trash compared to me on a bike, it mostly just makes me laugh at them.

Never ran into someone faster than me who talks shit. It’s always the gapers.
  • 6 4
 @Chuckolicious: yeah it just really shows how much they are having at life, oh well, I will just keep having fun, riding and playing with a big smile on my face!
  • 10 14
flag norona (Sep 12, 2023 at 12:16) (Below Threshold)
 @nvranka: it is funny how you can be a fast rider but as soon as you pass someone they think, oh e-mtb, basically you are relegated to being the slowest rider behind every regular bike rider, its comical. I started riding them in 2017 and they are better in every way, have not ridden a regular bike since. Over 42,000 km and the smiles are bigger every ride.
  • 5 1
 Well seeing that they still sell bikes without motors we are still going in the right direction.
  • 12 4
 @nvranka: had 5 ebike groups ride by us yesterday. 2 of them apologized after we moved over saying 'sorry, ebikes!' , and I had to yell back, 'all good, no judgement here!'.

I think there's still an inbuilt sense of shame about not using your own power to get to the top while other people still are.
  • 10 5
 "direction you hoped" - dude, come back to this comment when you are 50 and tell me you are not riding e-bike
  • 2 2
 @jayacheess: so, you really are judging, then?
  • 3 1
 @nvranka: ahh yes, the 2018 decoy that totally exists. That bike definitely didn’t debut almost halfway through 2019…
  • 18 8
 : @valrock: Ageism has nothing to do with it. Everyone I ride with is 50-65 and we drink beer and smoke pot and laugh at Ebikes.and drive jalopies.I don't mind Eebs, I just respect the riders a little less. Just facts.
  • 2 1
 @BermJunky: nope, don't really care.
  • 9 11
 @valrock: I am 52, on an e-bike, still in the park, I just don’t ride the lift, I peddle and beat the people on the lift up, and a lot of the time down as well.
E-bikes ar rad!
  • 2 2
 @Daco: What do you peddle?
  • 1 0
 Yeah agree it's a good looking machine. But an SL is like Not Enough Crack, you may as well get a good looking real bike and a cheap eeb and still have change for more than enough crack.
  • 8 11
 @Daco: so you chew up the trail with your 50lb ebike at the bike park but you don’t contribute financially to the maintenance of the trails? According to this information, you’re a dick.
  • 2 1
 @mick06: Why do I see Greta and HOW DARE YOU when I read your comment?
  • 2 1
 @mick06:

Does an e-rider who weighs less than me tear up the trails any more than I do on my analog? If Daco is climbing whilst the park is operating, he's probably just climbing service roads so not tearing up any singletrack.

For sure it's another rider blasting down the trails though, and the park should charge every rider if they have an issue with "poaching".
  • 8 1
 @mick06: I get an enduro pass, but only because my kids get uncomfortable seeing their dad get chased by a lifty on a quad.
Your concern for resort owners is very virtuous tho.

The funny thing is I get the same comments about my e-bike as I did about my Santa Cruz super 8. That’s cheating, you’re ruining our sport, ect ect.
Fact is bikes are fun! Whatever gets you out is a win!
  • 1 2
 @Daco: And @mick06 will now go silent and disappear into the ether. Rather than be a man and apologize. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
  • 1 0
 @suspended-flesh: I don't belive you
  • 1 0
 @valrock: That's fine. Most of us also still race DH, DS and Enduro. We're out here.......
  • 3 1
 @Chuckolicious: Im not sure why you were poppin’ off to pictures of Greta in your mothers basement while you read my comment? Only you can answer that one.
  • 2 1
 @Daco: It’s not the resort owners I care about. Your kids are smart - listen to your kids more.

And gretafapper: lol apologize for?? You’re a bit sensitive.
  • 2 2
 @mick06: LOL, just as expected. Never change!
  • 110 8
 Maybe we should start to appreciate that an ice cream cone with one scoop is better than no ice cream.
  • 55 7
 That comment was not for you, he's talking to Americans.
  • 105 40
 @LemonadeMoney: half of Americans? The other half can’t read
  • 31 1
 If by no scoops you mean a normal bike then go shove your mr whippy up your charging port
  • 151 2
 I see a lot of people out on e-bikes who really should cut back on the scoops
  • 78 3
 @LemonadeMoney: The scoop analogy doesn't make sense anyway... We train bald eagles to hunt for ice cream and deliver it in the back of a lifted 4x4. Yes, the eagle drives.
  • 9 0
 "I don’t like half a scoop half as well as I should like; and I like less than half a scoop half as well as I deserve” - bilbo baggins
  • 14 2
 @Monkeyass: nuh uh my mama said i read amazing!!!!!!!!!!
  • 3 0
 @mattg95: That's funny, also sounds like Bob Dylan lyrics.
  • 6 4
 @LemonadeMoney: ice cream is soooo 20th century. now we only eat fat free, sugar free, gluten free, non-gmo, ethically sourced spiced chai soy and almond milk frozen yogurt substitute
  • 3 0
 @Monkeyass: erudite take, Mr. Monkeyass!
  • 2 1
 @Mtbdialed: one does ones best Wink
  • 7 0
 @twonsarelli: stop the violence against almonds and chai
  • 2 0
 @salespunk: and Celiacs
  • 12 3
 @twonsarelli: you have no idea how taxing it is to have to be me, eating 2x the meat just to make up for what a vegan doesn't eat. lazy a*sholes....
  • 2 0
 @Monkeyass: I'm having trouble comprehending that comment. Any chance you could wrap it into a podcast?
  • 3 1
 the ice cream is what you earn for actually pedalling yourself entirely.
  • 1 0
 I always just get one scoop.
  • 70 5
 Megatower was made thick so this would look skinny.
  • 27 2
 You know this is true. I’ve had three people ask me how I liked me e-bike and one asked to trade on a long climb. (Homie my HR is 145 and I’ve sweat pouring down my face, does this look like an e-bike ride?).

I like my chonky boy looks, but it was 100% to start normalizing the look of the e-bikes, and this one you can barely see the motor behind the cranks. They’re getting sneaky sneaky.
  • 5 1
 Thats what she said........
  • 13 11
 SC aesthetics peaked in 2019 with the top shock 5010 and 27.5 Bronson.
  • 3 11
flag ScandiumRider (Sep 13, 2023 at 15:01) (Below Threshold)
 @Starsky686: lol, spoken like someone who's never ridden an ebike. you assume it's impossible to get your HR up and get sweaty on an ebike. Also 145 is like tempo riding, you can probably push it harder...
  • 6 2
 @ScandiumRider: spoken like a true stereotype of the pinkbike commenter. Take you self esteem issues with riding an e-bike and the air of false superiority elsewhere.

I wasn’t denigrating e-bikes, that’s your own insecurities, or professing that 145bpm was in the pursuit of some meaningless Strava KOM. I was literally recalling a personal incident.

So move along with your insufferable compensating comment.
  • 1 7
flag ScandiumRider (Sep 14, 2023 at 11:53) (Below Threshold)
 @Starsky686: I enjoy riding either my non-ebike or my ebike, I have no self-esteem issues. Seems like you do though since you get defensive when people ask you if you ride an ebike? Maybe take it as a compliment if you're riding so fast people assume you're on an ebike!
  • 3 0
 @ScandiumRider: my conversation with someone who wasn’t you was about aesthetics. People think the Megatower is an e-bike. Don’t turn tail on your comments that my pace apparently wasn’t up to your tempo (?) standards. If you weren’t insecure you wouldn’t see slights against e-bikes im comments that didn’t have the,
  • 4 1
 @ScandiumRider: “non-ebike?!” Did you make that up yourself?
  • 2 4
 @Starsky686: You keep banging on about insecurities, and stereotypical Pinkbike commenters, yet you're the one complaining about your bike looking like an ebike on an ebike article and then getting defensive about it when other people in the comments section interact with you? lol.

@EricHarger: Would you prefer "acoustic bike"?
  • 2 0
 @ScandiumRider:

Where did I complain about the look of my bike? It looks great. Maybe it’s your reading comprehension that results in your comments being so insufferable.
  • 58 5
 £13,000 Santa Cruz lightweight Ebike.... this is going to be carnage in here !
  • 17 2
 can buy a lot of popcorn for that!
  • 10 1
 But look at the specs vs other bikes with the 60. It’s actually better lol
  • 12 0
 That's alright, was finding the spec SL bikes for up to 44% off lol, makes them good value at that point.

Personally though a non removable battery is a killer for me, unless you have a heated room to keep your bike and charge it you will risk damaging the battery in the winter
  • 2 0
 It’s intentional: leaves just enough $ for one scoop!
  • 12 1
 pricing aside(which does not affect me, as it could have been 8k or 13k, I still couldn't afford it), it is spot on;just the right geo, just the right susp feel(judge by what all the tester wrote on za interwebz), I like the way the lyrik feels, I like the purple and the matt silver gray colors, perfect amount of weight, keeping close to the real ethos of mtb-ing(which full fat ebikes don't do as they are not act and react on the trails in the same way a normal bike does)... so, it is a win all around from my perspective; too bad I cannot afford it.
  • 8 1
 Carnage in the Pinkbike comments, or carnage in your house when the wife sees the credit card bill?
  • 14 3
 I’ll take four Orbea Rises (on sale) instead please.
  • 4 0
 @shredddr: the best part of the Rise is that in Large or XL, you can run a 216x65 shock with double offset bushings and its a 160mm bike all of a sudden. I think the BB comes up 6mm in this setup with a 160 fork.

I am running mine 160/160, Fox36, Ohlins Coil and DD tires. 41lbs. fantastic eDuro setup!
  • 1 0
 the shocking this is: it's just not shocking anymore
  • 2 0
 @Mtbdialed: I bought a new last year model for 30% off during the winter and did the same thing (Ohlins included), except I switch between MX and full 29 depending on where I ride. It's a lot more fun than I could've imagined.
  • 1 0
 @Mtbdialed: plus you can unlock the motor to 85nm, throw on the range extender and you have a full power 700+wh bike around 20kg.
  • 1 1
 @Mtbdialed: Man you are dialed into bikes. Set me up with a Downhill MX wheels aluminum frame reach 500-520.
Not the Maiden, not the V10, not the TR11 maybe the XXL TUES but it has pressfit BB
  • 1 1
 @calarco68: Mondraker Summum. feel free to slide into my DM's. Big Grin
  • 2 0
 @thebradjohns: yep, although I have resisted doing that as I so seldom reach for Boost mode, and when I do, it's so steep that more power isn't the issue traction is.
  • 2 0
 @Mtbdialed: hell yea. I’m just getting started on this myself. I’m actually surprised how good the bike is in a stock configuration.
  • 1 0
 @shredddr: that’s a hell of a sale.
  • 59 10
 Presumably the trend to making these e-bikes look like normal bikes is to help the owner hide their embarrassment of owning one.
  • 6 2
 I don’t mind the looks, it’s the sound that’s kinda embarrassing and annoying, especially when riding with people on regular bikes. The Fazua is pretty quiet tho. Bosch and Shimano are pretty loud
  • 1 14
flag Chuckolicious (Sep 12, 2023 at 10:26) (Below Threshold)
 Yea, slick. Ride with these guys then come back and tell us how embarrassed you feel. youtu.be/pV0P5kpm-4A?si=WYAOg8lmD1a6AFpe
  • 8 4
 @Chuckolicious: pretty average looking riding by our standards.
  • 4 6
 @jayacheess: Oki dokee. Gotta tell yourself something to get through the day I guess?
  • 6 1
 @Chuckolicious: just the truth, dude. We do have a pretty deep riding culture here in BC though.
  • 4 10
flag Chuckolicious (Sep 12, 2023 at 11:51) (Below Threshold)
 @jayacheess: Keep em coming, that self soothing thing can work.
  • 2 0
 It's to cut down the cat calls and confrontations when they are riding on non-ebike trails.
  • 47 5
 Half power Ebike. It's like kissing your sister
  • 187 2
 Great fun unless someone sees you?
  • 7 67
flag BenPea (Sep 12, 2023 at 2:48) (Below Threshold)
 @LemonadeMoney: not only did you type that on the internet, 7 people have upvoted you. JFC.
  • 6 2
 @BenPea: it’s upvoted because it’s Fing hilarious.
  • 3 3
 @LemonadeMoney: no that's fat girls and mopeds.....
  • 3 0
 Do i want to know what the equivalent to a full power Ebike is?
  • 3 0
 @Freddye: it’s pitching a tent in math class and the teacher wants you to come to the board and solve a problem.
  • 5 0
 @Freddye: Like screwing your cousin? A lot more exciting, but you need serious protection.

I'll see myself out
  • 25 1
 Main issue being we have near 100% failure rate for Fazua Ride 50 battery systems at our business, most are dealt with efficiently by Fazua who send out new parts from Germany, but it is a lot of electronic waste, and long down times for the customer. I can't see how Fazua/Porsche can sustain the current warranty replacement volume. I do hope the Ride 60 is somewhat improved!
  • 6 1
 Because they’re super cheap and if you think how much they charge for them they’re still making money if they warranty them two or three times. They’re effectively selling motors out of £100 cordless screwdriver for thousands.
  • 5 0
 That’s why SC charge so much. Those warranty replacements have to factored in
  • 5 0
 I just had my Ride 60 replaced after 4 months of consistent riding....
  • 5 1
 Agreed. The Fauza is basically a throw away motor. Good luck with trying to get a replacement when it fails.
  • 3 0
 @Swangarten: which bike manufacturer and how painful/painless was the warranty process? What part of the Fazua system failed for you?
  • 7 0
 @farkinoath: I have a Pivot Shuttle SL and Fazua took care of it really quickly with little to no pain on my side other than being down a bike for a week. They were great about the replacement. My motor started making horrible noises and had a chunky on/off assist. I took a video in the bike stand, emailed it with my serial number and they got back to me straight away. It was one of the easiest warranties that I've ever done
  • 3 0
 @bedell99: I had mine in hand within a week
  • 7 1
 If some of the EMTBForum posts about the Transition Relay are an indication, the Ride 60 is pretty unreliable as well. I really think Orbea hit the mark with the Rise having a Shimano EP8 that's detuned to 60nm. Sure it's 1lb heavier, but that's worth it for a motor that's much less likely to die, and easier to warranty if it does. he Relay would be my next bike if it had a tried and true (and raced at the highest level) Shimano or Bosch motor.
  • 2 0
 @succulentsausage: I don't have personal experience, but I've read plenty of less than great things about the ep8 as well. Most eeb folks seem to be leaning towards the Bosch these days. Unfortunately had to warranty my first gen levo sl motor twice as well. But as with what people are suggesting with Fauza it was a relatively painless process. With electric motors being so ubiquitous in life in general these days it's a little surprising the issues ebikes seem to be having. Of course you rarely hear from the people who don't have issues I suppose.
  • 32 8
 I’ve peered into my crystal ball and witnessed bald white guys “commuting” to the trailhead in 185k sprinter vans built by someone else that they’ve never spent one night in unloading their 14k e bike, only to be grumbling under their breath about the 13 year old kids doing wheelies up the trail on their Sur Rons.

Welcome to the not so distant future…
  • 17 3
 No one asked for your kink
  • 7 0
 Does that mean that MTBR is actually ahead of its time?
  • 29 7
 That purple one is the best looking e-bike ever!
  • 27 2
 To be fair you would never know that was an e-bike unless someone told you
  • 5 0
 @tomo12377: Yeah, that's the amazing/ awful part. I need to get over my judgmental assumptions on e-bikes for young, healthy people with lots of money and little willingness to pedal hard. Who am I to judge the self-righteousness of suffering on climbs? I have no money to buy a new bike anyway, and if I did, it would be a Transition Spur. Here's hoping a new Spur comes out and they blow out the old ones on sale....probably not going to happen.
  • 3 1
 @dcaf: Pedaling is for suckers
  • 1 0
 @dcaf: I like your thinking esp on the Spur
  • 8 3
 @dcaf: they are blowing out the spurs currently. If you want one then buy one and you can shake your fists at all the young whippersnappers zooming past you on their e-bikes. I ride my regular bike more than my ebike and it still amazes me the people that feel entitled to say something to me when I’m riding my ebike. Mind your business and stay out of mine.
  • 2 0
 @Bm1117: who's blowing out spurs??? gimme a link!
  • 2 0
 @owl-X: I think he meant to say blowing out spurts
  • 1 0
 @Emailsucks98: no I'm pretty sure it's Transition Bikes Spur model, a 120mm travel bike with big bike angles. www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_Spur.cfm check it out pretty cool
  • 1 0
 @dcaf : Spurs are listed on Transition's website as a massive discount right now.

@owl-X
  • 35 14
 Friendly reminder to the people who price these things: a YZ250F retails for $8600
  • 21 0
 And doesn't even come with a GX drivetrain.
  • 4 1
 Yes but how much is it after you put an A-kit on it?
  • 27 0
 Another friendly reminder for people who price these things: A Thor 5-piece bespoke kitchen appliance set retails for about $8500
  • 8 0
 @j-p-i: A what now??
  • 9 0
 @jomacba: A Thor 5-piece bespoke kitchen appliance set. Gas range, fridge, etc. It's pricey for sure, but you get a good quality product I think
  • 4 0
 @j-p-i: I learned something today
  • 5 7
 Friendly reminder you will have $30k sunk into that to be the MTB equivalent of a XO1 bike.
  • 7 2
 And you can buy an entry level airplane for the price of a new car... Doesnt mean I want to buy an airplane. Yamaha is like one of the biggest companies in the world with unlimited resources, in an industry with over a hundred years of advancements. Mountain bikes are a niche market, and relatively new comparatively. I could buy a cheap, competitive yamaha, I could also buy a couple high end tennis rackets, or a new Playstation, for cheaper than a nice mountain bike. But I have no interest in any of those sports so its a silly comparison. I have zero interest in 12K mountain bikes, or ebikes in general, but I just dont think its a fair comparison either way.
  • 1 1
 @jackfunk: Amen. It's comedic reading the moto to emtb comparison posts at this point Smile
  • 1 2
 @j-p-i: mostly because a production motocross bike is really the equivalent of a GX build base model. These top spec Emtbs would be more along the lines of buying a factory bike, which would go for closer to 40-50 grand US.
  • 2 1
 @jomacba: Hmm, my off-the-shelf KTM woods 2-stroke came factory equipped with all CNC bits, high end wheels, fully adjustable suspension, Brembo brakes, Brembo hydraulic clutch and is super light all for what is a steal of a price compared to essentially any similarly priced EMTB. Bicycles are just a ripoff. I mean, I could grab a used WR250R for $5,000 and literally ride it from South America to Alaska. That said, I also own a 2023 Ripmo so screw it. Smile
  • 2 0
 @sfr4dr: So here's the thing, your factory equipped is an upgraded version of the standard production model. Generally this comes at an additional price.
Honda has their works edition, kawasaki has their special race edition, KTM has their mid season redbull factory edition, Husqvarna has the Rockstar... Gas Gas etc, the list goes on. These motorcycles come equipped with a few upgrades primarily for performance. Your brembo setup is likely not the billet master and caliper works setup, all CNC parts are likely not forged, and your suspension (which is the major aftermarket cost) is not an A-kit.
When I mean Factory, I legitimately mean top of the line. Even the top production motorcycles don't come equipped with top of the line.
The range for suspension setups based on riding style and ability is much broader for a motorcycle than a mountainbike, as they are generally producing a few models that hit a broad spectrum. MTB is much more specific. You won't find a FOX 40 on every mountain bike, that would be insane, yet you would find WP uses pretty much the same variation with some changes in valving across the board. The same goes for KYB and Showa. Bikes all come in one size, this also streamlines production and cuts manufacturing costs. I'm sorry, but while the two industries share alot of simmilarities, they are inherently much different. Everybody is on the outside looking in, thinking "two wheels and a motor=same". Not even close. As a matter of fact, why don't we start comparing them to the automotive industry, price point isn't far off that either.
At the end of the day, this industry is full of businesses that are looking to make a profit.
I can tell you first hand, building a top spec motorcycle is hands down way more expensive than building a top spec mountainbike. Like I said, not the same.
  • 21 0
 Santa Cruz Barney
  • 4 0
 Santa Cruz Heckled.
  • 2 0
 Heckle-e.
  • 3 0
 Missed opportunity….
Santa Cruz Barn-Ey
  • 14 0
 Odd for this review to make the apples-to-oranges comparison of the Heckler SL to full power bikes. And no mention of the significant fact that it's got nearly 30% more battery capacity than Fuel EXE, Levo SL, and most other SL models while maintaining a similar or lighter weight?
  • 1 2
 He actually compared it to the Levo more specifically when describing the downhill performance. The comments about the lack of power are under the 'Who is it for' part of the article, so in the context of that they are not apples to oranges opinions. He's simply criticizing the whole genre of lightweight e bikes, what's wrong with that?

This genre of lightweight e bikes should actually be called wEak bikes. It feels like companies are making them simply to pacify the e bike haters and the complete lack of climbing speed defeats the whole purpose of an e bike when it comes to doing fast downhill loops.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I dunno. I don't own one yet, but ride the Levo SL when I'm in CA to ride as I can get one. Super fun, but still virtually a regular bike. Full fat are just too heavy for my taste, feel like runaway schoolbus.
  • 13 0
 In that first photo at the top, it doesn't even look like an e-bike, it would just blend right in with the rest of the SC range! Still not planning on selling a kidney to try one though!
  • 10 31
flag zonoskar (Sep 12, 2023 at 2:14) (Below Threshold)
 Indeed, it's looks just a regular ugly Santa Cruz.
  • 2 0
 are ebikes becoming super popular and common in the UK? i'd say i do about 60-70% of my rides with ebikers these days. most of them still have muscle bikes but some do not. despite the ubiquity of ebikes on the trails, it seems like every time we pass someone or another group of riders, there is some cheeky comment made, or at least skeptical looks at the bottom bracket areas of everyones bikes
  • 3 0
 @twonsarelli: ebikes are definitely becoming more popular here, but amongst my riding groups, they are just a small percentage. I've got nothing against them myself, I'll have one in the future, most likely to help me maximise my available time to get up the hills quicker and do more of the fun downhill stuff in the limited time I have to ride.
  • 1 0
 @twonsarelli: South Wales valleys here, ebike takeover complete
  • 2 0
 @jjhobbs: Not quite. ;-)
  • 2 0
 @commental: haha ,only joshing...but increase is huge!
  • 17 7
 I've ridden the Transition Relay with the Fazua motor and it is an excellent eBike. There is plenty of power to keep up with any full power eBike riders going up single track. The only place you'd be at a deficit would be on smooth fire roads, but riding single track up is more interesting anyway. The Relay is the winner for me though for a few of reasons. The ability to easily remove the battery is a huge plus as the Relay becomes a bike you can actually pedal without the battery. Additionally, you can carry an extra battery with these for big rides as they are not as cumbersome as a full power battery. This is not practical with the Heckler. Second, Transition's geometry is dialed and the Relay while notably more aggressive than the new Heckler can still roll whatever mild stuff you wish. However, that aggressiveness allows it more freedom to get into nasty situations or bike park shenanigans. Lastly, you can get into an alloy version for some decent cost savings.
  • 6 4
 Sorry dude when you ride up steep tech, there is no way a 45-60 newton power bike is keeping up to us on 85 neuton power, you dont have the torque up steep blue and black trails.
  • 2 0
 I took a test ride on the Relay and it was going great until the battery fell out and rolled down the side of a rock slab after hitting a drop. It was feeling pretty good otherwise but I wouldn't have wanted that to happen in the middle of a longer ride and lose it off the side of the trail
  • 2 1
 @norona:Who cares hahaha. The downhill part is all tbag matters and full fats suck in comparison end of
  • 1 0
 @norona: so would the Powerplay at 108NM be in a league of it’s own above full power bikes?
  • 13 0
 I wonder at what point a Santa Cruz will cost more than a Tesla
  • 13 6
 Doesn't matter. There will be somebody defending it with the race ready bicycle vs stock motorbike argument.
  • 5 2
 @jollyXroger: hahahahaha, thanks for that. Yep, the same age old excuse.
At least this one's a motorcycle anyway!
  • 3 1
 @jollyXroger: you forgot to mention the part about economies of scale and how poor bike companies can't afford to price things affordably. oh wait, that's actually a farce and they sell way more emtbs than motocross bikes could even dream of. carry on.
  • 17 4
 "Who's it for?". I think we all know the answer....
  • 6 4
 Looks like the perfect bike for your average filthy rich city planner.
  • 19 0
 @Glisseur: filthy rich city planner? Since when a public officer is a well paying bike?
  • 2 0
 Danny Mac, that's who!
  • 3 6
 Cheaters!
  • 17 7
 4000ft of climbing.... so literally countless local rides here (and almost any place in bc) would leave you with a dead battery. Leaves the "who's it for" question a bit unanswered for me.
  • 8 2
 The F60 with aggressive tires & 184# rider can climb 4000' in Rocket mode (100% to 10%) or 6000' in River mode (middle setting).

For my needs, that is more than enough.
  • 16 12
 It’s for obese people
  • 5 2
 Typical local ride is over 4000ft? Wow that’s wild. Full power e bikes must be very nice up there
  • 4 4
 Yeah really is a shame to see some companies clinging to the non-removable battery thing. Having a spare battery in the truck for self shuttle laps is the way to go. Lower weight + double your ride time. There's no way having a non-removable battery saves more than 1lb, but then again I think all of these SL ebikes are just a headfake to get the weight weenies interested in eebs. My prediction is in 5-8 years there will only be ebikes and not SL ebikes vs full fat ebikes.
  • 3 0
 @succulentsausage: Having a giant hole in the downtube for the removable battery decreases stiffness quite a bit
  • 3 7
flag norona (Sep 12, 2023 at 12:25) (Below Threshold)
 I ride 3500-4000 every day in squamish its more than enough, I would never buy a low power bike, you can climb the super tech steep ups. Sorry your not doing 4000 a day , every day on a regular bike, even when I was racing there is no way you could do that kind of mileage as you would cook yourself. Its easy to brag about your biggest week on a bike and say you do it all the time. I can ride 4000 vert in 1 hr 15-25 min of tech up climbing and sick downs. And for places like brohm Ridge Al capone and flying whales. and the Gondi trails I can ride from home head up jacks to chesire ride up and ride up to top of brohm and all the way home having an extra battery. Do the same on the gondi.
  • 10 1
 it's for the people that gave up on developing MTB fitness because they couldn't get beyond the pain and suffering aspect of pedaling your damn self.
  • 2 1
 @norona: I've ridden from home to AC with a 320w battery. I know people who ride from where we live to up there with no battery at all. None of this matters.
  • 1 2
 Ha Ha
  • 12 3
 I was a purist, full of hate for ebikes... until I tried one. I still ride a regular bike but the ability to get out in the evening, do a full ride and be home for dinner in 90 mins has increased the amount of time riding in a week 4-5x. The fact you can get out and shuttle your favourite trails many more times, improves skills as well. And if you are pushing hard its still a good workout. Frankly I wish Id bought one a few years ago, its a great (albeit expensive) training aid and a lot of fun. Most people will realise this eventually. The remaining luddites will go off to join their bros riding 26 inch bike and judging.

Owning a full fat ebike, I simplly dont get lightweight e-bikes. Part of the fun is the old school DH vibe of how the bike rides downhill and powering up the climbs for another run. IMO the EMTB mode on the bosch combined with the almost instant engagement is far superior for linking bits of trail together than other motors.

There you are, Im out the closet. If you know, you know.
  • 13 0
 "Owning a full fat ebike, I simplly dont get lightweight e-bikes. Part of the fun is the old school DH vibe of how the bike rides downhill and powering up the climbs for another run"

As a FF Kenevo owner I can say without a doubt I'd rather have a Kenevo SL. To me my Kenevo is too much of a tank and it just plows through everything. I want a lighter more playful bike and I think most ppl that like the SL eBikes are ppl that honestly would rather ride a normal bike 65% of the time, but ride an SL eBike to allow them to ride a bit more. To me, I'd rather ride a few less downhills, but have more fun on the actual downhills than ride more downhills, but have less fun on them. Quality over quantity I guess is the point I'm trying to make.
  • 5 0
 @ohbmxer: You got it. After owning a full-fat Norco, I realized I wanted the least additional weight possible but enough assist to double my ride lengths & frequency, and not have to push up the steepest climbs.

Climbs that were pushing/walking speed on my meat bike are 4-5mph on my Trek Fuel, and were 8-9mph on my previous Norco Sight VLT. Correspondingly the effort went from 100% to 50% and 5%. These lightweights are sweet, you still get a workout but they descend & ride tech like a meat bike. My Norco felt like a snowmobile in comparison.
  • 11 0
 Breeze,River and Rocket? Gross
  • 9 0
 Pink rocket, too
  • 5 0
 Light ebikes now weight like a pro enduro standard bike!

Really interesting, frame and suspension design seems not affected by battery and new engines, there are no more limits.

And this with old concept batteries, i'd like to see 5y from now 1500wh lbatteries weight half the actual

Technology is running so fast. I'm in.

With my ebike i can push myself over 160bpm with cardio... pedaling tracks where a standard bike stops, on the alps this is like have no limits and riding without cablecabs.

It's a different sport? Who cares?
  • 5 1
 I’ve got a Pivot Shuttle SL with the Fazua Ride 60 system. I initially had the same issues with the ring control that you mentioned, but pretty quickly got used to it. It has become very easy to change modes with a thumb flick, and I’ve gotten used to engaging the walk mode with an inward and upward push. I only wish the walk mode was a little faster, as I can generally outwalk the speed of the bike uphill, but that’s a minor concern. The ring does feel flimsy, but I’ve no reliability issues with it so far.
  • 1 0
 @bde1024: when would you walk an ebike? I tried one on a14% hill and it felt like I was on a flat, paved bike path.
  • 6 1
 This bike has "Daddy's Hour of Power" written all over it. That's about what I get with three kids, an hour to escape. Or as they say, squeeze the most out of every ride... Kudos to the Santa Cruz team, well done.
  • 7 1
 Awww, it doesn't have headset cable routing Frown Was really hoping to have to service the headset once a week...
  • 1 0
 true goals!
  • 4 0
 The cheesy, plasticy feel and inconsistent operation of the Fazua ring controller is glaring and a real let down. $17k CAD bikes and the mode selector feels like something off wish.com
  • 4 1
 So much griping about cost. This bike isn't for everyone, so chill. Santa Cruz (and Yeti and others) as a brand isn't for everyone, but for fans and people who can afford it these bikes are pretty damn cool. I get annoyed being passed by so many e-bikes on the climbs here in Santa Cruz, but then we all spread out on the descents so it's fine. It's a good ego check, but then I just feel extra proud of my legs for pushing. I'll eventually get an e-bike, but that's years out. YEARS. And at that point bikes like this will be very appealing. I love the color.
  • 5 1
 The battery must be removable. I'm pretty confident they didn't form the frame around the battery so it must have been installed and therefore can be uninstalled.
  • 1 0
 Why throw away just the battery when you can toss the whole bike, right Santa Cruz?
  • 3 0
 It is removable. It is just not removable in the sense of changing the batteries out between laps in the car park. In a workshop it can be removed / replaced.
  • 4 0
 If I just can find a way to add 6 more lbs to my V4 Santa Cruz Bronson I can have my own 40lb SC without having to pay for all of that E-assist nonsense.
  • 4 0
 Although I love the way the frames look, i will never buy a Santa Cruz do to the low tier components on expensive frames that will lose their value in one ride.
  • 8 1
 They always put NX and Guide brakes on the lowest trim which sucks. Shimano Deore would be much better but looks like Santa Cruz has a deal with SRAM
  • 4 0
 4000ft? You’d be stranded on a climb in the middle of Rockies
here in Alberta with that.
  • 2 0
 Does anyone know if it’s possible to get the fazes motor without the stupid ring drive. I haven’t read one positive review of it and there is no way to replace it with something that doesn’t suck.
  • 2 0
 I like my Fazua motor controller. Transition upgraded but I can tell no difference.

My one complaint is I like to work on my bikes flipped upside down and the bike will rest right on the controller.

Now, you've read 1 positive review.

Also, I even like the 5 led light thing even though it's super basic. With a percent gauge I check it constantly but with the leds only going in 20% increments, I end up only noticing it 1x/ hour or so. I wish they had a small button that shut off the lights to the 5 led panel so I could go totally stealth.
  • 1 0
 It's pretty sad to observe that PB / Outside clearly have deployed bots in their comment sections for engagement clicks to boost the value of the site. Poor form.

Oh yea, it's still illegal to not let visitors opt-out of cookies even though you've made the banner smaller.Theres still no immediate way to opt-out without having to go into out settings. Which means when we do "Accept" it temporarily just to get the damned modal off our screens, you immediately scrape all of our cookie data without our consent.
  • 1 0
 I had a pivot shuttle sl with the same fazua system. sold it after all three (thinnest possible) wires ripped from that dinky little mode-switcher, rendering it inoperable. also had the battery fail after the second ride and had to be replaced under warranty. a 3 month process.
  • 1 0
 I would like to know how quiet it is on the downhill.does it have any un wanted chatter? I am fine with motor noise because it is supposed to be there. Its a little un nerving to have your bike sound like its going to fall apart on the downhill.
  • 1 0
 Not loud one bit other than the motor whilst climbing or flats.
  • 7 5
 I was stoked until I saw the battery wasn't removable. I'll stick to getting a Transition Relay then, which can double as a meat-bike.
  • 2 1
 It is just not as easily as a relay
  • 8 1
 power your batteries with bananas
  • 3 1
 @bigmeatpete420: From the article: "The battery itself isn't easily removable".
All batteries on ebikes are removable with enough faff and tools. Doesn't mean you'll ever do it. It's like saying the batteries in your phone is removable. In practice, you can take it out and replace it, but it's not designed for the end user to do it on a daily basis.
  • 2 0
 Love my Relay. It’s 170/170 29” now and yeah you can pedal it without the battery but she’s a hefty one compared to a full-meat, haha. I gave it a go last time I was out camping. With the battery in I get at least 3,000’ of vert in each ride. More than double what I used to get on typical rides. Longest ride so far was 25 miles and 4,000’ but that killed the battery.
  • 2 1
 @mi-bike: says the guy posting from his phone.
  • 2 0
 Lack of range extender? What’s that plug below the water bottle cage for then? A range extender was supposed to release this summer
  • 1 1
 try next year, maybe
  • 1 0
 I want it in yellow and with a Bosch Race engine.......A real surface-to-ground missile, whatever.

The whole thing weighs 21 KG (46 lbs) With 250 W/h extender, optional, just in case.
  • 3 1
 can't wait till you see this bike in 5 years with a E-delete being used by some park rat kid who bought it second hand ! hahah seriously think about that
  • 6 0
 i foresee a healthy cottage industry rebuilding unsupported high end ebikes picked up for cheap. ie, restuffing battery packs with current generation cells, actually servicing components within broken motor assemblies, and yeah, perhaps gutting frames & replacing motors with bb cradles (kinda like the trinity bikes). sounds like a fun hobby, actually.
  • 2 0
 @xy9ine: That is crazy to think! but you are totally right, scrapping an old alloy or steel frame was one thing, carbon is another. but now electric waste is a whole new world of environmental impact, no different then cell phones.
  • 1 1
 @xy9ine: E-bike motor rebuilders and upgraders (upgrade known failure points) already exist in Europe.
  • 3 0
 The cheapo controller and wire alone would make me not want to buy this. They should’ve put the new Bosch system
  • 1 1
 I just bought my first eeb, which weighs 10+ lbs more but has the same power and only slightly larger battery, and I considered it pretty "full power" (older Shimano STEPS 7000). Now I could've bought 3 of em for the starting price of this one, but still, impressed by this SC.
  • 1 1
 It's a good review, but clearly Kaz isn't sold on the lightweight eMtb category- while Cam at NSMB is. To each their own. I have the Fuel EXe and I love it. I think a lot of the preference comes down to how many bikes you want to own.
  • 3 0
 If this is "a good jumper", how do I even get my arms in?
Frankly, I don't see how I'm supposed to wear it
  • 3 1
 How much does it cost to have your article kept at the top of the newsfeed rather than slide down the list as others are published
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer So the frame and battery are integrated....is that correct? What happens when the battery needs replacing as they loose the ability to properly recharge overtime. Can this be done or is the whole frame redundant....like an iPhone?
  • 12 3
 Can hardly believe this has to be stated.
A decent mechanic, pretty certain that's not you, can drop the motor (pull cranks, chainring, then 4 bolts) then slide the battery out from the bottom.
Did you really think that they laided up and cooked a CF frame around a battery pack and it's cables? Cheese and rice man!
  • 2 0
 @SunsPSD: Thank you for taking the time to write such a lovely reply. You're right, I'm not a decent mechanic. On the flip side, I'm not a troll. You win some, you loose some.
  • 1 1
 With all of these E bikes, coming onto the market, there will be a glut of used e-bikes coming into the used market. It would be great if the pinkbike editors would do a used EBike buyers guide for us of those who cannot, or are not interested in buying a new one.

Is buying a used e bike worth it or not?
  • 3 0
 Ebikes those day: only side picture so you think downtube is as thin as a bike..
  • 2 1
 Wonder how long batteries and motors last on the e-bikes (motorcycles with pretend pedals) and what the warranty is on these parts?
Specialized Turbo Levo Gen 2 Battery Pack = $1,299.99
Shimano Steps DU-E8000 = $1,010.49
  • 1 1
 I see a lot of people riding newer bikes and now even e-bikes! But fundamentally the industry is passing riders by! Many of people I see don't have the basic bike skills to handle the bike while the modern bike just descends automatically! I saw this high school kid still little boy body on a large 29inch DH bike take first but the bike was riding him! hahahaha the boy was just hanging on!
  • 1 0
 Might be Barking Dog behind that poison oak backdrop

You don't hold the turbo down, it's for quick boosts!
clip.cafe/galaxy-quest-1999/you-dont-hold-the-turbo-down/t/1
  • 4 1
 Only 2.7 kg more than a normal enduro bike. Wtf is going on
  • 2 0
 sugarcoated with a lyric
  • 6 0
 Not exactly. Yes, this is still light for an e-bike, but if you're really doing an equal comparison, the top spec X0 AXS Reserve Bronson is 31.46 lbs (14.27 kg), and the equivalent spec Heckler SL is 41.92 lbs (19.01 kg), which is a 4.74 kg difference.
  • 2 3
 @MegaMatt5000: Yeah, but in all honesty you won’t notice the extra 10 lbs
  • 3 0
 Why not additional charger adapter? Thats a fluss
  • 4 0
 Looks like a Crestline!
  • 2 0
 I better think of a very nice letter to send to Santa Clauz. It's almost X-Mas...
  • 1 2
 Norona is the man been testing and riding real Squamish conditions and definitely agree , love e-bikes my last one Cannondale Moterra was awesome and it was pretty old (2017) ex rental never missed a beat. Bosch cx. Prices keep climbing to a motorcycle level and it doesn’t make sense. I would not buy a ebike light less power because it’s pointless.
  • 2 0
 Every time I read the phrase “lunch ride” I always wonder who these people are that have time to ride at lunch.
  • 3 0
 Welcome to WFH and IT nerds Smile
  • 2 0
 What's the price for the Bibike 9 spd drivetrain and Bucklos suspension build?...Asking for a friend.
  • 1 0
 I have a Heckler Mx with the 504wh battery that weighs 45lbs. I want MORE range, not less, so this doesn't appeal to me at all. Although I do love that color!
  • 1 0
 What a banger- nice work guys. I showed it to a friend of mine who rides a Bronson, and we almost got him over to the dark side. Only a matter of time!
  • 4 2
 WOW, I’m ready to order!
  • 13 0
 No you're not.
  • 4 2
 Please keep the Heckling to a minimum in the comments!
  • 2 0
 Read this as aluminium. Thanks for the chuckle.
  • 1 0
 my enduro 29 is 16.34kg- all AXS no carbon wheels. Impressive SC, impressive but no thank you even if i could afford it!
  • 2 2
 My kenevo sl is 21kg with dh tyres and a coil. Ebike weights are never what they say on the website or are weighed with shit parts
  • 3 1
 blimey looks like a normal bike....you can't tell it's a E bike...
  • 7 9
 Santacruz have missed the point of a little battery EEB. Folk buying one want to be able to remove the battery to have a regular bike all in 1 solution, also be able to travel with the bike and have an external battery that meets the travelling rules. EEB's are amazing as you can hammer the runs, but a shuttle EEB has to meet the basic criteria being an Amish and an Oil tanker in 1.
  • 4 1
 Agree. Captive battery is a no-go for me.
  • 8 1
 This varies I'd say. I have a Relay and I think the quick remove battery is its sole downfall. I'd rather save a half kilo and have less rattles with the fixed battery.
  • 2 2
 @SunsPSD: Interesting, would hope that they didnt have rattle problems, other frames with removable batteries have solved this issue.
500g extra frame weight for the holder and anything additional needed for the battery seems excessive. Hopefully over time the designs will become more refined.
I would want an EEB that I could ride as a normal bike also without the battery and that I could travel with abroad.
I only by 2nd hand as I am not gentle on bikes, so will be waiting a good many years just now. Maybe have an EEB next year and thrash the life out of it for the short time until an EP8 motor dies.
  • 3 1
 @betsie: the weight gain isn't really the latching mechanism but instead probably the additional grand reinforcement that is must certainly required.
  • 3 0
 @SunsPSD look no further than your Relay for those numbers--the frame weights for the carbon vs aluminum frames of that bike are insane, due entirely to the double-thick madness that was required to make the open battery bay zone strong enough. The aluminum frame is 5 pounds more than the carbon. Five! Wild.
  • 1 0
 A majority of Santa Cruz's US business comes from between the Rockies, to the West Coast.
In those places, driving to riding destinations is feasible, preferable, and/or the only way to access them
(e.g. Denver to Moab)
This is part of why "van life" culture is very strong in the US (a natural extension of our legendary car culture.)
It seems kinda silly to have a $150k built out sprinter,
but you can definitely properly utilize and enjoy it (even if most owners don't)
It seems like mainland Europe has a pretty developed camper van culture for the same reason?
So, this might be a miss with people who need to fly to where riding is, but I don't think that's
their target audience, so they'll gladly concede those sales to other brands, if they can pull competitors' market share from the aforementioned markets with a superior riding experience, at the expense of battery removal.
  • 1 0
 @blcpdx: I heard last night that you can remove the battery for travelling, its not so simple as a cover but can be done by removing the motor.
Interesting concept if that is what they have gone for.

The other point where EEB's are developing is motors that can be pedalled off, makes sense for both efficiency with the motor on as transmission losses are reduced. Having borrowed an EEB at the weekend and risked the last climb on red, pedalling a Vitus with an EP8 off up a steep fire road for a couple of miles was not fun (the descent was worth it though to get an additional lap in), when the battery died the guy on the Trek said this was one reason he bought his EEB, less power and travel but only 5W of efficiency loss for pedalling back up the hill.

EEB's are nearly there as a complete alternative to an Analogue, some standardization, efficiency tweaking, dynamic control still to go.
  • 1 0
 @betsie: Yeah, if frame and power-train technology can evolve such that a frame can be used with or without a motor with almost no functional changes, bike brands will benefit by being able to develop and offer a bike in either configurations. So instead of developing the next Bronson, and then some other eBike, Santa Cruz could develop the new Bronson, and offer it in a 'e' version, where the motor is installed, along with appropriately tuned shock, and then you can add or remove the motor via a kit, similar to recently released bike that allow for mullet or 29er setups with flipchips or different links.
Trying to achieve this could result in some pretty cool new designs, though there certainly will be some duds!
  • 1 0
 @blcpdx:
The closest we have for now is the likes of the Trek fuel exe (works fine with a 160mm air fork, so would work with a 170mm coil then).
It uses the TQ-HPR50 www.tq-ebike.com/en

www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/bikes/mountain-bikes/electric-mountain-bikes/fuel-exe/fuel-exe-9-5/p/36361

Nice review
flowmountainbike.com/tests/trek-fuel-exe-review-long-term

If I had to have 1 bike right now, this might be the one... although I have 8 Amish bikes in reality because everyone needs a... BMX, Jump Bike, 4x bike, Road Bike, Cx Bike, XC bike, Enduro bike and DHBike! Zero EEB's, just borrow one.
  • 2 0
 @betsie: Yeah, I've heard from friends that the TQ motor is eerily quiet, so I'm interested to check it out.
TQ motor is a great example of what I'm talking about, re: technology evolving over time.
I think the BB junction will be the epicenter of innovation, e.g. a BB junction that is completely replaceable/swappable between a TQ style motor and standard 73mm BSA BB threaded junction.
During and before COVID, brands probably would have preferred to release two different bikes, and capitalize on dealers/users needing to buy both to get both. But after the nuclear winter brands are about to have, they might be inclined to actually operate in ways that translate to efficiency at the retail level, i.e. make products which appeal to multiple markets.
  • 2 0
 @blcpdx: I like your analogy at the end.
There is going to be a few different outcomes as there are with normal mountain bikes.
1. The mass market brawler, 85+NM and 50+lb.
2. The versatile bike, maybe a light motor at the BB is a given due to manufacturing constraints and cost scaling
3. The boutique rider who buys an under engineered and under tested bike that is different, tells the world its be best thing ever but is forever going to be last down the hill (slight exaggeration but folk did buy geometrons, I owned an Orange once too...bad... so bad... terrible ).

Where the issue arises is.
The Amish rider cant keep up on the climbs with 1,2 or 3 so an Amish riding with an oil tanker is always going to compromise the lap count of the tanker driver.
The lower powered EEB guy is gonna have to rinse his battery to keep up with the oil tanker and will have compromised the descending capability of the bike by riding slower or with lighter tyres, shock etc and have less travel.
The boutique guy just wants to take Instagram photos and not thrash his oil tanker, its more a cruise liner than oil tanker and he just wants to show how pretty it is and tell everyone that its amazing, when we all know its not, but humour him, he probably drives a range rover, owns a sports car, goes to 5 start hotels for his holidays, plays golf.

As ideal as the 140mm travel sub 20kg EEB is, when your at the top you will always want that 170mm oil tanker with Dh tyres on and go full hammer. Vitus hit the home run with the Sommet, its an affordable oil tanker that can descend like a rocket. Will be interesting to see what their budget oil tanker is like, its got more climbing power! They just need to sort out the motor drag so when your over 15mph or in the wrong mode out of a corner going down, you can dont feel like your trying to pedal though a bog up hill to get any pedal input speed.

This comes back to my original point.
1. Oil tanker, basically a DH bike with an engine.
2. The middle man between a trail bike and Amish, the bike for the 1 bike rider, so that battery has to be removable to make it a normal bike, especially for when the battery is flat and you want to keep riding.
3. Nobody cares, they are on the golf course boasting about their new driver.... haha (thats a joke pinkbikers, dont take it too seriously)
  • 1 0
 @betsie: Why would you need an eeb if your bike of choice is only 140mm of travel? If your local trails only require 140mm bike, just pedal and get in shape. Obviously there are exceptions, an eeb is a valid tool for older people and people with health issues.
  • 1 0
 @motts: I would only want 140mm rear as I can rip it on 140mm, means you have to pick lines a little more over ploughing and 140mm makes double blacks more spicy. 170mm up front as thats doing most of the work anyway!!!
  • 1 0
 Looks the part but mega money again, The SL's never hold their value as well as a full power either.
  • 2 1
 Basically the same price as the new slash and other similar bikes so I say it’s pretty good deal
  • 1 0
 That looks nice and no Shimano motor, now can they make it in black please?
  • 1 1
 Although I would like it to have a removable battery like the Transition Relay
  • 1 0
 E bikes arent compatable with my poor budget, riding, maintenance efforts, running costs etc but admit this one looks nice.
  • 2 0
 How can we be judgy @ssholes if they look the same as regular bikes.
  • 1 0
 Can it be ridden without a motor and battery (like Lapierre eZesty)?
  • 1 0
 I do not believe their ST angle claim
  • 2 1
 Positive Point.... no cable tourism Smile
  • 1 4
 So far only Transition have nailed the SL e-mtb. Having a removable batt seems like such a no-brainer idea so that you can have two bikes in one.
I take my Keno SL to the bike park quite regularly and run it without the motor and even pedal it turned off up some road climbs (fitness/ intervals etc) but having the option to drop a bunch of weight and have a almost regular enduro bike would be awesome.
  • 2 2
 Add Focus to who nailed the SL thing with the Jam2 SL. Fazua 60 and removable batt too
  • 1 0
 Lapierre did it a few years ago.
  • 2 2
 How do you not put a zeb on this lol…

Friends of mine have 38s/zebs on their non E trail bikes ffs
  • 1 0
 I mean at least it’s not hideous.
  • 1 0
 That purple color is very nice! Always pretty bikes coming from sc.
  • 1 0
 Sc needs to drop the prices $1k across the entire lineup.
  • 1 0
 I wonder if a SC Bullit SL on the horizon ?
  • 1 0
 Waiting for the NOMAD SL version now please SC!
  • 3 3
 No removable battery is a huge oversight
  • 1 1
 almost $20,000.00 for a bicycle is kind of a privilage
  • 1 0
 And the roots of the heckler have been taken away! The heckler is a single pivot single track monster! The modern prices are not for the modern rider! its sad!
  • 1 0
 Can it be coiled though?
  • 2 0
 @LemonadeMoney: Tesla coiled
  • 1 0
 Overpriced
  • 1 0
 Sadly all modern bikes have a prices thats nowhere close to what riders need!
  • 3 5
 Looks like Santa Cruz looked at what Pivot did and said “yeah let’s do that”
  • 11 2
 yeah because that's how product development works. A bike comes out a couple months ago and Santa Cruz goes... yeah man let's copy that bike. Then they design, engineer, test, produce and deliver a bike in a couple months....
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