First Ride: Transition's New Spire & Patrol

Jun 2, 2021 at 14:12
by Mike Kazimer  



Transition launched the new Patrol earlier this week, and it's now joined by the Spire, a heavy hitting 29er with 170mm of front and rear travel. Transition call it a 'nimble bruiser', although that might be a bit of a stretch – its extra-slack head angle and long-ish chainstays mean the Spire is undoubtedly happiest when it's binging on steep, rugged terrain.

There are carbon and alloy frame options, with five sizes, from S to XXL, that should accommodate a wide range of rider heights. For riders who want to take the mixed wheel route, it's possible to run the Spire with a 27.5” rear wheel when the flip chip is in the high setting.

Two complete carbon framed models will be available - the Carbon GX model is prices at $5,899, and the Carbon XT model is $6,599. A carbon frame and shock only is $3,299, and the aluminum frame is $2,299.
Transition Spire Details

• Wheel size: 29"
• Travel: 170 (r) / 170mm (f)
• Frame material: aluminum or carbon
• 62.5 or 63-degree head angle
• 12 x 148mm rear spacing
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL, XXL
• Aluminum Spire: $3,699 - $5,399; $2,299 frame only
• Carbon Spire: $5,899 - $6,599; $3,299 frame only
transitionbikes.com


There are three different complete aluminum models, with prices ranging from $3,699 up to $5,399. No matter the model, all bikes have Schwalbe's Magic Mary / Big Betty Super Trail tires, a OneUp dropper post, and a OneUp bash guide.

Color choices for the carbon Spire include huckleberry (shown) or primer grey.

The same frame details found on the Patrol are carried over to the Spire, including a straight 1.5” head tube that opens up the door for riders to experiment with reach or angle adjust headsets, or a dual crown fork. There's room for a water bottle inside the front triangle, accessory mounts under the top tube, and a threaded bottom bracket.

The Spire has a touch less leverage rate progression than the Patrol (23% vs. 24%), but that number should still allow it to easily accommodate a coil or air shock. Speaking of shocks, it's possible to run a 205 x 60mm shock rather than the 205 x 65mm version that's spec'd in order to drop the amount of travel down to 160mm.

The carbon frame has tube-in-tube routing for the derailleur and dropper post housing, with external routing for the rear brake, and the alloy frame uses foam sleeves to help keep housing rattle at bay. There's also molded rubber seatstay, chainstay, and downtube protection, and SRAM's Universal Derailleur Hanger.



Geometry

Like the Patrol, the Spire has a two geometry options that are adjusted via a flip chip at the lower shock mount. In the lower position the head angle is 62.5-degrees, which makes this the slackest bike in Transition's lineup, the TR11 downhill bike included. Reach numbers range from 430 – 535mm, and all sizes have steep seat tube angles with short seat tubes that make it possible to run longer dropper posts. Sizes S-L have 446 or 448 chainstays depending on the flip chip position, and then the XL and XXL sizes get longer, 452 or 454mm chainstays to help maintain an appropriate front to rear center balance.


The alloy Spire is available in bright orange or raw.




Ride Impressions

Earlier this year I was able to get in a few rides on the Patrol and on the Spire, enough time to get a form some initial impressions of the handling similarities and differences.

On both bikes, the slack head angle does mean the steering feels a little heavy while climbing, but because of the steep seat angle you don't get that unweighted, floppy feeling that would have been present in the past, back when bikes had slack seat angles and short front centers. The Patrol and Spire are obviously very slack, and they're not going to be the bike for mellower terrain, but there's also no reason you can't get up some techy climbs with them.

With the Patrol, the cornering is what really stood out. The very low bottom bracket and the smaller back wheel help create a bike that lives to blast through turns, the faster the better. It jumps well too – it's a little more eager to get off the ground than the Spire, and it has more of a goof-off-ability to it. You know those videos of UK riders snaking their way down some muddy rut track hidden in the woods? That's who the Patrol is for.

The Spire has a bigger presence on the trail, and while it's no slouch in the corners, it's on the steeps where it feels the most at home. The sense of security it delivers on those portions of trail that feel you're like dropping into an elevator shaft is impressive; the way it tames fall-line plunges had me on the hunt for even longer and rowdier descents.

Downsides? Well, that low bottom bracket height and the 165mm cranks aren't going to be for everyone. Even with those short cranks I still hit my pedals occasionally, and in really rocky areas that could get annoying. The alloy models I rode also aren't the lightest bikes, although that faded to the background pretty quickly.

Overall, both bikes almost seem like they escaped the laboratory a little early; there's sort of a wild, slightly unrefined air to them. I like that trait – it's a nice change from the bikes that incrementally push boundaries a millimeter at a time. We're working on getting one in for some longer term testing - keep an eye out for that review later in the summer.


369 Comments

  • 166 1
 Another aluminum frame from Transition!

This is great news, and gives me hope for future bike releases as well Smile .
  • 68 0
 And giving ally frame only option
  • 40 3
 Also super reasonable prices given the build spec and that Transition is a boutique company. That XT build is less money than the Megatower build but you get factory level suspension.
  • 70 13
 If you “release” a bike, but nearly all sizes/builds aren’t available for 3+ months (per Transition’s website), did you really release a bike?
  • 36 0
 @Drew-O: Well, YT released a bike that isn't available until a few months into 2022, so yeah, 3 months doesn't seem too bad.
  • 72 4
 @HB208: You cant compare the mickey mouse antics of YT with a legit brand like Transition . . . .
  • 25 0
 @Drew-O: Cant even get the NFT version of it either
  • 23 0
 @noplacelikeloam: I love Transition as a company. My Spur is one of the best bikes I have ever ridden.
  • 9 1
 @HB208: @HB208: These bikes are better value propositions than a couple dozen Rainiers, a box of fireworks, a bucket of horse manure, and my elderly neighbor cutting their grass.
  • 3 0
 Love it! Hope more companies catch on to this.
  • 6 0
 @Drew-O: I mean, supply issues have a lot of things messed up right now. At least you can reserve one instead of waiting 3+ months and having them sell out.
  • 107 0
 @Drew-O We wish we had bikes for you! There are many delays currently in the supply chain, most of which are completely out of our hands. We figured it was better to launch and let people know what we have coming, then to keep them in the dark this season when they may be looking to get a new bike. Just know that we want you all to have these bikes as bad as you want to be riding them.
  • 8 36
flag Drew-O (Jun 3, 2021 at 10:22) (Below Threshold)
 @vbjornsson: Sure, stock of existing bikes is near-zero. But this is a new bike, i.e. there are no pre-existing orders. Seems like the responsible thing would be to get some frames made, THEN announce the bike. As it is, Transition have just created yet another backorder/"when do I get my bike" situation where none needed exist.
  • 16 1
 @Drew-O: This is pretty standard in many industries. Think the new iphone is available on the day its announced? Pre-sales is a thing.
  • 4 23
flag secondtimeuser (Jun 3, 2021 at 10:44) (Below Threshold)
 @TransitionBikeCompany: if you really wanted me to have a Spire as badly as I want to be riding it, you could just ship one to me free of charge when they land, just sayin' Wink

Super stoked on the lineup, hopefully next year will be the one I can replace my '17 Patrol with something!
  • 23 1
 @Drew-O: You're assuming the issue is the frames and not OE supply of literally ever other part. I'm aware of some brands beginning to ship 'completes' with the caveat that critical parts such as headsets are left out. I respect Transition's stance of explaining they're in a tough spot (like every other manufacturer), and treating us all like adults by essentially saying "we want to show you these new bikes, and we're sorry you can't get them right away, but this is what we've been working on and why don't you consider these in the near future". To Transition I say shut up and take my money (when you can, I'll be patient).
  • 6 1
 @TransitionBikeCompany:

Two questions, if you have the time:

I LOVE that you're doing alloy builds again. It brings your bikes back into the price bracket I can afford. Can you spill some of the beans on if you're expecting to continue this trend back through the most of/the rest of your lineup over time?

Any idea when the Factory demos going to start back up? I'm local-ish, and would love to give some of these bikes a ride, as I'm still trying to find what geo works best for me, and what size (I'm between L and XL, at 6'1" barefoot, with a long inseam).
  • 2 0
 @HB208: This. I have owned 3 Transitions and loved each one dearly! The most fun on 2 wheels.
  • 7 0
 Loving all the long-travel bikes from Transition, but fingers crossed for a new Smuggler to slot in between the Spur and Sentinel.
  • 35 0
 @nzandyb: hit the nail on the head here. We have already moved the launch date multiple times leading up to this. Each time because of a different component being delayed. We love making bikes, and really just wanted to show the world what we have been up to. In an ideal world, we would have them in stock and ready to go, but with them only being a little ways out (in comparison to others currently), we felt this was the best we could do in our current situation.
  • 1 0
 @Hayek: But if there was a smuggler, I couldn't convince my wife I need two bikes.
  • 4 1
 @noplacelikeloam: whats with all of the yt hate
  • 1 0
 @noplacelikeloam: Same with death metal releases.
  • 3 0
 @HB208: If there was a smuggler I couldn't convince myself I need a wife and a bike.
  • 4 2
 @secondtimeuser: bike companies hate when people say stupid stuff like this, just sayin'
  • 1 0
 @HB208: I think you’re selling yourself short. I’m sure you’re resourceful enough to find a way to sell her on it.
  • 1 0
 @Hayek: Fair, but if I had two bikes I would still rather have a short travel bike like the Spur and then a long travel bike (either to sentinel or patrol is what I am thinking).
  • 3 0
 @HB208: Spur and Sentinel would be a golden combo. Would love to have both.
  • 3 0
 @CycloGoss: yeah, that's a fair call, poorly judged on my part Salute
  • 1 0
 @Hayek: We shall see what the budget looks like in a year or two. I want to put some new wheels on my Spur first and maybe carbon cranks.
  • 9 1
 Mike Kazimer "Unwanted rock strikes"


Tell me more about these 'wanted rock strikes' again ?
  • 4 0
 @TransitionBikeCompany: Any chance of frame-only being available sooner then? Forbidden has done this due to OEM parts challenges. Though perhaps these challenges extend to frame-necessary things like bearings and hardware.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: Right there with you! I LOVE my Spur!
  • 5 0
 There is no doubt Aluminum is making a come back.........must be a market for aluminum frames after all Wink
  • 1 0
 But carbon....no but.....

Am i being hooked yet again, old tech only to be bamboozled with new numbers.:/

Ok I get it if in stock and I need I buy.
  • 1 1
 @noplacelikeloam:

Poor choice of example, since the day Apple starts promotion of a new product, is the same day it’s available.

That doesn’t speak to leaks, etc.
  • 2 0
 @hllclmbr: erm, might want to check that one. It’s a classic apple play that I’ve been on many AMA round tables where it has been cited.
  • 1 0
 @TransitionBikeCompany: There's a loam gold Sentinel out there somewhere waiting for me, sigh.
  • 115 2
 God that purple is LOVELY
  • 7 8
 To me, giving my gf the "Hucklebuck" is something different.

But yes, the purple huckleberry is pretty
  • 10 0
 @ReformedRoadie: Why Johnny Ringo - you look like somebody just walked over your grave!
  • 6 0
 Hands down my favorite color Transition has released, and I've fallen in love with a few of their colors lately. Looking at you, Spur.
  • 81 4
 Grim Donut was real prophecy!
  • 9 34
flag haen (Jun 3, 2021 at 8:57) (Below Threshold)
 PB slowly coming around to the realization that slack is better for riding downhill, aka mountain biking.
  • 58 2
 For Sale: SC Nomad 4 frame
  • 9 3
 Cant upvote this enough. @santacruzbikes, watch and learn.
  • 51 1
 I'm slack as f*ck boiiii
  • 4 4
 lol! funny
  • 47 2
 We still publishing bike and frame weights or nah?
  • 10 73
flag mtbtrekracer (Jun 3, 2021 at 2:55) (Below Threshold)
 because its not really relevant. the Pros dont care much for it.
  • 65 6
 @mtbtrekracer: Cool, then why did they bother making a carbon version?
  • 13 58
flag mtbtrekracer (Jun 3, 2021 at 3:12) (Below Threshold)
 @Linc: LOL, you do know most manfs dont make carbon for the sake of weight right?
Look at Trek and the session and intense with the DH bike.

lighter Weight from carbon is generally about agility, stiffness and efficiency(pedaling)
Heavier bikes, ride like absolute tanking monster trucks.
If you havnt, ride an Ebike they just plow an jump well due to the way the suspension works with the weight.
However as we are seeing lately - Well designed alloy bikes are very stiff and many Pros are choosing alloy.
  • 62 1
 Weight matters to me. Plenty of good descents involve a push/hike-a-bike to get to the top. When you're carrying the bastard up the side of a mountain for an hour then weight matters.
  • 31 1
 @mtbtrekracer: Do you hear yourself talking? You rightfully say that alloy can be stiff (which is true) immidiately after saying that you use carbon for that? Makes no sense. And yes the agility of carbon results from the saved weight. And pedaling efficiency does not have anything to do with the frame material.
  • 6 0
 They are both DH race bike weight.
  • 14 1
 @Bobadeebob: try light wheels, light cassette and quality hubs then. Frame and sprung weight is vastly irrelevant for bike performance and rotational mass is what makes the most notable difference climbing wise. Been riding the new Force29 Elite which is anything but ligth, it was a dog climbing and since I put quality wheels and ligth enough tires it is now a breeze to climb tho the overall bike weight hasn't changed dramatically and the frame is still heavy AF.
  • 17 1
 @Linc, the locally powdercoated models I rode (the ones in the video) were both around 36lb (16.3 kg).
  • 17 0
 @mikekazimer: fatties
  • 14 1
 I remember Kaz griping over the 38lb Norco Shore (a dedicated long-travel freeride bike) being too heavy.
Seems a bit inconsistent not to mention the weight of a 36lb mid-travel bike.
  • 3 1
 @dkidd: two pounds is a big difference. And some bikes ride light or heavy for their weight.
  • 6 0
 @dkidd: Norco’s aren’t made in his hometown!
  • 6 0
 @dkidd: Especially ridiculous when Transition is asking people to spend $1000 more for the carbon version, a key benefit of which is likely to be weight savings, that they fail to even mention… I want to know what the extra $1000 gets me!
  • 1 1
 @fred-frod: you didnt read it properly.
  • 5 2
 @dkidd, the Shore is still too heavy. And I wish the aluminum Spire frame was lighter too.
  • 5 0
 @mikekazimer: Too heavy to be a 180mm freeride bike? It's a DH bike that you can kinda pedal uphill.

I think they made a lighter version of the Spire frame, out of some form of fibrous composite based on a little-known element called... I forget what it was, but anyway the point is, other bikes already exist with a higher weight priority. Even from the same company... and even under the same model name.
  • 2 1
 @mikekazimer: Whether not the shore is too heavy, it made me feel better about my older bikes when I demo'ed one from my LBS.
  • 3 0
 @Socket: If only there was some website somewhere that had recently reviewed both the aluminium version, and this impressive "fibrous composite" material bike you speak of. Perhaps a hypothetical website like this could let readers know the weights of these bikes so that readers could compare within and across brands themselves?
  • 1 0
 @Linc: The extra grand for plastic is a lot to spend instead of eating less pizza, drinking less beer, doing the exercises I should be doing, and spending it on the X01 flavor components
  • 35 0
 I am just glad that guys on Sentinels can finally start wearing Lycra and shaving their legs.
  • 26 0
 I just put gravel tires and some drop bars on mine.
  • 5 0
 @Bob12051968: and here I am, Sentinel owner who just placed an order for my new Rapha kit: www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/rapha-performance-trailwear/category/mtb?q=gender:Mens
  • 22 0
 What do people feel about the pros and cons of really low Bottom Brackets like in the Spire and Patrol? I haven't ridden too many bikes with varying BB heights but the occasional jaw rattling pedal strikes on my Marin really make me wonder if the tradeoff of clearance for better handling is really worth it Frown
  • 37 6
 Learn to gather speed using terrain and pumping, not pedalling. It makes u a better rider in a way. On the uphills though, you just need to keep an eye on which line to take, where to put in an occasional half spin to avoid something. Low BB with proper chainstay length is the bee’s knees in corners!
  • 13 1
 Madonna v2 was way too low for me. D destroy chainring every other ride if there was no bashguard. Yes, if you are a very skilled rider you can propably move it around more and get take advantage of low center of gravity. But for me it was just too heavy to do that. And weight of Spire is same ballpark
  • 1 0
 @tedchalk: I have a feeling ~340mm BB heights are about right for 130-140mm travel trail bikes. I've heard no complaints from Meta TR or Reactor owners who have about the same BB height as the Madonna V2, but I guess the longer travel on the Madonna makes it a pretty common annoyance.

Side note - that Madonna's a gorgeous bike regardless - did you end up selling yours?
  • 31 4
 The workaround for pedal strikes is timing your pedalling. It becomes second nature. The workaround for a high BB is... there is no workaround. Low BBs are undeniably better for cornering. On the other hand, these two bikes don't seem unusually low to me, at 343mm and 350mm. Seems pretty much par for the course for today's long travel bikes. All my recent bikes' BB height are right around 335mm.
  • 1 0
 @Thebluelion: yes I sold it
  • 5 1
 @Bob12051968: 335 and 350 mm is a huge difference
  • 2 0
 @Bob12051968: You're right, that Spire isn't particularly low compared to some others but I was talking more about the Patrol which is 333mm on the low setting
  • 6 0
 My Mega isn't especially low, but I smack pedals quite a lot. Weirdly going down, it doesn't seem a problem and my plastic one-up pedals don't seem to care, but we have quite a lot of pedally off camber rooty climbs and contouring sections where it just stalls the bike, which is infuriating. Not pedaling, or ratcheting are not options. Wouldn't want to go much lower...
  • 15 0
 sometimes suspension kinematics and of course supension setup is more important than the 10mm of BB height , as mid travel support dominates bb height (not during huge compressions of course)..
  • 2 0
 @tedchalk: it’s 343-350 only 7mm same as an off sett bushing
  • 17 3
 @mountainsofsussex: I'm with you, I love all these people saying 'improve your timing'...probably only have 1 rock every kilometre or so.
  • 1 0
 I feel like my every other pedal strike is on lava rocks. The grinding of pins on pumice makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
  • 16 3
 @tb927 @mountainsofsussex: Nice to hear that there are people who still actually mountain bike out there, i.e. ride technical trails up, down, or flat. Somehow it seems like the definition of mountain biking on this site has changed to only caring about the downhills. As another guy who is routinely riding flat and uphill rockgardens, root sections, off-camber trails, etc. low BB heights are super annoying, and I can't imagine running a bike without a good bashguard.
  • 3 2
 A low BB require more attension to line choice and timing your pedal stroke. But my god is it worth it. If you like to go fast it's the best. Railing corners with more confidene is such a a great feeling. My Mondraker's BB is about the same a as the Patrol. Maybe a tad lower, and I love it!
  • 4 0
 @tedchalk: Exactly, that's why I was wondering why 350 is considered low.
  • 5 0
 @Lagr1980: Good point. Transition usually suggest quite a bit of sag so I can see why these bikes would ride lower than the numbers indicate.
  • 3 0
 @robw515: I mainly enjoy the downhills, but I've got terrain in between the downhills that I damned if I'm walking along! I do secretly like a techy climb though...
  • 15 5
 Never going lower than 350mm again. Not where I ride at least.

Had a 2013 Spesh Enduro 29 with 355mm BB (150mm travel): Bike was way ahead of it's time, rode so well. I don't think I ever had an OTB in 3 years of racing dozens of races at a high level.

Switched to a 2016 YT Jeffsy 29 with 340mm BB (140mm travel): Had 2 of the biggest crashes of my life in the first 6 months from hitting something with my pedal at high speed. Bent a crank and damaged my back the first time, broke a handlebar the other time. In both cases I never even registered what I hit, and had no hope of controlling the crash, the bike stops dead while you fly ahead, head under heels, at 30-40kph. Over forked the bike by 20mm and reduced the crank length to rectify the danger, still hit my pedals all the time and broke a chainring clean off the spider once, plenty of near misses from high speed pedal strikes.

I currently have a mulleted 27.5 E-Bike which massively raised the BB: BB is at 360mm which I assumed would feel like crap... I can barely feel any negative aspect to it, the bike is massively improved overall thanks to the bigger wheel and slack headangle. Big bonus is I can do impossible climbs all day long.
  • 9 0
 @robw515:
I originally ordered a revel rail , but I canceled it because I rewalized there were no iscg tabs to mount a bash guard.
Immediate deal breaker on the east coast in my opinion
  • 11 0
 @Mugen: No low BB for me either. When my dad bod gets cramped, exhausted, and lazy on long, steep, techy climbs, I just want to sit and grind, not do acrobatic power moves every 20 feet. I like to save power for the downhills so I can enjoy them and make it down them safely. A higher BB or bike that rides higher in travel supports that.
  • 9 0
 @Mugen: Clipping a pedal at high speed, or bar on a tree, is the nemesis of fast riders. Ask my broken ribs and concussion.
  • 2 3
 I can partially answer this, My Force29 have been mulleted with a 27.5 back wheel and flip chip on the high position to try to compensate. I just measured my BB height slightly below 340mm so lowered again than the Spire in the low setting. I've been riding gnarly local trails and our local bike park too, stock crank arms so 175mm. I honestly can't say that the BB have been problematic in any way. Keep in mind that I consider pedaling downhill to be basically cheating/failing at riding properly and that 99% of my climbs are on dirt road to connect to the next stage. I image it can be problematic for those who like tech climbs or like to pedal while going downhill but I haven't experienced it myself. I remember back in the days people complaining because of the low BB of the Iron Horse Sunday. Not sure what the actual numbers were but at the time is was one of the first with what was considered super low BB. Loved that bike every bit and never complained about BB height so I guess it also depends on your riding style and ability to place your feet correctly according to what's ahead.
  • 3 1
 @Mugen: Super low BBs aren't as needed with long slack bikes.

I too randomly flew over the bars recently when my bash guard caught a rock so hard on my Evo, and that's in the 'high' position.

What I'd like to see is adjustable BB height with a true high & low position instead of low & lower.

Also, different crank lengths for different sized riders makes sense, and your weight should be on the outside pedal through turns anyways, so then different BB heights based on bike size only makes sense to have the same overall turning feel between different sizes/ crank lengths.
  • 4 0
 @SunsPSD: yeah I’m on a a patrol and it actually scares me to hammer down and charge pedally sections of trail because of pedal strikes. For a 170 bike this thing should be like 355-360mm BB. Check out the Pivot Mach 6. Those dudes know what riding chunk is like.
  • 3 0
 Hopefully all you guys are running 165mm cranks.
  • 2 0
 @tedchalk: Damnit, I guess my wife was right!
  • 3 0
 XL Madonna V2 owner checking in: I have 170 cranks and I don't find that I'm getting more pedal strikes than I did with previous bikes. I use the climb switch and it sits pretty high in the travel with little bob, which I think helps. I got a few mm of clearance back using OneUp pedals as well.

If I rode a lot more undulating terrain, I think the low bb would eventually drive me nuts, as would the steep ST angle, but if that's what I predominantly rode then I wouldn't have bought the bike. I live in winch-and-plummet territory with occasional trail rides; for me, the geo is pretty much perfect.
  • 1 0
 @jordanredshaw: I think you are onto something. Like you I ride with a very low BB and love it but very rare are the tracks I ride that are not steep, and definitely never anything that is flat, requiring to pedal and chunky.
  • 2 0
 @sverreandre: what? I have a Foxy29 and ithe BB is really high. I love it, but it's not a low BB by any means
  • 2 1
 I like the low BB thing, so good good for everything but pedaling. And I think that with the absurdly large rear cassettes we are seeing, it’s time to start experimenting with ~160 cranks.
  • 1 0
 @tb927: I live in Colorado and ride the ROCKY mountains. To say the trails I ride are rocky is pretty obvious. I currently ride a '17 patrol and it's bottom bracket is definitely low. I swapped to 165mm cranks and that helped some but nothing has helped more than proper technique, timing, and gear selection. If you're trying to crank your way through a rock garden in 1st gear of course you will get pedal strikes.
  • 3 0
 I have 330 on 180mm bike with 165 cranks and 27,5 wheels( when bike sagged bash almost touching the ground)
+ corners
+ manuals
+ airtime
- uphill over anything tech
- bash is a must and replaced 1 per year
- only alloy cranks ( not minus, just u will smash them all of the time)
- rocky terrain downhill ( u will hit soonner or later no matter how u accurate)

-
  • 1 0
 @Thebluelion: 345 has become somewhat expected in the 160 travel range.
  • 5 2
 A hard pass on these bikes. I’ve ridden the Specialized Status - too slack for anything but the bike park. Pedal strikes with 165mm cranks? Maybe I’ll rent one to put on the chairlift :/
  • 1 0
 @Beecee336: I worked a summer in Grand Junction, so I know what you mean (Palisade Rim Trail and Lunch Loops etc. etc.) and I really miss the riding out there. It was kinda funny/scary how high consequence messing up there can be! Like the floor being made of massive jaggedy rocks with cacti in between. HOWEVER imho both there and here (Sheffield) there's only so much timing to be had on certain climbs before you lost all your speed....fun messes of boulders and pointy rocks that I used to scrabble up on my old bike I'm stumped on my new one (Pace RC529 hardtail)...of course the 175mm cranks and giant flat pedals don't help but I'm cheap.
  • 2 0
 @nickmalysh: you must have one hella big bash guard
  • 1 0
 @tedchalk: I do get along fine with the Madonna BB height. You have to pay attention a bit and not ride it with too much sag. But I find the geometry pretty perfect. But I can understand that there are other preferences.
A low bb drawback may not only be pedal strikes, but also stuffing your chainring into stuff.

I ride a 28t 1x11 with 10-42 cassette - no issues.

I´d NOT trade my Madonna for something with a higher BB though. Lots of benefits...
  • 2 0
 @znarf: 28T? Dude that is ... interesting. Anyway. Yes everything else about geo I liked a lot too. But still. Just way too heavy to try and adjust to low BB.
But hey. This is about TR lol
  • 1 1
 @Thebluelion
I haven't ridden too many bikes with varying BB heights
What do you mean "varying BB heights"?
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: Currently 155mm here Smile
  • 1 0
 @conoat: I ride a Crafty Carbon with 2,4 tires.
  • 25 0
 I dream it was a new smuggler but no , still waiting Frown
  • 22 0
 Lots of people seem to want an aluminium Spur, but it'd be a heavy lump if their other frames are anything to go by - defeating the object of the bike. What they should really do IMO is an updated Smuggler with 130mm rear travel. Such an iconic bike deserves to live on.
  • 7 1
 @chakaping: kind of like the Ripley AF, which seems to selling quite well...
  • 2 1
 @stevemokan: In between that and the Ripmo AF maybe? 130mm rear and 140/150mm front travel bikes are great all-rounders IME.
  • 1 0
 Same here, I've got a rolling order in at my LBS if a carbon Smuggler ever happens again.
  • 3 0
 I was shopping for a Smuggler right when they discontinued them. For me the charm was burly and 120mm rear, I wouldn't want more. It wouldn't be a Smuggler. I ended up purchasing a Spur, and it had been pretty awesome but I definitely don't treat it the way I would have the Smuggler.
  • 3 0
 Pretty much built my '21 Tallboy up as an imitation Smuggler
  • 3 0
 @stoweshred: tell me more!
  • 2 0
 @NateMob: 140mm fork... bike set in low position to accommodate over-forking... Actually not too much to it ha.
  • 1 0
 @stoweshred: any plans to try the Cascade link also?
  • 1 0
 @NateMob: I've seen it... but it's riding pretty sweet right now... Tallboy 140/120, for sure, what I was looking for at this point in time... got tired of dragging my Nomad around for 80-90% of my rides based on being able to take it to a bike park a few times a year - don't get me wrong my eyes wander to bike park bikes (like these) though as a tool in a quiver ~ but probably need a closer park to justify. [looks at Stowe/Vail intently]
  • 1 0
 I've long shocked my Smuggler with a 200 x 57 shock, increasing the rear travel to about 135mm. 150mm fork and it's a beast.
  • 1 0
 @commental: what year frame for you have?
  • 20 4
 Every time I hear about pushing the limits by these companies, I wish they'd give credit to Chris Porter at GeoMetron for pushing these limits years ago. Pretty ironic seeing the bikes now and then reading Paul Aston's take and the comments in the article below article from 2015.

www.pinkbike.com/news/nicolai-mojo-geometron-first-ride-2015.html
  • 3 1
 Yea - agreed. I am curious why they decided to go with a slacker STA. I don't think I would go with a slacker STA on my geometron. I did recently shorten my chainstays, which helped.
  • 2 0
 This x1000. Didn’t Chris work with transition to help them with SBG anyway? Either way, this bike is basically an XL G1! And no that is not a dig at transition.
  • 2 0
 @bigbrett: the large spire is right in between a small and a medium G1.
  • 2 0
 As they say, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I guess by ignoring the pioneering efforts of Geometron, Transition is repeating? To be fair, there are more pioneers, including Cesar Rojo and Fabien Barel, perhaps others.
Glad to see Transition bringing more awareness to the geometry some of us have been enjoying for years now.
  • 2 0
 @Mntneer: yeah haha sorry I was biased for my height and was looking at the xxl.
  • 1 0
 @bigbrett: oh you mean a monster sized bike
  • 16 0
 What can't you do on a Sentinel that the Spire makes possible? Seems like a lot of capability overlap on those two bikes.
  • 5 0
 thank you for validating my thoughts. I am not alone!!
  • 3 0
 @bikeskibikeski: Here with the same question.
  • 18 0
 @sngltrkmnd: @Lemmyschild @bikeskibikeski This is a great question, but sort of a tough one to answer. Can the Sentinel do everything the Spire does? Absolutely, but the Spire rides with a confidence and control that is just beyond the Senti. A few things come together to make this happen, the slacker HT, longer CS, and new leverage curve all help keep the Spire composed in even more rowdy terrain, while the suspension curve keeps it from feeling "wallow'y" so it's still light on it's feet like a Sentinel. Many people are probably wondering what is the right bike for them, because there is some overlap. But if you want to ultimate bike for going fast while staying in control, and pushing your limits, the Spire is the one.
  • 4 0
 This gives me all the motivation I needed to "trail spec" my new V2 sentinel. I am currently riding a V1 with cascade link and long shock so it is 158mm rear and 170mm front. Coils on both ends. It is far too much bike for 90% of local trails in this guise, but really fun at the local bike park. With my new frame I am going to short shock it to run 140mm rear and run the fork at 150mm. Still coils, cause COIL RULES!! That should make it a bit better for that 90% and I will order a Spire alloy deore build for the park. Hardtail, 120mm racy trail bike, 140mm all mountain bike, 170mm park bike. Life is good!
  • 1 0
 @garrisond5: wait... so you turned your v1 into a mini-spire and you are turning your v2 into a v1? I'm so confused.
  • 1 0
 @bikeskibikeski: You got it right! I am selling the V1 as soon as the V2 lands and I am going to dial it back to more of an "all mountain / trail bike" I don't need the big bike for anywhere except the bike park. Dropping the travel on the V2 will also steepen the head angle a touch bringing it back over 64 from the 63.7 stock. I plan on ordering a spire at some point to replace the V1 as a park bike.
  • 1 0
 I have this years Sentinel and really dig it. When it is very rough and fast though I do feel like additional travel in the back could help. I was on a Nomad V3 with an X2 for years and I sometimes feel like I'm missing that extra squish. Otherwise the bike rips on all angles of terrain.
  • 15 3
 It’s stuff like this that reaffirms why Transition is the best bike company. Now: get some inventory!
  • 12 6
 I love Transition and their whole ethos. But these angles and bb heights are basically unrideable on the east coast outside of bike parks. Must be nice not to have rocks or logovers to deal with. Oh well, I guess there's always the Spur, if you can find one in stock.
  • 2 0
 The spur has never been in stock unfortunately.
  • 3 0
 How I ended up on a new Enduro, bb isn’t super low.
  • 3 0
 Have to agree. Even here on the west coast, this is not even useful for a lot of enduro style riding.
  • 3 0
 Yeah my thoughts too. Looks awesome but this is getting unusable for my typical riding. Would be amazing if you only ride bike parks though. It's cool someone is offering it but I'll take something a bit less radical haha.
  • 1 0
 I've been wondering this since long/low/slack geo took over. I moved from the East coast in 2011 back to So Cal. My trailbike, a VP Free, had a 14.5" BB (368mm) that was a necessity on CT, NJ, and MA's rocky gnarly trails. Most bikes out there at the time were overbuilt aluminum mid to long-travel bikes, or burly hardtails, with 2x9 and a bashguard.

In the last decade I've dropped to 352mm for general riding with a pedal smack here and there in San Diego. I can't imagine navigating East Coast twisty gnar without some significant bashing.

What's the current long/low/slack limit of an everyday trailbike's geo these days in New England?
  • 1 0
 @jwdenver: o wouldn't say never. It was in stock for the first day or so after it was released. Lol
  • 3 0
 @chrod: my new Enduro is 354mm in high and is popular here in CT.
  • 2 0
 @DHhack: crap, I meant to say now riding a BB height of 335mm (duh).
So that Enduro BB height of 354 is boulder-friendly.
  • 2 0
 @chrod: my last bike was similar to yours and I don’t miss the pedal strikes. 175 cranks were horrible, 170 was ok. Same cranks on the new bike are pretty good most places. The longer wheelbase does hurt at times though.
  • 9 0
 I was hoping transition would release another bottle rocket.
  • 8 0
 Check out the Scout! It's the new age version of the Bottlerocket we all love.
  • 2 0
 @TransitionBikeCompany: Waiting for an alu Scout to come, would be the perfect bike for my son!!!! 27,5" wheels still rule for playfull riding and jump lines imo.
  • 1 0
 @TransitionBikeCompany: can I put 29 inch wheels on the scout?
  • 1 0
 @TransitionBikeCompany: I second this... Have the new scout, long-Shocked with a coil and its the dream!
  • 8 1
 I am scratching my head over the BB height - 25 or 32 mm drop does not seem excessive?
  • 1 1
 I am scratching my head over that forearm tattoo of what looks like a passenger airliner. I didn't think Kaz was an ink guy.
  • 2 0
 He said in the video it seems lower than the geometry chart says
  • 2 1
 remember there is also a lot of sag in these bikes. 30% of 170mm means the bb will be ANOTHER 51 mm lower than these numbers. That is super low.
  • 2 0
 I don't see what frame size was tested for this article, but the longer the bike the less clearance you will have on certain trail features on top of the above replies.
  • 6 1
 165mm cranks on a rowdy 29"straight from the factory has to be a first no?
I run 165's on my bike (27.5+ on 29") and haven't looked back.
No loss of power, way more clearance and less staggered when up on 'em descending.
  • 2 0
 Stumpjumper Evo
  • 1 0
 @motdrawde: 165s in large frame? I just visited Spesh's site and the version I checked showed 170s.. Usually if 165s.. its down in the small / x-small range..
  • 2 1
 165mm is the only crank available to spec until 2022.
  • 1 0
 @porkchopsandwich: I cut and paste this direct from Spesh's site:

Crankset SRAM X01 Eagle, DUB, S1:165mm, S2-S5: 170mm, S6: 175mm
Am I missing something?

www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-stumpjumper-evo/p/175267?color=281656-175267&searchText=96321-0001
  • 1 0
 @CDT77: Ah ok, my 2019/20 S2 came with 165. I think the s3 may have too.
  • 1 0
 Don't forget your taller seat height.
  • 7 0
 Trying to convince myself I need that much bike…
  • 5 1
 Being underbiked is so 2020.
  • 7 1
 Wow, a bike I would actually want to own, but would definitely buy offset bushing to raise the BB!
  • 7 1
 You can’t - if mounted opposite to make the shock longer and raise the BB, the offset bushes rotate due to the forces that make the suspension work and rotate in their “shortening” position - you’ll even lower your BB more.
  • 3 5
 @hitarpotar: You absolutely can and it will work just fine, unless you cannot clock them properly and put grease in places where it´s shouldn´t be. Oh, and also don´t use bloody torque wrench to tighten shock bolts to spec.
  • 5 1
 @Mondbiker: Torque wrench? Never have, probably never will! Big Grin
I've always used offset bushes the way they are meant - to shorten the shock.
  • 5 1
 @hitarpotar: they are meant to adjust geometry to your needs Wink No right or wrong way, just more often needed vs. less often.
  • 2 0
 @hitarpotar: I am in your group of people.. pI would like to know how to make it th eopporsite way and also have smooth functioning of the bushing.. altough there are some bushings that are interal with washer on one side and the other sie washer mounts on.. may be those work in any way by clocking them ?
  • 3 1
 @Mondbiker: i’ve seen the explanation several times on several different places: once you mount the offset bushes in any given way and start riding the bike, the forces rotate them in the “shortening and slackening” mode automatically.
  • 1 0
 @Lagr1980: don't know, i've only used offset bushes to slacken a bike. Never the other way around. Smile
  • 4 1
 @hitarpotar: than those places don´t know what they are talking about Wink not that hard to calculate what kind of axial clamping force your typical m8 shock bolt generates when torqued to very average 10nm. Hint- those 2mm of leverage that offset bushing in perfectly wrong position could have is not going to be enough to overcome over 7000N of clamping force. That is before you make actual contact surface rougher or use carbon assembly paste on them if you are extra paranoid. I used to run them in high setting in both eyelets, they never moved(not surprisingly).
  • 1 0
 @hitarpotar: Thats a good point I didn't consider, I agree the natural state of offset bushings will be in the slack positions as the forces on the shock will push the bushing hole towards the outside. But I kinda agree with Mondiker that it the bushing is perfectly aligned with the shaft, then the forces should be very minimal in terms of rotation of the bushing.

But ok, overshock or overfork the bike in that case. To be honest 350mm is the magic number for me, but on my bikes, with my tyres, you need something closer to -20mm BB drop to achieve that, and the bike having 170mm of travel would not reassure me.
  • 7 0
 Bingo, Kaz said coalesce again.
  • 7 0
 "Pedal strikes are always user error" - Levy
  • 3 0
 For me you are one of the best at reviews. So I have to ask for another review. Weather it's Transition or another brand that offers both a carbon and alloy versions of the same frame. Take lets say $5,000 us dollars as the budget for each bike. Build a carbon version and an alloy version and then compare. Specs of build can be what ever you can do in that budget. If it has been done before maybe I missed it. Is our money better spent on carbon frame or on better wheels and components? I do wish MFG's would let us pick frame and build separately.
  • 3 0
 Money is better spent on wheels and components. They have talked about it a few times on the podcast. If they had to buy their own bikes then they Would go aluminum with a better spec. I went carbon with the new scout and am switching back. I didn’t notice much of a difference between my carbon scout and aluminum patrol. Other people may feel differently though.
  • 7 4
 We need to have something to slot in between the 170mm and 180mm bikes. Something like super enduro, or downduro. I mean, 170mm is not enough, but I feel 180mm is way too much travel and too much weight. Come on industry. You already make 115mm bikes, why not 175mm to give me the best of both worlds. And it matches the length of my cranks, perfect!
  • 3 0
 The Geometron G1 has 175mm rear travel - problem solved Smile
  • 6 0
 Anyone heard from Levy?!?
  • 5 0
 Until now, the rule seemed to be 'no carbon for tall guys'. For the record, this is how big XXL bikes should be. Well done.
  • 7 0
 We're glad you noticed! The Spire should be a very well balanced bike for all you tall folk out there. Cheers!
  • 2 0
 @TransitionBikeCompany: I bought a Geometron G1 last year so I'm not quite ready to switch. But I'm glad there are more less expensive options for the other talls out there. Plus I like a new bike every so often so yeah Smile

Any chance of sharing what an XXL carbon Spire frame weighs with shock? My XL G1 is monstrous. Shaving off a few pounds might be the reason to switch.
  • 9 5
 Finally a bike with proper geometry numbers. Once you ride something like this, you’ll never go back
  • 2 2
 (Latest) Slash owner here, can confirm.
  • 5 0
 I'm in shock, it doesn't have a motor......
  • 3 0
 Was very confused by the wrong colours and names… glad Mike Explained it. Sick bikes. Way more than i need but i was an Spire anyway
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer As one of the I guess very few people who have ridden both the Spire and Kavenz's VHP16, how would you compare them?
  • 5 0
 Big ups to @TransitionBikeCompany for coming thru with the alloy model
  • 1 0
 It’s rare that I see a bike I’d run in the “high” setting and consider reducing the rear shock stroke on, but Transition seems to have done it.

Wouldn’t be a daily rider for me but I’d love to throw a leg over one and ride some steeps!!
  • 1 0
 I'd like to see how this stacks up to the Specialized Enduro. Similarly intentioned 170/170 travel Horst link bikes, and reach and stack numbers within 1-2mm of each other. Comparing high setting in size L on both bikes, the most significant differences are the Spire's head tube angle is 1.3 degrees slacker (63.0 vs. 64.3), the seat angle is 2.1 steeper (78.1 vs 76), and the ETT is shorter (605 vs. 644) The Spire also has 4mm longer chainstays and a 13mm longer wheelbase than the Enduro. The carbon Enduro frameset is $400 less than the carbon Spire.
  • 1 0
 Here on Pinkbike it says the carbon frameset is $3,299, but on Transition's website it says $3,399, so the difference between a Spire carbon and Enduro carbon frame is $500. But, I just realized it would be more fair to compare the Spire to the S-Works Enduro ($3,400), because both the S-Works and Spire have carbon swingarm links, and the standard Enduro ($2,900) has aluminum swingarm links. So comparing apples to apples, the Spire is the same price as the S-Works Enduro frameset. I'd say that's not a bad deal considering it's a boutique versus mass market frame. You can also run a coil shock without voiding the warranty on the Spire, so that's another point for the Spire.

$3,400 is a chunk of change, but both the Spire and Enduro are $350 less than the SC Megatower frame, which is now looking very long in the tooth compared to Transition and Specialized's offerings in this category.
  • 1 0
 That is a massive difference in top tube. Feel like a whole different world sitting and pedaling between the two.
  • 1 0
 @shark-jumper: running a coil on the enduro doesn’t void the warranty. you’re just spreading misinformation from a rumor that was actually about a different bike (stump jumper).
  • 1 0
 @moroj82: I emailed Specialized asking which coil shocks were compatible. Here is their response:

Hi there,

Unfortunately, I do not have info specific to what coil shocks work/fit on a 2020/2021 Enduro. We do not spec a coil on any models of the Enduro and have not tested the Enduro frame with any coil shocks so I cannot advise on this. Any riders out in the field that have installed a coil on their 2020+ Enduro have done so on their own volition. If a rider were to install a coil shock and some sort of issues arose with the frame's suspension mounts (IE cracking around the shock links, etc), it would not be covered under warranty.

Have a good one!

-Colin

***************************
Subject: Bike - Technical Specification # 04719163
Description: Hi, which coil shocks are compatible with the 2021 Enduro? I'm considering the Cane Creek DB Kitsuma, DVO Jade X, or Fox DHX2. Thank you.

ref:_00D15FMfu._5004R1iYeQE:ref
  • 2 1
 Transition ruined my life. I ride (and bitch about it the whole way)uphill and go small sag small travel cause pedal strikes suck ass. But one day the gang decided lift served for fun. I took the smuggler, vs the big boy giant glory dual crowns with coils, and tuned her with tire pressure, sag, and back off brake drag.
Instant GOD on on every run. That thing had some butch tires, big brakes, and was still cassetted for uphill. it changed my whole perception of mountain biking. Could do no wrong. Endless fun. Like mountain bike heroin. I felt bad for the others bangin on 45lb downhill rental rigs. I'm careful to stay away from a modern downhill bike now, Id be hooked for good. Meanwhile no enduro ive ridden since give me the same wings. Riding the old hardtail is a toil fest now. freakin diggin around in the bank account to get a transition...
  • 1 0
 I own a 2020 carbon on coil Patrol and it has transformed my riding and is by far the most fun I’ve had on a bike. Maybe I need to save up to add a spire to the collection. Can’t see myself buying any other brand having owned a few others: Trek, Whyte, Marin.
  • 4 0
 Pretty cool. Alu Spur please!
  • 4 1
 The steerer makes it easy to use an angleset. So basically you can get a production version of the grim donut right now!
  • 2 0
 Was the Patrol close enough to the Spire on the steep stuff @mikekazimer ?
I want to ride muddy rut tracks hidden in the woods and feel invincible on super-steep trails.
  • 3 0
 so if the spire frame has a flip chip that allows you to run a 27.5" rear wheel... what's the point of the patrol?
  • 1 0
 Exactly what i’m asking as well!
  • 1 0
 I didn't notice that - are you just thinking the BB height would allow it?
The ability to switch between mullet and full 29 would be great, but perhaps the Patrol's CS length is more suited to the 27in rear?
  • 2 0
 @chakaping: it´s mentioned in the article.
  • 3 0
 @Mondbiker: Spotted it now, thanks.
I reckon we need a geometry table for the Spire in mullet mode then - what d'ya say @TransitionBikeCompany ?
  • 10 0
 @boomforeal This was something we talked about a lot. Could these two bikes just be one? In the end, we all concluded that the sacrifices in geometry were too large to make one bike that could be both the Spire and Patrol. To us, the mixed wheel Patrol needed to feel super quick and snappy, so the shorter rear end was a must. As well as having the geo spot on while in mixed wheel mode. This meant we couldn't work in the 29 wheel compatibility, thus comes the Spire. Which allowed us to make that bike the best for it's purpose as well. The spire has the option to run a 27.5 wheel, but it does come at a cost to geo, HT will slacken, ST with slacken, and BB will lower. Those are compromises, but the capability is there for those that may want that. Our employee and athlete Hannah Bergemann has spent a ton of time on the Patrol, as well as the Spire with a 27.5 rear wheel. She loved the flickable, fun Patrol in the stock setup, but did also find she liked the Spire's extra CS length for helping keep the bike stable and controlled in rough, steep descents.
  • 1 0
 @TransitionBikeCompany: thanks for posting that explanation. when i originally posted my questions i'll admit i had only scanned the article at work and was hoping someone would point out an obvious answer. the difference between the bikes, at least for the size large frame, seems pretty minimal -- 4mm in the chainstays, 3mm of bb drop -- but in the other sizes is more pronounced. if the ride feel and handling was sufficiently different that you felt it warranted it wanted producing two different bikes... well, hats off for producing the bikes you figured riders would want
  • 4 0
 The Spire XL is practically my Geometron G-1 in XL. So, cooool!
  • 1 0
 I think mean XXL spire is the same. They are missing a XXL in the low chart it said "XL" twice. they are not that progressive but getting closer

XL reach is 510 for Spire and XL reach is 535 for G1

Lets not get crazy lol
  • 1 0
 @mtbynot: you are right, I was off by an X :-)
  • 2 0
 Mike, the bb drop and height are on par with a Megatower and other bikes. Was it the way it sagged that made it seem low or just ride impressions?
  • 3 0
 Was really hoping for an updated smuggler... especially in that huckleberry colour.
  • 11 0
 you mean a Grape Smuggler?
  • 4 0
 Frames Opening Day 2022

Transition Spire 1.05%
  • 4 0
 Cool bike, did they do anything about paint chips?
  • 3 0
 Will Fox double the warranty on those poor fork bushings on the ultra-slack Spire?!
  • 3 0
 OK! OK! Did I just hear that it has a 63-degree head tube AND it comes in a DOUBLE XL!
  • 1 0
 Kudos for publishing effective STAs (and, presumably, effective TT lengths?) for each frame size that are actually relevant to the size of the rider! I really hope the rest of the industry follows you on this.
  • 3 0
 Chris Porter was right....
  • 2 0
 so if you put a 180 fork on the spire, does it just “auto-wheelie” with the 62 degree head tube angle? Big Grin
  • 1 0
 I was looking for a Sentinel but went with the Enduro, hopefully the Patrol is available soon - want to test ride a factory mullet.
  • 1 0
 I'm seeing a seat tube that intersects with the down tube forward of the bb. A certain bike company that rhymes with folly is not going to like that!
  • 1 0
 Its impossible to purchase the last bike they released and they are releasing 2 more?
Why spend money on marketing for a product you cant even sell?
  • 1 0
 So you wait for this rather than buying something now, if you can find anything now.
  • 1 0
 That gap to the Grim Donut is closing down shockingly quick. Is it really a meme bike or is it an "aggressive rowdy trail smasher"?
  • 1 0
 Which geo numbers are accurate? The numbers posted in the PB article do not match the numbers on Transition’s site. PB’s number are ‘longer’ and puts me off.
  • 2 0
 Looks like front triangle is same on Patrol and Spire. Is it?
  • 7 0
 @tedchalk Neither of these bikes share any frame parts. Both were designed from the ground up separately
  • 2 0
 @TransitionBikeCompany: thanks for clarification.
  • 1 0
 Can someone clue me in to what is meant by progression in this article? Thanks.
  • 2 0
 Yoooo what about replenishing stock? Like the Spur.
  • 6 5
 Holy eff those chainstays are ridiculous. I was super excited until I saw that.
  • 2 0
 Haha, you should check out the banshee titan ;-)
  • 7 0
 The long chainstays and XXL size are why I'm most interested in the bike.
  • 3 2
 IMO you need long chainstays on a bike like this, to balance out the incredibly long front center this thing has.

Even with them it’s FC/RC ratio is still pretty high. It’s the same in size large as Transitions own Sentinel, the Norco Sight, and my Kona Process 153.
  • 2 3
 @adamdigby: The XXL is awesome, especially as legit XXL too. Plus, with the 1.5 headtube, the reach can be pulled out even further which is fantastic. However, why are companies limiting us with long or longer chainstays? All the of sizes could benefit from two chainstay options, especially depending on someone's location, height and what/how they're riding. Ditch the size-specific chainstays, PLEASE, and give us adjustable ones. Keep that long length and give us a shorter short. Here to party ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • 3 0
 Absolutely huge bike.
  • 1 0
 Companies seeing way to many claims and complaints with Carbon frames and components.
  • 1 0
 How will this ride on trails like the Wascan OHA near Regina. The geo seem almost Ideal for that terrain.
  • 2 2
 My sentinel, with a cascade link, and 170mm fork, would now like to be identified as a spire. If you call it a sentinel, I will accuse you of deadnaming...
  • 1 0
 Man. The cinematography that goes into these casual bike checks is awesome. Thank you @pinkbike!
  • 1 0
 What's the europe pricing?
  • 1 0
 Can i put a 190 zeb on the spire? Smile
  • 1 0
 @howsyourdad to ride with 27,5 wheels?
  • 4 3
 weird how chainstay lengths are growing and no one seems to care
  • 16 0
 Not true, I am absolutely LOVING IT.
  • 1 0
 @chakaping: just curious how tall are you and what size bike do you ride?
  • 2 0
 I am riding a 2021 Enduro with 442 chainstays. I think 450 is too long. And the wheel base on the Spire XL is a little too long for me.
  • 2 1
 @Kmccann137: I'm 5ft 8in and ride a large 2018 Orange Stage 6 - 460mm reach and 450mm chainstays. It works great for me.
  • 1 0
 It’s why I didn’t get the new Banshee Titan, maybe if I could actually test ride one before I wouldn’t be so Leary of such long CS’s...
  • 1 0
 @unrooted: yeah I feel the same way. I had long chainstays and for me the ratio that works best is 460ish reach to 430ish chainstay. I have had bikes that deviated from that ratio and they did not work out well for me.
  • 10 1
 @Kmccann137

IMO, Chainstay lengths should be viewed as a percentage/ratio of the front center. And because this bike has both huge reach, and a crazy slack HTA, this makes the front center pretty large.

I just did the math on its FC/RC ratio, and compared it to other popular bikes in the similar categories, because I was curious. For reference, its (Wheelbase - chainstay length)/Chainstay length. And larger numbers mean the rider has to shift their weight forward more actively to weight the front wheel.

All in Size L (or its equivalent, like P3, S4, whatever):

Transition Spire: 1.88
Specialized Enduro: 1.88
Privateer 161: 1.87
Norco Sight: 1.87
Transition Sentinel: 1.87
Kona Process 153: 1.86
Kona Process X: 1.85
Propain Spindrift: 1.84
GG Gnarvana: 1.83
Raaw Madonna V2: 1.82
RM Altitude: 1.79


Most of this is from a huge geo chart I keep as I learn about bikes I'd like to demo/maybe buy. So most of those are in their long chainstay settings if they have adjustments, as an FYI.

But that means even with its long chainstays, you have to actively weight the front end on the Spire MORE than all of those other bikes, just because of that super slack HTA.

Which is a super long winded way of saying "they may look long, but it looks like it needs them for balancing out the even longer front".
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: very interesting I feel like the overall reach of the bike needs to be factored in as well because that tells you a lot about what the body position would be in the attack stance and how easy it would be to weight the front end. I honestly think this is why some size large bikes are unblanced for instance the new meta am 29 reviewers said the large was unbalanced relative to the medium.
  • 2 0
 @Kmccann137:

Totally agree. The FC/RC number isn't all telling. But its been useful for me as I try to compare not entirely similar bikes, and try to wrap my head around the differences.

But you're right, you'd think a longer reach would naturally weight the front more as well. FWIW, all of the bikes I listed above have reach numbers in about the same range (470-490mm). So they should be fairly comparable, ish.
  • 2 1
 @ocnlogan: The new meta is 1.96! So that bike is definitely not right. The RM altitude has the lowest number and was ranked very high. This is very interesting. Even further interesting is my older META AM 29 has a number of 1.82 very close to altitude.
  • 2 0
 @Kmccann137:

Yeah, what I find is really interesting, is when you go through and read all the reviews on the various bikes, some trends tend to appear, even in just the language used to describe them. And often it seems to correlate with how well they balance.

Like the RM Altitude, Propain Spindrift, and Raaw Madonna V2 are often seem to be described as "easy", "confident", or "natural" to ride. While the Specialized Enduro, Privateer 161, and Process X (in short chainstays), as more "demanding" or "aggressive" bikes.

Have you read the enduro-mtb article on enduro race bikes, and how they were slower on bikes with more lopsided FC/RC values (like the new Meta AM)? I kind of assume you have, considering the comment, but figured I'd mention it just in case Smile . It may not be conclusive, but still an interesting read.
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: Yes read the article and completely agree with you. Also watched the video of the grim donut vs meta am haha. I wonder what the grim donut ratio is?
  • 1 0
 @Kmccann137:

I, couldn’t resist, and looked up the numbers real quick.

1409mm wheelbase, 450mm chainstays == FC/RC ratio of 2.13

And for reference an XL commencal Meta AM is 2.03. So the doughnut is out there, but we are pretty close on some bikes already.
  • 1 0
 Can the Spire be ran as a mullet?
  • 2 1
 I cannot unsee the spot for the motor on the Spire.
  • 1 2
 Ha indeed, much more than the other carbon bikes of the brand. I may wait a bit then Smile
  • 1 0
 Those alloy builds are nicely done...
  • 1 1
 Finally some longer chainstays for a more balanced ride!! Thanks Transition!
  • 1 0
 The Nomad everyone wanted. Nice one!
  • 1 0
 That Purple...dammmnnnn that's hot!
  • 1 0
 Any chance of a new Throttle being released?
  • 1 0
 Finaly nicer rocker arm Smile
  • 1 1
 I saw the carbon huckleberry spire in the wild last week, I wept @TransitionBikeCompany
  • 1 0
 Enjoy your spectral Thanee
  • 1 0
 Let's take a look at the patrol.... camera zooms to spire
  • 1 0
 These bikes look better every year
  • 1 0
 Why does the blue one say Patrol? But he keeps calling it a Spire?
  • 1 0
 the bikes got mispainted/labeled at the powder coater for the preproduction ones they rode for this article.
  • 1 0
 That patrol looks like a spire... even says "spire" on the frame.
  • 1 0
 Looks like a 2018 Norco Sight.
  • 1 0
 I want TR500 DH 29er!!!!
  • 1 0
 UK availability? Anyone know where to pre-order a Spire ally frame? Ta
  • 1 0
 The beut!
  • 2 0
 I felt a little bit uncomfortable ordering a Meta AM with that super slack HA.. Now I know that it isn't such a big deal but anyway, it's nice to know that there are even much more slacker bikes out in the wild
  • 1 0
 @pakleni: I ha 62.5, sweet!
  • 3 3
 Marin called, they want their angles back.
  • 7 2
 Except that Marin have stuck with reasonable chainstays. I always liked transition for having slightly shorter stays. Seems thats over...
  • 2 2
 @mtbtrekracer They also want their ridiculously low BBs back - what's with BB's going so low? on the low setting on the patrol, I wouldn't just be worried about crank strikes, but actual chain ring clearance on some obstacles.
  • 2 1
 @Richt2000: i Recently got an Alpine and it seriously blew me away.. you don't have to spend a fortune to have seriously good all-round bike.
  • 3 1
 @Thebluelion: BB Height is interesting, i think for bikes with low BB's they are ment to be ridden fast and not rolled over things that would generally hit it.
I've had my alpine for a little bit and it rails so hard, haven't hit the chain ring on things i've chickened out on.
  • 1 0
 @mtbtrekracer: I have the Alpine Trail 7 too! Same-bike fist bump!

The damn thing borders on a perfect bike with it's value, geo and versatility. The low BBs are about the only minor drawback - they do make you feel like a badass on the corners though,
  • 2 0
 @Thebluelion: haha nice, i have a XR. i love it.
  • 3 3
 @Richt2000: Why would you want shorter chainstays ? Doesn't make the bike more nimble, barely makes is easier to manual (BB height has more to do with that) and it makes it rubbish at cornering and keeping grip.
  • 2 1
 @Balgaroth: Really? Tell that to my buddy who rides a Switchblade.
  • 1 0
 @Richt2000: it‘s a matter of taste, i always skipped on the trannys because the chainstays were way to short. Although 448 seems to be really long, flip chip wouldn‘t have hurt them, but then who’d buy the patrol?
  • 3 1
 @CircusMaximus: The bike is probably good as it is but maybe he would like it better with longer stays ? The first bike I had with adjustable chainstays were my Nicolai M-pire back in 2006 and once I tried to go from short-ish to the longest setting I never went back to shorter. In 2019 I had the occasion to test this once again on the new GT Fury and also stayed on the longer setting. When you don't have the choice you ride and enjoy as it is but I know that I much prefer longer stays for the reasons I gave earlier, 15 years between my two opportunities to experiment, different wheel size and so on. So stay away from me with baby chainstays thank you very much lol
  • 2 3
 @CircusMaximus: Your buddy probably sucks at cornering.
  • 2 3
 @adamdigby: OK Mr. 20 year old! lol too funny. My buddy has been riding longer than you have been alive. Keep drinkin' the Kool Aid!
  • 1 3
 @Balgaroth: Hey man, to each their own. But blanket statements like the one you made are ridiculous. What works for YOU is different than others. Hence; choices.
  • 2 3
 @CircusMaximus: I don't see how the amount of time he's been riding matters, just means he's had more time to perfect his poor technique. Either way your buddy is definitely slower than me, a 28 year old who plays a lot of video games and doesn't own (and has only ever owned one for 2 months of his life) a pedal mountain bike.
  • 1 0
 @adamdigby: hahahahahahaha. I'm sure. Back to Mommy's basement you go.
  • 1 3
 @CircusMaximus: You really don't know who you're talking to, huh? I'm level 78, I've got 14,500hp, my battle healing skill auto-regenerates 600 points every ten seconds; we could stand here all day and you wouldn't get anywhere. But either way I'm a faster going downhill than your friend and 99.9999% of Pink Bike users like you, CLOWN.
  • 4 1
 @CircusMaximus: stay in your lane, CLOWN
  • 1 1
 @sessionman123abc: What? What is wrong with you people? Not getting enough hugs from Mommy? Sheesh what a bunch of a*sholes.
  • 4 2
 @CircusMaximus: im not the 50yr old dude that sits around at home commenting on PB articles. STAY IN YOUR LANE, get a job.
  • 1 0
 @sessionman123abc: hahahahahaha. I'm not the guy jumping into a conversation that has nothing to do with me. I'm not the moron telling people to stay in your lane. Wtf does that mean? The irony in your statement is hilarious. Thanks for making my day. PB never fails to show its dregs. Maybe take your own advice.
  • 1 3
 @CircusMaximus: I don't think you heard the man, STAY IN YOUR LANE. I'm faster than you and your friend and that's undeniable, clown.
  • 3 3
 @CircusMaximus: your twice my age, CLOWN
  • 2 0
 @CircusMaximus: well yes and no, consider this:
- 435mm chain-stays are probably appropriate for size S and M, bigger sizes need longer chain stays to remain in balance and aside from me preferring longer stays (I ride size L) it seems that the industry is starting to take this path of longer stays at least for the bigger sizes. While I could be wrong, assuming that a growing portion of the industry if also wrong seems ever so less likely.
- Take MX bikes and geos haven't really changed in the last 10, even 15 years and all the major players have bikes with geos within 0.5deg and few mm here and there so it seems that blanket statements worked out pretty well for them.

Once proper geo is figured out most brands will fall into the same thing and I bet you that now that HA, SA and Reach have been figured out the industry will now move on to proportionality of back/front end and across sizes.
  • 1 1
 @Balgaroth: we can agree to disagree. I do want to say “thank you” for discussing this like an adult. I respect your opinion.
  • 1 1
 @adamdigby: I can confirm this!
  • 1 1
 @hallio7: He's such a CLOWN, right!?! I knew others would agree.
  • 2 1
 @Balgaroth: @CircusMaximus after riding several bikes, if you have dumb long reach and slack as like modern bikes do and 29ers my size large 430 CS are a blessing, gives the bike back all its agility.

i have several bikes and it takes awhile to get used to some longer ones again as it requires more effort to get the bike to do anything..
29ers = short stays please.
27.5 go long because it works.
  • 1 0
 @mtbtrekracer: your BB height relative to your back wheel axle has more to do with that than CS length. My Bmx cruiser has shorter anything than my muleted Force29 and yet it is harder to manual or bunny hop. Same for my Octane One Prone 27.5 actually. I ride lots of hairpin trails too and never found that CS length has a significant impact on those.
  • 2 1
 @Balgaroth: thats great for you, but everyone else is different.
  • 1 2
 @mtbtrekracer: Wrong, Balgaroth is correct.
  • 1 0
 @adamdigby: climb back under your rock, asshat. Nobody gives a shit what you think.
  • 1 0
 Coooool!!
  • 1 0
 No X01 build?
  • 1 1
 That Huckleberry is Val Kilmer approved!
  • 1 1
 There are no pedal strikes in the bike park. Get it son!
  • 1 0
 Yes there are.
  • 1 1
 Why don’t they show the “super super steep” trails
  • 2 2
 Braaaaaap!!
  • 1 4
 Sooo, what’s different between the Patrol and the Spire? Spire is hald a degree slacker and can have 170mm travel with a 29er wheel???
  • 2 4
 Transition,

What we really wanna know is, when are you dropping your ebike?
  • 2 5
 Looks like a Pivot
  • 8 0
 but doesn't aspire to be
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