Mathieu van der Poel's Assault Convictions Overturned After Appeal

Dec 13, 2022 at 10:05
by Mike Kazimer  
Van der Poel is going to have to turn it up a couple notches come Leogang.

After pleading guilty to assault charges related to an altercation with two teenage girls that occurred in late September, Mathieu van der Poel's convictions and fine have been overturned on appeal.

The incident took place at a hotel where Van der Poel, 27, was staying before the road cycling world championships in Wollongong, Australia. The two girls reportedly knocked on Van der Poel's door and ran back to their room multiple times beginning at 10:40 pm. According to court documents, he “waited for the victims to knock on his door and chased them into their hotel room, following close behind them.” He then pushed one of the girls against a wall and yelled at her, before pushing the second girl against a wall with both hands.

According to The Australian, “Judge Ian Bourke SC said while Van der Poel’s actions would have been 'disturbing' for the young pair, it came as a 'response to annoying and invasive conduct' which amounted to a 'significant degree of provocation.'"

Michael Bowe, Van der Poel's defense lawyer, said, “He didn’t need a conviction, he’s a dedicated sportsman and cyclist. It’s really important these matters were dismissed.”

With the convictions overturned, Van der Poel was sentenced to a 12-month conditional release order (CRO), which states that he must not commit any offense during that timeframe, and must appear before the court at any time if called on during the term of the CRO.

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mikekazimer avatar

Member since Feb 1, 2009
1,693 articles

  • 268 7
 -Teenagers were being annoying - no one got injured -MVDP got a slap on the wrist Ultimately seems like about the right outcome.
  • 201 26
 except something should have happened to the kids for their conduct which started all this.
  • 74 352
flag slumgullion (Dec 13, 2022 at 10:45) (Below Threshold)
 @trillot, I think it did. An angry rich guy came out of his room and pushed them to the ground. Seems crazy to get that bent out of shape by kids being kids. It's baffling that anyone can defend Van der Poel's actions.
  • 48 19
 @trillot: meh. Being an annoying teenager isn't a criminal offense. I'm sure having their annoying exploits publicized in the global media was embarrassing enough to be sufficient punishment.
  • 200 42
 Getting slapped for being a turd was what kept kids in line back in the day. Lack of ownership is the new norm.
  • 19 16
 @Eatsdirt: yeah because kids never did this kind of stuff back in the day...
  • 343 341
 @Eatsdirt, I sure hope you don't have kids of your own. No one deserves to be hit / pushed for being an annoying child. It's gross how many people seem to think Van der Poel's response was justified.
  • 75 133
flag jsnfschr (Dec 13, 2022 at 11:45) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: This. I couldn't believe the reaction in the original article. Was absolutely blown away by how many people thought being an annoying kid was justification for an adult man reacting the way VdP did.

What a dumpster fire.
  • 200 23
 @mikekazimer: Two unsupervised morons ruined his chances of winning road worlds. It isn't every year that a Worlds course suits a rider like him, and he'd spent a lot of time preparing for it. I'm actually surprised he didn't totally lose his shit.
  • 34 118
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:01) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: so so so so so glad you said this
  • 21 39
flag jclnv (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:22) (Below Threshold)
 @GotchaJimmy: White nights LOL!
  • 37 102
flag bobbys13 (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:23) (Below Threshold)
 @Eatsdirt: I’m pretty sure the lack of ownership belongs to the grown man that pushed two girls to the ground and got away with it because he’s a so called “sportsman.”

Did anyone else have parents that taught them not to hit women, let alone children? Asking for a friend.
  • 146 6
 @mikekazimer: Let me preface by saying I don't condone the actions MVDP, I think his reaction could have been handled way differently.

BUT, we aren't talking about little kids here either. The article says teenagers, and teenagers are at least smart enough to have a conceptual understanding of right vs wrong.

I'm not saying action should happen to the teens. Depending on law, they might still be considered minors, however it was still VERY disrespectful of the teens to act the way they did. Where were the teen's parents? Parents need to be held responsible for not keeping control of their kids
  • 69 20
 @jclnv: He ruined his chances by getting himself arrested. If he'd called the front desk and had hotel security deal with it, he probably could have gotten most of a good night's sleep. The kids were 13 and 14. He's twice their age. Laying a hand on them was incredibly stupid... Even if they were being incredibly stupid.
  • 20 6
 @ryetoast: Agreed. His actions were in my opinion wildly inappropriate. VDP is a character that is in a high position, and needs to be held to a certain standard if he wants to keep his position...but I still revert back to my original question...where are the teen's parents? Along with VDP punishments, the parents should also be held responsible for their child's actions.
  • 22 5
 @mikekazimer: I suppose it's a question of age of legal responsibility. No one should be hit for being badly behaved but teenagers are often extremely manipulative and violent (barely a week seems to goes by in East London without a teen being arrested for a stabbing murder). However, if he'd taken time to think about it, I'm sure there was a better way to deal with it.
  • 38 4
 That's what you do as a kid. You annoy someone to get a reaction, nearly get caught. That's when it is game on. The fun is in almost getting caught, but trying not to get caught. If no one chasing you or calls police or other authorities, that spoils it. You accept being reprimanded, yelled at, get a hit. Not getting killed, not getting severely injured, nothing expensive damaged, that's one step too far. These girls chose it just right. They took their chances, they got what they knew they were risking. If that happens, you're going to own it. Then if your parents (or other adults) get involved, they'll surely think that the other adult would have had to maintain himself. That's all good. But that's also when you all get together and talk things out. Getting the whole law-thing in there is just silly. No one learns anything from the situation. There is no better way to develop some understanding for the other person than to just sit down and talk to each other.

Let's make a comparison. You see some kids smash a big stick on your car, then run away. Come back, smash one rearview mirror. Run away. Come back, smash the window. Run away. Come back, puncture the tires. Run away. Best reaction: Call the police, inform them about the situation and wait for them to arrive at the scene whilst the kids drop by every few minutes and smash another part of your car. And you know you really need that car tomorrow for something important. Well, that car (or the repair if it isn't totaled) is probably still cheaper than the preparations towards that race. The training, the logistics, all the support people... Yet go ahead and have this experiment with the car. See how often these kids will be chased and when caught, might sense a bit of a push.
  • 5 31
flag sunringlerider (Dec 13, 2022 at 13:20) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv: sounds to me if this truly ruined his chance at a world title it’s his fault for handling the situation the way he did. Your telling me that if you had a chance to will a world title you wouldn’t spend a few extra bucks so you could have a room where you wouldn’t be disturbed?
  • 27 6
 @mikekazimer: you're right. He should have got a lawyer and filed a civil suit for the monetary value of a world champ title over the course of his career.

A lifetime of poverty is way better than a temporary physical consequence.
  • 40 63
flag KingPooPing (Dec 13, 2022 at 14:11) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: Discipline Mike. Sometimes a kid needs me hit upside the head and a hand smacked a time or too. Getting the belt once is usually all it takes.
  • 116 69
 @KingPooPing, nope. Smacking kids or hitting them with a belt aren’t acceptable forms of discipline at all. It’s wild this is even a topic of debate.
  • 39 3
 Had this happened 20 years ago, it likely wouldn’t have even made the news.
  • 42 4
 @mikekazimer: Did he actually hit one of them? Or are you considering a push the same as a punch?
  • 48 15
 @mikekazimer: So there are no penalties for acting stupid these days if you're under age... got it. We're talking about teenagers, but if you want to diminish the issue by calling them children I guess that would be technically correct. What's really gross is the lack of ownership in all aspects these days, starting with parents.
  • 83 57
 @Eatsdirt, no physical penalties for acting stupid? Correct. I don't believe that physical harm should be a means of punishing children or teens.
  • 34 1
 Where were the parents during all of this?
  • 1 2
 @smokingtires: we did it once. No repeat.
  • 54 5
 I'm just over fifty. Did I get a smack when I was a naughty? Yep. Did I learn real quick not to be naughty? Yep.
  • 60 12
 @mikekazimer: That basically means if parents don't do their job, the rest of the world has to deal with their failures. Got it. OWNERSHIP.
  • 25 4
 @bobbys13: he didn't actually push them to the ground as you say. Those kids are lucky they weren't in my family, that shit don't fly. Unsupervised children being little shits in a hotel, their parents should have gotten fined
  • 10 1
 @slumgullion: pushed then to the ground you say? Where did you get that bit of information?
  • 8 1
 @weebleswobbles, the article that's linked to in this one says this:

"Van der Poel chased the girls, causing one of them to run into a corner and crouch down while covering her face. The cyclist ran up to her and grabbed her by both arms, squeezing them and pushing her against a wall while yelling at her, causing her to suffer a minor carpet burn graze to her right elbow and redness to her left forearm.

Van der Poel noticed the second girl trying to leave the room and pushed her against a wall using both hands.

'The girl fell to the ground and the accused left the room and went to his hotel room,' court documents said."
  • 27 3
 @slumgullion: OK I missed the part past "pushed against the wall" regardless of it sounds like a result of shitty parenting. None of it would have happened if those girls had been minding their own business and respecting other hotel patrons. That was the parents responsibility.
  • 44 31
 @mikekazimer: My three year old through his dinner plate across the room once. I smacked his ass and told him to sit in time out. No dinner for him. He hasn't thrown his food since.
  • 31 9
 @mosierman: the softies will say you could have got the same result by talking to him.

  • 53 4
 @mikekazimer: Pretty sure if I'd been one of those kids, my concern would have been the serious butt whipping my dad would have dished out to me when he found out what I did. The physical punishment would have been followed by an in person apology which would have been accompanied by tearfully begging him to forgive me.

I'm 64, and for sure I grew up in a different era, but kids today definitely need more discipline in their lives. I don't think you have any experience dealing with kids, judging by your comments. I don't think those girls got anything but a small lesson from MVDP, and hopefully they act a little less like the entitled a-holes their conduct proved them to be.

You want to rip someone, I'd start with those girls parents. If their kids are running wild at 2:00am they are not involved enough with their kids.
  • 8 3
 @fabwizard: haha.. yeah that's we tried the first three times.
  • 19 42
flag srh4508 (Dec 13, 2022 at 20:37) (Below Threshold)
 Wow, there are some real candidates for parent of the year on here. There are very few reasons why you should ever hit a kid, and the examples above come no where close to justification. If you use physical violence on a kid when they mess up, they may not do it again, but it's because they fear the repercussions of being hit, not because they actually learned why what they did was wrong.

Next time your kid messes up, keep your anger in check, get on a knee down on their level and calmly ask them why they did what they did and then explain why it was wrong. Most kids act out because they want attention. If you would take the patience to learn how to reason with them you might find the root of the problem, and then you would learn how to help them in the future, and they would gain an understanding of why their misbehavior is wrong actually making them a better person; instead of their understanding being based on fear. There is a certain way to talk to kids, and talking to them like they are adults doesn't work. If your kid can't listen to reasoning then they are probably under 2 yrs old, and under no circumstance ever should you hit a kid that young.

I grew up in a very rural town, where spanking and other backwoods form of discipline were common to kids I knew. I can tell you first hand that those kids who experienced serious physical discipline mostly turned out to be bullies and a lot of them didn't amount to much in adulthood, or were even lucky to make it there.

Teaching through violence is not the answer, except for martial arts classes where the goal is to learn to be a badass to protect those you love from evil. There are few cases where I could see a good spanking being the answer, but those are rare. Those instances being if I ever found out my kid hit a girl, physically threatened/hurt another kid, or something extreme along those lines.

I'm not saying you shouldn't discipline your kids, but maybe reevaluate your methods. I remember when I messed up as a kid the worst punishment I learned from was having my snowboard taken away for an entire season. I didn't learn a damn thing from a slap on the rear.

In the case of van der poel, yes the girls were wrong to annoy him. But he is an adult and they are kids. Let alone girls at that. They were likely just flirting with him in the way that some teenage girls do. I was raised to respect women and my fellow man, and unless someone is trying to kill you or physically harm you there is usually no reason to lash out physically. When a fight presents itself, 9 times out of 10 it's better to be the bigger person and disengage from the situation. A grown man pushing teenage girls is disgusting. He could've handled it another way. Hopefully he learned from his mistakes. Maybe someone should give him a good spanking.

Also to all you people who think they had things figured out in the good ol' days, look at the world around you, things are going wrong too quickly. Obviously what you believed in isn't working out.

Just offering my two cents. Not going to tell you how to raise your kids, that's your problem. Maybe do some research though. There is a lot of good free information and tips out there. You can downvote me all ya want. Do better.
  • 12 21
flag all-knowen (Dec 13, 2022 at 20:59) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: the amount of downvotes on this.....yikes
  • 27 15
 @mikekazimer: try not being a sensationalist, we have enough of that these days , a) nobody got hit and b) you / we don't know WTF happened...basing your opinion on "according to court documents" is meaningless, we don't know the laws of said country, we don't know what he admitted too either.

Sounds like the court got it right, justice system seems to work....
  • 17 4
 @srh4508: Cool story bro, but he didn’t hit a kid.
  • 15 22
flag jclnv (Dec 13, 2022 at 21:51) (Below Threshold)
 @all-knowen: Pleased to see that a rational interpretation of events has prevailed over hyperbolic, wokeism.

You have to wonder how many self righteous people are typing on devices that have used cobalt in there manufacture. Cobalt mined by African child slave labour. The hypocrisy is stunning.
  • 23 28
flag YukonMog (Dec 13, 2022 at 23:07) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: Mike you are absolutely completely correct.

I'm totally baffled and more than a bit worried about comments on here.

Half the comments essentially condoning violence towards minors.
With the excuse being it's because the guy is an athlete?!
  • 8 18
flag YukonMog (Dec 13, 2022 at 23:09) (Below Threshold)
 @mosierman: are you proud of that?

3 years old? You are a bully. Seems good ol' unprogressive USA is leading the way in unprogressive parenting based on comment location and opinion here.
  • 12 25
flag eldsvada (Dec 13, 2022 at 23:29) (Below Threshold)
Wow, you’re a real hero!

Abusing your children is always the lazy bully’s approach to parenting, nothing to be proud about.

Any person with average intelligence can quickly research this and conclude there are no benefits to be had from abuse, the only result is broken and dysfunctional minds.

Here in Sweden child abuse has been banned by law since the fifties (with an extra clarification in the seventies explicitly stating that any abuse intended as disciplinary is forbidden)

This is also the case in most other European countries, but as usual USA lags behind a bit. Come on people, get with the times!
  • 13 2
 @slumgullion: Thanks for the quote. But did he actually hit them. If not, why keeps everyone talking about hitting kids. Doesn't seem relevant for the situation at hand. The linked article is a bit weird though. Why do they publish three pictures of his partner?

Either way, the publications appear a little single sided, which make it useless. It is clear what caused the rider to act the way he did and it is also clear that he acknowledges that he didn't make the best decision when tired, annoyed and stressed. Now, the other side. Why did they do it, what reaction were they looking for, what did they expect? I'd like to know. Because every kid of 8 years and older knows what spectrum of outcomes you can expect when you act like this. A bit older and you also know what's legal and what is not. If you consciously push someone in a direction where you know people are likely to pass the limits of what's legal (which already includes that the suspect verbally threatens with physical violence) and you have no other more sensible outcomes in mind, you're very wrong too. So that's the point where you're going to own it. You know you've been pushing someone to go a step too far. That kind of limit seeking definitely fits the age. But owning the outcome is part of that too.

But before I fill that all in, let's have their response. Why were they doing it and what outcome did they expect?
  • 9 21
flag bulletbassman (Dec 14, 2022 at 1:20) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: wasn’t expecting to lose a little faith in humanity today Jesus the comments in here are terrifying
  • 6 9
 Like he couldn't call the room service and report the issue. That what most of us would do. Can't imagine myself chasing annoying teenagers down the hotel corridor. Madness.
  • 7 9
 @eldsvada: i guess that's why sweden is such a sh*thole
  • 1 0
 @ryetoast: God, thank you for saying it.
  • 18 3
 @srh4508: sometimes kids need to be frightened, and even experience pain and fear.

Why? Bacause the fear is good as a factor to keep them safe.

They don't understand consequences of a truck hitting them, or that intentionally harrassing strangers can result in a reaction that would harm their wellbeing.

Placing fear (even through pain/discimfort) as a factor for kids to think about before engaging in that activity again is an evolutionary factor.

It is up to parents to properly identify scenarios where to employ the fear.
And ir is up to parents to not allow others the opprutunity to have to parent their child.
  • 13 2
 @slumgullion: kids being kids??? No, I was never an a*shole and most of my friends weren't either. They knocked on his door multiple times to disturb his sleep. Sure, let's let "kids be kids" and not responsible for their actions or shitty upbringing.
  • 4 13
flag srh4508 (Dec 14, 2022 at 5:50) (Below Threshold)
 @GoranNaVAjt: Running into the street is a totally different situation than someone bragging on a public forum that they smacked their kid for simply acting out. I've seen the effects of taking that kind of discipline too far. Ruling those around you through fear isn't the way to go about it. You're right though, to each their own to decide what's works for best for their families.

Still, poel shouldn't have ran out of his room and pushed those girls. They weren't right to annoy him, but that's not how he should have reacted. Hope he learned his lesson.
  • 3 0
 @GoranNaVAjt: No, again we need their word (reasons, expectations) to make complete sense of all this. But if I reflect upon myself, the reason to annoy/push/trigger an adult is for the thrill. I think it is very natural for a kid to identify your fears and push them. That's how you progress. I even think that evolutionary, overcoming your fears triggers our reward system which is our main natural drive to do something. So short term, sure. You scared them, they found the limit they were looking for and that's where it stops for the time being. And that's where as a kid you evaluate what just happened. How bad was it? Was it worth the rush? Would accept this again? Would I accept worse? Frightening or hurting someone is the lowest level of motivation. "I only don't do this because otherwise someone else..." It makes your actions very dependent on the actions of others and only what you think of that. Next level would to only reward good behaviour. "If you don't knock on my door, I'll give you a cookie." This works for training animals and for little kids up to 7yo. Some people stick to that but kids over 7 years old are capable of much more by then. Until then, they primarily think about themselves and what is important for them, from then onwards they can think of others in their vincinity. 14yo onwards, on a much wider scale. They need help, but they can get there with guidance. Which is why I think both approaches are missing the point. The whole court thing as well as the expectation that threatening or physical violence would be the way to go. Violence was a consequence of their actions, not the solution. By which I mean to say that being able to contain yourself when harassed is an advanced adult skill. You need to think brightly. This skill doesn't quite work if you're half asleep and stressed. Same goes for drunk people though you'd say being drunk is a conscious choice whereas there isn't quite something (desirable) against being sleepy during sleepytime. So that's why just having a talk afterwards (suspect, girls and their parents, maybe a mediator to keep things in check) would have been so much more valuable. To learn and to understand. The court thing? In the end, everyone lost.
  • 1 1
 @font style="vertical-align: inherit;">font style="vertical-align: inherit;">jclnv/font>/font>: le is smárolhatod Levy MVP-t
  • 3 1
 @tremeer023: dude are you seriously comparing ding dong ditching to f*cking murder
  • 6 5
 @srh4508: we can all agree that he should not have done this. And we can all agree we reacted in a way, in hindsight, shouldn't have.

We probably differ on the reasons why though.

Amnesting teenagers for provoking a reaction is completely inappropriate.

As I stated in a commwnt below, Van der Poel, with his reaction, may have saved those kids lives. If they pulled those pranks on a drug trafficer, abuser, or just a loose cannon, we would habe a different headline.

They will think twice, and that is part of upbringing. Having a connessour saying "calm down girls" probably would not have that effect.

He can't be a parent and take their snowboards, phones or ground them.
  • 5 8
 @weebleswobbles: the original article says he pushed one to the ground. A grown man followed 2 teenage girls into their room and pushed them up against a wall. Not f*cking cool. VDP was an ass before this
  • 17 20
 @mikekazimer: i hope you don't have kids because someone else will need to slap the shit out if them since you won't
  • 8 10
 @RadBartTaylor: the dude followed 2 teenage girls into their hotel room with nobody else there, pushed one down which left a rug burn on her elbow and slammed the other against the wall. We do know that happened. How the f*ck are people defending that
  • 1 2
 @eldsvada: it’s absolutely illegal in the us
  • 18 13
 @mikekazimer: its okay Mike this is pinkbike not vanity fair you don't need to send out the virtue signals
  • 3 1
 @mosierman: Jesus Christ the kid was 3
  • 4 1
 @GoranNaVAjt: I understand where you're coming from. There are some nasty people out there who you don't want your kids to come across.

The teens don't deserve amnesty, they should have to face the consequences as well. Both parties were in the wrong.

Ultimately, the parents shouldn't have been absent and allowed their young teenage girls to run rampant in the middle of the night harassing people, but that doesn't mean they should be taught that through physical discipline.
  • 8 10
 @srh4508: especially by somebody they don’t even know. He has no place disciplining somebody else’s kids, much less following them into their room while their parents aren’t there and pushing one teenage girl to the ground and slamming another against a wall. The VDP circle jerk is insane. I don’t care what people’s views are no public figure should act like this. I’m glad that his actions f*cked up his race.
  • 3 3
 @peterknightuk: good point, also provides an even better reason not to follow 2 teenagers into their room and assault them
  • 4 0
 @olafthemoose: that is not what the court documents say. But feel free to fuel your anger.
  • 2 0
 @olafthemoose: "court documents state".....before any of us cast judgement we'd need to understand both sides.
  • 6 7
 @DetroitCity: exactly, how else do you get your kid to behave at the super Walmart will you are drunk on Bud Light.

Or how else would you get you kid to climb in your Z71 with out slapping the shit out of them.

Favorite past time is taking the kids to the bowling alley then beating them when they want to go home. I mean what other way is there to teach em? I mean what better way to prove your mountain bike skills online than to brag about beating your kids.
  • 4 3
 @olafthemoose: this is exactly how rumor's and mis-information get started....go read the article(s) and try harder next time.
  • 2 1
I'm basing this on the wikipedia article on the subject, which seems to clearly state that it is legal anywhere in the states?
"Despite opposition from medical and social-services professionals, as of 2022, the spanking of children is legal in all 50 states and, as of 2014, most people still believe it is acceptable provided it does not involve implements."
  • 4 21
flag DetroitCity (Dec 14, 2022 at 8:04) (Below Threshold)
 @sunringlerider: I dont have kids bro. Because I would not be allowed to slap the f*ck out of them when they get out of line.

Too many woke crybabies like Mike kazier have infiltrated into the lives of others and somehow set the standard on how to raise a child, without kids.

I'm forever grateful my mom and dad slapped the f*ck out of me when I needed it. Probably saved me from way worse.

So my mom and dad slapped me, I did drugs and drank alcohol as a teenager, I went to prison as a teenager and as an adult. Yet I've never been violent to anyone outside of a street fight.

Goes against all the woke propaganda. I should be out here drunk beating my kids and starting bar fights. Instead I haven't drank in 22 years, don't have kids because they are trash, and have never had any incidents of violence. How ironic
  • 2 0
 @sunringlerider: "Now the murderers and the rapists they go in this fiery lake
As well as most of the politician and the cops on the take
And all the mothers who wait till they get to K-Mart to spank their kids
And instead of showing what to do what's right
They just hit 'em for what they did
And all the daddy's who run off and abandon their daughters and sons
Oh, anybody who hurts a child is gonna burn until it's done"

Conversation With The Devil - Ray Wylie Hubbard

@olafthemoose: they're certainly on van der's pole
  • 8 0
 @Eatsdirt: Teenagers are always going to do stupid things regardless of what parents tell them. Speaking from experience here. The girls probably didn't understand the seriousness of the situation for VDP but it's their fault and have to face the consequences, that being: you mess with someone, they get pissed.
  • 5 4
 @mikekazimer: RETWEET inexcusable behaviour from a so called role model. Pathetic that this comment got so many down votes
  • 8 7
 @mikekazimer: yeah wtf, why do people think it’s okay to beat children.
  • 8 8
 @skwatt: They don’t. Next.
  • 12 5
 @fabwizard: softies? I'd be surprised if you could last an hour in my boots.

It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you fall on, laying hands on a kid is rarely acceptable, except for very few reasons, and in my opinion the guy your trying to defend isn't justified in his actions.

I don't care if I get all the downvotes this site can dish out. Being soft is going along with the popular opinion despite knowing deep down that you're wrong. Real men stick up for those who can't defend themselves. There is a big difference between that and those who think they're "real".

But you do you and we'll see who's kid is more successful when they grow up. Cheers!
  • 7 2
 @olafthemoose: Yeah, three-year-olds push boundaries, they test you to see what they can get away with. It's your job as a parent to teach your kids there are limits. It can be emotionally difficult to discipline your child, no one likes scolding there kid. But if you don't establish clear boundaries they will never learn what boundaries are.

Well behaved children aren't born, they are made through good parenting.
  • 8 0
 @mikekazimer: how would you have dealt with it Mike?
  • 5 1
 @mosierman: Yes I agree that you must set boundaries and discipline but you can set boundaries and discipline without spanking. Most child psychologist agree that most spanking is not particularly effective and may also change kid's behavior for worst.

Not spanking a kid doesn't guarantee them to be doomed to be a rule ignoring a*shole. I was never spanked as a child and managed to never get in trouble with law or drugs, got good grades in school and have good job making good money.
  • 8 2
 Speaking as a former teenager, the adult version of myself would have been justified in giving the teenage version of myself a swift kick in the pants pretty much hourly.
  • 4 0
 Some things don't make sense.
1. 13 and 14 year old girls alone in a hotel? Wtf where are the parents?
2. Vdp chased them into THEIR room and pushed them? Wtf Extremely bad judgement on his part. What if dad brother or friend wants to defend them and fight get way out of hand? Pushing a girl in her hotel room could have been easily construed as worse than simple assault.
  • 4 0
 @Intense4life: with the benefit of a perspective and hindsight, I would have called the front desk and my team manager.
  • 2 5
 This whole thing reeks of Europeanism.
  • 3 11
flag suspended-flesh (Dec 14, 2022 at 20:33) (Below Threshold)
 @slumgullion: If that's real data, MVDP sounds like a bit of a dick. A man doesn't lay hands on females of ANY age unless they have a loaded Glock 29 pointed at their head (that model has no manual safety).
  • 6 0
 @suspended-flesh: Sorry, not everyone is a firearm connoisseur. If someone aims something at you that is not clearly NOT a gun, most will treat it like it is. Including the police. That is something kids need to learn and understand (through a discussion, which the police is very willing to have with any kid just to avoid a sad traumatizing situation for everyone). And just to be very clear, I'm not suggesting that this was the situation here. He shouldn't have touched them or even have entered their room. I'm pretty sure that if the suspect would have entered this chat, he would have said the same. It is just that there can be a difference between what is the right thing to do and what you end up doing when tired, annoyed hence can't think clearly. I'm not defending his actions. I'm saying there is this human element that when humans (or even well trained animals) can end up in situations where they perform actions that can't be defended. It isn't the question of what was right or wrong. It is the question of what could be done to avoid the situation in the first place.

Where I do seem to disagree with lot of us here (aside from the fact that we really need the girls' explanation and expectations as I mentioned a few times above) is that I don't think fear is a good guide to train someone to do the right thing. That's the lowest level of motivation. Ideally as you grow up and develop, you learn to overcome your fears. if it was merely your fears keeping you from doing bad stuff, then what will happen if you no longer have this fear? Do you think that criminals haven't seen enough punishment in their youth? It is funny, I don't punish my girls. Never have hit them, hardly raise my voice if they've done something wrong. We can just have this conversation. And a conversation isn't: just me talking. They need to reflect. What made them do it? What were they expecting? What could have happened? What was it like for the other person? What do they need from this not happening again? Kids can reflect on that. You can have this conversation with any kid of 7 years and older. Sometimes other kids come over and of course they sometimes do something they shouldn't. All good. I ask them what they're thinking and for my girls that's enough. Not rarely do you see the other kid think or whisper to my girl "oh, that wasn't too bad, I think we can try again." Which is where my girl goes "No, we really should stop now. We can't act like we don't understand."

I would even go as far as to say that possibly those parents were very strict. They would have punished their kids if they would have seen them act like that. Now they weren't in the hotel, there was no fear and with that, there was no reason to behave. Really, they're 14yo already. You can't raise them through punishment and then in few years time, dump them into the world and hope they'll do equally well when there is no fear for punishment. Yes it is a little late but they still need to learn to get beyond that lowest level of motivation.
  • 5 8
 @Hayek: nothing says justice like a grown adult male who’s a professional athlete assaulting two teenage girls. Something tells me mvps response would have been different if it was six foot tall 200 lb teenage male at the door.

If he ever makes it to snowshoe he’s going to regret the signs I’ll get people to hold on the broadcast.
  • 3 2
 @bulletbassman: so, you do you convey a message to somebody that is repeatedly provoking you, and then running away?

Do you have any options then to run after them?

And face them/stop them from moving to tell them to stop?

Because, they repeatedly knocked, and ran away.
And then he waited at the door and ran after them.
  • 7 14
flag irafd (Dec 15, 2022 at 4:46) (Below Threshold)
 @GoranNaVAjt: so many commenters here are supposedly worried about child abuse, but i'd bet most of them would be fine with forcing vaccinations on children, forcing them to wear masks and isolate them from other kids.

but scolding an annoying teenager is somehow child cruelty and should be criminal... got it
  • 4 1
 @irafd: No, you completely missed the point.
  • 3 4
 @szec: no, i didn't. you missed the point of my post, but i'll let it slide
  • 11 5
 @GoranNaVAjt: call the cops. Call the front desk. Put in some ear plugs and turn on the shower. There are dozens of ways to solve this without throwing a temper tantrum. I’m not saying mvp deserves anything more than a fine and maybe some community service. But he shouldn’t have it dismissed based on his celebrity. He was in the wrong far more than a couple teenaged kids. All I know is if mvp comes to snowshoe I’m tempted to throw a rager outside his hotel room and we’ll see if he acts less threatening to a grown male.
  • 2 0
 @irafd: I'm against hitting kids and against forcing vaccines. Yea you missed the point.
  • 3 4
 @irafd: Very well said. The hypocrisy is hilarious.
  • 3 1

Throw a rager to keep him up and boycott the fact you don't like what he did even though you don't know the details? Aka being passive aggressive - a grown male Alpha move, right? Jeezus.
  • 1 1
 @irafd: Do you also let your kids go out not dressed warm in winther or let them play on a busy road? Btw, if you haven't vaccinated your kids you are putting them and others in danger.
  • 3 2
 @bulletbassman: Yeah, that's cool. A grown adult trying to keep another person awake? What's wrong with you? if those kids were adults he should have punched them in the face. You want to go around pushing people buttons like that? You are a child.
  • 9 7
 I've already wasted enough time trying to share facts on why violent discipline isn't cool, so now I'm going to be blunt. This is something as a rad dad, and my wife being a nanny to other lil ones, that I feel strongly about. Crazy how justifying child abuse or hitting women is even a topic of debate.

If you take it too far with your kids it's going to seriously mess up their mental aptitudes. First they will see violence as the norm to get what they want, monkey see monkey do. They will probably suffer depression. Worst case they'll be a school shooter or kill themselves. I know harsh, tugging on hearts strings of anyone who has kids but your discipline methods is how that kind of thing starts to get molded. Playing baseball as a kid, one of the kids was subject to the belt almost every day. As a 10 yr old he threatened to climb the elementary school roof and shoot the coach and our entire team because he didn't like that he had to do laps after hitting another kid. Fortunately that never happened. Others subject to the same repeated violence are no longer here, either by accident or on purpose.

Not saying you shouldn't discipline your kids, but there are other forms of it where both you as a parent and your children will come out better people for it. Do some research, but I can tell you it works because my lil 2 yr old dude is the coolest lil shredder you could ever meet and I'm extremely proud of him. Already says please, thank you, apologizes to others when he messes up, and respects other kids by not putting his hands on them unless for a hug or high fives.

Being a batsh!t crazy conservative isn't any better than being a batsh!t crazy liberal. Put aside your differences, keep an open mind, and stop yelling at each other spewing vitriol. There is good and bad on both sides, and educated calm debate is how we come to the best solutions for our world. Sad to see the direction political brainwashing is taking our world. United we stand, divided we fall. Universal law of mankind folks.

And for all those who seriously think beating women and children to keep them in line is cool, Jesco has a special club in hell for you where you can all fondle each other and talk about the good ol' days.

Finally this is a mtb'n site! I'm sorry to say that I share the same hobby as some of you idiots. It should all be about spreading positivity through good times in the woods with your friends.

Peace y'all! See ya on the trails! "Sign of the horns"
  • 9 1
 @srh4508: No one on this comment section has justified child abuse or beating women. Some people just don't agree with you and think that a simple spanking is not child abuse. MVDP didn't hit any of these kids, read the article. Telling people that they are going to hell because they spank there kids is ridiculous. It's great that your kid is so wonderful. My kid has received a spanking and he is a cool little shredder to. He loves his parents and wants noting more than to follow his dad around. It's not a all or nothing type thing. A simple spanking is a lot different than a belt or paddle or a beating. Comments like yours do nothing except push people farther into there own corner.
  • 1 2
 @jclnv: Completely agree.
  • 2 1
 @mosierman: get a sense of humor JFC. I'm not going to waste my time at a world cup on some dude I'm not a fan of.
He should've punched them in the face? Are you a neanderthal?
  • 7 3
 When you’re in a restaurant with your twelve year old son and he decides it’s the perfect time to test some boundaries. If words don’t get the desired effect in the desired time of five seconds or less, a clip round the head most likely will.
It’s not child abuse, it doesn’t really hurt, but it does create a mental reset. All animals do it to their young because it’s innate and it works.
I don’t condone beatings, repeated hitting, anything that leaves a mark; but I absolutely back every father’s right to hit his son when he sees fit as long as he’s not one of those sadists who just enjoys hurting people.
There are many different shades between the extremes. It’s a shame so many people see life as binary.
I also regularly fight my son for fun. I consider it to be a form of training so that when someone wants to start something at school he will be able to make a good account of himself.
Man skills. Men need man skills to get shit done.
  • 4 1
 @mosierman: Even if mild, still violent. If you want to kid to "learn" from a spanking your going to have to hit them hard enough for them to feel the pain. Highly doubt a slight tap on the rear isn't going to get the result your looking for. You were the one glad about spanking a 3 yr old for tossing a plate right? You can spin it any way you want man to make yourself feel good, but I disagree with your method. Unless you doubt science, there is a ton of research out there showing the negative effects of even a mild spanking.

Ultimately absent parenting is the worst thing anyone can do, and to be a good parent requires a ton of patience to not stoop to low levels.

And yes some people in this thread were taking it farther than just a slight spank and needed to be called out.

Poel layed hands on two young girls to keep them in line, and that is wrong. I know they were also in the wrong, but that is the lowest level anyone can stoop to. The outcome for his trial on the wrist is laughable at beat. It sets a bad precedent that if someone just annoys you you're justified to push them too the ground.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: Wresting and teaching other forms of self defense to stick up for yourself an others is an entirely different topic. I'm all for that.
  • 3 3
 @jaame: but we also hold a higher consciousness than animals. Going to primal instincts for punishment is not the right answer.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: primal punishment should be reserved to pedophiles, murderers, rapists, and the like. Those types get off way too easy these days. Blood eagle for most of them as far as I'm concerned.

But when it comes to raising our kids, nurture and reasoning should come first before laying down the fist. This is how we move forward as humanity for respecting each other in the future.
  • 6 3
 @srh4508: I never said I was glad to spank my kid. I actually said the opposite. You can disagree with me all you want and you can link as many "scientific" articles you want as well. Seeing other comments on here, I know that other people agree with me. You do you and I'll do me. OK?

Also, I don't think MVDP grabbed those kids to keep them in line. He was pushed to the limit and it was a response out of frustration. What lesson did those kids learn? That they can push peoples buttons until they snap and then they can just call the police and have that person arrested? Is that right? Is that what we want kids to do?

Teach your kids that for every action there is a reaction. If you yank on a dogs tail is it the dogs fault if it turns around a bites you? Everyone and everything has its breaking point, its better to teach kids that early on.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: the firearm content was a bit of a joke, M8 - but that Glock is scary.
  • 3 2
 @mosierman: we must respect the science. Except chromosomes. That’s a bunch of BS.
  • 7 1

"What lesson did those kids learn? That they can push peoples buttons until they snap and then they can just call the police and have that person arrested? Is that right? Is that what we want kids to do?"

That is exactly where thing are going these days, being a victim after initiating's sad, it's been a thing the last 5 or so years...
  • 2 2
 @mosierman: I misinterpreted your comment then. Saw the "haha" as more of a brag than a nervous laugh. The blunt comment wasn't necessarily meant for you. Moreso to get the point across to those on the extreme side of argument.

100% agree teaching for every action there is a reaction so kids can navigate risk throughout life.

Did you see the video and the marks left of the young teen girls? Yes the parents and the girls were at fault as well, but when real men's buttons are pushed by young teenagers they don't resort to pushing them on the ground or wall. Especially girls. He could have removed himself from the situation. MVDP is acting like a spoiled brat, and you just compared him to a dog which seems accurate in this case. I don't care if he is a professional athlete or not. The justice system tends to favor those with the most cash. It wasn't the right outcome, and after this he is a horrible example of a good sport.
  • 3 0
 @srh4508: you don't know the facts man - it's hard to truly get a sense of what is right or wrong based strictly on what the media is "reporting".

I guarantee there is more to the story and many variables to be taken into account....maybe he called the front desk, maybe the girls dad was putting them up to it, maybe he tried confronting them but they ran off, do you think he knew they were minors, do you think he knew they were girls when he ran after them, maybe they tripped and skinned elbow, etc. etc.

The court knows more than we do and law is very grey and nuanced, I highly doubt the courts would just let him off for being an athlete, Australia is very liberal, I'm sure all facts were considered and they likely got this one correct.
  • 2 2
 @szec: no, i take good care of them. they're up to date on their vaccines, except for the experimental clot shot being forced on us for the last couple of years.
  • 2 3
 @RadBartTaylor: True I don't know the whole story, but the video is hard evidence of his reaction. I know how fast the eyes transmit data to the brain to process the world. It takes less than a split second to realize they're young and female. No excuse there.
  • 1 0
 @bulletbassman: Dude I had your back but 'Neanderthal' is not used as an insult these days - it's the " That's so g@y" of 2023..... A lot of us claim 'Thal according to 23&me, etc.
  • 1 2
 @srh4508: It hurts me more than it hurts him. We obviously both love our kids and just want the best for them. Ride on.
  • 1 1
 @mosierman: Not doubt. Ride on brother!
  • 6 1
 @toast2266: True, but if you're being an annoying teenager you should expect to get punched in the face a few times! Keeps annoying teenagers from becoming annoying adults!
  • 6 0
 @srh4508: You basing you opinion on a stupid, blurry video that doesn't show him doing anything except running after them? Doesn't show him pushing, hitting or holding against a wall, weak.

Again, jumping on the woke train based on assumptions you state as facts.....running after somebody in a dark hallway doesn't immediately result in knowing gender or age, that is 100% a fact.

Go read all the reports if you are this vested in the story, lots of them, some in dutch....many of which don't paint the same picture EDUCATE yourself on the matter, it's more nuanced than you are making it out to be.
  • 1 1
 @srh4508: oooooo I really want to start a poop storm lol.

Do you really think a pedophile has any more choice in who or what they are attracted too than say someone who is gay or straight. Think of it from their point of view, they did not choose to be attracted to children it is just how they are wired. Can you imagine your whole life being attracted to a group but never ever being able to feel the same joy we as straight(and getting toward LGBQXYZ) can in our relationships. It must be a living hell. And yet they are vilified by society instead of given our sympathy.
Let the debate begin

To respond to you last sentence, this would require the younger generation currently growing up to have the same respect, which is what the heavy handed commenters seem to feel they are missing because of the lack of corporal punishment. We are in a weird loop here. While I don't believe spanking is the best answer I do understand where they are coming from.

How about open discussion on how we get past this point in history where children seem(at least on the internet) to have zero respect for others and toward this grand idea where there is no more war/violence/hatred/inequality.
  • 1 2
 @srh4508: Dude, in many cases I doubt you could tell the difference between a 14 YO and a 18 YO in a long look let alone a split second. 14 YO girls dress to look like 18YOs.

Also to the people who keep saying where were the parents. At this age, at least in Canada they can babysit themselves.
  • 3 1
 @fabwizard: I'll have to double check with my girlfriend (who's a sexologist) but from of the back of my mind I recall pedophilia is a paraphilia, which implies the person is attracted to unnatural "objects". These can be objects but also children. This isn't something a person is born with, but typically result of a sexual trauma. Yes these people don't have it in their own hands and need help indeed.

Don't put this in the same context as homosexuality. Which is natural, people (and animals) are born with it and which is as harmless as heterosexuality.
  • 1 1
 @vinay: If it were a result of sexual trauma or born with it, neither would be their fault correct?

So not the same but similar for the point of argument?
  • 1 1
 @RadBartTaylor: "The group of girls had repeatedly rapped on his room door on the ninth floor of the Brighton-le-Sands Novotel on Saturday evening, even though his girlfriend, Roxanne Bertels, had asked them to stop.

van der Poel waited for the girls to knock on the door of Room 930 again, between 10.40pm and 10.50pm, and then opened the door and chased them..."

Did some more research in articles. Sounds like he knew who they were prior to charging them.
  • 1 2
 @fabwizard: Yep, and I think that was written halfway my post. I just don't like paraphilia being used in the same context as homosexuality as even though they are very different, in some (I think Russian or Eastern European) propaganda they're being mixed up. Not because of your post, but because of that propaganda (and the horrible discrimination and marginalization that goes with it) I'd like to make it very clear. I'm not accusing you of not seeing the difference.
  • 4 0
 @vinay @fabwizard: I can't say for sure if they are born with it or if it's induced by trauma. But what I can tell you is my mother in law is a social worker, and she spent some time in the pedophile ward hoping to help turn them. She is the nicest lady in the world, and for her to come back and say that there is no redemption for them speaks volumes.

It's sad if it's not their fault, but just because of that they shouldn't be let loose to the general public. It's like letting a dog loose in a hen house or giving heroine addicts free access to drugs. And if they are convicted of giving in to their pedophilia, then absolutely no second chances should be allowed. As hard as it is to accept, some mental illnesses have no chance of recovery. I hate getting those letters in the mail that say a convicted child molester is living up the street, but at least it's public knowledge.
  • 2 2
 I'm all seriousness though this is my last comment on here. I don't do social media or anything like that because I think it rots your brain. The only reason I even left a message on here was because I got fired up that people are trying to use the MVDP thing to justify beating your kids. 1. Lack of discipline from the parents was the first mistake. 2. That discipline shouldn't include violence. There are other ways that are more beneficial. 3. MVDP over reacted, and if he did lay hands on those kids and hurt them he got let off too easy. 4. People, put your political differences aside and use open minded debate. Keep egos in check. United we stand. 5. This has been fun. See y'all on the trails!
  • 1 1
 @srh4508: yea you can't ever hit women.. have you seen how they fall?
  • 3 1
 @srh4508: Again, you are jumping to conclusions, you may be may not be....I think it could go either way. They were knocking and running, do you think his GF had a face to face convo with them? Doubtful.

Again, who knows, but taking a hard stance and making absolute judgement based on you filling in 50% of the story isn't fair.
  • 2 1
 @srh4508: Yup, I'm not going to summarize what I said but I think I have said what I wanted. I'd rather meet you sessioning a fun section of trail than spend more time in this discussion. Cheers!
  • 3 2
 @RadBartTaylor: is his girlfriend smoking hot do you reckon?
  • 76 14
 While he clearly overreacted and took a course of action that no one should defend/recommend, the provocation also needs to be addressed. While he deserves some punishment, what those girls did was ridiculous. They knew what they were doing, they were doing it to get a reaction and then had the gal to go and cry about it when he reacted negatively? Cmon, what the hell did they expect? Hold people accountable for their actions, both him and the girls. I'm sure their parents are very proud.
  • 6 71
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:03) (Below Threshold)
 Nope. You're wrong
  • 38 3
 @GotchaJimmy: Haha alright. Good chat. Bet your kid would cry VICTIM if he pushed a kid and got punched in the face as a result, and you'd support it by crying foul with him lol. MVDP was absolutely in the wrong, but so were those girls for being asshats.
  • 3 36
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:38) (Below Threshold)
 @wilsonians: I don't have kids?
  • 19 2
 @GotchaJimmy: Because you're still basically a kid. Got rack up some mileage points in life before you spout off with your definitive opinions LOL
  • 58 3
 @Dustfarter: I must admit, when listening to the PB podcast where the two Mike's and Alicia were discussing it first time round and extolling the virtues of how not to discipline children my first thought was 'who better to give parenting advice than 3 childless extreme sports fans'. Lol.
  • 48 41
 @tremeer023, I’ll extoll the virtues of kindness all day long. Just because I don’t have kids of my own doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about raising them.

I’m extremely disappointed in the toxicity in this comments section, more so than usual.
  • 31 4
 @mikekazimer: the virtues of kindness and a simplified view on incidents like this don’t solve anything. Having your blinkers on and pretending that only one party in an interaction bears responsibility is the problem most commenters on here appear to have with your (and your similarly minded supporters) reaction to this topic. To constantly bleat nothing but "there is no reason to hit a child" is not constructive. You can't resolve a social problem with blanket statements of moral superiority and ignorance toward significant aspects of the entire interaction.

I'm extremely disappointed by the inability of supposedly functioning adults to consider more than one factor when forming a contentious opinion.
  • 10 1
 @tremeer023: an outsiders perspective on a topic is often more valuable than that of the "experts" who are blinded by their halos of complacency. Just because someone doesn't have children doesn't mean they can't see if you're doing a good job of parenting or not. Many parents appear to have no f*cking clue. You don't have to be clever to breed, unfortunately.
  • 7 7
 @mikekazimer: ha, sorry for the 'diss'. I don't disagree with you. The PB comment section is often a bit toxic. I think most of it here comes from the slightly older (over 40) generation who think they are suddenly being labelled as bad parents when that isn't necessarily the case. Getting a smacked arse for misbehaving and doing the same has been the norm throughout time and just another part of parenting (Scotland made it illegal in 2020, Wales in 2022. It is still legal in England if it constitutes 'reasonable punishment').
A little education goes a long way though and attitudes are slowly changing, which is good. Kids always copy their parents. If you hit your child, they will hit someone else.
  • 5 7
 @mikekazimer: you’re dead right.
  • 3 1
 Yeah but what they did isn’t illegal????????
  • 7 5
 @st-alfie: So... what is a good reason to hit a child? IF you limited it to things like spanking, the only person who should be using it is the parent. Even then, research tells us that corporal punishment is not an effective method of managing behaviour. It does not teach a child how to act properly. At best, corporal punishment has only a temporary effect on behaviour and can make it worse. Not only does it reinforce some problem behaviour, but also it teaches a child that physical force is the way to resolve conflict.

Here in Canada, it is against the law to use physical punishment on kids under 2 and over 12. In Australia, where this all went down, it is lawful to use physical punishment, but only by parents or caregivers. Still no excuse for MVDP.

In this case, BEST excuse that everyone is making for MVDP is that he lost his temper and reacted out of anger/frustration, which isn't the time to use corrective/physical force in any situation.

NO ONE is saying what these kids did was okay or that they shouldn't face some kind of consequence, but MVDP reacted like a child.
  • 5 0
 @DetroitCity: now THAT'S toxic.
  • 2 3
 @tremeer023: its supposed to be. It kills stupid
  • 3 1
 @mikekazimer: What it does show is that there is a broad spectrum of how people believe children should be raised.

Who is right or wrong we will find out in 30 years when their kids grow up.

Half the population blames poor child/youth behavior on not spanking and half blames it on spanking.

I think your kindness viewpoint trumps them all though. Always try kindness first.

I wouldnt be dissapointed. I would be inquisative. Why do people feel this way.
  • 14 1
 @jsnfschr: in the same situation that it's OK to hit anyone, if swift action is required to prevent someone endangering themselves or others. Someone lunges at another person with a knife for example, knock that f*cker out. Child, adult, mentally disabled, it doesn't matter.

There is a stark difference between condoning MVDPs actions and understanding them. To acknowledge that provocation was a factor is not support for violence. To disregard that people's actions have consequences, rightly or wrongly, justified or excessive, is beyond stupid and will never solve the issue. You can choose to analyse an interaction and learn from it, or you can choose to finger point from your pedestal and change nothing.

This event should serve as a reminder that we can't control how every individual will react to a given situation. The best we can do is consider the potential outcomes and choose our behaviour accordingly. Just because something shouldn't happen, doesn't mean it won't if you encounter the wrong person at the wrong time. To teach children that they can antagonise people without fear of repercussion is not the solution. Thats not the world we live in. Teaching them that if you play with fire you might get burned, so choose your behaviour wisely, would be far more beneficial to their futures. Being a victim does not necessarily mean your choices didn't put you in harms way.
  • 3 1
 @st-alfie: well said, I wish this was at the top of the comments section....

What is the general sentiment in Australia about this?
  • 7 2
 @RadBartTaylor: I don't know, I'm a Kiwi.

In NZ the general sentiment appears to be much the same as you see on here. Woke culture makes more noise than logic and reason so it is unclear whether the emotion trumps reality crowd is now the majority, or they just get more exposure.
  • 3 0
 @st-alfie: sorry - mistook that tiny flag next to your name....Smile

The reason I ask is culture can drive a lot of outrage but context matters....something like this happening in Russia, lets say, would probably not make the news...
  • 3 1
 @RadBartTaylor: I can't say I ever saw this make news outside of cycling media. Cycling gets minimal coverage here , a small amount for Kiwi riders and events but not much beyond. In my experience, general Aussie attitudes on most topics are similar to ours, if anything a bit more vocal.

The general attitude shown on pinkbike toward personal responsibility and selective interpretation of a story such as this is well mirrored here.
  • 4 3
 We're getting sidetracked debating pros and cons of physical discipline with our own children. We are NEVER allowed to touch someone else's child
  • 4 2
 @HughBonero: noted. If I ever see a child about to step in to traffic I'll be sure to remember not to interfere.
  • 8 1
 As soon as someone uses the word 'toxic' and it isn't in the same sentence as 'chemicals', 'waste' or 'Avenger', I stop listening.
  • 2 2
 @iamamodel: sounds pretty toxic mate
  • 3 2
 @jsnfschr: the wild thing is the sentiment that physical confrontation is justified because he had a bike race
  • 9 1
 A few observations from this thread:
There are a lot of youngsters commenting who have been little shits, copped a smack and didn't like it.
A lot of commenters have been hit by their parents/have hit their kids and believe it's done the job.
There is a time and place for smacking kids, but not other people's kids. He didn't smack them though and they weren't his kids, so I don't relly understand where the talk of smacking one's kids came from.
Those girls deserved some discipline from their parents though.
If Martin did that to my daughter I would have probably lost my shit with him... but she wouldn't have done it because she has been brought up to know better that to do something so c*ntish. Where were the parents anyway?

And by the way, he assaulted them, but they provoked him by assaulting his ears repeatedly. One could say they asked for it. It seems that common sense has prevailed because that's pretty much what was decided according to Australian law. Bravo, Australia.
  • 2 0
 @iamamodel: Ha ha ha. Toxic assualt on children.
  • 1 2
 @jaame: "There is a time and place for smacking kids" F your time and F your place. You're an old git.
  • 59 6
 I’m ok with teenagers getting pushed and held and yelled at for repeatedly harassing someone who is trying to sleep. They weren’t injured and he is not a threat to society. Hitting someone is an entirely different scenario and that would merit punishment.
  • 4 74
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:03) (Below Threshold)
 Nope. Wrong
  • 53 1
 Don't ding dong if you can't ditch!
  • 45 4
 Too many of you in here are softer than puppy shit.

Don’t f*ck with strangers. Or you’ll find out.
  • 43 11
 Girls got what they deserved for being little shits. They know what they were doing and he was preparing for the World Champs so I get why he blew a fuse. We now live in a world where people largely don't seem to be held accountable for their actions or when they are they play the victim role. Refreshing to see judgement go this way.
  • 4 63
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:04) (Below Threshold)
 Give up mountain biking
  • 11 2
 @jclnv: gotcha jimmy!
  • 30 2
 This story and the Will Smith story, very interesting to see the variety of opinions people had. Sounds like Mathieu went overboard but those teens also sound like huge assholes. One of those stories where everyone sucks lol.
  • 27 2
 When you're a parent and the noise outside your hotel door wakes up BOTH your toddlers in the middle of the night... Same levels of rage.
  • 29 4
 This is a good out come for Mathieu van der Push. Deserved to be acquitted.
  • 2 52
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:04) (Below Threshold)
  • 30 4
 @GotchaJimmy: Nope, you're wrong.
  • 32 10
 “ The convictions and fine came after an aggressive response to a 'knock and run' prank.” really disappointed in the accusatory and leading tone in this statement @mikekazimer the girls REPEATEDLY knocked on his door late at night the night before the race. This was obviously targeted at him to throw him off his game or cause exactly what happened. To say it was a “prank” implies it was a one off incident and he lost his shit immediately. This was no prank. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
  • 13 41
flag mikekazimer Editor (Dec 13, 2022 at 20:48) (Below Threshold)
 It’s still a prank, no matter how many times someone knocks on a door. And it’s not a leading statement or accusatory if it’s true.
  • 21 4
 @mikekazimer: it is not a prank if world championships are the next day and this is your life goal and in the end - job that pays the bills.

Sleep for race is essential.
  • 22 3
 @mikekazimer: Mike, please read an above comment from @st-alfie who sums up our frustration very well. These simplistic statements of yours do nothing to help develop this conversation. Is it not possible that both parties bear some degree of responsibility in this situation? That maybe both parties could be in the wrong? It seems like the Judge (who you'd hope was well informed on the incident) was able to acknowledge this fact. The huge amount of down votes your comments receive would suggest that they might be a little out of touch.
  • 9 0
 @mikekazimer: when does a prank become become intentional harassment? at what age cognitively are kids old enough to know they’re intending to perform an action? you’re acting like he slapped these girls. he restrained them against a wall.
  • 3 8
flag jsnfschr (Dec 14, 2022 at 8:13) (Below Threshold)
 @moroj82: He chased them into their room, pushed one down and held one up against the wall. In what world is it okay to chase someone into their hotel room, let alone children? If MVDP was walking down the street and these kids were throwing sticks at him and he chased them into their house and did the same thing, would that be acceptable? I don't care what my kids are doing, if I find an unfamiliar, grown man in their hotel room, he's going to have a bad time.
  • 29 4
 the ref always sees the retaliation, not necessarily the provocation
  • 4 66
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:04) (Below Threshold)
 Wrong. Also fuck you
  • 9 1
 @GotchaJimmy: I don't see how there is anything wrong about that. The ref does always see the retaliation. That doesn't make the retaliation correct.
  • 5 41
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:39) (Below Threshold)
 @93EXCivic: He's justifying laying a hand on a child because of "provocation" by a child. Easy stuff here pal.
  • 7 1
 @GotchaJimmy: It sure sounds like he is saying that MVDP should have known better to me.
  • 3 0
 @GotchaJimmy: here you are preaching about how people should raise their own kids but yet to resort to a big old "also f*ck you" when someone has a differing opinion. Maybe your parents should have been a little more heavy handed w you maybe you would have learned before this
  • 5 0
 @weebleswobbles: from what I've seen so far in this thread, a spanking probably wouldn't have done much to fix @GotchaJimmy. Birth control and abortion are the likely the only tools that his parents could've used to avoid unleasing that level of f*ckery on the world.
  • 22 2
 I love all these folks that think the kids did nothing wrong-lol. Here is another thing wrong with this country- no one is held responsible for things that they do.
I was a firefighter for 27 yrs in a big, busy city. We would get 911 calls from the same people several times a day. Try being in bed sleeping, then going to a call for a stomach ache at 10PM. No big deal its our job. But then you go again at midnight. And again at 3am. Same person. I wanted to do more than just push them, believe me. That bike racer is a saint if you ask me. Did the story say just how many times they banged on his door?
  • 18 2
 For the safety and well being of your children, please teach them not to f*ck with strangers.
Where I grew up that type of $hit might get you killed. If I was every caught doing that as a kid it wouldn't be the push against the wall I would fear, it would be the back side of my dads hand.
  • 16 1
 For real, it seems like no one is acknowledging this important part. We can say violence isn't ok all day long, it still exists and isn't going away. You mess with the wrong person and you can lose your life, even over dumb stuff like knocking on someone's door. You never know if some crazy wacko is having his worst day ever and he's going to take it all out on you. I've seen rich kids who'd never been told no before meet someone who didn't take their shit and they were mind blown. It's a lesson kids need. Violence isn't ok but there are crazy people out there who don't care. It's a huge risk you take when messing with someone you don't know.
  • 4 14
flag YukonMog (Dec 13, 2022 at 23:11) (Below Threshold)
 And you grew up to then hit your kids (your above post) see how this works?
  • 9 1
 @YukonMog: Yeah, I grew up to a respected person who shows respect to other people. I've never been in a fight in my life. I have beautiful wife, two beautiful children and a respected job. I have a great and loving relationship with my mom (raised in single-parent household). Same goes for my wife. I only remember a few of the spanking I received as a kid, but the ones I do remember I know I deserved.

Get off your high-horse.
  • 14 1
 I have two kids and have never hit them, and probably never will, but I did push them to the wall. Once your kid does intentional harm to others to test the setting, talk doesn't cut it. They need to unserstand that if they do harm to others that it is not acceptable, by something that will resonate. MvdP may have actually saved those girls from bigger harm. They could continue with this with an athlete or a person that would really have them harmed. They won't do this again. He is a racer and this was world championships. Imagine you preparing a board of directors presentation for 4 months, got ready, flew to other part of the world, and then teenagers punctured your car tires and you didn't make it. Teenagers are not 3y olds and are very aware of what they are doing.
  • 19 2
 i dont blame him
  • 13 1
 Lots of referrals to these girls as children.

Does anyone actually know the ages?

Two teenagers with a hotel room suggest they may be 18/19 to me and thats old enough to know what they were doing.
  • 5 5
 If I remember correctly, I think they were around 13? So children.
  • 5 5
 Read the linked articles? They were 13 & 14 according to PB, although one was twelve according to The Australian. Anyway, kids.
  • 4 6
 @mi-bike: no I didn’t read the attached articles as I then would not have asked how old they were.
I thought I would ask here as I was sure someone would know.

If they were 12, 13 or 14 then he was out of order.
  • 4 1
 @cypher74: When I was 14 I had a full-time job. By that age I had outgrown most of the behaviors that got me punished, sometimes physically.

I had the greatest parents in the world, I thought that as a kid, I still think so. When I was punished the end result was that I was ashamed, both of my behavior, and even more that I had made my parents feel bad. I'd have walked through fire for Mom and Dad, and in retrospect I probably deserved a lot more punishment than I actually got. I for one, am very grateful that my parents cared so much about us kids that they spent all of their time and energy making sure we got the best start in life they could give. We were poor compared to most of the families I knew, but I was the only one who's parents really spent most of their time with them.

Loving your parents is not mutually exclusive with them showing you a little tough love when it's called for.
  • 15 3
 Lots of talking but no one was there. There are always two sides of a story. Seen teenagers grown up with no respect. If this is the new norm i feel sad for mankind.
  • 11 2
 Girls were a-holes. I would have pressed 0 on the 'ol bedside phone and said two a-holes keep knocking on my door, get security up here immediately. They'd hopefully respect someone in management without anything physical happening. Now if this were to happen on someone's private property, at home. Then perspectives I think can change a bit on what is acceptable.
  • 3 0
 That's the obvious answer....but wondering if he did or tried? I don't see anywhere in the article stating if he tried the desk or not. He very well may have, but WTF are they going to do about it.....MVDP may have no clue who they are or what room they are in.
  • 3 0
 @RadBartTaylor: Yep, he may have tried...not sure but I'd like to know.
  • 11 2
 MVDP could've handled the situation better, but if you were the one laying in bed wide awake because someone's knocking on your door, and you know you have to get a good nights sleep in order to perform the next day, emotions of stress and frustration are obviously festering, so in the moment it's hard not to freak out. So yes, it would've been better for him to call the front desk or something like that, but I can't honestly say for myself that I would've reacted any differently in the moment. It's a situation that 90% of people would've reacted the same way because emotion is always processed before logic.
  • 1 0
 Good night’s sleep: $1M
Shit night’s sleep: $0

I wonder if they were paid by one of his competitors. Has that angle been investigated?
  • 13 1
 continually waking someone from sleep is a form of torture. just let that sink in.
  • 4 2
 it's called "enhanced interrogation"
  • 3 1
 @nyhc00: imagine if the story had been about Mathieu water boarding the teens, oh man lol.
  • 2 1
 @DylanH93: "This is MVDP and welcome to Gitmo"!!! *then the Jackass theme song mysteriously plays in the background
  • 2 1
 @nyhc00: "welcome to my black site. There are no rules here.."
  • 14 2
 This is why people just shouldn't have kids. Lol
  • 1 1
 If only your parents had that attitude.
  • 12 4
 @mikekazimer: Try knocking on your neighbor's door once an hour all night long to find out if it is just a prank or a crime.

In the United States, here is one of the examples given for the offense of "Disturbing the peace":
"Knocking loudly on hotel doors of sleeping guests with the purpose of annoying them;"

It is a misdemeanor, which means it carries a potential jail time penalty.

Responding to a crime with a crime is wrong, but you are minimizing the initial crime.
  • 17 26
flag mikekazimer Editor (Dec 14, 2022 at 10:24) (Below Threshold)
 Right, the kids should go to jail for being annoying. Got it. It was in a hotel - they have front desk staff and security for a reason.
  • 9 2
I didn't say the kids should go to jail, obviously they haven't even been charged or we would have heard about it. I posted this just to point out that society has deemed this sort of behavior to be quite problematic, and deserving of significant punishment. It doesn't fit the connotation of "prank".

Also, I'm sure you know your closing argument is BS. It is exceedingly unlikely that a hotel will station someone outside your door in the wee hours to prevent this sort of thing.
  • 10 1
 @mikekazimer: There's a juvenile hall for a reason Mike. It sounds like you will give minors a pass on everything, even breaking the law. Gotta say that's how kids wind in juvie, then later on, adult jails. For a young guy with no kids I think your perspective is short sighted. Those girls and their parents should be facing some kind of legal difficulty, if for no other reason than to hold those irresponsible parents feet to the fire. Who knows, if they start being better parents their kids might still have a chance of being the kind of people who don't think harassing strangers is entertaining.
  • 3 1
@mikekazimer :
Both parties behaved poorly. Unfortunately for MVdP, he had no good options. The first step when faced with this sort of behavior is to ask the offending party to stop, which his girlfriend did (according to reports). The only available next step is to call the police. Of course, if he did that, then he would have to wait for them to show up, if they showed up. Or, they would tell him to come to the courthouse or police station and file a report and an investigator will look at it when he has time. Nevertheless, MVdP should not take matters into his own hands the way he did. Yes, in the real world a pair of brats can ruin your season and you have no recourse. Having the misfortune of crossing paths with them is like having the misfortune of a tree falling and breaking your leg. Bad luck and there is nothing you can do about it.

And, really, the behavior and attitude of at least one family was bad. From one of the fathers:
“We went to the hospital on Sunday and I’m taking her to the psychologist because she’s scared,” the father told The Daily Mail Australia. “She’s worried she’s in trouble and has done something wrong because some people are blaming her and me, saying it was the girls’ fault and I’m a bad parent, but it was the school holidays. What kids at that age are going to bed at nine o’clock?”
Yes, sir, she has done something wrong, and there is a large gap between "not going to bed" and ruining other peoples' nights.
  • 11 0
 I got to ask
Anyone talk to the parents of the teen girls?
  • 18 2
 Court and police did, so model parents indeed. Instead of attneding to their kids behaviour (grown up enough to stay in their own room), they called the police for assualt.

Parent's message to kids - do what you want, no worries. Until they knock on the wrong door, and then it is curtains.
  • 9 2
 Another day in the life of humanity - a couple of teens act like brats and an adult fails to live up to the highest ideals. It probably happens about 7 billion times per day on planet Earth. If the important lesson is learned that actions have consequences, a brief scare, a minor carpet burn, a lost opportunity and some hefty legal expenses seem like a small price to pay.
  • 9 3
 Kids now days don't understand boundaries because they don't have boundaries. Shut down the brat behavior when they are young. It's for there own good. They will be better people later in life. If not, they will enter the real world thinking that no matter what they do they are the victim.
  • 1 1
 Shut up. Don't breed any further.
  • 8 3
 Thank god they didn’t kick him or spit him or pushed him ,or turned against him ,that could be be very bad. But I can’t understand this teen protection blindness,so they are smart people for some things but in bad behavior their are just teens ,one thing is behaving stupid and yes you just walk way ,another thing is becoming stupid ,then you just start to get them in order(not in a stupid way),but imagine if some teen start to kick you and try to beat you ,what are you gonna do?fight back?it is a very fine line ,I was a teen and done some stupid things ,I wasn’t afraid of no one no Mather who they who’re or age ,but I knew if I mess with someone older ,and I got pushed ,slap or worst ,in the end in most situations it was primarily to my teen defiance,I’m against VIOLENCE ,but people saying that don’t give a slap in the but or hand in child’s ,when their are being stupid and stubborn,what are you saying ?let them do whatever ?be what careless?different philosophy of what education should be ,that’s all
  • 1 0
 I wish these girls would have fought back and kicked his fragile, spandex-ensconced, ass.
  • 10 3
 LMAO! The judge probably saw how physically delicate the roadie was, and concluded there's no way he could cause physical harm on a teenage girl.
  • 2 1
“Those peashooter arms couldn’t beat a drum. And please, cover up those awful tan lines. My eyes can’t take much more.”
  • 1 1
 @jaame: hahahahaha!
  • 8 3
 @eldsvada: Spanking is child abuse? Your too woke for me.
@YukonMog: progressive parenting? WTF is that, letting your kids do whatever they want without any repercussions?

This is the result of progressive parenting, two brat teens banging on hotel doors in the middle night. Two progressive parents instilling a sense of victim-hood in them.
  • 1 1
 Sounds like your youth was devoid of excitement and you became a conservative douchebagge
  • 13 6
 Good outcome for him. Now he can focus all of his attention on working up to hitting 3 foot drops.
  • 4 0
 I'll ask the same question I asked when the original article of the incident came out: where was the hotel staff/security? where were the handlers/team managers/etc in all this? Why was an athlete in the middle of an important competition allowed to come in contact in this manner with these individuals?
  • 3 1
 Yes ,and ages of 12/3/4 ,and he chase them to their door? ,so no parents ?what a bizarre story ,but no teens but if true children,just call their parents to reason their child’s
  • 12 5
 Did he try slapping that ramp that annoyed him at Olympics too?
  • 5 2
 Lewis: Angela, there are a couple of teenagers knocking on my door, I can’t sleep.
Angela: OMW, I’ll take care of it, go back to sleep.
Lewis: Thank you.

8 hours later

Angela: morning, it’s race day.
Lewis: Good morning, how did it go with the teenagers?
Angela: Don’t worry about it, you want the Yellow helmet or the rainbow helmet?
Lewis: k, rainbow one please.
Angela: Got it.
  • 6 1
 If someone is deliberately annoying you, they won't yield through being asked or told to stop, and only you can deal with the situation what do you do? Also you can't leave.
  • 2 5
 You tell the kids they aren't making good life choices and you sit down and have a discussion with them. You then pose for a selfie and go back to sleep.
  • 1 2
 @yupstate: why would two teenage girls in Australia want a selfie with some dutch bloke in a hotel corridor?!
  • 7 1
 I heard they just politely knocked on his door and asked him if he wanted to ride their ramp.
  • 6 0
 You can tell winter is setting in for the northern hemisphere!!!!! A lot people trying to burn their calories by typing.
  • 5 1
 Where are the charges for the parents for raising out of control urchins? and btw, for you guys so concerned about the girls, I have a job for you: Gislaine's client list still hasn't been exposed. You can work on that.
  • 43 39
 “He didn’t need a conviction, he’s a dedicated sportsman and cyclist. It’s really important these matters were dismissed.” god damn talk about flouting privilege
  • 8 90
flag bobbys13 (Dec 13, 2022 at 10:20) (Below Threshold)
 So it’s okay to assault young children now as long as they’re minding annoying to you? Good to know, Mattieu, you f*cking jackass.
  • 51 16
 @bobbys13: assault young children? they sound like two juvenile delinquents to me, i think anything short of slapping them showed good restraint after catching them repeatedly wrapping on his door in the middle of the night before his world champs race. he has also showed remorse and regret but i'm sure most people can relate to losing your cool in a situation like this.
  • 17 27
flag Narro2 (Dec 13, 2022 at 10:37) (Below Threshold)
 @2wheelzgood: losing self control in front of kids is a big red flag, he is an adult, resolve that with adults as adults. I doubt there were two female 13 year olds by themselves in the hotel that night.

Also MVDP has a full team around him, this is something that could be delegated to one of his perks or to his team principal with just a phone call. His job is to train and win races, not get trolled by kids.
  • 7 2
 @Narro2: The girls were staying in a room by themselves seperate from their parents.

MVDP was also staying seperately from his team. Remember this was World Champs, very different set up from the normal trade team situation.
  • 16 2
 @bobbys13: Your children will be great ASSets to society.
  • 3 7
flag Narro2 (Dec 13, 2022 at 10:55) (Below Threshold)
 @vunugu: of course they were in different rooms, even if they were in different floors, the team principal must find a way to make sure his top athlete gets a complete and efficient night of sleep. Mathieu's battles are in the trail not in the halls or media.
  • 3 2
 @EnsBen: flouting: "to intentionally not obey a rule, law, or custom". Interesting then, that the quote you're referring to are the words of his lawyer.
  • 5 1
 @mi-bike: yeah it's especially concerning the lawyer's argument for why this is the correct outcome is because MVP is "a dedicated sportsman and cyclist" rather than because the law was on his side
  • 6 2
 Keep in mind, at the end of the day no one was hurt here and Mathieu definitely got his fair share of shame. It's not like he hunted down two random people minding their own business. I think we can all say it's one of those situations where both sides suck and they kind of deserved each other lmao.
  • 7 4
 @2wheelzgood: yeah, he was charged with assault and pleaded guilty.

I think that cussing them out, calling hotel security, or talking to their parents would have showed a whole lot more restraint.
  • 9 3
 meddling kids with no respect
  • 2 1
 Go on home grandpa.
  • 2 0
 The comments here cover the whole spectrum.... from funny to serious

I've been curious how NL and the hotel didn't coordinate complete separation of athletes from the rest of the guests. It can't be that hard, can it? At the very least a security human or two could have been put in place in the hallway to secure a quiet environment given the importance of the event, no?
  • 9 7
 @YukonMog: I'm not proud, I don't think any parent is proud when they spank there kid. But, my wife and I firmly believe that sometimes a spanking is needed. We want to raise respectful kids who don't go around doing the type of stuff that these kids did. We both received spanking as kids for brat behavior. I see kids now days acting completely inappropriate in public; yelling, screaming, hitting there own parents, etc. To me that is completely ridiculous behavior.

I will say... we do have one rule with spankings, we never do it when we are mad. It's a tool, not a response. Also, its more the action not the force. Who don't need to beat your kid, just a quick slap to the butt.
  • 2 1
 Good call on not spanking your kid when mad. My parents would tell me when my punishment would take place, often hours later, or even the next day. I be so gripped the whole time, the anticipation was way worse than the punishment itself. I had a lot of time to think about what I did and to be ashamed of myself for doing it.
  • 2 0
 As this happened at the road Worlds, I'm nt sure why it's on Pinkbike. He hasn't raced MTB since the Olympics. There are other XC stories which Pinkbike could have reported, but for some reason haven't.
  • 5 1
 Anton Chigurh would have handled shit differently, ya gotta be careful who you piss off. They got off lightly.
  • 6 2
 This comment section is like the the year 2020... train wreck and a dumpster fire.
  • 3 0
 Keep it lit to keep the lights on. These conservative 'parenting experts' can suck it.
  • 5 1
 @srh4508: Don't be surprised when your "free-range" kids wander to where the wolves are.
  • 3 1
 So you can plead guilty to a sweet deal that you then appeal to get thrown out based on your celebrity. Man Australia courts sure are real nice to international celebrities.
  • 5 1
 Silly games, silly prizes.
  • 8 8
 Vanderpool Lost his Temper and Reacted out of Anger. In what warped universe of alternative justice are you people living in that think what he did is discipline? Frightening children would reinforce negative behaviors not help those girls learn a lesson.

You people are pathetic who support his actions. He’s a self entitled loser who will end up with worse kids then these if this is how he believes solving problems and discipline should be done.
  • 4 1
 There are very few people in this world that have never lost their temper and responded with disproportionate behaviour. What he did was not discipline but it most definitely has the potential to be a lesson to those girls. Today's society won't let that lesson happen though because any insinuation that a victim could've made better choices is instantly labeled victim blaming. If you only dissect one part of the incident you end up with a one sided interaction and no real means of resolution. It is a short sighted approach that will not fix the problem. If you had a sore hand would you just cut it off, or would you try and find the reason for the sore hand and try to remedy the cause of it.
  • 1 1
 @st-alfie: No I wouldn’t cut it off but I sure wouldn’t smash it either to make it feel better! Violence is violence. Lessons learned thru violence are a net negative.

Discipline: the practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behavior, using punishment to correct disobedience.

Mr. Vanderpool did in fact engage in a negative form of discipline. One that brings shame on himself and was totally counterproductive.

Of course everyone has lost their temper to varying degrees. I’m sorry but your just wrong that Mr. Vanderpools behavior was anything but destructive.
  • 5 1
 ding dong ditch
  • 10 8
 Wonder if this would have been the outcome for anyone not favored in the public eye
  • 4 1
 Knock and run? Isn't that what he did in the last Olympics?
  • 8 8
 So all you tough guys who are ok with this would be fine with a grown man putting putting his hands on your teenage daughter? So long as they did something to ‘deserve’ it?

Somehow I highly doubt this.
  • 5 6
 Ok so here goes me getting downvoted to hell and back I am sure but at this point, it is pretty well known by child psychologists that spanking and other forms of physical punishment is not good or helpful for kids so I don't know why that is even an argument. Second as a dad, my kid would 100% be in massive trouble if they did that to someone in a hotel (or any where really) but I would also be beyond pissed if a grown man chased my kid back into their room and pushed them around. There is no defending that. Surely he could have called the team manager, called the hotel staff or hell even thrown open the door and shouted at them would more then likely have scared them off.
  • 9 6
 When did PB turn into such a cesspool of macho incels?
  • 4 8
flag suspended-flesh (Dec 14, 2022 at 20:53) (Below Threshold)
 It's a vocal minority of idiots. They are generally butthurt 1950-style Basement Patriots looking for another cause to assert their manliness online about when they are actually fragile and wallowing in post-trompian victimhood. I haven't read this whole thread yet, but the Real Men-bots will be here calling us Soy Boys soon. LOL. A man does not touch a female of any age in anger. That's the way I came up.
  • 2 2
 @suspended-flesh: not even when an adult female assaults a male minor? Scary....
  • 2 1
 @RadBartTaylor: Is a male minor a Man? Nope - that's not what I said.
  • 3 4
 No matter where you fall on the issue or how black and white you want to make right and wrong when it comes to perspective and use of force, MvDP's lawyer did NOT have to say, or should have said even if he believes it:

“He didn’t need a conviction, he’s a dedicated sportsman and cyclist. It’s really important these matters were dismissed.”

Again, all the other discussion aside, this is one of the most myopic and narcissistic things about this whole debacle. In the initial article I tried to talk about perspective sprinkled with my own experience in the timeline, places and family I had. This update should be about "ok, we're done here" but somehow there's even more "violence is okay" responses. It's funny how even though it's done and many people have apparently had their views vindicated by the court, people still have to drone on about "deserve" and "that's how it was done so that's how it should still be done". This comment shitshow is just an online bar fight where no one wins. Good job everyone.
  • 4 1
 I think you are taking the comment out of context....I think its basically saying, "the judge made the right call and it's good that he didn't get convicted due to his career as a pro athlete".....I do not think it's suggesting he should get off due to him being a pro athlete.

Folks need to be a bit more open minded about this, context matters, language matters, TRY to see both sides before jumping to conclusion.
  • 2 0
 How are you surprised a lawyer is saying whatever bs for his client? That's their entire job.
  • 32 30
 I cannot believe how many commenters are cool with hitting kids.
  • 13 2
 I don't think anyone is saying that though. It's not a dichotomy, you can acknowledge that both Mathieu and the teens were in the wrong in this situation. No need to choose a side. You mess with anyone and you take the risk of the person being a hyper aggressive asshole, especially when you don't know them personally. It's kind of a fuck around find out situation, and I'd say that applied to both Mathieu and the teens.
  • 4 16
flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 12:42) (Below Threshold)
 @DylanH93: @eatdirt: "Getting slapped for being a turd was what kept kids in line back in the day." @mior: "i dont blame him" @dfiler: "I’m ok with teenagers getting pushed and held and yelled at for repeatedly harassing someone who is trying to sleep."
  • 9 3
 @GotchaJimmy: i dont support beating up kids but what he did given the circumstances was understanable
  • 2 1
 @GotchaJimmy: and I would disagree with those people, they also might just be trolling. I'm just saying that there's nuance to these types of situations. It's rare that one side is totally innocent and the other totally at fault. If Mathieu had just randomly hit two teens minding their own business, everyone would agree. I can sympathize with both. I did ding dong ditch as a kid, the ditch part was very important as I didn't want a beating. Mathieu f*cked up and he was punished for it. At the same time messing with someone can lead to bad things and I'm sure these teens understood that risk.
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flag GotchaJimmy (Dec 13, 2022 at 14:36) (Below Threshold)
 @DylanH93: There's not two sides to everything. There is such thing as right and wrong. It is wrong assault kids. It literally doesn't matter what the kid did.
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 @DylanH93: there is not really any nuance to the situation. There is no acceptable situation in which a grown man gets physical with teenage girls, unless they were physically assaulting him.

We can acknowledge that these girls were also in the wrong without justifying this man’s behavior.
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 @GotchaJimmy: Nope, wrong
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 @sino428: "There is no acceptable situation in which a grown man gets physical with teenage girls", followed by your own acceptable situation, "unless they were physically assaulting him."

Contradictions aside, if teenage girls were assaulting another person that would also justify use of force by a grown man who was witnessing the assault. Now we've got two acceptable reasons without even having to put much thought into it. I'm sure we could dig deeper if necessary.

We can acknowledge that these girls were in the also in the wrong, while UNDERSTANDING, not justifying, this man's reaction. Learn the difference.
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 @st-alfie: people treat the world as so black and white these days. One side bad, one good. Yet there's almost always a degree of nuance in most situations. Vast majority agree Mathieu went overboard, and he was punished for it. But the reality is, you mess with people and you can get unpredictable reactions. When I first starting driving me and my friends would flip off anyone for whatever reason. Then we had a few guys follow us to where we were going and basically warn us that there are crazy a*sholes out there who will absolutely get violent just for being flipped off. Is that right? Not at all, it's f*cked up. But it was also a huge lesson to us about minding our own business. Like these teens we were lucky the situation was relatively minor. There are guys out there who don't give a shit about going to prison or going back. Teens need to be made aware of this. If nothing else that could be one positive lesson from all this for these girls. It's not right but it is real and it's not going away any time soon, especially with how insane the world is these days.
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 @DylanH93: yeah, if you're going to mess with strangers you need to be at least one of three things
- faster than them
- tougher than them
- prepared for a lesson, however it may be taught.

People can play the game all they want, but to suggest to children it doesn't come with some risk is negligent. Dreaming that the world is puppies and rainbows doesn't make it so.
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 OG Two Tone, Crenshaw Mafia.
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 I think this sums up the sentiment here:
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 Kids suck.
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 Mooga Oomgawa
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 Sanity prevails. Kind of. Even that CRO seems much.
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 He's lucky the cops were called. This situation could have gone from bad to worse in an instant. A solid life lesson is never get physical with someone else's child.
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 Justice prevailed.
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 let justice ring
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