Mike vs. Mike: The Clipless Pedal Debate - Video

Feb 28, 2018 at 10:44
by Mike Kazimer  


The flat vs. clipless pedal debate has been argued to death, but how about tackling a different, not-so-hot-topic? That's right, clipless pedal size. Mountain bikers will argue about just about anything, from head angle to grip thickness, so why not add clipless pedal preference into the mix?

Levy likes to run teeny-tiny XC race pedals on every ride, while I prefer having my feet resting on pedals with at least some sort of platform around them. Who's right? You'll have to watch the video to see for yourself, and then let us know what you think in the comments below. Feel free to add in suggestions about what you want us discuss in the future; after all, if we're not out riding, Levy and I might as well be arguing about riding.

Oh, and before you start ranting about how the term 'clipless pedal' doesn't make sense, please don't. Back in the old days, when we rode side by side with woolly mammoths and dinosaurs, pedals used to have toe clips and straps. You basically stuck your foot in to a muzzle, cinched down the strap, and hoped you wouldn't need to get your foot out any time soon. Luckily, pedals were released that did away with the clip and strap system, hence the 'clipless' designation. Is it a little misleading? Sure, a little - you could call them 'clip-in' pedals if you really wanted, but after all these years, 'clipless' is still the most commonly used term, an ode to the way things used to be way back when.


Did you miss episode one, where we debate about what we'd buy with $200, $3,000, and $10,000? Check it out here.


270 Comments

  • 225 3
 So the flat pedal/platform clipless guy eats weight weenie celery while the donut eating/Monster Energy drinking guy is on XC pedals and shoes? Huh? This is an odd time we are living in.
  • 8 1
 Comment of the day ^
  • 120 2
 If you want to be a rocket engine, you need to feed yourself rocket fuel.
  • 16 0
 I think it's just that @mikelevy is using the weight savings from his pedals to justify the weight from, erm, "rocket fuel" (read: jelly-filled donut)
  • 5 1
 I think that the rider weight to bike weight ratio is key, so @mikelevy is just making his bike relatively lighter
  • 7 1
 How does landing flat from 8+ ft feel on xc pedals? Not shitposting honest question @mikelevy:
  • 7 0
 That's why we pedal up the hills, so we can eat whatever we like.
  • 8 20
flag IllestT (Mar 1, 2018 at 10:04) (Below Threshold)
 I'm pretty glad that PB is arguing over which type of clip pedal. Flats are fine for beginners, but they're generally only ridden by people who haven't tried clips. Which is a shame, because clipping in is one of the best ways to ride mtb
  • 7 1
 @IllestT: 1000% disagree with everything you said. That would be as ignorant as me saying that people only ride clipped in because they don't has the proper skills to ride flats without eating dirt and mashing shins.
(insert Sam Hill reference)
  • 8 1
 @gjedijoe: It feels fine because I'm wearing the right shoes as well - stiff soled XC kicks Wink
  • 2 4
 @mikelevy: And I'm sure that a steady diet of donuts throughout your life has left you with things such as low bone density and gaseous intestines meaning that when you land it's more like a gentle flop than a crunch
  • 5 0
 @IllestT: that's an ignorant comment, I rode toe clips in the 80's till about 96' then went SPD clippless till about 2005 Then I went to flats... flats are were it's at for my riding, plus it does make you a better all around rider... I ride recreational DH, DJing, Freeriding & Trail.... if I ever got into doing miles and miles of XC I would consider being clipped in again....
  • 1 0
 They are that stiff huh?never tried any. I'm thinking of going sort of the opposite direction, plastic bmx pedals, they are so comfy and also strong, why does no one use them?@mikelevy:
  • 127 1
 Pedals are so 2017. I just weld my shoes to my cranks.
  • 29 4
 flat pedals.
  • 62 3
 waiting for gwin to win without pedals
  • 48 1
 I'm all about the middle path: clipless for the left foot, flats for my right.

Best of both worlds!
  • 14 0
 @jaydubmah: Brian Lopes won World Cups like that, proving his personality isn't the only thing that seems mixed up.
  • 1 0
 @jaydubmah: truly the best setup for dual slalom
  • 15 0
 @jaydubmah: I have actually seen this, no shit. At a UK 4X national the compressor for the gate broke down so for fiarness all riders had to place thier back wheel up the gate an do on footed starts. One foot on the pedal, one foot on the ground.
there was about 5 riders that raced
one clip
one flat...............
  • 8 5
 The moment I feel the need to wear some baseball cleats, I'll let you know. Flats.
  • 3 0
 @jaydubmah:

The next enduro-trend no doubt.
  • 25 5
 Flat pedals don't win medals. Sam Hill wins f*cking medals.

Almost everyone else is wasting seconds pretending that they can too.
  • 1 3
 @jaydubmah: pic or i dont believe you
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: One foot starts are good fun and fast if you can get them right.
Although at a continental championship the gate starters do stall wondering if you know how to ride.
  • 6 0
 @jaydubmah: Thats the way I ride all the time, since I only have half a left foot. just cant bring myself to clip in on right side
  • 3 0
 @jaydubmah: I did that in a full entire enduro race, the plastic base in my VX 5.10's broke (know issue) minutes before my turn in the start gate. Was scary sometimes cause I was conscious of that slippery feel, but I was wearing a clipless pedal with a "platform" without pins. So I think in my experience that have an extra platform is useful when it matters. I was able to finish the race in one piece!! Smile Just my Two Cents.
Since then I went back to flat pedals every time.
  • 3 2
 @Waldon83: i bet ur slow
  • 1 0
 lmaaaooooo
  • 2 0
 @triptex: Well said
  • 4 0
 @pogan: I am, but at least I can spell... so
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: OMG - real life is stranger than fiction!
  • 1 0
 @5piggies: Respect!
  • 1 0
 @jaydubmah: now I got that Bad Religion song in my head Smile
  • 1 1
 @triptex: ^ Where, on the uphills?
  • 3 1
 @SonofBovril: In rough sections where your feet are bouncing off your flats the rest of us will be pedaling. Flat pedals only compare In a world where you have access to fresh pins and new shoes every other week. It's simply not reasonable for the average joe to maintain the consistency required to compare with the effect of being clipped in through the shit day in and day out.
  • 1 0
 @Waldon83: I mean i can spell also, just easier to type short like that
  • 96 2
 Sorry @mikelevy, have to go with @mikekazimer. But don't get me wrong, I love riding with eggbeater pedals. I used to race the EWS on them! But as Kazimer said, it's those times you come unclipped in a rowdy section or it's slippery and you just need a place to put your foot until you can clip back in.
  • 53 0
 I don't have any EWS podiums or wins (yet) so you win this one, dammit.
  • 2 0
 I was wondering that because I remember a photo of you hitting a pole and flying upside down at Corral EWS, you colud clearly see the pedals.
  • 5 3
 @mikelevy: I'm with you Levy, small pedals all day. Platforms make little sense, extra rotational weight and easy pedal strikes and more things to break. I run the same XT spd's on all my bikes.
  • 25 0
 Thanks, @JesseMelamed. I knew I was right Wink
  • 5 0
 another point to Kazimer. because that little cage around the clip mechanism also; 1. protects it and prevents unwanted disengagement 2. deflects the otherwise abrupt/straight edge blows while your bashing it on rocks. I don't know why im even commenting I only use clipless for road haha
  • 18 0
 @mikelevy: I was 2nd in Whistler in 2016 on Eggbeaters, first in 2017 on Mallets...The stats speak for themselves. I had to conform, but you don't have to! Stay strong.
  • 3 0
 @ajaneta: I raced the first 3 years of EWS on Eggbeaters!
  • 3 0
 @WayneParsons: I hope you never come unclipped when you don't want to.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: You're welcome.
  • 2 1
 @JesseMelamed: sometimes, but then I just clip back in... and I have my tension maxed out
  • 1 0
 @WayneParsons: I'm also in the small pedal camp, but I run XT Trail pedals. They aren't wider than the Race variant but the little piece that protrudes to the front deflects rocks and other debris and saved me from going OTB countless times beause they don't catch as easily as the cageless version
  • 3 0
 All other commenters are now irrelevant.
  • 4 0
 @mikelevy: next week debate a another tire vs Minions.
  • 55 2
 Celery -vs- Donuts
  • 21 0
 The problem is that there needs to be an argument. Can anyone argue for celery?
  • 43 2
 Donuts.
  • 21 2
 @mikelevy: were you really drinkin monster, mike? cuz thatz nasty.
  • 4 2
 @fullbug: It was sugar free, so its fine
  • 7 2
 @fullbug: Sugar-free, man, so it's all good.
  • 8 1
 @mikelevy: lol. ain't nuthin free but stay thirsty, mike!
  • 4 1
 Celery is good for your bonner.
  • 3 2
 @jdsusmc: not if u chase it with monster
  • 8 2
 Perhaps no food so we don't have to listen to them chew?
  • 3 0
 Levy wins on appetite, Kazimer ate like a quarter of a stick? vs a full stack of Donuts.
  • 6 3
 @mikelevy: So instead of a too sugary drink that tastes the way piss smells, you just had a drink that tastes the way piss smells? Get yourself a coffee or something man!
  • 3 0
 @jdsusmc: but you have to zip-tie it really good Wink hahahaha
  • 4 1
 @mikelevy: your better off drinking rocket fuel! Artificial sweetner is worse than smoking a Jeffery man!
  • 3 0
 @jdsusmc: but it wreaks havoc on your spelling
  • 4 0
 People eat celery? I thought it was just a garnish for chicken wings
  • 2 0
 Who eats a plate of celery at a brewery?
  • 6 0
 @rubbertoe: Kazimero is super weird.
  • 2 0
 @nummbr7: Rabbits eat celery. And celery is acceptable in soup. That's it.
  • 1 0
 @Dustfarter: Until your comment, I wasn't sure what @jdsusmc was saying... lol
  • 3 0
 @rubbertoe: celery is part of the recipe of a Bloody Mary (which can be made with beer). I've never heard of donuts in a cocktail.
  • 2 0
 @Rubberelli: You live in the US. Guaranteed someone in your country has done it before. I'm sure I've seen worse in Portland.
  • 1 0
 @rrolly: voodoo ftw!
  • 1 0
 @jdsusmc: yep. Nitrates...same as the active ingredient in the little blue pills
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: Then you better read the rest of the ingredients... more chemical than this it won't get ... Even Coca Cola is jealous on it..
  • 1 0
 @ismasan: it has to be a garnish or blended in to be part of the recipe!
  • 1 0
 @Rubberelli: maybe Rogue let the beer age with donuts floating in it, who knows...
  • 32 2
 Click-clack goes my gat, not my feet in the supermarket beer aisle after a ride, so flats for me.
  • 29 1
 "Once you clipped in it does not matter what type of cage is around the pedal" Come on guys are you serious ?
  • 10 0
 I agree with the little French dude.
  • 12 2
 It's true. The ball of your foot should be on the axle(clip-in point), how much can your foot actually flex around that point? Not very much, plus shoes are mostly stiff enough that they don't flex that much either. You're not using much of the cage when you're clipped in.
  • 4 0
 @JesseMelamed: yep. Clips helped me find that perfect foot position and it translated to better control with flats. You bring up some good points
  • 4 0
 first of all a tiny XC pedal feels completely different to big plattform clip pedal like the HT / DX etc...
And If you take in account that there are people with quite big feets and a bodyweights above 75kg the story is different for each individual...
additionally the shoes... do you ride a super stiff one or an more flexibel one... as well after some months a shoe like the 5.10 hellcat (my favorite) isn´t as stiff as it was box fresh... this leads to the fact that the shoe will bend over the pedal quite easy.... Considering my weight of 100kg plus shoe size 47 (US13)...

So for me it´s not even a topic to discuss about... it´s an fact to me that I need a bigger platform (as long as I don´t want to ride hardshell XC shoes...) ^^
  • 3 0
 I don't care what the debate is, if more pros can disagree on PB that's worth 100 times more than our amateur spats. That's where the clicks will come from (that and gun debates).
  • 2 0
 And little French dudes are always right. Remember that one who made most of Europe drive on the right?
  • 4 0
 @BenPea: I always like to disagree, keeps me fresh!
  • 2 0
 This
  • 2 0
 It's ridiculous to have one finite opinion on this with literally a ton of different shoe/pedal combos. While there are a bunch of the combo's where the shoe does not hit the cage, a lof of them do (yes, while clipped in) and is a feature many people are looking for, and personally the most important thing when choosing pedals/shoes.
  • 3 1
 @JesseMelamed: with all due respect...ball of foot over spinal is not really ideally. There is definitely benefits to slamming your cleats as far back as your shoes allow (for those of us clipped in) and it is an advantage of flats.
  • 2 1
 @ReformedRoadie: In some cases maybe, but then you lose a lot of ankle flexion which is part of your body suspension. Body suspension + Tire Suspension + Actual Suspension = smooth ride.
  • 1 0
 @IsakL: You're right, there are many combinations. I guess I mainly ride a stiffer shoe.
  • 2 0
 @ReformedRoadie: True, I even carved out my shoes to put the cleats further backwards... to middle foot...

The more backwards, the less you abuse your calf Wink
  • 1 0
 @Trailstunter: if only riding dh. If pedal like an xc rider you are looking for efficiency and power delivery. Not just hanging on.
  • 1 0
 @JesseMelamed: I thought you just said above you ride and prefer caged pedals? I'm confused Wink
  • 2 0
 @mitch32: spot on, big dude factors get forgotten.
  • 3 1
 @Patsplit: If you stand on your pedal with the middle of your foot over the axle, then yes you will use the platform. But if you are standing on the ball of your foot the platform will just rotate with your foot as your ankle bends.

@ybsurf If I could magically stay clipped in all the time I would much prefer eggbeaters, but in race situations I find myself needing the extra platform for when I need a place to put my foot until I can safely clip back in.

And to my point about why I think ankle flexion is important, here: www.instagram.com/p/BfysSKUBGj4/?taken-by=rynoglobal
  • 1 0
 @JesseMelamed: That's good food for thought, thanks. This ankle freedom idea seems to be problematic for flat pedals, though, if as I suspect we tend to have our feet more centred on the pedal. True?
Can't say it's crossed my mind before, but it's in there now.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: hmm, well I don't know if it's because I am so used to my clipped in position but whenever I ride flats(DJ or commuting) I have my foot in the same position with the ball of my foot over the axle. But I can't say how that works while trail riding. I imagine that because you do use a lot of the platform with flats you could get away with it though, it's worth experimenting!
  • 1 0
 @JesseMelamed: I think with flats, I unconsciously have the foot forward a cm or two, just to avoid slipping off the back and losing another shin...
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: Which is totally understandable. None of us have much skin left to lose on our shins haha
  • 24 0
 Platform clipless with softer shoe. Riding in the highcountry, there are sections that have to be hiked and having a softer shoe is much better to hike in. I do like a little extra meat under my feet in rocky sections and especially when riding in regular shoes to go downtown for a beer.
  • 4 0
 I prefer the same set-up... softer soled shoe with a DX pedal... feels like I’m riding a flat but then my foot doesn’t bounce in to an awkward spot when the trails get extra chunky... and the soft shoes are great for the hike-a-bike lines... and I don’t have to wear high speed spandex to match my high speed XC shoes
  • 6 0
 I run larger platform for everything because I find on long descents I get pain in my feet with small platforms. larger cip-in or flat pedals get rid of the pain.
  • 21 0
 You guys need to debate whether you can get your ballzack stuck in that Liteville linkage or not.
  • 10 0
 I’ll leave that test up to @mikelevy.
  • 6 2
 @mikekazimer: As the XC guy his balls have quite likely shrivelled up to nearly road biker size
  • 17 0
 @mikekazimer not necessarily a Mike vs Mike topic, but would love to see a "Staff bike check" series. Show us the stuff that y'all ride on a daily.
  • 7 0
 We're working on a Staff Rides feature for each editor this year. @mikekazimer will have one up later this spring, but you can see some previous ones now:

www.pinkbike.com/news/European-Made-Nicolai-GeoMetron-Super-Bike.html
www.pinkbike.com/news/staff-rides-mike-levys-rocky-mountain-element-2017.html
  • 6 2
 @brianpark: That Geometron should only be displayed on the dark web. The bike equivalent of a snuff movie.

imho
  • 1 0
 But has the Nicolai actually been ridden yet?
  • 10 0
 I started off using toe clips back in the day and quickly adopted spd's when they came out, but when I started to ride a full suspension bike and trails I switched to flats and have never looked back. I like being able to bail out quickly and feet out on the corners, no way I would ever go back to clips...
  • 1 0
 Have both, occasionally go back to clips, but enjoy my flats a ton.
  • 25 12
 Flats and 5.10s. win medals
  • 26 23
 And tough ass studs do fine chicks on gornhub, it may feel like you doing it, but you aren't.
  • 23 1
 Okay let's be real: Sam MotherF***ing Hill wins medals. But you know who else does? Gwin. Shurter. Atherton. Hart. And guess what? They're clipped in. Hell, if I ride flats and I'm this annoyed at the "Flat Pedals Win Medals" platitude, I can't imagine what the clip-in people are feeling.

Ride what you like, end of story.

(this message directed at the PHRASE, not the poster)
  • 4 3
 Biggest winning margin in a World Cup DH was done on flat pedals - Chis Kovarik at Fort Bill in 02. He won by 14 seconds! Flat pedals do win medals.
No one is saying clip-ins don't win medals.
The point of #flatpedalswinmedals is that you can win on flats with correct technique. It's not a disadvantage on a proper DH track.
It's just to counter the dogma that you have to clip in to win.
  • 1 0
 @JamesR2026: actually its the second biggest win. Biggest was vouilloz on clips.
  • 3 2
 I think that Flat pedals win medals is like saying: looks like a session or Norbs got robbed. It's something we say... if you have a bigger non comical problem with it, maybe you are insecure about your cleat handling?
  • 1 0
 @russthedog: Check again. Nico's biggest winning margin was 6.41 seconds at Are world Champs.
  • 7 0
 Flats ftw!

-----

Possible items to debate:

- lubricated cable housing vs dry

- push on grips vs grips w clamps

- saddle angle

-chamois vs commando

-tire pressure

-chain lube

-torque wrench vs guesswork

-fast rolling rear tire vs grippy mofo

-shock tune
  • 1 0
 tire one - yes! how about dyi vs bike shop mech on something that is challenging to wrench
  • 8 2
 Loving the celery.

I have to say, though, that I've long agreed with @MikeLevy. If you're clipped in, what do you need that other stuff for? Either go full platform, or full clip, but you don't need both.I guess XT trail pedals look cooler, though.

Next topic, just to throw a couple out there: Do you need off-bike training? (weights, yoga, etc.); hydration pack or water bottle?; shuttle or earn your ride down (does mountain biking really need to be a suffer fest)?; metrics (Garmin, Strava, power meters) -- needed or not? Do they do more harm than good?
  • 9 0
 "If you're clipped in, what do you need that other stuff for?"

That's the thing... "if you're clipped in".
  • 5 0
 1) Yes, always, you will ride better and hurt less. 2) Whichever. 3) Yes to all three. 4) If you want and only to those who over analyse themselves with no discernable goal. Well that was an easy debate.
  • 2 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: Supercilious, you!
  • 7 0
 @TheR: I'm British I can't help it, with the empire gone being snooty is all we have left.
  • 2 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: I was going to say something along those lines... Way to own it!
  • 6 1
 I used to ride stiff xc shoes and little SPD's, these were fine until I started riding really gnarly terrain where a little platform for when you needed to dab was required. Now I ride mallets with Enduro shoes. I love the extra support of the mallets but I miss the direct feel of an xc shoe. I'm not really sure what I want.....
  • 8 0
 I just came here to see how many donuts Levy would mow through. Was sorely disappointed.
  • 5 0
 I have wide, horrendously ugly feet. While my shoe-pedal combination won't do much to improve my Froto look, I find that the combination of something along the lines of a Shimano AM-9, with a wide toebox and soft-ish sole coupled with a DH styled clipless pedal is what works best for me. You get a bit more support around the cleat, so your foot isn't flexing as much under power, but without the discomfort of a rigid sole, which I find usually leaves my feet feeling like they're on fire after about 45 minutes of riding. Digging this series, fellas!
  • 6 0
 Thanks, Brice. That AM-9 with a DH clipless pedal is one of my favorite combos - those shoes are so comfy, like bedroom slippers you can ride in.
  • 8 4
 I respect their opinions, but I use what I like and what works for me. But I am sure there are going to be keyboard shredders that are going to take these opinions as a personal affront to the choices they made and will be shortly chiming in with venom the likes of which we have never seen. I can't wait to watch the show!
  • 26 0
 If you don't use the exact same components as me you're wrong. Bottom line.
  • 3 0
 @bforwil: You don't like what I like, so you're not a real mountain biker and you don't know anything 26" wheels wa wa...
  • 7 2
 Riding with clips is like sex with a condom - safe, secure, good for endurance, but not as much fun. My first rides on a new bike are always in flats to get to really know it.
  • 14 0
 You're doing it wrong. Buy the ribbed ones and wear them inside out.
  • 1 0
 @metaam: genuine LOL!
  • 1 0
 You need endurance
  • 4 0
 Flats,always..this topic is like arguing what’s better to eat,nigiri or sashimi..both are edible and acceptable.i hope the next mike on mike video gets a little more interesting...I want more attention brought to the pricing spectrum of complete bikes or even just new standard parts...let’s drive down these stupid prices!
  • 5 0
 These argument exist because deep down we NEED to know that our setup is the best. 'SEE!! Sam Hill rides flats too!!'
  • 1 0
 These arguments exist so that these guys can try and go viral on YouTube. Pmsl
  • 4 0
 hard to ask for future topics without knowing if you disagree about them, but I'd like a 'longer, slacker bikes, yes please vs. stop it now'
  • 3 0
 I remember @JesseMelamed racing in Eggbeaters and xc shoes at EWS Corral in 2016, now he uses Mallets and trail shoes... so... maybe you just have to be confident on whatever you're using.
  • 2 0
 You are correct! I think I am faster with the eggbeaters and xc shoes but only when I stay clipped in. It's too sketchy when I unclip so I decided to change to the bigger pedals.
  • 2 0
 I have 2 groups of riding buddies;
Group 1 - Flats only, clipless is for lycra wearing, shaved legged, XC, weight weenies. Flats for life I don't need upstroke for climbing.
Group 2 - Clipped in - some trail clips, some small clips, all baggy shorts,no shaved legs, trail riding, 30lb bikes, I want upstroke power for climbing.

I ride clipless without a cage. never saw the need for a cage once clipped in. I am the outlier in group 1 and I am shunned Wink
  • 6 1
 I’m really enjoying this video series even though it is pointless because Levy is always right.
  • 9 0
 I think that's why I'm enjoying it as well.
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: I'm more interested in a feature on your little blue cooper than the pedal debate. Smile
  • 4 0
 Next topics: bigger or smaller travel trail bikes? 170mm bikes really necessary? Or 140/150 do the job more than fine?
  • 15 0
 Always less travel.
  • 2 1
 Says the guy on the 100m XC rig! Tiny pedals, Monster and celery, 6 donuts in 5 minutes, and a turrrrible deadlift. This guy can't be trusted.
  • 3 2
 I think you should just ride flats.

I don’t see a lot of exposure where these guys typically ride. And I’ve had enough “holy f*ck” moments on really exposed trails that whatever minimal advantage being clipped in provides isn’t worth not being able to disconnect from my bike in a split second.

Different strokes but I just don’t see the value in being attached to your bike that way.
  • 1 0
 My thoughts exactly. Even though I love clipping in and not having to worry about what position my feet are in while jumping, cornering, or in the rough, crashing while clipped in is ALWAYS worse than flats. Even if you factor in the occasional time those nasty pedal pins bite your shin.
  • 1 0
 I ride flat pedals for everything these days including road riding( in baggy shorts) but when I rode clipped in I did like the time attack pedal because I thought it was a happy medium...

you guys should argue who should be Mike and who should have to be Michael...
  • 1 0
 This definitely falls into the category of rider preference. No one can truly win this debate since it's all based on each riders individual riding area, terrain, skills, and whatever else you want to factor in. We need debates with facts and a clear winner, otherwise we all lose.
  • 1 0
 Why don't more clipless pedals utilise a twisting cage like the m647 dx pedals? The cage isn't there for grip, it's there to make the cleat engage instantly by stomping on the pedal. Push down vertically, the front of the cleat pops up, engages and the back snaps in.
I believe the dmr vtwin has a floating cage as well but can't think of any others that do. IMHO a static cage on a clipless pedal is pointless.
  • 1 0
 I think the people who are having trouble clipping in on the first try may have their at the wrong angle. If you feet naturally toe out you need to compensate slightly by angling the cleat in when your when the toed out foot hits the pedal the cleat is square to the mechanism on the pedal and enters with ease. Sorry for the run on sentence
  • 1 0
 I use the same Shimano pedals (model not actual same pedal) for the last 6,000,000 years. So let’s just say it seems odd when I switch. So I don’t switch. Don’t know if it’s good or bad, but they’re durable, cheap and work just fine. BTW the only bike crash I’ve had that resulted in lasting injury was a pedal strike while trying CB Mallets. Just sayin.
  • 1 0
 Let’s talk about how they should be called clips or clip-ins and not clipless. Even though they are technically clipless because 30 years ago blah blah.... No it’s counterintuitive and makes no sense, they are clip-ins, if you call them clipless I don’t trust you or anything you say, you probably move rocks off of trails and prefer imba trails, just sayin.
  • 1 0
 I rode with straps and crashed a couple times, yeah them old f*cks were gnarly for that, but I ride pedals, (fat bmx aluminum) and while I have had some real f*cked up shinners, I've gotten efficient where they feel glued to my feet, especially with my ken griffey jr shoes.. yea the baseball legend. So much grip.
  • 1 0
 first of all a tiny XC pedal feels completely different to big plattform clip pedal like the HT / DX etc...
And If you take in account that there are people with quite big feets and a bodyweights above 75kg the story is different for each individual...
additionally the shoes... do you ride a super stiff one or an more flexibel one... as well after some months a shoe like the 5.10 hellcat (my favorite) isn´t as stiff as it was box fresh... this leads to the fact that the shoe will bend over the pedal quite easy.... Considering my weight of 100kg plus shoe size 47 (US13)...

So for me it´s not even a topic to discuss about... it´s an fact to me that I need a bigger platform (as long as I don´t want to ride hardshell XC shoes...) ^^

So me riding: DX clips with Hellcats... and I love it Smile
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy I have the same argument as you for smaller clip pedals BUT I have found an isolated legit case for platform clips... but in this case it only applies when wearing a softer soled shoe like a 510. You see, when you jump and land hard, the shoe flexes and the smaller pedal creates a more focused and greater pressure point on the bottom of your foot, this can cause you to come unclipped and even hurt the sole of your foot if done repetitively, whereas if you had a platform the sole of the shoe flexes and comes into contact with the platform and gives a wider area over which to spread the pressure, this gives more control and less chance of injuring your foot. I guess it depends how much you jump and how smooth you are as well...
  • 1 0
 Nukeproof Horizon CL on my Enduro
I love that Shimano AM9 shoes. Are they comfy....Run those pedals with full pins for security but boy they sure are "sole eaters".

Shimano XT Trail on my AM rig.
Stiffer soled shoes for that power transfer efficiency.

Mike vs Mike...
How about carbon vs alloy wheels?
Shimano vs SRAM vs Box?
Long reach vs Traditional reach?
Oval vs Round chainrings?
  • 1 0
 Well having tried clipless pedals with platforms I found that there were no advantages. I ride the smaller pedals and find that I have no trouble finding my pedal after a pedal strike, even if I'm not clipped in on the first couple of strokes, I still manage to continue. As far as shoes go, I like a softer shoe and I manage quite well up technical climbs.

It's all personal preference.

How about bar width?
  • 1 0
 Over 20 yrs I have moved from flats/5.10 to egg beaters or candy's with stiff soled XC shoes to XT's clip ins with soft soled hiker style shoes for XC/trail riding. The feeling of being connected to the bike is hands down better with the wider body pedals and soft soles. It truly is the best of both worlds, especially once you get the float set to your preference. No cage focussed the pressure on my foot and made riding uncomfortable at times, especially out of saddle climbs. Can still walk around in the shoes off the bike, and can pedal when not clipped in.

Still flats for DH, always.
  • 1 0
 Quite frankly Mike and Mike, once you clipped in it does matter what kind of pedal is under your shoe. Latest Mallets give you ability to fine tune how much shoe should contact the platform, so your foot no longer moves and you get better power transfer as well as balance. Meanwhile Levy stands on two pins in ballerinas. Why do you think roadies use large contact, stiff interface, instead of wobbly MTB stuff?
  • 4 0
 I want you to argue why Levy polished off the donuts but not the celery Wink
  • 1 0
 I can honestly state that @mikelevy is a real hucker. Don't give a f*ck about this pedals, it doesn't matter, they don't make him faster, or maybe yes, who cares.... Wink I like pedals both ways.
  • 1 0
 Awesome. Way better than the Giro/bell/CamelBak threqsd. I tried trail clipless for about the length it took me to clip a root and crack my crank. Went back to my much loves Tomes and a happy boy.
  • 1 0
 Old Ritchey spd pedals ????????????????????????????... Never platform pedals !!!!!

Next topic : super wide bars vs shoulder width normal bars
... I prefer normal shoulder width bars ..
  • 2 0
 I can't believe nobody's talking about a shoulder width:arm length:bar width coefficient.
  • 1 0
 Flats for me, but I'm kinda all over the place in the trail. If I were to get clipless I would get a Platform set up to be on with out being in..... Wait,... well that sounded odd....
  • 3 0
 Anyone remember "Dan vs Dave"?
  • 3 0
 Celery and Monster Energy: what kind of unholy union is this?!?!
  • 4 0
 what establishment serves this combo? I was waiting for a waitress to plop 3doz wings on their table.
  • 2 0
 I use Mallet-E's.....love them! Recently tried the Mallet DH's and liked them even more.
  • 2 0
 Just came by to see if the canyon E-Bike hate wave had hit.. moving right along..
  • 2 0
 Holy Moses! I'm moving to higher ground On my non-e-bike
  • 4 5
 Levy is 100% correct, small pedals and stiff carbon soled shoes are the way to go. If the XTR Race pedals where 50% off I would have got them but given that the XTR trail pedals where about $100 less due to a CRC sale the last time I bought pedals i went with those instead.

XTR SPDs and Giro Empire VR90 is as good as it gets. I would ride this set up in the Whistler bike park if I still had a DH Bike.
  • 16 5
 You can always tell when the weight weenie XC crew arrives at the bar for some post-ride beverages... a heard of awkward tap dancers dressed in sperm suits.
  • 6 3
 I ride a banshee, with saint brakes, I doubt you would consider me to be an XC guy. I'm Just a guys who has been riding bikes on and off road for 25+ years and seen every fad come and go.... Some how small SPD pedals and stiff shoes have always stayed around. Heck laces on shoes have come back as the "new" best closure system for shoes...
  • 3 2
 @Squamishboz: you ride a banshee? Should be on flats obviously.
  • 2 0
 They're great until you have to walk. Either for hike-a-bike or because you just jumped off mid crash, even the XC type shoes with tread don't seem to be as good as more boot-like DH shoes when it comes to the panic jump run. Maybe I should get better at not crashing.
  • 2 0
 For the past 30 years it's been hands down Levy small pedals all the way. No platforms required, just clip in and roll.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer If you guys ever need a third Mike with strong opinions, hit me up.
  • 3 0
 This is my brother Darryl and this is my other brother Darryl
  • 2 0
 Big plat form clipless cuz the small clips hurt my feet when sending large even with 5 ten shoes on.
  • 1 0
 I can totally feel the difference between a shimano SPD and a Trail Version and prefer it. Granted, less and less as the shoe wears down.
  • 1 0
 smaller flats on trail bike , larger flats on DH bike ,five tens ,works for me , I usually take my feet off for one reason or another during my ride
  • 1 0
 I’m with levy on this one.. I was bullied into clipless 15 years ago because I was told flats were for pussy’s. Earn your knee scars and clip in!
  • 1 0
 1:15. jus sayin. love a lil somethin extra to stand on when i miss the sweet spot but i'm already committed to the drop or rocks ahead
  • 1 0
 Flat pedals don't win medals. Sam Hill wins f*cking medals.

Almost everyone else is wasting seconds pretending that they can too.
+1
  • 1 2
 I think I've tried for almost three years to ride clipped in, something from Ritchey and later Shimano. Never got along with them. They either release when they shouldn't or don't release when I'm already in bed. I rode a couple of years on platforms (great) and later tried Time Z pedals (clipped with a platform) when I got a full susser and thought it was going to help me on the uphills. Kept tipping over again. So that was the last time (over ten years ago now, probably). Riding a bike is difficult enough, being clipped in is just too much.
  • 2 0
 i wear power grips with thourogood 10" work boots, or asolo fugitives.... i dont what the f*ck you guys are talking about.
  • 2 0
 haha they actually did eat celery
  • 3 1
 Shimano 540 pedal with 56 multi release cleat. Done
  • 1 0
 I almost never find myself having to un-clip and use my mallets as flat pedals. No matter how tech or gnarly a trail is. I
  • 2 0
 Mallets didn't break...Great!
  • 3 0
 Mallets for the win
  • 1 1
 Ride what you like /fell comfortable on. Nothing more needs to be said. Sam Hill wins on flats, so does Aaron Gwin. I've seen fest sized jumps cleared on clips and flats.
  • 3 0
 Arron on clips btw. oops
  • 1 0
 If I only ever dab my left foot does it make sense to go flat pedal/shoe on the left and clipless on the right?
  • 2 0
 Fuck it, grab a set of DX's and send it
  • 3 0
 Slow day at PB?
  • 1 0
 I always felt like a dumbass cheap skate rocking the Shimano M520's but now I don't feel bad Smile
  • 2 0
 M520s are like Shimano's big joke at the rest of the industry, "Oh so you want $150 for those pedals and they break all the time? Ha! We sell these for £25, they last forever and we still make more profit than you, Up Yours Crank Brothers!"
  • 1 0
 Ride whatever you're most comfortable with, clips work for some people and flats for others.
  • 2 0
 You're entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong.
  • 1 0
 Surely flats are the true clipless then. Remove 'muzzle' and what are you left with? Flats!
  • 1 0
 Can we all agree to call them "clips" and "flats"? No more *^% "clipless" (!!)
  • 1 0
 Flats all the way shoes are more comfortable. Put them on at home drive to the trail head start shredden no time wasted
  • 2 1
 Explained why I haven't enjoyed a pink bike review in a while... thank you pinkbike for showing who is behind the articles.
  • 1 0
 K is right. Mallets for gnar drops/park, skinny for XC, flats for BMX. Don't fight it.
  • 1 0
 But yeah, clip w a little cage..because I don't always get it in first try...hehe
  • 1 0
 This is silly the difference is pointless clipless is clipless the difference is between flat and clipless.
  • 1 0
 Great videos but kazimer is more outspoken than levy, i feel like the pairing is not correct for these “live” videos.
  • 1 0
 donuts from the 1st episode are gone ????? Damn it! I was wondering how many of them Mike can eat
  • 1 0
 This has nothing to do with this article. Kazimer, stick with clipless peddles,stay out of guns.
  • 1 1
 Next topics: Carbon v Alloy frames Emtbs (Dare you) and should mountain biking try to become more mainstream?
  • 1 0
 hmm, I'm suspicious of the celery being there just as atrezzo
  • 1 0
 Ride what you want. Get off my lawn!
  • 3 3
 DX pedals for life, and fuck you guys didn't swear nearly enough, more swearing more donuts and dx pedals
  • 4 1
 We tried to keep if family friendly... Maybe someday we'll release a bloopers / outtake video with all the swearing.
  • 1 0
 Hey editor. Please sort out the audio. This is not working!!
  • 2 0
 Flat pedals no shoes.
  • 1 0
 imagine being clipped in on an e-bike , fast as f*ck
  • 1 0
 Watch video with headphones, I dare you.
  • 1 0
 Flat pedals and celery because the rest is old school
  • 1 1
 I'm not sure if Levy is ever right about anything. It is funny when he pounds 12 donuts in a 5 minute video though.
  • 2 0
 Bar width, ok fight!
  • 1 0
 Celery over monster any day
  • 1 0
 Even my grandma rides clipless. Evolve.
  • 1 0
 I think it should have been a celery vs clipless debate.
  • 1 0
 That was a lot of celery.
  • 1 0
 how about different mic placement or no tapping on the damn table?
  • 1 0
 Mike, thank you for not eating 20 donuts this time!!
  • 1 0
 Shimano DX FTX (PDM-647)
  • 1 1
 someone just ask sam hill whats faster. the end!
  • 1 0
 DD vs that EXO crap.
  • 1 1
 Flat pedals because Sam Hill
  • 1 0
 Carbon vs Aluminum bars
  • 1 3
 Why do they call them Clipless pedals when you need to clip in Smile Flat Pedals Forever
  • 1 2
 It was celery because Kazimer needs the fiber as he's full of sh!t.
  • 1 0
 It takes a piece of s*** to recognize a piece of s*** @mrmentallo
  • 1 1
 @properp: Thanks pal! Nice trolling.
  • 1 2
 What is this nonsense? Honestly....
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