Somehow we made it to 2021. That number still doesn't seem right to me - I'm pretty sure everyone was supposed to have rocket packs, laser guns, and flying vehicles by now. Unless your last name is Musk, you probably don't have any of those things. Luckily, mountain biking still exists in this odd world that we're living in, and today's bikes are better than ever.
We were recently talking about the next iteration of the Grim Donut, a discussion that got me thinking about what features all modern mountain bikes should have, at least in my mind. There's a mental checklist I go through when I'm writing up a bike review, so I thought I'd get that list out of my brain and onto the screen. Without further ado, here's a list of what I'm looking for on a new mountain bike.Long travel dropper posts + frames to accommodate themThe average dropper post length has been increasing over the last few years, but there are still too many companies putting 150mm posts into size large frames, and too many frames being released that don't have short enough seat tubes, or enough insertion depth to run a longer travel post.
Sure, on shorter travel bikes a super-long post isn't as much of a necessity – those bikes will see more use on rolling terrain, where getting the seat as far out of the way as possible isn't quite as important, but it should at least be possible to run one. On longer travel bikes, I'd like to see more companies get on board and start shipping bikes with 200 or 210mm posts, at least on the large and extra large sizes. At the moment, I'd say the companies based in the Pacific Northwest are doing it best. Transition, Kona, and Norco all have bikes that come properly spec'd.
There are multiple posts on the market that allow the amount of travel to be customized, so I'm not sure why more companies don't use a something like the Trans-X Rad or PNW Components' Rainier post, where the travel can be altered up to 30mm in 5mm increments in a matter of seconds without any special tools.
On the other end of the price scale, I'm still waiting for a 200mm RockShox AXS post to come out. Right now, 170mm is the longest option, which means that there are a bunch of fancy bikes out there that would be even better with a longer post, but their owners will need to go retro and install cable and housing (or hydraulic line) if they decide they want more drop.
12 x 148mm rear axle spacing There hasn't been a massive shakeup in the axle spacing realm for a few years, and my fingers are crossed that it stays that way. Most new XC, trail, and enduro bikes are showing up with 12x148mm Boost rear hub spacing, and there are even some DH bikes, like the Specialized Demo, with that spacing as well.
That brings us to 12x157mm SuperBoost spacing. I've seen all the graphs and read all of the justifications, and yes, it would have made a whole lot of sense if regular Boost had never hit the market, but at this point I think it's too late to change lanes again. There are lots of examples of bikes with relatively short chainstays, generous tire clearance, and plenty of frame stiffness that use regular Boost spacing; why shake things up for negligible gains?
Size specific or adjustable chainstays We're starting to see more and more companies rolling out size-specific chainstays, or chainstays with chips that allow them to be lengthened or shortened by 10mm or so. Maintaining an even front center to rear center ratio across all frame sizes makes a lot of sense, and it's a little surprising that it's taken so long for this to catch on.
After all, an extra-large bike with a 500mm reach and 440mm chainstays is going to feel a lot different out on the trail than a size small with a 430mm reach and those same 440mm chainstays. Having size specific chainstays makes sure that the bike's intended handling characteristics are maintained no matter the rider height.
Threaded bottom brackets I'm not as vehemently opposed to press-fit bottom brackets as some – I haven't had any noise related issues in years - but given the choice I'd still always pick a threaded bottom bracket. After all, they're easier to install and remove over and over again without any frame damage, and much less likely to creak or get jarred out of place. It's still a little mind-boggling that you can pay more than $3,000 for a frame that doesn't have a threaded bottom bracket – if I was designing a bike this would be on my list of must-have features.
Cable routing that works Internal or external, I'm not too fussed about where a bike's housing sits, as long as it's easy to live with and completely quiet. If its going inside the frame, I want to be able to run it through without using any dental tools, magnets, or shouted curse words. At the head tube, there might as well be ports to cleanly run the rear brake on either side of the handlebar, one of those smaller details that's often overlooked.
SRAM UDH At the moment, the benefit of SRAM's
Universal Derailleur Hanger is that it's inexpensive (around $15 USD), and should be easily obtainable from most bike shops. That means if you do break one, you won't need to go on a wild goose chase trying to track down a replacement. I also have feeling that SRAM has something up their sleeve that will make this a good feature to have in the future... I'm not sure what it is, but I know if I was bike shopping a UDH would be a point in the plus column.
Room for a water bottle inside the front triangleAll of Levy's moaning has paid off, and the vast majority of new bikes now fit a water bottle inside the front triangle. Really, the only reason I'm including this point is to encourage the trend to continue. I know there are some holdouts that think carrying water is an unnecessary compromise, but that's a shaky leg to stand on given how many bikes currently exist that perform incredibly well, and manage to have room for a bottle where it belongs.
I'm also a fan of the two bolts that have started appearing on the underside of top tube, although I think there's a lot of room for some clever solutions in this space. A relatively inexpensive chunk of plastic that a tube and multi-tool could attach to shouldn't be that hard to create; in fact, I already convinced Brian Park to crank one out on his home 3D printer and it turned out much better than expected.
Final thoughtsThe focus of this list of requests was more on frame features rather than specific geometry numbers. At the moment, I'm happy with where things are going in that department. The longer and slacker movement is continuing, but I think it's starting to slow down a little. There are limits to how far numbers can get pushed before you end up with a bike that's so narrowly focused it's missing the versatility that makes today's bikes so much fun.
I also avoided diving too deep into specific parts spec / pricing requests this time around, since that could be an entire article on its own, but I will say that an aluminum frame with good suspension, good brakes, and a basic-but-reliable drivetrain will always make a whole lot of sense.
What do you think? What's on your list of must-haves for a modern mountain bike?
stay solvent my friends.
Sport has become more popular and the supply line for all clothing, protection etc cannot keep up
Take back your frames, break down the multi-material parts, and melt for new raw Alloy, melt for downcycled carbon items (GG), or evening just grind up for adding to concrete or whatever else can be done (most CF).
www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/company/sustainability/waste_reduction
www.specialized.com/us/en/carbon-fiber-recycling-program
Thanks for the links, didn’t know about the specialized program, that’s a step in the right direction. I noticed trek’s link doesn’t refer to a post-consumer take back. Sparked me to do more digging though
Pretty sure you can send a frame into trek for recycling, but you’re paying money to have them scrap it for you.
It’s ok with me if it goes into other industries, and makes economic sense if this either industries actually want to pay for the material. No reason aluminum needs to stay in bikes - the scrap market at large is already established. From working in arch metal production, I know where to take old alu for $$$, but scrapyards are weird and the average person has no clue where to go, and wouldn’t necessarily want to go there even if they did know it exists! And when it comes to a carbon frame, no idea where I’d go!
As to your point about trek—- exactly, the onus should be on the corp. with discounted shipping accounts and the chance to resell the material. And for the early ones who step up, virtue points for me and the Patagonia crowd.
This is how it would be seen my companies and investors/shareholders.
Ethical mindset will never conform with capitalism, unless the company starts out with it in its mission statement.
Big overarching point to this is though- you’ll walk into your LBS or go online to buy a new component and see an (insert preferred currency here) 50 increase for the privilege.
@mikekazimer , I’d love to see the industry ACTUALLY create an “Industry Standards controlling body”, that would hold companies accountable to their claims on frame sizing, new so called industry standards for components and all the other toffee that gets thrown around.
But you get my meaning - the group of people that will “vote with their dollars” and gravitate toward consumer choices that align with their ethics is growing (myself included) - and an important force in the progression of these issues. In a lot of cases, only after the ideas have been developed and proven out can we imagine government intervention through tax credits etc, leading to wider-spread implementation. Eventually these material takebacks will be mandatory in many industries. I expect by 2040 this will be a very mainstream idea. We can’t as a society continue to landfill as much material as we are, and a lot of that starts with companies (by no means only bike companies) pumping out new & better product every year, attempting to obsolete last year’s. So to me it makes a lot of sense that they carry that downstream cost.
On top of that, making “just in time” doesn’t work for industry that produces on such a grand scale. They are working on Asia for a reason.
Repair and reuse is the most ‘efficient’ way to not waste a product. But we need to see big mindset changes; in favour of repair, an elimination of ‘new year, new model’, better standards in manufacture, and an actual standard in inspection/repair.
Cars are recycled, but it’s isn’t the car companies that do it.
Aluminum is heavily recycled, and if you don’t recycle your aluminum bike, is that the bike company’s fault?
Frankly, the hate landfills get is unwarranted. They are locations for carbon sequestration. Every ton of carbon that goes into them is ~3 tons of CO2 that won’t be in the atmosphere. If carbon fiber is still useable after being put into a bike (not a guaranty), and if the energy needed to extract it is less than making new fiber (also not a guaranty), then sure, let’s get a cf recycling industry going. But most likely it’d be be better to find a way to repurpose old frames, to upcycle them.
And let’s not forget the blame on consumers—buy what will last forever, not what will break.
(I honestly thought the Ransom had been "fixed"!)
theoutline.com/post/8421/smart-tv-cheap-roku#:~:text=With%20less%20demand%20for%20actual,a%20new%20revenue%20stream%3A%20advertising.&text=Prices%20may%20be%20low%2C%20but%20so%20are%20most%20people's%20wages.
Look few articles back on Pinkbike , Ripley af and Devinci Marshall . Devinci made in Canada is cheaper than ripley made in Asia
Bikes that used to go for $1500 10 yr ago were consistently very good, solid builds, and the same today are double that—and inflation isn’t that high. Yes, I do think you get more with that extra cash, but I don’t think the average rider benefits much, which means it’s a worse fidelity/cost ratio.
What would be best would be if @specialized or @trek licensed the frame side of the design for free in order to capture the market for the plastic parts.
In the same way that UDH is great for standardizing derailleur hangers, standardizing this now before mutant designs proliferate would be advantageous for everyone.
Bike evolution seems to have leveled off, and I am trying to reduce consumption, so I've been on the hunt for a "forever" bike and the Tarvo fits the bill better than anything else I've found. I might end up on the alloy frame though because it is a lot cheaper and recyclable.
Thing is, most 35mm stems are heavier than 31,8mm stems (obviously), bars are not lighter, cuz you have to keep a certain wall thickness in the clamping area, where the most material sits and the icing on the cake is the volume split you achieve by introducing this bullshit, hence cost are higher (more development, tooling aso for same market volume). Oh, and harder to design not to be too stiff.
So what‘s not to hate? Btw, do you guys know who brought this shit up? Will be my #1 blacklister...
They point to strength and weight in wider handlebars as the reason and then you get a monkey see monkey do effect as other people see it selling and maybe there is something to it in the engineering
-Alignment marks on stems, headsets, and head tubes.
-Attachment points for proper fenders for those of us in wet climates. No more zipties/velcro.
My Nukeproof scout on the other hand has a 100mm but could be upped to 125 at least (no need that I have found yet though). My friend got a GT Sensor (I don't know why) and she cant use the dropper because at its lowest setting with its ridiculous seat tube its pedal-able height already!
The steeper the seat angle the more a dropper post needs to be low and out of the way as it makes it difficult to actually drop behind the seat, especially as reaches become longer too. DH bikes do not follow this because they have such slack seat angles.
There. $3500. Still a ton of money but not the $5500+ you'll spend for a carbon frame, full XT/GX, and performance elite suspension bike. If you're lucky. And carbon wheels? Are you kidding me? I'll ride them and probably like them if you give them to me for free but no way I'm spending an extra $1500 for them. No chance.
2 - not tubeless ready, just tubeless
It is becoming hard to do my work when I have so many options to look at and compare...
Can refine by geo, wheelsize, travel, material etc. Not bottle cage though...
Top tip: don’t buy used brakes if you don’t know how to maintain them yourself (which includes installing new hoses). There just are too many things that can go wrong if you don’t know what you’re doing. If someone else wants to get rid of them, there is a high chance something is wrong with them...
I’m convinced it’s nothing more than a gimmick.
I'll add one more: companies need to ditch 203mm rotors. Why are there 200 AND 203 mm rotors? Since all the other sizes are metric, why 203? This is a small thing, but really annoying.
And rockshox limiting rotor size to 220 vs. 223 mm is plain stupid. Probably wouldn't make a difference but made me choose a different brand.
203 exists because 8 inches. Yes its an unusual number but changing 3mm won't change anything whatsoever. Might as well go to the more common size (203) then.
Do you also complain about 31.6 seatposts, 31.8 bars, 28.6 steerer too?
Edit: @Mr-Gilsch 3mm is such a silly reason to not buy a fork. They say 220mmm cause rockshox(sram) make 220 as their biggest rotor size.
It's not that I wouldn't have mounted 223 mm anyways, but more so that I find it to be a stupid marketing move and I won't support that.
The only ones which last for me are DT (350/240) and Chris King. Hope gets a pass for easy servicability, but not for outright durability. There might be others. But they are still outliers if we look at the selection of rear hubs in the MTB-market.
If someone designs a Boost hub for MTB-usage it should withstand MTB-usage. End of discussion.
How hard can it be to make a hub design which is solid enough to withstand shitty manufacturing? It is a relatively simple part. My hopes are high though since the new breed of E-bike customers will probably not accept this horrible reliability.
We need more independent "Paul Astons" in the bike industry to call out shitty products.
It is a bit like the good old Jihad attack against the MTB-community: ISIS. Terrorizing mountainbikers for years.
Disclaimer for the young ones: ISIS was a bad thing between square taper and hollowtech.
One of the posters is a friend of mine, I was there when his hub exploded the second time. Unfortunately I have the same wheels on my bike
I think it’s actually very useful for certain people. If the trails around your house are pretty mellow, you set it up in the steep postion for evening rides. If you then drive a bit further in the weekend to some more steep stuff with stones and roots, you can make it more slack, but still keep the bottom bracket high. If you then go to a machine built bike park during your holiday, you can put it in the low/slack position. You really do notice the difference between a 63 degree or 65.5 degree head angle.
Pretty much every tool you need for a bike should be able to be bought from your hardware store or found in your grandads shed. If they can do it with cars then they can do it with bikes.
I could happily go for lower-tier suspension (such as the Yari which seems to be common at entry level) as my ability and type of riding doesn't require anything better. I have had Code RSC brakes though and would prefer not to have a lesser equivalent if i was shopping for a new bike. If i was to go for higher spec brakes on a traditional spec tier system, i'd also have to pay a significant price increase for a bunch of other stuff i didn't need.
However I have owned many Giant aluminum and carbon frames over many years and have never had a creak or issue with a PressFit BB noise. Although, I will admit they suck for removal. If you swap BB or frames for whatever reason you have a 50\50 chance of breaking a plastic PressFit cup during removal process.
But my issue is every single recent threaded BB frame I have owned has creaked like mad. 100% all of them... Including Transition Throttle and Vanquish, Kona Unit, NukeProof Scout (X2). All installed with either grease or anti seize compound.
still on square taper entrylevel shimano bb in my everyday commuter gt grade and only after 15000 km the first bb failed.
Never ever gonna get there with DUB, Hollowtech or whatever new cutting edge standard they conspire.
I'd say it's mind-boggling that you pay > $3'000 on a frame and manufacturers can't produce a PF BB to the correct tolerances.
Any engineer knows that PF is superior and the only reason people complain is because they don't know s---t. They blame BB design instead of manufacturers charging aerospace prices for products which are not up to standards.
The funny part is that then people want a BSA and stick a 30mm crank spindle in there...seriously??? That says everything!
I would also like to see all single crown forks over 150mm be replaced with dual crown forks. And those forks be made with a bias on performance/durability rather than weight.
Tires with inserts incorporated into the sidewalls would be nice too.
And those riders don’t need dropper posts, 150 mm of travel, super slack angles, giant handlebar dia, etc.
Yes, I’m describing a type of XC bike. But again, those XC bikes are either many thousands of dollars with geometry that assumes you’ll be going 30 mph, or they’re heavy as lead and oozing cheapness.
Narrower wheels is trickier but most obvious is less material. Of course a wider rim offset could get better bracing angle so might be stronger...but then you have to design for that.
FWIW, I'd take modern geo/wide rims even if it weighed 10lbs
Truth.
1. size specific shock tunes. Don't tell me that an XS rider will likely weigh the same as XXL. So why doesn't the shock tune change?
2.Transferrable warranties.
If the bike is within warranty period and has been maintained and the owner shows a legitimate receipt, why is the warranty no longer valid for most brands?
3. Touch up paint.
If you're not going to provide decent frame protection out of the box, then at least some paint...
I could find more if I kept on thinking I imagine.
2. Some offer that and it sure would be nice, but considering that the manufacturer has no influence on how (not) thoroughly you check a used bike before purchase or how much the seller is lying to you, I'm not surprised it's rare.
3. Yes to that, protection, paint or both. I might actually like the paint idea more since I think plastic film looks pretty bad on anything from phones to bikes.
On the shock tune point, it's what a select few marketing teams highlight. Norco for one come to mind.
If they did it, they'd talk about it. They generally don't, so from that it's evident to me at least that this doesn't happen.
Additionally, having spoken to enough bike shops & retailers, it's what they tell me.
I'm 184cm and weigh 78kg. I typically ride a size L.
I have a friend who is 188cm and weighs 72kg, his S5 Stumpjumper wouldn't want to be any smaller..
Another friend is about 172cm and weighs about 90kg, rides a size small.
Just saw this, sorry for the slow reply.
It's challenging, and I'd suggest doingnitnin bandings.
Granted there will always be situations where a tall person is very light, or a shorter person is heavier. In the main taller people weigh more than shorter people. One tune fits all isn't that great.
Go to size specific tunes and bikes in M and L will work exactly the same as they do now, the _median weight_ rider of a XS or XL bike may see a small improvement, but size XS bikes will be almost unrideable for short fat people, and XL bikes will ride like an early brain shock epic for tall light people.
I want to see foam insert technology integrated into the side walls such that we can fit tyres that protect against wheel damage whilst also damping the air spring aspect of the tyre.
In this way, I think overall wheel mass might be reduced as well as performance and reliability being increased.
PB Tech equivalent of "Get Off My Lawn"
Agree on Water bottle and Storage inside downtube
bikerumor.com/2019/09/16/srams-universal-hanger-concept-could-make-coaxial-mounted-hangerless-derailleurs-a-thing
If you set and forget there are still lots of reasons for have this: Having both means the bike will fit a wider range of heights. You're less likely to have bought the wrong size as you can decide on which you prefer after buying, not before. It'll be more suitable for kids or anyone still growing. When you resell it later, you'll have more people interested in buying it.
I'm curious of how much extra that costs a manufacturer and weakens the frame. I was very surprised when canyon did it on their downhill bike but not their trail bikes.
how about wheelsets that both save some coin, as well as put emphasis into reliability where it counts...the rear wheel and hub. Look, we all know that budget bikes get absolute cheezzzzzzze wheels and hubs(cough*novatec+non-welded al dente rims*cough). but what if you spent like $60 on a solid DT350 rear hub, left the shitty hub upfront and beefed up the rear hoop? it's a compromise, but one that would be understandable and made it obvious you are thinking through the decision beyond "what cheap shit can I put on this bike so that I can drop an XT derailleur on it so people think they are getting an XT build".
This question can be asked about literally anything that's changed about bikes in the last 40 years. "Negligible gains" stack up and create tangible gains. If everyone though like this, Boost never would have happened, so then your argument that Boost is good enough literally wouldn't exist.
For so long new bikes have been the reciprocal of this!
At least until some innovative marketing mind comes up with 145 semi-boost because it has the optimal amount of stiffness, tire clearance, and q-factor for all of your grountain needs.
Except you guys keep telling us that short travel is the shit, because it makes stuff harder. So those short travel bikes will probably be used on some more agressive stuff than rolling terrain, stuff that might benefit from maximum seat-post drop. Or does not having maximum drop of the seat-post also play into that "making shit harder" shtick?
Maybe because you guys often shit on bikes that spec lower-end posts, especially those that use that common replaceable cartridge.
Every bike should have an aluminium version with a decent build kit!
I don’t want to carry a backpack.
Keep simple & stupid
It is tricky to package suspension designs along with bottles etc but it’s not THAT big a task these days when the benefits are so great.
The kellys e bike is nicely dropped
www.pinkbike.com/photo/19244715
*goes into garage, looks at Firebird 29 with NONE OF THESE THINGS*
Superboost is an easier sell. And it's not as if you can hot swap a symmetrical 148 wheel into an offset frame anyway.
"will always make a whole lot of sense."
The only one I’d add would be Swat or Trek frame style storage
No more down speccing shifters with more expensive derailleur.
Appropriate tire casing.
I used to carry way more water than I really needed, especially for rides that are on trails that never stray too far from the car like we have in the northeast. Out west, long loops, remote riding, carry extra so you don't end up dead.
I drink before a short I ride, that's it.
20kg pack??..fyi they have these things called hydration packs nowdays-some of them are designed to place most of their (7lb.-10lb.) weight close to your hips.
...or simply manufactured to the correct tolerances!
Ragley, Production Privee, Chromag, Cotic, RSD, Kona, Stanton, Pole all make at least one and that’s just off the top of my head.
A glut.
An over abundance.
A plethora.
A cornucopia.
Our cup of long travel hardtails runneth over.
no 24/26 love?
Wagon wheels are no fun but I’m assuming the bike industry will figure that out just as the motor vehicle industry has.
1. frame (+ fork + shock as required)
2. wheels and tires
3 drivetrain
4. brakes
5, cockpit
6.pedals
7. start your list here....
Mike maybe have a coffee before writing and posting articles...
On paper pressfit may sound better but... they creak. lol
That and I'm old and grew up with steel threaded frames. BB's are standard, ubiquitous, and require the least amount of tools.
And also it's easier for an inexperienced mechanic to flare the BB shell very very slightly when removing bearings, jsut enough to cause a creak