Pinkbike Poll: What Area of Mountain Bike Technology Needs the Most Improvement?

Oct 1, 2015 at 12:27
by Mike Kazimer  
Now that the chaos of Eurobike and Interbike has subsided and many of the hot new products for next year have been revealed, it's a good time to take a step back and examine the state of the modern mountain bike. As far as we've come from the era of coaster brakes and rigid forks, there's always room for improvement, although these days technology is so far advanced that new ideas tend to be less disruptive compared to the days when inventions like the suspension fork or hydraulic disc brakes first appeared.

Shimano Di2 XTR
Electronic shifting and suspension controls are here, but not yet the norm.

Drivetrain

Electronically controlled suspension and shifting have arrived, but they're not yet the norm largely due to the sky high cost, and the fact that non-electronic shifting and suspension work so well. 1x drivetrains continue to increase in popularity as more riders see the benefits of ditching the front derailleur, and as frames emerge that have been designed without even the option of mounting a front derailleur. What about gearboxes? That's the cry that comes up whenever drivetrains are mentioned, but although the concept is novel, the weight and added complexity continue to limit the number of options.


Nicolai GeoMetron Review
How long and low can you go?

Geometry

Bike geometry has seen a pronounced shift over the last few seasons, and the latest crop of all-mountain machines are longer and slacker than ever. Some companies are pushing the boundaries further than others, the Nicolai GeoMetron being the most obvious example, but it does seem like at a certain point the limits will be found – after all, riders still need to be able to reach their handlebars from a seated position, and no one wants to ride a bike that makes it feel like they're stretched out like Superman.


Suspension Technology

Coil sprung shocks have appeared on the bikes of a number of high profile pros racing in the Enduro World Series this year, a trend made all the more surprising by the fact that air sprung suspension continues to become more common on the World Cup downhill circuit.

What does this mean for the average rider? It means air and coil sprung suspension options are continuing to improve, with the end result being that consumers have more capable choices than ever. 2016 looks like it will be bringing at least three coil sprung shocks equipped with a compression lever that allows them to be firmed up on-the-fly, which could further increase the number of riders that choose to go the coil route.


Cane Creek DBCoil CS shock 2016

DFL for Gwin but you gotta give the man credit for riding a tire wheel combo from halfway to the first woods at the top of the track all the way home. Sure 39 seconds off pace but he never let off the gas.
The search for the cure for flat tires continues.

Wheels / Tires

What goes around comes around, and big tires and wide rims are back in fashion again. On one hand you have the 27.5+ movement, which involves mounting up 3.0” tires to rims that have internal dimensions of around 40mm, creating a wheel that has an overall height of close to 29”. 27.5+ still seems to be in the awkward adolescent phase, trying hard to figure out where it fits in, but I do think it will gain traction among beginner and intermediate riders who will appreciate the stability and the resulting increase in confidence that the wider tires bring. Hardtails are also an ideal use for the big tires, where the lower pressures that are possible help create a less jarring ride.

Wide rims aren't just for Plus bikes, and an internal width of 28-32mm seems to be the sweet spot for “regular” bikes, allowing riders to run lower pressures without ripping the tire off the rim. More and more companies are seeing the light, and I doubt it will be long before large companies like SRAM and Shimano join in with wide rims of their own. There are also several tires on the way designed specifically for wider rims, tires that are intended to prevent the square tread profile that can lead to odd handling on the trail.

Puncture resistance is still an area that could use improvement, especially now that riders are venturing into DH bike terrain on lighter tires. Schwalbe's ProCore, which uses a secondary internal chamber that allows riders to run even lower pressures and not risk denting their rims, is one attempt at addressing the issue, but the jury's still out as to how effective it actually is. Finding the balance between a tire that's light but durable is tricky, but there are several new sidewall construction techniques on the way that may potentially help.


Where does that leave us?

2016 is shaping up to be a year of refinements, full of small advances that will further elevate the current state of the mountain bike. All of this raises the question, “What area of mountain bike technology is in need of the most improvement?” Are you tired of adjusting your derailleur? Sick of bleeding your brakes? Frustrated by constant flats? What would would you change if you were in charge of developing the mountain bike of the future? Cast your vote below.


What area of mountain bike technology is in need of the most improvement?




473 Comments

  • 876 10
 improve the prices
  • 52 22
 make them higher? easily done. see exchange rate, inflation and incremental profit margin
  • 98 18
 We need more support throughout the community with better trails and progression areas for all
  • 498 27
 More guns. One thing I learned growing up in America is if there's a problem, more guns is always the solution.
  • 21 33
flag Jimmy0 (Oct 8, 2015 at 21:34) (Below Threshold)
 Not really what this article is about dropzone
  • 6 20
flag eddardstark40 (Oct 8, 2015 at 22:28) (Below Threshold)
 thats the exact thing i was just thinking
  • 15 7
 @scott-townes: Wuha, great answer!
  • 17 7
 Scott-townes Epic response!
  • 42 70
flag badbadleroybrown (Oct 8, 2015 at 23:53) (Below Threshold)
 Guns and bikes for the win... two of my favorite things.
  • 26 3
 @DropzoneProductions could not agree anymore, no point in having the best bike in the world if you don't have somewhere to ride it. Most of the woods around my area there are restictions on riding in them, make the "right to roam" happen and it would open up the sport to more people
  • 26 2
 cost is a perfect response for this, companies have no problem pumping money into product RnD but the next step is developing manufacturing processes that bring costs down and maintain quality.
  • 35 9
 more beer and more boobies = perfect
  • 20 7
 I believe too many riders worry about prices, but are overly concerned with bling factor. Mid end Components like deore posses more performance than most riders can utilize. No bling, small weight penalty, reasonable price and enough performance. Also sticking With old standards a while longer until prices drop and using small Companies like superstar o.l makes mountainbiking more affordable for the average weekend Warrior.
  • 24 13
 F the price. I want a better wheel size. How about a 28-er. Best of both worlds. The rolling resistance of a 29er, and the handling of a 650b.
  • 16 6
 @abzillah I was about to say the same thing.
The Trolling-resistance is not high enough yet. At least I feel pretty trolled after I lost 2500$ in less than a year to an 1.5" increase in wheelsize after I bought my first ever new bike.
That equals a price-elasticity of 1666.67$ per inch. It's the price of innovation I guess.
  • 21 2
 I agree...Why the feck was changing the prices NOT on the poll. All you whiners who say we should be gouged HARDER that the motocross community need to get a clue.
  • 13 0
 @brafja, dont you think that serves as an example of how much we are being ripped off? if superstar can sell the same pedals as nukeproof for nearly half the price?
  • 4 0
 Better sourcing strategies for materials and production cost at the moment is what we need most.
  • 14 0
 And we have to improve the reliability, bikes must be as reliable as mx bikes.
  • 2 0
 There is too much speculation. Actually, it could lower prices and still receive benefits.
  • 18 0
 @Brafja

You're right that mid-end drivetrain and brakes are awesome. The problem though, is to try and find a bike with mid-end components and no bottom-end suspension.

I WANT a bike that's just decked out in Zee... but I haven't been able to find one that doesn't also just have a Boxxer RC or something with absolutely shit/non-existent compression adjustments.
  • 8 0
 Pricing Pricing Pricing
  • 13 5
 26+
  • 21 4
 theres no way companies will lower prices when the highest selling products are the most expensive. theres no middle ground in this industry. when a $350 KS post sells better than a $199 X-Fusion....why would companies produce a lower priced product? you see more $450 TLD D3's than you do $200 Giro Cipher's. companies all throughout the industry wont stop jacking up prices until this country stops buying the most expensive thing they can just because its the most expensive one
  • 3 0
 Boom!
  • 11 2
 seriously though, the bikes are amazing. There's not much left but to make them cheaper.
  • 10 1
 +1 for titties and booze.
  • 9 1
 Lightweight beginner bikes, especially for groms
  • 6 2
 Just buy the bike with zee stuff and put a charger in the fork. Problem solved
  • 7 3
 Improving the price of droppers. Drivetrain components are always advancing and gradually tricke down eg XX1 is now becoming more affordable. However droppers for the most part remain unreliable and extremely costly. Rockshox are keen to improve their forks but I don't know a single person who has owned a reverb and not sent it back under warranty.
  • 2 0
 Best coment
  • 4 2
 I could see prices possibly being improved through new materials. I'm thinking maybe once magnesium frame technology is sorted out, you could possibly get weights closer to that of carbon or titanium for cheaper than either.
  • 2 0
 Damn! You're right. Never tought of it like that. Seems the oem spec always leaves room for "desireable" upgrades.
  • 4 1
 @J-McBride I've owned two Reverbs on two bikes and put thousands of miles on them between the two and have never had to send either back for warranty. Proper maintenance and no drama, like pretty much every part on a bike these days.
  • 2 3
 Nukeproof is not the best example. They usualy make bombproof (pun intended) gear and charge reasonable prices. They have high end gear like the proton, but offer their (still bombproof) low priced stash as well. Electrons are cheap but no bling or bragging rights. My point is that more of us should quit moaning and buy something cheaper.
  • 3 0
 Just to balance this point a bit - Superstar started by taking a Hope hub and copying it in China. They're cheap because they are counterfeit.
  • 3 2
 They're cheap because they aren't gouging you for the cachet of saying it's make in the UK or made in the USA.
  • 1 1
 Totally agree, my 7 year olds bike weighs the same as mine. Without going carbon, there must be a way to reduce the weight. Hard to do a solid ride uphill.
  • 3 0
 Agreed. Maintenance is the way to go. Now we need all bike parts that can be easily serviceable by the average rider.
  • 4 0
 Am I the only one that's noticed @DirtMcGuirk07 is riding an s-works enduro with an Ohlins TTX? That was your decision to shell out 14k on a bike buddy.
  • 2 9
flag defineindecline (Oct 10, 2015 at 0:14) (Below Threshold)
 Nobody cares about your seven year old, @stinkball.
  • 4 4
 i ride 20s 24s and 26 for fr, no need for that 27.5 more stability whatever, my wheels are bend anyway... they have been sending 30ft backfip drops on 26 and 70ft canyon gaps, so as long as i wont even get close to that i will not feel for the change and i never will casue 26 forever, damn i am 27 already
  • 4 0
 Well there's enough people posting videos of themselves eating breakfast, shooting and playing with their cars as an opener to a mtb edit...
  • 2 2
 @djdrysdale406

The most expensive stuff is by no means the best selling. 90% of sales in a bike shop are recreational level bikes, hardtails under a thousand and around town style bikes. This is what the industry thrives on.

To go back to the original complaint, you can get really decent performance stuff on a budget these days. Low end drive trains are nowhere near as bad as they were a few years back. Entry level bikes are often coming with pretty rad tires. Hydroforming has come down in price and a decent aluminum frame is damned cheap.

Don't complain about how expensive the parts are if you're sticking mostly to the high end. Yes, high end is going to be more expensive, -that's the entire point of it.-

I'd like the industry to focus a bit more on standards, or rather, getting rid of frivolous ones.
  • 7 0
 MTB is so obsessed and needy, so much ego. so many bikes over the ability and needs of their riders. so much choice, so many options. so much to do. yet so much pitiful whining and complaining. too much geekery, too much concern about the trivia and too many manufacturers tinkering with junk trying to steal your wallet. too much bloatware, junk, copycat rubbish
  • 1 1
 @AutumnMedia most of them probably dont do more then that; eating riding to the trail and riding lol; at gnarbar yea its great how ,much we copy others; i didnt notice untill i learned some sociology. also the consumption society we are living in here is to much aimed on consuming and buying new stuff everytime, everything gets outdated and many cant have that; people or kids your expensive or newest smartphone really doesnt make you cooler; so doesnt a new bike its what you do with it... and how you treat it; i hope not all of us will forget this
  • 2 1
 but ofcourse a good bike is what we need to get decent riding; so if you really passionate about riding; you better invest in a good bike; something that will last and that fits you; it took me till my 21? to buy my first dh and it took me till my 23? to realise i needed a singlespeed dj bike (thats when i got seriuos in dirting) and not a mtb that looked like one; and it took me till my 27 to buy a real freestyle bmx; dont go whinning cause i think the kids that really need it deserve a good bike right from the start
  • 4 1
 Saying made In The USA or made in canada, or UK, or Germany, means someone over the age of 8 being paid more than a bag of rice a week made it.
  • 1 1
 Actually, that's not what it means at all. In fact, there's just a final value calculation of which a certain percentage of the products final value needs to be added in the USA on order for it to be stamped as made in the USA. So pretty much the whole thing can be produced in China or Taiwan and then assembled and badged in the US abd suddenly it's "Made in the USA" and sells for twice as much.
  • 2 1
 Fair enough on that front. I have a belt made in the USA, and stamped on the buckle it states Taiwan. Or "swiss" made watches.

But, other things, say, like king hubs, hope brakes, 9point8 posts, straitline pedals. I would rather pay the 15-40% more for such products. Not just because they are made in the first world, but also a superior item.
  • 1 3
 9point8 is competitively priced against similar products... everything else you listed is obscenely over priced. Apart from King hubs, none of those are superior products either. Spend your money wherever you like but with only a handful of exceptions, such as King or I9 hubs, you're not paying for a better product.
  • 3 1
 Your argument just lost some merit. If the 9point8 is priced right with the market, and it is, than the ks and rs dropper posts are the obscenely over priced items!!!!!!! I have been to the 9point8 sbop. I have talked with, in person, and through emails, with them. The post is just a side project. But beyond that..........if these guys can market a post made in Canada, and have it priced about the same as the competition..........then sram must have quite the markup on the verb
  • 1 1
 They both have quite the mark up... not sure what point you're trying to make. The fact remains, being made in the us or Canada or whatever doesn't make s product better or inherently worth more.
  • 2 0
 But it kinda does. You are paying more, because the person assembling, or machining, or packaging it is making a, potentially, livable wage! I say potentially, because I work in manufacturing. Have done so for 20 years now. While I lived in colorado, I did not make a livable wage.......but that's another debate. There is also the environmental policies the west hs in place that are unheard of in the far east. So. In short, I'll continue to buy king rear hubs, hope brakes and front hubs. Mavic or the better dt rims. Hope brakes. Tommy post rigid, 9point8 dropper posts. Etc....... You can think im wasting my money. I think I am helping a family.
  • 1 0
 So basically what you're saying is American or Canadian or British families need/deserve your help more than families overseas?
I'm happy to buy local when all else is roughly equivocal, but I'm not going to pay twice as much for the same product just because it wasn't made in Asia. I know the production costs for a number of quality made in the USA products and believe me when I tell you the manufacturing cost isn't twice what it is in the far east, but the retail is twice as much or even more in some cases. Like I said, I'm not against buying goods manufactured in the first world but I think the mark up is ridiculous. A lot of bikes and gear I've owned, I've got at half or less of the retail abd they're still making money of me and I'm happy to buy USA made in those cars... but full retail is just insane on some made in the USA products.
  • 1 0
 @truenorthsimon

you do know that Mavic's aluminium alloy rims are made by giant in Taiwan at their aluminium alloy extrusion plant?
  • 1 0
 I did not actually, my old xc rims say made in France. Which, if they were extruded in Taiwan, is the exact thing Leroy was talking about.

I figured, like DT, some European, some Asian......

To get even more off topic, what DT stuff is made in Colorado?
  • 1 0
 @truenorthsimon

its a tricky one, because the "brands" don't generally share this information. I believe Mavic used to take the extrusions from TW and then roll / pin / weld and finish the rims in France. Not sure if this is still the case, or if its all TW?

I know the cheaper DT Swiss 350 hubs are made in taiwan using the same Star Ratchet internals as the 'swiss made' 240 hubs (which are forged and machined in Switzerland).

But then I wonder...are the Star Ratchet internals actually swiss made, or made in Taiwan and then shipped to Switzerland?
  • 211 7
 Proper gear boxes(I.e. Effigear and pinion). Everything else can only be incrementally improved, the elephant in the room is that fully exposed transmission hanging off the rear wheel
  • 40 35
 People keep asking for gearboxes, but no1 is buying it. It's complicated and heavy. And when your gearbox blow up its going to take weeks for a rebuilt, instead of replacing a part of the modern drivetrain. I used to be all for internal gearboxes, but I can see why the big companies refuse to bring it to the masses.
  • 7 2
 How much additional weight now ? 2 lbs ?
  • 12 7
 Gearboxes sound like the way to go, but not gonna lie, I would sorta miss the way things are now.
  • 16 15
 You have mentioned two supposedly great gearbox products. Why are you not on one of them yet?
  • 36 5
 It would be nice to have a gearbox to fit on any bike, instead of having to get a special frame
  • 20 4
 ^ YES x 1000000000000%

Leave derailleur with roadies
  • 7 1
 @Jhou Those are the problems that need solving

@WAKIdesigns That is the biggest problem. Getting people to try something really "new" instead of incrementally new.
  • 43 0
 Proper gear boxes will not just "blow up". They are engineered, housed and clean from the elements. Your car gearbox doesn't just blow up if maintained.

Yes we need special frames but who cares if there is a true standard that all frame builders use.

It is the white elephant in the mtb world
  • 57 32
 It is just all so typical that people throw sht at derailleurs claim support for gearbox, but won't buy one even if it is perfectly available. Then you whine on frames while Nicolai who makes frames with Pinion, not only gives you modern geo with possibility of full customization, but even allowsyou to run all standards of wheels and hubs, even 26x135QR. Frkicin couch activists in the realm of MTB, want a gearbox? Buy one or shut up
  • 36 3
 Bollox, no ones buying them because of the price. None of the big boys are pushing them, it's bloody carbon instead.
  • 39 4
 This is it - Its just wrong to have the entire transmission mounted on the rear wheel where it fights against suspension performance, and turning. Its kinda just evolved like this, but it you were to start designing a bike from a clean sheet, you just wouldn't put it there.

Current gearboxes are too heavy and have too much drive train loss, plus don't fit on any mainstream bikes

Following would be required for this to happen:

1) Reduce weight be designing the gearbox internals directly integrated into a carbon frame, negating the need for a heavy separate gearbox casing, saving weight. This would require heavy R&D costs, so someone like Specialized or Trek needs to step up here, as possibly they could be the only companies with deep enough pockets to get it done. Note Specialized already can make rigid carbon frames with compartments / holes in them with their SWAT thing.

2) Internals have to be super light. A lot of work exists here thorough F1 / Moto GP/ HP road Moto and Car gearboxes that could be capitialized on. A Decent engineering firm like Ricardo could find a sweet spot between price and weight.

3) Drivetrain loss - I suspect a lot of improvements could be made on the existing bike gearboxes, to get the power losses down. Its all in the tolerances that can be achieved at production volume in at an acceptable cost. Drive train loss of a Porsche GT3 box will be way, way, less than a Camero, for example, allowing them to transfer more of their Engine power to the wheels. Again, its all in R&D budget to get the right tolerances, at volume, at the right price.

4) Cost - they will add a big chun of cost to the bike price, much more so than XTR, etc. I'd be happy to save cost with SLX level brakes, and non carbon wheels, and put the money behind the transmission.

So in summary, its going to take a big investment for a large manufacture to fundamentally re-think drive trains for bikes. And we'd have to be comfortable with the drive train being part of the frame. I also can't see Shimano / Shram jumpin to the idea, as it would be much harder to market, and monetize with segmented levels of transmissions, as the do now.

Ironically, today hitting CRC to replace my worn out 2y/o derailleur...
  • 27 18
 @WAKIdesigns Spot on. And anybody who complains then about the price needs to spend some time in the real world - derailleurs are cheap because they are relatively simple and easy to make - internal gears are complicated with a huge number of intricate moving parts, therefore expensive. You can't have both.
  • 14 3
 It would help if the best gearbox designs weren't stuck under patent in a Honda office drawer somewhere.

I own a Zerode, it is without doubt the best performing suspension I, or anyone who rides my bike, has ridden. However it comes at a pretty large weight penalty. Though the rolling weight is un-sprung mass, it is still a cumbersome bike when not up to speed. Is the increased performance in suspension due to the ability to run a high pivot point and receive no chain feed back worth it? Yep. But ,this bike could be soooooo much better without that weighty Alfine internal hub. It hasn't 'blown up', there's not stress running through the system, it just spins, but imagine this bike or one like it without the extra weight.

Oh yeah, Honda did it.

Unfortunately small brands like Zerode or Nicolai or whomever dont have the funds to research their own system. Even if they did it wouldn't get specced on mainsteam bikes due to Sram and Shimano wanting to sell their own derailleur setups.

Essentially what i'm saying is, Shimano make the Alfine lighter, or Sram have a crack, but until bigger companies get on board with it being a useful addition to the mtb market, it'll always be a niche.
  • 5 0
 Well I saw a Cavalerie DH Gearbox Bike in France and it wasn't too heavy, just not the prettiest.
www.pinkbike.com/u/mattwragg/blog/Roc-DAzur-2012-Cavaliere-DH-Gearbox-Bike.html
  • 4 0
 You can buy a decent DH bike for 2000euros, pinion gearbox is what about 1000euros? Nicolai DH gearbox bike is about 7000euros, Cavalerie similar. Therefore, yes we can hope for mass production in order to bring the price down.
  • 4 3
 @topperharleyPT1 The Honda gearbox system was essentially a derailleur system in a box.

@lemonademoney The economies of scale wont come in if nobody buys the expensive ones. Nobody is going to invest millions of pounds in something that might sell. They might invest in something that has been proved to sell.

@mojo348 Light, cheap, strong. Pick two. It is as true with gearboxes as it is with any other bike parts.
  • 7 2
 I don't mind the premium for a gearbox bike because I know I'll come out ahead if I don't have to buy a few derailleurs a year anymore. I really don't mind the extra few pounds (does it really matter?) and the power loss either if it means never having to tune a derailleur anymore and getting some extra clearance in the process.

My sticking point is getting to try it before buying it. I haven't seen many nicolai demos in north america lately and if I am going to spend that much on a bike, it certainly will not be a blind guess.
  • 8 1
 @WAKIdesigns : That's a little unfair. No matter what you may think, gearbox stuff isn't what you'd call prevalent. Perhaps they are more common in the Eurozone, the number of them I've seen in the flesh across the north american continent can be counted on one hand. As a matter of fact, searching Buy / Sell for Zerode a moment ago netted only 5 (regardless or region) entries!!!!!

And then there's cost. There are a lot of people out there that don't like the prices in MTB so don't buy off the peg. Sticking with Zerode, there site right now states they have deals on frames at $3500 bucks!!!!

If you believe I'm over-hyping the cost issue, why then is "improve the pricing" the number one comment on this page?

Gearbox tech is going to have to go through what a lot of tech does: considerable improvement on design that tends to also positively affect cost.

@LemonadeMoney and @Patrick9-32 I believe bring up a great points about "economies of scale" and just as Patrick stated, we still need people to buy the expensive ones in the short term.

I think it's time mountain biking started looking outside of itself for ideas.
  • 5 0
 Guys, if those really expensive carbon frames made their way to the top I do belive cost is not the main issue, but weight is. A lot of people complain about price, and they are not wrong, this IS a crazy expensive sport, but a lot of people also pay for new stuff, and some of those who complain will pay a good chunk of money for new bike parts as soon as they have the money. (almost)Everyone likes new shiny cool stuff!

A carbon frame is substantially more expensive, but it will save 200, maybe 300 g over an Alu frame, now a gearbox might just add 900 g or even more, besides some extra power transmission loss. Still I do believe that with enough investment from big brands it could become the norm, besides it will bring great advantages to bikes like less unsprung weight, no more derailleur hanging from the frame, no more mis shifting and so on. Besides I really like the idea of a gearbox!
  • 3 3
 Everyone hated Rapid Rise but it's like Automatic shifting. It way less stress on the drivetrain. Shifts faster and smoother. I'd be shocked if it doesn't come back as Enduro specific, I'm serious.
  • 5 0
 @Waki - my next full sus bike will have a gearbox and is very likely to be a Mojo / Nicolai...

The issue for me is justifying buying a new bike / frame when I have 2 perfectly good bikes (albeit one is 10 years old designed by Rob at Zerode in his former life at Keewee)

I bet there is a little more behind the lack of development by the big players than meets the eye. For every high end bike how many mid range / budget bikes are sold... Shimano / Sram will be speced on all of these bikes. Why break a good working relationship with S / S for a few hundred / thousand units of Pinions

The change needs to be forced from the little guys - Nicolai, Yeti etc that think outside the box and aren't scared to try something new. They also need to compete on the big stage... If Rude / Graves were riding a gearbox bike and winning the big players would have to step up their game.
  • 8 0
 @Waki - I am not on one because of the reasons stated by others above. If all frames were available with a gear box option, then no question i would be on one. You say Nicolai, but I am not financially in the position to spend 4k on a frame i am not particularly interested in just to adopt a gearbox. If i could have my DW DHR with a gearbox then i most certainly would have one already. There is no question that the derailleur transmission system is flawed, i stand by my earlier comment. I am not sure what got you all riled up, i simply said the derailleur is the one area which can be improved upon the most. am i wrong?
  • 2 1
 @Patrick9-32 - did you see the designs or work for Honda? Thought much of what really happened in there was a secret.
  • 5 1
 @csermonet : You're not wrong.
  • 2 0
 @TopperharleyPT1 The best part of Honda's design was that you could shift without pedalling, since the whole system would spin with the wheel. And indeed it was a derailleur stuck in a box. I am pretty sure that they had something clever going on inside it, but it was no more than that...
  • 5 1
 @BDKR @WAKIdesigns

Thank you. I am a couch mtb activist though and waki is the leading couch activist so i am really seeking his approval
  • 2 0
 @csermonet : ROFL!!!! Rock on then!
  • 2 0
 ^^^^^ From memory the Honda gearbox was just a mech and cassette in a box.

I wouldn't have a problem with a gearbox like this as long as it was sealed from the elements and mounted on the frame.
  • 1 0
 I'm sorry but wasn't Honda's gearbox a derailleur in a box? To achieve what you listed Mojo, and I agree It all would need to happen, the bike would be both incredibly expensive and incredibly proprietary. This is why I truthfully don't ever see this happening. Besides, in my opinion, to produce a robust gear box that would not be prone to failure would make it both heavier than a derailleur and have substantial friction loss when compared with one. Having a human engine on these bicycles makes ANY powertrain efficiency loss unacceptable.
  • 4 1
 I'll be honest if Nicolai wasn't so expensive I would buy it. If nothing else, it's pain in the ass to clean a normal drivetrain.
  • 2 0
 I don't think price is much of an issue. If the performance gains are there like carbon wheels and frames, people will spend their hard earn cash on it. Another different example is E-bikes, why is it taking off? It's complicated, expensive, heavy and poses problems for frame and suspension design. But consumers are buying them. I don't have an answer to that, maybe RC or Matt can give some insight to it.
  • 2 0
 Really? So what would you pay? 15k for a mountain bike? I'm not saying one shouldn't I am never on the "bikes are too expensive" bandwagon but can the market really bear that? I feel like we are pushing the envelope already.
  • 3 2
 Meh to the gearbox thing. One of the things I like about biking is being able to see and service all of the mechanical parts. Imagine having to take a transmission off your bike because it's not working? Also, there are already internally geared hubs and few people run them on mountain bikes.

I know the traditional system leaves them open to the elements and susceptible to damage. But after running Sram's 1x for the last couple years I can say I think less about what's going on back there than I ever have. There are typically less than 5 things wrong when your bike isn't shifting correctly and youtube will guide you back in the right direction if you get really stuck.
  • 1 0
 The gearbox frames don't cost much more than high end carbon frames, but since they don't sell complete bikes, you don't get any of the deals on parts you would buying a V10 or Demo, so the cost of the build ends up even higher. I recently bought a BMX frame from a boutique builder because I could also order, as one item, and at a reasonable cost, the entire build kit. You can't do that with a mountain bike, so I'll always buy completes. I feel like SRAM should offer this since they sell almost every other part of the bike. It would be huge for boutique frame builders.
  • 4 0
 Honestly I have more problems with tires and rims then I do with my derailleur , it just kinda hangs there and does its thing.
The constant battle with tire pressure / traction / flats is never ending. Procore system on the way apparently but back ordered until March 2016 !!!!
  • 1 0
 Agreed. I'm not really down with having a gearbox as my Der system is fine and isn't hard to keep working well. I'm much more annoyed with suspension maintenence and problems.
  • 4 2
 As it was mentioned Gearbox requires specific frame design to host it. There is no way in the whole world any of Sram, Shimano, Rohloff, Campa, Suntour, FSA (God knows who else makes drivetrains) would agree on any standardized new components that would give same mounting dimensioning. In such climate no frame maker (Trek, Spesh) would commit to provide their bikes only with particular gearbox maker, at least not now. That would rob bike makers of flexibility in purchasing to make margins. Then I suppose comes the issue of segmentation of sub groups. It could be hard to make Deore/SLX/XT/XTR. gearboxes. But after having said all of above, I do admit the fact that since companies have managed to coordinat efforts to bring 650B wheelsize, they are able to coordinate some pilot gearbox project. As we have seen with many things lately, they can push anything, as soon as they can build a business case for it. All consumers need is a good story. What I meant initially was that there is too much whining on derailleurs intelation to how few gearboxed bikes are bought. Eraieurs are not perfect but they are not THAT bad.
  • 3 0
 @Patrick9-32 - interesting, hadn't seen that photo. I've a good friend working for a Sram orientated team, to who I had a good chat about gearbox designs, apparently many designs are patented by Honda.

@WAKIdesigns - Pretty much exactly why it's only ever going to be a niche.

@Caiokv - Can shift the Alfine hub without pedalling.
  • 4 0
 @Silliker269 Probably more like 4 or 5 lbs

Pinion gearboxes (probably the most promising gearboxes currently available form what I've seen) range from 2200g/4.85lbs to 2700g/5.95 lbs, but a gearbox also negates the need for a cassette. You'll still need a shifter, chainring, rear cog, and some sort of chain tension device to allow for chain growth as the suspension compresses. Lets assume the chain tension device weighs half as much as a rear derailleur. So if your cassette weighs 350g and your derailleir is 300g, then you save 350g + 150g or 500g and add 2200-2700g for the gearbox. You can probably also save a little weight by using a smaller chain ring, but you're not entirely eliminating the rear cassette because you still need one small cog so I think it mostly evens out in that regard. That means you're looking at adding 1700g/3.75lbs to 2200g/4.85lbs to your build kit by switching to a gearbox drivetrain.

Obviously this is a very rough estimate, but I think it's safe to say you're looking at a lot more than 2 lbs unless somebody manages to design a gearbox that weighs about half as much as the Pinion gearboxes.
  • 2 0
 I'm sure a lighter system could be designed, it will just cost more - until co's can 3D print carbon at least.

Looking forward though, surely some sort of enclosed gear system that is protected from the elements and easy to remove/clean/maintain is the future.
  • 3 2
 Lighter system cannot be designed for a simple reason: cogs in a gearbox need to be made of steel and wide - that requires more volume of metal than a cassette while derailleur can be made of composites and aluminium alloys.

This 3D printing stuff... It doesn't do much for cycling as well as most other industries. It is fantastic for prototyping but not for production. They do use it sometimes but mostly for complicated elements like joints. That does not apply for bicycles which are very simple structures compared to let's say airplane jet engines.

I would like agearbox equipped bike myself but I am notwilling to pay so much since derailleurs are not bothering me to any bigger extent
  • 4 0
 I tired to get a Nicolai Helius but they sold out almost immediately. The question was what products need improving to make bikes better. At this point the only part of my bike that I think about when plowing down and techy bit of trail is my rear mech getting torn off. Not my suspension, dropper, brakes, tires, wheels, or shifter ect. Gearboxes are in their infancy that's why r@d dollars should be spent on them. The gear box would not only make the drivetrain less valnerable it you improve suspension performance and end this ever widening rear hub nonsense. We probably won't see a truly revolutionary gear box until more people try to build one. The potential is too great not to try.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns : Great points but what about these also....

* Gearbox for a bicycle will never see as much torque as a motorcycle or even a moped. With that in mind, how wide do those cogs really have to be? If you keep in mind that gear boxes in F1 handle far more power than Jared graves is going to put out at the pedals you may be surprised at how small they've become.

* Considering again the amount of torque a bicycle gearbox is likely to see, alternative materials can play a big part here. One that makes the most sense by far is Carbon Fibre reinforced plastic (techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20150416/414645/?n_cid=nbptec_tecrs). That's like another 5 years out at the very least, but what ceramic or metal matrix composite?

All that said, my dérailleurs still work too so I'll happily live with it a bit longer.

@dlxah : I agree with your assessment 100%!!! Everyone is forgetting that we aren't just adding the weight of the gearbox, but loosing the weight of the old junk as well. 3 to 5 pounds isn't going to bother me much to be honest.
  • 3 2
 @BDKR - weight does not bother me if it was about my own bike, but we must not forget that so far the kitchen scale has had more influence on MTB tech than the clock since people always think heavy = slow, especially when they pay lots of money and I fear that the price of such high tech light stuff will be gigantic. 2030 maybe? So far I hope to see more bikes with a "heavy" gearbox.
  • 3 0
 Integrated kick stands. I am tired of leaning my bikes on stuff,.......carbon fiber of course.
  • 1 0
 On the issue of weight, the current cassette/mech is unsprung weight but a frame mounted gearbox would be sprung weight which effectively makes it lighter in riding terms I believe. Don't ask me to explain how though, just something I read a while ago. It's one of the pros of inverted forks too.
  • 1 0
 Agreed. And I'm terms of gear boxes, there could also be a way to eliminate the need for the current setup as well as a gearbox. Someone just needs to think outside the box (pun intended) and come up with a different system than both. But I'll be the first to admit I have no clue what that system could be. Either way, the drivetrain is definately the Achilles heel of the mountain bike
  • 1 0
 ^^ @tremmeer less unsprung weight = less mass for the damping to control = better controlled suspension.
  • 1 3
 The guy that mentions gyroscopic effect of gears rotating inside a gearbox gets 2015 tech masturbation award
  • 2 0
 It's ridiculous how people start riding bikes and suddenly become mechanical engineers... Laymen making assumptions on design engineering, materials and so on.

I am a professional design engineer on electronics and automation, not mechanical engineering. I will not be so naive to make assumptions on mechanical engineering challenges...

But one thing I know for a fact is that innovation will only happen when there is a sizable market to pay for it. This has not yet been the case for bicycle gearboxes, and this is the reason why we haven't seen much innovation on this field.

It takes several design iterations and years of field testing for the gearbox to evolve to the level we've seen the traditional drivetrain evolve in the last few years.

Small/medium companies with a limited consumer base will not have enough money/funding to pay for several design iterations (development costs). Also, with a limited number of companies trying new concepts the whole idea will not evolve fast.

One major objection for the gearbox is that we would have to revise most industry standards and introduce several new ones, such as standard frame housings to install the gearbox into. This is much more complicated than different wheel sizes and so on. This is why, IMHO, the gearbox hasn't been able to get a decent market share yet.
  • 1 0
 And yes, I'm a big fan of gearboxes and my dream bike is a Nicolai Ion 20 Pinion, but it is too damn expensive and I wouldn't find it easily in Brazil. I currently own a Mondraker Summum 2011 (bought second-hand) which I really like.
  • 1 0
 Caioxmag - I think you are spot on, unfortunately.
  • 1 1
 I don't see gearbox standards being an issue for frame makers. They all adopted the wheelsize change when they figured out people would ditch their frames for the new ones and it doesn't seem to deter anybody from making new standards all the time for forks, bottom brackets, axles or whatever. On top of it, gearbox changes/upgrades mean you most likely need a new frame if you want it so that's good news for them.

If they fork out so many 10k$ bikes I'm pretty sure there's enough buyers for it to be profitable so I don't see why pioneering gearbox frames would be a suicidal business decision for them due to the cost since there are already a lot of buyers out there paying massive money for bikes.

On that note, my brand new sram GX derailleur just failed prematurely today after 2 rides. This shit needs to end.
  • 2 2
 caoixmag - lot of good points but the intro was unnecessary, particularly because a lot of people here mentioned things you were talking about... not having a degree. And some of them probably do have one and do work as mechanics, engineers, designers in one industry or another, they just don't wear a t-shirt - just sayin', It's much better than speculating on football Big Grin #kidsarecool
  • 1 0
 I'm looking for some genuine feedback here. If you could have a gearbox that was built around the bottom bracket and perhaps didn't weigh any more or less than a comventional drivetrain would you be interested?

What if it had 9 gears of the correct ratios and maybe electronic shift allowing you to seamlessly shift in to whatever hear you liked rather than indexing through? How about an auto transmission mode?
  • 2 1
 Honestly- I would not be interested in a gear box unless it offered clear advantages over a derailleur transmission. In both weight and durability/function. Which would be tough. I have not had a derailleur catastrophically fail in many years. Shifting is quick and precise with most mid to high end setups and weight is low. At any given moment you have only drag from the front chain ring and rear chain ring, two idler pulleys. With a gear box it would be the same, plus box drag/gear lash. Because you would still need a final drive and tensioner device the gear box could be near frictionless and you would still be adding drag. Unless of course you do the Honda thing where you just reverse the orientation of the drivetrain and put the mech inside a housing.
  • 1 0
 I think it depends where you live. If it's always dry derailleur are fine. We were riding last weekend and went through a few mud puddles and our chains were making lots of unsavory grindy noises for the next 2 hours.... At least with a gearbox you only have 2 cogs and can run bigger chains or even a belt drive... Or the best still a sealed system like the millyard bike
  • 1 0
 I live in the Northeast U.S. So my conditions are likely much like yours. Muddy and rain rides are a reality. Unsavory noise? Yea, that happens but it never really causes any real problems. This would still exist with the gearbox. Belt drives from what I understand really don't like mud, but I have never ridden one.
  • 2 2
 I used to ride in mud a lot. It is not close to the Infamous British mud but still not a bike path in the center. I actually find dust to be worse. Anyhew... I tend to have problems with shitty pulleys (Zee, SLX, X7) in bad weather but for 25$ I can get XT/X9 ones with bearings and seals, and they are making it much smoother in gloop
  • 2 0
 @DARKSTAR63 being unexposed to the elements, not prone to being torn off or bent, no chain slap, added clearance, shifting well under tension, extreme durability, reliability, no need for hangers and much less fiddling to get optimal performances are all clear advantages over mechs I find. Advantages of mechs over gearboxes? Weight? and that could probably be solved if more money was poured into gearbox development. I've had so many mech issues this year, I would gladly take a scale hit for a drivetrain I never have to touch again.
  • 2 1
 I'm sorry to hear you have so much trouble with derailleurs ... I just haven't. I just think to pull all the things you mention would be extremely cost prohibitive/impossible. I am not going to pony up huge money for something that gets me nothing but increased reliability of something I don't failures very often with.
  • 2 3
 Let's not forget that we still need a chain tensioning device for the gearbox and many of them look like... Rear mech
  • 2 1
 To put it in perspective ... I would be much more apt to spend big $$ on carbon wheels than a gearbox bike. With that in mind, they are sounding pretty niche to me.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns Zerode solves both the mud issue and chain tensioner like a rear mech issue. Tensioner tucked up into the frame. It is however the only part of the bike i've had to replace (just the spring mind), as you can bend them.

Mud never been an issue, the hub can collect a far bit of mud but it spins off easily enough. Never sounds out of shape or like im churning grinding sand between my teeth! The seals are good enough to not need to service more than once a year, just a Shimano bleed cup full of automatic transmission fluid in the little nipple every 6 weeks or so is enough.

Add to this gear box bikes are deadly silent! No more chain fwap!
  • 2 0
 I would def love to give one a go that's for sure ! @TopperharleyPT1
  • 1 3
 Zerode does not look like the most rapidly growing company in the bike world even despite thousands of PBers swearing by their gearbox loyalty. High pivot design has it's drawbacks
  • 2 0
 Thats because theyre a very small company run by one guy (Rob Metz).

Check out his carbon trail bike with a Pinion he built for himself in his garage.

He is looking to get it into production and was looking for funding in NZ to do it.
  • 2 1
 Nicolai Ion looks pretty sweet with a gates drive and no chain tensioner. Also, for all the people saying your mech never fails. we all ride different places at different speeds. I have never gotten a flat since adopting tubeless tires, but I watch World Cups enough to know that tires aren't perfect yet. You may have never bent a derailleur hangar, but I know people that carry a spare in their backpack that don't even carry a tube.
  • 4 1
 Gearbox bikes can easily be designed without a tensioner.
Gearbox bikes are not bending the chain sideways like a mech, add sand/dirt and that equals massive chain and cassette wear not seen on gearbox bikes.
I sell Zerode here in Oz. Have for over seven years now I'd guess. NEVER sold a new gearbox sprocket, LOL. We are the only place to get them. Yes it's a DH bike but still, the drive train on a gearbox bike lasts sooo long as it's running straight. We have had one Alfine fail after years without service. There's probably about twenty Zerodes in Oz. The chain tensioner spring is their weakest point and they last about a year of solid riding. But yeah. Nicolai don't run tensioners so that's an option. My Nicolai Pinion Helius has a tensioner, but it's never failed. I think belts are still not worth it, the only bennefit with them is clean trousers and lack of lubing it seems.
People are overlooking how cool shifting any time is. You need to ride a gearbox bike and get used to it, then jump on a deraileur bike, feels so primitive and agricultural then.
Gearbox cables last forever also as your not fighting the mech and chain up a casstte with them under load.
The weight penalty isn't that bad. Nicolai make the ION 20 with and without PINION, I think it's 500grams different. But the weight is central, low and not on the rear wheel(unsprung weight) so I think the benefits far outweigh the cons.
Oh and Zerodes rearwheel axle path makes close to everyone faster and more confident, so not sure what design flaws you suppose it has Waki. Every bike is a compromise, pick what suits you the best.
Gearboxes would be no harder for companies to addapt to as different wheel sizes etc. Gearboxes will happen when sales and tech gets stale. It's not because it's not needed, it's all marketing and robbery.
Safe to guess Gearboxes will be made light and less durable unfortunately. So they will remain the same as mechs, they will keep their low maintenance and reliability but will wear out quicker. Chains and sprockets will be made lighter as they're under less load and they'll wear out as quick as now too. Gearboxes will still have huge benefits though.
  • 3 0
 Most current internal gearboxes are geared rear hubs mounted inside the front triangle. It works, but it is still a component initially designed for another purpose. You've got to live with compromises which weren't necessary in their new function. It is like when rear mechs from road bikes were mounted to mountainbikes (which was actually common until Saint came around). For a rear hub it is important to be fairly compact whereas in a frame there is more room and a less cramped design could actually have been more reliable or even lighter. I recall seeing gearbox bikes from Nicolai where they have large flanges machined to be bolted to the spoke holes of the Rohloff hub. It is expensive for the wrong reason. That is, the mount could have been so much easier if the hub shell would have been designed with the internal gearbox in mind. Speaking of that Rohloff hub, one of the reasons it is so expensive is that it is incredibly well sealed. Again, important for the purpose at hand but when used inside the frame, there would have been easier ways to seal the mechanism from the elements. I believe an internal gearbox designed for the job at hand could be much cheaper, lighter and better than the way hubs are used now. It is just that these hubs are readily available and produced in large quantities, at least those Shimano Nexus and Alfine hubs which are very common in mass produced commuter bicycles. So not necessarily simple or cheap, they benefit from economies of scale. And you can't just strip it from the hub shell, bearings and seals, as the hub shell is part of the gear mechanism. Look at those Bosch motors for bicycles with pedal assist. A bicycle can be designed with sufficient room for a bulky, sealed designated unit. It could be a planetary system like you have in a hub, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. Honda (probably) had this derailleur in a box which they never put to the consumer market. B1 had something similar in 2004 called PeteSpeed, then they quit being an elite level brand. Hayes got the PeteSpeed patent, then got acquired by Answer/Manitou and probably had to limit themselves to brakes. Which is a shame actually. The combination Answer/Manitou/Hayes with the PeteSpeed gearing system could actually compete with SRAM and the Shimano-Fox alliance to offer bicycle manufacturers a complete component set. Judging by how many here are after internal gearing, Manitou&co could give the conservative at SRAM and Shimano a run for their money.

You may want to read this older article here:
www.pinkbike.com/news/article2245.html
Check the picture of the internals as well and compare it with the internals of a geared hub with more than three gears. A bicycle with this should definitely be cheaper and easier to maintain than anything with a hub built into the frame.

So yeah, I voted gearing technology but I think the hub in a frame is the wrong direction. Pinion got it right, but there is so much contact between the sprockets I'm afraid a grain of sand is like the proverbial spanner in the works. They also managed to make it more complex than any gear hub so damn right it is expensive. NiVinci could be an option. They use it in hubs but it makes them so chunky it doesn't really belong there anyway. I can't see how something like that Honda or PeteSpeed gearing couldn't be affordable, reliable and do just fine. It's been well over a decade, time to release it Smile .
  • 3 1
 I disagre about the rear internal gear hubs being flawed as internal gearboxes. Mounting a spprocket to the spoke flanges is not a bad design at all. They both have similar needs. The hub shell is over built for what is needed so could be a lot lighter. The main problem is the axle width. All Shimanno would need to do is make a narrower axle and many brands could use the Alfine internally mounted without needing 83mm BBs to clear it. They could also make a lighter body. The Pinion is not smaller than an Alfine. Rohloffs are superior to Alfines in reliability, but Alfines are far superior to mechs and that's without consider chain and cassette wear. Nuvincis are great and could also be made way way lighter in a different chassis for frame mounted use. They do have more drag though. I really like my Nuvinci in my steel 29er I use to ride my baby around on. It's so easy to live with without indexing. The Petespeed design is excellent too, but I don't think it would have any advantages over the pinion system or a planetary system. I think both the later would be more reliable and lower maintenance due to ease of lubricating. In saying that though, you are right, Answer should stick it to Shitmano and Scam and make the damn thing available.
  • 2 1
 ^At last someone with some riding experience on gearboxes... rather than us speculators...

As a side note it is worth looking at Ted James Designs Gnar 29 www.tedjamesdesign.com/portfolios/29-gnar. Its a bit of a beast but has an IGH mounted in a steel 29er. Some weirdness with double chains etc but guess that is to do with clearances.
  • 4 5
 @fartymarty - No, it is not working - it is hideous. Aside of the fact that some dude made this for himself and it makes him feel accomplished and happy (I congratulate him for that) - It is frickin disgusting. Nicolai ION will not win a beauty contest on Shetlands either. That is the bloody problem with all that gearbox bit: trying to sell gearbox concept with this bike is like trying to sell a Prius to Jeremy Clarkson. What you want is to show people McLaren P1 or LaFerrari and then everyone starts to sort their garbage and care for the planet. Put a gearbox into Nomad or SB6c with a smooth sexy finish around, and masses will be banging into doors of SRAMs and Shimano headquarters. The only decent looking gearbox bike ever made is Alutech with Pinion. Zerode is not bad either but it comes with the slight drawback of high pivot. Make them look sweet and people with fat wallets will want them. You must teach people to like something, it's like kids and salad. Inventors, designers and engineers trying to solve things with reason alone are not getting anywhere. EVER. People ready to lash out 6k+ on the bike are mostly busy individuals who have time for a single impulse and then they maybe buy something. They deifintely do not write any sht on internet and they are not spending time studying bicycle technology to the bone. Specialized Epic, S-works carbon XX1 - I buy two! they say. Nicolai? I ain't buying no bike from a Russian! No ,no they are German - sounds complicated I manage 23 dentists and I am off to Nurburgring tomorrow, I buy Porsches from Germans, poor people buy Canyon from them - so I'm off, I don't give a F.
  • 2 1
 Hmmm opinions dressed as facts, the scurge of the internetz.
Here's mine then, I think both the Zerodes and Nicolais look cool, lots of people buy them, some must just for looks based on what you've said. Nicolai would have to be one of the best looking aluminum tubed bikes.
Personally I buy for function rather than what my bikes look like. Never picked up a girl because of a cool looking bike, and the faster you are the better you look. Doesn't matter how fugly the bike is.
If people like Dentists buy for bragging rights, then "I can shift any time, I change my chain and sprockets every few years, I change 30ml of oil once every second year and I adjust my cable annually"sure has some kick behind it, that can't be argued.
IMO logical stuff looks the best. Zerodes look awesome.
Again with the high pivot "draw back", please support this statement with some facts that you yourself have experienced.
I dig the TedJames rig. I'd have done an old school elevated chain stay for trail compliance though.
  • 2 0
 WAKI - i don't disagree the Gnar 29 is certainly not a thing of great beauty. I'm glad you didn't like it.

I think we are still in the "Function" part of gearbox design... and Form does follow Function after all. Beauty will come once all the engineering is done.

www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=155131

At least this poll has started some conversations on gearboxes. For that I am glad
  • 1 7
flag WAKIdesigns (Oct 13, 2015 at 2:48) (Below Threshold)
 I have to put my penis on the table here and pump it up a bit: I am an architect, who worked mainly with form and it's presentation, marketing of building projects so to speak, then industrial design and psychology fanboi. Looks are NOT about personal in any group of people larger than 10. It is a personal preference for you and maybe 2 buddies with whom you talk most - this is where it ends with "everybody is entitled to their own opinion". In a large scale, I mean a market force which drives big companies to offer certain products, people who look at stuff based on references of what they see most often in their environment. 90% of gearbox bikes either suck visually or are too expensive to go hipster about it. It does NOT work from bottom up, when you want to start a trend you impose it on people. When you impose it, it as to look good and have a nice story about it. MTB is men's sport, men judge girls looks and how can they play with them, then comes reliability and performance. 2 years after, you start caring about the latter, but the deal is sealed. 10 years later you start looking for new looks... sorry

Zerode? I don't care I don't ride DH but I saw one in a park once. I don't ride any good enough to care about high pivot - dentists apparently do ride like DH pros because they care and they don't like it. Cuz it looks strange Wink
  • 1 1
 Waky of you decide to try DH, a Zerode will be the best bike to be easy to ride and give you massive confidence. It'll also save you from seeing dentists.
  • 2 0
 NoSkids - I can't wait for the enduro / trail / all mountain / 160mm travel (whatevercategoryyouwanttocallit) version. Can you steal it off Rob and give us a report?
  • 2 1
 NoSkids - what is the best gearbox you have used for an enduro / trail bike? Assuming this is the biggest market for bikes.
  • 1 1
 @tttyyler I live in New England and we have more rocks willing to snatch derailleurs than most places in the world. I think a lot of the reason mine stays out of trouble is because its a Shimano and they don't stick out all the much. This will be debated till the end of time because I really don't think gearboxes will ever be mainstream but I could be 100% wrong.
  • 1 0
 FartyMaty they all have their benefits. But I'd have to say Pinion just for their range and now gearing options.
Nuvinci is nice to live with as there's no gears, just different ratios wherever you put the shifter, but they're too heavy, and not the widest range. Rohloff was good, nice firm clicks, but again too heavy. Alfine would be okay of they made it narrower and lighter, but it's also dependent on how big the hills are near you as it has a smallish range. All the "small range" ones are still close to 1x10 deraileur range though. My 18 speed Pinion is way way wider, the 12speed will be perfect for most, and the 9 good for DH and the fitter people out there.
  • 2 0
 Cheers, I did think the Pinion would be the way to go.

I was reading on the Pinion www that the P1-12 has 600% and the P1-18 has 636% (compared with 382% on a 11-42 cassette). Thats a pretty massive range. Theres no way a 1x mech set up is ever going to get close.
  • 2 0
 I am actually getting a bit tempted for drawing up a gearboxed bike after all this talking, one has to live up to his btchn Big Grin I think Minyards bike was the thing, even better than Honda in drive train department. Everything closed and sealed, even the chain. Give it some carbon fiber with decent shielding and off you go.

photos.nsmb.com/files/2/7/2/8/1/millyard.jpg
  • 1 0
 Millyards is the best I have seen so far. As an aside I have just emailed 18bikes about getting a P1-12 fitted to my Krampus.
  • 1 0
 I guess gearboxes are the most exciting thing to become big in next few years. I hope as soon as electronic shifting becomes a norm, both Sram and Shimano will look at gearbox as the next step. 2020 should be the time for something new for them. There are more companies making regular drivetrains now like FSA and Suntour so maybe they will push big S-es to develop something to regaintheur market controll. Let's start dreaming. But still, brands like Nicolai will never lead the herd. I appreciate their style but that herd needs to be given something smooth, futuristic and shiny to buy the business case
  • 1 2
 caoixmag: WAKI is right when he said, "lot of good points but the intro was unnecessary". Why? Because conversation and communication in any forum (not just online forums) is best served by the CIVIL trade of ideas and opinions. ANYTHING other then that is brutish and is the hallmark of degradation in civil society.

Do you agree? Perhaps not. Am I worried? Not at all. This is just a friendly nudge that perhaps there's a better alternative.

You are free to do what you want, but of course all the world is free to be stupid.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns ... and then we can all argue about Gearbox International Standards...
  • 1 0
 PS getting a Pinion P1-12 retrofitted to a frame is about £2300 worth of work (including the gearbox). A custom frame with a P1-12 is £2500 which is a lot in any currency.

Looks like im sticking with a Zee and 1x setup for a few years more.
  • 2 0
 @fartymarty - if it would ever come out it would be like XTR or XX1. Top shelf then trickling down. Whether XTR is worth anything over Zee is another story Razz

@BDKR - sorry for being an old prick.
  • 1 0
 I have Zees on both bikes and like them. Short cage, wide ratio, and £35.

Agreed. The cost will reduce with time. The Pinion is about £1100 which when you consider its lifespan isnt too bad, its the initial outlay that gets you. If I was a Dentist, or Stockbroker (as those who tend to live and ride in Surrey) I would definitely buy one.
  • 1 0
 Nuvincis are dirt cheap on Ebay. Similar range to 1 x 10. Can be made thinner pretty easy to retrofit in a frame above BB. Probably get away with 72mm BB. Semi heavy but you can remove the disk mount and other junk. If time was on my side I'd move mine from the back wheel to above BB in my steal 29er fa sure. Maybe one day.

Millyard was awesome and had many pros. Not sure I like it more than my Zerode or the Lahar I had. But I like high pivots on DH bikes and mid on AM/Funduro bikes. Milyard was BB mounted from memory, not most ideal.
  • 56 4
 If tires suck, nothing else matters.
  • 30 15
 i can ride shity tires but hate a shity drivetrain .
  • 8 6
 both, but drivetrain will make a huge change to the long term of the sport. Tires are already going through so many changes, but at the end of the day your bike is still going to the shop twice a year for the shifting.
  • 2 0
 yeah i agree 100 % .
  • 31 1
 I would rather run a 3 ring setup for the rest of my life with the best tires, than a 1x gearbox-wonder-drivetrain with crappy tires. You can still adjust and make little modifications to low-end drivetrains to make them work.
  • 3 0
 It's not that they don't work it's that they add unsprung weight and sound terrible.
  • 10 1
 good tires over great drivetrain anyday
  • 9 0
 Dh bomber, go ride some loose over hard with roadie tires. Or some wet clay with slicks. Tell me how much power you can put down on the climbs with your amazing drivetrain but shitty tires
  • 11 1
 I don't understand what's so sucky about current tyres?? I'm not sure what more I could ask for on my fave tyres apart from less weight maybe..? I'm a bit bewildered by the drivetrain thing as well tbh...what's wrong with what we've got? 11 gears gives more range than I need, crisp shifting, durability, light weight, strong...obviously I don't get it.
  • 9 1
 100% puncture proof and 100% burp proof would be nice.
  • 1 1
 Yeah it'd be nice but so would 20g per tyre and adjustable tread for different terrain ;-) I don't think it'll happen. But I've never had trouble with burping and can't remember my last puncture (I'm a weak and feeble 65kg) so maybe that's it.
  • 1 0
 They're not big and expensive enough and wear too slowly
  • 3 0
 Fair point, they are too expensive. Or they wear too fast. Or both.
  • 5 2
 100% burp free?
Tubes
  • 6 0
 Pinch flats.
  • 5 1
 wider variety of valve stems plz
  • 6 1
 If I rode tubes I would punch flat every trail, even at 40 psi unless I ran heavy dh casing. It seems every ride one of my mates gets a flat or burbs out too much air. Tires are the most unreliable part of modern bikes. I need a tire that I can run at 25 psi and have itbnot fold over in the corners and not weigh more than my entire bike.
  • 1 0
 UST every time
  • 3 1
 Think you answered you question. Stickier but WAY lon her lasting. Lighter but puncture proof, TR that's absolutely burp free and holds pressure like a king. Tread designs that cut through and brake well but roll very efficiently. Better cornering. You tires determine your entire performance on your rides
  • 4 0
 I don't know if is tires or tubes, but gwin did way better without a chain than without a tire (equally impresive tho)
  • 4 5
 tires are solved. no complaining about tires. if you're old enough to navigate to this message board, you're old enough to know that current tubeless setups are dialed.
  • 4 0
 @owl-X So, my specialized butchers, on specialized rims, both with decals saying they are tubeless ready, would burp nearly every ride until I put a bunch of gorilla tape on the rim bed. I have to run 30 psi or more or they fold over in turns. This is the case with every non-dh casing tire. I love the feel of 20-25psi in my tires, except they fold over if the casing is light enough to actually pedal around.

The most common mechanical problem riders of all skill levels get on the trail is flats by far. Nearly every other component can fail and you can still at least coast your bike down. Some people have even found themselves on the podium of a WC race after their drivetrain had catastrophically failed. A flat tire is also one of the only mechanical failures that can happen on relatively safe, featureless terrain and still be very dangerous.
  • 5 1
 I still don't get it, I've never had any trouble with tubeless setups and I do my own ghettos, I have run as little as 17psi and the only problems I had were smacking my rims on everything. I don't think I've had a puncture in the last 15 years. I'm not Josh Bryceland but I'm not Captain Slow either. Guess I've been lucky, obviously a lot of people are in need of better tyre reliability. So fair enough! (Or maybe they just need to try Schwalbe HD/ MM ;-P)
  • 5 0
 @hamncheez oh. Specialized. I assumed it was a given for the discussion that Specialized is the worst thing in bikes. Sorry.

It's getting to the point that I won't ride with people who still run tubes. Running out of time on this planet.
  • 1 0
 I had tubeless on my XC bike, minion/high roller TR 2.35 on sun,ringle' charger rims full stans kit. Even at high 36 -38 psi the rear was down to under 20 psi after 20ish miles
Went back to tubes

I am a heavy +90kg might have been something to do with it Wink
  • 1 0
 I'm also a bit over 100 kg
  • 6 1
 Honda patended many things, not just their final mech in a Box. Pete Speed/Hayes I think own the mech in a box patent anyway.
All gearbox bikes you can shift without pedaling.
All gearbox bikes have the gearbox centered in main frame and low, so although there's a weight penalty, it's not as major as what it seems when lifting the bike.
There is possibility for less unsprung weight with a gearbox bike.
A gearbox is as easy to move as a mech pretty much.
Your chain and sprockets last several times longer on a gearbox bike as the chain is running straight and not rammed into the next gear under load or twisted sideways.
Cables also last longer as they're rarely pulling something that has fiction against it.
A gearbox may have more drag than a mech in perfect conditions(a lab), but in the real world of mud, and slightly poorly set up, mechs and chain guides and worn chains and cassettes I think it'd be pretty close. There's also the point below.
Because you can shift any time and don't need to find somewhere free of pedal strikes to change gears, or a non uphill, you are more often in the better gear with a gearbox, so your using less effort, so gearbox Vs Mech the gearbox is probably way more efficient in reality. I shift in corners, rock gardens, the air, stationary, on the chair lift, wherever I damn well please, with my two gearbox bikes.
A gearbox is not really any more complex than a mech, cassette, front mech or guide.
Gearbox bikes probably work out costing about the same for most people once you tally up, mechs, cassettes, chains and shifters, hangers, that wore out quicker or broke, oh and those that have put mechs in spokes.. And possible costs uncured by wrecked rides by broken mechs.
Higher possible chain lines can be achieved with a gearbox for better designed suspension. Very small window of design opportunity with everything designed based around the similar chain output.
F@%K Shimanno and Sram, they are robbing YOU!
Gearboxes are not scary. Most distributors will carry a spare box if it's needed. You wouldn't miss any more rides than if a shop didn't have the mech you needed. But your gearbox is WAY WAY less likely to fail.
Look at DH racing, wrecked mech at EVERY race.
Low centered ballast with a gearbox, between your shins, the bike wants to work around the centralized mass, it's a good thing.
  • 3 0
 YEPPPPPPPERS!
Funny thing is, don't let rholoff's gearbox fool you. A glance at pinion's will show you how simple they can be. Not complicated systems that can shrink quite a lot if the money gets behind them. I want a pinion driven bike pretty badly. Think of how much better your rear wheel path can be when you don't have to worry about chain stretch. Think of the weight you could drop by switching to the (much more than they used to be) reliable belt drives. The whole business of chains and rear mechs doesn't make sense. It is just turd polishing at this point.
  • 1 0
 simply not sealed up. I'm approaching that kind of weight and mine don't go down. Unless I rip the tire. which is rare but does happen. I don't rate the combined valve and rim strip from stans iv had much better cheaper lighter ect results with ghetto method. and narrow rims are way more prone to burping
  • 1 0
 You must not be into downhill mountain biking. On a good downhill trail, a drivetrain shouldn't be necessary.
  • 4 0
 okay there aaron gwin, calm down. its always good to be able to pedal out of corners.
  • 1 1
 If there's corners. Either way, tires are more important to dh than a drivetrain. That's just for looks!
  • 1 2
 When it comes to tubeless for trail riding, then it is a must yea - it becomes a matter of etiquette. But if you run Schwalbes then you may as well run 1-ply Maxxis with a tube. The outer rubber and patterns are incredible but structure is shit. They are made of paper, you pinch flat, get cuts, holes and lose knobs. So trail/AM riders out there - tubeless with spare tube in the pack thy shall ride, and Schwalbe thy shall not possess - unless it is a Magic Mary with DH casing
  • 1 0
 I use the lightest casings. Mine have been fine despite many grazes. Still don't get it.
  • 2 2
 I have small kids, I ride next to nothing, on slow trails spread on 300ft hills, always check my tyre pressure, yet I still managed to go through 2 Rock Razors in a year, 4 pinch flats, cuts, at least 10 torn off knobs. I tore a knob off and cut the top surface of the tyre on a frickin uphill!!! They claim that their latest casings are improved, yet my buddies ruin latest Nobby Nics just as easy and say even Super Gravity sucks in the same way. Not even mentioning how quickly their tyres wear out in the park. Ride MAXXIS or Specialized
  • 1 0
 Fair enough. There do seem to be more people with problems than those with none. Or maybe it's the bad review phenomena and all the happy Schwalbe riders are keeping quiet ;-) Schwalbes for me are the bestest! I won't try and pretend they don't wear quickly but I don't think it's quite as bad as some say, maybe people ride with 35psi+, then they really will wear fast. It's a price I'm willing to pay for the tyres that work for me.
  • 2 2
 I used them for several years now as I love their riding properties, but last 1,5 year has been plagued with issues both for me and my buddies. I am bit gutted that both Spec and Maxxis don't do their versions of Rock Razor in 26". I will be changing to 650B for that reason
  • 1 0
 I ran the standard $20 schwalbes when I didn't know any better and I would get a lot of pinch flats, but those casings are a joke. Now that I run the 6 ply DH Magic Mary on my Wilson I haven't had a flat in 2 years.
The Super Gravity casings have never let me down and perform flawless for me every where.
  • 2 0
 Think it's a QC issue, I have two 2.3 Ralph. Both identical spec First ride evolution whatevers. Purchased at the same time. One is perfect the other was warped out of the box an a bit narrow than the good one at same pressure on same rim.......
  • 1 0
 That's because shwaballs, has the shit test durometers. They have some good tread patterns but doke understand that the rubber can't have the same durometer rating as cotton swab balls.
  • 2 2
 Not just that. Their tyres are lighter by a good margin compared to similar tyres of the competition, while keeping the right volume. There is simply less rubber on kevlar tread, hence it gets ripped out easily. Sidewalls on My Rocket Rons and Nics are idiotic thin, the tread starts to show through the ruber after only few rides in mud
  • 2 0
 Well yeah. Because snake skin is Frikin idiotic. Unless you plan on XC racing in Frikin rolling green pastures. My lbs has sold 4 pairs of Speshy Grid tires because the casing and side walls are so strong. Before that it was Maxxis EXO casing. Around here we need tough tires, no one but the rich morons ride shwalbes.
  • 1 0
 I've never suffered any of these issues. I ride on gritstone mostly, or at bpw. It's very abrasive and the rock gardens you have to go through, there's no way over the top. My Schwalbes have been fine. Surely it can't just be my child like physique? And I promise I'm not just a slow poke either.
I did have a racing Ralph blow up once which I believed to have been a qc issue. But it was also at 90psi with a tube in it, was sat at the top of our local pump track doing nothing and it just exploded.
  • 2 0
 Had that happen on a very hot very sunny day, bmx's in the back of the car, 80-90psi in the sun Driving down the motorway BANG! Scary shit!!
  • 1 0
 @ThomDawson

Ghetto all the way. Ive had numerous tyre / rim combos over the last 5 years and have only had 2-3 kevlar beads blow off the rim - admittedly it was my fault as I over inflated them.
  • 48 1
 What about rear forks? This poll doesn't have all the options.
  • 35 0
 Rampage announcer specialty ?
  • 45 0
 bar caps. insufficient innovation in this area
  • 16 0
 The first thing I look for in a new bike is good bar caps.
  • 5 0
 wow, it is only 9am and I read "beer caps", is is beer:30 yet?
  • 38 3
 I think the hubs. We don't need one standard but at least 5 different standards. And a new standard never year. That's what we do need. Also we need to apply the boost fad to everything. Boost bars, stem, cranks, shifters. Anything really. Just because it makes money
  • 38 0
 900mm bars for maximum control.
  • 42 1
 Vibrating seat, will keep the taint fatigue free
  • 4 3
 So we need a toothbrush holder...or custom tuned cnc toothbrushes (I wont venture further than toothbrushes here????)
  • 3 0
 just use a broom stick @thook
  • 4 0
 @llarrggee Oh yeah and we need a couple of new wheel size standards too
  • 2 0
 @thook see the yardstick handlebar from superstar.
  • 3 0
 Boost? So last year.
What we NEED is Boost+ dammit!
  • 1 0
 It's called a hardtail..
  • 2 0
 looking for new hubs? check out Onyx hubs, by far the most innovative hub on the market! completely silent and instant engagement.
  • 2 0
 if you haven't ridden a 28.38759inch wheel you haven't lived. its the ultimate roll over to flickability ratio dude
  • 3 0
 I feel like that extra .00009 inches will make it too cumbersome and ruin the handling
  • 30 2
 I would say we need a rain upgrade to california because it is way too dry right now. #prayforelnino
  • 3 1
 Amen
  • 17 1
 We would happily export some British rain to you if you could send us some of your sunshine!
  • 10 0
 Sure. Whats your paypal and ill have some sun sent your way
  • 4 0
 be careful with that sun, it will make you grass go quickly from lush green to california gold to when will this frickin drought end brown @Ruffletron
  • 3 2
 Go away, El Niño, I say! It's been raining for weeks around here (South of Brazil). Like, enough rain to make all trails unrideable.
  • 19 1
 Honestly mountain biking is perfect the way it is. it shows in the last ten years we have come along way and I am happy the way it is right now we don't need shimano xtr di2 electronic crap or electronic suspension to have a good time so mountain biking gods your doing a great job
  • 5 1
 In the future we will want more of what the future has to offer.
  • 2 0
 yet we don't like boost, pressfit BB's, we don't like the shit plus sizes, a lot of us would like 26 options, we just want that simple basic fun we once experienced on a bike. a long time ago, in a place called 2011
  • 21 1
 How about we just make an actually reliable dropper post, that doesnt look ugly as sin.
  • 6 0
 I'd settle for fugly if they were reliable.
  • 5 3
 Then get a GravityDropper.
  • 2 1
 My Thompson has been flawless.
  • 2 0
 I have a Thomson that I had to warranty once already and is starting to develop problems again.
  • 23 3
 More wheel sizes and hub sizes!!
  • 1 0
 See what you did here.
  • 8 0
 I reckon we don't have enough pedal options. We need aboot 100 more pedal designs that are essentially the same.....
  • 1 0
 more magnetic pedals
  • 13 0
 Improve reliability.
It's alright if you like taking care of your bike AND you have enough skill (or time) AND you can afford the tools/workshop.
But even if you have those, too much time is spent repairing rather than riding (plus pb doesn't help).

Even with the high end products...
  • 2 0
 I agree. I see a lot of opportunity for improvement in making mountain bikes with less maintenance and also making them easier to adjust and transport. Sometimes I wish I could work for a bike company and design the ideal MTB. It'd sell millions, I tell you! Razz
  • 3 0
 Isn't it amazing when you realize, there is nothing I need to fix on any of my bikes, no maintinence that I haven't gotten around to, no weird creaks, no shifting that needs to be tweaked, nothing to lube or oil, nothing.

Well, what's it like?
  • 1 0
 Acali, you are either extremely lucky or you don't ride very hard.
  • 1 0
 @Bristecom I mean what's it like as in nudge nudge what's it like.
My bikes are never 100% fixed.
  • 1 0
 @acali Oh, I gotchya. Yeah... :/
  • 16 1
 RIDER ABILITY NEEDS MORE IMPROVEMENT. PEOPLE are not sending at all. hahaha
  • 1 0
 right!? enduro is fun & all, but what about those jump sessions and finding new lines/ inspiration from your peers. Free ride will never die! this whole article was troll bait. We have it so good right now, the only thing I could think of improving would be a DH fat bike.. Oh, wait. The Genius LT plus is close enough... felt like cheating.
  • 14 0
 I still have yet to see a legitimate implementation of training wheels on an Enduro rig. I mean, come on.
  • 11 0
 25 inch wheels
26.5 inch wheels
28 inch wheels
28.5 inch wheels
29.5 inch wheels
And if you really want to smooth the ride out 40 inch wheels
It's only a matter of time and the brilliance of marketing(or dumbness of the public) until all these wheel sizes are the best and fastest Wheels ever made with more advantages than winning the national lottery.
  • 10 0
 I work at a bike shop and I can tell you that technology is not the problem. Price is the problem. If I got a dollar for every asshole that pointed out that you could get a motorcycle for the same price, I could buy a mountain bike. Come on, bike industry. Pull your head out of your ass.
  • 7 0
 But you could buy a motorcycle for the cost of that bike Wink
  • 19 8
 Less focus on technology and bullshit and more focus on just getting out and riding. Go ride your fucking bikes and get off the internet.
  • 4 2
 this. too much geekery, obsession with components, upgrades, new gizmos, videos and Strava. REDUX!
  • 5 0
 Geekery, component-fetihism and upgratitis all happen when you spend too little time on the bike and too much time in front of the computer.

For many people this is the sad truth, as work, family and location/weather only allows 1-2 rides a week. Geeking out is the only way left to get your bike fix then.
  • 7 0
 Hands down I would have to say that drivetrains need the most improvement! Chains break, come off, skip, rust, wear fast, are noisy and heavy! Im sure you can make suspension "better" but I think it works pretty dam good as is. I would say every person who effectively rides bikes can relate to having drive train issues. Be it a chain, derailleur, chain guide, etc. Drivetrains are about the only thing on a bike that hasn't changed much since the inception of a pedal bike...
  • 1 0
 try chainless, it teaches you ride faster **)
  • 1 0
 Doesn't work too well when you're trying to pedal up a couple thousand feet to the start of your descent. Does work decent though when your riding lift access.
  • 10 0
 Overall quality. Bikes don´t last half as long as they should considering the current pricetag of "good" bikes.
  • 2 0
 But maybe I´m just a shitty rider...
  • 8 1
 The thing that needs most improvement, is people's attitudes. Riding bikes is more important than having the latest-greatest stuff plugged on the interwebz. Just ride, and have fun.
  • 8 0
 As I've been looking at Enduro bikes recently, one thing is fucking brand-specific shock mounts. Specialized and trek make it almost impossible to change up your rear shock.
  • 9 0
 Some sort of device that hold the bike up when i am not on it. Perhaps attached to the bike .
  • 1 1
 Hasn't it been collectively decided that said device is uncool and was to be removed from bikes, regardless of its usability?
  • 6 0
 As of the poll above:
It makes no Sense that a World Cup Racer Flats!
It makes no sense that 1X is the answer to drivetrains.
Demanding something better from an industry that we pour money into is not that big a deal.
  • 1 0
 yes, i anted to vote no flat tyres, but it wasnt there so i chose tires
  • 8 0
 Improve the time fork seals last.. and make them so you don't have to service them so often. Like car shocks..
  • 5 0
 I wanted to choose rider mentality, but couldn't so went with suspension design although within that thought is drivetrain and it's impacts on suspension performance. I reluctantly refer to Gwin's run, aside from his badassness it was clear visually and from his comment that the bike rides great without the interference a chain driven drivetrain causes. Although upon further consideration to the later, Gwin's mentality is what won the race. Afterall, the big guns are all blessed with fined tuned machines that roll incredibly fast, stop on a dime and skim over the terrain.
  • 10 1
 Obviously water bottle cages need the most improvement.
  • 5 0
 Ditch plus size tires, absolutely unnecessary.

Dropper post need work, in my time at shops, the most reliable one has been the specialized command post, I just wish they made a 150mm version. Droppers also shouldn't be more then $300, anything above that is ridiculous. They should also be able to function with 100% reliability for 2 years without a rebuild and without a cable breaking. None should use a hydraulic line (reverb), it's just a stupid idea!
  • 6 0
 Seatpost that moves up and down with a switch, not just up. They put people on the moon with less technology than an iPhone, it can be done.
  • 12 0
 It also cost close to the equivalent of $170B (one hundred and seventy billion) USD in today's dollars for the moon missions... Last year an estimated total of $6.1B was spent on bikes by U.S. consumers.

We need more gov't funding!!!
  • 10 0
 Ya but they had a big ass rocket. Let's see your iPhone do that
  • 7 2
 Did they really put people on the moon though ? Thats the question
  • 7 0
 That's no moon...
  • 1 0
 Haha. Awesome!
  • 4 0
 Why wasn't Cost an option... seriously not everything needs the NASA solution. The industry keeps researching anti-gravity pens, when all we need is a pencil. I'd love to buy a DH rig with 2~3 year old technology for 1/2 the price, brand new and not have to worry about it. I'm not Steve Peat, I just want to ride my bike.
  • 5 1
 You can, it's called a used bike.
  • 3 0
 ^^ this guy gets it
  • 4 0
 I am +1 on the drivetrain, the only reason it's the standard is because it has been around so long. Our internal combustion engines run on a highly flammable liquid that destroys the soft parts used to seal it just so we get at best a 60% efficiency as most of the energy is lost as heat- but this is how it's been for over a hundred years so just go with it, right?

A derailleur is literally bending the chain away from parallel to fit other cogs, something that is an absolute no-no in every industry except bikes. The "cheap" argument falls away when you drop $200 on a clutch der to keep engaged on rough terrain, and this system absolutely affects pedaling and braking- it is physics, and no magic link will eliminate it. And then there is that amazing noise of a slapping chain. I really have to zip-tie an old tube on my $6K bike to make it quieter? Really?

My next bike will be a Zerode, and with a planetary gear hub I will be able to shift without pedaling, in the air, whenever I want. The durability of the sealed box has been proven, the maintenance is virtually nil, and I am willing to suffer the "weight penalty" (I'm sure my World Cup results will be much slower, am I right, my fellow top tier racers? Oh wait- I ride FOR FUN!). Yes, flats suck, and everybody gets them, but those are trail-fixable. A blown up der and chain twisted around the frame is not. That is the end of your day, unless you haul a box of spares out every time you ride. I love the YT tues, amazing bike at an incredible price especially for the build, but my hatred of the traditional drivetrain is going to keep me from getting it. More $, more weight, and I am willing to gamble more smiles on the Z. If I am wrong, YT here I come!
  • 3 0
 just to put this out there...

There is this french guy who got a few top20 finishes at this years DH WCs aboard a Efiigear Nicolai (read -> 9-speed gearbox bike) that weighs in under 17kg race-ready...
  • 2 0
 You'll get less flats also, thanks to your Zerodes Rearward axle path makes it more compliant to sharp edges that puncture tyres.
Look at local race results. 99% of people are faster on Zerodes it seems. Go for it. Also gives you more confidence.
  • 3 0
 Tires absolutely, I seem to remember battering no brand tires into kerbs and through god knows what and probably got two punctures in 10 years (ye olde £100 steel frame standard mtb's), what the hell happened there.
They got a few grams lighter, turned fully black, and it was a puncture every five mins.
Admittedly they have improved on the 5mins in the Las ten years or so..but now the tires cost more than that £100 bike.

So add cost and corruption of the industry to that.

Simply put its the weakest part of the experience, a risk.
We should be able to rely on our gear fully, bombproof.
Gimme that, for thirty quid too.
  • 3 0
 Something to replace the chain, something that needs no maintenance, does not stretch, slap, fall off, need lubrication etc......Its not a big deal but truth is with the upper end bikes these days there is not much that you can be disappointed with.
  • 2 0
 string
  • 6 0
 The only thing that really needs improving is more to time to hit the Mountains and ride.
  • 3 0
 A few people mentioned price, I agree with that. What needs to be improved are the processes in which bike components are made. If they can create a more efficient process while still guaranteeing the same quality, it will make for more affordable parts that people are more willing to buy. I really shouldn't have to pay over $100 for a spinning chunk of metal with a spring in the middle that attaches to my shoe.
  • 1 0
 @Bluevapor -> depends on what you mean by "processes". High volume aluminum manufacturing in Taiwan is fully dialed. Lean manufacturing is the norm for a lot of what we buy.

Maybe you mean for components, suspension, droppers, etc? Keep in mind that small to mid-size companies are not that profitable (or I'd be working in the industry), so yes, my Race Face Atlas bar costs $85 and I'm okay with that, even though it's "just" one aluminum tube.

Also, I don't have trouble finding affordable flats or clipless pedals in the $50-$80 range.

Finally, the capital investment to create a more efficient process is insanely expensive for a marginal gain. Works if there's volume, but not if there isn't, and a lot of what we buy is relatively niche and low volume.
  • 1 0
 Hey, but besides these points I still recognize and agree that this sport is expensive. So many 2016 bikes that cost $3000 are spec'd with Sektor forks for shit's sake. Now how the hell am I going to drop $3k on a bike with a shitty fork? Insanity.
  • 1 0
 +1

We're called SixSigma professionals, call us. If we can deliver 1 & 2 hour appointment windows to the cable industry imagine what we can do for bikes...
  • 3 0
 @WasatchEnduro You're telling me that there is no way that "high volume aluminum manufacturing in Taiwan" can be improved or made more efficient, it's the best it can possibly be? Seeing that I'm not an engineer nor do I have the mathematical or mechanical prowess to create new methods, I, personally, am unable to recreate manufacturing practices for components whether its suspension, controls, etc. I highly doubt that there are no ways to improve manufacturing to bring down prices. If no one ever tried to improve things and were settled with "well, we have this dialed and cannot improve our ways" we would not be where we are today. There is always room for improvement. Oh, and yes, I can also find pedals for $50-$80, that is what the sorting feature on online sites is for. I can even use Google to search the farthest ends of the internet to find the best deals. Components are too expensive, and if its not the materials that are driving costs up, then something needs to be improved to keep bikes and their components in a reasonable price range. A $3000 bike should not have a shitty fork, but the price of a fork can cost over a 1/3 of that bike's overall price. I bring up an already tired argument of why mountain bikes cost more than a new dirt bike.
  • 2 0
 There's room for improvement, yes, but realize that aluminum manufacturing and carbon manufacturing are pretty close to the limit. To take another example, structural steel has been manufactured pretty much the exact same way now as it has been for fifty years. Not that bike frames are steel beams per se, but just food for thought.
  • 3 0
 The investments in all of my projects have yielded an incredible ROI. Pennies on the thousands of dollars. Manufacturing isn't where is see the problem. The gap between the cost to manufacture a unit and the profit per unit needs to be investigated. Business processes can always be improved to eliminate overhead. It's what i do for a living.
  • 2 0
 HEY DOES ANYBODY HERE BE EXPERT BUSINESSMAN?
  • 3 0
 how ever long rear mechs have been used and really what trouble do they cause? ok you snap some off every now and then but who cares its 80 quid a pop and why do you want a gear box adds weight and its not interchangeable from frame to frame for when you change frames you cant whip it off say your enduro bike to take to a dh race as spares (saves dollar). lets just be ha[ppy with what we got and enjoy it does it really matter if your bike is 2 years old or the latest on the market as lnog as you enjoy the ride, friends you make, places you traveling all because of one thing, your bike!!. surely a bike shouldnt be about sitting on the net waiting to see the ltest technoogy available to buy off the net or posting in forums about the latest components but to bring smiles to us and our friends, make memories and just enmjoy ourselves.

If i could change one thing in the bike industry it would to be have some bloody standards back into it (not 6 different width rear axles, not loads of seat tube diameters) and most of all get soem decent bb standards nightmare
  • 2 0
 To be honest £80 isn't exactly cheap, and then you may also have to replace the derailleur hanger.
There's also the chance that the mech gets pulled into the wheel and then you are potentially looking at frame damage too.
A gear box would solve all of these problems and you wouldn't get chain slap which would be nice.
  • 3 0
 The ongoing issue with flats, whether tubeless or tubed... If anything is going to f**k up your day it's feeling that wobble as your front/rear goes airless... Surely with the amount of space age type materials around they can produce a tyre that cannot be punctured ! I ran tubeless for DH and for XC, the amount of time spent mounting, fluiding, checking sealant amounts and consistency, and then to suffer a flat that would not seal, or if it did it took 4 or 5 CO2 cannisters to get it to... (race over)
I am now running Michelin 'anti snake bite' sealant filled tubes for XC on Mavic UST rims with Michelin 'Wild Grip R' UST...... adding around 800gm to the bike, but i ain't had a flat yet (tempting providence) but man, you notice it on big climbs...
  • 3 0
 Pricing, Parts compatibility/standards, brakes.

Pricing is outrageous, it just is, there's no way around it.

Parts compatibility, a few different standards is fine, but cranks/bottombrackets/headsets/hubs/axles, we don't 500 standards, we need a handful.

Brakes, brakes suck. Everyone bags on the old avids (and maybe even the new avids) the shimano's are no better, they're inconsistent as hell also. Haven't tried some of the other brands yet, but overall better lever feel and consistency needs to be a top priority, power and modulation amongst the offerings is fairly standard and decent, but leaks, bleed problems, etc. needs to be fixed.
  • 3 0
 Suspension Design. Forks and Shocks should be designed to be serviced by any skilled mechanic. Manufacturers should provide clear and concise procedures to rebuild their products. They should also provide definitive parts lists and these parts should be available for purchase including any special tools needed.
  • 4 1
 I think everybody here needs to stop the complaints and start having more sex... with whoever or whatever you like the most. Then, pick up your bike (whatever bike you have) and have fun with it.

Let the Bike Industry do the best thing they know: sell us whatever they want us to buy!!! We'll buy it anyway!!!

Cheers.
Beer
  • 3 0
 There is no reason that we shouldn't have internal gearboxes. We have gone from a few gears to a lot of gears back to a few gears with wide/narrow teeth being the largest improvement! Who cares about electronic shifting when you will still rip off your now $600 derailleur.
  • 4 2
 Don't know if this is normal, but if I want my derailleur to shift perfectly I have to maintain it after every 2nd day of riding. Do other people have this aswell or am I doing something wrong?
It is the part on my bike that annoys me most.

Funny thing is that I can easily ride over 500km with it on the road and it still works perfectly. But as soon as I go off road I will have to start maintaining it.
  • 1 0
 What derailleur do you have? With my X1 setup I went for over 500 after the initial new cable stretch set in.
I've done over 150 on my new GX with no problem. I think you are like I am with suspension, always looking for improvement where there isn't much room left.
  • 1 0
 At the moment just a cheap temporary Altus, but had the same with my previous (+-2012) XTR derailleur. I'm really hoping the Di2 system will solve my problem, one day when it becomes more affordable (I'm willing to pay quite some extra though for not having to maintain up my derailleur every second ride)
  • 16 2
 you can't be serious...
  • 4 1
 I think he is... Lol
  • 4 0
 Full length gear housing is the single best improvement to shifting concistency I've come across.

Other than that, spend your money on superior shifters not the rear dérailleur. And if your gear housing is old, this is probably the problem; new housing and cable will sort many drivetrain woes
  • 1 0
 @Mattin do you mean cleaning or adjusting?
check derailleur hanger
mount full length cable housing
  • 1 0
 The cables come to play a role here, too. When the housing runs through the frame for example it makes a huge difference in which radius it goes in and comes out of the frame. If the cable is on the short side it may move as the bars are turned or as the suspension uses its travel, which might alter the way of the cable, which again can create more tension. In the end you dont need to adjust your actual derailleur, but need to readjust it to a changed tension in the cable.
  • 1 0
 I have indeed full cable housing. My last drivetrain was full XTR (shifter, derailleur, chain, cassette, all from +- 2012), but sadly that bike got stolen.
I think the main problem is probably indeed what Mazze said, my cable was just a bit on the short side, and it is aswell right now on my current temporary shitty Altus.

Planning to replace it soon with a XT M-8000 11 speed drivetrain as soon as I have money again (money can sometimes be an issue for a freelancer like me).
While thinking about it, I always saved money on the cables, buying the cheapest ones I could find. Do you guys think it is worth spending the extra cash on XTR cables for example?
  • 1 0
 @Mattin replace your cable and housing first. Pre-stretch the cable, and get the tension properly adjusted. While you're at it, check your derailleur alignment and that your hanger isn't bent. Go for a few rides, and add tension to the cable as it stretches out and the housing sets in. There's nothing wrong with Altus derallieurs, it's all about cable tension. Also double check the cable retention bolt and that the cable is seated properly in the shift body. If the cable's too short and that bolt can't grab enough cable, that'd make perfect sense why you're shifting always needs to be adjusted after 2 days of riding. With a cable that's too short, I doubt that it'd even shift all that well first time out.

Teflon coated cables are neat. If you have the money and want to spend it on them, go for it. You'll be fine either way though.
  • 1 0
 My HT'S shifting system has been pretty good for 4600 miles. Yes I've replaced the housings, chain, and cassettes a few times but the system has worked very well pretty much the whole time.
  • 1 0
 Thanks for the advise @cod51, learned some new things from that, that should be very helpfull Big Grin I'm going to invest in teflon cables at first and try what you said Smile
  • 1 0
 Shimano stainless cable + shimano sp-41 housing... cheap, reliable, gets the job done...
  • 9 2
 The rider … me!
  • 3 0
 Best possible answer. Nothing will have as much effect as your riding skills. Never use your bike as an excuse (unless you have a wall-mart quality bike that is unsafe to ride)
  • 2 0
 At the risk of getting all serious, I'm surprised sprag clutch rear hubs did not get a mention. Instant engagement & lower drag sound like a plus for any rider. Assuming you can get used to the silent freewheel it's got to be a winner.
  • 2 0
 I say good adjustable geometry. Lengthen rear shock or quickly adjust mounting point to raise bb and steepen head angle, or lower for descending, like bionicon except without lowering the fork. I already do this by changing sag depending on the nature of the ride, but that is a PITA and comes with more compromise
  • 3 0
 Gear box allows for less rotating mass and much wider hub flanges. The only thing making it expensive is small numbers in manufacturing. Retail pricing hardly has anything to do with being cheap and simple to manufacture.
  • 3 0
 I would suggest 3 things:
-fix flats already! it's the 21st century, we got rovers in mars, and Nino is still struggiling from the ocasional pinch flat? seriously?
-10,000 dlls bikes? c'ome oon
-make bikes silent!
  • 1 0
 But add a bell to your handlebars. It helps with public relations with hikers and horsies, not to mention can prevent a collision. Our awesome bikes are becoming ninja stealthy and we're scaring the shit out of people.
  • 2 0
 I'll be honest, I really don't get why people are so bent out of shape over the whole drivetrain thing. I run a saint shifter and derailleur, and I really can't complain about it in any way. It works perfect, it looks good, it's reliable and it was way cheaper than SRAM's xo1 dh stuff. I believe that although suspension is obviously better now than it ever has, it still needs improvement. I'm sorry, but having to rebuild your fork every 20 hours of use is just completely ridiculous. Having 500 different adjustments on your rear shock is also ridiculous. I'd love to see a air sprung rear shock that is as smooth as a coil, has a long service interval and has minimal adjustments. Similar to a ohlins that comes on the specialized demo's and enduro's. You should only need small norrow adjustments for rebound and compression. Your shock or fork should be good to go on any terrain with just one setting. Some might say that they love all their little knobs and air chambers and so on. I just want to ride my bike in any situation imaginable without having to mess with adjusting this or that and not have rebuild it every 2 months.
  • 2 0
 Suspension design, in that it needs to be easier for new riders to setup suspension. SO many bikes out there that aren't. Sad when we spend so much money for a great ride and it never will be because the suspension setup is totally wrong. Please don't take this to mean we need to dumb it down (dual air now extinct) because riders who do know how shouldn't be penalized for this.
  • 3 0
 Fuck the bikes, they're done. Develop the trails, build bigger jumps, more land access, less red tape for races, less liability worries for landowners, more uplifts and ski lifts.
  • 2 0
 What area? C'mon, the development of mountain bike is terrible. A lot of stupid name changes with minimal improvements and prices go up more and more. At the other side, the side of real improvements like more durability, longer periods between maintenance, or more simplicity in all the functions, are worst year after year.
Just a pair of examples: the new suspension coats suppose really a change? no, hubs have better roll and need less maintenance? no..., bottom brackets can work more than a year without maintenance? definitely NO...
The bearings and seals used in bikes are terrible, and de cost of this from good brands are really reasonable, but no... use the worst because people just change the bike when this starts with strange sounds, or when the brand uses a new and revolutionary wheel size.
I replace all the seals and bearings in my bikes and the results are amazing. A lot better function and less maintenance for so little cash.
  • 2 0
 Nothing really sucks. There's so much great equipment on the market now that we can all have a blast riding, and then when something new comes out we can all talk about how we can't even imagine how we rode at all without it.
  • 2 0
 Rims are going wider to give sidewall support for better cornering and climbing. Wider tires are appearing but 3"+ tires need shorter sidewalls so they don't bounce you off line at higher speeds. Balloon tire technology needs development or replacement with what works for other performance vehicles.
  • 2 0
 F*ck Yeah! Calfee uses hemp to bond bamboo tubes together at the Head tube & BB. layers of twine and epoxy are later sanded down to a beautiful finish that is as smooth as any carbon production frame! Grow your own bike **)
  • 2 0
 The only thing I really haven't been happy with over the past few years is finding a really comfortable saddle. I know that really comes down to the shape of my ass and all but maybe there is the potential for some custom ass scanning or moldability.
  • 2 0
 We need to accomplish the extinction of the dérailleur in our time,seriously,isn't this the future? Internal transmissions can be simple,lightweight and relatively maintenance free with the proper r&d,where I live there is a massive movement to single speed for dh because it is SO expensive to keep replacing rear mechs. This has to mean something right?
  • 4 0
 This has to be the ultimate troll article. Why not "What else can our sponsors change next year.....go!"?
  • 5 1
 Wheels. I wish there was a rim I would not dent after few weeks. I tried it all, dt swiss, mavic, spank....
  • 4 1
 more air pressure? more travel?
  • 2 0
 For goodness sake, improve your bike skills.... enough with the bikes tech upgrades, they are already awesome and are getting expensive.. And dont give us that shit MTB's that runs like a motocross!
  • 5 0
 Purchasing straight from the manufacturer.
  • 2 0
 less improvement on bikes and parts
because too much improvement leads to too many standard (that can't be called standards anymore)
and the e-shifting needs too much attention concerning batteries

ride more!
  • 1 0
 Why are people complaining about cost? For most intermediate riders the trickle down effect on tech in the lower price ranges mens we can run cheap components like the deore and only suffer a small weight penalty. They have no bling factor but will outperform most riders out there for a fraction of the price. Also small companies (like superstar) make shiny bits at a reasonable price. Stop complaining about price and settle for old standards and less bling until you outperform yor bikes abilities!
  • 1 0
 Where can we buy parts with older technology? I remember the entry level Boxxer being available under $500, does Rockshox still offer consumers this? Who is making these parts you speak of? Where is the Ironhorse of the 2010's, the $2000 DH rig that was cheap and well... there?
  • 1 0
 1. Standards that are truly thought out and developed to last 10 years, not 3 2. For a pro rider on a factory team to have a gear box bike prototyped for him and then to actually be successful on it so that it makes it to production. Else it will never happen 3. Lighter tougher wider cheaper rims 4. Tyres to fit wider rims 5. Ti 3D printed frames for cheap
  • 1 0
 Where's the manufacturers opinions on drivetrain and gearboxes.Now we have voted and this subject is clearly on a lot of people's minds let's have a proper debate with the gods that be and maybe we will get somewhere.Specialized,Trek,Giant,Scott,Shimano and SRAM and any other company willing to give there opinion.Come and join us on this and get things moving forward.
  • 1 0
 bikes are getting better all the time, think we all might need to wait a bit .. fairly blessed with a whole plethora of options, never been better imo! new frame technology, physics and gravity restrict a lot of what IS possible
  • 1 0
 Frame construction and materials is continuously improving and i think a lot more can be done. Most companies stick with the conventional tubing design (be it steel, aluminium or carbon) but with the introduction of carbon this brings even more possibilities for alternative frame construction. The Italian rim fabricators who broke the mould www.pinkbike.com/news/alchemist-carbon-wheels-eurobike-2015.html (no pun intended hopefully) at eurobike with the completely different profile is a vision of what is possible.
the only manufacture i can remember who have skirted away from tubes is Empire with their cast aluminium frames (which is easily possible with carbon) I cannot comment into the structural integrity and weight of these designs but so much more can be done. Saving weight in places and strengthening areas at the same time.
  • 1 0
 I think the sizing of bikes defiantly needs to be improved, at 6ft6 and a am/enduro rider its really hard to find a bike that fits properly. I have a 2013 Mondraker Dune xr atm in large with a 35mm stem on it and its the best bike I've ever owned just purely because it fits properly, only thing is that when I eventually change bikes and go up to a larger wheel size (still rockin 26's atm) the only company that does the reach and top tube lengths to fit me are Mondraker. Be nice for more companies to cater for big guys like myself cause I know its not just me that rides bikes that's a normal height and not a hobbit. Wink
  • 1 0
 need to ditch the vulnerable old mech and chain set up and start swapping to geared hubs and belt drives, they might weigh a bit much now but if there was a push towards it designs would get revised and lightened to the point of being superior it predecessor. that would mean no more changing chains and cassettes and no more smashed mechs. just sick some oil in the grease post every now and then and forget about it.
  • 2 1
 Still maintain that nothing remarkable happened since Ibis introduced the Mojo in 2006. Sub 6 pounds frame, 140 travel DW suspension opened the way to long travel, light, up hill rockets that were also great downhill. Air forks got better (coil forks where great already) but ... that's about it.

The rest is just fidgeting with numbers with the bike press going along claiming that 1 degree more in head angle or 12 mm more in wheel radius is a revolution ...
  • 2 1
 Cheap fully integrated electronics.

$50 for a switch that controls all derailleurs, chain tension, seat post, fork and shock travel, all rebound and dampening adjustments, and tire pressure. This will be the next revolutionary technology for mountain biking. Everything in the last 10 years is simply incremental.

Imagine descending with setting 1: chain tension is adjusted, fork and shocks are set to fully open, rebound and compression are set, seat post is lowered, tire pressure is increased 3psi to avoid flats.

At the bottom of the G-out in one flick, your bike immediate transforms into a goat with setting 2: chain tension is increased, fork goes to 75% lockout, shock to 100% lockout, rebound and compression are adjusted, seat post is raised, tire pressure is slightly decrease in the rear for better traction.

Hell you could even have it GPS linked to your trail so your bike changes settings for each section of trail, this would be a game changer for racing.
  • 1 0
 dropper's ! Awesome idea which is not working at all ( well to be honest they are working 5min until something goes wrong no matter how delicate you are). They are overpriced too. Anyway local bike shops are pleased - they are earning money from repairs...
  • 2 0
 most issues with dropper posts using cable actuation is the cable tension. Reverbs are more prone to damage and costly repairs. Gravity dropper is probably (still) the most reliable. KS has good warranty service if you need it (2 years). I'm even trying one called T-mars I got on the ebay for $85. similar to GravDropper, only 110 mm drop, but its working well so far. It just says "not for extreme riding".
,
  • 2 0
 Dude.. I had the Giants dropper for 2 years and never once had a single issue. I was surprised.
  • 2 0
 Bring back the threaded BB please! BB92, BB30, PF30 etc. is a horrible pain in the a$$ imo and you can't keep it from creaking to save your life! At least that has been my experience so far...
  • 2 0
 frame bearings, Pivots, seals, add a few grams, get better shielding! make them easier to change without bashing the hell out of the frame or part?


not everyone lives in a dry place!
  • 1 0
 As much as I hate the thought of electrics. I will say I'd like to see electronically controlled damping/lockout that works of a sensor picking up when you're pedaling rather than having barstadized suspension designs doing it. Could also have a sensor for when your seat was up, what gear you're in, fork compression comparing front to back to set up better efficiency for pedaling instead of using chain induced anti squat. This and a gearbox = Win IMO.
  • 1 0
 When I found out that Transition, a Washington State company, has their frames produced in Taiwan, like so many other US design firms, I decided to buy a frame that was hand built in Canada, but didn't cost $1000 like the US hand built and Taiwanese production frames sold in the US.

Then, I noticed that "fixing prices" for 2016 was not even an option?

And, the top answer is 'need drivechain improvements', but no-one offered up an example of what is wrong with today's drivechains... Disappoint!
  • 1 0
 Stuff I would pay for:

Helmets that do a better job protecting against concussions.

Tires and rims should be better, no flats, no dents, no broken spokes.

Electronic dropper that goes down automatically and preset positions.
  • 1 0
 In the future I don't wanna see any cables. Not even at the brake lever or shifter. The cables should directly go into the handlebar or so. Riding bikes should be not complicated. For this the bike should not look complicated. I want a clean Cockpit with no visible cables. That's all I want.
  • 1 0
 I want nice cheap open oil bath coil fork , that has simple tuning options Much like the old Marzocchi Z1, Z2, Z3 , Z4 and Z5 , hell even the Zokes forks . Why do companies think that every one wants loads of supper dupper options to tune forks ? SR Suntour are pretty much the only company that supplies simple functional forks . The cheaper RS are not particularly well performing . The older Zocchis I could pick up a basic Z1 for around £200 with 130mm travel with a nice open coil system where the damping was done via rotating valve system on the bath itself . No seal blowing , no cartridge leaks , ease of maintenance and butter smooth ride after a bedding in period .

I'm currently running a 2002 MXCR air fork with open air/oil setup (ok so I have to top it up every couple of weeks ) it works wonderfully and I get the reassuring Squelchy sound as the oil circulates and keeps everything lubed up . The only forks near that ease of maintenance are DVO forks (ex Zocchi guys) and Magura (oh ok they are cartridge but never had any issues with their forks after running them for 5 years)
  • 2 0
 Frames and fork crowns need to made of the toughest substance known to man......Gear cable outer!!!! Which cuts through everything it touches. And more cowbell, much, much more cowbell!
  • 7 3
 Dropper posts blow.... Amazing yet horrible
  • 5 1
 The price needs to come down. That should be somebody's first thing to improve them.
  • 2 1
 My dropper works fine.
  • 1 0
 Two different dropper posts running just fine for well over a year with zero issues, both mechanical though. They might not look as cool, but they always work. And if not, you can actually work on them on the trail.
  • 3 1
 For the love of all things Holy, please come up with an alternative to the rear derailleur. And Rohloff hubs and SS don't count.
  • 2 0
 Universal BB spindle size,GXP and Shimano BBs should compatible. Backpedable with out chain drop on my 40T XT M8000 cassette.
  • 1 1
 The way I see it we had loads of great innovations all still with room to improve but for the most part our suspension, drivetrain, dropper posts, etc are great right now. Only trouble is they're all bolted to out dated frame geometry.
  • 4 0
 None of the above. Reliability. Most parts on the market suck at this.
  • 1 0
 Atomlab bro... seriously takes a beating
  • 2 0
 Better component durability, we have seen big performance improvements but most seem to require F1 like maintenance or annual replacement.
  • 2 0
 Get rid of PF bottom brackets or come up with a better alternative. More threaded Aluminum sleeves integrated into carbon frames perhaps?
  • 1 0
 Amazed how many people want better drivetrains, the ones of today are insanely good already. What I want is some damn bearings that don't develop a strange creak for no reason. That's progression right there.
  • 2 0
 It's a stupid question, price aside, bikes have never worked so well. Think most of us mortals can't get the best out of what we already have!
  • 2 0
 1x11 is nice and light, but what I actually miss here on the wavy trails in Utah is a lightweight Hammerschmidt! I hate to switch 4...5 gears up and down and up and down...
  • 1 0
 @Royal28 tuchay..however you can't assume anything. When u got the hook up u got the hook up..I got that Sworks for $1600 New and complete bike and the Ohlins for $500.. But if I did pay 10k+ I'd really be complaining lol
  • 1 0
 Gearing without a rear mech,if I break another I'll scream,I knows there's already options,but a more commonly used hub gearing must be a better option in the electronic age
  • 3 0
 More trails and access to trails. Bikes can't get much better
  • 4 1
 Internal gearbox and belt driven !
  • 3 0
 Eww For a city bike maybe...
  • 3 0
 We need more ellipticycles
  • 1 0
 Standards... We need to just pick some freaking standards. I'm not sure I even care which ones. My bike is totally rad, no changes needed.
  • 3 0
 People need to get out and build a new trail.
  • 2 1
 Improve prices... technology gains have been steady and effective but the prices just keep climbing and it's not sustainable long term.
  • 3 0
 Trail building and access
  • 2 0
 Happy to keep bikes where they are and for companies to concentrate on making them more affordable.
  • 2 0
 Tyres - sort the weak link Improve grip speed weight and improve there base strength
  • 3 0
 Pinion & Effigear. Please.
  • 2 0
 Still plagued with punctures and ineffective tubeless systems. That's the most annoying thing for me.
  • 1 0
 try "ghetto tubeless with the flap of tube folded back on its self in the rim, giving the tyre 2 layers of cusion between the bead & the rim. I call it Gangsta tubeless. I've had a few of those classic Ping!s resonate from my velocity P-35 wheels on Porcupine rim, expecting the pinch flat, but still raging on! Also, run a bit more pressure **)
  • 2 0
 Greaseless bearings that play well in water! Rain? Dirt? Muddy clay? Using a firehose to clean your bike? No problem!
  • 1 0
 I think that the stuff we currently have is awesome, and I think at this point its time to start making production of components less expensive and more affordable
  • 1 0
 the music is still the biggest problem. followed by the jokes. the bikes are great, getting better each day. the trails are great. it's the people, it's always the people.
  • 1 0
 Easy: helmets. 10 years from now they're going to look at our helmets the same way we look at those old roadie leather helmets, with a cringe.
  • 2 0
 Bikes are pretty awesome at the mo, but I would love a 1x narrow wide chainring that lasts more than 4 months...
  • 3 0
 Gearboxes! They shood go in masses
  • 1 0
 This isn't technology but there is some major scope to make some good knee/shin guards & strong shoes for dirt jumping that protects your ankles
  • 1 0
 Maybe i don't ride enough to judge the components I have, but more reasonable prices would be good... I feel that if components cost less more people would ride.
  • 1 1
 We need people to shut up and ride their bikes more and not spend time moaning! The world would be a happier place! It's 5:36 am here and I'm off out riding!!!!
  • 3 0
 I think we need to have people stop claiming about the rides they go on for no reason at all.... >O ) does that look like a face?
  • 1 0
 Carbon 3d manufacturing is the future. That should drop the cost for carbon dramatically.
  • 2 1
 Can we please get rid of chain slap entirely before we worry about electronic shit
  • 2 0
 Price; figure out how to get it down to within our galaxy.
  • 1 0
 improve your skill bro, your strenght, balance.. mountain biking is effort, fun, and also work hard..
  • 2 0
 If only there was a wheel size in between 26 and 27.5
  • 1 0
 Don't say that... they'll force it onto us... lol
  • 1 0
 no means no....or will it? : l
  • 2 0
 I bet most of the people who voted "Tires", don't ride Maxxis
  • 1 0
 Maxxis makes a great tire, my only complaint is that the side knobs on the minion line get torn off extremely quickly. At least they don't roll off the rim very easily.
  • 3 0
 Durability of tires.
  • 2 1
 I KNOW!!!! All new bikes NEED a CRACK dispenser for those who NEED to pay the same as a used car for a bicycle.
  • 1 1
 I think we need a NEW WHEEL-SIZE... Let's got for the 28.125' Standard! But everybody needs to agree, that all other sizes should disapear on the MTB-Market... 'aight?
  • 2 0
 Why is "the rider" not listed? My bike is so much more advanced than I am.
  • 2 0
 Just make stuff that doesn't break. Many Thanks
  • 1 0
 Yep, fcuk this weight weeny marketing crap, build em BMX tuff FFS.
  • 1 0
 I'm personally in for developments and new standards in wheels size and hub widths.
  • 1 0
 Heat seeking missiles, rocket boosters and racing stripes for faster lap times!
  • 1 0
 Reliable droppers that can be serviced easily. $100 a year just to service my f*cking seatpost? What have we come to?
  • 2 0
 environmental impact produced by bikes manufacturing. Technology
  • 2 0
 EXTERNAL DRIVE-TRAINS STILL! C'MON
  • 1 0
 About time there was some progress in developing decent bar mounts for the laser guns.
  • 2 0
 Durability. In almost every component.
  • 3 0
 Give us 26" back!
  • 1 0
 A good electronic rear shock would eliminate the need for fancy rear suspension linkages.
  • 2 0
 The current technology is superb! Just need more time to RideOn!
  • 1 0
 tubes and tyres, improvement on a drive train will mean absolutely nothing if you have a flat....
  • 1 0
 Would've liked to see an option for shock service period extension. 30 hours for a rear is way to often.
  • 1 0
 customization of dampers to weight of the rider. sell maintenance vs. new parts.
  • 1 0
 Helmet technology. It needs to step it up another notch. G-form did good on coming up with new protective gear.
  • 2 1
 the DHF in 27.5 FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 DHF in 27.5 x 2.6 would be great
  • 2 1
 Still waiting for a good affordable gearbox
  • 1 0
 More handlebar diameter standards, simply not enough maybe like a 33mm???
  • 1 0
 Cheaper dropper posts please.
  • 1 0
 we really need to get rid of chains... and their constant maintenance!!
  • 1 0
 oooh, just UP your bike skills, that always works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 2 1
 Helmet technology is god-aweful still...
  • 1 2
 The best thing I ever did was put my 3000 dollar bike in storage and picked up a 2000 dollar dirt bike. you get the best 10 min of mtn biking for 3 hrs non stop
  • 1 0
 Make a tost/sandwich cage next to water bottle cage
  • 1 0
 my bike's fine. My skills on the bike need the most improvement.
  • 1 0
 I think the frames could have retractable wings... for the long jumps =)
  • 1 0
 I think lower prices would be the best improvement.
  • 1 0
 Forks because then i might be able to get my very own fox 40
  • 1 0
 "Same idea improve the prices"
  • 1 0
 Tires. We need fast-rolling, durable, and grippy tires.
  • 1 0
 Would like to see more dual piston mechanical brakes.
  • 1 0
 You had me going for a second there.
  • 1 0
 Keep making 26" stuff so I can upgrade to new 26" stuff when it breaks
  • 1 0
 i really want to see freewheeling mechanisms with much lower drag.
  • 1 0
 Brake rotors that stay straight.
  • 1 0
 tires and tubes.the tires blow-out always happen to me.
  • 1 0
 Telescopic forks are pretty primitive too. Why we still on them again?
  • 2 0
 Gearboxes ftw.
  • 1 0
 Bos suspension customer service
  • 3 2
 You forgot hubs sizes..
  • 1 1
 carbon axles
  • 1 0
 May as well get that carbon chain.
  • 2 2
 Better consumers that don't expect the best quality for no money....
  • 7 0
 I'm pretty sure the western world is plenty good at being consumers. Probably too good. Almost certainly too good
  • 2 1
 make a 5" DH bike
  • 4 1
 DH fixie unicycle with brakes
  • 1 0
 Drum brakes?
  • 1 0
 Protection????
  • 1 1
 More informative mtb websites......
  • 1 0
 Local trails.
  • 1 0
 E) All of the Above
  • 1 0
 Bar ends
  • 7 10
 We need a reliable and durable travel adjustment system for air sprung forks, having minimal impact on suspension performace.
  • 3 2
 It's called dpa you weirdo.
  • 6 0
 Some one hasnt tried the pike rct3 dual position, that thing is a crown jewel.
  • 3 1
 it's called a Pike.
  • 1 1
 Shame pikes are always breaking.
Who uses travel adjust anyway?
  • 1 0
 Makes perfect sense as bikes are getting slacker. Most of us still climb!
  • 1 1
 Disagree
  • 1 2
 Pedals, something to get the control of clipless with the ease of flats.
  • 1 0
 That would be a flat pedal with longer pins, such as the diety bladerunner, DMR vaults, raceface atlas etc
  • 1 1
 Riders
  • 2 4
 everything can be better but i think wheels could be lighter
  • 2 0
 lighter tires would be nice. maybe canvas with a layer of rubber?
  • 2 0
 Wheels have already dropped so much weight the last decade. DH tyres are still heavy though. Wonder if this +size will bring changes to the structure and weight of the tyres. Would be nice.
  • 4 0
 hemp tires
  • 1 1
 People skidding to get high. Good for tyre sales though
  • 1 0
 smoke 'um once you rode 'um
  • 4 0
 I like Hemp tires maybe even hemp carbon layup

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