Push ACS-3 Coil Spring Conversion Kit - First Look

Jul 17, 2017 at 21:51
by Mike Kazimer  
Push ACS3

When Push introduced their coil-sprung ElevenSix shock back in 2015, it wasn't long before they started hearing the question, “When are you going to make a fork?” That still hasn't happened, but the Colorado-based company's release of their new ACS-3 coil spring conversion kit could help to satiate some of that demand. The kit replaces the air spring in a Fox 36 or a RockShox Pike, and features a pneumatic bump stop that can be set between 5-50 psi to adjust the amount of end-stroke ramp up.
Push ACS-3 Coil Conversion Kit• Manufactured entirely in the USA
• Pneumatic bump stop, seven spring rates
• 2015-2017 Fox 36 Float or TALAS 160mm kits are available now
• Fox 36 140, 150 and 170mm travel models and 2018 140 -170mm kits arrive in late July.
• RockShox Pike kits coming soon
• MSRP $389 USD
www.pushindustries.com

Why would someone pull apart a perfectly good air-sprung fork to drop in a coil conversion kit? It comes down to small bump sensitivity - as refined as today's air-sprung options are, for the most part they still don't quite match the feel of a coil. They're closer than ever, but on the trail the difference is noticeable. Of course, a coil is heavier than air, and the ACS-3 will add 210-285 grams to a Fox 36 Float, or between 65-150 grams to a 36 TALAS, all while leaving your wallet $389 lighter.

There's also the fact that dialing in the correct spring rate is a little trickier with a coil fork, since it's not as easy as just adding or subtracting a few pounds of air. To that end, Push will be offering seven different springs rates in 5-pound increments that will accommodate riders between 125-230 pounds, with two firmer rates in the works that will be available in August.

Push ACS3
Push aren't the first company to offer a coil conversion, but the pneumatic bump stop does set their kit apart from the options currently on the market. The air pressure is adjusted via a Shrader valve on the top cap, and can be set between 5-50 psi
Push ACS3
The red portion of the ACS-3 allows the spring to rotate under compression, while the mechanical negative spring underneath is designed to provide a predictable top out. The lower plunger assembly is 100% CNC machined by Push.

.
Installation


What if I want to switch back to air?

It is possible to uninstall the ACS-3, but it's not as easy as pulling it out and putting the original air spring back in – the inside of the stanchion tube needs to be free of any imperfections, and after riding with a spring bouncing around inside there's a good chance that won't be the case. What does that mean? Well, if it's a FLOAT fork, a new CSU will be required, or there's the option of installing a TALAS air cartridge instead. In either case, it's something to keep in mind before making the conversion, but Push are confident that riders won't want to go back after switching.


Push ACS3
Push will initially be offering seven different spring rates, with two more on the way.

Initial Impressions

I'm in the midst of testing Niner's 'Push Edition' RIP 9 RDO, which came equipped with an ElevenSix shock and a Fox 36 Float that had an early version of the ACS-3 installed. It's quite the suspension combo, and I've found myself purposely aiming for the roughest sections of trail simply because of how ridiculously plush and smooth it feels - it makes you want to blast full speed into a chunky rock garden just to see what will happen. The coil-sprung fork and shock work together to create a sort of 'hover bike' sensation, one where you can feel the ground underneath you, but the impacts are muted enough that it feels like you're gliding right over them. I'm still experimenting with different settings as far as air pressure in the bump stop goes, but lately 20 psi has been working for me - there's enough ramp up to provide a supportive end stroke and eliminate any harsh bottoming out.

So, is it worth it? That's the big question, and I need to put in some more ride time in before making a more definitive answer. Of course, there's no getting around the fact that $389 is a hefty chunk of change, especially when the Fox 36 and the RockShox Pike both work very well in their stock configurations. That being said, there is something special about the way a coil sprung fork feels out on the trail, and I can see riders purchasing the ACS-3 to breathe new life into a fork that's lost some of its luster.


253 Comments

  • + 307
 My kids will understand why they can't get new clothes for school this year.
  • - 69
flag enrico650 (Jul 18, 2017 at 10:14) (Below Threshold)
 So, what is the weight penalty?
  • + 3
 @enrico650: FOX 36 TALAS 160mm fork: the ACS-3 kit adds 65gr-150gr depending on spring rate
FOX 36 FLOAT 160mm fork: the ACS-3 kit adds 210gr-285gr depending on spring rate
  • + 49
 @enrico650: one heavy poo.
  • + 29
 @enrico650: reading the article will tell you lol
  • + 10
 Please Please Please make a Conversion kit for us who have the very average Pike Dual Position fork due to the fact it doesn't perform very well and we are stuck with a fork that's hard to sell to anyone else!
  • - 1
 @heavyp: just put a solo air spring in it
  • + 3
 @allenfstar: Not that easy unfortunately...
  • + 2
 @allenfstar: I would love to convert my dual position pikes but apparently on the inside of the lowers there is an extra part or a dimple or something I heard that is what makes it possible to be a dual position fork, so if you used solo legs and internals the air would leak. Someone explain in laymans terms ?
  • + 3
 @heavyp: solo air innerliga has the dimple to balance positive and negative airspring. DP forks dont have this so a solo airspring shaft won't work.

Modifying a solo air shaft into a dual-air style shaft with a valve at the bottom of the leg might be a work around but getting an older lyrik spring assembly or the TF-tuned one is probably the way to go( if you have non boost forks).
  • + 1
 @heavyp: I converted my solo air to 130-160mm dual position, and works like a charm.
  • + 0
 @readingracing: Im on about the other way round Dual Position converted to a Solo it cant be done unfortunately making a not so great fork hard to sell as no one really wants to buy them plus they have a different offset as they are off a Giant Reign which kinda suck. basically destined for the garbage or the garage wall.
  • + 3
 @heavyp: dunno what you doing wrong but mine works a treat - at 130 or 160.
  • + 2
 Best comment of the year!
  • + 0
 @cyrways: that's a very light poo
  • + 3
 @headshot: the internet told him it doesn't perform as well so he firmly believes it. I'm running one and don't understand why the f*ck you wouldn't like that fork...
  • + 1
 @mollow: I'm a heavier rider and I feel it's not the best for compared to the solo and fox I have tried to be honest and I don't use the lower travel settings at all. It's. Ithjnb to do with the internet it's a great fork but I know there are better forks and I would like to change it up.
  • + 0
 My kids were never born, they're all knowing.
  • + 1
 @heavyp: Out of curiosity how do you "know" the dual position isn't as good as others? Where is an actual review of a dual position and a solo air where they give weighted reasoning that indicates one is better than the other?

I'm genuinely interested, the only neg I've ever truly known was originally you couldn't get volume spacers for the dual position. So that was truly a negative. But they have since addressed that issue.

The only other negative reviews I've heard are off hand comments on the interwebs, and you are saying that's not where your getting your info. Heck, many of the negative comments I even see are from people who haven't ridden them....???

Also, you can for sure swap out your lowers if you don't like the offset?
  • + 3
 Spend half the cost of a fork to "upgrade" it? Seems legit....I'll ride it to my money farm where cash grows on trees....
  • + 1
 @EastCoastDHer: Planning for financial success, meeeeee tooooooo!
  • + 1
 @EastCoastDHer: they are from colo. money is growing on trees there right now
  • + 92
 Long live Marzocchi
  • + 70
 Everyone already went black stanchions, now spring and just throw 20mm axle and we are back on good old (hopefully not leaky) 66S
  • + 23
 @kanasasa: Well since 20mm boost is on the way, I'll soon be able to buy a new coil sprung, 20mm 180mm travel fork. That makes me happy.
  • + 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: Why do you say 20mm boost is on the way?
  • + 18
 I pushed on an old coil sprung / open bath Marzocchi the other day- It felt so much smoother than my Pike.
  • + 24
 #Coilaintdead
  • + 4
 @travduant: 49 is already using it.
  • + 8
 Marz 350 c2r2 can do it lighter
  • + 2
 @Fix-the-Spade: I run a 20mm Fox 36 on my boost 29er. Do the math with the spoke angles and tension vs. a Boost setup at 15mm axle and you will go 20mm axle everytime. Particularly when you calculate the stiffness of 4 bolts clamping on the larger axle.at what, a 20gram weight penalty?

Tire clearance on my 38mm CF rim with a 2.5 WT DHF is plenty spacious for mud clearance.
  • + 4
 just ordered a 380 ti coil sprung in sales to replace my old 888 ti. Ti sprung is even nicer than the steels Smile
  • + 15
 @travduant: Because Greg Minnaar is winning world cups on a fork with 20x110 boost spacing already. Even if he wasn't it's the next logical step, 20x110 existed and all was gravy, so they made 15x100 and put it on everything because it was 'lighter,' then they made 15x110 with the excuse that it made the wheels stronger, now we're going back to 20x110 because it's even stronger-er. Of course it's slightly different hub spacing to 'legacy' 20x110 because nothing is ever simple, but a $10 adapter can make old 20mm wheels fit 20mm Boost, so I'll take it.
  • + 9
 My Marzocchi 55r from '08 is still plush and stiff.
  • + 15
 My thoughts exactly, so buy a fox 36 for more than a Marzocchi 350ti, spend an extra wad of cash and the you finally get a fork that feels as good as the Marzocchi and works in an identical manner (minus the fox damper) but weighs more and no longer carries a fox backed warranty... thanks but I'm running Marzocchi coils on both my enduro and dh and see no reason to buy anything different (unless I wanted to build a 29er I guess)
  • + 2
 @medardlefevre: THIS ^^^
  • + 3
 @CONomad: AND THIS ^^^
  • + 0
 @travduant:

Right out of his ass...
  • + 1
 @axleworthington: Sure, but does it do a better job of keeping your wheel in contact with the ground?

Not trying to be snarky. Just asking an honest question.
  • + 11
 @hllclmbr: The answer is yes but also no. The damper is more important than the spring to keep the front wheel planted, coil or air if the damper isn't set up right you will get a harsh ride and the front wheel will bounce. But, coil springs are very smooth, particularly at that turn around point from compression to rebound and back again. Coils also don't ramp up, they behave the same whether a hit happens 1/3rd into the the travel or 2/3rds so they track the ground extremely well. Air springs are not as smooth, they get harder to move the further into the ravel you go and the air piston(s) creates drag on account of the extra seals needed. The very best ones are close (like Bos forks) but tend to be correspondingly high upkeep to keep the smooth feel.
.
The trade off is that coils don't control bottom out at all, they won't 'catch' you the same way all air forks do, so the damper has to have very good high speed compression/rebound or the fork will pack down. The other big trade off is that coil forks are much harder to tune to each rider, you can't just add/remove air to change the ride, you need new parts. That's what killed off mass market coil forks more than anything, the need to stock five different springs for each model to cover the weight range of riders. I really like coil forks, they seem to work better the faster you go, but they do require more time and money to get set right.
  • + 7
 I am going to be giggling my ass off while I ride my plush-as-hell 55 today.
  • + 5
 @medardlefevre: Seriously? That particular model and year was notoriously bad, think it was the year all manufacturing was moved to Taiwan and they had some serious quality control issues. I had one myself and had to get it converted by windwave. The 350ti however was a work of art...
  • - 2
 @axleworthington: Yes they are plush, and they bottom out when you hit the brakes.
  • + 2
 #20mmaxleaintdead
  • + 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: You have always been able to - Fox Van (:
  • + 3
 @Fix-the-Spade: some coil forks do have bottom out control, the 380 has an elastomer like the air bottom out in the push above, you can trim it to set it as standard can be bit too much. Older forks used oil levels in open baths to change air volume which acts as an air spring, I dont rate fox dampers or new charger at all and am running an avalanche open bath in mine. No brake dive etc as has midvalving that can tume to smooth out fork dive.
  • + 1
 @kanasasa: marz 66 was the best fork I ever had. Adding an Avalanche open bath cartridge to my pike was good but the solo air spring is still the problem...I know because I have an Avy cartridge in my boxxer team and it is amazing.
  • + 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: Totally agree: If RS had coils they would need many different spring weights for every travel length in every wheel size...Inventory nightmare scenario.
  • + 1
 @bat-fastard: It's possible to incorporate anti-bottoming mechanisms into the damper, too. Avalanche has one called, appropriately enough, the anti-bottoming system. All it does is mechanically restrict oil flow once travel tops out. This is like having a sudden end-stroke ramp up in your damping.

On an unrelated note pertinent to @Fix-the-Spade 's prior comment, just about every air spring for the last 10 years has incorporated some kind of pressurized negative chamber to combat seal static friction (to make them "smoother off the top"). The more successful of those designs tend to make the negative chamber user tuneable instead of using a transfer port (even Rockshox was doing this in like 05-08 with their "dual air" designs). My experience with DVO forks tells me that you can get a very smooth air spring with enough preload on the air spring.

Just about everything else he said comparing air to coil I agree with.
  • + 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: 20 mm through axles have always been 110 mm spacing.
  • + 3
 @RimCyclery: Yes, I know that, had you read my comments properly you would know that I know that and you wouldn't have felt the need to make sure that I know that you know that I know that.
  • + 1
 @evomtb: Yep, put some new seals and oil in it at the beginning of the year and it's totally prime. Maybe I got a good one. My only gripe is that it only has external rebound adjustment and if I'm not careful it dives a bit under hard braking.
  • + 25
 why must there always be something else that I can buy to my bike... why!?
  • + 3
 Here's airless truck to help you save some money: every time you want to look at pinkbike, go for a ride instead.
  • + 22
 coil is better than air...
  • + 41
 I can't live without air
  • + 2
 Gwin runs air. I pretty sure my air shocks are providing me adequate performance.
  • + 6
 @WAKIdesigns: I can't live without coil.
  • + 12
 @WAKIdesigns: But you're a pole not a fork. Poles always need to have one end in the air or they become a pipe.
  • + 2
 @Adamrideshisbike: Um..Actually Gwin does not run air this year. But not too many people can talk about that.
  • + 8
 Gwin's setup is atypical since he runs 1% sag.
  • - 23
flag NickDHash (Jul 18, 2017 at 21:48) (Below Threshold)
 @Adamrideshisbike: gwin is a chotch and his winning streak is over.
  • + 1
 @NickDHash: it's chach you chach
  • + 17
 You had me at "Pike kits coming soon".
  • + 14
 this pleases me greatly. will a version be available for lyric as well?
  • + 8
 Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it - according to Push, "RockShox Lyrik/Yari will NOT be offered due to the small inside diameter of the stanchion tube."
  • + 18
 @mikekazimer: this is upsetting news
  • + 6
 Go Avy for the Lyric-- I did and it's damn amazing!!!!!! Plus I'm running the 11/6 on the rear-- such a good combo.
  • + 10
 @diggerandrider: already got the 11/6 i have been waiting on a coil answer for the front. at this point pinkbike probably considers me a troll for how much i beg for coils.
  • + 1
 @diggerandrider: Avy or Push coil for the pike?
  • + 8
 For the $389, sell the Lyrik and buy an Ohlins 36 coil. A lot more tuning options as well.
  • + 2
 @salespunk: not offered in 275 yet
  • - 4
flag groghunter (Jul 18, 2017 at 10:31) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: So the stanchion on a Lyrik is narrower than a Pike? TIL.
  • + 13
 @groghunter: The Lyrik's stanchions are the same outer diameter as the Pike, but they're thicker walled, which is why this kit won't fit inside.
  • + 1
 @groghunter: i think that is the main difference between a pike and lyric. the outside diameter is the same. they made the inner diameter smaller to increase stiffness (more aluminum present)
  • + 1
 @groghunter: no the stanchions are thicker
  • + 4
 @mikekazimer:
Wait what? The Pike , Lyrik and Yari all use the same airshaft. Is there a taper or something lower in the stanchions that would make the diameter smaller?
  • + 3
 @salespunk: What about spare parts and service in the US? But, yeah for $400 I'd look into a new fork.

"For the $389, sell the Lyrik and buy an Ohlins 36 coil. A lot more tuning options as well."
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: That's what I meant, looking back at how I wrote it, I did a terrible job of conveying what I meant, mea culpa.
  • + 4
 @adrennan: I'll second this as an amazing combo. Grab a Yari, pull the motion control damper and drop in the Avy. You're at about $860 if you play your cards right.
  • + 2
 Obviously haven't tried the PUSH- I'd imagine it would feel dang good- but the Avy open bath- oh my gosh what a massive night and day difference! I went all out and got his full upgrade package- mind blown! No hesitations in recommending others. @funkendrenchman:
  • + 1
 @OriginalDonk: TFTuned is supposed to be doing a Lyrik/Yari coil conversion. Smile Yari + Avy Damper +TFTuned Coil FTW.
  • + 1
 @diggerandrider: What did you like so much about it and what 'valve tune' did you request?
  • + 1
 @endlessblockades: Ohlins has a full contingent of people in the US including spares and there is nothing your local suspension tuner cannot work with.
  • + 12
 Marzocchi 350 NCR Titanium
  • + 6
 For those wishing to convert their PIKE/LYRIC or YARI to coil for a reasonable cost (135 euro) then please visit Richard Cros at crconception.com
He manufactures in-house coil conversions, custom hydraulic cartridges and custom parts for Fox, RS...
www.crconception.com/web_images/2017_spring_kit.bmp
I have a crconception hydraulic cartridge in my 160mm Pike, no more air tokens required, it's butter smooth with great mid-stroke support.
  • + 6
 This fork does not need a coil. This fork need a bigger range in the damper adjustment. In the Alps when the compression h and l are fully open it still feels harsh sometimes.
  • + 2
 An Andreani piston kit solves this. A night and day difference
  • + 2
 #HSCaintdead and yes, a coil IS better in the Alps as air forks overheat and start spiking.
  • + 3
 FAST Suspension cartridge for the Pike. A proper range of high and low range compression as well as a wider range of usable rebound. Awesome improvement.
  • + 2
 If by "this fork" you mean the Fox 36, consider the MRP Ramp control kit, which also converts the air spring to a dual air setup. Running the negative spring a little higher than the positive has a HUGE effect on small bump performance and has nothing to do with damping. The spring matters.
  • + 1
 @DrPete: agreed man I have a dual air rev and it's way better to fine tune then that solo air crap that keeps both chambers at the same psi
  • + 1
 The problem is the Float air piston (if "this fork" is a 36), there are some tolerance issues causing excess friction in many new 36s (which is no doubt exacerbated by temperature extremes). There are some guys making replacement air pistons to solve the issue. The problem is nothing to do with the damper and thus the Andreani damper piston won't fix it.

The Fox RC2 damper itself is very good.
  • + 1
 @uuuu: Side loading or too tight of tolerances? There is a fix for that
  • + 1
 @cinnamon140: that's my option for the fox36 did it on the previous fox34, does improve HSC flow rate
  • + 8
 Wouldn't that just be called the Vanilla 36? Or did Fox discontinue the Vanilla?
  • + 4
 discontinued unfortunately
  • + 5
 The Van 36 was an amazing fork. Maybe they bring it back now.
  • + 2
 @hevi: in new super boost 20x110 hahaha
  • + 1
 @adrennan: yeah right? Hahaha!
  • + 8
 This reminds me of the early 90s when everyone was replacing elastomers with coil spring kits
  • + 1
 Difference being that a lot of the dampers back then were garbage compared to what we have now.
  • + 1
 @DrPete: my first squishy fork (Manitou 3) didn't even have a damper, it was done by the elastomer. Those things were poo compared to what we have now but they were quicker than a rigid fork.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: I rocked a Judy XC around the same time. Haha.
  • + 1
 @DrPete: Judy DH was my second fork. They were a whole lot better than the M3 as at least they had damping.
  • + 6
 In Push I trust. My Push'd Fox 36 is the single best mountain bike product I've owned or ridden. If they developed it, it will work well and do as intended.
  • + 4
 love my float 36, the air volume spacers and refined air spring design is the whole reason why this fork doesn't not to be a coil. At the expense of 1/2 lbs + I'm unsure why you would go this directon
  • - 10
flag millsr4 (Jul 18, 2017 at 12:17) (Below Threshold)
 If your an aggressive rider and set up these air forks to not blow through travel you would understand... especially on any chassis under 160mm. Arm pump is a mother when your fork isn't supple enough off the top!
  • + 1
 @millsr4: If I wasn't aggressive I wouldn't have invested into such a high end fork, but thanks for assuming! This fork is more than supple, I'm about 145 lbs and need all the help I can get to get this fork as active as possible. That being said, the new float 36 air spring 2016 on wards is all you would ever need. It is very active and has excellent small bump compliance, plus its light!
  • + 2
 @millsr4: not to mention, from the looks of your profile you don't seem to own any of these forks which the kit is intended. I would than assume you have never had sufficient experience with the new fox 36 to make any claims on its performance.
  • + 0
 @BoneDog: I've been in the market and testing/renting bikes for a purchase next season. In fact I was on a new pike just 2 days ago... I was also on air suspension for the past several years, after starting out on coil, and just last season went back to coil front and rear. I never want to go back to air if I can help it! At only 145lbs it makes sense that this is not an issue for you... I weigh a full 30lbs more than you with gear and I would venture to say most people reading this weigh a fair bit more than you do. Also I would assume that the demands of your local trails aren't quite as steep and rough as what we have in the PNW.
  • - 1
 @BoneDog: I will admit though, I've ridden the new pike and 34 but not the 36.
  • + 2
 Hard to beat the new 36 especially if you're going to eat the $400 cost on this...
  • + 4
 @Loamhuck: overpriced
  • + 1
 @jaame: The 36 or ACS-3?
  • + 1
 I just purchased the CC Helm because I was NEVER able to get my 36 to feel any good. It never felt bad, but it's small bump and mid stroke just felt non responsive. I'd rather have a new fork than taking a gamble paying to make the 36 feel good.
  • + 1
 @Waldon83: Bleed the lowers? Sounds like it was harsh out of the box...if you had a 15-16 your HSC with 2 volume reducers should have been near wide open. Also, remember to change the oil and dust rings early and often.
  • + 2
 @Loamhuck: I bought my 36 RC2 one year old for about $500 American. There is no way I would be spending $400 for this. I think they should do a version without the air bumper for $150. I would be keen to try that.
  • + 2
 @Loamhuck: Yeah, a lot of people can't believe me when I tell them.
I went from a Boxxer WC, to a Pike, to a 36 (all on different bikes) but the 36 just never felt as good as the pike.
Even after a rebuild was done, they felt marginally better, but I still couldn't get the fork to feel how I could with my Pike through it's stroke and breakaway force.

And then the Helm was on sale, and it matches my CCDB Coil CS, so I wen't with that over the Pike/Lyric
  • + 0
 @BoneDog: so not true. This is perfect for lightweights like 145. im 150 and will be getting this asap. My 2017 fox 36 is amazing but no matter what it sags in its travel for light riders. my 160 sat at 153 at 60 psi and my 170 is 160 all day. this will let the fork sit proper in its travel and everyone who knows the true dynamics of a spring knows that coil will always perform better than a coil. this is awesome for lighter riders and its push. everything they do is pure gold.
  • + 1
 @KUNTHER: People always seem to undermine the capabilities of an air spring configuration. Your statement makes sense if this was the early 90's but keep in mind air springs are no longer just a piston inside of a cylinder. Yes, the standard coil spring will forever be linear, but keep in mind, that is also its limitation. Air spring technology has come such a long way that by virtue of managing changes in volume and pressure blow off we can essential start to tailor the air spring curve to what ever we would like. For example, consider fox's use of a transfer shaft in the 2015 36 which balanced air between negative and positive springs, this allowed the air spring curve to become more travel dependent, something coil cannot achieve. On another note, NASA relies on air springs for vibration isolation for there metrology equipment due to the ability to tailor in exactly how it dampens vibration. All this to say, things have come a long way to the point that I personally think Coil has reached its level of tunability and air sprung suspension is the proven way of the future.
  • + 4
 @BoneDog: Agreed but the push has an air bottom out that does in fact makes this as progressive as you will ever want it. I understand some of NASAs isolation systems for some of their monitoring devices as I worked for a manufacturing facility that worked with them closely to manufacture it(they have so many variations). Vibrations and hits that suspension takes are almost polar opposites. The only thing they share is that they absorb energy. There is so much that can be done with spring as far as shape and how the ends are cut along with wire diameter to create an endless variation between linear and progressive but the mtb industry is so far behind. I will agree to disagree but there is a reason that trophy trucks, race cars, moto, and any other platforms that requires suspension( word that means to keep level in suspense aka suspended) are all using coil. air is lighter and a great marketing tool for those who always drink the koolaid.
  • + 1
 @BoneDog: I'm about 140 lbs and ride an early 2016 RC2. This thing has been destroying me on smaller bump/initial stroke compliance when set up to not blow through travel. I'm thinking I need a custom compression damper shim stack as my fork feels harsh even with H and L compression damping opened up. I feel like I've tried everything else. Did you need any modifications to get it feeling good? Is your's early or late 2016, seems that compression tune changed around then.
  • + 2
 @scuba6388: I got mine as early as it was available from distributor. If your blowing through the travel and the only way to avoid it is to increase the PSI which makes it far to stiff, this means your fork lacks ramp up and is functioning rather linearly.

Try adding 2 of the orange volume spacers and make sure you follow through with the transfer shaft adjustment. That will add substantially more ramp up with the smaller volume.

If its not enough, add more spacers...
  • + 1
 @BoneDog: Bottom out is actually pretty good with two blue spacers, but the midstroke support just isn't there. I can solve the midstroke issues by increasing compression damping or air spring pressure, but either adjustment kills the small bump compliance. The only thing I can't try is increasing air spring pressure and opening up compression damping (since it's already fully open).
  • + 2
 @scuba6388: I run 3 orange travel spacers on my DH bike with compression 1/3 closed and rebound almost full open (maybe 2 index)
  • + 1
 @BoneDog: Thanks, I'll try more spacers to see if it firms up the midstroke.
  • + 6
 Just use the plunger shaft from a broken VAN36 and add a custom ti-spring from Alibaba and you have yer custom coil fork
  • + 1
 hold on....youre telling me alibaba sells titanium springs for bikes??
  • + 19
 @me2menow: Alibaba recommends open bath sesame oil.

I'll see myself out...
  • + 4
 @iamamodel: that is so terrible i'll upvote it
  • + 7
 For when enduro becomes more downhill than WC downhill
  • + 17
 i always see this comment. people forget a WC bike has to work well for what? 5 minutes? an EWS bike may have 45 minutes or more of descending in a day.
  • - 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Jul 18, 2017 at 10:29) (Below Threshold)
 @adrennan: Time for us to check out with Öhlins
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: Öhlins had the opportunity to change the mtb suspension game, yet teamed up with Specialized and continued to bring the same shit as everyone else. 51mm offsets on 29ers isn't okay.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: no 275 coil yet from ohlins.
  • + 1
 @gonecoastal: Öhlins released a 650B air version of the RXF Fork a couple of weeks ago and a coil sprung 650B RXF is expected to be available mid 2018 (Öhlins direct sources)
  • + 1
 @nunomelo77: huh that is not the answer I got last i spoke to them
  • + 6
 @gonecoastal: You mean Ö-Fusion?
  • + 1
 @adrennan: yep, got the same vague answer from the swede brand's MTB Dep. - they state nothing is on the way - but got a different approach from the iberian distributor Andreani MHS which clearly stated that in a year or so a coil version will be released.
  • + 1
 @jollyXroger: Ultimate boner killer when I found that out.
@nunomelo77 I'm aware of their product line. I'm also aware of their offsets. Like I said, they had an opportunity to do something and they chose not to.
  • + 1
 @gonecoastal: agree. Was expecting them to release a coil fork earlier this year when the news came up.
I really hope that Push raises the bar and develop their own coil fork. Drool
  • + 1
 @gonecoastal: You sir are right. Fox will sort it out...
  • + 1
 @nunomelo77:
Try getting a hold of one though, I ordered an RXF 36 coil, wont get it till January 2018.
  • + 4
 Good lord, that's a hefty price tag. I'm sure it will be awesome...time to talk to the doctor about the drawbacks of having only 1 kidney
  • + 2
 The major lost of all suspension world was how Marzo fall.Not all forks and models were great but the ones who were good could be with a litle more tunings near to perfect .In 2014/15 they try to launch some new models ,with tunable shim cartridges and so but again they fall.Dont forget that Marzocchi was coil forks essentially and there they were good,with air forks they were very bad ,Atas's,TST´s etc
I/m sick of seeing Fox and RS only and lonely.,lot of money on maintenance A normal rider dont need what a racer have to have ,one race one revision.
But they were also arrogant in having comunication with their custumers and for many reason they fall.
20cc of lubrication on a leg fork and no wear and no stiction and supple rides ?And also believe in santaclaus?
  • + 1
 Good point. I alwways thought the oil volume seemed low. That's why I used but tons of their grease. But as a person who readily fixes my own bikes, I like my pike, when I'm not having to service it which feels like a lot.
  • + 4
 AWK by Chickadeehill anyone? Google that, order one, close enough to coil at air spring weight (at least for Pike and Boxxer). Come on, its available for quite some time now!
  • + 2
 I've had one for a few months now. It took me several rides to figure out the pressures in each chamber but now I am sold. Awesome product, not expensive and very easy to install!
  • + 5
 Loving my Marz 55 rc2 ti coil fork all that much more now.
400$ for a coil and some lil machined bits. Lol.
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer if Push can make the Pike 170 MM with this kit and retro Lyrik lowers (for stiffness) I would buy this in a heart beat for my nomad with the Push 11-6 in the rear and sell my DH bike completely.

Great article. Looking forward to more reviews down the road!
  • + 3
 Maybe it's time for Push to step up and hit the market with a coil sprung fork. It would be something like #jawmeetfloor and an emptied bank account
!
  • + 1
 Fanboy!!!
  • + 2
 "The kit replaces the air spring in a Fox 36 or a RockShox Pike, and features a pneumatic bump stop that can be set between 5-50 psi to adjust the amount of end-stroke ramp up."

Kinda like the Manitou MARS spring?
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer, they only have springs up to 230 pound riders?? what are the other two spring rates that are coming out? Even when I'm healthy I'm still 255, and right now I'm at 275 riding weight...

Its a whole different issue, but damn its next to impossible to get an entire bike (especially wheels) that are rated for some of us bigger cats...
  • + 7
 You're a cat ?

I'm not even mad, I'm impressed
  • + 3
 Sweet! Since it sounds like the spring perches are travel specific, how much for additional perches (I sometimes change travel +/- 10mm).
  • + 2
 I wonder why dual rated springs are not used more in MTB forks. That way you can have a progressive spring. A pneumatic bump stop just seems like more parts that can wear out, and seal friction.
  • + 1
 Dual rate Boxxer springs are all over world cup downhill, and work really, really well..
  • + 1
 @RaceOnlySprings: any chance of getting a review of your boxxer dual rate springs done by pinkbike
  • + 2
 Ive had my Pike converted by TF Tuned and I must say I'm absolutely gobsmacked how much of an improvement it is on the trail. I think it's even bigger news for a lighter rider such as myself @ 67ish KG.
  • + 2
 I was looking at this - clearly you are a fan! Sorry to ask questions but there's very little rider information or reviews out there at the moment:
How did you find the change to a linear spring rate? Do you bottom out much (this has an air bottom out spring but the Tftuned one doesn't iirc?)?
Have you noticed the increase in weight?

Mainly I'd just like to improve the small bump sensitivity though - have you noticed a big difference?
  • + 1
 @slimboyjim: I'm not one to bottom out much any way as my mangled elbow cannot take very big hits. It is certainly a mental adjustment.
The fork feels initially softer and MUCH more active. After putting that to back of mind and just riding the standouts are; feels softer but somehow firmer in the midrange too so, the fork absorbs more and does support better in the midrange. What I found was if you go out to mash the fork, you'll gobble travel but if you just ride as you would normally you are fine. My initial thought after 1st ride was that air forks/shocks are good only for manufacturer who wants to run one set production line good for everybody. You may look at your Air shock on the back and think POS after this...
Feedback is better too (not harshness just more...connected) great for pushing max lean. Yes if you lift the front wile walking the bike you notice very slight weight gain but not while riding.
I would say bottom out force is maybe less although I've not had an issue yet. Actually I find myself riding like a fool, pushing the front like crazy now, confidence is very high.
TF do send 2 spring options depending on weight and riding requirement. They also exchange a spring for a postage charge.
  • + 2
 @EpicStormer: Thanks for the comprehensive update! I've booked mine in for a conversion at the start of next month! It will be my first coil so I'm pretty excited!

I remember feeling the lack of sticktion on an old Marzocchi a few years back and it blew me away how smooth it was. My pike jars on small bump stuff so this should go a long way towards improving comfort and traction, and your review certainly suggests it is a very noticeable improvement. Reading around on here the whole bottoming out thing that the Push system caters for with its air damper seems a little overkill - the general consensus is that if you bottom out you're under sprung and that is an easy fix!

In relation to the rear I'm stuck with air due to the suspension curve being wrong for coil, but I can live with that - my legs can take it but over the course of long rough downhills my hands are getting beaten up, and grip is always more preferable on the front!

Thanks again!
  • + 3
 Might be tough to spring for this when its going to push fork weight up by 210-285 grams and cost almost $400. Clever mod idea though for the rider with all the toys
  • + 2
 I see what you did there
  • + 4
 Hmmmmm sounds about the same weight, price and performance of a DVO Diamond....
  • + 3
 website says max weight of 230lbs. being 228lbs with gear, guess i need to ride more.
  • + 3
 Does say they have 2 firmer spring rates in the works.
  • + 2
 Coil conversion for the newer Pike/Yari/Lyrik with Parts of older RS 35mm forks:

www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/coil-ghetto-umbau-fuer-pike-29-mit-rock-shox-teilen.833400
  • + 1
 Hey does anyone know if companies like this make replacement parts for rockshox stuff that rockshox no longer support or have spare parts for? 2015 era stuff, not from the 90's....
  • + 1
 I bet its great...but i wish it was a full fork from Push, ideally as sexy as the ElevenSix...spending more than a grand on some forks and then another chunk for this, adding more weight as well, is a bit hard to digest.
  • + 1
 KTM has really perfected the air spring fork, or at least thats what all the magazines say, but I still like the feel of a steel spring fork. Seems like a great product, but the price would likely keep me from trying one..
  • + 3
 What year chassis will this fit? Could I buy a used 2014 36 for $500 and install this?
  • + 1
 Kits will fit 2015 and newer 36
  • + 1
 @MattFro: perfect you could get a better than new fork for maybe $800 total.
  • + 2
 The MRP kit for the Fox 36 has been pretty badass, but yeah, I'm getting this.
  • + 1
 Got mine installed and damn, is it nice. If you're running a coil shock on the rear you owe it to yourself to get this. Push killed it with this one.
  • + 3
 Still miss my Bomber 66RC..that fork was so smooth
  • + 3
 Coil n' Oil all the live-long day
  • + 3
 SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!
  • + 1
 Had a 2008 Lyrik coil U-turn adjustable 120-160 some time ago... was blown away that RS discontinued it. I have never been in love with air forks.
  • + 3
 No 36 180mm option? @mikekazimer
  • + 1
 was thinking the same thing, the 170mm 36 can be lengthened to 180 so it would only make sense. even if they just included a 10mm spacer in the kit.
  • + 4
 Finally!!!!!!
  • + 4
 Finally Amen
  • + 1
 and here 2 weeks ago I changed my fox 34 for a marzocchi bomber 66 and so far the coil is awesome, I wonder if they will make kits for the 34.
  • + 2
 just had a multiple orgasm while reading didn't even know existed ...... both
  • + 2
 The coil in my Fox 40 performance elite feels rad, but rattles in the chunk. Hope they solved that issue with this fork.
  • + 3
 Just take out the spring and put it through a cut inner tube. Problem solved!
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride: Yeah, how are people still not knowing that trick !?
  • + 1
 @Waldon83: It is so simple that people can't believe it will work haha
  • + 2
 Great now make a air spring for my monster t
  • + 1
 Can a lbs service this and a 116 or do I need to send it to the other side of the planet to service it?
  • + 1
 My long lost Rock Shox Pike 454 was such butter. Definitely will give this a solid look.
  • + 2
 Man this company... They need to give me a job.
  • + 1
 you and me both...
  • + 2
 I lost my job yesterday . . . pick me first.
  • + 1
 @Waldon83: Alright man, it's all yours! Sorry you lost your job buddy.
  • + 1
 did this with Boxxer parts and a fox spring years ago when the lyric came out.
  • + 1
 Why do people want this? What am I missing that I don't think coil springs are a step forward?
  • + 6
 small bump sensitivity and consistent performance. bike park laps kill air suspension
  • + 1
 @adrennan: So if you don't ride park there isn't a huge advantage over air?
  • + 4
 @ajdriscoll: i think there would still be a notable performance increase (hard to say since i havent gotten to ride a modern coil fork) but when i made the switch to coil in the rear, the performance increase was most notable after long descents or park days. if you ride mostly xc, you wouldnt notice much.
  • + 7
 @ajdriscoll:

There are a few inherent differences between air and coil:

- An air spring requires additional seals. Seals = more drag, which equates to more feedback at the handlebars. It's most obvious on small bumps but it's exists on all impacts. This also means you need to break down your fork and grease the seals regularly to keep it feeling as good as possible.

- An air spring acts differently at different temperatures, so over a rough descent it can get stiffer as the air heats up.

- A coil spring has a linear rate, where-ever you are in the travel the increase in force to move the next increment stays the same until the coils run out of room to compress. An air spring on the other hand requires a high level of force at the beginning of travel, then drops down a lot at the mid-stroke, then ramps up at the end. That's the nature of an air spring. You can design a linkage to offset that to give you a mostly linear progression that's close to a coil shock. However as our forks are telescoping you're stuck with the air springs natural characteristics. The biggest downside for air is that you can either tune it for small bump sensitivity and you'll have a less supportive mid-stroke, or you can tune it for a supportive mid-stroke and you'll have harsh small bump. Conversely with a coil fork you'll have a more supportive mid-stroke, but you don't have the same end-stroke ramp you get with an air fork, so you may wind up running a higher spring rate than you'd prefer; however, the Push system basically puts an air spring at the last 1/3 of travel to manage this, theoretically giving you the best of both worlds.

None of this is exclusive to DH, it's all applicable to trail riding as well.
  • + 2
 @djjohnr: you can also handle the coil thing the ohlins way with two different coils installed and create a progressive coil fork.
  • + 2
 @adrennan:

Yeah, there are several ways to tackle the problem.
  • + 3
 @adrennan: If Ohlins made the RXF 36 in a non-boost 27.5 160mm coil I'd sell my Fox and get it. But they don't, so I'm going for this.
  • + 1
 @DrPete: I wish I had a fox and could do that. The no lyric option kills me
  • + 1
 @djjohnr: How do coil forks perform in hard G-outs? I know it isn't apples to apples but I remember with my old cheap suntour coil fork, when I would compress it hard on a berm the rebound would be pretty violent and unpredictable. Obviously using a nice fork and this upgrade is light years ahead of that fork but how does it combat that from a rebound standpoint?
  • + 3
 @ajdriscoll: ask the world cup dh circuit how coils handle hard g outs... set it up right and a coil WILL feel better than air.
  • + 2
 @ajdriscoll: Sounds like your Suntour coil had a crappy damper. Proper rebound settings would take care of the problem you had, and regarding G-outs the added mid stroke support of the linear spring rate you get with a coil keeps you from sinking into the travel as far.
  • + 1
 @djjohnr: Well put!
  • + 1
 @ajdriscoll: rebound damping is handled by the damper, not the spring. The resistance the damper provides is based on the force of the spring at any given moment, i.e. the higher the spring rate (aka the deeper you are in the travel) the higher the resistance). In theory maybe a coil fork would feel more consistent through rebound since the springs force rate of change is constant, but in practice I've never really felt/noticed that.

Long story short, the shitty rebound characteristics you encountered weren't because it was a coil fork.
  • + 1
 If this will work in a Yari, you have a winner on your hands!
  • + 2
 it doesnt...
  • + 1
 Why is there no kit for a 180mm 36? Is there one in the pipeline?
  • + 1
 Once in awhile a game changer arrives!!! Thanks Push!!!
  • + 1
 Is there a 34 option in the pipeline?
  • + 1
 asking the questions that needs answering....
  • + 2
 Here's your 34 option, sell up, get a 140 / 150 Pike
  • + 2
 My Van 36rc2 Still rocks
  • + 2
 This is soooo cool!!!
  • + 2
 ...and soooo coil.
  • + 2
 ...and soooo coi..... oh, damn it.
  • + 1
 2005 Pike U-turn spring = $40
2015 Pike spring = $400

'k off!
  • + 3
 Google translate this if you like and get a Coil option for a fraction of the money:

www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/coil-ghetto-umbau-fuer-pike-29-mit-rock-shox-teilen.833400
  • + 1
 What, do you mean to say your dreams of becoming a professional athlete didn't die when you're ~15, but re-emerge when you're ~35 like mine did? It's bound to happen dude, just gotta tie your shoes tighter, then buy mad bike suspension.
  • + 1
 Anyone know if this will work with a 2011 fox talas 36 rlc fit?
  • + 0
 That air bump stop is brilliant! Right out of the trophy truck playbook!
  • + 5
 I dunno part of the appeal of a coil setup is no seals and simplicity. IS the air bump stop even necessary? I dont recall older coil forks needing this. Seems like a way to justify $400 for a spring kit (which push probably doesn't even make the coil itself, just source externally) and a few rods and mechanical parts.

Too expensive for what you get IMO
  • + 1
 @flattire: I have an older 170mm lyrik coil that I bottom out from time to time. Coils are great but they have a linear spring rate which basically means they are very bottom out-able, especially in the front where you can't take advantage of a leverage rate like you can in the back to make it feel more progressive. The air bump stop solves this. Who knows though maybe its just an expensive gimmick...
  • + 3
 @NolanFJ60: 'from time to time' sounds ok for me Smile if not, get a harder spring (i know the extra hard RS spring is a little soft for people over 90Kilos)
  • + 2
 @flattire: You nailed it!
If anyone actually understands the nonlinearities in an air spring they will also understand that if you choose the correct coil spring rate, it will be roughly just as hard to bottom out. If anyone is complaining about bottoming out a coil spring, they are likely just running undersprung and need to go up a rate. Air springs also have many other issues (like friction, and requiring greater compression damping to compensate for the mid-stroke rate reduction), so once you remove those problems you will naturally need more spring force (again) to support the rider.

PUSH has just made up a problem to justify a ridiculous price for something that Fox used to offer as a no cost option - in a package that worked absolutely beautifully. See the 2011-2013 Fox 40, or 2012-2013 Fox 36 VAN RC2 (inverted FIT). On the bright side, hopefully this will encourage Fox to bring back the real deal.
  • - 1
 wonder if you could just stick a road bike inner tube over the spring to protect the fork leg
  • + 4
 Had a customer take his fox 40 to another shop and do this. I'm assuming to get rid of the coil noise the spring makes. Brought his bike to me with the fork stuck down and didn't know why. The inner tube became a big ball of rubber around his spring causing the fork to stick down.
  • + 1
 @WolfStoneD: Thanks for that tip. I was almost ready to try it. Smile
  • + 0
 @DrPete: It actually works most of the time.....and it's the best thing to do to stop coil chatter inside the fork.
  • + 1
 @WolfStoneD: you got to cable tie the innertube to the spring, they obviously didnt do this!!!! lol
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