Review: 1,000 Miles on SRAM's New Eagle Transmission

Mar 17, 2023 at 15:46
by Mike Kazimer  


After months of hype, leaks, rumors, and speculation, SRAM's new Eagle Transmission has officially launched. It's an entirely new 12-speed electronic drivetrain, free of any wires, derailleur hangers, limit screws, or B-tension adjustments. Three groupsets are being released today – XX SL, XX, and XO.

For a comprehensive deep-dive into how Transmission came into existence, as well as a breakdown of the differences between each model, be sure to check out Ralf Hauser's article here.

This review is focused on the performance of the XO drivetrain, which I've spent the last 6 months using and abusing. During that time period, I racked up over 1,000 miles (1609 km) and 175,000 vertical feet (53,340 m) of climbing over the course of 65 rides. Those miles included lots of rain, more snow than I would have liked, and a healthy dose of magical hero dirt to round things out.

XO Eagle Transmission Details
• 12-speed, 10-52 tooth cassette
• Direct mount, wireless electronic rear derailleur
• Flattop chain only
• Requires UDH compatible frame
• 55mm chainline
• Forged aluminum cranks w/ optional bashguards
• Price: $1,599 USD (cassette, derailleur, cranks, shifter, chain, batter, charger)
sram.com




XO Eagle Transmission Details

Cranks

The new aluminum crankset is likely the most eye-catching part of the new groupset, thanks to a cutout in the center of the forged arms, and a polished finish that keeps them looking fresh even after being ridden in gritty mud. The chainring mounts with 8 small bolts (yes, 8 – swapping rings isn't the quickest procedure), and there's an optional bash guard that bolts directly to the chainring in either a single- or double mounted configuration. If you choose to run half of the bashguard, just make sure it's on the bottom of the ring when the cranks are in your preferred pedaling position (left foot forward or right foot forward), since that's when most impacts would occur.

Most of the new drivetrain isn't backward compatible, due to the T-Type chain and cassette design, but the cranks and chainring will work with non-T-Type Eagle chains. Weight: 530 grams without a chainring. Price: $300.


Cassette
The cassette maintains the 10-52 tooth gear spread found on SRAM's Eagle drivetrains, but the spacing between the largest gears has been changed in order to make the jumps less drastic; the final two tooth counts goes from 44 – 52, compared to 42 – 52.

All of the cassettes in the Transmission lineup have the same architecture – the largest three cogs are pinned on, and the nine smaller cogs are machined out of one piece of steel. The 52-tooth cog is aluminum on all the casettes in order to save weight (the XX SL gets 3 aluminum cogs for even more weight savings).

Speaking of weight, the XO cassette checks in at 382 grams, and retails for $400 USD.

Chain
The XO chain has a black finish that SRAM calls 'Dark Polar', and it has a PVD (physical vapor deposition) coating to ward off corrosion and improve its lifespan. Compared to the XX chain, the XO is a little heavier due to the use of solid rather than hollow pins, and it doesn't receive the extra-long lasting 'hard chrome' finish of its more expensive sibling. The XO chain weighs 256 grams and is priced at $100 USD.


Derailleur & Shifter
The heart of the T-Type drivetrain is the new wireless electronic derailleur. It's mounted directly to the frame, occupying the spot where a Universal Derailleur Hanger (UDH) would have been in the past. It's powered by the same batteries used on SRAM's previous AXS derailleurs, although a new shifter design has been added to the mix. The previous shifters are still compatible, bringing the total number of options up to three. The $150 shifter weighs 51 grams and is powered by a CR2032 battery.

When looking at the derailleur from the back of the bike the lower cage appears to be bent. But don't go grabbing a wrench and trying to straighten things out – it's supposed to be that way. SRAM calls it the 'Inline Cage', and the design is supposed to keep the chain pointed towards the front chainring no matter what gear the derailleur is in. The derailleur (with battery) weighs 479 grams and costs $550. At that price it's a very good thing it's designed for durability.




Installation

I've had this Transmission installed on two different bikes over the course of the test period. It started out on a Specialized Stumpjumper Evo, where it was pre-installed by a SRAM technician. After a few months with the drivetrain on the Stumpjumper EVO my tinkering tendencies got the best of me, so I decided to swap it over to a Trek Fuel EX in order to see how the installation process went on my own.

The installation steps are fairly simple, but they are different than a typical derailleur. Even if you're someone who prides themselves on never reading the instructions this is one of those times when at least a cursory glance will be very helpful. SRAM's written instructions make it very straighforward, as does the installation video.

Making sure the marks on the inboard hanger and the silver piece next are lined up is an important part of the setup process.

There's no B-tension or limit screws to worry about – instead, the key thing to keep an eye on is that the two marks on the knurled ring and on the full mount of the derailleur (pictured above) are lined up, and that you follow the correct order of operations when it comes to tightening everything down. Chain length is also crucial – SRAM has a list of bikes in their database that can be accessed via the AXS app, or there's a chart that displays the correct chain length depending on chainring size and chainstay length.

Overall, the installation it a quick process, and once the derailleur is in place wheel installation and removal are the same as they are on a 'regular' SRAM derailleur – the cage is extended forward and locked in place to allow wheel removal, and then once the wheel is back on the cage lock is released and the axle is tightened.


Performance

I'm going to date myself here, but I clearly remember when bike shops and magazines would publish charts that explained the ideal way to shift. Those were the days of front derailleurs and triple chainrings, back when there was an art to avoiding cross chaining while still finding the ideal gear. The advent of 1x drivetrains made things a whole lot easier, although in some cases you still needed to take care to avoid pedaling hard and shifting at the same time.

With Transmission, there's really no reason to delay a shift. Cranking up a steep hill and need to shift to an easier gear? Go for it – the chain will pop right up into that gear without any disconcerting noises. I purposely shifted as hamfistedly as possible on a number rides, and in all instances the Transmission worked exactly as claimed.

It's a similar experience to Shimano's Hyperglide+ drivetrains, which debuted in 2019 and also allows for shifting under load. The experience isn't totally identical, though, and in a head-to-head battle of Hyperglide+ vs. Transmission, I'd give the edge to Transmission due to the very quick, and very positive feel that accompanies each shift.

I hadn't realized how accustomed I'd become to the ability to shift whenever, wherever, until I hopped back onto a bike with a 'regular' cable-actuated SRAM X01 rear derailleur. It felt dated somehow, requiring more effort and patience to make shifts compared to the rapid, positive 'chunk' that occurs with the Transmission drivetrain. The shifting performance is also noticeably better than the previous Eagle AXS drivetrains, with a much more solid feel when shifting under load.

The adjusted gear ratios on the cassette are also welcome. Previously, there was a 10-tooth jump from the 42 to 52 tooth ring, which was quite the leap, and left many riders wanting something in between. Now the last four tooth counts are 32 - 38 - 44 - 52, which results in a less drastic change at end of the cassette compared to the 32 - 36 – 42 – 52 spread used previously.

Noise

One of the complaints that occasionally came up with SRAM's AXS Eagle drivetrains was that there was an undue amount of chainslap noise. The clutch wasn't that strong on some of the derailleurs, and the lack of any housing to resist the derailleur body's backwards motion during an impact exacerbated the situation further.

With Transmission that issue has been fixed – the clutch is strong (and hasn't lost any of its holding power over the last six months), and the derailleur body's fixed position helps keep chainslap to a minimum. It's on bigger impacts, ones where the cage is pulled forward and then returns to its starting position that chainslap is most noticeable, but the overall level of noise and chain control is noticeably better than on the previous AXS offerings.



Behind the scenes of our derailleur dancing choreography session. The derailleur was fine after this, no adjustments were necessary.

Durability

I try not to smash the back end of my bike into too many rocks and roots, but those impacts do happen, especially on tighter trails where veering off line results in quite literally getting stuck between a rock and a hard place.

In one instance, my front wheel washed out on slippery root that was hidden behind a fern. I hit the ground hard with my right shoulder, and the driveside of the bike took the brunt of the impact. Despite being smashed directly into the ground and covered in dirt the derailleur didn't need any adjustments, and once I'd re-composed myself I was able to keep on riding without doing any trailside repairs.

That was the most dramatic incident, but there were plenty of other moments where it was scraped against rocks, banged against stumps, or subjected to other impacts that could have damaged it... but they didn't.

I've seen comments raising concerns about the possibility of the derailleur breaking a frame due to the lack of a sacrificial hanger, usually followed closely by the conspiracy theory that SRAM got rid of the hanger to sell more expensive derailleurs. In both cases, I'd say those worries are unfounded. The way the derailleur is mounted means the frame is well protected from an impact – it's braced on both sides, and connected to the axle system, which greatly reduces the amount of leverage the derailleur can put on the frame. The force required for the derailleur to affect the frame would be extraordinary, the type of hit that would likely rip a traditional derailleur clean off and shove it into the spokes.

In addition, the derailleur is serviceable – the parallelogram link, skid plate, and cage can all be replaced separately, allowing riders to refresh their derailleur without needing to buy a whole new one.

As for battery life, I'd typically check to see if the light on the derailleur was green or red once a week and charge accordingly. The battery life is said to be a little less than the 20-hour run time of the previous AXS drivetrain, but in practice I didn't notice a dramatic difference.


Weight & Price

As with most new technologies, the initial price of entry tends to be on the higher side before it eventually trickles down to more affordable pricepoints. The XX SL, XX, and XO groups are the three top tiers in SRAM's lineup, but as we've seen in the past a GX version will likely hit the market sooner than later.

At $1,599, the price of a complete XO group certainly isn't cheap – that's around $200 more than Shimano's XTR 12-speed group, and more than double the price of an XT groupset. I realized that comparing the price of an electronic drivetrain to a cable-actuated one is bordering on apples-to-oranges territory, but Shimano doesn't currently have a 12-speed electronic drivetrain for mountain bikes without motors.

When it comes to weight, the XO groupset is within a few grams of a Shimano XT groupset. It ends up being around 40 grams lighter if you subtract the weight of a derailleur hanger and the cable and housing that XT requires. The XO cassette is 88 grams lighter than an XT cassette; the main weight difference ends up being at the derailleur due to the XO's battery and tiny motor.




Pros

+ Incredibly quick shifting, even under load
+ Very strong & durable
+ Easy setup (once you learn the procedure)


Cons

- High price of entry
- Won't work with all bikes - UDH compatibility required.



Pinkbike's Take

bigquotesFor riders who have been on the fence about making the switch to a wireless electronic drivetrain, SRAM's Eagle Transmission makes the most compelling argument yet. Personally, SRAM's initial AXS offerings were interesting, but the cable operated options worked well enough that I wasn't immediately rushing out to make the switch.

It's a different story with Transmission. At the moment, if I could choose any drivetrain on the market, cable actuated or electronic, I'd go with Eagle Transmission – it's that good. The extremely quick, consistent shifting and a derailleur that can take a serious amount of abuse without requiring any adjustments is tough to beat, and at the moment SRAM has taken a clear lead in the battle of the drivetrains. Transmission is truly game-changing, and that's not a phrase I use lightly. 
Mike Kazimer



696 Comments

  • 304 1
 "....the derailleur is serviceable – the parallelogram link, skid plate, and cage can all be replaced separately, allowing riders to refresh their derailleur without needing to buy a whole new one"

That's a welcome step
  • 70 1
 That´s a pretty huge improvement compared to the current "throw away whenever anything is broken as we don´t sell ANY spares" SRAM AXS
  • 92 2
 IF parts are actually available.
  • 72 2
 This claim also applied to the original launch of XX1 11 sp cassette, X.O 9 speed derailleur. In reality spares were never really made available for rebuild. In those cases, it seemed more an effort to half-heartedly pander to customers concerns about replacement costs. We'll see if history repeats itself here.
  • 55 27
 Are we going to talk about how they still haven't done anything to improve reliability? The improvement here is having parts to replace the parts that shouldn't have broken in the first place.

I have an original, at least 6-7 thousand mile 11-speed NX that hasn't ever needed anything but a new chain. Meanwhile, my 12-speed GX Eagle has essentially been entirely replaced bit by bit in the course of half the mileage.

I don't even want a stupid 12-speed, my legs only care about the range. Reliable, overbuilt, 10-speed with essentially the same range for way less money please, and thank you Shimano Linkglide. Shoutout to Microshift for opening up the industry to the market for reliable drivetrains.
  • 64 50
 These are all just complicated solutions to a very simple problem. Gearbox
  • 10 12
 @mininhi: Amen but people tear me apart whenever I mention them
  • 10 3
 @mininhi: that supre-drive is also a great solution. Hoping to see more bikes with it soon.
  • 11 5
 @mininhi: that's what progress is, the complication of simplicity ;-)
  • 4 1
 Now, perfect the serviceable rear cassette.
  • 8 2
 @ryanandrewrogers: Similar experience here....my last XO Eagle was inferior to my previous experiences with 11sp X0 and older 10 sp X9.
  • 6 0
 Great video Henry.
  • 1 0
 @UtahBrent: I have replaced just the big ring of my XO1 11 sp cassette though. The steel rings seem to last forever, so being able to replace that alloy big ring was a nice savings. I went Wolf Tooth 44T instead of stock SRAM though. Just glad the option was available with how expensive those cassettes were.
  • 33 2
 Ha ha ha.
Parallelogram link $99.99
Skid plate $69.99
Cage $129.99
  • 29 1
 @jaame: Lol £70 for SLX 12spd derailleur!
  • 13 1
 I can see a massive market for a guy with a cnc machine and an adaptor
  • 20 2
 In Australia it is legally required for the manufacturer to make spares available for the reasonable lifetime of the product. In a derailleurs case it would be however long they keep making them plus a couple of years. If you need spares and they're never available, that's a court issued free derailleur for you and maybe a jolt to SRAM to stop lying about replacement parts.
  • 8 1
 @mininhi: gearboxes are simple now?
  • 2 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: you can't make Micro's 10s $60 425g 11-48t cassette work with your existing stuff? DT makes a steel HG freehub body for about the same price
  • 1 3
 @CamNeelyCantWheelie:

Yeah it took me 3-4 months to get hold of 2023 Pike Decals
  • 11 15
flag rivercitycycles (Mar 21, 2023 at 18:05) (Below Threshold)
 Seems like SRAM just made a big win with this UDH! Where was Shimano, asleep at the shifter. This locks up the market for SRAM, but if Shimano comes out with a cost-effective gear box, then all bets are off.
  • 25 2
 @rivercitycycles: how does a drivetrain that costs more than many bikes lock up the market for sram?
  • 6 14
flag rivercitycycles (Mar 21, 2023 at 19:00) (Below Threshold)
 @ratedgg13: It's strategic thinking! It's not going to cost $1500 forever! The market will adjust the price. Just look at Santa Cruz, they have lowered their prices.
  • 8 0
 @ratedgg13: Did you take a look at the new Santa Cruz bikes all equipped with these news drivetrains ? New MSRPs are like 15-20% off versus prior top of the line models that had old gen X01/XX1 AXS drivetrains.

SC also ditched Fox forks in favor of Rockshox, clearly SRAM knows what they're doing regarding OEM pricing and of course that kind of technlology is not going to be cheap for a little while.
  • 4 1
 @CamNeelyCantWheelie: I’ve been hearing this line for the last 2.5 years. What parts (other than decals, apparently—talk about a 1st world problem) are still hard to find or are back ordered for months?
  • 2 2
 @mark20040: I love me some SLX derailleur...but I'm also on my 4th one in 2 years?!! Shift decent but not very robusty
  • 2 1
 @gnarlysipes: Most of the 2023 suspension parts haven’t been. Service kits, air springs. Yeah and the decals, what reason is there that there’s no stock of simple stickers for 3 months.

Also I’ve been waiting to buy Maxima Dynamic Heavy. Not been in stock since September when I started looking for it.
  • 2 0
 @S3rv3d: is that fork oil? If so, just get some from your local motorcycle shop or the internet. Fork oil is fork oil.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: Yeah, can’t find the spec for Dynamic Heavy though.

The Maxima site references Dynamic Light as a replacement for 0w-30 on the Dynamic Heavy product page.

Light is for the lowers and Heavy for the air chamber
  • 2 0
 @S3rv3d: Is this for a Rockshox fork?
I always use Castrol 15w in the air chamber (about 3cc) and lowers.
I don’t think it’s that big of a deal what exact weight is used myself, but I appreciate you may want to get it exactly to spec.
  • 1 1
 @Hieronymus: Yeah, just slap one on any bike you have, and you too can have a heavier bike with more drag. Apparently they're great if you only like to ride in the mud. Sort of useless if you ride dry trails.
  • 2 1
 @TucsonDon: The gearbox doesn't break though, 3- to 5-year warranties stipulating the replacement of any part or the whole unit. Try getting SRAM or Shimano to replace a smashed derailleur, a cassette that has lost teeth, or even a bent b-screw for free after a month of ownership. Then, try finding replacement parts that aren't available, requiring you to spend hundreds, or buy bootleg alibaba bits.

Gearboxes could theoretically be the end-all drivetrain if they land on a universal bottom bracket mount for them. They would easily outlast nearly any other component of your bike, instead of 4 derailleurs a decade we could be buying a single gearbox and moving it between bikes, like trucks on a skateboard.

I'll sacrifice watts and weight for durability any day, because the more time I spend riding and not fixing my bike/ spending money on it the happier I'll be. In my opinion, that makes them useful in the dry.
  • 1 0
 @CamNeelyCantWheelie: I hope it will last longer.
  • 2 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: i'd argue one of the best advantages of a gearbox is not being limited to crankshaft concentric designs. Gearbox could be designed in conjunction with suspension, yet most current gearboxes simply replicate the position of a regular chainring
  • 2 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: the reason why gearboxes have never taken off is actually simple - the traditional system is GOOD ENOUGH for most people and gearboxes with their issues (weight, price, drag, no shifting under load) are not really an upgrade for something that already works good enough
  • 2 1
 @f00bar: And we wonder why mountain bike gear is neither affordable nor reliable. It's because people settle for overcomplicated and fragile components every day. There's a positive side to each of the "issues" you mention:
Weight: Yes it weighs more but has a fraction of the unsprung mass so your suspension will perform better.
Price: Yes it costs more but you won't break it, nor will it fall apart on its own, whereas traditional systems are practically expendable.
Drag: Yes, but not as much drag as a traditional system on a muddy ride.
Load-Shifting: You can't, but instead you can shift infinitely and very quickly if you stop pedaling a split second. Plus, load-shifting literally killed one of my Eagle drivetrains, so arguably traditional systems (particularly 12-speeds) are actually quite bad at load-shifting.
  • 1 2
 @ryanandrewrogers:

there's nothing overcomplicated about traditional drivetrains, and everything about gearboxes... just deal with it - gearboxes are not the solution for human powered bikes and never will be
  • 3 0
 @f00bar: people like buying new stuff as well. That's a big part of it. If fashion dictated that people wanted things to last forever, or if there was some kudos to be had from living stuff long time instead of the reverse, I think gearboxes would have received more attention from companies and be developed a lot more.
Fashion over weight plays a part too - tons of MTB parts have performance or lifespan compromised because they're chasing weight savings. Having just 20cc of oil in a fork leg and creaky crowns are just two examples that spring to mind.
It's obvious that having your gears on the outside of a bike that's designed to be used in dirt and mud is probably not the best solution.
But it is what it is. I doubt gearboxes will take off as long as Sram and Shimano are involved. Will they turn out to be the Nokias of the cycling world? No probably not. It would take an outside player with serious clout to change the landscape. Maybe that will come from ebikes.
  • 2 5
 @jaame: nobody rides in conditions when mud would clog the cassette and pulleys - that's just bullshit that gearbox fanbois come up with every time they whine about how nobody understands their "superior" drivetrain... by the time mud becomes an issue, the ride is miserable anyway - a gearbox would not make it any better
  • 4 1
 @f00bar: You've clearly never lived/ridden in UK conditions. When I lived there I had a single-speed simply on account of not having my drive-train clog up. I remember plenty of rides where I passed others who were frantically using sticks to clear gunk out of their system.
  • 2 5
 @ratedgg13: yeah, I haven't. Neither have most people, and it's pointless for the entire world to adopt a system that people don't really need.
  • 4 2
 @f00bar: you come across as a bit of a bell end.
I'm not talking about mud clogging it, I'm talking about mud wearing everything out, which would not happen with a gearbox. That's a fact.
Ebikes are even worse. They chew through the little sprockets of cassettes in no time.
  • 2 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: bring back ISIS spindle to crank arm interface!
  • 1 0
 @titaniumsprucemoose: I dream about this stuff. Being able to run BMX cranks Drool and they wouldn't cost me half a grand just for some nice ti or chromoly.

Oh well, too practical and too reliable for mountain bikers I guess.
  • 1 0
 @torro86: 11speed SLX was great, lasted as long as the bike did (5 years), my current bikes I built both with 12speed SLX mechs both have bent within 18month, the cages are very weak and the move from shadow + to the old fashioned tube bolt mount setup seems to make them far easier to hit on things. Not a fan at all.
  • 2 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: nothing more true
  • 1 0
 @ratedgg13: Who are the ones that will buy such abominations ?150€ chain 700€ derailleur ? etc where are those buyers and who are they ? have them a petrol or diamond mine ?
  • 1 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: additionally a gearbox moves the center of gravity lower and between the pedals. It also gets rid of a lot of unsprung weight. I've ridden a few and it feels great.
  • 1 0
 @CamNeelyCantWheelie: Ye thats a classic from shitmano playbook... we is in trouble mates. those chains cost 2 hundred
  • 146 13
 I don't want batteries on my bike. I don't want to have to charge my bike to ride it. 2̶6̶ cable shifting ain't dead
  • 25 70
flag rcrocha (Mar 21, 2023 at 7:45) (Below Threshold)
 Wrong! You want batteries, you want a motor! You just don't understand, you probably haven't even tried it.
Smile
  • 14 1
 Then this is perfect for you, its $1600 so you won't even be a little tempted and it won't be pre-installed on any bikes. You'll be ok.
  • 6 0
 Charge up that batter! Big Grin
  • 12 2
 Besides the price and the weight, I am discouraged by the fact that I won't be able to ride if the time to do it comes after the bike was stored for a long time. That's not what a bike should be. Heck, even internal combustion cars do better than that.
  • 7 24
flag k2theg (Mar 21, 2023 at 9:55) (Below Threshold)
 @rcrocha: my personal favorite...you just don't like them because you probably can't afford one.
  • 7 24
flag barbasma (Mar 21, 2023 at 10:27) (Below Threshold)
 You ride with smartphone?
Garmin?
  • 47 1
 @barbasma: My bike works perfectly fine if my phone has a dead battery.
  • 10 1
 I don't see any practical reason why they couldn't make a cabled option for this with a barrel adjuster. If they were to come out with that and it was substantially cheaper, I'd probably do it.
  • 4 3
 @presta07: If I understood the videos I watched, the shifting doesn't happen exactly when you press the shift button. It happens when the cassette is in the right spot for a smooth transition. A cabled option likely isn't viable because it would try to shift immediately while an electronic version can delay the shift until the cassette rotates to the ideal location for a smooth shift.
  • 2 0
 I’m constantly looking to charge my phone at oddest times, because I forget to plug in it over night, etc.. I’m just not disciplined enough for this.
  • 4 0
 @joncalhoun: My understanding is that this isn’t a computer-controlled timing (i.e., you push the button, a computer logs the requests to shift and waits for some sensor to let it know the cassette is oriented correctly before executing the shift).

Instead, you shift the cassette’s design/shape/ramps/pins/whatever determine when the chain will actually move over.

Could be wrong though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • 1 1
 @pmhobson: I don't know for sure since I don't work at SRAM, but a few videos mention both firmware and hardware which suggests to me that something in the computer is helping with the timing.

This video - youtu.be/TUE62XCZvks?t=219 - also seems to suggest that there is a slight delay if you do multiple shifts, although it does seem to confirm your theory that the shift window is more mechanical than computer controllers. The firmware might just add delays between shift attempts which would be easier to do than tracking the cassette.
  • 2 0
 @joncalhoun: Really throwing stuff against the wall here, but I could imagine a software-is solution where a shift puts just a tiny bit of torque through the motor. When the cassette position is wrong, the torque isn't enough to move anything. But once that small torque *can* move, it's time to go and the rest of the shift/full torque is initiated.

Pure speculation, to be clear,
  • 2 0
 @joncalhoun: @pmhobson: I've been chewing on how the motors work since my first AXS setup 3 years ago. I think it's the following:
- cassette clocking is impossible. Would need some feedback to make that happen and there is none. Shift smoothness is a function of the cassette design/ramps. This new system has better ramps and a new chain design.
- the delays are the latency of the request to move, and the fact each move is one gear change. You push button once - motor accelerates, travels needed rotations, and then decelerates. You push twice (or press and hold), it does that sequence twice and needs a pause between to ensure position accuracy. Two gear shifts are not one swift move.

The only thing I can't decide: is it a stepper motor with limit switches at each end of travel? Or a *servo* with an encoder. Given this new version does away with limit screws, I'm betting on stepper with reed switches at each end of travel. Either way, putting torque sensing in is highly unlikely due to weight/packaging/cost/power consumption.
  • 1 0
 @b-roc: I would be surprised if this was a motor at all. I would think a solenoid (or two) are all you need.
  • 141 20
 Microshift AdventX, Take the savings, buy some awesome brakes, better fork or a awesome bike trip... IMHO worst place on a bike to spend money / least important.
  • 16 0
 I love my Advent X, I’ve got it on my Chromag hardtail and I have no complaints plus the shifter feels great. When the GX on my other bike wears out I will likely throw a Advent X on there too
  • 16 0
 Right? I have AXS on one of my bikes, and it's great...buuut crazy expensive and unnecessary. Advent X seems like fantastic performance for the money.
  • 18 0
 I had Advent on my hardtail and then AdventX on my last bike. Can't say enough good things about it. Turns out 10 speeds was all I really needed anyway.
  • 14 0
 I am building up a Cotic FlareMax and decided to go with Advent X because I got sick of haggling people for $10 off their beat up XT stuff. Total $180 shipped for shifter, cassette, derailleur, and a SRAM chain.
  • 1 0
 @mca896: How is the performance of Advent vs Advent X? I have Advent on my bike right now and it’s time to replace it. I don’t need the extra gear or range, but if shifting performance or durability is improved, I would consider “upgrading” to Advent X.
  • 18 0
 I think more and more people are realising that transmission is lower priority for spending now. I'm on 11sp but would be happy to drop back down to 10sp as well.
  • 10 0
 I have Advent on a rebuilt 99 Stumpy and it has been flawless for the past 3 or so years. At around $130cdn + $20 for a KMC chain it breathed new life into that old 26er. I've got SLX/XT on my Optic and other than the extra 3 gears not sure if it give me much more I can't imagine spending over a grand on a drivetrain anymore.
  • 9 0
 Just for a different viewpoint, I have had Advent X installed on my Santa Cruz 5010 for 2 years now and while cheap, unfortunately I have not been that impressed. Durability I has been an issue for me, and I’ve had to replace both the derailleur and cassette at pretty low mileage. Additionally it’s very easy to get it out of alignment and shifting to degrade. Im fiddling with it pretty often.

Im not sure id pay $1500, but I would pay good money for a more reliable, consistent and durable drivetrain.
  • 15 1
 @jkrogue: Try the Deore wide range 10sp stuff. It's great and shifts a lot better than the Microshift stuff, IMO. Plus you can pare the cassette with a XT der and Saint shifter if you want. But the base Deore groupset is pretty robust for the price. Only downside is it's slightly heavier than Advent X.
  • 10 1
 New 11 speed Shimano Cues stuff might be the better value proposal for reasons of availability and actual market price.
  • 11 0
 the best thing to happen to me after i broke up with my ex was to steal the magura mt7 and the advent x from the bike i built up for her. i ripped the overpriced and finicky sram stuff off and never looked back.
  • 3 0
 @pcjones: I've ran it on an enduro bike before and it performed okay. There's some "slop" in both derailleurs I've had where the clutch doesn't engage for the first 5-10 degrees of rotation which made it super loud and not pleasant. I've been running Deore 11 Spd on the budget rig and it's been perfect.
  • 1 2
 Fair point, and I agree for most riders, but if you are racing Enduro a missed shift can cost you a lot of time on a stage. I've had a few bikes with poor cable routing that causes the derailleur to come in and out of adjustment when thrashing rock gardens all day. I have Deore 11spd on my hardtail and I feel no need to upgrade that, but for a racebike I would splurge. Then again, everything else on the racebike is probably top spec as well.
  • 4 0
 I've gone for 2nd hand 10spd Deore for my Scout build, can't wait to see what it's like at a grand total of around £50
  • 1 4
 Based on your extensive use of AXS groupsets?
  • 2 0
 @pcjones: Honestly, I noticed zero difference between the two. I just wanted a wide range 10 speed setup because I had old X7 gear before, so went with the AdventX. Both were very reliable and very durable. I don't have a sophisticated enough 'palette' to tell a difference Big Grin
  • 3 0
 @chakaping: you can take your most unused cog out, adjust your limit screw, save some weight and profit Smile
  • 3 4
 @throughtheroofnunderground: $500 for GX AXS is crazy expensive?
  • 2 0
 agreed only drivetrain I haven't had to screw with constantly
  • 3 0
 Spot on. Running advent X for several years now without issue. Works really well.
I don't know why any one needs 12 ratios, it's the range that counts? I find 12 speed extremely annoying, going from climbing to descending, as I do every ride, sometimes you have to shift down 8 or more gears? Completely pointless.

If they put all the latest technology into a top draw 9 or 10 speed with wide range, it would clean up.
  • 4 0
 Personally, I've been running AdventX on and off on one of my bikes for nearly 2 years now. In that time I've broken 4 derailleurs and had a clutch fail. For the money, it's a great drivetrain, but the derailleur and the clutch need some revisions to make me want it over something that costs a bit more. I've also had some ghost-shifting issues, chain drops, and clunky shifts under load. Overall I will keep running it on the hardtail but it's definitely not going on a race bike or one that sees a lot of abuse.

EDIT: The cable also comes out of the derailleur and into the pinch bolt at a ridiculously sharp angle. This has led to snapping inner cables like crazy. I had one last only a month because of this design flaw...
  • 2 1
 @JiminOz: range is important, but so is spacing. Advent has some pretty big gaps. The 11-48 adventx cassette is great, as is the Sunrace 11-46 10 speed casstte thats compatible with Shimano Deore 10speed stuff.
  • 5 0
 Just a heads up to everyone with advent x derailleur problems...i ended up using a 11 speed slx for a better clutch and it worked great with the advent x shifter.
  • 2 0
 I've got advent og on my hardtail, advent x on a family members hardtail that I set up and have used a lot, and sram eagle on my FS. Gotta love advent for how inexpensive it is. Less gears with similar range is really nice, and of course should be more durable. But I've found even low end eagle shifts a lot smoother than either advent system. Advent works fine but it's always felt much more "clunky" to me vs the fast smooth shifts with eagle.
  • 2 0
 I am running a hybrid of Shimano Deore 10spd and AdventX on multiple bikes, and it works great. Deore 10spd shifter and derailleur paired with the lightweight AdventX 11-48t cassette. I did start with a full AdventX setup on one bike, but like hybrid setup better. As a side note, I can also confirm that the Deore 11-46t 10spd cassette works just fine with the AdventX shifter and derailleur.
  • 1 0
 @woofer2609: I am with you on the Sunrace 11speed cassette. Its so much better spaced than the XT offering.
  • 1 0
 @chakaping: I am with you on that. Still running 11 speed and despite it becoming harder to get the freewheeling hubs for wheelsets, i fine i don't need 11 speeds.
  • 2 0
 @woofer2609:
Spot on. I run the 11-48 advent X, but used to run a sunrace 11 speed before I went to microshift, because of exactly that issue. The last couple of jumps on the 11-46 shimano cassette were ridiculous.
  • 1 0
 What is the advantage of Advent over Acolyte? All I can see is that you can engage the clutch without a tool (with Acolyte you use an allen key) and that you get more gears. I went with Acolyte but I'm curious what makes people opt for Advent instead.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: Range. Acolyte is 8spd, Advent is 9, AdventX is 10. I went AdventX because I had a 10spd SRAM X7 setup that grenaded itself and I wanted something clutched that was reasonably priced.
  • 129 16
 I’ll stick with Shimano mechanical
  • 41 8
 I feel like a bunch of people are lusting after the next big thing, when the only drivetrain of interest to me is the new Shimano linkglide. I'd rather go for cheap (and heavy) and durable than beep-boop 13 speed house down payment priced wizardry.
  • 26 0
 @ratedgg13: Are you saying I don't need my oil slick 14 speed XX1 AXS for riding the local green trails?
  • 7 0
 @ratedgg13: The only advantages with this that catch my eye are the durability and the ease of setup. If they had a mechanical version of this, I think there's plenty of justification to move toward that. Standardization is good.
  • 12 0
 @presta07: I'll wait for shimano to release a link glide deore system with udh mount for 1/25th the price.
  • 3 0
 As said previously, I’ll stick with Shimano cassette and chain and AXS
  • 1 1
 @ratedgg13: 20% down equals a drivetrain bro? Where u buying, pennsyltucky??
  • 5 1
 @pargolf8: its called hyperbole
  • 3 1
 @ratedgg13: whats that
  • 1 0
 I converted most to Shimano cassette and chain with SRAM cable derailleur and shifter. I like effortless shifters of SRAM better than Shimano.
  • 108 10
 High praise from Kazimer has me very interested! We'll have to see how the market takes up this new technology, but it looks pretty interesting even if the price of entry is well beyond my means.
  • 35 10
 So it's not cheap, but I have several buddies who work for SRAM and have had this hanging off their bikes for a while now. It's worth the hype, shifting is crisp and really can do it whenever, and its absolutely bullet proof like lay your bike down jump on the derailleur and not only does nothing break but it shifts perfectly after words, its kinda crazy. Also just looking at these things in person you'll get a feel for how stout it is, chain, cassette, chain ring this thing is burly.
  • 27 0
 So
Everyone is now
Making UDH compatible frames?
  • 21 28
flag s100 (Mar 21, 2023 at 7:29) (Below Threshold)
 3 mortgage payments for a group set?
  • 154 3
 @Jvisscher: your igloo is very affordable.
  • 43 0
 @flattoflat: hahaha thought about the same, please let me know where you live with your mortgage payment is 600$
  • 21 34
flag WestwardHo (Mar 21, 2023 at 7:42) (Below Threshold)
 @pbfan08: It's not a good thing that the derailleur doesn't break. The whole point of a derailleur hanger is to protect your frame. With direct mount, If the derailleur doesn't break then that means your frame is next in line. I'd love to see some videos of these people jumping on the derailleur of their carbon bikes.
  • 28 0
 is this tech (direct mount, chain, in-line cage, etc.) going to be available in a cable actuated version?
  • 6 1
 At least they include the 'batter' cus SRAM will make a lot of dough from cycling community
  • 5 2
 @gtill9000: I'm also interested in this, I have a feeling that the cable actuated systems are still what most users want. Personally I've switched to shimano derailleur because of the crap sram clutch, but if a non-electronic version would inherit the stated benefits of the direct mount concept, maybe I'd consider going back again to sram.
  • 24 2
 @WestwardHo: The fact that the axle runs right through it takes the stress off the frame. This is very different from old school type of screwin your derailleur onto a piece of steel plate that is part of the dropout.
  • 6 6
 @gtill9000: No the all cables will be outlawed by 2024.
  • 2 4
 @Compositepro: If not now, they will have them in the market soon. No one wants to make a bike that can't take SRAM' or Shimano's top-tier groupset
  • 22 0
 @WestwardHo: Traditionally, yes, but this thing is bolted to the axle, not the frame, so it will take far more force than a traditional mech hanger. In order to brake the frame, you'll need to brake the axle, and in that instance, I suspect the frame will be the least of your worries.
  • 30 2
 @Jvisscher: $500 mortgage payment? In Canada? Does your tent have heat?
  • 9 1
 @Jvisscher: Or for some, one third of a mortgage payment
  • 1 0
 @Jvisscher: Dang dude! I want to live where you live! More like 3/4 of a mortgage payment in Phoenix these days!
  • 7 1
 @SlavikChris: yeah it's probably his van payment parked in squamish walmart parking lot
  • 8 25
flag s100 (Mar 21, 2023 at 9:07) (Below Threshold)
 @souknaysh: assuming 90% down or 5%? Anywhere you have all but $120,000 down.

Here’s kinda how I did it. Kelowna was too $$. Moved to 100 Mile and bought for $350. 17.5k down. Sold within 5 years for $950k to everyone moving up from the coast during covid. Took $750 and bought a 2.5 bed place in Squamish for $920,000 = $600 mortgage payments. Rent it out at $3300/mo. Now the place is worth 1.1M.
  • 5 4
 @souknaysh: you do realise the more you put down on a house the less your monthly payment is!! My buddy pays just over 400 a month for his!!
  • 3 0
 @Jvisscher: damn i want your mortgage
  • 6 10
flag s100 (Mar 21, 2023 at 9:43) (Below Threshold)
 @RFrogh: I told friends to do what I was planning to do and invited them to join me. They declined except for one. Now that I did it they say I was lucky. The one who came bought for $199,000 renovated it and can sell now for 1.2M. He also bought a company and then sold it for a business sized profit. That group set is too expensive.
  • 5 6
 Oddly, the one friend who declined to move bought a $17,500 bike instead. And is still renting.
  • 4 0
 @pbfan08: I’m not surprised it’s expensive. They seem to have given hundreds of sets away for this launch
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: no. Not even close to half
  • 2 0
 I like this drivetrain, but AXS + Shimano cassette and chain will remain my go to for the time being.
  • 2 3
 @Compositepro: Several manufacturers have been making them, even if they weren't specced with them. I talked to the Rocky Mountain guys at the Sedona bike festival and they casually mentioned that my wife's 2021 instinct could use the UDH in the "longer" option of the dropout flip chip.
  • 1 1
 @Compositepro: they have to, nothing is backward compatable and they will phase out repalcements for the now obsolete derailleur hanger mount option
  • 7 2
 @Jvisscher: so what you are really bragging about here is the fact that you can actually afford this new drivetrain?

Weird flex.
  • 1 0
 @Chondog94: 1/5.....summit County. Back to work...
  • 2 8
flag s100 (Mar 21, 2023 at 13:06) (Below Threshold)
 @elsinore: I was answering Chris’s question. If everyone could be helped by doing the same or better that would be nice. Some people prefer to cheat and use others experiences for help. Some for what to do, others for what not to do.
  • 3 1
 Ok so there’s a few frames and one group set I can choose from on my dentist build I feel a bit limited
  • 3 1
 @Jvisscher: or a root canal
  • 2 2
 @Jvisscher: If my mortgage was as cheap as yours, I would be able to afford it
  • 1 5
flag s100 (Mar 21, 2023 at 16:10) (Below Threshold)
 @gooral: no because you would have spent all your money on your downpayment.
  • 6 3
 @Jvisscher: lol, you clearly did not get it. You spent all that money on down-payment, so you can have low monthly mortgage repayment amounts, get it. This is the point. It is exceptionally low comparing to most people and this is what everyone is trying to tell you. Not interested in story of your life and "oh how smart I am", no one cares, just stating that if this amount covers 3 rates for you, it is a small monthly cost and then if my cost was as low, I would be able to afford it. That is all.
  • 99 14
 a 100$ chain, just what everyone wanted.....
  • 14 8
 That weighs twice as much as standard chain
  • 34 4
 @tomo12377, there was a typo - it's 256 grams, in line with other 12-speed chains.
  • 37 30
 My money goes to linkglide stuff.. sorry . I had enough non-sense
  • 2 10
flag Trentabartlett (Mar 21, 2023 at 7:40) (Below Threshold)
 @tomo12377: it’s true it’s expensive but the new chain lasts 300% more. I’ve had to replace my chainring twice before even considering to change my chain.
  • 16 0
 @Trentabartlett: Maybe that's a benefit for e-bikes, but the old X01 and XX1 chains lasted forever. I finally replaced one at 4k miles just because it felt like I must be pushing my luck, but it was nowhere near .5% elongation.
  • 5 0
 @maxwrbike
Pssh, don't be cheap. XX SL is $150.
  • 2 0
 @DaneL: I've managed that on several eMTBs, which just goes to show just how bomb-proof those chains are. I have XO1 chains on both my current eMTBs, both are into the thousands of kilometres range. Had one on a previous bike that did 8,000kms (5,000 miles)!!!
  • 13 1
 not that we are roadies around here counting watts, but the efficiency of these SRAM flat top chains generally isn't all that great compared to other manufacturers including KMC and YBN.

Sure the chain will last you forever, but you'll be paying for it on every pedal stroke up that long sucky fire road climb.

zerofrictioncycling.com.au/chaintesting
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: off the topic of the chain, but the prior article said the drivetrain makes super boost absolute. Is this drivetrain compatible with super boost and will it change the approach for companies making it like Pivot?
  • 4 1
 @jdendy, yes, this drivetrain is Superboost compatible. I'm not sure what the move to a wider chainline means for the future of Superboost, but it does seem to make it even less necessary than before.
  • 8 1
 @mikekazimer: it means the cranks will work on a boost and superboost bike because they both share a 55mm chainline so if anything they are recognizing the benefits of superboost
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: How did they move to a wider chainline on the same width hub?
  • 2 1
 @palirojo: pretty sure this would make a superboost bike have an even wider chainline. So you'd have to add a 2.5mm spacer to your BB on the drive side to get the correct chainline.
  • 1 0
 Scratch that. It looks like they pushed the chainring interface out further, so you still just use a 0mm offset chainring for superboost.
  • 1 0
 @miles-e: The cassette bumps right up against the frame.
  • 6 1
 @mikekazimer: The reason superboost exists is to have a 157mm wide hub to increase torsional stiffness in the rear triangle. The increased chainline is just a byproduct. Now with both boost and superboost sharing a 55mm chainline, compatability is increased between hub sizes. Pivot is shipping superboost bikes with SRAM Transmission starting today.
  • 1 0
 @tomo12377: Likely so they can use the same one on e-bikes.
  • 1 0
 @DaneL: I would agree with that logic but it seems that's not what's being done for OEM superboost bikes. From what I can see on websites SB bikes are just running the standard 55mm chainline so it must work.
  • 66 2
 SRAM Transmission Derailleur = STD
  • 3 7
flag Saidrick (Mar 21, 2023 at 11:51) (Below Threshold)
 Nominating for Comment Gold…
  • 78 21
 direct mount is scary, working in a shop that sold Cervelo's any time someone bent their hanger they likely needed a new frame. Not a super fun conversation. I get that SRAM says this is very strong but some of the small carbon lips that frames used to hold the UDH in place have been some of the bike industry's most frequent failures. Time will tell I guess.
  • 14 2
 That would be my concern. I'm glad they parts are replaceable but my concern would be damaging the swingarm on a bike. Also will it load the axle and possible increase wear on the rear hub
  • 9 2
 SRAMs AXS won´t brake, so it´s not their fault? Big Grin
  • 20 9
 exactly don't know what they were thinking, instead of replacing a cheap derailleur hanger, you'd then be replacing you entire frame? like what's the goal here?
  • 20 2
 Idk, this doesn't seem that similar to old style direct mount to me. Old direct mount was basically just a derailleur hanger integrated into the frame, whereas here the derailleur basically mounts to (and is concentric to) the axle. I don't see how smashing the RD would break the frame unless it also snapped the axle, which is extreme enough that you'd probably be wrecking your frame either way.

Other than the ridiculous cost this actually looks pretty sick IMO.
  • 8 3
 @briain: Its clever and SRAM can easily shift blame away from them for causing the damage, putting it on to frame design and durability. Could lead to a whole load of frame warranties when previously it was a simple hanger/mech replacement post crash.
  • 10 0
 easy we just all go back to steel frames. (prior to aluminum frames, the hanger wasn't replaceable, because with steel, you can just bend it back. those derailleur hanger alignment tools? yea, you can use them on modern hangers, but they were initially invented to bend back the integrated hanger on a steel frame.)

Also, obviously, i'm joking. I'd be happier if they acknowledged that problems happen, and actually talked about failure modes. maybe it's just that strong, and we're all worried for nothing, but I wouldn't be suprised if they start talking about it in at the release of the next version if a lot of horror stories happen, or uptake on this will be about as much as it was when Shimano tried to do the same thing about 15 years ago, aka, essentially ignored by bike companies.

Though certainly, there are more UDH bikes on the market already, than there ever were bikes that supported Shimano direct mount.
  • 4 0
 fair comment, each design needs a break point...
  • 3 0
 @stephenzkie: the goal seems to be creating a transmission with consistent shifting regardless of the frame it's installed on. but in my opinion, 52t chainrings require so much extra chain that the cage hangs so low and is so prone to getting rock strikes or damage from crashing. they put in all this time and money into this new system when they could've been trying to solve the problem of a low hanging derailleur — either by coming up with a more low-profile system, derailleur relocation, or lighter gearboxes.
  • 5 2
 The twisting and lateral force a wheel puts on the rear triangle is astronomically higher than bumping the derailleur into a rock, the frame will be fine, the derailleur is connected to the axle just like the wheel.
  • 4 0
 @dividebyzero: I'm not sure. The rear end is triangulated to brace for those loads. My concern is the point load from a rock strike would do to the side of the swing arm. I could be wrong but is adding complexity the answer?
  • 6 2
 @briain: the RD is triangulated to the axle inside and outside the dropout. You'd have to bend/break the rear axle to transmit load to the stays.
  • 1 2
 It seems like they are expecting the plates that mount the derailleur to the axle to be the sacrificial part in this case. If that's true and they are cheaper than a 50 dollar CNC machined derailleur hanger, then this is a step in the right direction.
  • 3 1
 @bkm303: I'm not saying it will definitely break a swing arm but it's a concern as the derailleur acts as a lever if it takes an impact. It would be the equivalent of getting a vice grips and bending the dropout. Not sure of the frame specs for the UDH but unless they specified a load rating there isn't a frame that was specifically designed to take this derailleur system. Ultimately at $1600 I don't think I'm willing to take the risk for a marginal improvement. Sram may have considered the loads for the plates to break but how do we know and I don't want to end up in a warranty dispute between two companies of who's at fault
  • 11 1
 @briain: pretty sure load/flatness/etc requirements are baked into the UDH standard for frames. But again, the axle runs through the whole thing, and the frame member is basically just a smooth tube that goes around it. It's nothing like your vise grip example. It's more like sticking a hex key into the end of a thru axle on a fully assembled rear end and trying to bend the frame by pushing on it. You can try that on your existing bike and you'll probably bend the hex key before you deflect the axle enough to damage the frame. Torsional load ratings of the UDH interface (whether they exist or not) don't even come into play unless the axle isn't there.
  • 1 1
 @dividebyzero: Very good point. Just think of the force placed on the axle and rear triangle from a sloppily landed whip. I don't think I'd ever wast money on a top of the line wireless drivetrain but i think the direct mount is solid idea.
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: if the axle is loose? if the threads in the axle let go? i know these aren't common, but it'd be nice if they addressed it at all, given the fact that almost anyone who's been riding more than 5+ years has probably ripped a derailleur off, bent a hanger, etc.
  • 2 2
 @briain: both the left and the right sides are braced on the axle, not the frame, no matter how you hit it the force is being supported by the axle in 2 spots. The interface looks way over engineered for strength, it will take a pretty catastrophic crash to damage the axle so much that you damage the frame too.
  • 2 2
 @groghunter: how do you think a normal frame will behave if the axle lets go? Come on, no frame is made to handle that
  • 2 1
 @stephenzkie: I disagree, I broke 3 to 4 derailleurs (Shimano 12 spd XT, SLX and DEORE) and none of the times did the hanger give in. It did bend once, when I was on the deore, fixed it, crashed, hanger was straight derailluer was bent.

Then I bought a GX (cable) derailleur, hit a rock, derailleur stopped shifting right and the hanger was straight.
I can't afford any more derailleurs so I just bent one of the hangers I have to make the GX shift well. So far so good, haven't broken it for a while now.
  • 1 0
 @ZhengZL: ever consider single speed? lol jk
  • 8 0
 At the price of the derailleur I will just carry a spare rear triangle and hope that breaks first....
  • 2 2
 @groghunter: you’re searching for problems that don’t exist just as hard as bike companies engineer solutions to problems that don’t exist
  • 4 0
 @bertimusmaximus: @bkm303

You know why it was on my mind? because i had a friend tell me it happened to them 2 days ago. and no, the frame didn't die. people make mistakes, axles end up loose.

If the axle is now a load bearing member in the derailleur attachment system, then it's at least a reasonable question to ask, if now instead of a hanger bending, my axle is going to bend, or the load will exceed the strength of the threads, especially in aluminum. It's almost as if... I'm a machinist and have actually seen things fail in this exact way in real life. weird....

Energy doesn't disappear. if it's not being dissipated by a breaking hanger, then it's going somewhere else.

edit: and anyway, my larger point wasn't about specific failure modes. it was about removing a part known to be a sacrificial component, and not even really even speaking about how that changes the system.
  • 2 3
 @groghunter: I think it's completely reasonable for bike/component designers to assume you're going to attach a key structural component of the bike. And if that's true, then you have nothing to worry about. We can play the what if / edge case game forever. I've had a TA loosen many times but never had one back completely out of the dropout. You'd have to be totally clueless to (a) not hear/feel your axle being completely detached, and (b) be simultaneously going mach stupid into a rock with your derailleur. Not SRAMs problem.
  • 3 0
 @bkm303:

(a) You would be surprised what rolls in, " I was just riding along and ...."
(b) Not true, " I was just riding along and then a 2" diameter stick just jumped out of the woods and lodges itself there"...

This seems like a design put out by a team who doesn't pay for their bike stuff and isn't old enough to remember when rear triangles on our hartails in the 90s got damaged while just riding along...Something is going to gives and my 500$ derailleur or my 1000$ rear triangle ( that will be impossible to find on 2-3 years) is not the correct answer. Shit happens out on the trail and more then once in my lifetime a hanger has saved the derailleur and the rear triangle ( and on occasion when I have the spare on me, the ride).
  • 2 2
 @pink505: I've had several run-ins with 2" sticks and I've never had a hanger save my derailleur. I just ended up with a snapped hanger, *in addition to* a mangled cage and broken spokes. I don't believe hangers actually did much to help that particular problem, especially since we moved to giant cassettes and super long cages.

The derailleur hanger solved a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place (derailleurs being super fragile and protruding outboard with ridiculous loops of cable). If you minimize how much the RD protrudes outboard, and make the outboard part of the RD beefy enough to jump up and down on, and integrate it with the axle structure, 99% of those problems disappear. Hell even with standard RD mounting, ever since Shadow+ came out I barely have problems, and I used to kill RDs/hangers every season. I still have a working X9 Type 2 mech with thousands of miles on it. And it was ridden on the east coast with twigs all over the ground.

2" diameter sticks will continue to wreck chains, spokes, and cages, just like they do with standard RDs. But there is basically zero chance of a stick wrecking your frame with this new design because it would have to snap your axle first. The cage will bend and the chain will snap long before the axle shears off and allows the dropout to get twisted. I 100% agree that the cost is ludicrous and would never buy it for myself, but if this mounting system comes down to the GX/NX price point (or better yet, Shimano comes up with something similar on CUES/Deore) I'll be all over it.
  • 3 0
 @bkm303: I agree current positioning/design has nearly eliminated destroyed RDs for me as well. Something is going to give, a few spokes and a new $120 RD I can live with every 5 years...Not sure I want to use a 500$ one or risking cracking my rear triangle because the RD is "too strong" even if properly tucked away. Will be interesting to see Shimano's take on it, if we ever see one.
  • 2 0
 Fanatik coming in with some science: www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3QzPxdN1e4

edit: this is painful to watch fyi.
  • 2 0
 @pink505: if you haven't already, you should check out the Fanatik video. I reeeeeeeeeaaaalllly don't think anyone needs to worry about RD strikes cracking the frame. And this makes total sense if you look at how the Transmission RD is installed, with the clevis mount being braced to the axle.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3QzPxdN1e4

I totally agree with you about the insanity of spending $500 on a derailleur. But keep in mind that this group is X01 AXS level - if we're comparing list prices apples to apples, this RD is $550 and a current X01 AXS RD is $538 (full price) - so we're only talking about a $12 difference vs the hanger-mounted RD. Overall most of this pricing looks similar to current X01 AXS stuff (other than the $100 chain - f*ck that, that's completely insane).

From looking at the Transmission RD (and at list pricing), it doesn't look like there's anything inherently expensive about the direct mount interface, and IMO it solves several problems without really creating any big new ones. If this trickles down to GX mechanical price points, I'd happily pay a little extra (probably $10-20 based on these prices) to eliminate the hanger and all the alignment issues it creates, get a bulletproof upper assembly, and have the cage and parallelogram parts be easily replaceable.

Honestly my biggest worry with this tech is that it definitely looks like it's designed to be electronic from the ground up. I'm wondering if they'll even bother going mechanical with it. Another review (escape collective) talks about how the software basically speed-limits shifting to prevent breaking chains/teeth... which is super cool, but not something you can really do in mechanical without getting rid of multi-shift. I guess time will tell.
  • 2 1
 m.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxgxHiijF0

Let's destroy frames instead of derailleur hangers ‍♂️
  • 1 2
 @tralebuilder: yeah let's listen to the armchair engineer who's never used the hardware or seen it in person, and released a video riddled with mistakes and basic misunderstandings about how the system works (at least he acknowledged them). I normally like Peak Torque but that video was ass. His best content is definitely when he's making stuff or actually going out and testing stuff.
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: Only time will tell who is right. Those forces are going somewhere and although easier with today's simulations in cadworks to evaluate stress on structures it is far from perfect. Big impacts are so rare on the RD these days that it will likely be too infrequent an event to become a serious issue. Just buy a frames from the companies with a no questions asked frame warranty policy just in case.
  • 1 2
 @pink505: I mean it's not a big mystery where this design is sending the forces. It's the thru axle. You don't need FEA to figure that out.

But yes, I agree that big impacts are rare nowadays, which IMO is all the more reason to get rid of the hanger and all the slop it creates (esp for 12 speed). I also agree with buying frames from companies that support their products, for sure.
  • 1 0
 @mattmatthew: haha, actually yes. But I did also consider going 11 speed (would require changing everything + freehub) or less, or maybe even a gearbox frame.

I'm currently broke though so I just bend the hangers to offset the bend on the derailleur.
  • 57 7
 I had a killer ride yesterday, trail prime, nobody around, my bike was flawless. This bit of tech would not improve my ride one bit.
  • 18 3
 For some types of folks it would improve their ride massively when lots of people (especially friends) are around to go "ooOOo is that the new Transmission!?!? How do you liiiiike it????"
  • 26 0
 Yeah, as my dear old granddad used to say, "The only point of advertising is to make you dissatisfied with what you already have."
  • 54 7
 After a ton of muddy miles, the verdict is... we still haven't figured out how to disable the auto play
  • 7 0
 That was also my first criticism of this drivetrain article
  • 44 0
 Just $1.6k?
I'll take two.

Also, stop the auto play finally!
  • 2 0
 AutoplayStopper
  • 5 0
 bless up for disabling autoplay
  • 4 0
 jk it's "working" again Frown
  • 1 0
 Thats extra
  • 4 0
 Auto-anti-autoplay-comment.
  • 43 4
 3 things that need to die: headset cable routing, superboost hub spacing, autoplay
  • 4 0
 One of those you can kill with AutoplayStopper in chrome. I'm still looking for the plugin that kills the other two, I'll get back to you on that.
  • 7 0
 Direct mount deraillers. Pinkbike: "We've noticed the comments..."
Headset cable routing. Pinkbike: "We've noticed the comments..."
Autoplay video. Pinkbike: "..."
  • 3 0
 @DizzyNinja: singlespeed steel hardtail
  • 1 1
 But which would you f*ck, marry or kill?
  • 38 7
 "Dad, what were the before times like?"

"Well son, the air was clear, you could eat fruit you picked from a tree, the rivers were clean & fresh"

"But not any more?"

"No son, Im afraid some people wanted electronics on everything, we hollowed out the earth & poisoned it all- because dentists didnt like cables on their man toys"
  • 2 0
 We can only dream Smile
  • 4 0
 Is that why there is maxxis in this fresh fish? Yes son those little pieces of maxxis were once a toy for the leisure seeking rich.
  • 36 4
 Like everything SRAM it will be designed up to a standard and then manufactured down to a price.
  • 3 0
 Thats basically the case with many products. Cars are designed the same way: Start with the performance model and cross out options to get a base model. Therefore: If the technology has come to stay, expect more affordable options in two to three years.
  • 10 0
 @Norman22: To be fair to Sram. The previous generation of AXS was actually great on the lower end of things. Same electronics just a little heavier. I've been running rival axs on my gravel bike because it was cheaper to buy then APEX and so far so good
  • 3 0
 @briain: I personally can not tell a difference between the XX1 AXS, and the GX AXS on my two bikes.
  • 2 1
 @JSTootell: you really shouldn't be able to as the insides are identical. Truthfully I can't tell the difference between deore, slx and xt 12 speed with an xt shifter
  • 5 4
 @briain: they feel almost identical out of the box. 12 months later though and the Deore will be in the bin, SLX will be looking worse for wear and the XT will still feel like new. XT doesn’t really cost that much when you take into account how long you can expect it to last.
  • 7 1
 @thenotoriousmic: XT snapped in half, SLX is a bit worse for wear and Deore is going strong. So my own experience is the exact opposite. But if I had to buy another one tomorrow it would be a Deore
  • 2 6
flag thenotoriousmic (Mar 21, 2023 at 18:28) (Below Threshold)
 @briain: suit yourself but I’ve got two full broken deore groupsets in my parts bin including brakes, less than a year old that just fell to bits or broke from crappy little knocks. It’s utter junk, made from cheese and it’s expensive for what it is. 2/3 price of XT, just spend the extra third and get something made from metal.
  • 2 0
 @briain: Interesting! I’ve got a XT shifter on both my bikes, one mated to a XTR derailleur and the other to Deore. There’s a big difference in how light the shift action is, even when both have new cables and housings.
  • 1 0
 @riish: I couldn't find the part code.but there's a piece were the cable enters the derailleur on xtr which apparently makes the shifting much better. So that could be the difference and xtr is the only shimano 12 speed. I've spent real time on. To be perfectly honest it hadn't been for all the parts shortages in the last couple of years I probably wouldn't of tried anything other than xt
  • 1 0
 Sorry meant to say haven't spent real time on
  • 38 9
 Above XTR prices (X01) at XT weights. Might be time to head back to Shimano on the next bike.
  • 22 3
 Shimano actually has a second gear too instead of jumping from 1st straight to 3rd! 10 teeth is still way too much for the last jump. My XT cassette goes 42-46-51 and feels great.
  • 3 4
 @schu2470: I do like the jumps on the shimano cassette, but I prefer the shifting feel of sram... I like the shimano XT brake feel better, but prefer the reliability of Codes...

eh... can they just make a baby with the best of both?
  • 3 0
 @schu2470: I think your XT cassette goes 39-45-51.
  • 1 0
 @141: Now that I think about it you're right. Regardless, still feels quite a bit better than 42-52 or 42-50 or SRAM.

What I really wish is for SRAM to release an 11sp cassette with 10-44/45. My fat bike has 11sp GX and an XD driver unfortunately and I've read mixed reviews on the 3rd party XD 11sp cassettes that go to 46T. Too expensive to switch over to Shimano for what it is.
  • 1 0
 @schu2470: This new cassette is 32 - 38 - 44 - 52. Still a larger gap than Shimano, but should be quite a bit better than the old 10 gap
  • 2 0
 @ridedigrepeat: it's called TRP
  • 2 1
 @ridedigrepeat: I'm pretty sure you can run AXS shifter/Derailleur on a Shimano cassette. You just need a chain that plays well with both systems like KMC.
  • 2 0
 @Glory831Guy: I've read that you run the chain that's compatible with the cassette. Shimano cassettes and chains work just fine with GX AXS. Without the Shimano chain Hyperglide+ doesn't work.
  • 22 2
 Full sprint at max watts breathing through your eyeballs and you hit the shifter and you have to wait, or not, for the cassette to be ready to shift? What you describe is lag, which really doesn’t jive with the idea of a crisp shift.

Standing on the axle to show how stiff the derailleur is? Please. Stand on the lower pulley wheel until it’s into the spokes and show me that Yeti surviving that. Direct mount. What’s old is new again.
  • 1 3
 He also describes incredibly quick shifting (I know because I read the article). I'm not sure where you could be getting this, unless you have personal experience.
  • 4 0
 @ThatOneGuyInTheComments: their description of how the cassette works.
  • 25 2
 I paid $180 for a complete Microshift Advent X drivetrain lol.
  • 1 0
 Freaking a, I paid less for my car than this drivetrain. Hell I didn't pay much more than this for my SLX complete. I've ridden Di2 on bikes belonging to, uh, "wealthier" friends and the shifting is crisp - but not $1500 crisp. I haven't been on PB for a while but holy cow I've never seen a price tag like that for a groupset

Should drop out of engineering school now and switch to the pre-med track I suppose. That, or start machining my own derailleurs
  • 21 2
 Takes hat off head and places it on his chest:-

I'm Shimano till I die,
Shimano till I die,
I know I am I'm sure I am,
I'm shimano till I die.
  • 1 2
 Shimano could make a derailleur and cassette that integrate the same way. Standardizing the attachment of the derailleur to the frame doesn't preclude innovation from competitors, it just makes the things that suck about derailleur hangers go away.
  • 4 0
 @presta07: Pretty sure i saw a while back that SRAM patented the attachment this way.
  • 1 1
 @ripcraft: I'd be surprised, considering that they left the UDH with an open patent, but I have been surprised before.
  • 20 3
 For god's sake we want a gearbox with a reasonable weight that you can shift while pedaling, not another $1000 derailleur hanging off the back of the frame.
  • 3 0
 "A gearbox with reasonable weight that you can shift while pedalling"

Fusion is 30 years out man...
  • 20 2
 $1600!!!!????

WTF!!!!????
  • 5 16
flag danielfloyd (Mar 21, 2023 at 7:37) (Below Threshold)
 It actually makes sense in a long-term durability stand point. If it really is as durable as they say, you'd end up saving money over time this way over other derailleurs that break more easily. If it breaks easily though, I don't think it's worth it.
  • 15 0
 @danielfloyd: In theory yes... but a brand new Shimano XT derailleur is $119 vs the $550 of the SRAM. You'd have to go through 5 derailleurs to reach a break even point. I know some people are harsher on RDs than others but I've only broken 1 or 2 in my 20 years of riding.

I'm all for products being stronger and less likely to end up in the landfill but the bike industry will likely change standards before you can get your money's worth (vs XT) out of this derailleur.
  • 5 1
 @danielfloyd: My Microshift Advent drivetrain costs $126 for cassette, derailleur and chain. I could replace those parts 8.3 times for what it would cost for the same parts in this system from SRAM. There is no way it is 8x as durable.
  • 2 0
 Patiently waiting for the SX AXS version. Trickle down tech and all that jazz.
  • 5 0
 @OCSunDevil: Absolutely. The Shimano drivetrain value for money is exceptional and reliable. Given I imagine only this new system starts to get back up or beat what Shimano already had in the shifting department. Innovation is great, and it's good their pushing the boundaries, but I can't see it hitting the mark for too many people when their are such good alternatives out there. Because, you know, I adjust my limit screws, b tension and barrel adjuster so much ....
  • 17 1
 Will there be a cable actuated version of SRAM Transmission? I have no interest in batteries on my bikes.
  • 3 0
 100% no.
  • 2 15
flag NZracer91 (Mar 21, 2023 at 9:59) (Below Threshold)
 but you probably carry a smart phone or atleast a bike computer.... neither are needed on a ride either...
  • 10 0
 @NZracer91: My iphone provides a level of utility beyond a derailleur. It would be like saying why don't I make my iphone case tubeless
  • 10 1
 @NZracer91: And when the battery dies on either of those, I don't care and keep riding.
  • 13 0
 That buys a lot of 12 speed SLX derailleurs.
Are people really breaking this many derailleurs? I think I may have broken one in like 5 years and I ride east coast rocks and at bike parks all the time, I've bent some hangers and scratched some up but not often am I totally destroying one.
Maybe try making sure you're not on the biggest cogs before descending.
  • 3 4
 The current crop of Shimano derailleurs are pretty weak. I've broken a 12 speed XT, SLX, and Deore, all on different types of trails, and different bikes. I have a buddy who's broken three of the 11 speed Deore ones all pretty recently. (mine have been good so far compared to the 12 speed) Hopefully CUES changes this. I will take a huge weight penalty to not have my derailleur shot into my spokes and cause me to crash again.
  • 15 4
 MTB needs a fully enclosed, transmission-like solution for drivetrain. I understand current drawbacks of current gearboxes, but having a vulnerable part hanging off the back of your bike is annoying. This feels like the apex of the technological dead-end.
  • 7 1
 just wish shimano and sram focused more on a gearbox with a standardised mount, that would be way better for everybody
  • 2 0
 If you are a fan of enclosed gears, the Kindernay Hub is an extremely interresting option. the 7 speed is incredibly light too.
  • 6 1
 In principle, there is a lot to love about the idea of a gearbox on a bike. Plenty of reviews on Zerodes and others praise the improved suspension performance and lower/centered center of gravity of the designs. But the issues is drag and efficiency loss + the weight of the system.

Simply put, it may be near impossible to eliminate enough of the drag to make gearbox systems scale. But I'd love to be wrong!
  • 1 0
 @KJP1230: and shifting under load without adding weight to the gearbox would be difficult too.
  • 1 1
 @KJP1230: If you've ever read about the history of the bicycle, it started as wooden "draisines". People didn't think it was physically possible to create a kinetic energy machine which was more efficient than walking. And it wasn't, until years of technological advances reduced weight and created the modern drivetrain.

Gearboxes are certainly the future, it will just take years of refinement.
  • 4 0
 @mkul7r4: Its a cute historical analogy, but don't forget that the current gearboxes are delivered during a time of quantum physics and 102 years since the invention of the modern, automatic automotive transmission.

Listen, I am not saying that gearboxes cannot be greatly improved. Advances in materials science, design and manufacturing are likely to radically improve their performance over time. That said, there are fundamental issues with the form factor, including faster internal cog rotation (because of size constraints) and chain rotation which introduce significant friction. As of today, pinion systems are ~90% efficient when compared to standard transmissions. There is no way I am giving up 20-30 watts in exchange for the modest advantages of a gearbox.

If you can get that number down to ~5 watts (97.5% efficiency relative to standard drivetrains), I'd be interested.
  • 1 1
 @KJP1230: This is where the Shimano and SRAM high-dollar R&D budget comes in. it will be figured out eventually. I would not be giving up 10% of my power just to run a gearbox either. It's got to make sense and that's why the current gearbox offerings don't have more of a following.
  • 15 4
 I don't like the feeling that SRAM introduced UDH as a sneaky way to shoehorn in another forced bike change down the road. It's like at first UDH seemed a pretty non-selfish idea to benefit everyone without forcing new standard on us all yet again. But then, nope, their new top-end drivetrains require it (but don't actually use it). If Shimano follows suit, it could be bad. There are lots of people that spent many thousands on high end bikes that could need to be downgraded to mid-range drivetrains when their first chain wears out. It's not like drivetrains last forever (or even many years in some cases). If high end goes direct mount for all the players, it will not be good.

Hopefully Shimano doesn't follow SRAM, and I will happily stay with my dinosaur cables and derailleur hanger (that weight less, cost less or the same, and operate identically as far as I'm concerned). Otherwise, I will definitely take another look at Microshift. I like their philosophy of fewer gears with nearly the same range.
  • 8 17
flag plustiresaintdead (Mar 21, 2023 at 10:17) (Below Threshold)
 Forced a new standard? You mean the standard of every single bike being a different "standard"? You're a bright one aren't ya
  • 1 0
 No one mentioned UDH going away. It's still a great hanger and the bike industry is better for having a standard.
  • 10 0
 That is pretty cool drive train and seems pretty tough to boot! The unfortunate thing is drive train isn't as important as brakes/suspension/wheels, for 30% of the price, you can get an XT group, which shifts well under load, is easy to setup, isn't heavy, and most importantly, fits on any bike with any derailleur hanger. However, my sentiment has been similar with the past 3-4 SRAM XX1/XO1 launches as if I run SRAM, its going to be GX. So, this drivetrain isn't meant for me or people with similar views to me, but it is cool, and it does push the advance the needle for mountain bikes in general, so bravo SRAM!
  • 10 0
 "The force required for the derailleur to affect the frame would be extraordinary, the type of hit that would likely rip a traditional derailleur clean off and shove it into the spokes."

I've seen this shit happen so many times, that does not give me any confidence that people won't be breaking frames left and right with this system. There's a good reason why the industry went away from direct mount in the first place.
  • 10 0
 Exactly. I'm not convinced, and I'm old enough to have had to put frames in the trash that didn't have replaceable hangers, which is why I would never go back to that again.
The sort of heavy angled/torqued hit that rips off a derailleur into the spokes does happen, and right now results in a new hanger, a repaired or more likely replaced derailleur, and some wheel work. What it doesn't do is result in the frame being toast. The hanger is designed to be replaced - it has one job, to take that force from impact and bend/break at a certain load.
A static load test standing on the thing is absolutely nothing like a real world heavy hit, and that force has to go somewhere...
Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I'll let the early adopters find out first.
  • 17 4
 Lol when you can buy an entire XT groupo (with 4pot brakes + BB) for $800
  • 8 19
flag TheRamma (Mar 21, 2023 at 8:33) (Below Threshold)
 they make a wireless XT group? nice!

really excited to try those XT brakes now that they've fixed wandering bite point.
  • 22 1
 @TheRamma: surprisingly, not everyone wants a wireless drivetrain.
  • 2 2
 @stevemokan: yeah, but it adds cost. whether or not that's worth it to you, it is pointless to compare the cost of wireless vs wired set ups, particularly to further silly Shimano>SRAM nonsense.
  • 2 5
 So... don't buy an electronic groupsets?
  • 1 2
 @TheRamma: they haven’t fixed the random bite point issue. Still got to do regular lever top ups to prevent it.
  • 3 2
 @thenotoriousmic: I know, was being sarcastic. XTs are actually something I would avoid, seem to be the worst Shimano brakes for that.
  • 14 3
 A transmission is housed in a casing. SRAM marketing continues to fail year after year.
  • 1 1
 Transmission can be wireless too. Hence radio transmitters.
  • 8 0
 It’d be nice if it adjusted itself. I feel like this isn’t too wild of a request. It could run through a setup program and time how long it takes to jump from one gear to the next, and adjust pull as necessary.
  • 1 0
 How would it do that while stationary? Or would you expect it to do that during the first few chain revolutions?
  • 4 0
 I run AXS setups and I had that EXACT thought yesterday on the trail. Or let us setup indexing per gear..
  • 1 0
 @mca896: Good point, if in the stand you'd need to turn the cranks. Maybe you could also have a small magnet on the guide pulley and sensor on the cage to help the algorithm know what to expect.
  • 1 0
 Yeah. It should just auto adjust constantly as the bike is ridden. Maybe next version will incorporate this.
  • 2 3
 @half-man-half-scab, I don't know if I understand your request. What would need to be adjusted? Unless something was bent in a crash the shifting should remain the same every time.
  • 1 0
 @mca896: just chuck it in a bike stand or turn it upside down and turn the cranks by hand would be my guess
  • 2 1
 @mikekazimer: I don't have experience with electric derailleurs, but on analog systems the force required to shift changes with neglect and conditions. Minute differences in how the hub is aligned when the wheel is installed can also impact shifting imo. Old derailleurs develop slop after years of service. Some of these definitely fall under the category of user error, but it would be nice if the software could mitigate these things.
  • 4 1
 @half-man-half-scab, I think you'd find that with this new system it requires minimal adjustment once it's up and running. And if it does need a slight tweak, there's essentially an electronic barrel adjuster on the shifter - pushing the AXS button and then one of the paddles allows the derailleur to be moved slightly in the correct direction.
  • 10 1
 A $1600 not-even-top-tier group set, just in time for the global bank failures and upcoming recession... Perfect timing!
  • 6 0
 Sram: After nearly 6 years of work, our engineering team has re-invented the wheel, so to speak, and released a new drivetrain. It features the smoothest shifting ever made, most durability offered by us to date, able to shift under load (even on e-bikes), and the new ability to rebuild the derailleur.

PB editorial: this is literally a game changer.

PB comments: no likey (I cant afford it)
  • 13 5
 Yeah, we all got $1700 to burn on a transmission that cost more than a rebuild for my truck, GTFO
  • 1 16
flag JSTootell (Mar 21, 2023 at 10:34) (Below Threshold)
 I just picked up my shock and fork from a full service and repair. $1000 for that one.

I'm willing to spend a few dollars on my hobby. My other bikes has $1200 XX1 AXS.
  • 16 3
 @JSTootell: Well woopdeef'ingdoo
  • 1 1
 @OldFatBassTerd: I hurt some feelings on that one :lol
  • 1 0
 @JSTootell: nah, you just made a really weak argument then patted yourself on the back.

-$10k bike owner who downvoted you for sounding smug and having 5th grade level verbal jiu jitsu.
  • 10 2
 Will this fit on my new Zerode G3?

Also, I do not believe SRAM knows what a transmission is.
  • 5 0
 I love the fact they have redistributed the cassette teeth especially on the big end. Unfortunately, personally, that's where it ends. It's all very nice, but I don't think this is a good direction for the industry, and yes, the price is a factor of that. How can consumables like the cassette and chain cost so much money. It's just unfeasible.
  • 3 0
 The Eagle cassettes seem to have a very long life in my experience. I would give Garbaruk some time to see if they can come up with a compatible version...or maybe SRAM patented the cassette design?
  • 1 0
 @Snowytrail: garbaruk cassettes work perfectly with shimano and sram drivetrains. Ive got them on 3 bikes with xt,xtr and xo.
  • 6 0
 Forced to run a Sram cassette, instead of a lighter and cheaper garbaruk cassette or just a cheaper XT cassette, yeah no thanks not when I go through 1-2 cassettes a year + 5-8chains (depending on the year)
  • 3 0
 I'd be willing to bet Garbaruk can figure out out to machine another cassette to work. I'm using on on my Microspline hub with SRAM drivetrain.
  • 1 0
 @JSTootell: oh yeah they probably will be able to, it will just take some time. I hope that they would make one that also fits the MS freehub, since that's also what I run, but I do have my doubts.
  • 5 0
 Bearing in mind that the chain and cassette is only compatible with this groupset. The cheapest chain and cassette pairing is £535. The most expensive is £805. That’s for consumable parts. I’m sure it shifts great, but I can get complete Shimano 12 speed groupset for that, including brakes.
  • 7 0
 Standing on it near the pivot is one thing, but I want to see someone standing on the p-knuckle, or dropping a good sized rock on the cage.
  • 6 1
 No limit screws... So what happens when something pushes on it while you're pedaling in the big cog? Since AXS has the "revolutionary" ability to let the parallelogram move inboard upon an impact, what's keeping the cage out of the spokes in that case? Unless they're relying on the frames to have the hanger mount specced to within 1mm-ish (doesn't take much overshoot to drop a chain into the spokes), and letting the mechanical limits of the 'gram to act as a low-limit. But, since this is same industry that has almost killed press-fit bottom brackets with via terrible tolerances, that's kind of a big ask...
  • 5 0
 We’ve been running Transmission at MBP for the past several months. We’ve collectively logged hundreds of hours of riding in all conditions with lots of heavy derailleur strikes, and it hasn’t missed a beat. We even ran it for our 24hr of gravity charity event, and rode 24hr of descending on a single battery charge!
  • 17 11
 So heavier, uglier, more expensive than before? Noice!
That crank looks really ugly, it must’ve been designed in the darkness
  • 17 12
 direct mount derailleur? wow now we can snap our frames instead of just the hanger, brilliant makes people spend more money, just what the industry needs!

meanwhile shimano releases something actually useful
  • 5 1
 Shimano might really have something actually useful underway. A couple of months ago they filed a patent for a new derailleur with a forward-facing cage, which would massively increase ground clearance over "traditional" derailleurs.

Conversely to the new SRAM stuff, I could see how THAT would be a useful improvement.
  • 2 2
 I was just talking to Dangerholm on his Instagram post about it. He said that the derailleur is mounted around the frame and contacts the axle in such a way that if the derailleur takes an impact, the force is directed through the axle, not the frame. This system is so expensive though. Unless you're a pro racer or someone with a lot of extra cash, it's probably not for you.
  • 5 1
 I get the shorter cranks are better for DH theory, but there are tall riders out there that choose longer >170 cranks for ergonomic pedaling reasons. I feel like they have over optimized in one dimension at the sacrafice of another.
  • 1 1
 I could be wrong but I think there is a lot of stuff out there that say there is no downside (or very little) to shorter cranks. I think it was Hope who was going to all smaller cranks, like 155mm and said that was the sweet spot.
  • 3 1
 @OCSunDevil: biggest downside is that you have to raise your seatpost to compensate.
  • 3 1
 My knees prefer over 170mm cranks. I don't care what studies say when my knees are sore when I'm done.
  • 1 0
 @OCSunDevil:

Hope's "study" suggests gravity oriented benifits during descending and sort bursts of pedaling, which makes sense. But sweet spot is just another way of saying one size fits all, which seems foolish to say for any component that impacts bike fitment (and consequently sustained pedaling ergonomics)

m.pinkbike.com/news/hope-say-their-super-short-155-mm-cranks-are-the-sweet-spot.html
  • 5 0
 @OCSunDevil: There appears to be some good logic for shorter cranks, but after trying them for a few rides I just cant... it feels like riding a monkey bike. So i'm told its a good thing but it just feels awful to me.
  • 3 0
 @OCSunDevil:

I know what the science says about shorter cranks, but every time I have tried them I feel less balance from the shorter distance while coasting dh, with the pedals at 3 and 9.

172-175 are my preferences, 5’10/11, 32” inseam…
  • 2 1
 Now you know how us short kings feel with 29" wheels
  • 2 0
 @yoimaninja: Can't believe you got a downvote on this... That's some short king hate speech.
  • 5 1
 $600 derailleur? Some say that it's worth it if you think of the long term. However. Do you know how long it takes me to go through 6 derailleurs? I'll stick with my 11 speed GX, than you. Works great, affordable, very available and nowhere near as touchy as 12 speed. If anything, I will upgrade to 9 speed box because of how robust it is. Honestly, I ride for fun and don't need a drivetrain worth more than my frame.
  • 4 0
 I don't run sram but applaud them for actually updating that AXS remote to be a simple 2 button versus that paddle design. The current paddle design never really made much sense to me. Not that it doesn't work, but I kept thinking....why don't they make two separate buttons that are clearly not connected to each other. They did it!
  • 5 1
 I want to shit all over this because I am a cable-transmission hold over, but I honestly think this may be a good thing. I wish it wasn't $1500, but my drivetrain will keep going until it gets cheaper.

Does anyone know if the road/gravel flattop 12-speed chains will be compatible with the mtn bike 12-speed flattop? Because there is already a $30 flattop chain (rival), which is nice.
  • 1 0
 Wait until it gets cheaper? How are you going to install a UDH? You'll need a new frame too.
  • 1 0
 According to SRAM, T-Type chainrings are backwards compatible with Eagle drivetrain chains, but Eagle drivetrain chainrings are not compatible with T-Type Transmission chains and cassettes.
Source: bikeradar
  • 5 1
 one mistake..... "......but Shimano doesn't currently have a 12-speed electronic drivetrain for bikes without motors."

um Di2? ;-) sure its for road bikes, but they definitely have a 12 speed electronic drivetrain for bikes without motors.
  • 3 4
 *for mountain bikes without motors
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: you're a good man!
  • 5 0
 So at last SRAM admit that that their old derailleurs would twist/damage derailleur hangers. Hence why in my part of the world, you either kept plenty of spare hangers or went to Shimano.
  • 7 3
 Soooooo we make comparisons between the X01 groupset and XTR when there are two higher tiers available? Have they released pricing on the XX and XX SL groupsets yet? Will probably be eye watering...
  • 1 1
 The other post has info on pricing. It's around $1,500 +/- for the groupset.
  • 2 0
 Just dropped on Jenson. The XX SL is $2100 for the groupset
  • 13 7
 I really, really don't want electric shifting on my non-electric mountain bike.
  • 14 6
 Cool. Mechanical groupsets are still available bro. Problem solved.
  • 3 1
 @hungrymonkey: For this new mount standard?
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: I mean you can already use a UDH with this standard so...
  • 4 3
 @hungrymonkey: Hey everyone! look at this guy. He solved the problem. Anyone who wants high quality shifting can still buy mechanical group sets that he says are still available. I'm sure they'll continue to be available and SRAM won't shift its focus onto electronic while phasing out the mechanical groups. (you know, like how everyone is doing these days)
  • 2 1
 @Spencermon: Good thing they will keep offering mechanical, since SRAM does most their business OEM and locks manufacturers in to their ecosystem. Whew! They deff won't leverage this to sell electronic shifting on most new bikes.
  • 5 0
 @hamncheez: I can't imagine they would. I'm so glad that there are high end mechanical road group sets available from SRAM and Shimano . . . wait, I'm just getting word that they phased out all high quality mechanical road group sets. Oh the Humanity!!
  • 3 0
 @Spencermon: Its a good thing that mountain bikes don't have a long, long history of using everything that trickles down from road cycling, like crappy geometry, narrow rims, headset cable routing, integrated everything, unnecessary carbon parts, under-built components to hit unrealistic weight targets...
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: surely this can't get worse - oh no! it got worse.
  • 1 0
 @Spencermon: not just the high end it was cheaper for me to buy rival axs then apex a few months ago. So it exists but particularly if you want hydraulic dropbar levers axs is cheaper. The reality is its much cheaper to produce an electronic shifter unit then a mechanical one.
  • 2 0
 @briain: It's such a pain. I would rather my $$ go towards higher quality parts such a mechanical Force drivetrain than a lower quality (materials, tolerances, durability) Rival AXS drivetrain. I don't want to spend money on electronics.
  • 1 0
 @Spencermon: each to their own, but no mechanical 12 speed for road groups so I didn't have too many options. I do love srams double tap but pretty happy with rival axs
  • 1 0
 @briain: I know there are no mechanical 12 speed road groups. That's why this whole new product launch sucks. It happened to road and it's gonna happen to mountain. If there were a mechanical 12 speed road, I'd expect the pricing to be similar to MTB. Mechanical X01 cost = Electronic GX cost. Mechanical Force cost = Electronic Rival cost. I'd put my money on mechanical every time. But on road that's no longer an option. Pretty soon that will be the case with MTB.
I would also be happy with Rival AXS but I wish there were a mechanical Rival 12 speed. MY road bike is mechanical 105 11 speed. I can't really afford to spend on Rival AXS. Having ridden Apex, I'm not impressed.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: really hype about the new standard are ya??
  • 2 0
 @Spencermon: I do agree that the hard push towards electronic groups is crap. But my experience so far of axs has been pretty good, although I am using a GX derailleur instead of a rival one
  • 2 0
 @briain: yeah, don't get me wrong here. The electronic groups work great. Theres not much wrong with them functionally. The shift they have caused in the marketplace towards more expensive bikes with lower quality (materials) components is sucky.
  • 5 1
 Man really disappointed. I thought after axs, they would work something out to make it affordable, yet they just make a new system that makes the new thing even more expensive.
  • 3 0
 Can someone clarify what 'shifting under load' is? Shifting happens under the cassette, and load is applied to the top.
I get it with front derailleurs, but I can't see how a rear derailleur ever has to shift under load. By all means, let the flaming commence...
  • 3 1
 Shifting when you're pedaling hard, like on a steep climb, or when sprinting out of the saddle are what constitute 'shifting under load' in my book - the system is being stressed by the weight of the rider in those instances, and in the past it was best to avoid shifting in those situations.
  • 2 0
 Basically how much power you can put through the cranks while the chain is between sprockets mid shift without slippage or grindy noises being made.
  • 1 1
 @thenotoriousmic: ok, I understand this. The fleeting moment inbetween shifts. I thought the whole beauty of the derailleur being on the non-load side of the drivetrain was that shifts could be accomplished without any stressing of the chain.
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: hasn’t Shimano always done this? My dura ace certainly does not care if I’m in ful sprint or bumbling along
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: not until hyper glide 2 which is just a fancy way of saying the cassette now has shift ramps going up and down the cassette instead of just up like like hg1. Just means you can put more power through the cranks without kneeling your stem when something slips.
  • 3 0
 Ever Since Outside aquired Pinkbike my trailforks subscription has been effed and at this point they are basically stealing from me. I begged them to cancel my sub and not charge my card but they do it anyway. Even though I dont even have use of the app becsuse even though I pay my sub is domehow expired. They won’t do anything about it. I just felt like putting that here.
  • 8 4
 At first I was like "that's just... a derailleur" and it is, but it is a very hassle-free derailleur! The actual benefit to the rider is clear here which is great.
  • 6 0
 Agreed, now hopefully a GX version for us pleebs can come out
  • 2 0
 @mtmc99: I'd guess next year most likely.
  • 7 0
 at $1600 the benefit seems greater to sram than the rider
  • 1 0
 @ridedigrepeat: it'll be a week before shimano launches 12 speed di2. Sram have done it every time shimano launches something new they drop the new lower tier group
  • 6 0
 Good read Mike. I got a good feel for what the new system is and entails.
  • 8 2
 That’s a derailleur, not a transmission.
  • 5 0
 Sweet now I just need to buy a new frame to replace my non-UDH 1 year old bike.
  • 4 0
 Gearbox or bust at this point.

Considering how weight conscious the bike industry is, why are we still dangling the transmission off the rear wheel?
  • 5 1
 How does the XX SL groupset weight compare to XTR?

Us XC weenies need to know. @mikekazimer @henryquinney

Also... will there be an AXS Dropper SL anytime soon ???
  • 7 1
 I think stool softener is like 12 dollars at walmart for some real weight savings
  • 1 0
 @mariomtblt: metamucil every day broski.
  • 1 0
 @bentopi: sheesh alright my bad G
  • 2 0
 This new technology is brilliant and SRAM is the trailblazer in electronic shifting. Innovation has made mountain biking a better experience for most. ...But unless I strike it rich, I'll be sticking with MicroSHIFT Advent X and 11-speed Shimano for my shifting duties. Both work great and treat my wallet kindly.
  • 2 0
 So the new direct-mount derailleur = strong. Okay, I get the marketing.

But shifting...we need a review that uses the new cassette/chain and the old AXS derailleurs to compare. How much of this shifting performance is coming from the all-new chain, and new narrow-wide cassette teeth? And how much is coming from the stiffer direct-mount derailleur?

If it's anything like the Hyperglide+ system, I bet you a large majority of the shifting performance improvement is coming from the cassette/chain. NOT the derailleur.
  • 2 0
 What's the system weight difference between Mid-cage 10-45 XTR set up and this new SRAM stuff? Weird to only compare to XT

And, not all weight is the same. Jamming all the weight into the derailleur then quoting 'system weight' misses the point that electronic shifting all ends up as additional sprung mass hanging off the back of the bike. It'll impact suspension performance.
  • 2 0
 I am curious if they have increased longevity of the clutch, springs, and general tension as it wears in and ages. I have worn through several derailleurs over the years, and don't want to have to deal with that on a derailleur that's so expensive. I have worn though 4 Sram and 2 Shimano in the last few years. So just b/c you can stand on it, doesn't mean it has longevity.
  • 1 0
 Yes this is happens to me. They always wear out before i break them. I bet this will still wear out just as quick. I wear them out in around 6000k which is a year for me.

I've sent them back to sram multiple times trying to get them to fix it (which i would happily pay for )so i don't just throw it in the bin but the clutch has never come back good again so i just chuck it in the bin.
  • 3 0
 Regardless of the device.
Anyone else sicknof global release dates where your entire feed is chock full of the same shot from 25 differemt outlets with the same article they've sat on for 10 weeks?
  • 2 0
 Still very expensive when Shimano deore with xt shifter works amazing for fraction of the price. If you want top line bike when money no object sure it's amazing but better value spending that money on suspension or better brakes
  • 1 0
 I ripped my derailleur off doing the Hallock hack on a shimano derailleur where the derailleur would just have moved backwards on the B knuckle when impacted. Totally destroyed the derailleur instead of moving it. Just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it won't.
  • 6 0
 I stand corrected after reading the development article. The derailleur does move backwards on axle from forward impact.
  • 1 0
 @Jcolis1904: Yes it does. It will swing backwards. I've done it myself.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer @henryquinney Henry mentioned something about "death of superboost". If this superboost compatible or not? Did I miss something? Thanks!
  • 11 0
 Yes, it's Superboost compatible. Henry was referring to the fact that this drivetrain uses a 55mm chainline, which was accomplished by moving the cassette outboard by 2.5mm. In other words, you can now get the same chainline as Superboost with a 148mm hub instead of a 157mm hub.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: ah ok, thanks Mike! Thought I might have to cancel picking up the box they set aside for me
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: so what your're saying is that the industry is slowly moving towards superboost without making it too obvious Wink . First the chainline, then the hubs
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: So you use the standard 3 mm offset chainrings for boost 55mm chain line and the 0 mm chainrings for superboost 58 mm chain line ?
  • 1 0
 @ArchiRide: I asked Pivot and they said after working with SRAM they are just running the standard 55mm chainline and that there are no issues.
  • 1 0
 @ArchiRide: THIS is actually a really interesting comment. SRAM is saying that a 55mm chainline works with transmission and super boost 157.
Boost chainline is 52mm, with the cassette moving outwards by 2.5mm this results in a 54.5mm chainline(55mm is what sram is saying is optimal)
Super boost chainline is 55-56.5mm, with the cassette moving outwards by 2.5mm this results in a 57.5-59mm chainline.
SO if super boost w/ transmission works with 55mm chainline(57.5-2.5=55), then that means regular boost w/ transmission should work with a 52.5mm chainline(55-2.5=52.5)...

This is nitpicking half millimeters but what I'm getting at is it seems like 52mm chainline bikes with UDH should work just fine with transmission. No need to get new cranks.
  • 6 1
 *looks at pricetag
*buys Moto
  • 1 0
 Is there anything stopping current AXS users with UDH from just upgrading the mech and getting it to work with their old stuff?

If the jockey wheels are flat top only I assume they could be swapped. I ask as the main benefits seem to be from the UDH mount which might increase strength, shifting precision + decrease chain slap.. the flat top chain + cassette + shifters seem to be a small benefit to overall performance.
  • 2 0
 Check the other article, but they changed the chain line and removed the limit screws, so you'd at least need a new cassette, and probably a chainring.
  • 4 0
 Is it compatible with anything other than a system cassette, or is $400 the cheapest cassette for the system?
  • 2 1
 I'm not saying the price is justified, but it's also not a surprise (surely??) Cable actuated xx1 eagle was £1200 RRP when it came out in 2016. 106 di2 (third tier groupset) is £1700 RRP (although admittedly cheaper online). It's expensive, but it's consistent with the rest of the market.
  • 2 0
 105 is a 2x and road drivetrains include brakes
  • 1 0
 I mean it looks fancy and it sounds like it shifts great and the fact that it can take hits is neat, but I'll spend my hard earned money on some nice EXT or Ohlins suspension instead since that will actually make me ride faster. This wouldn't actually reduce my climb times or my effort, it just has more features. If you have the money and want batteries on your bike though, it does seem pretty cool.
  • 1 0
 The last time I actually broke a derailleur was when SRAM came out with the carbon fiber Gripshift knuckle in the 90's. Shop kept telling me that I was hard on parts until I broke 5 of them and then they admitted there was a problem. Of course SRAM did nothing for me. I'm sure the tighter tolerances allow for a better shift but I'm pretty happy with my XTR as it is....always room for improvement though!
  • 1 0
 "until I hopped back onto a bike with a 'regular' cable-actuated SRAM X01 rear derailleur."

Except it's not the cable actuation that's making a difference, it's the cassette and chain. Proven by the later comparison to Eagle AXS.
  • 3 0
 Sorry for being vain but $1600 and no gold or oil slick bling?
C”mom SRAM! If I want the Shimano look, l’ll get myself some Shimano.
  • 1 0
 so i know now that my bike is old, bought it in january. no udh. the old system of sram wont be developed further i guess. so looks like i'll slowly convert to shimano. the development goes in a far more healthy direction. great review, i really think the system works perfect, but absolutely the wrong direction for me. more expensive, more proprietary and electronic.
  • 1 0
 Thanks for not going 13 speed. That might be nice for old roadies, but if you can’t get around with 500% range you need more time on the bike not more gears. As pretty and well thought out as it is it’s still not what I want. I have been asking for a wide range 6- 8 speed trail drivetrain for years. Trail riders are your largest group of high end component buyers. I don’t need or want tighter gear spacing! We are not roadies! I double shift more than I single shift. 6-8 speeds should mean the cassette could be narrower. A narrower cassette would mean the derailleur wouldn’t need to stick out as much or move as far side to side. Much straighter chain line as well. Less need for double shifting. I really believe less could be more. I’m not ready to give up my cables either. I don’t care if they are run on the outside or the inside of the frame just not through the headset, bars or stem. Oh if I’m gonna be stuck with 12 speeds can I at least get a XO1 or XX1 kit with a cable? I don’t want to deal with batteries. I’m a slackass and always forget to charge them.
  • 1 0
 Is this shrinkflation? Looks like the XO is the former GX with solid pin chain and alu cranks... Except for the price...

Would love to see a mechanical version. Just for the lever feel of it
Thanks for the review Henry, lovely
  • 1 0
 Just too expensive. Ran through 3 derailleurs last summer and it was 60€ a pop, first one warranty. And 3 hangers. So in total about 250€. I won't be buying expensive drive systems. Otherwise yeah I would want it. Wireless makes things so much easier.
  • 1 0
 Limited experience on e-shifters won't stop me sharing my opinion! I love cable-actuated ergonomics and would love to see an electronic option that mimics that feel. The derailleur might only need a simple button press, but my thumbs need more.
  • 1 0
 So this works better. That’s great, but can the cost of this tech be scaled down? Shimano’s innovations have almost all tricked down to much lower price points-so you can have really good drivetrain performance even on Deore stuff.

If this kind of r&d cost can’t scale to more attainable price points, it won’t benefit the vast majority of riders. That kind of engineering allocation can either grow a sport or kill it.

Hopefully SRAM stuff down to NX level (which at this point is hot garbage) will benefit, even if it’s not electronic.
  • 1 0
 While this is very nice gear and impressive engineering, this pushes me closer to my next bike being a Zerode or other gearbox contender. None of my bikes have UDH, and if I'm going to invest in a new bike with new drivetrain technology, I'd rather get a real transmission. Looking at SRAMs retail pricing it might even be a better deal. Maybe Pinion should do a video with a couple of engineers standing on a gearbox.
  • 1 0
 Another great video by @henryquinney and the video team. I really like your obscure (at least to me) references and how you deliver them with a straight face. Not quite as funny as your piece on bike weight but I guess this one was less of an editorial than the bike weight video. Love the walking/biking and talking format as well as the detailed slow mo video of the drivetrain. Great stuff.
  • 1 0
 I don't get it... everyone's talking about ecology and saving the planet yet we are pushing batteries into things that completely do not need them and even, in case of derailleurs, IMO batteries make them worse. Way to go, world.
  • 1 0
 The UDH thing is such BS. Why not standardize a system that doesn't cost us all loads of cash on a new groupset and frame, the only thing SRAM has done is create another standard that puts us out of pocket and potentially devalues the second hand value of our frames. I have a cheap GX rear mech, works fine. I have a spare gear hanger that cost a couple of bucks in my box. If the two get damaged it's a peace of cake to fix.
  • 1 0
 SRAM knocked it out of the park with this set up, seeing the guys stand on the derailleur means side impacts aren’t going to bend it but frontal impacts are still going to catch the derailleur and wear it down causing miss shifting or possible failure. The perfect compliment to this set up is the Derailleur Guard by GEO, it’ll eliminate the frontal impacts and make the SRAM derailleur pretty much INDESTRUCTIBLE!
Check out the Derailleur Guard by GEO @www.geohandguards.com
It’s a HELMET for your DERAILLEUR!
  • 1 0
 I have a pretty fresh bike with no UDH, so mostly passing curiosity here. My main question is: is the word “Transmission”now trademarked or copywrite or something like that? Or will I have to buy a new Transmission TM SRAM for my Tundra if I keep doing neutral drops?
  • 1 0
 So, we're trading improved shift performance for a [very durable] derailleur that could, in a worst case scenario, mangle the rear triangle in a bad crash? It appears that the derailleur is very, very sturdy - and often a bad crash would cause a bend in the UDH anyway - while this thing looks like it would stay true. I guess the only downside is that the derailleur design is ideally mated to a cassette of a particular size?
  • 1 0
 Have the new SRAM Eagle Transmission stuck in your mind? Wondering what bikes are compatible? What is UDH anyways, and does my bike have it? Don't get your wires crossed (pun intended) wading through questionable info on the web, chat with one of the expert's at BikeCo and watch this quick video on what UDH is!
@thebikecompany #thebestinmtb #eagletransmission #thedreamdelivered #sram #axs #srammtb https://tinyurl.com/3s65m5jm 
  • 4 1
 Electric Eagle and Electric eeWings on the same DAY?!?!? My wallet is pissed....
  • 4 0
 I'm sure it's a nice looking drivetrain when it's clean
  • 1 0
 Having ridden it personally how did you feel about the automatic shimming jumps that slowed down the rate of change between gears. When I rode it I felt like it was too slow but what did you think?
  • 3 0
 Looks fantastic, the better clutch, no limit screws or adjustments, and performance under load sounds great.
  • 3 0
 Still no compact 10-44 or 45 cassette? Come on sram, not all of us need the dinner plate cassette.
  • 8 3
 #underwhelmed
  • 6 1
 I have to agree. I've been buying this stuff for 30+ years, always wanted and could afford the best drivetrain. It was always a priority to me to have the best drivetrain. Why? I have no idea. But I actually quit upgrading with the last AXS. I went from 9 speed XTR direct to XX1 sram 11-speed. A few years ago I couldn't wait to get the AXS XX1, installed it, rode it a few times, and sold it off and put my 11 speed back on. With the correct front chainring, I didn't really gain enough to warrant the cost and battery workflow. So I actually had high hopes when I saw this new AXS coming. But with no UDH, and no desire to pay $4K to replace my frame, I will have to skip this one too. And did I read that right? Slower shifts and less battery? And EIGHT bolts to replace a chainring? And wider chainline? And heavier? I don't know, usually the 2nd gen improves on most of the things people note as needing improvement. This time I don't see that at all, still 12 gears, same everything, just different. No B screw and trims are nice I guess, but it sounds like you still have to tweak a few things. But overall, underwhelmed is about right. Kind of makes me want to hunker down with my 11 speed even longer and longer LOL... but I must admit, if Shimano comes out with a new XTR that will fit my non UDH frame, I'll give that a try.
  • 5 1
 @shorttravelmag: i was hoping for a cable version. i suspect eagle will stick around a while.

recharging every 2-3 rides sucks. we all have friends on axs that end up with a spare batt in their pocket because theyve been bit by it before, or they basically charge daily to be sure. all that for little real world difference other than easy of install.

the only improvements i see:

- no hanger
- flat top chain
- cool jocket wheel

worth the price and having to deal with batteries? in my eyes absolutely not ... heck if at least it had di2 battery life. but tbh 1x is so reliable i dont really get the point of batteries.
  • 1 0
 @p1nkbike: and just read the Q factor is up to 174mm. My Sram xx1 cranks are 168. So another 6mm wider pedals. Not thrilled about that.
  • 2 0
 So does this mean that AXS is being binned so that we'll all have to by a complete drivetrain next time we break an AXS component instead of just picking up a spare?
  • 2 1
 No, parts will still be available for AXS (and non-AXS) drivetrains.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Good to know. Thanks.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: yet they wont be developed further. its either adapt or die. in this case buy a udh frame and a groupset for more the 1500€. no more 100€ derailleur that is better than the old one. the new tec means new everything. great review. If it werent for al these negative i'd consider buying one
  • 5 1
 An Architects Take: "Why is it so ugly tho"
  • 4 1
 I'll note that this makes 13 speed possible now that the derailleur is no longer hanging by an aluminum flexi-noodle.
  • 1 0
 Rotor has a 13 speed already.
  • 1 0
 @Jcolis1904: And Campag.
  • 3 0
 New specialized epic at 4:42 of this video: youtu.be/D6fZrK5JjDY?t=282
  • 1 0
 wow, im happy it doesnt use the stupid ligament that their gravel bike uses
  • 1 0
 Interesting. I wonder if they were meant to reveal a fancy new bike design before Specialized announced it. Looks like more internal room in front triangle. Good for water bottles and frame bags.
  • 1 0
 Seems like there have been other sightings...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNuQgHPWA0

en.brujulabike.com/specialized-epic-2024-new-features-prices-models

Cabling through headset is not a good move.
  • 1 0
 Too expensive for me but I welcome the repairable mech. Having just had to discard an XTR rear mech because of a wear and tear issue that wasnt repairable, the industry needs to focus more on making things repairable.
  • 4 0
 Flat-bottomed chains you make the rockin world go round!
  • 2 0
 Can someone shove a stick in between the rear wheel and chain? what happens then, because that seems to be my preferred derailleur detonation technique.
  • 1 0
 Any news from a cassette with the same teeth distribution? I don't want to expend that amount, and maybe have issues getting chains, but i'll love that new distribution on my current SRAM 12x drivetrain.
  • 3 0
 Basically, If you do not know how to drive a stick, get an automatic. All that bs about a shifting under load.... love it Smile
  • 1 0
 best B-Roll of the year. Love the close-ups but really love the static chain ring and the moving 360 degree bike. Sweet job. Keep doing great story telling, Knuckles to the photog an editor. well done piece
  • 1 0
 Hmm, no mechanical option. Plus, new standards and little backwards compatibility. Not interested personally, and hopefully there are enough others of like mind to keep the mechanical drivetrains relevant.
  • 1 0
 The next version is
I hope product supports 9-12 gears.

It'll be possible with a simple software update.
(They'll also sell the cage and pulley separately)

Then I'm willing to use it !!
  • 2 0
 If anyone's interested, I saw this article from 2013, and thought the perspective was interesting:
www.pinkbike.com/news/26-vs-275-vs-29-wheels.html
  • 1 0
 yeah, it would b better to have each wheelsize bike have had the updated geometry of today...i have held onto my 26 gear in the hopes that will happen...the 26 bikes of 2013 just needed an elongated front center
  • 3 1
 Here are some good thoughts about this from a mechanical engineer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxgxHiijF0&ab_channel=PeakTorque
  • 2 0
 Thanx for sharing!
  • 1 0
 So, maybe we’ll see Pinion release a universal bottom bracket that all the manufacturers build their frames around, then a year or so later surprise us with a gearbox that just happens to fit into the same space. lol
  • 1 1
 Talk about confusing the issues and ignoring the elephants in the room. The "novelty" in the "Trasmission" group is the shifting system, derailleur and its ancillaries, the mount and shifter. Not the cranks, not the ring, not the chain. So what do $1600 buys you? The heaviest shifting system you can buy, 470 grams for the derailleur + 40+40 for the remote + 30 per the battery.

The advantage? Very unclear. One can forget the claim that this shifts better than yesterday's SRAM (or Shimano), it is just fluff, not to mention that Bike Rumor says that Transmission shifts SLOWER than Eagle AXS. What else? Strength? That again has nothing to do with the shifting system?

So ... go ahead? spend $1600 for nothing?
  • 1 0
 Hell, even my old 11 speed stuff shifts just great. I mean, I give it a click and it's in the next gear. We're past the point where a faster/smoother shift matters, aren't we?

-Walt
  • 1 0
 I hade to make an account here just to comment the annoying fact that the correct name of the new groupset is X0 ( X + Zero) and not XO (X + letter O) as written in the article
  • 2 0
 They really worked a lot to find the name of their new range of transmission : transmission
  • 3 0
 Does this mean I can throw away my der hanger straightener?
  • 6 0
 If you have this drivetrain, yes.
  • 4 1
 If they only put the same amount of effort into making a gearbox.....
  • 6 5
 SRAM taking notes from Apple and dropping articles. You’re really just going to call it “Transmission” ??? That won’t confuse a single person.
  • 15 6
 And you're taking notes from TeamRobot. I'm fine with calling it Transmission.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: transmission, for me, is a torrent client on mac Smile
  • 3 1
 Yeah I'm sure we'll get used to it but initially it's a bit of an odd naming convention, especially since "transmission" kinda implies a gearbox drivetrain, which is is not.
  • 1 0
 @robcleary: @robcleary: umm....radio transmission.
  • 1 0
 Makes sense why most of the new bike frames are UDH now. Gut feeling is the same as headset cable routing… why are you making things harder.
  • 3 0
 cool, but I want my bikes wireless-less
  • 2 2
 UDH, can we get more video of this, how does it sit in a frame, what frames work, how compatible is this, do we need a new bike, how does it sit with the axle, we need more details please?
  • 2 0
 All this development and they couldn't put it in a box inside the main triangle.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer So if you are coming from a GX AXS system, I can use my existing batteries, charger and shifter ? Am I able to get only what i need individually ?
  • 3 0
 Yes, the batteries, charger, and shifter are all compatible. You would need to buy the cranks, chain, and cassette to make the upgrade.
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer: sheesh, screw that
  • 1 0
 Tring to understand if this Derailleur is compatible with Sram road shifter for gravel wide range use. I think it is but cant find any info to verify.
  • 2 0
 I remember when Shimano used to mount derailleurs on axles 2007 - Orginal Shimano Saint and Hone
  • 2 0
 I like it, but I don't have any UDH frames and don't plan to buy a frame for as long as I possibly can.
  • 1 2
 "If you choose to run half of the bashguard, just make sure it's on the bottom of the ring when the cranks are in your preferred pedaling position"

If you "choose" to do this and you don't "make sure", you are an idiot and deserve to f*ck your shit up.
  • 3 0
 So is there going to be a mechanical version of this??
  • 1 0
 SRAM: "First choice: cable loops or rub spots on your bars? Second choice: spend your money on the ugliest "shifter" ever, or stock in a battery company?"
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer hey Kaz - is it possible to run eeWings as long as you have a flat top compatible chainring?
  • 1 0
 Interesting how many carbon frames will be destroyed by indestructible 'transmission'?
other then that looks dope, waiting for GX version
  • 2 0
 Calling it a “transmission” doesn’t make it any closer to being a gearbox.
  • 2 0
 There is also the question of why change , because SRAM says so , oddly this sometimes bites people in the ass
  • 2 0
 Hey Henry, what riding pants are you wearing? More interested in those than the derailleur. Thanks.
  • 4 0
 I'll answer my own question, I guess. After looking at the video more closely I'm guessing these are the Dainese HGR Pants...
  • 3 0
 But does it work with Gripshift? Seriously, I still use it.
  • 1 0
 No mention of not being able to use a top chainring guide with the bash guards? Also no direct comparison to under load shifting with Link-glide?
  • 3 1
 Sram is becoming the over hype blue bubble, ecosystem tauting, proprietary, profit margin hungry corp of mtb
  • 1 0
 If the battery runs out what is the default gear you are stuck in for the rest of the ride? I forget to charge stuff all the time.
  • 1 0
 Whatever gear it died in, it doesn't revert to a programmed gear, I found out the hard way, died on the downhill and I had to ride out about 6 miles of trail in the 10T cog. I actually bought a couple extra batteries and now keep an extra charged battery in my pack.
  • 1 0
 Adding such a heavy (double weight of some old 11 gear) derailleur to your unsprung mass will definitely worsening suspension performance. That's physics.
  • 2 1
 So instead of bending a mech hanger I will brake my frame?
And those prices.....some people must love wasting money on such small "gains"
  • 1 0
 Was going to buy a new bike this year, but looks like I'll have to wait two, so this shit can settle and I don't end up with a Shimano or SRAM only frame.
  • 1 0
 How will you end up with a Sram or Shimano only frame?

Just get a bike that supports UDH. Then you have the choice as normal.
  • 2 0
 I don't want anything on my bike that I have to charge a battery for. Ever. Cables never run out of charge.
  • 7 4
 Why direct mount
  • 4 7
 More rigid for better shifting. Also unifying on a standard makes it so you don't have to design for edge cases, sacrificing performance.
  • 2 0
 @NorCalNomad: making the RD mount concentric to the axle is honestly brilliant. How much talk have we had about correct B-gap setting over the last 10 years?? This system seems great. Hopefully someday it trickles down to a price point that doesn't make me want to barf.
  • 1 0
 @bkm303: Oh yeah it'll come down into other stuff.
  • 2 0
 @NorCalNomad: I'm legitimately curious what will trickle down / how far down. I'm sure the direct mount standard will but this really looks like they designed the group around electronic shifting from the ground up in several ways. Like right now they're using software to limit shift speed (I assume to prevent breaking chain & teeth). I'm wondering how stuff like that will translate to mechanical shifting... no mechanical multishift? No mechanical T-type hardware at all? Idk.
  • 13 12
 So instead of bending a derailleur hanger, you will completely mangle your chainstay? Am I missing something here?
  • 32 6
 Yes, you're missing something - the derailleur isn't just mounted to one side of the frame. It's supported by the thru-axle as well. I got on Henry's shoulders and we both stood on the derailleur, for science, and it didn't bend at all.
  • 7 1
 @mikekazimer: need photographic proof that this happened
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: did you really stand on it ?
  • 7 1
 @laupe, yep, multiple times. I'm working on digging up a photo. You can see Henry stand on it in the video too.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: good to know, thanks Mike!
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: damn, that’s tough
  • 24 0
 @mikekazimer Never been happier than when you held me - www.pinkbike.com/photo/24417603
  • 9 1
 @mikekazimer: fair play for abusing it but you’re not actually standing on the mech really are you. You’re basically standing on the axle.
  • 5 0
 But you´ll bent or in case of carbon break the frame over time. But that won´t be SRAMs problem Big Grin
  • 2 0
 @henryquinney: thanks for the science!
  • 6 2
 @mikekazimer: You're standing on the axle bud. You can do that with a udh too.
  • 6 1
 @Monkeyfcuker: true, still doesn't change the fact that if something does go wrong (in mountainbiking things go wrong all the time) the first thing to break would be the frame instead of a cheap hanger
  • 2 0
 It’s going to be one of those things that either takes off or in 5 years time will have people going to their local shop trying to find obscure compatible parts to put on that frame they don’t want to give up yet
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: exactly like a rock strike then
  • 12 1
 @Compositepro, the derailleur also has the overload clutch that was first used on the original AXS derailleurs- in the event of a hard hit it releases, allowing the derailleur to move out of the way of an impact.

Skepticism over this new system is totally understandable - I'm very curious to see how it fares once more people get on it in the real world. In my experience, and in talking to other test riders, it definitely works as intended.
  • 4 0
 @Monkeyfcuker: Exactly. Now jump on the lower jockey wheel.
  • 4 2
 @mikekazimer: now both stand on the derailleur cage. it'll still be trashed like every other rear derailleur, except now its a $600 replacement.
  • 3 1
 @scantregard, not exactly - there are multiple replacement parts available for the derailleur, which hopefully means you don’t have to spend the full price to fix it.
  • 3 0
 @scantregard: he says it moves out the way ?
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: I've just seen the UK price. 695pounds. this is waaaaaay beyond marginal gains.
  • 2 2
 You're not breaking the frame with a RD smack unless you also snap the axle. In which case you probably have a lot of other problems to deal with.
  • 7 7
 @mikekazimer: what's the point of going to the trouble of doing that informal test when it doesn't test anything?

People are talking about the leverage forces exerted on the frame/axel when the derrailleur cage gets snagged on something. Standing on the axel proves nothing except your lack of understanding of basic physics.

Go stand on the cage, both of you. i'm waiting...
  • 1 0
 @scantregard: its also heavier then currant eagle axs
  • 4 0
 @moroj82: Better yet, whack the thing with a hammer. I can't remember the last time I gently ran my derailleur into two men. Smacking it full force into a blunt rock on the other hand...
  • 12 5
 To everyone griping, you do realize I've been thrashing around on this drivetrain for the last 6 months? It hasn't had an easy life, and has withstood everything I've subjected it to. Can it be broken? Sure, everything can be broken. But I'm convinced there are merits to the new design, and so far it's proven its worth out on the trail.
  • 13 0
 @mikekazimer: after this "review" I still have no idea how the RD will handle car crashes, acetylene flames, immersion in acid baths, deep sea pressures, and all sorts of other common trail hazards. As a result I have no idea whether this derailleur can handle my extremely gnarly riding style. Missed opportunity if I'm being honest
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: I think we really need to know how it can stand up to sasquatch or the chupacabra.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: To everyone griping about griping, you do realize this is the Pinkbike comment section? We can't live without griping.
  • 3 0
 @Explodo: exactly, this derailleur could get you killed. Good luck when that sasquatch grabs your bike by the RD and there's no flimsy hanger there to snap off... RIP
  • 2 2
 @mikekazimer: Sure you've been able to spend 6 months giving it a hiding and come away happy with performance and durability. But lets imagine you're in a position where you have to pay retail for the groupset, you doing that?

FYI, instead of paying the Aussie retail price for the XO1 kit, I can get a GX mech kit which can also take a hiding, and I can also buy a return ticket from Aus to YVR for the same money.

If, on the off chance I did break something like a new XO1 derailleur, replacing one of those will cost 1kAUD at a minimum.
  • 2 0
 Actually really want to ride this
  • 1 0
 Sounds like they killed it. Can we talk about the shifter? More of a ‘analog’ feel finally?
  • 5 2
 So XO is the new GX
  • 2 0
 Is there a trickle down? I will wait for the trickle.
  • 46 48
 Congratualtions SRAM. Your $550 top-of-the-line halo-product derailleur finally arrived on the same level of performance as a mid-level derailleur from Shimano which was released 4 years ago and costs less than $100. How very impressive.
  • 14 3
 Cmon man you will piss off the SRAM fanboy
  • 45 11
 That's not the case at all. Rather than spend time explaining why (there are plenty of words and moving pictures above that do that already), I'd recommend giving it a try someday. It's really impressive.
  • 15 2
 @mikekazimer: It shifts slowly to keep Ebikers from f*cking up their cassette. Any other great new features?
  • 8 1
 Right? Since HG+ I feel personally offended if I have to ride a bike with a sram drivetrain., it always sounds like im trying to break the bike.
  • 9 32
flag thenotoriousmic (Mar 21, 2023 at 8:00) (Below Threshold)
 Shit troll. Shimano arrived late with an inferior product as per usual. The last generation of srams drivetrains shat all over shimano’s latest offerings and the sram topped it with axs and then topped it again with this latest groupsets at this point who are Shimano? Ah yeah they’re the budget mountain bike brand and ebike enthusiasts.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: can you run your existing crankset and just add derailleur, cassette, and chain? or is the new crankset required?
  • 7 1
 Yea, it's funny how it seems like sram has finally managed to make a drivetrain that can shift under load, and it costs $1,599 USD, when shimano has Deore that shifts better under load, for about 600 $
  • 3 14
flag TheRamma (Mar 21, 2023 at 8:29) (Below Threshold)
 @laupe: cool, someone on this site that thinks Deore 12 spd is amazing. what a unique take.
  • 11 5
 @mikekazimer: I always forget how expensive Shimano stuff is for you guys. Here, a Shimano XT derailleur is less than 100€, which means that new SRAM X0 derailleur is five times as expensive. You'll have to admit, there's simply no way new SRAM X0 could perform five times better than current XT.

I'm sorry but I have really read your entire review and it honestly doesn't provide me with a single reason to believe that the new SRAM stuff could in any way improve my enjoyment of riding my bike.
  • 6 0
 @thenotoriousmic: That's funny. You must be the only person to ever think that SRAM SX Eagle is a decent product...
  • 1 3
 @RonSauce: I have a. XTR group set sitting in a box since I think AXS was better.
  • 1 4
 @Muscovir: wow really triggered fanboys with that post. Haha no I wouldn’t touch that shit with a barge pole, utter junk.
  • 2 0
 @fasian: The new cranksets use the 8 bolt sram direct mount. So you would probably need to buy the crankset as well.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: there is a good reason shimano hasn’t brought out it’s owen version of axs. It can make better shifting without the need
  • 1 0
 @Spencermon: you would think if your chainring was already setup for t style chain then it wouldn't matter?
  • 1 0
 @fasian: I don't know if the Road Flat top and T type chains are the same.
  • 2 0
 So does this mean we can't run sramano anymore?
  • 1 0
 I wonder how the set up process will work with High Pivot bikes? (Not that I care as I don't have one, or UDH hangers...)
  • 2 0
 just a guess with ovals will cause chaos on the new system?
  • 4 1
 Yawn
  • 3 0
 Ugh.
  • 2 2
 is the clutch adjustable or replaceable? i simply do not trust that it won’t fail at some point and leave you with a noisey bike.
  • 3 1
 Is the clutch still classic sram booty?
  • 2 0
 Gonna wait for a new non axs groupset
  • 1 0
 The shifter pod is ugly it could be a lot thinner, doesn't need to have fat huge buttons.
  • 1 0
 Can I just get a derailleur and use it with my current eagle cassette and shifter? Or do I need a new cassette as well?
  • 1 1
 Total crap…. Why? STICKS! Now you can kill your frame with sticks. No one in the north east US had input on the design….. complete fail
  • 4 1
 Ordered.
  • 2 0
 Looks like they are standing on the axle and not the derailleur so much.
  • 1 0
 I've been loving my shimAXS drivetrain... Sounds like sram finally got the shifting under torque thing figured out.
  • 1 1
 Sram people: "oh cool another new axs groupset I'll be able to buy."
Shimano people: "I wonder when that chain I need won't be backordered anymore."
  • 2 0
 I haven't even ridden my new AXS and it's already out dated......... sad
  • 1 0
 Can I use this new cassette and chain with a GX mech to take advantage of the shifting under load?
  • 1 0
 GX AXS for two years, still bulletproof. I love it.
I wonder if we can sneak that new AXS on a shimano drivetrain?
  • 1 0
 How many kms though?
  • 1 0
 I like how he adds an extra syllable to "derailleur". (or do I skip a syllable?).
  • 1 0
 459 comments thus far and nothing about e-bikes. Close to zero interest in this - my SRAM GX has been great for 3,500km
  • 2 0
 GX Eagle is a great drivetrain IMO.
  • 4 2
 Sram.. creating new expensive components to solve problems no one has.
  • 1 0
 It'll be interesting how Shimano responds to this.

XTR Di2 12speed UDH only too? or non UDH only! XTR Mechanical too?
  • 1 0
 This is an awesome product but I wish they would do something about that shifter.
  • 1 0
 CAN WE take one apart to see what 6 parts are replaceable? are they counting the pulleys in that?
  • 1 0
 Wondering if a magic pulley would work on older AXS stuff? Would it be any benefit in the clutch department?
  • 1 0
 @brianpark. Where is the article on the new epic that was used for the press release
  • 2 1
 Dentists are going need to leave their jobs and become plastic surgeons to keep up with the latest tech.
  • 2 0
 Great stuff… For sure is for the dentists
  • 1 0
 Also… Why there is EWS this weekend and the Fantasy hasn’t been already updated?
  • 1 1
 transmission (trɑːnzˈmɪʃən, tranzˈmɪʃən)

the mechanism by which power is transmitted from an engine to the axle in a motor vehicle.
  • 1 0
 Well... $1600 for that drivetrain or $500 to refresh my old one and a new Grip2 Fox 36 and a shock service- easy choice!
  • 1 0
 Good thing I just bought a bike that's not UDH compatible. Other than that, it's nice to see some innovation!
  • 1 0
 I want my next electronic shifter to use a touch sensitive scroll wheel like the first gen iPod.
  • 1 0
 The burning question. Does the clutch still flog out after 6 months of riding?
  • 9 8
 55mm chainline. No thanks.
  • 2 0
 Is 3mm wider cranks really that big of a deal?
  • 5 6
 @bikewriter, the cassette is moved out 2.5mm to ensure everything lines up nicely. I wouldn't lose any sleep over the chainline.
  • 43 4
 @mikekazimer: It's worth losing sleep over when it's not backwards compatible with any other SRAM drivetrain, and actually not backwards compatible with every UDH frame. We designed some new dropouts to Revision E of UDH a couple of years ago with structure on the dropout face plane, like we always have, like a lot of bikes do, then because SRAM can't control their data dissemination properly, we find out 6 months ago that we're now at Revision G, there a cassette and a chain right where I have frame structure and our bikes won't be Transmission compatible despite being UDH. I am betting we won't be the only brand with this issue.
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: Lines up nicely with what? Everything else they moved out?
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: Where we've been seeing bikes like the Fuel EX or the new Yetis moving to 55mm chainline, based around Eagle or Shimano 12 speed drivetrains, that's meant optimizing the chainline for more outboard gears compared to a 52mm chainline, right? And that's dumb, becasue more inboard gears are where most of us realistically spend most of our pedaling time.

But here with these new Transmission components, what you're saying is that even though the system is designed around positioning the chainring 55mm from the frame's centerline, the way that lines up with the cassette is essentially the same as the prior 52mm chainline?
  • 4 0
 @cotic-bikes: If they keep revising it, that kind of takes the wind out of the sails in saying it's universal.
  • 1 2
 @trashpander275: To be fair, every revision of the design has allowed the fitment of a regular UDH with a normal cassette position. The changes that have caught us out are the ones that allow the Transmission cassette to have its 2.5mm wider position without changing the XD Driver.
  • 4 1
 @BrambleLee: Not quite. The subtlety you missed is they have made the cassette sit 2.5mm wider on the XD Driver so the chain sits 2.5mm further out across the board. Whilst this lines up the chain with the 55mm chainline, it puts the cassette into an area which would usually have frame structure in it up until recently, which is the issue we have run into.
  • 8 8
 Well this made all regular frames obsolete.. nice one…kids crying now..thanks
  • 11 5
 ...or it just reduced the price of frames that are as good today as they were yesterday?
  • 1 0
 I gotta throw out my bike to get udh now?
  • 1 0
 Mountain bikes worst kept secret.
  • 1 0
 Hey @mikekazimer what crank length you run?
  • 2 0
 170mm
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: the beginning B roll for the video was so good, but then I hear some djenty music and you riding and I got so pumped up. Probably my favourite few seconds of any pinkbike video ever.
  • 1 0
 Can I use the new chain and cassette with the old eagle?
  • 1 0
 alright, time to switch the diet to two packs of ramen per day
  • 2 0
 Nope!
  • 1 0
 All this hype and it’s still 12 speed. Really wanted that 1x18..
  • 1 4
 It seems like your propagating misinformation with words like "If your frame comes with a UDH mount, it can run the new T-Type drivetrain system." direct quote. That UDH only refers to how to UDH mounts which is on the outside of the frame. This mounts to the outside AND inside. Not all UDH compatible frames will work.
  • 1 1
 Didn’t shimano have that integrated bash guard about 20 years ago. Nice too see sram catching up
  • 2 1
 I think I'm gonna go over to shimano next hah
  • 1 0
 Can I use those new cranks with "old" AXS?
  • 3 0
 Yes, that's one of the few components that's backwards compatible.
  • 1 0
 I just want that desert sand frame/wheel/tire set up.
  • 2 0
 Great video Henry.
  • 1 0
 Incredible, lemme know when it costs as much as GX though lol
  • 2 0
 No poof weading?
  • 1 0
 Best comment section in a while…
  • 1 0
 Que the “Is my bike udh compatible” comments/threads
  • 2 0
 This thing sucks
  • 1 2
 As of 9:14 PM eastern daylight time, "Shimano" has a commanding lead on "gearbox" in the comment section, 66 to 18. The Shimano fanboys are out in force!
  • 1 1
 Wireless will be a thing of the past once all brands realize the internal gearbox is the way to go.
  • 1 1
 So will we have to run srams hubs too? So if a new bike comes out you have to more or less rock it stock?
  • 1 1
 Awesome, the transfer to 27.5 already obsoleted all my bikes once, now UDH gets to obsolete all my bikes again.
  • 1 0
 Stoked to see a cable actuated version!
  • 1 0
 2 dudes standing on it got my attention, count me in on cabled version!
  • 1 0
 That seat stay tho.... looks a bit snappy
  • 1 0
 CABLES!!! are my passion. Sram is dead to me.
  • 1 1
 44-52t is still a big jump. They could have addressed that better. Ill stick with shimano.
  • 1 0
 No pictures so someone standing on it?
  • 1 0
 A drivetrain not to have in an EMP
  • 3 3
 Is nobody else bummed that they're still only making cranks down to 165mm?
  • 1 1
 yes. 6 ft tall, on a demo right now with 150s, and I kinda love them. already on 160s, but thinking of going shorter.
  • 1 0
 Super excited about this
  • 1 0
 Harvey DENT is Two-Face
  • 1 0
 INDUSTRY DISRUPTED
  • 1 0
 Sram. Eat my yam bag.
  • 1 0
 Nice bike Mike
  • 1 0
 Linkglide > T-Type
  • 2 4
 But it's still a rear mech... If ShimRAMo just put their efforts into gearboxes the world would be a better place.
  • 1 1
 No thank you
  • 6 8
 The chain weighs 456, you must be joking
  • 4 0
 Typo, it should be 256g.
  • 2 0
 Gotta be a typo. There's no way it weighs 200g more than a GX Eagle chain.
  • 2 0
 Those pins are extra solid.
  • 7 0
 I was. It's actually 256 grams.
  • 1 0
 @toast2266: it might. it is for ebikes Smile lite version available too.
  • 4 6
 What's the point of requiring UDH compatibility if it's direct mount??
  • 13 1
 They spent the last several years pushing UDH so companies would make frames that used their new standard. Now they have a huge pool of compatible existing frames to which people can mount their new system. SRAM played the long game under the guise of being consumer friendly.
  • 2 0
 It needs a frame that supports UDH to work. The mounting method for the driect mount is essentially the same shape/design as a UDH. If your bike doesn't support UDH, it won't have any way of mounting this derailluer.
  • 3 0
 I did some research after my initial comment. This looks like a really good, reliable system, but it's very expensive initially.
  • 11 2
 @schu2470: It wasn't a guise...it is consumer friendly, the UDH is good for everyone even if they had a different primary motivation. It was brilliant business move.
  • 1 0
 @danielfloyd: no doubt.
  • 5 0
 @bmied31: Fair enough. I do agree that I'd rather have my bikes all take the same $18 mech hanger rather than all having a different one for ~$30 each.

I guess why I said what I did is it feels a little scummy for SRAM to be able to influence frame design in such a way that only they will benefit from as far as new derailleur tech goes. They sure as shit aren't making the direct mount design open source so those who prefer Shimano won't benefit from the advance to direct mount. It feels like market manipulation.
  • 5 0
 Because the inboard part of the RD occupies the space where the UDH would have gone. They basically put UDH out there as a standard to pave the way for mounting a RD directly to the axle and skipping the UDH altogether (but still giving people the option to run a standard derailleur on the same frame). Honest to god 4D chess moves by SRAM - but it actually works out great for the consumer IMO.
  • 1 0
 @schu2470: seems pretty user friendly when a UDH frame can run any drivetrain, including this new one.

Reminds me, I need a new spare $40 hanger for my non UDH frame...
  • 1 0
 @schu2470: I agree to a point. It doesn't have any negative effects to a Shimano derailleur hanger or shifting(possibly has positive effects). Just ensures that Shimano cannot piggy back on their "innovation"
  • 3 0
 looking at that pic with the ABP in a UDH an thinking, snapped seat stays may be a future of that set up..............
  • 1 2
 13 speed inevitable
  • 2 0
 shimano patented a 13 speed cassette in like 2001. fingers crossed it doesnt happen..
  • 2 0
 For what benefit?
  • 1 0
 @scantregard: With the right range, 9 is plenty.
  • 3 5
 WTF is UDH?
  • 4 0
 Universal Derailleur Hanger.
  • 5 0
 United Defense Horses
  • 1 0
 User Data Header
  • 3 0
 Unintended Double Hangover
  • 2 0
 A way of reducing parts count for OEMs
  • 2 5
 Take my money
  • 1 0