Review: 2021 Rocky Mountain Instinct Carbon 90

 comes with 350 hubs too.

 @mtb-scotland: any model below 8500$ gets 370s hahaha

 @zombiejack33: ripping the pish with that one.

 Yes why is the fit4 damper still around if the Grip2 was supposed to be such a revolutionary upgrade?

 @rwjones4: Because you can lockout the fork which no one outside of xc hardtails does nowadays anyway.

 @zombiejack33: Yeah, RM are really skimping on the wheels. Got the Altitude C50 at a nice discount and the bike overall is great. But that rear wheel and 370 hub will be replaced asap

 And hey! Let's share the frame among other models, but still charge $3500 US for frame only.

 Rocky Mountain consistently seems to be missing the mark when it comes to their build spec and value. It's too bad because everything I've read suggests their frames are sweet.

 Only going to get worse. All of these companies know they are going to sell 100% of their bikes this year with zero discounting due to demand so they are all getting greedy. 500-1000$ price increases easy and spec lowered to increase profit.

Yes, they are all trying to screw you. And they can and will. And when all these new people quit you can bet they won’t lower prices.

The contempt the bike companies have for their customers is unmatched except for maybe BMW and Porsche.

 @wibblywobbly: I know there's supply shortages, but is there really high demand for S9k bikes? I agree that they're price gouging on lower end models as well. It just seems like there's way higher demand for low end to mid range bikes than normal but not necessarily a huge amount more demand for ridiculously high priced bikes. I could be wrong, that's just the impression I get.

 @wibblywobbly: From seeing the OE component price increases, a lot of brands won't be making more money even with higher RRPs. Material & production cost increases for their own brand parts, combined with the 5-15% increase in component prices, combined with massively increased shipping costs mean it's a pretty bad time to be trying to spec an affordable bike (or indeed be a customer trying to get an affordable bike). That's before you even get into the issues that a lot of brands are having with insanely long lead times and stock availability. There have been plenty of articles posted on here talking about - for example - SRAM having over 400 day lead times for some drivetrain components where they'd normally be 30-40.

I'm sure some brands will be squeezing out a little extra profit where they can, but for the most part these increases aren't because they just wanted to make an extra 5-10% from each bike sale. The whole industry is pretty screwed at the moment - it'll be interesting to see how many brands and retailers make it out of 2021.

 @CleanZine: What you say is true. But the fact remains that lots of other companies, even non direct to consumer companies, are offering similarly speced bikes for far less money. Something still doesn't add up with the value of rocky.

 FIT4 keeps the weight down versus GRIP2. I have the previous generation Instinct and the FIT4 is good spec choice. After all, quoting Kaz, the Instinct is for "Big days in the Chilcotins, epics in the Colorado high country". Not so much for banging out shuttle laps or podiuming your local EWS feeder.

 @CleanZine: What you said isn’t wrong. But it’s not the whole story.

All the people working from home are making more money than ever. They can’t go on vacation or eat out so they have no problem dropping big bucks on a bike.

Who knows how long these people stick around riding once things open up again. The bike companies are taking advantage of the boom and couldn’t care less about the people who have been loyal customers.

Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered.

 @zombiejack33: i'm now laughing in EVIL with my Hydra hubs on a gx build

 @zombiejack33: Giant does the same thing, terrible engagement 3 pawl hubs on super expensive bikes. Unacceptable.

 @mtb-scotland: well you get a 350 rear hub, not front

 Apparently the GRIP2 won't actually fit in the Step cast forks. so regardless of specs, Fox has to keep FIT4 around in at least the variants that fit in the 32 and 34. (just as another reason why you still see it around.)

 @wibblywobbly: Moutain biking is an enthusiast sport. No one NEEDS a new bike, people just want one. As long as the consumers are willing to pay the supplier will continue to do this to their customers. Santa Cruz just sent a letter to their customers saying they are increasing prices as well. Boutique brands eventually will get a reality check when the consumer finally figures out whats going on.

 The value on this bike is pure garbage. Call it $10k and you get; Fit4 fork, DT 350 hubs (not even 240, come on!), Race Face rims, Race Face cranks, a WTB Race spec saddle which comes with CroMoly rails, Race Face branded dropper (yes I know it's made by Fox, at that price you should get an actual Fox)...

Fuuuuuuuuuk that.

 @mtb-scotland:
That's just the rear, $9400 gets you a house brand front hub

 @Lastpikd: Same people spending this kind of money on bikes must be the same ones bidding $50k+ over asking price on homes in my area. A few other bike companies have increased prices as well.

 I won't argue about it being on a step cast...

But why bother with the fit 4 in a 36? Every fit 4 I've ridden has been super harsh and has no place being on a bike with a 36. I demod a pivot with a 130 34 in the fit4. My 140 grip1 felt so much better. Same with my buddies 36 and a fit 4... Trash...

 The 370 really is that bad. Speaking from experience on a high spec 2018 altitude. It was unreliable and out of place on an otherwise great build. @zombiejack33:

 @wibblywobbly: well said!

 How the hell does a $9400 bike not come with a 450cc four-stroke engine?

 @kcy4130: You're right on. Specialized is selling the Stumpjumper EVO Pro for 7500. The only difference between that and the RM is X01 Eagle/Codes and Roval wheels. Literally everything else is similar down to the wheels (just swap out Roval carbon rims for the Race Face). When you're losing the spec/price game to the big red S, you done messed up.

 embarrassing spec for the money, especially in CAD$.

 @kcy4130: It's not so much 'high demand' on its own, it's the supply/demand ratio. The bike industry, as with many other consumer goods industries, is suffering from restricted supply due to manufacturing shutdowns and subsequent backlogs in SE Asia, meaning that supply/demand ratio is jacked.

They will sell every single one at full price (wholesale), and those that want one may complain about the price, but they'll still buy it (likely having to pre-order it), because they're 'lucky' to get it.

 @kcy4130: Totally - all the different brands are in different positions in terms of the cost of producing bikes (i.e. small brands will pay substantially more for OE parts and their own manufactured goods than a big brand), the cost of shipping (larger volume can generally get you discounts) and so on, but they will naturally have different ideas of what constitutes a fair margin. Some brands don't seem to offer particularly great value compared to others, but my point was more that this isn't simply a case of price gouging as @wibblywobbly was implying. There are a lot of things kicking in at once that are having a materiel impact on the cost of producing bikes, and it's not possible for brands (more so for brands with distributors rather than direct to consumer) to simply absorb those increases. It's worth noting that those direct to consumer brands will be making around 15-20% more at least on a comparatively priced bike than brands using a distribution/dealer model, so they've got much more wiggle room. Of the brands using the distribution/dealer model, the bigger ones will usually have extra margin to play with compared to the smaller brands using that model too.

As before, no doubt they aren't slitting their own throats with their pricing and will be looking to make some profit, but it isn't as simple as saying that cycling in general is having a boom right now and therefore they can charge what they want.

I think it's likely that some brands are over-forecasting bikes under the idea that the boom from the initial lockdown periods of 2020 will carry through to those same new riders to the sport buying new bikes in 2021, but I don't really see that happening. No doubt some of them will, but there's no way it'll be that kind of peak. With how long lead times are and how far out brands are having to order future stock of bikes, it could well be that 2022 is a great year for riders looking to get a good deal on a bike - those brands over-forecasting now will wind up with quite a bit of surplus stock they can't get rid of.

I doubt that prices will go back down to what they were in 2018/19, but with inflation that's never going to happen anyway. Using the Bank of England's calculator, a bike that cost £3000 in 2018 would cost £3123~ now, for context.

 In fact yes, they pass it on *the* consumers - all their managers need to buy Porches, yachts and nice houses.

 @lkubica: It's vancouver, No-one is buying a nice house on a bike industry salary.

 My naive hope is that they’d pay their racers more. Jesse said he could get more money elsewhere but loves the team.

 This is no different than what they did with the previous gen Instinct and Instinct BC (which has since merged with the Altitude). Same front and rear triangle with a different link and shock gives 140/140 or 155/160 bikes. The cost and time of tooling, and validating carbon layup... I would be disappointed if they made two nearly identical front triangles for those bikes, frankly. Or do things have to be different for the sake of being different??

 So why not get an Altitude with a DPX shock and 150mm fork, and just stuff it full of all the volume spacers you can? It will sag less and ride like a shorter stroke shock most of the time, and you'll only ever use the full 160mm of travel on drops to flat.

 Never thought Specialized would be the bike industry's good guys, but I'd love someone from Rockey Mountain's marketing team to put one of these side-by-side with a Stumpjumper EVO Expert and explain to me, "Here's why you should spend an extra $4,500 on our bike."

I'll bet about halfway through, their pants would catch on fire.

 Lol came here to say that too.

RM: "We saved a BUNCH of money by re-using frame molds!"
Customer: "Great! How much is the bike?!"
RM: "$9,400 complete, $3550 frame only!"

I don't need to write out the Customer response to that.

 @atourgates: specialized changed a lot over the years, now they are a great value brand

 well if both the altitude and the instinct both preform well on their own for what each are designed, why couldn't someone buy one or the other and buy extra suspension to allow them to have two bikes in one? seems being able to set up your bike to be either a trail bike or an enduro bike with switching of a shock, fork, and shock mount can save the customer a TON of money versus buying two bikes. the price is kinda high for the bike but this is just the first bike to be released with the full weight of covid supply and demand issues Inflation, and new import fees that have been put on these bikes now needs to be considered. i would bet the price on this will be on par with every other bike comparable that comes out this summer

 @rumblefish255: This. shock mount, shock and air shaft for fork. So much hate in the comments here. I see two bikes for the price of 1.1

 @atourgates: I know that if a brand were to price their frame/shock option below the stratosphere I would be way more inclined to buy something from them.

$3500 for any bike frame and shock seems insane when you can get a decent entire bike for the same or less.

 @rumblefish255: Its not so simple. I'd also want different tire/wheel setups, plus who knows what else. Weight doesn't matter for enduro, but I think it matters for trail. So dropping the travel on your fox 38 for "trail" mode will be quite heavy, and probably overly stiff since forks get stiffer as you shorten the axle to crown length.

 @rumblefish255: Ya, It's a bummer that the Helm Coil can't go up to 170mm or else that'd make it easy! You'd just need the 2nd shock and shock mount. Not a quick change, but something you could do while servicing your fork.

 @lkubica: @lkubica: No one at Rocky is buying a Porsche AND a yacht AND a nice house... Not even Simmons or Gully. Clearly you haven't seen the cost of living in Vancouver. You can choose two, but not all three... or at least so I'm told.

 @atourgates: Too bloody right. I bought my first Stumpy Evo (complete bike) brand new for less money than the cost of the RM frame only option. This RM pricing is just plain stupid.

 @bigmike9699: Then they should move. Honestly, if the cost of living in Vancouver is preventing them from bringing out decently priced bikes, they should move their headquarters.

 @Mikevdv: On bike industry salary in Vancouver you're pulling tricks on East Hastings just to pay rent on your 100 square foot apartment... and the sole reason you work in the bike industry is because it's the cheapest way to replace all your bikes that keep getting stolen.

 @RickRossovich: Well hold on, that's not exactly what I said...is it? Rocky isn't the biggest bike maker in the world, I would say it's pretty understandable that I would be able to get more at another company that is larger. Rocky treats me well, plus I get to stay at a brand that I love with all my friends!

 AND they're using the same frame as the altitude so they're saving on the cost of molds.

 The price is equivalent to €7900.

For €4400 the Hugene comes with the Grip 2 factory and the same shock plus a GX Eagle drivetrain. Granted, the wheelset is Propain’s own brand but I can live with that and I feel much better about paying that figure for a trail bike given that I’m knocking on for 50 and not riding half as much as I should.

 @rustiegrizwold: I think this is quite easily one of the worst value bikes I've seen in ages!

 100% agree. They have the worst colour schemes and styling AND the prices have always been terrible for what you get. Kona is the same way as well. I'll yawn and pass!

 @StumpHumper45: No, come on now. Intense has the worst color schemes.

 @TheR: Id say yes. But Id rather see worst of neon colors on a bike that makes it look exciting rather than the boring schemes Rocky does.

 @chillrider199: For Intense, it’s not so much the neon, which in principle I like. It’s how they put it all together. Rocky had a good thing going with the colors about 2-3 years ago. They had the cool yellow/blue slayer (and a red one, I think). The blue and maroon Altitude. I guess these aren’t horrible, but not the most exciting pain jobs.

 Their overpriced bikes are beautiful, I don't know what you're talking about.

 @TheR: I have the blue and maroon altitude aluminum frame. It's so ugly in person that I painted over the maroon. I think the carbon one had more maroon and looked better, but with only maroon accents it's fairly terrible.

 @AndrewHornor: LOL!

 @TheR: heard they did 2021colors as a collab with Stevie Wonders

 @TheR: True true. I have not seen it. But at least Intense has paint that will not corroding away.

 @AndrewHornor: Really? All good, man, but I saw it in person and kind of liked it. Different strokes.

@usedbikestuff: Yep, I think that every time I look at an Intense monstrosity. It’s too bad, too, because they make nice bikes.

 I have a 2018 Altitude and must object (of course). The turquoise-dark red paint scheme from that year still makes for one of the most beautiful bikes out there.

 @StumpHumper45: Don't forget broken chainstays. I would love to rock a rocky, but nope... They consistently miss the mark year over year (aesthetic, build, price and reliability).

 @spencerbrawn: Oh yeah... AND local LBS is still waiting on RM bikes from August. Be wary of putting deposits down on them as well.

 @StumpHumper45: deposit, lol. No one has anything. Straight swindling customers.

 @StumpHumper45 I still remember when they used to have some of the best colour schemes.

nsmb.com/articles/3265-readers-rides-11
www.mtbchannel.com/gammes/2008/rocky-mountain/5354/Slayer-SXC-50

 The 27.5 wheeled Altitudes were beautiful. Almost bought one on looks alone. The new Instinct looks boring, though.

 @StumpHumper45: thats interesting, my LBS said Rocky is one of the only ones delivering. They have revived most of their RMs but said Norco and Giant shit the bed.

 @StumpHumper45: I see new RM all over my LBS, Santa Cruz and even Trek are missing but not Rocky's...

 Exactly. I mean I’d ride a RM but these prices are absurd.

 I would rather have a SB130 T2 lunch ride and save 2k. Price is crazy for that Rocky.

 Agreed, people born and raised on the North American continent may never even think about this, but for a large amount of the english speaking mtb world this is a bit of an issue.

 @AyJayDoubleyou: Isn't it just really England and Aussies? I've seen Kiwi bikes set up both ways.

It seems that having the steering wheel on the wrong side, coupled with the backwards roads skews your opinion.

What can I say though, as someone from the USA, we still measure stuff using dims garnered from misc body parts and archaic shaky navigational standards.

Excuse me while I go eat 3/4 pound of charred animal flesh I harvested with my automatic weapon after walking a mile, up hill, in the snow, shoeless.

 @AyJayDoubleyou: If you just rode with the brakes on the proper gentlemanly sides it wouldn't be a problem.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: around a third of the world drive on the left, so need the brakes the other way round, including big bike markets in Asia like Japan and a lot of Southern Africa.

Of course, it wouldn't be an issue if bike manufacturers gave the public what they want and made bikes with external routing!

 Agreed. I’ll never buy a bike without a Moto routining option.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: I've never seen American style brakes in NZ.

 @PhillipJ: see it lots, pretty large chunk of riding population learned to ride while on their OE in Canada.

 @PhillipJ: 'American'? I know France & Belgium use the same setup as 'American', Canada too. I think it's really British related, UK, Aus, NZ....I believe Italy and would guess Japan follow the 'moto' layout also.

Based on this the Americans followed Frances lead:

www.renehersecycles.com/which-hand-for-which-brake

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: I really don't understand the 'Merican, French, whatever way.

I like to know that if I'm going to grab a fistful of brake to nose-wheelie a landing on my mtb or moto then it is the same hand. Call me simple, but it makes sense.

What exactly is the benefit of the other way around?

Now I'm going to eat my half-kilo of charred kangaroo that I harvested with my boomerang.

 @bonfire: Lol - 'pretty large chunk'
Most of New Zealand's riding population didn't learn to ride bikes overseas you muppet

 @PhillipJ: "American style" haha . Literally the whole right-side-of-the-road-driving world sets their bicycle brakes like that. This is mainly a UK/Oz/NZ problem - that's 3 (three) countries.

Yes, other countries drive on the left but have you ever seen these comments here from e.g. Japanese riders? In terms of mtb market size it really is a very limited issue. No idea how they set commuter bikes up in Japan or if it's ever been a problem on those.

And no, it doesn't seem to bother motorcyclists in mainland Europe that their pushbikes don't have the front brake on the same side as their motos. Plus, coming from mainland and living in the UK I still set my brakes up the continental way and it never caused me any difficulties while riding on the left side in traffic.

 I learned to ride a hand brake on a motorcycle before I ever had one on a bicycle, and I can say with complete confidence I've never mentally switched it up mid-ride. But I am left-handed, and left-handed people are mentally more adaptable and generally smarter, so maybe it's that.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: and better looking, with bigger junk too. It's science.

 In short people have a preference and around 80% of bikes have to run continental or you’re compromising on routing.

Hence racist routing.

 @jclnv:It's more bias than racism.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: It only effects people of colonial Anglo Saxon heritage. Disgusting racism.

 @o-man: worked in bike shops and events for 5 years here after moving from Canada. Would say about a 3rd of my customers have them setup my way. So chill.

 I remember an Instinct C50 with ballpark the same parts ran like $5500 CAD only about two years ago, now it's 7k for a 2mm thicker fork on each side. That's not keeping up with a 2% Canadian inflation rate.

 @j-t-g: same with my altitude c50 was around 5000$ liked the bike but now way overpriced I got a custom made druid everything carbon for a bit over the price of the new carbon 50 instinct.

 mtb-news.de says it is the same frame just with a different upper shock link that is screwed to the frame and can possibly be changed to turn it into the Enduro version with a X2 shock. Also, they had the bike with a Grip2 fork.

 It's got a different stroke-length shock, with most likely also a very different tune. I'm not surprised that it feels very different.

 @mtb-journal: the Altitude framset is $300 more haha. I guess that X2 shock is $300 more than the DPX2?

 @hamncheez: It actually is quite close to that. The DPX2 is very much Fox's value shock designed to compete directly with the really low price points possible in the Super Deluxe chassis. With independent HS adjusted on the FX2 that shock is a good chunk more expensive than even the highest level SDLX which uses a very simple damper design.

 @callumreynolds, yes it is - I mention that in the second sentence of the review.

 @mikekazimer: so you did. I just look at the pictures

 he was elected to lead, not to read

 Agreed. The 370 hub is garbage. I blew the drive ring in mine after 60 hours use. Luckily the warranty process was rock solid with Rocky Mountain. Sounds like a lot of problems with the 370 hub last year. They were going to upgrade me to a 350 hub, but couldn't get stock from DT. Rocky let the shop handle it and they rebuilt my wheel with a hub that they had in stock. All in all I got a Hope Pro 4 hub rebuilt instead of having to wait for an eternity for a 350 hub to show up.

As for the durability of the frame, it's been rock solid. TBH I like the idea of running a bigger front fork (160) with a 50 dollar air shaft and then you could swap the shock out for a longer stroke and get a 155mm bike for shuttle laps. 1000 bucks is a helluva lot cheaper than 2 bikes.

 Those enduro race teams have to be funded by the consumer one way or another

 Hey bud, some of this would be depreciated (the molds).

 Sad to say that you'll be seeing lots more price increases across all brands over the next year. This RM is just one of the first.

 @WheelNut: It is already happening. My wife bought an Orbea Occam H20 at the beginning of COVID and the same bike is 10% more now. However, RM's prices have always been out of wack.

 Thanks @Dtwillow, glad you enjoyed it.

 Your review of his review is very well done as well. You clearly highlight all the great parts of the review clearly and concisely. 5/5

 I feel like this bike’s trying to compete with the Ripmo AF and its ilk. Honestly, I’m not sure how favorable a comparison that is. I’ve ridden a Ripmo, and at least in my mind, the reviews aren’t exaggerating when they call it mind-blowing. Everything I’ve read about this new Rocky has just been lukewarm. Could be a nice bike, but I’m not sure why I’d buy it if I can get a Ripmo AF with a much better spec for the same price that’ll pedal better and descend just as well.

 You need to realize that where this bikes geo and style sits, is really as far as the bikes in our current industry can really go. They updated the clearly outdated frames from the last couple years and now join the rest of the brands in this modern design. Really, you could say the same exact thing you said about any of the bikes out right now.

 @smith06840: I went from a 2018 RM Instinct C70 to a 2021 Ripmo AF GX build. Both good bikes, but the Ripmo AF descends on another level, but RM was quicker on the pedals b/c it was a lot lighter but the Rimpo AF still pedals very well. With these new 2021 prices the RM bikes are totally uncompetitive in my opinion. Too bad b/c they are nice bikes.

 @smith06840: maybe because a ripmo looks shit?

 @mackay66: The Ripmo really is an ugly bike.

 @mackay66: lmao I can't get over the ripmo's looks either. Just looks so bloated haha. I know it's not the best idea but I need to love the look and color of my bike.

 I imagine they are also desperate to recoup the costs of the massive recall of frames last year.

 "Future proof their pricing"... As in, over-charge because there's currently a shortage of bikes. Great. Meanwhile, the past year has included numerous examples of bikes with good spec at super reasonable prices.

 It's an all mountain bike, you're right.

 Thanks for the heads up on price increases. If there were any bikes available, I’d buy this year!

Can’t wait to see what the next generation of Yeti’s cost

 If you're still hung up on complaining about pressfit BB, you need to wake up. haha

 Getting a threaded pressfit BB from the likes of Wheels mfg is an easy fix, if you ever have problems

 No excuse. They call it a feature.

 @JorisSneagle: superb option

 WOW.

 Have to agree on this one.

 Not really a negative. Press fit is fine if you know how to change them and the frame tolerances are good. Problem is it puts off a lot of people due to bad fit of either the bottom bracket or the frame. Check out hambini's take. Having said that though, I would personally steer toward a threaded BB frame just to make life easier. But the customers of this bike won't be doing their own wrenching, they will be far too busy whitening teeth or offering botox injections to pay for their new carbon whip.

 youtu.be/3l6EcBg9EPA

Nothing wrong with press fit. Like anything else it's on how well it's done.

 Seems the issue is that these guys have squeezed out the All Mountain category, it's either a trail bike or enduro with nothing in between.

 @Tinshield: 65d HTA with a hell of a lot of reach...I'd guess it'd do just fine/OK as an all mountain bike for most places outside of the truly gnarly locations. Its such a nebulous designation these days. That's the thing tho, an All Mountain bike for B-Ham and Squamish...is the Altitude plain and simple. Likely with the shorter chainstays.. There are guys that want a shorter travel version of that but I wouldn't fault rocky for skipping that any more than Pivot/Ibis skipping it. I think at this point we are on the margins more than messing around with flawed bikes.

 I really lucked out getting mine. so depressing.

 That’s my bike! :-)

 Sure, I like enduro bikes, but I'm also a big fan of shorter travel bikes that can hold their own in the techy stuff. My personal bike last year was an Optic, and that's definitely not an enduro machine. The tricky thing with the all-mountain / aggressive trail category is that bikes like the Instinct run the risk of being a jack of all trades, master of none. It is versatile like you mentioned, it's just there wasn't any one particular aspect of it that really floored me.

 @mikekazimer: "The tricky thing with the all-mountain / aggressive trail category is that bikes like the Instinct run the risk of being a jack of all trades, master of none."

Isn't that the point? Jack of all trades, bike of all terrains/mountains. DHs bikes go down fastest, enduro bikes go down fast but can still get up, XC bikes go up fastest, downcountry bikes go up fast and still go down reasonably, and trail/AM bikes do everything.

I don't see how being decent at everything ever be a bad thing for a trail/all-mountain/mid-travel bike... goes up good but not best, goes down good but not best. if you _need_ better or best performance for any one specific job, you get a different tool.

 @just6979: His point is there are jack of all trade bikes that simply jack of all trade better than the Instinct

 @mikekazimer: I hear you, but also @just6979 has a point as well. I don't think the Fit4 fork helps the case, but you have to ride what you're given.

 @onestuntwonder Great you travelled all over BC. We currently have travel advisories in place to not travel out of our local regions here in BC. I am sorry but your post lacks self awareness and is a bit of kick in the nutz to the rest of us in BC who have not been able to see family in months due to adhering to travel restrictions. Thanks for not doing your part.

 @riklassen: This was during the Summer when restrictions were relaxed, and we were in a small group camping and staying out of towns.

 Have you seen new specialized bikes? they look nothing like this and are way better value

 @arrowheadrush: Ya I actually do like the new aesthetic, but I meant to point out more so that RM used to have very unique designs including their pivots and linkage, now they look like Intense bikes with different paint schemes. Actually in hindsight I was thinking of intense carbines but couldn't place it

 @arrowheadrush: Seriously. I bought my last Specialized a year ago, and didn't think I'd be buying another.

Now, with the value and performance they deliver with the Stumpy and Enduro - it's hard to make a case for anything else.

 @atourgates: Im generally a "support the little guy" shopper, but when i ordered a new bike in the fall, the new Stumpy just kept rising to the top of my list. It arrived just over a week ago and man, what a bike. The frame is an absolute thing of beauty. It really makes this rocky look boring in comparison.

 @arrowheadrush: a-symmetrical grossness though. o.c.d. says NO specialized.

 @arrowheadrush: specialized has been killing it lately. Great bikes and great prices.

 I'd like to try this new Instinct and compare it to my last gen Instinct. I've ridden current bikes from Marin and Trek, and I've noticed that Rocky's suspension design just makes for a more lively bike. It doesn't feel as damped as the other brands, so it didn't have as much of a track the ground feeling the other bikes did, yet it pops off little hips and jumps better. So I can see what Kazimer means when the trails are more gnarly. However, I have taken it down some pretty rowdy stuff and it felt confident enough.

 @jaywindh: yup. agree. they ride like a bike should. not like a dirtbike that we hate but yet wish our bikes felt like.

 So true. Or replaces it only in the sense that they replaced a pretty interesting bike with a unique character with the bicycle equivalent of a bowl of oatmeal.

 @KennyWatson: can't pry my 2019 Thunderbolt A50 from my cold dead hands. hope to ride it as long as possible. end game bike for me.

 I'm also curious about this @mikekazimer

 @Nerra: Same same.

 @wideopennewzealand, you can see the strip of tape under the pads in this photo: www.pinkbike.com/photo/19356357. I cut a thin strip, just a few millimeters wide, and stick it directly to the caliper.

 Oooooh that is not what I was picturing. Very interesting though

 @mikekazimer: thanks for the photo! And this is to stop them rattling? I can't say I've ever noticed them making a noise but maybe I'm used to it.

edit: just went to my bike in the garage and wiggled them and I now I can see how they rattle. Gonna try this trick!

 When your friend let's you copy their homework but makes you change it a little

 @j-t-g: I think the Norco Optic is a newer design? If so, maybe they copied Rocky Mountain.

 How could it possibly be newer than this morning lol?

Optic was hitting reviews fall 2019. Here we are a year and a half later with this thing.

 @j-t-g: From the article, I assumed this frame was copied from another model:

"Not only does the Instinct borrow the Altitude's frame...."

 3500 US bucks for a frame is ludicrous that is like $4,400.00 Canadian hard earned bucks. How bout selling an aluminum frame for us non-dentists out there.

 Not mullet as far as I know but on my prev. gen instinct, the manual says that if you run 27.5, you had to run a different sized lower headset cup to adjust for the geo to make it the same.

 Every friggin bike brand has bikes that break, get over it already.

 @hi-dr-nick: But usually if your bike breaks within a year they'll at least get you a front triangle that's the same colour as your rear triangle.

 @aharms: Why the hell should someone buy a bike, have it out of service for 2/6 months owned, get a replacement that has no resale value (cause no one wants a bike that looks like shit), then be expected to paint it on their own dime. If we are "paying for sophisticated engineering and development" then why does rocky always seem to have recalls and well known issues with their products? I could give a shit less about how much they spend on this or that, at the end of the day their frames suck, and how they handled the recalls compared to other bike companies is pathetic.

 @aharms: Rocky's warranty is not up to par compared to most bike brands out there. 1-5 year warranty (depending on the part of the frame...) might have been ok 10-15 years ago, but everyone is adopting lifetime warranty nowadays (as they should, bikes are more durable than ever). The way they go about recalls is also just not acceptable. I would call it the BARE minimum. When the carbon Wilsons were recalled, Devinci sent everyone an alloy front triangle free of charge right away as they couldn't manufacture the carbon ones fast enough. Once the carbon FTs were good to go, they sent those out too (and surprise surprise, in the same colour). They are another small brand, and they took a massive hit doing it that way, but they did it the right way and kept customers happy. I would be LIVID if I spent more than $4k on a bike, and within a year it looked like a franken bike. I'm surprised Rocky doesn't seek to drastically change their frames to make them stronger/ less prone to failure in order to lessen these kinds of blows. It might actually save them $$ and integrity in the long run.

 @leon-forfar: Agreed.

 I'm with you man. 2018 ugly recall bike owner here. Not going to bother selling it at a crazy loss anytime soon. Still bitter but glad I've got a bike. On the plus side I don't give a shit about scratches anymore.

 @mikecito: 100% Honestly had they just paint matched I wouldn't have an issue (even if it was a longer wait time). I genuinely liked the bike and how it rode, even more so than this new one as seen at the local shop today. Cant deny looks are important to bike owners and effort should have been put into that too.

 @aharms: I sold software for basically testing the structural integrity of anything. It was the most premium software that was modelled specifically for use with non linear forces. Let me tell you how cheap the bike industry is and they just sort of scrape by with what they have and use a safety factor.

 For FEA analysis

 nothing wrong with horst link. it's not outdated. It just does not WOW your eyeballs like some fancy made up hard to clean complicated "link". materialism at it's finest. horst link can be tuned all day long.

 Yep, aluminum is a great deal. Doesn't mean that carbon doesn't have a place for those who enjoy it.

 Good point.... go try and order one.

 Nope , best value for canadian right now is devinci , norco or commencal I would say

 @Elgaucher: Norco for sure

 @hi-dr-nick: You're not canadian...

 @hi-dr-nick: not sure how norco is for you but here you can build your range on their site and pretty much decide where you want to invest the bulk of your money

 @hi-dr-nick: says the American with a yeti...

 @Elgaucher: alloy, Lyrik Ultimate build, Deore xt slx is the best. bang build

 @Elgaucher: Giant used to be one of the best deals as well. I can't speak to the current bikes, I went devinci this spring. Django spec to price is super competitive vs RM. My 14' instinct 950 was $3200 which is now over 5k. Considering I dont have many original parts left on it I don't know how the value compares to the new 50 alloy.

 @Elgaucher: while you can decide where to spend the bulk of your money with the Norco custom build program, going that route is much more expensive than going with one of their pre-spec'd bikes. I put together a "budget spec" alloy Sight that included fox suspension, and the final price was ridiculous.

 @mammal: Agreed just to compare I put together something like the A50 on the Norco site and it was pretty close in price.

 @hi-dr-nick: Not even close compared to Rocky. They are way cheaper.

 I think somewhere along the line the industry probably realized the warranty claims were unsustainable? We used to break a lot of 25 lbs bikes year ago. I do think the new breed of bikes are stronger, more efficient and the suspension is just more supportive. I know I am definitely riding alot faster today than I was in 2000 both up and down. My all mountian is about 30-31 lbs and no issue riding epics with it. I have a lighter trail bike but wheel weight is about the same so I can't really say one is easier than the other.

 because people noticed that they’d rather have a bike that is more fun on the downs and breaks less than one that only slightly lessens the suffering on the climbs and breaks down more often

 @Upduro: Trail bikes getting heavier and e-bikes getting lighter. :-)

 @Tinshield: that is so true there are under 40 pound EEEEEEEH bikes and now we have a 35 pound trail bike

 @Tinshield: My Superlight, Nomad, Mojo, Bandit and my Trance are all 30 lbs and under none broke and all are mid late 2000. I did break 3 GT XCR1000 team issue frames in under 6 months of soft riding in early 2000 but that is it. I still ride the Bandit, Mojo and Nomad and the rest were sold.

 @Upduro: Tell that to Rocky who had a massive recall this past year how was that for riding your virtual bike.

 @madmon: I never broke much back then but people around me did. We had some pretty light bikes back then. Tacoed wheels were pretty common too. :-)

 You're looking at the graph wrong. The dotted line is the anti-squat and the solid line is the leverage ratio.

 @borlowski90: Oh so I am, cheers

 I just googled a 2003 Rocky Mountain RM7: MSRP was 3200 bucks USD, Jr. T pro, Deore LX. that in today's dollars is 4300 USD. So I don't remember these "Humble old school days".....Good bikes were always expensive man.

 piece of shit A-Line was over 3 grand OUCH in 2007... my A50 thunderbolt was $2995 pre covid.

 I don't have to imagine it. I bought a 2020 C90 Slayer and love it. Best bike I've ever ridden.

 you'll get there. mine is sick.

 Imagine trashing an entire brand because of a less than perfect bike release. New altitude is fire, this bike is okay not great. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

 Ride-9 chip gives you 9 different positions. And with the flipchip on the chainstay, you actually get 18 different positions.

 from the looks of it, the square has another small square inside it. I can't be bothered to do the math but I guess there are 9 different combinations for how these 2 fit

 Maybe that's a typo - there's 2 pieces to the ride9 thing meaning you can have 9 positions depending on the orientation of each.

 That's fairly light by todays weight standards.

 I mean, I've got a 30 lber that I take out for 5k ish vert days on the regular. It's really not that bad. Not setting any records but forsure doesn't stop you from having a good time over a lengthy ride.

 2020 carbon 50 was 30lbs, frame weight has gone up unsurprisingly. why make a trail bike heavier than the previous model is beyond me but i suspect it's to do with money

 @Tinshield: unfortunately thats the truth. Thankfully i've got a 21lb xc bike and 27lb trail bike

 @COBRI: I keep saying I’m going to build a light XC bike but then the trails are so nasty around here I’m not sure I’d reach for it much.