Review: 2023 Santa Cruz Nomad - Yes, It's Very Good

Nov 23, 2022 at 9:32
by Mike Kazimer  
There's been no shortage of new bike launches from Santa Cruz this year – nearly every model in their lineup received at least some update, typically in the form of in-frame storage and slight geometry tweaks. The Nomad's revisions were a little more substantial, thanks to the change to a 29” front wheel.

Version 6.0 still keeps the 170mm of front and rear travel that was present on its predecessor, but it's grown a touch slacker and a little longer for this iteration. Carbon is the only frame material available, in one of two flavors – CC or C. The CC models are lighter than their C counterparts, which not surprisingly comes with a higher price. Both frame options are said to have the same strength and stiffness, and both come with a lifetime warranty.
Nomad 6 Details

• Wheel size: 29" front / 27.5" rear
• Travel: 170mm
• C & CC carbon frames
• 63.5º head angle (low)
• 77.6º seat tube angle (size L, low)
• 444mm chainstays (size L, low)
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL, XXL
• Weight: 33.5 lb / 15.2 kg (size L, X01 AXS RSV)
• Price: $11,199 USD
santacruzbicycles.com

There are a total of 10 complete bikes in the Nomad range, with prices starting at $5,649 USD and going all the way up to $11,119 USD for the model reviewed here, the X01 AXS RSV build kit. No matter how you look at it, Santa Cruz's current prices are on the higher end of the spectrum, and there's not really a model that could be considered budget-friendly.



bigquotesWith the new Nomad, it's a story of continual refinements, and this is easily the best version yet. Mike Kazimer




Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review


Frame Details

Santa Cruz's prices may be high, but there's no denying that the frame features are very well executed. The new Nomad ticks all the boxes when it comes to what you'd expect to find on a frame at this pricepoint – there's internal tube-in-tube cable routing, universal derailleur hanger compatibility, room for longer travel dropper posts, plus generous chainstay and downtube protection. It's also great to see a bashguard come as a stock option – smashing the teeth off an expensive chainring is never a good time.

The frame uses a 230 x 65mm shock, and is compatible with air or coil options. One thing the frame isn't compatible with is a dual crown fork – it's not built to withstand the side impact loads that can arise during a crash with a dual crown. You can run a 180mm single crown fork though, which should be enough travel to fulfill the needs of most freeriders.

Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review
Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review
The Nomad now has plenty of room for storing snacks and spares inside the frame.


Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review
A flip chip for the most sensitive of riders provides a .3-degree head angle adjustment and 3mm BB height change.
Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review
A shuttle guard and a downtube protector help keep the carbon frame safe.




Geometry & Sizing

As I mentioned, the Nomad is a little longer and slacker than before, but not by much. In the low setting the head angle now sits at 63.5-degrees, or it can be raised a smidge to 63.8-degrees by changing the orientation of the flip chip at the rear shock mount.

The chainstay length has increased by approximately 8mm compared to the previous version, and now ranges from 439 to 450mm depending on the size (sizes run from S to XXL). The size large I tested has a reach of 472mm, 443.8mm chainstays, and a 77.6-degree seat angle.


Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review

Suspension Design

Santa Cruz decreased the Nomad's initial leverage rate slightly, along with lowering the amount of progression and anti-squat, alterations that were done to give the bike a more consistent feel throughout the entirety of its travel. Other than those changes the basic layout of the VPP design remains the same - two counter-rotating links connect the swingarm to the front triangle. There's a grease port on the lower link for quick maintenance, and Santa Cruz offers a free lifetime replacement program for all of the bearings.


Specifications
Price $11199
Travel 170mm
Rear Shock Fox Float X2 Factory 2-Position lever
Fork FOX 38 Float Factory, 170mm
Headset Cane Creek 40 IS Integrated Headset
Cassette SRAM XG1295 Eagle, 12spd, 10-50t
Crankarms SRAM X1 Eagle Carbon DUB 32t
Chainguide OneUp Bash Guide
Rear Derailleur SRAM X01 Eagle AXS, 12spd
Chain SRAM X01 Eagle, 12spd
Shifter Pods SRAM GX AXS Controller
Handlebar Santa Cruz 35 Carbon Bar, 800mm, 35mm Rise
Stem Burgtec Enduro MK3, 42mm
Grips Santa Cruz Bicycles House Grips
Brakes SRAM Code RSC
Wheelset Reserve 30|HD carbon
Hubs i9 1/1
Tires Maxxis Assegai 29"x2.5" 3C MaxxGrip, EXO+ / Maxxis Minion DHR II 27.5"x2.4", 3C MaxxTerra, EXO+
Seat WTB Silverado Medium Ti
Seatpost RockShox Reverb Stealth



Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review










Test Bike Setup

The majority of the Nomad's cockpit components were a perfect fit for my height and preferences. Other than trimming the bars down to 780mm I didn't need to make any changes at the front of the bike – the 35mm rise bars and 40mm stem are exactly in line with what I'd run on a personal bike.

As testing progressed I did end up swapping the 175mm RockShox Reverb post for a different post with 200mm of drop. 175mm is fine in most cases, but on extra-steep trails I want my seat as far out of the way as possible. I do wish the size large Nomad came with a post with more drop, and if it was cable-actuated with adjustable travel that'd be even better in my book.

The final change that I made was to the tires – I swapped out the Maxxis EXO+ casing tires for a set with a DoubleDown casing, knowing that there were lots of Whistler laps in this bike's future. That swap added ½ pound to the total weight, a penalty I'm more than happy to take for increased peace of mind. It's interesting to see that the coil-shock versions of the Nomad come with DoubleDown casing tires, and the air-shock equipped ones don't. At the very least, I wish all the models came with a DoubleDown rear tire.


Me.
Mike Kazimer
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Height: 5'11" / 180cm
Inseam: 33" / 84cm
Weight: 160 lbs / 72.6 kg
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @mikekazimer

As for suspension settings, Santa Cruz's recommended settings provide a great starting point. I settled on 185 psi in the Float X2 for 19mm / 29% sag, and 83 psi with one volume spacer in the Fox 38 fork.



Climbing

Compared to the Megatower, the Nomad's smaller rear wheel doesn't give it quite the same roll-over-ability, and when it comes to pure uphill speed I'd give the Megatower a slight edge. The Nomad's no slouch though, and the trifecta of a slack head angle, moderately long chainstays, and a relatively steep seat tube angle helps create a very centered, balanced climbing position. That sense of balance means there's no need to make dramatic weight shifts to maintain rear wheel traction.

It's not exactly a bike that encourages out-of-the saddle sprinting while climbing (after all, we're talking about a 170mm bike with DH-oriented geometry), but it's a very calm, composed climber; I never felt like I was struggling to get around tight turns or up rooty steps. The Nomad hides its 170mm of travel well on the climbs, and while it's not going to be the bike to choose if all of your rides are rolling XC laps, it's certainly manageable on rides that don't totally peg that gnar-o-meter.

When it comes to efficiency, there is a little bit of shock movement, but I really only reached for that climb lever on paved road climbs – off-road, I kept it in the open position to maximize the amount of rear wheel traction. Santa Cruz has been reducing the amount of anti-squat over the last few years, honing in on the sweet spot between grip and efficiency. Too little and a bike can become a wallowy mess, and too much and it can feel overly harsh. With the Nomad, I'd say they've found the sweet spot – the shock moves when it needs to, but there was never a distracting amount of motion.


Descending

It might not be the most visually exciting bike – there aren't any idler pulleys or crazy linkages to be seen – but wild designs don't always equate to better performance. With the new Nomad, it's a story of continual refinements, and this is easily the best version yet.

The previous generation Nomad felt like more of an all-mountain machine rather than a bike that wanted to be pushed to the ragged edge. It had plenty of travel and 27.5” wheels, but didn't quite instill the same level of confidence as version 6.0. The larger front wheel on the new Nomad certainly plays a part in that, as do the longer chainstays. There's less of a speed limit - if anything, the faster you go the more alive the Nomad feels.

The reach of the Nomad is a touch shorter than some other bikes in this category at 472mm for a size L in the low setting, but that never felt like an issue, especially considering the slack head angle and moderately long chainstays. I've said it before, but the race to have the longest possible reach seems to have slowed, and in this case the Nomad's numbers equate to a bike that's easy to stick into corners or tight, awkward maneuvers while also retaining its composure when bombing down a steep straightline.

The Nomad's rear suspension provides a supportive platform that leaves enough millimeters of squish in reserve for sudden bigger hits, while also making it possible to get the bike airborne without feeling like you're getting sucked into a waterbed.

As for the mixed wheel setup, I'm a fan, especially on a longer travel bike like this. That smaller wheel is further out of the way on the steeps, which broadens the range of body positions available while descending – getting lower helps add more stability, and makes it easy to carve the bike from side to side on loose trails to control speed.

Racing the Nomad

I raced the EWS 100 in Whistler over the summer in order to see how the Nomad would handle between the tape, and came away very happy with its performance, and medium-happy with mine. The tracks were steep and rough, with plenty of sections that required staying light on the bike to avoid wheel-sucking holes, or to maneuver around a sudden sharp turn.

The whole mixed-wheel vs. 29 debate will likely never end, and at the end of the day I'd say it really comes down to personal preference, and on the track. On a slightly flatter, more pedally course I could see a full 29” bike having a slight advantage, but on steeper tracks that require more aggressive bike maneuvering the mixed-wheel setup definitely has merit. All this is to say that the Nomad can certainly be used as a race bike if you're so inclined, especially if the course is steep and rough.



Santa Cruz Nomad V6
Canyon Torque


How Does It Compare?

Earlier this year I reviewed the Canyon Torque, another 170mm mixed-wheel machine that falls into a similar category as the Nomad. The travel amounts are the same between the two carbon bikes, but there are also significant differences, and not just when it comes to price.

The Torque has a 490mm reach that's paired with 435mm chainstays, numbers that I found made it feel less balanced than the Nomad. I felt more centered on the Nomad, where on the Torque the sensation of having a lot of bike in front of you and not as much out back was noticeable. The short chainstays do make the Torque a lot of fun in a bike park setting, or anywhere that blasting jumps and throwing speed wheelies takes priority. The Torque has 5mm more rear travel than the Nomad, and it's a little more eager to use that travel too – there's not quite as much support, or at least not on the coil-shock equipped version I tested, which makes it ride deeper into its travel.

As for price, the Torque handily wins that battle thanks to Canyon's consumer direct model. The Torque CF8 is $5,399 with a Shimano XT drivetrain and Fox Performance Elite suspension, which is $250 less than Santa Cruz's base model, SRAM NX model. The Nomad's frame does have a few details that the Torque is lacking, like room for a large water bottle and in-frame storage.

What about comparing the Nomad to the Megatower, its 29” wheeled stablemate? Well, where the Megatower never felt like it was taking the edge off repeated hits quite as well as I wanted, the Nomad's extra bit of travel, smaller rear wheel, and slightly different kinematics seem to have done the trick. They look very similar on paper (and in real life - they share the same front triangle), but the Nomad is the one that won me over – the Megatower's ride feel was a little harsh at times, and it seemed to take more effort to hang onto.


Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review
The 40mm stem and 35mm rise bars made for a great fit.
Santa Cruz Nomad V6 review
A longer travel dropper on the size large would have been useful.

Technical Report


Frame / bearing durability: This Nomad hasn't had an easy life so far. I had one fairly substantial crash in Whistler where I laid the bike down into a pile of rocks and loose dirt at a high rate of speed. A chunk of paint was removed from the top tube, but carbon itself survived, and it's held up to plenty of additional abuse since that spill. I pulled the link to check the bearings, and they're all still spinning smoothly. If they weren't, Santa Cruz offers a lifetime free bearing replacement program.

One frame feature that I wish was a little different is the flip chip. Realistically, I think Santa Cruz could get rid of it entirely and there wouldn't be too many complaints. Barring that, it's a bit tricky to swap the position of the chips without dropping anything – the driveside chip seems to always want to escape.

Fox Float X2: The Nomad's shock developed inconsistent rebound damping after a handful of rides due to aeration, which Fox fixed via a full rebuild and new seals. It's certainly not something that you'd want to happen on any bike, especially one in this price bracket. It does seem as if there has been an uptick in X2 issues lately, although I haven't heard any definitive answer as to the reason why.

Reserve Carbon wheels: I haven't had to touch the Reserve wheels, and that's saying something considering how many bike park laps they were subjected to. I also haven't had any flats (knock on wood), and that's with DoubleDown tires and no inserts at tire pressures in the low 20s.

Noise notes: The Nomad's a fairly quiet bike, although it's not quite as silent as the new Yeti SB160. Some of that may be from the oversized tube diameters - if anything's rattling it gets amplified by the frame. In this case, it was the AXS derailleur that was causing most of the noise. The clutch wasn't as loose as we've seen on other occasions, but it wasn't that strong either, and it didn't keep the chain from flopping around as much as I would have liked.




Pros

+ Very well balanced geometry
+ Frame details are well executed, from the internal cable routing to the in-frame storage.
+ Excels in steep, rough terrain.

Cons

- High price of entry
- EXO+ tires and 175mm Reverb post don't quite match bike's capabilities




Pinkbike's Take

bigquotesThe new Nomad has a blend of predictable handling and stability at speed that makes it an extremely enjoyable bike. It's the bike I was on for my most memorable rides of the season, ones where I revisited committing lines that aren't always on the table for me, and successfully navigated challenging new trails. Sure, correlation isn't causation, but the fact that I ended up successfully pushing my limits on multiple occasions while on the Nomad seems worth a mention.

Is it expensive? You bet. Does it work very, very well? It sure does. Are there other bikes out there that offer a similar level of performance at a lower price? Possibly, but the Nomad does offer a level of refinement, both in construction and ride quality that isn't present across the board. 
Mike Kazimer








383 Comments

  • 295 10
 Ah, the perfect adjustability - 0.3 degrees
  • 117 7
 most useless flip chip in the market
  • 79 6
 they say on their website its more a kinematic adjust rather than a geo adjust, adds more progressivity in low
  • 13 8
 Yeah, that is a bit silly. I don’t mind flip chips as a feature, especially for bb height, but companies should actually make it useful. Minimum 6-7mm of adjustment.
  • 23 1
 @HMBA106: They are more for progression, It just comes with the fact it alters geo slightly.

Again, anther reason why progression in suspension is so important.
  • 59 1
 @Maxwrbike: Spot on. This is what makes the bike work well with air or coil suspension. Progressive chip position for coil shock (or very aggressive air riders) and more linear flip chip position for air shock. Got to understand the use here. I think it makes more sense then a position chip that most people just keep in low. Tuning progressiveness of a frame is a huge deal.
  • 3 0
 @cougar797: that's why the new trek is great. You get the best of both worlds in that regard. Adjustable progressiveness and geometry.
  • 4 5
 Good things I'm a boss like Boss Nass from Star Wars the Phantom Menace so I can afford this nbikey even though its expensive.

I liked the part where they say "There's been no shortage of new bike launches from Santa Cruz this year – nearly every model in their lineup received at least some update, typically in the form of in-frame storage and slight geometry tweaks. The Nomad's revisions were a little more substantial, thanks to the change to a 29” front wheel."

Take my moneyz sir! Thank, Carl
  • 13 5
 You need to spend $13k to get a full half degree.
  • 23 5
 If quiet spoken Kaz says this bike is special better listen people. Bike of the year?
  • 4 1
 @Maxwrbike: like how much does it really affect the progression though?
  • 11 1
 @SonofBovril: Around 0.3% i'd say.
  • 3 0
 Offset bushings still exist if you want to get nerdy!
  • 2 0
 @HMBA106: the amount of mm depends on the suspension. depending in leverage 1mm and 10mm could be the same. tbh i dont think their decision is bad, having used the bikes, even on their other bikes, the main change is progressivity. to make it another bike entirely i think its better to make another bike. we all end up in the same setting otherwise anyway.
  • 1 1
 @SonofBovril: enough to noticeably change the way the rear end feels. It's not a whole different bike but it's also not an insignificant.
  • 1 0
 flip cheap
  • 180 9
 Hmmm, such tough decisions these days, should I get the 2023 Santa Cruz Nomad for $11,200 or the 2023 KTM 300 XC for $11,100???


What financing rates are you guys getting on your bike loans???
  • 257 1
 I was fortunate enough to get personal loans from my parents and my wife's boyfriend.
  • 97 0
 @BigMulaCeazy: I didn’t even think about asking my wife’s boyfriends, but I feel kind of weird asking since I’m already raising their kids.
  • 10 1
 Well in CA Bay Area it’s really hard to take a day to go out and Moto. Everything is closing to motos for emissions, so definitely Nomad. Or maybe get a decent used car?
  • 34 1
 Add this to the equation: The KTM will be more reliable. Santa Cruz somehow specced this with the most failure-prone shock on the market and the most failure-prone dropper. Guarantee most owners of this bicycle will either blow out their X2 or have to replace their Reverb within six months, the KTM will be more reliable and depreciate less.
  • 5 2
 Does anyone know if you can order custom geo from zoceli bikes? They do a steel VPP thats probably a pound and a half heavier. Frame-only is $2800, which if you want the VPP design sounds like a great deal.
  • 12 2
 @ryanandrewrogers: these x2s are def failure prone. my transition spire came with one and just like every other one, it cracked, failed and lead to frustration.
  • 8 0
 BRAPP!
  • 1 2
 @thechunderdownunder: Ride on national forrest land. That said, it sucks nobody is allowing motos.
  • 3 4
 Easy decision Rad ebikes has a sale on right now.
  • 1 0
 @kingbike2: Yeah, maybe when i get a shed built I'll snag one for around here. Likely just buy land outside the state.
  • 2 0
 @mangochaos: I got some new seals from fox that are a different material. They work
  • 6 0
 Peaty ain’t cheap. Biker cleaner and his essential oils only pay half the billz.
  • 8 1
 @ryanandrewrogers: but the KTM doesn't fit a waterbottle and is lacking a glove box
  • 5 0
 @thechunderdownunder: Riding areas are closing to land development more so than emissions or wildlife habitat. We're loosing all kinds or trail access, motor and non-motorized. The KTM is still a better value.
  • 9 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: I have a 2019 KTM 250 XC-F. The 2023 is the same bike as was the 2017 before it. In the 4 model years I've owned my KTM I've owned three mountain bikes in an attempt to stay relevant. My 2022 Esker Rowl is already falling behind. I love Mountain Biking but the industry behind it is a sham.
  • 3 0
 @pistol2ne: I live in the Coconino NFS and we have developed and active Clubs, races and motorized trails. Motos are allowed in the USDA National Forest, but it takes getting organized and planning it out with forestry and land managers.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: Since they are garage style company, I bet they do custom. Just ask them.
  • 1 4
 you're getting a loan? just steal one and you won't pay a dime... if you don't get caught
  • 1 0
 @sonoranmtb: 1/1 hubs for 11k?
  • 1 0
 @thechunderdownunder: Sounds like it is time to get out of the Bay area.
  • 102 20
 To me at least Santa Cruz has become kinda boring great bikes. They all look the same boring colors and the build kits for the price are not that great. I think they hang their business on their legacy(which is no short list) I just miss the exciting Santa Cruz bikes of 5-10 yrs ago. I have a rune v3 now and I love that even in colorado springs I have yet to see another while I am riding. Santa Cruz seems to be on the back of all the taco bros
  • 13 8
 loving the head tube photo so people can be triggered or not triggered or triggered depending their preference for cable routing, its almost like they hammered it home
  • 1 0
 Interesting. Lower top tubes feel fun and because of that, bikes with a lower top tube do look fun. And because of that, I'd prefer their newer models with the low shock and top tube over their older models.
  • 10 1
 I think it’s more than legacy. I can’t remember a bike where I have had more fun on than my 22 Bronson. I always demoed and didn’t love the old SC bikes. Other than pricing there bikes have been home runs for me lately. As for looks, I can’t tell the difference between any of them. I constantly ID them wrong on the trails in SC, CA…
  • 4 2
 @thechunderdownunder:
I ride a 2022 Tallboy and agree with every, single, word you wrote here..!
  • 31 13
 I agree with the boring, but will push back against the "great." Their bikes are fine, I guess, in a vacuum where you don't have to take price into account. But even in that fantasy world, there are 10 other companies making bikes that do everything that the SC bikes do just as good or better. Once you come out of the fantasy world, the pricing diminishes all the things that their bikes do well, and really calls into focus everything mediocre about them.
  • 2 4
 @Compositepro: Triggered.
  • 3 0
 Ironically in the Inland NW, all you see is Santa Cruz or Transition.
  • 7 25
flag sanchofula (Nov 28, 2022 at 9:10) (Below Threshold)
 "... it's boring."

So's your sister, but someone had to marry her Wink
  • 4 0
 @thechunderdownunder: Sold my 22 Bronson cause I have an ebike in the shed. Should have sold the ebike...
  • 2 0
 Miss when Santa had the coolest downtubes in the game in terms of finish. Had a '17 hightower that my sister rides these days and it's still a great looking bike. Upforked it's still a pretty good bike especially since my sister uses it more for xc stuff.
  • 3 2
 @Compositepro: Talking seriously now, what shortcoming could that cable entry possibly have in comparison with whatever? I mean, on top of anything else, you can even stick your fingers inside the head tube and route the cable by hand. It's simply and plainly the way to do it.
  • 9 0
 I agree. I even wonder if the average rider would truly have more fun on this newest Nomad or on the iconic 2014 version with 65 degree head angle, shorter reach and wheelbase, 650b wheels, 13kg weight...
  • 3 1
 @DavidGuerra: you need to find someone serious to have that conversation with
  • 1 0
 @gbones: it’s a bike I won’t let go of anytime soon.
  • 14 1
 @adamszymkowicz: I was ambivalent towards Santa Cruz (they always been outside what I consider to be a reasonable amount to pay for a bike). However, my son bought a megatower and punished it for 2 years from the day he bought it, including many, many days at the Whistler and Coast Gravity bike parks riding the big pro lines. He has also ridden the toughest trails all over Squamish (e.g. the big drop on Hot Tuna), Whistler, Sunshine Coast and the North Shore. I have been extremely impressed with how well its held up, as well its fit and finish. It is a very well put together, robust frame and still looks good.
  • 5 3
 @adamszymkowicz: lol have you tried ten other bikes from 10 other brands to compare to this years Nomad? If not, I’m not sure how you make a statement like that. I definitely am not saying that the way their bikes ride justifies the dollars for everyone, but your statement seems a little generalized.
  • 5 1
 I agree. Read this glowing review and thought, “Too bad they didn’t even paint it a nice color.” In the end, it’s not what matters most, but they missed an opportunity. If I’m paying 11k, I want the whole package, and that includes a nice looking bike. At least no thieving eyes will be drawn to it for any particular reason.
  • 3 1
 @thechunderdownunder: Totally agree! I love my 22’ Bronson, by far the funnest bike I’ve ever owned or even ridden.
  • 2 0
 @DavidGuerra: I'll tell you. If you run your rear brake on the left, it means you lose the strain relief effect of the hose running around the headset by having to route it on the drive side. The hose also eats into your frame.
  • 11 1
 @stuie321: agreed.
I’ve owned alot of different bikes over the past 27years. My megatower v1 is probably the only one to feel as fresh as the day I bought it (with good preventative maintenance practices of course). Nothing on the frame has come loose, rattled or creaked over the 2 1/2 seasons I’ve been riding it. From 3000’ vert shuttles, 15’+ drops, big jump trails, bike park laps… it just keeps on running like a rolex.
That being said the most recent price hikes are beginning to look tougher and tougher to justify, even being a huge fan; If i were to buy the same build option for a MY22 V3 megatower it would cost me over $1500 more at my LBS than I paid for mine.. and one would think now that they’re using identical front triangles across some models that it would cut production costs quite a bit.. but what do I know
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: If you are running the rear brake on the left, either the rear brake hose or the seatpost cable will have to enter the frame on the same side from which they come, which is not ideal. But I don't see how having the hose/cable entries further back in the frame helps with this, in fact I think it's worse because the cable/hose will rub in the frame more. And having the entries higher (on the headset) is the same as having them lower as in this bike, both regarding the brake lever switch problem and the aesthetics/clutter aspect. This is to say, I don't get what you mean, and I don't know what other configuration would be better for the problem you mention. Or do the hose/cable entries rotate with the handlebar when the upper headset is the point of entry? In that case I concede there might be an advantage.
  • 29 4
 Santa Cruz sells a $h1t ton of bikes. Someone, somewhere is buying them. Can we please, pretty please get past "SC bikes are so expensive" conversation and actually talk about their bikes? I like SC bikes. Like the looks, like the paint schemes(most of them anyway), like the ride, like the warranty. I'm ok paying more for them. If you don't like their bikes or their prices, I respect that too. I've had great success with the brand over the years. Guess I'm a fan boi......and that's ok too!! Queue up the downvotes!!
  • 5 1
 @sofakingwetarded: or just possibly let the people who air their thoughts to do that too
  • 1 0
 @gbones: Why?
  • 3 0
 @sofakingwetarded: feel the same about Rocky Mountain.
  • 2 4
 @adamszymkowicz:
I was in the market for a bike about eight years ago, rode everything I could, and the Santa Cruz tallboy was a complete stand out for me. Felt more like my motocross bike than anything else out there. Recently, a buddy of mine was riding a lot of bikes, because of travel and rentals. He was done with modern geometry, ready to keep his old Trek Slash forever, until he wrote a mega tower!
There is something about Santa Cruz Bikes, I would summit up as just not very fun.
  • 3 1
 It's a sign that they have the "perfect bike". Every update is small adjustments and tweaks instead of huge redesigned builds like Intense or some other companies still trying to figure it out.
  • 1 0
 Got a Prime v3, feel all unique myself until another person says Oh I used to have a Giant, maestro suspension ftw
  • 1 0
 @jimmyconnors: giant bikes look different (and better) compared to Banshees IMO but still love my Spitfire v3
  • 1 0
 @thustlewhumber: mostly transition and specialized here
  • 5 0
 @thechunderdownunder: I owned a handful of bikes throughout the pandemic and the V4 Bronson (very similar to the Nomad with a bit less travel and a touch less slack) won out hands down. Honestly I didn't want to like it, but the SC bike just simply performed better than the others by quite a bit.
  • 3 0
 @mprett1:
When it comes to my Tallboy, I’d say the hype is real- it’s the downhiller’s XC bike..
I ride it like I did my MX bike- aim for the peak of rocks and get off the brakes!
Santa Cruz bikes seem to smash rather than “pop”. I think of it as a preference rather than a good or bad thing.
  • 3 1
 @sofakingwetarded:
I’m on a 2021 Tallboy frame because SC replaced my 2015 frame for a bad threaded insert. For free.
I was riding a berm track that was paved(!) and I messed up big- too much speed and went airborne sideways into the next one.. This should have been a nasty high side, instead that bike stuck, and shot right down to the next one.
Not even a shake. I don’t want another brand of bike..
  • 4 8
flag skywalkdontrun (Nov 30, 2022 at 5:31) (Below Threshold)
 @thechunderdownunder: Let's see. I've spent time on a Stumpy Evo (my bike) an Enduro, a couple weeks on a new Fuel EX and a Slash, got a few rides on a Revel Rail, a Norco Range, a Sight, a GG Smash for a few hours, and a buddy of mine has a Transition Spire and a YT Capra that I've ridden a few times each, as well as riding the full SC fleet through my shop. Every single bike I mentioned is at worst on par with anything that SC produces, and most of them are worlds better.
  • 3 3
 @stuie321: Listen, if they cost 25% less they'd be fine. In my experience I've seen a lot of premature bearing failures due to the VPP suspension layout, and a lot of cracked swingarms, but I recognize that in a vacuum they're decent bikes. Seems like your son has gotten lucky with his bike holding up to the abuse, and that's great. Hope he's got the 12k to replace it.
  • 1 3
 @Untgrad: I really don't understand the point you're trying to make.
  • 2 0
 Sounds like everybody is happy, which is good. It is always better if you feel the bike you own is better than the bike you don't own than the other way around.
  • 2 2
 @adamszymkowicz:
Well, I’m trying to stay objective, rather than just throw out yet another opinion.
I’ve ridden motorized racing machinery all my life, and I never will make peace with bicycles. I owned a BMX bike for a few years and just gave up riding it. I sucked!
I judge a bike on how it works in an “oh shit moment”. That berm should have cartwheeled me off the planet! I haven’t owned a motocross bike that could keep it’s composure like that. Not even a swap!
This, is how I judge a bike..
  • 1 0
 @PhatBrett: wash your mouth out, I can't think of a more beautiful bike than a raw Banshee. And, cool bike you got there bud.
  • 3 1
 @adamszymkowicz: well I’m glad there are so many awesome bike brands making sick bikes. I have demoed a lot of bikes as well. As much as I don’t want to spend money with SC I think it was the best riding bike for me.
  • 1 6
flag skywalkdontrun (Dec 1, 2022 at 7:49) (Below Threshold)
 @thechunderdownunder: Sorry you're so committed to getting ripped off.
  • 1 0
 Bronson v4 is my favorite as well
  • 1 0
 Maybe "refined" is a better word than "boring". It's like Audi. All their models look the same, and new versions of models only have minor changes compared to the previous.
There are cheaper cars that are more "exciting" and many cars that are cheaper and work just fine. However, they are really, really good cars.
  • 1 0
 @PaulBakker:
That sums it up. Perfectly. Doesn’t feel fast until you check the stopwatch!
  • 73 3
 How did the Reverb make it into the cons for being subjectively too short, but the Float X2 managed to get away with being objectively a faulty product?
  • 38 3
 I thought the reverb made the con's list because it too, is a faulty product
  • 22 2
 @waffleShirt, the Reverb is spec’d on all but one of the models, while the Float X2 isn’t as prevalent in the build kits. You’re right, though, that there seem to be more issues than usual with the X2 lately. I do like that shock, as long as it’s working properly.
  • 22 7
 Can someone remind me why there are a small faction of pinkbikers that hate X2's? I feel as if X2's are amongst the most popular shocks I see on my local trails and I've never had anyone complain about them in-person. I've had X2's on my last 2 builds, and most of my buddies run them also - I've had no issues whatsoever. Standard rebuild about once per season is all that's been required.
  • 22 0
 @KJP1230: Personally I have blown up every single X2 I've ever owned (3 now) at least once with the current models blowing up within the first couple of weeks of riding. Sometimes frame design comes into consideration with trunnion mounts putting stress on the shock. I'm no suspension expert but from my experience these shocks blow up more often than not especially when used in cold weather 45 degrees F. Almost without exception everyone I know that has had one has had to rebuild it at least once from a shock failure.
  • 16 0
 @KJP1230: Because if you have bought a new x2 in the past 12 months, it will be aerated by now. They are literally all failing, and it's not just a bad bleed. There is some mechanical issue with all new x2's.
  • 2 1
 @KJP1230: They're very prone to failures as a result of sideloading or buckling force. If you have a frame that only puts the shock under compressive loading they should work fine, unfortunately not too many frames actually do this, and still spec X2's, hence the high failure rate of X2's
  • 34 0
 @mikekazimer: That's a fair answer. I appreciate that you mentioned the issues at all, I think there needs to be more conversation around how a top tier product can have such wildly inconsistent reliability.

@KJP1230 I can only go on my own personal experience, but I was a suspension service tech for a few years and the Float X2 was one of, if not the most popular shock to come in for service. Part of that is because they are so prevalent, which is why you probably see them so much on your local trails, as they are part of a lot of complete bike builds. But the other side of it is that they just had so many problems on all the different revisions. You've been fortunate to have a rebuild once a year, but we saw a lot of customers needing rebuilds within weeks. Usually this was due to aeration of the damping oil and generally that seemed to be down to the main shaft seal not having adequate sealing. But we also had a streak of customers who had cracked damper bodies on the trunnion models. We couldn't ever definitively say if this was down to the excessive forces applied to trunnion mounts, but we also never saw the shocks come back with the same problem after we replaced the bodies, so we had suspicions of the bodies being over torqued at assembly time. Again, everyone has different experiences, but it was disappointing to see such an expensive product fail so regularly. For a long time the direct competitor was (and realistically still is) the Rockshox Super Deluxe, and we didn't see the same number of quality issues with those. That's not to say they were perfect, but they were my preference when recommending replacements.

Long story short, I dislike that a top tier shock has notable reliability issues after, what, 4 major revisions?
  • 7 15
flag littleskull99 (Nov 28, 2022 at 8:54) (Below Threshold)
 And yet the AXS didn't make it into cons even though it's a noisy piece of sheeet..
  • 23 6
 @THolmz: The shock I've been using on my hardtail the last two seasons has been faultless. Just sayin'
  • 3 0
 @gabriel-mission9: This ^

Every X2 I've had in the past has been reliable. The one I got 10 months ago doesn't like to hold air. Same story with almost everyone I know who's bought one in the last year. No issues with the Float X on the little bike
  • 2 0
 @littleskull99: I have been using AXS lately (GX and XX1). It seems to be about the same as my GX eagle set-up. Not really any better or worse - sound wise.

I did have a couple chain retention issues, however, that turned out to be the b-tension screw backing off on it's own. Once I loctited it, it was all fine.

I really like the thumb paddle for AXS.
  • 2 0
 @KJP1230: mine blew up in a week
  • 14 2
 Imagine spending $12k on a "boutique" bike knowing that you have to eat another grand to swap that X2 and Reverb (which no sane person would buy used) for a reliable shock and dropper. For that kind of money, I want a choice of coil and air options from Cane Creek, Ohlins, EXT, or Push. Many smaller brands are offering that at a more competitive price.
  • 2 0
 @Ososmash: yeah AXS works as well as regular eagle as far as im concerned, other than the battery swap and weight vs cable so its more of a matter of preference than "what is better". While I could see people who don't know how to setup their bike to want AXS (which is very easy to setup with no knowledge at all), I prefer the cable version due to price+weight. I hope whatever eagle updates SRAM makes in the future, they dont mess up the mechanical version to boost the wireless version sales, because it's honestly excellent.
  • 1 1
 @THolmz: Definitely have a lot more seals fail during colder weather due to the expansion and contraction of the rubber. That's a little different than the issues that so many people are reporting. I wonder if the change in viscosity of the oil in the damper system due to cold weather is the culprit?
  • 1 2
 Whoops, realized I've got a Float X.
  • 8 0
 @KJP1230: @KJP1230: @KJP1230: I bought the mechanical X01 version of this exact bike, and my X2 was blown out of the box...standing oil all over the shock and frame, and a non functional, squelchy damper.

Shoutout to Santa Cruz for helping expedite a solution rather than making me waiting for a Fox service. The replacement feels awesome, but now I'm just keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't blow again.

Also, my XL came with a 210mm OneUp dropper (I'm assuming they ran out of Reverbs), and I'm stoked!
  • 2 1
 @KJP1230: x2 succ
  • 3 0
 @KJP1230: Under normal use, repair and frequent rebuilds are very likely. Under hard riding, which the X2 should be built to handle, failure is entirely guaranteed and unavoidable. It might be the most faulty suspension product on the market.
  • 3 0
 The 2022 X2 on my Enduro was super aerated out of the box, had it rebuilt and it felt great for a few months until it got aerated again, the next rebuild it came back and felt nothing like it did after the first rebuild, it is harsher and the rebound seems way too fast at full close. But its not aerated and the firm switch works so I don't think they will rebuild it again since it's not showing obvious problems other than ruining the bike's handling which they cant test. Never had a problem with trunion Rockshox and I also have a Float X which has been fine and feels infinitely better than the shit Fox gave me.
  • 3 0
 @KJP1230: I know someone who went through three in one weekend (his own, then a take-off from a friend's bike, then another take-off from another friend. Finished the weekend on a loaner (RS SD coil) from the shop where things were getting rebuilt. Absolutely ridiculous.
  • 1 1
 Fox has a new seal kit for the X2 that is suppose to address these issues. My understanding is when you send the shock in for service they'll retrofit with the new kit.
  • 3 0
 @Samo831: There are many more issues with the X2 than a mere seal kit can solve, I know someone with the retrofit who just blew out their X2, for the third time, a week ago. The seal kit addresses the oil aeration issue, but not the cracking damper bodies or inner air sleeves that fail in cold weather.

It is a piece of crap, I couldn't possibly recommend anyone attempt to fix it, even Fox themselves are struggling with enormous repair wait times. Just get a shock that won't waste your time blowing itself up.
  • 4 6
 The reverb is much more of a faulty product than the X2.
  • 2 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: yea to add to this, I bought a used X2 (mistake). I got it serviced right away, it was a good deal even factoring in an immediate service. However first ride back it developed a knocking noise. Fox said they are 'working on a fix' and it would be hard to resolve the knock, and they are struggling with the X2 at the moment.

Probably won't run it again, just sitting in a box by my desk.
  • 3 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: I believed you up until you said they have enormous repair wait times. I just sent my x2 in last Monday and had it back on Friday. I didn't even miss a weekend.

It did need the complete gambit of a new damper, tube, and seals though. And I'm sure it will happen again soon
  • 1 0
 @KJP1230: Sometimes they last me less than a month before exploding. I went 2 weeks on a dhx2 last year, 1 month before that, and about 4 months on the X2. All within a year, all under warranty, but then no biking...I won't own a fox x2 series without a backup shock. Literally anything else. I actually kinda like the float x, but usually spring for an ext.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: have you asked For for a position or response on this? There's enough people on here with a negative experience with the Fox X2 shock to warrant an explanation.
  • 20 1
 Poor reliability of Float X2s has been an issue for just about as long as the shock has been around (I had failures on 2017 and 2018 models got maybe 20-30 hours per rebuild).

I was just thinking the other day when I was rebuilding my sisters failed 2020 float X2 about how bike media seem to pretend this (and other issues with other products) issue doesn't actually exist. The fact that this is being just mentioned now by Kaz really highlights how bad the problem has become.

Some other examples:
Fox CTD dampers that almost killed people, media really only admitted they were garbage after new fit damper was released

Shimano wandering bite point (literally ignored for 5+ years before media started admitting this was an issue)

Sram Eagle-chain riding up on biggest cogs of cassette (only noted 2-3 years after eagles introduction)

Maxxis Exo+ casing tires that died rampantly by pinch flats on the rim (only ever noted AFTER the new EXO+ revision came out this year, also will note these tires were used and likely died frequently within all of field tests as control tires with no mention of their reliability issues)

Shimano 12spd clutch failures (known issue rarely mentioned)

etc.

etc.

etc.

One could argue that some of these issues may not have been picked up during a short-term bike test or review. But, having experienced all of the above, I can tell you that they were all readily apparent rather quickly and thus sugar coating and ignoring issues with products is one of the most ubiquitous problems with Mtn bike media (quite frankly this has been happening since the 90s)
  • 1 0
 @ppp9911: Fully agree on this. It's pretty insane that it's not more publicized.
  • 8 2
 @andrewfif: This because the bike media model of operation, when your life depend on commercials you simply cannot be too harsh. Currently only Paul Aston makes 100% independent reviews, one single person, insane isn't it?
  • 5 0
 I've long thought that the fox marketing team has a bigger budget than the development team.
  • 2 0
 @Ososmash: I recently sold both of my AXS setups (GX and XX1). I enjoyed the easy setup and adjustments, and the shifting performance… as well as one less cable. HOWEVER… the chain slap and noise was just unbearable and was the only reason I sold and went back to mechanical. I’ll revisit AXS on the next gen to see if they take care of the clutch weakness
  • 3 3
 @pistol2ne: Yeah, but the reverb doesn't fundamentally affect the way a bike rides.
  • 2 0
 @DCF: Perhaps not right now but during just this last Summer I had a buddy loaning one of my bikes for a month waiting on his X2 back. Your quick repair probably got something to do with it being snowy outside haha
  • 2 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: Usually takes me at least a month, that dude was super lucky. Over covid summer I know a few folks didn't have shocks for a couple of months at least.
  • 3 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: I think it’s chilled out now, I’ve had 2 shocks serviced by fox in Nevada recently both were out and back in a week. But last summer I was being told a month wait
  • 4 1
 @adamszymkowicz: a failed 175mm seat post does, much more than a shock that is prone to failure. Anyway, I've been fortunate with the X2 I've used. Regardless, if it's a problem, why spec it. Also stop, for the love of god, stop using the reverb.
  • 3 0
 if an x2 explodes on the trail and no one sees it, did it really happen.....shrodingers fox at work
  • 2 0
 @KJP1230: THEY FAIL ALL THE TIME!
  • 40 1
 The Megatower and the Nomad share the same front triangle? Shouldn't that make them less expensive?
  • 75 0
 This is less expensive for SC
  • 63 1
 No, it makes it higher margin
  • 4 13
flag rockandride6 (Nov 28, 2022 at 11:19) (Below Threshold)
 @BillT999: Or it makes it so they can do things like size-specific carbon layup without raising the price.
  • 32 1
 Santa Cruz is very concerned about the price of its products and working towards raising them, apologies for the misunderstanding.
  • 25 3
 This is the kind of review that bikes as pricey as SC should get. SC gets a lot of flak here, and it is generally semi justified. Based on a lot of SC reviews, you can get a similar performing bike for less $$$, or a more boutique bike for the same money, so a bike being rated "pretty good" is just not enough, despite any lifetime warranty.

It's kinda like selling BMWs. You pay a premium for an M3 over a similar performing Camero/Mustang, so an M3 can't just be "nice". It has to have some sort of special sauce other cars don't, and accoridng to this review the Nomad has it.
  • 24 3
 But BMWs don't come with indictors?
  • 15 3
 Funny, I got a different read of the article. To me this read as "Yep, it's a very good bike" - which absolutely does not justify the price. There are many, many bikes in this category that are "very good" - and a select few that seem to rise to the level of legendary. Unfortunately for Santa Cruz, some of the better reviewed bikes are quite a bit less expensive as either a build or a frame.
  • 35 1
 Yes, this line is telling:

"The Torque CF8 is $5,399 with a Shimano XT drivetrain and Fox Performance Elite suspension, which is $250 less than Santa Cruz's base model, SRAM NX model"

And that bike has a Zeb R and Super Deluxe Select... The comparable Santa Cruz spec is over $1000 more and you still don't even get the same level of suspension. This is against a direct sales brand, but there are lots of non direct sales brands offering substantially more value for the dollar.

And yes, exactly... if I'm going to spend $1000+ more than a comparable bike, then it better be a f*cking amazing bike.... but I've done 3 day demo's each on the megatower and hightower, yes they were very good bikes but their performance doesn't beat out most other bikes at this level, in fact there were times where I didn't get along with Santa Cruz's suspension design. That design is also annoying to clean and keep properly maintained.

I think part of the problem is that mountain bike suspension has kind of reached a point where it's pretty easy to develop a really really good bike these days. So if you're going to charge me $1000+ more for your bike... there better be a very, very good reason. I just don't see it with Santa Cruz.
  • 6 18
flag withdignityifnotalacrity (Nov 28, 2022 at 9:34) (Below Threshold)
 The unfortunate reality is that sometimes the really expensive stuff really is THAT good.
  • 24 0
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: The actual unfortunate reality is that most of the time the really expensive stuff isn't any better.

Good marketing is a powerful thing... staying objective is hard and then self justifying your own terrible choices is very, very easy.
  • 6 1
 Panty dropping M power is the difference.. and carbon roof, carbon brakes, forged motor, etc etc..LZ1 is a track car also but the refinement and experience is worth more.
  • 10 3
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: But not this one. Santa Cruz doesn't in any way justify its price. At least Yeti does something different with Switch Infinity (even if it's a gimmick, and still doesn't make their bikes worth it) but RM and SC are literally asking you to pay 25% more for no benefit.
  • 6 1
 @Compositepro: They have indicators, but the sales guy convinces all the owners they're automatic for some reason. I reckon they think it's funny.
  • 7 8
 @islandforlife: If you've ever had to warranty a Santa Cruz bike (I have) or a D2C bike (I have, a YT) then that $1,000 price difference seems a relatively small price to pay for the support that you receive....be it parts support or warranty.
  • 28 0
 Where are all of you coming up with a $1,000 price difference between the Santa Cruz and comparable DTC brands?

The Canyon that is mentioned here is currently $4,899 and comes with full Shimano XT drivetrain, Fox Factory rear shock, and Fox Performance Elite (all you're missing is Kashima) fork. The closest comparable Santa Cruz Nomad is the $8499 GX AXS, which offers an inferior rear shock (Select+) and the Carbon C frame, although you do get a robot derailleur (otherwise, I'd say GX and XT fairly comparable).

To be clear, that is a $3,600 difference for very similar build kit bikes. The Santa Cruz is 173% the price of the Canyon.

Worried about warranty? Hell - if you get 1 season of riding in before you need to warranty, you can buy a second bike outright and come out roughly ahead financially.
  • 8 0
 They’d never paint a M3 “gloss gypsum.”
  • 4 13
flag Nellus (Nov 28, 2022 at 13:29) (Below Threshold)
 All you have to do is ride one. The VPP and it's tuning is the special-sauce and it tastes gooooooood.
  • 5 1
 @islandforlife: People forget that good marketing literally creates money out of thin air.
  • 3 4
 @islandforlife: I mean, ofcourse marketing has a job to do. And the key word is sometimes. But yes, sometimes the money really is spend on R&D and quality materials and good design, so the product costs more. Without knowing how each company spreads its expenses it's impossible to tell. That's why we go on these websites, read the reviews, take demo days, etc.
  • 4 1
 @adamszymkowicz: the Rocky Mountain does have a ton of adjustability in their overpriced enduro frame, and you can run a dual crown on it.
  • 6 0
 @KJP1230: For the price, you could do a dreambuild from the frame up, or you could get a DH bike and trail bike combo.
  • 3 0
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Then the engineers at Santa Cruz should be fired, because if the end result are bikes that cost thousands more for no real benefit.. someone royally f*cked up.
  • 40 15
 Looks like every other Santa Cruz kn the last 5 years
  • 38 3
 Honestly, I don't really see how that's a bad thing. They have a distinct look and style, I think it looks great, why change it just for the sake of changing it.
  • 19 0
 You think? With the 8mm longer chain stays I wouldn't have recognized it if it didn't say Santa Cruz on it.
  • 14 1
 You could say the same about Yeti... or Trek... the list could keep going
  • 10 0
 @misteraustin: Yeah. I don't really see the point of criticizing a successful company for sticking to the branding that brings in sales and reputation. To me the only major companies who's bikes have changed looks would be those that have redesigned a model to a high-pivot.
  • 18 0
 Like Porsche?
  • 2 3
 @connorjuliusjohnson: On Yeti I agree. The new sb160 is the only thing that's actually changed in the past three years. I still love my SB150 2020 and I tried a 160 and it felt the same. Trek has been changing it up with the fuel ex and the slash though. I feel Santa Cruz hasn't made an improvement since VPP
  • 3 0
 No, the length of the price tag has become langer and longer...
  • 3 0
 Form should follow function...and if the form keeps driving the best function, they'd be selling themselves...and their customers, short by changing it just to "look different" for the PB commenters.
  • 2 0
 @adamszymkowicz: It's "only" $1500 difference. Enduro Expert - $7000 USD. Nomad C GX AXS $8500 USD)
  • 6 1
 Making it look different just for the sake of not looking the same is just dumb thinking.

Santa Cruz has a basic layout that they've worked the kinks out of, and it's flexible enough in concept to tweak into different flavors.

I got a SantaCruz after riding a few bikes. Do I care one iota that the bike looks like other Santa Cruz models? Nope, not one bit.
  • 20 0
 I'd love to see the profit margins on Santa Cruz bikes. I've got to imagine they're making incredible amounts of money on 11k bikes - especially given their carbon frames are made at a Chinese factory that they apparently own.
  • 21 1
 I'd be really curious to know what they pay their employees in said Chinese factory and if it's more/less/comparable to other factories in China (or other Asian factories). I'm not in the market for a new bike and SC is definitely out of my range if I was looking, however I think if a bike company was actively working on improving the lives of their overseas factory workers (higher wages, better working environments, benefits, reasonable hours, etc), I'd be more inclined to support their business than a company that's just taking advantage of cheap labour.
  • 4 2
 @jsnfschr: don't take this as my defending SC manufacturing in the PRC, but they're probably paying more than Yeti, Ibis and many others are paying in Vietnam. The perennial race to the bottom continues. We'll see where they all move to next.
  • 12 0
 @jsnfschr: trust me, if they were doing anything positive like that, they'd be marketing to us about it
  • 3 0
 @jsnfschr: FWIW, they "don't provide salary info" on their listings for bike assembly jobs in California. Usually that means they pay as little as possible. If they don't want to pay a decent salary in the US, they sure as hell aren't in the PRC.
  • 2 0
 @Glory831Guy: think yeti pays min wage to their assemblers in near California priced Denver metro
  • 6 1
 @Glory831Guy: @brianpark I think PB has done a good job in highlighting companies that are made in Canada/US/Europe, but I think it would be super interesting if you did an article approaching companies to see what they are doing for their workers in PRC, Vietnam, etc. We talk about environmental causes and sustainability all the time, but are these companies doing anything to improve the lives of workers in parts of the world where there frequently reports of human rights violations and exploitation is a common occurrence. Does a $10-$15k bike from Yeti or SC mean that their people in PRC/Vietnam get paid more than other comparable manufacturing jobs? Do they get better hours? Do they have safer working conditions? Offer childcare and/or educational opportunities?
  • 1 1
 @jsnfschr: If anything they get more hours/ more steady work schedule. Pretty safe bet that pay/ benefits aren't great though. Companies only go overseas to cut cost, so why would they add logistical hurdles just to 'split the difference' on cost savings by creating cushy jobs abroad?
  • 2 1
 @Glory831Guy: I wouldn't expect "cushy jobs", but are they doing something? I'm interested in hearing what companies are doing to help the environment, but I'd (honestly) be even more interested in how these companies are helping those who are often exploited. I don't care how much company X is doing to help the environment if their employees in PRC/Vietnam/etc are building fames in sweatshops, breathing carbon dust all day or working 16 hour days. I don't expect they are, but it's not something that's ever discussed. Like, ever.
  • 1 0
 @jsnfschr: It's not discussed, like ever... Because they're all working in sweatshops. Pretty Naive to think otherwise..
  • 1 0
 @jsnfschr: You're a delusional optomist my man.. They're not doing jack didly to improve things over there. Guaranteed they would have a bike version of 'fair trade coffee' if they were.
  • 1 0
 @Glory831Guy: I'm not a delusional optimist and assume the stuff we use and ride is made in crappy conditions, but would love to hear otherwise and/or if there ARE any companies who are trying to do better.
  • 1 0
 @jsnfschr: Guerrilla Gravity and We Are One seem to be for starters, looks like Ibis may be following suit with the Exie for now. Clearly, making bikes (carbon frames anyway) in North America is an option, but it’s most likely not scalable for whatever megalocorp bought Santa Cruz.
  • 18 0
 it kinda bothers me that for a 11,000 USD+ bikes you still get some GX components and a dropper post too short. It's both asking the most money AND cutting corners for tiny cost savings, at the same time.

On the flip side im never buying a bike that expensive anyway I guess haha.
  • 19 4
 12k? wow that's really cheap ...you can get super bike with 1000cc and 16k rpms ...or almost new adventure motorbike...so what after 3-5 years we can probably hit 15-20k price?
but i am 100% wrong ,because this product are for people with money..and they really doesn't care about the price 8-10-12k its the same .
  • 5 0
 This. I bought a barely used Beta 430 RRS with 1500 miles for 6k
  • 5 0
 Yep, you're in TVR, classic car money at this point. A bike will fall like a stone, use your old bike and buy a car that'll make you some money!
  • 11 2
 @cunning-linguist: To be fair, the average Santa Cruz is probably more reliable than the best built TVR that ever rolled out of the factory.
  • 2 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: Given what seems to be going on with X2 I am not sure about that.
  • 4 1
 @93EXCivic: One component failing at a time is something TVR owners barely dare to dream about.
  • 19 2
 For almost $12k this thing better be the absolute best mountain bike on the planet, and be handmade by elves in a magical forest. Spoiler alert, it's not.
  • 5 1
 I paid a quarter of that for my last mountain bike. I keep a running tally of "cost per mile" on the thing, and I was almost at $0.50 a mile until I needed to replace the fork at 5,000 miles and splurged on a fancy one. Now I'm back to $0.75 per mile. That's on an 8-year-old bike, which is way longer than most folks seem to hang onto "old, outdated" things.
  • 8 2
 @pixelguru: nerd much?
  • 14 0
 I'm so glad that mountain bike geometry is stabilizing. I can look at new bike reviews and not feel like my 3 year old bike is outdated.
  • 9 0
 I had ordered a new Nomad frame after reading Kaz's initial report back in August. As of two weeks ago they still were not available and the guestimate delivery was until mid-December at best. I finally got my deposit back and bought a Specialized EVO frame which Kaz (and everyone) also had high praise for. I am sure the new Nomad is great, but I wanted to ride and I have a hard time believing that it's $1400 better than either the EVO or an Enduro. Certainly not worth that kind of wait.
  • 6 4
 Not sure about the Enduro, but the Nomad is significantly better than the Stumpjumper EVO on pretty much any downhill terrain (I also own a Stumpjumper EVO.) I've spent a good amount of time on the new Nomad and am absolutely in love with it but, like you, am getting super impatient with these damn lead times.
  • 3 0
 @RogerMexico: Like I said, I'm sure the N6 is great, but I'd guestimate yr getting 85-90% performance of the Nomad from an EVO. I am running mine with MX link which adds more progression and travel with a coil shock and progressive spring as well as a 170 Zeb up front. That last 10-15% improvement (or less) just was not worth the wait or cost for me.
  • 3 0
 @hellbelly: how do you like it set up in mullet format compared to full 29 (if you tried it with full 29)? Thanks!
  • 4 0
 @hellbelly: Yeah I dunno about that. Agree to disagree. I think the EVO is an exceptional trail bike but I had all sorts of issues with the rear suspension in particular. Have you had any issues running coil shocks on that yoke? I went through two of them (EXT and Fox) before accepting the fact that it's just not meant for it.
  • 3 0
 @Shanc: I've ridden my friends EVO that is a 29er and I think having mine in an MX set just makes more sense for me. I have short legs and I like that I can throw the bike around a bit better. My tall friend loves his 29er EVO so I think they are both good.

@RogerMexico I have not had any shock issues, but I am keeping a close eye on it. My aforementioned friend has an S-Works model and the carbon yoke cracked and he blew out the seal on his DHX2. He is a big guy though. I have an alloy yoke on mine and he actually replaced his with alloy as well. Neither of us have had any problems with them since. My shock set up is dumb simple being a Bomber CR with a MRP progressive spring. Not much to it and it feels super solid as well as plenty plush while not blowing through the travel and still having good pop.
  • 3 0
 @hellbelly: I have the same bike as your friend. You've really sparked my interest on swapping the carbon yoke for an alloy one. That makes a lot of sense.
  • 3 5
 I have had both the nomad and the evo stumpy. The evo stumpy is the better bike. Anyone who says different is being paid by SC or is a goon.
  • 2 2
 @padirt: the V6 nomad? The two bikes don’t even belong on the same trails.
  • 3 0
 @RogerMexico: If by "significantly better" you mean maybe a fraction of a second faster on the steepest and roughest junk imaginable I might agree, but the EVO can slice and dice in the tight stuff sooooo much better than the Nomad.
  • 1 0
 @adamszymkowicz: yup, that’s exactly what I meant.
  • 3 0
 @RogerMexico: I would put it to you that the better bike would be the one you can ride right now.
  • 2 0
 @drbino: That's a bingo! I am sure I would've had fun on the new Nomad, but after months of waiting I'd had enough. According to the shop I was dealing with the SC dealer site was down for more than a month so they had no way to check inventory/availability. Maybe they be available soon, but in the meantime I lost a lot of prime fall riding time. So far in my brief experience aboard my EVO it has been able to handle anything with as much composure as my previous bike an Evil Wreckoning V3. It's curious to me how differently they feel in terms of pedaling and descending through fast chop. Up until recently I never liked the way Horst-link bikes felt, however more recently many companies have made them so they don't feel like a gooey mess, but are still plush. I think adding a progressive spring or more progression in the shock is a big help.
  • 12 1
 Thanks for the concise review. Everything I needed to know was in the title!
  • 2 2
 www.dentalpost.net was on the back of the warranty card, maybe theres going to be a price increase on NX next year
  • 2 1
 Is it me or did the title change?
  • 2 0
 @hughlunnon: depends did you read it before or after
  • 3 3
 @hughlunnon: yes it changed. There was a mention like "very expensive". Would like to know the real story behind the withdrawal of it.
  • 3 6
 @vweb: @vweb: Santa Cruz called and had mike change it
  • 11 0
 @vweb, the title hasn’t changed at all - the URL is the same too. Maybe you looked at it on desktop, where you would have seen the “It’s also very expensive” tagline, and then on mobile, where the taglines don’t show up?
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: yep Mike, that's exactly that. The tagline "it's also very expensive". Was pretty sure it was part of the title, my bad.
  • 6 0
 I love my new V6 Nomad. Agree with everything Kaz wrote. The bike performs well in any situation, is extremely composed at speed, in the air, in the rough, and on tight trails. Certainly a fire road climber for me but does well on singletrack climbs too. I had it in the low setting to start and swapped it to the high setting. I honestly can tell the difference on the seat angle late into a climb, but it is very minimal. I don't notice a worse descending performance in the high. I also need to dial in my suspension fully but so far the bike just does what I want it to right away. The refinement from the V4 is noticeable and I really love the big front wheel. Pricey for sure but for me totally worth it, the bike makes me so stoked every time I ride it.
  • 8 2
 For fook's sake stop accepting top end review bikes. You are uniquely in a position to push back against this, do you?

And here's another way to look at the pricing:
Prices ranging from a brand new Honda CRF300L to a Beta 350 RR-S.
  • 2 0
 yeah my properly sized Large Norco reach was pathetic. waaaay to far.oops wrong comment replyd to
  • 7 1
 This will be buried in comments but here's my take. Santa Cruz bikes at a mid tier spec / price point are amazing, modern, dependable and solid bikes. Ride out your entry level parts and eventually replace them with what you really want. Lifetime bearings, crash replacement frames, cascade components options and fun paint that always looks better in person. Picking one up from the used market is about as safe a bet there will ever be in a used bike.

My 2018 Hightower V2 for example is still relevant with minimal upgrades from SC for 2022. Has two different cascade links available (mullet or longer travel). Pedals really well, descends everything within reason (can be upgraded or beefed up) is around 31lbs and rolls with new bearings every year. As of last week you could buy a brand new 2021 for $5000 on PB buy and sell and there are lots of used ones.

Should anyone ever buy a SC, Trek, Yeti for the sticker price of $12,000? Not unless your passion is affordable at that level. For anyone else the options around the mid tier are amazing pickups. Santa Cruz in particular are perfect in this market even if the name isn't as cool as it used to be.
  • 4 3
 If SC was priced along the same lines as Specialized or Trek it'd be much more palatable, but their bikes still aren't better.
  • 2 0
 @adamszymkowicz: Thanks for sharing. Ride what you like dawg.
  • 5 0
 "The chainstay length has increased by approximately 8mm compared to the previous version, and now ranges from 439 to 450mm depending on the size (sizes run from S to XXL). The size large I tested has a reach of 472mm, 443.8mm chainstays, and a 77.6-degree seat angle." @mikekazimer did you guys measure this or is this press release numbers?
  • 12 3
 Intense Tracer S is nearly identical, with better suspension, for ~$7k...
  • 2 1
 I like intense but one question didn’t intense lisence the vpp from sc? How would the suspension be different? Mabye a few tweaks there and there but it would be the same right
  • 3 0
 @Hg1: Correct. I was referring to the Ohlins coil and 38 fork on the Tracer S
  • 11 1
 Long Live 27.5
  • 5 0
 I actually like the 0.3˚ flip-chip. Gone are the days one bike is trying to be all-things to all-people. 0.3˚ seems like it’s trying to be the best version of itself. The only thing I would have done differently is offer a flip-chip that compensated for ⁺/₋ 10mm in fork travel which I’m told is ~0.5˚. That way riders can choose between a 170mm or 180mm fork and preserve the factory geometry and name it accordingly (‘170mm / 180mm’ versus ‘High / Low’).
  • 5 0
 I've had Fox X2 shocks on a range of bikes over time. They needed a service annually and never gave me grief generally. One trunnion mounted one had a crack develop and that needed replacing on my dollar. Fast forward to the latest version and it was aerated fresh out of the box. Warranty service and it did the same as soon as I got it back on the frame. Warranty replacement and that did the same inside 10 hours. Serviced again and sold it unridden with the frame. I'd had enough by then. How Fox haven't had class action lawsuit against them I don't know but I'll never buy another shock from them with my money. Criminally unreliable and expensive.
  • 5 0
 So the Nomad is a 170/170 Mullet... and the Megatower is a 170/165 29er. Are these bikes different enough to justifiably exist separately in the same product line? I.e. would it not make more sense to eliminate one of them and make sure the remaining model can be had as a mullet or 29"? As far as I can tell the geo chart is within +/- a mm here or there.
  • 4 0
 "Santa Cruz has been reducing the amount of anti-squat over the last few years"

I think more importantly they've decreased the _rate of change_ in anti-squat around the sag point. Bikes with low and consistent AS might squat, but they stay squatted and truck up stuff. With high and consistent AS, they "stand-up and go" up stuff. It's bikes with low and variable AS that start to feel wallowy, and high and variable AS is inch-wormy, unless you can pedal absolutely perfect circles (you can't).
  • 7 0
 $12k.... continuing to make the market for "used bikes" go through the roof.
  • 6 0
 Couple pretty awesome photos there Mike. Nice work to the photographer for actually capturing the steepness and exposure there and to you for making it look easy.
  • 5 1
 Features (or gimmicks) like in-frame storage are what companies use to justify premiums. If you reviewers keep listing them under (+) the other manufacturers will adapt (it's already happening) and their prices will increase, too. For a feature that many of us can do without if it means 500 money units less spent. Bikes are too expensive as is.
  • 2 1
 In frame storage is the bomb
  • 2 4
 Frame storage is as gimmicky as AXS. Both appear to be pointless. Until you try them, then you realize they're the bees knees.
  • 4 0
 I kinda thought SC was behind the game keeping their reach numbers reasonable. But after having owned lots of larger sz L bikes, I can say I'm back on the less is more... especially with the slacker front ends that move the wheel out. I think it was smart on their part to keep things long but not excessive.
  • 1 1
 yeah my properly sized Large Norco reach was pathetic. waaaay to far.
  • 6 0
 I love my Nomad V5. Gonna keep it for as long as I can. But I'm happy to see this new version is a great bike as well!
  • 6 0
 It's a real shame more people did not get to try the Nomad v5. It is such a fast 27.5 bike that is so energetic and responsive, easy to pick up and put down anywhere on the trail. Accelerates, climbs and generally pedals unbelievably well, it really is an easy handling all-mountain bike for chunky terrain. I will be riding mine for as long as I can too.
  • 2 0
 @FatTail: Couldn’t agree more! Every time I finish a ride I’m just so stoked on the bike and I’ve already had it for a year.
  • 7 0
 $11k and it’s not even an ebike.
  • 3 0
 I bought a Hightower C S right as the pandemic started. I paid $6,800.00 CAD. At the time that was a huge splurge. I sold a couple of bikes to afford it. I have made some slight changes to the what came stock (Renthal bars, upgraded brake levers, cascade components linkage etc) and I love the bike. This bike now with lesser specs is $8,949.00. As amazing as this bike is there is no way I would be able to justify paying the current price. If I was buying a bike today I would likely go for a YT.
  • 1 0
 Just read a review of the Vitus Escarpe, if you can get past the brand name looks like a pretty nice bike and price.
  • 1 1
 @OnTheRivet:https://vitusbikes.com/collections/sommet/products/vitus-sommet-29-crx-mountain-bike-2022
  • 3 0
 Maybe they are charging a premium so they can afford a top level enduro rider that can get some podium results. I can’t think of another brand with so many fanboys and so little success on the world stage. The V10 is a proven winner but their trail bikes have basically won nothing. The EWS is like 10 years old and SC have no results. Maybe the bikes aren’t as great as the massive amount of SC fanboys would have everyone believe.
  • 4 1
 having used the sc lifetime warranty, make sure you understand its actually limited lifetime warranty and to read their website.

they reserve the right to not replace your frame or components for _any_ reason and propose a deal instead (eg buy an older frame model from them at a discount).

basically all you really get is free bearings for life (which is nice) and warranty if you're lucky or big on instagram or something.

learned this the hard way, they recommended to warranty my frame then asked money anyway because i use another fork on it and they dont know how i ride the bike or the bike. heh.
  • 8 2
 It also only comes in mullet...
  • 14 20
flag NoahJ (Nov 28, 2022 at 8:05) (Below Threshold)
 27.5 is basically dead
  • 11 1
 @NoahJ: When will brands finally embrace that 26" wheels are the playful and poppy wheels, not 27.5
  • 18 1
 @NoahJ: i like 27.5, its alot better for my riding style
  • 12 0
 The flip chip should have allowed you to switch the front wheel to 27.5 without messing up the geo.
  • 7 0
 @vtracer: I think it would be hilarious, but also interesting for a brand to release a modern 26 inch full suspension mountain bike.
  • 1 0
 @vtracer: just built up a new bike out of an old on one 456 evo frame. Built it up rigid 69er this time. It's sooooo good.
  • 5 0
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Banshee Spitfire says hi.
  • 4 3
 full on 275 bikes don't sell... if they did, you would see them on the sales floor.
  • 3 0
 @vitaflo: Ha, today I learned!
  • 2 1
 you know if you don't want a mullet they have the mega tower
  • 1 0
 @catweasel: that is basically impossible
  • 5 0
 @Themanicguy: me too, I love 27.5 and don't ever see myself riding 29". I was just remoarking on how it was sad too see that my favorite wheel size is dying off.
  • 1 0
 @NoahJ: yea, sucks alot beacause everythings been centered to whats fastest, not whats more fun.
  • 4 2
 This would be my 1st choice if I wasn't riding a 27.5 Megalowtower. The SC bikes may look the same but for a good reason - great performance, durability and ease of maintenance. And no proprietary or annoying bullshit to deal with either.
  • 5 1
 I like to use the Porsche 911 as a comparison. Same Platform for ages, just finely tuned and massaged each iteration, with very little changed and the same look and design language is maintained. It's perfect. I'm biased, I have a Hightower, and I fuckin' love it. But I've rode my buddies Slash and Sight, and there's just something about the VPP... it feels so good!
  • 1 0
 idk looks like a trek session to me
  • 3 1
 I see that you're based in Boston. As someone out in Western Mass my question is, where the hell do you justify riding that beast?
  • 1 0
 Do I need to?
  • 4 0
 Be nice to see this compared to a bike like the banshee rune for people who don't care about carbon or Santa Cruz or 29 inch front wheels.
  • 3 0
 Or other Banshees or comparable bikes which, before inflation, were selling for $2000 less for frame
  • 5 0
 One important detail between the Nomad and the Torque is that the Canyon is compatible with dual crowns
  • 2 0
 My friend rented one last week and I rode it down a portion of Bennetts Gap. It is a total sled. Just point it in a general direction and let go of the brakes. Fairly playful too but nothing like my Occam. Climbed decent but horrible of flat roads-probably because of the slow tires.
  • 2 0
 Most likely tires. If you look at the previous field-test, the Nomad V5 won the fire-road efficiency test against all Enduro and Trail bikes in the test.
  • 6 1
 Price is a joke, save your money, get a normal enduro bike, and a DH one, drink a few beers with the money you saved
  • 2 0
 I’ve had mine about a month now and it is an amazing bike. Built it from the frame up so having all components of my choosing is a plus to the experience. I’m running DT Swiss EX511’s, DD casings, and cush core XC’s front and rear which I think helps with some of the “harshness” giving some wheel flex where the Reserve 30’s are very stiff.

I expect the X2 to blow up, but luckily there’s a Fox service center about 10 minutes from my house. The issue seems to be more common with the trunnion mount models, especially on the Transition bikes that do not have brace between L/R side of the rocker in front of the seatpost subjecting the shock to greater twisting wear and tear. No experience with the coil set up, but I’ll likely pick up a DPX2 or Öhlins coil soonish.
  • 3 1
 The look of the bike is a feature too although it’s not on the spec sheet. (Not the bike for me but) I do enjoy looking at the lines and color of the grey frame. Like a space ship.
  • 7 3
 Around where I live, the biggest kooks with ride these bikes with purple anodized everything. So I would never ride one lol
  • 5 4
 How dare people buy parts for their bike that they think look good. It’s almost as bad as all the puppies they surely kick, too.
  • 4 0
 @stevemokan: I'm all for it, but at a certain point when you cant even get across a pump track, should you really be spending like 12 grand on a bike? it looks so goofy.
  • 5 0
 Issues with the X2? COLOR ME SHOCKED
  • 2 1
 one other con of these bigger downtubes is that they are too wide for a mac-ride to fit on. Granted, none of us buy a bike like this for the express purpose of riding around with our kids, but I was sad when I tried to fit my mac ride on my wife's 2022 furtado.
  • 1 1
 Have you tried the Mac Ride on a Nomad 6? The Furtado is quite a "different" frame. The wife has a Nomad 6 with a child on the way, so I am curious haha.
  • 2 1
 Mac Ride makes an adapter to make it wider to fit these bikes.
  • 2 0
 My kid rides a hardtail. Way more fun than than me riding for him.
  • 2 1
 When will Santa Cruz embrace the consumer direct model and hit the same price point as Canyon? I know everyone is on a mission to support local bike shops...but - this is odd to me. I don't see anyone ignoring the value of Wix to support their local web designer...just my two cents. We're all in this together.
  • 7 6
 Hahahaha my obesity comment got axed. And that's why we have a world wide obesity problem, everyone is too afraid of offending anyone and can't talk about the proverbial (and literal) elephant in the room. Fat acceptance is murder.
  • 7 1
 Nah, it's just at the bottom of the page, in the 'below threshold' zone.
  • 3 0
 12k is ridiculous. 1500 drivetrain, 1500 suspension, 1500 wheels, maybe 1000 for everything else.
5k plus for a carbon frame and full retail for all the parts?
  • 1 0
 There is no denying that SC bike are nice and the frame finish is propped sexy but the price is insane for a bike with parts I would happily swap from the box. I also can’t wrap my mind around mix brand suspension with RS shocks on models and Fox forks. I have previously owned a Nomad but can no longer justify the cost of them. Life time bearings are great but who honestly owns it for that long? My bike usually are 3-5 years max. Bearings that I have had usually last a good while bar main pivot which don’t really cost the earth.
  • 1 0
 No desire to own a SC purely from a price/spec standpoint. It looks incredible, as most of their bikes do, but I have no desire to own the latest carbon super bike at this point. Give me an alloy frame and top tier, reliable suspension. You can just spec such a good bike for SO much less than what this costs. My 2 cents.
  • 2 0
 dammit SC, it looks the same as all SC bikes in the last 5 years. How I am supposed to explain that this is a 2023 model to the parking lot bros? You are making me look like a fool
  • 1 0
 It seems to be a pattern in enduro bike reviews to list a lack of DD casing as a huge negative. Not everyone lives next to a bike park and can justify the weight penalty. Certainly SCB has in mind a bigger market than Whistler residents.
  • 1 0
 My two cents…

Every comparable GX build from Transition is around $500 less than Santa Cruz’s offerings, with specs that really make the price difference around $2,000. SC puts a mid tier fork/shock and SRAM Guide/G2 brakes on their build, Transition specs Zeb Ultimate/top tier shocks and Code RSC brakes on a bike(s) that cost $500 less. I hate to keep making the dentist joke with some of these brands, but nothing about an SC bike is worth their pricing in 2022 when almost every bike from every brand is pretty excellent and have pretty marginal differences in ride quality.

That said, who cares if “all their bikes look the same”? Almost every brand has this going on, particularly, similarly overpriced brands like Yeti.
  • 6 4
 If you already have a Bronson MX buy the Cascade link and over fork it, you'll have the Bronson without the cascade and this with the link installed.
  • 2 0
 Too bad there's not a link to mullet the megatower v1. Pretty sure many people would love it.
  • 3 3
 If _you_ don't think the flip chip is needed, then why do you care how easy or difficult it is to change? Some people might want that 3mm of BB height, or whatever the X percent leverage change it makes, and they'll greatly appreciate the chip and probably not care about the process of flipping it _one time_.
  • 3 1
 Why does Santa Cruz always get gagged on..but a brand like say trek is always meh..it's what all the cool kids are wearing I guess
  • 1 0
 I absolutely love my Nomad 4 CC. My only gripes over time is that it feels a tad short at higher speeds, and I was jealous of frame storage. But that price, good lord. I literally paid less for my new '22 KTM XCF350.
  • 2 1
 I don't get Santa Cruz, why can't they make an Aluminum Nomad or Megatower that is less costly and would attract buyers. With $11,000 you can literally buy a used car that works perfectly fine and even pay medical bills.
  • 2 1
 Used cars that pay medical bills? I'm not even aware of new cars that can do that.
  • 3 0
 Would have been great to see a comparison of this to the new Intense Tracer S 279 instead of the Canyon Torque.
  • 2 0
 This title reads like saying 'it tasted pretty nice' after eating a $500 burger... Yes, it definitely beats a Big Mac, but there's better stuff to be had for far less money.
  • 1 0
 to think i though it was expensive to buy a last tarvo, last week with ful ext suppention and carbon wheels and handmade in germany costing around 7.5 then i see the price of the sc and i feel like i got a steal lol
  • 1 0
 So the chainstay on the large megatower is SHORTER than on the new MX Nomad in large? Weird............ so the swingarm the same as the megatower too, just as the front triangle? Only links different?
  • 1 0
 Seeing bikes go up soo much since Covid, I’m soo glad I picked up my Nomad Gen4 end of season saving and got an XO1 spec CC with the Reserve wheels for almost half the price of this bike. Smug As F**k sorry not sorry.
  • 6 3
 Queue the dentist bike comments.
  • 5 0
 You're getting to the point where dentists also don't really make that much money. Need to start switching it up to Orthodontist... or Physician... or Anesthesiologist.
  • 4 0
 @Sweatypants: is getting more specific. periodontist, endodontist, radiologist, cardiothoracic surgeon...etc. tech company v.p. and above. general practitioners are being priced out of the market.
  • 1 0
 @Edgibson: definitely not on a OR nurses salary.
  • 2 0
 @Porsche73RS Name checks out Wink
  • 5 4
 Bruh isn't this just the bronson? And I am pretty sure there are links to make the bronson longer travel so why this at all???
  • 3 0
 not headset cable routing...pass
  • 3 0
 For over $11,000 it damn well better be very good. Jesus.
  • 2 0
 Esp without an engine.
  • 1 0
 @jrocksdh: you are the engine. now get to work
  • 4 3
 Dont crack your frame casing a jump cause its called "crash replacement warranty" Not Lifetime warranty, So that replacement frame cost me $2000.
  • 5 0
 Well if you case a big enough jump, anything can break. User error is not a defect of a product.
  • 1 0
 @leon-forfar: If it happens more than once, it's just another 'corner case'...right?
  • 3 0
 It HAS to be good - it goes to 11! 11 thousand dollars....
  • 2 0
 Mildly disappointed since I really thought SC was going to one up Yeti's $5000 frameset only.
  • 4 1
 $11k for a bike that comes with a Reverb... Next!
  • 2 0
 The fact that this does not have headset routing makes it almost unrideable.
  • 1 2
 Maybe it's just my body type, but this bike seems cramped. With the slack head tube, steep seat tube, short stem & average reach it seems so cramp for someone 5'10-5'11. I had a 2020 GT sensor with a 65.5 HT and 76 ST. with a 470 reach and to me it felt tight with a 50mm stem and I'm 5'10.5. I don't feel like I have wonky proportions and am i tripping?
  • 1 0
 Why not buy the size that suits your preferences rather blindly following the size chart?
  • 1 0
 @st-alfie: I am making a comparison to my old bike and that one. Both have the same reach and size large
  • 1 0
 @KingPooPing: and the point you're trying to make is?

You appear to be saying that you prefer a roomier bike than the manufacturers suggest for your height. In that case, you size up or look elsewhere. No bike is made to suit everyone's individual preferences.
  • 1 2
 @st-alfie: No, seriously there not!?Mind blown
  • 3 0
 You know it rides damn good. There has never been a bad Nomad.
  • 1 0
 If you told me years ago that one day a Canyon will better looking and more consistent than a SC I wouldn't believe... Since today.
  • 3 0
 I think at $11000 I should get to hand pick the components.
  • 1 1
 Nice that they bucking the trend of bikes going super chonk heavy. And honestly, price not that bad. My 17 Sworks Enduro listed at over $9k. Factor in inflation and the crazy world we are in now, and almost a wash?
  • 1 0
 Damn. I once bought a new tacoma for just a little more than that how time and money just fly by. Now shut up and let me max a credit card to buy this!!
  • 1 0
 I want one, but I'm pretty sure most of the frames are already sold for the year
  • 3 3
 These bikes need some type of fender built into the rear triangle.
Surprised that Santa Cruz hasn’t already figured this out, since all there bikes have similar setups.
  • 2 0
 They've had an integrated fender for years. The first lower link driven trail bike they released, the Nomad 4 back in 2017 had the fender. So has every bike they've released since.
  • 3 0
 @BrambleLee: that little piece of rubber is not what I consider to be a fender . Shock area gets filled with dirt on these bikes.
  • 1 0
 @PB4UGO: my Hightower does no have this problem. I was afraid of it and I never had any mud in that area.
  • 2 1
 @mikekazimer on your stats section, it would be good to know how long your arms are if you're going to give us inseam.
  • 3 0
 I wouldn't recommend making any buying decisions based on my wingspan, but since you asked, it's 6'1", or 2" more than my height.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: It's part of the picture when discussing bike fit! Thanks.
  • 6 0
 @mikekazimer: yah and now include pictures of your feet because that has to do with bike fit too
  • 6 0
 @calispeedboi, I might have to put those ones behind a paywall.
  • 2 0
 29” front 26” rear…the mega mullet
  • 3 1
 Just built a fully rigid one of these. It's pretty dope.
  • 5 0
 the 69er
  • 2 0
 Yes, it’s very good, and yes, it’s wayyy to expensive.
  • 2 0
 bbbbrrrruuuuhhhhhh didnt they just update it like a year ago
  • 2 0
 ...I'll take a pass on the 'RSV' variant, um version...
  • 2 0
 Wait, it's over $11K and I have to pedal?
  • 4 2
 sc is like yeti. Marketing BS RUN AWAY
  • 2 0
 Just waiting on the Nomad V10.
  • 1 0
 I would like to hear how it compares to the WR1 Arrival 170 SP1 build which is very similar bike at a better value IMO.
  • 1 0
 Santa cruz could fit the fork and even the breaks inside the frame and everyone would say wow that has to be a great bike.
  • 2 0
 Buy the Intense Tracer 279 and thank me later.
  • 2 5
 It is a really smart move of SC to share the front triangle between frames: Nomad/Megatower, Bronson/Hightower, 5010/Tallboy… this way they save on the tooling costing of the carbon molds and only swap out the rear triangle and linkage. Actually really similar to GG who uses the same mold regardless of travel.
  • 22 0
 so they could afford to lower prices... oh wait
  • 1 0
 The Nomad and Megatower are the only pairing that share front triangles. The 5010 and Tallboy, as well as the Hightower and Bronson, each have unique front triangles.
  • 2 1
 Look how long that back-end is! So good!
  • 1 1
 What an amazing do it all bike! It's a 170-travel bike but the AS chart only goes to about 150mm for whatever reason.
  • 4 0
 Are you really able to pedal at the exact moment your 170mm bike is 150mm deep in the travel? If yes, your sag is probably not set correctly. If your sag is set correctly, it's not really relevant to see the anti squat curve past 80% of the travel of the bike.
  • 1 0
 @landric: That's not how charts work.

To understand what AS is at sag, the chart should show the entire travel. From the included AS chart you don't know if they sent the Bronson chart over (most likely) or just cut off the last 20mm of travel thinking it unimportant.

Furthermore, AS near bottom out does matter, as you want it to be as low as possible.
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: The AS curve they included is only for a 24t cog on the cassette anyway, the chances to bottom out while being in the ratio 32/24 is pretty small. If they would have included the graphs for every cog on the cassette, we would most likely notice a big difference between the 50t and the 10t cog for the bottom out value.

That being said, you are right that it would make more sense to see the whole curve.
  • 1 0
 Thank you for the noise notes. Very appreciated!
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer Did you prefer the low or the high setting?
  • 3 3
 I dont agree the cons issues. Exo+ are easier to pedal than dd. 175 dropper is enough.
  • 2 0
 yah you show him and buy the heck out of that bike
  • 3 2
 keep it for 12k.....only for guys that can't ride
  • 2 1
 I’d still have a Spire over this all day long
  • 1 0
 Wow I’m still riding version one. Where has time gone?
  • 3 2
 Can we stop with all the mullets?
  • 1 0
 Money for nothing and bikes for free...
  • 2 0
 Con not 27.5
  • 1 0
 Looks like a Chinese made version of my Foes Mixer
  • 1 0
 Yep, the same geometry as Transition Patrol SBG from 2018
  • 1 0
 MTB prices are getting out of hand...
  • 2 3
 3mm change in bb height can cause some situations even those not sensitive at all can feel it Big Grin
  • 2 2
 I think she rides like a boring slut imo after reading the majority here
  • 1 0
 These are rude.
  • 1 1
 I'd rather buy an Arrival.
  • 1 0
 No pedals. Bike sucks Wink
  • 1 0
 My next bike, for sure.
  • 1 2
 People still buy complete bikes?
  • 2 3
 Same bike still Chinese plastic
  • 18 21
 Near yeti prices. Miles better quality
  • 18 3
 no toothpaste colorways though, I'll stick to Yeti thank you very much
  • 6 0
 Have you ever ridden a modern Yeti?
  • 2 4
 @vtracer: if you like your yeti stick with it i dont like them because of how many people say they cracked them
  • 1 7
flag Hg1 (Nov 28, 2022 at 8:37) (Below Threshold)
 @cool3: I was saying that to troll the yeti fan boys
  • 3 0
 @Hg1: Actually a YT is all I can afford
Below threshold threads are hidden





You must login to Pinkbike.
Don't have an account? Sign up

Join Pinkbike  Login
Copyright © 2000 - 2023. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.052369
Mobile Version of Website