How does it compare? The Process 134 and the Norco Optic were both developed in roughly the same geographic location, which makes it even more interesting to look at the two company's interpretations of a modern trail bike.
Both bikes are spec'd with a 140mm fork, but the Optic has a bit less rear travel – 125mm vs. the Process' 134mm. When it comes to geometry, the Optic is the longer and slacker of the two. The reach numbers are relatively close, but the Optic has a 65-degree head tube angle, and longer chainstays on all but the smallest size. Norco gets a bonus point for the fact that they alter the rear-center length depending on the size – the back-end of the bike gets longer as the front end grows. On the Process, the chainstay length is 427mm no matter if the reach is 425 or 510mm.
I preferred the climbing position of the Optic over the Process – the Optic's actual seat tube angle is a few degrees steeper than the Kona's, which, combined with the slightly longer chainstays, made me feel more centered over the pedals.
The 134 has the edge when it comes to maintaining sharp, snappy handling at slower speeds – the Optic feels a little more subdued in mellower terrain. It's still very easy to maneuver, but there's a calmness to it compared to the Process' almost-frenetic eagerness to dart around tight turns.
Unless you're doing back-to-back laps, the difference in rear-travel between the two bikes isn't all that noticeable when descending, but the geometry differences are. They're both extremely versatile, but the Optic's extra length and slacker head angle helped keep it more composed at higher speeds and in steeper terrain – the Process felt a little pointier, and I had to pay more attention to my line choice.
As far as price goes, the Optic's aluminum rear end gives it a significantly lower frame-only price - $2,299 vs. $3,299. The pricing difference translates to the complete builds as well. The Process 134 DL and the Optic C1 are the same price, but the C1 gets niceties like a carbon bar and DT 350 hubs.
291 Comments
Slack 120-130mm 29’s are the best all-round mountain bikes on sale.
But yeah, if it's not your thing, it's not your thing. Personally, I'd bump up to the higher travel model. Just my preference.
And finally, did I really write something "ways" closer to 35 pounds. Geez.
All that adds up to a bike thats more fun 90% of the time and you can ride for longer/faster overall. Well that should be the case if they didn't weigh as much as 150mm bikes. If they do then I agree, what's the point? Look at Santa Cruz. Why buy a Tallboy if it's your only bike? The weight is more or less the same as a HighTower.
That's quite an absolute statement, wouldn't you agree that's highly dependent on both the style of riding and the trails one has access to?
I also think it’s way more fun being under biked on 20% of trails than over biked on 80%.
Something like a Top Fuel or Spark with appropriate spec would surely allow you to go higher and farther before you are exhausted but that is not what is trendy right now.
Also, i'm all for weight limits on frames because, like you, i dont want to lug around a heavy monstrosity built for someone twice my weight. But looking at the shape of the general and solvent population, especially in the US, i don't see that happening. A feasible start would be to vary frame strength with frame size, however.
They exist only to make the unsophisticated customer think they are getting something decent.
It’s a lower spec / price point, doesn’t mean it’s garbage.
That said I had my first ride yesterday, on my 350’s and all I can say is wow.
I see pivot also use these shit hubs on £7.5k builds....
My two biggest pet peeves on cost savings by product managers is using dt 370 instead of dt 350, and also using shimano " resin only" rotors instead of a real rotor.
Almost insulting to spec one on a £6k-plus bike though.
Care to comment @konaworld ?
If you're a racer (or wannabe racer) constantly sprinting over 2-4min hills chasing guys on xc rides, it's probably not the right choice.
Overall, I love the bike. I'm on the 120 and about to put a coil on for when I want to run 135mm. It's not light, but weight is overrated anyway. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of other similar bikes that are just as good, just with small differences that come down to your priorities.
@Jtray603: Pinkbike is a canadian, worldwide known, website so keep stating your height in foot and you're gonna get banned pal! The world didn't came here to do maths.
Remember in 2012 when the freeride bike died, and there was a hole between 160mm and 200mm of travel? You couldn't buy a bike with 180mm from most major brands for like 5 years. The same thing is kinda happening for chainstay length, ever since the Gwintroversy with chainstays on his Demo
Bikes are so good these days that nuance is important.
I'm glad there are trail bikes with long stays for those folks. I'm also glad there are companies making basically the same bike with 10-15mm shorter stays for riders with slightly different priorities. This is a GOOD THING for buyers and it blows my mind that folks are b*tching about some us being happy to have options.
I want an alu one pretty bad...
Leaving travel aside, the geo feels spot on for so many places. It certainly feels like a monster truck comparing with my old medium Intense 6.6, but still, it handles well in tighter local trails and in no way feels sketchy when things go hardcore (and talking about whistler/squamish blacks and double blacks here).
I recently made a quite dorky STA steepening and now it feels like the perfect geometry.
I also know a guy who works in a shop that carries Kona (and he has a couple himself) and he says that as of the last couple years they're been a f*ckin' shit-show when it comes to quality control. Always being brought back to the shop for hardware failures.
Norco is far and away the worst quality control, and the worst warranty dept. of any reputable brand.
Admittedly looking at buying a rove now. Dat high pivot witchcraft is real and is #1 on the list to replace the hei hei
"The Tallboy and the Optic can definitely party together. The Optic has a touch more rear travel, it's slightly longer, and it has a 140mm fork, which gives you a little more margin for error in the rough stuff. With a 140mm fork on the Tallboy the difference shrinks, and then you're looking more at how Santa Cruz's VPP feels vs. the Optic's Horst Link. The Optic is a little more active, and it feels like it delivers a touch more traction in loose terrain, while the Tallboy has slightly firmer suspension feel."
Lot's of people seem to be up-forking the Tallboy so comparing like to like with a 140 up front seems reasonable. Optic frame is definitely more affordable. SC build quality is second to none.
Decisions, decisions.
With the Process, when I say higher speeds I mean on sections of trail with extended straightaways, the kind where there’s really nothing controlling how fast you can go other than your brain. That’s where the bike’s limits start to show up - it doesn’t have the same level of stability as something with a longer wheelbase, which means you need to pay more attention on those types of trails.
There’s not an actual speed limit, per se; you can go as fast as you want and it won’t develop the death shimmy that my Celebrity had, it’s just something to keep in mind if your favorite trails are fast and open rather than slower and twistier.
Thanks for elaborating a bit more, that does help paint a much better picture! Still would like to see some numbers, though.
You guys do an awesome job and thanks for all the fun reading material
Kind of wish that the big east coast brands would make bikes intended for the local terrain. DeVinci looks like it's chasing West Coast clout, Cannondale is too busy being weird (the Habit looks decent though) and Jamis is kind of an afterthought though their new 3VO platform looks promising. Plz review the Jamis Hardline Pinkbike!!
the trails trend up fairly steeply for extended periods, and them you're riding downhill for extended periods on fairly technical and sometimes steep terrain. Newfoundland is similar, punchy ups and steep downs, lots it techy sections. Overall the bikes make sense I think, in places like that. I think DeVinci has a good following in BC to - so they have to serve their bread and butter markets with bikes that people in those religions want to ride. But they are well made for where the company is based - East Coast Canada.
Here in Toronto, or perhaps down south in Vermont at places like Kingdom, the slack HTA and steep STA make a bike less responsive and more uncomfortable to ride. Less fun, in a nutshell.
I definitely believe good geometry is really a regional thing. Like you, I wish more companies made bikes that make more sense for those us of that ride more tame trail on a more regular basis. Many trails here would completely pacify you on a super slack long travel rig, but can be pretty okay to boarder line fun on something with shorter legs and more responsive geo.
Road and XC bikes have seat angles around 73 degrees.
Triathlon bikes have seat angles of 76-80 degrees to rotate your body forward around the BB since you spend most of your time on the aero bars.
I ride MTB's with both old geometry and the new geometry. The old school 73 degree seat angle with your butt over the rear wheel feels more natural and more agile to me. The bikes with the steep seat angles feel much more upright and truck-like, kind of how I imagine a cargo bike must feel. But I like both types and just take the bike that is best suited to the particular trail I am riding.
I'm looking for a carbon 130mm rear bike with 27.5 wheels and trail geo as a compliment to my 180mm smashy bike. Closest i've ever been able to find is the 2018 model Cannondale Habit 2 SE, but obviously hard to find new now. What else is out there?
Reactor is supplied with 160 fork, too close to my 180 bike to splash the cash.
150 fork, also a bit too long to justify. A bit porky for what i'd like to do with it too.
5010 was also first bike that got in my mind but, yeah, it's expensive. Maybe try second hand? Speaking of it, older (no idea what years or gen...) Canyon Spectral was shorter travel. I think 130m rear with 140mm fork.
If you want new trail bike in carbon and good value take a look at Giant Trance.
I do care about weight, cause if i'm gonna drag almost 15kg around, I might as well be riding my 180mm bike that I already own.
Same reason i'm not looking for the Habit I mentioned right now, i'm not hyped on buying a 3.5 year old carbon bike of dubious service history, although I might have to resort to it eventually...
forums.mtbr.com/attachments/kona/1306037-2020-kona-bike-rumours-screen-shot-2020-01-18-7.15.10-am.png
forums.mtbr.com/attachments/kona/1306035-2020-kona-bike-rumours-screen-shot-2020-01-18-7.14.59-am.png
Ok not what Kona UK told me. If you know somewhere in europe that do frame only, please DM me! Many thanks!
Iv tried ordering frames from Kona in uk and europe. Short answers unless it's in stock and will be dispatched with proof that same day you order it forget it. it's not coming everything they say is all lies to keep your money and hope you give up and spend it on a full crappy build.
Thanks mark. Yea that would make sense if the UK distributor is saying none are being exported from US...
My ALUMINUM 160mm travel 29" 2015 Spec'l Enduro weighed 29lbs.
-Both bikes WITH pedals-
Why does this CARBON 135mm $6k bike weigh 31lbs..WITHOUT pedals?
Also bikes in recent years not only got longer but also tougher. Thanks to modern slacker geometry bikes can go much faster than ever so they need to be stronger to withstand abuse.
Just check how much modern iterations of Slash or Enduro weigh now. Also Kona was never featherweight...
Some current aluminium frames weigh over 3.7kg! You can get full-suspension STEEL frame lighter than that.
All that's missing is an explanation of cr , dl and cr/dl
cr: carbon ''lower-end'' spec
cr dl: carbon but high end spec
du: alu, shit components, priced as decent bike
cr: carbon, shit spec, priced as expensive bike
cr dl: carbon but "we will rip you" price
Kona pricing has gone out of this world, compare their bikes to Orbea or similar...
Depends on the gradient, for me "steep" is when you use your brakes but your speed doesn't change, "real steep" is a gradient where your speed increases even with your brakes on.
I just spent the last month regularly riding a real steep local track my old 2013 Slash (26", 160mm) while the 2018 Slayer (27.5, 165/170mm) was out for maintenance. Just rode the same track this morning on the Slayer which is a longer bike and felt way more shit scared than on the older other bike. I just couldn't get my weight low enough, it was like the bigger bike was in the way.
The "much better climbing position" is not that different at least on a medium frame, both have the same HT Angle and the ST Angle difference is 0.5.
As far as weight I didn't notice any difference meanwhile riding.
About the rear end squatting too much... for some reason I felt that on 2019 Process with the rockshox suspension, maybe some volume spacers could've fixed that. But on the 2020 Process 153 CR 29 it was surprisingly better. The fox suspension was better dialed for this demo bike to the point that the 134 doesn't make any sense to me.
www.norco.com/bikes/2020/mountain/trail/optic-carbon/optic-carbon-frame
Nope.. Yeti is black, rack is a 1up usa, ride is a wrangler..
Good one on the pre-conceived assumption tho Huckleberry.
This ^ makes sense, parts are parts, geo can be copied, suspension designs can be tweaked, bikes companies are closing the gap that separates them, nothing new here .... move along.
Seriously, this is looking more and more like advertising.
You're right that a review will contain opinion, but that's backed up with experience. All of the reviewers at Pinkbike ride dozens of bikes each year in order to provide an informed opinion on a bike's strengths and weaknesses. We also try to explain where a bike would work best, due to the fact that there are so many riding styles and riding areas.
This isn't meant to echo any criticisms per se but rather get the ball rolling on some constructive feedback to a fair question. Maybe others will have some better ideas.
Whether they have the same charisma when descending though, who knows?
I hardly ever use the full 160mm doing park laps or tech. Check setup
Brendan Fairclough
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