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Head to Head Review: 2025 RockShox Zeb vs Fox 38

Jun 12, 2024 at 17:36
by Mike Kazimer  
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This isn't the first time we've pitted the RockShox Zeb against the Fox 38, and it certainly won't be the last. Both companies continue to battle for dominance, rolling out small and not-so-small revisions each season in the quest for that top spot. That doesn't meant there aren't other worthy competitors out there, but for the sake of this matchup we focused on the two brands you're most likely to see spec'd on a new mountain bike this year.

Testing involved multiple days of back-to-back testing in the Whistler Bike Park (I know, sounds tough), along with multiple other rides in Squamish, BC, and Bellingham, Washington.



RockShox Zeb Ultimate Details

• 38mm stanchions
• Damper: Charger 3.1 RC2 w/ ButterCups
• Air spring: DebonAir+ w/ ButterCups
• Wheel size: 27.5", 29"
• Travel options: 150, 160, 170, 180, 190mm
• Actual weight: 2324 grams (29", 170mm travel w/ 190mm steerer + starnut)
• Price: $1,159
www.rockshox.com

Fox 38 Factory Details

• 38mm stanchions
• Damper: Grip X2
• Air spring: Float EVOL
• Wheel size: 27.5", 29"
• Travel options: 160, 170, 180mm
• Weight: 2381 grams (29", 170mm travel w/ 190mm steerer + starnut)
• Price: $1,249 USD
www.ridefox.com

Weight & Price

Cold hard facts are the easiest to compare – there's no trying to put sensations into words, no trying to figure out a better adjective for 'squishy.' When it comes to price, both forks are over $1,000, but the 38 is $90 more than the Zeb, at $1,249 vs $1,159 USD.

The weight is close enough that I'd call it a draw. The Zeb is a little lighter, especially when you factor in the brake adaptor you'll need to run a 200mm rotor on the 38, but at the end of the day the number of grams shouldn't be a deciding factor in this category – both forks were designed with more of a focus on strength and performance rather than saving grams.

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Push...
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...or twist.

Bleed Valves

Both the 38 and Zeb have bleed valves that are designed to release any unwanted air pressure that's built up in the lowers. The 38 uses a push button design, and the Zeb uses a threaded bolt that can be backed off slightly to release the trapped air.

That threaded bolt design is likely the result of Fox suing RockShox, but it actually has an unforeseen benefit – on Whistler's new Fitzimmons chairlift the rack can contact the bleed valves of a fork, letting a snail trail of oil leak out on the way up. That can't happen with the Zeb, thanks to the forced revision.

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Fox 38 Features and Updates

For 2025, Fox revised their Grip2 damper, splitting it into the Grip X2 version reviewed here, and the Grip X, which is aimed more at trail and all-mountain bikes.

The Grip X2 damper has a larger base valve to allow for more oil flow, along with a new stack of 23 shims (Grip 2 had 7 shims) that allows for a much greater range of tuning options. There's also a two-stepped 'hat' that's used to determine the high speed compression's adjustment range, and it can be swapped out to suit a rider's needs.

The 38's bushing design has also been changed. Previously, there were vertical grooves in the bushings that were supposed to help with oil flow, but it turned out those grooves increased the amount of friction, so they were removed, and the bushings now have a consistent surface.

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RockShox Zeb Features and Updates

The changes to the Zeb's damper design weren't quite as extensive as the changes to the 38, but they also involved increasing the amount of oil flowing through the damping circuit. According to RockShox, there's now 68% more oil flow through the low-speed circuit, which means lighter riders or rider who prefer less low speed compression have more useable options.

Along with the increased oil flow, the new damper has an larger high speed compression pyramid. That increased size allows for more restriction of oil flow when the high speed compression is fully closed, which increases the amount of damping.

RockShox also updated their bushing production process and implemented it on the 2025 Zeb, Lyrik, and Pike forks. The changes to the manufacturing process were intended to improve the consistency, and to ensure that there's a little bushing friction as possible on all models.



Testing Basics

The basics of the Zeb and the 38 seem to be getting increasingly similar, so we headed to the Whistler Bike Park to do multiple rounds of back-to-back testing in order to see how all of the recent changes felt in the real world.

Our main test track was Upper and Lower Whistler DH, which has a good mix of higher speed, rough sections mixed with slightly slower, steeper portions that require heavy braking. It's a track that wouldn't be out of place in an enduro race, and the higher speeds and repeated hard impacts make it ideal for fork testing.

In order to keep things as consistent as possible, both forks were set up with a similar amount of sag, and enough volume spacers so that a similar amount of travel was used by the end of each run. Once we'd set each fork up to our liking it was time to start doing back-to-back laps to really figure out the similarities and differences.


Setup

When it comes to setup, Henry and I sit on different sides of the fence. My setup for both forks is close to the manufacturers' recommended settings, and if it does deviate it ends up being towards the lighter side of low and high speed compression damping.

Henry has fallen into a data acquisition rabbit hole lately, and tends to run his high speed compression fully closed, low speed compression close to closed, and rebound set very fast, with a higher amount of sag. It's certainly not a setup that I would run, but it's working for him, so I try not to argue, at least not too much.

The good thing is that we were both able to find setups that felt comfortable and worked with our riding styles, which really is the main goal, and it's a testament to the range of possibilities that both forks possess.

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The Zeb has 15 clicks of LSC, and 5 clicks of HSC.
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The Fox 38 has 20 clicks of LSC and 10 clicks of HSC.

On The Trail

When it comes to the initial stroke, the Zeb feels more eager to break into its travel, with a more fluttery feel compared to the 38. That leads to an overall sensation that's more muted than the 38 - the Zeb seems to round off the edges of the impacts before they reach your hands to a greater extent than the 38 does. Now, I should stress that neither fork felt harsh, and I didn't experience any unexpected hand / forearm issues even after smashing out laps for multiple days in a row, but for riders who prefer a plusher, almost coil-like fork, the Zeb gets the point here.

To parse it out a little further, the Zeb feels like it prioritizes comfort a bit more than precision. It's very eager to break into its travel, and also to use that initial portion of its travel. 'Busier' is the term that came to mind when trying to compare the Zeb and the 38 - the 38 has a more immediate, direct feel that lets you know exactly what your front wheel is doing. Henry's analogy was that that that Zeb sucked itself to the ground, and the 38 drove itself into the ground, which I think is fitting.

Both Henry and I were able to get the rebound speeds as fast as we wanted with both forks, something that riders had found lacking in the previous Zeb. Interestingly, the rebound circuit of the new Zeb is the same as before, which means it may be the increased oil flow and compression shim stack, or possible the better bushing tolerances that are allowing for that faster return speed.

Bottom out resistance can easily be altered by adding or subtracting volume spacers, and I was happy running one spacer in each fork. That setup gave me plenty of travel to work with, with a little extra in reserve for those unexpected big hits.

Is there an ideal rider for either fork? If pressed, I'd say that the 38 feels 'racier,’ and not in a skimpy outfit kind of way. That aforementioned direct feel makes it seem as if it wants to deal with an impact as quickly as possible and keep charging forward, exactly what you want when you're trying to be the first to the finish line. Of course, the Zeb can certainly be raced, and it already has plenty of podium finishes to its name, but I'd say the ideal candidate for the Zeb is someone who places grip and comfort higher on their priority list, and doesn't mind a slightly more active feeling front end.


Durability

Neither fork developed any issues during our testing, and they both saw plenty of use in wet, muddy conditions, along with drier, almost dusty laps. There hasn't been any unwanted bushing play, creaky crowns, or seal issues to speak of. I'd call this portion a draw – the basics are taken care of, and both forks can withstand harsh conditions without any trouble. We'll update this if any anything develops, but so far there hasn't been any reason for concern.




Verdict

bigquotesAt the end of the day, the 2025 RockShox Zeb and the Fox 38 fork are both excellent forks. They offer a good range of usable adjustments, and are both quiet and consistent out on the trail. However, we're not going to call this fork-off a draw. Henry and I came to our own conclusions independently, and when it was time to reveal the fork we preferred the answer was the same – the Fox 38. That doesn't mean the Zeb is an inferior product - far from it – but the controlled support that the 38 delivers earned it our votes, and the win in this competition.





But wait, there's more. If you can't stand videos, and don't want to read all those pesky words, how about listening to a podcast instead? In this episode, Henry and I dig a little further into how we tested, our setup preferences, and then play school teacher to give each fork a grade.



Author Info:
mikekazimer avatar

Member since Feb 1, 2009
1,760 articles

235 Comments
  • 201 2
 I would like to see comparisons like this redone with the peoples zebs and 38’s so the select or select+ vs the performance. I think if somebody is buying a bike off the shelf most of the decently priced builds come with forks like these and I would like to know how they compare
  • 17 1
 great idea mate!
  • 31 10
 The damper upgrades are typically low yield in my opinion and at least a couple of respected suspension tuners. Fox's basic Grip damper has always worked fine. Best performance upgrades for your money are a professional service to un-f*ck the sloppy factory assembly, burnish the too-tight bushings, and an air spring upgrade eg Secus, Runt etc.. I've had Grip1 and Grip2 and professionally tuned I can't tell any difference. A certain respected suspension authority has popped into the Comments in the past and questioned the actual range of all those adjusters too, I believe the term used was "placebo dials."
  • 5 0
 @fedfox: definitely more meaningful for most of us
  • 53 0
 @Grady-Harris, not a bad idea. I've been really impressed with the basic Grip damper in the past - sometimes simpler is the way to go.
  • 6 0
 Fair fair. I tried putting off my Z1 service so I could snag a Grip X2 to install. I couldn't get my hands on one so I moved forward with my service and travel adjustment. I'm glad I did as I discovered servicing the Grip damper is stupid easy, and is making me think twice about upgrading to the Grip X2, as good as it may be. Grip just works.
  • 3 0
 @jdejace: I can't agree more about having the bushings properly burnished. I have a MRP Ribbon I bought when they first came out. I always liked the performance and was perfectly happy. Due to reasons, I had several months where I couldn't ride, so I sent the Ribbon back for service rather than doing it myself, and I asked that they check bushings. The found them to be a little light and burnished them to the correct tolerance and what a difference. the fork felt way more supple and I had to change my settings to make up for the faster speed and desire to break into travel. I kinda want to do the same with my 36 now.
  • 5 5
 @jdejace: All of the Performance line of fox products I've used out of the factory have been shamefully bad. Glad I wasn't gaslighting myself. Maybe they're just trying to drive the incentive to spend 1200$ on unnecessary upgrades?
  • 10 0
 I was a Zeb ultimate guy until I bought a bike that came with a fox 38 performance Thinking I would just sell the fox and put a zeb on it. All my bikes are now Fox 38 Performance. Bear in mind that this fork also made me realize how much more of a set it Up in half of one ride and then forget it type of guy. I personally prefer less things to tinker with.
  • 6 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: You hit on something I think is more important than alleged incremental improvements and that is better manufacturing tolerances and quality checks before we punters get our stuff. I’ve had a number of forks over the years that have needed new bushings, had too much grease in the air spring clogging the transfer port etc. I would assume that forks sent to be reviewed by media testers have been given a good service beforehand to ensure the product is in optimal condition. For the kind of money they ask all forks should be up to snuff. A break in period is acceptable but it should be a short one.
  • 6 0
 @jdejace: Although, I love reading about the tech and pretending to fully understand it lol, I was and still am very impressed with the 36 performance(not elite) that I had for a while. And for me, it was probably the fork that made the most sense and I was able to get to a very solid setup.
  • 24 1
 I'd prefer to see Lyrik VS 36, arguably the two more usable forks for the majority of people.
  • 4 0
 @Someoldfart: I think it'd be interesting if the more prominent reviewers were able to components off the shelf. I suspect they could get the manufacturers to cover the bill in exchange for getting their fork featured on major sites (eg Pinkbike). Just shame them into it "In our group test we used forks ordered from different online retailers in order to best represent the experience consumers can expect. We requested the fork manufacturers pay for the fork in order to participate. The following manufacturers declined our terms, either because they could not spare $1,000 or because they wanted to have their hands on a fork prior to our testing for undisclosed reasons."
  • 2 1
 I have a Z1 with Grip 1 and a last gen Zeb Ultimate with a bladder type Charger.

I like both, but prefer the Zeb. To me Fox and RS is a bit different setup because Fox is more sensitive to damper settings (wider acceptable spring range and narrower acceptable damper range, i.e. you gotta get the right damper settings go make it work well) and RS is the opposite (narrower acceptable spring range and wider acceptable damper range, i.e. you gotta get the right spring rate to make it work well).
  • 6 0
 @jdejace: check on Instagram for fluid focus, they just published some comparison data between the new suntour durolux and the x2 damper. Very interesting.
  • 16 0
 To say that one of these forks is better than the other comes down to personal preference more than performance. I personally prefer the softer off the top feel of RockShox. Fatigue has a big impact on how well and long you can ride. Less felt impact less fatigue means I can ride harder longer. I also like the fact that my 2024 Pike Ultimate and 2018 Lyrik Ultimate are really easy to set up, and tune. The Lyrik has a lot of miles on it now and hasn’t skipped a beat. The Fox 36 Factory it replaced on the other hand needed warranty service within a month of riding. It lasted longer than the X2 did but not by much. When the X2 crapped out I had DirtLabs build a Super Deluxe Ultimate and never looked back. So just like the Lyrik It’s got over 5 seasons of year round riding on it without fault. I’ve only ever had 1 Fox product last that long without needing warranty work. Is every RockShox fork and shock going to be as trouble free? Probably not. Is every Fox fork, shock and dropper post going to be as unreliable as I have experienced, Again probably not. Me and Fox product just don’t get along.
When it comes to suspension simpler is better for most people. I’d wager good money that 90% of riders wouldn’t benefit from top tier suspension. I asked a friend of mine about his fork settings the other day. His response? I don’t know the shop set it up….. On top of that he just bought the new Fox 38 Factory fork to replace his old 38. Unsurprisingly he said he didn’t notice a difference. Keep in mind this guy is a very talented rider and has a full send ride style to say the least. My mind was blown! How could a guy who absolutely shreds not know what his suspension settings are? How does he not ever wonder if it could be better with more or less LSR, HSR, LSC, HSC or volume spacers??????
  • 4 2
 Fox's GRIP damper is much better than the RS Select dampers. They both suffer harshness over sharp edges.

The GRIP has a general lack of compression damping when open and gets harsh as you adjust it closed (because it adds shim preload).
The selects have a lot of friction and orifice type damping that doesn't do well at faster speeds.
  • 1 0
 @notthatfast: Agreed and at select+ v performance elite. The ones you might actually buy
  • 1 0
 @jdejace: Yep. The correct response to the Charger 3.1 is to buy a Charger 3 on sale and use what you saved to have it custom tuned and then run it for a long time.
  • 3 4
 How about a comparison of a 38 vs ZEB after both forks have 2 weeks of regular usage since last service, that would be much more interesting!

How would pinkbike then spin their agenda driven outcomes to say the 38 is the winner when the ZEB is still working smoothly and the 38 already feels in desperate need of another service?

I think the "it just works" aspect of Rockshox vs the "high maintenance" needs of Fox is important for the regular consumer in making a buying decision.
  • 4 1
 @jdejace: just let PB pay for them theirselves at retail. If you want independent reviews then you need no manufacturer interference. Watch Sandy Munro, they buy a vehicle from the manufacturer and do a full tear down to body in white. If you want honesty, that’s how you get it.
  • 2 0
 @dancingwithmyself: The Charger 3 isn't a good tuning platform though. Charger 2.1 RC2 was better in every way.
  • 4 0
 @Dougal-SC: Fair enough, but main point I was trying to make is the value of custom tuning over the latest and greatest one-size-fits-all.
  • 2 0
 @jdejace: I'd argue there is a huge difference between the grip and grip 2 damper. The former has such low speed compression it blows through its travel really fast,leaving you to compensate with the airspring/volume.
  • 1 1
 They’re still going to tell you Fox is the best, because Fox has the most money.
  • 2 0
 @PHX77: Agree. I was using RS 2.1 lyrik and zeb after getting tired of my Fit4 forks. Then tried a grip2 and now have a grip x2 on my long travel bike. I have other forks but don't see riding anything else in the next few years. All forks ride a bit different but my Fox forks do their job without any fuss.
  • 68 0
 I was expecting this article from Zeb Stott
  • 31 1
 hes gonna give the win to the 38
  • 16 1
 @averagerug: Seb Stott was a paying sponsor of this article, thus the final verdict.
  • 10 6
 Another advertorial for Fox sake.
  • 3 0
 @LemonadeMoney: I do see that the main banner add on the day this came out is for the new Zeb so I'm not sure they pandered.
  • 60 6
 I, for one, am absolutely shocked that Pinkbike preferred Fox.
  • 25 4
 Stick a fork in it, the experts have spoken. It will be interesting to see if the Zeb can rebound next year
  • 17 52
flag rumblefish255 (Jun 13, 2024 at 8:04) (Below Threshold)
 They are Fox fanboys here at pinkbike. Not a surprise at all. At the end of the day it’s hard to say if fox or rock shox is better on the trail. But call customer support for both then make a decision which to buy. Spoiler alert I’d bet rock shox will win that one.
  • 38 1
 @rumblefish255: We were just doing a pun thing here
  • 27 0
 @rumblefish255: Anecdotally, I reached out to Fox regarding early seal failures on my X2. Low and behold, I got a new shock stanchion, updated seal assembly and seals serviced through a local Fox shock rebuilder and it was handled within about 1.5 weeks and back on my bike.

I get it - the updated X2 that came out in 20/21 had an issue with seal failure for sure. But it seems like this has been remedied, and the X2 offers terrific performance otherwise. I'm by no means a brand loyalist - Rockshox stuff is great, Fox stuff is great, and there are plenty of boutique brands making awesome stuff (EXT, 11-6, etc.).
Pinkbike comments section loves to be wronged once and gripe about it for life. As with any piece of tech gear - everyone eventually has a product failure or recall of some variety. So long as they fix it, the consumer should keep and open mind and not make it their religion.
  • 2 2
 Especially when pinkbike is partnering with Fox on media content like the new dialed series (which is excellent). Whatever I guess I’ll take biased reviews for good media content.
  • 2 3
 @rumblefish255: it's hard if your hands and arm are numb, easy win for the 38, never tried a zeb that felt good regardless of the level ( select+/ultimate ) or damper ( 2.1/3 ) unless completely redone and tuned
  • 2 2
 @bbachmei: Pinkbike take everyone's money, and their editorial clearly isn't biased. I tend to favour RS forks as they're cheaper here and perform pretty well, but the Zeb does feel a bit vague and imprecise at times - so I'm willing to believe the verdict here.
  • 2 0
 @nicoenduro: who knew a zeb that isn't tuned to you does not ride well, shocking
  • 1 0
 @stephenzkie: tuned as you take the overdamped charger apart and change the compression/rebound tune. + bushing burnished, that's what i meant
  • 43 3
 I dont need any of these forks, but if I do I would take ZEB just because of red color. It looks HOT !
  • 15 0
 I have a red lyrik, cause red. Nice fork too, thankfully.
  • 2 0
 I heard red - means speed!
  • 1 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: And metallic red....Fast AND funky!
  • 12 0
 The funny thing is that Fox also make a Red Fork, and it's cheaper too, it starts with a "M" Wink
  • 1 13
flag Jordmackay (Jun 13, 2024 at 13:03) (Below Threshold)
 They may have taken the crown from Fox with them red lowers. As the worst colour way for forks on the market. Orange is a disgusting 2nd
  • 34 0
 Henry’s setup sounds bonkers
  • 5 2
 ALMOST tempted to try it, just for kicks. Almost.
  • 3 0
 Letting the damper do the work
  • 3 0
 @dirtnapped: 100% give it a try, it probably won't be to your liking, but at worst you'll learn something. bonus points if you remove all the volume spacers while you're at it
  • 5 8
 This is absolutely the way, especially for aggressive riding. Glad to have another reviewer who has seen the light haha. Only works with dampers that work well without harshness. Was arguably not possible on previous Gen fox and rockshocks, not sure about the new stuff but sounds like fox took a step in the right direction. Those of us on ohlins, manitou, ext, others have been enjoying this setup for past while.
  • 1 1
 @unusual-bread: So how much sag do you run? I’m getting more curious, just need need a new base line.
  • 5 4
 I recently heard an interview about fork/shock setup with Fox's lead suspension tuner for the pro teams. He was essentially saying that way too many consumers are not using nearly enough HSC/LSC, and that using the dampers to help control the fork/shock speeds during compression allows for riders to fine tune their spring rate and achieve the optimal ride.

Sounds like Henry may be onto something interesting....
  • 11 2
 @KJP1230: so you’re telling me the adjustments on the fork …. Adjust the fork?

Amazing
  • 2 1
 @dirtnapped: biggest thing is you can use a more linear spring, so no air tokens, coil in the rear.

Also lets me run normal sag, instead of being oversprung.

The cherry on top for this setup is quick mid speed rebound which is hard to find. Lets you run low speed relatively closed without packing. Ext shocks do this well imo. Bought a non preloaded/dished rebound piston for my mezzer from shockcraft to match on the front.
  • 6 1
 Haha it's really worth trying. I'm more middle in Ohlins and Manitou setups. I just find with Fox and Rockshox the overall level can sometimes be on the lower side. That said, that's what adjusters are for. With the new GRIPX2 I'm a lot more central on both adjusters. Make of that what you will. Thanks!
  • 1 0
 @nvranka: I'm telling you that professional suspension tuners are saying most consumers (even avid mountain bikers) don't use the adjustments on the fork enough/correctly.
  • 3 1
 I would love to see a deep dive on Henry's suspension settings rabbit hole. I feel like he's been alluding to it for a while, time to pull back the curtain
  • 2 0
 @henryquinney: weren’t you going to do an article about your data findings and setup etc?
  • 6 1
 @oatkinso: I did publish the article back in the New Year, there are lots of settings on there. However, I'm always learning and still have a lot of learning left to do!

My settings for this test are below. They're all from closed, although for the record I agree with Kaz and am happy to count from open if I'm closer to that end, even if it can be less consistent (or so they say).

Fox 38 Grip X2 - 82PSI, LSC 10, HSC 3, open rebound, 2 volume spacers
Rockshox Zeb Charger 3.1 - 61PSI, LSC 4, HSC 0, 13 rebound, 1 volume spacer

Previously I would be closed on the GRIP2 damper on HSC, although similar in other aspects. For the Zeb, I would be fully open on both LSC and rebound. With both forks I could ride lower, and if I wanted to get the perfect setup for a track it likely would be, but that pressure gives me a good baseline for a wider variety of trails.

I weigh around 80KG, and all the testing was done on the Orange.

Cheers
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney: oh sorry maybe something different but I thought Matt Beer said you’d be publishing an article about a data thing you used to help him at the NZ Rally or something. Cheers anyway!
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney: Thanks for sharing. Wild you can run such low pressure. On the ZEB I've always found I need to run way more air than recommended.
  • 8 0
 @oatkinso: oh so you are. That’s become something slightly longer term - however initial outcomes would suggest that I am indeed right about everything (and always will be).

Joking aside, I’ve cooled a little of ultra specific setups - although I do think running less pressure, faster rebound and lots of compression front and back has been a massive net positive for my own riding.
  • 1 1
 @henryquinney: could you tell us what sag % you are both running? Mike mentions that you differ in this respect. It’d give a much better idea of how you’re each prioritising damper vs spring rate for support. Ta!
  • 1 0
 @dominic54: sag is hard, not least because I don’t have Kaz’s, but also because measuring it can be inconsistent rider to rider. I have started deriving sag via data tools out on the trail. I typically run low 20s percent in the fork, and high twenties in the shock. When it gets steeper this equalize to a degree. I also think that with progressive bikes, there is a differential between shock sag and what percent of the wheel travel is actually being uses. You can get this setting in the backrooms of the app - but often I am going between bikes so just run with it, plus there quite often there isn’t the kinematics loaded anyway. I hope that helps (although it probably doesn’t ha)
  • 1 0
 Well surely in a perfect world you would be in the middle of the settings which allow some variation (30k trail ride one day, DH shuttles the next). If you have to run everything wide open how much damping control do you have? I'm LSC closed and HSC three of four from closed for most of riding.
  • 1 0
 Used to pump fork, add volume spacers, pump it a little more, open up compression to fully or almost fully open.

Got the zeb and because of visual markings on the dials i started playing more. by now i drasticly changed my setup compared to before:
less air (still more than recomanded but i guess that's normal with every fork Big Grin ) no spacer, compression middle to closed, slighly faster rebound. added a 5mm spacer under the stem because more travel usage and like that still higher handlebar.

what i like: the setup still takes the big hits and handles them overall. why overall: handling ist not only at the end, it handles the hits through the full stroke (less progression). it feels more reactive and less fatiguing than before, feels more predictable.
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney: yes, I take your point about progressive ratios meaning % of shock isn’t % of travel. And that it’s a bitch to measure consistently. It does indeed help though! I know that I run relatively high fork sag, high 20s, and wondered how much of an outlier I was. Interesting about steeper trails equalising sag, I hadn’t thought about it like that. Thanks!
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney: yes, I take your point about progressive ratios meaning % of shock isn’t % of travel. And that it’s a bitch to measure consistently. It does indeed help though! I know that I run relatively high fork sag, high 20s, and wondered how much of an outlier I was. Interesting about steeper trails equalising sag, I hadn’t thought about it like that. Thanks!
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney: what compression and rebound speeds are you shooting for when using your data acquisition setup?
  • 39 12
 Go Manitou Mezzer and never worry about it again.
  • 5 0
 This
  • 17 8
 Or Marzocchi Z1 Coil, I doubt anyone here needs more fork than that. More simple the better.
  • 15 0
 I would love to se the Mezzer compared to these two 2025 forks. It's getting so much good reviews, that I suppose it should be compared to the big two. Even though it's not from the biggest brands.
  • 4 0
 I would love to se the Mezzer compared to these two 2025 forks. It's getting so much good reviews, that I suppose it should be compared to the big two. Even though it's not from the biggest brands.
  • 4 0
 @IluvRIDING: me too, i've got one and love it, but never tried a 38mm stanchioned fork from any manufacturer.

the mezzer predates all of the 38mm forks by at least a couple of months and is the only one not to have been updated since release (bar a rebound tune change). so i'd imagine its "obsolete" now compared to the other forks. I dunno, i really want to try a 38 and pop my manitou bubble
  • 6 2
 @tempnoo1:

I have a Fox 36 with Grip2 and a Bomber Z1 Coil with Grip1.

The BOMBER IS THE BEST fork I have ever owned. I put one on my my wife's bike, much to her "I don't need it and I won't notice the difference" displeasure and as she returned to the trailhead from her first ride her first words were: "HOLY FORK" with a huge grin.
  • 5 1
 @tempnoo1: Put a first gen (pre vvc) grip 2 damper in and burnish the bushings and you got an absolutely killer fork!
  • 6 0
 @IluvRIDING: I've spent time on one of the earlier zebs, my 2022 mezzer, and not really enough time on a 38 to really say I know well. The mezzer is infinitely more supple and controlled then my zeb was. Rockshox may have better bushing tolerances now though? Damping and air spring on the mezzer is also way better then the zeb was. ramp up works, intial stroke is light, and damping doesn't feel over busy but does round the rough off to the hands. I even have a friend that owns a couple 38s and he wants a mezzer. For the money its one of the best single crowns on the market from what little I can tell.
  • 12 1
 And don't forget to tell everyone about it
  • 3 0
 @tempnoo1: Yes, the Z1 is a brilliant fork. I'd love a medium/firm in-betweeny spring for it though. And a 38mm, 180mm 29er chassis.
They must have a coil version of the new 28mm Marz fork in the pipeline?
  • 5 0
 @IluvRIDING: I would love to see a Mezzer comparison too. I got one when they first came out. It felt horrible out of the box because the first batch had poor tolerances on the lower bushings. They warrantied it (no problems there) and sent the updated lowers with better tolerancing and bleed ports in the back of the lowers. It took a while to set up, but now that I have it where I want, it feels absolutely amazing. It does have some weird quirks though. It definitely took a fair amount of tinkering and adjustment to get right, the rebound barely is open enough in the most open setting and I could see how it may be too slow for some, and I have a slight bit of CSU creak. It took a few years to develop and I know all brands are prone to a bit of CSU creak, although I can't help but wonder with the tolerancing issues of the first batch if that's the reason. I do like that it weighs a fair amount less than the Zeb and 38. I have not ridden either Zeb or 38 though so I would be curious for a comparison.
  • 4 0
 @chakaping: that's the awesome part, I got the expert with the aftermarket IRT and medium/ firm in-betweeny is easier than any fork.
  • 5 9
flag sanchofula (Jun 13, 2024 at 10:55) (Below Threshold)
 I haven't ridden a Fox or RS suspension for over five years, but I have ridden Formula, Cane Creek, MRP, Trust, Motion, and Manitou. If PB can't compare all the forks, then comparing these two is more of less worthless to me.
  • 6 0
 @sanchofula: I get it, they are playing the numbers game because there is a huge audience based on market for Fox / RS reviews. At the same time it sucks because there are amazing alternative products, sometimes better out there that just never get a chance to shine and improve the market because they literally just get shaded out by the big two.
  • 5 1
 @cougar797: Yeah, I suspect you're correct, RS or Fox alone sell more than all the other companies I mentioned.

But I will say this: Anyone who is truly serious about their mountain biking, and has the funds to try other suspensions, would be doing themselves a great favor by thinking outside the box.

If we only use the products that have the largest market share, we miss out on experiencing innovative products that are often better.
  • 3 1
 @tempnoo1: Na its the Zeb with a Smashpot coil that you want. Ridiculously nice fork with HBO
  • 5 2
 @chakaping: also don't forget that you have to actively participate in the 45+ page MTBR threads about how to set up a fork because nobody can get it right, because it's such a superior product.
  • 5 1
 Mezzer, softer off the top than Fox, more supportive than Rockshox. Goldilocks fork.
  • 2 0
 @Takaya94: So ... I had one of these and an open bath avy cart in the damper side. The fork just had too much friction in the sliding bits. Knowing what I know now, i think the bushings just needed burnished or resized. I should have never sold it. That said my mezzer is lighter and still feels amazing.
  • 3 0
 @GumptionZA: I've got a 2023 38 Performance Elite and a 2023 Mezzer Pro. They ride very differently and I can't say which I prefer at this point. The Fox tends to get rid of a bit more trail chatter but the Mezzer feels a lot more composed and manages its end travel better on really chunky stuff. My Mezzer with its steerer cut to 195mm weighs 1971g and my 38 comes in at 2345g. That is a very noticeable weight savings on the front of the bike, particularly when I'm playing around on the trail.

If I was running A-Line all day every day and dealing with bomb holes in berms and taking a lift up. I'd probably keep the 38 on. For more varied riding, Mezzer all day every day. There is a reason my 38 has been hanging on my parts wall for nearly 2 years now.
  • 1 0
 @cueTIP: very interesting thank you. I wonder if maybe a trutune or Diaz insert would solve the shortcomings with the 38 and make it better than the mezzer. Weird about the weight, my mezzer is like 2230g (cries internally)
  • 1 0
 @GumptionZA: Which version of the Mezzer do you have? I've got two Pros and they're both within 10g of each other.
  • 1 0
 @cueTIP: 29in pro Ltd (the silver one)
  • 23 1
 Performance wise both are great forks. Industrial design wise RockShox for the win, their attention to detail in design is top notch.
  • 12 0
 I think the arch on the Zeb is prettier.
  • 3 0
 @tremeer023: agreed
  • 2 0
 I do like that rockshox stuff is built to be stupid ham fisted home mechanic proof.
  • 1 0
 @cougar797: true especially in the oil department where you can pretty much only need one type of oil for the damper and lowers while fox needs like 2 or 3 types of oils
  • 18 0
 Previous generations of Rockshox products were praised for their near inability to be set up 'terribly'. Meaning, the fork or shock's range of adjustment didn't provide the opportunity to suck that much. Is this still the case, or do the updates to the range of damping allow me to screw up with authority?
  • 9 0
 My 38 was definitely bad until set up more properly. My lyrik is always ok, so wonder if the zeb is the same.
  • 2 0
 If a fork can be set up perfectly for a 55kg and for a 110kg rider, it sure can be set up pretty poorly for either of them as well. My advice: don't set up your fork poorly. And if you do, don't blame it on the fork.
  • 1 0
 @vinay:
What about lower end forks that don't really have any adjustment? Only good for certain weight classes?
  • 1 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: Yeah, unless it is a rigid fork I suppose. I think it will super hard to build a fork which has adequate sag for both a 55kg rider as well as a 110kg rider. If the fork does have the option to adjust preload (or exchange springs) then I think you still need to ride carefully if you can't adjust the rebound damping to suit. My first fork (a RockShox Judy TT) had only a coil spring and no damping whatsoever. When going fast, the fork would resonate and go out of control, having caused me a good few bad crashes. I'd say that indeed unless the fork is built for a (narrow) weight class (or people ride really careful), adjustable preload and rebound are essential.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: makes sense. I still think some forks are far less meticulous to set up without resulting in punishing results. RS forks never too much set up to make me happy. my 38 was off a bit and terrible.
  • 1 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: Yeah, then of course by the logic I presented in my first post of course I should wonder, would it be equally possible for both forks to be set up properly for people at the far ends of the spectrum (very light or very heavy)? To me these typical bike product reviewers seem to be in the similar weight and size spectrum so if RockShox produces forks that are already tuned for that narrow band then of course it is going to work great for them without needing much tuning. Interesting would be if magazines would have a very lightweight yet skilled and aggressive rider on board, like Isabeau Courdurier. And there of course comes the point where I'll have to start munching my words as of course she's been riding RockShox suspension for years. Can't say how much these deviate from the stock/aftermarket product of course.

My thinking was more like: if the adjustment range is so wide that it can be very off for one rider, which is the other rider for whom that setting would be perfect. Except of course for the fact that certain combinations of settings would be useless for everyone but that's where a little bit of education comes in. Rebound damping should jive with spring preload and that's something you'll have to do yourself. The only unit where I've seen these be linked somewhat is the Magura MX shock (as it is air damped) and even that one has a rebound dial!
  • 21 2
 Pinkbike chooses fox. People buy fox. Zeb inventory piles up. Price gets slashed. People buy Zeb and declare it better.
  • 3 0
 Very Insightful.
  • 14 0
 Could some one explain FOX messed up prices in the EU, a ZEB seems to cost about the same, assuming USD prices are without tax and EU prices with, but the FOX 38 is over 400€ more then a ZEB?!?!

So for europeans the ZEB always seems like the better buy.
  • 4 0
 Including pricing in some larger or reader target markets would be nice
  • 9 1
 This is something that’s never taken into account with online reviews. The real price of the product not the recommended retail price because in Europe you can buy a Zeb ultimate and Zeb select for the price of a 38 usually.

You can split hairs about the which forks performs the best, there’s obviously not a lot in it but you can’t ignore the fact that Fox are having major issues at the moment. Both companies need to do much better with quality control with forks and shocks from both companies leaving the factory unacceptable condition but Fox is particularly bad at the moment and not only will you be paying significantly more for Fox you won’t get a product that’s as well manufactured to the same quality as RS and will be less reliable, will need more maintenance and doesn’t have as efficient warranty / service department so you’ll have to wait longer for a new fork when your crown starts to creek which are also more likely to occur on Fox crowns but again both need to improve.
  • 5 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I seem to recall a previous PB shootout giving it to the Zeb on price. And when we can get a Zeb for almost half the price of a 38, I'd go along with that.
  • 4 0
 Agreed, in Europe you would have to believe the fox is waaaay better than the Zeb to buy it aftermarket, because the RS prices are way lower most of the time.

Also historically RS forks last much longer and have longer service intervals, so cheaper to run. (This may have changed)
  • 1 1
 then you get the zeb, you need a service out of the box as it feels like a brick, burnish the bushings so it moves and that'll be 150Euro and perhaps another 150Euro for a Luftkappe being too progressive, then it performs like a 38 out of the box
  • 10 0
 Would be cool to see a wider range high end fork shootout. Fox, RS, Ohlins, DVO, Manitou, EXT, Formula.....The Fox RS shootout every year has the be the most boring article on PB....And thats saying something......

My buddy and I both dumped Fox a few years back for DVO (me) and Manitou (him) and aren't going back to Fox anytime soon....
  • 20 8
 Cool but how about Formula, Ohlins, DVO, Marzocchi, Suntour ?
  • 6 0
 Marzocchi is just older rebranded Fox, but I agree with the others!
  • 2 0
 @Marky771: I know but it would be nice if they put on test with zeb and fox 38 other brands too, or they think that rest of the world also rides only fox, rs...
  • 2 0
 DVO is truly one the best companies, and suspension brands I've ever used

Awesome name btw @eldenring
  • 1 0
 @jcmarshall67: Havent tried it yet, altough i would love to... But DVO is hardly serviceable here in EU,
so probably the reason why i don't see it that much. occasionaly in bike parks, but moslty RS, Fox and Marzocchi...

p.s. thanks hiting the trails after work, then coming home and waiting midnight for the DLC. Big Grin
  • 9 0
 Two near identical forks to previous versions get a near identical review to previous reviews. Who would have guessed. The MTB industry is stagnant.
  • 4 3
 No, the industry is not stagnant, what's stagnant is the choices riders make when buying, building, and upgrading their bikes. There are many alternatives to RS and Fox.
  • 1 0
 @sanchofula: no, it's stagnant. even in those said alternatives there's barely anything different from previous versions. trust was practically the only innovative thing happening for suspension forks for pretty much this past decade while every other brand are only pushing for incremental gains, I could say we've reached the peak already and any new fork would only be like a shimstack tune of the previous model
  • 11 2
 Pick a Fox and be a dick about it
  • 8 3
 Ill stick to my ohlins and not have to deal with the 57 clicks in either open or closed. Can someone smart let me know what the binomial coefficient is for the Fox 38. Curious the combination of ways this thing could be set up.
  • 8 1
 I just made my brain hurt and this is what I got....there is 184756 different combinations for setting up the HSC & LSC. Someone please correct me.
  • 8 0
 European prices for both are not close so in that context the Zeb would have to be the winner. €1700 vs €1250
  • 3 0
 And in 3 months the Fox will still cost the same and the Zeb will be in the 900€ range…
  • 3 0
 European Fox pricing is ridiculous. Even those stupid "lower leg removal tools" together (because they have a different one for the damper and air spring side...) cost as much as entry level RS forks a decade ago. They're three (!!!) times as expensive as in the US.
With Manitou, they simply use a thin-wall 8mm socket and a cassette tool...
  • 5 0
 I've ridden quite a few 36/38's with GRIP1/2's as well as a handful of Rockshox products with the Charger 2.1 and 3 dampers. I'm a fairly quick rider in the interior of BC who likes a stiff spring rate and both directions of damping on the open side. Honestly, I have a hard time distinguishing between the brands. Yes, there is a difference, but you would notice significantly larger one by fitting a Luftkappe, burnishing bushings, or even just doing a good service most of the time. I will say RockShox products are far easier to set up than Fox. I find a more noticeable difference between clicks and better range of adjustment in most cases. Also, the ease of service on RockShox products, especially the dampers in both forks and shocks, is a more of a dealbreaker to me. At the end of the day, both products are amazing and there are far more important things to be concerned about on most bikes than a couple clicks of LSC or %2.8 more lateral stiffness.
  • 5 0
 I am a Fox guy, just went that route and know what I like, if someone handed me a Zeb I am sure I would like it just as much. I think 90% of the people on here would notice the difference after initial set up.
  • 8 1
 As above commenters said, I'd like to see how the new DVO 38 stacks up. I've found it to be an excellent fork.
  • 6 0
 DVO, Manitou, Cane Creek, etc. ought to be included in a massive "field test" of forks, IMO. They could visit a shop that has a dyno and get objective and subjective results.
Enduro MTB does similar with brakes: Lab tests, trail tests, and offering opinions on noise/feel/wear to top it off.
  • 3 0
 Agree. New Onyx 38 SL is the best fork I've been on in years....Would love to see a real fork (all brands) shootout....
  • 1 0
 @Marky771: what's the damper noise like please ? Only review I have seen said was it's really loud
  • 1 0
 @crazyknowledge: No more noise than my last Fox....More and more reviews out there. MBA has a long term review video out, and Bikemag had a recent review as well....Both thought the fork was stellar...
  • 1 0
 Head to head with a Suntour 38............
  • 6 0
 Any thoughts on ease of maintenance on these new versions? I could see being swayed by a fork that's easier to wrench on
  • 9 1
 My LBS tells me they can rebuild Rockshox in house but have to send out the Fox units. Another issue was the strange "wear pattern" they see on the Fox "performance" series fork tubes that is not duplicated on Rockshox. Apparently, the Kashima coated tubes don't have the problem. I bought a Zeb.
  • 11 2
 Doing a basic lower leg service on either fork is a fairly simple procedure and doesn't require any proprietary tools. With a little practices it's a sub-30 minute procedure. A full rebuild is more involved, and does require a few tools that most home mechanics probably don't have. Certainly not impossible though, and I'd say the level of effort required to rebuild either fork completely is about the same. Both companies have step-by-step service instructions on their websites.
  • 7 16
flag nvranka (Jun 13, 2024 at 9:07) (Below Threshold)
 @rockvoyager: I’d much rather have the option to send my fork to the factory for a full rebuild if needed.

LBS are clowns 98% of the time.
  • 3 0
 Since the Zeb apparently had the plush/ground-hugging/coil-like descriptors in your review, I was expecting discussion of front wheel traction differences. Was there a traction advantage to the Zeb on flat turns for example?
  • 1 0
 When reading Kaz's work above, he said RS offers a little more traction with that "fluttery" action.
  • 3 0
 I loved the info in this review.

What I find missing are the reasons why the Fox38 was preferred. You may have talked about pieces during the review, but, your conclusion is the time to give us more than “controlled support.” This is lazy af.
  • 5 0
 Is the 25 ZEB as extremely progressive over the last few centimeters as the 23 ZEB?
  • 2 0
 Same airspring, that's what you get when you squeeze 190mm into a limited space, not a lot of volume to deal with it.
  • 1 1
 Release all the air in your main chamber, flip bike upside down, loosen both bottom bolts and tap with mallet, press down lowers until ~25% sag, tighten bolts and put in your appropriate main chamber air.

Completely fixed my 23 and haven't had to touch it in 6 months, full travel despite lowish sag with 180mm travel.
  • 1 0
 How does the 38 airspring compare
  • 3 0
 @Mugen: This is what the bleeder valves are for. No need to go to this much trouble.
  • 2 0
 Well, I bet I will not feel difference in performance of 2 top tier forks, however what I feel is service, since I keep fork/bike at leash few seasons, service part is important.

I find RS easier to service, can push more hours btw service compared to fox product's.
Also Sram in general nailed with look and feel of settings, like u do not need to google what + / - mean's, us see rabbit and turtle
  • 8 1
 disagree, ZEB 100%
  • 6 1
 Let us know which one develops a creaky CSU and leaky seals first. I'm guessing it won't be the Zeb.
  • 1 0
 I’ve had a set of Zeb ultimates during lockdown and they just never felt great. I think they were quite sticky for the first 4 months. The fox 38’s I had after are definitely better. The RXF 36’s I had before were great too. Premature wear was a real issue with the ohlins and I think my foxes may be going the same way. This is something that isn’t mentioned in your tests: 2-3 year lifespans for forks are BS
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer I have heard that some folks preferred the gen 1 ZEB to the gen 2. I for one felt the gen 1 was a little softer off the top, how would you rank the new gen 3 to 1 and 2? Thanks!
  • 8 0
 I'd say the Charger 3.1 damper feels more like the 2.1, which is a good thing. That nice and plush off the top feeling is back, and I'd say it's more comfortable than the previous version (Charger 3).
  • 1 0
 Business is the same GPU. They release one every year with a small improvement. Although, on the GPU, the supposed improvement is easier to measure. It is shock absorber 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1. They will soon launch a 64 bit one.
  • 6 2
 It’s very simple the zebs look amazing and the 38s look awful. Gold on gold that don’t match looks fugly
  • 2 0
 Does Henry run his forks like a non-newtonian fluid? Really interesting to hear if he runs the air spring softer and with few/no spacers and lets the damper handle progression.
  • 1 0
 @90sMTBEnjoyer Haha! For clarity, I've included my full settings in another comment thread just now, if you're curious.
  • 2 1
 Seems to me a lot of this is down to personal preference and/or if you get a good one.
I’ve tried a lot of different set ups and have, for what it’s worth, settled on 38’s on the front and EXT on the back for my Enduro and Levo.
  • 3 2
 PB comments are 98% blah blah, blah of not much use. Anyway since I'm buried in this line of mass texting, I'll say that bushing life on Fox has always been less than RS. Mike has to be good at splitting hairs with words here usually. Yet no time for these guys to report on the practical side of this being, that most riders want the fork to last. For me anyway, RS has always been smoother as Mike mentioned and why not. And mor durable in not having to change the oil as much and well that main thing for me is the bushing last much longer. Some riders have been putting looser fitting bushings for more smoothness which works for a short while, why bother. Some riders will do what they are told and spend money. I just want a fork that stays smoother longer and does not develop play as quickly as my pile of Fox worn out forks that I don't feel like fixing or not worth it to have someone else fix. I see pros getting a new Fox fork all the time and they certainly don't care. I feel the Fox stuff is more for that crowd then the average riders who does not get new stuff all the time. So that's my blah, blah, blah....
  • 3 0
 So 38 is better than zeb, because it’s like the previous zeb, and previous zeb was bad because it wasn’t like the new zeb.
  • 1 0
 Why only test the highest end? thats like testing an f1 car as if any normal person will sit in one. and yeah to be fair consumers can, an a lot do run the top end model. but I feel like the majority of people still run lower end versions and it would be interesting how those compare.
  • 1 0
 So I understand this is testing the top spec fork for each, but I would like to see some downmarket comparisons...

Like the 38 Per-Elite is cheaper and has the same features/functions. So why not even just mention that as a value comparison?

Or even more interesting, the Marzocchi Super Z and a Zeb Select+ as comparisons to Zeb Ult
  • 1 0
 "the 38 has a more immediate, direct feel that lets you know exactly what your front wheel is doing. Henry's analogy was that that that Zeb sucked itself to the ground, and the 38 drove itself into the ground, which I think is fitting."

If that truly sums it all up, the 38 should be an automatic choice. What kind of rider is getting a Zeb or 38 (or even a Lyrik or 36) and wants _less_ feedback on what the front wheel is doing? That's insane. Fun aggressive riding is often all about driving the front wheel through sketchy questionable traction situations, and if the fork is hiding the answers to those traction questions from you... not good.
  • 1 0
 "Interestingly, the rebound circuit of the new Zeb is the same as before, which means it may be the increased oil flow and compression shim stack, or possible the better bushing tolerances that are allowing for that faster return speed."

If could be increased oil flow, since LSC is still a free-bleed and that's open both ways, but it defintitely won't be the compression shim stack because that will be _closed_ during a rebound event.
  • 1 0
 "I'd say the ideal candidate for the Zeb is someone who places grip and comfort higher on their priority list, and doesn't mind a slightly more active feeling front end."

Grip as a priority on a fork that has a distinctly less direct feel and gives less feedback on what the front wheel is doing? That's anti-grip. Maybe being extra "fluttery" gives more marginally more traction in a completely passive situation over small bumps where there isn't a rider giving inputs and making adjustments, but reality is that the rider is never just a passenger, especially in a situation where grip is important.
  • 1 0
 Well. 85kg on bike. Zeb ultimate. Older ones. So I closed HSC. Opened LSC all the way. Opened Rebound almost all the way. Dropped pressure to 61.5. F me if this doesn't feel like a different fork. It tracks better, has muted out a lot of the trail chatter, and it's not spiking on big hits. Previously I was close HSC open. LSC about 5 from fully open. Rebound - 9 from fully closed. 65 psi. The fork just feels like it's doing a lot better now. Placebo! Don't care. The ride today was miles better than I've had this thing in years.
  • 1 0
 As others have said, it's going to come down to personal preference however it's nice to see the Zeb and 38 trading blows over the years. I believe it was the '21 or '22 comparison where PB testers preferred the Zeb over the 38.
  • 5 1
 It kind of amazes me how long the Kashima gold thing has stuck around.
  • 8 3
 what, not very long because it flakes off pretty quickly?

Or do you mean how long fox has stuck with it despite it being demonstrably less durable than a DLC coating?
  • 2 1
 THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!......Oh wait, I guess there can be 2 very high quality competing products. And the consumer benefits from that competition. No. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!
  • 1 0
 Found the same issue with the lifts in Morzine last year. Fox integrated mud guard would pop off of the bleed valves then the valves would work loose and fall out. Fork oil everywhere and dirt in the legs. Not ideal.
  • 1 0
 the bleed valves working loose a result of the mud guard or would it happen anyway? I've never had it on mine yet.
  • 1 0
 I spent a week in Morzine & my Fox 38 bleed valves didn't seem to touch anything? did not even notice them? did i get lucky?
  • 1 0
 @PastizziBoy: It was because my mu guard would foul the lift where the front wheel sits in. The guard would pop off the bleed valves then there was no tension to keep them from unwinding.
  • 4 0
 "Zeb's red, baby" is genius.
  • 2 0
 Pulp Fiction FTW
  • 1 0
 This twist bleed valve is cool. I picked up my 36 fork from a fresh pro service last year, and had it laying on my work bench awaiting install and bled a bunch of oil out. Not ideal
  • 1 0
 What I want to know is which fork is easier to setup, for someone who sucks at getting forks setup. And which is less likely to feel terrible after I've turned all the wrong dials?
  • 1 1
 working in a shop and dealing with fox quite often, I can't say I'd ever buy their products. Crap communication and over a month to get something back from warranty always. They just don't ever seem like the actually care about mtb compared to their bigger products on jeeps, sleds, etc. Sram is dialed in their service department and make everything extremely transparent, especially after touring their CO springs location, they are all bikers through and through and much more supportive in that regard.
  • 1 0
 Gotta love the travel options the Zeb offers. I know I'm fully tempted to put a 150mm Zeb on a trail bike just because I can. I am similarly tempted to build a single crown DH bike with the 190mm version.
  • 1 0
 Gotta love the travel options the Zeb offers. I know I'm fully tempted to put a 150mm Zeb on a trail bike just because I can. I am similarly tempted to build a single crown DH bike with the 190mm version.
  • 2 0
 Despite the damper, was there any change to the ZEB air spring?
It was reported to ramp up excessively, which I can confirm.
Nothing in this article though.
  • 3 0
 Zeb bushing play incoming
  • 1 1
 What happened to RS's put the clickers anywhere you like, and "have a great time"!

Does this mean that actually they were 68% wrong and people weren't having a great time!?

I hope they weren't telling poky pies!
  • 1 0
 To me it is interesting that a lot of tuner can make a rs fork better with buttercups and skf wipers for example. Fox already has skf dust wipers.
  • 1 1
 too many people buy suspension and do fuck all in tuning anyway so I'd say 9 times out of 10 it does not matter which one you choose because you might not know the difference anyway
  • 5 3
 I stay with my Intend Edge fork...
  • 2 0
 I strongly agree
  • 2 0
 That red looks so good. I see red and I want to buy it.
  • 1 0
 I wonder if they both develop the horrid creaking after a year or two? The Zeb Charger 3 version still has it.
  • 2 0
 I guess you spared us Seb's take on this one....now we will never know!!
  • 4 0
 Fox is better than rockshox - that's what all of Sebs reviews say, both on here and when he was reviewing for mbuk.
  • 3 0
 @jaketurbo: you can't hate a guy for knowing what he likes
  • 2 0
 The Zeb is in red and black = the clear winner here.
  • 1 0
 2025? Are these forks from the future?!?! Did Marty just kiss his mother?!?!
  • 2 0
 Red over gold. Every time.
  • 2 0
 Give the people a Dorado review!
  • 2 0
 "...neither fork felt overly harsh" means that they were both still harsh.
  • 1 2
 Just please develop something that doesn't start creaking after 2 months. No more clicks, volume spacers or shims. Every Zeb and 38 I've owned I've had to warranty several times after sometimes a handful of rides.
  • 1 0
 Now I need to see sebs take too with dyno graphs.
  • 1 0
 I would take the zeb for its silence and because it's cheaper
  • 5 9
flag rumblefish255 (Jun 13, 2024 at 8:07) (Below Threshold)
 It’s also lighter and easier to service. And despite what the fox fanboy pinkbike says Rock shox is better
  • 1 0
 Please PB, use chapters in your videos to make navigation easier. Thanks
  • 4 0
 This might help:

00:17 - Intro
00:55 - RockShox Charger 3.1 Overview
02:03 - Fox Grip X2 Overview
03:39 - Setup and Test Lap
09:25 - Ride Impressions
13:18 - Verdict
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Thank you Mike, appreciated!
  • 2 2
 You guys should do an aftermarket mod test. Stock fork vs with a secus/ smashpot and other offerings from push etc...
  • 1 0
 Including Avalanche…
  • 1 0
 Can you make a Domain with mods better than these two....
  • 4 7
 Fox still comes with a pinch bolt, therefore its out the running!!!

When are trail/Enduro forks going to go 20mm or Dh forks 15mm and put us out of our misery!

Then go to the rear and make 148mm boost pretty much standard too for the same reason.
  • 1 1
 I agree it’s a right pita if you need to take the front wheel of to transport your bike to every ride
  • 1 1
 Agree. Truck has a fork mount so the pinch bolt gets old. Also the zeb can run torque caps which make a noticeable difference in steering precision for this large human. And there’s also the fact that every Fox product I’ve owned got warranteed.
  • 3 0
 If you run QR you only need to set it once!
  • 1 0
 There's a QR axle available but it looks like it's now only standard fitment on OEM forks.
  • 3 1
 Zeb all day
  • 2 1
 lets see the dorado review
  • 1 0
 Are the new bleeder valves backwards compatible?
  • 1 0
 What are you doing with your right hand Henry? We all want to know!
  • 1 0
 Sticker on the table faces the wrong way.
  • 1 0
 The zeb looks cooler though
  • 1 2
 Testing this fork on an Orange????? Oh the humanity. Can't wait for the keyboard warrior comments.
  • 2 1
 Fork off, y'all!
  • 1 1
 *It's a
  • 1 3
 There is one innovator and one attempted clone. You know which is which
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