Specialized S-Works Enduro 29 - Review

Mar 23, 2017 at 16:33
by Mike Kazimer  



2017 marks the 18th anniversary of the Specialized Enduro, an impressive milestone in an industry that sees bike models come and go in the blink of an eye. Just think, if the Enduro were a teenager in the US it would now be eligible to vote, buy rifles, cigarettes, dirty magazines, and get drafted into the military.

Of course, the very first Enduro had 26” wheels, but back in 2013 Specialized unleashed a 29” wheeled version into the world, skipping right over the 27.5” wheelsize that was being heralded as 'the next big thing.' The first Enduro 29 was more forward-thinking than anyone really realized, and it's only over the course of the last two seasons that the number of longer travel 29ers has truly begun to grow, spurred on in part by the widespread acceptance of 1x drivetrains, and the increasing number of tire and fork options suitable for aggressive riders.
Specialized Enduro 29 Details

• Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
• Travel: 165mm
• 29" wheels
• Full carbon frame
• 66° head angle
• 432mm chainstays
• 12 x 148mm rear spacing
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Weight (size L): 29.5lb (13.4 kg)
• Colors: Graphite / Black, Hyper / Red
• Price: $8,500 USD / $3,500 frame only
www.specialized.com

There are a total of four models for the Enduro 29: the S-Works and Pro, which have full carbon frames, the Elite, which uses a carbon front triangle and an alloy rear end, and the full-alloy Comp. The number of sizes has been increased, and the bike is now available in S, M, L, and XL.

The S-Works version tested here is the top-of-the-line option, with a full Öhlins suspension package, SRAM Eagle XX1 drivetrain, Roval carbon wheels, and a price to match, to the tune of $8500. For riders who aren't quite ready to sell a kidney in order to afford all that bling, the Enduro Pro is $6500, the Elite is $4500, and the alloy Comp is $3200.


Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review
The distinctive X-Wing frame shape remains, as does the yoke-mounted rear shock, in this case Ohlins' STX 22.
Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review
There's now a 73mm threaded bottom bracket, and internal cable routing, with a perfectly placed rubber grommet to keep the brake line from rubbing on the frame.


Frame Details

Thanks to some cleverly manipulated images that appeared in the months prior to the launch of the new Enduro, many riders expected it to resemble the Demo 8, with its futuristic one-sided design. Specialized did consider going down that route, but instead ended up with a bike that's not too far removed from the previous version, although there have been some welcome changes, including the addition of a threaded bottom bracket shell.

Along with moving away from a pressfit bottom bracket, Specialized also tucked the derailleur and brake housing into the frame rather than running it under the downtube. The lines run through tubes molded into the carbon fiber, which prevents any annoying rattling and makes maintenance less of a hassle


Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review
The swingarm brace has been removed, but the carbon seatstays have been bulked up to preserve the frame's stiffness.
Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review
There's plenty of room in the downtube to store a tube, pump, and a few snacks.

The seatstay design was altered slightly, and along with making the switch from an alloy to a full carbon rear end, there's no longer a brace connecting the two sides of the swingarm. In order to make sure that this didn't reduce the frame's stiffness, Specialized reinforced the portion of the arm that's connected to the rocker link. They also made the decision to use the same size bearings for all of the Enduro's pivot points, simplifying things for consumers and shops when it comes time for an overhaul.

The Enduro also gets Specialized's SWAT system, a pack rat's dream setup that allows the inside of the downtube to be used for storing whatever you can fit in there—just don't forget to take out that half-eaten tuna sandwich at the end of a ride. In addition to the storage compartment, there's a multi-tool mounted to the bottle cage, and a spare quick link and chain breaker are hidden underneath the stem's top cap. It may seem a little gimmicky, but it's anything but—there's something to be said about being able to fill up a water bottle and head out on a ride without needing to wear a pack.


Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review

Suspension Design

No surprise here—the Enduro 29 still relies on the proven Horst Link suspension layout for its 165mm of travel, with the rear shock mounted to a yoke that wraps around the seat tube. What is a little surprising, though, is that Specialized decided to hold off on going with metric shock spacing, at least for now—a 216 x 57mm Öhlins STX 22 handles the rear suspension duties. There's also a coil sprung version of the Enduro available, for riders who want to keep up with what the cool kids on the EWS circuit are doing.


Geometry

Specialized Enduro 29 geometry


Specialized didn't need to go too wild when they updated the Enduro 29's geometry, but they did slacken the head angle to 66-degrees, versus the previous versions' 67.5-degree head angle. The seat tube was steepened by one degree to 76, and the chainstay length grew ever-so-slightly to 432mm.




Specifications
Specifications
Price $8500
Travel 165mm
Rear Shock Custom Öhlins STX, 216x57mm
Fork Öhlins RXF 36, air sprung, 160mm travel
Cassette SRAM XG-1295, 12-speed, 10-50t
Crankarms SRAM XX1 Eagle, 30t chainring
Chainguide Specialized
Bottom Bracket SRAM GXP XR, 73mm
Rear Derailleur SRAM XX1 Eagle, 12-speed
Chain SRAM XX1 Eagle
Shifter Pods SRAM XX1 Eagle, 12-speed, trigger
Handlebar Specialized DH, carbon, 27mm rise, 780mm, 31.8mm
Stem Syntace MegaForce 2
Grips Specialized Sip Grip
Brakes SRAM Guide RS, carbon levers, 200mm front / 180mm rear rotor
Hubs Roval Traverse SL, DT Swiss Star Ratchet, 54t engagement
Rim Roval Traverse SL 29, hookless carbon
Tires Specialized Butcher front / Slaughter rear, Grid casing, 2.3"
Seat Body Geometry Henge Expert, hollow titanium rails, 143mm
Seatpost Command Post IRcc, 125mm travel






Specialized Enduro 2017 Review





Climbing

Increasing the travel on the Enduro 29 could easily have turned it into a sluggish pig on the climbs—after all, 165mm of travel and big wheels doesn't exactly sound like the recipe for speeding uphill. Luckily, that's not the case, and the Enduro performed very well during both technical and not-so-technical climbs. There is a slight amount of suspension movement during out of the saddle efforts, but it's certainly not enough to be distracting. The relatively steep seat angle creates a more forward, upright, and centered position, which makes it easier to keep the front end weighted and on the ground no matter how steep the ascent. Even after I swapped out the stock 60mm stem for something shorter to match my personal preference there wasn't any unwanted front wheel lifting or wandering.

There are three high-speed compression positions on the Öhlins STX 22, along with a blue dial for adjusting the amount of low-speed compression, but the difference between each setting isn't as dramatic as what you'd find on either a Fox Float X or a RockShox Monarch Plus. I settled on running the shock in the middle setting for the vast majority of the time—it provided enough support for climbing, while remaining supple enough for climbing or descending through chunky terrain.

Specialized Enduro 29 review

bigquotesThere's something about having a seemingly endless amount of travel that's tough to beat when it comes time to plow through chewed up, bomb-hole filled sections of trail.

Descending

For as much travel as the Enduro 29 has it's still very manageable, so much so that I affectionately started calling it the BFG (Big Friendly Giant). The combination of a 66-degree head angle and 432mm chainstays adds up to a bike that's capable of plunging down the steepest descents, but still remains maneuverable at slower speeds. Of course, the handling isn't as snappy as the Stumpjumper 29, its shorter travel sibling, but it's still quick when it needs to be. Unlike a bike like Nukeproof's Mega 290, it's not as crucial that you keep things fully pinned at all times—you don't need to be harboring dreams of Enduro World Series glory to have fun on the Enduro 29. Getting the front wheel up and manualing through sections of trail was a breeze, and lifting the back wheel up for rapid direction changes didn't pose any problems either.

I'm a big fan of the latest batch of shorter-travel 29ers, but spending time on the Enduro reminded me that there's something about having a seemingly endless amount of travel that's tough to beat when it comes time to plow through chewed up, bomb-hole filled sections of trail—that extra cushion let me get away with making bad decisions on more than one occasion. No matter whether I was rolling through webs of slippery roots or navigating a steep section of trail that required heavy braking, the rear suspension felt very neutral and predictable - there's a reason the Horst Link design is so popular.

The Öhlins STX 22 shock delivered a plush, bottomless feel, sucking up every harsh landing and poor line choice without skipping a beat. The Enduro has a fairly linear suspension curve, but there was enough ramp up at the end of the stroke that I never experienced any harsh bottoming out. Although the shock is equipped with Specialized's AutoSag feature, I found that the resulting setting was a little soft for my liking, and ended up setting it up manually with 30% sag.

Up front, the RXF 36 fork was a smooth operator that's still supple and silent even after months of regular mud baths. I ran 110 psi in the fork's main chamber, and 135 in the ramp-up chamber for my 160 lb weight. I'd probably increase the amount of ramp up in drier conditions, which is done by adding air via a Schrader valve on the underside of the fork, but in the mud and muck those numbers worked well to provide enough small-bump compliance and traction. Although the Öhlins name gives the RXF 36 or the STX 22 an aura of exoticness, I wouldn't say either one is head and shoulders above the current offerings from Fox and RockShox, but they're certainly in the same performance bracket, and leave little reason to upgrade.

Specialized Enduro 2017 Review
Trek Slash review

Specialized Enduro vs Trek Slash

I've been lucky enough to have spent a good amount of time on both the Enduro 29 and Trek's new Slash over the last few months, so it seemed worth taking a moment to go over how those two compare on the trail. On paper, the two bikes aren't far off when it comes to geometry, with similar chainstay and reach measurements, although the Slash has a 1-degree slacker head angle, and 15mm less rear travel. There's also the fact that you can't do bar spins on the Slash due to the Knock Block system, and you can fill the downtube of the Enduro with Twinkies if you'd like.

As far as overall climbing performance goes, I'd say the Enduro edges out the Slash due in part to its steeper seat angle—it's a more comfortable position for extended uphills. Both bikes pedal best after flipping a lever to increase the amount of compression damping, but the Enduro doesn't seem to go quite as far into its travel during standing pedaling efforts.

While neither bike will hold you back when it comes to making mincemeat of technical terrain, there is a distinct difference in how they feel on the descents. Comparing the Enduro to the Slash is like comparing a 4-door luxury sedan to a sporty coupe. It doesn't take much encouragement to get either bike up to speed, but the Enduro is a little plusher on really rough sections of trail, with a more forgiving feel than the race-bred Slash. The Slash works best when you take charge and keep your weight over the front wheel, while the Enduro is a bit more tolerant of less aggressive riders. Both bikes will happily get airborne when the opportunity arises, and I wouldn't hesitate to take either one into the bike park for some lift-served laps.




Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review
The carbon Roval Traverse SL wheels held strong for the duration of the test.
Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review
With a 30-tooth ring up front and a 10-50 tooth cassette in the rear you'll have a hard time ever justifying pushing the Enduro S-Works up a hill.


Component Check

• Specialized Roval Traverse SL Wheels: I had nothing but positive experiences when I reviewed the 27.5-inch Roval Traverse wheels a couple of seasons ago, and the same holds true for the 29” version. They're nice and wide, with a 30mm internal width, light, quick engaging, and hit the sweet spot of being stiff but not harsh.

• SRAM XX1 Eagle Drivetrain: Constantly riding in mud and grit can be punishing for a drivetrain, but the 12-speed Eagle group handled it all without any issues. I can see some riders bumping up to a 32- or 34-tooth chainring over the 30-tooth ring that's spec'd, but that smaller ring does help to take the sting out of those extra-steep climbs.

• Specialized Slaughter tire:Winter was particularly harsh in the Pacific Northwest this year, which meant that most of my rides involved mud, rain, and more snow than usual, and on more than one occasion building an ark seemed like a better idea than heading outside. For that reason, I ended up swapping the Specialized Slaughter semi-slick rear tire and installing something with a little meatier tread. The Slaughter is a great option for drier conditions, but for winter riding I'll take all the grip I can get.

Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review
The Command Post works well, although it'd be nice to see a 150mm option... Rumor has it Specialized might have something on the way.
Specialized Enduro 29 2017 Review
The Guide RS brakes have plenty of power and good modulation, but where's the pad contact adjust dial?


What's Missing?

Specialized's S-Works bikes are meant to be the pinnacle of what's available, equipped with the highest-end frame and components for riders in search of the best of the best. For the most part, the Enduro 29 reflects that—carbon wheels, Öhlins suspension front and rear, an XX1 Eagle drivetrain—but there are two exceptions worth mentioning

The first is the 125mm dropper post. On a bike with big wheels and 165mm of travel, the last thing you want is for the seat to get in the way when dropping into a rowdy line. The bike's steep seat angle exaggerates the reduced amount of drop, putting the saddle in a position where it's even more of a hindrance. Specialized aren't the only ones guilty of spec'ing their highest end all-mountain bike with a 125mm dropper post—Trek does the same thing on their Slash 29 – but at the very least, I'd like to see the large and XL sizes come with a 150mm dropper post. Specialized's Command post does work very well, and the lever is one of the best out there, but an extra 25mm of travel would be much appreciated.

My second gripe has to do with the SRAM Guide RS brakes. Yes, the levers have been upgraded to carbon, but for me, the ability to adjust the pad contact point is more important than saving a few grams. The Guide RSC model, or the Ultimates would have been a better choice, especially considering the bike's asking price.


Specialized Enduro 29 review


Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesSpecialized didn't go off the deep end with the new Enduro, but that's because they didn't need to. The previous version was far enough ahead of its time that refinements rather than massive revisions were all that was necessary. Even with a slacker head angle and more travel, the Enduro is still an incredibly well-rounded bike, one that can just as easily serve as an enduro race machine as it can a daily driver. Mike Kazimer








About the Reviewer
Stats: Age: 34 • Height: 5'11" • Inseam: 33" • Weight: 160lb • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Twenty-two years deep into a mountain biking addiction that began as a way to escape the suburban sprawl of Connecticut, Mike Kazimer is most at home deep the woods, carving his way down steep, technical trails. The decade he spent as a bike mechanic helped create a solid technical background to draw from when reviewing products, and his current location in the Pacific Northwest allows for easy access to the wettest, muddiest conditions imaginable.



327 Comments

  • + 227
 Threaded bottom bracket!
  • + 44
 unbelievable... but it's true, it's far the best BB.
  • + 9
 What? You ran the shock in the middle setting?
  • - 77
flag Pmrmusic26 (Mar 27, 2017 at 9:21) (Below Threshold)
 PF is cool, saves weight.
  • + 50
 A threaded bottom bracket would have me sold on a bike if I had to choose. Props to Specialized.
  • - 83
flag jclnv (Mar 27, 2017 at 9:59) (Below Threshold)
 For anyone with an gram of mechanical know how pressfit is just fine and probably superior.
  • + 44
 I came to the comments to make this very comment. PF BB is shite
  • + 19
 "You can´t do barspins on the slash "
... Le me riding enduro when suddenly a barspin comes out of nowhere... said me never
  • + 31
 @jclnv: Anyone who's ever worked on a bike knows that pressfit is a costly pain in the ass when it comes time to replace it.
  • + 20
 Worth $8500 on its own.
  • + 7
 @TugboatComplex: I'll sell you a BSA frame. The bottom bracket will be $8500 but I'll throw the rest of it in for free! You're practically making money! Pm me for details!
  • - 3
 @therage43: I ride both and I can't tell a difference other than the looks
  • + 14
 @mhoshal: Have you ever removed one? How about replacing bearings? How about swapping out for a different crank that has a totally different BB configuration? The PF is a PITA to work on, when compared to it's threaded brethren. The only gain you get from the PFBB is seen on the manufacturing side. There is zero benefit in daily use or maintenance.
  • - 1
 @mnorris122: Why? You can make a press for $10.
  • + 10
 @jclnv: It is easy enough to work on PF BB the problem is any deviation from manufacturing tolerance leads to creaking and the part has to be replaced enough that you run the risk of ovalization and material deformation over time.
  • + 23
 @therage43: I've been riding both for about 4 years now and I don't really see the difference either. I've replaced the PF 3 times because I felt the bearings were due. Ive got the park tool removal tool and press. takes me about 5 mins. has never creaked.
Sure, its a little more difficult to replace than a threaded BB, but not as difficult as people make it out. Perhaps its more a case of people not having the right tools and techniques rather than a problem with the system itself.
  • + 2
 I have a threaded BB bike now, but used to have a Kona Process with a PF92. Press fit is way better. takes one second to remove with a hammer, takes 3 seconds to install with a hammer. Who used a press? No threads to get all mangled, no creaking.

There is a big difference between PF92 (plastic cups, no creaking) and BB30 (bearings straight into frame).
  • + 15
 @jclnv: My Chris King Threaded BB has been on 4 different bikes over the last Ten years and hasn't ever squeaked. Why fix what isn't broken?
  • + 1
 @iantmcg: Thats why the cups have to be compressible plastic. Manufacturing tolerance was the issue initially but once they improved upon that, no issues in my 2016 bikes.
  • - 3
 @Bikethrasher: because the diameter is tiny and not especially compatible with carbon frames. You have a large, weak, void between the BB shell and frame material.
  • + 6
 @mhoshal: Yup. This will be year #4 on the same PF92 BB. No issues at all. Gets ridden 7 months of the year on a 6" AM bike. We did swap cranks on the GFs PF BB bike and had to swap in a new BB. No issues with that. I don't really care if a bike comes with a PF or threaded BB.
  • + 4
 @therage43: PF are basically just as easy as threaded when you know what you're doing and invest in the proper tools.
  • + 5
 @vikb: ya man I've been running PF since 2012 and I've never had issues. I think it's just young kids whining about something they know nothing about.
  • + 1
 if only other companies followed the same path
  • + 1
 Spesh should give me a new frame in apology for the pf30 I have on my '15
  • + 6
 I like threaded cuz I have the wrench
  • + 1
 At last! My previous spez camber had 4 PF BB's in less than 2 years...sold the bike for that reason
  • + 166
 165mm travel, 66 deg HA, Ohlins, Eagle, murdered, 780mm bar, carbon wheels...
Looks great and checks most boxes...
...and that Storage for Weed And Tools (SWAT) compartment is cleaver.
  • + 1
 except they didn't put xx1 cassette and chain.
  • + 2
 Yeah but if you stored Tools in there it would take up room for the other stuff
  • + 16
 Ive found two lids, with the bottle holders, of the swat compartments out on the trail. Im guessing they fall off easy.
  • - 33
flag Trekslash360 (Mar 27, 2017 at 12:25) (Below Threshold)
 Classic pothead comment. Can't get the kushoff the mind!
  • + 25
 Tools as in pipe, bubbler, zig zags, cigarillos, portable vaporizer, apple, banana, used water bottle with two uniquely placed holes in it....
  • - 13
flag Trekslash360 (Mar 27, 2017 at 12:31) (Below Threshold)
 @o2a6k: ya buddy your all there.....
  • + 2
 I'm pretty sure the review established it's Space With All Twinkies
  • + 28
 Okay I can come up with 420 reasons not to put tools in there
  • + 4
 @properp: i guess you like high trails
  • + 2
 @barzaka: i like all trails just not equally
  • + 13
 I can only hope one of my friends buys one of these, so I can secretly fill the storage compartment with fishing weights.
  • + 4
 The BB is too high
  • + 6
 @aoneal Storage for Weed and Twinkies!
  • + 2
 @DaFam4mDena: duct tape will fix that 8500$ bike right up.
  • + 115
 Love the compare and contrast with Slash. Wouldn't kick either bike out the garage that's for sure.
  • + 83
 Best review in a long time from Pinkbike solely because of the comparison. We need more comparos!'
  • - 29
flag WAKIdesigns (Mar 27, 2017 at 8:41) (Below Threshold)
 @PHeller: yea but to say that Enduro is plusher is a bit weird quite frankly. Turn up compression on that Enduro mate... like people who want a poppy bike - ever heard of rebound adjustment?! Or getting a proper damper that doesn't go through travel like CTD?
  • + 6
 Twinkies in the downtube for da win!!!!!!!!!
  • + 6
 @WAKIdesigns: Where you using the swat compartment for something other than tools before writing this?
  • + 1
 @PHeller: no compari no pardey! Ask george!
  • + 1
 A bit condervative to measure it against the trek. Why not the yt jeffsy?
  • + 9
 @mikkel: is there really anyone who thinks that he can do something on Enduro that he cannot do on a Jeffsy? Or is there just a bunch of folks who just enjoy watching an underdog peeing straight in the face of the big boy? Maybe a bunch of folks who want to feel better about themselves because they to say that people on expensive bikes are stupid?

What I mean is... 99% of bikes are extremely capable these days and in rational terms, the difference between 3k alu bike and 10k carbon super weapon has never been smaller. The difference between Jeffsy and S-Works Enduro is expressed in astronomical unit called Magnitude of First World Problems In Mind of a White Male.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: is there anyone who really believes a single word this ignorant ebike loving troll post
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns:
I've just sold my year old jeffsy pro and have the Ltd edition coil enduro. They are night and day apart.

The jeffsy is a playful nimble trail bike.
The enduro is a downhill slayer.

Personally I would have both - horses for corses - but these bikes are very different.
  • + 52
 I like how Specialized owned up to the fact that for the vast majority of riders, the marginal gains in stiffness from a pressfit BB just aren't worth the added headaches and maintenance difficulty and costs. Kudos to them for moving back to threaded, and a big middle finger to the rest of the industry for continuing to push the pressfit scam.
  • - 15
flag pigit77 (Mar 27, 2017 at 12:01) (Below Threshold)
 some people were not buying the 2015 or the 2016 enduro's because they had pf bb's, and instead bought bikes like the nomad. specialized being the greedy c*nts they are; realized this and shoved a threaded into the new one just for the money. if pushing the pf bb scam would work, specialized would have never went back to threaded.
  • + 39
 Specialized gets crap for being a huge company, but the finishing details like the swat compartment look extremely well done and actually useful rather than gimmicky. I test rode a lesser version and it performed great. I am considering replacing my Wreckoning with this beast.
  • + 17
 Yeah, that..... AND they deserve a lot more credit for blazin trails and taking the gamble on long travel 29ers four years ago. Could have easily jumped on 27.5 wheels and sold a cr@p ton of those... But instead they brought something new to the game...
  • - 52
flag Trekslash360 (Mar 27, 2017 at 12:27) (Below Threshold)
 You do know both trek and specialised are both own by giant. And trek brings in 900 million per year and specialised brings in 400 million. Btw giant make a and annual of 1.8 billion
  • + 24
 @Trekslash360: Trek and Spesh are absolutely not owned by Giant. They may make use of Giant's production facilities for certain products, but that's it.
  • + 6
 @Trekslash360: er, what?
"In 2001, Merida bought 49% of Specialized for a reported US$30 million, although its CEO and founder Mike Sinyard remained majority owner.[3][4]"
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merida_Bikes
  • + 6
 @Mojo348: LOL blazing a trail, something new? You need to expand your bike knowledge outside the world of Specialized.

There were small companies making long travel 29er LONG before Specialized did.

They skipped 605B out of arrogance, flat out said there was no point in 605B 29er was better.

The market said otherwise and they had to play catch up
  • + 2
 Meh. Some of us still think there's not really any point except that people were just bored w/ 26," IMHO
  • - 21
flag Trekslash360 (Mar 27, 2017 at 14:47) (Below Threshold)
 @Altabird: you people are clueless
  • + 5
 @Pynchonite: I can see believing that if you entirely ignore the history of mountain bikes.
  • - 6
flag Trekslash360 (Mar 27, 2017 at 14:49) (Below Threshold)
 @toooldtodieyoung: yeah trust wiki.....
  • + 2
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: More just cynical about peoples' attention spans.
  • + 2
 @Trekslash360: he did it with a lithium ion battery on a hiking trail going the wrong direction in a nature preserve
  • + 8
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: Just because a small company made something doesn't make them a pioneer. If it went nowhere, then what good was it? The 2014 Enduro 29 absolutely brought the long-travel 29er into relevance. It wasn't the first long-travel 29er, but it was the first EXCELLENT long travel 29er. The first one that made even hardened haters stop and think.

You are right about 650b, though i'm surprised that more guys here don't side with Specialized on that one. I see so many "26 fo life yo" guys here and that's exactly what Spec's attitude was towards 650b - it's just a gimmick, if you want something bigger go 29er, otherwise what's the point? They said 29er was better because THEIR 29ers WERE better...still are in fact.

Specialized is an a-hole of a company but despite all the (justified) haters, the truth is they make some of the absolute best bikes in the business.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven:
They are still pioneers and yes there were good long travel 29er before the Enduro.

Just because the smaller companies aren't household names doesn't diminish their accomplishments. They thought outside the box and considering Specialized R&D budget- it goes without saying it's sad it took them so long since they pushed 29er hard.

Stating that their bikes are some of absolutely the best is a stretch, just like stating your opinion as fact is.

Before you attack me, yes I've had several Specialized bikes- used to like them until I took a demo ride on something else- that was an eye opening experience and I haven't been back.
  • + 1
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: yeah, i think they pretty much said about 650b at the time 'we'll only change to 650b when customer demand calls for it', which I'm pretty sure is corporate speak for 'you sure about that son? They're only slightly bigger'.
  • + 1
 @Trekslash360: You couldn't be more wrong...
  • + 3
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: I didn't say "good" long-travel 29er's, I said "excellent". The type of bike that changes perception, and turns haters into accepters and even fans.

"Stating that their bikes are some of absolutely the best is a stretch."

Not a stretch at all when literally every single review agrees.

I've had Specialized bikes, then went to others (and loved them too) then went back to Spec, then went back to others, and still came back to Spec...and still will try others. What i've learned is that there's alot of great bikes out there, and that Spec still builds some of the best bikes in the business. It sounds like you are saying that Specialized is not for you. That's cool.
  • + 0
 @Trekslash360: trek are owned by a investment company which also own Marin, spesh and Merida own each other.
  • + 3
 @enduroFactory: No they're not. Trek are owned by the Burke family... as in Dick Burke, founder of Trek.
  • + 1
 @Justmatthew: thought they sold the company or part of it.
  • + 1
 @enduroFactory: Nope. still a family owned business. They may have some small, private investors, but they are not owned by anyone.
  • + 41
 No barspins on the Slash? Tips the scales for me.
  • + 6
 What on earth Trek is thinking we don't do barspins anymore.
  • + 17
 The main reason I bought this bike is that they strongly implied in the vital press release that a beer would fit in the swat box. Well it doesn't, not even close. Otherwise the bike is sick!
  • + 14
 Beer and Bud are not the same thing. The reviews said plenty of room for your bud
  • - 2
 @properp: Actually, what "bud" means depends on where you live in the US.
  • + 2
 Wouldn't your beer get too shook up in the frame? I think throwing it in a hydration pack/fanny pack/ bib pocket would be much smoother for the beer
  • + 3
 @TheRaven: you must live in a different United States than me
  • - 7
flag TheRaven (Mar 27, 2017 at 13:04) (Below Threshold)
 @properp: Or it could be that you just haven't traveled as much as I have. Either one.
  • + 15
 @hellbelly "You can get an Evil Wreckoning with the XO1 Eagle kit (only house brand components are the grips and the seat collar) and a custom Push 11.6 shock for less than the cost of the Slash 29. Plus no pressfit bottom bracket, choice of dropper length, two colors to choose from and you could still throw in a custom E13 chainguide and have money left over"

My above comment regarding the Trek still holds true with the Enduro. Yeah, yeah, I know...Ohlins, threaded BB, SWAT, yada, yada. However, for anyone that has not had the chance to ride the Evil, do so. The suspension is phenomenal and the geometry is dialed like nothing else out there. Believe the hype. As a former 29er hater this says a lot.
  • + 7
 Yes!

I just bought a Wreckoning, and f'ing love it.

I was also considering the Yeti SB5.5, Pivot Switchblade, and the new Enduro. Came down to price: whether frame or complete build, the Evil was a lot cheaper. I ended up building it custom, and the lack of any weird standards made it a lot easier.

I never got a chance to ride the new Enduro, but the Evil pedals better than I expected, and absolutely bombs downhill. Its almost cheating. The bike doesn't give a shit.

I'd love to see a review here on PB, especially with the inclusion of comps like this review. The new Enduro looks awesome, so I'm wondering how they compare.
  • + 4
 I own a Wreckoning and have demoed the Spec. I'm thinking about switching. Spec pedals and brakes better, and the finishing details like the Swat door and water bottle mounts are great. I'm sure spec is lighter too, as my Wreckoning is quite heavy (7.9lbs, large w/Monarch).
  • + 3
 Ive heard great things about the wreckoning. I pulled the trigger on a yeti 5.5 which has been nothing short of phenomonal, but i always like to try different bikes. The wreckoning is on my list!
  • + 3
 @dthomp325: good to read this as I've been on the other side - bought a '17 E29 Pro and it was stolen - I've been seriously considering a Wreck to replace it with but haven't talked to enough people with experience with both to help me decide.
  • + 3
 @Paxx: Wreckoning is a great bike overall, I'm happy with it, but I think the Enduro knocks it out of the park with that next level of refinement and getting all the details perfect.
  • + 1
 @Paxx: @gooutsidetoday: All I can say is ride it. I agree with you @dthomp325 Speshy's details are impressive, but personally I have never liked the feel of FSR/Horst-link suspensions. I've ridden/demoed them for years and while they've improved immensely since I first rode one in '98, they just aren't my thing. The most impressive suspension designs out there today IMHO are the DW-link (especially Ibis' take on it), Banshee's KS-link (very similar to the DW) and the DELTA. The DELTA accomplishes an amazing spring curve and resulting feel with a simple single pivot wheel path.
  • + 1
 @hellbelly: that's the tough part - finding somewhere to try one! I'm definitely super interested.

I tried emailing Evil last week to find out where there might be a shop near me (BC interior) that might have a demo available but I still haven't heard back yet. Really can't justify a purchase like that without swinging a leg over one first.

Not to say that I would choose it over the E29, because I really do love the Enduro, but it certainly has me intrigued!
  • + 2
 @dthomp325: I definitely agree with the refinements of the Enduro - everything about this bike is so polished and clean. I kept mine in the living room for months after I bought it just so I could admire the detail.

That is until the gf finally had enough and made me store it somewhere else ha ha!
  • + 1
 @Paxx: Evil lists Chainline in Kelowna as a dealer, but who knows what they have? If you find yourself in the Atlanta, Georgia metro Blue Mountain Bikes has a bunch of Evil bikes for demo. The hillbillies down here will show you a real nice time. Wink

Moving on, one thing that is particularly noticeable about the Evil is how low it is. I'm taking about not only the BB height, but the shock position and stand over height. There have been few 29er's that I've ever felt like I wasn't sitting on a bar stool after being over served. The Wrecker (and every other Evil I've demoed) is the complete opposite of that in that you are way "down in" the bike. Their handling is surreal.
  • + 2
 @hellbelly: I tried popping into chainline but they are really just a Marin dealer who were middle-manning a deal between Evil and a customer so Evil made them a dealer ha ha. They said they've never even had one in the showroom because they are too expensive lol.

Guess I could try and talk my girl into a "romantic weekend getaway" to Seattle... ????
  • + 1
 @jerrytek: demoed wreckoning and enduro.
Bought th enduro coil version.

Wreckoning had a few niggles - seat angle is too slack so peddling wasn't great. Chainstay is very high so you can't run anything lower than a 32 up front. Stack is quite high - wreckoning feels taller.

Going down hill they perform very similar. The wreckoning feels a bit more poppy, but that could be down to the coil on the enduro. Enduro deals with repetitive hits way better and suspension performance under breaking.

Both ace but Enduro wins all round for me
  • + 1
 @Richt2000: huh, Wreck has 75 seat angle, it feels good to me. Stack also seems good, I'm not sure how much shorter it can get. I run a 30t oval ring. The chain only touches if you are in the smallest cog and the suspension is un-sagged, and even then it barely slides over the chain protector.

Haven't noticed any issues with repeated hits, but I agree that the Enduro brakes better.

I wonder if you were running the Wreck with too much sag? That could cause the seat angle to be slack, bad performance on repeated hits, and the front end to feel high relative to the back.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325:
Wreck's effective seat angle may be 75ish, but the actual seat angle, the angle of the top 1/2 of the seat tube is very slack - 63 degrees or near. This meana if you have long legs but ahort torso, the saddle has to be raised up, slackening off the effective seat angle considerably. Same with Slash 29.

Sorry - this only effects people with long legs. Average proprtional people won't have this issue.

Dont get me wrong, I loved my following, but doesn't suit my proportions.
  • + 13
 I bought the aluminum version. Its pretty good. 3 reasons. Best spec for the price, only 6" plus 29" in aluminum again to keep the price down and third, they hired Miranda M.
  • + 4
 So is the alloy version with the won't-cost-you-a-kidney suspension bits similarly well rounded as Mike describes the S-Works? As in, do you find it to be more responsive/poppy/playful/climb-friendly than you'd expect with that much travel?
  • + 6
 @g-42: Have a '17 E29 Comp. Phenomenal price in my opinion, it doesn't pop off things like my 120mm bike did, but don't expect it too. Its pretty plush, no issues getting it around. Climbs way better than I anticipated, so much so I sold my short travel 29er and running E29 as my trail bike.

Its fun as in a holy s*** I'm flying through this section, definitely sits on the plusher side of the equation though I think.
  • + 2
 @Nizhoni: What short travel 29er was that, just for reference?
  • + 2
 @Nizhoni: what short travel bike did you have before? And how is the acceleration when you hammer the pedals on your new Enduro?
  • + 3
 @g-42: Spec Camber 29 Carbon. 120 rear, 130mm Pike up front.
  • + 3
 @Nizhoni: That sounds like a pretty rocking bike. It seems to me like there's a bit of a creeping towards a little more suspension in each category, with no apparent drawbacks. Mid-travel trail bikes have gone from 120-130mm to 135-140. Short travel 29ers seem to be going up a bit in travel. Etc. Etc. Perhaps it's just part of every category becoming more capable over time, or perhaps it's because they've all been able to make the penalty for more squish less severe with better forks and shocks, and more refined suspension leverage curves.
  • + 1
 @g-42: To be honest, I rode a 160 around for a bit and it felt in the same category as my 120 29er. After changing it to a 180mm air spring shaft it felt dramatically different. IMO anything 120-160 sort of all feels related to each other (not the same but related), although for my trails I hope to get a 140mm as my next purchase.
  • + 10
 When I received my Enduro 2016, I shared the very same point about the absence of Guide Ultimate or even RSC with the Specialized marketing people. I think it's a joke on a bike wearing such a price tag, I bet my email is staying nice and warm in someone's trash bin...
  • + 9
 Hard to say many bad things about this bike: dialed geo, great shock, lifetime warranty,etc. Take note however, the wheels on the pro and elite do not match the intended usage. You simply cannot apply the same philosophy of low spoke count but with a flimsy alloy rim.
  • + 5
 Excellent point and something that's stopped me getting one. It's made worse by the fact that bikes like this are popular with bigger guys.
  • + 10
 Can we get a wreckoning vs enduro 29 face off? Preferably on video ????
  • + 7
 Sorry guys. I'm unable to get past the Ohlin's sticker misalignment on the fork. It's been a tough week so far -- R. Rude's EWS misfortunes and now this. :-(
  • + 7
 so why cant manufacturers just make seat angles steeper, if thats all it takes for better climbing performance? i assume that if they could, they would
  • + 3
 I think a lot of the time it has to do with rear wheel clearance and shock placement.
  • + 9
 That's what's funny about these reviews. Seat Angle has nothing to do with climbing as long as the post puts the saddle in a position where the rider can get it in the desired position by sliding it on the rails. Just slide the saddle forward on the rails if the seat angle is 'too slack' for you (AKA puts you behind the BB too much). If the saddle is slid as far forward as it will go and a rider is still 'too far' back for good climbing, then it is a geometry issue. But this is probably 10% of the time when the reviewers have these bikes. Look at their riding shots. Saddle not slammed forward but saying they're not in a good climbing position on the bike.
  • + 6
 @btjenki: Spot on. I will say this - my bike "suffers" from a slack seat angle, I have the saddle all the way forward and it mostly "corrected" the issue. I would like it a touch more forward if I had my choice but honestly after riding the bike a bit I have adapted and it climbs like a mountain goat.
  • - 1
 Bike design is really complicated. If you make the seat angle steeper it changes the handling on the downhill, shortens the effective top tube... etc.
  • + 0
 @btjenki: yes and this is probably why it has a relatively short reach
  • + 8
 @bsavery: Yes, bike design is very complicated. And yes, sliding saddle forward would: A. Get someone in a better climbing position, and B. shorten effective TT. But in that case, the reviewers should say, "To get into my normal (good) climbing position, I had to slide to saddle all the way forward, which then shortened cockpit by 2.5cm, making the bike feel short". .... Not, "The slack seat angle made the bike hard to climb" because that's not true. Unless you have the saddle slid all the way forward and are still behind the BB--which as I already stated is very rare.
  • + 7
 A quick calculation shows that each 5 mm of fore-aft seat rail adjustment is about 0.4 degrees effective seat tube angle, so you can steepen things by about a degree or so by slamming the seat forward, depending how much rail you have to work with.
  • + 4
 @DMal: Depending on how far extended your seat post is. My long legged buddy can't get his saddle anywhere near far enough because it's extended way out there. I'm more in the short legs/long torso camp, so for me pushing things forward on the seat rails tends to be sufficient.
  • + 2
 @g-42: For sure, the higher your seat is, the less effect the same amount of fore-aft adjustment has on effective STA.

The way I got to that is using the arc length formula (S=r*theta). S is arc length, approximately equal to seat fore-aft adjustment. r is seat height above bb. Theta is effective seat tube angle, in radians. Divide fore-aft adjustment by seat height and that give you an angle in radians, which you convert to degrees.

At 5'8", my seat is about 670 mm above my bb. 5 mm for-aft / 670 mm = 0.00746 radians = 0.43 degrees.

For someone 6'4", I'd assume their seat would be about 4" above mine (half our height difference), or 100 mm. Using the same calculation as above, they'd get 0.37 degees for every 5 mm fore-aft.
  • + 6
 @DMal @g-42 : This is all correct analysis of the situation. These are all important factors--but to label a bike 'bad' or 'good' at climbing because of seat angle (alone) is flawed. As stated earlier, seat angle has no effect on how a bike handles/climbs/descends OTHER THAN where it has potential to place the rider. If the rider can get the saddle to their normal position (by sliding forward or rearward) then seat tube angle will have no effect on climbing/riding . Again, if the saddle can't be pushed far enough forward or backward, for the particular rider then there is an issue. But a lot of this has to do with rider preference as well. Plenty of people like saddle 5cm+ behind BB and some like it 2cm in front of it. So, this all has to be taken into account. Reviewers should always position their saddles the EXACT same distance (x,y) from BB on all bikes to keep this the same so true fair reviews can be given. And things like saying "I could not get the saddle far enough forward on the rails to get into a good climbing position. Note: I run my saddle 70.5cm above and 3cm behind the BB as measured from the tip of the saddle." is far more accurate statement than saying, "This bike climbs better because it has a steeper seat tube angle" ....
  • + 3
 @btjenki: @btjenki: another consideration is that the static seat tube angle and actual angle when seated with sag may be quite different. Going up steep grades rear sag can increase a bit more too so the actual seat angle is not really what the static angle is. Unless. It's a hardtail. In which case a hyper steep seat angle is retarded.
  • + 2
 @btjenki: You make a good point. Reviewers in this business really don't seem interested in standardizing or using repeatable testing methods. Off topic dribble complete Smile
  • + 4
 @mikekazimer would you mind sharing a paragraph or two comparing this to the Mega 290? Lots of good reviews surrounding the Mega but very little in terms of comparing it to other long travel 29ers. My hunch is that the Mega is designed to be more rowdy at the sacrifice of trail and playfulness performance. Seems like the Enduro is the more well rounded ride. Thoughts or short comparison?
  • + 4
 What the hell is a rowdy bike ? One with bad meth habit
  • + 1
 I've owned both. The mega 290 has amazing geometry except its long chainstays make it much more difficult to get the front end up than the enduro. The first shock tune on the mega 290 was utter garbage but I've heard the newer tune improves performance
  • + 8
 The BFG of bikes. Someone played Doom. Nice turn of phrase
  • + 11
 Or read the Big Friendly Giant
  • + 4
 I still thought about DOOM, even after reading the author's def. Like a wink.
  • + 3
 Having a previous gen E29 I was eagerly anticipating this bike only to be disappointed by the rather conservative geometry especially when it comes to reach that only grew 5mm. I guess that not all companies follow the low, long, slack trend.
  • + 3
 And the BB is way too high. They had to compromise on the geometry to make it work with plus tires
  • + 3
 Excellent review Mike. The comparisons is where it's at. I wish there was a little bit more comparison to the old E29 but I understand if you haven't ridden it. I'm waiting for the long travel 29er comparison. Particularly E29 vs. Norco Range 29 as they both have similar FSR design.
  • + 4
 Thanks. It's been a couple years since I rode the old Enduro 29, so those riding impressions weren't as fresh in my mind. And we just so happen to have a Range 29 in for testing right now - keep an eye out for that review in the future.
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer: Totally understand. Cant wait for the review of the Range 29. I will be relying heavily on the reviews since I wont have the opportunity to ride the Range 29.
  • + 3
 I rode a '13 E29 expert carbon with roval carbon wheels for almost 4 seasons. It is a great bike. I had no issues with the pfbb and I put a lot of hard racing miles on it. I had the chance to ride a '17 Enduro Elite Carbon and an S Works. They are fantastic. The feel was instantly familiar and represented a very nice set of improvements on an already awesome machine. Everything is stiffer. The old chassis had some flex that the new one has much less of. Handling was outstanding and very confidence inspiring. The slight increase in reach was noticeable. Suspension in the rear is more progressive on the new bike. The $4500 Elite is a good deal if you just want to buy something and go ride without fussing with spec and custom options. It worked really well with the RS suspension.

I wound up on a Yeti 5.5 in the end and I'm happy with it. So far I have not noticed the 140/160 travel discrepancy at all and I'm going as fast as I ever did on my E29 on all types of terrain including corners. The 5.5 puts down power in the rough better than the E29 did. In other words, I feel like I can pedal through rough terrain better than I could on my E29, which is so key for enduro racing. The Yeti is a race bike and like the E29 it really starts to come alive when you are going crazy fast, like when info processing speed and my own strength (or lack thereof) becomes the limiting factor because the outright speed ceiling and ability to maintain control on these big wheeled beasts is so high. I'm sure the '17 E29 would have made me just as happy. I'll bet the Wreckoning would be a ton of fun also and that Range 29 as well.
  • + 3
 I use a 2014 Enduro as my everything bike. I spend my in season weekends on 6+ hour rides in the mountains and do a LOT more climbing than descending. For an "Enduro" oriented bike it does excellent as an epic bike. I wasn't interested in the new model since it won't take an FD but they seem awfully similar. The key for me is riding a large (5'10" with long torso), slamming the seat forward as mentioned by some people above, and using a dual position fork up front. Some say the BB is a touch high but this is what allows the dropper fork to work so well. What I can't buy into on the shorter travel debate is sometimes these mountain trails are really pretty gnarly, and it would really annoy me to dial it back just so I could ride a theoretically more efficient bike. A lot of reviews will say a bike climbs decent but it seems to be in the context of schlepping up a road or so-called climbing trail to get to the top of the DH. In my case I care deeply about the technical climbing ability on steep and gnarly uphill trails and it does really well for me there. Combined with its dh prowess I really like this bike.
  • + 1
 I agree. It climbs well, even better than most of other enduro bikes. However, everytime I rode a 650b version I always thought that head angle is too steep for descending. Bikes like Canyon Strive feel so much more capable when descending and jumping. They feel like smaller versions of Dh bikes. I am not a fan of Spec's enduro, but yeah I know - I'm the minority here.
  • + 3
 @jclnv: incorrect. A lot of times carbon frames develop a hair of play between the bearings and the frame. Usually not noticeable while the bike is in the stand, while pedaling hard it creates a click/pop. The only way to fix it is get a bearing a hair bigger and force it into the frame. Trek had this problem with their carbon frames. Saw it all the time at the shop.

Sorry - it wouldn't let me respond inline.
  • + 5
 I just got a nukeproof mega 290 pro and I like it way better than my enduro. Feels more playful, and suspension more plush
  • + 3
 Which version Enduro do you have?
  • + 3
 Would be curious to know which Enduro is sold more, the 29er or the 27.5er. Nothing against 29ers, but sometimes I am even afraid 27.5 will disappear as well as most cool trail / enduro bikes coming out are 29ers these days!
  • + 1
 27.5 n 29er will coexist so that manufacturers could sell more bikes. But i personally thinks 26 n 29 are better matched but it's too late now...
  • + 0
 Long term 27.5" is done apart from entry level. In a couple of years it'll be 650b+ and 29". The former is more fun than 27.5" and the latter is faster.
  • + 2
 "i>if the Enduro were a teenager in the US it would now be eligible to vote, buy rifles, cigarettes, dirty magazines, and get drafted into the military/i>"
To quote Sgt Hulka in one of the best movies ever made, "son, there ain't no draft no more"
  • + 3
 The color is neat - a combo of gloss and matte surfaces, and it looks like there's a subtle tint to the dark gray paint, with a touch of pearl or iridescence. Its a good evolution of 'murdered'.
  • + 4
 That's exactly what a black v3 nomad looks like, not exactly breakthrough.

It's a looker in person though. Ran into a guy that works for the big S the other day riding one of these, but it had the ohlins coil shock on back (ttx?). Looked sick
  • + 1
 @UtahBikeMike: maybe its a case of South Bay Area group-think that makes the bikes look similar.
  • + 1
 @twozerosix:

No, my point is the nomad has metal flake in the flat black parts and the gloss is truly gloss black. This isn't anything new.

The frames look nothing alike other than paint schemes.
  • + 1
 @UtahBikeMike: There is a TTX Coil/ RXF 36 Coil Enduro in the lineup. Probably a few cats will run the S-Works frame with full coil this year.
  • + 4
 Great review Pinkbike, I would love your thoughts on this bike with 29" wheels versus 27+ wheels, word on the street is the new tire offerings on 275+ are the bees knees.
  • + 6
 I test rode both bikes and much preferred the 29.

Plus bike was great at low speeds and climbing, but descending at high speeds the tires bounced around a lot. It was like riding suspension with no rebound damping. They also squirmed around a lot when cornering hard and did not provide as much stability as a traditional tire.

Reasonably robust tires are still 1200+ grams, don't be fooled by the lightweight stuff, they are too thin and fragile for anything remotely rowdy.
  • + 4
 The price is looking alot better these days...instead of the $10,500 msrp... I hope they never sell their bikes online.
  • + 4
 Waiting for a review of the enduro 29 Ohlins coil review with coil front and rear.
  • + 4
 Take that Intense Tracer... Enduro is way cheaper AND has Ohlins suspension.
  • + 1
 I love the swatt box. It's amazingly convenient to have most of your tools, on trail spare parts, and a burrito stored in your down tube. Just remember to change out food on a regular basis, it can get funky after a few days.
  • + 1
 Any comparison to the previous generation bike? When they are run with the 650b link they have a slack head angle too. Then the biggest difference is the seat angle. The older frame is lighter as well. Signed "can't afford a new frame right now"
  • + 5
 I must say...its a beautiful looking machine.
  • + 3
 Stealth fighter looking, love the lines.
  • + 1
 looks awesome, but i think a lot of people would trade the carbon brake lever for pad contact adjust, as a $8500 bike should at least come with guide RSCs, not just gussied up RS's.

That said it's kinda worth it for the novelty of having ohlins suspension as stock.
  • + 1
 I like the details. Angles are "2017", Swat is great, cable routing sounds well done, treaded bb, bearings have the same size, price for al-version seems attractive.
Now I'm looking forward to the other new models.
  • + 2
 ...and yet Jared Graves' go-to 29er for the EWS is a Stumpy. I know he's paired long forks with a shorter-travel frame in the past, so maybe that's why.
  • + 1
 Just as rude did with yeti. Huge diff bw his fork and shock travel. Altho fox ac is diff than rshox
  • + 1
 And ohlins
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer

Now that ohlins has become even more widely used by Specialized will Ohlins be setting up a service center in North America?

Or will specialty suspension shops be the ones to most likely take this on?
  • + 1
 Suspensionwerx.com

As of March 16 on their facebook page, they are now an authorized service center.

"It's official !! Suspensionwerx is now an authorised Öhlins Racing AB warranty service and distribution center for MTB ! We also have an Ohlins Europe trained powerports Technician on staff to take care of your MX & RT Suspension !!! Contact Suspensionwerx for All of your Ohlins needs."
  • + 1
 @partswhore: thank you for the quick reply.

While we are at it as others will see this post. What is a generall tuen around time for servicing at suspenaion werx in the busy season?

And thanks again!
  • + 1
 @2bigwheels: Suspensionwerx is very timely and forthcoming with lead times even in the busy season. As a long time customer I have had great service time and again. Generally you make an appointment for your piece of equipment and they service it at that time. Best to contact them direct for info! They always email back within 24hrs in my experience.
  • + 1
 I live in Finland and have an STX on my Enduro. I've had to replace it twice under warranty, but it's quite effortless. Call the shop and they order a new (or a serviced) shock and they call you back when the new shock arrives. Takes about 3 days. Same applies with normal service.
  • + 1
 These guys in Sonoma California were talking about doing services before the shock came out (they rebuild Ohlins for motorcycle and auto), give em a call, they may be able to do the MTB fork/shock by now - performanceshock.com
  • + 0
 Not to be too fussy, but at the price of a decent used car, this bike should be lighter. 29-30 pounds is easy to hit on an aluminum trail bike build with similar geometry.

I know, I know-weight isn't everything blah blah blah, but when 2nd and 3rd tier components (Fox 34 Performance, Shimano XT, etc.) work as well as the pro-grade stuff, why spend a lot of extra cash for a bike that won't work better and doesn't weigh less?! So you have shock settings that you'll never use? So you have carbon rims that cost as much as a whole wheel to replace when you crack one?

I'm not opposed to carbon (far from it) or expensive bikes, but there should be a compelling reason for stepping up to a full-on "pro-level" bike. I see nothing here that would be meaningfully better performing than on a bike that sells for around half the price.
  • + 4
 i agree.... it does seem heavy for the price, adn for being the s-works model. i ride a size large 2014 Enduro 29er, with the expert frameset (which is/was the same as the s-works frame) and it weighs 27.5 lbs, with pedals, bottle cage, etc. now granted, i have swapped most of the components, but its not really a weight weeny build, it has a 2.5" wide minion dhf on the front, 2.3" wide DHR2 on the rear, 200 and 180 rotors, saint caliper on the front, 150mm KS integra, but i do have the 30mm wide carbon rovals, the carbon s-works crankset, and XTR levers, xx1 (11spd) shifter/derailleur, and eggbeater 2ti pedals. With more xc type of tires, i can get it under 26lbs

i think the 2017 model's extra weight comes from having eagle instead of 11 speed XX1, plus the ohlins fork and shock are likely a little heavier than my pike and monarch, and i think the swat box adds like almost 1/2 a pound, compared to a frame that doesnt have one. so i guess it all adds up to about an extra 2lbs....
  • + 2
 Also grid tires are quite heavy. They could spec lighter tires just to lover weight (could, but not should)
  • + 2
 Can somebody tell me if Specialized geo numbers for effective seat tube angle account for the setback seatpost they always seem to have?
  • + 0
 And here with go with the price complaining as usual. $8500 is a lot for a bike, duh, we get it. Who is making you buy the S Works model? There's lower models for a reason that provide much better value. the prices are wrong though. The pro is $6500, elite is $4500 and the comp is $3200.
  • + 2
 Most of the price complaining I'm reading is just the crappie brake spec for the price point
  • + 2
 Those Roval Traverse rims are garbage for anyone over 200lbs... I thought they were great too until I blew my rear hub twice in under 600km on my 2016 Stumpjumperm 29er.
  • + 1
 Are you talking about the carbon or aluminum traverse rims?
  • + 3
 Hi Mike, what size did you test?
  • + 5
 Size large.
  • + 1
  Next year: the specialized Enduro 29, complete with a fanny pack and a boost specific 200mm dropper post and a 60.5 degree head angle.
  • + 3
 Been waiting for this review, quality work @mikekazimer
  • + 3
 Can anyone with the 2017 Comp E29 comment on what they like/dislike?
  • + 7
 Pros- Beast on the downhill, climbed so similar to my 120mm 29er that I sold it and am running E29 for mostly everything. Still have a hardtail for XCish stuff. Could pedal it all day. Cheap- Once things break or wear out I can replace with nicer parts.

Cons- Heavy, maybe 32-33lbs?. Rear brake guide on the chainstay was poorly designed, not full internal like carbon model. Using electrical tape to keep it away from spokes. High BB, I notice it, Kazimer didn't mention it so maybe I'm odd. Although I am putting in an offset bushing to drop BB by about 5mm and slacken out .5 degree. Large came with a 60mm stem, swapped to a 40mm.
  • + 4
 @Nizhoni: Exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

Concerning the weight, even the carbon versions are heavy according to what people are reporting on the forums. But I have the feeling that its not heavy feeling while riding it. I think we are seeing heavier carbon frames because they need to be able to take the abuse.

Offset bushings sound like a good idea to further dial in the geo.

Are you riding the Yari fork? How does it compare to the pike or lyric?
  • + 3
 @Jetbenny: I came off a Pike RCT3, I think the Yari dives a tad bit more during hard braking, but hard to tell as they are different travel forks, 130mm v. 160mm. Its plenty stiff, but I'm 150lbs, so not a good judge on frame/fork stiffness. I ordered a single offset bushing, not so much because I want it slacker, but would like to drop the BB as much as I can.

I'm going to ride it and work with it, could always have Avalance do a custom cartridge for it for less than a Lyric upgrade.
  • + 2
 @Nizhoni: You can also have the charger damper from the Lyric dropped into the yari for less than the avalanche cartridge. But maybe its worth paying a bit extra for the avi??
  • + 2
 I just picked up the elite and although it isn't totally comparable to the comp, I think it may be a worthwhile upgrade ($1300??) I have two days on it as of right now and both have been in mud/snowy conditions and the thing just absolutely rips. I also have a marin XM7 (140mm travel 26er) and the enduro not only feels better and more capable on technical climbs, which shocked me, but it also destroys downhill sections which I was expecting. I was nervous that it would bog down on flat-ish sections where pumping is important to keep the speed up, but I was wrong. It holds speed, corners well, and I felt like I could go way faster than on the Marin. Stable but crazy fun would be how I would describe it. The SWAT box is a nice add, and for me at 5'10" on the large, the 125mm dropper is plenty. My ape index is minimal, but, FWIW, everything felt dialed.
  • + 1
 I love my comp. I got it end of the last season and have absolutely enjoyed my time on it so far. I felt the value was very good given how it was spec'd. Climbs as well as my Norco Sight Carbon, despite being a tad heavier. 29er wheels roll over anything. I'm a tall rider and put on Raceface Sixc 800mm carbon bars, with a 10mm shorter stem. That made a world of a difference. It's take a bit of time to set the rear shock up and get that dialed in, but overall I am very happy with the package!
  • + 1
 @Nizhoni: Has your offset bushing come in? Had a chance to ride it yet?
  • + 4
 Love my Enduro!
  • + 2
 Pricing is wrong. 8500 for SW. 6500 for pro. 4500 for elite and 3200 for comp.
  • + 7
 Good catch - that's been corrected.
  • - 2
 I couldn't continue reading the article until unmade sure there was a comment addressing this.
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer: I looked at a Specialized Enduro Elite 29er in the UK - price increase over the last month by £500...£3700 to £4200. Company claims Brexit. £4200 for GX build is too high.
  • + 2
 Wind tunnel tested?

Second thing: I just LOVE bikes with hydraulic brake lines inside the frame.
  • + 3
 No doubt. WTF
  • + 2
 I am sure it is a sweet bike, but $8,500 for a roughly 30 pound bike seems crazy to me.
  • + 1
 for a hot second, I thought you were doing a currency conversion in saying $8500=30 pounds British. lol
oh and I don't disagree either.
  • + 1
 I'd like to see a pic of it in the smallest cog and just how close the chain runs to the chainstay. Why can't they put a kink in the stay and lower it a bit?
  • + 2
 Where's the actual review bit in this bike review?
  • + 2
 Wait, 9000 bucks for a 30 lb bike? Wait, 9000 bucks for a bike?
  • + 1
 its enduro, so its okay.
  • + 1
 @Pmrmusic26: My "enduro" bike didn't cost that much. Guess it's not really enduro. Lies!!!!
  • + 1
 @slayersxc17: Sorry bro, gotta be $5000 minimum to be consider entry level enduro. If you're paying less than $5000 you're probably riding old tech. Non-boost, etc.
  • + 1
 @Pmrmusic26: So, I guess I just have a plain old trail bike.
  • + 1
 This is the S-Works config and you'll find any other well-known brand has similar prices for their high-end versions.
  • + 1
 @dbendixen: oh, I understand now
  • + 1
 CANT DO BAR SPINS>>>>>>>> IM OUT!!!!! Bahahahahah WTF
  • + 2
 Man, only $8500? I'll take two? You guys take trade-ins on wives, right?
  • + 1
 Really good review. @mikekazimer is that maybe a Bell Super 3R on your head? Smile Can we expect the review soon?
  • + 2
 No mention of the 6Fattie configuration?
  • + 3
 Smart of PB to keep the review about the bike and not turn it into a wheel size debate. In answer to your question, the 29er version will handle 3.0's easily, and the 27.5 version will handle 2.8's.
  • + 1
 @Thustlewhumber: Thanks for confirming. One shop told me the 29er would only take 2.8's which I found odd because the 6Fattie Stumpy comes with 3.0s stock.

I'd still like review coverage of how it handles as a 6Fattie. Maybe that's forthcoming or maybe we just have to rely on the 6Fattie Stumpy review.
  • + 1
 Some day when the reach will grow over 485mm maybe I would consider to buy one.
  • + 1
 yip its short for an XL.
  • + 3
 @fartymarty: The short reach is a bit of a trademark on the Enduro...at least in the more recent years. It's precisely what brought me back to the bike - the Enduro was my weapon of choice "back in the day", but I ventured out into some very different bikes in recent years, until I demo'ed a 2015 E29 in Deschutes Woods. I initially asked for a large, but the shop recommended an XL due to the short reach...they were right on. The huge wheelbase and long travel made the bike feel more like it was obliterating rocks than riding over them, yet the short reach made the bike maneuver as if it were much smaller. Coming from a 27.5 VPP bike, the inertia of the 29" wheels was noticeable, but the sheer size of the bike as a whole package and the fact that it just seemed to steamroll any kind of terrain far outweighed the slight decrease in manueverability.

Living in the northeast US, rocks are a way of life. I won't say that i'm partial to that kind of riding, but if you ride "all mountain" here, you ride rocks. That being the case, the E29 is a hell of a weapon for this area.
  • + 3
 @TheRaven: 1232mm is hardly a huge wheelbase these days. 1300+ is huge. 1230s is pretty normal these days. The 165mm rear would definitely monster truck rock gardens though.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven: have you got any Poles you can demo in your area? Im waiting for Paul Astons review.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: We have very little that we can demo in our area. There are like two demo days scheduled for the 2017 season, at least thus far. I think two is exactly what we had last year.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven: I guess that's the advantage of being in South East England - lots of people in a small area. Also South Wales is only a 3 hour drive away. Hence lots of demo days and riding spots however no proper mountains.
  • + 2
 And shorten the seat tube. At 523mm it's the longest one on the market. Longer even than on the previous generation.
  • + 1
 @jollyXroger: My biggest gripe too.
  • + 1
 It be interesting to see Speci bring back the dual crown fork, a fox version of the Future shock would be coo' but I'm old
  • + 1
 125 droppers on L and XL is such a fail, just as specn any bar under 780 is! Common product managers!
  • - 1
 It comes with a 780mm bar.
  • + 1
 @Nizhoni: didnt say this bike didnt.
  • + 13
 Why would product managers listen to a person that has at least 3 spelling, grammar, and punctuation issues in their statement?

Fail ---> Failure
Specn ---> That isn't even a word
Common ---> Come on

BTW 125mm dropper and 780mm bars are a perfectly suitable parts selection for this bike. @mikekazimer asking for a different part on the larger sizes just creates more problems than it is worth it for Specialized. At this price point they know that people will shell out the extra money for longer post or bars at the bike shop. This is not a boutique bike brand that has extra time to sort 125mm vs 150mm as they build bikes.
  • + 0
 @Sycip69er: incorrect. Specialized and several other brands spec a variety of different lengths of components for different sizes. They're building a 150mm dropper as brands like Specialized know that selling a bike complete spec'd correctly out of the box is ideal.
  • - 4
flag jrocksdh (Mar 27, 2017 at 16:07) (Below Threshold)
 @Sycip69er: unfortunately this format doesnt allow us to edit comments(mobile). Also, Shorthand is btr here so comment section isn't too long.
If you read my comment and use any critical thinking skills, many should infer i never claimed 780 wasnt good and never talked about this bike specifically. Come on, its common 411 that hars can always be cut to preferred length + L and xl need 150+
  • + 1
 Damn, and same price as the XT equipped Ellsworth am bike recently shown. This is a beauty!
  • + 1
 29er wheels; check, carbon frame; check, high sticker price; check . No thanks specialized
  • + 1
 For 8500USD, cheaping out on components is kinda mean.
  • + 2
 SWAT is a good idea!!
  • + 1
 Trek vs. Specialized....bloodbath
  • + 1
 29ers are like fat girls, fun to ride, just dont tell your friends
  • + 1
 now if only Pivot will do the same
  • + 1
 Bike porn , can't wait to own one
  • + 1
 Because nothing says frame reliability like cutting a hole in it.
  • + 1
 All this is not important. It will always be 29 ".
  • + 0
 only 8.5 k? ....next year i expect bike to reach 10k and 6k for entry lvl ...
  • - 1
 30t spec'd with eagle? is this made for old ladies? unless you're climbing a wall thats such a low gear you wont be able to spin and keep balance.
  • + 5
 I run a 22/42 on my bike (29") and use it fairly often. That's a much lower gear than 30/50.
It depends on your terrain. Old ladies ? That's what I call the guys behind me walking their bikes.
  • + 0
 Actually super impressed with the price.... Under $10K for a dream build?! Noice.
  • + 0
 Would you say the enduro and nukeproof are capable of the same race speed? If not, why?
  • + 0
 You talken to me?
  • + 1
 it does look mighty impressive
  • + 1
 Kinda makes you want a 29er... Damn that thing is sexy.
  • + 0
 Can't do bar spins on the trek... hilarious. people who can chuck the bars aren't spending this on bikes.
  • + 1
 Sold
  • - 1
 WHY DO THE CS SIZES NOT GROW WITH THE FRONT CENTRE LENGTHS????? ARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!
  • + 12
 Some tall dudes like short stays too, man.
  • + 4
 @PHeller: This. I have an Enduro 29 in XL size and the super-short chainstay length is what makes the bike. Coming off a VPP bike it's a revelation.
  • + 3
 short is good that's why
  • + 3
 @Nick-Marotta: That's not what my missus says.
  • + 0
 @PHeller: 6'3" here, I think I qualify as tall. Can confirm, specialized stays are too short.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven: Other factors going on there. 432mm is barely okay for medium (437mm on the Stumpy is a little more like it) but causes too many issues on Large bikes. The biggest being suspension spring rate differentials which leads to critical body positioning to prevent tires flatting, being bucked on jumps, drops, washing front tires in corners etc.

The goal of any wheeled vehicle design is mass centralisation. Fact.
  • + 5
 @jclnv: You are trying to make a subjective attribute into an objective one. It doesn't work that way. You could say that the goal of any wheeled vehicle design is mass centralization RELATIVE TO IT'S INTENDED USE. Centered mass is only optimal assuming the vehicle in question is on level ground. Even in mid-engine 50/50 sports cars, where perfectly neutral cornering has been masterfully designed into the chassis - try running the same cross course on level ground and then on a descending grade. The handling difference will be extremely noticeable. Now consider this in the context of a bike who's mission is to excel at descending - should the chassis not be designed for the relative angle at which it will most often be used?
  • + 0
 @TheRaven: Long chain stays are faster. Its been proven. Why should taller riders get a raw deal with shorter stays. At least have some adjustment so the rider can decide - like the Canyon Sender rather than a one aize fits all mentality that Spec seem to adopt.
  • + 3
 @fartymarty: No, it has not been proven. It's a subjective attribute...some guys prefer the short chainstays some do not. I, objectively, am faster on shorter chainstays...thus I am a fan of short chainstays. Your results and resulting opinion may differ.
  • + 3
 @TheRaven: From what I read there is definitely a trend for DH bikes is for longer stays - examples: Minnaars V10, Brosnans Sender, Gwins Demo and then the Tues, Paul Astons review of the Sender. Also from reading the Geometron thread on mtbr they have been testing (timing) longer stays and they are quicker.

Whether long CS are "fun" or not is down to the rider. I can see the appeal of short stays but for a big hitting bike like the Enduro I think you need the choice to either go long or short.

On my current bikes my hardtail has 446mm and my full sus has 470mm CS which are huge. Both bikes are stable as hell but probably not that playful (I don't have anything to compare to).
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: Yup, however i'm not a World Cup rider. I can tell you this - I went from a long-chainstay VPP bike to a short-chainstay FSR bike and there is not much about my riding that has not improved. The riding buddy that I just could never catch on the downhills I am now on the verge of passing, and my climbing has not suffered. I am a big fan of short chainstays.
  • + 7
 @TheRaven: Word up, short stays can be faster downhill on any tight or techy trails that have "moves" and features that require extreme front/rear weight shifts. Long stays can be faster downhill on more wide open loose stuff where you just need to get centralized and hang on. People tend to generalize about which is faster based on which of those they happen to ride more often, as depending on the circumstance either maneuverability or stability could be their their speed limiter.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven: Neutral is the default position to design any vehicle. If you're designing a bike around a descent what angle are we talking? 5? 10? 20? 30 degrees? What then happens when you hit and jump upslope? What happens when you hit a loose, flat corner and you have 80% of your weight on the rear axle? It's a fundamentally flawed concept.

The question I like asking the short rear centre fans is if shorter is better what is optimum? Is obvious BB location has to be a ratio of F+R weight distribution and if you want a bike to have neutral handling and suspension performance 432mm on a large bike with a modern front centre length is nowhere near optimal.
  • + 2
 @jclnv: "Neutral is the default position to design any vehicle"

Incorrect as stated. "Neutral" is relative to the vehicle itself, and varies with the application of the vehicle in question. Reference helicopter design for a perfect example. A "neutral" helicopter airframe is not "mass-centered".

"If you're designing a bike around a descent what angle are we talking? 5? 10? 20? 30 degrees? What then happens when you hit and jump upslope? What happens when you hit a loose, flat corner and you have 80% of your weight on the rear axle?"

Designers have to take into consideration the type of riding they are designing for and the average descent angle encountered in that type of riding. It can (and does) vary by bike and design team. As for what happens on upslope jumps and corners - that's what we call "riding skill".

"432mm on a large bike with a modern front centre length is nowhere near optimal."

Yet it happens to be the chainstay length of one of THE MOST successful and well-regarded AM bikes in the history of MTB. The Specialized Enduro is a legend, it created an entire segment, and has continued to dictate the direction of that segment. Hell the subject of this very article is an evolution of the bike (the 2014 E29) that proved everyone wrong about long-travel 29ers. A bike that "couldn't work" is now of the most sought after classes of bikes BECAUSE of the E29's short chainstays.

Talk science and theory all you want, but reality is what matters.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven: Science IS reality my friend.

We're not talking helicopters are we. We're talking wheeled vehicles. A dirt bike is 45/55 for a reason.

I promise you no designer is thinking 'oh yes this bike will be perfect on 20 degree slopes but useless on flat turns'. That's total nonsense. I've owned many Specialized bikes and before I realised what was going on geo wise and had a nightmare as many did. You can think you're skilled enough to ride rear centre biased bikes but the fact is you will crash more on a bike with such mismatch spring rates. You hit a jump you have to load the back or that higher spring rear rate will buck you. In loose corners you have to load the front to the point that if it washes you're in a stupidly vulnerable riding position to do anything about it. Or you could be less rear biased and have more balanced suspension to enable you to make small changes front to rear to influence the suspension and grip levels. It leads to a more stable, faster bike.

I'm not sure what you mean with the marketing speak in the last paragraph. I had the previous Enduro 29. Without the 650b link it was a bit shit to be honest. It was successful because so few people ride fast enough to notice the BB was 10mm too high, the head angle a degree or so too steep and the rear centre too short. It was designed to be a nimble 29" for 26" riders rather than an optimised 29".
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: What bike do you have with 470 mm chain stays?
  • + 0
 @jclnv: "We're not talking helicopters are we. We're talking wheeled vehicles. A dirt bike is 45/55 for a reason."

You said - "Neutral is the default position to design any vehicle." ANY vehicle. Then you say "wheeled vehicles" and immediately invalidate your own assertion by immediately pointing out a wheeled vehicle that is also not "mass centered". You are wrong. Period.

"I promise you no designer is thinking 'oh yes this bike will be perfect on 20 degree slopes but useless on flat turns'. That's total nonsense."

Didn't say that. Here's what I said - "Designers have to take into consideration the type of riding they are designing for and the average descent angle encountered in that type of riding. It can (and does) vary by bike and design team." A bike that is balanced for descending is not automatically "useless on flat turns". You are taking alot of liberties and making alot of assumptions with very few facts.

"You can think you're skilled enough to ride rear centre biased bikes but the fact is you will crash more on a bike with such mismatch spring rates. You hit a jump you have to load the back or that higher spring rear rate will buck you. In loose corners you have to load the front to the point that if it washes you're in a stupidly vulnerable riding position to do anything about it. Or you could be less rear biased and have more balanced suspension to enable you to make small changes front to rear to influence the suspension and grip levels. It leads to a more stable, faster bike."

This...is just nonsense. I don't even. You have no clue what you are talking about. You sound alot like Protour...making up psuedo-science claims to make yourself sound like you know what you're talking about.

You are clearly a hater. That's your choice...no one is making you buy the bikes. Just ride something else.
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: Keewee Cromo 8. The shock is located between the BB and rear wheel. Similar to an Ancillotti of old.
  • - 1
 @TheRaven: Trust me, I'm years ahead of you on this one.

I never said mountain bikes should be 50/50, but I know how ridiculously rear biased many are, do you?

I recommend you buy some motorcycle suspension tech books. Then, when you've figured out how to calculate your F/R ratio at dynamic sag we'll email Racetech and ask them if running such a ratio and the huge spring rate differential is a good idea to extract performance from a two wheeled vehicle.
  • + 4
 @jclnv: Comparing motorcycles to bicycles in this case is pretty frivolous.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: I don't trust you because you have failed to demonstrate your knowledge. Just saying "I know this" doesn't cut it here. Furthermore, you are not the first guy to show up and attempt to discredit Specialized using a bunch of technical-sounding but completely psuedo-science concepts. It's been tried.

You didn't say "50/50", you said "mass-centered". Both are incorrect.

Also, this is MTB, not Moto. We are dealing with two completely different levels of weight and torque. Some design concerns do transfer over, but most don't. Furthermore, rhe MTB crowd and the Moto crowd are calling for different things.
  • - 1
 @TheRaven: Front/rear grip based on centre of mass absolutely does cross over.

Get back to me when you have the data.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: I never said it didn't. What I did hint at is that you are making alot of wild assertions about the effect of short chainstays when you clearly don't have the credentials to be speaking on the subject. Specialized knows a little something about the FSR suspension, and they continue to build some of the best bikes in their respective segments USING those short chainstays.

So what i'm saying is that results don't lie.
  • + 2
 @TheRaven: @jclnv Guys, I made the initial comment because a lot of manufacturers (Spec included) have the same length chain stays across all sizes of bikes which is something I don't agree with as you are either getting long stays (on a short bike) or short stays (on a long bike). Its a compromise depending on which frame size you buy. If you had adjustable stays at least the rider can decide if they want long or short stays.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: What it comes down to with Specialized is simplicity of manufacturing. IF saving money by using the same rear triangle across all frame sizes caused significant issues in bike performance, i'm sure they would consider using more than one size rear triangle. However it hasn't been a big enough issue to warrant the cost. I can attest to this - i'm riding an XL E29 so that means that in your eyes my chainstays are WAAAAY too short. But I had longer chainstays on my last bike, and I don't miss them at all.

I'm sure your way of thinking is going to get some attention in the coming years as bike manufacturers are always looking for the next thing. This could be it. That's not to say it's legit or not, just that I bet they'll pick up on it and run with it.
  • + 2
 @TheRaven: Actually a lot of people having issues with Specialized's suspension. High leverage ratios leading to very high spring rates. Rising leverage rates towards the end of the travel leading to excessive bottom out. Steeply falling anti-squat % etc.

The reason you!re not seeing variable sized rear centres on bikes is people still buy the marketing BS that 'short chainstays are sick bro'.

If you want to talk results shall we talk about almost every top athelete who has ridden for Specialized having a truck load of crap results and crashes? What about Gwin who couldn't even ride the old Demo until they made him a custom length rear centre?

I'm not saying they don't make good bikes. I'm looking at one right now. But you really need to lay off the koolaid. They are far from perfect.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: Alright see here's what I mean. You are just throwing out terms without even understanding them.

"High leverage ratios" - Most FSR bikes fall in the same range as most dual link bikes. Both have higher leverage 3.0:1+ examples, but the majority fall in the 2.6:1 to 2.8:1 range.

"Rising leverage rates towards the end of the travel leading to excessive bottom out." - FSR actually has the lowest leverage rate change of any of the popular suspension designs (less than 0.03:1 per 10mm). Dual link bikes have much more pronounced variations in leverage rate (up to 0.1:1 per 10mm). DW-Link for example has a huge jump in leverage ratio in the second half of it's stroke...5 to 6 times more than FSR.

"Steeply falling anti-squat %" - ORLY? FSR isn't designed for anti-squat. It's a neutral suspension. The "anti-squat" you are talking about is simply the effect of increased chain leverage in the larger cogs. So yes there is "anti-squat" in a 32/42 combination, but that's not a design feature, that's an effect of physics. Dual link suspensions have anti-squat rates bouyed in the middle of their stroke on purpose, but this has it's drawbacks too..."brake jack" for example.

"If you want to talk results shall we talk about almost every top athelete who has ridden for Specialized having a truck load of crap results and crashes?"

Ok now i'm pretty sure you are Protour. This sounds exactly like his conspiracy theory nonsense. You can't possibly follow UCI racing and actually believe this. The Demo has more wins than any other bike model in DH history...I would argue that's more dependent on the rider's that Spec signs, but still, it's the complete opposite of the nonsense you're spewing.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven:

Spot the odd one out.

4.bp.blogspot.com/-0SI_N2NIbDM/VWudIibc_cI/AAAAAAAAWww/cGLcQx90IOs/s1600/Specialized%2BStumpjumper%2B27.5%2527%2527%2B2016_LevRatio.gif

Who said rate change was bad? I didn't. Most Specialized bikes need more falling rate change. And they definitely don't need the transition to rising rate in the last 20% of travel.

1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q1O-c5ntWzo/V7cmfuF185I/AAAAAAAAaIo/zZrkqe1IBJgVRGrw_JEUEvvKYK0GaTCYQCLcB/s1600/Specialized%2BEnduro%2B29%2527%2527%2B2017_LevRatio.gif

Your anti-squat argument is valid but I would prefer, on some models, a little small bump sacrifice for more anti-squat in the sag plus 10/20% where hard efforts cause excessive squat. The new Enduro looks better in this regard so maybe things are improving.

You've gotta hand it to Protour, he was right about one thing. Despite signing the best athletes in every discipline, apart from XCO, they've not had anything like the success to justify those signings and many have had a nightmare.
  • + 2
 @jclnv: So how about we try this...explain why the slight leverage rate increase at the end of FSR's stroke is a problem. Furthermore, why does it make FSR a bad suspension while many dual-link designs have leverage increases many times more pronounced and that's ok?

Show us that you actually understand what these terms mean.

"Your anti-squat argument is valid but I would prefer, on some models, a little small bump sacrifice for more anti-squat in the sag plus 10/20% where hard efforts cause excessive squat."

Then don't buy an FSR bike. I happen to be a fan of FSR. You aren't. That's cool. No one suspension type is the best period...they all have strengths and drawbacks...trying to debate which one is king is a waste of time. I've ridden many different designs and found it's just a matter of preference. I found VPP to be harsh on high speed descents although almost magical at climbing...I found DW-Link to be super fun - it felt like it just wanted to get air - but also unpredictable (it didn't seem to react consistently to repeat hits), I found ABP to be almost devoid of life...did not like that one at all. But these are all my subjective opinions and I have riding buddies who feel very differently despite having ridden the same bikes on the same trails.

"You've gotta hand it to Protour, he was right about one thing. Despite signing the best athletes in every discipline, apart from XCO, they've not had anything like the success to justify those signings and many have had a nightmare."

Don't hand anything to Protour - he's a notorious Specialized hater, and no, he's not right. I don't know where you are getting this from, unless you are just taking it from him? He's wrong, so don't. Specialized made Aaron Gwin and Troy Brosnan into superstars, and Loic Bruni is on the same path. Again, the Demo has more wins in DH racing than any other DH bike. The list goes on and on.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven: 'So how about we try this...explain why the slight leverage rate increase at the end of FSR's stroke is a problem. Furthermore, why does it make FSR a bad suspension while many dual-link designs have leverage increases many times more pronounced and that's ok,

I don't think Dave Weagle's designs have rising rate in the last 20% of travel? Some counter rotating link designs might but that's because they're more difficult to tune kinematics with.

Here's why it is a bad thing. Especially with Specializeds high leverage rates, low anti-squat and small shock volume.

High leverage rate = high shock pressure to maintain sag and provide support and prevent excessive suspension actuation.

Then, what do you do when you reach that last 20% of rising rate and the shock blows through its travel? Increase spring rate? It's already really high and if you increase it further you loose small bump.

All the while that air in that small volume shock is getting hotter and hotter and changing its characteristics.

And people wonder why the team riders are so keen to run coils...
  • + 0
 @jclnv: Ok already went through this.

1 - FSR does not have especially high leverage rates as compared to other suspensions. It ranges from 2.6:1 to about 3.0:1 depending on application JUST LIKE VPP and DW.

2 - Anti-squat would have no bearing in this whatsoever, and again, FSR does not have anti-squat designed into it. In fact, if you are running a 32t chainring, then shifting to any cog smaller than 32t on the cassette would actually give you negative anti-squat.

3 - As for air spring progressivity...this is a problem across the board as the majority of popular suspension designs have rising leverage rates in the second half of their stroke. That's why we now have systems like bottomless tokens and volume bands.

4 - Your comment about Specialized team riders using coils is completely backwards. Coils are linear, so they would actually be WORSE if you have a rising-leverage-rate problem. You would not have any help from the spring, it would all have to come from HSC.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven:

Do you know how to read a rate/percentage graph? Because if not this conversation is even more pointless than it already is.

1. Leverage rates. 4.bp.blogspot.com/-djPgdxyaR3Y/V-KYeYAuwfI/AAAAAAAAaTc/Ef8oR9YrEzMPYot7Z1OJfSdibep2q2HiQCLcB/s1600/Trek%2BSlash%2B29%2527%2527%2BHigh%2B2017_LevRatio.gif

2. Of course FSR or any other design has anti squat built into the kinematics. That's the dumbest thing you've said so far. The goal of most is around 100% at sag. Go look at some Specialized anti-squat graphs.

3. No they don't. What the hell are you on about? Look at the Trek. 4.bp.blogspot.com/-djPgdxyaR3Y/V-KYeYAuwfI/AAAAAAAAaTc/Ef8oR9YrEzMPYot7Z1OJfSdibep2q2HiQCLcB/s1600/Trek%2BSlash%2B29%2527%2527%2BHigh%2B2017_LevRatio.gif

4. Yes but coils are uneffected by temperature. BTW coils can be progressively wound so not all are linear.

This is suspension page 1. If we're arguing about this it makes me realise the weight distribution discussion was a waste of time.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: Yes. You don't know what you are talking about - that's been my point this entire time - so it could be argued that this conversation has been pointless from the start.

1 - That's ONE BIKE. FSR differs greatly depending on the intended purpose of the bike it's on. The only thing all FSR designs have in common is a much lower rate of leverage change than dual-link suspension types. Just because FSR has a given leverage curve on one bike doesn't mean it's the same on all FSR bikes.

2 - 100% is neutral. It means that pedaling force and kickback force are equal. Less than 100% is negative anti-squat and more than 100% is positive anti-squat. So that's why designers aim for 100% at sag. If there is positive anti-squat at sag, that means the suspension is not as plush as it could be and if there is negative that means the suspension is likely bobbing. Notice FSR's graphs have quite a bit of negative (under 100%) anti-squat - this is why they require a platform shock to quell bob. The problem with ALL of this is that anti-squat is completely dependent on what front/rear ring combo you are in.

3 - Yeah, they do. Again, your graph has four bikes. WHOOOOO.

4 - True, but most are linear.

I don't know what book you are using, but if this is "suspension page 1", you need to toss that book. But you are right, the weight distribution discussion is a waste of time because it's a non-issue as you presented it.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven:

1. Yes and on many its even worse.

2. I know.

3. And the Specialized has the worst knematic performance for aggressive riding.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: Well, that seals it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm going to bow out here and stop wasting comment thread space.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven: no worries. Keep drinking the koolaid.
  • - 3
 Another monster. I really wish people spent some time climbing on a 70/69 degrees 100/120 travel bike and see what they are missing.
  • + 14
 who cares about going up? its enduro bro....no UP-duro...thats xc stuff.... lol guys on 100mm bikes should try something like this and see what they are missing going down haha
  • + 10
 Did that for like 10 years actually...don't miss it at all.
  • + 1
 @Pmrmusic26: Sorry, but how do you relate enduro with UP-duro? Enduro doesn't relate solely to downhill. An enduro bike should go UP because that's part of the game. No?
  • + 5
 They would be missing most of the fun of descending.
  • + 2
 @starpak: haven't seen to any enduro races that focus on climbing besides the transitions between stages so I think the dh focus makes more sense. I think they slack them out and steepen the seat tube to make it pedal half decent.
  • + 1
 Well said duzzi, i own a 100mm Sworks epic and man does it climb, would still like an Enduro Sworks too
  • + 0
 looks like a session
  • - 2
 BMW and AUDI driver haters... ready, go!
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