Tradeshow Trendspotting - Opinion
It's tradeshow season, which means that just when my Eurobike-indjuced jet lag has subsided and I'm no longer having strange dreams about pretzels and bratwurst, it's time to head to the gaudy desert wasteland of Las Vegas for Interbike.
The endless waves of new products and marketing speak can start to feel like déjà vu all over again, especially given the cyclical nature of the bike industry (no pun intended). Products that went out of fashion ten years ago are back (3.0” tires, anyone?), albeit in an updated and improved form. That being said, these massive exhibitions of all things cycling do provide a good opportunity to view the new products that are coming down the pipeline, and to get an idea of what the near future holds for the sport.
What's on the way? Here's a quick rundown of what to expect in the coming months.
There are more dropper post options than ever, including e*thirteen's upcoming TRS Plus post.
Will Eightpins' integrated dropper design catch on?
Dropper Posts With More Drop
It's taken a little longer than I would have expected, but more and more bikes are now coming with 150mm or even 170mm droppers posts as standard options, at least on medium and large sized bikes. It makes sense – after all, why would you only want to move your seat partially out of the way before a steep descent?
There are also a several new players entering the dropper post arena, including e*thirteen, Ritchey, and PRO. Despite the increasing number of options, prices still haven't exactly plummeted, although they are heading in the right direction, a trend that I'd expect to continue as competition increases.
Eightpin's integrated dropper post was one of the most interesting products at Eurobike, and while Liteville is currently the only brand using the post, it's a development that's worth keeping an eye on to see if other companies decide to adopt the technology.
Rocky Mountain's new Slayer has 165mm of rear travel and a 170mm fork up front.
The new Specialized Enduro has 160mm of travel in the 29" version, and 170mm in the 27.5" wheeled version.
More Travel
A few years ago, the long travel single crown fork was on the verge of going extinct, left behind in the mad rush towards 27.5” wheels. That's no longer the case, and with both RockShox and Fox offering 170 or even 180mm single crown forks for 27.5” and 29” wheels we're starting to see a new crop of longer travel bikes enter the market. What would have once been called 'freeride' bikes are now being pitched as enduro race machines, but however you categorize them, it looks like 2017 is going to be bringing a new batch of these burly longer travel rigs.
Specialized's new Enduro, with its 170mm of front and rear travel, and Rocky Mountain's revamped Slayer with 165mm of rear travel are two models that immediately come to mind, and I have an inkling that we'll see other companies adding or updating their longer travel options this year, especially since we saw so many new mid-travel options launched in 2016.
E-Bikes
This is the elephant in the room, especially in North America. In Europe, the idea of pedaling around in the woods with a electric motor and a battery attached to your bike doesn't seem to be raising too many eyebrows, and at Eurobike every other booth seemed to be filled with motorized contraptions. While it may be big overseas, trail access in America is much more tenuous, and the general attitude towards motorized assistance isn't quite as easy to read.
E-bikes aren't my cup of tea, to put it nicely. I could go on a long-winded rant, but let's just say that I view e-biking as a completely different sport, one that I have little interest in. All the same, given how much money and marketing dollars major bike companies are devoting towards developing and producing e-bikes, it's certainly going to remain a hot topic for years to come.
This is the elephant in the room, especially in North America. In Europe, the idea of pedaling around in the woods with a electric motor and a battery attached to your bike doesn't seem to be raising too many eyebrows, and at Eurobike every other booth seemed to be filled with motorized contraptions. While it may be big overseas, trail access in America is much more tenuous, and the general attitude towards motorized assistance isn't quite as easy to read.
E-bikes aren't my cup of tea, to put it nicely. I could go on a long-winded rant, but let's just say that I view e-biking as a completely different sport, one that I have little interest in. All the same, given how much money and marketing dollars major bike companies are devoting towards developing and producing e-bikes, it's certainly going to remain a hot topic for years to come.
Electric assistance allows photographers to justify packing even more lenses and flashes into their monstrous packs.
Drivetrain Dueling Continues
At the moment it doesn't look we're going to see any drastic changes in the drivetrain world, at least for the near future. SRAM's 12-speed Eagle drivetrain is going to be a common sight on higher end bikes next season, especially since the popularity of 1x drivetrains (and 1x specific frames) continues to increase. Shimano has their 11-speed Di2 XTR and XT drivetrains, but the demand for electronic shifting doesn't seem to be as high as it is for a wider gear ratio. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if SRAM responds with an electronic drivetrain of their own (they already have a wireless electronic road gruppo), but I'm not holding my breath that it'll be anytime soon.
Shimano have expanded their electric offerings...
...while SRAM added a cog and increased their gear range.
Wide, But Not Too Wide
The hype machine was running in overdrive for 27.5+ bikes in 2016, and most of the major manufacturers now at least have one plus-sized option in their lineup. They don't seem to be replacing any particular style of bike; instead, they're being billed as another option for riders looking for a particular ride quality. They also help make 29” wheeled bikes even more versatile – bikes like the Santa Cruz Hightower or Trek Fuel EX can be set up to run 29” or 27.5+ wheels, giving riders the option to try different wheel sizes without needing a completely different bike.
At first, when 27.5+ was introduced it was originally based around 3.0” tires, but now 2.8” tires are the more common option. We're also seeing the introduction of 2.6” tires, which split the difference even further, allowing riders to toe the edge of the plus-size waters without diving completely in. Maxxis, Specialized, and Schwalbe all have 2.6" tires on the way, with more to follow.
At first, when 27.5+ was introduced it was originally based around 3.0” tires, but now 2.8” tires are the more common option. We're also seeing the introduction of 2.6” tires, which split the difference even further, allowing riders to toe the edge of the plus-size waters without diving completely in. Maxxis, Specialized, and Schwalbe all have 2.6" tires on the way, with more to follow.
Expect the number of 2.6" tires to increase in 2017.
All the hemming and hawing about rim widths and tire size only goes to show just how much room there is for experimentation and innovation in the mountain bike world – little things like rim or tire width can have a big impact out on the trail, and our sport is still new enough that all of the variables haven't been figured out yet.
Interbike is coming up - get ready for another wave of new bikes, components, and gear.
More to Come
Interbike kicks off on September 19th, and we'll be bringing even more tech news from Vegas once the show starts. In the meantime, forget about the future and get out for a ride - that's much more important than stressing over frame geometry, gear ratios and rim widths.
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Feal the Churn!
" That bikes have become lighter for every given class, stiffer, ..."
I think this is more true than people who get new bikes every few years realize, because you get used to the changes. I rode a 1995 Gary Fisher for 20 years. It never stopped being fun. Then I bought my wife an entry level mountain bike (30% cheaper in 2015 than my 1995 bike, so really entry level). I threw a leg over it in the driveway and rode a small circle. Holy crap, the improvement was astonishing. Immediately obvious stiffness improvement, noticeable in the driveway; comparable weight; better fork; better shifting.
singletrackworld.com/2016/09/eurobike-2016-wtb-26-tyres-carbon-rims
Your experiences are desires are not the same as the experiences and desires of everyone else.
If 650b didn't sell, it wouldn't now be ubiquitous. The fact is, 650b caught on very quickly, sold well, and this is the result.
www.konaworld.com/stinky_26.cfm
www.cotic.co.uk/product/BFe26
@Sweatypants we have decided they are "in" because for one reason or another they catch on. As much as I snub my nose at e/plus/"whatever is newly fashionable for what I think are dumb reasons", I have to admit that each time, it's done better. I have some 2.6 (relly like 2.8 with tread) Kenda telonix that I got for pennies on the dollar. A few buddies and I thought they would be good to destroy doing bike park laps and one of the girls who rides with us used one for her winter bike. They worked fine, but trust me, they feel like a small moto tire on your wheel. However, compared to these new, lighter, better designed "plus" tires, I don't think they hold a candle. True, they are quite different, the telonix being monstrously lugged beasts, but that just shows you the market then and the market now. They are bringing back old concepts that may have had potential and doing them well.
Just ignore the hype and be happy that "normal" bike gear can be found cheaper now that the latest and the greatest is something else. You don't have to buy it just because Pinkbikers say it's cool
If every other industry gave in to people like you, we would have a very stagnant car/motorcycle/atv market. I don't get why cyclists are so up in arms about changes in wheelsize when in most cases there are at least 5 or 6 different bikes that use the same parts. I can't even pull the fork off of my 2007 WR250 to put onto my 2007 YZF450 or vice-versa and those are made by the same company in the same year. Get over it.
The increasingly long low slack bikes are sure to inspire shorter quicker bikes shortly. It won't be long before people start looking at the 11/36 cassette and 24t chain ring beside an 11/42 or better 10/50 and wonder how they thought an 11 or 12 speed cassette would improve the efficiency of their bikes. Seriously look at the 3 items together and ask yourself that.
As bikes become more complicated due to more adjustments, electronics and expensive materials there will be a back to basics trend for more robust simpler and less expensive bikes.
Most of the latest trends aren't better for most riders and things like geometry are cyclical. Longer and slacker now will turn into shorter steeper and quicker soon enough.
Bone stock Giant Reign Advanced 2 size large is 28lbs
Source - both me and my best bud ride one.
I don't remeber any consumer demand screaming for 27.5 wheels. It was industry driven to create sales. I think overall sales were kind of slowing down so it was a good tool to say LOOK, BUY, THEY ARE SO MUCH MORE FUN. And I can't stand to ride 29'ers. They just feel awful. Not sure why they have gotten so popular.
Now, imagine had "the industry" pushed 24" wheels instead. Stiffer! Stronger! Accelerate Faster! More Nimble! all of which are true. How would the market respond?
My nomad s weighs 30.5 lbs with pedals
It has i9 32 spoke aluminum wheels, x1 build, heavy s1000 crank with a steel chainring and a dropper. I'm using 2.3" exo dhf/mss and 203mm xt brakes.
I could get it to 29.5lbs with different cranks and a saddle. 27-28lb 3rd gen cc nomads exist with the builds you describe.
I'm not trying to brag about my bike, i just think your numbers are a bit exaggerated.
Some more benefits of 26+ being the fact that they will go into a regular 27.5 frame (with enough clearance) and your wheels will be similar outer diameter thus maintaining proper geo.
There's around 10 or so pretty decent tires available in this format already, and there word of a number of new 26 plus tires in the pipeline from a number of brands including some 26 x 2.8 Minions!
Cheap to buy in but painful if you need support.
This is my camp, argumentatively speaking. I want smaller wheels and I have good rational reasons, but the market won't let me buy them.
Part of that is the insane proliferation of options. Good luck keeping a full selection without being CRC.
I mean, Norco, er, I mean LTP isn't even big enough that they're comfortable carrying Danny Macaskill's signature rim despite carrying most of the Spank line, basically just because it's 24". Your grandma has probably seen Danny's riding and yet
www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
and trail access becomes the real issues, here in the states.
@ajjrsons amen.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most riders bitching about them have never ridden one. I was like that too. Riding one was a revelation though.
It's no where close to riding a motor bike and not the same thing at all. It's not true mountain biking either but it's extremely close and the actual physical impact on the trail is the same. Contrary to popular belief you don't go roosting around the trails like a dirt bike would and to ride an electric assist on dirt bike trails would be as safe as riding a moped on a Los Angeles Freeway.
IMHO if more people adopted e-bikes the world would be a better place. The negative impact that dirt (motor) bikes have on trails is undeniable and just imagine a world where there were more e-bikes than cars or small motor bikes (like in many large Asian cities). The air would be cleaner and the general population would be much healthier (you DO still have to pedal).
Yesterday I met a lady on an e-bike on a fire road who must have been north of 60. She was just enjoying nature and the sunset. This is a person who definitely is also a hiker/ equestrian who's eyes are now open to the benefits of a bike. Those are typically the people who are very anti-bike in my area.
I don't understand how people think electric assist is somehow ok because for what I assume is a percieved non-pollution aspect of e-bikes. You burn coal or natural gas, dam rivers, or create nuclear waste to charge the batteries in most of the world.
Although they do have a "motor" you can't roost a trail or ride down any faster than a regular mtb. They're actually slower descending and that's the crux not climbing 3-4 mph faster than a spandex clad XC guy. While is may be demoralizing getting pissed because an old fat guy passes you on a climb is not a reason to limit them.
If it's o.k. to drive to shuttle , or worse, cut down vast swathes of trees for ski lifts then a quite, pollution free ( obvious big picture electric issues notwithstanding) e-bike should really be o.k.
They're getting banned due to a unfair and uninformed negative bias rather than a real issue.
What are the REAL issues with e-bikes other than this? I simply just don't see it.
It is a handy excuse to ban them though.
ALSO CAN PEOPLE PLEASE STOP DOWN VOTING JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE ON A DEBATABLE TOPIC. FAIR ENOUGH DOWN VOTING FOR DUMB ASS COMMENTS. (rant over).
I think the US is different to elsewhere. Access it fairly good in the UK as long as everyone is sensible about it - I am talking multi use trails eg bridalways. As such I don't think EAPC's are ever going to be an issue on these types of trails in the UK - if used sensibly.
I think the debate needs to occur in each country. It doesn't make any sense for someone from the US to talk about EAPC's in the UK or vice versa without living in the area and understanding the local issues. In some US states their use will be fine, others it wont.
As for them being classified as MTB - I think they are and don't have an issue sharing trails as long as everyone is sensible (ditto MX bikes, horses and walkers). Maybe when I am 70 and my body starts giving up I will buy one. Hopefully I will still be fit and can pedal.
Don't ever start a thread on a public forum ending with "end of story". It isn't by any means. You just opened a can of worms. Now look at that mess. Damn.
Here is a statement from someone on an while forum that I agree with
There's a raft of reasons that knowledgeable pedal cyclists have some distaste for e-bikes and those who ride them. First of all, most e-bikes are comparable to the cheapest and nastiest pedal bikes in their build quality, whether they're turn-key or DIY. Second, most e-bikers tend to set themselves up in an ineffective position that indicates they're uninterested in expending any effort. That connotes lameness/phoniness/laziness, which is unattractive to anyone.
E-bikes as a group overwhelmingly go for gimmicky, tawdry, hideously cheap and/or obviously uninformed equipment and fit choices, compared to most pedal cyclists. While a few of those choices make sense in context, others are telling of the e-biker's inexperience as a bike rider, and none of them make a good impression on a seasoned cyclist. To be fair, this is not fundamentally different from the impression many noob or playtime pedal cyclists make.
E-bikers are also more likely to be car people, and that puts them in the category of abuser to many cyclists.
You may notice that all the differences I've noted are chiefly cultural. Those are intractable differences-- someone who's enchanted by the newest power toys, happily trades money for physical effort, and chafes at power and speed limitations is unlikely to find a whole lot of common ground with those who have chosen quiet, slow, simple, time-tested methods that demand both physical effort and personal commitment. These extremes of course leave us a lot of space in between that contains both pedal end electric cyclists"
IMHO the following are more likely to buy one:
a) Riders who want to ride to the trail rather than taking a car or an uplift.
b) Older riders who still want to get out for a lengthy ride, maybe with younger riders.
c) Riders with injuries that prevent them from riding.
d) Riders who just want to go further and explore more trails in a given time.
These people are already among us. Personally I can see the appeal of them for reasons a) and d).
Although not in the UK as you're no more than a few miles from a pub. Just sink a few farty ales while you wait for the missus to pick you up.
IMO, skinning for hours for one great descent blows on taking a cat or heli for multiple runs.
I really think many need to find this out if they don't already know it.
However in Southern England the biggest hills are a few hundred metres and I don't have a problem riding up.
At the end if the day it depends why you ride and what type of ride you want to have. Each to their own I say.
Trail closures do happen in the US & E-bikes on trails just gives the anti bike crowd a giant bullet.
With that kind of power and speed the climbs are lots of fun, but our trails get torn to shit in a hurry. But at least now you can Roost the shit out of those angry hikers! They don't care. They would'nt be pissed enough to tell anybody their pissed. They don't vote either. Get a clue People. Mopeds Are Not Mtn Bikes! Industry people you need to segregate this shit before it hurts your real business. IMBA you will not receive another Penny from me or anybody I know until you take a firm stand. Stating. "Mopeds /E-bikes are not Mtn bikes and you don't support their use on non motorized trails". You are a Mtn bike advocacy group not a Motor bike advocacy group aren't you? You should also demand their name be changed to E-MOTOR BIKES OR Mopeds. To further clear up all the confusion on this topic.
For those of you who don't live in the US. You can do what ever you want. I'm not here to meddal in your business like our government does.
Full disclosure. The actions of our government Do Not Represent the wishes of the majority people living in this country. Only 2% get heard here. The rest of us get the bill and little more.
This isn't a complicated topic. It's Black And White. Don't make it Grey. Make it what it is. A Moped. Period end of Story.
Pretty weak answer on their part, but at least you can see they only want them on motorized trails.
Oh yea, must also have a 200mm dropper post for future proofing and be in zanny lumo colours
However that's the only situation I would personally use one.
I don't like E-bikes neither, but saying it's not a sport is like saying MX is not a sport...
therefor e-bikes = more trails!
So we start out with a 'new' standard of 3.0" 27.5+ and gradually get narrower and narrower until we reach where we started from in the first place at around 2.3" - 2.4"... Sounds about right!
For me, a short-ish travel aggressive 29er (Process, Smuggler, etc.) is a great compromise, because while I do think of going uphill as earning my turns, I do most of it on singletrack instead of grinding up roads (because I dislike the monotony of climbing roads, and ride in a place where there are climb trails). If I lived in a place where all the ups were fire roads, I'd probably rock a little more squish.
It's a single tube design. In theory it should be incredibly reliable. They're also very easy to remove to send out to have serviced. And servicing should be relatively quick since numbers are still pretty damned small right now.
This is literally only available on one manufacturer right now. I think it's the kind of thing that should be looked at and it will be. I don't see other companies being too far behind. Why could Fox and Santa Cruz partner up for example. They're right next to each other essentially and could co-develop.
I am curious if you could tap a rigid post to work with their mounting system though. Doesn't seem like it'd be that hard.
Or ride a back up bike...
And never mind all those X-Fusion Vengeance HLR's out there.
Clearly some people zigged when they shoud've have zagged.
I agree with you on e-bikes. Here in Marin County, mountain bikes have been banned from all but one good trail (on private land). I am quite certain that within a decade the introduction of e-bikes and the resulting influx of less skilled/trained/polite riders will lead to the banning of mountain bikes on all trails except fire roads (and perhaps even fire roads). E-bikes will be the kiss of death for areas with "tenuous" trail access, and add nothing to the experience except or the lazy and fat.
Ultimately trying to categorize the riders as less skilled / less polite is also a bit impolite from your side if you get me. Many guys I know who have them are the most polite people you can meet who use them for a set window of riding each week instead of shuttles. Many of these guys are also older and therefore more respectful to people they meet, they have been riding years but just fancy getting more fun in, whats wrong with that???? Ultimately I meet good and bad people in every walk of like , MTBers included unfortunately
first, you didnt get banned from trails because of e-bikes, so thats on your biking community. dont scapegoat someone else, just help fix the problem.
second, the funny thing about less skilled people/trained bikers is, they get better with practice and time! an e-bike isn't training wheels, it's still a bike and they will go from a noob to a intermediate rider in a year or so.
stop being an elitist and show an e-biker proper trail etiquette, and techniques.
As of 2016 you can still get a TOP KIT Broduro bike around $7000. However I see the top kit 2017 ones are up in the 8's now. By 2018 the top kit ones will all be over $10 000 and people will stop buying those too just like DH bikes.
Then some bright guy will say they didn't sell because no one wanted them.
There's a ceiling around $7000ish for top kit MTB. Once over that you really have to consider what else you can do with you're recreational money.
The reason DH bikes are going away is because they don't offer enough advantage above what a 6 inch travel bike can do to justify dropping 3 grand on an entry level dh bike and only be able to shuttle with it. And yes I said 3 grand. Your 4-$6000 frames? You're basically accusing the industry of not making the Honda civics and only the Ferrari's when that's clearly not true. Kona and giant make very capable cheap dh bikes. Along with many others. YT's cheap dh bike frame geo is under one of the most winning riders in the world right now.
Back to my point. In a world where owning one nice bike is a privilege and owning two nice bikes is a rarity, thats where you'll see people reach for the bike that can be used daily as well as in the park.
Just about buys you the lowest end version now...
I'm no native English speaker (I'm from The Netherlands) but I'm glad to contribute something to language (unless you're from the French speaking region of course). I'll keep an eye on the new dictionaries
But I guarantee any of these "new, burly longer travel rigs" would wince at the thought of getting thrashed about.
Does anybody on pinkbike remember when everybody had to have a Transition bottle rocket? Lightweight slopestyle builds to 180 forked free ride machines...those bikes could tell some stories.
Well, is new gear realy so strongly connected with the future of the sport ? For athletes for sure, but most of us ? Sure, bikes are more convenient, let you ride much faster but is it more fun than 10 years ago ? The real invention would be to pause wife and children for a day ;-) Ride more, buy less.
This industry can truly market the REPOLISHED SHINY thing for the naive and CREDIT CARD IDIOTS.
Really? Then why does everybody and their brother(Trek, Scott, La Pierre just to name a few) sell e-mountain-bikes in Europe,
but only Specialized sells one here? I think you have that backwards
And to those that say that gearbox are not efficiant, if SRAM and Shimano would put in the same amount of resources as on crap like 50 teeth cogs in the rear (and deraliuers) we would have a very efficiant gearbox by now!
Tire sizes & rim widths = innovation like a fart = a hurricane. :/
#itsnottrials
Change is fine if there is a legitimate reason but most of the recent changes are just gimmicks to drive the market.
I have a sick 2014 Transition Carbon Covert that I hope will last a while.
- DH bikes are dead, instead get a long travel enduro and cover your trail riding and dh riding needs all at once. Hell bikes are so damn expensive now days, the hay days of having a fleet are slowly dwindling down.
- drivetrains are at there peak. whether its 10speed, 11speed, or 12 speed, as long as its clutch with a narrow wide up front you've essentially got what you need. 11-42 spread gives you sufficient range, if your needing much wider, then please explain to me what kind of rides your going on. Either pony up on the climbs or learn to shuttle. Prick!
- plus size rims and tires are for recreational riders, put it on a carbon highball, you have yourself the dentist / lawyer special. The wider you go the weaker the wheel, the thinner the rubber. Enduro and dh will never go + size.
Sure DH bikes sales remain low and I don't see that changing any time soon but the sport 'needs' something exciting to make it marketable. Rampage, Slopestyle, DH etc get people excited about cycling even if they ultimately buy a more suitable bike for their needs. I don't think anyone has ever got pumped on bumbags, goggles with XC lids and water bottles
You get the people who like the idea of DH but don't fully commit and after a few years of feeling inferior to their DH shredding mates turn to a shorter travel bike and low and behold it works well (they never really rode DH anyway, lets be honest) and they can ride the same trails as they always did on their DH bike. It's not that the shorter travel bike is any better just better suited to their speed and riding style!
DH and freeride FTW
Long live 26 inch wheels and dual crown forks!
Rides in the mountains.
I've got a 2015 Reign Advanced.
The geo numbers between that and the slayer are very very similar. Slayer has a seat tube laid back 1 degree more and slightly less reach. But has 20mm more travel.
Which is still 20mm less than my Glory and not as slack.
Plus I'm more of a ride by feel guy and not ride by numbers. Blasting info gnar is more forgiving on the Glory.
I think this primarily because companies sometimes even loose money manufacturing dh framesets and many even pull out completely. As a result, it would only be practical for a manufacturer to produce one frame to share both disciplines if technology enables it to be optimized in both areas. It's not much different than how many companies are making these 29 / 275+ bikes which are optimized for both application.
Put some additional shock mountain locations on the slayer, offer a model in full enduro air sprung suspension, offer the other in its slackened position with a coil over and extra travel. Not impractical by any means.
Apparently not for my 34.9 seatpost. Still stuck with Reverb.