Trek Announces Plans for Online Bike Sales

 I work in a shop that does/accepts direct ordering, and when something goes wrong (which happens way more then you think) we have to bite the bullet and do an exchange for the correct size/bike. It is useful though to have access to a larger selection of bikes then is possible to carry in store. Once a customer is sized correctly in shop we can order them whatever bike they want; it's way better then a person guessing if a bike will be the right fit and style for them and ordering blind...

 why no one says this to YT?

 because YT (so far) has no shops at all. As soon as you introduce a shop into the equation, customers want to pass the onus back to the shop. Also, YT has much lower prices and so people perhaps expect to take some of the responsibility. Here, Trek will be selling bikes at normal retail not at a discount. Because the customer is paying normal retail they will expect a retail-esque service.

 @ka-brap I'm with you, trek isn't cutting out middleman at all, so I guess the retail price won't bring down, and I don´t think a leading brand like Trek is considering focusing its business on direct online sales. That news would certainly be a bombshell and change the industry forever.

 won't affect shops in the UK as your deal is with trek not the shop so trek has to foot the bill with returns. it will also come under our distance selling regulations so it's good for the consumer

 But won't it be the shop that has to take the time and cost to arrange to send it back for you? I hate Trek anyway so won't ever have to worry about this. I can see good and bad sides for the shops and customer, and only good sides for Trek.

 It wont come under distance selling regulations in the UK, that only works if it is delivered to you via the postal system, if you pick it up from a shop then you are getting a chance to preview which voids your distance selling regulations

 If you buy a YT in germany and order the wrong size you are allowed by consumer law that you can return the whole bike if unused (a parking lot test should be ok) for 14 days and get your money back. Then simply order the right size...

 it will work the same way as long as you are paying online as this forms a contract at distance. if you pay instore then you can go to the store, try bike and then not pay if its too big/small. as you have no paid there is no contract so no issue for the customer

 That consumer law you're talking about is in force across the EU, but the product must be returned in the original packaging and without having been used, so the reasons for the return are mainly aesthetic. The problem here is that, to see whether the size you chose is right or not, is not enough just to sit on the bike, you have to ride it and use it.

 What happens when the customer buys a superfly 100 to go race enduro because they think all suspension bikes are the same? Or you're 6'2" and you buy a medium? Is the shop going to look like an a*shole when they correct the customers misconceptions ??

 but with this sale model i would have to pay the full mrsp. who would do that?

 then the customer a complete moron and probably wouldn't care

 If the customer is getting a bike over 3 or 4000 dollars they usually know what they are looking for and know about what size and style of bike fits them. But you are right @staylo85, I've worked with idiot customers who come in the shop and see a 5-6 inch all mountain/enduro sled and think "Hey this will be perfect for me. I'm a bigger heavier person, the suspension will support me as i cruse around on bike paths"... It's these types of customers that cause problems with direct ordering.

 This looks like a good way to support dealers, NOT. I hope Trek has a plan to deal with ALL the problems this new approach will create...

 service is the only way to standout. it's going back full circle. it's always what makes a great shop regardless of selection. it's how small core shops fight big boxes.

 Feels a lot like the Porsche model to me...

Dealer stocks a few cars (trek bikes) to use as demos and show pieces. Potential customer comes in, checks out the goods. If he/she has a good experience maybe they have the staff put together their order with them - lots of opportunities to push upgrades to leather covered headliners &c. If the experience sucks, customers go home, build and order their own. Shop still gets a piece.

In some ways, the dealer is risking less for stocking less of an inventory. Maybe. Will be interesting to see how it works out in the end.

 ^could be. depends what kinda dollars the shop needs to buy into as a dealer every season. with different dollar levels you gotta hope your margins stay where ya need em.

 @rmaile @AaGro

I work at a Giant Brand Store here in the UK and Giant have introduced something similar in that customers can purchase their bikes on-line directly through the Giant website, they are shipped to our store for assembly, and we get a margin very similar to a "walk in" customer sale.

We also then get a new customer, without having done any of the leg work, and can build a relationship with that customer to offer them accessory, apparel and parts sales, servicing for our workshop, and bike fitting for our studio.

The big win for our store is we don't get drawn into show rooming / price matching as the customer has purchased the bike at full retail price on-line

Giant also offer finance directly to the customer, and again we get a healthy margin from that sale without having to tie up staff time doing in-store finance (which is my experience at other dealers can often result in finance being rejected due to poor credit scoring, despite the staff member spending 30-45 minutes sorting out the application)

There are mechanisms in place to deal with returns, in correct sizing and warranty issues, so they have looked at this very hard as its the way the retail market place is changing

The other big bonus for the Giant Brand Store is that Giant actually own our in-store (display) bike inventory. We have 140 models on display, at no risk to our independently owned company (we are all franchises). Any model / size that we don't have on the shop floor is available within 48 hours from a central warehouse.

If we sell a bike off the shop floor, we then pay the invoice after the sale. Stock rotation is another huge bonus, in that Giant will pull back stock once the clearance sale has finished after the model season changes, and we are not stuck with old season stock.

Dealers need to adapt and evolve, or see their sales shrink and really struggle to survive, the big brands like Giant, Trek and Specialized are certainly making some smart moves to help their IBD network stay relevant

 On the flip side, stores won't just try to sell you on the Size they have in stock. When I was shopping they tried to sell me the Large they had in stock. Really glad I ordered in the XL! Pros and cons both ways.

 @B650wagon

Good point.

I had a customer turn up on Thursday evening for his complimentary bike fit, on a Giant Propel Advanced SL road bike with a sticker price of $5500 (adjusted from £ Sterling).

He'd placed a deposit for the bike over the telephone, after being advised on his sizing by another dealer.

I took him into the bike fit studio, and immediately noticed the bike was the wrong size (Large), he needed a M/L. The tricky thing with the SL models is that they use a ISP (integrated seat post) and once cut down to size, you cannot resell the bike or take it back into stock.

I advised him not to buy the bike in that size (basically told him I'd rather lose the sale than sell him the wrong bike), we retained his deposit and made some enquiry the next morning to get the right size for him.

Customer went away very happy as this problem being dealt with professionally with no sales pressure, despite the disappointment during the bike fit.

As we did not "own" the bike he originally wanted, we lost nothing potentially apart from 10% deposit (which is held on our system and not collected off as cash), and gained a customer.

 I don't see any advantage for most consumers with this new Trek online model if you have stores in your town or city. Unless they get really aggressive with their pricing, like YT agressive. Most shops will sell below MSRP as stands. Especially on the more expensive models. It would have been nice if this article (and/or Trek) could have provided more details.

 We get many customers who are very time poor but have funds to buy a good bike. Admittedly this is 80% road bikes, perhaps different to MTB market?

They do all their research, choose the bike, buy online and then arrange a spare evening for bike fitting and collection. Seems to suit their schedule.

 Easy question, let me look into my crystal ball!
Trek will put online "we highly advise going to a Trek authorized retailer first to get fit"
Trek customer service department will have no problem exchanging unused bikes for a separate size. They will send a call tag for the old bike, ship new bike.
Customer who doesn't follow this advice and orders wrong size sight-unseen will just need to suck it up while exchange occurs. The local shop needs to have the balls and customer-service-people-skills to simply say "we're excited to get you the right size, I just spoke with Trek and it'll ship and be here in a couple days. Yah, this is one of the pitfalls of ordering offline sight-unseen, but we're here to help you make these decisions, and look at the positive side, we're getting you on the perfect bike for you." See what I did there? Used simple sales skills and customer service skills to turn a lemon into lemonade!

 I don't care about Trek or "Brick and Mortar" stores. 90% of the time I go to a bike shop they tell me they can special order what I want if I pre pay (for full MSRP plus shipping and sales tax). Usually there are no returns on special orders.

Guess what? In 2015 I can special order it myself for a deep discount, get free shipping, no sales tax, and no hassles.

This whole Trek online thing is half ass, and takes 20% out of the stores pockets who they pretend to give a sh** about.

 They could ship it back. Someone will eat that cost, probably the customer or the shop.

 @championP,

I've been off work the last couple days and off the grid too. Is it really a flat 20% "tax" that Trek is taking as their share for making the sale?

IDK, time will tell if it works, it would certainly be a plus if Trek is supportive on the back end when the customer orders the wrong size. Is trek also paying for the shipping out of their cut? hmmm lots of questions...time to go on dexter i suppose...

 @Stampers : I got the 20% number from the 2nd paragraph of the above article summary. You'd have to follow the link to the bicycle retailer article to get the full story.

 They're trying to push project one. Trek worked with Purely Custom and developed a fit bike. Even though the software has a database of non-trek frame dimensions, they really push selling a fitted project one to all customers.

 They're trying to do more than simply push Project One. They are trying to bridge the gap between people wanting to buy products online and not cutting out the dealer in the process. This is the middle ground between going "full YT" or only supporting brick & mortar. Give people an avenue to shop online while not removing the dealer from the equation. The idea is simple (it is very similar to Shopatron, as noted in other comments below) but whether it will be the best way is what will be tested.

 ka-brap but if people buy things on internet it is to save money... Why would we buy something at full price if we can go at the store and have good service with everything plus maybe even try it if they already have the good size! I really don't understand why they're doing that! I won't be buying any Trek bikes anyway... but that's just plain stupid! lol

 People are fooling themselves if they think that the "what-if's haven't been studied and agonized over by Trek and the other guys that will end up making this jump as well. Will it be perfect out of the gate? I don't think anyone expects that, however you count on this evolving in the future or retail.

 Comment of the day right there gorilla!

 Ok, so as the only brand to commit to speccing full group sets on their Road bikes (A do an awesome job speccing the mtb frames) you choose to attack them for speccing inferior parts? If you don't like change, fine: I can order you a replacement 26" wheel + Tire + 8 spd drivetrain + whatever other parts you feel nostalgic towards.

Performance drives change, not corporate budgets.
This is coming from a guy who just spent $150 on his DH bike from the 90's

 I feel like it's just going to be like buying a car or boat/motorcycle part in the future. You'll have to go to your bike manufacturer to get replacement parts and you'll have some generic parts available at independent aftermerket stores.

Don't understand why people hate this idea so much, but tolerate it for everything except bicycles.

 this is a little different than car dealerships. you still have to go to the dealership to order your car, and when i was selling cars, we tried damned hard to put you in a car we had on the lot. 9 out of 10 left with a better deal on an in-stock unit. this is a silly plan that will just piss shops off since now they will have more difficulty moving stuff on the floor. oh and the money was in used cars, not service.

 just read up on what trek is going to require in order to be considered for this... smalls shops are f****ed

 Kind of off topic but don't car dealers make a fair bit of profit from financing?

I sometimes think that a car is the means for incurring debt (loan) by which the dealer profits. Insights from the 'car guys' here?

 Car dealerships make money on a few things, none of which are the actual new car profit. Financing, extras (warranty's ect) and USED cars. That's on the sales end. The back side, the service department is usually the bread winner- huge money to be made. This is really difficult to compare to a bike shop because of the sheer volume of cars that customer's are unable to fix, and need to fix, makes this possible. Special resources and training is required to service and automobile. A lot of guys who are into bikes are mechanically inclined and there are not many specialty tools that cannot be easily bought. You need volume. This is why the most successful bike shops cater to entry level consumers, who need the help. Deliver that with a smile and you are golden. Direct sales of high end bikes is not the be all end all, it just isn't.

 Trek and specialized have been moving away from the small shop model for awhile though. They like BIG regional dealerships over many small dealers. Giant also. Here in Ottawa, we even have a giant store that sells nothing but...you guessed it...giant bicycles.

 @keystonebikes. You don't have to go to a dealership to order a car/truck. It can be handled completely online and once done specifying your package you can pick which dealer will recieve delivery. This may be what Trek is doing. Also this is perfect for me, as there are 3 Trek concept stores near me, but the prices are ridiculous so I drive 50 miles to another shop which has the same bikes 20% cheaper.
And what about the person who doesn't have an authorized dealer near them but uses the bike shop near them and trusts those mechanics? This sounds like a great idea for shops who don't carry Trek, they will get additional business and get to check out/assemble some of the highest tech bikes on the market.

 @deadtime I am pretty sure Trek is only going to ship bikes to Trek dealers. .

 More bikes for customers is a good thing. This is the nature of disruptive innovation.

 Product goes where its needed. If the Trek dealer in bumblefunk Iowa doesn't sell or need any Remedy models, they don't have to carry those, but if the are selling Stache+ like hotcakes, they won't have to wait around for shipments.

The other cool thing about this is that a dealer may not have to carry any stock.

 Eh, I'm a service technician for BMW.

The state of utah makes more money in sales tax than we do on each new car we sell, selling a car at sticker. There are a few that have a large margin (like 7%). Used cars you make more money per sale usually, but we tend to pay a lot for trade ins to get people into newer cars. We end up losing quite a bit of margin on the used car to make money on the service of the new car, later.

Service makes most of it's money from warranty claims. Our biggest customer is BMW of north america by far.

I work at a dealer that has a high amout of customer pay, but we discount service to the price levels of independent dealers to keep customers at our store and hopefully buying a new or newer car from us when the time comes.

The majority of our income comes from service, then parts then sales.

 You can't buy anything Specialized except from a specialized dealer from tires, shocks, headsets and only get seat posts, Wheelsets etc. only repaired from specialized! Nothing like this!

 Interesting to hear that because at my shop which is a small trek dealer we special order things all the time and call the customer when the part/bike is ready. Maybe what your saying is the reason for trek doing this so customers can get the exact bike they want if the shop doesn't want to special order them.

 I agree with @mblakely a lot of shops need to get it together on this. It is a complete chore to order parts a lot of the time. Small shops want to lump together a big order and I understand the reasoning for them but in this day and age people don't want to wait. That has been my experience. Some shops are very good at the under promise over deliver and I commend them. I order a bolt for my frame and not naming names but 2 weeks to come in I was told - three weeks later I called and yea, it was there.... no phone call. Come on guys.... Three weeks in 2015 without some legitimate reason (like manufacture back order) is ridiculous.

 I think that's where trek needs to do there best to get people to understand that once you get the bike your stuck with it. Unless they decide that the bike is the wrong size when they first get it then maybe the shop can trade them a correct sized bike for the customers bike. All in all though I don't understand why the customer can't just come into the shop. I work at a small trek dealer so I see this being a big problem.

 People like online sales. It's a fact. Besides, if you live right next door to one of course you would come in, but what if you are 45 min away and they don't even have a bike for you to look at. My local Trek dealer does not carry the bikes I would be interested in for the most part. I understand why, but the fact remains- for many consumers this makes sense.

 @Drbillin well said, worth mentioning too that for brands that have done this already stores have seen sales go UP not down.

 On the road bike side, Trek is the only company to commit to speccing full group sets on their bikes to maintain reliability. Attacking them for speccing inferior parts is balderdash. Bontrager is NOT an inferior brand, and I dare you to take apart the rear hub of a Specialized Enduro and read the manufacturers name on the free-hub body. (Hint it starts with a "B")

 "sub $4k bikes having a majority of inferior,non-serviceable parts, Trek consumers will still need to go to the shop to get replacement parts and services performed"

What's inferior or non-serviceable in Bontrager's component lineup? Can you provide evidence to back up your claim? Otherwise, you sound like a Trek hater spouting out rubbish...

 Anything below a $4k price-point basically means the majority of parts are OE / in-house branded / mid-range branded to attain said price-point. For example, as you pointed out, you are getting OE Bontrager hubs, not DT 240's or Chris King or I9. If Bontrager hubs were 'all that' people would buy these hubs on their own, but I sincerely doubt anyone would purchase these hubs unless they came on the bike. ENVE specs only DT240 or Chris King on their wheels, and for good reason. They've done the engineering and know those hubs are the best engineered. Tell your shop you want to spin up some ENVE rims on Bontrager hubs, they'll get a good laugh. OE equipment is going to have specific tools and parts that will generally only be available through said Trek dealer.
Your defensiveness is makes me giggle, and I understand. Everyone wants to feel special and they got good value for their dollar, I get that. But a 'mid price point' complete bike always concedes some parts spec, that's just the name of the game. Unfortunately, in 2015, $4k for a complete bike is 'middle of the road' no matter how much Bontrager tells you their hubs are awesome.
I don't hate Trek, I'm generally indifferent about the brand. I dislike Spec, Trek, and Giant almost equally for their use of proprietary parts, and OE Branded parts yet still charge top dollar. This makes them dependent on specific dealers and parts. However, Giant is doing better in the proprietary parts department.
I would not be so proud about Specialized hubs having anything to do with Bontrager, (I worked there, I know). Hi-Lo hubs are notoriously terrible and support parts / serviceability is non-existent. If you don't believe me, call the customer service line and ask their opinion. If the bike is $6k+ MSRP in the Spec line, it is a DT240 based hub (not Bontrager tech), which IS serviceable, but the front hub is still very much proprietary and virtually unserviceable (to the extent it is cheaper to buy a new hub than service).

 Proud is the last thing I am in regards to Spec using Bontrager hubs. The point is that Bontrager is reliable enough to be used in a bike that is universally considered a top performer. In regards to serviceability. If I were to call up my shop I'd have to phone myself. When a pawl in the freehub body snapped on a 2013 Enduro Comp it took me 3 tools and some grease to remove the old piece and replace it with the new one. I literally walked across the shop to the wheel rack, grabbed a bone-stock Bontrager "Duster" wheel and removed the piece that I needed to get the other wheel turning.

As much as you'll hate to admit it, Keith Bontrager was one of the founding fathers of our sport. In the early days it was his parts you wanted on your bike. Just as they did with Gary Fisher, Trek bought him out Keith when he wanted to take a step back from the speed of the industry.

My qualm is with people talking about Bontrager as if it's a second class component manufacturer. Yes, it's owned by Trek. Yes, the churn out a million cheap handlebars and stems in a year. However, in areas of cycling such as Aero rims they are the pack leader with their D3 technology. You will not find a better rim than that series for your road bike. Even Bontragers tires are on the top end. Running a G5 front with a G4 rear is easily better than a Minion/HR set-up. If I wasn't a believer in the Magic Mary kool-aide (and a fanboy for a Nevegal in the rear) I'd be on the G5 G4 pairing.

If there's any company I hate it would be Specialized. Shady business practices, a ridiculously terrible (bordering on illegal) purchase agreement that shops must sign to sell their product, and (like you said) proprietary componentry keep me from ever recommending them to a curious rider.

 You think bontrager hubs are good?
They are the worst. They warranty blown up hubs all year long.
And you like nevegals. Universally known as some of the shittiest tires you could possibly run.
And you're talking about aerodynamic road rims.
Maybe you should go to roadienerd.com and try to start up a conversation there because you're missing something here.

 1: Yes, for an cost efficient hub Bontrager is an excellent choice. There are warranty claims because they are specc'ed on nearly every entry level bike from a the major manufacturers. We warranty the parts because Bontrager is an excellent company to its customers and will almost always side with the rider regardless of whether they abused their bike more than they should have. Warranty claims are a natural part of any industry; get over it.

2: Nevegals make for an amazing rear tire for the wet, rooted, steep riding we have in the lower mainland. You come from a tiny fishing village so I'm sympathetic that you've never seen a mountain let alone ridden one, but trust me. Once you get out of your kayak and try actually riding your wall-hanger you'd be surprised.

3: A company is a sum of ALL it's parts. Right now Bontrager is making waves in the road world. To ignore this and focus on a single aspect of their business is like saying Shimano is a failure of a company because their Fishing camera is not as good as the competitions.

4: I talk to "Roadie Nerds" all day long. They're intelligent, knowledgeable people who understand that there are upgrades that can be made to their bike, but that there is a cost involved. To write them off as nerds just shows how ignorant you are as a person.

 Specialized don't use 'Bontrager' hubs. Bontrager don't "make" anything (design and marketing company, like Specialized, etc.) - they use OEM like Joytech and Novatech to make their hubs.

I've worked for 2 Specialized Concept Stores as a workshop manager dealing day in, day out with service and warranty claims.

Freehubs for Specialized labelled hubs were basically OE pieces from Joytech / Novatech depending on model year and hub model. Very subtle physical differences between freehub bodies from the same OEM could make it difficult to replace, as distributor support in the UK was somewhat hazy at times!

Specialized's in-house wheel brand "Roval" had freehubs also made by OEM, nothing special.

Currently I work at a Giant brand store, and the mid range bikes upwards have DT240 "guts" in a Giant hub shell, makes it very easy to service, we just bought a DT Swiss hub service kit from our DT distributor. For the lower range bikes the freehub is a OE piece, but generally available from Giant's UK distributor.

The decent thing with the Giant B2B dealer website is everything bolted to that particular bike (when assembled in the factory) is shown as a parts list when the bike serial number is punched in, makes it very very easy for a mechanic.

Here in the UK, it was much trickier with Specialized as they did not have this capability, but you relied on making a phonecall and the customer service agent having the right knowledge to send the correct part. Too many times, the incorrect part would arrive and the mechanic would only find out when trying to bolt the hub back together = irate mechanic, irate customer, waste of resources...

 @ DrBillin, "Your defensiveness is makes me giggle, and I understand. Everyone wants to feel special and they got good value for their dollar, I get that."

Please don't be patronizing...it makes you sound like a douche.

OK, so are hubs your only argument for your statement of "inferior" and "non-serviceable" components? Is that really the basis of your statement from earlier? How are the hubs not serviceable? I haven't had any trouble with my off the shelf tools... What else is there that's "inferior"?

I'm starting to get that "Once you begin arguing with a fool, its hard to tell who the fool is" feeling, but I'll give you another chance.

 @YourMomRidesHarderThanYou brands don't pass unpaid accounts losses onto dealers with next years margins. The debts owed by accounts is usually insured, brands won't give credit without checking the store is good for it, and then usually the finance part,net will have checked with the insurance that they are happy to insure the debt. This isn't just bike industry it's most industry dealing with sizeable order books.

This is also the same for international distributors, they don't pass on losses to dealers either, it's insured.

 @YourMomRidesHarderThanYou

@ad15

The majority of invoice debts are owned by 'factoring companies'.

These take a small % of the invoice amount, and settle immediately with the creditor (i.e. distributor)

It is then up to the factoring company to receive settlement from the debitor (i.e. bike shop)

Factoring companies constantly examine risk (bad debts, ability to pay, credit track record), and will refuse cover if risk becomes too high

I can think of one specific example here in the UK where a factoring company used by a large distributor refused to trade with a large cycle chain retailer because the cycle retailer was owned by a Snow Sports retailer, and the factoring company (US owned) had just been badly burned by the collapse of a Snow Sports retailer in the US.

I was working for that cycle retailer at the time, and we had a 8 week stretch with no supply (Shimano, etc.) during our peak Summer trading period, from the distributor until a negotiation with additional insurance was concluded.

 @hampsteadbandit guessing you worked for cycle surgery? And the distributor being Madison?

Thank you for reinforcing that brands/ distributors do not pass on losses to dealers with next years prices. Funny getting neg propped for explaining a fact

 @ad15

yeah you got it right there. problem was C.S. was owned by Snow & Rock Group. The factoring company that serviced the Cycle Surgery account for Madison suddenly withdrew their service due to the problem flagged up in the USA, and next day credit terms were withdrawn

Of course, big companies have scheduled bill payment to suppliers as part of prudent financial management, and Snow&Rock did not have this sudden spare £££ to continue purchasing goods on a pro-forma, rather than credit basis.

At one point, there was literally 1 Shimano road derailleur left in the entire company (30+ stores)


I can think of another cycle chain retailer, Evans Cycles, when I worked for them the director told me they had to raise £12 million a week in bank credit just to restock the 50+ shops, not to "sell" items, but just to have items on the shop floor for customer to "view" so the shops had stock.

The mind boggles on the scale of these businesses...

 @hampsteadbandit snow and rock always pushed bill payments as late as possible. It all started going downhill for them after the buyout, once it was owned by an investment group instead of the guys that started the chain it all revolved around numbers, and unfortunately the service went out the window. Snow and rock now a smouldering shell of what it once was..

Amazing Madison pulling credit on them though, not the biggest supplier to the group by a long shot.

 @ad15

very interesting to see what / if difference now that those guys (LGV i.e. Legal &General Venture Investments) finally sold it earlier this year, to a new set of investors (AS Adventure Group a.k.a. PAI Partners, France)

my buddy works in a senior role, and said he is seeing positive changes, moving back towards a high quality service base model of business to put clear distance between C.S. and Evans / Cycle Republic (Halfords)

whether this is actually achievable due to costs of rebuilding after the hollowing out of Snow & Rock Group over the past 3 years (especially since Dion was forced out of C.S.)

And the higher operating costs that good quality service costs, and the big increase needed in payroll to attract and retain good staff - especially in London where you make better wages working in a supermarket

Bring in the internet shopping revolution that has seen more organised and better financed companies like Evans struggle to retain profitability, and you wonder where / if C.S. is really viable?

 @hampsteadbandit Dion getting pushed was a shock, key and Jon couldn't get out fast enough after he left. The vc's enforcing a 15 min max per boot fit was a joke, heck they even banned Xmas decorations to save money!

No snowboard buyer, a bike buyer buying ski kit..... The ski/ snowboard side pretty much gifted to tsa and Ellis brig hams, as for bike? Who knows, they had a strong buying team but with a lack of experienced directors no understand the business I can't see how they can get back to the top spot they once owned, the stores are drab and uninteresting and the range of kit carried is sooo conservative there is no point going in there unless you like black clothing and want a run of the mill, middle of the road bike..

And like you said, the quality of staff has gone through the floor...

 Wow, if I was a Trek dealer, I'd be looking to replace them with another brand in my store asap.

 @JWoz Can you link to the details? All I have found is the article referenced here that doesn't mention returns.

 Good point.
For example i heard that the REMEDY 29 will be discontinued in France (no complete bike, just the aluminium frame only).
I hope with this kind of program that i will be able to order a carbon Leov/Moseley style red.
If not, i will buy another brand...

 And there would be a ton more treks out there if frame only avail.; lbs could then make money on build/parts.

 Gotta love PB! Getting neg rep'd for SUPPORTING the LBS!

 You are not making sense man, it's no gimmick, the shops cant carry full model ranges. The shop still gets the sale so what's the issue? They simply don't have the bikes to try- so why not order online? It makes perfect business sense and if it can drive more sales (yet to be seen) then it will be good for shops. Times are a changin' my friend. Gotta roll with punches - and after your pro bike shop rant you state you will go "true direct" which supports the shop not at all.... you just sound like a curmudgeon, a lot of that going around though I see.

 "Support the LBS .... oh, now you can buy online AND support the LBS? .... I'm going direct!"

Lulz. That is rich. Bravo.

 @DeepThought go direct, and seal the fate of lbs's... This system still supports lbs level retail, and you're forgetting one little point.

Billy orders his trek online, goes to store to collect, while in there he buys - new clothing to go with his new bike, chain lube, spare inner tubes, energy bars, a new pack etc etc... You get my point.

The margins on bikes are crap anyhow, the real money for lbs is in soft goods ie clothing etc, not bikes..

 @DARKSTAR64 and DeepThought (ironic!)...it is possible to both support one's LBS and also purchase online. If you actually read my comment, you would have noticed that my last three bikes were (are) Treks. Huh, wonder where I purchased those? I have been riding a long time and have owned upwards of 20 mountain bikes. Every one has come from my LBS. I have also purchased less than 5 things online, always because the difference in price was simply too great. Every time, without fail, I have always checked with my LBS before buying online. If they can come even close, I will purchase from them. I also have my bike serviced regularly by my LBS. I also buy my gear from my LBS.
And yes, it is a gimmick. The LBS will receive 80% of their "normal margin on these sales". Knowing that margins are already shite, I'd call that dirty pool. If I was a shop owner, I wouldn't be pleased, thats for certain.
Cheers.

 I don't care how many bikes you have bought. It does not make you a business expert. People can cling on to this notion all they want it doesn't change the fact that things are changing and you can let them change around you and become obsolete or you can adapt. Simple as that.

 @ad15 - I'm not forgetting anything. I'm just making fun of CircusMaximus.

 The move is designed to generate 20% return on retail bike sales for the shareholder and all it costs Trek is a 5000 sq ft addition while maintaining a lbs presence. Win-Win Trek

 Yeah, I see this move as a sure win for Trek and a response to the growing d2c model. It gets them halfway there just in case the pressure from these brands starts to pinch.... leaves them with options to adapt further down the road.

Plus the yuppies will love customizing their "Leov Red" carbon Trek online and then strutting into the shop to pay full retail for it........ dumbasses.

 Exactly!

 except the whole issue of making sure your bike is the right fit for you. Any bike where the majority of your ride consists of actually sitting down will require that you make the best selection of fit before you pull the trigger. Sure once you have a good starting point, a bike fitter can make adjustments but if the frame is the wrong size there is little that can be done to make it truly fit you. shops would also have to offer more demo days then too, for almost the same reason. I can't imagine wanting to buy a road bike blind not knowing how it would feel.

 I see what you mean, however if you really take the time to check all the geometry and fittings on he bike, you can really get a feel for how the bike SHOULD feel. Then if its not the right frame size, they should have a return policy. But theres quite a difference between small and medium, and etc. I just believe bike shops are slowly dying. It's unfortunate but when it comes to online retailers, they just can't really match them.

 With enduro and dh bikes, you are very correct but it's still not exact. If you want to buy a road bike or XC bike where fit is paramount, then having one to try before you buy is very crucial. The one area where the internet will never win is service (customer, fitting, & repair). And this is where bike shops will have to focus on if they want to survive.

 Good points, and I agree. Just really don't think bike shops will solely survive on the service section of things. Only time will tell though!

 If they sell coffee and cake as well as repair they'll be ok.

 This might be a USA only deal. If it's a world wide initiative I'm sure our Trek distributor in Australia would handle it. I don't see it as a bad thing - the LBS rarely carries all models and sizes (they can't afford to) so ordering what you want direct is a good answer and the bike shop taking a smaller margin is ok because they haven't had to buy a lot of stock from Trek up front. It's a huge financial burden to fill a shop with stock that may sit there for months before it sells.

 No, this way you actually order from trek, from the trek site, pay trek, the shop just hands over the bike to you.

 I am a staunch supporter of the LBS, but there is no doubt that people love to shop on-line (and in many cases prefer it). I think this scenario (at least how it is presented here) is a much better than Trek going the route of YT or Canyon. It will still support the jobs at the LBS and offer the customer a better experience than simply shopping online (if the shop does it correctly from their side).

 I like your reasoning trillot - and no, I don't think the consumer will see any change in what they pay.

Consumer = no retail price change
Dealer = smaller commission
Trek = hairy fat bastard laughing their way to the bank on their f*cking efatbike (braaaa haaaa haaaa haaa haaa!)

F*ck off Trek. Next bike will be a Rocky Mountain or Transition.

 This holds no water. Mostly because you can still go in the store and buy....they are not taking that away, this is just a new avenue. Also, it appears the price is the same online and in store, I'm not sure you read the article.... And @Wasatch money talks ... let's see if you actually go and buy a bike just to spite Trek... Rocky Mountain surely will appreciate it.

 @DARKSTAR63 -> spite motivates 99% of all my purchases. Don't ever underestimate spite.

But in all (some) seriousness, I'm sure the MBA's at Trek put together a beautiful powerpoint to show dealers how this will increase sales. Would love to see a white paper showing some historical data and assumptions around how this is expected to work out financially for the Trek dealers, though not sure the PB audience is privy to such things. Of course if it goes well, others will follow suit.

But Trek is still a hairy fat bastard.

 lol, that did give me a chuckle... I only have to assume, given the highly successful company that is Trek, some thought went into this. I see this as a supplement to sales, allowing consumers an OPTION and a good way for shops to reduce costly inventory. It may not work, at which point hey will tweak or abandon it... people are acting like the sky is falling. Good grief.

 Okay, so the price doesn't change... So, you'd really have to hate your local store to then buy on-line and cut the store's margin. Plus by buying on-line the store likely then doesn't have to offer you their service program, or discounts on parts? So, in the end, if the price doesn't change - it's either moot (no benefit), because I'll still buy in the store, or a negative to the consumer, because I don't get any service if I buy on line. Wow - awesome program....

 Most of the shops moving a lot of product are not selling at list anyways so i doubt it will hugely impact profit margin. If it works... IF i completely admit, then sales could increase- the power of being able to add to cart and buy HAS been proven. So if it works, sales could increase while allowing stores to not carry oddities and slow moving product. Obviously kinks may need to be worked out but what should they do? Stand idle and let others go to online sales first?

 Well, shopping on line is typically done because of a significant price reduction (enough to warrant the risk). If there is no price reduction - why bother? Slower and risky compared to going in the shop, hopping on for a test ride and then purchasing it there. How many people have bought a bike without trying, thinking the specs and angles look good, then they finally pick it up, take it for a spin and quickly regret the decision. That's ok for a shirt - not for a $4k bike.

 I have very rarely truly regretted purchasing a bike, and if so a parking lot test ride wouldn't have stopped me from buying. But that is not what this is about. This is an entry to online sales. Who says the price will remain exactly the same? It will for now... however, they will have the ability to price however they want. As a bicycle manufacturer you would be crazy to not consider online sales. High end bikes are often bought by consumers who do not require shop hand holding. It is a different market that is targeted by this. You stand to expand sales without cannibalizing what you already sell in more entry level fare. The shops can still sell bikes, people can still go there. They aren't saying that they are going online only... people are reacting like that is the case.

 Good luck. The only way that's happening is through direct-to-consumer companies or buying used.

 We sell specialized and trek and get paid on commission. If I think someone will purchase online they won't get a minute of my time. Even if it comes in through my store,someone else may end up getting the comission! I guess I'll keep drinking my big red "s" kook aid

 Some cheese head is going to have his bike ordered in and it will inevitably be a Pro caliber Race XC bike. He will come in and he will be a rookie rider and really excited to get his new XC bike... We will set it up and he'll start asking if we can install a seat post shock and asking why he is all bent over and his back hurts...... then I will have to explain how this is a Elite XC race bike meant for racing, blah blah blah. He will still want to keep the bike for some f*cked reason and just before he leaves the shop with a bike he will ride 6 times a year he will turn around come back to the service department and go.." Can I install a rear rack on this bike?"



In a normal week at our shop 4 out of 5 people I sell a bike to will leave the shop on a bike they had no idea was what they actually needed.... The only people who should be aloud to used this online system are those who already own a trek bike and are just looking to upgrade to something new.... this wont happen because the regulars come to our shop and we hook em up but I can still dream!!!

 "Can I get the ticket in cornflower blue?"

 Shopatron has been around for a decade, this is nothing new.

 @ad15 - that's the first I've heard of it.

 @seraph it's very hard for shops to carry entire ranges from all the brands they sell, so some brands get the stores into the idea saying that it means customers can buy from the entire range, without the store having to carry the inventory, the brand takes some of the money, the store gets the rest.

Understandably when this idea first gets announced the knee jerk reaction by stores is that the brand is going direct, the brand response is that they make these huge ranges that just aren't available to buy as stores don't carry the entire range, this format means the customer has the full range to choose from AND still support their local store....sort of....

The really clever part is that when a customer shops online they could go to a store site looking for let's say a trek session, but while on the site they see a spesh demo 8 on sale, trek then loose out on that sale as kiddie bought the demo, By driving the customer to the brand site and taking the money at that point, they ring fence the customer to trek, no exposure to any other brands, job done.... Over the coming months expect to see all trek advertising pushing you to the trek store..

 @seraph Shopatron is not a consumer-facing entity. They are a 3rd party "organizer" that orchestrates the internet sale of the product between manufacturer and shop. When you buy products online but you need to pick them up at a shop, then 99% of the time Shopatron is involved.

 @ka-brap thanks for clarifying that, my bad. Over 60 cycling brands already using shopatron,

 @ad15, very good point in regards to lost sales to another brand.