Velocio Launches New MTB Apparel Line

 I’ll stop bitching when I see your stuff in Nordstrom’s.

 I do however like the looks of what you guys are putting out. And your model standing by the tailgate is rocking a pretty solid “oh you” face.

 @everythingsucks:

 @everythingsucks ok - that is funny. Lol.

 No need to bitch about high priced gear, just don’t buy it and watch high priced gear companies go the way of Kitsbow.

 Wow the fact that there is a section titled "WHY IT'S SO EXPENSIVE (AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PINKBIKE COMMENTS SECTION)" makes me an immediate fan.

 I'm just a pinkbike commenter (that's owned a few companies in industries where people complain about price too) and my opinion is that if you have to use words to justify your pricing you're doing it wrong. The product and its sales pitch needs to do that work. Writing statements to justify your prices either does nothing, or affects your brand perception negatively.

 I'm not the demo for this stuff... but I can fully appreciate the fact that one of the pics in the link has obligatory blood letting included.

 @rickybobby19: I actually find it quite funny that the page and comment exist.

 Save you the click:


WHY IT'S SO EXPENSIVE (AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PINKBIKE COMMENTS SECTION)

Our clothing is expensive. The materials we use to make them are expensive. The labor is expensive. The shipping is increasingly expensive. You can buy three pairs of jean shorts for one pair of our Ultralight Trail Shorts. Better yet, you can just ride what you have in your closet. It will definitely work. Your bike won’t combust and you won’t be faster or slower. (You may however be less comfortable).

There are cheaper brands than Velocio. They use cheaper fabrics. They use cheaper (less verifiable) labor. They don’t have a repair program. They don't donate. We’re planting our flag in competition with those brands by highlighting that the gear we make will feel better, work better and last longer. YMMV.

 How do track who is making your clothing??? How many “socially conscientious” companies have turned out to be using Uyghur slave labor???

 @wobblegoblin: I think we all want to see MADE IN AMERICA, or CANADA. Dont sell me on made in Asia where we all know the margins are huge.

 @Snowsed341: Ah, like Kitsbow!

 Hello Agrides - Some random thoughts.

1) I can't speak for everyone here, but I would gladly pay your prices and support you 100% if your products are made with natural materials (plant/animal fibers) and are sewn in democracies by people getting paid a living wage (#GTFOChina - and by extension #GTFOVietnam, #GTFOPakistan, etc.).
2) Base on what I typed above, there is a problem. A large part of your line is made with plastic, supposedly recycled plastic, but plastic nonetheless. My issue is stamping out items with 100% man-made fibers and then going "its great for the environment", because the molecules in that item are going to be around longer than 10 human lifespans. Even if I only buy what I need and take care of it for the rest of my time on earth, its still going hurt Mother Nature in the long run.
3) Looks like many items are "made" in the European Union, which is great. All hail our EU overlords. But where is your fabric being made? Is there some factory on a river bank in China pumping out supposed "environmentally friendly" fabrics that none of your staff has seen, which, in fact, is poisoning river dolphins? Again #GTFOChina for everything.
4) I like wool as a fabric. Its great for clothes. But, I also like animals. I like animals being treated with kindness and respect. (Even the animals I eat.) Where do those sheep for the wool live and has any of your staff verify its coming from where its supposed to be?

DeMarchi makes similar items at less cost. If you don't care about "bike specific" Varusteleka makes great wool items and has an explicit #GTFOChina company policy. So what do you have that those places (and those like them) don't have?

 @Snowsed341: our clothing is not made in Asia.

 @agrides: So where are they made? Just think about this. I can buy a pair of shorts from lets say TLD that are also comfortable for half the price. MTB clothes are disposable, they rip, tear, fade, stretch. if I have to buy a new kit every 6 months to a year why would I pay double. Atleast with TLD the Ruckus Line at $150 comes with a Chamois and is built tough.

I think instead of justifying your pricing you should take onboard the over whelming consensus of the target demographic. Your prices are too high.

Is it not ideal to take all the posts and learn from this. You are basically getting a free focus group.

I think most of us are willing to pay the following:

Jersey: 50.00 USD
Pants: 75.00 -125.00 USD
Shorts 50.00 - 85.00 USD With Chamois 100ish USD

We are your target demographic

 @wobblegoblin: Kitsbow didn't fail on price. They failed on "built to order, in the USA". Expensive is one thing, but you can't also have long lead times and high cost of production.

 @CycleKrieg: shoot me an email and I can show you our sourcing and manufacturing. andrew@velocio.cc

 @agrides put the sourcing & manufacturing info on an about us on your website & then everyone can see it & make their own decisions with ALL the info.

 Nice one. Saw the stuff here the other day, looks really nice.

 Buy NF stuff. Stick it to the overpriced guy.

 @agrides: that's a strange way of not also telling us where it IS made.
Where is your clothing made?
What actually do these people get paid?

 Well they're importing some stuff from China? Import records search:

www.importgenius.com/search/velocio

Sunning Webbing Manufacturing's (a Chinese company) top trading partners are Arcade Belts and Velocio.

 @rickybobby19: this is absolutely true. There are brands in the outdoor industry which are higher priced and their pricing is widely accepted.

 @SMNKLM: However, those brands typically have a reputation built over a long time period.

I have a Patagonia jacket that’s nearly 20 years old and will still keep me bone dry in torrential rain, zippers still work flawlessly, etc. and should I ever tear a hole in it I can send it in and have it fixed. I might be tempted to pay Patagonia’s ridiculous prices again.

 @Snowsed341: you need to buy new riding kit every 6 months?! Jeez, I've got riding kit still going strong that is 10+ years old.

 @sportstuff: that’s the plan. Yes.

 @BarryWalstead: velocio.cc/blogs/sustainability/manufacturing-in-piemonte?_pos=1&_sid=a49f090f5&_ss=r

 @agrides: It doesn’t say anywhere what % of your clothing is made in Italy.

What % of materials is coming from China? Arcade belts are manufactured in China.

 I'd like to point you to a company called Origin that is selling American made Jeans from American made denim. Even their jeans don't cost as much as your MTB pants. They also sell boots, gi's, shirts, but they are all American made.

I'd be willing to accept that pricing and argument if you were making these in the US from US made material but go ahead and continue to shit on a large part of your demographic. Maybe just read the comments and decide on if you want to act on it or not. Making stuff in Lithuania (not exactly the highest labor rates in the EU) from Im guessing asia sourced material makes your stance on this tough to accept.

 @wobblegoblin: a good point. It’s all made in the EU. I’ll make a plan to showcase all of our sourcing for MTB similarly to what we’ve done with the road side where we have images of the factory and its location. I’m done weighing in here, however, as the comments don’t feel well researched or in good faith. Much of the answers to complaints here can be found on our site.

 @rickybobby19: it’s a point we considered carefully and in most cases I agree with you. In this case, it’s hard to showcase the feel and performance of clothing without words, much less the reasons behind our work. I’m proud of the brand we’ve built and it’s perception in the markets we’ve grown in.

 @bigtim: One crash on our sharp dry nasty rocks in Laguna Beach means torn shorts or Jerseys. I have kit that's 10 yrs old too. I just have not had a crash in it yet.
I am very fortunate to own many kits, that I have collected over the years. What if you only owned 2 pairs of shorts or 2 jerseys? Still willing to pay these prices.

 @sportstuff: it’s all in our site for our road gear. MTB coming asap.

 @agrides: Well, I’d be willing to agree that some commenters seem just be be looking for something to complain about - but that’s the internet for you.

However, saying they are not well researched is not helping things.

In my eyes it’s your job (you as in Velocio, maybe not you personally) to make that research as easy as possible for your customers. And I think there is room to improve. Earlier in this thread you offered to answer email enquiries on your sourcing and manufacturing. That’s information that could be openly available on your website, it’s not like there’s anything to hide, right?

And why do I have to read what amounts to several pages of marketing spin on the history of your location in Piemonte, just to come away still not knowing if all your stuff is actually hand-sewn there, or just a percentage of it?

There’s several companies that put country of origin information right next to each product on their website, which I would imagine is not too hard to do, unless it is sourced from all over the world, and this kind of transparency is what I would consider best practice.

 @Snowsed341: I am willing to pay nearly double your assumption for something that fits better, looks better, is better, than something from TLD, Fox, Endura, etc....

so, as much as you might think you are in Velocio's target demo, you just might not be. Now, I get that you don't find the value past a price point, but some of us do, because of differences in priorities and disposable income. I have a very wealthy friend that shops for food at Walmart, but also has 3 Ferraris......priorities! lol

 I just noticed, that at least for the newer products, the information where they are made can actually be found under “materials&care” on the website.

The MTB jersey I was looking at is made in Albania.

 @FuzzyL:

♩♪♫ Albania, Albania,
You border on the Adriatic,
You are mainly mountainous,
And your major export is chrome!

You're a communist republic,
You're a red regime...♩♪♫

 @Mtbdialed: So explain to me how the pants and jerseys are double in price to say Ketl Mtb apparel.

Ketl is small, high quality, lifetime warranty, fits great and has a classic look. Literally checks all your boxes.

Paying 200.00 for a pair of shorts that is just a shell is really silly, and just a waste of money.

If I didn't find a value past a price point I would not own 20k in bikes. I find value in product that is actually worth the value.

 @Snowsed341: I own 4 pieces from Ketl…and I would not consider there clothing to be of very high quality compared to TLD, and they are made in China.

 @wobblegoblin: It was just an example of another company doing neutral clothing that does not break the bank.

I agree TLD has high quality, I own a ton of it living close to its home.

I just don't understand how anybody can honestly stand behind 200.00 MTB shorts that are just a shell. I can buy 3 pairs of good quality shorts from a notable brand for 200.00.

I understand the company has the right to charge what they want for a product but the only way they will move inventory is when they put everything on sale. I doubt SRAM bought the company to watch it die.

 @agrides: or you've made some silly responses to simple questions.
Like why not answer what several of us have asked? Why only refer us to online documents that don't actually give the information we want?

And here's the deal, I use some NF gear and it is priced very much on the premium side of things, but they also make theory gear a half days drive from where I live so I'll happily pay that.
Your gear ships with a silly belt needed that is MADE IN CHINA! But then you go on about premium materials and say 'made in the EU' which is a very generic answer. Some places in the EU are great, others (probably where you're making stuff) are less good.

 Velocio is not a small company anymore. They were purchased by SRAM in 2022.
velocio.cc/blogs/features/velocio-sram

 Velocio has been in business for 10 years and are now owned by SRAM. I think they’ll do just fine.

 @jmc361: Not sure you are understanding the direction the economy is headed. These prices are not sustainable and at this price Rapha and others are much better options.
We are headed into a recession and the MTB boom has been and gone due to covid.

 @jssjrdm: Damn, no wonder their stuff starting to look like Shimano but cost 5x more and probably don't fit as well!

 @jmc361: when this is available on the Sram B2B, that will be rad! lol

 @jssjrdm: machines for freedom was purchased by Specialized too....but specialized shut it down.

 @yakimonti: MfM was always going to fail, but Spesh made it happen faster for sure.

their marketing and business model was suspect at best. Making your core business about highend cycling apparel for obese women, is not a good way to go. I mean, make that stuff, because there is likely a market for it, but not enough to sustain an entire line....

People definitely get into cycling to lose weight, and that's amazing. The issue is, most people that start out aren't going to drop $300 on bibs and $160on some jersey. They will when they have been cycling long enough to know what they want, but by that time THEY AREN'T OBESE ANY MORE.

 @Mtbdialed: dang you’re really hung up on women’s body weight aren’t you. Mfm was a brand for all women that rode which included plus sizes for some women

 @bgoldstone: LOL. no, I am not. I just am not afraid to say it when it was an issue.


FWIW, I personally know the founder of Machines, and she well admits this failure. so you know....

 @Snowsed341: we are not headed for a recession. People have been screaming this for 18 mo, and all the indicators are going the other way.

we probably SHOULD be in recession, but the government is just taxing you(inflation) out of it. when they printed 11,000,000,000,000 out of thin air, they just imposed a tax on the money you held by devaluing it with the glut of new money in circulation. So now a Stumpy evo costs $8000 instead of $6000, and most people just blame Spesh.....lmao

 @Mtbdialed: So explain mass layoffs, the fact the movie industry is being crushed by a writers and actors strike. The fact that almost every manufacturer in every industry is having huge sales over and over because they are not moving inventory.

House prices are now slowly declining and the only people buying real estate are investors, Blackrock and Vanguard.

The cost of living has sky rocketed.

People are barely making it.

But according to you we are not in a Recession or on the cusp.

I understand inflation and taxes but to say we are not heading in the wrong direction is silly and you are being ignorant.



Big tech is on hiring freeze and has laid off thousands.

 @Snowsed341: I just did.....lol

You don't understand the most basic principles of Macroeconomics, if you somehow don't think all these examples aren't intrinsically tied back to my point.

 @Mtbdialed: BLESS YOU! I had a huge reply but its pointless, you have your view point and I have mine. Hard times are ahead atleast in CA for the middle class.

 @Snowsed341: my personal advice, and it's the advice I took 3 years ago.....Leave CA. Plenty of amazing places to live without draconian lockdowns, slavery-esque taxation and wacky f*cking policies that make places unlivable.


cheers.

 @Mtbdialed: did your mother not love you? it’s okay, you can admit it - you left CA because you’re poor womp womp

 @cuban-b: LOL. I left CA because I am very not poor, and have the mobility to escape that commie cesspool. My tax savings from simply leaving CA, if it were your salary, would put you in the top 5% of earners.

 @Mtbdialed: LOL your insecurity is cringe. you can't compete with the educated and rich, so you became a culture warrior in a small town trying to pwn strangers on pinkbike... we're all very impressed

 @cuban-b: classic projection. you love to see it....


oh boy! looked at some recent comments of yours.......I f*cking nailed it. Tuscaloosa, and all you do is insult people. literally nothing meaningful, other than calling people pussies and projecting your own latent homosexuality on others. I get it....Alabama would be a hard place to be out....

 But why is the Marino shirts not 100% wool?

 @wolftwenty1: I keep hearing from my friends that 100% Marino is itchy. I either get used to it or Icebraker stuff I have nailed it, that being said Icebraker gear now costs a fortune and often comes in the mix rather than 100% wool.

 @valrock: I have a blend merino for winter gear and it's way more durable than 100% merino I've had in the past. Performs at least as well.

 @motts: doubt about performance, you might be correct about the durability part, but nothing dries, breathes and doesn't stink as well as 100% Marino.

 Good tip. We will fix.

 LOL, yeah the sizing chart is nonsensical for sure. for pants and shorts, inseam and waist measurments are mandatory

 I regularly ride in cut off jeans and a belt with my hip pack. I had never even thought about it until you mentioned. I think the wrong combo will likely uncomfortable but so far I guess my flabby belly just self adjusted for the two buckles lol.

 At least it's a good belt. My Arcade belt is the key to happily riding in $28 Wrangler shorts.

 People go out without a BELT on?!

 @ridestuff : To ride bikes, yeah. But otherwise, I agree with you, as I sit here in Vuori pants with no belt. (SOrry, it's just too hot)

 I kinda like the belt idea. Waist adjusters tend to bunch up the fabric for me (I'm skinny)... the belt pulls from all sides = no bunch.

 @bman33 same I searched the site about supply chain, found nothing. Patagonia stuff tells me what I need to know and their MTB line is priced well.

 I got an arcade belt 3 years ago and it’s my go to belt for everything. Works super well on rides.

 I am ready to throw my club ride shorts in the garbage they found the scratchiest Verco on the planet and used it in the absolute worst location. Then they added belt holes! GTFOH with this insanity.

 @Rigidjunkie: for real. I bought some Joe Dirts in like 2019 and they were awesome. Fit perfect and never had one complaint. Fast forward to 2022 and I got two pairs of different colors. That f*cking Velcro just stabs you in the hip. I’ve worn them probably 3 times each. It’s terrible.

 I mean, just because it's plastic doesn't mean the fabric is cheap or low performing. I get not wanting to wear it for health or environmental reasons (very valid), but the quality of synthetics varies widely and there are very nice, high-performing fabrics that cost more to make than others. The age of polyester being added to garments for purely price reasons is long gone, especially in outdoor apparel.

 I wish I had a list of companies that make riding gear without plastics

 Some of the Mons and Icebreaker stuff I have also has plastic in it. The 100% merino stuff is great but definitely less durable which is not something you want for mountainbiking.

 man, I hope no one ever points out to you, the average income of the average MTBer. lol


$180 for shorts is well within the demographic window....

 @Mtbdialed: I think the average demo of a pinker maybe in that window but not the actual of all mt bikers. Likely kid mt bikers outnumber the pinker demo 100 to 1.

However I am probably in the demo but still won't pay that much. I generally buy off season and pay less than 150 for pants and less than 100 for shorts .
This winter hopefully even more overstock deals and I can spend even less.

 @fabwizard: and who buys shit for kid mt bikers? their fairly affluent parents....

 @Mtbdialed: yup the one out of a hundred parents.

So an outlier to the actual demographic.

 mec stuff are made by slaves, but yeah... they replace that crap once it falls apart at least

 I've had two pairs of mec crinkem shorts for over 4 years and no problem with the seams. One with liner one without. No issues. Now that I said that they will explode next ride.

 they have made a mesh mtb liner bib for years.

 Yes. Good catch. We need to move it into our new site. Find them here:

velocio.cc/products/mens-trail-mesh-bib-liner