Specialized Carbon Demo - First Look

Jul 22, 2011 at 21:51
by Mike Levy  
There is something new at Specialized and it s painted all black...
Specialized's long awaited carbon Demo makes an appearance at the Kokanee Crankworx event in Whistler, B.C., flying under the radar of nearly everyone in the lift lineup thanks to its stealth looking black color scheme. The prototype looked like it was being passed between different Specialized engineers and test riders from run to run throughout the day, no doubt to gather as much feedback as possible.


  We were quick to ring up Specialized for details of the new machine, but there is little to be learned at this point. Regardless, here is what we can assume:

• It is very likely that the production frame will feature the exact same shape and layout as the prototype above. Why? Carbon molds are very pricey and it is doubtful that Specialized would invest it multiple molds when the frame shown above looks to be at a very refined state and near production.

• The production bike will use an aluminum rear end. Besides the fact that this prototype is sporting the aluminum chain and seat stays, it is generally agreed upon that not only are carbon stays much harder to manufacturer, but they are also very costly to produce. We could be wrong, but we're willing to say that it is unlikely.

• Expect a drastic weight savings over the current aluminum version. Why? Because they have to. Specialized's competition has unveiled carbon bikes over the past few seasons that are not only claimed to be much stronger than their aluminum counter parts, but also drastically lighter, around two full pounds in some cases. Specialized would not be putting the effort in to produce a carbon downhill frame if they also couldn't come up with some substantial weight savings. While we obviously don't know just how much lighter it will be over the present aluminum frame, we'll venture that it must be between 700 and 1000 grams.

• Don't expect any radical changes to the geometry on the new bike. They have worked hard with the Monster Energy - Specialized team to come up with a geometry set that seems to work very well. In fact, the team - Sam, Brendan and Troy - all ride production frames. We believe that the carbon frame will continue to make use of a short 421mm rear end and a low bottom bracket height. Given the rise of headsets that allow riders to adjust the steering to their liking, you can expect the head angle to remain the same as well.

• The bike may be able to be purchased with Cane Creek's much loved Double Barrel rear shock as stock equipment. This one is a bit of a reach, but there is no arguing that the CCDB leads the pack when it comes to damper performance, and if Specialized wants to come to the market swinging, they'll likely at least offer it as an option.

• The new frame will be only nominally more expensive than the current aluminum model. Downhill frames are in no way inexpensive, but the latest carbon models are, somewhat surprisingly, not accompanied by a massive increase in price. Yes, it will be costly, but we'll wager that it will still be priced competitively.


  While it hasn't exactly been a secret that Specialized is working hard to join the carbon downhill bike club, they have done an admirable job of keeping the new machine under wraps while working on its development. There have been no leaked "spy photos", and even the Monster Energy - Specialized team hasn't been spotted testing the new rig, although you can all but guarantee that they've been involved in its evolution. Of course, all of that flies in the face of the hype machine that usually surrounds a major bike's coming out, which is why it came as a bit of a surprise to see the much talked about, but yet to be seen by mere mortals, carbon Demo doing hot laps of the Whistler mountain bike park. The very finished appearance of the frame has us believing that while the bike may still be a ways away from production, it will likely show up under one or all of the Monster Energy - Specialized team riders at an upcoming World Cup race, possibly even the next round in La Bresse, France.


Given the prototype shown here, Specialized must believe that carbon is the future of performance downhill bikes. Do you agree? Has the sight of Specialized's carbon Demo got you thinking? Put those thoughts down below and stay tuned for more information as it becomes available!

Visit the Specialized website to see their entire lineup, although you won't find the new carbon Demo there yet!



242 Comments

  • 153 15
 we all knew this was coming, now its finally here, and its sexier than angelina jolie in knee high boots.
  • 80 4
 i could argue with that
  • 69 1
 i guess if you're into the whole dominatrix thing and being gagged.... i'd say it's almost as sexy as mila kunis. almost.
  • 11 1
 hahaha nice comment and nice name
  • 21 14
 Carbon Demo. Nothing can be wrong with that. But i feel a little sad, because now i won't be using the same bike as Sam Hill Frown
  • 2 3
 hell yeah! this is sick
  • 5 0
 It was only a matter of time in my opinion.
  • 3 0
 i new it would happen and it looks sexy as hell
  • 30 0
 i bet the next thing is going to be a carbon glory, i know it! mark my words.
  • 11 13
 nothing looks as sexy as the carbon v10 (for dh bikes bikes Cool ) but i bet this will ride like a dream!
  • 2 0
 why am i not surprised? it's long overdue that's for sure. specialized have been making road and XC/AM bikes in carbon configuration for the last 3-4 years. if they didn't produce a demo made of carbon, then that's the time i'd be puzzled.
  • 50 6
 am i the only one who thought "meh" about this?
  • 19 6
 If they're trying to save weight... Are 4 seat stays really necessary?
  • 6 2
 Haha, so true. I remember when I thought the Demo was a plow bike/monster truck. Now that it is a refined world cup race bike, you think they would ave eliminated the extra stays to get rid of some weight...
  • 6 1
 Does it look any different?
  • 8 22
flag JesseBMXs (Jul 23, 2011 at 2:49) (Below Threshold)
 it doesnt really look differnet its just made with a lighter, more expensive, material. its pretty much the same construction. but in my opinion i wouldnt ride a carbon frame, i dont know if i would trust it, then again ive never riden one
  • 12 1
 How many snapped carbon DH frames have you seen?
  • 3 0
 I'm not sure I support Ali any more.
  • 2 0
 I knew it wouldn't be long!
  • 5 0
 @bxxer-rider, It wouldnt be as simple as removing 2 seat stays though would it. Not really a viable option as it would basically be like starting a new bike from scratch!
  • 3 0
 starting from scratch looks to be a good option with a research budget like speshs, if they use what they have learnt from the demo, and reworked it to be lighter by design and i guarantee it will be a better bike, instead of spending masses of money trying to work out the problems due to trying to adapt a design originated for big freeride.
  • 3 7
flag fireballtom (Jul 23, 2011 at 12:52) (Below Threshold)
 im not really interested in this tbh, its just another carbon bike, only thing thats going to be that differant is the weight
  • 4 0
 Why change it? This "design originated for big freeride" is a world championship winning bike, some of the previous demo's may have been built with hucks in mind, but the latest generation are all out race bikes.
  • 4 0
 but this wont be comming out til 2013..i work at a specialized dealer, and we just received the new 2012 catalog today, no carbon demo for 2012..well have to wait another year for this one
  • 4 12
flag bxxer-rider (Jul 23, 2011 at 13:33) (Below Threshold)
 its only winning because of whos riding it, bet if sam, brendawg and troy changed to a different bike of their choice irrespective of sponsors, they wouldn't choose a demo, and they would post faster times.
  • 9 0
 in my opinion i dont think it has alot to do with the bike, its the rider, you could have the best bike in the world and be shit or you could have a cheap bike and be a beast Smile
  • 1 1
 true, but not having a bike holding your back always helps
  • 4 0
 wow ive just paid £2000 for my new demo frame and then they go and bring a carbon 2012 one out!!
  • 3 1
 Not as Sexy as my classic Intense M3 with M3 year Dorados, plus carbon can leave splinters in yer thang
  • 8 6
 Typical "third party" carbon... Doesn't come close to OCLV. The fact that Specialized is taking 700-1000 grams off the weight just makes me think the frame will be hashed in a nasty wreck if it even lasts far enough on the trail to get to that crash.
  • 7 0
 so the carbon Intense M9 must the next one to come out....i will take Mila Kunis and Angelina Jolie in knee high boots any day over all these bikes and stuff....
  • 1 0
 ^you and me both
  • 1 0
 OK! this bike is hot, BUT HOTTER THAN ANGELINA JOLIE IN KNEE HIGH BOOTS?
  • 9 2
 i think this is starting to get a lil gay
  • 2 0
 No more Alu frames in one year?...
  • 1 0
 as far as i know the carbon frame will only be sold as frame kit..there will be no complete bikes with the carbon frame...but oh well, i guess its too soon to tell..
  • 1 0
 so, answering ur question, yes, there will be alu frames still
  • 6 0
 wait, so this entire article is speculation based on a photo of the bike in a lineup for the lift? The only fact in this piece is the picture itself!
  • 2 0
 It kinda struck me when i was in the lift line and i saw this thing. I kinda had to do a double take and gather my thoughts and I thought, wow literally in about two years most big companies will have a carbon DH rig ready for production. Crazy how fast the carbon revolution is going.
  • 1 0
 thanks for snapping a photo!!
  • 1 0
 I meant No alu frame at all, like Intense oand all those brands.... It's going so fast!!
  • 1 1
 the only condition i would buy a carbon frame under is if it came with a lifetime warranty. it would be silly to buy a carbon bike of any category w/out a lifetime warranty. except maybe road, but i have seen some carbon road bikes crack or get rubbed down to the carbon from asphalt during a crash
  • 1 1
 Wow, that was a big grave dig right there...
  • 46 1
 That rider is also holding a prototype can of Coke. I can't see any welds...
  • 11 0
 Can i be the first to say "it DOESN'T look like a Trek"?
  • 2 0
 because specialized dont make shit thats why
  • 21 0
 Awesome looking rig. Good development for bikes in general. And for downhill racers its deffinatly a step foreward.
However I dont see that for the majority of the riders out here and there. I dont agree that all bikes will turn to carbon in the future. Cost is one reason (not everyone can or is willing to lay down €6000 for a bike that must last them at least 3 years), but reliability is another.
Simply said: When have a big hit on the downtube of my bike I can take a look and see what the damag is.
- if it is alluminium, there might be a dent. Shit, but the frame is otherwise still very well intact and I can keep on riding for months or even years without a worry.
- If it is carbon, there will be no dent. there will be no visual clue for me if there is any damage to the bike. I wont know if anything is wrong with the bike untill is snaps. Auw!

Now if the bonding matrix for the carbon fibres would include a self repairing substance so that minor cracks will get fixed after 24h or so, then that would be a game changer. Untill then, I'll stick to alluminium and work on bike skills.
  • 1 0
 you will not beable to snap it, how much snaped alloy demos did you see in your life? this stuff is stronger, i dunno whats so hard to understand there.... a dent in a alloy frame also weakenss the alloy, and btw modern alloy is pretty hard, it kinda snapps in relation to steel aswell but how much parts did you actualy "snapp"??
  • 2 0
 i think he was on about bikes in general rather than the demo in specific
  • 1 0
 well i mean, how much of the modern bikes break? i didnt mean the demo in particular aswell, just mentioned the name
  • 3 0
 People worry way too much about breaking their gear. If you're riding within your skill level, you'll never break a bike unless you crash hard in some freak accident. Even then, your other parts will go before the frame does. If you're a hucker and like to go big, why would you even consider a carbon DH bike in the first place? Get a freeride bike. Also, just because it's carbon, it doesn't mean it's going to be thin. Look at the cross section pictures of the V10c, that thing is THICK.
  • 4 2
 @views/jhowlett. I was indeed talking about bikes in general. I also have not seen many snapped bikes, alluminium or carbon (or steel, or whatever material have been used).
But a dent in a aluminium tube does not make the material itself less strong, but only changes the cross section of the tube. This can make the member less strong, but that depends on what loads are transferred. Also see below.


@akirizu. I agree fully that for the majority of the riders their skill is the limiting factor, and that riding a bike where it is meant to be ridden will not result in premature wear or breaking. But that is to be expected of any bike you can buy (self builts are a different matter). They simply have a design lifetime (loadcycles as it is called) before they may develop structural weaknesses.
However when you manage to have a crash with the bike (going down in a rock garden comes to mind) the bike will get hits at different places, angles, intensities etc. than the engineers designed for.There is a large amount of residual strength left in any construction so this should not be a problem if the material is ductile. (also called ductile behaviour. e.g. building floors sagging eccesively before actually collaping. This gives a visual warning for occupants that something is wrong).
However, when this ductile behaviour is not present (The limits for deformation and actual breaking are close together) than any structural weakness can quickly develop into a structural failure. Carbon fibre matrix composites (as far as I'm up to date) have very limited ductile behaviour.

I know that using carbon a bike can be made very strong where it is needed, flexible where needed, and anything in between. It can be stronger than an alu bike at the same weight. It can be lighter at the same strenght. All true.
I just prefer to be able to see that my bike has developed a weakness (dent, cracked weld) rather than not knowing about it.
  • 2 0
 I've been riding a Scott Ransom carbon for over 2 years. Its been to the Alp's, Spain, UK, UAE and been hammered everytime I ride it. Even crashed its way down the Mega
The only bit that failed was the aluminium swingarm and that showed no signs of giving up until it went 'bang'. I checked for signs because I was expecting it for a long time, due to the Rasom's reputation.
I wish the swingarm was carbon because I believe it would have lasted me quite a bit longer.
Still I get to buy a new bike now eh. Smile
  • 1 0
 ^ !
  • 9 4
 Everyone is going to carbon for their DH rigs! I personally am a little skeptical at first because they are so new and you kind of have to baby them a little more than aluminum, but nonetheless I still believe that carbon DH bikes are the future, they look sick, and like all other mountain bikes they will progress and just keep on getting better.
  • 5 1
 I've been waiting for this moment all my life! Soooooo Stoooookted!
  • 24 0
 Did you feel it coming in the air tonight?
  • 6 0
 Now I just need to break my current demo so that I can warrantee it and get this
  • 7 0
 Last review on the Demo frame showed me that you need to hit a wall or a tree at 50+ mph to even only start bending the headtube. I wish you good luck haha Big Grin
  • 3 0
 They wouldnt give you a carbon demo under warranty anyway.
  • 1 1
 Once it's in production they will
  • 2 0
 No they wont! They are going to carry on making aluminium demos aswell as the carbon ones. If you break an aluminium one then they'll give you a replacement aluminium one. If you break a carbon one then they will give you a replacement carbon one. If you break an aluminium one then you will most certainly NOT recieve a carbon one.
  • 6 0
 Didn't we have this same discussion when we went from steel to aluminum frames???
  • 2 1
 And there are still steel frames around, aren't there? Smile
  • 2 0
 Steel hardtails are better than Aluminum hardtails because they are more forgiving. Aluminum hardtails ruined the progression of aggressive trail riding for a number of years. But I think any high end full suspension bike should be aluminum, or carbon. I don't think there are any high end DH bikes with steel frames (although I could be wrong). The Canfield Jedi used to have a steel frame, but now it's all aluminum.
  • 6 0
 i bet they had the same discussions back when they switches from squares to wheels Razz
  • 3 0
 Why did you neg prop me, tetonlarry? I just meant to say that the whole topic of one material taking over another is useless.

It is not all aluminum now. Steel is still around in quite some quantities:

- Pretty much all NS Bikes frames (if not all)
- Specialized P Bikes and Fixie
- Hyper Bike Co BMX frames
- Some Nicolai frames
- ....

Carbon frames have been here for a while now, think of Storck for example. The only thing that kept them from the big break through we live now is that they were very expensive and not so reliable. Luckily at least one of those aspects changed. Even if carbon would gain terrain on the bicycle market, steel frames, aluminum frames, titanium frames and bamboo frames will still be around. No need to discuss which one is better, each frame runs through many tests before it ends up in your garage.

If you don't buy carbon frames because you are scared of crashing, then don't buy high end bike at all. Accidents happen.
  • 1 0
 My Jamis Kromo is steel Smile I liked it better then the Trek ticket, steel has more spring then aluminum and helps get my fat ass over obstacles. back on topic - Carbon is better at absorbing bumps then aluminum...
  • 4 1
 Rode a bike with a carbon rear triangle (admittedly not the newest carbon technology, or the beefiest design) through a steep rocky section and went over the bars. Bike had a low-medium speed impact with a rock and was toast...unsellable, unsafe, and worthless. Had that bike been all aluminum, I'd have a bike with a dent. Carbon fiber bikes? Not when I have to pay for them.
  • 2 0
 True wisdom my friend.
  • 3 0
 As a non pro racer I wouldn't buy a carbon frames.
While carbon tech is getting a lot better, In the longevity test, they don't last even close to aluminum.
I change frame every 5 years and when I'm done with one it is usually still in ok shape (of course it has scratches, dings and nicks) I'm still able to sell them for reasonable value. I've seen carbon frames literally fall apart after 3-4 seasons, and I'm not talking about DH frames (All-Mountain ones).

I'll stay with my heavy(er) aluminum frame that I can relay on and enjoy for many years. it will be hard to convince me otherwise.
  • 2 0
 Now everyone is bringing out their carbon bikes I'm hoping competition will bring prices down. The transition has begun from carbon being top end boutique bikes to the standard for DH bikes (I know we're a little way off yet.) but its nice to see another bike entering the market. Won't be long until second hand carbon frames are up for grabs!
  • 5 2
 and you would buy a second hand one? scary Razz
  • 2 0
 Haha, maybe I'm being naive but I really cant believe the companies would put their reputation on the line by selling carbon frames before they had made absolutely sure the weren't going to break. Whether that be after crashes or long term stresses.
  • 1 0
 you would see if a carbon frame has a serious damage, same then you would see a obvious dent and besides that carbon is/can be so unbelivably strong that theres actualy no chance for internal damages cause of long term stress, let aside a extensive use over 5+ years? Razz
  • 2 0
 Wonder if this is in collaboration with McLaren (like the high end road bikes) The Demo 8 is one of the best looking DH frames out there IMHO and the carbon just makes it even more sexier!
Hope it comes in a raw carbon finish.
  • 1 0
 Can tell you its not. McLaren just put some date into their computer software that they have had many years use of and told spec what they can do to make their frame lighter with the same strength. about 100 grams was saved. Its an idea though
  • 1 0
 Do you work for them then?
I could have told Specialized they need to improve their tooling and layup techniques, then they wouldn’t have to put about 100 grams of filler in their frames.
  • 1 0
 I work for Spec UK yes, try and get in contact with Dave or Murth (from sbcu uk) they always like to get feedback from uk riders and they are the people most likely to influence future designs from this side of the pond anyway.
  • 1 0
 One of my mates was out riding with Dave last night. I already passed on my comments and lack of love for the current paint jobs on the new Demo 8. All black looks sick thoug Smile
  • 2 0
 Carbon Pros. Looks awesome!, lighter weight, and built to tighter tolerances, just as strong as metal if you keep the tires down...
Cons. not as strong as metal when it comes to direct force, you have to do a "quarter test" after every crash. and the biggest pitfall in my opinion is, carbon echo's every creak and noise 10x louder then metal. i work on a lot of carbon road bikes were the rider complains of creaking and half the time its because the pressed in metal shell has started to works its way loose. so if your sponsored or have a lot of money, the carbon is definitely worth it. but if you try and get a full 3 to 5 seasons out of your dh rig... well I'm sticking with metal frames as long as i can.
  • 1 0
 Well said.
  • 1 0
 i thinik you cannot 100% compare carbon roadbikes, they build these things with a total focus on weight, im not sure... but i think it creeks at them cause the layers are extremly thin

P.S.: i remember some video of a carbon evo review or so?! the rider said its super quiet cause of the carbon. dunno how much worth this info has tho...
  • 7 2
 could of seen that coming
  • 7 5
 Very definitely not!
  • 21 0
 let's be fine gentlemen and not start a Trek vs. Spesh debacle.
  • 8 0
 fair enough ^
  • 5 0
 did you guys check out the norco aurum? hehehe.
  • 10 0
 Carbon prices are on their way down. and they are going to drop alot more. in the next 25 years carbon will become just as cheap, if not cheaper than alloy. But it seariously don't care if i bike is carbon or not. at the end of the day, its not the bike that makes the race winning runs, its the rider.
  • 11 0
 a bike helps a lot..
  • 2 0
 A bike helps a lot, yes. but it only gets you so far. it doesn't matter if you're riding a Carbon Demo or a 2007 mongoose ECD, either way if you want to do well you are going to push hard and want it.
  • 1 0
 Probably a stupid question but does the manufacturing or process of making something out of carbon fibre come in different grades, similar to metals?

Because I can't see how a carbon frame would be made from the same stuff as F1 cars otherwise it would cost $10,000+
  • 9 0
 there are 100s of different manufacturing processes for carbon, different layer structure, different additives... so on. thats why carbon is pretty much the material for the future, they can put different layers in different parts of the bike/car/whatever, for example less stiff/less heavy, stiffer/heavier... the posibilitys are pretty much infinite atm.

and i bet F1 car parts are that expencive cause of the massive development that is involved.
  • 3 0
 I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
  • 1 0
 You can also tell its a different frame by how the front trian of the frame is shaped where the rear link mates up to it, its a different setup than my current demo 8. Gotta love that they are running a carbon railed saddle on there too!
  • 1 0
 Why doesn't Specialized focus first on getting rid of the proprietary Fox rear shock stuff? I want to run an air shock in the back or a Marzocchi Rocco and it is proven to be very difficult to run what ever shock I want to run. Why is Specialized telling me what I have to run on my demo??!!!!! Originally they said they were going to offer different links for the most popular shocks and that turned out to be a hoax. The fox RC4 is ok but i dont want a shock that is already programmed from the factory with a ton of compression built into it. Come on Specialized...get with the program, give us more options so that we can decide how plush we can make our bikes. I do not want some bike manager dictating how plush I can run my bike!!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 @ iainmac-1

I know that carbon is thinner on road bikes.

That is why I said they are layered differently, both road and mtn bikes can and have been ridden in excess of 60km/h in competition.

Not narrow minded just spewing fact, the con you speak of is a big one. It's not that hard to put a good chip in carbon frames and parts, I've done it a few times and have seen lots of frames/seatposts and bars fail!
  • 1 0
 Ok Mr and Mrs Pinkbike experts..... Here we go.... A tube made of aluminium is not as strong as a tube made from carbon fibre of the same thickness, not by a long way! Carbon fibre is strong as owt, and you wont break it!!!!!!! If you did, for whatever reason, apply such a large force as tp damage it, then yes, it would definately not be ridable becase a flaw in the weave can cause catastophic failure, however, find me one carbon dh bike thats snapped, and i will be amazed! Carbon fibre is a wonder material! Liter than titanium, stronger than steel! Embrace it! If its good enough to be used to make a set of wings for an A380 with a 200 foot wingspan, then its good enough for the little toys we bump down little hills! Smile
  • 1 0
 Thickness for thickness most carbon fiber composites are not as strong as aluminum. However the strength to density ratio is much higher enabling thicker tubes that are stronger than thin walled aluminum while retaining a low mass.

The "stronger than steel" comparison may be true in a purely tensile stress regime however carbon composites that are useful for making rigid parts have a much lower shock impact (frame strikes rock) strain tolerance and a considerably lower compression strength. If you look at how a carbon fiber part is manufactured it becomes clear why it has such different stress characteristics from a homogeneous metal part.
  • 1 0
 Nope, was just pointing out that they are not the next best thing. They will break just like aluminium frames. I like carbon, just don't think people should buy into the hype so easily. An aluminium frame will handle everyday crashes and handling better than carbon. Carbon is better for all mtn or xc riding.
  • 1 0
 I think it is funny reading all of the comments from the skeptics out there. I can only imagine what it was like when they decided to go to aluminum frames. I have been running a carbon v10 for two seasons now and I have not had a single problem. One guy mentioned that they are louder because the amplify any creaking noises--I actually find the opposite to be true with this bike. It is the quietest bike I have ever ridden. The carbon actually reduces vibration when compared to aluminum. I am glad for the progression of materials to progress the sport. To all the skeptics--try and get some time on one of these bikes and you will notice the difference.
  • 6 2
 carbon demo holy shit!!!!!!!!
  • 12 11
 i dont understand why so many carbon dh bikes are coming out, I mean yeah its nice to lose 1.5 pounds on a bike but its a dh bike your not pedaling up a hill so it doesnt really affect it that much. Just my opinion
  • 8 2
 CArbon bikes are stiffer AND lighter man.. Hahah 1020= Its 420 somewhere! Celebrate it!
  • 2 0
 yea and theres a big market for them everyone is drooling over them comparing them to like angelina jolie in boots
  • 6 1
 carbon is stiffer, lighter and more durable vs aluminum frames. not unless you're stuck in the past where carbon parts and frames break easily, snap out of it! carbon manufacturing process and technology keeps improving every year and this is the best time to take advantage of it. ever imagined why GT and santa cruz currently make their DH frames in 'carbon only' to the masses?
  • 8 10
 Carbon fiber will still need chucking after you have a crash most aluminium frames will not.
  • 12 3
 ^excuse me, are you an idiot?
  • 3 0
 I'll still wait a few years before I think about getting a carbon frame , wanna see the results of crashes and rock impacts before I put my pennies there!
  • 8 3
 Carbon fiber is stronger than aluminium and that's fact BUT in an impact it needs to be replaced before you end up with a new butt hole.
  • 9 5
 Ali frame: rock flicks up and leaves a dent - rider is angry but the bike is probably still rideable

Carbon: rock flicks up and writes off the frame :/

I don't want to pay £1000s for a frame that can't fend off a rock... Plus I quite like a good crash now and then to!
  • 1 0
 Carbon fibre on road bikes is repairable. I don't know if DH bikes are. Calfee does carbon repairs when he not busy making bikes out of bamboo.
  • 4 0
 Are you only a Pinkbike engineer if you make assumptions supporting carbon and not one if you make assumptions against it? You're including yourself as one of those "Pinkbike engineers" that you laugh at, correct?
  • 4 0
 People tend to forget that frames have been made from carbon fiber for years,it is not a new wonder material so i don't need to make assumptions when i know for sure that carbon fiber will need replacing after a crash,people neg prop simply because they don't want their fave bike company being slagged of when in reality i ain't slagging of spesh i'm just stating a fact and people should be made aware of this but mfrs will forget to mention this slight over sight in their advertising buff.
  • 1 0
 No doubt cabon has had its failures in the past and present, but carbon has mostly been used in light weight applications where none of the bikes have been built for abuse. I just haven't being hearing about massive failures in the newer more aggresive DH and AM carbon bikes, but maybe no one has crashed one yet? I wish someone would hurry up and crash one so we can finally be shown the truth about carbon. I have heard of and seen many aluminium frames crack (obviously due to volume, you'll see more aluminium failures).

If it was really as bad as you claim we would be hearing about many broken frames since people have been riding, racing and crashing carbon Mojo's, Nomads, Enduros, v10s, ect. I guess we should stick to that magical material of aluminium like the Revolt, I hear it's industructable! Properly designed bikes will hold up well and poorly designed bikes will break, doesn't matter what material you use.
  • 1 0
 V10 carbon is kinda new so give it time.
  • 1 0
 How long will we have to wait for someone to crash on one?
  • 1 0
 Depends on the rider.
  • 2 0
 is it any different to the 2011 demo besides the carbon ? The only thing i'm not sure about is what the price would be so i hope they still make an aliminium one aswell
  • 1 0
 I'm confused as to what this means for the 2012 demos. Are they going to be carbon, or is that going to be the last year of aluminum, then carbon in 2013?
  • 3 1
 There will still have to be alloy models There is no way they could expect to pay off the mold costs by by only having the carbon model.
  • 4 0
 How much does a mold cost?
  • 1 0
 familyman, Santa Cruz did. But then again, they have a whole other marketing theory. bubbaleech, that is something none of us will ever know, unless working for such a bike manufacturer.
  • 1 0
 Many years ago I heard that a mold cost $90k. Someone below says $150k nowadays, so that sorta confirms what I heard.
  • 1 0
 Depending on the complexity they can run 15-30k per size (front triangle only) so if you have 3 sizes it ain't cheap.

You can modify some molds slightly depending on what the issue is but hard points cannot be changed so your angles need to be bang on before you start.

Carbon is a hard game to play in.
  • 1 0
 I hate when teenagers can't get jobs for bikes like these! I just wish I was good enough to get sponsored ......I'm so jealous to anyone that will get one of these
  • 2 0
 Meh, I'd be more interesting in seeing what comes out of this: spokemagazine.com/2011/07/24/new-specialized
  • 2 1
 This doesn't really look like the carbon, it just looks like the Black Ano frame that Specialized puts out for custom builds.
  • 1 0
 It's because they wanted to keep it hidden so they painted it!!
  • 2 0
 These are the models for 2012 ... www.pinkbike.com/photo/6897670
probably for 2013
  • 1 0
 There's no weld because it is carbon.


And for Cannondale, they actually weld two (2) times on the same spot. Then get the extra metal off.
  • 1 0
 Anyone heard about this bike will make it's debut in world champs champery ? I think team monster energy would be on it if it is true ?
  • 3 1
 why not just keep your old demo?
  • 1 2
 aaaaaah you're "has been" !!!
  • 1 1
 Cause carbon is new. If you like the alum versions, I have a few available......
  • 2 0
 I would love to have one all top spec...... Dream on dream on
  • 2 0
 Lol, I wouldn't like to put that on a uplift here in the UK Razz
  • 1 2
 I guess alot of people going to be running carbon dh bikes next year. Then at end of season expect a mass warranty when they all fall to pieces lolololol. I got my carbon underwear!!!!!
  • 1 0
 there are going to be so many sweet Al demos for sale soon!! can't wait to scoop one up! lol
  • 1 0
 if anyone can, specialized can demo a carbon bike, welcome to the club,....
  • 2 0
 Evil Undead, carbon Session 88, V10 carbon, all much nicer than this imo
  • 1 0
 carbon fiber scares me, you never know when its about to snap, it just does
  • 3 1
 it will be mine.
  • 1 0
 lol, nice one Kurt! tup
  • 1 0
 u just got one....
  • 5 0
 and it's old already. im a carbon whore.
  • 1 0
 nice to hear i think i might be one too
  • 1 0
 I have been waiting for this OMG yes !! tup !!!!
  • 1 0
 the 2012 carbon demo forum was accurate afterall!
  • 1 0
 Two weeks ago it was the Trek 9.9.
  • 1 0
 i think thats so awesome! cant wait for them to come into production!
  • 1 0
 I was wondering how long it would be before it was spotted.
  • 1 0
 When will giant show up to this party?
  • 1 0
 End of August. No question... But the Glory Advanced SL won't be a production bike til 2013. Wink
  • 2 0
 You got proof of this?
  • 3 0
 A little bird told him... .. actually it was a Giant bird! Boom! Boom!
  • 1 0
 Proof schmoof, this is the bike industry! The whole thing runs on rumour and conjecture. The thing with Giant is they won't release a bike until they're 100% happy with it. The Glory Mk2 was supposed to be a 2009 bike, but was still 1% away from ready, so it was pushed back until 2010, and we had the blue 'n' black 09, that seemed really out of date by that point.

So Glory Mk1 was intended for 06, 07, 08 model years. Mk2 was intended for 09, 10, 11, but pushed back til 10, 11, 12. Mk3 (Glory Advanced SL) for 2013 onwards?

Giant are building 5.9 million bikes this year (2.4 million will have another brand name on the down tube!), so their production schedule really is planned years in advanced.
And those carbon molds cost $150,000 each... Say they have 10 of each size, that's $4.5 million just on the molds. You don't 'click to go' on that order, until you're *sure* it's right. BTW, I have no idea how many individual molds they have, it could be 1, 10, or 100...?
  • 1 0
 Ya I've been saying this all season, Giant has the carbon glory in prototype stage already. I really think the top dh racers on team giant have been racing the carbon glory this whole season. It looks like the old glory and has the same paint job but we know better. Giant keeps things under wraps, not like these other giggling gosip hounds at specialized and trek. People aren't ready for the 31 lbs carbon glory. The alum glory version is 35lbs, same as carbon trek and specilized so imagine what carbon will do for it. Next time you in the Giant pitts tap on one of they frames and see if its carbon.
  • 1 0
 I work at a Giant retailer, so Im going to ask the rep on tues. if he knows anything about it.
  • 1 0
 Also, I just looked through the photos of the giant team at the WC in Fort Bill, and I see welds on every frame.
  • 2 1
 Where's my Giant Glory Advanced SL ?
  • 1 0
 I'd like to know one thing in particular, 135 rear or 150..?
  • 1 0
 so called this in the other specialized article!
  • 1 0
 se ve rica y debe trabajar como una diosa.
  • 1 0
 damn, tha't porn on wheels...
  • 2 0
 BRING BACK THE DEMO 9!!!
  • 1 0
 Demo 8 2011 for sale will be pouring pretty soon!
  • 1 0
 V-10, Undead, Session 88, Demo 8.. Glory's next..
  • 1 0
 if i have the money spare when it comes out, i'll go for it
  • 1 0
 Yup. Specialized is going to SLAY for 2012!!!
  • 1 0
 This looks sweet but will they ever make a carbon big-hit?
  • 1 0
 Probably not. The bighit is a bog standard freeride bike, the reason Demo's, V10's and Session 88's are carbon is because they're all for racing, the bighit isn't.
  • 1 0
 I still love Yeti more than ever...
  • 1 0
 421mm rear end!! I like a lot!
  • 1 0
 New Intense Carbon Bikes here: spokenaboutbicycles.blogspot.com
  • 6 6
 looks like a trek session
  • 4 1
 ow here we go again...
  • 1 1
 did u ever think that maybe Trek looks like the others Smile
  • 4 0
 This has to be a joke. Demos look nothing like Sessions
  • 3 0
 i wouldnt put a to high bet on it cause, you know its the internet.. but i guess that was a joke...
  • 2 0
 Troll-lololing
  • 2 2
 Don't like. GT Fury looks better.
  • 1 0
 yup thats carbon..
  • 1 0
 edit sorry
  • 1 0
 Where can I get one dude
  • 1 0
 how much is this?
  • 11 13
 i would definitely prefer aluminum. when carbon breaks, that shit really breaks.
  • 10 2
 ya for an every day rider Aluminum is the way to go.
  • 6 13
flag angrynipples (Jul 22, 2011 at 22:01) (Below Threshold)
 definitely. I dont think there will ever be a need for a carbon frame in the freeride world
  • 10 0
 that's like 5 years ago when carbon manufacturing engineering sucked! wake up! everything has improved now. in fact, GT and santa cruz will only sell their DH frames in carbon only. no aluminum version. that's how much faith they have in carbon. im not surprised trek and specialized are following suit. why? trek and specialized have been making road, XC and AM bikes in carbon in the last 3-4 years! this is the ultimate test of their engineering know how. if it fails, they fail hard that's for sure because GT and santa cruz know nothing about carbon shiit and they're still in the business.
  • 5 1
 Apart from the fact that... GT make and sell aluminium DH bike, and Santa Cruz are a BRAND, not a MANUFACTURER. They haven't actually 'made' any carbon frames. Giant do that for them.
I don't know who makes the carbon Fury, but you can be damn sure it's not a GT-owned facility. Wink
  • 5 0
 When will Orange build a carbon downhill bike?

Imagine the weight of a single pivot carbon frame.
  • 1 0
 Orange are very proud of all their high end bikes being UK made. It'd be very difficult to build a high end carbon DH frame (at a competitive price) in the UK.
  • 6 0
 All this speculation about Carbon frames being weak, or easy to damage is getting ridiculous. Where is the proof? Where are all the broken carbon DH frames? Mark my words, carbon is the future. Unless you are an engineer of carbon bikes, you don't know your d from your a, so stfu.
  • 2 0
 mankind could progress so much faster...
  • 2 0
 How many broken carbon road frames do you think are out there? LOTS!

DH is no different and trees and rocks are as bad or worse than pavement and cars.

Biggest difference is there are still only a handful of carbon DH frames out there compared to 100's of road designs.
  • 1 0
 So a downhill bike weighs 15lbs now? sweet.
  • 2 0
 @ familyman- your right that there are a lot more road bike designs than dh designs, but when they make dh designs they make the frame extremely thick compared to the road bikes, so that they dont break. the only people who break road bikes are the dip shits that jump them of fSmile king curbs because they dont know better. theres obviously a difference between that and greg minnar in val di sole, italy who doesnt have a cracked frame. now how many curbs can u fit in val di sole, italy?
  • 2 1
 did you seriously compare roadbikes to dh bikes?
  • 4 1
 Oh wait guys... go easy on familyman... he rides norcos. The one company behind all the others.
  • 1 0
 The technology used inside the carbon frame manufacturing process is the same whether it's a road or mtn bike. The layering and fibre compound is what makes the difference. You guys need to get educated, carbon is rigid and will fail just like aluminium does.
  • 1 0
 yes right, dream on
  • 2 0
 So that's why so many carbon DH bikes are broken, right?
  • 1 0
 @familyman
I actually think someone else needs educated. Carbon road bikes are made very thin compared to DH bikes
You said that rocks and trees are worse than pavements, but you forget these bikes go around 60km/h. Any crash at that speed will do damage.
Don't you think you're being a bit narrow minded?
Carbon is rigid like you say but it is way stronger than Alu if done right. The ONLY con to carbon is that once damaged it is very weak because it's so brittle.
  • 1 0
 @ iainmac-1
I know that carbon is thinner on road bikes. That is why I said they are layered differently, both road and mtn bikes can and have been ridden in excess of 60km/h in competition. Not narrow minded just spewing fact, the con you speak of is a big one. It's not that hard to put a good chip in carbon frames and parts, I've done it a few times and have seen lots of frames/seatposts and bars fail!
  • 1 0
 @ adamlaycockphoto,

You ride a Rocky dj frame yet you comment on the company I ride not having a carbon dh, well neither does rocky mtn?

How do you rationalize your comment?
  • 1 0
 I dont care if Rocky has a carbon frame. Im not the one making an arguement that carbon sucks.
  • 1 0
 When did I say carbon sucks. I have 2 carbon xc bikes I ride all the time! Just be proud we both support Canadian brands and call it a day.
  • 1 0
 "How many broken carbon road frames do you think are out there? LOTS!

DH is no different and trees and rocks are as bad or worse than pavement and cars."

Kind of implying that carbon can't handle dh, meaning that you think it sucks...
  • 1 0
 Nope, was just pointing out that they are not the next best thing. They will break just like aluminium frames. I like carbon, just don't think people should buy into the hype so easily. An aluminium frame will handle everyday crashes and handling better than carbon. Carbon is better for all mtn or xc riding.
  • 1 0
 well, i can't wait to see a broken DH frame pretty soon, hehe.
  • 1 0
 @ ALLyour all pathetic if you fighting over whats the next best thing shut up i like the idea of carbon but i dont think it will be the next best thing i do agree with family man because he knows his shit also @adamlaycockphoto norco isnt the brand bhind them all i run a norco and i love it and all my friends love it soo u can shut ur mouth and just ride your little dj around
  • 2 0
 what exactly is the next thing then? since you seem to have the uber special insight that is above our minds?
  • 1 1
 OH. MAH. GOD.
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