Trek Goes 650B - Press Release

Jul 17, 2013 at 11:05
by Mike Levy  
Source: Trek

Trek Bicycle today previewed their 650B plans to European retailers and select members of the European bike press, unveiling two revamped platforms in the technical trail and enduro product lines. The Slash and Remedy lines will be offered in 650B options to address those segments where the emerging wheel size is most suited to the terrain and rider demands.

Slash 650B

The high-end Slash 9 is built up with SRAM's X01 drivetrain and FOX suspension hung on its revamped aluminum frame.


The 160mm-travel Slash has been completely redesigned from the ground up with a focus on the emerging and demanding enduro scene. With a lower bottom bracket and slacker head tube than the 26-inch version, the Slash 650B provides a lower, longer position for the competitive enduro racer. Amazingly, the alloy frame weighs 350 grams less than its 26-inch predecessor.

Remedy 650B

The 650B Remedy is in addition to the already released 29er model, and there are six models of 650B Remedy bikes in total. How long until we see a carbon frame for the big-wheeler?


The Remedy line adds 140mm-travel alloy and carbon 650B options to complement the 29er lineup launched in early June. The smaller-wheeled sibling was built around the nimble ride characteristics of 650B wheels to offer technical trail riders a more playful option alongside the more confidence-inspiring 29er. The Remedy 650B will be offered in both OCLV MTB carbon and Alpha Platinum Aluminum.

Trek geometry

bigquotesAfter a decade plus of alternative wheel size development, testing, refining, and debating, it's become clear that for trail riders wheel size is primarily about riding style. 29'' will be fastest for XC racing, but as we get into more trail riding, 650B and 29 can both excel on the same trail. Then it really comes down to how different riders tackle the same trail in their own way. So the Remedy now has the confidence-inspiring 29er option and the more playful 650B option. Then the Slash gets the new small wheel treatment with a ground-up 650B chassis. - Travis Ott, Global MTB Brand Manager

Trek's 650B models will hit worldwide retailers this autumn.

www.trekbikes.com




Pinkbike's Take

While they might have taken their time getting to the mid-wheeled pool party, Trek is certainly the largest brand to jump in. And they aren't just dipping their toes into the water, with the expense of a brand new mold for the carbon fiber Remedy 650B platform being the equivalent of a cannon ball sent right into the middle of the pool. Trek's massive resources have allowed them to design and manufacture both 29'' and 650B-wheeled versions of the Remedy platform, with the aluminum 29er model debuted in early June, thereby allowing consumers to choose the wheel size that makes the most sense for them... so long as they aren't looking for 26'' wheels, that is. Having spent an admittedly limited amount of time so far on the aluminum framed Remedy 29er, we can say that the bike is a potent trail weapon that handles unlike any 29er of similar travel that we have spent time on - it is a very good bike and we are excited about the obvious prospect of a carbon framed model that is no doubt in the works. Will the 650B compare as favourably?

The 650B wheeled Slash is even more interesting in our minds, as it is a travel bracket that sees many rider still looking for 26'' wheels. The previous 26'' wheeled Slash is one hell of a potent bike for rowdy terrain, and the slightly bigger rollover capabilities of this new 650B version will likely only improve the bike's performance. But will the consumers bite? If the near extinction of performance level 26'' wheeled bikes wasn't clear before, it now seems to be written in 10ft tall letters on the wall in front of us. Interesting, this announcement means that new wheel sizes have been deployed for Trek's entire high-end full suspension lineup barring one model: the Session. We were given the ''no comment at this time'' answer when we asked about a possible 650B-wheeled DH bike in early June, but we have a sneaking suspicion that not only have 650B Sessions been tested, but that we'll also see them under Trek World Racing riders at some point this season. Bigger wheels for World Champs in South Africa? We think so. - Mike Levy



392 Comments

  • 141 7
 These wheels definitely suit the bike now, 650b you are welcome but be warned, us 26ers are threatened by your arrival and may strike out wildly.
  • 19 47
flag thedeathstar (Jul 17, 2013 at 11:27) (Below Threshold)
 I hardly see the slash as better suited to 650b.
  • 29 4
 The Slash is not a Scratch, when Trek left the Scratch behind, they acknowledged their departure from the Free-ride genre. Sure you could put a 180mm fork on the Session, but really they don't have a free ride bike anymore.
  • 35 5
 Dh bikes got so light it killed the free-ride machine. What could the Scratch do that a Session couldn't? That's why it's demise.
  • 57 2
 And AM bikes have become so much more capable.
  • 15 4
 that's right, so basically, an in-between bike became irrelevant.
  • 43 2
 I still ride the scratch, and it feels a little more capable than a dedicated all mountain bike, and can get up a hill better than a downhill bike.
  • 9 4
 Darkstar you obviously have never ridden a scratch air.
  • 27 4
 all this wheel size crap is like diet drinks, lite beer, new and improved blah blah blah to me. - old but still26ed and 20s for me. the buy/sell is gonna be ripe with deals once this gets going.

as long as these wheel sizes create and sustain more naturally harder technical terrain so to promote their existence, i can keep my 160mm 26er forever and i should be good..
  • 8 5
 Actually I am really thinking about putting a single crown on my session now
  • 13 5
 Yet another person who has not actually taken the time to ride different wheel sizes. Is there any technology that has ever gotten it perfect the first time? Or any high end sport where changes to equipment don't yield different results? Wheel size has a MASSIVE effect on what the bike is capable of. And it's awesome that we now have the choice!
  • 9 0
 I'll be excited to see a press release from trek when they release the ticket and remedy slopestyle bikes.
  • 4 0
 Fullbug my biggest worry will be tyre choice for us 26" stalwarts
  • 26 1
 most importantly, any wheel size that brings you fun is the right one for you at the end of the day.
  • 5 0
 @deli-hustler- probably. what about suspension too? will new frame designs bring new kinematics to it all, making current "standard" offerings disappear? scary times, brother. I've gotta cross whistler off my bucket list while I'm still on 26s before my vacation money is forced to disappear just because of new bike wheel size! haha
  • 3 1
 No Chain I have not, but I own and ride a Remedy running a 160 fork and 66 degree head angle and it rips absolutely everything. So my point was, with the Slash, you have a bike right in between my bike and the Session. The Scratch Air was like a single crown air shock equipped Session. And there is nothing wrong with that, (I would love one) but they prob found that it wasn't selling because in most cases you would either just go with a Session, because you are going big or riding lift serviced trails, or you would go with the Slash or Remedy depending on your trails.
  • 42 95
flag Wimpey (Jul 17, 2013 at 14:08) (Below Threshold)
 Listen, if you don't have the American flag in front of your name your opinion doesn't matter. Go back to eating waffles and fried chicken.Ohh wait. Those are our people.Typically from the Southeast portion of the country. I meant fish and chips. That's what you people eat. Shitty Food. Just like shitty fighters when it comes to fighting wars. The United States of America is god gift to cycling, road cycling, mountain cycling, and uni-cycling. We do it better than anybody. We have Lance Armstrong who killed cancer and then killed any rider that tried to beat him.

These bikes are so awesome and if you don't like them its because you are probably from France or worse French Canadia. God gave us 29ers so we didn't have to ride 26 inch wheels like the homosexuals and hipsters. 29 inch wheels are so strong you can do huge airs like bunny hops and wheelies. They are so awesome I cant believe people don't like them. Do you think I'm crazy? I just don't know why you people cant just get over 650b. Sadam Hussein invented them to draw us apart. If you ride 650b the terrorists win. Is that what you want? I would rather you ride a 26er like the homosexuals and the hipsters than ride something that comes from a godless crazy terrorist.

When I look at the bikes above a few things come to mind. Eagles, fireworks, daisy duke shorts on a red head with a Daddy issue, big fake breasts, and of course the before mentioned fired chicken and waffles. Not any of those Belgian waffles. Them really skinny ones you get at Waffle House that might as well be pancakes. The only difference is they have all the pockets to hold syrup. We need to have unity. We can all agree that 650b is terrorist non-sense. UNITY B*TCH*ES.
  • 5 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Jul 17, 2013 at 14:08) (Below Threshold)
 @typX - massive dofference what bike is capable of? Hm you might have ridden all wheel sizes and shapes but if you do believe in what you just wrote and, deny how massive is the exaggeration you just made then you have little clue about riding a mountain bike.
  • 25 4
 Wimpey that was pretty offensive... Also the first time, I think, that Saddam Hussein has been brought up here in the comments section on Pinkbike. Nice work. I didn't know hipster's rode 26", in fact, do hipster's care what they ride? Isnt that, like, their thing? I also didnt know terrorists were behind 650b, interesting fact. Also of interest, if anybody cares, I like fish and chips but have never put chicken anywhere near my waffles.... am I anti-american?!?!?!?!?
  • 3 1
 why does this situation feel like goldilocks and the 3 bears? small frame builders have been doin 650b for years now. it's probably THE segment to watch trends happen. fatbikes, fixies, commuters, even carbon back in the day.
  • 10 4
 Yeah except 26" is the porridge that's just right Smile
  • 4 0
 I smell sarcasm
  • 33 6
 Wimpey, people who make remarks like that (sarcastic or not) makes me feel terrible about being an American.
  • 3 1
 Exactly.
  • 11 2
 Wimpey you must be smokin' some royal crack in there...get real.
  • 2 0
 i wouldn't get bent on wimpey. freedom of speech has no provisions for volume or content. this portion of our rants is about to get the mod shut down anyway. we're on closed trails now..see you gentlemen in the next article!
  • 2 2
 They need to come out with a slope bike
  • 7 0
 Feckin legend. Funny stuff.
  • 9 0
 I am willing to sacrifice some climbing ability for the added sense of security that my freeride bike brings on the way down. I ride mostly Downhill but can't always shuttle. I want a DH bike that I can pedal up not a trail bike that can descend if that makes sense.
  • 3 1
 so much for Trek saying "we are currently not interested in the 27.5 wheel size"... these bikes are monsters.
  • 2 0
 This is where I think bikes like the Scratch shine. The all mountain bikes I have had experience with were very capable on the downhill but some of the trails I ride I wouldn't feel totally comfortable riding with them. I never like to feel limited by the bike I'm on.
  • 1 3
 Yay a new bikee bike 650byatch what ya wanna do son!!!!!!!!! I can't wait till Trek releases thier steroid solution so we can all get jacked. Do I go to Mexico again? Is it smuggled in sun screan? Hurry up with release we need.
  • 17 3
 Why is Wimpey getting neg propped? he is hilarious! Obvious tongue in cheek (dick in mouth)! I think there is merit in 650B, but something about the way it was handled by the industry: very few 650B in 2012, then all of a sudden it's the bees knees in 2013. Just seems like a way for the industry to get us to keep spending our money when they can't keep throwing the same old suspension linkages, forks, carbon, disk brakes, 10 speed drive trains at us...
  • 4 10
flag elanto (Jul 17, 2013 at 17:09) (Below Threshold)
 Looks like a trek session ??
  • 4 6
 "Wimpey" just is dumb ass American like is friend "adamrice868 "
  • 6 13
flag RodRamsey (Jul 17, 2013 at 18:40) (Below Threshold)
 Yo racerfacer is my new canadian brother. Finally someone agree this has all been an industry desperation move hyped by these pink bitches who getting seatposts ramrods up they ass for free. None of that crap selling out here canuks. Maybe couple spandex idiots or 29er old timers. Nobody cares about 650bitch machines. I'll tire tap your big canadian forehead with my team skavenger20" 26"29.76"39.6540" in your face with a can of mace baby. Feel it burning now you learnin.
  • 7 1
 oh, I ride a 29er and wear spandex
  • 8 0
 Lets face it we are sitting at home tonight with our 26" wheels being told by the "capitalist" that they are no good and that we should go out and spend five grand or more so that we can potentially be 5 seconds faster on our next two hour ride.

I would rather take the five grand to Vegas as the ride would be a lot more exciting and it would certainly last more than 5 seconds!
  • 7 2
 Wimpey was probably just joking... or drunk... or high.. or all three!
  • 4 9
flag RodRamsey (Jul 17, 2013 at 22:40) (Below Threshold)
 You guys in big trouble when canadians even agree with homeboy no good from da hood about these company fruitcakes trying a desperation 4th down pass too get us tweakin on 650buttcrack machines after we all just spent $35,000 each on 26" mtb shit over last 4 years. You think we really that stupid? Well honestly most pinks are but not happening here trek company queers. You going to blow your own market haaaaaaa. I got rims, tires, build many wheels. Yo anyone need a 26" hollar. You guys messed up when you stopped making that freeride bike. Market research team of morons. Hire me, I kick peoples door down and tell you straight in your face whats good.
  • 6 1
 English: you struggle at it
  • 3 13
flag RodRamsey (Jul 17, 2013 at 22:49) (Below Threshold)
 Rigid high seatpost anal people you are the best one. Read up send me the specs on some 650 dildo bike you fruitynuttbar.
  • 6 2
 Im I the only 1 who saw wimpy was taking the royal piss!! Haha funny guy!
  • 1 7
flag RodRamsey (Jul 18, 2013 at 3:54) (Below Threshold)
 I going to pretend I don't know how to read or understand what your trying to communicate about our poor lost soul wimpy.
  • 4 0
 Must be a British thing, severe sarcasm is daily practice in the UK.
  • 4 8
flag RodRamsey (Jul 18, 2013 at 4:04) (Below Threshold)
 Ya I'm a british silly nanny soiled mouth who moved to NYC 250 years ago.
  • 4 0
 come on giuys, chillax!

I think wimpey may have been extracting the urine

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
  • 2 0
 These postings just made my day. hahahaha .... 'mericuh!!
  • 1 2
 Yes, I think what we have here is some good ole fashioned sarcasm. Has anyone thought that these forums of public opinion have no bearing on the sport. Just a inept way have having a good ole fashioned penis measuring contest. Do we honestly believe that builders of the steeds we ride comb through these comment sections looking for rider response. I personally doubt it. While we should all "chillax" like my man Kimbers suggested. Any sort of dick measuring should be done on the trail, not in cyber world.

While for some reason I have felt necessary to respond to trailstar2danman, Wimpey and I are not friends we are actually mortal enemies that have been forced into working together. The only thing we have in common is we both would rather kill one another. We compete fiercely in everything we do, from cycling, fajita making, beer drinking, and screwin gals with big chesticles.

As for 650b on these Trek bicycles. Very interesting.
  • 2 6
flag DARKSTAR63 (Jul 18, 2013 at 7:58) (Below Threshold)
 Wimp's post sarcastic or not was racist and asinine. Tongue in cheek or not when you sound like an ass it doesnt matter. I know this place is full of teenager's and I was a little bit of clown at that age but try to act more adult. Save the b.s. for the playground.
  • 2 2
 whimpey shouldnt have freedom of speech.. esp. when your brain is not connected when typing..
  • 2 1
 I'm ok with whimpey. it's the same reason why we run suspension on our bikes. you won't know it's workin if you don't run into things. his comment is just like a feature or line on a trail..who likes a boring flat trail? your choice to hit, send, or avoid it. if you're suspension is dialled you roll right over it.
  • 6 0
 "Good bikes and parts do not come from following fads. Bike parts are tools, not fashion statements". -Keith Bontrager. I think generally most riders want to invest in an established, proven technology, something quality, not something still in development, not something that market researchers will axe if they decide it's obsolete or not trending. I don't want cheapish wheels on my bike, but between new axle standards and wheel sizes, how do I know where the bikes are going so I can invest in good wheels? A bike is 26" in 2013, then it's 29" for 2013.5, oh wait, now it seems to be going 26b for 2014... I think the high end customers are apprehensive because of this dancing around, and I imagine it's expensive for the manufacturers to have two sizes in each model either...I just don't see the value, and don't see anyone winning from this.
  • 1 1
 They don't base the frame for their slope style bikes off of the remedy, it's base off of the Fuel ex frame, you can tell because there's no adjustable geometry, and trek has no plans to re release the ticket, as of yet according to the dealer site.
  • 3 0
 WO WO WO.. Less of the fish and chips
  • 4 0
 Darkstar sounding like an arse and sarcasm go hand in hand most the time. You need to chill out. What he said was funny because he's isn't serious, and why should he act like an adult? He's got the rest of his life for that. Bikes are not a serious subject!
  • 3 0
 Also fish and chips beat hot dogs hands down so let's not get onto that Wink
  • 3 1
 Trust me davie im not bent. But let's be honest he sounds like an idiot talking about 'merica this and that it's embaressing lol. Im with you on fish and chips I wish we had a better legacy than hotdogs and hamburgers !! Smile
  • 1 0
 sad to see why free ride bikes are going the way of the dinosaurs, but glad to know that my ideas aren't far off as well. bike tech has gone so advanced, it blurred the lines between what an FR bike is nowadays.
  • 2 1
 mountguitars - I think it will come back , DH race hype is dying out slowly, so people will want some long-travel bikes that are easier to ride at low speeds. Let's face it, current DH race bikes are as fun to ride for average gravity joe as XC race bikes for avergae lycra joe. People have dreams of being WC racers, starting at the age of 40 - you can cheat yourself, fine everyone does that every day, we all ave our own versions of reality, but those delusions can't last more than a couple of years - It has too end... at least that is my opinion. Slack&low as a kind of dogma will die out like huck-to-flat. Enduro will finaly prove to people that you don't need 8" of travel and 2ply tyres to go flat out on your local trails, you don't need a huge bike to prove to yourself how manly you are, and not everyone lives next to the lifts and honestly enjoys WC level gnar, to take full advantage of a DH racing rig.
  • 1 0
 hold up waki.. i know i can do with less..after 7 years. but my DH rig gives me balls... a bit more than the SC bikes... I still call marketing as the cause...
  • 1 0
 I agree Waki to a point. Low long slack race bikes are tremendous fun to ride, and I enjoy racing at the grassroots level with no expectation of stardom. I ride for the only reason worth anything and that's myself. So, that being said, for that reason all mountain bikes gain in popularity- because thats what most of us ride most of the time. Up and down.
  • 1 1
 I'm not attacking DH bikes. I meant that I feel that people will still want long travel bikes giving them balls, but not necessarily at geometries made for going warp speeds on roughest shit. Many people ride DH bikes on "manicured" trails because they want error margin when they want to go big. Then AM/ Enduro bikes: sure it's just now that it becomes widely recognized that you can also go big on them and all that time they were as robust as slope style bikes. But 6" and shorter bikes don't provide that confidence boost, so there will be room for something in between like Scratch. Off course plenty of bikes like that exist, like TR250, but you know, it takes the mainstream to catch on to really establish a "genre", just as Enduro made cleaned AM riders from "dork" image.

Then as far as I understand freeride and riding really free, I'd love to see something allowing people to ride away from the trail, so 6" travel balloon wheels anyone?
  • 1 0
 there was this V-10 on here..... with balloon tires lol
  • 1 1
 That's a good beginning cyberhawk Big Grin You can't uphill a V10 though! Maybe SC Bronson or Spec Enduro with balloon wheels? I want 29" Balloons!
  • 1 1
 darkstar your legacy isn't hotdogs and hamburgers... it's all mcdonalds food
  • 1 0
 That's even worse ...
  • 2 0
 "Sadam Hussein invented them to draw us apart. If you ride 650b the terrorists win" Now that was one hell of a line,
  • 1 0
 ehhr.. there never were any terrorists.. ? or do you mean the guys the NSA hired.. ?
  • 1 0
 The scratch could climb.
  • 61 3
 I wonder how long it will be after the death of the 26 inch wheel for 26inch wheels to make their triumphent return as the best thing eva?
  • 38 0
 Well, how long will it take for us to all buy a 650b bike? My guess is that'll be about when 26ers make their return.
  • 11 1
 they cant market 26" as something "new and improved." hooray for marketing!
  • 14 5
 Ever try bunny hopping a 29er. I had a curb grow 10 sizes in mid hop!
  • 26 7
 26ers will return as niche products with fun and handling finesse in focus, completely not minding the ticking clock at the races. Whether bigger wheels are actualy faster or confidence inspiring, is absolutely irrelevant - Market needs to saturate and people need to treat different wheels just as they treat different rotor sizes these days. Once big wheels become normality, 26" wheels will be able to stand out from the crowd again. Give it 5-7 years and thanks to that 29-27.5 histeria we will get the best 26ers ever. I think Spesh left Stumpy Evo just because people buy this bike for pure fun, and the rest is for those who still believe that one day, somehow, despite having an office job and family, they might be 12.5mm from the top of some podium.

It's all good! Sit back and enjoy it, watch it as a train passing by
  • 9 0
 Will the train be on or off the tracks?
  • 8 2
 this argument goes great with the not so long ago "are the trails becoming too manicured" discussion. With smoother trails and bike parks yeah, 26er is becoming a dinosaur. But if you want to ride a 29er down val di sol, il pay for a plane ticket to watch you in person
  • 8 0
 Can't believe I'm actually surprised Waki got negative props for a very level headed statement. Bang on tho, its all irrelevant to why most of us ride, FUN. As I said somewhere else I'm still having as much fun today as I did in the 90's on a rigid bike. Tech is nice but not be all and end all. Your most fun ride was probably not based on being a second quicker down loved singletrack..
  • 3 0
 I agree, increased reliability is more likely to increase the likely hood of a good ride ratger than sqving seconds.
  • 5 1
 "georgy291" i'm packing my bag and ready too go ANYTIME bro. Smile
  • 4 2
 Well, probably never. 26" wheels have run their course, and now that the bigger wheel technology is being perfected they'll fade away like any other outdated technology. 27.5" wheels have great ride qualities. That's why people are buying them, not just becuase of marketing like a lot of people want to think. To put the 26" wheel falling out of favour in perspective, look at it this way: do you think v-brakes will come back to replace discs? Don't you think some riders back then thought discs were just marketing? They work better, plain and simple. Ride a 650b and you'll probably like it. Not nearly as drastic as 29", but has some great qualities of a big wheel. Really though, no matter how much people whine and bitch and complain that they want their 26" wheels, they are going to be replaced whether they like it or not. I'm sure there may be some old school riders out there who still like v-brakes, but they are the minority. The more and more riders who try 650b, the more and more 26" will fade away.
  • 2 0
 just rode a 650 today, it felt more like a 29er than a 26 to me when compared to my 26...definitely not convinced
  • 6 1
 Mountain man - there is no big wheel technology and choosing a certain wheel size is an average of certain rider physiology and certain terrains characteristics. Ultimately: riders preference. It's a fit issue, not technigical one like Vbrakes vs Disc brakes. Have you seen long stems and short bars disappearing in any way, even though it is obvious that as long as you don't live in the elbow scratching bush, wide bars are just better?
  • 38 1
 What was that that just rolled past? Oh it was the ball that Specialized dropped.
  • 5 0
 Pretty much explains itself, as far as I know specialized is trying to stay out of the 650b game, meh, probably just another statement by specialized, i'm guessing they will eventually create a 650b bike down the road.
  • 7 1
 Don't forget that Giant have their catalogues already to hit the dealers and they will have 650Bs. I've already ordered mine. In my area, Specialized will be way down on sales compared to Trek and Giant.
  • 10 0
 Any company will go 650b if that's what is selling!
  • 31 4
 So stoked on 650b!!! Problem is my 2010 remedy is feeling a bit outdated already... Wallet, prepare your anus.
  • 1 0
 Here's to hoping there are plenty of 26" wheeled bikes left around I can use for parts.
  • 24 2
 Top of the line will be like 9 grand with their house brand bontrager wheels, tires, bar, stem and seat. When are the two big brands (trek and specialized) going to learn that you can purchase kits from frame companies with good aftermarket products. Not sure about you guys but a strong stiff wheel set is a priority when I look at a bike. After having and riding Treks, bontrager is not it.
  • 5 3
 You could just buy the frame.
  • 4 6
 I completely agree about the " house " brand parts, but I must say the new Bontrager tires are pretty sweet.
  • 6 0
 I cant speak for bontrager but the "in house" specialized wheels are Roval which is essentially a rebranded dt swiss wheel, and most of the wheels that come on thier high end bike are actually a very quality wheel
  • 2 1
 I think that those new Rhythm wheels from Bontrager look to change that in a big way. Besides, most of those 'frame and kit' packages are usually much more expensive than the Trek and Spec bikes. Just my experience and a big reason why I chose my Remedy. And I have never regretted that decision.
  • 2 1
 Funny when I mentioned this about Giant I was slammed for it. Once you get above entry level with Giant, they are only a few hundred less then other makes but with a ton of in house parts.
  • 3 2
 The components may suck, but I second the tires. I've been running the G5 rear and G4 up front and it's hands down the best combo I've ever ridden for aggressive FR and AM riding.
  • 4 4
 Bontrager has some nice stuff in their line up....there might be some more bling bling component brands out there....
  • 5 0
 I completely agree with you my 2012 remedy9 is completely stock and I have no complaints about the bontrager parts. The wheels have had some serious abuse and are still like new dude
  • 2 3
 Trek makes awesome frames but Bontrager sucks across the board. I own a Slash and the Bontrager handlebars are the awkwardest bars I've ever rode, the rear wheel can't stay true for shit, and the tires sometimes slide out unpredictably.
  • 2 1
 Sorry riding the Bontrager Rhythm Pro Carbon handlebar on my slash and one of the nicest handlebars riden so war......
  • 1 0
 Handlebars are extremely personal. I'm glad your bars work for you but I wanted something with better angles, more rise, and wider.
  • 2 1
 Thats right there are some parts on a bike where you shoulld care about a brand take that what fits
  • 29 5
 Stop this madness!
  • 24 27
 I agree, all the pro 26" for life garbage has to stop!!! Glad you brought it up!!!
  • 12 8
 The feeble mind fears, what it does not understand.
  • 3 0
 :everybody gasps:
  • 20 13
 RANT!... i couldn't give a rats arse as to the the size of the wheels (within reason) i do however care that should i want to swap my 26" rims between current and future frames, the emergence of new 650b bikes going to limit my choice of 26" bikes all because people need to jump on the latest fad. this is mtb. its supposed to be a sport based on fun, not the fact that one wheel gives you a 0.756% advantage with rolling resistance. Smile
  • 12 17
flag dkidd (Jul 17, 2013 at 11:32) (Below Threshold)
 Why does this affect you then? (I assume you're still riding a 'klunker' from the late 80's.)
  • 8 9
 did you read the comment? (you shouldn't assume unless you have a solid basis to go by as you will most likely be wrong)
  • 12 10
 My logic: You want the sport to be free from mechanical advantages, and seem to have a distaste for technical advancements/modern technology. Thus I presume you are familiar with Klunkers, and would see the benefit therein.
  • 10 6
 never inferred that i wanted the sport to be free from mechanical advantages or that i have a distaste for technical advancements/modern technology. i simply can't see the reasoning behind change for change's sake. look at the enduro world series, have 650b bikes claimed 1st 2nd and 3rd at every race. nope 26" still get in on the action so they might well roll better but do they handle the whole trail any better?
  • 10 7
 Objectively they will handle many trail conditions better.
If you are looking for hard evidence in a race scenario, you have to wait a couple of years. Did you see 29'ers dominating the podiums in their first couple of years of mainstream popularity? No. Today however, it's relatively rare to see a 26" bike on the podium in an xc event.

I am just poking fun at your comment, and am certainly not seriously suggesting that you ride a rigid bike, only that you be a bit more open to embracing the technology and advancements that stem from those you already take for granted.
  • 8 3
 dkidd 650b is an old french wheel size, my dad used to have 650 wheels on his bike. So is it really an advancement...
  • 4 7
 Like personally i dont mind but there is just too much. Im fine with the 29ers, 26,24 now this 27.5 stuff and 650bb they should just keep it simple IMO
  • 5 1
 kranked350z.............27.5 = 650B....
  • 5 6
 @clixby, if you have to ask if this is an advancement over 26" or 29" wheeled trailbikes, this probably isn't the site for you.
  • 10 2
 Why can't people have fun on other sized wheels? Why do you seem to think that only a 26" wheel allows you to have fun?
  • 9 5
 And whilst everyones cocking around with wonky wheel sizes, 5 levers and dials on their bars for suspension, seatpost etc and worrying about sealing their tyres and making sure they have perfect torque on their carbon bars, stems, seatposts, not to mention the absoultly perfect vacuum bleed on their suspension. Myself and anybody that actually cares about having fun will be ripping round on 26" wheels with tubes in running nice simple tuned for the task shocks/forks grinning our tits off as we have for the past 10 years when no one gave a crap about all this stuff.

Some tech really makes a difference ie damping other stuff is just pure marketing tat.
  • 15 2
 Seriously, what is wrong with you god damn people? Why is it now apparently a fact that only people who ride 26" wheels have fun? So every other time you've ridden a bike that wasn't 26" you never had fun? I pity you guys. I absolutely pity you, because for some freakish reason, regardless of what wheel size I'm on, I have a lot of fun. I also don't let wheel sizes make me feel insecure or let them cause me to lash out.

You're being RIDICULOUS. It's a wheel size. The fact that so many of you are throwing temper tantrums about a wheel size and getting pissed is just absurd beyond all belief.

Bikes are fun. ALL BIKES, are fun. And the fact you guys are so hung up on one single wheel size shows you don't have an all encompassing passion for the sport of cycling be it DH, fixed gear, Road, DJ, whatever.... Which is a damn shame.

Matt Hunter said it best: "If you enjoy mountain biking, you can see the fun in every single one of the different ways of doing it."

If he's wrong, f*ck it, I'm wrong too and I don't care.
  • 6 5
 dude your totally missing the point of why some people are against 650b wheels, it's not because they don't like change, it's because lots of people see 11mm difference in wheel size for what it really is and that is a way to shift product.
marketeers and brand managers aren't stupid, they know 29ers don't really work beyond certain travel limitations but they love the idea of making existing products obsolete.

27" wheels are perfect for this, JUST big enough to make most existing components useless but not big enough to compromise handling.

remember it is much much harder to sell someone something they already have!

i bet if someone snuck into the WES pits at night and swapped all the 650b wheels for 26" none of the pro's would notice any difference whatsoever.

oh and back to the main story, they are trek's so crappy propriety shocks that are useless if you weigh more than an 8 yr old on a frame that is too light and flimsy using a suspension design stolen from dave weagle.

Sweet advertising budget though.. . .
  • 5 0
 "dude your totally missing the point of why some people"

No. No I'm not missing anything. I know some people don't like them who have actually put in time on them. Or some people like them for some trails but not others. Whatever their reasons, I don't care. More power to them and their personal choices.

So no, I'm not missing the point. I'm responding to the people who keep saying you can only have fun on a 26" wheeled bike and anyone who rides anything else can't have fun on it, or doesn't care about fun. That's bullshit. And anyone defending that idea is just sad.
  • 2 4
 @cyrix i have come to the conclusion that in future i should just not bother commenting as so many people can't read what i have posted without seeing things that are not there.

i assume that you are referring to this: "this is mtb. its supposed to be a sport based on fun, not the fact that one wheel gives you a 0.756% advantage with rolling resistance"
where do i say you can't have fun on a 650b wheeled bike.
for me the reason i will buy a bike is that it handles the terrain well and is enjoyable to ride. i am an ex road racer where every manufacturer tells you that this years bike is 2.5% stiffer, 3%lighter, 2% more aero and its all marketing bullshit. yes they make a difference to a tour rider where a second counts but to the likes of your average racer it won't make as much of a difference as just getting out and riding. iv'e tried treks top end road bike thats supposed to be the dogs bollocks but to me it just feels dead and no fun to ride. i have tried 29ers/700c, 26" and 650b and to be honest i cant tell much difference between 26" and 650b so i just see it as an unnecessary distraction from improving 26" bikes.
  • 2 4
 i mean when have you ever been riding down a trail thinking god this is so much fun except i could use a little less rolling resistance. the only thing thats slowing me down normally is my brakes not the size of my wheels.
  • 3 2
 I posted my reply for a simple reason, all the rich phat wallet 40 yr olds that think theyre cool buy into the latest and greatest, manufacturers then dont kick out the gear for people with older bikes, 26" has been the mainstay for years with no real gripes and tyre choice is huge, now your gonna see whats happening to forks. certain models will be specific to wheel sizes. If bontrager swicthes the xr4 to 27.5 only id be pissed as i love that tyre. does 27.5" really make a difference to 90% of people? no its just trail bling that acts as a cock extension.
  • 1 2
 Its simple, VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET!!!!! If people bought more new high end 26ers, the manufacturers would continue developing them. There are advancements in hub and spoke designs, as well as the carbon rim development. There are a lot of "marketing" strategies left for 26", but they just don't sell.
  • 3 1
 @jaydmf... you don't sound like you're having very much fun out there dude... why don't you try a 650 bike? If you don't think it's gonna make any difference, why not just go that way next season?
  • 3 4
 I have plenty of fun out there just im finding that the general attitude in MTB is not what it used to be its all about the latest fashion. go back 5 yrs ago people would have probably mentioned 27.5 and most people would say meh and carry on with 26". now all of a sudden theres massive fragmentation going on and the only thing i see it doing is making the choice of components a complete mess same as having 9/10/11 speed transition to 1 standard and leave it at that.
  • 8 0
 willie i have no idea what the market is like in canada but in the UK 26"wheeled bikes outsell 29ers by quite a margin and probably outsell 650b by at least a 100-1 (i have only ever seen 1 and that was dan athertons homebrew force at round 1 of the UK gravity enduro series), all that is going to change next year, not because customers are walking into shops and saying they want a tweener but because that is the only option they are going to be presented with.

the upcoming rise of tweeners is not going to be a choice it's going to be a lack of options. it's like opening a shop that only sells coke then saying no one likes pepsi because you haven't sold any.
  • 5 1
 > I have plenty of fun out there just im finding that the general attitude in MTB is not what it used to be

You're absolutely right. The General attitude, according to the people on this website, is that anything other than 26" is absolute shit and just a ploy to steal money from us.

I pretty much NEVER see anyone who rides 650b of a niner going around freaking out about 26" wheels. Know why? THEY DON'T CARE WHAT WHEELS YOU RIDE ON. They just want to ride their bikes. Anyone else notice that? They don't call you gay for riding a 26" wheel, they don't say you're a traitor, they just honestly don't give a shit about what wheel size you ride.

Funny how it's the the 26er crowd who allegedly are the people "having fun" and "not caring" about bike advancements or whatever, yet it's practically ONLY them throwing a fit and causing such a shit storm.

If you do this, you're a hypocrite, and you should really just love all bikes regardless of drive train, wheel size, bar width, whatever.

I like bikes. Yes, bikes. I like all bikes. As long as I'm on it, I don't care what kind of bike it is. I'll be having fun and I won't be sitting on pinkbike flipping out over what someone else rides. I really just don't get all of this anger and childish name calling over a wheel size.

No wonder this community is a laughing stock in the mtb world. Shame too, because the site puts out great content.
  • 2 2
 jesus christ you really don't get our points at all. i'm not even going to try and show you how flawed your reasoning is.
  • 3 1
 "the upcoming rise of tweeners is not going to be a choice it's going to be a lack of options. it's like opening a shop that only sells coke then saying no one likes pepsi because you haven't sold any."

More like you saying I don't sell Pepsi because it sucks and by the way I haven't actually tried it, but read it sucks.
  • 2 1
 I'd really like to know how many of the above commenters have actually spent good time dialling in and thoroughly testing a 650 bike.
Having spent a ton of time on 26, 29, and now 650 platforms, I can honestly say I'm happiest on 650. Took a while to dial it in, but it's great now.
Not saying everyone is gonna have the same experience, just that maybe shit-talking it without trying it is a bit presumptuous. (he says speaking to a site full of keyboard warriors)
  • 2 0
 @originaltwotone, you and most of the new fad evangelists are totally missing my point, i'm not saying tweeners suck at all, in fact they are so close to 26" wheels in ride characteristics and evens looks as to make no difference.

next year when 75% + of new models of trail bike are sporting 27" wheels and new bike sales of tweeners could possibly overtake 26" the manufacturers will be claiming its because they are better, it's what the customers asked for etc. but the reality is its purely sales driven, if trek had updated the models above with 26" wheels fewer people would buy one, stick the latest buzzword technology on there and suddenly everyone wants to sell their perfectly good existing bike because it's not fashionable and at the end of the day mountain biking is a fashion driven sport/hobby. banshee and ibis have got the right idea making frames that are switchble between the 2 almost identical smaller wheel sizes.
  • 2 0
 We're only getting anoyed because the impending lack of components and hefty costs to get new gear because people follow a fashion. If everyone thought it was cool to wear shoes 2 sizes too big and you couldnt buy shoes that fit properly because the manufacturers followed the trends and stopped making your fav shoes in your size how annoyed would you be?
  • 1 0
 i'm already pissed off with clothing manufacturers. why are all jeans made to have really f*cking tight legs now? i understand that skinny jeans are designed to fit girly leg men but id expect standard fit to fit over my (average for a cyclist) thighs.
  • 3 0
 But it isn't just a fad, or marketing, or a money grab......... Sighhhhhhhhhhh.....................Frown Frown Frown
  • 1 0
 what is it then? what was the sudden epiphany that made all the manufacturers decide that current wheels were just under 4% too small?
did lots of team riders start asking their mechanics for wheels with an extra inch of diameter, i doubt it very much.

more likely a suit of some sort was looking at wheel sizes on wikipedia and thought "hey 650B that sounds sexy, i'm going to pitch that one at our next brainstorming session"
  • 2 0
 b45her "in fact they are so close to 26" wheels in ride characteristics and evens looks as to make no difference"
Simple question, have you ridden one?
I'm guessing no, so go try one then come in here and tell me you feel no different.
Sorry the 26 riders are feeling threatened, but you can't expect any industry to simple stay stagnant to appease a small group of hold outs.
  • 2 0
 It started with Kirk Pacenti, noting he liked some features of 26ers, and some features of 29ers, and saw that the middle ground could be the best of both worlds. He made a few, people rode them and REALLY liked them, so more people built them. It went this way for the past 5+ years, and the manufacturers were looking at some perceived niche market bikes, much like steel rigid bikes, fat bikes, but this was a REVELATION!!!! Its not a niche product. In 2 short years, this went from some mechanically adept guys modifying or custom building, to factory made. It is that good.
  • 2 2
 i have ridden a 650b actually and probably in the best head to head way, a liteville 301 mk11 which is designed to run as either a 26" or a 27" inch bike. did quite a few loops of an 8 mile demo circuit over 2 days and couldn't have told you which one was which without seeing 650b on the tyres, i have nothing against it as a size it's certainly preferable to full clown bikes which are just horrible to ride. what irks me is the advertisers and brands trying to play us for fools by telling us they are faster and the claims that the almost unilateral shift to 650b for 2014 is customer driven when in reality it is totally industry driven.
  • 2 0
 well b45her, you don't speak for all customers.

When I first read about 650B I decided to try and convert my Felt but it would fit. When it was time for a new bike I rode a Jamis 650B and I could defiantly tell the difference, just didn't like the bike as a whole. Had there been more choice back then I would have never ended up on a 29er.

Now that there are finally a ton of choices I'm going back down to 650B. So I say it is customer driven. Who's right?
  • 1 0
 I agree wholeheartedly. I spent hours searching for components that were 650b compatible over the past several years. I can now just go to a LBS, if there was one that didn't require a secret handshake to be served. Well, one problem at a time.
  • 12 1
 Pretty bummed about the resale value of my 2013 26er.
  • 3 0
 Me too!!! Bottom line, something said to me that this was going to happen
  • 7 0
 From the comments there is still a market for 26" bikes - you'll be able to charge a premium!!
  • 12 5
 Just a marketing skeem for you to go out and spend your money .. It's all a mindset/game 650b are that much better because if it was they would have thought about it sooner 26ers is where it's at .. What's next 28 inch wheels ? 26ers started mtb and 26ers are going to keep it moving forward at least that my opinion
  • 9 4
 Really 24" wheels started mountain biking. And I'm guessing (I can't say for certain, I wasn't riding then) that 26" wheels had resistance when they first hit the scene. And yet now they are the norm. History repeats itself....
  • 7 2
 Source, please, @Gooldylocks.
  • 11 3
 You might want to learn a little history of the sport you love. The ONLY reason you're riding a 26 right now is because at the beginning it was cheaper to import a 26 inch tire vs. a 650B tire. Maybe actually try riding one instead commenting out of ignorance cause it's the cool thing to bash right now.
  • 4 3
 Mountain bikes started with 26" wheels. They put 24" wheels on the back only to slacken the head angle, then figured it is better to change the frame geo. My first mountain bike was in the early to mid 80s, 26" wheels and full ridgid frame and forks.
  • 3 5
 They started with 700C, 650B and 27" touring wheels actually. They only put 26" wheels on at all because it was a crutch size due to a lack of tires in what they preferred.
  • 1 0
 TheOriginalTwoTone, no ones bashing 650b wheels. That statement keep getting regurgitated over and over. I'm sorry that you don't recognize it as the marketing coup that it is, and you are not alone. There has been plenty of opportunity for 650b wheels and they are very much welcomed. In any normal situation or market testing, 650b would have been introduced slowly to gage what the demand would be. That demand did not develop overnight, but Enduro racing did, especial here in the US where it's not the ultra DH terrain like everywhere in Europe . Think of all the companies that did not jump on the 29er wagon and didn't make money. Trek and Cannondale were the only big boys that maximized profits and 3 or 4 other small companies. Then add in the fact those companies or any company for that matter could not sell a 29er in Europe to save their life. thats why Trek is releasing there 650b wheels there first. So people think Trek is cutting their own throat, I disagree, they have made their money off 29er wheels more so than anyone else. So with the Enduro scene at big as it is, why not? That's a huge market to sell to.
Contrary to popular belief bike tech is not going to get much better without putting motor on the bike. The advances of late are just things that can be spun by marketing and not significant, 142mm spacing, taped HT, and iscg05. And the list could go into components, but I'm tire, I'd rather figure out which 650b I'm going to have to buy since my five favorite bike companies don't have a 26in AM bike in their lineup.
  • 2 1
 Maybe you should reread rapit2 as that was where my comment was directed.
Calling something a marketing scheme just to get more money surely isn't a compliment is it?
Again calling it a mind game- another compliment I missed?
Finally I was pointing out that they did think of 650B sooner and did think it was that much better; money plain and simple is what drove the decision to start mountain biking with 26 inch wheels, not what was best. I was trying to help him stop looking so ignorant.
  • 2 1
 @rapit: If so many people wanted 26" bikes, refused to buy 650b and 29ers (should be very little sales based on the posts here as EVERYONE wants 26".) then the other sizes will go away. I don't understand why the manufacturers are so stupid, and don't get basic economics. They must be losing money with all of the lost sales and leftover stock of large wheel bicycles. Wink
  • 2 0
 Take a look at the 2014 line ups of almost every one of the bigger brands in the european market for next year and there are very very few 26" wheeled bikes in the 5-6" trail/AM style, it's kind of difficult for customers to buy a product that isn't offered. this is despite 650 sales in europe to this point being almost non existant

lapierre have gone 650
cube have gone 650
santa cruz have gone 650
trek have now gone 650
YT industries have gone 650
canyon are going 650
scott have gone 650

i'm hard pressed to think of a new 26" model for next year that isn't a new stickers and a different colour effort.
  • 1 0
 Don't buy them, and the manufacturers will stop producing them. There have been too many left over 26ers for the manufacturers to continue producing them.
  • 6 0
 NIce looking bikes, certainly harder to tell the wheel size on just looking as opposed to 29`ers

This wheel debate certainly drags on, with repeated arguments, hysteria, ignorance and all that Jazz all the time - i would love PinkBike to have some kind of identifier next tom users name which states their primary riding discipline (downhill, AM, AC, Trail etc) and this may put into context the comments made about each wheel size debate

At the end of the day, from what i see on all these press releases, its all about the big money high earner end of the market, i see it all the time in the LBS, guys coming in and getting shown around all the shiney new bikes, either first timer s or upgrades - most of these are not interested in building and messing with bikes, they just want one, the bigger and shinier the better

as noted by many my olcal LBS is slowly stocking mainly 29`ers in store, most being Specialized as this is their main brand and this is why Specialized are doing what they are doing with their off-the-shelf bikes, they know their market and know they have many high street outlets so they win

anyway, lioke many i am sure i have limited budget and am small in stature so 26 on a 16" frame is more than adequate for me and i aint buying a new full bike any-time soon - i am just happy that i can whoop many shiny shiny riders on my budget machine, so this wheel debate is really not relevant to me which voids all the above Wink
  • 1 0
 Well said.
  • 1 1
 If you can't afford a new bike, why would a manufacturer make one for you? I REALLY don't get the mentality of this.
  • 2 0
 right back at ya Willie1, not sure what you are reading into it - i would just ignore it if i were you
  • 1 0
 yet again you are a very silly willie...
  • 7 1
 Im a DHer and I've ridden a 27.5" bike and they are good. Trust me, if no one told you, you might not even you're on a bigger wheel size.

This wheel size makes total sense to me and its good to see some experimentation going on with wheels. That said, 29ers make no sense to me at all. They ride like pigs.

26" & 27.5 FTW
  • 2 2
 29er clown wheels are dead and should have never claimed in any place in FR or AM... keep it for the lycra brigade
  • 4 1
 Why riding a 27.5" bike if you can't see the difference? useless.
  • 2 0
 my point exactly faul, no one can tell the damn difference, it's change for the sake of profiteering not performance.
  • 1 1
 Some people can some people can't. I test rode one and really can't believe people can't tell the difference. It was very noticeable on the first climb and downhill on my daily trails. b45her at least if you had actually ridden one, one could respect your opinion, but bashing something you haven't even tried is completely juvenile.
  • 6 0
 Based on the comments it sounds like most people are predicting the death of 26" wheels. Is this the death knell? In 5 years will my new bike be limited to either 650 or 29? I am not worried. They certainly seem very capable, and in the mean time I can still find parts for my 97 Honda Odyssey, so I will probably be alright for 26er parts.
  • 1 0
 Very reasonable response.
  • 1 0
 uh oh. Too many of those and I get kicked off the site. . .
  • 8 0
 i think there is a ton of people who saw this coming it was just a matter of timee
  • 5 0
 One thing I did notice is given all these bikes are running XX1 and XO1 I hope Trek and other big manufactures have the foresight to use right hand reverb remotes mounted under the front (left) brake lever instead of the conventional method in the picture. It works so much better under the bar.
  • 1 0
 Or ditch the whole 1x11 shenanigan. I always run out of gears on long rides. When telling my LBS about this they recommended a smaller chain ring so I went to a 32T, then I lost my high speed gearing. With 1x11 there's always a sacrifice that I've never had to deal with on my trusty ol' 2x10.
  • 5 0
 The part that sucks is I switch forks, tires, wheels, etc between different bikes when stuff breaks or I ride something different. If I wanna throw my Front wheel from my DH bike on my AM bike, they need to be the same size. That's the bummer about have bikes with different sized wheels or different gearing...
  • 1 7
flag Willie1 (Jul 18, 2013 at 8:05) (Below Threshold)
 I can't use my old v-brake specific forks and wheels anymore either. Things change in 5 year cycles.
  • 2 0
 Willie1, what the f*ck is the point of your comment? That's why I never comment on these forums. Always some smart ass f*ckah on these forums trying to pick apart anything you have to say. You know what fag, go buy all new bikes, wheels etc and have fun. Douche...
  • 4 0
 I have nothing against 650b and there's certainly a market for them, but please don't let 26" wheels go extinct. There is still a huge market for them and because "different riders tackle the same trail in their own way" some people will always want 26" wheels. How the hell is giving the Slash 650b wheels a "small wheel treatment" when the wheel size increased between model years? Enduro racing is radically changing all mountain bikes, and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing yet.
  • 1 4
 The huge market isn't spending their money on new products. Businesses are in business to sell. If something doesn't sell, it gets replaced with something that will. 5 years ago, no one though a DH bike could be made from carbon. Now almost all new releases have a carbon version. Not many broken frames either. Steel is just as good as aluminum and carbon, with its own set of strengths and weaknesses, but the consumer voted with their wallet. When is the last time you saw a steel DH bike?
  • 1 0
 willie1 you keep spouting that people aren't buying 26" bikes, where are you getting this information? of the 3 local shops i visit every one of them tells me that 26" bikes are still the biggest sellers by a massive margin, 29ers sell well at entry level but poorly higher up the ranges and 650b bike sales are 2 yes 2 bikes from 3 shops in a whole product year (both cube stereo's)

next years bikes from all but 1 of the brands these shops stock are almost exclusively 650b what part of brands forcing the popularity of a particular standard through lack of alternatives do you find it so hard to understand?

it's the bike equivalent of the simpsons episode where all the little girls rush to the shops to buy the latest malibu stacy doll just because it comes with a new hat.

In your reply to LTmtb you pretty much say that tweeners are a cynical ploy to push sales yet in most of your other replies to people you are preaching about how much of a life changing experience riding them is.
  • 1 2
 I don't think you read the above post.

In your community 26ers might sell better. I'm sure they do in Vancouver as well, but the general sales trend is strongly toward larger wheels. Based on your logic, if you lived in a BMX community, you would question why anyone would want anything other than 20" wheels. There is a world outside your world you might not be aware of.

BTW, the onus is on the 26" fans to prove they are wanted, with their wallets, not a post on a forum looking like a fool who doesn't understand basic business principles. There is no conspiracy. None of the manufacturers want those pesky leftover 26" wheeled bikes and lose out on sales to what has basically been proven to be a superior product. V-brakes went away. Cable discs went away. Friction shifters went away. 26" wheels went away. Its how it works.
  • 2 0
 I don't think the consumer is driving the 650b trend. At least in my area, 29ers are what the XC racers ride and everyone else rolls around on 26 inch bikes. I rarely see bikes with 650b wheels on the trail. However, I expect to see more big wheeled bikes now that people buying new bikes have less 26 opportunities.
  • 1 2
 You can think what you like. 29ers outsell 26ers in almost every market already. Its a dying breed. There is no real disadvantage to 650b, compared to 26", a noted benefit, and the manufacturers noted the VERY strong sales of the smaller manufacturers who had 650b products, selling them, and losing out because they are still selling 26" wheels. Its rare to see 650b bikes, but the limited 650b production from last year basically sold out, and we are waiting for the 2014s while 26" models gather dust in the showrooms.
  • 2 0
 where the hell are all these 650b bikes then? i can honestly swear that i have only ever seen 1 in the flesh and that was dan athertons experimental jobbie.
  • 1 1
 They are mostly 2014 models. I have seen quite a few 650b's in my area.
  • 2 0
 if they are all 2014 models how are they outselling 26" bikes? i'm starting to believe you are totally brain washed.

from 2014 there is a very strong possibility that more 27" than 26" wheeled bikes will be sold in the mid travel range that is a given considering that very few 2014 model year bikes are being made with 26" wheels.

but for this year and every year since the inception of MTB 26" bikes will have sold more units, if you think otherwise you are a fool
  • 1 1
 I'm sorry. You are just nor smart enough to understand., I'm done here.
  • 1 0
 ah, no intelligent reply so you hurl insults and run away.

i've red lots of your comments on this thread and you often totally contradict yourself, the general trend seems to be that you have bought lots of 650b bits so anyone who hasn't is inferior to you in some way. and all this from a person who's profile openly states they have been mountain biking a couple of years.

your nothing but an MTB fashionista that must jump on the latest trend, kind of like the audi driving IT consultants from surrey that wobble around the welsh hills every weekend on their ellsworths and mojo's.

is this you???

www.youtube.com/watch?v=feQyJeJgIw8
  • 1 0
 Smile

Many manufacturers are reporting sales 7:1 for 29er over 26er. I'm not sure what you are going on about. Over the past year, I had a hard time even getting new tires for 650b, as everything was sold out for most of the year. Production ramped up for this year. b45her: please post the sales numbers you are going on about. Maybe one of the manufacturers will hire you because their market analysis people are obviously incompetent?
  • 1 0
 dude your basing the entire world of bicycling on what the 'murican's do. i can assure you that 29ers are still pretty niche outside of the xc race scene in the UK and to a slightly lesser extent europe, this is despite the MTB media here pushing them pretty damn hard for the last few years. where are the sources for your figures, mine are based on what shops are telling me they're selling and what i see out and about while riding,again if all these people are buying 29ers and 650b bikes they must be using them to hang clothes on because they certainly aren't out in the hills.
  • 1 0
 and just so you know, sales figures for 29ers are regularly enhanced by adding touring bikes and hybrids in there. it's just more marketing and sales bull to make them more desirable. i look forward to seeing all your posts rubbishing 650b wheels in about 18 months when some other standard becomes the must have buzzword.
  • 1 0
 Keep convincing yourself. Everyone else knows what is really happening. You can keep living in your own little imaginary world. Just as thought, you have no evidence to back up your claims, which contradict every educated person in this scene. LOL!!!!!
  • 1 0
 where is your evidence? all you have done is pull numbers out of thin air and by everyone else i suspect you mean yourself and deeelight. if you read through the comments i think you will find yourself a bit a minority.
  • 1 0
 There are a group of maybe 20 people who are "26" for life!!" based on the posts here, on this site. Hardly the target group for the manufacturers. The evidence is in the showrooms, and product releases, based on sales, and projections, not a few kids who are afraid of change. THIS IS SO SIMPLE!!!!: If people don't buy a product, the manufacturers stop making them. I really don't understand why this is hard for you to grasp.
  • 1 0
 that is the part you are failing to grasp, the product releases aren't based on sales, they are based on an easy way to sell people something they already have in a thinly disguised package.

take the trek bikes here, if trek had released lest years bike with a new colour it's no big deal, release last years bike with slightly bigger wheels and it's suddenly the second coming.

dito the santa cruz bronson which is just a slightly stretched LTc, solo slightly stretched TRc etc.

its like the movie inception, the industry plants a seed that they are faster, better etc. and before too long lots of people believe it, couple that with taking away any real alternatives and hey presto it's "customer demand"

bike tech pretty much stagnated abut 5-6 years ago, wheel sizes are an easy way to spark interest and and empty wallets. it all boils down to the old saying that it's harder to sell someone something they already have, in the case of 650b they are selliing us what we already have only with sparkles on.
  • 2 0
 What you are not getting, is retrogrouches said the same thing with aluminum frames, carbon frames, disc brakes, trigger shifters, suspension etc. Of course the old products sold better than an unreleased product, but the companies stay in business selling things. Its not a conspiracy. They have to sell to stay in business. If they make bad predictions of what will sell, they go out of business. As someone who rides 650b, and knows first hand it isn't a gimmick, no matter how much you want to believe it is, the manufacturers are pretty safe in knowing it will sell well, and rejuvenate the smaller wheel market. 26" bikes drop in sales each year and 29ers continue to sell. That is the fact of the situation. As I mentioned in a previous post, the demand for 650b products this past year far exceeded the supply. The entire past year, the supply of rims and tires was sold out. I even tried to order through the LBS, and they said the distributors were sold out. I make custom frames, and over the past 2 years, I have only seen one 26" custom frame made on the site I frequent. 650b is the most ordered custom, exceeding 29ers even. The manufacturers know this, and are responding in an intelligent way. Yes, part of this is marketing, but look at your bike. Which components have NOT been marketing? They all are, or they wouldn't be on your bike.
  • 3 0
 Who are you willie1,??? why do you have so much hate on people who have a different view than you??? It is clearly obvious that you are a person with a tunnelled vision mentality. Whether this is a good or bad thing, in my eyes just loosen up a little. In the end nobody is ever going to be correct about the perfect wheel size As the conditions of trails and riding styles Re always changing.

I have a really good suggestion for you, go for a ride! Take out your ibis mojo thing ma bob and clear your mind, open up your thoughts! Don't waste your entire life on pinkbike ranting at people who just express their opinion.

If you have been out for a ride, go for a long one.
  • 1 2
 As I noted before, you are just a kid who has little experience with the technological changes that have happened since I started cycling in the early 90's. It seems that the closed minded people are the ones who promote stasis, rather than accepting advancements. Who was just banned for trolling, then opened a new account to PM me an insult? I'm the one who is hating? My advice to you is accept there are many things you don't know, and will learn as you mature. I have been cycling for longer than you have been alive, and have seen the rejection of EVERY new advancement bu a segment of the cycling community. Challenging ignorance is not hating. What you did is hating.
  • 2 0
 Awkward cause I'm Hamdawg's friend. So be quiet you fin hater and go for that ride.
  • 1 0
 *fun
  • 1 0
 I really don't think age does matter on wheel size. However, yes it can be applied to passing trends and all (as Willie1 is so much wiser in this department). But this is quarrel is towards 26 vs. 650B and i have ridden and own both i know "first hand it isn't a gimmick". Just get over it.... you really need to conjure up a new reason for why i know nothing, other than age.
  • 1 1
 Did you know that a male's brain isn't fully developed until about 25 years old? Age does matter LOL!! Smile Its not a new reason, its the first reason I gave you, way back when you started trolling me.
  • 1 0
 Yours will never develop!
  • 1 1
 Oh No!! A kid from the other side of the world thinks I'm no fun, and have brain damage!!!! How will I ever be OK again???? Wink
  • 1 0
 Oh no an obnoxious middle aged, brain dead, fun hater will NEVER be okay again. What a shame.
  • 1 0
 Keep hating and trolling.
  • 1 0
 where are all these 650b wonder bikes you claim to own willie? your profile pics seem full of antiquated crap and walmart bikes.
  • 1 0
 You mean the old buy/sell stuff?
  • 1 0
 Gone on that ride yet Willie1?
  • 5 2
 I for one think the Slash is a perfect platform for the 650b wheel set. It doesn't pedal as well as the 29er, and doesn't corner as well as the 26er, but does better at both than the other. I think Enduro is where 650b is going to find its niche. The remedy is probably better as a 29er and the session a 26. I am currently running a GT Sanction, and that Slash 650b will probably be my replacement when my current sled breaks.
  • 17 5
 oh crap! the marketers have brainwashed this one..
  • 1 0
 Ok, looking for used 26" slash frame here... And remember is OLD already so I'll get a bargain hehe
  • 6 0
 Specialized better produce a gazillion Enduro 29s if intends to hold off the 27.5 market
  • 5 2
 Still pretty stoked riding my 26er bikes, and frequently see more and more people riding the same trails with more speed and less skill, because big wheels enable the "no finesse required, total plow biking" method that people adopt then say "the bike makes me so much faster!". The standard approach appears to be trending more towards hang on for dear life and just go faster cause the wheels roll over shit better. Lots of strong riders do rally the piss outa big wheeled bikes these days pumping and gapping big lines, but the darn big wheels allow people to let trail work them rather than work the trail... But oh well, changing times. At least 650b bikes aren't effing hideous like 29ers.
  • 5 4
 what I read "I'm not going slow, I'm just taking the time to finesse the trail!" I'll use that one next time I'm riding with a better rider!
  • 2 0
 hehe, that'd be funny for sure Smile Seems you understand that the point is when a trail is properly finessed/worked by the rider they can flippin' fly no matter what wheel size...
  • 3 0
 It's clear that many, if not all of the 'anti-650b' comments are from people who have not really ridden one (similar to how in the same breath, they down 29ers). I have found my 650b Sight to be as playful and fun as my 26er Truax was, yet still retains alot of climbing traction and speed of my 29er.

At the end of the day, I think it's more weight that makes a bike a better ride than it is wheel size, but when you can have 650b bikes the same weight as a 26er, with the same descending characteristics, yet some of the climbing benefits of a 29er... why wouldn't you go 650b?

Oh yeah, I know why, because you remain naive to the fact that this is the way the industry is going... get over it and just have fun riding your bike, whether it's 26 or 650b, just don't bitch and complain in 5 years when you have troubles finding a 26" tire that you really want... the writing is clearly on the wall.
  • 6 0
 Hi Mike,
I have never ridden a 650Bm or a 29er, only 26. Naive? You are making some call there Sir. We all know which way the industry is going, and we all know why. We also all know that not giving consumers the choice in the future makes great marketing sense since it essentially leaves us with the solitary choice you identify: join the bandwagon / industry as it rolls forward or get left behind.

Only there is just one thing, and it troubles me. In fact I'd go as far as to say that I don't like it. I can stand and look at my very small workshop corner in my place. It has a significant number of frames and parts I have amassed over the years. A fantastic set of U-turn Pikes that have seen thousands of kms, similar Halo rims, a boxxer WC I managed to pick up for an absolute steal in 2009. not to mention a couple of great steel HT frames and a Domain that has been around and seen all kinds. I had to spend a great deal of time and effort getting those at reasonable prices / not break the bank. Many are second hand that I fixed up / built up with enthusiasm, love. care and attention. However, I have a young family now and the time to buy shiny new 650b bits s not now, maybe never.

So it saddens me that I may have trouble finding tyres in 5 years time. Those frames, forks, rims... all of them are worth more surely than being consigned to a dusty corner because some marketing group decided their time had come.

In fact, it saddens me enough to bitch about it, now and in 5 years time.

Naive? No way.
About to be right royally shafted by the bike industry and know it? Possibly.
  • 6 0
 I agree. I'm pretty gutted that when I want a new bike I'm going to have to fork out for a whole new setup instead of just upgrading a frame or whatever I need. From what I've heard (settle down I know it's only hearsay) 650b rides similar enough to a 26" for the average rider like myself not to notice too much and definitely not to care enough to up and buy a whole new ride. So these big companies are basically forcing the issue - "we are making your perfectly good bicycle and its associated bits obsolete so you have to spend all your money on a new, pretty much identical, (but not quite enough for any of your parts to match) very expensive perfectly good bicycle"....
  • 2 2
 The big companies are not forcing the issue... they are following the smaller companies who have been making 27.5s for a while now. The people at Trek are smart enough to realize that they had better make 27.5 bikes or they will lose market share... as for Specialized, they are off the back getting rid of all their 26ers and pushing 29ers. What the market "wants" is what the bike industry makes.
(If it was up to me we would go back to 8-speed drivetrains and heavy, low maintenance forks.) Smile
  • 5 0
 Ha the 'market' wants what it sees on the internet, which nine times out of ten is what companies tell you you need - which in turn is what they want you to buy. Not making bikes in 26" is absolutely forcing the issue - if I don't have a choice then I'm pretty sure that constitutes being forced. And equating this change to other 'advances in technology' is not quite the same. I can slap a new fork or shock or ridiculously overpriced/hyped eleven speed drivetrain onto any bike. However changing a wheelsize ensures that my frame, shock, fork and wheelset etc are no longer compatible.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti new stuff - 650b is cool, so are 29ers if that's your cup of tea. I just think it sucks that these companies look like they're setting up to phase out a whole genre of their product simply to ensure people like me have to spend a whole bunch of money just to continue doing what we would have done anyway - ride our bikes.
  • 6 2
 absolute bullshit, no one asked for slightly bigger wheels, 650b wheels have been around for over 100 years, why did they only become so awesome this past year or so? the bike manufacturers are absolutely forcing the issue, they have seen a very easy way to sell lots of new bits with minimal extra R&D costs.
how much research do you think it takes to move a rear drop out 10mm?

and that orange and black monstrosity wouldn't look out of place next to the baked beans in a supermarket.
  • 1 0
 the fact that people are getting so bent out of shape over it just reinforces the point...
  • 6 1
 People HERE... on this microscopic website that speaks for a minority of the bicycle consumer market are getting bent out of shape... people out in the wider world, not so much. I prefer to live my life in the real world, not the pinkbike fantasy world.
  • 1 1
 Run it past us why you're throwing your two cents in on said microscopic website then....? Where else can you get bent out of shape other than a website which showcases 'first looks' at products? Your LBS...?
  • 4 1
 It's true Deeeight, outside of pinkbike, no one really gives a shit. People just ride their bikes, have fun, and experiment with new things, and then decide if they like them or not, instead of the typical pinkbike way, which is hate everything, and have an opinion on it without having even tried it. Plus, it's fun to stir the pot here, because people do get so bent out of shape and it's fun to see their reactions.
  • 2 1
 Another 26" fan boy talking out his ass no doubt. Go do some 650b research in the mtbr 650 forum before spewing a bunch of BS. I'm not gonna waste my time correcting all your miss information.

Have to disagree with your silly color comment as well and I'm betting most would also. Guess you'll never own a KTM dirtbike (or bicycle) either. Go see how well those sell with a similar color combo.
  • 3 0
 Deeight Sir, you are someone who obviously has a lot if experience in the world of MTBs; having read and seen many of your comments it should be obvious to people that you have knowledge of what you are talking about. However, often you are dismissive in tour tone as if your experience both personal and professional, be absolute. That is unfortunate, because it means you may miss something. Here in Japan for example, there is a general reluctance from established members of the MTB community towards 650B for many of the genuine and valid reasons that people here on PB put forward. PB provides a way for people to express those opinions. They are valid. They are genuine. For that reason and that reason alone, they deserve to be heard, and to be given the respect of relevancy, even if they go against the conclusions you have drawn. Have a good weekend Sir and enjoy.
  • 2 0
 Orientdave, I can really appreciate where you're coming from, but the naivety I was speaking to, and I am sure the frustration that you might read out of deeeight's comments, are largely based around the people who criticize and degrade something (ie: 650b's or 29ers), yet have not even thrown a leg over one, let alone ridden one on a trail. If you have had some actual riding time (and I am sorry, a 15 minute loop, let alone a ride around the block hardly qualifies as riding time), and can honestly sit back and say "I will never buy one because....", then that is a valid and appreciated opinion.

Personally, I come to read the comments because occasionally... very occasionally, you'll have a rep, or someone directly involved with the industry mention details not in the article, or you'll even have someone from the public (ie: non-industry person) make a good point about technology or something related. But, it gets extremely tiring when in order to get to that comment, I have to sift through 140 other comments of people bitching about how much a 650b or 29er sucks when it is very clear, extremely so, that they have never even actually ridden one (and again, riding your buddy's for 10 minutes doesn't really count). It just gets a little frustrating because somewhere in all those comments there is some valid and worthwhile information...
  • 2 0
 An equally good point. However none of us on this little micro-thread were ranting about being anti 650b/technology/fads. More that it is disappointing that the relatively adequate technology which we (us who cant afford a complete change of shiny new bike) are using is going to be thrown by the wayside for no real reason (other than the obvious money driven one).
  • 9 4
 It seems to me that mtb perfection peaked a couple of years ago. Its all down hill from here.
  • 22 0
 I hope its downhill. My bike weighs like 42 pounds
  • 2 0
 lol you just made my day
  • 2 0
 650b is an even bigger swizz than tapered steerers, but I still want one. Bikes flex more around the stanchion/slider interface on the fork than the headtube, but every f*cker bought that myth. No doubt everyone will now buy in to the 650b myth too. But I suppose bikes improve each year and this is just evolution in action.
  • 2 4
 ?????????????
  • 2 0
 I bought the 2013 slash 8 in March and there's no way I'm going to run out and buy the 650b. I have friend who works for Trek and they stocked up on the Slash 3 different times and they sold out so fast this spring and summer. So don't tell me there's no one out there that wants a 26 all mountain bike. I might get a 650b someday, but it won't be until a run my new bike into the ground!
  • 5 2
 Long live 26". Even if the end user still wants it, if the manufacturers kill it off, it shall die. Regardless, I'm excited to see & hear more about this bike.
  • 7 4
 There are only a handful of end users still wanting 26" bikes. If people bought more 26ers, and fewer 29ers, then there would still be 26ers.
  • 5 0
 They make 27" and 29", but keep 26", i'ts good for the choice!
  • 2 0
 If they do a carbon slash 9 with 650b I may be in the market for a new bike....it'd have to be that dope green color scheme like the 2012s though.......and I might have to sell my truck to afford it.....
  • 1 0
 Trek finally listened to me! It was only a matter of time before they decided to go 650b. I can finally pick up a set of Bonty XR4s in 650b! Yahoo! I've performed my own real world comparison between all three platforms 26, 27.5 and 29er with Strava times as objective evidence. 29ers are still faster on the climbs and non-technical DH. 650b is faster than a 26er on the climbs almost even on the DH technical compared to a 26er. 26ers are slower than both on the climbs but better at technical on the DH than both. 650 is the funnest to ride IMO.
  • 1 0
 650b wheels, 26" wheels, 26" up front 24" rear, 24" cruisers, 20's. i got 99 wheel sizes and 26 aint one, oh wait this article was about the new slash right, not just another article about wheel sizes. well i was sitting around with friends and we said screw this wheel size thing we are riding 26" till we cant ride any more. i was in the market for a new bike not finding one i liked to ride, i demo the slash and SOB i mean Fing SOB, let me say i ate my words i loved the 27.5 slash. now my new bike is on its way. SLASH 8 here soon, only the 8 because the 15.5 was a hard find, i got the last 15.5 trek had in stock.
i wonder whats next for the slash since they sold very nicely. The demo rep told me they are bringing out 4 models next time around, one specked higher than the 9. Maybe that means a carbon slash coming soon since the competition and the remedy offer carbon bikes.
  • 7 4
 Trek is stepping it up, stoked to see one of the big 3 dropping into the 650b market with their flagship models.
  • 5 4
 Giant is as well with a whole bunch of 650B bikes both FS and hard tail.

Big S is gonna take a beating in sales without a 650B bike. It'll happen eventually because they will want a piece of that pie but hey maybe all the 26" diehards will flock to the big S so they can maintain their (mistaken) position on the 650 wheel size.

Both of these new Treks are sweet looking bikes. Their new 29'ers also. That KTM colored Slash is the nuts!
  • 7 0
 I remember when Sinyard said "we'll never build 29ers".
  • 3 0
 26" is destined to fade out!!!! It has been planned out for longer then you think even Spec.
  • 1 0
 Hmmm, I though Devinci as soon as I saw that slash. But looks sick anyway and will probably ride a treat.
  • 4 0
 Maybe this will kick a used slash down into my price range.....
  • 3 2
 Trek's just made the biggest me too,me too move ever. At this rate its a few select brand will be left that will be earning loads ££$$€€ making 26in bike from the people that don't believe the hype.
  • 3 6
 Yeah....ummmm, no.
  • 4 0
 It's not what you ride, but how you ride that matters.
  • 1 1
 Its about who spends the money for the manufacturers.
  • 1 0
 Willie, you clearly have your priorities out of whack if you think about supply and demand and bikes as buisness investments when you're riding.
  • 3 0
 A 650B with a 65 degree head angle and 160mm travel.... now that has me excited.
  • 2 1
 Seat angle of 68 or less? Do their engineer come streight from the 80's?? Do they know we now stand on the pedals when riding downhill??? Tell me there's a typo, i just can't believev it!
  • 1 0
 Just noticed, most of those seat tube angles are the exact same number as the head tube angle for the corresponding model. Holy typo batman!
  • 1 0
 Yes, the engineers are out of touch. Companies should hire the internexperts who know better (daydreams, thinks of Homer's car design Wink )
  • 2 0
 do you even read comments before typing your supercilious replies to people?
  • 1 0
 The slacker the better for DH didn't you know this?
  • 3 0
 Love the 650b just the right alternative between the 26" and 29" for a trail/xc bike!
  • 2 0
 this thread is crazy... so much anger... over bike wheels... I think i'll go ride.... my 2011 giant reign converted to 650b btw! lol.
  • 3 0
 that slash is soooooooooo clean. it looks the business.
  • 2 0
 Went to the Trek factory today spied one of these and a couple of other sweet things as well!!!
  • 3 0
 Those seat tube angles are looking pretty slack...
  • 1 0
 Typo spotted - in most cases the seat tube angle displays the exact same number as the head tube angle.
  • 2 0
 The seat tube angles seem ridiculously slack. Is that a typo, or is it one of those "actual vs. effective" angle issues?
  • 1 0
 Got to be a typo. They're mostly the same as the HT angle for corresponding models.
  • 2 0
 Stoked to see an even longer TT for these bikes. The XL measures 25.6". Sweeeeeet.
  • 1 0
 As a recent (April) buyer of a 26" remedy this has become an awkward dillema, I plan on selling right when the the 650b is released for sale.
  • 1 0
 try slapping a set of 650 wheels in...I love my giant this way.
  • 2 0
 This wheel size malarkey is all well and good, I just hope they don't stop making good 26" tyres any time soon!
  • 1 0
 Trek's website was recently updated with these new models. Looks like that seat tube angle isn't a typo after all! Slack geo for the world! hoorah
  • 1 0
 What are the actual seat angles for these bikes? They post them as identical to the head angles, which seems too slack and could be a copy/paste error.
  • 4 1
 Worst FD mount ever.
  • 4 3
 That shock, FOCK what are they thinking? I would like to run a coil or any other shock for that matter on that 650 Slash...
  • 5 1
 Any other shock? The Fox DRCV shock is one of the best air shocks out there and its a Trek exclusive. It behaves in a very similar manner to a coil, managing both small bump sensitivity and big hit absorption in a much lighter weight package than a coil, so why would you want to run "any other shock" on it? I can see why running a coil would still be appealing, the comparing aftermarket air shocks really aren't much better if at all, so why spend the money?
  • 2 1
 The 2 I had (slash & remedy) were a let down. My standard CTD is better.
  • 2 0
 Some people have sponsorship obligations, and don't /can't/want to run fox. There are much better rear shock options out there for enduro, Bos kirk, double barrel air, and as one user stated, a coil shock if desired. Some of us would like to tune our high and low speed compression, not just deal with what is offered in 3 selections. It is time for enduro/AM bikes to have a rear shock that can be tuned like those on a downhill bike, after all, enduro bikes are mini DH bikes. You think it would fly with a DH racer if the session came with a CTD type shock? No way!
  • 1 0
 Well of course with a sponsorship obligation and with serious bike tuners, you would choose to run different suspension, but for 95% of the riding community, the DRCV shock is more than enough and still offers a range of adjustable settings. Obviously a shock like the DBair would offer greater tuning capabilities, but that was exactly what it was designed for, where as the Fox was not.
  • 1 0
 Yes, but to my understanding, no other shock fits. I don't think you can put a different shock in if you wanted to, without some modifications.
  • 1 0
 You cannot run a different shock, JKSR.
  • 1 1
 Yep, thats what i thought, which makes it completely suck, forcing the consumer to run the shock they say you must run, thats like dictatorship in shock selection. So then, if you ride for trek, you obviously must ride for fox as well.
  • 2 0
 DRCV Kicks Ass Bro!
  • 1 0
 Oh, in that case, OK!
  • 2 0
 Sorry.....Rene Wildhaber and Brandon Semenuk are riding for Rock Shox....:-) so its possible with a few tricks :-)
  • 4 2
 Of course, just as I order a Solo they release 650b Treks.
  • 2 0
 Maybe it's just me. But I always lean towards buying from a "smaller" brand. Giant, Trek and Spesh make great bikes, but I like riding somthing different than what everyon else is riding.
  • 2 0
 Thing is that we're not a Santa Cruz dealer, but we are a Trek dealer...
  • 1 0
 Haha, I see your predicament!
  • 2 0
 A few years ago it was "oh sure, just as I order an Oryx, Procycle tells us they're dropping the brand and we (the store I worked at) get to be a Rocky Mountain dealer instead..."

although in this case... I've known about Trek going this way for months, and tried telling folks that they'd be announcing by july but did anyone listen... no.....
  • 1 0
 Craigslist Smile
  • 2 2
 650b: "I am the marketing result of a new age in mountain biking rim technology. The future is now, the future is 27.5 inches"

"26: "Lift?"

;-)
  • 9 3
 Considering 650B is how Gary Fisher and Charlie Kelly and Tom Ritchey ORIGINALLY wanted to build production mountain bikes around, or barring that 700C (because good touring rims were already made for both in aluminium and 2" wide offroad tread tires were made also) but couldn't because of a lack of tire supplies in late 1970s California.. we all got stuck with 26" instead.... it wasn't the best choice...it was the only alternative with tires available.

If you look at bicycles from the late 1800s to early 1900s...they all had BIGGER than 26" wheels, and they were all ridden "off road" because there were no paved roads... but for some reason mountain bikes, with all the improvements in technology, have to keep using a kiddie bike wheelsize because people don't want to have to buy new wheels/frames/forks ?!?
  • 1 0
 I was only kidding.
  • 15 3
 It's funny how everyone uses this little anecdote to proclaim that 650B is in the MTB constitution, as if 26 was some sort of huge mistake. Nevermind the 30 years of innovation, development, and growth around the 26" size.... a time period in which it would have been very easy for our founding fathers to sell us on their "golden" wheel size. So why did it take until 2014 for this grand vision to be realized? The truth is that there were simply much bigger fish to fry. Materials engineering, suspension design, brakes, tires, and of course geometry..... all of these are *much* more important than a small increase in wheel size when it comes to performance. As others have pointed out, the claimed benefits of 650B have not even been borne out on the race circuit, yet manufacturers seem eager as heck to re-tool their entire product lines. Generally, racing drives technological innovation, but in this case it seems to have happened the other way around, and that is what people are reacting to!

IMHO, we are only seeing this tremendous and premature push towards 650B because MTB tech has reached a point of diminishing returns. The market is saturated with very expensive and highly capable bikes from dozens and dozens of manufacturers... bikes so capable that most riders will never come near the maximum potential of the equipment that they are on. Marketers desperately need a way to differentiate their product and make gear wonks feel like last year's über gadget is holding them back. 650B is a perfect storm because it necessitates a completely new bike.... no piecemeal upgrades and they can immediately limit the supply of 26" replacement parts.
  • 3 1
 scriz TOTALLY nailed it there. Bang on.
  • 6 3
 Yeah.... not been borne out on the racing circuit apparently a world championship, a world cup title, several Olympic medals, a 3rd in one of the biggest freeride events there is, enduro world tour results, etc... totally meaningless. That the biggest and second biggest bike brands in the world (giant and trek) are behind the wheel apparently is meaningless to folks like you who KNOW so much more.
  • 4 2
 Obviously another poster (scriz) who needs to spend some serious time in the 650b forum on mtbr to better understand how and why this is all happening. Premature push and diminishing returns, hardly.

Right on deeeight, and IIRC all those race results were in 1 years span when 650b is finally just grabbing hold. 2014 bring the tidal wave.
  • 6 0
 Dee, since when? - Jerome just won the mega by 4 mins on a 26in bike and the last enduro world series event as well- what does it prove - nothing. The best rider will always win no matter the wheel size. Estimates are that 650b bike will be 1s per 3 mins quicker than a sixer. Might be true, but there are so many other variables, we'll never know and the difference is meaningless to 99% of the riders who don't have the skill that the pro's have. I have nothing against progress and I like 650b bikes -, they look like sixers too, but you have to ask " Why?" and I think Mr scriz nailed it.
  • 4 3
 Logan Binggeli, 3rd at the rampage, Anne Caroline Chausson 1st at Mega. Logan has also been winning US National DHs on 650B, Dan Atherton's been winning enduros on 650B. (you'd think the auto-correct would know what the word enduro was)

I don't have to ask why. I've been riding 650Bs for FIVE YEARS NOW. I already know they're better than 26ers. I'm getting rid of my 26ers for that reason. Why keep bikes that'll never get ridden again because the ones that are better and more fun to ride are the ones I choose to take every time I go riding.
  • 6 1
 For sure - but the wheel size had nothing to do with it. AC crashed so hard off her 650b in EWS rnd 1 she missed the next 2 races. Barel won the first Enduro WS event, but has come nowhere since due to tyre problems. Dan hasn't really featured in the EWS. Tracy Mosely tried a niner and went back to a sixer for the next 2 races and won by miles again. So - what does this prove? To me, that change is happening for changes sake, rather than because it offers real advantages to most riders.
  • 3 2
 1/ the rampage and most slopestyle for that matter is a glorified popularity contest.

2/ Anne caro could win on a penny farthing, i doubt an extra 11mm or radius made her a champion.

3/ contrary to popular belief Dan Atherton races WES on a 26" wheeled prototype NOT the new 650b force. just like fabien barrel races a 650b proto canyon but attends podiums and press meetings with a current generation 26" strive.

Also reading through this page it would appear US and Canadian folk are a lot quicker to buy into the latest trends, still yet to see a a 650b bike outside a magazine or catalouge here in the uK. but next year they are going to be everywhere, hardly seems consumer driven to me.
  • 2 0
 I have run 650b for the past couple seasons now. They are simply a better ride, much like upgrading your suspension from mid range to top of the line. Once people ride them, they will realize this isn't a big deal. Its just better, and really no downside. The only people who don't like them are people with lousy jobs who don't want to buy new equipment. Almost all of the arguments are regarding not enough difference, and they don't want their old equipment to be obsolete. I actually put aside a very nice set of carbon 26" wheels and kept a basic set of 650b wheels on my bike because of the improvement the 650b had over the top of the line wheels I had in 26".
  • 1 0
 @B45her.... where do you get this 11mm radius crap you keep spewing?! Repeating a lie often to convince others you're right just convinces them you're a moron instead.
  • 3 0
 Dee and Willie - when you actually debate and deal in facts instead of race results and insults, maybe your 650b fetish will make more sense to the morons. Willie - how much for those carbon wheels you wasted?
  • 1 1
 @headshot... we tried facts for months, the morons demanded race results instead... we provide race results and now they want to just ignore those also.
  • 2 0
 Eh? Providing a few cherry-picked "race results" is inconclusive at best...especially when Headshot offered you some great counter-examples. Calling everyone else a moron when they offer facts that disagree with your opinion is the stuff that great trolls are made of.
  • 1 1
 Cherry Picked results now is it? Again.. Olympic Silver Men's and Women's, XC Men's World Championship, XC Men's World Cup Championship, RBR Bronze, US Nationals Pro DH Tour Series is being led commandingly by Logan Binggeli, now apparently ACC's winning the mega on a 650B equipped Ibis somehow doesn't count because she's who she is ?! So what? We just invalidate all these BIG results because you guys don't like them? Okay fine... I'm done debating this with you. Its obviously pointless.
  • 1 0
 the difference in diameter between conventional 26" wheels and 650b is around 22mm, devide that by 2 (radius) and you get around 11mm, its not rocket science.


oops my mistake it's actually 12mm. difference in diameter is 24mm.
  • 1 1
 In terms of rims alone, the difference is 25mm in diameter, in terms of practical inflated tire sizes, the difference is the same. A typical 26 x 2.35 is about 26.5" diameter and a 650B offering in the same width and tread model from the same brand would be 27.5" diameter. And yes... even a 12.7mm difference in radius does make a noticeable difference in performance.
  • 2 1
 how did you measure this "noticeable difference in performance" i'm yet to see a single piece of actual data regarding performance benefits, one frenchman saying they are worth a second over a 3 minute run does not count as data.

for that matter if the greatest mountain biker in the history of the sport can only eek out a 1 second advantage in 3 mins how awesome must you be to find the 0.55ish % performance boost noticeable?
  • 3 0
 Hey b45her, think about this a minute, at the top level of any sport it takes a lot to eek out any advantage, so the fact that 650B is worth 1 sec over 3 minutes for a top level rider mean exactly the opposite of what you want it to. It means a larger advantage for an average rider. You guys are amazing I'm starting to wonder if you actually ride or pretend to on the internet. Go out a ride one already then come in here and comment from a position of knowledge not ignorance. You're like my kids saying they don't like something when I know that haven't even tried it yet.
  • 2 1
 1 sec over 3 mins when a race is 90 mins long means 30 seconds lead on the next guy... or several next guys. That can mean the difference between being on the podium, and not.
  • 1 1
 b45her: where is your data to prove it isn't better? The stopwatch has "proven," or more likely suggested there is a 2-3 second advantage with 650b over a typical run. Doesn't sound like much, but it can be the difference from 1st to 5th or more in a race situation. That's a bigger deal than most other performance enhancements commonly used. In MX, 1 second per lap is 1st to 20th. That amount of change is a huge one when it comes to feel.

Can't feel 12mm? Put on a set of 2.0 tires, go for a ride. Change to 2.35 tires and repeat. Any difference? Before crying foul re: air volume, the 27.5" tire has more volume than the 26" tire too, adding to the gain. More importantly, the BBdrop on a proper 650b frame changes the axle/bb height, which is a huge performance variable. Yes, I do run more sag on my converted 650b Mojo SL to take advantage of this.
  • 3 0
 You are all right to some extent IMO - the thing is that fabled 1 s per 3mins is a total thumb suck and effectively irrelevant - unless you run on a flat smooth course, maybe. Barel believes the smaller wheels accelerate faster and are more "powerful" whatever that means. Bigger wheels and tyres will certainly be heavier. How did weight cease to be a factor when its been the industry selling point for year?. I bet my HD super gravity weighs less than a 650 version which is good for me. Take a line 1 mm wrong and you wack a rock and your 1 s is lost or you crash, as AC did.
  • 1 0
 The heaviest part of the wheel is the tire. With more air volume, you can get away with lighter casings, and less aggressive tread, negating the majority of weight difference. BTW, the rougher the course, the greater the rollover advantage, 29 hasn't been used in DH as the compromise in weight to make a 29" DH wheel/tire compromises maneuverability too much, along with the difficulty in fitting a 29" wheel into an 8" travel package, but 650b works well here.
  • 1 0
 Willie, how does more air volume protect you against tyre damage - eg a sidewall tear? I have seen plenty of niners popping tyres. By the way have you seen the new Mavic 650b and 26 wheel tyre set up for enduro. Plenty aggressive tread and no doubt not the lightest.
  • 1 0
 @Heasdshot: I didn't waste the carbon wheels, I put them on my wife's bike, which doesn't fit 650b (at least in the front- the revelation 150mm doesn't fit 650b. The rear might fit.)

In racing situations, a flat costs more time than 100g extra on the tire. I'm not sure I understand your reasoning on the air volume. More air volume allows less air pressure with the same flat resistance (I was referring to pinch flats- sidewall tears require different protection- which ads weight.) This is pretty much accepted. Additionally, my 650b racing ralphs have the same traction as my 26" nobby nicks, and are almost the same weight. I'd have to look it up again, but the difference didn't seem a big deal when I switched over. Ride feel noted faster acceleration with the 650b, especially over choppy terrain. My 650b Mojo SL is still 26lbs with a dropper post, and no stupid light components. Regular width bars, real saddle etc.
  • 1 0
 Any other questions?
  • 1 2
 To hell with 29, 27.5 and 26 My 6 grand is going into a custom carbon fibre Manson electric guitar and ill get a wicked deal on some carbon 26 Havens this year when they have the garage sale
  • 1 0
 Question: The geometry chart High Geometry vs Low. Is it a shock bolt or fork change how do you switch from high to low?
  • 1 0
 I wonder if they will ever offer their slope frame to the public. It's such a nice frame!
  • 2 0
 now lets see when specialized are rolling out the 650b wheels
  • 3 5
 Dear MTB Industry!
Can you please give some riding lessons instead of presenting new big wheel bikes!
So everyone would be better in riding and nobody would need this weird 29" and 27,5" Bikes which are rolling better over roots...
  • 1 0
 @wimpey very amusing a refreshing change your not Rich Hall by any chance!!!!
  • 1 0
 loving my 2013 slash 8. I can keep up with my xc friends then stun them on the jumps
  • 1 0
 Too much negativity here. I am really looking forward to the slightly larger wheels.
  • 2 2
 waz up with all the bikes?
I thought i had my mind made up TOO many chooses lol
  • 1 0
 Looks to me like a carbon slash!? Finally! Nice work Trek!
  • 2 0
 Nope, Aluminum per the picture caption. I don't understand why no carbon slash? They have a carbon frame for almost every other model.
  • 1 0
 Because the Slash is not a race bike. It's a park bike, or was, but with this new enduro spec one coming out I would imagine a carbon frame is in the works Wink
  • 2 1
 oh snap things, just got real
  • 4 4
 Thank God... I've wanted a Specialized 650 bike for a while now, and until now they said they weren't making one!
  • 4 2
 umm... this is trek.
  • 3 3
 No kidding...
  • 6 3
 I'm not sure if you intended sarcasm in your first comment, but it if so it was a poor attempt.
  • 5 2
 More a comment on market trends, and the inevitability of Specialized's response.
  • 1 2
 Wait for it, just when Specialized does announce one, Trek will start making FSR-style frames for their XC models with horst-links (instead of ABP) and then they'll be no need to buy a specialized at all...
  • 1 1
 ...and the balance is restored.
  • 2 0
 radtacular.
  • 2 1
 Were is the SPZ Enduro 2014 line up??? I want 26"bikes ....
  • 1 0
 is it me or have trek's graphics taken a step into retro?
  • 1 0
 It looks like a ...........
  • 1 0
 The old Slash?
  • 1 0
 waiting for a 170mm 29er.
  • 1 1
 I bet the 29er Remedy goes away after a season or two... Might be time to swoop on one for the sake of collecting.
  • 1 0
 Mister Bond... We've been expecting you.
  • 1 0
 to wimpey "i hate the f'''in eagles man"
  • 1 0
 I have to say, I really like the looks of this bike!
  • 2 0
 Fox 36 please!
  • 1 0
 I concur
  • 1 0
 Umm, where's all the "looks like" comments? Ok...
  • 1 1
 All I gotta say is that I love how much R&D Trek does. Great designers & manufacturers.
  • 1 0
 "Trek is certainly the largest brand to jump in."
? Um, Giant?
  • 1 0
 Trek ought to just make up their mind, 26,27.5,or 29
  • 1 0
 They did. They will phase out 26" like Rocky, Norco, and many other brands are doing. Consumers will choose which of the two sizes they want for their specific terrain. KHS, Intense, and Trek all have 650b DH bikes in the works. Spesh has a rumoured Demo 29er.
  • 1 0
 Everyone's on about wheel size, but lets be honest that bike looks sick!
  • 1 0
 looks like an apollo paradox
  • 1 0
 Anyone know if these will be available as a frame only option?
  • 1 0
 at the end just ride what suit you for your style
  • 1 0
 USA! USA! USA! What, TAIWAN?! TAI-WAN! TAI-WAN! WAN-TAI!
  • 1 0
 Why do the seats on TREKs always suck so bad?
  • 1 0
 i got a session, and its GOOD with 26 inch wheelz!
  • 1 0
 And will be BETTER with 650b.
  • 1 0
 650b Remedy. I'll take one....
  • 1 0
 These will be available the first week in November?
  • 4 5
 Thank Heavens. The debate is dead, except for the people who have delusional disorders.
  • 6 3
 @Willie1, I guess the winners of the Megavalanche are also delusional.
The men's was won on 26"
And the women's was basically won on 26". The Ibis can run both ways.
  • 2 3
 ????????
  • 9 3
 The bike industry keeps telling us that the new wheel is better and faster, but the results don't show it. Meanwhile, I have yet to see a single 650B on any trail, ever. I even rode with 2 fat bikes on a recent group ride in the Santa Cruz mtn's. The debate is dead because the industry decided to stop giving us choices.
  • 2 3
 ????????????
  • 1 1
 If a rider's team and the rider's skill can make up for and beat the 1.5-3 second advantage the larger wheel offers, they will still wing. An extreme example is the Demo costing gwin 5020 seconds that he couldn't make up for, and last year Bingelli using the 3 seconds to place higher than he ever did before. Its a combination of many things.
  • 3 1
 And specialized... until they lose market share anyway...then they'll be pro 650B.
  • 4 2
 Anne Caroline Chausson wins the Mega on a 650B and it actually counts as a win for 26ers does it ? Why do I bother with this place again? Full of morons...
  • 2 1
 Becuase you fit right in :-)? actually it counts as a win for AC, not her bike or wheel size which made not a jot of difference - in fact, for all you know her winning margin may have been greater on a sixer. Just sayin...
  • 2 2
 I think he said it was "basically a 26" bike" which means 650b is basically 26"??????????
  • 3 1
 I call it basically a 26", because the mojo HD( and HDR) were designed around a 26" wheel.
If you reduce the travel, you can add bigger wheels. But let's be honest if I gave ACC my mojo HD (26")to race, there is a good chance she would podium with it.

As for people with lousy jobs that don't want to buy new equipment. I bought new equipment last year. I bought a bike last year that handles well, jumps well, and is lightweight. ALL three are things that 650B won't do as well.

If I want a bike that rolls over crap, doesn't handle great and is heavier, I will just pull out my old Ventana El Chamuco , built up for free ride. I have seen the emporeur's new clothes.

Different choices work for different places and people.
It's a shame that the bike industry saw fit to " Take 26" OEm off the table." To quote Jason Moscheler.
  • 1 1
 Really? Doesn't jump well... and this is based on what exactly? How much experience do you have jumping them to compare? I find they jump quite well. Logan Binggeli found they jumped well enough to double-back flip his during the Redbull Rampage.

Lightweight? Ummm, one of the factors in retiring my 26ers, particularly my full suspension ones, is that my 650B full suspension is LIGHTER.

Handles well? Again, how much experience do you have on 650B bikes to make such a statement ? I'm guessing somewhere between slim and none.
  • 1 0
 C'mon Deeight, we both know that science tells us that all other things being equal: bigger wheels will require a larger turning radius, weigh more and be harder to jump because of the added weight being placed in the front of the bike. But don't take my word for it, go read the only objective review of the 650B wheel on the Internet: I-MTB Bronson vs nomad side by side review.
  • 1 2
 I KNOW these things about 650Bs because I own 650Bs and ride 650Bs... not just because I read it on the internet. That's the difference you're not grasping saidrick... there's a difference between reading about things, and acttually doing things. When you learn that, then you can take part in this discussion....
  • 5 0
 Awesome reasoning there: I guess I also can't say that crime is bad because I haven't done it.

Seriously though, having mtb'ed for the past twenty years, learning to ride on a fully rigid bike and shifting on a deore top mount shifter, I feel pretty qualified to say that bigger wheels don't really help you IF you have a full suspension bike. They will do different things but, don't confuse that with better.

29er took over XC because a lot of XCers were already riding hardtails. 29ers took over sales because the bulk of the market is lower priced hardtails.
Bigger wheels work for you because you're 6'7". But I think that you confuse that with bigger wheels must be better for everyone.

We all want choices, the bike industry is choosing not to give us choices. That's lame.
  • 1 0
 Saidrick, you bought a 26er. You voted with your wallet. Next time we see a new product, and the discussion turns to "its too expensive" remember the number of people who don't vote that result in losing options.

Saidrick. I have been riding since 1992 on real MTBs. I have full suspension ,and the 650b is a noticeable difference. I didn't read about it, or calculate it, I tested it. Its different, and I like it.

Stop thinking black and white. Going from a 2.0 tire to a 2.4 will make the same changes you list above: increased weight, less maneuverable, decreased jumping etc. The reality is the costs are so small, and the increased traction and air volume are so beneficial the tiny cost gets negated.
  • 1 0
 the slash alloy frame weighs 350 grams less than its 26-inch predecessor. there goes your not light idea out the window.
how about this shit for you go ride the bikes, have an open mind pedal the shit out of a few bikes and you will be surprised.
i was in the market for a new bike i pedaled many bikes had an open mind on every bike i got on. i road 27.5 bikes 26 bikes. many dislikes for many bikes. i was considering bikes like the remedy, some how i found out about the slash. i went out and demoed the slash it ripped i could not stop pedaling that bike around. i am a die hard 26' rider. me and my friends said one night that we are not riding anything else but 26" till we cant ride any more. well foot in mouth now i am a slash owner and my bike is on its way. i guess i am 27.5 bound. just don't tell my 26" friends. i am not telling them till the ask to borrow a tube and i am like no i am running tubeless, oh and by the way 27.5 too
  • 1 0
 Bandwagon blues.
  • 1 0
 fckn marketing..
  • 1 0
 should be called 650shit
  • 4 5
 EHRMAHGERD!!
  • 4 7
 Looks like a Session!
  • 3 2
 They all look like sessions.....haha, Treks style is pretty similar for all of their trail through gravity bikes. Frankly I am not a huge trek mountain bike fan, but they are headed in the right direction I think I would at least like to try out one of their new bikes (remedy or slash).

That said I like their bikes more than any other of the big 3 and I think their road bikes are absolutely the best.
  • 5 0
 NO! just no.
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